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Speaker 1: Nathan Hackman is a candidate for California Attorney General. He's

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Speaker 1: former assistant US Attorney General, um U S attorney and

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Speaker 1: UH and he's running to restore public safety and justice

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Speaker 1: for all, according to his campaign, Well, I'm in favor

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Speaker 1: of both of those things. Nathan Hawkman, how are you, sir,

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Speaker 1: I'm great. Thank you very much for had me on

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Speaker 1: the show. Joe, Oh, it's our pleasure. So why don't

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Speaker 1: we start with where do you think we've gone wrong

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Speaker 1: in terms of crime and punishment in the last decade

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Speaker 1: or so, whether in California or since we have a

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Speaker 1: national show, just in general. Sure focusing first on California.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and fourteen, just eight short years ago,

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Speaker 1: it was considered one of our safest years in California history.

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Speaker 1: In the last fifty years, all trend lines were down

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Speaker 1: for violent crimes, street prime, homelessness was flash sent at all.

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Speaker 1: Poisoning didn't even exist on the West coast back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen. Fast forward eight years. We weakened

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Speaker 1: our laws, we weakened our prosecutors, and sure enough wenton.

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Speaker 1: Street crimes are exploding almost as is an all time

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Speaker 1: hive and fent and all poisonings will kill more people

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Speaker 1: in California on average seventeen a day than COVID will

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Speaker 1: probably peel this year. So we have gone from again

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Speaker 1: one of the safest times eight years ago to one

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Speaker 1: of the more dangerous times in the last generation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up fentyl because that's such an

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Speaker 1: enormous problem. And uh, you know, every I think most

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Speaker 1: people will understand that young people in particular maybe like

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Speaker 1: to get loose from their senses now and again, get

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Speaker 1: a little buzz on that sort of thing. But kids

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Speaker 1: who think they're getting some harmless pill that's gonna make

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Speaker 1: them feel loopy for an hour are dying in horrifying numbers.

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Speaker 1: What do we do to stop the flow of fentanyl,

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Speaker 1: sometimes in the form of these counterfeit pills, from from

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Speaker 1: hitting our streets and doing the devastating damage they're doing.

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Speaker 1: You know, Joe, I really appreciate the focus on FENTINELO.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the top three things my campaigns focused

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Speaker 1: on because of this reality. Fence at all is fifty

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Speaker 1: times it's a man made opiate, fifty times stronger than heroin,

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Speaker 1: a hundred times stronger than morphine, two milligrams of it

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Speaker 1: will kill you in two minutes. And I call it

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Speaker 1: fence at all poisonings. It's just that there are millions

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Speaker 1: of counterfeit pills being made with Chinese ingredients coming over

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Speaker 1: the southern border through the Mexican drug cartels that have

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Speaker 1: not only infected the whole East coast, but now I'll

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Speaker 1: come to the West coast. And it's not just it's

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Speaker 1: not about getting high. The d A says that four

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Speaker 1: out of ten of these pills have a lethal dose

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Speaker 1: to fent and all. This is basically like people playing

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Speaker 1: Russian Roulette, but with worse odds, and right in Russian

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Speaker 1: Roulette it's, you know, one bullet and a six shooter.

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Speaker 1: This is four added ten. And so what I would

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Speaker 1: want to do, and what the California Attorney General, Rob

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Speaker 1: Bonte has absolutely failed to do, it's put fence at

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Speaker 1: all front and center on enforcement efforts federal and local.

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Speaker 1: Go after the drug dealers at the border, Go after

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Speaker 1: the drug dealers across California, and make sure they understand

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Speaker 1: that they are committing murder. This isn't drug trafficking, this

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Speaker 1: is actually murdering people. And then I would begin at

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Speaker 1: massive education effort in the high schools and middle schools

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Speaker 1: to go out to the students and their parents and

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Speaker 1: again communicate this message it is not about getting high,

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Speaker 1: it is about actually dying. One pill can kill. It's

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Speaker 1: what the d e A says, what the l A

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Speaker 1: Sheriff's office says, and what basically d a's offices across

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Speaker 1: its states say. The one voice you are not hearing

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Speaker 1: in this debate is the California Attorney General. And if

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Speaker 1: I become and when I become the California Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: you'll hear about trans at all place and things all

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Speaker 1: the time. Well, it's extraordinary to me that in the

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Speaker 1: name of I don't know, compassion or ending the war

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Speaker 1: on drugs, you have open air drug markets in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: for instance, When people are dying more often of drug

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Speaker 1: overdose than UH than COVID. In San Francisco, at least

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Speaker 1: and a hundred thousand plus Americans are dying on an

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Speaker 1: annual basis from drug poisonings and overdoses. What would it

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Speaker 1: take to recognize that this is a crisis, and that's

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Speaker 1: what it is. It's actually a crisis, whether it's a

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Speaker 1: public health crisis on the magnitude of COVID. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: could be even a national security crisis if you view

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Speaker 1: it as Chinese ingredients coming over the southern border to

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Speaker 1: kill Americans. I mean, jove, we had a sniper who was,

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Speaker 1: you know, coming originally from China, worked his way through

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Speaker 1: the Mexican drug lords and came into California and was

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Speaker 1: killing seventeen people a day. California would shut down until

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Speaker 1: it found that sniper. Imagine there are now hundreds of

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Speaker 1: snipers across California and you have the magnitude offense at all.

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Speaker 1: It's silent assassins that are literally coming across our border

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Speaker 1: and killing without any distinction to race, political party, gender, anything.

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Speaker 1: They're just killing Californias, and we need to treat it

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Speaker 1: as the public health and national security crisis it is.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really well said Nathan Hawkman, is candidate

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Speaker 1: for California Attorney General. Let's talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: crime more generally. Uh, in your mind, why the explosion

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Speaker 1: and property crime murder rates? Does it have to do

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Speaker 1: with the post George Floyd pullback of policing, the so

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Speaker 1: called Ferguson effect. How do you perceive the whole situation uh,

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Speaker 1: complex as it is, I know it briefly surely. Two fourteen,

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Speaker 1: California passes Proposition forty seven. It's called the Safe Neighborhoods

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Speaker 1: and Schools Act deceivingly, but what it effectively did is

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Speaker 1: it made property crimes in certain drug crimes misdemeanors instead

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Speaker 1: of felonies. And then what happens You had a whole

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Speaker 1: batch of prosecutors come in, most notably in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles that says we're not going to prosecute

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Speaker 1: any more of these misdemeanor property crimes. So what ended

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Speaker 1: up happening is that people can go One person can

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Speaker 1: go into a CDs still just under nine hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars, walk, not run out, and not be prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: And that it's created what I call the spiral of lawlessness.

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Speaker 1: So one person in CBS becomes three people running out

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Speaker 1: of a Walgreens, eight people running out of the Lords, drugs,

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Speaker 1: smash and grab robberies, follow home robberies, train robberies in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and double digit rise in homicides across the

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Speaker 1: entire state. My goal, my goal and becoming California Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: is to arrest and stop this spiral of lawlessness and

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Speaker 1: turn it on its head and become a spiral of lawfullness.

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Speaker 1: I know that both you and we talked to cops

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Speaker 1: a fair amount, and I know plenty of really good cops,

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Speaker 1: be they local guys, sheriff's deputies, um, some FBI people

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Speaker 1: even who are just frustrated because they're there to serve

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Speaker 1: and protect and they can't because the bad guys are

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Speaker 1: out on the street, you know, tomorrow or even the

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Speaker 1: same afternoon. They get arrested, sometimes for really nasty stuff.

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Speaker 1: And again that is the problem. The problem is not

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Speaker 1: the rank and file. The problem is the leadership. When

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Speaker 1: you have the current Attorney General, Rob Bonta, he brings

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Speaker 1: literally zero years of experience to the job. He was

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Speaker 1: not a DA, he was not a prosecutor, he was

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Speaker 1: not a police officer. In contrast, I bring thirty years

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Speaker 1: of criminal justice experience as a federal prosecutor, a U

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Speaker 1: S Assistant Attorney General, and a defense lawyer to the job.

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Speaker 1: And what I have found, he said, you can remain

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Speaker 1: removed the sort of the blockages in the system, which

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Speaker 1: sadly are the leadership, whether it's the Attorney General, of

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Speaker 1: California or the d as. In these certain cities, you

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Speaker 1: have prosecutors who want to do their job, law enforcement

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Speaker 1: officers who are dying to do their job, and once

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Speaker 1: we can remove the blockages, they will do their job,

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Speaker 1: which is why I'm confident I can bring back safety

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Speaker 1: and security to the State of California. Nathan Ackman is

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Speaker 1: running for Attorney General State of California. Nathan, great to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, A good luckless stay in touch. Gregory,

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Speaker 1: you think you haven't one of the weekend