1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, the 2 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: family of a federal judge has been ambust shot, her 3 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: only son shot dead in the family home. Why I'm 4 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 5 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: with us. First of all, take a listen to our 6 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: friends NBC for York. It's believes Salis's husband, well known 7 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney Mark Andrell, was shot multiple times after 8 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: answering the door late Sunday. The couple's twenty year old 9 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: son was then shot moments later by a suspect, the 10 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: source confirms, dressed as a delivery truck driver. I never 11 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: even would have thought I go around here with my friends. 12 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: Every day we walk around here. I see Daniel out 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: with his dad baseball, playing with their basketball who all 14 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: the time. I wouldn't even imagine. Salis has served in 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: her role for the last nine years. She's the first 16 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: Hispanic woman to sit on the federal bench in New Jersey. 17 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: She made headlines after presiding over recent high profile cases 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: like the fraud trial of Real Housewife star Teresa Judy Jay. 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: I find it very difficult to believe that Teresa Juda Chay, 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: the Real Housewife, had anything at all to do with this. 21 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: The other high profile cases that the judge has presided 22 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: over include cases about gangs like the Crips and the 23 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: Bloods cartel members, even recently being signed a case related 24 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: to the billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. She just got that 25 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: case on Thursday, hasn't really even had a chance to 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: make rulings on it, good or bad? With me an 27 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: all star panel, including Mark Iglarsh, renown criminal defense attorney, 28 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: joining me out of Florida. He has a website, Speak 29 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: Tomorrow dot com and as author of a brand new book, 30 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: be Happy by Choice, Happiness Guaranteed or your money Back 31 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: on Amazon. Doctor Angela Arnold Psychiatrists, joining us out of 32 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction. Jeff Cortesi, former FBI Special Agent the 33 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: FBI now on the case. New guests joining us, Please 34 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: welcome Jennifer Schenn forensic pathologists, former director of the San 35 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: Diego Police Department Crime Lab. That's not an easy job, 36 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: and you can find her at jen Schenn forensics dot com. 37 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: But straight out now to Nicole Parton Crime Online dot 38 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, Nicole, what do we know? I mean, 39 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: it's very rare, statistically that a case goes down like 40 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: this in broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon and very 41 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: upscale neighborhood, low crime area, at someone's home. What more 42 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: you tell me, Nicole Parton. What we know, Nancy is 43 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: that sometime around five o'clock in this upscale community, the 44 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: doorbell rang and apparently the gunman was dressed as a 45 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: FedEx delivery driver rang the bell. The judge's son and 46 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: husband both come to the door and they're greeted with 47 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: a bombardment of gunfire. Son David twenty, is shot and killed. 48 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: Her husband bombarded multiple gunshot wounds. We know that he 49 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: is now fighting for his life in critical condition. The 50 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: judge was unharmed. Judge Solace was in the basement at 51 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: the time, but both of her family members gunned down 52 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: and what's being called an assassination attempt gone wrong. Jeff Cortesi, 53 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: former FBI special Agent. The FBI have been brought in 54 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: on the case. She is a federal judge. Of course, 55 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: the local police are on it too. We know that 56 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: the neighborhood at this moment is still cordoned off. Police 57 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: are going door to door asking people or any eyewitness 58 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: testimony anything that they can reveal as to that vehicle 59 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: or the shooter again dressed as a fed Ex delivery person. 60 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: Jeff Cortes. First of all, it is not uncommon for 61 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: a judge or a prosecutor to get death threats. I've 62 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: had them. I've had my door kicked in, my mailbox, 63 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: ruined my car, tire slashed, the windows of my car 64 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: broken so many times. I knew the number for doctor 65 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: Glass by heart during trials, and I'd have my car 66 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: parked in the courthouse parking lot. So that's not unusual. 67 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: But for one of those threats to actually be carried 68 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: out is unusual. Jeff Cortesi, what do you think? Yeah, 69 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: I know, I fully agree, Nancy. The death threats are 70 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: very common. Assassination attaps not so much, you know, showing 71 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: up in a fed uniform. Obviously you want to be 72 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: able to get close to the home without suspicion. You 73 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: know this, This certainly looks like something organized, well planned out. 74 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: You know, the canvassing of the neighborhood. There'll be talking 75 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: to the neighbors, asking Friday witness testimony, CCTV information, anything 76 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: they can do to identify vehicles, motor transportation, direction of travel, etc. 77 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: Let's talk about a case we are all familiar with. 78 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 1: Mike Eigilars, criminal defense attorney out of Florida and author, 79 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: speak to Mark dot com. Mark, I know that you 80 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: and I both covered and carefully watched the Junifer Duelo's case, 81 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: the missing Connecticut mom of five. We all know she's dead. 82 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: Photus Duelos, the husband and his lover. Now, of course 83 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: the targets. Did you see the surveillance in that case, 84 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: Because cops put together surveillance leaving the victim's home through 85 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: the neighborhood, getting neighbors, burglar cams, front door security surveillance, 86 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: stop signs, all the way through to where the husband 87 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: had the vehicle cleaned at a car wash, and then 88 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 1: actually going to a location where they thought they thought 89 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: for a minute the body was but the mom's car 90 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: was found abandoned. They also threw use of security cameras 91 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: being on red lights at stores, in people's homes, outside 92 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: their homes. Even Mark R. Glash Eyeglash using video surveillance 93 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: from school buses when the doors would open, and public 94 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: transportation buses, you could see Dulos's car driving by. That 95 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: is very high tech. They could be doing that right 96 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: now in this case, I have that expectation. We're not 97 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: the seventies anymore. Now, there's an expectation that if something 98 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: is done in broad daylight like is that there must 99 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: be plenty of video that can show who it was, 100 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: who did it. I don't know if that's realistic. I 101 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: don't know what steps he took to conceal his identity 102 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: once he committed the act. I do want to go 103 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: back to one other point. Everyone seemed so far to 104 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: suggest this was like an assassination attempt. My thought wasn't 105 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: right away that they tried to kill a judge. My 106 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: thought right away was, Okay, who's this twenty year old son? 107 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: Who's the husband? You know? I think that this equally 108 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: could have been targeted towards them as well as a judge. 109 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that this was about killing a judge, 110 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: not just yet. You know what, Mark Iglarsh, That's exactly 111 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: what I said. First thing, Because the husband's the one 112 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: in the ICU right now, the sun is the one 113 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: that shot in the heart. We know the husband apparently 114 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: took multiple gun shots. There's been a lot of confusion 115 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: about who answered the door. Most outlets are saying that 116 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: the husband answered the door, and that the sun came 117 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: in right behind him upon hearing a commotion. Other reports 118 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: say the son answered the door. But long story short, 119 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: I believe we can all agree to cole Parton that 120 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: the husband took more than one gunshot wound. Correct. That's correct. 121 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: He received a multiple gunshot wound, the sun one or 122 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: more shots. We are being told that he was dead 123 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: upon arrival. Instantly he passed away. He was shot through 124 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: the heart, according to the local mayor Crime Stories. With 125 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace joining me now forensic pithologists former director of 126 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: the San Diego Police Department Crime Lab, Jennifer Schen For 127 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, we are talking about 128 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: a federal judge whose family was gunned down in their 129 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: home of Scale neighborhood Low Crime, dressed as a FedEx 130 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: delivery person. Was it a hit on the judge? If not? 131 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: If so, why didn't they shoot the judge? Why the 132 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: defense attorney husband, Why the sun? Their only child a 133 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: student at Catholic University just twenty years old. Jennifer Schen, 134 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: I got a lot of ideas running through my head 135 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: about what I think they should be doing right now, 136 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: such as we know the delivery person had to ring 137 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: the doorbell or knock on the door. I'd be all 138 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: over that door, railings, posts, columns, glass on the door, 139 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: you name it. If there's a gate leading into the home, 140 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: the gate, if the perp walked by the car, the 141 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: family car, and touched it, anything he could have touched, 142 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: I put out an APB. Is it a white mail, blackmail, 143 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: haspanic mail? Everything we know which may not be a lot. 144 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: The husband's still an ICU. Jennifer, you can't really give 145 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: a description, but certainly that bullet needs to be sent 146 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: through the data bank for bullets to determine if it's 147 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: been used and another occasion, possibly get the gun, long shot, 148 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: trace the car, follow the car through video surveillance to 149 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: try to find it. It's probably destroyed by now, So 150 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: help me out. Jennifer Schen, you're the pathologist, you're the 151 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: forensic specialist. What do you think? Well, I agree with you. 152 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: That was an excellent rundown of the evidence that we 153 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: would look for. There could be quite a bit of 154 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: evidence that would help link someone to this crime. It's 155 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: hard to stay and you covered many of those things 156 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: that we would certainly be looking for. Fingerprints on those 157 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: surfaces they mentioned, and we'd be looking for a touch DNA. 158 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: I want to concentrate for a secondmount of cartridge cases. 159 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: So it depends on what type of weaponness was that 160 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: there was. There was there are several shots, they're likely 161 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: firearms evidence at that scene. And I don't think that's 162 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: super interesting about forensics is over the last five or 163 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: six years, it becomes we have advanced so much that 164 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: you can find DNA on almost anything, and you can 165 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: find DNA on fired cartridge cases, which seems like you 166 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: couldn't that we can do it. And so what we 167 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: would do then it's close those cartridge cases and we 168 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: would analyze into DNA because if there is being a present, 169 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: you may be able to link that to someone if 170 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: they convict they convicted the previous creme of some sort 171 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: more put into the DNA database. In addition to that, 172 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: we would you're right, we would take those cartridge cases 173 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: or the trajector the bullets, the missiles, and we would 174 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:45,479 Speaker 1: put them into a national firearms database. For using microscopic 175 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: little marks on those cartridge cases, you can compare them 176 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: to other shootings from other places. Because if you can 177 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: connect shootings one scene to another. You might be able 178 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: to collect evidence from one scene and another together to 179 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: give you an idea who the suspect is if you 180 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: didn't have the evidence in just one pen alone. So 181 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: there's a lot of possibilities here. To Jeff Cortesi, former 182 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: FBI special Agent, to me, this sounds like a professional hit. 183 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: What do you think, well, you know, the degree of 184 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: professionalism is yet to be known, but it certainly is 185 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: a planned out hit. It's it's assuming that the information 186 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: we've received so far is correct, that they were wearing 187 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: the individuals wearing a FedEx shirt, you know, anything that 188 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: shows a certain degree of pre planning, the ability to 189 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: get close to the home without drawing suspicion, like a 190 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: delivery person. You know, thus far, it doesn't appear to 191 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: be something haphazard and unthought out. Of course, a professional hit, 192 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: I believe, could also tell someone lying in wait so 193 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: they're not identified in any way, which certainly was not 194 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: the case here. But to doctor Angela Arnold renounce psychiatrists 195 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Arnold, either 196 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: this guy was paid to do the killing and if 197 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: the judge was the target, he failed, or it's someone 198 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: bearing a grudge. You would think if it was someone 199 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: bearing a grudge either against the judge, her defense lawyer, husband, 200 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: or their son. Hard for me to imagine it's their son. 201 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: He's just twenty. I mean, what has he really done 202 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: in life? You get a grudge that would conjure up 203 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: a hit man. But think about it, doctor Angela. If 204 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: it was a grudge, this person had to bide their time. 205 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: And when you're that angry you want to kill. Is 206 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: that consistent with biding your time and creating a well 207 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: thought out planned to kill. These are such high profile 208 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: cases that this judge has involved in. It doesn't sound 209 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: to me like this is someone that's holding a grudge. 210 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: It sounds like this was boy. I would not want 211 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: to be any part of a Jeffrey Epstein case, would you. 212 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: But now, wait a minute before he dragged Epstein into it? Yeah, 213 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: I mean, Epstein ends up dead behind bars, and I'm 214 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: not convinced it was suicide. But she was just assigned 215 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: the Epstein case last week. She hasn't even had a 216 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: chance to make a ruling good or bad, to make 217 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: anybody mad. She just got the case, and it's a 218 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: very attenuated case, Doctor Angela. Because it involves Deutsche Bank 219 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: and claims against Deutsche Bank that they misled people about 220 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: their vetting process of people they gave loans to or 221 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: did business with, because they did business with Jeffrey Epstein, 222 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: the billionaire pedophile. So it's Epstein adjacent. It's not really 223 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: a out Epstein. It's about Deutsche banks lending and business 224 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: policies and did they mislead people about how they vetted 225 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: their clients. I mean, if you give multimillion dollars loans 226 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: to people that can't pay or are criminals, those loans 227 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: are going to fall through and all of the bank 228 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: customers are going to take the heat for it. That's 229 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: what it's about. It per se about Epstein. But yeah, 230 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: she handle cases about the Crypts, gangs, the Blood Gang, 231 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: cartel members, Teresa, Judah, Jay the Housewife, a lot of 232 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: high profile cases. But all judges do that, not dra 233 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold. Well, I'll tell you something. I think it's 234 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: best to go looking for what's head on in front 235 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: of you first instead of trying to look for Zebras. 236 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: She is a very she's a judge who takes care 237 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: of very high profile cases. And I have a feeling 238 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: that this assassination attempt, which we could possibly call it 239 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: is connected to one of those high profile cases. Okay, 240 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: let's talk about the cases. Let's talk about the husband, 241 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: the defense attorney that was shot multiple times. I think 242 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: it's very critical. Mark I Glars joining me criminal defense 243 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: attorney out of Florida. You can find him at speak 244 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: to Martin dot com. Mark, don't you think if the 245 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: hit was on the judge, they would have killed the judge? Yeah? 246 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: I'm not. I am not buying that the intended targets 247 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: were hit. Um. I mean meaning that that strike that 248 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: the targets were these these two. If they wanted the judge, 249 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: they would have walked into the house and finished the job. 250 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: So again, I want to know who this twenty year 251 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: old is. You say he's only been on this earth 252 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: a short time. In twenty years, he could and again 253 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: this is I don't mean to disparage you know, the 254 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: victim in any way, but I'd want to know his history, 255 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: you know, what was he involved with. I'd want to 256 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: know the judge, I mean the husband. Also, I've had 257 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: clients whom you have expressed desire to want to do 258 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: me harm after the results were not what they expected 259 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: i'd want to know the latest cases. I don't. I 260 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: am not jumping on the assassination bandwagon just yet. As 261 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: far as it relates to the judge, Yeah, crime stories 262 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, we are talking about the shooting death 263 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: of a judge's only child, her son, twenty year old Daniel, 264 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: and the very serious shooting of her husband. Defense attorney 265 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: Mark and Earl was the judge targeted. Take a listen 266 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: to this. That husband and father rushed in very critical 267 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: and in surgery. The exact condition where he was shot, 268 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: we don't know that yet, but again we're being told 269 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: from our sources that he was shot multiple times. And 270 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 1: again within the last few moments, we've confirmed that the 271 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: couple's son, in his twenties, has died after this shooting. 272 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: As for the judge, we are told from our sources 273 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: she was actually in the basement of the home at 274 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: the time and was not injured. Taking back out live 275 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: here to the neighborhood where federal investigators right now continue 276 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: their search. We just got a statement in moments ago 277 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: from the FBI confirming that they are investigating the shooting, 278 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: and tonight that they say that they are looking for 279 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: one subject they're asking anyone who thinks they might have 280 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: information on who this shooter is, they're asked to turn 281 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: that person over to investigators immediately. Again. Judge Esther Salis 282 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: her son killed her husband now biting for his life 283 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: in the hospital right now as federal agents search for 284 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: a killer. Guys, you were hearing our friends at NBC four. 285 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: That was Adam Harning. Right now, the search is on 286 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: for a single gunman in the shooting death of the 287 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: family of Judge Esther Salis, a federal court judge who 288 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: has presided over a lot of high profile cases. Salis 289 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: herself apparently in the basement at the time of the shooting. 290 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: You know, I want to take a look at what 291 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: happened to Jeff Cortesi, former FBI special Agent Jeff The 292 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: shooting takes place broad Delight, five o'clock on a Sunday afternoon. 293 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: That's not typically a hot spot, a hot time for shootings. 294 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: Usually murders like this happen you know, at nighttime, not 295 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: in an upscale neighborhood with a low crime rate, not 296 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: in a neighborhood where you know everybody has surveillance video 297 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: out the ying yang. What do you make of the 298 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: timing of the shooting Jeff, Yeah, you know five o'clock 299 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: is not what it necessarily used to be. There a 300 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: lot of people working from home. Uh that that maybe 301 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: a historically would have been traveling to and from work 302 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: at that time. I don't know how much that necessarily 303 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: plays into it. But it's on a Sunday, there's the 304 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: five o'clock commute. It's not the same one Sunday as 305 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: it would be on Monday to Friday. No, absolutely, And 306 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: and you know, in light of the time, the lack 307 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: of cover from from the night, the likelihood of CCTV 308 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: being in the neighborhood, you know that there are, like 309 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: I said, you know, steps that were taken to get close. 310 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: But this is more about the completion than it is 311 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: about necessarily getting away with it, is what my read 312 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,239 Speaker 1: would it would be. Um, you know, they were more 313 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: inclined or more interested in getting the job done than 314 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: maybe even necessarily getting away with it. And of course, 315 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: you Mark, I go oursh criminal defense turning out of Florida. 316 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: This is a federal judge that could make this a 317 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: federal case, and the fans do have the death penalty 318 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: for case is just like this, so somebody is risking 319 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: their own life to take out members of the judges family. Yeah, 320 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 1: this could result the death penalty. I'd like to know 321 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: who it is who did it first. It's like to 322 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: see their background. There's a lot that goes into that 323 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: whole analysis. To Jennifer Shan, forensic pathologists joining me, former 324 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: director of San Diego Police Parma Crime Lab at jen 325 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: Schen Forensics dot com. Jennifer, how difficult would it be 326 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: to disguise that vehicle? We haven't been told if the 327 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: vehicle was outfitted to look like a FedEx truck or not. 328 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: But that VM number, the v I N that every 329 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: car is like a fingerprint and it's embedded into the 330 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: car that could be changed out. That that vehicle could 331 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: be at a chop shop right now. Yeah, you're right 332 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: about that. And I was actually wondering what kind of 333 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: vehicle the person arrived in. It's your point earlier. You know, 334 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: a neighborhood like this, it's going to have an exceptional 335 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: number of video cameras, surveillance systems, so it is you know, 336 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: there will be so many tools that can be used 337 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: to help find that car. And I don't know, I'm 338 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: listening to how this all went down. I wonder, I 339 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: wonder if it seems a little erratics, the shooting not 340 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: really completing. I don't know what job this person was 341 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: trying to complete, but in and out in a way, 342 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: I don't know that there would. I think there's a 343 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: good chance that they could find the car based upon 344 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: the surveillance videos, and after finding the car, then be 345 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: able to track down this person. It is. You are 346 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: capable of skyping vehicles. You can despise the license plate number, 347 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: as you said, you can change that the van number. 348 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: You can do the whole chop chop routine. But that's 349 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: that's pretty advanced, and I don't know if that's the 350 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: situation in this case, if this person is that advanced, 351 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: or just scrape off the van and burn the saying right, 352 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: an incredible amount of planning went into the shooting. But 353 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: if this is a professional hit, does that mean that 354 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: Judge Esther Salas was not the target? The husband shot 355 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: once he's in I see you the sun shot multiple times. 356 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: It's what we're getting right now from the crime scene. 357 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Who was the real target? Take 358 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at CBS two, please telling 359 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: us that that gunman was dressed up as a delivery 360 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: man when he rang the doorbell here at their home, 361 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: right here behind me, and when they opened the door, 362 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: he opened fire, shooting Federal Judge Esther Salis's husband and 363 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: killing their twenty year old son. Now please have been 364 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: out here on scene investigating since this happened around five 365 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: o'clock Sunday night. Her husband, Mark Andrell, a defense defense attorney, 366 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: answered the door and was shot and rushed to the hospital. 367 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: Their twenty year old son, Daniel, was also shot and 368 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: according to authorities, was killed. Now sourced to say Judge 369 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: to Salas was not injured, that she was in the 370 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: basement at the time, and the gunman got away. Now 371 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: grief shooken Ebers are in shock and can't imagine why 372 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: anyone would want to harm the family. I mean, just 373 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: very good natured, wonderful people. So hopefully they'll be okay. 374 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: And that said, we love them very very much. That's 375 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: all I can say. We love them very very much, 376 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: and we do anything for them, and I think they 377 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: would do anything for anyone. May to you Mark I 378 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: Glass joining me, criminal defense attorney out of Florida. You know, 379 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: at a certain echelon. Defense attorneys pick and shoes the 380 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: cases they want. You know, like there's a lawyer that 381 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: represents only Atlanta Falcons. They're defense attorneys that only do 382 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: and I trust defense once you get to a certain 383 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: let me just say, echelon, you're not wandering the courthouse 384 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: getting a point of cases anymore, taking whatever the judge 385 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: throws at you. Let's think about what was this lawyer 386 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: her husband? What kind of case he says did he pick? 387 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: He's a defense lawyer, was he appointed to take cases? 388 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: Did he do drug cases? Did he do high profile 389 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: cases where someone would want to kill him? Did he 390 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: know about criminal dealings that someone was afraid he would 391 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: right out to his wife the judge. I mean, when 392 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: you look at it, the sun is the only one dead. 393 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: But the sun was home from college. How did they 394 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: even know if the sun was gonna be there? So 395 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: there's so many questions right now about who is a 396 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: real target. There's no rate, there's no sex assault, there's 397 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: no theft, so we know it wasn't the typical reasons 398 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: for burglary. We don't even know if the guy even 399 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: went across the front threshold. It sounds like he started 400 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: shooting when people came to the door. So what do 401 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: you make about the possibility the husband was the target. 402 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: I think that that's equally as plausible a scenario, just 403 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: as it could be the sun, because I don't know 404 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: if the Sun was into game, ambling or drugs or 405 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: anything like that, as it could be the judge. So yeah, 406 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: I would look into the latest cases this gentleman took. 407 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: If there's some, you know, some drug cases involving some 408 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: dangerous folks, I'd like to know that maybe he devoted 409 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: his practice to only representing innocent people like I have. 410 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: I mean, he hasn't had a case in years, But 411 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: I digress. Let's take a look and see who he's 412 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: really representing. And something tells me that in recent times 413 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: it would be somebody who had a beef with him, 414 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: who didn't get the outcome that they wanted, who pulled 415 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: the cape fear on him in some way. I think 416 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: that the police have to look into that. Angle Cime 417 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, you guys were talking about a horror, 418 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: terrific shooting. Judge Esther Salas on the bench the Federal 419 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: bench in the District Court at home on a Sunday 420 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: afternoon doorbell rings, husband's son go the door and they're 421 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: both shot multiple times. We know the sun shot through 422 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: the heart. We've been told the husband has been shot 423 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: multiple times. Is this a hit on the judge or not? 424 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: The judge remains unscathed physically, although straight out to you, 425 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, I can't imagine a pain worse than 426 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: losing your only child. Oh my gosh. And and she 427 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: stands the chance of losing her husband also. It sounds 428 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: like we know that this guy, the husband, was a 429 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: former prosecutor for over ten years. He then became a 430 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: defense attorney and has tried a lot of cases. And 431 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: let me tell you, after trying a lot of cases, 432 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: you make a lot of enemies to Nicole apartment. What 433 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: do we know about the sun Daniel? We know that 434 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: Daniel was entering his junior year at the Catholic University 435 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: of America down NBC. We know that he made the 436 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: University of Arts and Science Being List in the spring. 437 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: He was an up and coming baseball star. And we're 438 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: hearing from a next door neighbor who frequently talked to 439 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: the husband Mark that their Sunday afternoon routine was for 440 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: Mark and his son Daniel to go down to the 441 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: nearby baseball park where they tossed the baseball where the 442 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: sun Daniel practiced baseball. A neighbor saying, they're even surprised 443 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: that the two of them were home because typically they 444 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: were gone on a Sunday afternoon. So okay, hearing that, 445 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: Jeff CORTEZI, former FBI special agent, knowing those facts, is 446 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: that change your opinion? Well, you know, I think it's 447 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: too early to have too strong opinion one way or 448 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: the other. I think, you know, all options have to 449 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: remain open. That certainly is an important note. But again, 450 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: we don't know the level of sophistication of the individual 451 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: who fired the the rounds into their house. So you know, 452 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: was it something that they would possibly know, what level 453 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: of surveillance could they have conducted prior to? Was this 454 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: a you know, a response to something recent that had 455 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: occurred and it was you know, thrown a fed Ex 456 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: shirt on and had an over there and doing it, 457 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: or was it something more planned out? So you know, 458 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: all options are on the table, All potential targets are 459 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: on the table until proven otherwise. At this point, straight 460 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: back out to you, Nicole parton what else, can you 461 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: tell us anything about the neighborhood, about the family, anything 462 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: at all, an upscale neighborhood. His colleagues, marks colleagues are 463 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: beginning to speak out, saying that he was well loved, 464 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: well liked among his peers, no known threats that he 465 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: had spoke of amongst his peers or in the office. 466 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: Son Daniel, a very upstanding young man doing well in college. 467 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: At this point, the neighbors are just devastated, saying that 468 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: they haven't heard of anything going on, that they can't 469 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: imagine that anyone would want to harm them. You know, 470 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: I still find it very unlikely that the sun is 471 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: the target. To you, Jennifer Shan, forensic pathologist, help us 472 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: illuminate this case with your knowledge. Well, you know, I've 473 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: seen so many crime teams over the years, and it 474 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: always surprises me what people do when committing crimes. So 475 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm still looking at this case and wondering. Because the 476 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: person came to the front door. First of all, if 477 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: the target was judge that this person would have to 478 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: get through two men in the doorway. And I think 479 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: once that you the door is open in your face, 480 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: was not one but two, you know, essentially grown men 481 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: and you opened fire to at that point in a 482 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: neighborhood like that, go through the foyer and then into 483 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: the house to find the judge that would be That 484 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: would be a pretty gut see maneuver because you've already 485 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: alerted everyone to your presence. So I I mean, I 486 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: just I think it's going to be really interesting. I 487 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: agree with the investigators who would say that it's all 488 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: options are on the table because you just have no 489 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: idea what was going on in that person's head. There 490 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: is definitely some level of sophistication here, but it's not 491 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: that high of a level of sophistication from what I've seen, 492 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: because it was at five o'clock and it was in daylight, 493 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: and it was in a low crime neighborhood, and it 494 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: was somewhere with a lot of surveillance, and it doesn't 495 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: look like unless the sun was the actual target, it 496 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: doesn't look like the mission was accomplished. And I think 497 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: with the forensics that are going to be found at 498 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: that scene, it's highly highly likely they're going to catch 499 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: this person, and it's just going to be fascinating to 500 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: see what the actual motive was here. When you say 501 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: the forensics get the scene make it highly likely the 502 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: will be caught. What do you mean by that? What forensics? Well, 503 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: I think that again we talked about surveillance. I think 504 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: that there's going to be so much surveillance it's going 505 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: to be easy to attract this person in and out 506 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: of the neighborhood. And then my hope would be that 507 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: there is some DNA and some I mean, it depends 508 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: on who this person is, if they've never really done 509 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: anything like this before. We may not have any We 510 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: may have any databases that have anything in them that 511 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: would be useful. You have to have to have a 512 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: person in a database in order for DNA to make 513 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: a difference for you. Same with a weapon. If it's 514 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: a weapon that has never been used before, it would 515 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: be difficult to come up with any clues. But touch 516 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: DNA is amazing. They days fingerprints. Certainly most people are 517 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: in a fingerprint database somewhere, and the surveillance is just 518 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: going to be absolutely key in my opinion. Explain to 519 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: our listeners what you made by touch DNA well away 520 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: back in the day. You know you need it like 521 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: a pool of blood or semen or spit or something 522 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: you could actually physically see in order to get in 523 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: s DNA to develop a profile to compare to someone. 524 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: But in the last decade or so, it's the techniques 525 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: are so sensitive that now as long as your perpetrator 526 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: has handled something that not just barely brushed it, actually 527 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: handled it. So for instance, a screwdriver or something at 528 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: a scene that was used to wedge open a window 529 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: or something, there would be enough contact from the person 530 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: to handle that screwdriver, that DNA would be left on it, 531 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: enough of it, even though you can't see it and 532 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't come from a body fluid, you can develop 533 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: a DNA profile and put it in the database and 534 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: get it hit so you know if you have to 535 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: hat or a shirt at the scene. That's the other 536 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: thing is that oftentimes when people are running away in 537 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: a high panic or a machine they drop things. Everything 538 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: they drop can be related back to them, you know, 539 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: us through investigation of where do they buy it or 540 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: what is it, but also through DNA which you get 541 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: from the sweat, fingerprints, some sort of sometimes dog hair 542 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: or something is something that can compare that can that 543 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: can giving enough evidence to connect that that thing back 544 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: to the perpetrator. Further complicating it is that in the 545 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,479 Speaker 1: time of COVID. Jeff Cortezi, former special FBI special agent, 546 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: he very well could have been wearing a mask and gloves. 547 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: You know, if you look at FedEx delivery people, grocery 548 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: delivery people, male people, they're all wearing very thin gloves 549 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: and masks. What about that, Jeff, No, that's absolutely a possibility. 550 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: You know, the current climate has provided for some natural 551 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: cover that that doesn't stand out as odd or unusual, 552 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: which again I think ultimately goes back to you know, 553 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: a lot of that surveillance CCTV in and around the 554 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: neighborhood is going to be very critical to, you know, 555 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: the determination of who this person was, what direction they traveled, 556 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: and in what vehicle they were they were transported in. 557 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this, Judge Estra Salas and her 558 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: son Mark Andrell and Daniel, who is a freshman in college, 559 00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: live in North Brunswick and at some point today someone 560 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: who was apparently dressed as a Federal Express driver rang 561 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: or knocked on the door and when it was answered, 562 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: he shot and the Mark Andrel has come through a 563 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: surgery tonight and is now listed in stable condition, and 564 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: very sadly Daniel has died, and I understand that Judge 565 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: Salis is not physically harmed. You are hearing from the 566 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: Mayor of North Brunswick. That's Francis Womack. The son Daniel 567 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: shot and killed the husband, and I see you now, 568 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: the judge standing vigil at the hospital. We wait as 569 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: justice unfoals. Nancy Grace Clime Stories signing off, goodbye, friend. 570 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: This is John Lemley with Crime online dot Com. Just 571 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: as we're closing this hour of Crime Stories, we're learning 572 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: from our friends at ABC News that the suspect and 573 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: the shooting of New Jersey Judge Esther Solis's family has 574 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: been found dead of an apparent self inflicted gunshot wound. 575 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: ABC News is citing multiple law enforcement sources in the 576 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: release of this story, ABC adding that the deceased suspect 577 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,720 Speaker 1: was an attorney who had a case before Judge Solace 578 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. Please stay with Crime online dot Com 579 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: throughout the day and overnight for the very latest on 580 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: this developing story.