1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: For years, Richard Patrone lived in the apartment above his 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: parents bakery. By two thousand and five, Richard had moved 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: out and was living in an apartment in South Philly 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: to be closer to his daughter. On the day after 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: he went missing, his mother, Marge, wondered if she'd find 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: any clues in his apartment. 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: I said, I should go up there. 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 3: I stole his laundry and his you know, refrigerator full, 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 3: and I saw concert tickets for like March. On his death, 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 3: everything was like he was coming back. 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: As she works her way through her son's apartment, she 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: couldn't reconcile all the evidence of her son's everyday life 13 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: and the reality of his profound absence. 14 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 3: He had some Christmas gadgets and stuff that he didn't 15 00:00:55,280 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 3: even take a part and fix yet. And I thought, oka, yeah, 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 3: it was just left like you would leave and you 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 3: were coming back. This one of the worst to days 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 3: of my life. 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: Across town, Danielle's mother, Felice, held out hope her daughter 20 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: would return. 21 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 4: My mother, she was always optimistic. She had a two 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 4: bedroom condo and one bedroom shed. The bedmaid with like 23 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 4: a gift on the pillow for my sister. It was 24 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 4: just heartbreaking. 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is there and Gone South Street. 26 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: Episode four, Parade of Misery. 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 5: Is I say in my dream reached out in the 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 5: dog for you and last to me. I'll never give up. 29 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: No matter howllah. 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 5: I opened my define. 31 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: A note that the views and opinions expressed in this 32 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: podcast are solely those of the individuals participating. This podcast 33 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. 34 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: Discretion is advised. In February two thousand and five, Danielle 35 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: Imbo and Richard Patrone walked out of a South Street 36 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: bar and disappeared. No bloodstains, no evidence, no clues. As 37 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: the trail grows colder, the question grows larger. What really 38 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: happened that night? Those are the words of journalist Steve 39 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: Volk from his article in Philadelphia Magazine titled Without a Trace. 40 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: I remember reading it when it first came out, and 41 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: I would come back to read it again and again. 42 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: I felt like I learned something new every time I 43 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: read it. As I dug into this story and really 44 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: got to know the victims' families and what they endured. 45 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: After Danielle and Richard disappeared, I went back to Steve's article, 46 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: hoping that what happened to their families would somehow change. 47 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: But in the ten years after the article came out, 48 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: their lives didn't change. Not in Steve's article and not 49 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: in real life. I'll explain what I mean in a bit. Okay, 50 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: So can you introduce yourself real quick. 51 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 6: I'm Steve Volk. I'm a reporter, longtime reporter. I'm the 52 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 6: Philadelphia area and I was working at Philadelphia Magazine at 53 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 6: the time that I wrote this piece. 54 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: After months of trading emails, phone calls, and texts, Steve 55 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: ben and I finally sat down to talk in April 56 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four. At that point, his article was 57 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,279 Speaker 1: over ten years old, but not much in the investigation 58 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: has changed, you. 59 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 6: Know, Like what you guys have undertaken is a lot 60 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 6: more ambitious than what I did in terms of being 61 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 6: an investmentation. 62 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: Steve was worried he wouldn't remember many of the details 63 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: of the case since so much time had passed since 64 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: he wrote about Danielle and Richard's disappearance. So I gave 65 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: him a PDF of his article to refresh his memory, 66 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: and then watched as he scrolled page after page. 67 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 6: Wow, Yeah, it has been shocking to me to reread 68 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 6: the story and see the things that I thought I 69 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 6: remembered but didn't. 70 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: As the memories flooded back. For Steve, I started counting 71 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: the number of times his face would WinCE. 72 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 6: I wanted to write about it in part because people 73 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 6: had stopped writing about it, because I'd had a brother 74 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 6: die and recognized that, like you know, the anniversary's constant, 75 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 6: and so for some reason that really drew me to 76 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 6: writing about them. 77 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: Steve was bothered by the frequency of stories about Danielle 78 00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: and Richard. 79 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 6: Somebody would say, hey, it's been X number of years since, right, 80 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 6: there'd be one of those pieces if I remember correctly. 81 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 6: I always found that really wrong. 82 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: It's wrong, Steve told me, because for the victims' families, 83 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: the anniversary happens every day. 84 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 6: Really, the anniversary thing meant a whole lot to me. 85 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 6: I wanted to capture for people the unending pain that 86 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 6: I knew before I ever met them they must be 87 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 6: going through, so that we could stop talking about this 88 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 6: every February and start talking about it a lot more 89 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 6: than that. 90 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: For his articles, Steve interviewed some of the same people 91 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: you've heard in this podcast. 92 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 6: The thing I remember most really about it is the 93 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 6: emotional quality of spending time with Danielle's brother John. His 94 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 6: mom greets every new day with a fresh set of tears. 95 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 6: There's no metaphor there. She would wake up every day 96 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 6: and cry, just in order to sort of get herself started. 97 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 5: And then Richard and Marge. 98 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: That's when Steve paused. He said he hasn't been able 99 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: to shake the memory of interviewing Marge and Richard at 100 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: their bakery. 101 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 6: When I'm in there, you're surrounded by these festive desserts 102 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 6: and cakes, but the two of them are really like 103 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 6: in hell. They're in absolute hell. They both basically acted 104 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 6: like they could die tomorrow, except for Richard's daughter was 105 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 6: a motivating factor that she was left behind. 106 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: And then there was Richard's father, Richard. Steve said he 107 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: in particular stood out. 108 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 6: He wanted to kill somebody, is what I remember. You 109 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 6: could just feel the anger and his desire to do 110 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 6: something about it, but he didn't know what happened. 111 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 5: I mean, there was. 112 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 6: Profound sadness. I remember it being a parade of fucking misery. 113 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: Covering that story, There's another line in Steve's article that 114 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: really summed up that sadness, he wrote. With no bodies 115 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: to bury and no agreed upon story to frame and 116 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: help them understand their loss, they can only stare into 117 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: empty space, sentenced to always wonder what happened. 118 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 6: If they went to a grieving parenting support group, it 119 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 6: probably wouldn't work for them in the same way, because 120 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 6: those folks know what happened. 121 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: You know. 122 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 6: They had a body to bury, they had a funeral, 123 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 6: they had all those things, and this is so very different. 124 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: We talked about how Danielle and Richard's families were close 125 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: before the two went missing, and that their bond got 126 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: even stronger when they united in their search. 127 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 6: Only a very unfortunate few know what it's like to 128 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 6: have loved ones just go poof missing. And John seems 129 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 6: like he's going through basically what you guys are going 130 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 6: through Richard and Marge. 131 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: But what Steve learned and will dig into is that 132 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: these two families managed to go from one unified team 133 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: to two different families that haven't spoken in nearly twenty years. 134 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 6: Think about this. The next day, right after they discovered 135 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 6: their missing, who gets together John and Richard Senior and 136 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 6: they go on this long, all night drive to all 137 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 6: the places that they might have been. Do you think 138 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 6: about that initial instinct to band together and look for them. 139 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 5: Gosh, you'd think. 140 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 6: That would create a bond that couldn't be undone, But 141 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 6: it was completely undone. 142 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: So what happened that caused that bond to fracture? According 143 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: to Steve, it all happened the last time both families 144 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: stood side by side. 145 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 5: Good afternoon. So we're here to discuss a couple. 146 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: Different It's March twenty second, two thousand and five, roughly 147 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: four weeks after Danielle and Richard were last seen on 148 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: South Street. That's when a press conference took place right 149 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: outside the Philadelphia Police Department headquarters. That's where the patrons 150 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: and a towbrays lined up alongside Danielle's estranged husband, Joe Imbo. 151 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: In the middle was a lawyer the patrons hired. The 152 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: lawyer addressed the many local reporters who showed up that 153 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: cloudy afternoon, and he made a push for clues and 154 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: information about what happened to Danielle and Richard. Eventually, Marge 155 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: stood behind the podium. 156 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: All of our lives have been taken from us, and 157 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 3: we don't know now how to live. 158 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 7: Each day without them, without knowing where they are. 159 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: And then and Richard's daughter made a desperate plea to 160 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: find her father. It would become a SoundBite played time 161 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: and time again on news reports. 162 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 7: And what is any information about my dad? Please? 163 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 5: You just need a beck? 164 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 7: Please? 165 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: Those the words haunt me every time I hear them. 166 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: Danielle's brother, John also addressed the media. 167 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 4: Her son meets here, Richard's daughter meets him, and we're 168 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 4: just begging for anyone for any information, please. 169 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: Please, So you have both families lined up right in 170 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: front of Philadelphia police headquarters pleading to the public for help. 171 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: I guess I'm not understanding how this led to any 172 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: sort of friction between the families, and that's when Steve 173 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: clued me in. 174 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 6: I do remember that Marge supposedly confronted Joe right there. 175 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: The search for clues to what happened to Danielle and 176 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: Richard took place on foot, on TV, and online in 177 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: the days and weeks that followed. The two families coordinated 178 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: multiple search parties and appeared on numerous local and national 179 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: news programs. There were also websites asking for any information 180 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: on Danielle and Richard's whereabouts, which was something new for 181 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,119 Speaker 1: that day and age. 182 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 4: I stood outside of sporting events with flyers of Danielle 183 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 4: and Richard and hand and Matison. Forty five thousand people 184 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 4: walked outside. 185 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: That's Danielle's brother John. 186 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 4: I was in a helicopter looking for her. I searched 187 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 4: the pine barons on foot looking for anything, and it 188 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 4: just consumed me. The days just blur together, the week's 189 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 4: blair together. And then I got a phone call. 190 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: That call was from Richard's father. 191 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 4: He said, you know, hey, Johnny, I think I found 192 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 4: a way to bring the kids home. Meet me at 193 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 4: self Detectives at noon. 194 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: Self Detectives is a division of the Philadelphia Police Department. 195 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: They were just one of a handful of agencies that investigated. 196 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: Showed up with self Detectives at noon. And the next 197 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 4: thing you know, there's some attorney standing up there on 198 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 4: his soapbox, and my mother, me and Danielle's strange husband 199 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 4: Joe were standing there looking at each other like, what's 200 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 4: going on? Wait, this is a press conference. Wait a minute. 201 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 4: I don't want to time out. I don't want to 202 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 4: be on TV, like I don't know what's going on. 203 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: John was under the impression he and his family were 204 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: needed at police headquarters because Richard Senior learned something new 205 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: about what happened to Danielle and Richard, something that might 206 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: bring his sister home. And when he walked into a 207 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: press conference, he said, it felt like a slap in 208 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: the face. 209 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 4: Not a slap in my face, as this disrespect, like 210 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 4: a wake up call. 211 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: A wake up call for John that maybe the two 212 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: families were not on the same page. 213 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 4: You told me you found a way to bring the 214 00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 4: kids home. Those were your words. I just assumed he 215 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 4: knew something. They wanted us to stand immunity together as 216 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 4: two families and blame Danielle's the strange husband. And I 217 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 4: could not in good conscious too that because I did 218 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 4: not know at the time whose response. 219 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: That wasn't the first time John had heard the Patrons 220 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: blame Joe imbo. John said, it happened the first night 221 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: after Danielle and Richard vanished. 222 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 4: But at that point we thought it was an accident. 223 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 4: They're on the side of the road or they're locked up. 224 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 4: Marge Patron was like, it's Joe. 225 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 3: Joe did this. He did this, Joe. 226 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 4: Did something to my boy and Danielle. I understand emotions 227 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 4: are high. But let's worry about what's going on, John said. 228 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: Marge wanted to double down at the press conference and 229 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: blame Joe, but John refused. 230 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 4: Nobody knows what happened yet, so stop slinging insults and 231 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 4: stop pointing fingers. 232 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: Marge wasn't just pointing fingers. She was ready to slap 233 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: handcuffs on Joe. So I asked her why she was 234 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: so convinced it was him. 235 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 3: That was talked about that summer at the shore. That summer, 236 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 3: I will still relive the whole day on the beach. 237 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 3: She said, if anything ever happens to me, Joe did this. 238 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 3: That's what Danielle kept saying to me and Christine. 239 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: Marge is talking about the summer of two thousand and 240 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: four when Danielle spent time with the patrons at their shorehouse. 241 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: According to Marge, that's when Danielle shared all the drama 242 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: going on behind closed doors. She was scared to death 243 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: of him. Why exactly it was Danielle so afraid of Joe? 244 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 3: She told me that one day he came and threw 245 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 3: the hechier across the room. That's when she changed the 246 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: locks and he was not allowed in her apartment. 247 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 8: Ever again. 248 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, Joe told Philadelphia Magazine that incident never happened. 249 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: There was another time, Marge said, Joe freaked out while 250 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: driving with Little Joe. A truck passed by that looked 251 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: like Richard's, and Little Joe got excited and then pointed 252 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: at it. 253 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 3: And Little Joe said rich rich rich and he went nuts. 254 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: Marge said. Joe got upset, called Danielle and yelled. 255 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 3: At her, what does he saying rich rich rich for? 256 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: According to Marge, Danielle shared that story the night before 257 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: she disappeared. It was at the dinner at Chicky and Pete's. 258 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: Danielle told us that that night, I said, oh yeah, 259 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 3: because he used to put them in the back of 260 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 3: the truck and jump in home in this car. He 261 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 3: was pissed that night. I told all this Tovito in 262 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: the very beginning. 263 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: What was going through your mind is she was telling 264 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: you this. 265 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 3: I'm horrified for her, horrified for her. She said, That's 266 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 3: why I tell my lawyer everything. That's why she documents everything. 267 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 3: You know that he's not allowed in my house. I 268 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: changed the locks. I have to meet in a public 269 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: place with the baby. 270 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: So Danielle had a lawyer. 271 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, she told her lawyer. It was documented all 272 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 3: the times that she felt threatened by him. 273 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: I knew Christine and Danielle were close, especially at the 274 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: time of her disappearance. They both were going through a divorce, 275 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: so they bonded over that shared experience. I asked her 276 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: if she remembers her friend being afraid of Joe. 277 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 9: The cops asked me that too, do you think she 278 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,479 Speaker 9: was scared of him? And I remember thinking, in hindsight, 279 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 9: only because I know Danielle and she was a tough person, 280 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 9: like she would stand up for herself. I never looked 281 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 9: at her to be afraid of anything. 282 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: Obviously, nineteen years has passed between then and now. But 283 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: then I thought she changed her locks. They let her 284 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: change your locks. 285 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: I went through a divorce. 286 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 9: I was never told to write down anything, so I 287 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 9: mean the lawyer told her to document every single thing 288 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 9: that happened, even if she thought it was minimal, write 289 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 9: it down, keep notes, and she did, like she wrote 290 00:16:59,360 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 9: down everything. 291 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 2: I never changed my locks. 292 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 9: I never thought about changing my locks. So then I thought, well, 293 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 9: I'm not afraid of my ex husband like I don't know, maybe. 294 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: She was, I asked Vido if you found any evidence 295 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: of physical abuse in Danielle and Joe's relationship. I even 296 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: asked him about the high chair incident. 297 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 10: That was an incident that was really to me that 298 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 10: I believe was pretty commonly known because a number of people. 299 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 7: Talked about it openly. 300 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 10: But other than that, I was not able to put 301 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 10: any other context to it other than a chair was 302 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 10: thrown in anger. The bottom line was I did not 303 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 10: uncover any physical abuse one way or the other. 304 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: We heard Danielle was documenting so much about what was 305 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: going on with her marriage leading up to the divorce, 306 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: all at the advice of her attorney. I needed to 307 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: find Danielle's lawyer, and we certainly went to great lengths. 308 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,719 Speaker 1: Ben and I made multiple attempts to reach her. 309 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 6: The person you're trying to reach is not available the tone. 310 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 11: Please record your message. 311 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 3: When you have finished recording, you may hang up. 312 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 11: My name is Ben Setterman. I'm a producer with Glass Podcasts. 313 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 11: I wanted to see if you would be willing to 314 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 11: speak with me about a story of one of your 315 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 11: former clients, Danielle Imbo. If you could give me a callback, 316 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 11: I would really appreciate the opportunity for us to connect. 317 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 3: Thank you. 318 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: We located her law office and dropped by to introduce ourselves. 319 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: No, Hi, the law firm is that upstairs. 320 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: No, there's no law firm here any longer. 321 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: No, it's no longer in business. 322 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: I even drove to her home. Nobody's there, but there's 323 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: no mailbox, which is very strange. I left a note 324 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: with my contact info, but Danielle's lawyer never responded, not 325 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: to one single message, letter or knock on her door. 326 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: The other thing I couldn't get my hands on was 327 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: a full, unedited version of that press conference. To my 328 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: team's credit, they contacted every local and national media outlet 329 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: that covered it, but none of them claimed to still 330 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: have it. According to Steve Volk's article, Marge confronted Joe 331 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: at the press conference. So I asked Marge if she 332 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: remembered doing that. She said she didn't. 333 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: We had a lawyer at the time who said, don't 334 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 3: approach him, don't go near him, and I didn't. It's 335 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 3: the only time I ever saw him. 336 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: I also asked Richard's daughter ang about that day, but 337 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: she couldn't confirm Marge's confrontation. 338 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 7: You would have to ask her because it's a blur then, 339 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 7: but I feel like she may have yelled at him. 340 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 7: I mean, that was like such just a wild time. 341 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: The one thing Ange said she clearly remembers was Joe's demeanor. 342 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 7: There wasn't a tear, like, there wasn't any emotion coming 343 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 7: from him. 344 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: Joe did not address the media at the press conference. 345 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 7: Why aren't you like absolutely destraw it, like, why aren't 346 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 7: you a mess right now? 347 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 5: And he wasn't. 348 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: I will say I've seen snippets of the press conference, 349 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: but I did not see Marge confront Joe. If she did, 350 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: maybe it was after the cameras stopped rolling. There was 351 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: something else I wanted to know more about. In the 352 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: last episode, Christine said Joe had been calling Richard at 353 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: the bakery. I asked Marge what she remembered about that. 354 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 3: It was the day before Thanksgiving. We were totally busy 355 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: in the bakery, and he must have called it twenty 356 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 3: seven times, threatening him with a baseball beat, and Richard said, 357 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 3: you're getting divorced. I'm not going out with a married woman, 358 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 3: you know. And if you don't want me to go, 359 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 3: tell her. 360 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: Marge told the Philadelphia Daily News about these threats in 361 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: June of two thousand and five. She said Joe and 362 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: Richard never met face to face, and her biggest regret 363 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: is that they never reported those threats to the police. 364 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 3: Why didn't we document that to say, you know, you're 365 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: just calling and threatening. But she did tell her lawyer that, 366 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 3: so that was documented that she told her lawyer that. 367 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: As FBI agent Fto Rosselli shared in the last episode, 368 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: he was aware of the alleged phone call and threat. 369 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 10: We did find in our investigation the work conversations between 370 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 10: the two there was at least one phone call explicit 371 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 10: phone call exchange. There was reference to a threat made 372 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 10: about a baseball bat. I don't know how much to 373 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 10: put into that, because emotions were high, and when emotions 374 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 10: are high, embellishments are made. That could have been an embellishment. 375 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 10: It could have been just a misinterpretation of what somebody 376 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 10: was told. 377 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 7: But I did hear that. 378 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: Yes, Marge wasn't alone when it came to Joe's involvement. 379 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: Every member of the Patrone family told me the same thing. 380 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 3: It was Joe, and though Joe did this, everything pointed 381 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 3: to him. 382 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: And then there's Richard's ex girlfriend, Julie. She's the mother 383 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: of his daughter Ange. Both Julie and Ange shared how 384 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: these threats affected Richard. 385 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 5: Rich was so scared that that evening out to dinner. 386 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: That dinner Julie is talking about happened right before he 387 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: went missing. 388 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 7: I would say it was probably about three weeks before 389 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 7: he went missing. We went to this little Italian restaurant 390 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 7: in South Philly. 391 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: Richard wore his heart on his sleeve, and that's how 392 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: they both knew something was up. 393 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 5: You could tell like something was weigh and heavy on them. 394 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: They both remember Richard sharing what was happening between him 395 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: and Joe. 396 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 12: He's telling us about how crazy Joe is, you know, 397 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 12: and that he's scared, that he's scared for his life, 398 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 12: and that he's done with Danielle. 399 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 7: My mom was concerned. I mean, I knew more of 400 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 7: what was going on with my dad and Danielle and 401 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 7: Joe more than my mom did, so I think he 402 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 7: was also taking my mom out to fill her and 403 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 7: more on what was going when. 404 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 12: I mean, he was just saying that the X was 405 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 12: really causing problems for him, and he told us if 406 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 12: something was to happen, it was her husband. 407 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 7: If something happens to me, it was Joean them, it's 408 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 7: like one of those things where you're like, you know, 409 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 7: you asked him like, well are you okay? Are you worried? 410 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 7: And he's like yeah, Like but it's just getting out 411 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 7: of hand and like the threats now are getting serious, 412 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 7: and I just want you guys to be aware of it. 413 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: Julian An said they were both relieved to hear that 414 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: Danielle ended things with Richard. 415 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 5: I was just like, well, thank god, you know, you 416 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 5: broke up with her. 417 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 12: You're not seeing her anymore, like you know, you need 418 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 12: to get that out of your life type of situation. 419 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: It came as a surprise to Julie that just a 420 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: few weeks later Richard ended up with Danielle and then vanished, went. 421 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 12: Out to dinner maybe in January, and then now it's 422 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 12: February and this is happening. 423 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 5: It was too much of a coincidence. 424 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: Vito said he was also aware of that story. 425 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 10: Both Richard's baby's mom Julie and their daughter Angela. They 426 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 10: did mention that Richard said, you know that if anything 427 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 10: happened to me, it was the husband, meaning Joe Wimbo. 428 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: Four different law enforcement agencies investigated Danielle and Richard's disappearance, 429 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: and since there was not one piece of physical evidence, 430 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't easy. One of the detectives was quoted as saying, 431 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: we don't believe in flying saucers, so where did they go? 432 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 10: At this point, the emotions are very high. You have 433 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 10: two families, their daughter and son are missing, and people 434 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 10: are trying to find answers. 435 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: That Special Agent Feto Rosselli, once he and the FBI 436 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: got involved, that pushed the number to five, five different 437 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: agencies investigating Danielle and Richard's disappearance. 438 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 10: I was somewhat familiar with the case at the time 439 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 10: because there was a lot of finger pointing, and there 440 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 10: was quite a bit of animosity between the two families, 441 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 10: and there are a lot of people voicing their opinions 442 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 10: that just kind of steamroll. That's the investigation kept grinding 443 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 10: on with no results. 444 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: It was no secret to Veto that the Patrons had 445 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: already named Joe Imbo their number one. 446 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 5: Suspect in this case. 447 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 10: I know there's a lot of effort going towards the 448 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 10: estranged husband, Joe Imbo. We learned earlier on that there 449 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 10: was some verbal jousting between Richard Patron and Joe. 450 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 7: Imbo over the phone. 451 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 10: Statistically, that's the first place you would look when you 452 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 10: have the estranged wife missing, and that's what the police 453 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 10: were doing. 454 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: I should mention that we've reached out to Joe for 455 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: comment and to hear his side of the story. At 456 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: the time of this recording, Joe has not agreed to 457 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: talk with us on the record, but he has agreed 458 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: to give us a statement. We have yet to receive it. 459 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: But let's talk about Danielle's family, Theoteau Rais, and how 460 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: they felt about the patrons blaming Joe. 461 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 4: Statistically, it's always a spouse. I mean, Vido told me that, 462 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 4: so John, They're going through a nasty divorce, a custody battle, 463 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 4: and I have to pay child support, so gain it 464 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 4: would only make sense. 465 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: And what did you think about Joe's involvement. Was that 466 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: something that ever crossed your mind? 467 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I can tell you it doesn't look 468 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 4: good for Joe, like the whole cadence, from the time 469 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 4: he left to the Super Bowl to the time he 470 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 4: came back, and you know, threatening Richard on the phone. 471 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 4: And if I was an outsider looking in, I'd be like, 472 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 4: how are you not locking this guy? 473 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: Up right now. 474 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: But John is not an outsider. He's been there since 475 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: Danielle first met and started dating Joe. He was there 476 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: for Danielle when Joe announced he was leaving her for 477 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: another woman, and John was also there when Joe tried 478 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: to win Danielle back. 479 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 4: I think, deep down inside he always loved her. He 480 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 4: just resented the fact that she domesticated him. But I've 481 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 4: never saw that evil side of him that he would 482 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 4: want to take someone's life, especially Danielle's life. 483 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 1: What did you mean when you said Joe resented the 484 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: fact that Danielle domesticated him. 485 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 4: You know, I don't want this house in suburbia and 486 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 4: the two kids in the white pick of fence. And 487 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 4: it was never like fully satisfied. He hated this quote 488 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 4: suburbia life. And he would always say to Danielle when 489 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 4: we get married, we're moving to San Diego. She would 490 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 4: pacify him, Okay, whatever you want, whatever, but deep down 491 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 4: she would never leave her family. We believed in roots 492 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 4: and family and being together, and he just didn't come 493 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 4: from that type of background. 494 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: John's wife, Jody, said Joe longed for that surfer lifestyle. 495 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 8: He always said he wanted to have a taco stand 496 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 8: in San Diego on the beach and just sell tacos 497 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 8: during the day and surf. 498 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: After Danielle got pregnant, Jody said she noticed a change 499 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: in Joe, but she said it was nothing that would 500 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: be a motive for murder. 501 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 8: He seemed like a little more moody. I guess I 502 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 8: would say, like not as happy as he was in 503 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 8: the beginning. 504 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: When Joe ran off with another woman, John said Joe 505 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: shifted the responsibility of their marriage ending onto Danielle. 506 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 4: He blamed everything on her. I never wanted to be 507 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 4: a suburban father. I never wanted to be a suburban husband. 508 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 4: I want to live on the beach and serf. You know, 509 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 4: you're a grown man and you're trying to chase what 510 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 4: you did when you were a teenager. 511 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: So why do you think Joe wanted to get back 512 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: together with Danielle. 513 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 4: He was getting a lot of pressure from his family 514 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 4: to reconcile because they all loved Danielle and they just 515 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 4: were all on her side throughout this whole thing. So 516 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 4: that's when he started falling and trying to reconcile and 517 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 4: get back together. But I don't think he was interested 518 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 4: in reconciling or that was something he really wanted it 519 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 4: deep down. 520 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: According to John, it was all a big show for 521 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: Joe's mom. 522 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 4: You're pacifying your mother so you can call her and say, Mom, 523 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 4: I called her. I tried to get her back. I 524 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 4: asked her to take me back. She's just not taking 525 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 4: me back. I think it was as long as Danielle 526 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 4: was home by herself with the baby and he was 527 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 4: free to do what he wants, everything was fine. 528 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: While listening to John and Jody, I couldn't help but 529 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: think about Danielle and Joe's son. Let's say Joe did 530 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: have something to do with Danielle's disappearance. Well, if that 531 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: was the case, Joe wouldn't be spending his days slinging 532 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: tacos and surfing. No, he'd be taking care of little 533 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: Joe and playing the role of mom and dad. And 534 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: that's what actually happened. After Danielle first disappeared, Joe moved 535 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: back into Danielle's condo for a few months to take 536 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: care of his son. 537 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 8: Obviously, Joe did something wrong, you know, for cheating on Danielle. 538 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: Do I believe that it's his fault that she's missing? 539 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 8: No, because a million people get divorced, and I don't 540 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 8: believe because they were going to get a divorce is 541 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 8: the reason why she went missing. 542 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: Back in June of two thousand and five, Joe told 543 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Daily News that he was tired of all 544 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: the accusations that he had something to do with Danielle's disappearance. 545 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: In that article, he said, I have nothing to hide. 546 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: I know I had no involvement in this. And until 547 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: the day Danielle disappeared, Joe said he was actively trying 548 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: to get back with Danielle. But quote, it wasn't happening. 549 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: End quote. That was why Joe said he called Richard 550 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: two or three times to tell Richard to quote back 551 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: off until the divorce end quote. 552 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 8: I hear about the threats that Joe made to rich 553 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 8: at the bakery and all that kind of stuff. Yes, 554 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 8: do I believe the whole conversation. 555 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 7: No. 556 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: Jody and John felt differently about the threats that Marge 557 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: claimed happened in the weeks leading up to Danielle and 558 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: Richard's disappearance. 559 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 3: She told me that one day he came and threw 560 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 3: the high chair croaster room. 561 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: The time Little Joe allegedly pointed out a truck that 562 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: looked like Richard's, which upset Joe. 563 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 5: What does he say? 564 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: And rich rich rich for. 565 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 3: And he went mutch. 566 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: And then there were the alleged phone calls to Richard 567 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: at the bakery. 568 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 3: It was the day before Thanksgiving, threatening him with a 569 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 3: baseball man. 570 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 8: I don't believe all those stories because none of those 571 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 8: stories came from us, about throwing the high chair, about 572 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 8: the phone call, all that kind of stuff. Danielle never 573 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 8: told me any of them. Like if she came to 574 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 8: me and said, I really fear for my life and 575 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 8: I'm worried about little Joe, we would have been at 576 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 8: her door, were in five minutes and like bringing her 577 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 8: here and being like, nothing will. 578 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: Happen to you here. Vito confirmed a report of a 579 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: heated phone conversation between Richard and Joe, and he knew 580 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: about the high chair incident, and this is where everything 581 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,959 Speaker 1: gets turned upside down, and that June two thousand and 582 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: five Philadelphia Daily News article, Joe said it was Richard 583 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: who threatened him during one of their phone calls. Joe 584 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: claimed he even provided a tape recording of that phone 585 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: call to the police, but Vito says he does not 586 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: have a copy of those recordings. So who do you 587 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: believe in this case? John and Jody said they believe 588 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: Joe Imbo was an adulterer, not a murderer. 589 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 8: I truly, in my heart of hearts, hate him for 590 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 8: leaving her, but do not believe that he had anything 591 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,959 Speaker 8: to do with this whatsoever. 592 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. Joe Imbo was never charged or 593 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: formally named a suspect, although that seems to come with 594 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: a giant asterisk. 595 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 10: And everybody is a suspect up to this point that 596 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 10: I haven't discounted, and I haven't discounted a. 597 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 5: Lot of people. 598 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: According to the FBI, Joe had a rock solid alibi 599 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: for the night Danielle and Richard disappeared. 600 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 10: Joe Imbo was not in Philadelphia on the evening of 601 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 10: February nineteenth. 602 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: If Joe had an alibi, why does Richard's family still 603 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: think he did it? Why hasn't law enforcement publicly cleared him? 604 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 4: You know, it all looks bad. If someone told me that, 605 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 4: I'd be like guilty. And if you can prove to 606 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 4: me that it's him, I'll be the first one that 607 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 4: drag is Zias down the jill. 608 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: That's next time on there and Gone. If you have 609 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron, 610 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip line at two 611 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: on five five four six eight four seven seven, or 612 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: you can reach out to the show in our team 613 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: by email at Varren gaunpod at gmail dot com. That's 614 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: There and Gone pod at gmail dot com. Thank you 615 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: so much for listening. One way for you to show 616 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. 617 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: Don't forget to rate and review because five star reviews 618 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: go a long way. A big thank you to all 619 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: of our listeners. Therein Gon is a production of Glass Podcasts, 620 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. 621 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass, Ben Fetterman, 622 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: and me Andrea Gunning. It's hosted and written by me 623 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetnerman. 624 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans. 625 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Kristin Melcurrie. Research by Mason Klinder, 626 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: Anna Hamilton and Bella Riki. Our iHeart team is Ali 627 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, 628 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: additional editing support by Nico Ruco. 629 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 7: Thereon. 630 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: Gonn's theme and original compositions composed by Oliver Bains and 631 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: Darry Macaulay of nousert Music Library provided by my Music 632 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: Special thanks to both the Patrone and A Towbray families. 633 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 634 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts