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Speaker 1: Mmm, Hello friends, I am Robert Evans, and this is

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell you everything

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Speaker 1: you don't know about the very worst people in all

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Speaker 1: of history. Now, normally this podcast features me and a

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Speaker 1: guest who's coming into cold talking about a horrific person

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Speaker 1: in history, and generally I pick dictators or people who

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Speaker 1: have abused power in some very large scale way. That's

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Speaker 1: sort of our milieu. We don't really talk about serial

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Speaker 1: killers usually, but today we are talking about a serial

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Speaker 1: killer named Albert Fish, who was a cannibalistic child murder

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Speaker 1: who loved lighting his own ass on fire. Now we're

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Speaker 1: doing this for two reasons. The first is that my

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Speaker 1: guest today, Maggie May Fish, is a He is a

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Speaker 1: relative said person. So let's start there. What is the relation? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I contacted my uncle Terry, who did our who

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Speaker 1: did our family tree, and so I have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of names here, but basically I'm related via his brother

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Speaker 1: became our like direct family line. So Albert Fish's brother

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Speaker 1: Uh ended up moving to Michigan, which is where the

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Speaker 1: rest of that line ended up and where I was born. Exciting, Okay, sorry,

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Speaker 1: exciting Before we get any further, Maggie, you're You're not

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Speaker 1: just the dead guy's relation. You are a wonderful comedian. No,

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Speaker 1: I am just this dead guy's uh gee, I mean

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Speaker 1: I'll never get out of his shadow. Look at what

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Speaker 1: he's done. I will never beat him on that. No,

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Speaker 1: that's you have for one thing, a wonderful YouTube video

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Speaker 1: series where you My favorite one is dissecting sort of

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Speaker 1: the works of Tim Burton. Yeah, I really like your

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Speaker 1: video on timan Um. You're talented comedian, talented writer. You

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Speaker 1: and I worked for the same site for a while,

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Speaker 1: and dauties didn't generally intersect. Yeah, I think we met afterwards. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I met you while you were because

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Speaker 1: they didn't let me into the videos. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: for good reason, for good reason. No one's saying that

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Speaker 1: we're wrong in that um. So Yeah, basically, the weird

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Speaker 1: thing about today is that neither of us is coming

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Speaker 1: in hot or cold. I don't know what you know

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Speaker 1: and you don't know what I know. So we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna We're just gonna find out. Yeah, we're gonna make

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Speaker 1: Reese's Pieces peanut butter cups of knowledge where it's like

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Speaker 1: like a knowledge truck. And then another knowledge truck backs exactly,

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Speaker 1: and the drivers have to crowd fund their medical care

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Speaker 1: because but then they become friends, and then the one

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Speaker 1: falls in love with that guy's sister, and then like

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Speaker 1: they're all over queer. You know, you just pitched a

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Speaker 1: really upbeat movie about our failed medical system. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: well let's talk about a serial killer now. Um, so,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm going to My research for this was

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Speaker 1: mainly I read a book called Deranged by Harold Scheckter.

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Speaker 1: Have you have you given that one to read? I've

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Speaker 1: not given it, although it has been recommended to me

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Speaker 1: several times. If you're it's good if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: a fan of the books about real killers genre, it's

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Speaker 1: a very solid jury into that. I also watched a

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Speaker 1: documentary called Albert Fish about Albert Fish that's terrible. I

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Speaker 1: have watched that. We're going to get into that in

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Speaker 1: a little bit because we've got a couple of video

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Speaker 1: cooks from that, and I just I gotta just trying

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Speaker 1: to light on if you will very excited for this episode. Um,

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Speaker 1: all right, so let's talk about Albert Fish's crimes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the ones that we know that we know here's where

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Speaker 1: I'm confused, and maybe you can China light is. I

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Speaker 1: know like what he did, but I also know the rumors,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know which is like factually happened and

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Speaker 1: which is like, oh man, what if Albert Fish? Also yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I just tried to stick mostly to stuff that

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Speaker 1: we know, because we know there's three children that we

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Speaker 1: know he killed, yes, um, but he claimed to have

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Speaker 1: killed a bunch of other people after he was caught.

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Speaker 1: But he also had as we'll get into a very

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Speaker 1: rich fantasy life, very rich, which seems like and also like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's not the only serial killer to have

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Speaker 1: like made up deaths. Um. So some of this is

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Speaker 1: going to be up to the readers to the side,

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Speaker 1: but hopefully you and I can lock down will forever

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Speaker 1: now be the ironclad history about the Fish? This is it,

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Speaker 1: um right. So on July four, nineteen twenty four, eight

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Speaker 1: year old Frances McDonald was playing on the front stoop

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Speaker 1: of his porch in Staten Island, which was at that

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Speaker 1: time like the middle of nowhere. Yeah, it was still

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Speaker 1: there were like trees and ship trees and ship what's

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Speaker 1: the roly tumble weed walls? Yes, walls. There were walls, walls,

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Speaker 1: and trees. So while his mother was watching him, she

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Speaker 1: saw a strange old man with a gray mustache creeping

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Speaker 1: down the street in exactly the sort of way normal

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Speaker 1: people don't. If it had been two thousand eighteen, she

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Speaker 1: probably would have taken her kids inside and called the cops,

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Speaker 1: or at least taken him inside. But it was four

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Speaker 1: and she was just like, oh, what a weirdo. And

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Speaker 1: then and he was white, so I'm sure it was

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Speaker 1: like that could happen. That's the twenties. Yeah, So Francis

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Speaker 1: left after his mom went inside to play with his

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Speaker 1: brother and some neighbor kids. They were playing some sort

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Speaker 1: of ball game, probably something old timey like stickball or

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Speaker 1: or do you have a ball? Then polio ball? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know sports. But at some point that weird

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Speaker 1: gray man started watching them, and Francis ran over to

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Speaker 1: see what he wanted. Because again, twenties. While his friends

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Speaker 1: and brother were focused on the game, Francis and the

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Speaker 1: man both disappeared. Now, once people realized Francis was missing,

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Speaker 1: search parties were formed. A trio of boy scouts found

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Speaker 1: Francis's body. The newspapers described, yeah, bad time for the

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Speaker 1: what a what a. Yeah, they're having some dark campouts

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Speaker 1: after that, just these kids sitting around the fire, taking

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Speaker 1: drags a cigarettes and just staring. We've seen um. The

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Speaker 1: newspapers described Francis as having been quote atrociously a salted.

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Speaker 1: All of the clothing below his waist had been torn off,

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Speaker 1: he'd been strangled to death with his suspenders, and it

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Speaker 1: looked like he'd been cut up to um. Which so

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Speaker 1: sorry retroactively, I mean, not that I have any control

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Speaker 1: over an ancestor. Yeah, but you know, none of us

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Speaker 1: are responsible for what terrible people in our past. Like

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Speaker 1: when you think about it, everybody's got a serial killer relative.

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Speaker 1: I hope if you go back far and yeah, go

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Speaker 1: find some guys. Find you do after this episode, go

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Speaker 1: find your serial killer and your mass martin. Spoiler alert,

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Speaker 1: my relative who killed people is gonna wind up having

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Speaker 1: a camel in the story. So this is gonna be fun.

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Speaker 1: This is a massive crossover episode. So yeah. On February eleven,

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Speaker 1: uh four year old Billy Gaffney was playing with a

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Speaker 1: three year old friend and his twelve year old brother.

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Speaker 1: Twelve year old walked off because twelve year olds aren't

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Speaker 1: really good at babysitting. Uh, and the two little kids

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Speaker 1: wound up on the roof because again, there were no

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Speaker 1: rules in the nineteen twenties and kids could just go anywhere. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Billy's three year old friend was later found safe on

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Speaker 1: the roof, and when the adult who found him asked

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Speaker 1: where Billy had gone, he said, quote, the Boogeyman took him.

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Speaker 1: You are a descendant of the book. Yeah. The scariest

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Speaker 1: thing is that the photo of Albert Fish on the

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia website looks so much like my current relatives. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just his piercing eyes like they run in our family.

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Speaker 1: So it's terrifying to look at it. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you look like Albert Fish, but y'all

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Speaker 1: do have piercing eyes. I was going to bring that up. Um.

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Speaker 1: So both of these abductions cost sensations when they happened, right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: It was not common for kids to be abducted in

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Speaker 1: the twenties. It was common for kids to die for

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Speaker 1: no reason because twenties and medicine was whiskey. Um. But like,

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Speaker 1: this sort of thing was not common, and so it

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Speaker 1: caused kind of a sensation, and local papers covered the

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Speaker 1: cases breathlessly and even got some national coverage. And if

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Speaker 1: you're feeling bad about the state of journalism right now,

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Speaker 1: which who isn't give me something to look forward to

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Speaker 1: my day, this will make you feel better, because it

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Speaker 1: turns out it's always kind of in garbage. Here's how

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Speaker 1: the New York Daily News wrote about Billy's disappearance. Somewhere

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Speaker 1: in New York or nearby his little Billy Gaffney or

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Speaker 1: his body. An army of detectives fifty strong is hunting

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Speaker 1: that somewhere. Watch for the results of that search, and

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Speaker 1: tomorrow's news All Caps Hoping against hope. Police continue their

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Speaker 1: search for the missing Billy Gaffney. Follow the trail and

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Speaker 1: tomorrow's All Caps News. Will the Seventh Day bring joy

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Speaker 1: or sorrow to the parents of little Billy? Read all

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Speaker 1: the developments of the hunt and Tomorrow's All Caps News.

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Speaker 1: That's some journalism. That was an advertisement for the News,

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Speaker 1: coupled around a tragic story of aspearing little boys getting murdered.

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Speaker 1: Time to sell some papers. Yeah yeah, So, if you've

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Speaker 1: paid attention to the last any length of time really

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Speaker 1: an American culture, you may have picked up on the

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Speaker 1: fact that we are a high strung bunch as a

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Speaker 1: country we are. That was such a nice way to

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Speaker 1: put it. Americans in the nineteen twenties did not take

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Speaker 1: the realization that kidnapping existed any more gracefully than Americans

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Speaker 1: today take scary news reports about MS thirteen. According to

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Speaker 1: Harold scheckters Deranged in the immediate aftermath abilities abduction, over

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Speaker 1: the course of a single week, three separate angry mobs

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Speaker 1: assaulted different suspected boogeyman boy to be that other man

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Speaker 1: and just to be targeted because everyone looked weird back then. Also,

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming there's no way to fix any of it.

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Speaker 1: Well know, and you see anybody walking around in twenties

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Speaker 1: clothing today and you're like, that's a pedophile. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is a that is yeah, but it's just how they

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Speaker 1: dressed dressed. Bowler hat just is so suspicious. You can

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Speaker 1: get arrested for just a bowler hat, Oh my god?

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Speaker 1: And should you should? Yeah? It's not okay. Um, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's a quote from Deranged about the first guy to

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Speaker 1: be cornered by an angry mob because of Albert Fish's cars.

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Speaker 1: A sixty three year old salesman named Giles Steele was

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Speaker 1: which Giles is precious, poor man, Giles. Steele was strolling

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Speaker 1: down East Street when a four year old strolling alive.

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Speaker 1: It's the only way people could walk into Tornet. I

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Speaker 1: guess you were either strolling or you had polio and

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Speaker 1: you could not walk, and and then you were rolling.

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Speaker 1: Because so he was strolling down East Street when a

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Speaker 1: four year old boy stepped into his path. He's told

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Speaker 1: the kid to move aside and reached down and took

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Speaker 1: the kid by the shoulder. And at that point, the

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Speaker 1: kid's mother, Miss Sadie Bernstein, came out and saw him

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Speaker 1: with his hand on the kid's shoulder, and she just

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Speaker 1: starts screaming. And so a crowd of quote a crowd

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Speaker 1: of neighbors immediately descended on Steel and began pummeling him.

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Speaker 1: He just started, it's not even restrain him. For the

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Speaker 1: cops beating the ship out. So Steele was safe by

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Speaker 1: a cop who took him to the station. He was

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Speaker 1: questioned and it became obvious that he had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with anything illegal. Miss Bernstein eventually agreed that she

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Speaker 1: had reacted. Steele was still arranged in a kidnapping charge

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Speaker 1: because the cops just thought he seemed shady poor gild.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know you must talk about a lot

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Speaker 1: about like wrongly convicted people probably on this podcast. That

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Speaker 1: comes up a lot. But I always feel terrible, I

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Speaker 1: mean usually because dictators are just having people executed for

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Speaker 1: crimes they didn't commit. But yeah, this the weird thing

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Speaker 1: is the other two cases of people getting mobbed. Weird

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Speaker 1: dudes with prior convictions for quote, impairing the morals of miners. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And they were caught trying to trick young people into

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Speaker 1: dark alleyways, probably to molest them. Probably. She was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so it was a movement and it was okay. Two

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Speaker 1: thirds of the time the mobs were right, which is

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Speaker 1: a really pretty good for mobs. Yeah, you see boy

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Speaker 1: scouts go out and one out of one they find

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Speaker 1: a dead body mobs or two out of three. One

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Speaker 1: thing I learned in Indiana, Jones, is if you're a

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Speaker 1: boy scout in the twenties, you're finding some dead people

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Speaker 1: and you're probably going to wind up having a fight

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Speaker 1: on top of a train. Oh yeah, those are the

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Speaker 1: two things that I yeah, as the two things that

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Speaker 1: twenties boy scouts for sure do. So. Yeah, the mobs,

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Speaker 1: mobs in the streets, people freaking out. So up until

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Speaker 1: May of these were just too scary, isolated unsolved crimes,

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Speaker 1: one with nobody and both of that a clear villain, right,

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Speaker 1: so people get sort of riled up. Both times these

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Speaker 1: kids get abducted, but then it's sort of fades, kind

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Speaker 1: of like a shooting does, only these are less common

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Speaker 1: at this point. Even then, this all changes on because

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Speaker 1: Albert Fish saw an ad in the situations wanted section

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Speaker 1: of a local newspaper that said, young man eighteen wishes

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Speaker 1: position in country Edward Bud four or six West fifteenth Street. Now,

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Speaker 1: at this point in the classified section was basically the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of like Craigslist today. The main difference is that

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Speaker 1: today everyone is so aware of the danger of creepy

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Speaker 1: people that like, if you're buy a couch on Craiglist,

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Speaker 1: you joke like, all right, I'll be back in an

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Speaker 1: hour unless I get murdered. Right, And then there's that

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Speaker 1: one case where that girl did go on a date

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Speaker 1: and she didn't come back exactly, there's an expectation that

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Speaker 1: danger can happen in this It did not exist then,

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Speaker 1: So an eighteen year old boy would just be like,

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Speaker 1: I want to work in the country and put out

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Speaker 1: an ad and two days later the doorbell rang at

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Speaker 1: Edward Bud's house. His mother opened it and saw a small,

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Speaker 1: elderly man in a suit. Uh. They were very poor,

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Speaker 1: very very poor family. His suit was not particularly nice,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that he was wearing a suitment that

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Speaker 1: he was above them on like the class rung. So

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Speaker 1: they were very impressed by that. He was polite and

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Speaker 1: genteel and like kissed her hand, which she was super

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Speaker 1: impressed by. He does all of like the upper class

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Speaker 1: seeming stuff. He claimed to be a former interior decorator

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Speaker 1: who had made a bunch of money and then started

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Speaker 1: a farm upstate. I like interior decorating. Do you like

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Speaker 1: starting farms? Oh? I could, well, I like farm video games.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where I'm going with this, because this

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Speaker 1: is this is just a lie. He used to abduct

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Speaker 1: a l I know, but I'm thinking if that's what

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Speaker 1: he wanted, what's in my jeans is basically what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to suss out. Well, he didn't work as an

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Speaker 1: interior decorator, might have been well, maybe you can exercise

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Speaker 1: that part of the fish jeens and not everything We're

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Speaker 1: about to talk about today. Um So, part of his

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Speaker 1: lie was that his he'd moved out to start a

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Speaker 1: farm with his wife and kids, and she'd abandoned him

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Speaker 1: because she was terrible and he had to raise his

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Speaker 1: kids alone. But they were doing great and but now

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Speaker 1: his kids were out of the house and he needed

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Speaker 1: some help. So a good story. Willing to hire eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old Edward, but he called himself Frank Howard to yes, so,

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Speaker 1: have you ever found yourself wanting to go by the

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Speaker 1: name Frank Howard? Uh, only if I thought it would

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Speaker 1: be better for my job, like applications. That's a solid job.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a banker. But anyway, Uh yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Fish's actual plan was to murder, eat, and probably moleste

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Speaker 1: Edward h D probably probably not. Well, it's hard he

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Speaker 1: I feel like he kind of had a dead body thing,

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Speaker 1: I think, although he claims he never fucked the dead people,

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Speaker 1: which it's hard to say. Hard to say. Yeah at

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Speaker 1: that point, that's like, you know, yeah, we'll get into

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Speaker 1: the things that he masturbated about. Spoiler there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of masturbation in this episode. Um So, yeah, Edward, the

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Speaker 1: kid that he was going to hire, is super excited.

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Speaker 1: This guy's gonna pay like fifteen bucks a week, which

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Speaker 1: is really good wages back then, and he's like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I've got a friend who also wants work on a farm.

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Speaker 1: Do you have do you need any additional work? And

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Speaker 1: I think this at this point, Albert Fish is just

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Speaker 1: not that great at lying in the moment, and so

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Speaker 1: he says yes, But he doesn't know because number one,

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Speaker 1: this kid's already kind of big, like big enough that

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Speaker 1: Albert's worried, like I might not be able to overpower him,

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Speaker 1: because I like and I don't want to get rid

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Speaker 1: of some of them. I want to eat all of it.

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Speaker 1: You know. He's very resourceful, like retroactively, like placing like

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Speaker 1: good quality. He wants to use every part of the boy. Yes, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean he he's kind of a recycling gun. Um.

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Speaker 1: So Albert Fish says, like yes, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: a panic thing. And he immediately comes up with an

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Speaker 1: excuse to delay and says that like he's not quite

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Speaker 1: ready to leave yet, but he'll be back the next day.

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Speaker 1: And then the next day, instead of coming back, he

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Speaker 1: sends a telegram and says, I'll be there in the

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Speaker 1: next day. When he does finally show back up. He

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Speaker 1: brings pot cheese, which is what you'll find in every

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Speaker 1: write up of this that he brought. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what pot cheese was. It's cottage cheese that people would

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Speaker 1: bring to potlucks and pots. I don't know why, it

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Speaker 1: just it seems like a weird, old timey cheese. So

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Speaker 1: if you read about Albert Fish, you're gonna come across

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Speaker 1: the phrase pot cheese a lot. And I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what it was because I have a new password for

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Speaker 1: all of my advice. So he brings like some cheese

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Speaker 1: and claims that he it came from his farm, and uh,

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Speaker 1: they have like a lunch, and everybody's very impressed with

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Speaker 1: this guy. Uh. He wounds up like playing with their

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Speaker 1: young daughter Grace. And after the meal, he tells the

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Speaker 1: boys he can't take them until later that evening. But

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Speaker 1: he pulls out a big wat of cash, which is

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Speaker 1: like ninety bucks then, which is a lot of money

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Speaker 1: to these people. And he gives a couple of dollars

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Speaker 1: to Edward and his friend and it's like, go see

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Speaker 1: a movie with your buddies or whatever. I'll be back tonight.

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Speaker 1: And then kind of as like an afterthought, I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm heading out to this birthday party my

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Speaker 1: sister is throwing. Maybe your daughter Grace wants to come

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Speaker 1: with me? Is afterthoughts in quotes. I think he kind

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Speaker 1: of brought it up at the end of things, and

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Speaker 1: they say yes because there's this old man, very classic,

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Speaker 1: very genteel. He's helping out the family. So he takes Grace. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And obviously you feel bad for the parents because like

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Speaker 1: the dad, the dad is the one he makes the

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Speaker 1: final call, and he's Grace is a sickly kid. She's

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Speaker 1: ill a lot, and he's like, she never gets to

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Speaker 1: have any fun. Let her go have some fun. Which

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Speaker 1: it doesn't end well for Grace or the buds. They

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Speaker 1: get really pretty fucked over in this um. So he

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Speaker 1: gives them an address of where he's going to be,

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Speaker 1: which they later find out is fake, and then he

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Speaker 1: disappears and Grace never comes back. They never see Frank

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Speaker 1: Howard again. On Tuesday, June five, the New York Times

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Speaker 1: reports on Grace's abduction with the classy headline hunt man

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Speaker 1: and child. He took to party that is classy. It

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Speaker 1: ends on party, So I'm kind of like excited at

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Speaker 1: the end, you know our party a party. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: gotta forget hunt Man. That's actually not a bad If

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Speaker 1: I was going to start a superhero hunt Man and child,

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Speaker 1: Batman and Child, I immediately know what that's about. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so depraved, says the book that I read for this

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Speaker 1: says that the story unspooled and the abloids and kind

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Speaker 1: of the same way that the Gaffney abduction had. So

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Speaker 1: their first off, there's a shipload of false leads. People

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Speaker 1: start just sending lies into the family and we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that a little bit, a lot of sketchy witnesses,

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Speaker 1: and then there's just this big surgeon anxiety over kidnappings

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Speaker 1: for the people of New York. Um, the tabloids make

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Speaker 1: as much of this as they possibly can, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's the same follow Nancy Gray kind of situation. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And every these newspapers are all giving daily updates and

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Speaker 1: like follow this search tomorrow and the daily News and YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 1: And we'll have a list of all of our sources

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Speaker 1: on the website behind the Bastards dot Com. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: get to what happens afterwards and kind of how Albert

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Speaker 1: Fish's crimes sort of started the idea of stranger danger,

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Speaker 1: like we're we're influential in that concept. We were all

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Speaker 1: raised with into fear and how he sort of had

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Speaker 1: an impact on that and the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. But first,

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Speaker 1: you know, it goes great with discussions of the terrible

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Speaker 1: things that serial killers do. Is products and services. You

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00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: love products and services. I use them all the time.

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Speaker 1: Pull out all of your cards and throw them into

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Speaker 1: the air and buy a product. Now, and we're back

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about Albert Fish, the ancestor to my

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Speaker 1: guest today, Maggie Mayfish uh and listeners, just just as

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Speaker 1: a heads up, Maggie is one of the nicer people

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Speaker 1: that I have met in the city of Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: She's not a murderer. As far as I'm gonna wearing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's no trial, there's no wearing a red shirt.

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Speaker 1: I am. I thought blood and then I put on

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Speaker 1: the shirt exactly. Okay. Um, so I think that before everything.

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Speaker 1: I wear on my head like a cat or a

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Speaker 1: little dog. Um okay. So years go by after the

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Speaker 1: Grace Bud kidnapping, which is what we had just talked

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Speaker 1: about in the end, and the case like the other two,

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Speaker 1: gradually starts to fade from memory, but kidnapping did not fade.

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Speaker 1: The disappearances of these three children had helped to spark

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Speaker 1: a new crime epidemic in American history, the kidnapping craze.

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Speaker 1: And I spelled craze with a K in that sentence,

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00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 1: thank you. I knew you'd appreciate that. Yeah, the kidnapping crazy.

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Speaker 1: Uh here's a quote from Harold Scheckters deranged. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty two alone, there were two and eighty two reported

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Speaker 1: kidnappings states, and all but sixty five of the perpetrators

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Speaker 1: had gotten away scott free with their crimes. By the

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Speaker 1: summer of nineteen thirty three, kidnappings were occurring so frequently

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Speaker 1: that news readers required a scorecard to keep track of them.

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Speaker 1: All Oh my god, yeah, well that's where we are.

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Speaker 1: That's where we are. And I feel like Albert fish

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00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: was is so crazy that maybe just no one had

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Speaker 1: really been like, oh I could I could just take

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00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:58,479
Speaker 1: take people? What it was probably the guy who committed

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00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: the first cyber crime, probably the same rush of what

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00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: have I opened? I'd love to see just a movie

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00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: about the man who invented mugging. Just like this poor

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00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: guy on the streets seeing people pull money out of

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Speaker 1: their pockets and like looking at a knife in his

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00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: hand and looking at a rich guy and a knife

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Speaker 1: in her and then just like so heat the rich blood, blood,

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00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: blood blood. He doesn't want to get stabbed, and he

407
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: has money. There's a connection between these things. You can

408
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: figure this out. Um. So, yeah, most of the kidnappers,

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Speaker 1: unlike Albert Fish, which again we'll get to one, we're

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00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: not doing it for sex or murder. They just wanted money,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. It became very clear that it was

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Speaker 1: hard for cops to catch kidnappers. Uh. And as it

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00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: became clear that that was the case, intelligent criminals realized

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00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: that kidnapping was very safe and very profitable. Uh. In

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Speaker 1: June of nineteen thirty two, the New York Times reported

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Speaker 1: on more than a dozen kidnapping cases, and one of them, Maggie,

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Speaker 1: was actually committed by my ancestor, Charles pretty Boy Floyd. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I saw that in the book. I was like, how

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Speaker 1: now I got a guy in the mix. So Pretty

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00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: Boy Floyd was a gangster. He was He's generally considered

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Speaker 1: to be the last of the big gangsters to die

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Speaker 1: because his death. Well, he gets shot in the field,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, that is cool. It's a great place to

424
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: get shot. So Donald Trump and I are current president,

425
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: have two things in common. One of them was a

426
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: literary agent, which is weird, you know, but and the

427
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: other is that Woody Guthrie wrote songs about both of

428
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: our ancestors. He wrote a song about Donald Trump's dad

429
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: because Donald Trump's dad denied tendency to black people. And

430
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: he wrote a song about Pretty Boy Floyd, my ancestor,

431
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: because my ancestor beat a cop to death of the

432
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: law change. Yeah. So uh. In in that year thirty two,

433
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: pretty Boy Floyd tried to kidnap an actress from Malibu

434
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: in ransom her. She was to be kidnapped and flown

435
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: to Mexico, but the police found out about it and

436
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: like ringed the street with cops at the last minute,

437
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: and Floyd somehow learned of the trap and never appeared.

438
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: And that's the end of this digression. But I had

439
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: to bring it up. That was so Yeah, everybody's gotten murderous.

440
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So the kidnapping wave grew and grew in

441
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: the thirties until it reached its apex with the kidnapping

442
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: of the Lindbergh Baby in nineteen two. Charles Lindberg was

443
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: an aviator, first man across the Atlantic, national hero, potential

444
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: presidential Canada, and anti Semitic fascist sympathizer. His wife in Lindberg,

445
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: was an acclaimed author and also probably probably they probably

446
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: talked about it. Probably, Yeah, I would guess y. Um,

447
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: their baby, Charles Jr. Was twenty months old and a

448
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: baby baby would have gon up to be racist, yeah,

449
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: but at the time was just a baby. Yeah, was

450
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: a baby. And he was kidnapped in March first, ninety

451
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: two and immediately pretty much killed on accident, probably saw

452
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 1: the ladder. We don't know. Um. Now. Up until this point,

453
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: the only other crime in American history this famous had

454
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: probably been the assassination of Lincoln. Like this is this

455
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: is like it's big, uh. And it inspired the creation

456
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: of the Federal Kidnapping Act and I think nine in

457
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: thirty four, which made transferring an unwilling person across state

458
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: lines a federal crime. Um. So the Lindberg kidnapping was

459
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: sort of the crest of a wave or a crime

460
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: meme that was then spreading through the culture. Uh. And

461
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: that wave kicked off with the crimes of Albert Fish,

462
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: although he would not be caught until nine. Yeah, that

463
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: is the other He went a very long time without

464
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: you know, any sort of reprimand for what he'd done.

465
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: And it's some of that's got to be just the

466
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: fact that, like, we didn't know how to be detectives

467
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: back then, and he changed his name and he doesn't

468
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: he's not glued to this reality in some way because

469
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: he's not like a super smooth criminal. He's messy. When

470
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: he abducts Grace Bud, he keeps all of his knives

471
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: wrapped up in like a kit that he calls his

472
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: implements of Hell. And when he goes to pick her up,

473
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: he leaves them at like a grocery store. He just

474
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: hands them to the clerk consents. Can you old base,

475
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: here's that poker cards I'll take I've got some extra

476
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: children you can. Twenties. Yeah, what a time. So nowadays,

477
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: when terrible things happened to the children of people like

478
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: the Newton shootings, when like a twenty people lost their

479
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: very young children to a man shooter, uh, they immediately

480
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 1: start getting harassed horribly online by Alex Jones fans who

481
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: think it's a false flag or whatever. Um, it's important

482
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: to note that that's not new. Blaming the parents kind

483
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: of is, but being incredibly shitty to parents who have

484
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: just lost a child is at least as old as

485
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: the twenties. This is a part I was not aware of.

486
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: So all of these families, these people we've talked about

487
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: whose kids get abducted, all of them get bombarded with

488
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: crank letters from just hundreds of random people. Um, here's

489
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: one letter the Gaffney family received. My dear friends, I

490
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: will be fine to boy my son in water rivers sellars,

491
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: look out, my god want back boy. I might have

492
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: gotten that exact same message on Twitter just in my

493
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: d m yea wow, you want another one? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Wait,

494
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: do not appear too anxious. Your son is in safe hands.

495
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: We fought for him, but I got him. Now we

496
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: will get the beaten boy for Billy to play with.

497
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: For Billy is lonesome. Do not show this letter to

498
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: anyone if you know what is good for you. Again,

499
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: I say that Billy is safe and that we are

500
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: experimenting on him. Um can I say that that sounds

501
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: exactly like when people tell their alien abduction stories, Like

502
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: what the aliens tell them like almost verbatim. Yeah, like

503
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: you can tell it's like someone actually hallucinating in their brain,

504
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: just firing words out into a waking dream or whatever. Yeah, yeah,

505
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: it just it sounds like a phasia. Yeah. Some other

506
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: assholes sent a letter to this grieving family saying quote,

507
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to kill him, God forgive me in

508
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: giving a pand drawn map of where his corpse was

509
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: supposedly buried. Police found nothing there. Uh, and the boys

510
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: got troops found nothing. Those were the police back. Yeah,

511
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: they had neckerchiefs instead of guns. It's a lot safer

512
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: for yeah, um murder, It was a lot safer. The

513
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: book Depraved also notes that psychic's pledged to aid in

514
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: the efforts, to no effect, obviously, along with an inventor

515
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: who arrived with what he called a mechanical bloodhound. Yeah

516
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: at well, it was just a divining rod with a

517
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: rubber tube attached to it, filled with Billy's hair. Appreciate

518
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: the app Yeah why not. Yeah, it didn't work either.

519
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 1: The Bud family also received crank letters. Depraved claims they

520
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: were receiving dozens every day for a while. Many of

521
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: them were like this, quote, my dear Mr and Mrs Bud,

522
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: your child is going to a funeral. I still got her.

523
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: Howard uh all caps uh and this I have Grace.

524
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: She is safe and sound. She is happy in her

525
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: new home and not at all homesick. I will see

526
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: to it that Grace has proper schooling. She has been

527
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: given it an angora cat and a pet canary she

528
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: calls the canary Bill. I am a keen student of

529
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: human nature. That's why I was attracted to Grace. She

530
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: seemed like a girl who would appreciate nice surroundings in

531
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: a real nice home. I drove with Grace past your

532
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: house in an automobile several days ago. I saw several

533
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: persons standing in front of the house and did not stop,

534
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: as it looked as though they were waiting for me.

535
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: I will see to it in the near future that

536
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: some arrangements are made so Grace will be able to

537
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: visit you for a short time. Why would you send that?

538
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: What is? What is? I don't know. I don't understand this.

539
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like at least one of those has

540
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: got to be like one or two people being like

541
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: if I say she's all right, maybe they'll feel better.

542
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: But then like I don't care. Yeah, I don't give

543
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: a ship. I'm not connected to this in any way. Yeah,

544
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: to be honest, I actually think these are worse than

545
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: the people the Alex Jones people who are harassing the

546
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: parents of dead kids on because at least those people

547
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: believe there's a crazy conspiracy. You just fucking with a

548
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: family for an no reason. It really makes me just

549
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: like what people did for fun back then. It was

550
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: a very boring time, very boring time, and one of

551
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: the biggest sports in the country right now that Dollop

552
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: does a great episode in this was pedestrianism, which is

553
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: just people walking in circles for weeks, like days, hundreds

554
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: of miles. So like, there's nothing to do at this point,

555
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: right Like World War One at least gave some people

556
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: something for a while. But make a victory garden, make

557
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: a victory garden, go die in the Yeah, both better

558
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: off in life in the twenties. Um so yeah, the letters. However,

559
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: we're not all entirely negative. There was a detective named

560
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: William King who was basically your stereotypical lantern jaw chain

561
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: smoking twenties detective like picture Dick Tracy. Of course, of course,

562
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: He's the guy if you just saw him walking down

563
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: the street and you had a problem, you would run

564
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: to him and be like, this is my chance to

565
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: be a fix all of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

566
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: He's that kind of detective. So he had gotten on

567
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: the Bud case right after Grace was subducted and spent

568
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: six fruitless years trying to track down her killer. Now

569
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, because this was the year that had

570
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: the Lindbergh trial and the kid had been kidnapped in

571
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: thirty two, but the trial wasn't thirty four. It was

572
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: a big year for awareness of kidnapping, and Detective King

573
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: decided to take one more stab at solving it. I

574
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: love that. It's like set up for a story. You're

575
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: giving me a hold up phase. It's great because he

576
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: fucking solves this case. Spoiler, but he does it in

577
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: like the most unethical way. It's super fun, so like

578
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: a lumbo like whatever. His strategy for years had been

579
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: to randomly call newspapers and lie about the Bud case

580
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: and just give them bullshit information so they would write

581
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: a story based on his lies that like said the essentially,

582
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: there's been a break in the case, and he did

583
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: this because every time it would happen, there would be

584
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: a shipload of more letters sent into the police with

585
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: tips and sent to the family, and he felt that

586
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: it kept the story fresh. So some people would say

587
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: it'sunethical to just repeatedly light to newspapers about a little

588
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: girl's abduction, but King was like, you gotta keep people

589
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: thinking about it. So his big the guy he would

590
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: do this most often with was a gossip columnist named

591
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: Walter Winchell. Most listeners will recognize him as one of

592
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: the rapid fire names spat Out and Billy Joel's we

593
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: Didn't Start the fire. He comes right before Joe to Maggio,

594
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: John McCarthy, Richard Nixon's Dud. Yeah okay. Uh So before

595
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: he was part of a classic song, he was America's

596
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: most famous gossip columnist. His column on Broadway was probably

597
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: the most influential piece of writing every given week in

598
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: New York City. Um so he's a big deal and

599
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: women gossip, Well, this guy, Walter Winchell probably said that

600
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: because I'm sure he was super massage. I mean, you

601
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: just gotta assume the woke guys have just gotten it

602
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: down to being okay with women. Voting at this point,

603
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a long road. Um. So. Walter

604
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: winchell Uh in early November, included this line or paragraph

605
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: in his column I checked on the Grace Bud mystery.

606
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: She was eight when she was kidnapped about six years ago.

607
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: It is safe to tell you that the Department of

608
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: Missing Persons will break the case, or they expect to

609
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: in four weeks. They're holding a cocaine now at Randall's Island,

610
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: who is said to know the most about the crime.

611
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: Grace is supposed to have been done away within line,

612
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: but another legend is that her skeleton is buried in

613
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 1: the local spot. More and on. So, um, that's all

614
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: lies right, It's not gonna be broke. But it just

615
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: so happened that Albert Fish was a habitual writer. Um,

616
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: which again I write, Robert walked me away from this cliff.

617
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: This is when you step in and tell me that

618
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: it's not about the same. You're much better writer than him.

619
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: Thank you. I don't know what you write in your

620
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: private time, but oh, I have all of Michaels right here.

621
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: They don't want to reach out of skin. Blood is

622
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: a piece of paper made of band aids. Yes, okay. Um.

623
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: So eleven days after this Walter Winchell column comes up,

624
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: the Buds receive a letter in the mail. Uh. And

625
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: one of the only mercies in this entire case is

626
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: that Grace Bud's mother gets the letter and she cannot

627
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: read um. Which is the only time in history you're

628
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: gonna be like, oh, thank God for a literacy, thank you.

629
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: That is a mercy in this case. Her son read

630
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: it and immediately goes to the police. As soon as

631
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: I start to read an exit from it, you will

632
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: be aware this is not like the other letters, and

633
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: it is this was written by Albert fish Um and

634
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: again eleven days after Winchell's column. So it seems like

635
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: Detective King's strategy worked. Yeah, he was like he knew beforehand,

636
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: you know, the whole Zodiact. And they like attention, like attention.

637
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: Detective King does not play by the rules, but he

638
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: gets results, gets results here that police do whatever you want. God.

639
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: You know, he pistol whipped COKEI. You know that was

640
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: like a weekly thing for Detective paying his pistol weapon

641
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,479
Speaker 1: of COKEI that one kick, Yeah, and then he tried

642
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: to stop it. Just loves pistol. Weapon. Yeah, and it's

643
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 1: it's more of an art than anything. I agree. Yeah. Yeah,

644
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: A good pisto, a solid pistol. It don't change someone's mind. Yeah,

645
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: it'll do something to their mind. Okay, um, so yeah.

646
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: The full text of the letter is available online. You

647
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: can find it if you wish. If you wish, wish,

648
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: you wish. If you do not wish, don't do not.

649
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: I will read a part of it, and I have.

650
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: I'm reading not the worst parts because we don't need that,

651
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: but I got to read some of it. Y have

652
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 1: you read this letter? I? Okay, Yeah. My dear miss

653
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: bud In, a friend of mine, shipped as a deckhand

654
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: on the steamer Tacoma Captain John Davis. They sailed from

655
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: San Francisco for Hong Kong, China. On arriving there, he

656
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: and two others went to shore and got drunk. When

657
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: they returned, the boat was gone. At that time, there

658
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: was a famine in China. Meat of any kind was

659
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: from one to three dollars a pound. So great was

660
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: the suffering among the very poor that all children under

661
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: twelve were sold to the butchers to be cut up

662
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: and sold for food. In order to keep others from starving.

663
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: A boy or girl under fourteen was not safe in

664
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 1: the street. You could go into any shop and ask

665
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: for steak, chops or stew meat. Part of the naked

666
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: body of the boy or girl would be brought out

667
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: and just what you wanted cut from it. A boy

668
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: or girls behind, which is the sweetest part of the body,

669
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 1: and sold as veal cutlet, brought the highest price. John

670
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: stayed there so long he acquired a taste for human flesh.

671
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: On his return to New York, he stole two boys,

672
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: one seven and one eleven, took them to his home,

673
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: stripped them naked, tied them in a closet, then burned

674
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: everything they had on several times a day and night.

675
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: He spanked them, tortured them to make their meat good

676
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: and tender. Uh. He then goes on into detail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

677
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: to make the meat tender. Yeah, it's not just spanking,

678
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: Albert Fish is not. There's one accused me of many things,

679
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: but that not needless spanking. There's gonna be a lot

680
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: more spanking. Um So, Albert Fish claims that this guy

681
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: that he met turned him onto the idea of how

682
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: good human flesh tasted. So he made up his mind

683
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: to try some of his own, and that's why he

684
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 1: abducted Grace bud In And he admits in the letter

685
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: and pretty graphic detailed, that he murdered Grace, cooked and

686
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: ate her. The letter ends on this line, it took

687
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: me nine days to eat her entire body. I did

688
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: not suck her, though I could have had. I wished

689
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: she died a virgin, which is I don't know what

690
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: your goal is with that. I guess again, it's one

691
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: of those things, it's like, well I did this, but

692
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: I did not. You know, a lot of I mean,

693
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: serial killers kind of do that. They'll admit to like

694
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: a part of it, but then take a hard stance

695
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: on another part they're accused of. Everyone wants to feel

696
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: like there's that line in the wire, and it's got

697
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: to have a code. Everybody's wants to feel like even

698
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: if you're eating children. So for him, like the goalpost

699
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: is so far this way that don't worry, I'm still

700
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: in the good. No. I mean, I murdered her and

701
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 1: ate her, and it gave me sexual gratification, but I

702
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: did not no, no, no, no, yeah, I was pleasing

703
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: every other sort of yeah, every other sort of way,

704
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: and he yeah, he goes into detail about that. So

705
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,479
Speaker 1: the horrible letter wound up being Fish is undoing, which

706
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: is again one of those rare times where justice happens.

707
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: That's another reason I do actually like this story. He

708
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: gets caught, only that he got caught because he just needed,

709
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 1: just needed to funk with this family one more time. Um.

710
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: So the way he got caught is he sent letters

711
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: that were stamped with the logo of the New York

712
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: Private Chauffeur's Benevolent Association. So the cops eventually found a

713
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: janitor for that very specific group who admitted to having

714
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: stolen a bunch of paper and envelopes from work and

715
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: left them in his room when he moved out. The

716
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: guy who moved into the room after him was Albert Fish. Um,

717
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: since he had moved out. Fish had moved out by

718
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: the time they found him, but his son was in

719
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: the w p A, which is one of those new

720
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: deal organizations where you like, that's where we get National Parks.

721
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: Was these young men like building ship. So he would

722
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: send his dad regular checks. And Fish had moved out

723
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: of the room, but he had one more check coming

724
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: and he told his landlord that he would be back

725
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: for it's the landlord told the cops, this guy's not

726
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: here anymore, but he's gonna be back in a few

727
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: days to get his check. So the cops waited for him.

728
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's how he was caught. Detective King caught

729
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: Albert Fish. He was eventually convicted of murder and sentenced

730
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: iva electric chair, which is exactly what happened. Um. So

731
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: that's the story of Albert Fish and Broad We've got

732
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: a lot more to drill into. Uh. We're gonna be

733
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: talking some more about how Maggie found out that she

734
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: was related to this guy, and then we're going to

735
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: go a lot deeper into Albert Fish is psyche. Uh

736
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be very dark. My skin is crawling. Excellent,

737
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: that's how you should feel on this podcast. All right,

738
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: uh capitalism, we're back. Uh now when we we just

739
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: now kind of got through talking about the broad strokes

740
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: of the story of Albert Fish, uh, and now I

741
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: wanted to sort of talk about your personal journey of

742
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: figuring out you related to this guy. Okay, personal journey, Yeah,

743
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: your own personal fish journey like a salmon swimming to

744
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: return to Robert. I tell me about my life. What

745
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: was it like? Well, I know that I know that

746
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: bears are involved, and I know that you swim upstream

747
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 1: and then we prograte and then we sent downstream. Yes,

748
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: well I think usually you get eaten by bears. Okay, yeah,

749
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: that's I don't that's most of what I know about fish.

750
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: And we get redwoods because of fish. Oh yeah, well

751
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: you're welcome. Yeah, well what's my favorite Traine? So how

752
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: did I find out the first time that I heard this?

753
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: I was five or six um Grandpa's cottage and my

754
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: uncles were working on our family tree. I was playing,

755
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: like on the stairs or something, and my dad came

756
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: down and I have this as a memory on the

757
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: stairs and was like, Maggie, you're related to someone from

758
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: a long time ago who was a bad person and

759
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: he went to jail. And as a kid, I was like, oh,

760
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: that is so cool, Like I'm related to like an

761
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: old timey bat picture or something. Oh yeah, I was like,

762
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: ah an outlaw fun. For years I lived under that

763
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: delusion that it was just some sort of like nebulous

764
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: probably robbed banks to give it to poor people, that

765
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: kind of thing, like supporting, you know, his daughter that

766
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: he loved and he put her through higher education. He

767
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: had to take that hospital by armed force so that

768
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 1: his kid could get the surgery he need. Yeah, boy,

769
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: I respect him for it, because you know, we don't

770
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 1: want to think yeah much like the detective. The detective. Yeah,

771
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 1: I would be really proud to be this guy's relevant

772
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: the only cop I'll say that about. But yeah, really

773
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: actually though, yeah, yeah, So for just and then I

774
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: just kind of like forgot about it, um until it

775
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: was actually pretty recently, maybe two years ago. I was

776
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 1: listening to my favorite murderer, Oh Boy, very fun podcast.

777
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,479
Speaker 1: If you guys listen to this, maybe you also listen

778
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: to them. They're great. But they had an episode in

779
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: Albert Fish, and just from the title, I was like,

780
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: oh Fish, Oh I'm related to Oh no, oh god no.

781
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: So you learned the details about this guy from a

782
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: podcast from a two lovely women just describing the horrors

783
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: of what you've done. So I'm putting together in my

784
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: head a story about what happened with your dad that

785
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: day in your in your family cottage, and the story

786
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: in my head is that he's with some other member

787
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: of your family doing genealogy and they're like, we're related

788
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: to somebody famous, and without waiting to hear more, he

789
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: runs steps to just belts down there ferns and then

790
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: goes back up learns the second half of the story,

791
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh god, what if we just don't

792
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: anything else. Let's just let this be a dream in

793
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: her head. Yeah, let's just she's young, right, she will

794
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: forget this question. What do you think the odds are

795
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: of like a global information network arising and then needing

796
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: to like a new replacement for radio that spreads even

797
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: wider and like involves long form stories about that will

798
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: never happen, right never, We'll be fine. Now, let's just

799
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: not tell her anything else. So, boy, I like knowing

800
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: my father. That's a very like jovial man. Just got

801
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: so excited, excited. So you learn about Albert Fish from

802
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: a podcast, Yes, which was very surprising because I was

803
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: into true crime like a long time before that. Uh,

804
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: and I had just never come across Albert Fish maybe

805
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: because he was so old. I was more like your

806
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: Bundy or whatever. Yeah, And I had just moved to California,

807
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: so it was more interested in like, like the sacrament

808
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 1: so many it's so rich. So for just some reason,

809
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: I had never come across it um until that day.

810
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: And then I wa article and then I called my

811
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: father and he was cooking potato soup and I asked him.

812
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: I was like, Dad, so, uh Albert Fish that were

813
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: related to, and very calmly, like my father is very calm,

814
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: level headed. He's like, oh, let me just let me

815
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: just check my email real quick. Yeah, yep, yes, Albert Fish.

816
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: Uh yeah that's the guy. Oh God, So he didn't

817
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: know actually, I guess, yeah, I think a similar thing

818
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 1: he like kind of knew or like at least I

819
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: didn't know all of the details um or at least

820
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: like had just forgotten and then was like re excited by,

821
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: like yeah, it's Albert fisher Man killed night children. It

822
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: was called the weara Wolf, Visteria, the Gray Man, the Boogeyman. So, like,

823
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: I have very mixed feelings about true crime in general,

824
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: because like the book that I love the most that

825
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: I read in high school was probably In Cold Blood,

826
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: which I still think it's really good. I mean it

827
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 1: started the genre, but also there's definitely an extent of

828
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: and I know that my own show, because of our focus,

829
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: runs the risk of crossing this territory too. Of just

830
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 1: like it's important to study these people because it's always

831
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: important to study the worst and most dangerous people for

832
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: the same reason that you like, look when you hear

833
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: a car crash. But there's a line and I many tickle, Yeah,

834
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: doing these like film analysis, there's a lot of that

835
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: of people like having their cake and eating it too,

836
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: of like what you want to say, but then what

837
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: ends up happening, and a lot of true crime can

838
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: end up glorifying is a strong work. But making a party, yeah,

839
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: and this is definitely not a party story, um, and

840
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: neither are any of the other stories we have on here.

841
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: I do think like one of the things that I

842
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: think is the in terms of useful lessons that we

843
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: get from this is less about how Albert Fish actually acted,

844
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: because he was he was just he was a monster, um,

845
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: but more about how everyone else, like the fucking crank

846
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: letters and stuff like just how people funk with the families,

847
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: and that's always been a thing, right, and that it

848
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: is still happening and that it's just evolved with the mediums.

849
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: That's really interesting to me. Yeah, And I think there's

850
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 1: a lesson in there about like sort of human nature,

851
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: which is that we're garbage. We are garbage, garbage, We'll

852
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: jump on anything. And also I guess like a lesson

853
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: from like the mob and like that kind of mentality

854
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: that like, yeah, you know, it's it's okay to have

855
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: very strong feelings and be afraid. Like I think that

856
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: is totally okay. Um. I am curious as to like,

857
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: how did you feel like is there because this is

858
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: a story we get to it mental illness, What was

859
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: the like the thought process of accepting that this is

860
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: a part of your past, like your family's pass right,

861
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: It's weird. It does also seem like a cautionary tale

862
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: obviously for mental illness and what it can lead to

863
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: if it is not addressed, which I kind of blame

864
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: the rest of the family for probably because there are

865
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 1: just so many stories of him doing just rolling around

866
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: in rugs and yeah, following himself, I am christ while

867
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: beating his own as metal Paddle will delve into that

868
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 1: in a minute here, which again, you know, in the twenties,

869
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: what language do you use for a family member who

870
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: would like eat carpet if you left them alone? You know? Um,

871
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: but again, like they didn't do anything to stop or

872
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: help or and like his son kind of just like

873
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: kept giving him money, um, which you know, in a

874
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: lot of ways, we didn't have uh protocols to follow.

875
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: People also didn't want to talk about mental illness, so

876
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: it's rather let's not talk about it and just let

877
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: our crazy uncle just be yeah, which I think is

878
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: still dangerous if we don't talk about, you know, the

879
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: mental illnesses that we have. Um. Yeah, it's it's hugely

880
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: important to talk about mental health in general, because people

881
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: need that sort of vocabulary and need to I do think,

882
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: and this will make a little once we get a

883
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: little bit further. I'm sure we'll talking about this more.

884
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: But I do think this is a case of a

885
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 1: guy who very likely it's possible that he'd been killing

886
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: people for decades. It's also possible these are his only

887
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: three killings, and if he in his forties or fifties

888
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: even could have been potentially stopped from hurting any Right. Yeah,

889
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: it's hard, it's like we can't know for sure, but

890
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: that is a possible avenue here if his family members,

891
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: who clearly loved him, had like been like what the hell, man, Like,

892
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: let's instead of just not talking about this, let's talk

893
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: about talk about this. Let's talk about Kevin. But it's

894
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: always like everybody knows like you and I are both

895
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 1: white people, so like there's this assumption and with everybody,

896
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 1: it's true that like someone who you're related to far

897
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: enough alongline did something terrible, whether it was slavery or

898
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: something else, that's just the world. Um. But there's something

899
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: different when it's someone who was recent enough that like, no,

900
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: we have a specific name, we know this guy is

901
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: in our line, here's where he is, and here's what

902
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: he did. Yeah, um, yeah, I had a weird moment

903
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,720
Speaker 1: because pretty boy Floyd was like my family is always

904
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: talking about has always talked about that. My grandma, who

905
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: was otherwise a very conservative lady, was super press. You

906
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: would always tell us, you know, you got outlaw blood,

907
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: and yeah she was proud. She was super proud. And

908
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: I read about he was like this guy was Robin

909
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: Banks and murdering cops, like the Woody Guthrie song is

910
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: about he's riding into town with his wife and a

911
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: cop curses in front of him and so he just

912
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: beats the man to death with a lock chain. That song.

913
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: It's interesting the way like families talk about these kind

914
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: of people and then when you actually dig into their

915
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: lives and you're like, oh man, this guy was not

916
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: a good person a person. There is definitely kind of

917
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: like a little bit of hangover guilt, but really you know,

918
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: there's something you can really do know and you're like

919
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: you sitting of his brother, Yeah, yeah, who didn't do

920
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: anything that I'm aware of, right, And it's like, well,

921
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: if they're going to hide Albert Fish, then like I won't.

922
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: I'm related to them. No, And there's some fucking Hitler

923
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: people around here with lyons to Hitler and like they

924
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong because nephew just ran over here

925
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: during the war because yeah he had a nephew who

926
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: like joined the Navy and stuff. Yeah. It was just like,

927
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: felt real bad about having Hitler is an uncle. It's

928
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: really sorry. No, you're not responsible for your family's crimes. Yeah,

929
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: but you can inherit their wealth. Yeah, you had a

930
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: great system going here. Okay. So, in addition to reading Deranged,

931
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: which is legitimately good book, I also watched this documentary

932
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: Albert Fish when I was prepping for this. It's directed

933
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: by a named John Borowski, and it is one of

934
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: the worst documentaries I've ever seen. It is very ugly,

935
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: very little creativity involved, creepy voice acting, but bland recreations

936
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: of aspects of the crimes. But then then Maggie. Fifteen

937
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: minutes into this execrable documentary, we meet John Coleman. John

938
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: Coleman as an artist who collects serial killer memory abelia

939
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: and dresses exactly like you'd expect based on that description,

940
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: extremely ornate waistcoats. I'm gonna have you describe him. He

941
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: has Albert Fish's original letter framed in his house, and

942
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put him on. We're gonna plan him

943
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: for a couple of seconds. I'm gonna have you describe him,

944
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna play the rest of his story

945
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: about how he came to own that letter. Okay, this

946
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 1: is um what I've always said is the Magna Carta

947
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: of crime artifacts. This is the Albert Fish Letter. The

948
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 1: most you wanna you wanna take a shot at describing

949
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: John Coleman described his face or my face watching his face,

950
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: I will describe your face because you you look like

951
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: you just saw a dog like start to tap dance

952
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: like that, like slack jawed, but but not in a

953
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: positive way. He looks like he's licked that letter several times,

954
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: like before he framed it, he tried to get us

955
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: close to that inc Yeah, he has definitely stroked that

956
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: letter while tweaking his own nipple and times. Yeah. And

957
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: he's super RNA waistcoat. Yeah yes, yeah, yeah. All right.

958
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: Here's him describing how he came to have Albert Fish's

959
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: original creepy murder letter. Tragic and painful document to a monster.

960
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: That's it's ever in print and I have it, so

961
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm honored to have it. So I've always felt that

962
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: the objects themselves, um, have desires of their own, how

963
00:52:55,400 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: they come here for for their own reasons? Did he

964
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: make didn't he draw that? Oh? Yeah, yeah, he drew

965
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: that picture of Albert Fish like a severed head of

966
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: a little girl. Um, the horrors of the world. It's

967
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: not about trying to um, oh my god, this is

968
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: some act that Jordan Peterson. And but yeah, like the

969
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: creepy paintings that he makes that, like the painting Listeners

970
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: is a painting of Albert Fish. Very almost looks like

971
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 1: a mad magazine. Yeah, very like grimy, and it almost

972
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: looks like an our crumb drawing. Uh. And so it's

973
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: but it's the picture of Albert Fish and he's holding

974
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: the severed head of Little Grace, and it's terrifyingly creepy.

975
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: The way he says the word monster, it's with awe,

976
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: it's not with judgment. Yeah, this is not a guy

977
00:53:54,920 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: who is like, I don't sense respect for like the

978
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: gravity of the crimes here. He's a creepy dude. I

979
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: should email him and be like, dude, that is my relative.

980
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: I would like that letter. I think it wants to

981
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,919
Speaker 1: be with me. I think I think that object wants

982
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: to travel to me. So the creepy house that he's in,

983
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: he calls it the auditorium. I'm gonna one guess as

984
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: to how he spells auditorium the way yeah, that way, yeah, yeah,

985
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: the way that creepy dick would spell it. Yeah. Uh.

986
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: And here's how he describes the auditorium in his website quote.

987
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: Joe Coleman is a collector. He collects fascinating friends. He

988
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: collects artifacts related to infamous historical events. He collects sideshow

989
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: and serial killer ephemera. He collects religious artifacts that call

990
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: to his obsessions with violence, with twinning, and with power.

991
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 1: Like his art, his collection is filled with reliquaries containing

992
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: the twin power of both the sacred and profane. Welcome

993
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 1: to the auditorium. So yeah, that's Joe Coleman. There has

994
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 1: definitely been like Secret Society is and just have their

995
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: meetings there. Yeah, but not the good ones. Oh no, No,

996
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 1: that the ones that it's like, oh, you guys are

997
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: this is where the Masons are at these days. Oh.

998
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 1: I think I'm just gonna go grab a beer. Yeah,

999
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: anywhere on the street. Yeah, maybe join the Mormon Church.

1000
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: I'll just walk around for weeks on end because I'd

1001
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: rather do that. Anything sound better than sitting around here

1002
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: with you people. Um. You know, Joe's a painter, as

1003
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: we already get into, and he believes he was put

1004
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 1: on this earth to express the pain of the world through,

1005
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: for example, elaborate face paintings with the separate heads of

1006
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: small children. Um. Now, he believes the objects he collects

1007
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: want to be his. And we're going to play the

1008
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: excerpt now that actually does explain how he wound up

1009
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: owning that letter because spoiler alert, he kind of stole

1010
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: it from the government. Yeah. Life, I was trying to

1011
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: get like the police records and this stuff, and I

1012
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 1: go into Westchester. I'm trying to get a xerox copy

1013
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: of the letter, the infamous letter that he that Albert

1014
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: Fish wrote to the mother of Grace Bud And that's

1015
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: all I want. I just wanted xerox compy with a

1016
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: letter for my research. And as fate would have it,

1017
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:24,280
Speaker 1: Um secretary there takes the letter xerox a said, Um

1018
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,919
Speaker 1: goes over to me and gives me the actual letter.

1019
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,720
Speaker 1: I looked at it. He came as soon as that happened.

1020
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: He then walked away with the xerox compy, put in

1021
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: a file and put in the cabinet. Okay, then I

1022
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: knew that Fisher wanted me to have it. He didn't

1023
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: want anything. He just doesn't want anything. He didn't and

1024
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: he doesn't. I'm gonna tell you something I know has

1025
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: happened in that guy's life on a weekly basis. Is

1026
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: he has opened a door for a woman with a

1027
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: very exceptional flourish and then said after you, milady, oh yes,

1028
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: and then kissed her hand. Oh my god. So many times,

1029
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: so many times, and so many like complaints from co

1030
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: workers for the hand kissing. Andy, He's been asked to stop.

1031
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: He's that guy. He's a thousand percent that guy. I

1032
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: don't like Joe Coleman. Um, we're gonna play one more

1033
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: segment from later in the documentary where Joe Coleman tries

1034
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: to explain why Albert Fish did not sexually assault. This

1035
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 1: would be great to hear him explain that. That would

1036
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: be I could see it on your face. You were

1037
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: waiting for him to weigh in on why Albert Fish

1038
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: didn't rape the child. Yeah. Fish embodies this kind of

1039
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: pathology that there was something saintly and beautiful about suffering,

1040
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: but there's something ugly and repugnant about sex. Because he

1041
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: saved a little grace Bud from this terrible crime. You know,

1042
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: he kept saying, I did not defile her, and I

1043
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: know from my Catholic upbrand he was a Catholic. Doesn't

1044
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: exist certain truth that he's saying that any Catholic is

1045
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: going to know. Albert Fish by mutilating and cutting this

1046
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: little girl up in pieces and doing this horrible thing

1047
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: to her, he's made her into this martyr. You know,

1048
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: he's made her into this um creature. Actually defiling a

1049
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: body is against well, the Catholic Church, I'm pretty sure,

1050
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,959
Speaker 1: so cutting it up actually, uh, not that he cares

1051
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:47,919
Speaker 1: about any of the Yeah, I don't think it's definitely true.

1052
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: We're going to get into this a little bit. That

1053
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: Fish is peculiar personal brand of Christianity super had an

1054
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: impact on his crimes. But I think what Joe was

1055
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: saying there is full of ship, because yeah, any Catholic

1056
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: knows that there's a way in which she became a martyr.

1057
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? No no, no, no, no,

1058
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: no no no. Okay. Um. So, Albert Fish had a

1059
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: history known to his family a very creepy religious behavior.

1060
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty four, his son Albert Jr. Was living

1061
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: with him in a small apartment. One day, he came

1062
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: upon his father barrass naked in the middle of the

1063
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: living room, holding his erect penis and paddling himself on

1064
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: the ass with a nail filled paddle. His ass was

1065
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: red and bloody, and he was drenched in sweat. This

1066
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: made Albert Junior recall an incident in ninety two when

1067
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: he was playing football with his two brothers. Here's how

1068
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: Deprave describes it. Albert had just bent down to catch

1069
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: a low kick Albert the younger, not the murderer, uh

1070
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: And as he straightened up to boot the ball back

1071
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: to Henry. He caught sight of his father standing in

1072
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: the apple orchard on the little hill behind the bungalow.

1073
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: The old man had his right hand raised high in

1074
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: the air and was shouting something over and over. Albert

1075
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: had strained to listen. The old man was shouting I

1076
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: am Christ, which is like his catchphrase, which shout I

1077
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: Am Christ a lot, particularly while beating himself. Uh. He

1078
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,479
Speaker 1: also had a habit of lighting his own ass on fire.

1079
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: He was a huge fan of flooding. Well, you know,

1080
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: once you hit it with nails, that's like a sharp pain.

1081
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: You're like, what's the dull overall? Pay? Yeah, what's what

1082
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: else can I do? My fire? Yeah? Burn it? Burn it?

1083
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: Um so another at time, Albert Jr. Found several of

1084
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: his dad's homemade nail studded, bloody and rusted paddles. He

1085
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: asked his father for an explanation, which is the start

1086
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: of the conversation that you should be having you uh

1087
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: and Albert fish. His dad explained, quote, I use them

1088
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: on myself. I get these feelings that come over me,

1089
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: and every time they do, I have to torture myself

1090
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: with those paddles. Period. Should have been a longer, should

1091
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: have been longer. I'm punishing myself with paddles because I'm Christ,

1092
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: because I'm um so. Albert Fish had a very very long,

1093
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: very very long history of writing and saying and unbelievably

1094
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: creepy letters to random women. He would find them in

1095
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: newspapers through matrimonial agencies, classified ads. A lot of times

1096
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: there were women letting out rooms who are like landladies,

1097
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: and he would just like start, he would, yeah, he start,

1098
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: he would start. He would just send them these crazy

1099
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: letters and they would some of them would start kind

1100
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: of reasonable and then would descend to him asking for

1101
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: paddl ngs. Well, usually they're paddling focused one way or

1102
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: the other. Uh. He would pretend to be a Hollywood

1103
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: agent in some cases. Uhain. Here's a quote from one

1104
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: letter he sent to a woman while he was pretending

1105
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: to be Mr Hollywood. I wish you could see me now.

1106
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: I am sitting in a chair naked. The pain is

1107
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 1: across my back, just over my behind. When you strip

1108
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: me naked, you will see a most perfect form. Yours, yours,

1109
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: sweet honey of my heart. I can taste your sweet piss,

1110
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: your sweet shit. You must peepee in a glass, and

1111
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: I shall drink every drop of it as you watch me.

1112
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: Tell me when you want to number two, I will

1113
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: take you over my knees, pull up your clothes, take

1114
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: down your drawers, and hold my mouth to your sweet

1115
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: honey fat assid and eat your sweet peanut butter as

1116
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: it comes that fresh and hot. This is how they

1117
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: do it in Hollywood. Yeah, you know, part of me

1118
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: is like, maybe he got some kicks off that way.

1119
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: He was definitely getting yeah, yeah, yeah, but you think, yeah,

1120
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: it probably did work with some people. Like statistically, you

1121
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: send a lot of letters out, so there are a

1122
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: ton of his creepy letters that you can read if

1123
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: you want to read depray, if you can just lift

1124
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: them up online. We're not gonna read every piece of correspondence,

1125
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: she said, I don't want to go over a little

1126
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: bit more of it. Though. A number of woman came

1127
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 1: forward after he was arrested when he was like in

1128
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: court and his letter was made public. And these are

1129
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: people who had been freaked out by his letters before

1130
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 1: and in some cases had kept them and hadn't known

1131
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: what to do because like like nowadays, if you're a woman,

1132
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 1: because of the Internet, men are going to send you

1133
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: terrifying things. That's just what happens. But back then, some

1134
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 1: lady would just receive a letter that's like the sixteen

1135
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: pages in the mail. Yeah, have a guy talking about

1136
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: wanting his ass paddled or wanting you to poop on him,

1137
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: and you you just didn't have any What do you do?

1138
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: What do you? And you don't tell your girlfriends, but

1139
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: you don't know if like this part of being a

1140
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: person really do in the Hollywood? That one I just

1141
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,439
Speaker 1: imagine like looking out at mailboxes and just thinking, because

1142
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: everyone getting letters like this is this just life? Why

1143
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: is no one talking about this? Um? So he sent

1144
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: the other kind of families of letters that he would

1145
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: have is he would he would message women, generally landladies,

1146
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: telling them that he had an adult son who was

1147
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: mentally ill and needed to be spanked regularly. And sometimes

1148
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: he would send them like a dozen letters, like very

1149
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: long conversations where they would agree like okay, I can

1150
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: spank him if he's bad, and then he like go

1151
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: on to specify, no, it needs to be done that

1152
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: like why I like it? This is how I like it.

1153
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: The doctor says, three or four good spankings a day

1154
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: on his bear behind will do him good as he

1155
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: is nice and fat in that spot. It will be

1156
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: an aid to him. When he don't mind you, then

1157
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: you must strip him down and use the cat on

1158
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: nine tails. Say you won't hesitate to use the paddle

1159
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 1: or cat of nine tails on him when he needs it.

1160
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: Now that's one paragraph. There are pages of him detailing

1161
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: how to spank his fake son. He was very concerned

1162
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: about making sure it was the right way, his fake son,

1163
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: my nucket spank the right way. And he's clearly doing

1164
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 1: this to get off, which is creepy and not okay.

1165
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: But this is what I suspect. This is most of

1166
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: what he did up until he committed those murders. Yeah,

1167
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: it feels like this was him, you know, the escalation exactly,

1168
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 1: starting with letters doing that, always, the fascination with the

1169
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 1: butts though that's fat butts, fat but but you know,

1170
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: in a different timeline, with like right medication, he would

1171
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: have just liked, uh, fat bottom girls rule the world. Well, yeah,

1172
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: exactly different person. You know. Freddie Mercury could have saved

1173
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: him and all of those people. He could Freddie Mercury

1174
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: could have done anything, could have done. I y This

1175
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: is yet another case where if we had a time machine,

1176
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: you get Freddie Mercury and you just travel around time,

1177
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: you'd fix a couple of fix a couple of things

1178
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: here and there. Uh So, in nineteen thirty, though, Albert

1179
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: Fish sent his insane creepy letters to the wrong damn woman,

1180
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: a housekeeper named She sent the letter to the police,

1181
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: and since he had included a return address, because he

1182
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: was open to keep up this count, Yeah, they were

1183
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 1: able to find and arrest him because it's not legal

1184
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: to send horrifying like that strangers even back there, Yeah,

1185
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: even back then. He was sent to Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital

1186
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: to be diagnosed, and he spent a few weeks there.

1187
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: He was found to be sexually psychotic, which seems fair. Ye,

1188
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a cross wire yet. But they also though,

1189
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: found that he was quiet and cooperative. They said he

1190
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: conducted himself in an orderly, a normal manner, and his

1191
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: bad behavior was mostly chalked up to the fact that

1192
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 1: he was old and probably senile, so he was released

1193
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: after too long. Uh Now. In one he was arrested

1194
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: again for sending obscene letters to a woman who owned

1195
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: a boarding school in the area. This time, the police

1196
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: searched his home and found his homemade Cata nine tails,

1197
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 1: as well as a frankfurter and a carrot, both really

1198
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: gross looking. I wonder where those we have been. Well.

1199
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 1: The cops asked him why he had these in his dresser,

1200
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: and Fish replied, I stick him up my ass, mr St.

1201
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: You know, to his credit, he was honest because he

1202
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: was crazy and doesn't realize was not hiding it. Yeah.

1203
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 1: Uh So during the trial, you know, when he was

1204
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: finally caught and stuff, it was revealed that Fish's original

1205
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: plan had been to abduct a teenage boy rather than Grace.

1206
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 1: He had planned to tie up Edward, slice off his penis,

1207
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: and then skipped down while the boy bled to death

1208
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: because he didn't want to kill him. He just wanted

1209
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: the penis and well, he wanted to kill him, but

1210
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: he wanted to take a long time. Yeah. Yeah, Grace

1211
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: was a consolation murder victim. Uh and he usually he

1212
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: would sometimes refer to Grace as a hymn, just because

1213
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 1: I guess he wanted it that way. I think he

1214
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: wanted it that way. Um So. In interviews with police,

1215
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: Albert Fish reported a general sort of amusement and confettlement

1216
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: over why he had killed Grace, saying, first, you know,

1217
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: I never could account for it. Um. He would later

1218
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: claim that his brother had served in the navy in China,

1219
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: because he claimed it before. Later he said it was

1220
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: his brother. I don't think yeah, I don't think either

1221
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 1: was there was. The family was kind of just like

1222
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: doing normal things, which is so. And all his kids

1223
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: turned up really normal. Yeah, and they seem in the story,

1224
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: they seem pretty normal, like they have a range of

1225
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: different reactions. Um, because his daughters are kind of in

1226
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: his court. And so he was always a good dad,

1227
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: like all the kids. Really, he was a good dad. Yeah,

1228
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: and he's he's He never even hit his kids, which

1229
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: is weird for that period of year because everybody hit

1230
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: kids in twenties, but not Albert Fish. He would just

1231
01:07:51,520 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: hit himself yea again and the kids. Yeah, the gold poster. Yeah. Um.

1232
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 1: So he would later tell a detective King that he

1233
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: traced his problems back to the fact that when he

1234
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: was five years old, he was placed in an orphanage

1235
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: by his mother. His dad was seventy five when he

1236
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: was born, and his dad had died when he was

1237
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: very young, and as soon as that happened his mom

1238
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: put him in the orphanage. He said he saw a

1239
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: lot of things a child of seven should not see. Um.

1240
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: I yea, not to say that there's not truth too.

1241
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 1: I'm sure some either it was. He's always like, had

1242
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 1: you know this mental problem? Or yeah, there's usually an

1243
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: inciting incident. He says they were whipped in the orphanage,

1244
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: which definitely happened in the orphanages back then, So maybe

1245
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: that's where it started. Yeah. And if you're you know,

1246
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: developing sexually and on someon's a little due and you're

1247
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: getting hit on all the time, that's your thing. That's

1248
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: how it works. Yeah, we're amazing machines. Um, we should

1249
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: be trusted with so much great we have missiles. It

1250
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 1: was a real solid element for species with our sorts

1251
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: of impulse control. Um. Yeah. So further investigation determined that

1252
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: Fisher's legal troubles had actually started back in nineteen o three,

1253
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: when he had spent sixteen months in prison on grand larceny.

1254
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 1: He'd been arrested six times just since Grace Bud subduction,

1255
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: sometimes for sending horrible letters to people, sometimes for vagrancy

1256
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: or for passing bad checks. Uh in court he was

1257
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 1: no clearer on why he'd killed Grace, saying, quote, the

1258
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 1: temptation just came over me. That's all I can say.

1259
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 1: I can't account for it. I don't understand it. But

1260
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: he was always emphatic that he had not had sex

1261
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 1: with her, saying, no sirer, no cer, no sex at all.

1262
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: I did not outrage her, which I think murdering someone

1263
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: outrages them. Probably, yeah, I guess. And also I think

1264
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 1: he was probably gay, So that's that's probably a huge

1265
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: reason why he didn't with Grace. Yeah, and he does

1266
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: seem to be the who will talk about in a

1267
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: minute here. The psychiatrist who diagnosed him did come to

1268
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: the conclusion that he was on the second um, but

1269
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 1: he was a lot of things and I wouldn't. Yeah,

1270
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: And that's almost like why you even mention it, because

1271
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 1: his sexuality is like a pollock painting, like it is.

1272
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 1: It is a mess, it's all over the place. Yeah. Um.

1273
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: So the media was as gross as you would expect

1274
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: from everything we've talked about in this story when they

1275
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,599
Speaker 1: covered the trial Depraved. The book notes that a single

1276
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: article in The Mirror called fish the ogre of murder Lodge,

1277
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: the vampire man, an orgiastic fiend, and the werewolf of Wistaria,

1278
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: all in the same article, the same that pros is

1279
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: so purple it's red. Yeah. Uh, here's a quote from

1280
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:42,560
Speaker 1: that article. Out of the slime of the sadistic butchery

1281
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 1: of Grace bud By, the benign looking Albert Howard fish

1282
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: there emerged last night the hint of an even greater horror,

1283
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 1: a horror of multiple killings, revealing a new type of

1284
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper in the guise of a kindly old gentleman. Wow. Yeah,

1285
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: that's weird that they describe him as kind and like

1286
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 1: normal looking, because he wasn't because he looks creepy. Yeah,

1287
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 1: And it's it's clear like at the time when you

1288
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 1: talk about his first crimes, people noticed him, like they

1289
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: were like, there was a creepy looking gray dude walking

1290
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 1: around that must be who abducted the child. And then

1291
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 1: we're not wrong. No, No, he was the guy, like, yeah, uh,

1292
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: he looks like the guy that if you like see

1293
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: him walking around the plague, I'm just going to call

1294
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: the cops like this, No, I feel like there should

1295
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 1: just be some armed me around. I would I Like,

1296
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: I hate doing that because there are plenty of wonderful

1297
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 1: people who do look creepy and vice versa, but he

1298
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:40,639
Speaker 1: is the one that you look at and was like no, no, no, no, no, no,

1299
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: uh no, yeah, and in fact, go to our website

1300
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,560
Speaker 1: to look at those pictures. Um Fish's case was confusing,

1301
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 1: as that last quote to people of the time, because he,

1302
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 1: aside from his criminal record, he didn't fit society's profile

1303
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: of a sex murderer. Um. He was a descendant of

1304
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:58,719
Speaker 1: American aristocracy, which I guess you are too. Yeah, something

1305
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 1: revolution senary dude, right, yeah, famous revolutionary dude. And he

1306
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: was also related to guess he was like a in

1307
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: the treasury in d c Um Hamilton's Fish. Yeah, that

1308
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 1: sounds like a treasury name. Yeah. There's a lot of

1309
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: official checks with his like ostentatious signature on it. Um

1310
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: and Hamilton's Fish actually deleted some historical records that connects

1311
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: them as yes, which we ran into that big gap

1312
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: while doing our family trees, Like ge, why did he

1313
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 1: seems like a welcome up to try to cover up

1314
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 1: he was related to this man that's amazing, same last name,

1315
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 1: oh man, Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, okay, so who's worse

1316
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: it came out during all this that his wife had

1317
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: abandoned him and the kids were very young and left

1318
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: the kids with him. Um and again, as we said,

1319
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: he'd been a decent dad. And you can't blame because

1320
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 1: the wifes gave testimony at the trial and we're just

1321
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 1: talked about the same things that kids had seen. They

1322
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: had seen, but they were not okay with it. They

1323
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 1: were fucking terrified of him, right left, which fair, totally fair,

1324
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,600
Speaker 1: especially in a time when no one has a vocabulary

1325
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: to discuss something. Again, not cool to leave the kids

1326
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 1: with him, that's a questionable move. I don't agree with

1327
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: that choice, which is made weirder by the fact that

1328
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 1: he was apparently fine as a dad. Yeah, but there's

1329
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 1: no way that woman could have no no, they just ran. Yeah,

1330
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: And I guess some of it's probably that I imagine

1331
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,719
Speaker 1: at that time, if you went to court for custody

1332
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 1: of the kids, it was probably easier for the man

1333
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 1: to win back then. I don't know enough about how

1334
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,440
Speaker 1: the laws were. But also maybe she was a little homophobic,

1335
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: insults something like that she didn't like, so it was

1336
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 1: just like you know, or maybe yeah, maybe it was

1337
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: oddly woke and that they just thought he was gay,

1338
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: and we're like, well, gay people can raise kids just fine.

1339
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 1: I just don't want to be Yeah. Who knows. But

1340
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 1: he was clearly very angry at his wife for leaving,

1341
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 1: and he in fact stated a number of times yeah.

1342
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,679
Speaker 1: He wrote a letter to his daughter Gertrude and said,

1343
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 1: all I hope for, all I want to live for

1344
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: is to be able to go in court that I

1345
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 1: may tell what a bitch of a mother you all had,

1346
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: the kind of wife I had? Wow, And you know what,

1347
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: he I bet he got it, like I bet he

1348
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 1: got to say he did. He wrote a letter to

1349
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: his daughter Annie and said, tell old peg Leg, you're

1350
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 1: a bitch of a mother that the day I go

1351
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: into court and take a stand will be a sorry

1352
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 1: one for her. It's weird. The only time he sounds

1353
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 1: like a normal guy is where he's being really angry

1354
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: at his ex wife, Like he reaches clarity, because I'm

1355
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: sure it's like a clear, like solid thing on this

1356
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:44,600
Speaker 1: earth that he can be mad at and then like

1357
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: everything else will just spiral in evantasy. But he's got

1358
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 1: this like anchor point of being pissed at his wife.

1359
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: So there are also a bunch of stories from his kids,

1360
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 1: who had all just sort of chalked up his weirdness

1361
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,799
Speaker 1: to daddy weird. Uh. In court, Fish express deep concern

1362
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 1: for his children and point asked a reporter to send

1363
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 1: them Christmas baskets. That's sweet. Yeah. He claimed he regretted

1364
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,959
Speaker 1: the murder of Grace Bud as soon as he committed it. Um.

1365
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,040
Speaker 1: Depending on the day of the trial, he would veer

1366
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 1: from asserting he was ready to die for his crimes

1367
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: to trying to get a lesser sentence. So I didn't.

1368
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 1: It was not totally consistent. Yeah. Fish was a very

1369
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,600
Speaker 1: religious guy. He had a lot of the Bible memorized,

1370
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 1: and his favorite Bible passage was Isaiah, I'm gonna read it.

1371
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 1: And you try to figure out why he might have

1372
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 1: liked it. But rab Shaka and apologies to listeners named

1373
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 1: rab Shackath if I pronounced that wrong. Uh. But rab

1374
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: Shakath said, hath not my master sent me to thy

1375
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 1: master and to the to speak these words? Hath he

1376
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall,

1377
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 1: that they may eat their own dung and drink their

1378
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 1: own piss with you? Do you think it's that he's

1379
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 1: a big fan of rab Shack. Yeah, that's why you like.

1380
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 1: When he was in jail one Sunday during a mass

1381
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 1: for prisoners, a guard heard grunting coming from his son

1382
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:01,600
Speaker 1: and walk over to look. He saw Fish with his

1383
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,599
Speaker 1: pants down and just enormous erection stroking his you know,

1384
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: to the sounds of the Lord's prayer. Uh. Yeah, yeah,

1385
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: he loved God super um. Frederick Wortham distinguished psychiatrist who

1386
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:23,639
Speaker 1: comics fans will no one hate for originating the comics code. Um.

1387
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: That guy was the guy who assessed Albert Fisher's mental

1388
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 1: state for the court and just tried to decide whether

1389
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: or not he was too crazy to be convicted. Um.

1390
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:33,600
Speaker 1: He wrote, quote, there was no known perversion that he

1391
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: did not practice and practice frequently, which yeah, in a

1392
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: way in accomplishment. Yeah, normally that's a positive. You haven't

1393
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: murdered people, right, Yeah, yeah yeah. Wortham linked all of

1394
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: Fish's weirdness back to a desire for pain. Uh. And

1395
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: Fish did tell him that quote, I always seem to

1396
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 1: enjoy everything that hurt. The desire to inflict pain that

1397
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 1: is all that is uppermost to Wortham. Fish explain the

1398
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: details of what he dide to Grace Bud. He claimed

1399
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: that he'd first right to drink her blood, but had

1400
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 1: not been able to handle it. Instead, he'd cut off

1401
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 1: four pounds of flesh from her buttocks, breast, belly, and

1402
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:13,520
Speaker 1: ears and nose. Not a lot of them. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1403
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 1: So he wrapped them up in newspaper and took them

1404
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: back to his homes. Uh. This excited him so much

1405
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 1: that he ejaculated while riding the train back home before

1406
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: he even got home. Yes, of course. Uh. Once he

1407
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 1: was back, he used Grace's flesh to make a stew

1408
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,639
Speaker 1: with carrots, onions, and strips of bacon. He said he'd

1409
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 1: eaten the stew for nine days. Oh no, that our

1410
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:35,680
Speaker 1: family recipe. Dear God. My caller was making soup when

1411
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,679
Speaker 1: I called, and he talks. When he talks about eating

1412
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:40,760
Speaker 1: the boy, he talks about the potatoes that he used

1413
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 1: in the like he makes like a biskue. Yeah, we

1414
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 1: do have a really good potatoes stup family recipe. I

1415
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 1: kind of want it. It's they're spam in it. It's spam. No,

1416
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 1: we all know that. I mean, taste buds. It's inherited

1417
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 1: to an extent. You want to come over for dinner?

1418
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 1: Kind of I can tell you that burning human flesh

1419
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:08,719
Speaker 1: smells almost exactly like cooking bacon. Okay, yeah, I would

1420
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 1: absolutely buy that. So, yeah, he ate her for nine

1421
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: days and uh pleasure himself and stuff. We all know

1422
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:19,639
Speaker 1: where this is going. We're all adults. Yeah, that's that's

1423
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: that's the kind of guy he is. Okay. So it

1424
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 1: was also in prison where Worth him and Detective King

1425
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: discovered Albert Fish's other favorite hobby. He loved shoving needles

1426
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 1: inside himself, did yeah, usually pushing them into his taint

1427
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 1: or somewhere else around his pelvis. The doctors actually gave

1428
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: him an X ray because he had chronic pain, and

1429
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 1: he came back just filled with needles. They found twenty

1430
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: nine needles inside of him. There's the X ray if

1431
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 1: you se, I think I have, but I love it

1432
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,760
Speaker 1: so much because he's just full of needles. He's just

1433
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 1: full of needles everywhere, industrious fellow. You gotta give him that.

1434
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: There's one right there, like in the lower butt cheeks

1435
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:56,880
Speaker 1: of dangling, Yeah, because a lot of times he would

1436
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 1: try to get him out, but a lot of times

1437
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: you just got him into teep. Which old Ian Malcolm

1438
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 1: quote from Jurassic park. He didn't stop to think of

1439
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: if you should Yeah, no, I thought he did. He

1440
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 1: decided yes. This was a reason decision from Albert Fish. Uh.

1441
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: They also found that Fish liked to soa cotton and alcohol,

1442
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: shove it up his ass and light his ass on fire. Um.

1443
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 1: He claimed to have tortured many children the same way. Ah,

1444
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: he did claim there were many children, a line full

1445
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:30,719
Speaker 1: of victims. Wortham said quote. He started his sexual career

1446
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 1: to so to say, at the age of seventeen at

1447
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 1: the time he became a painter. Now that professional painter

1448
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: this man has used as a convenience. He worked in

1449
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 1: many different institutions. He worked in y M c as,

1450
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,600
Speaker 1: He worked in homes for the tubercular. He worked in

1451
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: any kind of home where there were children, where they

1452
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 1: thought he could get children. In all these places, he

1453
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 1: made his headquarters the basement or the seller. And he

1454
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 1: had a habit of wearing painters overalls over his nude

1455
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:53,800
Speaker 1: body because he could he could get So either it's

1456
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: true in this kind siload of people, or he's lying,

1457
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: And it's totally credible because he definitely it was important

1458
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:01,639
Speaker 1: to him to be a good father. I think it's

1459
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: totally possible. He spent all of his time working and

1460
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: doing masturbating in weird ways, and sending letters to people.

1461
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: And it was when he was no longer working and

1462
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 1: his kids were supporting him that he really got the

1463
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 1: time to actually commit horrible crimes, right to enact his fantasies. Yeah,

1464
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: we'll never know. That's my read on it. And that

1465
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:24,720
Speaker 1: he was getting off on talking to the psychiatrist. Yeah.

1466
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: I think that was also part of it, because he

1467
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 1: told him lurid stories about seducing kids into basements with

1468
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 1: bribes of candy and money, uh, and doing terrible things

1469
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 1: to them. Uh. He did claim that most of his

1470
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 1: victims were colored because the authorities didn't care if black

1471
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:46,040
Speaker 1: kids went missing. Yeah. Um. I don't know if he

1472
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: actually did that, but I'm gonna bet it's easier to

1473
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 1: get away with yeah. Uh. And it's still today. Um. Yeah,

1474
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 1: So we'll never know how many of these victims are

1475
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 1: real or not worth him did uncover more religious influences.

1476
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 1: He found now that Fish was obsessed with the story

1477
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: of Abraham and Isaac, which he claims convinced him he

1478
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 1: needed to sacrifice a child. Uh. He figured that if

1479
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 1: God didn't want the boy to die. He'd send an

1480
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: angel down to stop Fish. So God's the real guy.

1481
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:19,760
Speaker 1: Come on, God, don't write a book like that and

1482
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:22,599
Speaker 1: just leave us to interpret it. We'll do things like this,

1483
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 1: send some angels down, like we're not you know, you

1484
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 1: made us. You know we're not smart enough to figure

1485
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,840
Speaker 1: the ship out. We're sticking needles in our asses. Come

1486
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 1: on on purpose, purpose um. In the end, Wortham concluded

1487
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 1: that Fish was in fact far too mentally ill for

1488
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: the state to execute. Ah. He is, in my opinion,

1489
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 1: a man not only incurable and unreformable, but also unpunishable,

1490
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: which is probably accurate. Probably. I don't think there's anything

1491
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 1: anyone could have done to be like, do you realize

1492
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 1: what you've I mean, at that point when you were

1493
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:02,799
Speaker 1: you talking to in the court didn't disagree with this guy. Nobody.

1494
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 1: None of the jurors thought that Fish was not criminally insane,

1495
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:08,640
Speaker 1: but they all wanted him killed anyway, just because they

1496
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 1: thought he needed to die. Yeah. I mean, and I

1497
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 1: don't really disagree with that either. Quality of life, if

1498
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: that is a factor. He's not lying, he's hurting himself, Yeah,

1499
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 1: he's it's Yeah. So he was taken to the electric chair.

1500
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 1: He was killed on January sixteenth, ninety six. He left

1501
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 1: behind a final statement to his lawyer, Jack Dempsey, who stated, quote,

1502
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: I will never show it to anyone. It was the

1503
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 1: most filthy string of obscenities that I have ever read,

1504
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: my dear lawyer. So that's all I've got on Albert Fish. Um,

1505
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:52,719
Speaker 1: is there anything else that you brought to the table

1506
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,519
Speaker 1: that we haven't gotten to yet? I really you covered

1507
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 1: a good amount of it. I think, yeah. Just the

1508
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: kind of the rest of the family and the Hamilton's

1509
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 1: Fish like not only trying to not talk about it,

1510
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 1: but like you race records of being destroy the evidence. Um,

1511
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,160
Speaker 1: I think yeah, it kind of speaks to the I

1512
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 1: guess shame of it all, which again is tied into

1513
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 1: mental health, which is tied into like sexuality, and just yeah,

1514
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:27,679
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we have at least a couple more

1515
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 1: nets to catch things like before and now in a

1516
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 1: society where maybe a guy who grows up like Albert

1517
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 1: Fish and wanting to have his ass paddle bloody and

1518
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 1: wanting to paddle other people and be lit on fire,

1519
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 1: Now that guy can just go to a dungeon dungeon

1520
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 1: light his own have his ass lit on fire, light

1521
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 1: other people asses on fire, and there can be consent

1522
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:52,440
Speaker 1: and it's all fine, right, and he doesn't have to

1523
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: and not to say that he didn't choose to also, Yeah,

1524
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: but he's not a monster because he shove needles up

1525
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:01,320
Speaker 1: his ass. That's respect stable way to pass the time,

1526
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 1: Like you want to, you do whatever you want to

1527
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:07,559
Speaker 1: your own Assis America. Yeah, I just don't eat children. Yea, yeah,

1528
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 1: maybe you're adults. Maybe be the rich, maybe maybe eat

1529
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 1: the rich. Doritos dorito. Yeah. The only thing tastier than

1530
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:24,479
Speaker 1: the flesh of the rich. Yeah, that's the only thing

1531
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 1: holding society together right now is that doritos are tastier

1532
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 1: than that and as and if they ever dip in quality,

1533
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:33,840
Speaker 1: which they never will, which they never are, amazing, but

1534
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 1: if they ever did, society would collapse because we would

1535
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,680
Speaker 1: start eating. We would, we will, we would go right

1536
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:41,000
Speaker 1: for the bangers. Really, we just owe a lot to doritos,

1537
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:43,599
Speaker 1: don't we We do, we do. And that's a positive

1538
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:48,719
Speaker 1: note to in this horrible, horrible episode about a terrible criminal. Maggie,

1539
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 1: you want to plug your plug, Dobles, Yes, yeah, you

1540
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 1: can find me. Maga may fish that's May also named

1541
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:01,480
Speaker 1: after my great great grandmother who is in the same line. Yeah,

1542
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 1: I bet she was really horrified when all this came out. Oh,

1543
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 1: I don't know if she ever knew, and thank god.

1544
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm just imagining members of your family like picking up

1545
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:13,760
Speaker 1: the news over in Michigan and like reading about the

1546
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: trial and going, oh, I'm gonna throw this newspaper in

1547
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 1: the trash. You don't let the kids see this color

1548
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 1: cousin in d C. I think we need to have

1549
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 1: some files burned. Uh yeah, So find me on Twitter.

1550
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: UM I have a podcast about friendship called my Top

1551
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 1: eight of the Small Beans Network UM and you can

1552
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 1: catch my videos at Breakdown Film and Society on my

1553
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. They're fantastic videos. Check them out. Check out

1554
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 1: Maggie's work. She's one of the most talented people I've

1555
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 1: ever worked with. UM. I'm Robert Evans and next week,

1556
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 1: next Tuesday, we'll be back as we are every week,

1557
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: with another story about someone terrible, so please tune in

1558
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: for that. It will probably be a dictator other than

1559
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 1: a mass murderer, but you know, one and the same, Yeah,

1560
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 1: one in the same, not as different as you might expect.

1561
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,559
Speaker 1: Uh yeah. You can find this podcast on Twitter at

1562
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:14,080
Speaker 1: at Bastard's Pod Instagram too. You can find us on

1563
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: the internet at behind the Bastard's dot com. Have a

1564
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 1: cool ranch Day and I love h