1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We are returning to you with some 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: classic episodes from the evenings of your Full Disclosure. We 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: are right now recording with our super producer Andrew in 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: a variety of hotels in New York City. 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: It's true, some of us near walls apart. 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: It's the future. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 3: It's a brave new world. 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: And guys, I got a hot take. You ready, Okay, 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: Nazis aren't cool? 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I could get with that. I mean, that's okay, 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: get good. 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 2: Not that hot. 13 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: As it turns out, it reminds me of a Norm McDonald, nol, 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: the famous, famous comedian who had himself some takes on Nazis. 15 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: And what a great setup for this classic episode. Guys, 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: we talk a lot about Nazis, you know, like looking 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: back through the show, more than anybody ever should. 18 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, they did a lot of pretty horrendous things. They 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,639 Speaker 4: plundered a whole bunch and somehow they managed to fund 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 4: a giant military right, so there are all these rumors 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 4: about where that money came from, where did all the 22 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 4: plundered stuff go to? 23 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 3: And when they weren't plundering and hoarding their gold like 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 3: smoug the Dragon, they were also chasing Indiana Jones around 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 3: and you know, trying to summon demons from ancient religious relics. 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, we asked ourselves, is there any truth 27 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: or is there any factual basis to the very many 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: Nazi gold conspiracies and Nazi making conspiracies that continue in 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: the modern day. I think it's fair to say we 30 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: were all surprised by what we discovered. 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 4: Yes, as will you be. 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 5: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 35 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 5: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. 36 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 4: Hello, Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 37 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 4: my name is Noel. 38 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined, as always in 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: spirit with our super producer Paul Mission Control Decan. Today 40 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: we are joined in person with our super producer Seth Johnson, 41 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: who you may recognize from earlier episodes. Most importantly, you 42 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff 43 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. We're We're diving back 44 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: into the storied world depicted in action and venture films 45 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: from the seventies and the eighties and the nineties. You 46 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: know the kind of national treasure Indiana Jones, three Kings 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: sort of vibe. 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: Can steal a declaration of independence? 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 4: No, now, well and well kind of. I mean they're 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 4: going to steal all kinds of treasure from countries across Europe, and. 51 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: That cha wealth is an independence of sorts. Right, we 52 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: were talking off air about our various lottery plans. I 53 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 1: don't know if I ever shared it with you, Matt. 54 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: My list of pranks to pull is an eccentric billionaire. 55 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 4: Oh no, it's your Google doc and Hodgman on. 56 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: Its Google doc. Yeah, it's an old one. Yeah, but 57 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: I keep it just you know, if something occurs, it's 58 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: good to have sort of a vision board of sorts. 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 4: And it's also a good idea to give Google a 60 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 4: heads up. 61 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know the love, the love 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: what I have in store for the planet. So we 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: are talking about treasure, literal tons of gold stolen during 64 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: wartime and hidden away. This story takes place in World 65 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: War Two, but it's it's not unique because we know 66 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: that the chaos left in the wake of global conflicts 67 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: is were many people an opportunity? What's that old line? 68 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: Chaos as a ladder. I believe that was from Game 69 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: of Thrones. Perhaps maybe there's a little finger. Yeah, okay, yeah, 70 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: so little Finger was not commenting on the Nazi regime, 71 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: but for members of the Nazi regime, that statement holds true. 72 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: Here are the facts. First. First things first, the Nazi 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: Party stole not a ton of stuff. They stole tons 74 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: and tons of things, thousands of tons, millions of tons 75 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: of stuff. And it's common knowledge that they looted numerous groups. 76 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: They took the assets of victims of the Holocaust, of 77 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: citizens and repressed countries. They looted entire banks of countries 78 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: when they occupied them. 79 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and you can you can kind of begin 80 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 4: to understand the pattern. When you have an invading army 81 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 4: that goes into one place that is not controlled by 82 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 4: you or your government, then you essentially are victorious militarily. 83 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 4: Then the spoil, unfortunately go to you, and then you 84 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 4: use those to then fund the next one that you enter. 85 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 4: And it really is like this huge series of bank 86 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 4: heists that we can kind of see painted across Europe 87 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 4: during World War Two. 88 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: And you know, one thing I noticed is that none 89 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: of the invading or occupying forces ever took the money 90 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: that they had and put it towards supporting the people. 91 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: It was always just as you said, to further fund 92 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: expansionist ambitions. We know that Germany when it was under 93 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: control of the Nazi Party had a real dilemma, a 94 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: physical limit to the amount of resources that they could 95 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: generate within their own domain. So they had to they 96 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: had to get liquidity, they had to get wealth. They 97 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: were able to get a bunch of gold, and they 98 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: needed help swapping that gold for currency that they could 99 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: then use to acquire the stuff they needed. But didn't 100 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: have high quality iron, oil, tungsten, other materials like that, 101 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: and so they went to the neutral powers, the neutral 102 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: countries in this conflict, like Switzerland that's going to be 103 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: one of the stars of our show today, And they 104 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: asked Swiss banks and Swiss institutions to help them transfer gold, 105 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: transfer currencies, and commodities between nations. Because even though there 106 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: was a war going on, businesses kept running, right, Banks 107 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: were still in play, very much so. 108 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,119 Speaker 2: And likely profiting from said war in some ways. 109 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: Absolutely, IBM as well. 110 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 4: It wasn't just banks, oh oh, absolutely, But then you know, 111 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 4: you see this as the new system that is created 112 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 4: for their money necessities the right the third Reich, and 113 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 4: it kind of works for a time, but then as 114 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 4: the well, it's not. They didn't know the war was 115 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 4: coming to a close. But as things weren't going so 116 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 4: well for the Axis powers, and as the Allied powers 117 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 4: are gaining more and more allies and gaining more and 118 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 4: more support, it's harder and harder for the Nazi Party 119 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 4: to use a lot of these third party neutral countries 120 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 4: to do a lot of this fencing essentially. 121 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: Exactly, yes, And I love that you're using the phrase fencing, 122 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: because this system was a system of laundering resources and 123 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: fencing stolen goods. By nineteen forty four, the writing was 124 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: on the wall. Businesses, governments, access and Allied powers alike 125 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: knew that the war was not going to keep going, 126 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: and Germany became more and more reliant on institutions in 127 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: Switzerland because other neutral parties started to acquiesce to Allied 128 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: demands and they said, look, we've got to put some 129 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: distance between you can't we can't accept gold and coins 130 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: right now, our specie as they're called. We also are 131 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: going to be less and less likely to accept Reich marks. 132 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: And now Germany has the option of paying with foreign currency. 133 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: But it turns out that years of belligerents and militarism 134 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: often don't leave governments with a lot of foreign currency 135 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: because they burn a lot of bridges, literally to the 136 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: ground exactly. 137 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 6: So these banks essentially became clearing houses for stolen German 138 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 6: gold from numerous occupied countries that could then be converted 139 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 6: to a less objectionable form of currency and medium, if 140 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 6: you will. Diplomatic cables from the time support this, for example, 141 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 6: the fact that the Swiss National Bank actually helped the 142 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 6: German Reichsbank convert an estimated fifteen million in stolen Dutch 143 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 6: gold and they didn't ask any questions. 144 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: That's the craziest part. 145 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: No, they asked, dud, my bank asks question. 146 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 6: If I deposit more than five thousand dollars, Like how 147 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 6: it's you know what I mean, Like, it's it's insane. 148 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: The level of brazen crookedness. 149 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: In this situation here, right yeah. 150 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 4: Well yeah, but it's from an objective stance, it's really 151 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 4: messed up. Because if you are a banking institution and 152 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 4: your primary goals are the primary goals of controlling as 153 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 4: much money as possible to be able to pump out 154 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 4: more money and loan. So then take more money in 155 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 4: and you get an offer of fifteen million dollars to 156 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 4: be deposited. Depending on where it's coming from, maybe it 157 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 4: doesn't matter so much at least I don't know. That's 158 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 4: really looking at in a cold way and it's it sucks. 159 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: Well. There's also plausible deniability. 160 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 4: Exactly who knows, I yeah, well we do know kind 161 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 4: of with the through the cables, but the exact way 162 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 4: in which the Swiss bank was approached with the money. 163 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: Right right where they approached the a proxy or or something. 164 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: That's why the Swiss National Bank example is important, because 165 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: it was the actual German state actor bank that was 166 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: interactive with them directly. This is strange because sure one 167 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: could say that, let's say I'm the head of a 168 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: Swiss bank. One could say, well, I see so many 169 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: transactions all the time. We move a lot of a 170 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: lot of money around the world. We work in volume. Baby, 171 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: I can't be line item checking every single Nazi gold request. Yeah, 172 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if Swiss bankers are that 173 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: casual at that time, but we do know this was 174 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: a very common practice. According to the CIA, German efforts 175 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: to acquire foreign currency and converted to war materials became 176 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: increasingly clandestine as the Allied forces were encroaching and as 177 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: the war was turning in their favor. 178 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 4: Well, it makes total sense, right, and it matches right 179 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 4: up with our lines episode, where like you said, as 180 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 4: they're seeing the writing on the wall, they're going to 181 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 4: try and secret away this money, just as they secreted 182 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 4: away themselves and the important officers and scientists and things 183 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 4: they wanted to be able to control it later. 184 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: Perhaps, yes, that was the idea, and that's what the 185 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: Allied forces believed was happening. For Germany, a lot of 186 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: problems cropped up very quickly. They had these long term 187 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: exchange agreements, right, we'll give you x amount of whatever 188 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: over why amount of years, and in return you'll give 189 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: us oil or iron gas, et cetera. Now those are impossible. 190 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: Neutral countries will no longer do them because they're like, 191 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: why would I agree to do something with you for 192 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: five years? It's it's not looking good for you, you know. 193 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: And now the neutral parties will only work with Germany 194 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: on what they called a cash and carry basis, one 195 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: off short term transactions. Still for Germany it's better than nothing, 196 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: but the way in which they interacted changed too. They 197 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: started to want more proxies, more private entities to deal 198 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: with them, so we could say, for instance, oh, well, 199 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: well wasn't the government of Switzerland. 200 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 4: Absolutely, Or it wasn't even this major bank. It was 201 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 4: like a smaller part of this bank. 202 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: A subsidiary of some sort, right, And this gives Allied 203 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: observers some pause, and they start to believe that there 204 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: is a conspiracy. They think perhaps the German forces are 205 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: pretending to fall, pretending to surrender, and that they will 206 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: reaggregate all this stuff they have stolen and they will 207 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: launch a fourth Reich. 208 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 4: And to listeners who've been here for a while, that 209 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 4: may remind you of the long game deception ideas that 210 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 4: were born out of the Cold War and the fall 211 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 4: of the Soviet Union. You could kind of apply the 212 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 4: same deals. At least that's what the CIA was believed. 213 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: Exactly, And that's why the United Kingdom and the United 214 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: States launched Operation safe Haven, which we'll explore a little 215 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: bit further, but for now just know it exists, and 216 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: Operations safe Haven and other endeavors were somewhat successful. We 217 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: found some of the stolen treasure, we recovered some of 218 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: the Gold in nineteen forty four in December, when Allied 219 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: forces created safe Haven, they wanted to They didn't want 220 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: to take it for themselves, at least the way it 221 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: was stated. Instead, what they were trying to do was 222 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: find the Heidi holes, the bolt holes of treasure hidden 223 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: away by German forces in neutral countries, and then they 224 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: would take that money and they would move these funds 225 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: to what they called safe havens. These would be British 226 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: or American humanitarian organizations most often, and this was meant 227 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: to sure assist those organizations in their humanitarian endeavors, but 228 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: it was also meant to disperse Nazi wealth, to leave 229 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: no financial stone standing upon another financial stone. They wanted 230 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: to cripple any further attempts to resurrect the regime. 231 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 4: And the you know, there are some people listening saying, oh, 232 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 4: you know, the language that's used in creating something like 233 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 4: operations safe Haven, even the term safe haven when it's 234 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 4: being transferred to a country with such a large military 235 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 4: force that is kind of going through and then dominating, right, 236 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 4: and then saying oh, we're going to take all this stuff, 237 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 4: We're going to put it over, you know, in places 238 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 4: that we control. But it's gonna be safe there. You 239 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 4: guys are cool. Everything's fine. 240 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: It goes to a good cause. 241 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, everything's great. It's not the same thing as what 242 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 4: the Nazis just did and took it all and then 243 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 4: you know, hit it away for their own purposes. We 244 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 4: promise it's fine. It's called a safe haven, right, you know. 245 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 4: And you can just see the parallels there, depending on 246 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 4: how you feel about the operations of the United States government. Anyway, 247 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 4: I'm just putting that out there. 248 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent point. And there's a massive 249 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: hole in this story because you see, despite the efforts 250 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: of the Allies, no one was able to locate all 251 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: of the stolen gold, all of the stolen art and 252 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: other assets looted from Germany's victims. In fact, in nineteen 253 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: sixty six, the British Foreign Office reported that of all 254 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: the gold stolen from occupied lands, victims of the Holocaust, 255 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: War casualties and so on, only one tenth of it. Only 256 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: ten percent had ever been located and returned. So our 257 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: question today is where did the rest of the treasure go? 258 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 4: And we'll get to that right after a word from 259 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 4: our sponsor. 260 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So since pretty much right 261 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: after the close of World War Two, even a little 262 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: bit before the war, there were multiple rumors and conspiracy 263 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: theories about Nazi gold, and they popped in and out 264 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: of official reports and your favorite mainstream news and your 265 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: favorite investigative documentaries and stuff. Ever since. They still come 266 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: out today. 267 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 4: I'm yeah, the History Channel loves it. 268 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I was gonna say, I'm fairly certain that you 269 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: can turn on the History Channel on this weekend and 270 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, have a thirty forty percent chance of 271 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: running into a Nazi gold story. 272 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean I literally watched a clip from 273 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 4: a show called Codes and Conspiracies where it was a 274 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: clip about one of the things we're going to talk 275 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 4: about today, and it wasn't that long ago when it 276 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 4: came out. 277 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: And here's the thing about it. These rumors and these stories, 278 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: these alleged locations of this lost treasure, they may vary 279 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: in plausibility, but it's so fascinating to people because there 280 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: are proven cases of this stuff being discovered, and there 281 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: are also cases where this stuff seems to almost have 282 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: been discovered and then poof disappeared from the news. 283 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's when you get into real suspicion about 284 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 4: things like operations safe Haven, where you're just like, uh man, 285 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 4: ninety percent of the stuff is still out there. We don't, 286 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 4: are we sure? We're like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. 287 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: Oh man. 288 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: Should we talk about some examples? 289 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 4: Sure? 290 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: So how about the SS Menden. 291 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, the German cargo ship scuttled near Iceland during 292 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: the early days of World War Two, So this is 293 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: before the close it was suspected to contain this huge 294 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: trove of Nazi gold. 295 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: How about we we cite one of our favorite sources, 296 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: Fox News. 297 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: I put I know, I know in the notes there. 298 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: It's true. It's it's a good article. 299 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 2: Look are you well you know they're not all y whatever. 300 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 6: So this merchant vessel one hundred and twenty nautical miles 301 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 6: south of Ice centers in the international spotlight after the 302 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 6: chest with around four tons of Nazi gold was discovered 303 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 6: in the wreck. 304 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 4: Four tons of Nazi goal? 305 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 6: Four tons of Nazi goal? Does that mean it like 306 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 6: in the movies? Does the Nazi gold have swastikas on it? 307 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 6: How they identify I was stamped? 308 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 309 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 2: Maybe unclear? 310 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 4: I mean you would certainly know if he found it 311 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 4: that way. 312 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: Well, also it depends on the provenance of the gold. 313 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: If they stole it from another country, that's probably not 314 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: that That's what. 315 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 2: I was thinking exactly. So this hall was valued at 316 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: around one hundred million pounds, which as we know, is 317 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 2: more than dollars. 318 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 4: I think. This is a story from twenty eighteen, and 319 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 4: they estimated it as one hundred and thirteen million years exactly. 320 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: And yeah, okay, here's the official story of what happened. 321 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: On September twenty fourth, nineteen thirty nine, the ship was 322 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: intercepted by two British cruisers and the captain of the 323 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: Mendon had specific orders for this situation, which was do 324 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: not be captured or do not let the cargo be captured. 325 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: So he sank the ship on purpose with everything aboard, 326 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: and the shipwreck was discovered or rediscovered I should say, 327 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: in spring of twenty seventeen. And then things get a 328 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: little fuzzy because they had to get permission from the 329 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: authorities in Iceland to investigate the wreckage and they conduct 330 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: They eventually in twenty eighteen were able to search it 331 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: for about three days and then after that operation, the 332 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: search team, a UK based company called Advanced Marine Services, 333 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: said to Iceland that no items of value were found. 334 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: Of course, again that's the official story, and there are 335 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: going to be a lot of people who just won't 336 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: believe those folks, regardless of the facts. So this one 337 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: is interesting because now we have to ask ourselves, did 338 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: somebody take the safe or the chest before the official search? 339 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: Why was the search so stymied by bureaucratic red tape? 340 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I know. It makes you think maybe 341 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 4: there's a small group of rogue treasure hunters out there 342 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 4: that got there first, or Buyork okay. 343 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: Or Buork or maybe she's you know what, I don't 344 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: want a pigeon oler, I'm going to get. 345 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 7: The treasure treasure I like the Gowld. We'll go deep 346 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 7: into the waters and find the heat and James, they 347 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 7: will be guarded by the King of the Sea. 348 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds like Byork. Yeah. So what we're going 349 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: to see as we explore some more of these examples 350 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: is that, like a lot of conspiracy theories or rumors 351 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: or speculation, there's a categorical thing a play. Certain tropes 352 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: pop up over and over. The gold's usually said to 353 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: be hidden in banks held by the Vatican, of course, 354 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: or lost in some place that's difficult to access, like 355 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: a sunken vessel at the bottom of the ocean, or 356 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: a mine for instance. 357 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 4: That was then collapsed on purpose, or something where it's 358 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 4: very very difficult, if not impossible, to get there. So 359 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 4: let's you mentioned the v word. Let's let's let's talk 360 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 4: about the Vatican and why they perhaps are a viable 361 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 4: suspect for where some of this treasure ended up. 362 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, So the US State Department back in nineteen 363 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: forty six, shortly after the war's closed, receives this top 364 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: secret report from an agent named Emerson Bigelow, and Emerson says, 365 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: I have heard from the OSS, the predecessor to the CIA, 366 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: that there is something rotten going on with the Vatican 367 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: and Nazi gold from World War Two, or Nazi finances 368 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: at least. And this this report is later called the 369 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: Bigelow Report. Sometimes you'll hear it called the Bigelow Memo. 370 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't declassified until decades later, in nineteen ninety six, 371 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: and it wasn't released until nineteen ninety seven. Here's what 372 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: the report says. It says back in nineteen forty four, 373 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: the Vatican took three hundred and fifty million Swiss francs 374 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: worth of Nazi gold for quote unquote safe keeping, and 375 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: of that, one hundred and fifty million Swiss francs have 376 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: been impounded by British authorities at the Austro Swiss border. 377 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: So where did all this stuff go? What is safekeeping? 378 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: What is the safe haven? Right? Yeah, according to Bigelow, 379 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: the safe haven here is a numbered Swiss bank account 380 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: and controlled by the Vatican, and that in Bigelow goes 381 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: on to say that more than two hundred million Swiss 382 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: francs worth of gold coins are transferred to Vatican City 383 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: or to the Vatican Bank, which is known as the 384 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: Institute for Works of Religion, with the assistance of the clergy. 385 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 4: And then it goes on to state that perhaps, or 386 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 4: it's believed at least that then this money was funneled 387 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 4: to places like Argentina and Brazil, where again it's the 388 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 4: same thing where we where we looked at in our 389 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 4: rat Lines episode, where the Vatican was assisting people or 390 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 4: at least was alleged to be assisting people and found 391 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 4: to be assisting people a few times. Nazis in particular 392 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 4: to get to places like Argentina in Brazil. 393 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, we were careful in that episode 394 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: to say this doesn't mean the Vatican overall was doing 395 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: it. It could be factions within this very large organization, but 396 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: representatives of the Vatican at the very least helped. We 397 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: should note that even today the Vatican Bank denies this. 398 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: They say there's no basis in reality to the report 399 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: to the Bigelow memo. So it goes down to you 400 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: know who you trust to safekeep to safekeep? Who do 401 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: you trust to safekeep? There's a there's a weird situation 402 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: going on in Bavaria that we found via the sun, 403 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: and the sun is the The sun is not a 404 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: source that I would quote if I were writing a 405 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: high school or college paper. But they've got that kind 406 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: of tabloid vibe. Sometimes it's like go on par with 407 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: the mail Maybe yep, exactly. But there's there's a great 408 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: story that they tell about a treasure hunter named Hans Gluk. 409 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: Hans Gluk is what is Gluke mean? Luck? Cool? Well, 410 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: Hans luck. Then Hans Gluke was seventy six back in 411 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and he'd been searching for this trove of 412 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: gold diamonds artwork and for some reason rare postage stamps, 413 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: which are still a big thing for twenty years. He 414 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: has based on an old map that he found. He 415 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: has he has become certain that he's pinpointed this Nazi 416 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: treasure that was lost on on a train. Here's what happened, 417 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: according to him and according to the Sun, during the 418 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: close of the war, Heinrich Himler greenlit this bank heist, 419 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, he greenlit an inside job bank heist. 420 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: And he told his deputy, a fellow named Ernst Carlton Brunner, 421 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: to empty the Berlin Reich's bank of loot and put 422 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: it all on a train and send it to the Alps. 423 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: And they thought, you know, after the wars officially declared over, 424 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,239 Speaker 1: will still be able to fight, will be funded by 425 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: this treasure, will essentially be gorillas, you know, we move 426 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: in the night, will hide behind the trees, will disrupt 427 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: into me supply lines and so on. And they wanted 428 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: to have the train cross the border into Austria and 429 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: then they would store all this stuff from the train 430 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: in assault mine. But the Russians were advancing, the Allied 431 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: aircraft were just cloppering the place. So the train hid 432 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: in a tunnel for three days, and the SS there 433 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: had had a functioning radio post nearby in the forest 434 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: at a place called iraq a rr acch and according 435 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: to Hans Gluk, this is where the treasure ultimately ended up. 436 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: We know that at some point the train was stuck 437 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: in that tunnel, right. We don't know what happened to 438 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: the treasure after it. We do know that Soviet troops 439 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: were able to intercept or report from that Nazi radio post, 440 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: and the report simply read in German something like command 441 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: executed transport of guards taken over stored in bscchw asked 442 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: for further instructions. It all hinges on what that abbreviation means. 443 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, it really does well. And you know, if you 444 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 4: go through and you read that whole story on the Sun, 445 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 4: it's one of it. Like Ben said, it's one of 446 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 4: those that feels a little far fetched. But again, anytime 447 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 4: there are seeds of truth within something like this, I 448 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 4: don't think you can all out dismiss it, right, I 449 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,239 Speaker 4: mean just I would recommend hey go over to the 450 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 4: Sun check out gold nine n ei N which just 451 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 4: means gold no, and it says treasure hunter finds five 452 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 4: hundred million dollars worth of gold Nazi gold in a 453 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 4: Bavarian forest, but landowner won't let him dig it. 454 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: Up right right, Just a little more about the story, 455 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: do you know it is? We do know that there 456 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: was some treasure in play because the guy who mentioned 457 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: Carlton Bruner, he gets away for a time. He goes 458 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: to Austria, where he's from, and he's not arrested until 459 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: May twelfth, nineteen forty five. But in the garden at 460 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: his house, like buried, I think in a beat patch, 461 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: they find seventy six kilograms of gold in six gold bars. 462 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: And that's that's clearly a case of like how much 463 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: can I physically carry with me when I'm running cash 464 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: and carry cash and carry? Yes, just so. And Carlton 465 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: Bruner was found guilty of war crimes at Neuro he 466 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: was executing on October sixteenth. He never told anybody where 467 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: the loot went. But Gluke was contacted by an old 468 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: man with a strange tale about an SS officer shipped 469 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: to Siberia who had sown a map of sorts into 470 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: the lining of his coat. And this is what led 471 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: Luke off on his merry adventure, his frustrating chase. Right now, 472 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: as you can tell from the title that Matt just read, 473 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: as far as we can see, the excavation or the 474 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: search is still being held up because the person who 475 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: owns the property says, you know, hey, I'm maybe I'll 476 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: find it, or Hans Gluke is accusing them of that. 477 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And just so, I mean, it's so interesting 478 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 4: the way this kind of thing plays out. It feels 479 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 4: like the watch story from Pulpictures. Yeah it is Pulplican, Yeah, 480 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 4: where it's this thing, this map in this case instead 481 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 4: of a watch. And again there are no cavities involved 482 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 4: necessarily other than the cavity and the coat, I guess. 483 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 4: But it's an important thing that got passed down and 484 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 4: passed down because you know, it went from this guy 485 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 4: who was important enough that he knew he was going 486 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 4: to get killed as soon as he entered a camp, 487 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 4: gave it to another pow and like in hopes that 488 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 4: it would make it back somewhere to someone. And now 489 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 4: it went to this other guy and now he's searching 490 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 4: for the treasure, but it's on this other person's land 491 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 4: and he just can't go in there. And you know, 492 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 4: dig up things willy nilly, or even follow the map 493 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 4: to exactly where it is, because he wouldn't be able 494 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 4: to dig it up because he wouldn't own it. 495 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: It would be a great plot for a film, right, Yeah, 496 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: And we have more examples ahead, including some that are 497 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: a little closer to home. After a word from our sponsors, 498 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: let's talk about Lake Toplets. 499 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 4: All right. Lake Toplets. 500 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: It's a fun name. It's also the source of a 501 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: World War two legend. According to this story, the Nazi 502 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: Party dumped billions of dollars worth of stolen gold somewhere 503 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: around to the tune of five point six billion dollars 504 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: worth into an isolated lake, Lake Toplets, in a forest 505 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: in the Alps. Yeah. 506 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 6: In history dot com reports that in the forties, the 507 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 6: Nazis actually use this lake as a testing site for 508 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 6: naval equipment, and the mountains around it as a series 509 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 6: of strongholds, well more, I guess, retreats, kind of you 510 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 6: could say, for their military officers. Than In fifty nine, 511 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 6: investigators found seven hundred million pounds worth of counterfeit banknotes 512 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 6: that Hitler actually had a pretty sinister plan to use 513 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 6: to sabotage Britain's economy. In what way do you think 514 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 6: ben to flood. 515 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: Flooded with cash? Yeah, exactly, and then the cash would 516 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: be worthless if the new are good enough, there's no 517 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: way to discern the fake ones from the real ones. 518 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 6: Isn't that one of those conspiracy theories people are always 519 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 6: talking about China, Like China could do that devalue our currency, 520 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 6: about flooding because they've like stockpiled all this American currency 521 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 6: and they could like affect our economy by like flooding 522 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 6: us with cash. 523 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's a different kind of thing in this case. 524 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 4: Imagine the chaos of seven hundred million dollars just being 525 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 4: at play now that you know is counterfeit. You don't 526 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 4: even know how much is out there. Like if you're 527 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 4: on the Allied side or the United States side, you 528 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 4: would have no idea how much is actually in the system, 529 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 4: but you would know that, Oh my god, a great 530 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 4: portion of the exchanges that are occurring within our economy 531 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 4: right now are happening with phony money, and now every 532 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 4: single transaction is going. 533 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: To happen to question. 534 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 535 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it especially given how fragile the British economy is 536 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: at the time, because you know, London had been bombed 537 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: left and right, and it was definitely in a recur period. 538 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: The interesting thing about what you said, Nol regarding the 539 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: idea of currency devaluing, it's another theory. It could happen. 540 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: The only difference would be that the assets the government 541 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: of China would hold in that situation would be real 542 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: and not counterfeit. The best counterfeit notes, though US notes, 543 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: are from that part of the world. They're the North 544 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,239 Speaker 1: Korean supernotes. According to the Treasury Department. The way you 545 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 1: can tell a North Korean supernote from a real one 546 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: hundred dollars bill is that the supernote looks better. It's 547 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: like a better bill. 548 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 6: We did a story on Ridiculous History about this very thing, 549 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 6: where there was a very crafty gentleman who was in 550 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 6: Spain I believe, I can't remember now. He figured out 551 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 6: a way to counterfeit money and then did flood it 552 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 6: and he actually single handedly kind of wrecked the economy 553 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 6: of Portugal. 554 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: Is where it was. Yeah, yeah, he's the Portuguese banknote crisis. 555 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: And actually our show for that is the top persultant Google. 556 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: When I searched for it. 557 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 6: In school, it was Archer Alves Reyes, who was the 558 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 6: mastermind behind this but very similar scheme. Right, It wasn't 559 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 6: he wasn't trying to wreak havoc. It just kind of 560 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 6: was a byproduct of his greed. And he basically single 561 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 6: handedly toppled the banking system of Portugal in nineteen twenty five. 562 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 4: Wow. 563 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: And this this had nothing on what Hitler had planned, right, 564 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: and we have to wonder how this would have played out. 565 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: So there was some kind of treasure found already Lake Toplets, 566 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: and that was seven hundred million pounds worth of counterfeit notes. 567 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: As for the other stuff, as for billions of dollars 568 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: of gold that has yet to be found today, however, 569 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: we do have a case of some of this Nazi 570 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: gold actually being found. It was a real thing, a 571 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: real conspiracy to hide it. 572 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 4: Oh yes, And this takes us back to Operation safe 573 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 4: Haven as it was, as it was not really beginning, 574 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 4: but he was in full play here and there were 575 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 4: a group of it's actually a really large number of 576 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 4: the United States Army, the Third Army, ninetieth Infantry Division. 577 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 4: They're in Merkers, Germany, Okay, and it's as the war 578 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 4: is ending, they're kind of doing cleanup. They're trying to 579 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 4: find gold during operations safe Haven, as you mentioned before, 580 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 4: and it's April fifth, nineteen forty five, and some military 581 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 4: police from this division they come upon to refugees. Essentially, 582 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 4: they're called displaced persons. They're from France. According to ah C, 583 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 4: they were two female French citizens who were displaced and 584 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 4: there's a large amount of gold that had been transferred 585 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 4: and been moved out and then moved near Murkers somewhere. 586 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 4: But nobody could you verify any of these They're just rumors, right. 587 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: They just knew that there were frequently trucks that were 588 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: loaded it's some sort of precious object. And these trucks 589 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: were coming continually during the night. 590 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, and they were going to a very specific place 591 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 4: and it was this mine near Murkers. It was a 592 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 4: potassium mine of all things. And these women, these two 593 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 4: displaced persons for France, said, yeah, oh, do you guys 594 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 4: know about that mine? 595 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: Right? 596 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 4: With all that gold in it? Right? You guys know 597 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 4: about that? And that's all it took. Really they decided, Okay, 598 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 4: we're gonna go check this out. And they they found 599 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 4: their way by the way. General Eisenhower and General Patten 600 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 4: were a part of this little mission to go down 601 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 4: into the mine and try and see what's down there. 602 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Patten has Patten has his own crazy scheme 603 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: that we can maybe mention at the end here. But 604 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: what do they find when they go into the mine. 605 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 6: Well, a whole crap ton of gold, seven thousand sacks 606 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 6: of gold bullion to be precise, and an underground area 607 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 6: that was around seventy five feet deep one hundred and 608 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 6: fifty feet wide, And the mine also had ninety eight 609 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 6: million francs French francs, and the. 610 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 4: There's also a ton of gold coin that has recovered 611 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 4: down there, separate from the bullion. 612 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 6: And this absolute Smorgsborg of currency wasn't even the most 613 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 6: alarming thing that they found down there. They also found 614 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 6: luggage with gold fillings that had been extracted from yeah, 615 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 6: you guessed it, concentration camp detainees. 616 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 4: And you can actually see some film that was taken 617 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 4: around or of that time of what they found there, 618 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 4: a lot of still photographs, some like I said, film, 619 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 4: and it I don't even know how to describe it 620 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 4: unless you Unless you see it, you won't understand such 621 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 4: a large container of the gold from human beings mouths. 622 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this this is a real thing. I think 623 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people when they first learned of this 624 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: at the close of World War Two, I think a 625 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: lot of people thought maybe it was propaganda, or maybe 626 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: it was an unnecessary exaggeration. But it was not propaganda. 627 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 1: It was not an exaggeration. They were taking people's wedding rings, 628 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: their watches, they were literally taking metal out of people's teeth. 629 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:29,479 Speaker 1: And this plunder, this Nazi gold story, we usually see 630 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: reports of it being scrolled away somewhere in Europe, right 631 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: in a mine, or in a Swiss bank, or in 632 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: the Vatican, or we see it maybe as you said, Matt, 633 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: being wired or transported somehow to South America, which also 634 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: is very plausible, but we don't often talk about the 635 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: plunder closer to home. The United States is also guilty 636 00:37:54,320 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: of these types of nefarious clandestine activities. In nineteen ninety seven, 637 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: The New York Times reported this following claim quote. In 638 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York melted 639 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: down hundreds of gold bars bearing the swastika imprint and 640 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: recast them with a pristine stamp bearing the words United 641 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: States Assay Office. At the time According to memos from 642 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: the FED, the US Treasury knew that a lot of 643 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,919 Speaker 1: the gold, worth about twenty three million at the time, 644 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: had been stolen from the Netherlands in Belgium when they 645 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: were invaded by Germany ah Operation safe Haven. Right, But 646 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 1: this is like, you know this nineteen fifty Uncle Sam 647 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: is not really asking questions, Just like the Swiss banks, 648 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: just like the other collaborating forces that we publicly despised, 649 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: the US is just taking the money and running. The 650 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: rationale here is that Uncle Sam is primarily concerned with 651 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: rebuilding Europe at this time, rather than investigating the ethical 652 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,879 Speaker 1: quandaries and the provenance of this stolen loop. But back 653 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: to New York Times, at the request of the National 654 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: City Bank, which later became City Bank, the Treasury Department 655 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: authorized the reissue of the gold, and that was, according 656 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: to this reporter, a polite phrase for purifying it and 657 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: wiping out the German markings so the gold could be 658 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: used as collateral for a transaction between Spain and the 659 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: Itt Corporation that we're trying to build a telephone system. 660 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: But here's the other problem. It gets more uncomfortable. 661 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, boyd does it? 662 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: Ever? 663 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 6: The Germans mint was known for taking gold that German 664 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 6: troops stole from central banks all over Europe and then 665 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 6: melted them down, together with those more grizzly examples of 666 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 6: plunder the tooth fillings things like wedding rings and other 667 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 6: jewelry that was looted from people who were, in turn 668 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 6: in those concentration. 669 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 2: Camps and the death camps victims. 670 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 6: Germany's goal was to put the he's lifted items into 671 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 6: a form that was a lot harder to trace and 672 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 6: then could be laundered through the Swiss National Bank. 673 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And it's hard to really know how much 674 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 4: of the kind of gold that we're talking about that 675 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 4: came from victims from concentration camps actually made it into 676 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 4: each individual gold bullyon bar or each each coin that 677 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 4: was then minted in Germany. But we do know it happened, 678 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 4: and we do know that kind of gold was also 679 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 4: just anecdotally smelted down to create fillings for SS officers. 680 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 4: That was a real thing that occurred. Hitler's own dentist, 681 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 4: the guy that he used, would do that, And of 682 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 4: course it's not proven. There are rumors all over the 683 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 4: place that specifically gold from other people's mouths ended up 684 00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 4: in Hitler's mouth, blah blah blah. But just the feeling 685 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 4: that you're probably getting just from knowing some of that, 686 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 4: that perhaps this gold that the United States melted down 687 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 4: and purified was actually from victims from concentration camps. 688 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: Perhaps, perhaps right. We'll also have to note that the 689 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: purification process, the re smelting conducted by the government, likely 690 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: wiped out all traces of what historians call hate this euphemism, 691 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,320 Speaker 1: but this is the euphemism people use non monetary gold, 692 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: you know, because it's gold that was never meant to 693 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: be currency. But if we think about it, that means 694 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: that the US had literally taken blood, money, gold ripped 695 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: from people's mouths, and there are there are more. I 696 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: know a lot of us listening today are saying, guys, 697 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: you have to talk about the Nazi gold train. So 698 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: quick mention of that. There's a local legend in Poland 699 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: that a train laden with gold had disappeared in May 700 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,760 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty five. Now the area is part of Poland, 701 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 1: but previously when this took place, it was southeast Germany. 702 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: People have searched for the train. Ever since World War Two. 703 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: No evidence of a train has been found. You'll hear 704 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: historians say that the train never existed. And in twenty 705 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: fifteen it was back in the news because people thought 706 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: that they had discovered the location of the train. In 707 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: the course of that search. It turned out they had 708 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: discovered something. It was a cavity in the rock filled 709 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: by a natural ice formation. So no train that we 710 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: know of. 711 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 4: Maybe there is a mythical train made of gold. This 712 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 4: time it was not just a train that had gold 713 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 4: in it or was carrying gold. Maybe there's a mythical 714 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 4: golden train out there somewhere that we'll learn about. 715 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: It's called the Hogwarts Express. 716 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 4: Ah's a reference. 717 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is some disturbing stuff. 718 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 4: Well, let's okay, let's get down to just when we're 719 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 4: thinking about all of this. You know, you just mentioned 720 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 4: blood money, the concept of that very real sense of 721 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 4: blood money. But when you're thinking about wars and profiting 722 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 4: from having physical conflicts like that with other countries or 723 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 4: other places, with other people, and then gaining from that 724 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 4: all those altercations and those deaths and and the blood 725 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 4: that is spilled, this kind of thing like maybe maybe 726 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 4: we forget because we're so inundated in like our culture 727 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 4: in particular in the United States of war movies a 728 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 4: lot of times that are to a great extent glorified, 729 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 4: like the the concept of fighting a good fight, fighting 730 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,280 Speaker 4: for good, fighting. 731 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:47,280 Speaker 1: The great right side. 732 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 4: But but really just anytime there's war and profit generated, 733 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 4: it should feel for everyone on every side like an 734 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 4: icky thing. I think, well, here's the crazy thing, man. 735 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 6: I mean, I distinctly remember, you know, after nine to 736 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 6: eleven the idea of we're going to war being a 737 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 6: big deal in my mind and thinking it was going 738 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 6: to have some effect on my day to day life. 739 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 6: But we've been at war for so long as a 740 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 6: country that it's sort of you're sort of numb to it, 741 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,839 Speaker 6: and you don't really we were so isolated from it 742 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 6: in our daily lives that it's very difficult unless you 743 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 6: have military in your family, to have a real ramification 744 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 6: of these conflicts, which, if I would argue, I think 745 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 6: and many most would agree, are largely for profit. The 746 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,720 Speaker 6: notion of staying in a perpetual state of war feeds 747 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 6: that machine. 748 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 4: You know, well, let's get let's just get to Afghanistan. 749 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,280 Speaker 4: And what we learned in previous episodes about the poppy fields. 750 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,759 Speaker 1: Oh yes, poppy production which was waning under the Taliban, 751 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: exploded under under US supervision during coalition control right right, 752 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,879 Speaker 1: the idea of being it's the best cash crop. US 753 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: soldiers were tasked with protecting the open the poppy fields. Rather, 754 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: let's were the. 755 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 4: Oil fields in a rock? Sorry, I don't know. I 756 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,720 Speaker 4: mean we keep seeing it, at least from the United 757 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 4: States side. 758 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: Well sure, from every side. You know, it goes into 759 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,320 Speaker 1: a Smedley Butler's idea of war as a racket, economic 760 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,280 Speaker 1: confessions of an economic hit man, the concept that war 761 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: may be an economic necessity for certain types of governments 762 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:33,240 Speaker 1: or societies, and this money goes missing. All of the time. 763 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: We've barely touched on things like we didn't talk about 764 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 1: the Amber room, right, that's missing too. We didn't talk 765 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: about Himmler's ninety three million dollars worth of silver. We 766 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: didn't talk about Lake Vulsen. Apparently Germans hit one hundred 767 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 1: million in gold there too. There are laundry lists of 768 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: hidden or stolen gold and valuables, and that kind of 769 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 1: practice didn't stop when the Not Party collapsed. There was 770 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,359 Speaker 1: a palette with what a billion dollars that just went 771 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 1: missing in the Middle East. 772 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, don't talk about that now, I'm just kidding. We did. 773 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 4: Didn't we do a whole episode on that, or at 774 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 4: least I know we talked about it. 775 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: We did. We did talk about it. And we've always 776 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: known that war and profit are inextricably intertwined. We know 777 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: things continue to disappear. This this is just, by the way, 778 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: when we say money continues to disappear, we're just talking 779 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,359 Speaker 1: about the money that people lost. We're not talking about 780 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,800 Speaker 1: the money that never really existed due to black budgets 781 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:36,880 Speaker 1: and off the book spending. 782 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 4: Oh my god. And you know, not to mention, by 783 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 4: the way, all the arms deals that occur across the 784 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 4: globe from one country to another. 785 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:44,720 Speaker 1: Good point. 786 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 4: I mean that. I mean, you want to talk about 787 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,320 Speaker 4: blood money, it's right there. 788 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:49,440 Speaker 1: That's true. 789 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 4: That's future blood money, blood money that's going to be 790 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 4: cashed out. 791 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,800 Speaker 1: And some people will argue this is just an unpleasant, 792 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: necessary piece of the globe both financial system and some 793 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,239 Speaker 1: people would respond to that argument by saying, well, why 794 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 1: don't we make another system for some people? Problem is 795 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 1: that there's not a problem. Business is very very good. 796 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I just just this is an anecdote, 797 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,279 Speaker 4: but I just watched Fight Club for the first time 798 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 4: in a long time and had a discussion about it 799 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 4: and that feeling of why not just make a new system? 800 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 4: Right in that movie there's depictions of people wanting to 801 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 4: make a new system, but that concept of tearing one 802 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 4: down to create a new one is pretty terrifying. At 803 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 4: least now that I'm in my mid thirties. 804 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 6: I've already been, like, you know, paying into the current 805 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 6: system for so many years. 806 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 2: Now I can't start over. 807 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. It's weird the way that kind 808 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 4: of feeling happens, but I would be right there with 809 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 4: you that that feeling is pretty pervasive of something needs 810 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,240 Speaker 4: to change because this system is not functioning properly. 811 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 1: Humph, something must be done. But no one agrees what 812 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. What do you think? 813 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 1: How much truth is there to these different claims of 814 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 1: hidden Nazi treasure? Is there more of this treasure somewhere 815 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: out there in this wide world of ours? The answer 816 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: I think is yes, And I also I'm going to 817 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: go a step further pure speculation. I think not only 818 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 1: is some of that stolen stuff still out there, it 819 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: is accounted for by people who have just held on 820 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: to it or profited from it, and they're not going 821 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,839 Speaker 1: to come forward because why would you. You're a war 822 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: criminal at that point. 823 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 4: Well, in decades have passed by this point that maybe 824 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,840 Speaker 4: it's not even known, like by current heads of banks 825 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,760 Speaker 4: or you know, board members or something. If this stuff 826 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 4: is secreted away somewhere in a vault, maybe it's not 827 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 4: known what it is because maybe it was smelted down, 828 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,799 Speaker 4: just like the United States allegedly did. I don't know. 829 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 4: I think you're right, Ben, I think you're right. 830 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 1: Last thing, just for an example, I've got to mention 831 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 1: this because it was so bizarre to learn about this. 832 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: George Patten we mentioned earlier, had a plan to use 833 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,760 Speaker 1: Nazi gold to fund the US military after the after 834 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: the war. Patten, after discovering that salt mine treasure, Yes, 835 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 1: he sat down with some army generals later that night 836 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,640 Speaker 1: and they said, okay, how do we handle this? And 837 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,160 Speaker 1: Patten's first suggestion off the top, he was coming in 838 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,320 Speaker 1: hot man. He said, let's distribute the gold to the boys. 839 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,680 Speaker 1: He won a quote, some gold for every son of 840 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: in the third Army. And they said, no, you can't 841 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,280 Speaker 1: do that. We have to follow some sort of law. 842 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: And then he said, okay, well, if we can't just 843 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: give it away to the boys, let's keep it a 844 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,800 Speaker 1: secret from the Congress and from the generals who aren't cool. Wow, 845 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: it didn't work. 846 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,080 Speaker 4: I love that he used the phrase generals who aren't cool. 847 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that part. Might be pair phrase. But we 848 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 1: know that there's still we know there's still stuff that's 849 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 1: being discovered. There was one point eight billion dollars worth 850 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,600 Speaker 1: of art discovered in a Munich apartment in twenty twelve. 851 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: People are still finding things that was not very long ago. 852 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:24,439 Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't 853 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts. That's right, let us know 854 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:26,879 Speaker 1: what you think. You can reach. 855 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,279 Speaker 6: You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on 856 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,719 Speaker 6: Facebook x and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok work Conspiracy 857 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 6: Stuff Show. 858 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 4: If you want to call us dial one eight three 859 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,800 Speaker 4: three STDWYTK that's our voicemail system. 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