WEBVTT - Sacagawea: Impressive Teen 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.160 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.800 and there's Chuck and Jerry's over there, and this is 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.239 stuff you should know. And I can't help but feel 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.279 that I'm being subtweeted right now before. I don't know 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.080 what that means. Oh, it's where you talk about somebody 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.360 without directly talking about them. He's kind of maybe talk 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.720 about their behavior, how you disapprove of something that they did, 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.920 but you don't directly say this person did this and 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.800 I don't like it, you know. I one time, I 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.640 don't know all this lingo with the Twitter because I 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.120 was never on it, and I was emailing with Jonathan Colton, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.600 musician Jonathan Colton about coming on movie Crush, and I 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.360 can't remember what I said, but he said something something 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.840 don't at me, and I didn't know what that meant, 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:58.520 and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. I'm 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.840 not sure what I did. I don't know. I apologize 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.120 if I did something wrong, and I think he was 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:09.560 kind of like, who is this idiot? Hodgeman likes this guy? 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.000 And I think, don't I mean, didn't that just mean 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.680 you're tagging someone on Twitter or something. Yeah, but usually 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.960 it means like you're you're telling them that they got 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.960 something wrong, or you disagree with what they said, or 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:22.840 they should be ashamed of what they said. It's usually 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.080 a hostile thing that you're adding somebody or you're you're yeah, 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.119 they don't they're they have made their point and they 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.360 don't want to hear any feedback from you about it. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:34.640 That's why. That's kind of what I took from it. 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.120 And you have to like kind of snap a few 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.919 times when you say it. I'm just really so thankful 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.080 still that I never joined Twitter. Just that's the last 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.319 thing I need. I'm already on Facebook, which is terrible. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.240 I've been enjoying Instagram. I have to say that seems 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.920 like a pretty nice crowd, totally different place. Yeah, but 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:55.920 you know, we're talking about all this because we're talking 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:01.880 about yes we are who truly Yeah, naturally, Who would 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.400 probably a shoe both Instagram and Twitter because she seems 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.680 like a pretty solid human being. She'd be like, don't 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.360 at me, that's right. So um, just to just to 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.919 get this done out of the gate again, I thought 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.440 that her name was pronounced Socca Joweyah. I am not 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.919 like in the minority in the United States at least 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.519 because that's how we were raised to say her name. 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.360 But fortunately we have such things as historians and people 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.320 who listen to Native Americans who have been told over 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.480 the years. Now it's not socca joeya, it's Soaca caauaga. Right, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.960 there's one pronounced pronunciation of it, but that it's not 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.080 just it's gou um. And we've started to kind of 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.000 pronounce her name correctly. You say it way better than me, 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:52.240 So why don't you take it well? I mean, gosh, 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.760 this is the third time now we're on this, I've 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:59.160 seen different things from sicago Away to Sicaga. I think 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.840 in Clark's journal, uh William Clark, that is of Lewis 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:07.480 and Clark fame spelled it s a h k A 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.160 h emphasis on that g A r w e a, 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:17.200 so sicag Away or Cicagoa. But then the Shoshone, which 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.440 is a Native American tribe that uh, well we'll get 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:26.840 to the importance there. Um they say, actually it is 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.760 s a c A j A w e a, and 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:34.600 it means boat pusher, not the Hidatsa language of bird woman. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.720 So there is some debate. Yeah. Um. One thing that 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.640 I did see is that Lewis and Clark um and 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.720 they factoring this because Socaa was the the main guide 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:52.680 and interpreter as they pushed further westward, um she or 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:57.480 they they actually tried to spell every Indian or Native 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.880 American word that they encountered phonetic as best they could. 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.760 They were terrible spellers, even of English words. I mean 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.640 just like barely literate, it seemed like. But they tried 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.680 their best. Yeah it's really bad, um, but they they 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.360 tried to try to spell every every word that they 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:20.200 found phonetically. And I think Sacca go Awea's name appears 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:25.840 seventeen different times in both of their journals, and not 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.680 once do they spell that third syllable guh with a 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.880 J sound with a J. It's always a G. And 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:34.680 they think that it was a hard G, so that 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:39.000 it's not Socca jawiyah. So they said it's definitely gif 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.640 and not Jeff right, which it is definitely gift as 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.320 we all know. Uh So, if you listen to the 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.760 Lewis and Clark episode, was it a two parter? I 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.240 feel like it was. It was not. It was not 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:56.839 new thinking of the evil Kennebil God, it's embarrassing. You 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.680 always bring that up to shame me. I think it's 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.200 shame both of us and Jerry to a certain extent 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.360 as well. She stepped in been like, for God's sakes, 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:11.360 what are you doing? Totally consolidate man. So a great 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.880 episode though. I know in that episode we talked a 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.599 bit obviously about Chicago Way and Ken Burns in his 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:23.400 great documentary about the Core of Discovery. But she was born, 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.200 she had a she know, she lived a short life, 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.000 and there is a little controversy on how long she 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.200 did live, which we'll get to at the end. But 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.920 she was born in either seventeen or eighty nine as 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:39.920 a member of the lim Limy is what I'm gonna say, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.440 Eli m h I band of the Shoshone tribe, which 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.280 we spoke about a minute ago. Is this Shoshone or Shoshoni? 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.760 Shoshoni is shy That's what I've always heard, But then 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.480 again I always heard it was ska Joya too. I 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:58.000 believe she grew up though in a very imagined, lovely, 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.120 lovely part of the country and what is Idaho in 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.960 the Salmon River region. Yes, um so she was actually 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:11.520 a member of a specific band of the Lemhi Shoshoni. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.480 Um the salmon eaters is what they were called. Um. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.000 And she she grew up in that that part of Idaho. 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.520 I guess it was around them the bitter Root mountains 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.080 near the Continental divide, and the bitter Roots are part 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:30.520 of the Rockies. But yeah, it just sounds absolutely gorgeous. Um. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.720 The Shoshoni tribe was enemies to the Hidatsa, who you 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.920 mentioned earlier. And the reason that they say that saka 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:43.480 Awa means bird woman is because Skawa became an involuntary 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.640 member of the Hidaza tribe when she was around twelve 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.720 years old. Um I didn't get as she was out 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.680 on a buffalo hunt, or if the Hidatza happened to 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.640 be out on a buffalo hunt and came across her, 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:59.280 did you understand that. I'm not sure, Um. I kind 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.000 of just in my mind and thought that they were out. 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.040 But I guess it doesn't really matter, because either way, 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:09.360 she was kidnapped and settled with them near what is 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.520 now Bismarck, North Dakota, and here's where her life took 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.480 a or I guess that event actually took her life 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.400 in a very different direction. Uh, and that that was 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.960 a trading center, an international trading center, so people from 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.240 all over the world would kind of stop through there 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:32.360 to trade their weares. And she was essentially uh, I mean, 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.760 it's hard to not say kidnapped again. Um, a fringe 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:41.480 Canadian fur trader, Toussaint Charbonneau beautiful took her as property. 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.400 He called her his wife. But we can't you know, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.080 now through today's lens, we've got a lot better about 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.240 not glossing over that stuff. She was property to him. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.560 She was a teenager, I think, like sixteen or seventeen 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.280 even I think she was, oh was she? Uh? And 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.360 she was about two decades younger than him. And there's 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.720 no other way to say it other than she was property. 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.000 And part of being property was that she was raped 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.560 by Charbonneau. Yeah, like there's there's um, there's no way 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.520 you can put it that that, Like she didn't have 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.680 any say in the matter of whether they had sex, 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.120 so like it's just that's rape, no matter what. Um. 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.080 But yeah, over the over the years, like she's always 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.800 been referred to as one of his wives because I 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.000 guess Americans didn't want to kind of confront that stuff, 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:37.240 you know, right, So she ends up um living among 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:43.800 the Haidatsa and as Um Charbonneau's wife slash property Um. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:48.439 Because Charbonneau being a fur trader and the Hadatsa Um 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.640 settlement that they lived at, Um being this kind of 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:56.319 international trading post. He had kind of adopted, like the 0:08:56.400 --> 0:09:00.520 hadats A way of living himself. Um. He had just 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.640 being a fur trader, he had to be able to 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.319 handle himself out in the elements. UM. So I think 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.480 it kind of it was his speed from what I gathered. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.760 For the rest of his life, he just basically lived 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:16.240 in a style similar to Native Americans. UM. So she 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:21.040 aside from being away from her native tribe, she lived, 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:27.600 you know, probably fairly in a fairly cosmopolitan manner compared 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.040 to how she would have had she never been kidnapped 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.480 from the lem He band of Shoshonees Um. Which is 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.480 kind of sad. But there's one thing that should be said. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:45.240 There's there's documentary opinion that she was Um. She was 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.920 not unhappy living on this kind of um, this border 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:55.280 land between the two cultures. Like she she seemed to 0:09:55.400 --> 0:10:01.520 feel somewhat comfortable um living among you know, the colonizer's 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.319 way of life. UM. On the frontier just as much 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.920 as she did living among the Shoshoni. Yeah, and we 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.120 should also point out that a lot of this is 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.760 very little is recorded, a lot of speculative um, because 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.480 you know, there's remarkable well, I guess not remarkable because 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.840 it was eighteen o three, but um, very little actual 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.600 recorded information about her life. But it's remarkable how much 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.800 there is for the well typical teenage Native American girl 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.920 at the time. Um. Like the fact that there's anything 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:36.959 recorded about her, says, well, it is a kind of 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.480 a huge testimony to her and her personality. No, absolutely, Um. 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:46.760 So eighteen o three is when Charbonneau takes control of 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:52.120 her life. Eighteen o three is also when Thomas Jefferson said, Hey, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:57.800 we got this uh big tract of land, really sweet 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.240 deal called the Louisiana Purchase, eight hundred and twenty eight 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:06.120 thousand square miles of land stretching from the Canadian border 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.640 to the Gulf of Mexico, from the Mississippi to Colorado. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.320 And we need to go see what's out there because 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.760 white people have never explored this territory. Um, I want 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.920 to find a Northwest passage, which was eventually found. They 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.599 were looking in the wrong place, but Um, that's what 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.040 they were sort of after, but they were after more. 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.000 Jefferson really wanted to know what was out there the landscape. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.640 He wanted maps, He wanted to know about the Native 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.760 American tribes. He wanted to know about the plant life 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.679 and the animal life, and just like, go Merryweather Lewis 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.240 out there and record everything you can. Yeah, Mery Meryweather 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:49.920 Lewis was Jefferson's personal secretary, and Lewis um selected um 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.800 what was Clark's first name, Josh Billy William William Clark 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.719 Billy Clark um As, who had been his captain in 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.719 UM the Army, as the leader of the expedition. He 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.160 found him to be an able leader and said, hey, 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.360 you want to come leave this super high prestige UM 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.800 expedition for the president that the entire nation is going 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.319 to be watching. And Clark said, sure, let's do it. 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.959 So Lewis and Clark set out on this expedition and 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.480 they actually traveled I think six miles before they ended 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:29.360 up um in at that head atsa settlement, Um, which 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.280 is about where they really started to hit the frontier. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.199 From what I understand, all right, that sounds like a 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.120 great turning point to take a break. So we'll be 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.800 back right after this and pick up with the meeting 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:50.080 of Loos and Clark and SARKA. Stuff you should know, Nash, 0:12:50.679 --> 0:13:10.400 stuff you should know. Okay, Chuck. So we've reached what 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.400 is now today Bismarck, North Dakota at the South Dakota, 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.559 South Dakota. Are you sure? I think so? No, it's 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:23.240 it's yeah, it's Bismarck, North Dakota. Are there two? I 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.240 was gonna say it almost literally doesn't matter. We're gonna 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.400 get crushed for this. It is. No, it's definitely Bismarck, 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.440 North Dakota. Okay, then there that was a misprint. Then 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.400 in the I'll tell you what. Get this. I've got 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.520 this machine called the compute Tour. Are you actually gonna 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:42.959 look it up? Yeah, I'm gonna look it up. I'm 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.959 gonna do a favor for the people of Bismarck for 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.679 once North Dakota. I think it's North Dakota. It is. 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.240 That's weird because I think this is from Austaff Works. 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:57.959 I got South Dakota written in there. All right, we'll 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.040 let to send an email. I'm not gonna I'm gonna 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:05.160 add them yeah, that, don't you know, that's the tagline 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.199 of how stuff works. Don't add us. That's right. So 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.000 apologies to all the people in the both Dakotas, all 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.160 three Dakotas. We met nothing by it, and we're gonna 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:16.640 do a live show there one day to make up 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:21.120 for it. Are we sure? Why not? Um, I'll tell 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:27.880 you later. Okay, all right, where are we? It's November 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.720 two four when they finally land and they meet up 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.680 with Chicago, who is six months pregnant at this point, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.200 and Charbonneau is get the impression that he's a bit 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:45.360 of a not a grifter may maybe, but sort of 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:52.400 an opportunist. Yeah, yeah, I think so for sure. I mean, 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.680 like he's a fur trader for Pete's sake, Like you 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.800 gotta be you gotta be a little like that. That 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.800 includes not just survival in the woods and killing animals, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.840 but also having to you know, get the highest price 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.600 you can for your pelts. So I'm guessing there's a 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.480 bit of used car salesman to Charbonneau. For sure. He 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.160 was not exactly. He was not well liked by Lewis 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.920 and Clark. I don't know that he was heated or despised. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.640 But I get the impression from reading historians interpretations of 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.000 their their journal entries about Sharbonneau was that he was 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:35.720 kind of a cross between um, Chris Farley, okay, and Gallam. 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:43.280 Maybe I can't wait to see that photoshop goodness, yea, 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:44.800 who's going to take care of that for us? So 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.520 just this idea that this guy was not competent necessarily 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.080 and was maybe a little bit evil. Um. And that's that's, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.240 you know, all you need to know about Scharbonneau. I 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.880 also get the impression, Chuck, that there was a there 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.840 was a you know, we'll talk about later, but there 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:04.600 was Kaga was plucked from historic obscurity and really kind 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.800 of raised up on this pedestal. And I think rightly so. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.080 But there was a sport that developed alongside of that 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.160 where you could very easily raise up by contrasting her 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:21.240 to her good for nothing slave holdings quote husband, um, 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.440 and showing how just just terrible he was at everything. 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:27.760 It made her look all of them all the much better. 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.480 So I think there's a sport to it. There's a 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:34.000 kind of a long history of putting down Charbonneau. Um. 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.600 But I think that it's kind of rooted in fact, 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.320 from what I understand. Yeah, So at any rate, he 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.400 comes along and he's like, hey, you guys really need 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.320 to bring me along. And uh, and my wife slash 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.000 property here. Um, I speak Datza and French, and they're like, 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.720 we don't really need that, but I see that Chicago 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.440 Way speaks Shoshone, and we really need to learn that 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:00.720 because at a certain point gonna need to talk to 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.880 them to get some horses. Uh. And since we can't 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.440 hire a woman because it's three, we have to actually 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.840 hire the husband to get her to come along. I 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.760 guess you both can come. Yeah. So like we got 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:17.960 to explain why um Chicago Way being Shoshone was really important, 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.760 and it was, like you said, those horses somehow, I'm 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.119 not exactly sure how they already knew this, because these 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.440 are the first Americans to chart a course westward. But 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.560 they knew that the um the Missouri River and the 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:38.560 Columbia River was um was separated by mountains, the Rocky Mountains, 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:42.280 the bitter Root Mountains to be specific, and that since 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.720 they were taking to the river, they were going to 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.280 need to get from one river to the other, and 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.560 that the Shoshoni Indians happened to live exactly where they 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.000 needed um or where they needed to pass through, where 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.879 they needed the most help, where they needed horses, and 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.320 so having a Shoshone along to help broker a deal 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:07.520 would be incredibly useful, so useful in fact, that the 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.440 arrangement was going to be that when they finally met 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.600 up with the Shoshoni tribe in this area where they 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:19.200 needed the horses the most, um Sicagowa was going to 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.160 speak to the Shoshones and then she was going to translate, 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:27.600 with the Shoshones said into Hadazza to um Charbonneau. Charbonneau 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.159 was going to translate from um Hadatza into French for 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.000 a French speaking member of the Court Discovery, who would 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.920 then translate from French into English for Lewis and Clark. 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.600 That's how he didn't No, he spoke Hadazza in French. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.240 So an addition to no, he so he did. He 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.040 did play a role that was important. He was going 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:53.920 to translate from Datsa into French. Um. It would have 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:58.600 been way better if he had spoken English. But yeah, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.400 it just meant another person in the chain. Everything came 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:07.679 out purple Monkey dishwatcher at the end. So uh, one 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.080 thing we failed to mention, I think, which is just remarkable, 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.600 is that um, a few a couple of months before 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:19.760 they leave together. Uh, Chicago has her son, Jean Baptiste UM, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.960 known as Baptiste and so. And I know we talked 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.560 about this in Lewis and Clark, but I think I 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.440 didn't have a kid at the time. It's just astounding 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:29.920 to me now that I've had a two month old 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.720 baby two to take and like keeping that baby alive 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.240 and all the comforts of you know, modern day America. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.639 To take a baby like that on a voyage like 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:45.800 this is astounding. Yeah. Yeah, it's really remarkable. Yeah. And 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:47.920 I mean, like, if you look at all of the 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.840 memorials to Chicago Aya, UM, I don't think there's one 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.240 out there that doesn't also show Baptiste as well of 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.240 not um. Not just because he was an adopted honorary 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:05.240 member of the Court of Discovery basically a mascot sure um, 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.720 but also because it just goes to point out just 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:15.440 how astounding what his mom did UM was. You know. 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:20.320 I think when when Chicago was put on the the 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.959 dollar coin in the United States in two thousand, UM, 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.960 Hillary Clinton famously referred to her as the original working mom. Wow, 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.520 that's that's pretty cool designation. I thought so too. So yeah, 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.320 I think it's great to to just that that she's 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.920 remembered as you know, doing all this with a baby 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:43.200 strap to her back the whole time. Right. So, um, 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.159 that's their plan they plan to get there, send her 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.240 out to talk to the Shoshoni tribe to get these horses. 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:52.840 But which was a good plan, but it was even 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.520 way better. It worked out like almost like it had 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.720 been written in a movie script or something, because I 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.919 think it is. Lewis shows up first and has contacts 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.920 with an older woman of the tribe, and then about 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.520 sixty Shoshone on horseback ride up and they're like, you 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.679 seem like a decent guy, you're friendly, let's all make 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.360 this workout. Then Park's group shows up about a day 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:22.280 later with Chicago Way and they're like, oh my god, 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.320 it's you. You were the one that was kidnapped and 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.800 taken away so many years ago. And then Chief kama 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:34.560 Wait rides up and it's Icago Way's brother. Yeah. So 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.520 not only did they get to have this reunion, but um, 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:42.600 Lewis and Clark are like, yes, we're going to Yeah, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.639 the chief is her brother, Like this is perfect. But 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:48.600 you know what that stuck out to me as Chuck, 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:53.440 Um that meant that Chicago way, it probably would have 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.480 met Lewis and Clark even if she had never been kidnapped. 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.280 Uh yeah, maybe didn't that really crazy to think like 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.120 that one way or another she was going to probably 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.800 meet Lewis and Clark even even with her life diverging 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:12.600 that radically from its you know, original projected path. Yeah, 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.879 And what it really did was um, I mean, she 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.240 was already proving to be useful in that she could 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.919 identify berries and things that you could eat and plants 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:24.760 that you could use as medicine, and kind of acted 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.119 as the um the navigator in a lot of cases 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:29.800 like no, we need to go this way. I've been 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:31.520 here before, this is where I grew up. Yeah, there's 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.640 a huge, huge rock called Beaverhead Rock that she um 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.520 famously recognized that you can go visit and stand in 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.080 the place basically where she showed Lewis and Clark like, look, 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.120 my my people are going to be right around here. 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.439 I recognize this place. Yeah, so they've already got all 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.720 this respect for up until that point. And then she 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.920 has such an end with the Shoshone. Like you said, 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:55.720 they get I'm sure a really good deal on the horses. 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.760 And not only that, but they get help. They get 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.520 like they kind of partner up with them to help 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:01.520 them along, which is a really big deal. Yeah, because 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.480 Lewis and Clark's expedition had UM somewhere in the neighborhood 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:09.920 of forty people, involved huge boats, several huge boats, lots 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.080 of equipment, lots of instruments. And some people say, well, 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:14.879 like if they needed horses a bad way and they 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.840 bring the horses because they traveled by water, they really 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.720 needed horses really really badly. But just for this one 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.240 specific part of the trip in between the Missouri and 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.560 the Columbia River, Thomas Jefferson very famous famously called a 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.760 dilly of a pickle that they had run into. UM. 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.080 But the fact that they were able to get the 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:40.240 horses from the shown um, it just basically checked this 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:45.159 enormous box that the whole expedition UM was predicated on. 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:48.040 They just couldn't They could not have completed their mission 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.080 without this and UM, so I could go away and 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:55.520 basically brokered that made sure that box got checked. And 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:57.439 there's one other thing that stands out about her too, 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:01.520 that that gets overlooked us on a few places. Um, 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.439 Charbonneau had another wife who was Shoshone, and if they 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.600 needed a Shoshoni speaker, who was who was? You know 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:12.200 with Sharbonneau who came with Sharbonneau. Um, they could have 0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:15.240 very easily gone with Otter woman the other the other 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:20.399 Um I guess victim of Charbonneau. Um, And they didn't. 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:24.159 They went with Sacagea, who knowing full well that she 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.000 came with an infant, now like there was going to 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:29.679 be an infant, even though with Otter Woman there wouldn't 0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:32.720 have been so clearly. Chicago way is like putting out 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:36.160 the right kind of vibes. That's saying like, I'm extraordinarily competent. 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.280 You should probably pick me, even though if you pick me, 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:42.159 I'm going to be bringing a newborn baby along on 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:46.240 this frontier trek. Um. I think that says a lot 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:52.639 about the kind of UM I guess, charisma or competence 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.960 or whatever. She was putting out that that that Lewis 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.800 and Clark were like, yes, I think she would be 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:01.159 the better of the two. Yeah, because you don't want 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:03.680 a two month old baby along. No, But if you're 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:06.280