1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's over there, and this is 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: stuff you should know. And I can't help but feel 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: that I'm being subtweeted right now before. I don't know 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: what that means. Oh, it's where you talk about somebody 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: without directly talking about them. He's kind of maybe talk 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: about their behavior, how you disapprove of something that they did, 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: but you don't directly say this person did this and 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: I don't like it, you know. I one time, I 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: don't know all this lingo with the Twitter because I 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: was never on it, and I was emailing with Jonathan Colton, 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: musician Jonathan Colton about coming on movie Crush, and I 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: can't remember what I said, but he said something something 15 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: don't at me, and I didn't know what that meant, 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. I'm 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: not sure what I did. I don't know. I apologize 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: if I did something wrong, and I think he was 19 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: kind of like, who is this idiot? Hodgeman likes this guy? 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: And I think, don't I mean, didn't that just mean 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: you're tagging someone on Twitter or something. Yeah, but usually 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: it means like you're you're telling them that they got 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: something wrong, or you disagree with what they said, or 24 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: they should be ashamed of what they said. It's usually 25 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: a hostile thing that you're adding somebody or you're you're yeah, 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: they don't they're they have made their point and they 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: don't want to hear any feedback from you about it. 28 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: That's why. That's kind of what I took from it. 29 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: And you have to like kind of snap a few 30 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 1: times when you say it. I'm just really so thankful 31 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: still that I never joined Twitter. Just that's the last 32 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: thing I need. I'm already on Facebook, which is terrible. 33 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: I've been enjoying Instagram. I have to say that seems 34 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: like a pretty nice crowd, totally different place. Yeah, but 35 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about all this because we're talking 36 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: about yes we are who truly Yeah, naturally, Who would 37 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: probably a shoe both Instagram and Twitter because she seems 38 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: like a pretty solid human being. She'd be like, don't 39 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: at me, that's right. So um, just to just to 40 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: get this done out of the gate again, I thought 41 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: that her name was pronounced Socca Joweyah. I am not 42 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: like in the minority in the United States at least 43 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: because that's how we were raised to say her name. 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: But fortunately we have such things as historians and people 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: who listen to Native Americans who have been told over 46 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: the years. Now it's not socca joeya, it's Soaca caauaga. Right, 47 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: there's one pronounced pronunciation of it, but that it's not 48 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: just it's gou um. And we've started to kind of 49 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: pronounce her name correctly. You say it way better than me, 50 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: So why don't you take it well? I mean, gosh, 51 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: this is the third time now we're on this, I've 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: seen different things from sicago Away to Sicaga. I think 53 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: in Clark's journal, uh William Clark, that is of Lewis 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: and Clark fame spelled it s a h k A 55 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: h emphasis on that g A r w e a, 56 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: so sicag Away or Cicagoa. But then the Shoshone, which 57 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: is a Native American tribe that uh, well we'll get 58 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: to the importance there. Um they say, actually it is 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: s a c A j A w e a, and 60 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: it means boat pusher, not the Hidatsa language of bird woman. 61 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: So there is some debate. Yeah. Um. One thing that 62 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: I did see is that Lewis and Clark um and 63 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: they factoring this because Socaa was the the main guide 64 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: and interpreter as they pushed further westward, um she or 65 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: they they actually tried to spell every Indian or Native 66 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: American word that they encountered phonetic as best they could. 67 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: They were terrible spellers, even of English words. I mean 68 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: just like barely literate, it seemed like. But they tried 69 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: their best. Yeah it's really bad, um, but they they 70 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: tried to try to spell every every word that they 71 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: found phonetically. And I think Sacca go Awea's name appears 72 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: seventeen different times in both of their journals, and not 73 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: once do they spell that third syllable guh with a 74 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: J sound with a J. It's always a G. And 75 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: they think that it was a hard G, so that 76 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: it's not Socca jawiyah. So they said it's definitely gif 77 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: and not Jeff right, which it is definitely gift as 78 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: we all know. Uh So, if you listen to the 79 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark episode, was it a two parter? I 80 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: feel like it was. It was not. It was not 81 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: new thinking of the evil Kennebil God, it's embarrassing. You 82 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: always bring that up to shame me. I think it's 83 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: shame both of us and Jerry to a certain extent 84 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: as well. She stepped in been like, for God's sakes, 85 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: what are you doing? Totally consolidate man. So a great 86 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: episode though. I know in that episode we talked a 87 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: bit obviously about Chicago Way and Ken Burns in his 88 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: great documentary about the Core of Discovery. But she was born, 89 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: she had a she know, she lived a short life, 90 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: and there is a little controversy on how long she 91 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: did live, which we'll get to at the end. But 92 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: she was born in either seventeen or eighty nine as 93 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: a member of the lim Limy is what I'm gonna say, 94 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: Eli m h I band of the Shoshone tribe, which 95 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: we spoke about a minute ago. Is this Shoshone or Shoshoni? 96 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: Shoshoni is shy That's what I've always heard, But then 97 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: again I always heard it was ska Joya too. I 98 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: believe she grew up though in a very imagined, lovely, 99 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: lovely part of the country and what is Idaho in 100 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: the Salmon River region. Yes, um so she was actually 101 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: a member of a specific band of the Lemhi Shoshoni. 102 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: Um the salmon eaters is what they were called. Um. 103 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: And she she grew up in that that part of Idaho. 104 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: I guess it was around them the bitter Root mountains 105 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: near the Continental divide, and the bitter Roots are part 106 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: of the Rockies. But yeah, it just sounds absolutely gorgeous. Um. 107 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: The Shoshoni tribe was enemies to the Hidatsa, who you 108 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. And the reason that they say that saka 109 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: Awa means bird woman is because Skawa became an involuntary 110 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: member of the Hidaza tribe when she was around twelve 111 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: years old. Um I didn't get as she was out 112 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: on a buffalo hunt, or if the Hidatza happened to 113 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: be out on a buffalo hunt and came across her, 114 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: did you understand that. I'm not sure, Um. I kind 115 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: of just in my mind and thought that they were out. 116 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: But I guess it doesn't really matter, because either way, 117 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: she was kidnapped and settled with them near what is 118 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: now Bismarck, North Dakota, and here's where her life took 119 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: a or I guess that event actually took her life 120 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: in a very different direction. Uh, and that that was 121 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: a trading center, an international trading center, so people from 122 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: all over the world would kind of stop through there 123 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: to trade their weares. And she was essentially uh, I mean, 124 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: it's hard to not say kidnapped again. Um, a fringe 125 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: Canadian fur trader, Toussaint Charbonneau beautiful took her as property. 126 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: He called her his wife. But we can't you know, 127 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: now through today's lens, we've got a lot better about 128 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: not glossing over that stuff. She was property to him. 129 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: She was a teenager, I think, like sixteen or seventeen 130 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: even I think she was, oh was she? Uh? And 131 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: she was about two decades younger than him. And there's 132 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: no other way to say it other than she was property. 133 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: And part of being property was that she was raped 134 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: by Charbonneau. Yeah, like there's there's um, there's no way 135 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: you can put it that that, Like she didn't have 136 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: any say in the matter of whether they had sex, 137 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: so like it's just that's rape, no matter what. Um. 138 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, over the over the years, like she's always 139 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: been referred to as one of his wives because I 140 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: guess Americans didn't want to kind of confront that stuff, 141 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, right, So she ends up um living among 142 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: the Haidatsa and as Um Charbonneau's wife slash property Um. 143 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: Because Charbonneau being a fur trader and the Hadatsa Um 144 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: settlement that they lived at, Um being this kind of 145 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: international trading post. He had kind of adopted, like the 146 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: hadats A way of living himself. Um. He had just 147 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: being a fur trader, he had to be able to 148 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: handle himself out in the elements. UM. So I think 149 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: it kind of it was his speed from what I gathered. 150 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: For the rest of his life, he just basically lived 151 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: in a style similar to Native Americans. UM. So she 152 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: aside from being away from her native tribe, she lived, 153 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, probably fairly in a fairly cosmopolitan manner compared 154 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: to how she would have had she never been kidnapped 155 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: from the lem He band of Shoshonees Um. Which is 156 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: kind of sad. But there's one thing that should be said. 157 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: There's there's documentary opinion that she was Um. She was 158 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: not unhappy living on this kind of um, this border 159 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: land between the two cultures. Like she she seemed to 160 00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: feel somewhat comfortable um living among you know, the colonizer's 161 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: way of life. UM. On the frontier just as much 162 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: as she did living among the Shoshoni. Yeah, and we 163 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: should also point out that a lot of this is 164 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: very little is recorded, a lot of speculative um, because 165 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's remarkable well, I guess not remarkable because 166 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: it was eighteen o three, but um, very little actual 167 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: recorded information about her life. But it's remarkable how much 168 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: there is for the well typical teenage Native American girl 169 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: at the time. Um. Like the fact that there's anything 170 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: recorded about her, says, well, it is a kind of 171 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: a huge testimony to her and her personality. No, absolutely, Um. 172 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: So eighteen o three is when Charbonneau takes control of 173 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: her life. Eighteen o three is also when Thomas Jefferson said, Hey, 174 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: we got this uh big tract of land, really sweet 175 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: deal called the Louisiana Purchase, eight hundred and twenty eight 176 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: thousand square miles of land stretching from the Canadian border 177 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: to the Gulf of Mexico, from the Mississippi to Colorado. 178 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: And we need to go see what's out there because 179 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: white people have never explored this territory. Um, I want 180 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: to find a Northwest passage, which was eventually found. They 181 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 1: were looking in the wrong place, but Um, that's what 182 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: they were sort of after, but they were after more. 183 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: Jefferson really wanted to know what was out there the landscape. 184 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: He wanted maps, He wanted to know about the Native 185 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: American tribes. He wanted to know about the plant life 186 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: and the animal life, and just like, go Merryweather Lewis 187 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: out there and record everything you can. Yeah, Mery Meryweather 188 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: Lewis was Jefferson's personal secretary, and Lewis um selected um 189 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: what was Clark's first name, Josh Billy William William Clark 190 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: Billy Clark um As, who had been his captain in 191 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 1: UM the Army, as the leader of the expedition. He 192 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: found him to be an able leader and said, hey, 193 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: you want to come leave this super high prestige UM 194 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: expedition for the president that the entire nation is going 195 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: to be watching. And Clark said, sure, let's do it. 196 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: So Lewis and Clark set out on this expedition and 197 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: they actually traveled I think six miles before they ended 198 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: up um in at that head atsa settlement, Um, which 199 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: is about where they really started to hit the frontier. 200 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: From what I understand, all right, that sounds like a 201 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: great turning point to take a break. So we'll be 202 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: back right after this and pick up with the meeting 203 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: of Loos and Clark and SARKA. Stuff you should know, Nash, 204 00:12:50,679 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: stuff you should know. Okay, Chuck. So we've reached what 205 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: is now today Bismarck, North Dakota at the South Dakota, 206 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: South Dakota. Are you sure? I think so? No, it's 207 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's Bismarck, North Dakota. Are there two? I 208 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: was gonna say it almost literally doesn't matter. We're gonna 209 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: get crushed for this. It is. No, it's definitely Bismarck, 210 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: North Dakota. Okay, then there that was a misprint. Then 211 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: in the I'll tell you what. Get this. I've got 212 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: this machine called the compute Tour. Are you actually gonna 213 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: look it up? Yeah, I'm gonna look it up. I'm 214 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: gonna do a favor for the people of Bismarck for 215 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: once North Dakota. I think it's North Dakota. It is. 216 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: That's weird because I think this is from Austaff Works. 217 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: I got South Dakota written in there. All right, we'll 218 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: let to send an email. I'm not gonna I'm gonna 219 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: add them yeah, that, don't you know, that's the tagline 220 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: of how stuff works. Don't add us. That's right. So 221 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: apologies to all the people in the both Dakotas, all 222 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: three Dakotas. We met nothing by it, and we're gonna 223 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: do a live show there one day to make up 224 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: for it. Are we sure? Why not? Um, I'll tell 225 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: you later. Okay, all right, where are we? It's November 226 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: two four when they finally land and they meet up 227 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: with Chicago, who is six months pregnant at this point, 228 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: and Charbonneau is get the impression that he's a bit 229 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: of a not a grifter may maybe, but sort of 230 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: an opportunist. Yeah, yeah, I think so for sure. I mean, 231 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: like he's a fur trader for Pete's sake, Like you 232 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: gotta be you gotta be a little like that. That 233 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: includes not just survival in the woods and killing animals, 234 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: but also having to you know, get the highest price 235 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: you can for your pelts. So I'm guessing there's a 236 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: bit of used car salesman to Charbonneau. For sure. He 237 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: was not exactly. He was not well liked by Lewis 238 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: and Clark. I don't know that he was heated or despised. 239 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: But I get the impression from reading historians interpretations of 240 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: their their journal entries about Sharbonneau was that he was 241 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: kind of a cross between um, Chris Farley, okay, and Gallam. 242 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: Maybe I can't wait to see that photoshop goodness, yea, 243 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: who's going to take care of that for us? So 244 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: just this idea that this guy was not competent necessarily 245 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: and was maybe a little bit evil. Um. And that's that's, 246 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, all you need to know about Scharbonneau. I 247 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: also get the impression, Chuck, that there was a there 248 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: was a you know, we'll talk about later, but there 249 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: was Kaga was plucked from historic obscurity and really kind 250 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: of raised up on this pedestal. And I think rightly so. 251 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: But there was a sport that developed alongside of that 252 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: where you could very easily raise up by contrasting her 253 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: to her good for nothing slave holdings quote husband, um, 254 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: and showing how just just terrible he was at everything. 255 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: It made her look all of them all the much better. 256 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: So I think there's a sport to it. There's a 257 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: kind of a long history of putting down Charbonneau. Um. 258 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: But I think that it's kind of rooted in fact, 259 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: from what I understand. Yeah, So at any rate, he 260 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: comes along and he's like, hey, you guys really need 261 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: to bring me along. And uh, and my wife slash 262 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: property here. Um, I speak Datza and French, and they're like, 263 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: we don't really need that, but I see that Chicago 264 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: Way speaks Shoshone, and we really need to learn that 265 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: because at a certain point gonna need to talk to 266 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: them to get some horses. Uh. And since we can't 267 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: hire a woman because it's three, we have to actually 268 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: hire the husband to get her to come along. I 269 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: guess you both can come. Yeah. So like we got 270 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: to explain why um Chicago Way being Shoshone was really important, 271 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: and it was, like you said, those horses somehow, I'm 272 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: not exactly sure how they already knew this, because these 273 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: are the first Americans to chart a course westward. But 274 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: they knew that the um the Missouri River and the 275 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: Columbia River was um was separated by mountains, the Rocky Mountains, 276 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: the bitter Root Mountains to be specific, and that since 277 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: they were taking to the river, they were going to 278 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: need to get from one river to the other, and 279 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: that the Shoshoni Indians happened to live exactly where they 280 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: needed um or where they needed to pass through, where 281 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: they needed the most help, where they needed horses, and 282 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: so having a Shoshone along to help broker a deal 283 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: would be incredibly useful, so useful in fact, that the 284 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: arrangement was going to be that when they finally met 285 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: up with the Shoshoni tribe in this area where they 286 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: needed the horses the most, um Sicagowa was going to 287 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: speak to the Shoshones and then she was going to translate, 288 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: with the Shoshones said into Hadazza to um Charbonneau. Charbonneau 289 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: was going to translate from um Hadatza into French for 290 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: a French speaking member of the Court Discovery, who would 291 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: then translate from French into English for Lewis and Clark. 292 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: That's how he didn't No, he spoke Hadazza in French. 293 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: So an addition to no, he so he did. He 294 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: did play a role that was important. He was going 295 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: to translate from Datsa into French. Um. It would have 296 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: been way better if he had spoken English. But yeah, 297 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: it just meant another person in the chain. Everything came 298 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: out purple Monkey dishwatcher at the end. So uh, one 299 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: thing we failed to mention, I think, which is just remarkable, 300 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: is that um, a few a couple of months before 301 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: they leave together. Uh, Chicago has her son, Jean Baptiste UM, 302 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: known as Baptiste and so. And I know we talked 303 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: about this in Lewis and Clark, but I think I 304 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: didn't have a kid at the time. It's just astounding 305 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: to me now that I've had a two month old 306 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: baby two to take and like keeping that baby alive 307 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: and all the comforts of you know, modern day America. 308 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: To take a baby like that on a voyage like 309 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: this is astounding. Yeah. Yeah, it's really remarkable. Yeah. And 310 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: I mean, like, if you look at all of the 311 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: memorials to Chicago Aya, UM, I don't think there's one 312 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: out there that doesn't also show Baptiste as well of 313 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: not um. Not just because he was an adopted honorary 314 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: member of the Court of Discovery basically a mascot sure um, 315 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: but also because it just goes to point out just 316 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: how astounding what his mom did UM was. You know. 317 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: I think when when Chicago was put on the the 318 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: dollar coin in the United States in two thousand, UM, 319 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton famously referred to her as the original working mom. Wow, 320 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty cool designation. I thought so too. So yeah, 321 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: I think it's great to to just that that she's 322 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: remembered as you know, doing all this with a baby 323 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: strap to her back the whole time. Right. So, um, 324 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: that's their plan they plan to get there, send her 325 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: out to talk to the Shoshoni tribe to get these horses. 326 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: But which was a good plan, but it was even 327 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: way better. It worked out like almost like it had 328 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: been written in a movie script or something, because I 329 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: think it is. Lewis shows up first and has contacts 330 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: with an older woman of the tribe, and then about 331 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: sixty Shoshone on horseback ride up and they're like, you 332 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: seem like a decent guy, you're friendly, let's all make 333 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: this workout. Then Park's group shows up about a day 334 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: later with Chicago Way and they're like, oh my god, 335 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: it's you. You were the one that was kidnapped and 336 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: taken away so many years ago. And then Chief kama 337 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: Wait rides up and it's Icago Way's brother. Yeah. So 338 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: not only did they get to have this reunion, but um, 339 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark are like, yes, we're going to Yeah, 340 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: the chief is her brother, Like this is perfect. But 341 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: you know what that stuck out to me as Chuck, 342 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: Um that meant that Chicago way, it probably would have 343 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: met Lewis and Clark even if she had never been kidnapped. 344 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, maybe didn't that really crazy to think like 345 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: that one way or another she was going to probably 346 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: meet Lewis and Clark even even with her life diverging 347 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: that radically from its you know, original projected path. Yeah, 348 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: And what it really did was um, I mean, she 349 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: was already proving to be useful in that she could 350 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: identify berries and things that you could eat and plants 351 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: that you could use as medicine, and kind of acted 352 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: as the um the navigator in a lot of cases 353 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: like no, we need to go this way. I've been 354 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: here before, this is where I grew up. Yeah, there's 355 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: a huge, huge rock called Beaverhead Rock that she um 356 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: famously recognized that you can go visit and stand in 357 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: the place basically where she showed Lewis and Clark like, look, 358 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: my my people are going to be right around here. 359 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: I recognize this place. Yeah, so they've already got all 360 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: this respect for up until that point. And then she 361 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: has such an end with the Shoshone. Like you said, 362 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: they get I'm sure a really good deal on the horses. 363 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: And not only that, but they get help. They get 364 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: like they kind of partner up with them to help 365 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: them along, which is a really big deal. Yeah, because 366 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark's expedition had UM somewhere in the neighborhood 367 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: of forty people, involved huge boats, several huge boats, lots 368 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: of equipment, lots of instruments. And some people say, well, 369 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: like if they needed horses a bad way and they 370 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: bring the horses because they traveled by water, they really 371 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: needed horses really really badly. But just for this one 372 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: specific part of the trip in between the Missouri and 373 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: the Columbia River, Thomas Jefferson very famous famously called a 374 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: dilly of a pickle that they had run into. UM. 375 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: But the fact that they were able to get the 376 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: horses from the shown um, it just basically checked this 377 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: enormous box that the whole expedition UM was predicated on. 378 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: They just couldn't They could not have completed their mission 379 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: without this and UM, so I could go away and 380 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: basically brokered that made sure that box got checked. And 381 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: there's one other thing that stands out about her too, 382 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: that that gets overlooked us on a few places. Um, 383 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: Charbonneau had another wife who was Shoshone, and if they 384 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: needed a Shoshoni speaker, who was who was? You know 385 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: with Sharbonneau who came with Sharbonneau. Um, they could have 386 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: very easily gone with Otter woman the other the other 387 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: Um I guess victim of Charbonneau. Um, And they didn't. 388 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: They went with Sacagea, who knowing full well that she 389 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: came with an infant, now like there was going to 390 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: be an infant, even though with Otter Woman there wouldn't 391 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: have been so clearly. Chicago way is like putting out 392 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: the right kind of vibes. That's saying like, I'm extraordinarily competent. 393 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: You should probably pick me, even though if you pick me, 394 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to be bringing a newborn baby along on 395 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: this frontier trek. Um. I think that says a lot 396 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: about the kind of UM I guess, charisma or competence 397 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. She was putting out that that that Lewis 398 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: and Clark were like, yes, I think she would be 399 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: the better of the two. Yeah, because you don't want 400 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: a two month old baby along. No, But if you're 401 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: you're cute. But now but if you say, okay, we'll 402 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: have a two month baby along like that says a 403 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: lot about the mom that's carrying the baby around and 404 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: where her abilities are. I think, yeah, absolutely. Um. She 405 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: also proved her worth when and I can't remember if 406 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: we I think we might have talked about this when 407 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: there was one of their sailing vessels almost capsized when 408 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: a big squall hit it. Apparently Charbonneau was navigating. He 409 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: panicked under pressure, and it was Chicago Way who was 410 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: calm and said, you know what, we need to get 411 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: these papers together. We need to get the books that 412 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: we've been writing in, all these navigational instruments and medicines 413 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: and provisions and other stuff. We need to get it 414 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: all together and take care of it. And oh also 415 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: this baby, uh and basically saved that situation. And Charbonneau 416 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: was just you know, he was like, oh my god, 417 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, oh my gosh, sacarbl 418 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: sac Blue is right. So yeah, that was That's one 419 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: of the big stories that's told about Sacagaweya so much. 420 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: So I mean, um that that either Lewis or Clark 421 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: wrote about it, and basically was like, Um, this this 422 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: second away is an amazing person, Like she's she's doing 423 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: stuff that other members of the Corps not doing. I 424 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: mean there's I think at least twelve members of the 425 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: Corps Discovery who aren't mentioned by name in either of 426 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: the journals of Lewis and Clark throughout the expedition. They 427 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: did work, they did their their job obviously, UM, but 428 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: they didn't get mentioned because they weren't doing stuff like 429 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: Scagueya was. And I think the fact that she's mentioned 430 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: multiple times with kind of um frequently discussing like just 431 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: they're impressed, how impressed they were with her, it says 432 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: a lot as well. Um. Yeah, I mean they named 433 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: because of that sailing incident, they named a branch of 434 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: the Missouri River after her. And I think Clark um 435 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: was the one who really closer to her. Uh. It's 436 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: really hard to get a read on exactly what the 437 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: nature of their relationship was. It seems just like maybe 438 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: mentor type of relationship, and that he kind of took 439 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: her under his wing and took these long walks with her. Um. 440 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything untoward about it. It is 441 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: kind of what I'm getting at. I don't have that 442 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: impression either, and I have not run across the history 443 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: and that's asserted that there was something untoward about it 444 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: either the way they were close, the way yeah they 445 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: were The way I took it was like an adopted 446 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: little sister kind of thing. Yeah, that's kind of the 447 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: way I see it. I also don't think Charbonneau would 448 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: have stood for that. I think that would have been 449 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: not okay with him, because he was the kind of 450 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: guy who would be like, that's my property, you know, right, Well, 451 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: of course, so I yeah, I don't have the impression, 452 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: but yeah, I thought the same thing, you know as well. Uh. 453 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: And in fact, they thought so much of her, especially Clark. 454 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: And this is a really telling thing is that they 455 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: gave when they reached the Pacific coast, there was a 456 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: vote on whether or not to stay there for the 457 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: winter or not, and they actually let her vote, which 458 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: in the early eight hundreds, to let a woman have 459 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: a vote like that was remarkable. So um, when they 460 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: when they decided to stay, that vote um led to 461 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 1: them staying in what's now a story of Oregon. They 462 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: build a winter quarters called Fort clats Up after a 463 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: friendly tribe nearby, and so what I thought too, but 464 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: it's it's close. There's an l in there. Uh yeah, 465 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: clasts up. Uh. But the class up people said, hey, 466 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: get this, there's a beached whale. You gotta see this thing. 467 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: It's enormous. And so I think Louis was like, Okay, 468 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna go check this out. You guys stay here 469 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: and psychic away. I know we talked about this in 470 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: the Lewis and Clark episode Psychic Way and said, look, man, 471 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: I have walked a long ways and helped you guys out, 472 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: and the idea that you're not going to let me 473 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: see the ocean. I've never seen any ocean. You're not 474 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: gonna let me see the ocean and this giant whale 475 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: that's been beached come on. And so Louis relented very famously. 476 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, come along, so it's I could 477 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: go away a kind of. She put her foot down 478 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: basically and said, no, I'm I'm going to see this 479 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: um that would be unusually cruel not to let me. 480 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: So she went and saw this, this giant whale, She 481 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: saw the ocean for the first time. I mean, that's 482 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: a pretty big I've never seen a beached whale imagine 483 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: seeing a beached whale the first time you see the 484 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: ocean too, you know. Yeah, I remember when I uh 485 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: as a young kid when I we showed my grandmother 486 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: the ocean for the first time, and she was in 487 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: her uh jeez, she was probably in her seventies. She 488 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: lived to be a hundred, so she had to be 489 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: in her mid seventies when we took her the ocean 490 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: and we walked her out there, and she walked out 491 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: on the beach. I'll never forget it and said, oh 492 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: it's big, that's cute, and that was about it. She 493 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: didn't hang out for long. It's like, I'm good, this 494 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: is enough. Yeah, And there was no whale to poke 495 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: with a stick. So, um you I'm kidding, by the way, 496 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: you should never do that, poke a whale with a stick. Yeah, 497 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: I was. I was making a joke. That wasn't nice. 498 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: I think everybody knew that chuck. Yeah, you try and 499 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: get that whale back in the water if you can, 500 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: now with the stick, though not with the stick. Um, 501 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: you want to take our second break, Yeah, we'll talk 502 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: about how this all wrapped up in what happened to 503 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: her afterward. Right for this st you should know, gosh 504 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: suck stuff, you should know. Okay, So they made it 505 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: to the Pacific. They overwintered there and I think eighteen 506 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: o five eighteen os X and then they started to 507 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: make their way back, and um, they actually went right 508 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: back to the same um hitatsa settlement that international training 509 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: post or outside of Bismarck, North Dakota, UM where they 510 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: picked up Charbonneau and Sacaga and they said, hey, thanks 511 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: a lot, We'll see you guys later. And everywhere I saw, um, 512 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: Charbonneau was paid something like five dollars and thirty three 513 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: cents for his efforts, and Psycha was not paid anything. Um, 514 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: although I saw also in this article that she was 515 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: paid as well, what do you can do? You have 516 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: any idea? Yeah, you know, I was confused to everywhere 517 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: else I looked said that she did not get direct payment, 518 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: which article said that she did. I don't know, but 519 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be right. Um. Or maybe they 520 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: just sort of said, well, since her captor slash husband 521 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: was paid and sort of means she was. I'm not sure, 522 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: but I saw nowhere else that said that she was 523 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: actually paid independently, and I mean that would make the 524 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: most sense you know, although after that that expedition, it's 525 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: I could I would also not be surprised if she 526 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: was paid directly, even though it bucked you know, convention. Yeah, 527 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: he got paid five dollars and three and twenty acres 528 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: of land, which was pretty good. And it's like, I 529 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: tried to do a inflation comp but it's they don't 530 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: even have anything. I think it said, like when you 531 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: when you go that far back, you can't even compare 532 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: it to today's Really west, they gave me a um 533 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: an estimate of about nine grand. Oh see, I saw. 534 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: I saw that too, but I didn't see that as 535 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: a as a direct inflation calculator, more like the goods 536 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: that you could have bought back then. No, no, I 537 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: saw that. It just didn't seem like a wonder one 538 00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: to me. Um even still, it seems like, really I 539 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: would I would imagine five dollars back then would be 540 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: like ten trillion today, you know, Yeah, it would seem 541 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: it would seem to be the case. It's it's a 542 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: little weird, but yeah, because I mean, like a journey 543 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: of thousands of miles um at the behest of the 544 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: president of the United States getting paid nine grand seems 545 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: like it just seems like you would get more than that. 546 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, but then again, he's a fur trapper 547 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: who only speaks at Atza in French, so who knows. 548 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: I think what confused me is like if you enter 549 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: five hundred dollars a hundred years later, it's like fifteen 550 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: thousand or maybe that does work. I don't know. It 551 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: just didn't seem to work out math wise. But what 552 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: do I know? Yeah, no, I'm with you. Who you 553 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: kind of have to be able to peer back into 554 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: the vagaries of the American economy over the last couple 555 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: of hundred years to suss that out. I looked it 556 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: up and it said that what that would be today 557 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: would be two hundred eight beaver tails and nine thousand dollars. 558 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: Poor beaver. I know. That's the other thing about Sharbonneau 559 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: that people don't say. He killed a lot of animals 560 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: for their pelts. So all right, so after the expedition, 561 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,959 Speaker 1: she stayed with Charbonneau. Um, I think a few years 562 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: later they moved to with Little Baptiste moved to St. Louis. Yeah, 563 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: the invitation of m clark, right, yeah, and it says 564 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: you know that they he offered them an opportunity of 565 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: land to farm, which I don't quite get because he 566 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: just got three acres of land. I was wondering if 567 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: that was one and the same. Maybe I couldn't quite 568 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: part that out, but at any rate, he's like, here, 569 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: you come, here, here's some land to farm if you 570 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: let me educate your son, uh in the you know, 571 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: American sort of schooling system, and uh, you know that 572 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: was he was the godfather or of the boy at 573 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 1: that point. Really cared a lot about Baptiste and Chicago, ay, 574 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: and one of the best for him, and I think 575 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: that was a pretty decent deal for Charbonneu. Yeah, so, 576 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: I mean, um, I believe Clark officially adopted Baptiste as 577 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: his guardian at least, if not as his his adopted parent. Um. 578 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: And he was educated at the St. Louis Academy, I believe, 579 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: and then he um. I don't know how he met him, 580 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: but that Baptiste went on to meet a German prince 581 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: who was like, Hey, you should totally come back and 582 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: hang with me in Germany and I'll make sure you 583 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: get a European education, and he did. He moved to 584 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: Europe and was educated there. Um lived a pretty interesting life. Said, yeah, 585 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to America. Became a trapper for 586 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: a while. Um had a bunch of different interesting jobs. 587 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: I believe it was a hotel clerk in Auburn, California 588 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: for a little while. Um. So, yeah, he did a 589 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: bunch of different stuff and had a pretty pretty amazing life, uh, 590 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: in addition to basically being this the official mascot of 591 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: the Core of Discoveries expedition. Yeah, and he he ended 592 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: up taking guardianship because Charbonneau and Chicago Way left in 593 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: April eighteen eleven to go on another fur trading expedition, 594 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: and they left Baptist with him. So I can I 595 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: think it kind of worked out for everyone. Yeah. Yeah, 596 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: I get the impression. It wasn't like we don't want 597 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,879 Speaker 1: our kid and Louis give me your kid. I think 598 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: like it was for the best interest of the kid, 599 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: and they all loved him very much. That's the impression 600 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: I have. She also had a daughter about a year 601 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: after that, in eighteen twelve, Lisette or Lizette, I don't 602 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 1: know if it's an s or Z. And this is 603 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: where we get to the sort of fork in the 604 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: road as to what actually happened to Chicago way, and 605 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: there are a couple of stories. One is that she 606 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: died not long after of what was called putrid fever 607 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: or which is probably typhoid fever. There's another story and 608 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,399 Speaker 1: which she would have been about twenty five years old 609 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: in December of eighteen twelve. There's another story that she 610 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: went on to live a very long life in another 611 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: part of the country. But I think that one has 612 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: kind of been shot down, right. Yeah, So at the 613 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: at the turn of the last century, um, CHICAGOA was 614 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: kind of dug out of obscurity. Um. Well, actually there 615 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: was a guy who was the the official I don't know, 616 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: biographer chronicler of the Core of Discoveries expedition where he 617 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: was in charge. His name was A Biddle. I believe 618 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 1: he was in charge of basically taking the um notes 619 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: of the Core discovering getting them ready for publication. You 620 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: just couldn't publish the whole thing like that. He he 621 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: edited them basically, but he also interviewed Clark, and out 622 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: of his interviews with Clark, we we found a lot 623 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: more out about Chicago Aya than we knew before. And 624 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: Biddle was like, this is a very interesting story right here, 625 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put Chicago away a front and center. So 626 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: he kind of brought Chicago way into the foreground for 627 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: the first time. But then, almost a century later, as 628 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: the UM the women's suffrage movement was starting to gain 629 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: momentum Uh, there was a woman named Um Emily no 630 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: Eva emery Die who wrote a book about the Lewis 631 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: and Clark expedition and said, here's my heroine. Chicago is 632 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: a heroine. I'm going to basically use her as an 633 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: icon for the suffragette movement. UM. And that's how she 634 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: kind of became this this symbol from that point on. 635 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: I don't remember what kicked up the spiel, though you 636 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: asked a question, you said something, What was it? Do 637 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: you remember my spiel about how UM Chicago was kind 638 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:52,359 Speaker 1: of brought out of obscurity by these writers. Oh oh, um, 639 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: where where it came? This idea came from that um 640 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: she had she had gone on to live a long life. UM. 641 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: That first book that was written by Eva emery Die 642 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: was picked up by another historian who said, you know what, Um, 643 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: I've heard these stories about this woman who went on 644 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: to live at the wind River plant Um Reservation. And 645 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: I think she's actually Chicago, WEA. And that kind of 646 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: kicked off this whole hunt. Yeah, because like you said, 647 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: there was I mean, there are numerous, um, numerous people 648 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: who wrote down sort of officially that she did die 649 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: very young at five years old, including I think Clark 650 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,479 Speaker 1: uh in one of his um I think like maybe 651 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: a financial leisure leisure ledger. It was a cash book 652 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: about like where people like where are they? Where they now? 653 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: Basically have they've been paid? And uh, next to her 654 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: name he just wrote dead, which not even a face next. 655 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: I guess if it's a ledger, you're just trying to 656 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: sort of, you know, be cold about it. But that 657 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,720 Speaker 1: someone who really cared a lot about her, it seemed 658 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: it probably wasn't the right place to wax philosophical, right. 659 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: But also some people have said, um, well, no, he 660 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: was covering for her because she The legend goes that 661 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: she left Sharbonneau ran off to live a life away 662 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 1: from her as an independent woman, right exactly, which really 663 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: kind of dovetailed with the suffragette movements, um, push for 664 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: women's rights. Um, So that was a great idea that 665 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: that that that's what she did, and the idea was 666 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: that Clark was covering for her in his little cash 667 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: ledgers by saying she was dead, knowing full well she 668 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: was alive. Other people are like, who's going to ever 669 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: look in Clark's cash ledger? Like Sharponne is ever going 670 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: to get his hands on it? That's probably not correct. 671 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 1: And there the whole idea that she went on to 672 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 1: live on the wind River Reservation until age a hundred 673 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: when she died in like the eighteen eighties, makes for 674 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: a good story. It makes for a great story. And 675 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: there was a woman who did live like that. Her 676 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: name was Para evo Um, also known as Basil's mother, 677 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: who lived to be a hundred and a lot of 678 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: people said, no, that's soccagaweya. But that was before more 679 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: historical record came out Um, including an account from a 680 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: guy who worked for the same fur trading company that 681 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: Charbonneau did knew Charbonneau personally and wrote in his journal 682 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 1: had no reason to make anything up. But in December, 683 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: I think on December twentie of eighteen twelve, was it 684 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: wrote that Charbonneau's wife, uh, he's the one who said 685 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: that she had a putrid fever and died and that 686 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: she was the best woman in the fort. She was 687 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: a good woman and the best woman in the fort. 688 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: She was aged about twenty five years, which totally fits 689 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: the bill for Chicago auayah. And she left the fine 690 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 1: infant girl. Yes, so once that once that guy's journal 691 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: was found, that was basically the nail in the coffin 692 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: of the idea that Chicago Aua had had lived to 693 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: age a hundred after escaping her captor husband. Yeah, I 694 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: think what kind of cool, as you know, even though 695 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: there's very little officially recorded about her life, everywhere she 696 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: is recorded, it's all glowing praise um. There's not like 697 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: one entry where anyone was ever like, boy Cicago and 698 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: that baby are really like, what a mistake that was. 699 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: By all accounts, she was a boon to the Core 700 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: Discovery and a big, big part of its success. Yeah. 701 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: And so as a result, Chuck Um Lifetime is in 702 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: Lifetime Movie Network. Lifetime. I couldn't find the year, but 703 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: they recently conducted a survey of memorials to create the 704 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 1: Lifetime Her Story map, and of I think hundred plus statues, 705 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,439 Speaker 1: monuments and memorials that exists in the United States, only 706 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: about two hundred, which is around four honor Women, but 707 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: of those, two hundred sixteen honor Cicagowa, which means that 708 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 1: she is the most honored woman via monuments and statues 709 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: in the entire United States. Amazing. The first one, from 710 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: what I read, was by a group of suffragettes in Portland, 711 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: Oregon in NT five, And that statue is obviously still 712 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: there today, and it is beautiful. And guess who's strapped 713 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: to her back in the statue? Um, loss set little 714 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: Baptisset's right, you got anything else? No other than and 715 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: we should mention. I don't think we know a lot 716 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: about what happened to Lasette. Unfortunately she was sort of 717 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: lost to history. Yeah, for sure. Um, I guess that's it. 718 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: That's it, all right. So since we said that's it, 719 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: that means it's time everybody for listener mail. Yeah, we're 720 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: gonna do a couple of corrections. A bit of a 721 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: maya culpa for me. In a correction, Um, I said 722 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: the word redneck a lot entitled the episode about the Clan. 723 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: Uh use the word redneck, and uh, you know, I 724 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have. That's a derogatory term. The name actually 725 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 1: has a different history. I think West Virginia Coal Miners 726 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: has something to do with that, and I just wasn't 727 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: really being as sensitive enough. I'm not apologizing for for 728 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 1: degrading the clan, but I probably shouldn't use the word 729 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,439 Speaker 1: rednecked with such a broadbrush. Think about it. The chuck 730 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: that means the clan is so rotten they give Rednecks 731 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: a bad name. That's essentially what we're saying here. I 732 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 1: love it. Uh. And then as from that same episode, 733 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: we need to address the Robert Bird instant from a 734 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: lot of people that, Yeah, so I think we were 735 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: talking about Senator Robert Bird sort of being unapologetic about 736 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,399 Speaker 1: being in the clan. That was very much not the case. 737 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: This is one of the many emails, and this is 738 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: from Aaron Patrick Lyons. He him his hey, listen to 739 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: the great episode in the KKK, and as usual, did 740 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: a bang up job. However, I have to take issue 741 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: with Josh's statement indicating the Senator Robert Bird was an 742 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: unrepentant Lansman. He was indeed an exalted cyclops or local 743 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: leader of the clan in the fifties into the fifties, 744 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: but through the seventies and eighties he had a sincere 745 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,440 Speaker 1: change of heart regarding race relations and voted for the 746 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior National Holiday, among other legislation in 747 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: his very long career. He was deeply embarrassed, embarrassed and 748 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: apologetic about his time in the clan UH. And that 749 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,720 Speaker 1: is like I said, from Eric Patrick, Aaron Patrick Lyons, 750 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: and Cedar Paul's Iowa. We heard from a lot of 751 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: people that um, not only did he vote for the 752 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: MLK holiday, but apparently did a lot of work for 753 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: legislation to UH for equal rights for African Americans. I 754 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: totally flubbed that one. To my apologies to Robert Bird's 755 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: family for his legacy in that small way, and I'm 756 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,800 Speaker 1: glad we got corrected almost immediately right after the episode 757 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: came out. It was I can't believe you guys used 758 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,520 Speaker 1: redneck so much. You were totally wrong about Robert Burg. 759 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,439 Speaker 1: So this this listener mail is perfect. And then there's 760 00:45:58,480 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 1: one other thing I want to say too about the 761 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: neck thing, chuck Um. Somebody pointed out I think it 762 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: was on Twitter that using the word redneck it's not 763 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: only derogatory towards rednecks, it obfuscated it cover it up. 764 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: All of the people who aren't rednecks, who see who 765 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 1: are just kind of everyday normal people who are either 766 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: in the clan or subscribe to the clan's ideologies. That 767 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: it makes it seem like just this marginal group um 768 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: or a marginal thought or fringe thought, when it's really 769 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: kind of subscribed to by an alarming number of people 770 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,359 Speaker 1: that you know, you live in, work beside, and might 771 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: never really guess at just how deep their racism goes. 772 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: So I think that's another reason to have a shoot 773 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,439 Speaker 1: it as well. Yeah, and you know, I'm not gonna 774 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: stick up for myself, but I think when you grow 775 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: up in the South, you might feel like you have 776 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,759 Speaker 1: a little bit of ownership. So yeah, my apologies to 777 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: all the great rednecks of the world. That's right. Sorry 778 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: Jeff Foxworthy, Sorry Larry the Cable Guy, who's actually not 779 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: really a redneck if you listen to David cross Is 780 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,959 Speaker 1: beef with him. Yeah, I mean that's a that's fully 781 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: an act, right. Yeah, from what I understand, he created 782 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,279 Speaker 1: that persona to get more fans and comedy. That's right. 783 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: Uh smart, that's right. And uh, well, I guess since 784 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 1: we started talking about Larry the Cable Guy, that's the 785 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 1: end of this episode and listener mail is petered out. 786 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: Uh And if you want to get in touch with 787 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 1: us to correct us or call us out for something 788 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,400 Speaker 1: or whatever, um lay it on us, send us an 789 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:33,560 Speaker 1: email to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff 790 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio for 791 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio because at the iHeart 792 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 793 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: favorite shows.