WEBVTT - The Pasta Salad Episode Is a Toss-Up 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.520 Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:13.800 and I'm Lauren vocal Bam, and today we have an 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:18.000 episode for you about pasta salad and macaroni salad as 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:18.959 a subunit of that. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:26.520 Yes, oh my, oh well, was there any reason this 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:27.240 was on your mind? 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:27.600 Lauren? 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:33.960 Oh, we are in the kind of summertime picnic cookout season. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.879 I almost said era, but sure, that's a word as 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:43.400 well above the year era of the year, and macaroni 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:51.480 salad is a very American pot luck summertime dish. I 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.160 personally don't like it at all. I'm not a fan. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.680 We have found the one episode where I wasn't hungry 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.240 the entire time that I was reading about something. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.200 This cracks me up too, because just in time for 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:08.760 your birthday. I'm glad we chose a topic. Maybe this 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:10.000 says something about you. 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:16.520 I'm not sure that you don't like. I meant to 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.600 record it like last week instead of this week, but 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:25.959 things happened and I did reward myself with our spoiler alert. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.520 Our next episode topic after this one is a giant 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.280 tiger prons and I'm so excited to talk about shrimp. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.320 So it's all gonna work out. It'll yeah, it'll all 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.320 work out. It just kind of makes me laugh. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.520 Yeah, I've got no real strong opinion about pasa salad. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.039 I mean, probably anyone who listens to the show knows 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.600 I go for the vinegary ones and not the male ones. 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.960 Yeah, you famously dislike Mayo. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:02:01.520 Yes, famously. But it's also dependent on what else is available. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.480 The pot lucking question whether or not I'll go for 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:07.360 the apasta sALS like, it's usually not my. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.400 First choice if there's a lot of other sides. But 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.840 there's a lot of factors that come into play whether 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.480 or not I'll eat apasta Sal's basically what I'm saying, 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.360 But I do. I did enjoy reading about how. 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:29.960 Many different pasta salads there are, all the things people 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:30.600 have done. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:31.600 And it's goodness. 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.200 Yeah, I don't think I had really thought about the 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:43.679 iterations and now you can't. Now I can't done think Yeah, 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:44.360 oh no. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.520 And because I researched this, now I'm getting all these 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.440 like here are some recipes, and I learn even more iterations. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.799 Oh okay, So that being said, you can see our 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:03.440 past pasta episodes. You can also see Potato salad and 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.240 mac and Cheese maybe even aspects. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.960 Sure, salad salad in general. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.480 Sure, our episodes from Hawaii, I think we talk about 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.320 Hawaiian and my macaroni. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:20.200 Salad briefly Mayo ranch. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.840 Yeah, but honestly the point being a lot can go 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:25.040 into a pasta salad. 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:30.920 Yeah right, yeah yeah. Also related definitely Coleslaw and our 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.200 Pasta Shapes episode. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.560 Yeah yeah yeah. 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.240 Oh well, okay, I guess that does bring us to 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:43.440 our question. 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:52.520 Pasta salad? What is it? Well, pasta and or macaroni 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.920 salads can be a lot of things, as is frequently 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.320 the case with salads, but what you are basically looking 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:04.360 at is a savory mixture of cooked white wheat pasta, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:09.480 usually in bite sized pieces, plus additions like chopped vegetables, pickles, 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.120 meat or cheese, seasoned with salt and pepper, and herbs 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.200 and spices of your choice, all tossed in some kind 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:20.200 of fatty dressing that'll help the flavors and physical ingredients 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:27.400 cohese form of cohesion, yeah, come together. Yes, perhaps obviously. 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.440 If it's a macaroni salad, the pasta used will specifically 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.160 be elbow macaroni, which is a type of small diameter, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.400 short cut tube pasta that has a slight bend to 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.240 the tube, rather like an elbow. This shape, as with 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.960 many of the shapes used for pasta salads, has a 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.600 lot of surface area that can kind of glom up 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.120 the dressing and the seasonings. These salads are served chilled 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.400 or room temperature as a side dish, often during hot 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.480 summer weather when you'd want something cool, often at a 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.000 picnic or cookout sort of situation where people are bringing 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.719 dishes for a large group. But it can just be 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.320 like a nice side for a lunch plate or a sandwich. 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.920 A pasta salad is a vehicle for like cool vegetable 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.480 flavors and smooth texture with a bit of pleasant shoe 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.120 and sometimes crunch, and it's filling without feeling too heavy. 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:24.200 Hopefully it's like it's like sitting dockside or pool side 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:29.520 on a bright day in the cool shade, or at 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.680 least I imagine if you enjoy pasta salads, that's what 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:33.320 it would be like. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.320 I was about to say, I appreciate how much effort 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:43.039 you're going to hide your derision, isn't it is? It's 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.520 the temperature you don't like, correct, It's. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.479 The texture that you usually get from I just I 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.520 don't want my pasta to be cold. I don't understand why. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.560 I don't understand why you're making pasta and then it's 0:05:55.640 --> 0:06:01.360 not warm. And I can in vision a pasta salad 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.640 that I would enjoy. And I've thought a lot about 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.440 this over the past few days of doing reading okay good, 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.880 I think I think if it was like an orzo, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.640 like a very small pasta, because I don't mind cool 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:22.280 like like couscous type dishes, yea, So so I can 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.920 envision like a like a like a olive oil based 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.160 orzo pasta salad with like nice bright herbs, I don't know, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.640 maybe some cheese or tomato or something in there. I 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.560 can envision somewhere out there there's a pasta salad for you. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.479 It's just not mayo based macaroni salad. I don't think 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:50.600 that's okay, but but okay, So beyond beyond the two 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:55.040 of us, In places where pasta salad is popular and 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.920 or traditional, there are opinions about the right or wraw 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.240 or best or worst ways to make a pasta salad. 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.880 And those places are mostly areas where like Italian pasta 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:13.160 making traditions have interacted with Eastern to Southern European mixed 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.280 salad making traditions. Of course, food is a globalized phenomenon. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.000 You get lots of pockets and rifts in there, but okay. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.480 Dressings for pasta salad come in two basic categories, under 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:29.760 which there are many iterations, so creamy versus non creamy. 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.920 The creaminess can come from mayo or mao substitutes which 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.320 contain no dairy and or something dairy based like sour 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:40.800 cream or like a caesar or ranch dressing. The non 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.520 creamy versions will be oil based, sometimes a neutral oil, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.600 but sometimes a flavorful one like a peanut or sesame 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:52.280 oil or blend. There are schools of thought about whether 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.960 a tangy ingredient should be added to the dressing, like 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.920 a vinegar or a lemon juice, or even whether a 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.760 tangy based like miracle whip or sour cream are appropriate. 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.440 There are schools of thought about whether sweet elements are 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.680 appropriate in the dressing, like a ketchup or maybe just sugar. 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.040 Whatever your choices. People will play off of those dressings 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:16.320 with all kinds of different seasonings. Fresh herbs like basil, thyme, 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.320 mint or cilantro, fresh air, dried hot peppers, citrus, zest, 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:25.880 minced garlic or chives, maybe some mustard, grated parmesan or cottilla, cheese, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:31.400 sesame seeds, hot sauce. I don't know. There are strong 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.480 opinions out there about every possible ingredient you could add, 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.200 and what the texture should be like, like should the 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.720 ingredients match the texture of the pasta like tender and 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:45.320 or chewy or should they be crunchy related should fresh 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.599 vegetables be raw or blanched or cooked? For those vegetables, 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:55.520 you might have carrots, celery, sweet peppers, cucumber, broccoli, peas, corn, tomatoes, onions. 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.800 A lot of recipes will add a pickled or brined element, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:03.840 like whatever of pickled cucumber or peppers, or olives or capers. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.640 A protein element might include something like a crumbled bacon 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:13.600 or sausage, maybe some chopped salami, boiled shrimp, smoked fish, 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.040 chunks of a fresh cheese like feta or mozzarella, chopped 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.920 hard boiled egg, maybe some crunchy pine nuts or walnuts. 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:23.840 I mean, at a certain point here, I'm just listing foods, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.360 you know, Like it's a salad, like you can put 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.199 whatever you want in it and be aware that someone 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.400 will probably argue about whether it belongs there. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:40.240 Indeed, the salad is your oyster. But you know that 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:41.480 you could go too far. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.800 You can fly too close to the salad sun. Absolutely. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.640 People do also have preferences about the types of pasta 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.880 that you use. You know that elbow macaroni versus a 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:01.160 bowtie versus shells or rotini or orzo or ramen or tortalini. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:06.079 I don't know. Also, is that pasta white or it 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.600 doesn't need to be dyed other colors? 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:09.760 I don't know. 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:16.360 I can't tell you, wouldn't dare no. What I can 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:21.120 give you, though, is a science tip. So okay, if 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.040 you're making a pasta salad, you do not want to 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:28.080 cook your pasta al dente because you're not serving it hot. Aldenti. 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.120 Pasta served hot has a lovely bit of chew to it, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.720 like that's the point. And it has that texture because 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.480 you've cooked it just so. The starches and the pasta 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.280 to latinize and go all woobly and tender and chewy. 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.840 But when starch is cool, they realign themselves into a 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:51.920 crystalline structure that's stiff and pushes water out like this 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.160 is the reason that bread goes stale over time, and 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:59.560 it's called retrogradation. So when you're making pasta salad, you 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.800 have to for that. That means that you cook your 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.200 pasta a couple of minutes longer than you normally would, 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.679 let it go softer, and then as it cools, it'll 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:11.600 retrograde back to the firmness that you're looking for. Also, 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.920 since this is a dish that's going to sit at 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.600 least until it cools to room temperature or colder, definitely 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.840 give it a taste before serving and adjust the seasoning 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:21.559 is necessary. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:29.320 I love this pasta salad science tips. You've got to 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:34.480 know whoa what about The nutrition. 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:40.280 Really really depends, you know, hydrate Yep, yep, that's rue sah, 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:45.920 that's eat a vegetable that's not in a pasta salad. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:51.440 Yeah, well, we do have some numbers for you. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:56.640 We do. Okay, So humans enjoy pasta in general. As 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.800 of twenty twenty two, we were producing about seventeen million 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.760 tons of it a year. Wow, which is a number 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.520 that I don't have a good concept of. It's a bunch. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.520 A you Gov poll conducted in twenty twenty five showed 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.680 that Americans enjoy a macaroni salad. Ninety six percent of 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.920 US are familiar with it and sixty three percent of 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.440 us like it, So I'm in the minority. That's fine. 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:24.840 And they found that the UK has similar feelings about 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.839 pasta salad about ninety eight percent are familiar sixty one 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.360 percent like it. Interesting though, I think the American question 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.720 might have specifically been about a creamy like mayo dressing salad, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.600 and the UK question was specifically about a non creamy 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.040 pasta salad. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.679 I think we had a listener write in about that 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:46.920 about potato salad. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:53.719 Yeah, question, Yeah. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:52.880 Well, listener's right in. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:54.520 Yeah, yeah. 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.160 I will say it's popular enough in the United States 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.240 that Ted Ed did an animated short talking about like 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.520 molecules and different types of mixtures, you know, like solutions 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:08.840 versus suspensions, and they were using macaroni salad as their 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.920 like main metaphor or possibly similarly. I didn't watch the video. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:19.400 I don't know. It's interesting to me because pasta salad, 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.520 I know, make some people angry When I say this, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.440 it feels like such an afterthought to me. Oh, like, 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.880 it's like the thing that's there, but it's not what 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.320 you're there. It's not what you're there for, right, But 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.679 I know there are some people who would disagree with 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:42.920 me heartily. Oh absolutely. I will get into some of 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.360 that in the history section, but first we are going 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.040 to get into a quick break for a word from 0:13:48.080 --> 0:14:01.120 our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:06.480 So the origins of pasta slash macaroni salad, they are 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:07.480 a bit of a tooss up. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.720 See what I did there? Oh hey heyah finger guns? 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.680 Yeah all right, so yeah, you can see our Shapes 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.440 of Pasta episode for more about this. But historians really 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:25.360 love arguing about who invented pasta and when and based 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:31.840 on what cultural influences. But whatever the case, it seems 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:36.280 to have existed around the Italian peninsula by the eleven 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:42.440 hundreds or so, and perhaps concentrated in like southern Italy 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:50.520 and Sicily. Other confusion fun with etymology. So in American English, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.640 when you say macaroni, you almost certainly mean elbow macaroni 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:59.400 as defined above, But in Italian and perhaps especially historically, 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.680 the macaroni can be used to describe any type of 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.600 pasta that is made from hard wheat flour dough and 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:11.760 then dried and like sold dry, So that's that's cool. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:21.600 Extrusion methods to produce different three dimensional pasta shapes, like 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:27.200 tube shapes, were invented sometime around the sixteen hundreds, and 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:32.080 the Industrial Revolution made grain processing and pasta making more efficient, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.400 and so dried pastas were common around Italy for everyday 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:42.280 people by like the late seventeen hundreds. Mm, that is 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.920 very brief. That is a very brief summer, is it. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:51.160 We're both like holding up our hands. Yes, we understand 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.600 the whole history there, but for the macaroni salad, it 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.760 is believed to be an American innovation that took place 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.320 so time in the early nineteen hundreds. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.520 Yeah, so like waves of Italian immigrants had brought over 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.680 dried pastas and like the technological know how to make 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.800 them starting in the early eighteen hundreds, American recipes for 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.600 pasta or being printed by like the eighteen twenties. We 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.560 had a pasta manufacturers association by nineteen oh four, so right, 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:22.640 so it was becoming a common product. 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.960 Rites and media outlets were publishing recipes for macaroni salads 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:34.320 by nineteen fourteen. Okay, so now while we don't know 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.040 for sure the history, there are some prevailing theories. One 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.560 is that pasta salad is a melding of a lot 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.480 of cultures that perhaps came together based on available ingredients 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.880 in different communities interacting with each other. In the US, 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.040 the pasta from Italy the tradition of mayo based dressings 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.000 from Germany, kind of like potato salad. In fact, sometime 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.040 around the nineteen thirties, pasta salad was touted as a 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:04.720 cheap version of potato salad in some places. In the 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.720 ensuing decades, pasta salad was a popular side dish at delis. 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.720 In nineteen thirty seven, Crafts Macaroni and Cheese debuted, which 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.880 isn't macaroni salad, but I'm sure led to a lot 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:20.879 more people getting familiar with this type of pasta. A 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.560 lot of these early pasta salad recipes were typically molded 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:29.000 and served chilled. Generally, a macaroni salad was dressed with mayo, 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.919 and a pasta salad was dressed with vinegarrette. And a 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.720 lot of what it came down to was what do 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.800 you got in your pantry. What's a cheap filling dish 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:40.440 that I can make with what I have? 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:45.200 Use some stuff up, let's go exactly Worth pointing out, though, 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.960 that some researchers believe that the pasta salad is rooted 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.920 in Italian Jewish cuisine. Yeah, so, in traditional Jewish culture, 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.919 you don't cook from sundown to sundown on the weekly 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.399 Sabbath because cooking is work, and work is prohibited, you know, 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.000 supposed to be a day of reflection and rest. But 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.760 as checkers will point out, you got to eat. So 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.960 dishes that can be pre made and are in are good, 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.920 you know, like cold to room temperature are an entire thing. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.280 And there have been Jewish communities in Italy since before 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.800 there was pasta in Italy, Like like dried pastas have 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.680 been part of Silian Jewish cuisine since the fourteen hundreds. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.480 They were picking it up earlier than a lot of 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.720 other pockets of Italian culture. So it would make sense 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.560 if pasta salads happened there centuries before they happened here, 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.280 though direct evidence is kind of scant, Like, there are 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.520 definitely recipes from the nineteen hundreds that are now traditional 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.080 for like cool to room temperature pasta dishes, though they 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.760 tend to be more saucy and like less salady. Think 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.080 of some kind of pasta and like a tartan spicy 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.879 tomato sauce, or or maybe like a cooked down garlic 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.960 and anchovy and olive oil dressing kind of situation. There's 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.760 some Orthodox Jewish communities in the States have definitely picked 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:10.960 up like American style pasta salads. I love this. It's 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.440 such a mess of trying to figure out where any 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.639 of this came from. Yeah, yeah, it helps that you know, 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.280 mayo doesn't have dairy in it, and so you're not 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.159 gonna you're not gonna mix milk and meat, which is 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.119 another prohibition in a single meal by eating a mayo 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:28.480 based salad. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:34.600 Yeah, it's fascinating listeners. I'm really hoping you all write in. 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:36.480 Okay. 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:38.639 So kind of going off of that, there were a 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.240 lot of regional varieties that came up over the years 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.719 of pasta salads and macroni salad, which does bring us 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.679 to the Hawaiian macaroni salad aside, which again this is 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:55.280 very brief and could be its covering. Yes, so a 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.200 quick description upfront. Hawaiian versions of mac salad modernly are 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.879 usually ma based dressing with grated onion, other graded or 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.040 shredded ingredients like carrot, cabbage, and or hard boiled egg 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.000 seasoned simply with salt, pepper, and a bit of sugar, 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.119 and it served as a side with plate lunches. Yes, 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.679 some theories behind how the Hawaiian version came to be 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.200 revolve around European and American lead hotels that were housed 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:25.000 with European and American lead shifts opening in Hawaii around 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.720 this time, which explains the foreign ingredients of pasta and mayo. 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:34.240 Another piece may be European and mainland US plantation owners 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.800 who relied on local Asian chefs and producers. So all 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:42.240 these things, but outside of the hotel scene, this max 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.680 salad was a cheap, filling dish that could sustain workers 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:50.520 doing grueling manual labor. It was customizable. It balanced out 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.760 a lot of the salty, sweet heaviness of frequently tinned 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:58.560 sauced meats and rice that these laborers would enjoy. It 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:02.040 does provide a nice we had some Oh yeah, yeah, 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.800 it cuts through some acidity and saltiness. 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:06.600 It's really great. Yeah. 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.679 According to one article I read about it, potatoes dipped 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.560 in homemade mayo. The jarred stuff at the store was 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.920 too expensive, so homemade mayo and show you once was 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.959 a popular snack in Hawaii, and it wasn't hard to 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:22.879 make the jump to macaroni salad from there. Some of 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.640 the folks interviewed for this piece said that they had 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:31.119 heard stories of pushcart vendors working along Honolulu's waterfront selling 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.480 two scoops of rice, a choice of protein or stew, 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.440 and a scoop of mac salad by the nineteen twenties 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.720 and thirties, which is very much like. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:45.320 The plate lunch. Yep, yep, that's it. So again, very brief, 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.560 but we'll put that on the bookmark to do read. 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.320 I returned to Yeah. 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:56.240 Nineteen sixties articles from the New York Times included several 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:03.159 recipes for pasta salads. In the nineteen eighties, the number 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.600 of pasta salad recipes grew exponentially in the United States, 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:11.080 coinciding with the larger availability of more pasta shapes, sizes, 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.639 and even colors, as part of the growing affinity in 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:19.320 the United States for novelle French cuisine. That isn't to 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.359 say the cheaper nostalgic versions went away. 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:26.560 The field just expanded. Yeah yeah. In this version of 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:32.160 nouvelle cuisine, fancy chefs were playing with ingredients and presentation 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.560 and in a move away from like the stuffy, heavy, 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:40.680 complex cuisine which had been the fashion for decades. This 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:43.639 like nineteen seventies to eighties version of nouvelle cuisine was 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.640 focused on making the most of fresh ingredients and it 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:54.800 was playful, like rethinking traditional dishes for a pertinent to today. Example, 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.280 in the early eighties, this Italian chef of Gualtierro Marchesi 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:04.480 did a pasta salad that was long spaghetti dressed with 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:09.439 olive oil, salt and shives, topped with caviar and maybe 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:15.240 a pinch of minced shallat, served slightly chilled. And that's 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.520 a very posh example. Okay, but like, yeah, like this 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:25.440 this was a time when Americans discovered olive oil. Uh. 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.600 And also we're realizing that, like everything doesn't have to 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:35.000 be drenched in mayo all the time. There's other options. Yeah, 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:40.720 so right, we got some more varieties here, Yes, And 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.840 I think my mom makes one that probably was influenced 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:48.000 by that. It's like angel hair and olives and tomatoes 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.119 and capers and it's just all oil lovely. 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.760 Yeah, so nice, it's nice, it's nice. 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:56.960 She also makes a ramen one which I've talked about before. 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:02.680 Yeah really, okay, sometime around here I couldn't find an 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:06.119 exact date, but sometime around here, American companies started selling 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:10.080 boxed pasta salad kits and stores, and pre made pasta 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:11.640 salads at grocery stores as well. 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:13.760 I love. 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:20.119 I have witnessed these. My mom had, she made some. 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.440 I love how they're called. It is like suddenly surprised. 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:25.040 They have a name that makes it sound like the 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.879 pasta salad is attacking. 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:28.119 You or something. 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:32.760 But if you've seen like these box salad kits, you've 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:34.040 probably seen this one. 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:38.239 Uh, simply surprised. I think that's what it is. 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.240 But you just like, get your cook the pasta, put 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:47.000 in your ranch probably ranch esque dressing in there, and 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.240 then that's at whatever you want, and that's it. Pasta 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:54.320 salad still available. I checked at my store. 0:24:54.080 --> 0:25:01.520 There you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. I now I'm a 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:05.040 little bit determined. Now I'm like, Okay, maybe maybe I'll 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:07.520 turn myself around on pasta salad. Maybe I will figure 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.199 out maybe I just don't like it. Maybe I just 0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:11.800 don't like it, and that's fine too, But I'm going 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:15.960 to try. I'm going to make a concerted effort, an 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:17.040 honest yeah. 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:17.600 Try. 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:22.959 I did find a list of somebody rated like the 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:25.600 top pasta salads you could get at the store, and 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:28.199 I think the number one was an orzo salad. 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:34.320 So I think there's hope for you. People certainly are doing. 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:37.960 I couldn't find a lot of more recent numbers than this, 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:40.840 but people are certainly trying all kinds of things with 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:44.639 pasta salad right now. So if you are interested, it 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:45.600 is out there for you. 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:48.760 Oh my goodness. Yeah, the Internet would love to serve 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:54.240 you a list of twenty nine creative pasta salad takes. 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:58.080 It would love it so much, It very much would. 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:00.879 And to be honest, I don't know about Lauren, but 0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:04.200 I would love for you listeners to send in your 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:05.640 pasta salad recipe. 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:10.320 Yes, oh absolutely, yeah. Yeah, But that's what we have 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:14.720