Speaker 1: Now really.
Speaker 2: Really now really hello and welcome to really know really
Speaker 2: with Jason, Alexander and Peter Tilden, who kindly ask you
Speaker 2: to subscribe to our show and then tell everyone you
Speaker 2: know and don't know to do the same thing by
Speaker 2: your multitude of social media apps. And speaking of social
Speaker 2: media apps, have you noticed how they've come to pretty
Speaker 2: much dominate our daily lives? And suddenly government is seeking
Speaker 2: to intervene. Currently, the Supreme Court has upheld the right
Speaker 2: to ban the popular TikTok app in the United States.
Speaker 2: Australia has issued a ban on social media for miners,
Speaker 2: and there is a growing trend of trying to limit
Speaker 2: social media in order to make people more social. Really, no, really,
Speaker 2: and who even knows if bans are the best way
Speaker 2: of dealing with the situation. Well, one person who knows
Speaker 2: quite a bit is doctor Jacqueline Nisi. She's an assistant
Speaker 2: professor of psychiatry and human behavior at Brown University, where
Speaker 2: she's specific he studies how technology affects kids and how
Speaker 2: parents can help. And now here are two guys who
Speaker 2: are still waiting for their verification check marks, elon Jason
Speaker 2: and Peter.
Speaker 3: Really, So today we're gonna we're gonna be talking about
Speaker 3: social media.
Speaker 1: Would you describe yourself as someone who is addicted? It's
Speaker 1: a big word, but it is highly participatory in your
Speaker 1: social media.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and how many social media accounts do you
Speaker 3: personally have? I don't mean our show, I don't mean any,
Speaker 3: just the ones that you don't.
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't you have funny because I don't
Speaker 4: enter into I have them all, but I do them
Speaker 4: for research. I want to see what's spending, what people
Speaker 4: are talking about. But I don't post, and you don't
Speaker 4: really look at comments. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't you know I have I have three. I
Speaker 3: had four. I got off of a big one. And
Speaker 3: the thing that makes me crazy is at some point
Speaker 3: every week, my my iPad will say to me how
Speaker 3: much screen time I've had this week and whether it's
Speaker 3: upper down from the week before. And I, first of all,
Speaker 3: it makes me crazy that it's watching me what's hello?
Speaker 3: And I guess it's not making a judgment about it,
Speaker 3: but it feels very judgmental.
Speaker 1: It's telling me I'm up or down from my use
Speaker 1: to the week before and what I left.
Speaker 4: What I love about that because I get that on
Speaker 4: all my social media and on my phone, how much
Speaker 4: use and how much Yeah, with the subtext of watch out,
Speaker 4: just make sure you're not doing too much. And at
Speaker 4: the same time, it's going, we got to we we
Speaker 4: got one, we got we got to get this up,
Speaker 4: we got to get this up again.
Speaker 3: So if so, but here's why I bring it up
Speaker 3: because I don't think I'm overly engaged with social media.
Speaker 1: I don't really think.
Speaker 3: And yet you know, it gets into the just shy
Speaker 3: of nine hours a week is basically what it's telling me.
Speaker 1: I go, I'm on that thing nine hours a week.
Speaker 3: So if I who am not plugged in as a
Speaker 3: sixty five year old man, I'm not plugged into this stuff.
Speaker 3: I don't really care about this stuff. I get my
Speaker 3: news from traditional media. And imagine being a teenager whose
Speaker 3: entire world.
Speaker 4: Well that's the other that's the point. And just how
Speaker 4: damaging or not damaging the social media because it's their community,
Speaker 4: it's their engagement, it's their entertainment, it's their music, it's theirs,
Speaker 4: their news sources, it's there everything, and why wouldn't it
Speaker 4: be right? And then the big question for me with
Speaker 4: this specialist is isn't there a spectrum like, aren't there
Speaker 4: kids who are just destroyed by social media? Devastated by
Speaker 4: we know it all the time, we hear about it
Speaker 4: all the time, and it's even suicidal. Then there's some
Speaker 4: maybe that are neutral about it, and then maybe there's
Speaker 4: some who are honor students who are using it to
Speaker 4: do content to learn stuff. So all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: the band across the board would seem to be counterintuitive
Speaker 4: and a bludgeon for something that has to be there
Speaker 4: has to be and this is the hard part. What
Speaker 4: are the solutions to make it better for those kids
Speaker 4: who are devastated by it? So that I'm fascinated by this.
Speaker 4: I'm fascinated that the Australia went screw it and that they.
Speaker 3: Think I said to you, when you, you know, talk
Speaker 3: to me about this topic, I said, Oh, we're back
Speaker 3: to the Chemtrail episode where you go, Okay, they're banned
Speaker 3: in Arizona.
Speaker 1: Okay, so.
Speaker 3: The sky I mean, so how do you how do
Speaker 3: you enforce this? How do you you know what what
Speaker 3: is the mechanism that allows you to make sure that
Speaker 3: you can enforce a.
Speaker 4: Band, especially by the way, when the people who are
Speaker 4: pushing back on the band are the wealthiest, most powerful.
Speaker 4: Now people on the planet did own these tech companies
Speaker 4: that own the The thing.
Speaker 1: Is they're going to do.
Speaker 3: I can't remember who this comedian is, and I just
Speaker 3: saw the bit the other day, but he does a
Speaker 3: bit about I guess the porn sites now have a
Speaker 3: thing if you if you bring up the if you
Speaker 3: type in whatever it is, the first thing that comes
Speaker 3: up is the thing that says, I am eighteen years
Speaker 3: of old or older.
Speaker 1: Or I am not eighteen years but any any schmo,
Speaker 1: I'm eighteen. What do you want? How is that? He's
Speaker 1: a big preventative way that no one goes past.
Speaker 4: We took a reasonable effort.
Speaker 1: Does that sven?
Speaker 3: Thirty four million dollars? We put up a thing if
Speaker 3: you kid, I'm the kid hit I'm eighteen.
Speaker 1: Who are we to know?
Speaker 4: You're a liar?
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, you're a liar, and I should pay thirty
Speaker 1: four million dollars.
Speaker 4: But the good thing is nobody's watching forn so it
Speaker 4: doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. And with that, with that, we
Speaker 1: have a fascinating.
Speaker 3: Guest today, Professor Jacqueline is it nessy is that I
Speaker 3: would assume she's assistant professor at Brown University who studies
Speaker 3: technology use and how it affects kids and how parents
Speaker 3: can help. She writes for a popular weekly newsletter called
Speaker 3: Techno Sapiens and co created Tech Without Stress, which is
Speaker 3: a course to help parents raising kids in the digital age.
Speaker 3: She's published over fifty peer reviewed publications related to youth
Speaker 3: and technology. Youth and her Her writing has been featured
Speaker 3: in The New York Times, Journal, Washington Post.
Speaker 1: She's a person. She's a real person testifying for a.
Speaker 4: Congressert on In addition, she setsfy in front of Congress.
Speaker 4: But she also just got funded to do research specifically
Speaker 4: on kids and using this tech and howat how it
Speaker 4: does affect them and is this causing the depression or
Speaker 4: in the youth will find this out.
Speaker 3: Let's get schooled and let's welcome professor Jacqueline.
Speaker 1: Is it nessy? Am? I saying it right?
Speaker 5: It's actually ns messy?
Speaker 1: Welcome Professor Jacqueline. Nissy.
Speaker 4: You need to add another easy you.
Speaker 5: Need it's it's it's confusing.
Speaker 6: I would say about half of my my friends also
Speaker 6: don't know how to pronounce it.
Speaker 4: So it's okay because your name is obviously sponding correct.
Speaker 1: Exactly well, welcome, welcome to our little program. So we
Speaker 1: are we are. Wegan we began by chatting about.
Speaker 3: And we'll get into many things, I'm sure, but I
Speaker 3: want to start with as I'm sure you're aware, the
Speaker 3: country of Australia has stated that they are going to
Speaker 3: ban social media for people under the age of sixteen
Speaker 3: starting next year, and we wanted to get your thoughts
Speaker 3: about whether that's a net positive or a net neutral
Speaker 3: or negative. What's your take on whether this is even
Speaker 3: a good thing to be pursuing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean so this is so just backing
Speaker 6: up a little bit, I'll say that the research on
Speaker 6: the link between social media and mental health, which is
Speaker 6: the thing that's kind of driving a lot of these
Speaker 6: bans and.
Speaker 5: Movements to change things, the research is a little bit mixed.
Speaker 6: Actually, it's not so as clear cut as we would think.
Speaker 6: That said, there's generally pretty widespread agreement that these platforms
Speaker 6: do have problems, right, like they're not designed optimally for
Speaker 6: young people and young people's being, and so I think
Speaker 6: there's two generally schools.
Speaker 5: Of thought about how to address that.
Speaker 6: One is, let's make changes to the platforms themselves to
Speaker 6: make them safer.
Speaker 5: Healthier, better for kids.
Speaker 6: The other school thought is let's keep them off altogether, right,
Speaker 6: and so obviously that is what Australia has started taking
Speaker 6: steps to do.
Speaker 5: You could argue that you have.
Speaker 6: To set the age somewhere, right, like you have to
Speaker 6: set the age at which kids can accessit at some point.
Speaker 6: And in the US it's effectively based on the laws
Speaker 6: that we have, it's effectively thirteen.
Speaker 5: But there are a lot of issues that this brings up.
Speaker 6: One is how do you even define social media right,
Speaker 6: like what platforms would even be considered social media for
Speaker 6: this type of ban. The second is how do you
Speaker 6: enforce it? Like you said, so there's some talk of
Speaker 6: age verification, like, how are you going to know whether
Speaker 6: kids are actually sixteen?
Speaker 4: Together?
Speaker 3: I was going to say, because I was joking about
Speaker 3: you know, the porn sites have a thing that says
Speaker 3: I am eighteen or holder or I am not.
Speaker 6: It's yeah, yeah, I think it's just a it's a
Speaker 6: really tricky issue and I don't think that we have
Speaker 6: a good solution in terms of how to do age verification,
Speaker 6: not that it couldn't be developed, but how to do
Speaker 6: it in a way that protects privacy and that people
Speaker 6: feel comfortable with. I think the biggest issue though, actually
Speaker 6: is that it's by putting a ban in place, it
Speaker 6: kind of replaces the need to actually make changes to
Speaker 6: these platforms, right, So, you know, so we know that
Speaker 6: there are changes that could be made, maybe should be
Speaker 6: made to make.
Speaker 5: Them safer and better for kids.
Speaker 6: And if there's a band in place, then the platforms
Speaker 6: can just say, oh, well, the kids shouldn't be on
Speaker 6: there anyway. So you know, so what do we have
Speaker 6: to work what do we have to worry about? You know,
Speaker 6: we don't need to be making these these changes.
Speaker 5: And that they actually become less safe for kids as
Speaker 5: a result.
Speaker 4: Also, when you're studying teens, not every team is destroyed
Speaker 4: by TikTok. Some flourish because of that, and you would
Speaker 4: push some kids in more isolation. So there's potential negatives
Speaker 4: for a whole group of kids that we don't talk
Speaker 4: about the benefit from it. Some are neutral. We always
Speaker 4: talk about the kids who are damaged by that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's a really good question. I think it's
Speaker 6: kind of the question that's at the heart of a
Speaker 6: lot of these debates, you know, because the narrative around
Speaker 6: social media and kids' mental health is obviously really negative.
Speaker 6: Like what we hear about it is that this is
Speaker 6: bad and that the science is settled on this, Like,
Speaker 6: we know it's bad, but I think the research we
Speaker 6: do have actually doesn't really support that kind of simple story. Like,
Speaker 6: as you said, social media has a lot of different things,
Speaker 6: first of all, so there's a lot of different ways
Speaker 6: that it can be used. Some may be beneficial, some
Speaker 6: certainly harmful. And then of course kids are very different
Speaker 6: from each other, right, so you know, kids are using
Speaker 6: these platforms in very different ways.
Speaker 5: Some kids, as you mentioned, maybe.
Speaker 6: Those who might be more marginalized somehow in their you know,
Speaker 6: offline lives, may actually be getting some benefit from the platforms,
Speaker 6: finding community on there. So kids are going to be
Speaker 6: affected in different ways by the platforms, and that makes
Speaker 6: it hard, I think, to determine, you know, what is
Speaker 6: the best way to regulate these platforms, to make them safer,
Speaker 6: to make them better, knowing that the impacts really different
Speaker 6: for different kids, and that there may be good that's
Speaker 6: coming out of the platforms for some kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it seems to me, you know, we have
Speaker 3: some of the same issues in my own business about
Speaker 3: we have just gotten around to trying to figure out
Speaker 3: practices within my industry to make a safer environment for
Speaker 3: the children that work in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's when.
Speaker 3: We can see them in their hands on and it's
Speaker 3: very limited exposure, and we can sort of navigate what
Speaker 3: they do and don't do during their work day. I mean,
Speaker 3: are you aware of any of the things they're thinking
Speaker 3: about that might be considered protective for young people? Are
Speaker 3: you aware of any of the.
Speaker 1: Things they're thinking about that might be considered protective for
Speaker 1: young people.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a really good question. It's a really good parallel.
Speaker 6: I think there are many different proposals out there, some
Speaker 6: at the federal levels, many at the state level. Some
Speaker 6: of the things that are in consideration are things like
Speaker 6: default privacy settings, so making sure that kids are not
Speaker 6: being automated into public profiles where anyone can contact them
Speaker 6: or see their information, right, putting more protections in place
Speaker 6: for parental controls, so letting parents and kids themselves customize
Speaker 6: their experience a little bit more on the platforms. And
Speaker 6: then you know, generally kind of creating a duty for
Speaker 6: these platforms to protect kids from arms, so things like
Speaker 6: really problematic content, like content that promotes self harm, or
Speaker 6: eating disorders or things that we just obviously would not
Speaker 6: want kids seeing. Right, there's some argument that there should
Speaker 6: be changes made to the platforms for everybody, just that
Speaker 6: they should generally be you know, more safe and places
Speaker 6: where there's more transparency about how your data is being
Speaker 6: collected and used, where you have more options to customize,
Speaker 6: you know, the algorithms that are feeding you content and
Speaker 6: those kinds of things. And maybe there should be changes
Speaker 6: made for everyone.
Speaker 3: But is that is there any danger that you are
Speaker 3: effectively putting blinders on because they're only exposing themselves to
Speaker 3: things that are giving them what they want as opposed
Speaker 3: to offering an opposing opinion or a different idea, a
Speaker 3: different perspective.
Speaker 1: Would there not be a downside to that kind of Yeah?
Speaker 6: So, yeah, certainly, I think there could be a downside.
Speaker 6: That's way I think that any with any change or
Speaker 6: solution that we talk about here, I do think that
Speaker 6: some amount of media literacy training is necessary, and that
Speaker 6: just meaning we need to be teaching kids about healthy
Speaker 6: and safe ways to use these platforms.
Speaker 5: Right now, I think there is not a lot of
Speaker 5: that happening.
Speaker 6: Mostly, I think what kids are hearing is social media
Speaker 6: is bad for you, it's bad for your mental health,
Speaker 6: don't use it, which is not really realistic.
Speaker 5: And that's it.
Speaker 6: And they're not getting a lot of education and training
Speaker 6: around how can they actually use this in ways that
Speaker 6: work for them, that make them feel good or make
Speaker 6: them feel better, where it's not interfering with other aspects
Speaker 6: of their lives.
Speaker 5: So I think it's something that we need to be
Speaker 5: teaching kids.
Speaker 3: And part of as I was reading out your resume,
Speaker 3: part of what you do is you are trying to
Speaker 3: help parents learn how to help their kids navigate this
Speaker 3: What are some of the tips that, I mean to
Speaker 3: the if you can sort of winnie them down, What
Speaker 3: are some of the things you're trying to offer parents
Speaker 3: as guidelines for navigating this stuff.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really challenging
Speaker 6: landscape for parents. As you can imagine, it's changing so fast.
Speaker 6: It's very different than what many parents dealt with growing up.
Speaker 5: When they were younger.
Speaker 6: And Yeah, so in the past few years, since becoming
Speaker 6: a parent myself, I have young kids, I think I've
Speaker 6: become a lot more interested, become a lot more interested
Speaker 6: in just how can we help parents figure out how
Speaker 6: to how to navigate this, how to deal with these
Speaker 6: new technologies, and so yeah, I think there's a couple
Speaker 6: a couple general tips that I think are good to
Speaker 6: start with for parents. So one is which parents don't
Speaker 6: love to hear, but is important is modeling, which is
Speaker 6: thinking about your own use of social media actually in
Speaker 6: your own use of technology, and we know that plays
Speaker 6: a pretty major role in how our kids use technology,
Speaker 6: and so starting there reflecting on your own use.
Speaker 5: And then the other two.
Speaker 6: Tips I would say to start with are communication, So
Speaker 6: open communication, conversations about this, asking questions is really important,
Speaker 6: getting curious about how kids are using these technologies, why, when,
Speaker 6: why it's important to them, what they like about it.
Speaker 5: I think we often come.
Speaker 6: In with our own agenda, which of course makes sense
Speaker 6: we're concerned about this as parents, but getting kids perspective
Speaker 6: to is important. And then the last piece is setting
Speaker 6: boundaries around it. You know, So the tech companies, of course,
Speaker 6: I think have a role to play in terms of
Speaker 6: making the platforms safer for kids, but I also think
Speaker 6: that parents can play a major role in terms of
Speaker 6: setting limits, figuring out what the right boundaries are around this,
Speaker 6: and that might mean waiting a certain amount of time
Speaker 6: to get them a smartphone, for example, or waiting until
Speaker 6: a certain age to give them access to social media.
Speaker 6: I think it can help parents to think about what
Speaker 6: is kind of the minimum level of time technology that
Speaker 6: is necessary.
Speaker 5: For your child to meet the needs they have.
Speaker 6: So if they want to be communicating with friends, staying
Speaker 6: in touch with their peers, maybe they can do that
Speaker 6: with a you know, a flip phone, or maybe they
Speaker 6: can do that with like a smart watch that's made
Speaker 6: specifically for kids.
Speaker 4: Or by the way, that's what I'm getting my kid
Speaker 4: to be popular in school. Your research, because you've got
Speaker 4: a grant to do research, so we can actually have
Speaker 4: a jumping off point and look at it and go,
Speaker 4: here's what I found. This is not an opinion, here's
Speaker 4: what I found. When your research is done, who do
Speaker 4: you present to that may actually look at it and go, oh, wow,
Speaker 4: thank you for this. We have something tangible now where
Speaker 4: we can do something actionable.
Speaker 6: Maybe yeah, I mean, I think there's a few different
Speaker 6: ways that you know, after you a study fea of findings,
Speaker 6: that you can share the findings.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: One of the things that I'm trying to do now,
Speaker 6: as you mentioned, is trying to get the information directly
Speaker 6: to people who can use it quickly, like parents, parents,
Speaker 6: educators in schools. But obviously there's some amount that can
Speaker 6: get to policymakers, like we've talked about some of this
Speaker 6: is happening over social media.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, congratulations on the grant, you know, And should
Speaker 4: we have panels of like twelve year olds who are
Speaker 4: actually trying to get the solutions rather than adults who
Speaker 4: didn't grow up with social media and don't understand it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 6: Actually, I think that we do definitely forget sometimes to
Speaker 6: actually involve kids in these conversations, the ones who actually
Speaker 6: know the most about how they're using these platforms and
Speaker 6: what's working.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: I did this survey last year with common Sense Media
Speaker 6: where we went out and we surveyed about fifteen hundred
Speaker 6: girls ages eleven to fifteen across the US, and one
Speaker 6: of the things we asked them was what changes would
Speaker 6: you make to social media to make it better? And
Speaker 6: the things they came up with with were really kind
Speaker 6: of common.
Speaker 5: Sense, right.
Speaker 6: It was like, you know, stop letting adult contact me
Speaker 6: who I don't want to be contacting me, or like
Speaker 6: give me more age appropriate content to look at instead
Speaker 6: of things that I don't want to be looking at,
Speaker 6: you know, like they came up with things that are
Speaker 6: really make a lot of sense, and I think most
Speaker 6: people would agree with. But I how to actually then
Speaker 6: put that into practice at the policy level is is hard.
Speaker 1: Professor.
Speaker 3: If I may may, this may not be something that
Speaker 3: you can absolutely speak to, but on the on the
Speaker 3: hopes that you can, it would be helpful, I think
Speaker 3: to a lot of parents. I remember my boys are
Speaker 3: fully grown, but I remember when social media sort of
Speaker 3: started to come into it's it's real heyday as they
Speaker 3: were becoming teenagers, and I had a very realistic talk
Speaker 3: with my boys about pornography online, where where I said
Speaker 3: to them, look, guys, when when when two adult people
Speaker 3: agree on something and they there's nothing that's bad. Everything's
Speaker 3: fine as long as those are circumstances. But until you
Speaker 3: understand sexuality for yourself, you might bump into some things
Speaker 3: online that are really disturbing or really shocking or really
Speaker 3: kind of blow your mind that they're not appropriate for
Speaker 3: you at this point. So I'm going to beg you,
Speaker 3: since I cannot follow you or every move, try to avoid.
Speaker 1: Going of these things.
Speaker 3: I understand, I mean, I had playboys as a teenage boy.
Speaker 3: I understand you want to see what a naked girl
Speaker 3: looks like, but there are some really very frightening things
Speaker 3: out there. Same thing with this online bullying thing, which
Speaker 3: which really hadn't become, to my knowledge, much of a
Speaker 3: thing when my boys were growing up, but seems to
Speaker 3: be so prevalent now in those two specific areas of pornography.
Speaker 3: When parents sit down to discuss how a child is
Speaker 3: going to use their social media when the parent cannot
Speaker 3: see what's going on. Is there a way to talk
Speaker 3: to kids about pornography specifically, or ways that they might
Speaker 3: open themselves to online bullying and what those kids can
Speaker 3: do to help themselves.
Speaker 1: Are there? Do you have any insight on what a parent.
Speaker 3: Can say that have a real conversation with their child
Speaker 3: about stuff.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a great question, and I think I think
Speaker 6: you're you were one step ahead of the game by just.
Speaker 5: Having the conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: That's the first thing is that a lot of parents
Speaker 6: are just nervous to have these conversations. They don't know
Speaker 6: what to say, they don't want to get it wrong,
Speaker 6: so they don't say anything. And we really do need
Speaker 6: to be talking to kids about some of these challenges
Speaker 6: and some of the dangers that are online.
Speaker 5: So, if there's one message.
Speaker 6: That I think is important to convey, I would say
Speaker 6: it's one of non judgment, right, So trying to convey
Speaker 6: the message that if you have questions, if you're concerned
Speaker 6: about something, if you see something you feel like you
Speaker 6: shouldn't have, I want you to feel like you can
Speaker 6: come talk to me without me, without me taking your
Speaker 6: phone away, or without me jumping into something punitive. And
Speaker 6: I think it's really common for parents, very understandably, where
Speaker 6: their kid says they saw something or they bring something
Speaker 6: up to kind of test the waters. Parents freak out
Speaker 6: and get a little nervous about that, and then they
Speaker 6: put in more restrictions, right, And what that shows the
Speaker 6: kids is that they can't do that in the future, Right,
Speaker 6: They can't. They can't come to you and talk about
Speaker 6: it because it's going to have negative consequences. And so
Speaker 6: I think as much as possible, even though it's hard,
Speaker 6: really trying to approach us conversations with you know, thanks
Speaker 6: for coming to me.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you.
Speaker 6: I'm glad you brought this to me. Let's have a
Speaker 6: conversation about what happened? What can you do next time?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: What did you not understand? Can we can?
Speaker 6: Can we look it up together and figure it out
Speaker 6: rather than you know, having a more punitive right right.
Speaker 4: Wow, that makes sense because we go we go right
Speaker 4: to we do go to punitive when you're panicing, right well, yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean I think the other the other thing for
Speaker 6: parents is know you don't have to, you know, quote
Speaker 6: get it right in every conversation, right like, it's never
Speaker 6: going to it's not going to be perfect.
Speaker 3: Where were you when I was raising children? I don't
Speaker 3: have to always get it right. That would have been
Speaker 3: a very good tip.
Speaker 4: I started the episode by saying, you know, these tech
Speaker 4: companies can target kids with ads. I'm sure they know.
Speaker 4: How is that possible that you can target a ten
Speaker 4: year old with an ad of twenty things are going
Speaker 4: to buy and you know everything about them? However, you
Speaker 4: can't block content from that same kid that you know
Speaker 4: who they are and what their age is. That to
Speaker 4: me tells me if they wanted to, if there was
Speaker 4: an incentive that they could.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's also what the algorithm is solving for, right like,
Speaker 6: right now we don't know, but it seems like what's
Speaker 6: probably mostly being solved for.
Speaker 5: Is engagement and time.
Speaker 6: So whatever is making a kid or an adults stay
Speaker 6: on their longer, engage more with the content, that's the
Speaker 6: thing that's going to show up first and their algorithm
Speaker 6: and show up most frequently and do do the best
Speaker 6: in terms of how popular it does on the platform.
Speaker 6: But there are other things you could you could solve for,
Speaker 6: right like, there are other things you could be prioritizing.
Speaker 4: Man, it'd be wonderful they could. We had a guest
Speaker 4: on his suggestion, you know, replacing hate and fear, there's
Speaker 4: got to be another more powerful emotion that can release
Speaker 4: dopamine that we can replace.
Speaker 3: I told you I changed my Instagram algorithm in six weeks.
Speaker 1: It was and it was not hard to do well.
Speaker 1: It was very studious.
Speaker 3: So as I was scrolling, if there was anything in
Speaker 3: the first second it came up, if it looked like
Speaker 3: it was trying to give me the kind of news
Speaker 3: and information that would anger me or frighten me, or
Speaker 3: I would flip by.
Speaker 1: So there was no two seconds of eyeballing it.
Speaker 3: Anything that was uplifting, entertaining, humane, charitable, beautiful. I started
Speaker 3: harding it I just started liking it, and within six
Speaker 3: weeks I would say the vast majority of my Instagram
Speaker 3: feed are really kind of lovely things.
Speaker 4: Well, thanks for coming on, doctor Nishi, a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Good luck with your work. We look forward to.
Speaker 4: Why do we need it? Well, there you go, there
Speaker 4: you go?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So what we found out is, yes,
Speaker 3: there is a problem. Yes, companies may or may not
Speaker 3: be working on it. I don't know. No one has
Speaker 3: a definitive answer on how Australia is going to pull
Speaker 3: off this band or if it's there or is it
Speaker 3: just this could be advice to make the companies we're.
Speaker 4: Talking, I thought, no, they they have to be at
Speaker 4: least as smart as we are and know how are
Speaker 4: we going to do this? So maybe if just we're
Speaker 4: not going to sit back and do this, we're gonna
Speaker 4: start finding you guys. So if you don't incentivize and
Speaker 4: give us a reason, we're going to do this dumb band.
Speaker 4: We don't know how to do yet, but we'll figure out.
Speaker 4: Figure we'll figure out. We're going to threaten you exactly
Speaker 4: the year we're going.
Speaker 1: To threaten you.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's interesting. Well, listen, I think this is
Speaker 3: one of the great challenges of our time. Seriously, I
Speaker 3: think the Internet and social media, and we didn't even
Speaker 3: get into misinformation and disinformation.
Speaker 4: Which is so dangerous, or how do you do that?
Speaker 4: How do you do that if it's my opinion and
Speaker 4: it's wrong, and how do you know when it's opinion?
Speaker 3: I have a game for you, but I want to
Speaker 3: be able to include David, So David Google, I'm come
Speaker 3: on and tell us.
Speaker 1: What we learned, what we missed, what we should know,
Speaker 1: what we don't.
Speaker 7: There's actually a lot to get into.
Speaker 4: A couple of mistakes.
Speaker 8: Chemtrails are not banned in arizon't know they're banned in Tennessee.
Speaker 8: That's what I meant to say, right And actually, in
Speaker 8: one clarification when we were speaking about pornography and that
Speaker 8: button that comes up saying I am eighteen, there actually
Speaker 8: are a few states that have requirements in place that
Speaker 8: you have.
Speaker 4: To do some rigor too, like what what's additional?
Speaker 8: The states that where it currently exists are Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, Utah, Indiana,
Speaker 8: and Montana. Now where I live in Florida, there actually
Speaker 8: is new legislation that has.
Speaker 9: Passed going to go into effect in January of twenty
Speaker 9: twenty five, where they perhaps might be requiring you to
Speaker 9: give over your driver's license number.
Speaker 3: Really indeed, so that'll cut way down on users.
Speaker 8: There's a lot of legislation fighting back against this for
Speaker 8: free speech concerns, and there is actually a Supreme Court
Speaker 8: case it's supposed to be heard in twenty twenty five
Speaker 8: on this very subject.
Speaker 1: You know, that's interesting.
Speaker 3: I don't know how I feel about that, because I
Speaker 3: do understand the free speech part, but I also think
Speaker 3: protecting minors is vote.
Speaker 4: You need certainty to drive, you need a certain a
Speaker 4: device to regular liquor, you need a certain age to
Speaker 4: douce access, certain act curtains, but not all inhoment certain
Speaker 4: infrom that wouldn't be bad.
Speaker 3: Could I give them my license and sayts for research
Speaker 3: purposes only?
Speaker 4: Reason all I can see. By the way, just as
Speaker 4: a recall when you said to our guests, as long
Speaker 4: as it's too consensual people, there's nothing bad. Oh yeah,
Speaker 4: even with two consensual people, there's stuff going on, you
Speaker 4: know what you're well, that's oh absolutely even yeah, forget
Speaker 4: too consensual people.
Speaker 1: There are just things I don't want my There are
Speaker 1: things I don't want to the aristocratic?
Speaker 4: Yes, what else, David?
Speaker 1: Anything?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Another thing I wanted to mention is what phone should
Speaker 8: people give to their kids, whether it should be a flip.
Speaker 1: Phone and not a not a smmartphone.
Speaker 8: And obviously your child will be mocked and right, so
Speaker 8: who wants to be able to flip the openness fun?
Speaker 8: But there are phones on the market that use smartphone technology,
Speaker 8: so you're not going your your child is not going
Speaker 8: to be outed as having a weird looking phone. It
Speaker 8: looks like your traditional smartphone, but has built into the
Speaker 8: core system safety features that block many things and then
Speaker 8: give parents automatic alerts on on certain activity on certain
Speaker 8: That's great.
Speaker 4: I bought my kids what the ARP fond for seniors.
Speaker 4: They use a big screen, I fall, extreme.
Speaker 3: Thing numbers I fall, I can't, and a direct line
Speaker 3: to walk in tubs exactly.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: All right, Wow, Well, and here's a little game for
Speaker 3: both of you, because what we're using when we go
Speaker 3: on social media, we're going to websites. And I have
Speaker 3: researched some pretty crazy websites and what they do. So
Speaker 3: we're going to play a game. I'm going to name
Speaker 3: a website what it does? You tell me if it's real.
Speaker 1: Ready.
Speaker 3: There's a website called pointer Pointer which shows photos of
Speaker 3: people pointing and they will always be pointing at where
Speaker 3: your cursor pointer is on the screen.
Speaker 4: That's got to be real.
Speaker 1: David, real that it is absolute real. Point or pointer
Speaker 1: go in there now. Eel Slap allows.
Speaker 3: You to post a picture of someone on the screen
Speaker 3: and digitally slap them with an eel by moving the cursor.
Speaker 1: It is absolutely real. It is absolutely real.
Speaker 3: Bodily Fluidily features close up photo of some sort of
Speaker 3: liquid stain and it invites the user to guess if
Speaker 3: it is a bodily fluid or some other kind.
Speaker 8: David, I would say it not only is it real,
Speaker 8: it's sponsored by doctor pimple Popper.
Speaker 1: Wow, I made that one up. That is a false.
Speaker 4: Really well we should get that, don't you, David. David
Speaker 4: make a note.
Speaker 3: Do nothing for two minutes, offers static photos and video
Speaker 3: and challenges you to do nothing. Don't touch your cursor,
Speaker 3: don't look away, don't click on or off. If you
Speaker 3: move the mouse, it kicks you off automatic. David, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna say it's false.
Speaker 1: It is real. Do Nothing for two minutes is a
Speaker 1: real website?
Speaker 3: G string a solid vertical line appears on your screen.
Speaker 3: If you run your cursor over it, it produces the
Speaker 3: note G on a different.
Speaker 1: Instrument each time.
Speaker 3: That has to be real, David, that's strange, real, I
Speaker 3: made it up.
Speaker 1: That's completely wow. On the other hand is the name
Speaker 1: of the site.
Speaker 3: On the other hand, challenges you to draw simple figures
Speaker 3: with your mouse using the wrong hand.
Speaker 1: Points are scored for accuracy.
Speaker 4: They also, I mean it's got a he's very creative.
Speaker 1: False. I made that one up.
Speaker 4: Really yeah. The most hold on I think I hate
Speaker 4: and I hate to say this. I got because I
Speaker 4: love Seinfeldt, and I love that you got a Tony,
Speaker 4: But I think we just found your nich.
Speaker 3: We made it thing I got. I got four more
Speaker 3: for you to make a fort with these. The most
Speaker 3: seconds is the name of the website. Everyone who logs
Speaker 3: on adds to a timer that registers the total amount
Speaker 3: of time that people have stayed.
Speaker 1: On the site.
Speaker 3: So you log on however much time you watch it.
Speaker 3: It adds to the counter.
Speaker 1: True or false.
Speaker 3: True true, that is absolutely true, and currently the aggregate
Speaker 3: is close to five hundred years worth of seconds that
Speaker 3: people have stood and watched that thing. Here's the website
Speaker 3: has the large Hadron collider destroyed the world. Yet you
Speaker 3: click on and all you see is the word nope.
Speaker 4: Well that has to be real too, because I don't
Speaker 4: think you would have made that one up.
Speaker 1: That is absolutely true, absolutely true. That's a website. Doppelganger.
Speaker 3: Upload a picture of your face and the app immediately
Speaker 3: uploads a celebrity it thinks looks like you, then splits
Speaker 3: the faces in half for a side by side.
Speaker 1: I've used that.
Speaker 3: I think I've used that well if you have, I
Speaker 3: am older royalty because I just made it up.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the last one, Rock Paper Scissors, allows you to
Speaker 3: practice your skill at the game.
Speaker 1: Absolutely real rock paper zero for zero.
Speaker 3: I got to tell you that's fun coming up with
Speaker 3: things that you go so crazy it could be real.
Speaker 4: So let's say, as we say goodbye, if there's a
Speaker 4: developer out there who wants to help them with string
Speaker 4: bodily fluid, I think is the one.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh doppelganger.
Speaker 3: I I am willing to pretty good, pretty good, all right, So,
Speaker 3: ladies and gentlemen, that is our program for those of
Speaker 3: you listening in Australia. Good dye Mite and good luck
Speaker 3: with your band. Thank you, for I'm on to you.
Speaker 3: I get what you're doing. Yeah, right you and your
Speaker 3: bowie knives. Yeah, thank you, Professor Jacqueline neasy and uh watch.
Speaker 4: Thank you, laur thank you. Uh look, can we go
Speaker 4: out with Laurie's music.
Speaker 2: You're wrong.
Speaker 4: Let's have one thing understood.
Speaker 8: Whatever it is, I am against it, and even when
Speaker 8: you've changed it all condensed, I'm.
Speaker 1: Against thank you. Whatever it is. I'm again.
Speaker 6: No really.
Speaker 7: As another episode.
Speaker 2: If really No Really it comes to a close, I
Speaker 2: know you're asking yourself one of the most popular social
Speaker 2: media apps out there today. Well, I'll close the book
Speaker 2: on that topic in a moment, but first let's thank
Speaker 2: our guest doctor Jacqueline. You can follow the doctor on
Speaker 2: x where she is at jacquelinii, or on her website
Speaker 2: jacquelininissi dot com.
Speaker 7: Her substack is Techno Sapiens. Find all pertinent links.
Speaker 2: In our show notes now our little show hangs out
Speaker 2: on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and threads at really No Really podcast,
Speaker 2: And of course, you can share your thoughts and feedback
Speaker 2: with us online at reallynoreally dot com. If you have
Speaker 2: a really some amazing factor story that boggles your mind,
Speaker 2: share it with us, and if we use it, we
Speaker 2: will send you a little gift.
Speaker 7: Nothing life changing, obviously, but it's the thought that counts.
Speaker 2: Check out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe
Speaker 2: button and take that bell so you're updated when we
Speaker 2: release new videos and episodes, which we.
Speaker 7: Do each Tuesday.
Speaker 2: So listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 7: And now the answer to the question.
Speaker 2: One of the most popular social media apps out there today. Well,
Speaker 2: at the end of twenty twenty four, the top thirty
Speaker 2: five were listed, and a lot of familiar and less
Speaker 2: familiar names were among them. Among the less familiar are
Speaker 2: several things I'm about to mispronounce number thirty four, vik
Speaker 2: or Vic contact Ta number thirty, Josh number twenty six,
Speaker 2: Jiaohanngshu which translates to red note number twenty, Billy Billy
Speaker 2: number sixteen, Sina Weebo number twelve, by Do, and number
Speaker 2: eleven dall Yen.
Speaker 7: Among that group, the least popular vk at number thirty.
Speaker 2: Four still has eighty million monthly active users, and the
Speaker 2: most popular deli En at number eleven has seven hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty two million monthly users. Of the more familiar
Speaker 2: We have Rumble at number thirty five, Threads at twenty nine,
Speaker 2: Vimeo at twenty four, LinkedIn at twenty two, X comes
Speaker 2: in at number fifteen, TikTok is number five, Instagram is four,
Speaker 2: What's App is three, YouTube is two, and the number
Speaker 2: over one.
Speaker 7: Is good old Facebook.
Speaker 2: With three point zero six billion active monthly users. That
Speaker 2: means if one a half of one percent of Facebook
Speaker 2: users listen to our show, I could probably afford to
Speaker 2: buy some stock and Rumble or maybe even Jao Hung Shoe,
Speaker 2: and then I could use that money to learn how
Speaker 2: to pronounce Jao hung shoe.
Speaker 7: Well, a guy can dream.
Speaker 2: No, really, really, it really is production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 2: Blase Entertainment