1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I got some hate 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: mail yesterday. Everybody's optimistic. I'm not going bearish until Dan 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Ives is bearish. Exactly what's that going to happen? We 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: have a special treat for your folks. I want to 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: frame this out as well as I can. You've got 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: a really odd headline this morning of breaking news. I'm 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: going to go right to the Bloomberg where we've got 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Trump Media to combine with a company you don't know, TAE, 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: to build nuclear fusion business. My family goes back in 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: this derby over forty years to the Lawrence Livermore Lab 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: and Paul the Endless quest to squeeze two atoms and 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: two nucleus together. Dan Ives is quite good on this. 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: We're going to talk to him with Webb Bush about 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: this combination before we talk to him about the state 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: of mag seven and technology. Dan, thank you so much 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: for joining us on short notice. I go back decades 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: on this. Fusion has been a hope and a dream forever. 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: How is Donald Trump gonna finally get us over this 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: fragile line of successful physics? 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I focus more like with THAE. 21 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: I remember they're backers because I know them from a 22 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: fusion perspective, Google, Chevron. 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: Google and Chevron have been there, two major recent players. 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know Goldman, some others. 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 3: Look, I think when it comes to nuclear fusion, what 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,279 Speaker 3: that's twenty five plus years. You're liss of the Maxwell winners, 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 3: the Nobel winners that they've had here. So I've always 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 3: viewed this is gonna be. If there's a winner in 29 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 3: the US and global nuclear fusion, it's Tha. 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: So I think that's at the centerpiece of this whole deal. 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 3: It's much more about Thae and my view than in 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: terms of the Trump angle that's always the political backing. 33 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: Is this an arms race, if you will, a fusion 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: race with China. We saw what they did with electric vehicles, 35 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: your conversant in China and AI the Nvidia chip debate 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: in that is this like getting out in front of 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: China catching up a nuclear fusion. 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: That's what it's all about. 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 3: I mean, I think you know me and you've talked 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 3: about this and you know on the show this is 41 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 3: an arms race first China. I mean, everything they're focused 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 3: on is going in two thy thirty. How they fuel 43 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: AI arms ors technology, US is way ahead of China 44 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 3: because of a video, because of Microsoft, because of Palentinger 45 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: and others. 46 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: Energies are scarce. 47 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: A guy I've always said, like energy is going to 48 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 3: be the big scarc in nuclear has to be the play. 49 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: You know, obviously there's Aco and others, but this will 50 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 3: clearly be the first fusion public play. 51 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 4: So Dan, I think most people understand the Trump Media 52 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 4: Company as a media play, a digital media play. If 53 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 4: you will, can you tell us about Thae because most 54 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 4: of us don't know a whole lot about Tha. 55 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and again Tae. I think it is the centerpiece 56 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 3: of the whole deal. I mean, even though it's a merger, 57 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 3: it's it's really about Thae. In my view, I think, look, 58 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 3: when you look, this is what twenty five, twenty eight years, 59 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: you know, most of out of California they've built I 60 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: think it's about five you know, sort of you know, 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 3: but I'll say few successful fusion buildouts this is one. 62 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 3: I think it's five Nobels, so many Maxwell's, you know, 63 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: in terms of from scientists that have been through their 64 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 3: schwab backing, you know, it's kind of who's who in 65 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: terms of what they've had back. But this has really 66 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 3: been one coming out of the col system science community, 67 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: and that's always what it was known as. 68 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: It was always sort of a gem in the science community. 69 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: And I noticed Jeff Ammil was a former board member. 70 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: But with Tae, folks to see Eugene money is there, 71 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: who was just absolutely definitive across all political lines of America. 72 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Doctor monies of course associated with MIT. They let's say 73 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: Dan as a statement, Tae has a heavyweight board, but 74 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: you got to get something done. Going back to Lawrence 75 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: Livermore lab ages ago, it's a lot of theory, it's 76 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: a lot of politics, including the Advance Act accelerating deployment 77 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: of versatile advanced nuclear for clean energy. It sounds like 78 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: an episode Dan ivesa Get Smart, except you're too young 79 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: to remember Get Smart. But the answer is, is there 80 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: any indication fusion will work? 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 2: Oh? 82 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 3: I think that's that's you don't do this deal. But 83 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 3: you don't think this is going to work. I mean, 84 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 3: if you look with Tae is done, it's not just 85 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 3: I think like the best bet from a US perspective and. 86 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: Even global relative to energy. 87 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: And clearly there have been obviously so many starts and 88 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 3: stops when it comes to fusion but I do believe 89 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: this is one where when you look at breakthroughs combined 90 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 3: with what you'd get from a capital perspective, because we've 91 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: always said like that's part of the arms rais. That's 92 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 3: why this would be such unique COMBA. 93 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: You know, Paul, this is great. I want to thank 94 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: the Kliman Center for Energy Policy at the University of 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania for getting me up to speed on this. They 96 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: got a chart in here from sort Bone nineteen fifteen, 97 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: a proposed power plant. It looks like the set of Silo, right, 98 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what Ye's landman in hydrocarbons. The fusion 99 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: thing looks like the set of Silo. 100 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 4: It's exactly what it dan from Tha East perspective. Why 101 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 4: are they merging with Trump's media President Trump's media company R. 102 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: I think probably two reasons, right, I mean one capital, 103 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: I'm I think Trump you will get like two two 104 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: and a half billion cash and you know bigcoins your 105 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: capital you get right away if you did this right 106 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 3: as I suppose, if it just merged into just a 107 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 3: regular spot, they'd have new capital. 108 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: So that's one. 109 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 3: And obviously it's political backing, right, I mean implied to 110 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: Trump administration it's essentially kind of them picking the winner 111 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: more or less. I think that's how it be viewed. 112 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: Dan, Let us migrate over to technology right now. Of 113 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: course it's a day to day thing. My book of 114 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: the summer, I think a year ago two years ago 115 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: is Chipwar. It was just a fabulous book, and Shipwoark 116 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: showed how discrete and apart Micron of Idaho is. They're 117 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 1: really really good at making simple technology, simple semiconductors and such, Dan, iives, 118 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: what did you glean from the Micron optimism we saw yesterday? 119 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: Look, I mean you talk about like the right news 120 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 3: at the right time relative to nervousness Oracle data center, 121 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 3: you know. 122 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: And obviously a lot of the war is about the 123 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: build out. 124 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 3: Look that is just for the validation demand, the supply 125 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 3: ten to one, right, twelve to one. It just shows 126 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 3: what's happening in terms of these AI buildouts. And of 127 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 3: course NVIDI and AIM, the another from Micron is obviously 128 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 3: front and center relative. 129 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: To uh, you know what I kind of view as the. 130 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: Core sort of you know, barometer relative to these AI buildouts. 131 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 3: And I think that's investors are going to view this. 132 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: I think it's come some nerves, especially given where we 133 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 3: are with the lack of news relative to companies coming pulse. 134 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: That's the huge thing here. You've experienced this too, so 135 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: that can pop Micron in the last ten years. Yeah, 136 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 1: it's it's just appalling thirty three point two percent per year. Yep, 137 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: that's for the recent moonshot. 138 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 4: Hey, Dan, just with this deal with TAE today, just 139 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 4: highlight for us again kind of what to what extent 140 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 4: will power and access to power and the grid be 141 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 4: maybe a headwind for this AI rollout in development. 142 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: Look, I mean today three percent of companies have gone 143 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 3: down the AI path. 144 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: I mean you get the twenty percent you don't essentially 145 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: have enough power. 146 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 3: So obviously right now in terms of a grid solar 147 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 3: that's going to be sort of important in terms of 148 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: stop gaps. 149 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: But but to me, the only way you get there 150 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: is nuclear. 151 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 3: And like I've said, like nuclear has to be the answer, 152 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 3: and you have a clean energy right when it comes 153 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: to fusion, like this is gonna be the bet you 154 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: gotta make big bets quick and obviously TA in my 155 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: own view in the US that that continues to be 156 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: probably the best bet we have. 157 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: I have real trouble with this Dan, because I've seen 158 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: decades and decades and decades of yeah, we're gonna do it, 159 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: We're gonna do it, cross our fingers, hope to die, 160 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: We're gonna do nuclear fusion. In your research, I mean, 161 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: people don't realize this, but away from the camera lives 162 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: actually works. 163 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: Short. 164 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you see imminent research where someone at Google 165 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: and Physics can say this stuff is gonna work. 166 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 167 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: I mean, look, I don't think Google, Chevron, you know, Gold, 168 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: and I think many other tech players that you know 169 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: that have looked at this company, they're not doing it 170 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 3: if nothing's happened. I mean, I truly believe like they've 171 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 3: had breakthroughs, which is what's unique after obviously decades and decades, 172 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 3: like you've said, coming out of labs of the. 173 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: Theory, but not actually being able to scale. 174 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: Dan Asa, this is what Bush. We continue here this morning. 175 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: We welcome all of you across at the nation, around 176 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: the world. Good evening on the Pacific, rim a place 177 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: or mister Ives visits often, good evening over to India 178 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: as well. Tom Kane and Paul Sweeney, Dan. 179 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 4: What's the as you think about twenty twenty six and 180 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 4: you travel a lot meeting with institutional investors meeting with 181 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 4: companies within the tech space, what's kind of the number 182 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 4: one talking point for twenty twenty six. 183 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 2: I think it's also. 184 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: It's modernization of AI right, in other words, it's to 185 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 3: build out what the use cases look like, not just 186 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: on the enterprise and on the consumer side. And it 187 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: will get to race right like from Meta to Microsoft 188 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 3: to you know whoever, from a cap backs perstructive. That 189 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: continues to be the focus demondization, and I think that's 190 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 3: going to define the winners quickly. 191 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: Or Dan ives I got January twenty ninth of next 192 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: year twenty six, twenty twenty six Microsoft earnings. I agree 193 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: with you, Dan. Part of the angst here is an 194 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: information vacuum. What's the information you're going to see it 195 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: four point fifteen in the afternoon January twenty ninth from MSFT. 196 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 3: I think it's the monization from AZRO and what you 197 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 3: see from AI. I think the reality is is that 198 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: thirty percent of the Microsoft deals are track and have 199 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 3: been accelerated when it comes to AI over the last 200 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,479 Speaker 3: few months. So as that plays out and the forecast 201 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 3: plays out and they reiterate their cap backs, I think 202 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 3: it's further validation. Now when it comes to the enterprise, 203 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: Microsoft is going to be the core winner. 204 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: When it comes to AI, I. 205 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: Think that to get the nuclear fusion thing over the line, 206 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: they've got to merge dan ives, Bright Pink and Bright 207 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: Green jackets together. That'll get there the entropy to get 208 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: us to a success full of fusion. Danis short notice. 209 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: We excuse me, T didn't work today after the English breakfast, 210 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: it didn't work, Dan Eyes wet Bush on short notice. 211 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: A trooper there to inform us on this fusion transaction.