1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the crime round up, y'all. I'm gonna get 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: right to it. Nancy Grace, come on in here, honey. 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: Happy birthday. Till you did you think I was not 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: gonna say anything. 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: I love the singing more than say any You know 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: it's all about you, as it should be, ma'am. I 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: am just your praw. 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: Tell me what you did on your birthday? 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: Well, you know we're still celebrating. I get the whole month. 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 2: What are y'all doing? 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: Well? We have had dinners, We've had trips. I have 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: one more trip. 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: What trip what? Well? 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can't tell on hair, but 15 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: walk I did a little uh look, a little overnight thing. 16 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: And then the kids have a surprise adventure this weekend. 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: I don't know the destination they've picked it. 18 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: Okay, this is so interesting because I never I have 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: a birthday. I don't want anything now I don't want 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: there's no I don't care about clothes. I certainly do 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: not care about jewelry. I drive a beat up minivan. 22 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: Don't care. But I always asked for a quote an experience. 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: Two years ago we went what do you say? It's 24 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 2: not We typically camp at a tent, a RV. What 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: are the a yurt? We went? We went in a 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: yurt and I had a great time. But that's what 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: I like to do. I like to go hiking or 28 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: go camping or something like that. So I'm with you. 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: I don't need another sweater or a ring or ear 30 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: rings I'm not gonna wear. I just know I want 31 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: to be with the twins, and I guess David, and 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: that's what I like for my birthday me too. 33 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: I just want more time of them. That's it. Same, Okay, 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: next Cober Coburger. 35 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: The ballaclava, or as some people like to say, the bacleavah. 36 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: I've been waiting for somebody to say bahklablah and they did. 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: It made me really happy. And I said, well, okay, 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 2: regarding that bahklava, do do you think it a walnuts 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: or pistachios on it? And they're like, what, it's okay, 40 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: it's a balaclava, and idiot Coburger ordered one. F y. 41 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: I all, you criminal mastermids, don't order your crime doings 42 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: on Amazon or leave a credit card trail you'd think 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: right anyway, So online we do a whole program on 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: the mounting evidence, including the witness. And this is the timing. 45 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: I didn't really get to go into it in depth 46 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 2: on air the other night chery when you were with me, 47 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: because we have, you know, one hour, and if you 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: take out breaks, that leaves just for like forty five 49 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: forty eight minutes, and there's so much to cover, so 50 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: I can't covered in depth. But if I were trying 51 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: the case, I would take the balla clava and you 52 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: a whole poster, a whole discussion of what it proves. 53 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: You know, very often eyewitnesses are attacked, which of course 54 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: everyone has a right to cross examine a witness. In fact, 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: eyewitness across exams are so predictable they are even governed 56 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: by black and white letter of the law. What do 57 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: I mean by that, Well, let's just say you think 58 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: it would just be aough questioning, but it is so predictable, 59 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: so sop that the law lays out in the criminal Code, 60 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 2: the law of how to go about impeaching or testing 61 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: an eyewitness. What was your vantage point? Did you have 62 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: a clear shot a view of what you're describing? What 63 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: is your vision? Do your glasses were you wearing them 64 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: that night? What were the light and conditions were you 65 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: distracted in any way. There's a whole line of questioning 66 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: that I now know my heart from having done it 67 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: so many times. But one thing about the eyewitness, the 68 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: survivor that lived in the eleven twenty two king wrote 69 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 2: address where four people were murdered in their beds, two 70 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: of them survived. She gave that description of the perp 71 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: wearing a balla clava immediately after the incident. Her eyewitness's 72 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: account was fresh. It had not been diluted, It had 73 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: not been corrupted by any outside influence. She hadn't seen 74 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: anything on TV. No one had spoken to her, and 75 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: she drew the balla clava, the same balla claw, There 76 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: many types, the same bula claw, the same color, the 77 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 2: same everything that Coburger purchased. That is very strong eyewitness testimony. 78 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: Oh that's so solid. 79 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: Nothing was distracting her. The only thing they could do 80 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: with that if they want to attack, which of course 81 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 2: they will, is that it was dark. It was dark 82 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 2: when she saw it, but she was very close to him, 83 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: I would say, within fifteen feet of him. It was 84 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: a miraculated to kill her. So and I may find 85 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: out more about the lighting conditions. I mean, was he 86 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: standing in a window where there was outside light pouring in. 87 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: There were security lights in that parking lot, as I recall. Anyway, 88 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: there's a whole lot of factors. I don't know yet 89 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: where he was standing. Was there a night light on? 90 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: Was there a light on in the whole way? I 91 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 2: don't know any of that, but we'll find out, of course, 92 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: when that eyewitness testimony is attacked. But leading up online 93 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: and others, and it was brought up, and it's a 94 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 2: burdening point. A lot of people have bollaclavas. True, fine, 95 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: I don't but fine, fine, granted, But who has the 96 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 2: ballaklama exactly like that? Guys? Is like a ski mask 97 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: kind of you know, where your nose and your mouth 98 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: are covered up and put it over your heads that 99 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: the evil people always wear it in movies. That is 100 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. But add that, Sheryl, add that too. 101 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: Who has the ballaclaw just like that one? And also 102 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: has the Dickies uniform outfit and also drops of white 103 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: a launcher spotted at the crime scene. 104 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 3: I mean it goes on and on and also has 105 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 3: the same exact k burn knife and the same exact 106 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 3: sheath and then goes looking at needing a replace threat 107 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 3: knife and. 108 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: Sheet after the murders. I mean, this guy and wrote 109 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: a twelve page essay on how to process a crime scene. 110 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: You know, you know, let's reverse engineering that how to 111 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: commit a crime without the evidence be found a processed. So, 112 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: I mean it just is so. And who has bushy eyebrows? 113 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: That all adds up and the ball of Clova is 114 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 2: just one part of this equation, this very complicated equation. 115 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple of things law enforcement, and I 116 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: want rookies to listen to what I'm telling you. When 117 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: Dylan gave the testimony, she's giving you the description, they 118 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: went one step further and send can you draw it? 119 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: And she did so there's no question they did not 120 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: feed that to her. They didn't show her a bunch 121 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: of masks. She drew what she saw. Take that next step. 122 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: Don't just take the verbal testimony for drawing that is 123 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: a money tree. I'm just giving the advice verbally out loud, 124 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: so that they go that extra step, because that, to me, 125 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: would be the poster that you would put up at trial. 126 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: This is what she drew still in shop exactly, and 127 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: that led them to Dix because if it weren't for that, 128 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: maybe they wouldn't have gone to the sporting goods stores 129 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: around because they couldn't find that on Amazon, but they 130 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: found where he purchased it at Dick's Sporting Goods. 131 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: What I'm trying to figure out is what is the 132 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: most vital piece of evidence because I like to start 133 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: with a bang. I don't start with the weakest evidence 134 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 2: and build up. I start with a bang, and then 135 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: I like to finish with a bang. That's important when 136 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: you try a case, you start with something very powerful 137 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 2: and you end with something very powerful. Why because this 138 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: last thing the jury's going to have on their mind 139 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: before they go out to deliver it, other than your 140 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: closing statements. And that is why there's the quirk in 141 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: Georgia law and in many jurisdictions, and that quirk is 142 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: that the state has the burden. Of course, the defense 143 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: has nothing to prove, right, So the state has the 144 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: first opening statement and the state can have the final 145 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: closing argument. Now, the state can split that up and 146 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 2: do a first closing argument. Then the defense goes and 147 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: then the state has a final closing argument like a sandwich. 148 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: Under Georgia law, if the defendant hoo's up nothing but 149 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: the defendant's own testimony or nothing at all. The state 150 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 2: loses the final closing argument and the defense gets it, 151 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: and it's like one of those weird board game rules 152 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: that are letting one person knows and they whip it 153 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: out the end and be you right. I remember that 154 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: happened to me, well the first time that happened to me, 155 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: and I did a backflip, and then I found a 156 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 2: way around at Cheryl. And the way around it is this. 157 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: If the defense even brings in, say a document, and 158 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 2: one of my witnesses had been crossed a cross examination 159 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: with a document, I think it was the witness's conviction 160 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: on something, but they had to bring in I wouldn't 161 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 2: let the defense attorney show them the document. I mean 162 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: show it to the jury. You could show it to 163 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: the witness, but not to the jury unless it's been 164 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 2: admitted into evidence. So they wanted to show the jury 165 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 2: that my witness's indictment they're guilty plea. I'm like, I 166 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 2: after introduced that into evidence before you show it to 167 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 2: the jury. So they introduced it into evidence, not realizing 168 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: that that would make them lose their final closing argument. 169 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: He he now point point. You have to finish strong 170 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: because just what if you lose the final closing argument 171 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: or what if things go sideways in closings. You gotta 172 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: finish it strong so the jury will have that in 173 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 2: their minds, your best evidence, right, and you got to 174 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: start strong because you don't want them to go home 175 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: their very first night of evidence and go, oh that 176 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: was awful. Whye my ear, there's no case. You gotta 177 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: hit them hard at the gate case Cheryl. So that said, 178 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,479 Speaker 2: back to the balla club. Okay, I digressed. 179 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: What would you start with the DNA? 180 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 2: Oh God, if there's so many different ways to go, 181 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 2: I would bring that up first in my opening statement, 182 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: But I don't think that I would start there because 183 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 2: DNA will get very confusing and will be subjected to 184 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 2: great cross examination attack as DNA always is. It's not 185 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: peculiar to this DNA, although you know, this kind of 186 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 2: thing that would keep me up at night is trying 187 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 2: to strategize how to stack my witnesses, although after the 188 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 2: first day they probably would The defense probably wouldn't even 189 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: get to cross examination of the DNA, so the jury 190 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: would go home thinking what one in eight Octilian likelihood 191 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 2: it's not him, it's totally to him. So that might 192 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: I'd have to time it out to figure out would 193 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 2: they make it to cross If they wouldn't make it 194 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: to cross exam, I might start with the DNA. What 195 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: I'd probably start with is a nine on one call 196 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 2: and the cops going to the scene start chronologically. Then 197 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 2: I would move probably. I don't want it to be 198 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 2: all theory. I might move might move from there to 199 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: the victim's family members. I don't want these four victims 200 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 2: to just be a name on an indictment. I want 201 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 2: the jury to know who they were. But I probably 202 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 2: go chronologically. Now here's a problem with chronologic when we 203 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 2: bring in the two eye witnesses, well, the two witnesses, 204 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: the survivors, They're going to be subjected to intense cross examination. 205 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: But that's gonna happen one way or the other. I'm 206 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: just saying, what am I bringing on first? What's gonna 207 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: get me through the first day of testimony to make 208 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: the biggest impact on a jury, And you really have 209 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: to think long and hard. You got to think about 210 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: what officer first arrived. You have to play of course, 211 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: the nine one calls, and they are legal hurdles to 212 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: get in a nine to one one call. Say, you 213 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: better make sure you know how to do it so 214 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 2: you're not stopped with objection after objection. You have to 215 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: go look at the law book to figure it out 216 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: for Beat's sake. No, it's got to be smooth and seamless. 217 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: What I'm saying is, don't let your projector break down 218 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: in front of the jury. Have yourself together. You got 219 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: one shot, don't screw it up, for Pete's sake. 220 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: And you got twelve people sitting over they're waiting for it. Yes, 221 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: there was so many days and nights you and I 222 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: sat in your office and you would lay out in 223 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: the playbook. And when I think of this case, I 224 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: remember you and I were at a function. 225 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: I all is get nervous when you start a sentence. 226 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: I remember when you and us. 227 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: And we were almost bum rushed by these folks saying, 228 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: don't y'all think he's a criminal mastermind, don't you think 229 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: he's murdered you know, hundreds of times before? And I 230 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: remember just laughing, go with Look, he made so many 231 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: mistakes that if he had murdered before, he would have 232 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: been caught before. I mean, we had an eight year 233 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: old drug dealer in Atlanta that knew not to use 234 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: his own car. You don't use your own debit cards, 235 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: you don't use your own Amazon account. You certainly don't 236 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: buy replacement when you realize, oh lord, the police might 237 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: show up and need to produce this k bar with 238 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: the sheets. I better get another one, miffleball. 239 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: Oh you know what we were talking about on crime stories. 240 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: He gave me a scary flashback to call ma Laury Value. 241 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 2: Oh my stars, is okay. I'm not laughing at the crime. 242 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: I'm laughing because the crime is so setting it's hard 243 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 2: for me to think about it. Pull Montmaury Valo was 244 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: part of murdering her son JJ and her daughter Tyley 245 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: and others and others including Timmy daybll. So she meets 246 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: the prophet and even though I'm all by myself, am 247 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: using quivities in there, the prophet, Chad day Belt is 248 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: one big wacky doodle. He's married to Timmy, and of 249 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: course they fall in love and start getting on at 250 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: a local motel or where wherever anyway, So to put 251 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: a good face on it, they must get married, of course. 252 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: But oops, there's the wife, and there's a duty to 253 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 2: her children. So JJ had some learning issues and that 254 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: was I guess too much of a burden for her. 255 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: So he had to go. Tylie was starting to talk back. 256 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: She's sixteen. She had to go because it was impinging 257 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: on her sex affair with quote the prophet quote anyway, 258 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: planning her wedding before Tammy day Bell, the wife is dead, 259 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: she goes on her dead husband's credit card and orders 260 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: her wedding dress and her wedding ring and the groom 261 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: the profit quote E quote the prophet groom's outfit for 262 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: a beach b E A C H and where's it? 263 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: And it's photographed, and the same things she ordered on 264 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: Amazon before Timmy day Bell was dead, who then dies 265 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 2: in her sleep. Idiot idiots, you're so happy. 266 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm so happy. We thought what I talked about. I 267 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: thought about Casey Anthony's mom. Remember when she tried to 268 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: say I was looking up garden and supplies. Well, there's 269 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: no way they're going to be able to call Coburgers, 270 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: sister or mama and say, hey, you know y'all share 271 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: an Amazon accaount? Did you buy a K bar? 272 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: I know, hey, you know what. I always go easy 273 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 2: on George and Cindy, And I'll tell you why. A 274 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 2: lot of people find a lot of things about them 275 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 2: to criticize. But you know what, if your whole life 276 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 2: was exposed, the worst thing you ever did or said 277 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: was made public, I don't even want to think about that. 278 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: They were photographed the video at the worst possible moment 279 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 2: in their life. I remember there was a video of 280 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: George coming out on the front yard yelling at the media, 281 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: eye and angry or get off my yard. Did you 282 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 2: blame him at that point? 283 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 3: You know what? 284 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: This at the end of their rope. Kelly was like 285 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: their own child and was missing and taught mom their 286 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 2: daughter was under suspicion, and there was just a constant 287 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: barrage of and I really I don't even show that 288 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: clip ever because it's so unfair. It's such a raw, 289 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 2: horrible time in their lives for that to be out there. 290 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: But a lot of people attack them. I like them. 291 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: I like them just as they are. They were taking 292 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: care of Kelly, their granddaughter, paying for everything, giving her 293 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 2: all her love, all her inovation. They were the ones 294 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: trying to find her. 295 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: Yep. 296 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, I do think and I've said it before, 297 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: and no matter how much I like them. I do 298 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 2: believe Cindy committed persury on the stand trying to take 299 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 2: the fall for her daughter when she said those damning 300 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: computer searches were not how to make homemade chloroform, which 301 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 2: top Mom searched. It was her looking for chlorophyll regarding 302 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 2: bamboo growing up in their backyard, which doesn't even make 303 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 2: any sense, but whatever, and that it was spelled correct, 304 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 2: from chloroform to chlorophyll. I typed it into the computer 305 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 2: several times and nothing spell takes me right. 306 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. His family's not going 307 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: to be able to save him either. Those searches, and 308 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: there's more searches we don't know about. And that timeline 309 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: it got filled in a little bit better here with 310 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: the Dick Sporting goods and now the secondary purchase of 311 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 1: the you know, the new you know phil In knife, 312 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: because you know, he knows he can't produce it. He 313 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: knows he can't produce the mask, so he I'm sure 314 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: freaked out thinking, hey, this was not part of the plan. 315 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: I made a huge mistake, which again not a mastermind. 316 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, criminal master mom. And another part of it, 317 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: and I was speaking to you. I guess it is 318 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: doctor Bethony Marshall about this. It's hard to nail her 319 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 2: down because somehow she always years off in the set 320 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: up master system. I don't know how she does it, 321 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 2: but she does. He does. I love her so much. 322 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 2: She's always perfect. 323 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, always perfect? 324 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 3: Ye? 325 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 2: Now okay, where were we? Ryl, I'm sorry. I was 326 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 2: looking at a post about Lucy. I posted a picture 327 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: of her when she was an angel. She played an 328 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: angel in the church Christmas program when she's a little girl. 329 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: And then the other day it just broke my heart. 330 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: I drove her to an interview for an internship and 331 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 2: she walked off, and she hates when I take her picture, 332 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: but I had the camera poised of I said, Lucy, 333 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: if she turned around, I took a picture of her, 334 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: and of course posted it, much to her chagrin. Someone 335 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: actually said, if she wring that skirt to an interview, 336 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 2: if I could just go through the screen and grab 337 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: that person, buy the throat anyway, I can't, but that said, I. 338 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: Got a buddy in here. I saw that picture. She 339 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: just turned kind of over her shoulder. That was a 340 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: beautiful picture. And of those children of yours, Oh my gosh, 341 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: they have just exceeded anything. I'm sure you ever even 342 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: prayed for beyond anything. I just wanted them to be alive, 343 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: because you know, Lucy almost died. Oh yeah, and she 344 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: weighed two pounds when she was born, two pounds, and 345 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: I was so messed up. I couldn't even lift my 346 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: head up off the bed. 347 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: And now you remember. And I would just pray at 348 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: night for Lucy to live and for me to live 349 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 2: so I could make her live. Of course, John was 350 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 2: born at almost six pounds. He was just fat and happy. 351 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 2: He was just oh, he was just perfect. But yeah, 352 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 2: and I look at his picture now. I sat in 353 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 2: that parking lot and I was afraid that people interviewing 354 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 2: her might look out the wind and see me cry. 355 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: So I did hold it together. Yes, Oh my goodness, 356 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 2: you're one to talk with. Oh your children are so attractive. 357 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: They're so pretty, both of them. 358 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: That's DNA baby. 359 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: Okay, back to Coburger. I could talk about the children forever. Okay, 360 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: back to Coburg. Where were we? 361 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: I have a question for you as a prosecutor. 362 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 2: Ready. 363 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: I know this is something that I think is huge, 364 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: But I know a lot of people don't They just 365 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: dismiss it. But I always think that it is wicked 366 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: good when they defendant has zero character witnesses. Not one 367 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: person is going to come up and say, hey, I 368 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: don't believe there's any way this person could have done this. 369 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: They're a good person, they're you know, devoted, they're devout 370 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: there whatever he's got nobody. 371 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: You know, not one person's coming forward to go he 372 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 2: would never do this. And you know what struck me? 373 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 2: Do you recall just recently and we covered the Sadiksha 374 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 2: case where this beautiful young university pit student went missing 375 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: in the dr and the guy, the high school wrestler 376 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 2: that she was with on the beach came under suspicion. 377 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 2: All these people sort of flooding us with he would 378 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: never do this, he would never He's a boy scout. 379 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: I'm like a boy scout. And I'm not saying boy 380 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: scouts don't commit crimes, but I'm like, that really hit me. 381 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: All these people, neighbors, relatives, people that have worked with 382 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 2: a scout troop all saying he would never do this, 383 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: and you're bringing up the exact polar opposite, And you're right, 384 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: of course, the saint can't comment on that at trail. 385 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: But that said, it's still true. Nobody's coming forward to 386 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: saying he would never They're all going, yep, I told 387 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,959 Speaker 2: him he was crazy. All of you was a crazy loader. 388 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: That's right. 389 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 2: Nobody has noticed it. You're the first person to notice that. 390 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: Well, you know, you think when you're doing a master's 391 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: and you spend all this intimate time with professors and 392 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: other students, and then in the PhD program where you're 393 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: not just you know, in with your mentor, but now 394 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: you're also at TA you've got students. He doesn't have 395 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: one person saying he's the greatest person. He was somebody 396 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: that I looked to. He was somebody that mentored me. Zero. 397 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 2: So what do you think how can that be brought in? 398 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: I don't think there's a constitutional way to bring it in. 399 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: It's much of a comment on defendance bad character. Yeah, 400 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 2: and that would be reversible as tempting as it is 401 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: not worth to get a case reversed on something so small. 402 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: I don't know if it would rise to a reversible error, 403 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: but if you add it into another small error and 404 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: another small error, it could add up, especially in a 405 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: death penalty case. 406 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: And maybe not to bring it in, but maybe some way, 407 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: Well there is one way. 408 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: There is one way. If the defense brings in good reputation, 409 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 2: then the state is allowed. That opens the door to bad. 410 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: Well there you go. Yeah, you can't bring it up 411 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: as a state, but if they bring up the antithesis, 412 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: you can then follow up with a rage one day 413 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 2: a response. 414 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: Well, you know you and I always patterns, patterns, patterns, patterns. 415 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: You know what did he do on a daily basis? 416 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: Where did he go? 417 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 2: Well, he's so right, Cheryl, go ahead, I want to 418 00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: hear your analysis. 419 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing about him. I think he spent 420 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: a hund a time alone. And the reason he spent 421 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: time alone is because he was stalking. He was a 422 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: peeping tom. The one traffic ticket that he got in 423 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: August is the one that has stuck with me because 424 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: it was for not wearing a seat belt and it 425 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: was like eleven fortieth night. And I'm a person like 426 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: you know, you've done his ton of stuff with the 427 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: kids here recently, where they're dropping off blankets and they're 428 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: doing different things. When you're in and out of the car, 429 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: you don't re engage the seatbelt. I believe that he 430 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: was stalking that night. He was a peeping tom that 431 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: night and he was in and out of his car, 432 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: and that's why he just did not re engage the seatbelt. 433 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: And when you've got maybe even a car alerting you that, hey, 434 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: the seat belt, you know is be been. I think 435 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: he was so just in his whole head fantasizing about 436 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: what he just want, you know, watched what he was doing. 437 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: That's when they make those mistakes. And we know Ted Bundy, 438 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: the son of Sam. You know, they all got traffic tickets. 439 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: It's not unusual because they're focused about something in their 440 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: mind bigger than driving a car. 441 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good point, especially just thinking back 442 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 2: on all the cases for parking tickets or traffic infractions 443 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 2: have resulted in finding a very serious felon, even a 444 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: killer like McVeigh. That's a really good one. 445 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: Empathy McVeigh one hundred percent. Burklewitz, they all have traffic 446 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: tickets because think about what you're concentrating on, you know, 447 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: and for them, I mean at stop sign, a traffic light, 448 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. They're not focused on that at all. 449 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 2: So where do you think it's going to end with 450 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: a conviction? Do you think it's really going forward this 451 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 2: summer because they're laying the foundation not to go forward, 452 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 2: whining about all that this is double edged where they've won. Oh, 453 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 2: the state's given us too much evidence. But if the 454 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: state doesn't hand over all those thousands of pages of 455 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 2: documents that go, hey, you hid something. 456 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: Listen, it's that chess game. This is I mean, I 457 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: call it a stunt. Either you didn't give us everything, 458 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: or now you're giving us too much. They in the 459 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: beginning kept saying, well, he's got to be able to 460 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: wear a suit, and he was only out looking at stars. Well, 461 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: now that the drawing has come out about the mask 462 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: and this has come out about Dick's sporting guns, I 463 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: think people are like, come on now. I mean, y'all 464 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: been throwing everything y'all could against the wall. Ain't nothing 465 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: sticking none of it. Nobody's buying it. His own family 466 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: has not come forward and said this was a mistake. 467 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: You don't know what you're talking about. I think a 468 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: lot of people in his life just like you said, like, 469 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 1: we knew it was crazy, but you came hide your 470 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: own car. You can't hide your own eyebrows, you can't 471 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: hide your own DNA. You can't hide your own height. 472 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: Dylan Mortenson saw him within feet. Those eyebrows, She'll never 473 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: forget them. And the biggest mistake he made was not 474 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: leaving his DNA on that sheaf, was not using his 475 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: own car, was not using his own debit card, but 476 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: leaving that witness alive. 477 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 2: Can we go back to who were going to put 478 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: up first? For me? 479 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: The first witness would be the young man that came 480 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: over and found them. 481 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: So you would not start with a number one call No. 482 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: I would work backwards. I would start with him what 483 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: he saw, because he's the one that turned and said 484 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: call now one one. On the now one one call, 485 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: the female roommate is saying, my roommate can't wake up. 486 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: She's not waking up. He saw, he saw the blood, 487 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: he knew, and he was trying to protect them from that. 488 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: I would start with him so that when they heard 489 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: the no when one call, they would know this is 490 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: even worse than this poor child knows. 491 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: That is a really good point, Cheryl. I was already 492 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: to disagree with you, but I like that idea. I 493 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: still was start with the other one. But that's it. 494 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, I don't know. 495 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 2: Maybe you're right, Hm, I gotta think this too. As 496 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: if we're gonna be able to call the first witnesses, 497 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: stay's probably already got it all laid out in their minds. Okay, Cheryl. 498 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: As much as I would like to continue hypothesizing with 499 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 2: you about what we would do who would be our 500 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: first witness if we were prosecuting the case, I have 501 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: to go to work. 502 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: I appreciate you happy birthday. 503 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 2: I'm sure that the incriminating photos will be coming in 504 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 2: were coming on line. 505 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: Soon from your phone? All right? Love you, hunting by