Speaker 1: They're now instead of challenges or problems, they're friends that
Speaker 1: I can bring closer and sit down and calm them
Speaker 1: down so that they don't rattle me. Because at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I'm still the one in control.
Speaker 1: My emotions are a reflection of the internal side, but
Speaker 1: they're actually not what makes the decisions. That is the eye,
Speaker 1: the congruent eye in the middle of all of that. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome back to this very special episode of On Purpose.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our partners at Better Help. For this episode today,
Speaker 1: I'm joined with Hay Sugo, licensed therapist and head of
Speaker 1: clinical Operations at Better Help. Also, I just want to
Speaker 1: remind you that just because you might hear something on
Speaker 1: the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing, beware
Speaker 1: of self diagnosis. You want to find a qualified professional
Speaker 1: to assess and explore diagnosis if it's important to you.
Speaker 1: Better Help would like me to mention the following trigger
Speaker 1: warnings for racism, bullying, and relationships with food. Today, we're
Speaker 1: joined by a very special guest, Ulado Sam, who's going
Speaker 1: to be sharing his own experiences, his own thoughts, his
Speaker 1: own journey in the world and in life through his
Speaker 1: lens and our goal with these episodes is to show
Speaker 1: you the insides or the inner workings of what a
Speaker 1: therapy session can look like. So what we're going to
Speaker 1: be doing is guiding you Lardo through some therapy questions
Speaker 1: that is going to help him reflect, share his experiences,
Speaker 1: share his thoughts in a way that hopefully shows you
Speaker 1: that therapy is accessible, it's approachable, and I'm hoping that
Speaker 1: these give you a sense of what a real session
Speaker 1: could look like for you, so that if you've had
Speaker 1: any fears or any doubts or any challenges with finding
Speaker 1: a therapist or going to therapy, that hopefully some of
Speaker 1: those will go away. And of course hopefully you download
Speaker 1: better help and use it in your life to make
Speaker 1: there be really accessible and affordable and approachable for you. So,
Speaker 1: hey sou, it's always good to have you back in
Speaker 1: the studio, Yolao. It's good to have you in the studio.
Speaker 1: Nice to meet you for the pleasure time and for
Speaker 1: a few moments i've spent with you just now, I
Speaker 1: can tell that you're very thoughtful, reflective individual, and so
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that you've allowed us this opportunity to be
Speaker 1: a part of this experience. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: bringing me into the space. As always, curating a space
Speaker 1: of wellness is something that is really necessary but also
Speaker 1: difficult to do. So already the fact that we have
Speaker 1: this easy breath and you know, the nerves and jitters
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily bubbling to the top. I'm really excited to
Speaker 1: be able to have this conversation with you both. I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear more a bit about you and then
Speaker 1: that can go further into what you would like to
Speaker 1: talk about today. First and foremostself saying and from the
Speaker 1: land of wood and Water, the birthplace of reggae Dan
Speaker 1: Saul and the fastest man and woman on the planet
Speaker 1: and none other than King's Sun, Jamaica, So you have
Speaker 1: to represent you know. But out of that growing up,
Speaker 1: I've always been into athletics and I come from a
Speaker 1: really unique family structure. My mom's from England, but my
Speaker 1: brother and I born and raised in Jamaica, And on
Speaker 1: top of that we have this eclectic sense of family.
Speaker 1: And as I was maturing, my mom sort of saw
Speaker 1: an opportunity where my mental health was concerned. Moving from
Speaker 1: spaces and schools where there were so many things brought
Speaker 1: together all at one time, growing up in Jamaica, you
Speaker 1: realize that once you get to a particular school, probably
Speaker 1: high school, which starts in grade seven, there are so
Speaker 1: many communities that come together all at one time. It's
Speaker 1: not as spaced out as a United States. So on
Speaker 1: an island, you can have someone that lives two three
Speaker 1: parishes over that starts their journey to school at five
Speaker 1: am in the city where we were. And I just
Speaker 1: happened to have a challenging time where my mental health
Speaker 1: was concerned, and that was when I met doctor Agree Irons.
Speaker 1: It was a really unique experience because I was so young,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what therapy was. But in this space,
Speaker 1: not only were we dealing with anxiety and depression, but
Speaker 1: we were also dealing with family structure. How can I
Speaker 1: show up as the best version of myself so that
Speaker 1: I can be the best brother that I can be
Speaker 1: older brother at that and then also simultaneously be the
Speaker 1: best son that I can be. Because that was my
Speaker 1: first sense of duty that I can really think of
Speaker 1: outside of being my own individual, I realized I had
Speaker 1: this other title. I had son, and then soon thereafter
Speaker 1: I had big brother, and I really started to find
Speaker 1: out what those two terms meant through sitting down with
Speaker 1: doctor irons really connect with other people, and I see
Speaker 1: the identity is really tied to context of you in
Speaker 1: relationship with your family. Yeah, family is where it starts,
Speaker 1: I believe, and then we open from that to culture,
Speaker 1: because then the wider scope or the wider lens looks
Speaker 1: at the fact that this really nuanced and I would
Speaker 1: say it was somewhat of a benefit that was offered
Speaker 1: to me and my brother wasn't something that a lot
Speaker 1: of people around me had the opportunity to experience. And
Speaker 1: I thank my mom for working so hard for that
Speaker 1: because it's been something that has shaped the relationship that
Speaker 1: I have with both of them to this very day.
Speaker 1: And so in those spaces, I realized that relating to
Speaker 1: other people is not just something that you do to
Speaker 1: survive or to move yourself forward, but it's something that's
Speaker 1: actually necessary to humanity. We can't sort of exist isolated,
Speaker 1: and finding ways of communicating are super important, as we've
Speaker 1: learned over the last maybe two and a half years
Speaker 1: as well. So I'm glad that those skills have sort
Speaker 1: of stuck with me. Skills of being able to communicate,
Speaker 1: relate with other people. You mentioned your mom saw an opportunity.
Speaker 1: That's the way that you mentioned to get you into
Speaker 1: you know what, a lot of people will say services
Speaker 1: into therapy. You are struggling, What would you say you
Speaker 1: remember about your own struggle, not what your mom noticed
Speaker 1: about you, but what did you feel? And if you
Speaker 1: even remember that kind of thing. I can honestly say
Speaker 1: in the simplest form, the things that I remember are
Speaker 1: being exceptionally present with myself, but not fully understanding what
Speaker 1: that meant. So there are these things happening internally. There
Speaker 1: are these thoughts that are running a little faster than
Speaker 1: I can keep up with my body's responding in particular
Speaker 1: ways that I'm not able to check and really bring back.
Speaker 1: And before I knew it, I was competing heavily in
Speaker 1: track and field. It's something I did all the way
Speaker 1: up through college, ran internationally as well, and I found
Speaker 1: myself constantly in this not just a space of doubt,
Speaker 1: but then also saying I'm not the biggest on the field.
Speaker 1: And sometimes when you perform in like a space like Jamaica,
Speaker 1: where we have like the biggest high school track and
Speaker 1: field meet in the Western Hemisphere high school Champs, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure because again, we're a nation where
Speaker 1: this is one of the ways that you can make
Speaker 1: your way out. Big up to you saying bowl to
Speaker 1: Soffer Powell, handsl Parchment. Those are some of the people
Speaker 1: that I had the fortune of whether being able to
Speaker 1: watch train or being part of high performance track team
Speaker 1: with Fitz Coleman, those individuals brought me into a space
Speaker 1: where I saw what was tangible and I put a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure on myself not just to perform, but
Speaker 1: then also to make a mark. My desire was to
Speaker 1: make a mark on the world, and that was the
Speaker 1: first way I understood it. And a combination of like
Speaker 1: just being in high school, going through puberty, and then
Speaker 1: also performing at a high level in a sport put
Speaker 1: me in this intersection of, well, who's helping this athlete
Speaker 1: to process what he's feeling on and off the track.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the opportunity that my mom saw
Speaker 1: because there was a big moment in high school where
Speaker 1: I just everything froze and it was my actually my
Speaker 1: first absence seizure that I realized that I had, and
Speaker 1: that was the impetus to say, hey, he's not having
Speaker 1: the craziest of physical responses, and that's how I ended
Speaker 1: up in my first therapy session. And in that session,
Speaker 1: I imagine here a lot going on. You said something
Speaker 1: really poignant here about like being extremely self aware but
Speaker 1: not understanding what that means. And now you're reflecting on
Speaker 1: that later in life, you've gone through a lot of things,
Speaker 1: including that therapy. So what do you understand about yourself now?
Speaker 1: That's different from then? When I was small, there were
Speaker 1: the doubts, the pressures, as my favorite author Anthony C.
Speaker 1: Winkler will say, like the little pastor that's in your
Speaker 1: head that's telling you right from wrong, the voice that
Speaker 1: isn't yours yet, the voice that is probably societies or
Speaker 1: your families that is there to guide you. But no
Speaker 1: one necessarily sits down and allows that process to be
Speaker 1: a very present one where we detail like how are
Speaker 1: you feeling? Actually, what are you thinking about? And how
Speaker 1: does life feel for you in your little body right now?
Speaker 1: As you continue to develop, And so in reflecting now,
Speaker 1: I realize that I'm more skilled with these techniques, I'm
Speaker 1: more patient with them as well. As a kid, you
Speaker 1: sort of want to understand, you want to do, you
Speaker 1: want to get done, and yet at the same time,
Speaker 1: you don't have the understanding of how to process all
Speaker 1: of that, and you might center yourself under all the
Speaker 1: isms and schisms that are around you. And so now
Speaker 1: I found that I give myself a bit more space
Speaker 1: to breathe, give myself a little bit more time to
Speaker 1: relate not just to myself but to my environment, and
Speaker 1: then I'm able to analyze a bit more. And that
Speaker 1: allows me then with even some of the things that
Speaker 1: I still deal with today that may not have disappeared,
Speaker 1: but they're now instead of challenges or problems, they're friends
Speaker 1: that I can bring closer, you know, and sit down
Speaker 1: and calm them down so that they don't rattle me,
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, I'm still the
Speaker 1: one in control. My emotions are a reflection of the
Speaker 1: internal side, but they're actually not what makes the decisions.
Speaker 1: He too. I just wanted to just share a few
Speaker 1: observations for our viewers and listeners back at home or
Speaker 1: wherever you are. What I love about watching a therapy
Speaker 1: session in this way, or a conversation with a therapist
Speaker 1: is you get to notice the really attentive listening that
Speaker 1: HASU has of like finding like something very specific that
Speaker 1: you said, and using that as an opportunity to ask
Speaker 1: a follow up question, which we don't always get in
Speaker 1: our day to day life. I was thinking about if
Speaker 1: you were sharing your very honest truth on an everyday basis.
Speaker 1: Sometimes our friends and family that they can be really
Speaker 1: well intentioned, but it's really hard for them to ask
Speaker 1: a question that does justice to what you just shared
Speaker 1: and to really create a space of listening very attentively.
Speaker 1: And I could see what Hasu was picking out, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you felt it too that you had to
Speaker 1: say and think, oh wow, yeah, I just said that,
Speaker 1: like what does that really mean? And I think that
Speaker 1: that one of the beauties of therapy as well, that
Speaker 1: you actually have someone who's sitting with you who is
Speaker 1: listening far more attentively and skillfully than most of the
Speaker 1: people we meet every single day. And then I was
Speaker 1: also just reflecting to what you said. I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners will be able to empathize
Speaker 1: with what it feels like being a young person who
Speaker 1: has pressure on them. So whether it's sports or athletics,
Speaker 1: or whether it's dance or gymnastics, or whether it's swimming,
Speaker 1: or whether it's you know, whatever it is, that any
Speaker 1: of us did when we were young. I think everyone
Speaker 1: can empathize with that experience of feeling like I'm not
Speaker 1: big enough, I'm not I'm not fast enough, I'm not
Speaker 1: skillful enough, like and I can't can't even imagine what
Speaker 1: it begins to feel. Also, when you feel that that
Speaker 1: is a method in your nation to create some you know,
Speaker 1: impact in your life like that, if you add that
Speaker 1: layer to it, that's a really remarkable layer. So I
Speaker 1: just want to share some of those reflections quickly from
Speaker 1: what I was hearing as well through these sessions. If
Speaker 1: you're listening or watching right now, I hope you're appreciating
Speaker 1: and taking in all of these cues. Thank you, I
Speaker 1: mean you're noting. I think a very key difference from
Speaker 1: talking to people that you care about that care about you,
Speaker 1: your friends, your family, the folks that you generally want
Speaker 1: to turn to first when you're going through something. Oftentimes
Speaker 1: when they respond, when the folks that love you are
Speaker 1: listening to you speak, they're trying to respond in a
Speaker 1: way that's kind of like emotionally tied up in who
Speaker 1: you are in the relationship. So you're listening to respond
Speaker 1: with you in that response, what therapists are generally doing
Speaker 1: are listening to respond to you with you and mind.
Speaker 1: I'm not responding with like anything that has to do
Speaker 1: with my life or trying to connect it to something
Speaker 1: at me. And that's what people do, That's what friends
Speaker 1: do with each other. Is I'm going to respond in
Speaker 1: a way that helps us connect on this friend level.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to bring it back to like, Oh,
Speaker 1: that reminds me of a time when I was in
Speaker 1: high school and I was running track. Like you're going
Speaker 1: to find that therapists generally don't do that very much
Speaker 1: because the focus should remain on the client. So that
Speaker 1: is something that is intentional and something that somebody can
Speaker 1: expect when they go to therapy is this person is
Speaker 1: here with undivided attention to you, which most of us
Speaker 1: don't get in our everyday life with anybody. Definitely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it allows for a relationship to form, but
Speaker 1: it is different. It's different than what you're going to
Speaker 1: have with your friends, you know, your loved ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's like that small bridge between maybe like a
Speaker 1: sympathetic relationship versus an empathetic relationship, which the sympathetic, to
Speaker 1: my understanding is oh, I've experienced that too. I know
Speaker 1: what that feels like. Whereas what we're noting now is
Speaker 1: just sitting down with the person and being like, I
Speaker 1: actually heard what you said and you mentioned this, would
Speaker 1: you like to speak more about that? Which allows for
Speaker 1: the person that's actually going through something or the person
Speaker 1: that is coming for help to actually express what they
Speaker 1: need without this other perspective interfering. And not to say
Speaker 1: that it isn't helpful sometimes because I do believe that
Speaker 1: in these sessions there are obviously moments of the oh,
Speaker 1: I know what you mean by that. Yet at the
Speaker 1: same time they come even at more specific instances, and
Speaker 1: so it's really a pleasure because also as a man
Speaker 1: of color, having these conversations too can lead to some
Speaker 1: very nuanced moments where those lines sort of get blurred
Speaker 1: for one or many reasons. So this definitely feels great
Speaker 1: speaking of connecting things back to something you just said.
Speaker 1: What are these lines that get blurred? Well, I think
Speaker 1: I've found that for me, I've been fortunate to have
Speaker 1: individuals of color, black men and women for the longer
Speaker 1: sessions that I've been able to commit to, and I
Speaker 1: say to commit to because there's a reality that therapy
Speaker 1: isn't always as affordable or convenient with the world that
Speaker 1: we live in, and so we're trying to through something
Speaker 1: like this make it feel more tangible and more accessible
Speaker 1: to people. But then being in America, I have found
Speaker 1: that if I do happen to work with a therapist
Speaker 1: that may be of a different ethnicity or a different race,
Speaker 1: there are sometimes where, depending if I haven't done enough
Speaker 1: research or we haven't had enough time together, those lines
Speaker 1: of like, well, I don't get to talk about this often,
Speaker 1: let's actually investigate this when this that they're investigating isn't
Speaker 1: what's most important to me. It's the that. And the
Speaker 1: only reason I'm able to have that a little bit
Speaker 1: extra of awareness is because my experience lets me know
Speaker 1: that I should be able to speak about the that
Speaker 1: and not the this. You know, it's if I'm understanding
Speaker 1: it sounds like you've had experiences where the person in
Speaker 1: front of you is focusing in on something but that
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily what you want to talk about. But it
Speaker 1: sounds like you're over there kind of taking care of
Speaker 1: this other person too, thinking like, oh, I can understand
Speaker 1: why you would want to focus on that, So then
Speaker 1: you go with that which takes the focus of that.
Speaker 1: So what is the that for you right now? What
Speaker 1: is something going on with you right now? I'll share
Speaker 1: this is actually a genuine concern of mine. I've recently
Speaker 1: moved into a new apartment, first time. It's me, my
Speaker 1: one bedroom, one bath, taking care of myself. Congratulations, Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. I appreciate that. And one of the
Speaker 1: things I had to ask myself recently is how safe
Speaker 1: I am in my apartment. We know the context of
Speaker 1: what it means to be in America, and thanks to
Speaker 1: more House College my undergraduate experience that the world isn't
Speaker 1: as fair sometimes, and we have seen the stories on
Speaker 1: the news, we hear it on the radio, we see
Speaker 1: the social media posts. But Brianna Taylor's experience resonated with
Speaker 1: me in a very different way. To know that you
Speaker 1: can be in your home, in your bed, fast asleep,
Speaker 1: that was something that it was real. But now that
Speaker 1: I am one hundred percent on my own sitting in
Speaker 1: that space, I asked myself, how do not even how
Speaker 1: do I prevent that? But is that a reality for me?
Speaker 1: And the sad answer in some senses is yes. There
Speaker 1: is the small chance that if I haven't introduced myself
Speaker 1: properly to my neighbors, or if I leave at different hours,
Speaker 1: if I wear particular things, I might be seen as
Speaker 1: suspicious instead of mysterious and cool. You know that, I
Speaker 1: always want to be that low key sexy neighbor, like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, he's leaving. He said, Oh he's coming back,
Speaker 1: you know. But the reality that I also have to
Speaker 1: navigate is that before they get to meet me, they're
Speaker 1: AWE might actually be, I guess, colored by the hue
Speaker 1: of my skin, and it's something that I have to
Speaker 1: be aware of regardless of where I am, and it
Speaker 1: just so happens that I live here, and so all
Speaker 1: the contextual matters of like what it means to be
Speaker 1: black in America like sort of came back to me
Speaker 1: all that one time. So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1: For many other people who are describing to folks like
Speaker 1: I just moved into my first place of my own,
Speaker 1: the first thing that a lot of people are going
Speaker 1: to think is like, that's almost awesome. Congratulations, that's amazing,
Speaker 1: And then you continue to share that, actually, you also
Speaker 1: have to be concerned about your safety. This is not
Speaker 1: something that many people have to think about and you know,
Speaker 1: as you're speaking, I also have a lot of my
Speaker 1: own emotional reaction to hearing you. Because our homes are
Speaker 1: supposed to be our sanctuaries. Our homes are supposed to
Speaker 1: be the safest place where we can let our hair down,
Speaker 1: where we can feel comfortable, where we don't have to
Speaker 1: be on edge about anything. What I'm hearing is that
Speaker 1: for you, that is not always the reality. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you want me to believe in this progress, right, And
Speaker 1: yet at the same time, on the news, I'm able
Speaker 1: to literally see a physical representation of my features going
Speaker 1: through these extremely traumatic experiences. Right, I'm seeing it not
Speaker 1: only represented by people advocating for it, but also sensationalized
Speaker 1: and debated as to whether, oh, it's just or not,
Speaker 1: when in reality, there are so many faces that look
Speaker 1: like mine, that dream like I do, that sound like
Speaker 1: I do, that are slowly absorbing all of that information,
Speaker 1: and without proper resources, without spaces like this, the discussion
Speaker 1: around empowering you in the face of that adversity is
Speaker 1: somewhat lost, and that is probably one of the goals
Speaker 1: of being a more houseman. It's to be a candle
Speaker 1: in the dark, to represent that even though I know
Speaker 1: this reality is around me, this shadow might be following me.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of pressure for yourself again, a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure to be light in a very dark world.
Speaker 1: So what are the things you'd say in your life
Speaker 1: that continue to motivate you to overcome that pressure, to
Speaker 1: meet that pressure. I think of my granddad that recently passed. Again,
Speaker 1: we go back to family, so needless to say, my mom,
Speaker 1: my brother, my grandmother, my family. But outside of that,
Speaker 1: in the world, we get some small glimmers of hope.
Speaker 1: And one of the ideas that I constantly have is
Speaker 1: what's my hope? And that happens to be my art.
Speaker 1: What gives me hope is a great story, but a
Speaker 1: story that doesn't reflect a lot of the stereotypes. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you all watch my favorite movie of
Speaker 1: the year thus far, Everything Everywhere, all at once, really
Speaker 1: fantastic movie. Outside of that, I look the World Championships
Speaker 1: you were earlier this summer, you know, big up, Shelleyan Phraser, Price,
Speaker 1: Elaine Thompson, big up. Haants apart the whole. Like anytime
Speaker 1: I can see people like thriving, it's always big for me.
Speaker 1: I noted that there must be an immense pressure to
Speaker 1: continue to share this light that you have inside of
Speaker 1: yourself with other people, on top of also having to
Speaker 1: wonder if you're safe in your own home, if you're
Speaker 1: safe in any space, like you said, and it's hope
Speaker 1: that you come back to that allows you to move
Speaker 1: through this world, continue navigating. It gives you kind of
Speaker 1: the freedom to continue to see beauty in the world.
Speaker 1: What about times where it doesn't feel so easy to
Speaker 1: do that, Well, this is where the skills kick in,
Speaker 1: is it not? And so it's going to the skills
Speaker 1: that I have, or taking a moment grounding myself. And
Speaker 1: when I say grounding myself, sometimes it's the difference between
Speaker 1: a shallow breath and an actual deep breath and knowing
Speaker 1: the difference in my body of like what that actually
Speaker 1: feels like. There is a lot of people don't know
Speaker 1: what it means to breathe, you know, below their ribcage,
Speaker 1: and it's something that's uncanny to me because as an athlete,
Speaker 1: I was also never taught to breathe. I learned it's
Speaker 1: an important thing I learned about aerobic and anaerobic respiration,
Speaker 1: but no one ever gave me an exercise to expand
Speaker 1: my lung capacity. Right, I'm putting my body under due rest.
Speaker 1: I'm putting my body under stress. I like to use
Speaker 1: sports as an analogy sometimes for life. Right, and yet
Speaker 1: still the one process that is going to go whether
Speaker 1: or not your body is under that right, the part
Speaker 1: that fuels you is not so much so expanded on.
Speaker 1: And so the skills really come into play when I'm
Speaker 1: not feeling my best. Typically in those dark moments, either
Speaker 1: go to art, go to my loves, or go to
Speaker 1: my family. It's all still about connection, relationships, you know,
Speaker 1: being together, interconnectedness, and it's making me think of intersectionality,
Speaker 1: how things in all of our lives meet each other
Speaker 1: in some way. It's clear that you're a person of
Speaker 1: the world that is absorbed. You said that you know
Speaker 1: life is an active choice that you're doing all the time,
Speaker 1: that you have these skills that get you through the
Speaker 1: more challenging times. Can you share where you started learning
Speaker 1: these skills? If nobody taught you how to breathe, where
Speaker 1: did you learn how to do that? I happen to
Speaker 1: be in these really amazing spaces collaborating with these great people,
Speaker 1: and I ended up working with after grad school, I
Speaker 1: ended up working with this wellness brand, and while we
Speaker 1: were there in that space, that was my first introduction
Speaker 1: to probably like mindfulness in that extent, sound, healing, those
Speaker 1: types of things, and that was where a little bit
Speaker 1: of interest started to develop. But while I was pursuing
Speaker 1: my masters, I was conducting research and what I found
Speaker 1: is that all cultures across the world, what connects us
Speaker 1: to the Euroba, the Greeks, the Ashanti, the Aztecs is
Speaker 1: the fact that we all have the same instrument. Can
Speaker 1: you actively make the decision to go to your breath,
Speaker 1: Can you actively make the decision to just relax your shoulders,
Speaker 1: relax your forehead, stop biting on your jaw. These are
Speaker 1: all these the things that we don't realize that we're doing.
Speaker 1: But no one is ever saying to you, hey, take
Speaker 1: a second and actually stop bracing, because people think bracing
Speaker 1: means this. You going out there and grabbing the bull
Speaker 1: by the you know when I'm here is like, even
Speaker 1: when maybe you were conscious of it or not, people
Speaker 1: weren't teaching you things, but you went out to be
Speaker 1: taught by the world in some way or another. You're
Speaker 1: an active student of life. It sounds like that. And
Speaker 1: I'm also seeing that this lifelong learner has taken all
Speaker 1: the beauty that he's found, and you really want to
Speaker 1: share it with other people. You mentioned your family a lot,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned art and art is something to be seen.
Speaker 1: Art is something to be experienced and something to move
Speaker 1: other people, and it sounds like you've been moved. You
Speaker 1: want to move other people. I definitely do. How can
Speaker 1: I do my work so that my cup is somewhat
Speaker 1: full so that I can water the next person, so
Speaker 1: that I can give just a little, not everything, because
Speaker 1: I need something for myself. But I can't start until
Speaker 1: I've poured something. As we've heard the angel saying into
Speaker 1: the cup, my mind keeps going back to something you
Speaker 1: said earlier, the pressure that I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: a pressure that you felt for yourself, but a lot
Speaker 1: of people in your community felt when you're in high school,
Speaker 1: to achieve, to perform in a particular space in order
Speaker 1: to get out. I would be remiss if I don't ask, like,
Speaker 1: do you feel that kind of thing still present in
Speaker 1: your life? Do you feel like there are pressures to
Speaker 1: get out of something even if I do happen to
Speaker 1: make it to the place where I'm financially free and
Speaker 1: I'm able to protect and provide for my family. There's
Speaker 1: also this question, which I'm sure both of you have
Speaker 1: asked yourself, how can I help the wider world, the
Speaker 1: wider community. It's through things like this, definitely. But the
Speaker 1: beautiful aspect of it is that I don't think it
Speaker 1: ever stops, because my reality is until I see things
Speaker 1: change in the world around me, that means that there's
Speaker 1: still work to be done. And the question that I
Speaker 1: beg of myself is what can I do. You've said
Speaker 1: so many things that I want to continue exploring with you,
Speaker 1: but really it's like you've done quite a lot of
Speaker 1: self exploration, is what I'm hearing. It's interesting hearing you
Speaker 1: both continuing the conversation. I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: time people have an assumption that therapy or conversations around
Speaker 1: therapy end up being like these deep dark secrets and
Speaker 1: these deep dark holes where it's like I always feel
Speaker 1: like sometimes people feel they have to invent a huge
Speaker 1: problem before a therapy session, and people feel like, ohful,
Speaker 1: if I don't have a really big problem in my life,
Speaker 1: then I don't need therapy. And I'm what I'm hearing
Speaker 1: today and hearing this conversation is actually we're speaking to
Speaker 1: someone who has a great set of skills, has some good,
Speaker 1: good ideas and good thoughts, but we're getting and I'm
Speaker 1: hoping you're feeling this way and you're the only person
Speaker 1: who can really tell us this. But there's a sense
Speaker 1: of like healthy reflection in any of your self of
Speaker 1: your own ideas. He So who's asking you questions that
Speaker 1: I'm making you pause and stop and really think about
Speaker 1: where some of these strengths are where they're not, So
Speaker 1: I start looking at it so much more of a
Speaker 1: wholesome discussion as opposed to like I'm like in an
Speaker 1: emergency situation where I have a problem and I need
Speaker 1: a therapist to solve it, which is often a feeling
Speaker 1: I think people have with the like I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go to therapy because I don't have that, or
Speaker 1: I only go to therapy when I have something that extreme. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and people have shared with me that they get stressed
Speaker 1: out before sessions because they think that they're supposed to
Speaker 1: be prepared with this big problem that they're supposed to
Speaker 1: bring up, or you know, I've been asked like what
Speaker 1: am I supposed to bring to you. Am I supposed
Speaker 1: to become prepared with something? Do I need to have
Speaker 1: a topic on hand? And I've shared with folks like
Speaker 1: it doesn't always have to be that way. Of course,
Speaker 1: if you have a topic on hand, that's something we're
Speaker 1: going to explore and dig deep into. But you're right,
Speaker 1: therapy can also just be about digging deep into you,
Speaker 1: into something that's going on now, relating something that's happened
Speaker 1: in the past to the present. And it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be deep and dark, although that does happen in therapy,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to be that way. It's not
Speaker 1: about like pathology or what's wrong with you, or what's
Speaker 1: wrong with your mother, or what's wrong with anything. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's so refreshing and healing, even if there's no wound
Speaker 1: there necessarily at the time, but it's like a refreshing
Speaker 1: thing to be able to just look inward and rediscover
Speaker 1: your values what's important to you. Because being able to
Speaker 1: reflect on this stuff externally, I think on a regular
Speaker 1: basis allows you to continue nurturing your sense of self.
Speaker 1: And when you don't have a strong sense of self,
Speaker 1: which seems like you have a like what's stronger than strongest,
Speaker 1: you know, like a strong sense of self. It is
Speaker 1: what allows you to, you know, have an outpouring of
Speaker 1: love for other people, to still hope in others, and
Speaker 1: continue to be influential, inspirational. These things don't happen if
Speaker 1: you don't know who you are. Two things to that,
Speaker 1: My grandma always says, you shouldn't eat because you're hungry.
Speaker 1: You should eat so that you do not get hungry.
Speaker 1: This is coming from a woman that at some point
Speaker 1: knew what it meant to be. Right. So I have
Speaker 1: learned that therapy isn't necessarily because you need the help
Speaker 1: at the moment. It's so that you can be prepared
Speaker 1: for that moment where you might not actually have access
Speaker 1: to the therapist. Right. And then the second thing is
Speaker 1: that the issues that I think that I've gone through
Speaker 1: are actually like chilling. They're actually a lot heavier than
Speaker 1: I think. Maybe it sounds like in the moment, but
Speaker 1: I had to realize that the issue is always going
Speaker 1: to be the issue. It's your relationship to the issue
Speaker 1: that is positive or I getive right, life is going
Speaker 1: to be what life is. It's your relationship to life
Speaker 1: that is either positive or negative. It's a real thing
Speaker 1: for me when I'm in particular neighborhoods. I remember, like
Speaker 1: working and performing in Europe, and the first time I
Speaker 1: was in Poland. I remember what the response was to
Speaker 1: me when I walked into certain spaces. But my relationship
Speaker 1: to those things is that again, not only am I
Speaker 1: a candle in the dark that is allowed to feel
Speaker 1: what I feel, but then what can I do to
Speaker 1: shift this space to leave it better than I saw it?
Speaker 1: You know? Like I am the one person here that
Speaker 1: was born in the United States. I was born here,
Speaker 1: I was raised here. Having said that, I also look
Speaker 1: like someone that has this like perpetual foreigner label stuck
Speaker 1: to them. Regardless of having been born here, raised here,
Speaker 1: educated here, I still encounter on a fairly regular basis
Speaker 1: the idea from other people that I don't really belong here,
Speaker 1: that I am a visitor to this country, which is
Speaker 1: weird because I'm the most American one in this room
Speaker 1: right And I think that experience, like ever since I
Speaker 1: was very small, because my parents who decided to have
Speaker 1: their kids in this country and still name them like
Speaker 1: foreign ly, like I have a very ethnic name, and
Speaker 1: that is very much part of my experience and my
Speaker 1: journey is shaped who I am. It made things difficult
Speaker 1: when I was a small kid, but at this point
Speaker 1: it's not something I would want to change. But I
Speaker 1: think that and like navigating the world in this like
Speaker 1: yellow body, it leaves this like gaping hole, this thing
Speaker 1: I'm trying to fill of wanting to be included, of
Speaker 1: wanting to be accepted, of wanting to belong And I
Speaker 1: think that's one of the pillars of humanity. It's like
Speaker 1: we're all looking for that sense of belonging. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, my journey into my profession and the career
Speaker 1: track I've chosen and everything that I've done at this
Speaker 1: point is all related to that. And you said something about,
Speaker 1: you know, getting to know people on an individual level,
Speaker 1: on a one on one experience. When I get to
Speaker 1: learn about somebody else's life and their pain and their
Speaker 1: hope and their love, it allows me to feel closer
Speaker 1: to that sense of belonging. It's like we're all actually
Speaker 1: kind of the same in many ways, regardless of all
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff, and it allows me to feel included.
Speaker 1: You know, I enter a field to mental health is
Speaker 1: still very predominantly white, and you know, I find myself
Speaker 1: in professional spaces where I still feel like the extreme minority,
Speaker 1: which I think is still something that I grapple with.
Speaker 1: Its still something that I'm navigating and still something I'm
Speaker 1: trying to feel completely comfortable with. Because ultimately I can
Speaker 1: say that I feel comfortable in my skin. I feel
Speaker 1: good that I live authentically, But there are still contexts,
Speaker 1: and there are still spaces, and there are still times
Speaker 1: where I don't feel that same confidence in myself. And
Speaker 1: it's something I bring with me, I think to my
Speaker 1: work because I know I look like a certain way,
Speaker 1: and I know that people are thinking about something as
Speaker 1: soon as they see me. And that's part of the
Speaker 1: work too, and part of my personal and professional challenge
Speaker 1: is always feeling like I have to prove myself. And
Speaker 1: you know, the nice thing, when I'm in an actual
Speaker 1: therapy session, when it's just me and this other person,
Speaker 1: a lot of that pressure actually dissipates. It's not really
Speaker 1: there as much because as soon as this other person
Speaker 1: starts to recognize that they can feel safe because I'm
Speaker 1: not here to talk about anything that would make them
Speaker 1: feel othered in this one on one interaction, I feel
Speaker 1: accepted by them. Too my clients, and I think that's
Speaker 1: what intersectionality is about. Even for example, you share that
Speaker 1: allows me to feel like you can understand my plight
Speaker 1: a little bit more, because it's also one thing that
Speaker 1: I've noticed because there are individuals that may look like
Speaker 1: us that also don't have that awareness either, right. And
Speaker 1: growing up in Jamaica, I was really fortunate to be
Speaker 1: able to grow up and see black billionaires, to see
Speaker 1: doctors that look like me, to have teachers both male
Speaker 1: and female, that looked like me. And when I went
Speaker 1: to more House, I was very fortunate to have that continue.
Speaker 1: But I will let you know that since leaving more House,
Speaker 1: almost every instructor that I've had, every teacher that I've
Speaker 1: had in my master's program, I did not have one
Speaker 1: black instructor directly teach me. I had to go out
Speaker 1: and find in the department, right. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that really grounded me was actually knowing that I
Speaker 1: know that it's possible. And I think that's also like
Speaker 1: a double ed sword, because knowing what's possible and then
Speaker 1: being in a space where it's not visibly seen it
Speaker 1: then frustrates you because it's like, why isn't it happening.
Speaker 1: But the reality is that if we can be intentional
Speaker 1: and creative and mindful in not just our art but
Speaker 1: the way that we live, the impact that we'll have
Speaker 1: is so much longer lasting that we can literally shape
Speaker 1: the way people are going to experience the world. Well, you, Lada,
Speaker 1: I mean hearing from you today, I mean I feel
Speaker 1: very inspired by your commitment to the work that is
Speaker 1: so important to your heart, not just to your heart,
Speaker 1: which is so important to the world, right, Like, this
Speaker 1: is work that I think we all believe is valuable
Speaker 1: and needed and critical. It's not even you know, it's
Speaker 1: a it's not a luxury. This is just a necessity
Speaker 1: for what we need is human kind. But what I
Speaker 1: find very indicative is that the work that you've been
Speaker 1: able to do with your family, through the amazing experiences
Speaker 1: that you've had thanks to your family, through the work
Speaker 1: that you have done in therapy, has given you the
Speaker 1: ability to now go out and want to share this
Speaker 1: message with the world. Like that's what at least what
Speaker 1: I make And you can totally agree disagree, but that's
Speaker 1: what I'm perceiving in someone like you, where you've been
Speaker 1: through your pain, you've been through challenges. Of course, we're
Speaker 1: always going through pain and challenges, but you're someone who's
Speaker 1: created a toolkit for yourself, whether it's the tools that
Speaker 1: you develop through therapy or you know. And so now
Speaker 1: you're in a position of strength and empowerment in wanting
Speaker 1: to go and be this light that we were discussing
Speaker 1: and dealing with the pressure of being that light. But
Speaker 1: that's some of the work that so many people are
Speaker 1: trying to do right now. Is even feeling like I think,
Speaker 1: I think we all know that it's hard to be
Speaker 1: the light when all you've seen is darkness, and we
Speaker 1: know we don't want people to prematurely try and be
Speaker 1: the light. And at the same time, we also know
Speaker 1: that ultimately, when you've walked out of your own darkness,
Speaker 1: it's great to turn the light on for others. So
Speaker 1: much of what therapy is doing is helping us make
Speaker 1: sense of our emotional and mental self in order to
Speaker 1: figure out what we want to do in the outside world.
Speaker 1: And it sounds like that's work that you've been doing
Speaker 1: and continue to do, which is giving you a sense
Speaker 1: of strength to try and help others right now. And
Speaker 1: I think we as human beings have the capacity to
Speaker 1: develop that unlimited tool kit. But it's not until we
Speaker 1: have great teachers and collaborators, access to information, access to
Speaker 1: basic human needs, that we can stop thinking of survival
Speaker 1: and we can then start to thrive. And so I
Speaker 1: have to give thanks for the blessings that I have.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. A learner, thank you and so
Speaker 1: did you have any final words or remarks for us
Speaker 1: for today that you wanted to share? I wish I
Speaker 1: had something super wise. My relation to that is that's
Speaker 1: part of what I think I aim to have my
Speaker 1: clients strive for in therapy is integration of separate pieces
Speaker 1: of self. Integration of all these different components. Those are
Speaker 1: all very important things that I think about in conceptualizing
Speaker 1: a client case. Also, really integrating all these things that
Speaker 1: may feel disconnected or disjointed is what allows you to
Speaker 1: continue to be authentic and move through the world as
Speaker 1: somebody that you feel really comfortable being, somebody that you
Speaker 1: want to be around. Thank you so much for sharing
Speaker 1: that very powerful everyone who's been listening and watching at home,
Speaker 1: I hope today's episode has been enlightening in so many
Speaker 1: different ways in not only the process of therapy, which
Speaker 1: is what we started with but in helping each and
Speaker 1: every one of us recognize more coherently the amount of
Speaker 1: work that we need to do as individuals and as
Speaker 1: a society. I think that's ultimately what I always take
Speaker 1: away in these conversations is just how much progress we
Speaker 1: need to make individually and collectively. And I think anyone
Speaker 1: who's listening too on purpose is dedicated to that. Believe
Speaker 1: that everyone is dedicated to their personal growth and the
Speaker 1: growth of the society around them. And when we recognize
Speaker 1: that those two things are not disconnected, that they're actually
Speaker 1: one and the same. I often say to people, if
Speaker 1: we care about ourselves, then we'll care about our kids.
Speaker 1: That's obvious. And then when you care about your kids,
Speaker 1: you care about your kids school. And then when you
Speaker 1: care about your kids school, you care about your kids down.
Speaker 1: And when you care about your kids town, you care
Speaker 1: about your kids city. And then when you care about
Speaker 1: your kids city you can't. If you care, then your
Speaker 1: care doesn't stop. And I think when we take a
Speaker 1: moment to invest in our own selves and our self
Speaker 1: care and then expand that radius out, we can create
Speaker 1: a better society for all. So thank you so much
Speaker 1: everyone who's been listening. And watching today. Thank you to
Speaker 1: your allat of SAM for joining us, opening your heart,
Speaker 1: opening your mind. Hey su Joe, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for always guiding us and helping us navigate these wonderful conversations.
Speaker 1: And to everyone who's been listening and watching at home,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for tuning in. We'll see you
Speaker 1: again on another episode of On Purpose. This episode was
Speaker 1: sponsored by Better Help Big thanks again to Hey su Joe,
Speaker 1: head of clinical Operations at Better Help. Hey su Joe
Speaker 1: is not my actual therapist, and we are not in
Speaker 1: a therapist client relationship. Also, just because you might hear
Speaker 1: something on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing,
Speaker 1: beware of self diagnosis. You want to find a qualified
Speaker 1: professional to assess and explore diagnosis if that's important to
Speaker 1: you