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Speaker 1: Warning, This podcast coun take spoilers for the Last of

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Speaker 1: Us Part one video game, as well as a discussion

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Speaker 1: of the finale of the Last of Us show. Hello,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosie Night and

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Speaker 1: welcome to x ray Vision, the Crooked media podcast where

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Speaker 1: we dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: On this episode, in the previously on, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: that actually very shocking exit of Marvel Studio's EP Victoria Alonso.

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Speaker 2: In the airlock, we are finishing our Last of Us

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Speaker 2: Part one video game finale explainer, which is going to

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Speaker 2: be very interesting in the wake of the finale of

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we're very excited to have this conversation.

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Speaker 2: And in nerd out Page pitches us on the Netflix

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Speaker 2: series CeNSE eight. Oh, there's a big fandom for that one.

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Speaker 1: Of course. If you want to jump around, check the

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Speaker 1: show notes for timestamps coming up. Previously on, news dropped

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Speaker 1: just as we were going to record that executive producer

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Speaker 1: Victoria Alonso is exiting Marvel Studios. This from the Hollywood

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Speaker 1: Reporter story quote Victoria Alonso, the longtime high profile Marvel

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Speaker 1: Studios executive whose time of the company dates back to

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Speaker 1: the first iron Man has left the studio. Multiple sources

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Speaker 1: to The Hollywood Reporter. The reasons for the exit are unclear,

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Speaker 1: but she parted ways with Marvel on Friday, sources say.

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Speaker 1: The article continues. Alonso joined the studio in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six as chief of Visual Effects and post Production

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Speaker 1: and helped launch the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a co producer.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight Ironman twenty one, she was

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Speaker 1: promoted to President Physical and Post Production, Visual Effects and

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Speaker 1: Animation Production. The article continues further quote her departure comes

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Speaker 1: in the shadow of ant Man and The Last Quontumania's

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Speaker 1: poor showing of the box office and among critics and fans.

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Speaker 1: Your thoughts, Rosie Night, I was surprised.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not like, it's not like Figgy leaving,

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Speaker 2: but it's basically the second most shocking exit that there

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Speaker 2: could be. Victoria's been around. If you watch the YouTube

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Speaker 2: world premieres of the Marvel movies, which I always do,

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Speaker 2: you she will always be there. She's been a big

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Speaker 2: champion of directors like Ryan Coogler, Chloe Jao. She's been

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Speaker 2: really pushing for diversity. She is a gay woman she

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Speaker 2: spoke out about the Don't Say Gay bill. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I find this very interesting because she has done a

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Speaker 2: huge amount. She's definitely one of the hands that has

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Speaker 2: shaped the MCU as we know it, like as the

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Speaker 2: article mentioned, she's been at Marvel Studio since pre you know,

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Speaker 2: the Iron Man. But after the initial shock, it also

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Speaker 2: was something that made sense to me when I thought

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Speaker 2: about the recent issues that Marvel has had with VFX,

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Speaker 2: with the critiques of the way the VFX looks, but

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Speaker 2: more importantly, in my opinion, the issues they've had with

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Speaker 2: the treatment of VFX workers across the globe, and especially

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Speaker 2: like the stuff that we talked about before the burgeoning

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Speaker 2: Visual Effects union that Vulture reported on earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: So to me, my gut says, it's probably in the

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Speaker 2: realm of all of that, though we don't know, as

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Speaker 2: they mentioned the X, it kind of hasn't been confirmed

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Speaker 2: why she left. But yeah, it was surprising and then

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Speaker 2: less surprising when I really started to think about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is all obviously conjecture, but you know, on

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Speaker 1: our text chain, I thought the same thing. The critique

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Speaker 1: about the quality of the images in Marvel Cinematic Universe

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Speaker 1: movies dates back years like literally you can find articles sixteen,

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, why do Marvel movies

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Speaker 1: look like shit? Why do Marvel movies look ugly? Why

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Speaker 1: is the color palette bad? Why does it look muddy?

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Speaker 1: And then has only continued in recent years with you know,

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Speaker 1: critiques about the CGIs CG that does make sense? It's

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Speaker 1: mess blah blah blah, it's blanned. Many many criticisms of

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Speaker 1: ant Man in the Wasp fall along this similar vein,

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Speaker 1: And then you look at Victoria Alonzo's title and it's

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Speaker 1: very clear those things fall directly under her purview. And

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Speaker 1: when you couple that with the strongly negative stories about

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Speaker 1: the way that the kind of working conditions that the

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Speaker 1: VFX workers have to deal with, and I think you know,

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Speaker 1: any media company of any kind of scale, and certainly

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Speaker 1: one of Disney size, is very concerned about negative stories.

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Speaker 1: And at some point it's probably is enough. And on furthermore,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's also the angle that like, hey, if

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Speaker 1: you continue to like treat the VFX workers like this,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna make them form a union. And if they

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Speaker 1: form a union, we're gonna end up spending a lot

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Speaker 1: more money on these fucking movies. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that is potentially an angle as well. You know, I

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Speaker 1: just think, you know, you know, when people are saying,

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Speaker 1: you're a you're a movie studio, you make you make movies.

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Speaker 1: It's a visual medium, and yeah, visual medium. And when

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Speaker 1: people for seven years have been saying, why do these

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Speaker 1: movies look like shit? And that's your job, I would

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Speaker 1: imagine at some point, like those stories accrue and people

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Speaker 1: start asking questions. Add on to that, you know, the

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Speaker 1: much talked about kind of bottom falling out of various

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Speaker 1: streaming companies. Uh, you know, financial statements, Disney stock tanking,

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Speaker 1: lots of people getting laid off left and right. Politically speaking, here,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's tons of below the line regular workers

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Speaker 1: who are going to be you know, losing their paychecks.

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Speaker 1: Here is a high profile executive. It probably plays pretty

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Speaker 1: well too, like if you want to be cynical about it,

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Speaker 1: but I agree with you. I think this probably if

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Speaker 1: I had to guess, and we don't know, but if

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Speaker 1: I had to guess, it's it has to do with

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Speaker 1: the constant criticism and perhaps and perhaps acknowledged criticism of

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Speaker 1: the VFX and the fact that you know, the treatment

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Speaker 1: of the VFX trades people is essentially backing them into

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Speaker 1: a corner to the point that they're going to form

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Speaker 1: a union, which again is going to is going to

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Speaker 1: cost Disney and other studios a lot of money. If

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Speaker 1: that Indie doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Great for the workers, less great for the corporations, as

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Speaker 2: is always the way with the union.

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Speaker 1: No, Mickey, No, don't Mickey. Are you okay? Mickey's going

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Speaker 1: to be at the Disneyland with his pockets turned.

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Speaker 2: Down pennies and dust pennies.

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Speaker 1: Anybody's any changed Mickey's my sandwich.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I think I think you summed it all up.

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Speaker 2: I also think like something that you keyed into that

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Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know. As we say, most of these

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Speaker 2: reports are very unspeculative because that's not the nature of journalism,

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Speaker 2: but we are here to talk about it in the

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Speaker 2: context of the wider world as we know it. I

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Speaker 2: also think like we are in a dicey financial time,

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Speaker 2: and I think that all of these studios are trying

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Speaker 2: to save money, and I think that these movies cost

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Speaker 2: an unbelievable amount of money, and yet they're still not

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Speaker 2: paying people well enough to make them, and this is

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Speaker 2: just a yeah, it's a confluence of drama. Maybe we'll

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Speaker 2: be wrong, Maybe I'll turn out that the Victoria chose

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Speaker 2: to leave of her own varition, But well, we'll surely

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Speaker 2: find out more.

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Speaker 1: So, pay is one issue, and an important one. But

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, the weight of all those stories

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Speaker 1: made clear to me that it's it's kind of less

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Speaker 1: about paying, more about time and the amount of things

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Speaker 1: they're asked to do in a certain period of time.

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Speaker 1: And I think when you really look at that, that

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Speaker 1: calls into question if indeed this firing is because of

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Speaker 1: this issue, that would cause you to think about planning.

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Speaker 1: Can we not plan this better? Can we not organize

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Speaker 1: this better so that people aren't working around the clock,

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Speaker 1: and in working around the clock getting really pissed off,

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Speaker 1: and in getting pissed off either refusing to work with

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Speaker 1: us anymore or unionizing to the point that our bottom

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Speaker 1: line gets fucking hammered. It seems to me that that

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Speaker 1: would be a reasonable it's a reasonable assumption to make.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to be very interested to see if

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Speaker 2: this kind of begins, like a domino effect of changing

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Speaker 2: the way that these movies are made even slightly because

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Speaker 2: I think a lot about the fact that they were

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Speaker 2: doing reshoots fam Man and the Wasp three weeks before

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Speaker 2: it came out in LA and we know that one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest critiques, Like you say, it's about these

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Speaker 2: eighteen hour days, it's about three months with no days off,

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Speaker 2: But it's also about you know, the term that they

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Speaker 2: use pixel fucking where Marvel will come back to you

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Speaker 2: a week before the movie is meant to come out

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Speaker 2: and say, hey, we need you to change this one

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Speaker 2: tiny thing, or actually, we need you to redo the

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Speaker 2: whole ending, and basically this is what it needs to

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Speaker 2: look like, So can you do that? So I think

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Speaker 2: there is a need for a more sustainable version of

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Speaker 2: how they make these big blockbuster movies, not just superhero movies,

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Speaker 2: like any kind of big spectacle CG movies. I also

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Speaker 2: think they need to reconsider the way that they use

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Speaker 2: and the amount that they use like CG in these movies.

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Speaker 2: I think that's beginning to stop people from connecting in

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Speaker 2: the way that they are presenting these stories. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'll be interested to see, but I was not expecting

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Speaker 2: this on my bingo coot of things that would happen

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three certainly not.

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Speaker 1: Up next the airlock. Get ready to show off your

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Speaker 1: of the airlock and into the final chapters of the

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Speaker 1: Last of Us video game to continue and end our

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Speaker 1: Last of Us video game coverage, and this conversation is

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Speaker 1: really going to be about the differences between the emotional

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Speaker 1: impacts of the ending of the game versus the show.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things that really we took

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Speaker 1: away from from the conversation in our discord and kind

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Speaker 1: of reading the kind of conversation on the internet and

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Speaker 1: also watching the show and just taking stock of our

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Speaker 1: own hearts, was that the show it's very hard to

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Speaker 1: come away with anything else than being strongly pro jole

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Speaker 1: at the end of the Last of Us. And that

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Speaker 1: is a really starkly contrast with I think the game,

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Speaker 1: which even even the most like you know, like pro

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Speaker 1: Joel reading of the events at the end of the

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Speaker 1: game paints him in a much grayer light than he

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Speaker 1: is in the show where he and and I think

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Speaker 1: one of the things that that really interests us is like,

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Speaker 1: why is that the case? Why is that the case?

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Speaker 1: So that's what this conversation is going to be about.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with the last kind of big two

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Speaker 1: movements at the college, where Joel and Ellie go initially

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Speaker 1: to look for the fireflies before running into some of

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Speaker 1: David's raiders and getting into the whole cannibalistic Hulla Blue

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Speaker 1: over at Silver Lake, and then finally the final movement

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Speaker 1: at Salt Lake. I think the first thing I would

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Speaker 1: say is that this the video game. We gave Marlene

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Speaker 1: a lot of shit, We gave the fireflies a lot

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Speaker 1: of shit. And and I came away from my play

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Speaker 1: of the game and my rewatch of the cinematics over

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Speaker 1: the last week really feeling how long the fireflies had

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Speaker 1: been at this trying to find a cure. We go

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Speaker 1: to the college, you know, and you know, when we

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Speaker 1: go to the college in the show, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of monkeys around. You see some kind of like scattered

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Speaker 1: you know, boxes and some stuff pinned up on the

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Speaker 1: what but you really don't know what it is. In

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Speaker 1: the game, you're interacting with all this stuff, and one

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Speaker 1: of the things you see is like an X ray

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Speaker 1: of a person's brain showing the progression of the fungal growth.

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Speaker 1: And then you get all those MP three recorders with

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Speaker 1: scientist with a scientist, one scientist in particular, talking about

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Speaker 1: the kind of arduous process budding that their heads up

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Speaker 1: against this concrete wall of trying to find this cure.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that really was important context for the

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Speaker 1: emotional reveals that happened at the end of the game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. I think that one of the

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Speaker 2: most interesting things on replaying it and on thinking about

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Speaker 2: the different narrative form of the game and the TV show.

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Speaker 2: One the TV show, you're in there for you know,

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Speaker 2: nine hours, let's say, as an estimation, right in the game,

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Speaker 2: you are there for forty fifty hours with these characters,

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Speaker 2: with these people and you learn things in a completely

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Speaker 2: different way. I think the Salt Lake City University section

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Speaker 2: is a great example because in the show we really

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Speaker 2: just go there so they can understand that the fireflies

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Speaker 2: have moved on. You see the map, Oh, it looks

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Speaker 2: like it's going to Salt Lake City, you know. But

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Speaker 2: in the game, you're exploring, you're seeing that this was

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Speaker 2: a place that people lived, that they worked, that they

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Speaker 2: dedicated time to, that they had to leave, And you

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Speaker 2: even get like a moment you pull the great clip

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Speaker 2: from one of the MP three's where it's like one

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Speaker 2: of the doctors is considering what to do with the

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Speaker 2: monkeys they've been testing on and he chooses to let

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Speaker 2: them go. He doesn't want to kill them because they've

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Speaker 2: made this sacrifice. Even that gives more humanity to the

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Speaker 2: fireflies and the doctors and this kind of empathy we

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Speaker 2: never get to see from them in the show. Also,

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Speaker 2: they're missing for a lot of the show, whereas in

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Speaker 2: the game, the fireflies are a constant and whether it's

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Speaker 2: you other people talking about them. And I just think

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Speaker 2: that there's something really interesting about thinking about ways that

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Speaker 2: we get information in stories, because I do think that

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Speaker 2: finding you know the firefly pendance and learning the different

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Speaker 2: firefly names, and also then finding out there's different stories

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Speaker 2: of these characters through MP three recordings, whether it's Marlene

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Speaker 2: or whether it's you know this doctor. It gives you

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Speaker 2: a much more interactive and holistic sense of who they are.

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Speaker 2: I think that we didn't have time and also is

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Speaker 2: impossible to do in a game. In a TV show,

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Speaker 2: no one wants to see Joel going around listening to

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Speaker 2: multiple MP three is. It doesn't make it doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 3: It's just a hokey way to see that one is

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Speaker 3: doing doing exposition, like nobody wants that, right, But like

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Speaker 3: in the game, it actually works so well and it

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Speaker 3: feels it adds more texture and grit, And I think

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Speaker 3: that is something that I really.

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Speaker 2: Took away in terms of how we end up in

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Speaker 2: the game feeling a lot more compromised about what Joel does,

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Speaker 2: Whereas in the show, even people who were like, wow,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of fucked up, you're still like, well, what

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Speaker 2: would the fireflies do? And how do we know that

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Speaker 2: it is? Here? We get so much more of an

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Speaker 2: idea that this is an ongoing project, that they might

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Speaker 2: actually have an idea about what they're doing well. I think.

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Speaker 1: It comes down to I think the difference in emotional

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Speaker 1: impact of the game verst Show comes down to for

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Speaker 1: me one main thing, and that is in the game

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Speaker 1: I was I never ever doubted that this would result

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Speaker 1: in the cure, that Ellie undergoing this deadly surgery to

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Speaker 1: remove pieces of her brain would absolutely result in the cure.

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Speaker 1: And part of that is one the kind of, as

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Speaker 1: we've said, video game logic of you know, the.

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Speaker 2: Acceptance of super science.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the logic of the genre, right, Like, you play

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Speaker 1: a video game and it absolutely makes sense to you

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Speaker 1: that you are the hero that is that is going

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Speaker 1: to save the world like that, That is just kind

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Speaker 1: of what the genre is, right. And also, as you said,

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Speaker 1: this kind of the humanity of the fireflies, and a

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Speaker 1: word that keeps coming up, and a notion that keeps

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Speaker 1: coming up in these last two chapters with everything with

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Speaker 1: the Fireflies is sacrifice. Like that voice memo you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: the doctor says of the monkeys, you know, uh, everybody

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Speaker 1: wants to kill you, guys, I say, screw that, who

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Speaker 1: made a bigger sacrifice than you? Right? And then shortly

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Speaker 1: after that he gets bitten by a fucking tainted monkey

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Speaker 1: made choice came for me the way, but it just

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Speaker 1: gives you, like, think about, uh, the emotional toll that

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Speaker 1: this person must have taken to get to a place

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Speaker 1: where here's all these monkeys potentially infected with this deadly

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Speaker 1: virus that has absolutely devastated the globe and caused untold

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Speaker 1: heartbreak and pain and trauma, and you're sitting here injecting

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Speaker 1: them with cordysips fucking twenty four hours a day. It's

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Speaker 1: horrific to the point where a scientist is just like,

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Speaker 1: I can't after that, I can't do anymore, Like.

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Speaker 2: I'm not done to you, I can't kill you.

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Speaker 1: And that really brought it home, like, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when we talked about the show, and we talked about

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Speaker 1: the kind of like slap dash project the Fireflies is

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Speaker 1: put together.

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Speaker 2: Mad scientist in his lab with his lap this.

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Speaker 1: Felt most definitely not that, you know. And then there's

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Speaker 1: a second MP three recorder in which the doctor has

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Speaker 1: apparently been left behind, probably because he got bitten by

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Speaker 1: the monkey. It is as the fuck it's stay there now,

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Speaker 1: and he's talking about you know, he's just kind of

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Speaker 1: like talking as a kind of last will you know,

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Speaker 1: into another voice recorder, and he is the frustration of

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Speaker 1: it all has finally gotten to him as he's nearing

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Speaker 1: the end of not just this project, but it's probably

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Speaker 1: his life. And he says, a giant waste of time

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Speaker 1: talking about this project to find a cure. If you're

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Speaker 1: looking for the others, they all return to Saint Mary's

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Speaker 1: Hospital and in Salt Lake City you'll find them there,

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Speaker 1: still trying to save the world. He says, like very

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Speaker 1: very bitterly. And then you get to Salt Lake City

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Speaker 1: with that hanging over you. Of I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: the fireflies have really, really, really been trying to crack

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Speaker 1: to do this, and what's the missingredient? It's Ellie.

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Speaker 2: Well. Also, I think the other thing that's really great

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Speaker 2: in that moment with those two MP three's is you

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Speaker 2: have the man who understands the sacrifice, who thinks it's

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Speaker 2: worth it.

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Speaker 1: Then you have the.

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Speaker 2: Person who's more along the lines of Joel. This in

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Speaker 2: Joel's mind, that MP three in the game, it can

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Speaker 2: justify everything that he's worried because they're like, it is

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Speaker 2: a giant waste of time. These little moments add so

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Speaker 2: much to that kind of internal battle.

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Speaker 1: You're so right, it's not just a leap that he

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Speaker 1: makes nothing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's that kind of those little narrative beasts.

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Speaker 2: And I just want to say, like this, if you've

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Speaker 2: listened to us talk about the show, you don't need us,

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Speaker 2: since we love the show. Like I think they did

347
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Speaker 2: such a brilliant job of adapting it, and I actually

348
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Speaker 2: love the choices that they make. Even though I was

349
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Speaker 2: shocked by how kind of less morally gray and like

350
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Speaker 2: bleak the ending felt, I still really think they did

351
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Speaker 2: a great job, and I think adapt I think the

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Speaker 2: game is incredibly hard, But in terms of this specific decision,

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Speaker 2: it's these little moments that teach you so much about

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Speaker 2: Joel and the journey he's on, and kind of you

355
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: can pick up and foreshadow the things. Even in that

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Speaker 2: moment where the doctor talks about the monkey and says,

357
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Speaker 2: like who's made a great sacrifice than you? That's all

358
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Speaker 2: Ellie's gonna make the greatest sacrifice of all. There's so

359
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Speaker 2: much great for shadowing, and it really puts you in

360
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Speaker 2: the position where at the end you're kind of going

361
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Speaker 2: back through everything and you're like, wait a minute, like

362
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Speaker 2: what happened? Would why would he do this? Whereas, like

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Speaker 2: you said, in the show, you know, especially people who

364
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Speaker 2: hadn't played the game, they were just like, yeah, Joel

365
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 2: was right, yeah, Like why wouldn't he do that? Whereas

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Speaker 2: when in the game, it's like it's a shadow of

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Speaker 2: the Colossus level turn, like you do not see it

368
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Speaker 2: coming and you do not get a choice, and also

369
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Speaker 2: unbe real. Joel is a brutal person in this game.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about it a lot. He kills so many people,

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Speaker 2: even though him and Elie build this relationship. I think

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Speaker 2: this is another thing on the show versus the game.

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Speaker 2: In the game, there is I feel like the world

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Speaker 2: is a lot more full of distractions and other people.

375
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Speaker 2: The show is so brilliantly focused on Joel and Alli's

376
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: relationship that you don't question it. But again, in the game,

377
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Speaker 2: I've killed five hundred people by the time I get

378
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 2: to that, Like, what one more little girl? If it

379
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Speaker 2: means you can save the world, do you know? And

380
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Speaker 2: that's I think why those choices feel so much heavier.

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 1: A lot of our you know, obviously, our our finale

383
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Speaker 1: episode was heavy on the criticism of Marlene and I

384
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Speaker 1: and I want to just I stand by everything that

385
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: I said about Marlene, and I think a lot of

386
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Speaker 1: my disappointment of Marlene and the frustration and what she

387
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Speaker 1: did is because what she's setting out to do with

388
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Speaker 1: the Fireflies are trying to do is such a lofty

389
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: and noble goal and it's so worth doing, you know,

390
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Speaker 1: finding a cure for this vicious disease that has totally

391
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Speaker 1: devastated the humanity, bringing democracy back to a country that

392
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Speaker 1: has been shattered and is being ruled by you know,

393
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Speaker 1: people desperate people with guns like that is that is

394
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Speaker 1: a worthy and lofty goal, and she was going about

395
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Speaker 1: it in such a competent fashion. And then you get

396
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Speaker 1: to the game version of Marlene. And when the first

397
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Speaker 1: thing I noticed is when Joel has is he wakes

398
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Speaker 1: up in the room with Marlene after being captured by

399
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Speaker 1: the fireflies, and they get captured in a slightly different ways.

400
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Speaker 1: They almost drown after kind of trying to move through

401
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Speaker 1: you know, like a tunnel. And immediately and this cut

402
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: just a part of the performance, you know, Tory Baker's

403
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: performance in merl Dandrews's performance. But there's immediately a kind

404
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: of warmth between Joel and Marlene, like she is so

405
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Speaker 1: relieved that he's there, she says, I pretty much. She

406
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Speaker 1: talks about how first how hard it was to come

407
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: across the country, how many people the lost, and she's

408
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: really sad about it. She says, I pretty much lost everything.

409
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Speaker 1: Then you show up and somehow we find you just

410
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: in time to save her. Maybe it was meant to be.

411
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Speaker 1: And then she goes on to say, as Joel realizes, like,

412
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: what's going to happen, he says, but but Cordyceps is

413
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Speaker 1: in the brain. She's like yeah. And then he's like,

414
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: you know, why are you letting this happen? And then

415
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: she says something that I think really told me why

416
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: she's doing this right, And there'll be further things that

417
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: will back up. I think her choice why it's it's

418
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: not the right choice, but I understand why she made it.

419
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Speaker 1: And she and she said, you know, Joel says, why

420
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Speaker 1: are you letting this happen? Letting this happen? Which I

421
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: think is important, even Joel right by saying that he's

422
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: not saying why are you doing this? No, he even

423
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: Joel in this moment is recognizing that there are other

424
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: forces at work, that there's this entire firefly organization that

425
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: is agency in and of itself. Right, she's a leader,

426
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: but not the leader. And there's you know, political considerations

427
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: going on here. And then she pretty much confirms that.

428
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: She says, because this isn't about me or even her,

429
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Speaker 1: there is no other choice here. And when you think

430
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: about the desperation in that scientist's voice, melos how long

431
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: they've been at this, how they were she says, like,

432
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: we thought we were done, We thought we're never going

433
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: to find it, like and then and then Ellie shows up.

434
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: And you've got all these scientists that have been working

435
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: for years to try and crack this code, and you've

436
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: got all these soldiers that have been supporting them, some

437
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: of them dying, getting infected, dying to raiders, et cetera,

438
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: in the hopes that one day they'd be able to

439
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: find the missing ingredient and and and be able to

440
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: manufacture a cure, and then it falls into their laps.

441
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: I don't think Marlene had the clout to say, hold on, wait,

442
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: don't do this surgery, Let's do some other stuff first.

443
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: I think the doctors. And there's gonna be other evidence

444
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: that is going to bear out what I'm saying, But

445
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: I think the doctors had been like, we have taste

446
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: down every fucking dead end street, We've pulled on every thread,

447
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: We've done everything. This is the only way. And I

448
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: think Marlene had there was nothing she could do. I

449
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: don't think she could have stood in the way of

450
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: any of these people that wanted desperately to do this surgery.

451
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: And that, to me is the difference between game Marlene

452
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: and show Marlene.

453
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's such a great point. And the

454
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 2: other big thing I think, which is again is just

455
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: one of those ultimate conundrums of adapting a game to

456
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: a show, is especially if you have someone like Neil

457
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: Druckman who's such a brilliant storyteller who wants to expand

458
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: and add these parts of the law in the Cannon.

459
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that I found interesting

460
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: about adaptation was the confirmation of a very popular fan

461
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: theory and kind of this expansion on why Ellie was immune,

462
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 2: which was that her mother got bitten and kind of

463
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: like a blade origin story, right, and now she's a

464
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: day walker, I mean, And what I think is so

465
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: interesting about that is because we know that Marlene knows,

466
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 2: and because in the room in the hospital where she

467
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: tells Joel about the surgery. She is the one who

468
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 2: expands on how Ellie is immune. In the game, it's

469
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: a voice memo from a doctor who kind of says,

470
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: like Marlene was right, the girl's infection is like nothing

471
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. IMP want to note the cause of

472
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: her immunity is uncertain, as we've seen in all past cases,

473
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: and he sort of goes on to talk about why

474
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: it probably would have worked by making Marlene complicit in

475
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: not only the knowledge that Ellie was likely always immune

476
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: or had a potential to be immune, but then having

477
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: her be the reason. Yeah, the person who shares the

478
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 2: reason to Joel, Oh, she's immune, it's because of you know,

479
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: she's probably been immune since birth. It gives Marlene a

480
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: much more sinister edge. In the game, there is kind

481
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: of this reveal that Marlene has been protecting Ellie because

482
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: she knew Ellie's mother and it's all through love. And

483
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: when she tells Joel, I do understand what's going on

484
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: in the game, she says, I was Ellie's mum's best friend.

485
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing, and you know I've looked after her since

486
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: she was little. I always promised to look after That

487
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: feels like a plea of somebody going through grief going

488
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: through something the same. In the show, it feels like

489
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: she's trying to sell Joel something because she wants to

490
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: use Ellie for this purpose. And I think even though

491
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: I love the acknowledgment of how Ellie's immune, and I

492
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: think it's actually a really important addition, because I think

493
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: for a lot of people that could have been almost

494
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: like a plotthole if it wasn't wasn't explained in the show.

495
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: I do think it gives Marlene a more sinister edge

496
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: that makes it harder to empathize with her or feel

497
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: like she's doing things in an altruistic way, or yeah,

498
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: it gives her more. It feels like she has more power,

499
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: more agency. It feels like she was the one who

500
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: told the doctor, oh, this is what happened with Ellie.

501
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: It feels like she is the one who wanted Joel

502
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 2: to go there. It loses, like you said, that feeling

503
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: you get in the game of this kind of momentum

504
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: that overtaken Marlene and any plan she had. She doesn't

505
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: want Ellie to die in the game, but there's no choice,

506
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: and also, who would you know? It's the greater good here.

507
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: Marlene just in the show is kind of just like, well, sorry,

508
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: we're gonna put her in surgery and nothing you can

509
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: do about it. And it's just it doesn't It hits

510
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 2: in a more villainous way.

511
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: I think to your point when when you stack what

512
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: you're saying on and I think you're exactly right when

513
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: you stack that on top of the kind of way

514
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: the conversation that Marlene had with Ellie early in the

515
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: shows that seemed to suggest that Marlene had been like

516
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: pulling some strings in terms of like getting Ellie placed

517
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: at FEDRA. She's been keeping her eye on her all

518
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: these kind of things. It makes it seem like much

519
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: more of a plot. And then you get to the

520
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: end and the kind of alacrity with which she is,

521
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, like hustling Joel out the door to do

522
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: this thing, feels it feels a lot more like she

523
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: is driving these events, unless that that they are happening

524
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: to her now, you know oftentimes in and that's not

525
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: worse or better, it's just different and it makes Marlene

526
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: a different character. But I think that's exactly the thing

527
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: you're you're you're talking about. Like even the way she

528
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: says you know, in the in the game, she says

529
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: almost pleading with Joel. She says like she's not going

530
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: to feel anything, like don't like and and the way

531
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: it lands is like she's almost soothing herself about it,

532
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: because as she said, there's no there's no choice. I

533
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: don't have a choice in it. But then when she

534
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: says the way she says to Joel like in the show,

535
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: like don't worry, I didn't tell out. Yeah, yeah, she's out.

536
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: She won't know what's happening. The fact that she then

537
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter says, well, what would what choice would she

538
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: make Joel? It makes her a hypocrite. And again that's

539
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: not worse or better or any it's just like a

540
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: different way to tell the story. And I would argue,

541
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: if you have Paeder Pascal as your lead role, you

542
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: definitely want the audience to be like Joel, go get

543
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 1: them like doing the right thing, like you want you

544
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: just want to root for that guy. But that's why

545
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: the game version is a lot more, is a lot greyer,

546
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: because you can sense, you know, texturally, how hard everybody

547
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: has been working to make this happen, to find a cure,

548
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: and how this all these people who are experts in this,

549
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: unlike the way we felt about the doctor, who again

550
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: is like where did this fucking guy come from? You know,

551
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: like we've seen all the infrastructure now through the voice meamos,

552
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: through the different hardware. You're creeping around the you know,

553
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: the college campus, and then you're you know, you're moving

554
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: through the Salt Lake City laboratory and hospital, and you're

555
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: seeing other stuff, and you get the feeling that these

556
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: people kind of know what they're doing. Now well after Marleon,

557
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: let's Joel go. Still a bad decision, obviously, but I

558
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: think one that plays a little bit differently in the game.

559
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: She says, don't waste this gift, Joel, and you could,

560
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: as many people in the discord talked about, like, you know,

561
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: part of the reason that she lets him go in

562
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: the show is because she's grateful to him, and I

563
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: think that's right, and I think that's a direct translation

564
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: for the game, and I think it's you understand it

565
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: more in the game, and it's also that you know,

566
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: there's big things afoot, like let's get this guy out

567
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: of here. And then so as Joel has made his break,

568
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: he's killed a couple of fireflies and he's creeping around

569
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: like being pursued by them. He then finds another voice memo,

570
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: and I think this voice memo is really important for

571
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: what because it absolutely locks in the kind of like

572
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: supporting evidence of the competence of the Firefly doctors. And

573
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: it lets you know like how thoughtful they are actually

574
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: about this thing, even though they are rushing to do it.

575
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: And the doctor voice memo goes quote, Marlene was right.

576
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: The girl's infection is nothing like I've seen the cause

577
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: of her immunity is uncertain. And I'm going to read

578
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: all this jargon because I actually think it's important that

579
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: they put this in here. As we've seen in all

580
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: past cases, the antigenetic titers of the patient's cordyceps remain

581
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: high in both serum and cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken

582
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: from the patient rapidly grow cordyceps in fungal media, and

583
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: the lab will stop here. This is one of our

584
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: critiques right of the show, was like, why don't you

585
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: start with blood tests? Why don't you do all these others?

586
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: They've done it, they tried it, Yeah, they've been trying it. However,

587
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: it continues White blood cells, including percentages and absolute counts,

588
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro inflammatory cytokines,

589
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of

590
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: fungal growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany

591
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: the prodrome of aggression and effective patients. We must find

592
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're

593
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: about to hit a milestone in human history equal to

594
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles,

595
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring

596
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: the human race back into control of its destiny. All

597
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: of our sacrifices in the hundreds of men and women

598
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: who've bled for this cause or worse will not be

599
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: in vain. Now, imagine that kind of emotion amongst the fireflies.

600
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: Who's going to be able to tell them no, Like,

601
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: I just don't think Marlene could have done it. I

602
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: don't think she could have done it.

603
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: I also think this like is a really great way

604
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: to set up the weight of what Joel's choice means

605
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: devestating because you hear this and you already there's hundreds

606
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: of people who have sacrificed their lives for this, let alone,

607
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: all the millions of people who've already died from corterceps.

608
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: That for some reason just brings it home so much

609
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: harder that when Joel takes Ellie out and kills the

610
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: fireflies and kills the doctor, you feel that weight of oh,

611
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: that could have saved millions of lives. Yeah, you, And

612
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: I have to say, Look, I've always been a slight

613
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: Joel apologist, just because I do think I think that

614
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: there is something very interesting and analogous here about like

615
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: real life testing on humans and that like an agency

616
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: that Ellie wasn't given. So I always found this to

617
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: be less of a villainous decision and more of this

618
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: really interesting complex question about who gets to live who

619
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: gets to die. But in the game, the weight is there.

620
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: In the show, as we said, you know, I feel

621
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: like you really come out of this like it probably

622
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna work. And even if it was, like they

623
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: didn't sell you on how hard it was, you felt

624
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: like you were in this kind of junk together surgery.

625
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: There was no blood tests, there was no conversation, and

626
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 2: I understand that they kind of they they distilled a

627
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: little bit of that science into what Marlene says to Joel,

628
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: but I don't necessarily think it hits that same way.

629
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: And when you hear the way that the doctor feels

630
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: about what they could do a milestone in human history

631
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: equal to the dissol of pens.

632
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, and then to have Joel.

633
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: Ignore that and just kill everyone that's very hardcore. That

634
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: is like a brutal And again, this is that different.

635
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily a narrative storyline. You have to pick

636
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: up the recorder, you have to hear these These are

637
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: things that build on top of the experience that you're having.

638
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: Plus again, like we said, the nature of being in

639
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: Joel's person and being the person who has to kill

640
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 2: all these things, that's very different from just watching it

641
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 2: on the screen. So that makes it feel a lot

642
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: heavier too. But I do think it's a really interesting

643
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: change because by this point you are so in, you know,

644
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: you're so in on Joel and Ellie's journey, on the

645
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 2: sacrifices they've made together so much the show that it

646
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: felt so much easier to do in the game. You're like, well,

647
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 2: I get it, but there's lots of butts in the show.

648
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: I feel like it's more just like a j'all did

649
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: what he had to do? No, but you know, but

650
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: the game is always this huge well he could all that.

651
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: There's a lot more questions, and I think it comes

652
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: from these really brilliant little narrative devices like the memos.

653
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: And you know, there's another part of this conversation too,

654
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: and you hear the question a lot regarding both versions

655
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: of the story game and show, Okay, your perspective on

656
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: how you feel about Joel's choice is going to be

657
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: different depending on whether you're a parent or not. Right,

658
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: you hear them a lot like if you're a parent,

659
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: it absolutely makes sense in both versions, and I agree

660
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: with that. But I also think that there's a really

661
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: interesting thing that you're kind of talking about, and I

662
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 1: think it's it, And I'm fascinated in how this part

663
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 1: of the conversation never or rarely comes up. I don't

664
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: want to say never rarely comes up, and that is

665
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: you are the parent of a child who is infected.

666
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: You're watching them waste away and turn into this like

667
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: aggressive killer zombie, you know, or you've watched that happen

668
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: to someone you love, And what would you feel if

669
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: you learned that there was a cure. But then someone

670
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: came along and for that cure to happen, right, a

671
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: surgery would need to be performed on someone, and that

672
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: surgery would probably kill them. But everyone, like your child

673
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: would be cured, your friend's children would be cured, future generations,

674
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: for all time to come. There would be a cure. Right,

675
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: And then you hear that not only is that person,

676
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: that immune person lost to the people who are trying

677
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: to find the cure now, but all the knowledge, the

678
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: hard earned scientific and medical knowledge of how to do this,

679
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: has been wiped out by like one guy. People would

680
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: hate that guy one hundred percent. They would be like,

681
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: that's a kill that guy. That guy's a criminal. He's

682
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: causing my child to get sick and die, Like I

683
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: hate that guy. Yeah, that's a part of this too

684
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: that I think definitely, it is much more kind of

685
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: like textual in the game version.

686
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also think you bring up an interesting point

687
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: even before you get to Joel killing everyone. Right, If

688
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 2: you're asking this question, you're saying, if my child was Ellie,

689
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: what would I do? I mean, I have nieces and

690
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: nephews and I probably would definitely have done what Joel did.

691
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, let's flip it on its head.

692
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: And talk about what if, like you said, you had

693
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: an infected child, but to cure that child, all you

694
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: had to do was kill one person in a surgery

695
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: to create a cure. Even on that base level, if

696
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: we take it outside of a million people, that is

697
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: basically a really interesting reflection of Joel's choice, and Joel

698
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 2: chooses to kill many people to save Ellie. If Joel

699
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: was infected and he had a choice to kill somebody

700
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: or force somebody through a surgery to save Ellie, he

701
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: would probably do it. So I think it's a really

702
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: interesting kind of raises edge that they balance on him.

703
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: Marley X ray Vision will be back and we're back.

704
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: So as Joel is kind of creeping around, continuing to

705
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: kill fireflies left and right, you overhear some of this firefly,

706
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: the fireflies talking to each other and one of the masks,

707
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: who is this guy? And another answer is he brought

708
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: the kid all the way from Pittsburgh. Marlene insisted on

709
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: questioning him herself. This little snippet of dialogue again, it

710
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: opened another crack into like Marlene's actions, and that is,

711
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: if you buy in two, Marlene is is does not

712
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: have the clout to stand in the way of this

713
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: the decision to perform the surgery on Ellie. Everybody's gung

714
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: ho for it. There's even if she said no, don't

715
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: do it, that people would just do it anyway. And

716
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: and if she did that, like her life would probably

717
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: be in danger. But the way I read this line

718
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: is that I think she's kind of protecting Joel here,

719
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: Like obviously she's protecting Joel and letting him go, but

720
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: by not letting anybody else talk to him, that seemed

721
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: like she's kind of like hanging her neck out for

722
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: Joel a little bit, like she she kind of like, uh,

723
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: she kind of like hung herself out there to try

724
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: and get Joel out of there safely considering what do

725
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: you do for her.

726
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 2: It's definitely very interesting because one of our biggest critiques

727
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: was like, why would they like Billy club them? Surely

728
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: they would know they were coming right in the show.

729
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 2: But it's really funny how in the game there's kind

730
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: of this. It almost feels more like Mollye's like paranoia

731
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: to protect Ellie and Joel and to kind of keep

732
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: their mission a secret is why she doesn't kind of

733
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: let everyone know. I also like think this is really

734
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 2: good world building because as we know, they're constantly having

735
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 2: to recruit fireflies because they always die. And I kind

736
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: of like the idea, right, I just kind of like

737
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 2: the idea that these are just some new guys, so like,

738
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 2: why the fuck would they know because they're just hanging around,

739
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: like and it's they're not going to be there for

740
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: very long. But yeah, it's definitely very interesting replaying it

741
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: how differently these little moments play when you have this

742
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: much more decompressed amount of time to kind of explore

743
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: and feel the world. I mean that whole that the

744
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: finale of The Last US is it's the shortest episode

745
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,959
Speaker 2: of the season, so it really like.

746
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 1: And in terms of dialogue, I mean it feels ripped.

747
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: I haven't done a line by line. I'm sure somebody has,

748
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: but it feels essentially ripped from the game. You know

749
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: that the final twenty minutes is basically, you know, almost

750
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: directly for the game. So Joel makes it into the

751
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 1: surgical theater. First of all, there are fireflies posted outside

752
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: the door. He manages to flank them and he kills him.

753
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: And then when he gets in there, the surgeon says,

754
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: I won't let you take her. At which point in

755
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: the show, Joel just shoots him. Uh, and then he continues,

756
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: this is our future. Think of all the lives we'll save,

757
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: and then Joel shoots him. Now part of why this

758
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: is shocking, and we've said this before, but for me,

759
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, video games are it's about agency, it's about interactivity,

760
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: it's about immersion. You are the character. I am Joel

761
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: when I'm playing this game, and after spending X amount

762
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: of hours depending you know, your mileage may vary depending

763
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: on how hard the game was for you. But after

764
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: spending hours and hours after work, but you know, before

765
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: going to work during a break, you know, stealing minutes

766
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: and hours here and there and here and there, working,

767
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, arduously towards this goal of delivering Ellie to

768
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: this place where we can save the world from this

769
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: virus talks. Suddenly have that choice taken from you and

770
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: you have to pull this guy. That's another part of

771
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: the emotional impact of the game that is slightly different. Again,

772
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: not better or worse, but just it. It's because you

773
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: were taking part in this story and you and at

774
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: least from my perspective, I'm thinking, like like any other

775
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: video game, be it Halo or BioShock or whatever, like, Oh,

776
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to save the world. Now, we're going to

777
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: do it, yep, And instead I go on a murder spree.

778
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: And that is a It's a really shocking and powerful

779
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: subversion that I think also is strangely one of the

780
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: most It's one of the It depicts violence in a

781
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: way that really asks you to think about what it costs,

782
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: even though obviously this is a video game. These are

783
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: not real people dying. But I've it's rare that I've

784
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: played a game in which you kill people where I've

785
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: felt the deaths as much as you feel them in

786
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: this game, and you really feel it in that moment

787
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: when Joel, you as Joel, shoots this doctor and you

788
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: have no choice but to do it. They're not even

789
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: to spare him or don't spare It's like kill the guy.

790
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's such a great point, especially because

791
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: it's the lesson that they took from the game and

792
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: put into the show that I love the most. If

793
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 2: the game made you feel the weight of the deaths,

794
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 2: which it especially does by the time you get here,

795
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: if you didn't before because you were shooting, I have

796
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: to say when I first played it, I definitely was

797
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 2: more just like I'm getting through it, I'm playing the game.

798
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: When I started replaying it for the show and for

799
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: the pod, it kind of blew my mind from the

800
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: very beginning how many people you kill and not Federate agents,

801
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: not infected, but at the beginning, for you, the first

802
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: people you kill are just henchies, like random guys that

803
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: you have to shoot in the head. And even in

804
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 2: that moment and that brutality, I felt that way eight

805
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 2: And what I love. If there's one thing, I mean,

806
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: I love so much about the show, but the one

807
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: thing I think is so brilliant and so responsible and

808
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 2: so interesting is how they took that and translated it

809
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: even in these changes that we're talking about, and the

810
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: way that we feel like maybe the weight of Joel's

811
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 2: choice feels a little less or a little less complex

812
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: in the finale especially, but throughout you feel when he

813
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: kills someone, and in the finale they show you the

814
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: faces of the people that he kills.

815
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: I thought that was a really smart decision to do that,

816
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: to really pay homage to the game. So the way

817
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: the game depicts violence and makes you complicit in the violence,

818
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: like that that last scene where you shoot the doctor,

819
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: that last moment in the surgical theater in the game. Again,

820
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: like all of that is scripted. That could be a cutscene,

821
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: but it's not. It makes you pull the trigger mm hmm,

822
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: without any ability to choose not to put the trigger.

823
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: You have to. You have to kill them. You have

824
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: to aim it at him and shoot them, and you

825
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: can't do anything else.

826
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: And the only way you cannot do it is by

827
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: not playing the game, not finishing the game.

828
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: It's you mentioned Shadows of the Classes. It is like that, Yeah,

829
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: that Shadows of the Classes. I think one of the

830
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: brilliant things about that game is you're killing these big, huge,

831
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: peaceful creatures. And because of the way the mechanics of

832
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: that game, where you have to just press the button

833
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: again and again and again and again and again and

834
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 1: again and again, it's making you really have to kill

835
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: this like you are doing it. It's you you're doing

836
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: You could just like stop doing it, but you won't

837
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: because if you have to kill this thing, why, I

838
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: don't know. They're peaceful and they just start sitting there

839
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 1: happily playing in a field, and you decide to climb

840
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: up their head and kill them. It's it was like

841
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: that kind of emotional impact.

842
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it has that twist where it's like you

843
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 2: think you're the hero and then you discover that you're

844
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 2: the villain, you know, and then I feel like, as

845
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: I've said, Joel is not less sssorily a villain. But

846
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 2: in the game you do realize that in that moment

847
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: where you shoot the doctor, you look at what you've

848
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: done and you think, whoa, I have been complicit, I

849
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: am Joel and I have just like gone through and

850
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: gone down a hospital, which is why I think the

851
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: way that they shot the finale and had that kind

852
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: of Joel disassociating was very again I'll say the word responsible,

853
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 2: because I think in the way that we live now,

854
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 2: in the reality of gun violence is like, if you're

855
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: going to have a character come out of that feeling

856
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 2: vaguely heroic, you can't actually make the violence heroic or

857
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: righteous because it's just too analogous to real life. So

858
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 2: there's like a real interesting balance you have to strike there.

859
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean those to me Shadow Cossus, Last

860
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: of Us, those are like those two biggest unexpected twists

861
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: where you think you're going to save the world you

862
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 2: think you're doing the right thing, but the reality is

863
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 2: that was never the plan.

864
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: When Marlene in fronts Joel in the parking garage, she

865
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: could shoot him, like in the in the show, you're

866
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: wondering why she doesn't. Here she takes her guns off him.

867
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: She puts them up in the air, almost as if

868
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: just you know, to make that plea to him, think

869
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: about all the people that have died, who will die,

870
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: you can, And she says, you can still do the

871
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: right thing. Here she won't feel anything. And so when

872
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: it cuts to the car and you don't know what

873
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: happened and then you see that he just guns her down,

874
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: it really, it really hits. And then of course that

875
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: end conversation is basically the same as the show. And

876
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 1: I think when you get to that point and Joel

877
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: lies right to you know, right to Ellie's face, I think,

878
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: first of all, you know, this is a somewhat of

879
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: a function of the fact that like CG phases her

880
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: a lot less expressive than human faces. Right Whereas when

881
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: when Pedro does it, you feel the anguish how much

882
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: he wants to protect her from any from any and

883
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: all threats, and how important that is to him. How

884
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: much he loves her, how much he means to her

885
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: in terms of a lifeline that has like helped drag

886
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: him out of decades of trauma and pain. You know,

887
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: it's a lot to put on a person. And it's

888
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: almost like his lie to her is a way of

889
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: him kind of realizing that that's a lot to put

890
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: on a person. So I'm going to take that responsibility

891
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: off of He doesn't.

892
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 2: Want to feel the guilt. I don't watch a.

893
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: Huge Yeah, that's a huge part of it. I don't want,

894
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, like, don't worry about like. Whereas in the

895
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: game it plays more as first of all, you know

896
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 1: again cg faces. It feels more like he lies stoneface

897
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: directly to her and I and it plays, at least

898
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: to me, more like I did a thing that I'm

899
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: kind I'm ashamed of that I did. That we were

900
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: going to save the world. But because I love you

901
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: so much, I've decided that the rest of the world

902
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,720
Speaker 1: can go fuck itself, and every child born from now

903
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: until the end of time can go fuck itself if

904
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: they get bitten by accordyceps. Just as long as I

905
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: can have you in my life, Like I'm going to

906
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: be that selfish and I'm going to lie to you

907
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: about it because I'm kind of ashamed that I did that.

908
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 1: But it's worth it and that's a very human response.

909
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: But it's also a much grayer and different response. Yeah.

910
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 2: I think there's this great quote that Sauw pulled from

911
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: a New Yorker article about like adapting The Last of Us,

912
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 2: where they're talking about how drugman's own daughter was born

913
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: during the original games development and the intensity of his

914
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: emotions as a new father helped shape the Last of Us,

915
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: which became He said, an exploration of that charge question,

916
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: how far will the unconditional love of a parent feels

917
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: for their child go? I just think that's all summed

918
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: up in that final moment. It's like, that's the bleakest,

919
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 2: the most far reaching question. It's not even but in

920
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: the game especially, it's not even the killings that's been

921
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 2: done then, it's the continued lie. It's the taking away

922
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 2: the agency you already weren't given and not and being

923
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: so obsessed with protecting your child that you actually end

924
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 2: up putting them in greater danger. Because, like you said,

925
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: we all know, like that's not the that's not the

926
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: end of the fireflies.

927
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're still They're still around. They are gonna make

928
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: themselves heard. Any final thoughts now on having finished the

929
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: game yet again.

930
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: I still just kind of blows my mind that they

931
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: they went that way with that. I think knowing that

932
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 2: Drugman's kid was born makes a lot of sense in

933
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 2: kind of that drive, but to me, it just it

934
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 2: still blows my mind. It's kind of this extrapolation of

935
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 2: the Lone Morph and Cub story, but it has much

936
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: less of a hero's journey. It kind of I find

937
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: it really interesting how there's this almost a vengeance plotline

938
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 2: in the nature of like Joel losing Sarah, but it's

939
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 2: not specific. In usual vengeance storylines, you will have a

940
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: certain person you need to take down, but Joel's grief

941
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 2: and his revenge for losing Sarah kind of encompasses the

942
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: whole world and ends with this horrific final betrayal where

943
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: he makes that choice for Ellie and then takes away

944
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 2: this kind of choice and hope for a cure.

945
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I came away feeling that, you know, the game

946
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: again is a masterpiece, still a masterpiece of the genre

947
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: and well worth picking up if you haven't played the

948
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: remastered version. And I think that what makes it so

949
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 1: great is Truckman and Company managed to find this thing.

950
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: You know, our perceptions, our lives are about our own

951
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,959
Speaker 1: personal perspectives on things, right, and they managed to put

952
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: us so put us so tightly in the one perspective

953
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: in which Joel is kind of a hero, even though

954
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: it's gray, right, he's kind of a hero. Outside of

955
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: that one thin like slice, this little crack through which

956
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: like light shines through. Outside of that, Joel is the

957
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: guy who consigned the world to like you know, endless years,

958
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: if not forever, of the barbarity and sickness and possibly extinction.

959
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: Like he killed everyone. He killed the world, and it's

960
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: tragic and it's heartbreaking for all the people who have

961
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: been trying so hard to find a cure. And that

962
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: is an incredible achievement to put you so tightly into

963
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: the perspective of these two people who love each other

964
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: so dearly that they're willing to just be like fuck

965
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 1: the world, like we want to stay together.

966
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

967
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 2: I also think it's like incredibly brave. That's one of

968
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 2: the things that I think as a storyteller, right, like

969
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: we're used to these stories where to shock someone for

970
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,280
Speaker 2: an ending to be bleak, like especially say like Horror,

971
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: everybody dies, that's your bleak, Like, oh, it's gonna leave.

972
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 2: But how often do you get put in a story where,

973
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 2: especially in a game, you are the driving force of

974
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 2: the game. You believe you have agency, you kill multiple people,

975
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: you use a gaming format that is used every day.

976
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 2: You shoot people, you aim, you do headshots, you stealth.

977
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: They took these things that we recognize and use for

978
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 2: fun in other games, and by the end they're like,

979
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 2: oh no, no, don't you understand, Like people who kill

980
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 2: five six hundred people casually, they're not heroic. They basically

981
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 2: turn around to you and say, you thought that that

982
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 2: was what a hero did. No, that that's not how

983
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 2: a hero behead And here is the proof because this

984
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: is the choice he made. I think it's very I

985
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: think it's extremely meta, and I think it is kind

986
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: of this still. I think it gets better and ages

987
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 2: better every year as we kind of deal with the

988
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 2: realities of gun violence and the way that people use guns,

989
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: especially in America. I just think it's a really brave choice,

990
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 2: and I live to make a story that shocks people

991
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: that much, but in a way that leaves like leaves

992
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 2: you with a feeling. It doesn't shock you with an

993
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: exploit of action of violence, even though Joe's very violent.

994
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: It shocks and unsettles you because you're complicit in the violence.

995
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

996
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:40,720
Speaker 2: I just think it's very brave.

997
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaker 1: The same here up next nerd Out.

998
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 2: In today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you

999
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: love them why, or a theory you're excited to share,

1000
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: which we've had a lot of page pictures us on

1001
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: the net flick show Send Sate, which was canceled way

1002
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 2: too soon.

1003
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 5: Hello, My recommendation for this week is a bit more mainstream.

1004
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 5: You may have heard of it, but if you haven't

1005
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 5: or haven't gotten around to watching it yet, I highly

1006
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 5: recommend Netflix's original series sense Eate. After listening to your

1007
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 5: discussion on the necessity of diversity and storytelling this week,

1008
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 5: it was definitely a show that came to mind, has

1009
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 5: got a lot of great representation, but is underappreciated. It's

1010
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 5: a story of eight people in their late twenties with

1011
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 5: the exact same birthday when they are suddenly born as suensates. Fundamentally,

1012
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 5: the birth activates a cerebral connection among eight people across

1013
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 5: the globe and to a cluster, so we get a

1014
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 5: diverse cast of eight main characters. It's got a lot

1015
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 5: of great sci fi storytelling and what's created by the

1016
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 5: Waikowski sisters from the matrix theme, so you know what

1017
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 5: delivers on the sci fi and yeh, the show with

1018
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 5: eight main characters is a lot, but every story is

1019
00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 5: very rich. They have their own arcs and voices. We

1020
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 5: have four non white characters, four men for women, one

1021
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 5: being a trans woman played by a trans woman written

1022
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 5: by trans women, so that's great, and also other LGBT characters,

1023
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 5: and they are from seven different countries and the scenes

1024
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 5: are filmed on location, so it's incredibly beautiful. The main

1025
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 5: themes of the show are identity and connection. Has a

1026
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 5: lot of great action scenes and some humor, but the

1027
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 5: best part is seeing how the different sensates connect with

1028
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 5: each other and accept each other. Each one struggles with

1029
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 5: their identity, especially as they awkwardly navigate new abilities such

1030
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 5: as telepathic ish communication or visiting and being able to

1031
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 5: take on skills and languages of the other sensates in

1032
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 5: their cluster. The first season is especially fun as they

1033
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 5: discover themselves and their other selves, and they also discover

1034
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 5: more clusters of sense hs which they can still communicate

1035
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 5: with but don't possess their abilities. We ultimately get an

1036
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 5: evil corporation hunting the sensates as well. The show doesn't

1037
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 5: shy away from topics such as religion, sexuality, sexism, transphobia,

1038
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 5: and homophobia. I think they tackle these with a lot

1039
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 5: of care and sincerity too. But warning, it does have

1040
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 5: a lot of graphic sex and violence. If you don't

1041
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 5: want to see a used dildo in pride colors, this

1042
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 5: isn't for you. Unfortunately, it was canceled after season two.

1043
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 5: Look Netflix cancels another diverse show, so we won't be

1044
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 5: getting any more. But pians. We're so upset about the

1045
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 5: cancelation that they started a petition and we're able to

1046
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 5: get a two hour finale. Finale was a bit rush,

1047
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 5: but at least we got one. Overall, sense it is ambitious, compelling,

1048
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 5: and if nothing else, an incredible journey. Thanks for listening,

1049
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 5: Thanks page.

1050
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,479
Speaker 2: If you have theories or passions you want to share,

1051
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: hit us up at x ray crooked dot com. Instructions

1052
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: as always are in the show notes.

1053
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: Well that is it for us, Rosie any plugs.

1054
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 2: You can find me talking about all this cool stuff. Oh,

1055
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 2: I'm I'm starting newsletter that's just gonna be like recommendations

1056
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 2: because I get a lot of requests for recommendations and

1057
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 2: I don't have time as much as I wish I

1058
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 2: did to always respond. So that's called Rosie Recommends. It's

1059
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 2: at Substack. You can subscribe to it now, and letterbox

1060
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 2: and Instagram are my only social media and I'm Rosie

1061
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 2: marks at both.

1062
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode of Extra Vision Friday, March twenty fourth,

1063
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: or episode four of The Mandalorian and where we're bringing

1064
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: you two episodes a week, two big episodes a week.

1065
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: Wherever you get your podcasts Wednesdays and Fridays, it's extra

1066
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: Vision two times a week in your gear holes.

1067
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 2: And if you like seeing us with your eye holes

1068
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 2: and watching the odd YouTube, you can subscribe to us there.

1069
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 2: There are full episodes of the show now. Delond does

1070
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 2: a brilliant job putting them together, and you can follow

1071
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 2: us at xrvpod on Twitter. We're always having fun celebrating

1072
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 2: the stuff we love. Plus check out the Discord. We

1073
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 2: love sha Discord because it's a ton of fun, a

1074
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 2: bunch of amazing fans that talking about all kinds of

1075
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,959
Speaker 2: cool stuff and Jason and ipop him once in a while.

1076
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: Five star ratings, five star reviews. We need them, we

1077
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: gotta have them, you gotta give them to us. Here

1078
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: is one from Shower with Friends, The dopest podcast, Perfect Chemistry,

1079
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: Love the convos, best recaps of the game. Love love,

1080
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: love this show.

1081
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, Thank you with Friends, thank your

1082
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 2: Show with Friends.

1083
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: Thank you absolutely. X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production.

1084
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Chris Lord and Sol Rubin.

1085
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy's Rhard

1086
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: Are editing and sound designers by Vacilla's Photopoulos. Dylon Villanueva

1087
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: and Matt de Group provide video production support. Alex Rella

1088
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: for handle social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for the music.

1089
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: See you next time. Well, maybe in all that research.

1090
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 5: To turn into just keep starting, we'll find something.

1091
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 4: Hey, Mike, uh yeah, this is up for Marine and I'm

1092
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 4: just over here, you know, trying to find a care

1093
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 4: for the the codies and spiders. And I gotta tell you, Mike, uh,

1094
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 4: I really don't like what they're doing. Uh W with

1095
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 4: regards what we're doing, I'm not gonna try and sugarcoat

1096
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 4: of Mic, I'm doing it too, but with uh, with

1097
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 4: regards to the to the animal testing that we're doing

1098
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 4: over here, Mike, it's really terrible. And I'm gonna and

1099
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 4: I'm gonna tell you something on this voice record of

1100
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 4: Mic that uh, that nobody else knows in that. So

1101
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 4: I'm gonna let the monkeys go, Mike. I'm supposed to.

1102
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 4: I'm supposed to off the monkeys, Mic.

1103
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: Uh.

1104
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 4: They are riddled with cordy SEPs and different strains of

1105
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 4: the two Mike. They're fucking dangerous, uh, little beasts. But

1106
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 4: you know what I'm gonna do, Like, i'm'a let 'em out.

1107
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 4: I'm'a let 'em out of the cage. And you wanna

1108
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 4: come out of this old cage, buddy, you can. We

1109
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 4: open up the window. You can get out of here

1110
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 4: a little bit.

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01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: R