WEBVTT - Ep. 39: Offset Hooks and Confused Billionaires 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:10.200 I think it's crunken, steam crunk and steam crunk ron 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.040 Stein or m Stein, I said, three quarters of your 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.239 body will be flash and he said, and what is 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.000 the allocation of water to those three quarters of my body? 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:23.040 And before I was shown this modification, I was losing 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.760 about the bites when I fished southwest. The follow up, 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.040 Flawning and Boasting just tells me you actually don't have 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:36.280 a brain cell in your head. Good morning, degenerate anglers, 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.240 and welcome to Bend, the podcast that loves two stroke 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.960 outboard fumes and the mildewy funk of live wells. I'm 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.040 Joe Samli, I'm Miles Nulty, and I'm a dent. On 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:52.400 board with this, I would be I realized neither of 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:57.000 those smells are objectively pleasant, but both of them make 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.240 me very happy. Yeah, dude, smell memory is a real thing. 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.080 It is. It is, and and thank you for bringing 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:04.840 that up because it lets me say some geeky shit 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.200 I learned recently. The old factory bulb, which is the 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.040 part of your brain that sends the smell, sends information 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.520 straight to the hippocampus, the part of your brain that 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.679 turns information into memory. Smells play a huge role in 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.320 memory making, especially the long term memory. So this is weird, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.040 but I can actually recall the smells of fishing from 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:30.160 thirty years ago, far better than arguably more important things 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.760 like family members birthdays, which I'm terrible at remembering. I 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:36.560 don't know why that is, but it's the smell thing. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.640 I can't smell birthdays, I can smell outboard vimes. Dude, No, 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.760 I'm with you. And here's here's mine, right, my dad's 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.680 old plan out tackle boxes, which as a kid like 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.400 I I'd sneakily root around in all the time while 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:55.000 he was had this weird man, it was almost like 0:01:55.080 --> 0:02:00.520 this fresh mulch slash sour milk smell. Do you know 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.080 what I'm talking about? I wouldn't have described it that way, 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.440 but yes, I think I know what's talking about. Yeah, 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.959 I've I've smelled it many times and many other tackle 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.720 boxes over the years. And usually happens, I guess when 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.799 like wet lawers are put away or and and then 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.480 that box isn't open again for a very long time. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:22.680 Someone once told me it has something to do with 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:25.799 gases given off by the plastic lawers getting trapped in 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.520 the box. But that could be totally inaccurate. I don't 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.480 really know the cause, but it's a vivid smell. It's 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.720 a vivid smell. I don't think it's it's rust. I 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.480 would buy the plastic over the rust. And like, to me, 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.960 there's also this undercurrent of of like power bait funk 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.920 somewhere in there, because there was always an arrant piece 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.480 of power bait that got stuck someplace in the box 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.760 and left alone. Yes, but what I will say that 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.359 was like this is pre power bait, so like this 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.520 is like my dad's boxes going back to the early 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.600 eighties before all that. So it's just like plugs and 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.440 a couple bags of plastic worms. No, you're absolutely right, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.120 you precowerbated. It still had that very special I don't 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.240 know what that smell comes from, but I know I 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.600 know the smell of an old tackle box being open. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:11.680 That resonates me. And I appreciate the fact that we 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.000 we share these things in common, and I'm gonna I'm 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.560 gonna push a little further and just to see if 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.080 we have something else in common. I'm gonna ask you 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.560 a stupid question. And I realized before it even jump 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.160 on me. I realized it's a stupid question because it 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.040 doesn't have a definite answer, But I'm gonna ask you 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:29.600 anyway because I think it's just something that we need 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.960 to talk about. I'm just curious to get your perspective. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:38.920 Do you consider fishing to be more art or science? Oh? God, 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.080 that that could not be more loaded. Um, I know, 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.280 I I think I know where you're going with this. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.640 But before we go off on whatever tangent you have 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.640 in mind, just brief brief pause to remind everyone that 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:56.440 this podcast is geared up fishing, right, Yes, that it is. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.800 Uh and and I can honestly say that thirteen Fishing 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.560 does a nice job of combining art and science into 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.720 fishing here because it's both effective and works on the water, 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.520 does what's gotta do, and it's a nice looking it's 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.640 aesthetically pleasing gear. Totally totally this this past shad season. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.960 I actually leaned on their fate steel line of steelhead 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.640 of rods hard during the shad run out here and 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.200 Chad turn fast like steely, so that extra length and 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.600 softness combats these maneuvers nicely. Yeah, you also got the 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:27.800 extra length to work through the seams and have a 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:29.960 little bit more ability to move that line in the river. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.160 They were there an excellent choice. Those do make very 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.159 fine river steel heading rods, I can say. But I 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.680 actually got the shad fish with you this season for 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:42.040 the first time, and they worked beautifully. It was great. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.920 Those fish, dude, those fish pole. I was. I was impressed, 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:51.040 yea impressed. We won't give we won't give too much away, okay, 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.039 but just strong chance Miles was here to shoot an 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.280 episode of B Side Fishing with me for season two 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.360 and taste those shad that he once claimed this very 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:04.320 show or delicious with no personal experience at all. Exactly. Yeah, 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.640 So what was the verdict? You will you will have 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:08.919 to wait and see oh so much. I want to 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:10.560 stay here, but I'm not gonna give anything away. You 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.440 will all just have to go and watch that episode 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.599 when it comes out. Oh yeah, all will be revealed there. Anyway, 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.400 we got sidetracked, so you asked me if I consider 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.000 fishing more art or science, which is, as you said yourself, 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.720 kind of a stupid question because it's both where are 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.400 we going? Like, what are we really trying to get 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.800 at here? That's that's fair. I left it open edited 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:32.200 because I was I was hoping you just kind of 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.400 pick up the ball and roll with it and start 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.440 saying some things. But I'm I'm really curious to know 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:45.159 like where you land in the spectrum of intuitive versus 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.200 pattern based fishing, Right, I think I think that's really 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.080 the more specifically what I'm trying to get it. I 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.919 will I admit that that for myself, I'm more of 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.320 a science guy kind of when it comes to how 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.680 I approach fishing. The guy, Yeah, this is true. You 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.839 know this. I have spreadsheets from every season that I guided, 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.920 logging all kinds of different data, you know, weather, water temperature, 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.560 angler skill, what we fish, what worked, what didn't, how 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.600 the bite changed throughout the day. And I still use 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.159 that information like if I'm if I'm gonna go fishing 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:19.800 on Saturday, I'll go back through all those logs and 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.640 I'll look at them and and think, all right, what's 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.080 the water temperature, what's the weather, And I'll try and 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.239 use those previous experiences that I documented to help decide 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.960 where I'm gonna go and what I'm gonna use. Sure, Sure, 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.840 And I appreciate that. And I because I've had so 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:39.760 many false starts with journals. It's not even funny, right, 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.640 But I guess the way I'd sum it up is 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:48.280 fishing to me is more art. But you can't like 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.000 reach Da Vinci status without the science, or some level 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.599 of science. They have to go hand in hand. Like 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.160 I know a lot of guys that just seem to 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:58.840 have the touch, you know what I mean, the knack. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:03.119 We're just fishier. And none of them are keeping detailed logs. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.120 They just know how to work this lor that fly 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.320 a certain way in this scenario. But none of that 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.240 matters if you don't have some understanding of the science 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.720 behind your target. And I don't I put myself into 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.040 this category. I guess like I consider whether in Tampson 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.120 all that, But usually when I pick a lor fly, 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.160 it just feels right. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.320 But I tend to lean on my gut more than 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.440 data I want. If I'm being honest, I've never been 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.200 one of those guys that's just like inherently fishy, you know, 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.560 like I'm I'm I consider myself a very good angler. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.320 I've try fished a lot, but I'm not one of 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.520 those people that just like, oh it just it just 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.000 comes to me. There's no right or wrong like you're 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.320 you're you're in good standing either way. Like I'm not 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:48.400 making fun of that, no, no, I know, I know, 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.040 but it's it's it's a really it's a real thing 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.360 within the fishing community. There are those people, and I'm 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.760 not gonna lie. Part of me kind of hates them 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.840 that they just they have this weird sixth sense where 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:00.640 they're like, Oh, I'm gonna use this and it's gonna work, 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.320 Like why did that work? And I've always wanted to 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.360 be more that way. I wish I had more confidence 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.520 in my intuition. It's not like I'm afraid to change 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.720 up my program in the middle of the fissure but 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.920 it's not working. It's not like I'm stuck on whatever 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.000 preconceived idea I started with. But I usually do that 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.560 based on something that I see, like some evidence that 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.720 that the bite might be shifting or or or something 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.680 that's going on that keeps me in like maybe I 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.400 should try this. But it's always based on theory and conjecture. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.200 I'm just not one of those people that has some 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.280 random hair brained idea popping in my head out of 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.480 nowhere and then and then that works. You see, every 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.679 time I try and make that happen, Like I'm like, well, 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.320 today I'm gonna be doing something that doesn't seem to 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.319 make sense because it works for everybody else that does. 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.079 I just get blanked and then I'm frustrated, and then 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.160 I go back to what I think, based on evidence, 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.960 what I think should be working. Yeah. Yeah, And in fairness, 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.160 I end up there a lot too. But I find 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.439 it more satisfying when the wild card produces. I mean, 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.920 especially like on our real a tough shitty day, and 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.000 when it happens, I suddenly could care less why you 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.440 know what I mean, Like in in the spring as 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.400 an example, like when the water is still cold, like 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.480 I know I should be fishing a jerk bait for smallis, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.280 but in times of desperation, when when everything that should 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:22.200 isn't isn't producing anything, like I've thrown on a jitterbug 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.560 and just been like, I don't know why not nothing 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.000 else has worked, and then like it gets trashed. And 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:28.920 with stuff like that, I feel like I'm not going 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.360 to figure out why and it may never happen again, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.920 so just enjoy it, like, don't analyze it. No, I 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.520 don't know why it happened. I agree, I agree. That's 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.319 what I'm saying, Like I I wish I had that. Well, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.360 I'm just gonna throwing the I've tried the jitterbug analogy 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.160 and I end up being like, well that didn't work either, 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.360 that was stupid, and that's usually doesn't. But every once 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.720 in a while, it's like this water's thirty two degrees 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.200 and he just came up and smoked that. That's. Nothing 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.640 ever written in history about fishing says that should have happened. 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.840 And your point is good, because you have to try 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.720 those ideas for them to ever work. If you don't 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.839 try them and you don't try them with confidence, they 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.880 never work. And that is where I struggle. And for example, 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:11.640 my father was the opposite of me. He was completely 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.800 intuitive in the way that he approached fishing. That dude 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.600 never read a fishing magazine or a book or a 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:23.240 website in his life. Whatever decisions he made about what 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.080 to fish or how to fish or wear to cat 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.960 any fishing decision he ever made was never cluttered with 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.080 any you know, like what you're supposed to do interference. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.240 He just didn't have any of that. He wasn't knowledgeable 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.920 in the classic sense, and he wasn't actually a very 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.920 good angler, but he caught bigger fish than me almost 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.720 all the time, and to be to be I just 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.560 want to tell everybody, I'm not saying anything that I 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.760 wouldn't have and didn't say to his face, Like if 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.560 you were here right now, I would I would say, like, Dad, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:57.680 by the time I was ten, I was a far 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.840 better fisherman than you. But like the fact that I 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.240 was more skillful and informed didn't matter. He still caught 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.640 the biggest fish and it drove me nuts. Yeah. Well, 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.120 I mean, I've been a better angler than my dad 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.240 since I was born, I think. And he'll call me 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.440 as soon as he hears this. As soon as he 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.600 hears this, um, you know. And he hit the fire, 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.840 no doubt, he nurtured the flame. But then I used 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.800 that flame to burn the city down, and he was like, 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.760 I can't keep up with this fire. It's just too 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.840 much fire. That's that. That's another story for later. Anyway, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.200 We're gonna start things off today with the Smooth Moves 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.880 about an unnamed famous person whose approach to fishing would 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:48.679 most definitely skew towards the scientific approach. Why it is 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.160 time again for smooth moves. You know the part of 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.839 the show where we call up people who make their 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.320 money taking other people fishing, and we get them to 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.640 tell the stories of some of the most ridiculous things 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.480 they've ever seen wall fishing with clients joining us today 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.720 are good, good friend, Hilary Hutson, Hillary, how's it going, Hey, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.840 how's it going good? It's all about the stories, it is, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.280 and in that spirit, like the purpose of this segment 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.240 is to bring everyone out there into that guy check 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.199 for a little bit of those those complaining sessions. All right, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.200 So Hillary, with with that tea up, what did you 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:29.160 bring for us today? Well, so many of us who 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.720 guide in Montana end up taking celebrities. Um, you know, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.760 you get anything from like a pro football coach to 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.400 an actress to you know whatever. At some level, it's 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.199 going to be somebody who has all of the money 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.080 and all of the fame and fortune and all of 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.120 the power. It's like it's space time, continuum, vortex of 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:52.400 weirdness and that that was this particular day. And it 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.040 kind of starts what by they're so famous that we 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.480 had three boats of security with this person. I'm not 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:02.280 mentioning this person's name, but he was late and at 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.720 the last second decided to switch from a fly fishing 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.960 trip to a whitewater rafting trip. And um, so, like 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.080 I said, they're late, real late. It was like seven 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.680 pm in July. We're supposed to put on it like 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.679 four or five. And yeah. So the first thing I say, 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.320 because I've got some snacks. We're all waiting at the 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.400 pud in and so I've got some snacks and so 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.880 I say to you know, super famous, rich, powerful portions, 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.760 are you hungry? And he is terror stricken in his face, 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.440 like he goes white, like he's not sure, and he 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.839 looks at one of his handlers and he says, am 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:40.800 I hungry And they say no, and he looks at me. 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.679 He goes, oh, yeah, we just ate. That's why we're late, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.840 right of course, of course it is. So so then 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.120 um we start walking down to the raft and we 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.800 go to to get in and I kind of say, okay, 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:54.720 I kind of watch your stuff get in here. And 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.920 he says, now, will I be splashed on this trip? 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.000 And I said, well, yeah, it's so hopefully they've told 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.160 you it's a white water rafting trip, so you're going 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.000 to be splashed. And he says, well, what proportions of 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.000 my body will be splashed? Okay, I gotta cut in 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.400 because we I so badly want all you people to 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.079 know who we're talking about when we promised not to 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.560 do that. But this is just reaffirming that this person, 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:24.800 as far as I'm concerned, is actually a robot. But also, 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.120 but also let's keep in mind, like you don't get 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.400 to the level that he's at without being some sort 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.600 of superhumpan. So there you go. Um, and he says, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.120 what proportions of my body will be splashed? And I 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.920 don't know why, how or why, I just like kept 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.360 cool with that. But I said, three quarters of your 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.560 body will be splashed, And he says, and what is 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:51.280 the allocation of water to those three quarters? So I said, 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.360 I said, I believe you will be evenly splashed along 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.160 the left side of your body, since you're on the 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.880 front left side, and I feel that you will be 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.320 periodically splashed um on the right hand side of your body. 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:11.200 And he nods like that's a normal, you know, totally normal. 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.200 So we get on the boat and we go he's 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:18.040 he's um great listener, like really like trying super hard 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.840 the paddling like very much present and kind of there 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.680 and is looking around at the beautiful surroundings here that 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:27.440 we have in the crown of the continent. And so 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:33.200 he says this is nice, and I say, well, isn't 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.840 it amazing? I say, this is yours, This is your 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.280 public lands. And I at this point see this opportunity 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.240 because this is the kind of person. We want to 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:46.640 understand that this is our shared environment. These are our 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.360 public lands. Here we are two and a half million 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.240 acres of wilderness between the Bob Martial Wilderness and the 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.440 Great Bear Wilderness, Scapegoat Wilderness and Glacier National Park. Here 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.640 we are. And I tell him this is your land. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.560 This is your land. And he sits up straight and 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.480 looks over to one of the boats of his security 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:14.520 and handlers and says, do I own this? And I'm thinking, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.800 oh goodness. I think he thinks he was, because I 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.200 just told him this this is your land. You own this. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.960 I teld him that this is yours. He says, is 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:29.160 this mine? He asked them, Is this mine? And I said, 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.240 I said well, And they say and they're they're looking 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.200 at each other like, I don't know, maybe it is 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.320 maybe we bought this I'm not sure, and so I 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.480 have to clarify. And we have a public lands lesson, 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.000 and we talked about this, you know that, and I 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.000 kind of even get into this is this is Native 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.720 American land like and what I mean, this is like 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.880 history lesson. We get super super deep in it. And 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.200 it was remarkable to see somebody learn about their public 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.240 lands like that. And he listened. Was remarkable that he listened. 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.119 He listened, and I could tell he was like putting 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.040 it somewhere. I don't know exactly where or if there's 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.320 room up there for it, but it seemed that he 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.919 was kind of filing in a way, UM, which I 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:17.479 really appreciated. UM. And then I'll end by telling you 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.360 that one of our other guides had an internship at NASA, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.200 his lifelong goal. He's this young kid, super young kid, 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.880 internship at NASA. And uh, famous powerful person said well, 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:30.359 I don't know, you can't. You shouldn't go work in 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.680 the government. You gotta work for for private sector. You 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.639 gotta work for the private sector. It got so tense 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.359 that I said, oh, Kayden, this guy, and I'm like, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.880 oh bluddy, no, don't worry, no matter like how rich 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.960 and famous and powerful, you get all roads lead back 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.200 to glacier. You could just end up being a fishing 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:50.000 bomb for the rest of your life. And rich, famous, 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.240 powerful person looks at him and says, Cayden, don't listen 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.320 to her. That's just her. You can be whatever you 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:02.359 want to be you put your mind to it. I'm sorry, 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.639 but to me, it feels mean that we're not telling 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.200 people who that was about. No, we we promised I 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.600 knew you're we're Beholden Sworen not to reveal the identity, 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.800 and the person in question here could crush us, like 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.960 he could erase us from the planet with one key stroke. 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.320 So we're not taking that chance. Yeah, I know, I know, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.520 you're right, We'll drop it. I gotta say that, while 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.679 I love that story and I found it fascinating portrait 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.320 of a person whose brain just works differently than my own, 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.320 it wasn't really a fishing story, Like he didn't never 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.040 really go fishing. That's true, that's true, he was supposed to, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.040 but he changed it up. But Hillary is a fishing 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.000 guide and that's the purpose of that segment. So I 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.879 think it still fits kind of like the book that 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.880 I'm about to describe this week, right, that's right. You've 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.280 got a freaking philistine segment this week where you're going 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.080 to try and convince all of us to read a 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.480 book that has nothing to do with fishing at all. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.320 Good luck with that fist. It's a guy who doesn't 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.840 care about books. Are interesting films and things that I'm 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.399 quick disclaimer. Why Fish Don't Exist by Lulu Miller is 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.840 not a book about fishing, but it is about fish 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.760 kind of. It's also about the desperate impulse to identify 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.360 patterns and impose order on the world around us. Our 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.280 collective need to construct a coherent framework on the human 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:28.879 experience so we can feel some sense of comfort in control. Anglers, 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.600 like scientists, don't just want to know that something works. 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.639 We want to know why. We need narratives based on 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:39.639 our experience to explain natural phenomena and resist chaos. Anglers, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.960 in my experience, to test chaos, and in that way, 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:47.359 at least, Lulu Miller is one of us. Miller's first 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:52.760 page states quote, it's not if it's when chaos is 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.720 the only sure thing in this world, the master that 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.639 rules us all. My scientist father taught me early on 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.600 that there is no escaping the second law of thermodynamics. 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.960 Entropy is only growing. It can never be diminished, no 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.040 matter what we do. Miller goes on to explain she 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.600 was indoctrinated into this truth at the age of seven. 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:16.040 Standing on a picturesque seaside doctoring a family vacation, she 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:21.600 asked her father the meaning of life. He responded, nothing. Chaos, 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.399 he informed her, was our only ruler. This massive swirl 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:29.200 of dumb forces was what made us accidentally and would 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:33.200 destroy us imminently. As special as you might feel, he 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.960 told his young daughter, you are no different than an aunt. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:41.120 A bit bigger, maybe, but no more significant. Miller describes 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.560 her father as quote a lively man who studies ions 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.959 the particles that carry the electricity that powers all life, heartbeat, lightning, 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:53.080 even thought itself. He doesn't use seatbelts or return addresses, 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.520 drinks copious amounts of beer, and enters the water whenever 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.920 possible with the belliest of flops. He seems to permit 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.160 himself just one lie to constrain his otherwise voracious hedonism, 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.520 to form a kind of moral code. While other people 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:13.520 don't matter either, treat them like they do. What could 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.880 be a grim reality has instead pumped his life full 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:20.560 of vigor has made him live big and good. But 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.439 that vacuous truth affected Miller differently than her father. For 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.600 a smart child with an overactive mind who might skew 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:32.320 toward narcissism, the terrifying truth of her own insignificance landed heavily, 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.520 and it's ripples sculpted the trajectory of her life. This 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:39.960 book traces the peaks and troughs of those ripples, and 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:44.240 the unexpected people discoveries, tragedies, and joys to which their 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:49.000 nihilistic force pushes the author. One of her primary discoveries 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:53.000 is a man named David Starr Jordan's Jordan was arguably 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.919 the most important theologist of all time. He and his 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:01.240 crew discovered named and classified morph species than anyone else 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:05.800 in history. He was the founding president of Stanford University. 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.720