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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger.

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Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love

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Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and eighty three,

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Speaker 1: airing in the middle of January of twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be interviewing Dana K. White, who is

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Speaker 1: known online as a slob comes Clean. We talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about that wording slob. Neither of us love it,

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Speaker 1: but that is what she is known at now. But

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Speaker 1: she's very much into accessible organizing and decluttering, and indeed

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Speaker 1: her book titles are definitely oriented that way. She's got

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Speaker 1: one called Organizing for the Rest of Us, another that

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Speaker 1: is Decluttering at the Speed of Life. And finally, I

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Speaker 1: think this might be my favorite title, how to manage

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Speaker 1: your home without losing your mind. And lots of people

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Speaker 1: love Dana because she's not going to show you the

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Speaker 1: Instagram perfect sort of this is what it should be.

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Speaker 1: She also assumes you have a million things going on

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Speaker 1: in your life, so you can't take all your possessions

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Speaker 1: out and put them on the floor and this immediately

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Speaker 1: be done with it. She also makes it clear you

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Speaker 1: are not going to be done with decluttering forever, so like,

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Speaker 1: put that thought right out of your mind. It's going

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Speaker 1: to keep happening. So I really enjoyed talking with her. Sarah,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious you have made many decluttering goals in your life.

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Speaker 1: Are there particular clutter issues that you think are an

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Speaker 1: issue for you personally? Well more for our household? So

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Speaker 1: the kids' rooms are a continual source of I just

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Speaker 1: never feel done, And I guess I wouldn't care that much,

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Speaker 1: except I feel like what happens is like there are

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Speaker 1: certain toys or items that the only purpose they seem

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Speaker 1: to have is to make a mess. It's like two

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Speaker 1: minutes are spent playing with them, and like, yet I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've cleaned them up eighty times, And I

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Speaker 1: just would like my life to have less of those

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Speaker 1: things in it and some of the kids rooms. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: my husband sometimes starts projects and doesn't finish them. Now

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Speaker 1: to his credit, there are certain projects that I would

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Speaker 1: probably never start on my own, so it's good that

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Speaker 1: he starts it, but then the messy middle might linger

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Speaker 1: for a long time. For example, our garage started getting

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Speaker 1: cleared out, and a bunch of toys and our kids

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Speaker 1: sleep away camp gear are in our bedroom and have

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Speaker 1: been there for three months now. I need his help

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Speaker 1: to complete the project, but I can't blame him because

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Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't even started the project on my own.

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Speaker 1: So yes, those kind of things are a pay point.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, there are certain surfaces in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: that I just want to be clear, like just I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like it makes me feel better when they're clear.

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Speaker 1: And yet they just suck up papers and kid detroitus

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Speaker 1: like there's a vacuum incorporated into them. So those are

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Speaker 1: my trouble zone. Yeah, yeah, I'm definitely I like to

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Speaker 1: have the kitchen counter clear. I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 1: I like to have it be clear. That just makes

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Speaker 1: me feel like everything is more under control. Of course,

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Speaker 1: that's where people dump stuff because it's very central, right,

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Speaker 1: that's why people dump it there. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: do my best to help everyone move stuff along if

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Speaker 1: things go to their place. And then Michael bless him

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Speaker 1: will get the big idea that like, let's put lots

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Speaker 1: of candy balls on the kitchen counter, like for snacks

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Speaker 1: for the people. I'm like, no, no, not that, not that.

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Speaker 1: It's this one spot that I want to So I

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Speaker 1: moved like the little snack bulls over to the side,

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Speaker 1: covered right so people could grab stuff from there. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's a good spot for them. I

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Speaker 1: think it should be more central, like moving up the No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you're not getting it anyway. But you know, we still

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Speaker 1: have boxes from the move. It's just it's never urgent

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Speaker 1: the stuff that's in it. We clearly don't need the

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Speaker 1: move having happened a year ago. So that's a project

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Speaker 1: that probably needs to happen at some point. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm scared of the messy middle we talk about, Dana

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Speaker 1: and I talk about that that. You know, especially when

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Speaker 1: you do have a complex life, things happen, and so

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Speaker 1: you can't get all this time to organize, and so

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Speaker 1: then if you wind up with piles, you feel even

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Speaker 1: worse than if if it was you know, you never

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Speaker 1: started in the first place. People should check out so

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Speaker 1: Dana K. White has a lot of excellent YouTube videos

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Speaker 1: where she talks through different cleaning and organizing techniques. So

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Speaker 1: if one of your goals for twenty twenty three is

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Speaker 1: to have a neater home, doesn't have to be magazine perfect,

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Speaker 1: but if your goal is just to have a more functional,

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Speaker 1: needer home. She has lots of easily digestible tips, usually

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Speaker 1: about ten minute videos that she's very engaging, so I

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Speaker 1: definitely check out listening to her. My favorite YouTube is

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Speaker 1: planner YouTube and organized YouTube, so I'm super excited to

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Speaker 1: check that out. And on a related note, Best Laid

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Speaker 1: Plans is now on YouTube, so if you're looking for

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Speaker 1: yet another source of distraction, you can go ahead and

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Speaker 1: check that out. After you've watched all of Dana's organizing videos,

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Speaker 1: you can check out my planner stack for twenty twenty three. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Sarah is now on YouTube putting out content in her

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Speaker 1: new life as a content creator. While she was doing

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Speaker 1: this forever, but now that she's branched out and doing

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Speaker 1: more things, so definitely check out Sarah on YouTube as well,

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Speaker 1: and in the meantime, here we are interviewing Dana K.

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Speaker 1: White on organizing for the rest of us. Well, Sarah

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Speaker 1: and I are delighted to welcome Dana K. White to

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Speaker 1: the program. So, Dana, can you introduce yourself to our listeners.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dana K. White. We were just talking about why

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Speaker 1: I put the K in there. I put the K

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Speaker 1: in there because there's a guy named Dana White who

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Speaker 1: is not me, but he's super famous. He's the UFC guy.

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Speaker 1: So like a lot of times husbands will be like data,

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Speaker 1: why oh, she talks about that data White meaning and organizing.

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Speaker 1: So I'm the one who talks about decluttering primarily home

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Speaker 1: maintenance stuff like that. But it all comes from the

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Speaker 1: perspective of this was the thing I was terrible at,

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Speaker 1: Like my house was a total disaster, and so I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a writer, and back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine, I basically made a compromise because I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: start writing because my house was such a disaster. I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, no no, no, I got to get this

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Speaker 1: figured out first. And so it was like my compromise

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Speaker 1: to figure out my house. I thought I would make

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Speaker 1: it perfect in a couple of months and then write

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Speaker 1: about things I felt qualified to write about. And it

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Speaker 1: is now much past two thousand and nine and I

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Speaker 1: am still writing about the same thing. But it's because

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Speaker 1: I've learned a lot. I've learned how to keep my

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Speaker 1: house under control. I've also learned that this is part

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Speaker 1: of my personality for it to be a struggle for me,

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Speaker 1: and trying to use traditional decluttering and organizing advice was

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Speaker 1: what was causing the problem. Like it was never going

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Speaker 1: to work for me to do it the way that

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Speaker 1: other people did it, because that's just that's not how

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Speaker 1: my brain works. So I found what does work for me,

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Speaker 1: and this is what I write about now. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: your online persona, I mean, when people aren't googling the

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Speaker 1: UFC guy you colors a slob comes clean. I'm very

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Speaker 1: curious about that word slob. I mean, what do you

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Speaker 1: mean by that? Like, what was the state of chaos

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Speaker 1: in your life with regards to your stuff. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I have to be clear that I hate that word,

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Speaker 1: like I didn't want to use that word. But again,

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, this was supposed to be temporary. I

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Speaker 1: had made up a fake name I was calling myself

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Speaker 1: no NI, which is short for anonymous. I made that up,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I had no intention of anyone knowing

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Speaker 1: it was me. And I used the word slob because

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Speaker 1: that's the word that came to me in this moment

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Speaker 1: where I had this idea to do this temporary thing

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Speaker 1: to keep myself on track, and so I couldn't think

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Speaker 1: of another word. I was wanting to be a writer,

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Speaker 1: but I couldn't think of another word, you know. But

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Speaker 1: I'm ultimately glad I used that word because, first of all,

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Speaker 1: you know, even though yes, I was using a fake name,

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Speaker 1: I had already used the worst possible word, right Like,

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Speaker 1: I had admitted this thing that I had always I

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Speaker 1: had always said, but I'm not a slob. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a slob. And I was like, okay, I've already said slob.

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Speaker 1: Now there's no point in trying to pretend. And so

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Speaker 1: it forced me kind of into being completely honest about

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Speaker 1: what my house was like. But it also ultimately helped

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Speaker 1: me as people identified I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: how my brain works. That was like, oh, okay, I

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Speaker 1: am a creative person and I really struggle in my house.

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Speaker 1: A lot of creative people also struggle in their house.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that before I started, but I went, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is part of who I am anyway. But as

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Speaker 1: far as what my house was like, it's not like

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Speaker 1: I couldn't have people over. I just needed two weeks

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Speaker 1: to get ready. So I would spend the first week decluttering,

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Speaker 1: which I wasn't actually decluttering. I was stuff shifting. I

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Speaker 1: was shoving everything in the master bedroom because that was

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Speaker 1: the door that I could lock. And then I would

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Speaker 1: spend the second week cleaning, because I you know, even

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Speaker 1: though I like things clean, and I couldn't get to

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Speaker 1: all my surfaces because they were covered in stuff. So

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Speaker 1: I generally had a room in my house that was

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Speaker 1: completely unusable, and it kind of shifted from place to

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Speaker 1: place because I would try to get that room under control,

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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't actually declutter. I'd just moved the things around,

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Speaker 1: and so then another space would become completely unusable. And

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Speaker 1: my house as a whole was consistently very very very

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Speaker 1: embarrassingly messy, like I did not want to have people over.

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Speaker 1: When I say two weeks, I actually mean that, like

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Speaker 1: it's it's funny and I say ha ha ha, but

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Speaker 1: I literally would pretend I wasn't home if somebody ring

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Speaker 1: the doorbell, you know, like it was that bad. I

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Speaker 1: was that embarrassed of my house, you know. So my

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Speaker 1: dining room, which was the first room that people saw,

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Speaker 1: the table was generally completely covered. The floor had stuff

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Speaker 1: all over it. You know, it wasn't a foot deep

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Speaker 1: like it was in that one room that was completely

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Speaker 1: out of control. But it was embarrassing, very embarrassing to me.

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Speaker 1: Although that word embarrassing is interesting because that's social judgment, right.

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Speaker 1: Embarrassment is an emotion that is coming from ways that

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Speaker 1: are different with how we wish to be perceived versus

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Speaker 1: how we think we are being perceived. I mean, did

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Speaker 1: it occurred to you at some point in there that

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Speaker 1: maybe it's like, well, I could have people over anyway,

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Speaker 1: I mean, as long as they sit on a chair. No, no, okay,

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Speaker 1: it was bad enough that I have come a long way. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've come a long way in that my house is

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Speaker 1: under control. It's still like my kitchen right now, it's messy.

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Speaker 1: But if somebody said they were coming over, give me

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Speaker 1: three minutes and I would have it back in our

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Speaker 1: But it's nowhere near where it was back then. So

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Speaker 1: it's been what I've been doing this for thirteen years

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Speaker 1: or something. My house is very very changed. I have

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Speaker 1: also changed in my perspective of understanding how important it

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Speaker 1: is to have people in my house even when it's

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Speaker 1: not perfect, you know what I mean. Like, I have

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Speaker 1: changed a lot in that and so I now am like,

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Speaker 1: come on in, it does not have to be perfect.

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Speaker 1: And yet this place that I was at, somebody telling me,

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Speaker 1: and I heard that many times, like oh, just show

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Speaker 1: people how you really live. And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: then if you're saying that, you don't understand what it's

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Speaker 1: actually like. Like it was that bad, I mean to

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Speaker 1: the point where the thought would cross my mind. I

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Speaker 1: had young children at the time. The thought would cross

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Speaker 1: my mind that on the wrong day, the wrong person

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Speaker 1: coming in. It made me concerned that someone would report me,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, that maybe me being dramatic,

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Speaker 1: but those were thoughts that crossed my mind, you know.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't I could get it to where I

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Speaker 1: could have people over. But again it was basically shoving

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Speaker 1: tons and tons of stuff in the master bedroom, which

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Speaker 1: meant that the master bedroom. I mean, it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: probably the last several years that I've felt comfortable just

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Speaker 1: leaving that door open, partly just from kind of I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say trauma response, but you know, like

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Speaker 1: a response to like, oh no, no, that door has

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Speaker 1: to always be closed. But because that was the dumping

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Speaker 1: ground all the time, and so it always had piles

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Speaker 1: of things that needed to be dealt with. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of listeners who can relate to this,

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Speaker 1: and one of the ways we want to do this

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Speaker 1: episode just to give people sort of practical tips, right

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Speaker 1: because you know, here Dana has reached rock bottom with

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Speaker 1: her you know, stuff everywhere, feeling like, you know, her

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Speaker 1: house might be reported or something, and yet you came

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Speaker 1: up with very practical ways to start making things better.

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Speaker 1: So we were not doing a full Marie condo get

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Speaker 1: everything out of the house, I don't know, on the

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Speaker 1: front lawn or something, and we ditched ninety percent of it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like the opposite of that, but yeah, they like

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Speaker 1: the opposite of that. In fact, before we go to

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Speaker 1: our ad break, I want to talk with the one

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Speaker 1: of the first things you tell people to do, which

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Speaker 1: is to do your dishes. Now, maybe you can back up,

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Speaker 1: because I heard this and I was like, do people

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Speaker 1: not do their dishes every day? Like, maybe you could

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that. Yeah, I think that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who don't do their dishes

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Speaker 1: every day. So here's basically what it came down to

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Speaker 1: is I'm an overthinker. So I would look at a

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Speaker 1: few dishes in the sink, and if it even registered

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Speaker 1: that they were there, my thought process was, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: am a busy person. I've got a lot going on,

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Speaker 1: and I I don't have time to stop and do the

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Speaker 1: dishes right now. I'm gonna wait till there's enough to

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Speaker 1: really make it worth my time. Well, the next time

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Speaker 1: it even registered in my brain that there were dishes,

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Speaker 1: it was up over the top of the sink, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, ugh, I'm a really busy person. I

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Speaker 1: don't have time to do all those dishes. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: have to wait until I have time. Well, the next

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Speaker 1: time it ever registered, they were covering all the counters

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Speaker 1: and I was watching a single fork to be able

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Speaker 1: to eat dinner, and it was like between the two

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Speaker 1: inches of water between the bottom of the faucet and

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Speaker 1: the top of the dishes. I mean like that that

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Speaker 1: I call it slow vision. You know, because like I

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Speaker 1: don't see incremental mess I see perfectly clean. I see

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Speaker 1: overwhelmingly messy, but I don't see what's happening in between.

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Speaker 1: But I knew that whenever I said I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get my house clean, I started in the kitchen. Because

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Speaker 1: the kitchen was always a disaster, it makes sense to

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Speaker 1: start in there. And then it would take me hours

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Speaker 1: to get through the kitchen, and then I would never

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Speaker 1: get to the rest of the house. And so when

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Speaker 1: I was at rock bottom and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what to do, I just said, I

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Speaker 1: know that people whose houses are under control don't have

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Speaker 1: kitchens like mine, Like their kitchens are under control if

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Speaker 1: you randomly stop by their house. So I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to try to keep the dishes fin and doing

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Speaker 1: that helped me realize, like, only after doing them every

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Speaker 1: day did I realize one day's worth of dishes only

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Speaker 1: takes like ten minutes. I didn't know that because in

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Speaker 1: my brain I thought doing the dishes is an hour's

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Speaker 1: long task because I was catching up, and so if

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Speaker 1: I did the math, then it was like, well, if

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Speaker 1: it takes five hours to do the dishes. After five days,

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Speaker 1: then it takes an hour every day to do dishes, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's just logic, Except that's not how it works, right like,

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Speaker 1: ten minutes to do one day's worth of dishes, But

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Speaker 1: then the second day, if I put it off, takes

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Speaker 1: at least an hour, and then the third day takes

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Speaker 1: hours because I now I'm having to shift all these

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Speaker 1: things around and move it, you know, So it's not

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Speaker 1: just a simple process anymore. But I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: until I was doing them every day. So once I

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Speaker 1: started doing them every day, I was like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is how people do. You know. It's a quick little task.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't know that because I always put it off.

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Speaker 1: Got it? So do your dishes every day. That is

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Speaker 1: the first first step, and you're to take a whole house. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Well it does. Well, we'll take a quick

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Speaker 1: ad break and we will be right back talking about

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Speaker 1: more tips to have a neater house in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, we are back with Dana ky White,

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Speaker 1: who is the author of several books on cleaning and decluttering.

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Speaker 1: She is known as a slob comes clean online. Not

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Speaker 1: so sure about the words slob. Neither of us are.

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Speaker 1: But that was how I have a brand, at how

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Speaker 1: it began at the beginning. So we're going to do

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Speaker 1: the dishes every day, and once we have those sort

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Speaker 1: of little things to keep things from getting out of control,

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Speaker 1: it sort of has a flywheel effect, right, yeah, it does.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like when you go back to the reason

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Speaker 1: I started with dishes is that I knew I always

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Speaker 1: started in my kitchen and it always took me hours

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Speaker 1: in my kitchen. Well, once the dishes and therefore the

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Speaker 1: kitchen were not out of control anymore, then it's like

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Speaker 1: I could move on to the next thing so much

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Speaker 1: more quickly. And so because of that change, that's where

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Speaker 1: my house really started to change. And also is a

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Speaker 1: thing too that the person who's overwhelmed and has never

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Speaker 1: felt successful in this before, like I was, it gave

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Speaker 1: me a place to start because before I would do

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Speaker 1: a little bit here, do a little bit there, while

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Speaker 1: that didn't and change my house and so okay, well

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Speaker 1: better come up with a new plan. But knowing, oh no,

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Speaker 1: the dishes, if I can just keep the dishes done,

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Speaker 1: it gave me a place whenever I felt overwhelmed, just

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Speaker 1: do the dishes. And there's something about that that really,

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Speaker 1: you know, bled into the to the rest of the

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Speaker 1: house exactly exactly. So another tip that you share, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, she shares these great short YouTube videos,

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Speaker 1: So if you are looking for motivation to get your

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Speaker 1: house under control, you should check out Dana kay White's youtubes.

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Speaker 1: They are awesome. One of your tips you had and

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Speaker 1: that struck out as me, is declutter your dishes until

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Speaker 1: they fit in the cabinet, which is really kind of

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Speaker 1: part of a larger theme of cabinet space or containers. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I wonder if you could talk about this concept

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Speaker 1: of the container defining the amount, because I think that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty revolutionary concept for a lot of people too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so this is one of those core well, it really

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Speaker 1: is the core concept of everything that I teach, because

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Speaker 1: it was transformative for me and for my home and

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Speaker 1: how I saw my stuff and ultimately every decluttering question

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Speaker 1: that I am asked, my answer starts out with will

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Speaker 1: it all comes down to the container concept, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the thing. So what I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about is I was decluttering one day and I was

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Speaker 1: talking to myself because that's what I do, and I

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Speaker 1: said the word container, and I was like, wait, contain.

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Speaker 1: I always thought of containers as the thing that organized

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Speaker 1: people like, they buy lots of them, they make their

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Speaker 1: house look pretty. I would buy containers because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be like someone else's house. I wanted my house

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Speaker 1: to be like that. I would bring the containers in,

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Speaker 1: and my space never looked like that. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what was wrong. Well, when I realized that containers are

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Speaker 1: meant to contain, They're meant to serve as a limit.

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Speaker 1: They're a boundary, I was like, Oh, this is how

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Speaker 1: their containers make their house look nice. My containers just

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Speaker 1: keep it messy. Because I would basically fill a container,

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Speaker 1: I still had stuff that I wanted to keep, and

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Speaker 1: so then I would buy another container, and then another container,

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Speaker 1: and then another container. And then I would go to

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Speaker 1: put those containers on the shelf and they wouldn't fit

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Speaker 1: on the shelf, and I would think, oh, my word,

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Speaker 1: why is this so hard for me? And it seems

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Speaker 1: so easy for everybody else, And so then I would

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Speaker 1: buy another shelving unit, you know, And eventually I basically

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Speaker 1: didn't have any room in my house for the stuff.

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Speaker 1: And so when I realized, oh, a container's purpose is

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Speaker 1: to be a limit. Then it helped me say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to fill this container by putting my favorite

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Speaker 1: things in first, and once it's full. There is something

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Speaker 1: about that impersonal boundary making the decision for me that

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Speaker 1: helped me let go of things and helped me identify,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, out of all of these items like crayons

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Speaker 1: or pens or whatever, these are my favorite, I technically

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Speaker 1: don't need these other three hundred or whatever that I have,

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Speaker 1: you know, like those, I think this is enough. What's

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Speaker 1: in the container is and the container made that decision,

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Speaker 1: and so I apply that to everything in my house.

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Speaker 1: Every shelf is a container, every drawer is a container,

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Speaker 1: every closet, every space my house itself is a container.

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Speaker 1: And when I view it that way, then I let

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Speaker 1: the boundaries make those decisions, and that frees me to

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Speaker 1: make real progress. And part of that progress. Another tip

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Speaker 1: that you give your listeners and viewers is to create

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Speaker 1: a donate spot. And I wonder if you could talk

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Speaker 1: about how that is a small habit, a small change

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Speaker 1: that people could make that might help them make real

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Speaker 1: progress on the decluttering front. Yeah. So, I you know,

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Speaker 1: at one point I thought I will declutter my house,

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Speaker 1: and then I will be done and I will never

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Speaker 1: have to declutter again. And that's what most people who

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Speaker 1: are overwhelmed to clutter. They just think there will come

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Speaker 1: a time where I'm done with this. Well, as I

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Speaker 1: decluttered and kept decluttering, and then life kept happening, and

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Speaker 1: then I kept having to declutter more, I realized the

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Speaker 1: reason some people's houses don't have clutter is because they're

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Speaker 1: always decluttering. That's just reality. And realizing that sounds like

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Speaker 1: it could be defeating, and yet it's actually a relief

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Speaker 1: to realize, Okay, it's not that I've failed because new

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Speaker 1: stuff has come in my house. It's just that in

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Speaker 1: order to have a house to cunder control, I constantly

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Speaker 1: have to be getting rid of stuff. And so realizing

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Speaker 1: that made me decide I want to just live a

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Speaker 1: life of constantly getting rid of things. And because of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it helps to have a donate spot where

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Speaker 1: everybody in the family knows where that is. And as

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Speaker 1: my family saw me getting rid of stuff that they

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Speaker 1: once thought I would never get rid of, then they

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Speaker 1: started to change their relationship with their stuff, and we

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Speaker 1: just as a family as something came along that it

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, these pants aren't great, or this toy

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Speaker 1: is you know, I'm not really playing with this anymore.

429
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: I don't, you know, I've outgrown this. Okay, Well, there's

430
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: a donate box, so everybody knows where that is, and

431
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: it just becomes part of that family dynamic of this

432
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 1: is what we do, we get rid of stuff, and

433
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: having that allows that to happen easily. And the donate

434
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: box is only part of it, right because yeah, yeah,

435
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: well another one of your tips that and I've done

436
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 1: this too, and I'm sure many people have you said

437
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: throw the pin away, So yeah, if maybe go into

438
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: that a little bit, Yeah, yeah. So it's funny how

439
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: much this impacts people because I we're talking about a pen,

440
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: but we're really talking about a whole way of thinking

441
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: about your stuff. You know. Is this How many times

442
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: have I in my lifetime tried to write with a pin?

443
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: It didn't work, and I stick it back in the drawer,

444
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: either because it's automatic or because I'm thinking, well, if

445
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: one day, if I was really desperate, then I would

446
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: you know, run it under hot water or you know,

447
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: whatever it is that I might be able to do,

448
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: or find some YouTube video that shows me how to

449
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 1: revive dead pins or I don't know. So that mentality

450
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: of just automatically keeping versus in this moment when I

451
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: realize this item is not useful going ahead and getting

452
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: rid of it. I'm going to go ahead and throw

453
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: it away immediately. And it's a mindset that is easy

454
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: to identify and practice with pens. That then starts to

455
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 1: change how I think about all of my stuff. But

456
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: for right now, just throw away the pen. Just make

457
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: a decision over the course of twenty twenty three that

458
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 1: if you come across a pen that is not working,

459
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: instead of putting it in the drawer, just throw it away,

460
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: make that small decision, and that will incriminally start to

461
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: change your house, but also start to change how you

462
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: think about stuff. Yeah, it's not going to magically write

463
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: in the future like I hope. But I really thought that.

464
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't really think that, but you know

465
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like the action I was taking showed

466
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: that that was what I was thinking. Yeah, you are

467
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: known for your two decluttering questions. So once we've started

468
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: throwing away our pen, we're doing our dishes. You know,

469
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: we got our donate spot. As you are maybe attacking

470
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: some of them the more problematic areas in the house.

471
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: As you are going through the piles of stuff, there

472
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 1: are two questions that you ask yourself about every object.

473
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about those with us.

474
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: I have seen lists of ten twelve decluttering questions, and

475
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: that's kind of a lot of questions. I mean, I

476
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: feel like people are just coming up with a prenible right,

477
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: But I've seen those lists that I was always like, yeah,

478
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure if you had Grandma's such and

479
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: such that you were trying to make some big decision about. Okay,

480
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: I can see that. But I had so much stuff

481
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: in my house. My house was so out of control

482
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: that I was like, I got to do this quickly.

483
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 1: And so as I was decluttering, I didn't decide ahead

484
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: of time, As I was just trying to figure it

485
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: out and getting stuff out of my house. I came

486
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: up with two questions that allowed me to make super fast,

487
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 1: non emotional progress. Because if I let myself ask questions

488
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: like do I need this? Will I ever use this?

489
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: Is this valuable? I'm gonna keep everything. That's why I

490
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: had it all in my house, right, So I had

491
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: to come up with very practical ways to make fast decisions.

492
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: So the first question is if I needed this item,

493
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: where would I look for it first? Okay, Now the

494
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: key there is the word would, not the word should

495
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: if I and people accidentally ask should sometimes like if

496
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: you start asking yourself where should this go? Well, if

497
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: you already knew where it should go, then it's already there,

498
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: right like you can just take it there, but it's

499
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: long as you're looking at this item, and you're just

500
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: like I. Then I asked myself the question where would

501
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: I look for this first? Like literally, if I was

502
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: looking for I'm looking around at my desk right now,

503
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: this microphone stand. Where's the first place in my house

504
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: that I would look? What's the first cabinet that I

505
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: would open whatever in the moment, Not that I am

506
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: confident it's going to be there, but just where would

507
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: I look first? And then I take it there right now?

508
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: And that is actually the key to my decline process.

509
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: So my decluttering process is designed to make progress and

510
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: only progress and never cause you to end up with

511
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: a bigger mess as you get distracted, I mean especially

512
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: young moms, right like, if you have kids, distractions are guaranteed.

513
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: Like that's the one thing in your life that's guaranteed

514
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: is you're going to have to stop in the middle

515
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: of something. Well in that hole pull it out, all

516
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: out process that a lot of people recommend for decluttering,

517
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: which I do not recommend. Then you've pulled everything out,

518
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: or you've set things aside, or you've decided what you're

519
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: going to do with something and you put it in

520
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: a pile to do later because you think you're being

521
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: more efficient. But then life happens and you either have

522
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: to ask yourself that question again or that stuff is

523
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: outside the space. So anyway, so the take it there

524
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: now is key. So like, as I have an answer

525
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: to where what I look for this first, I take

526
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: it to that place right now. It forces me to

527
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: deal with reality because maybe that place actually already has

528
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: six of this same item or whatever. But I am

529
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: doing that and so that at any moment when I

530
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: get distracted that I've I've only made progress because that

531
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: item is there. I haven't left anything in a halfway thing.

532
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: If I can't answer that first question, if I'm like, oh,

533
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: then I asked myself the second question, which is if

534
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: I needed this item, would it ever occur to me

535
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: that I already had one because I didn't have a

536
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: place I would go looking for it, because it would

537
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: never occur to me that I had one, which means

538
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: if I needed it, I would have gone out and

539
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: bought another one, would have ordered one, I would have

540
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: done without. But as long as I just keep things

541
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: because I think, oh, well, but I might need it someday,

542
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: if I didn't know that I had it, so I

543
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: wouldn't have gone looking for it, then I'm just going

544
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: to end up with more of those same things in

545
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: my house. And so I put the value on the

546
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: space being functional and decluttered as opposed to the potential

547
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: cost of me having to go out and replace this

548
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: item at some point. And when I read your books,

549
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: those questions struck me as very useful, and particularly the

550
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: idea of taking it where it needs to go now,

551
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: because then that skips over the whole existence of these

552
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: in your mediate piles. Yes, and I think the piles

553
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: is where a lot of people get tripped up, right, Yeah,

554
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that is people's number one frustration with decluttering.

555
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: It's the number one reason people put off decluttering is

556
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 1: because it feels like well, from the experience they've had

557
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: in the past, like, what always gets worse before it

558
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: gets better. So I don't want to start right now

559
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,959
Speaker 1: because I don't know for sure that I can finish.

560
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: And especially when you have young kids, you're like, well,

561
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: what am I ever going to know that I can finish?

562
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna have to wait until the kids

563
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: are at camp, or I'm gonna have to wait until

564
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: my mom takes them for a weekend, or I'm gon

565
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: actually have to wait till they start school or whatever.

566
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: I mean, like that is how the brain goes, and

567
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: so you just keep putting it off. It gets more

568
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: overwhelming than that makes you feel like you need even

569
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: more time. So it's just this process that happens wherein

570
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: when you are taking it there right now that allows

571
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: you to say, I can declutter for two minutes, five minutes,

572
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: an hour, and as long as I'm taking it there

573
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: right now, I can stop at any point. And I

574
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: don't have those piles. I don't have a box a

575
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: keep box, you know. I mean, if you've seen I

576
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: don't actually get on TikTok, but I hear from people

577
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, people are talking about doom boxes on TikTok,

578
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, those are former keep boxes where

579
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: people were just like, yeah, I do want this, and

580
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: so I stick it in a keep box. Well, if

581
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: you have a keep box, what does that mean? It

582
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: doesn't actually mean anything. It's not decluttered because it doesn't

583
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: have an actual home. It has to either have an

584
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: actual home in my house or it has to leave.

585
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: And the way I determine the home is where I

586
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: would look for it first, and then by taking it

587
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: there now I embrace the reality of that space. Where

588
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: as long as it's kind of an ambiguous idea in

589
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: my head of oh yeah, yeah, I would look for

590
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: this first in the master bathroom. Well, by taking it

591
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: there now, then I'm actually acting on that and finding out, oh,

592
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: there is a place for it here or you know

593
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: what I mean, or I already have six yes exactly.

594
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: And I think the reason people will resist that is

595
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: You're like, well, it sounds like I'm going to be

596
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: climbing the stairs constantly. I was like, well, okay, who

597
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: among us does not need more steps in our lives?

598
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: Like just you know, put on your pedometer and be

599
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: happy about the fact that you're going up and down

600
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: the stairs ten times as opposed to you know, you

601
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: maybe get to skip the gym that day, so you've

602
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: found it. And it doesn't have to be one item

603
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: at a time, like you can take anything that you

604
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: can carry in your hands, not in another thing that

605
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: goes on that direction to that thing. But you know,

606
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: I hear from people all the time who say, I

607
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: didn't think I could do that because physical limitations, blah

608
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: blah blah. And yet when I did it, the reality

609
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: of actually being finished with a few small things as

610
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: opposed to halfway done and messier because I started this big,

611
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: huge project and then ran out of energy. I get

612
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: so much farther when I take it there, Nail, like

613
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: it just it works, it works, it works. So this

614
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: was a particular question that my co host wanted to

615
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: make sure I asked, which is, if you have tips

616
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: for helping kids organize and declutteres or is that doing

617
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: stuff for other people that we just cannot do. I

618
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: don't know what I mean. I think with kids it's

619
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: a different story, right because you are you're the grown up.

620
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: You know, you're the director of these kinds of things.

621
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: And so yeah, absolutely, I do think it's important to

622
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: distinguish between decluttering and organizing because it feels like they're

623
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: the same thing, but they are not the same thing.

624
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: And what I experienced was just decluttering is what changed

625
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: my house because when I had had this idea that

626
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: I needed to get organized, then I was thinking of

627
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: systems and things to implement, and I wasn't actually getting started.

628
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: Where when I just said I'm just going to get

629
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: rid of stuff, that's when my house started to change

630
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: and ended up functioning the way I had envisioned when

631
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: I thought I needed to get organized, just by getting

632
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: the excess out of there. So with kids, that's especially

633
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: important to say, we're not going to have big dreams

634
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: of how this is going to look in the end.

635
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: We're just going to go in and we're going to

636
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: start through the decluttering process. And my decluttering process works

637
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: really well with other people because it doesn't deal with

638
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: emotions or value. It's basically just we're going to deal

639
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: with the realities of this space, which means there's not

640
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: a power struggle that goes on. So start with you know,

641
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: my first step is trash. Just start with trash and

642
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: let them identify the trash, which is hard as a

643
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: mom to not be like, oh my word, that is trash, right, there,

644
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: but like, let them do that, say, let's just get

645
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: rid of the trash. Okay. Then the next step is

646
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: the easy step. Is there anything in your space that

647
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: actually goes somewhere else in the house, Let's get that

648
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: out of here. And every time you get something out,

649
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: that feeling of being overwhelmed lessens a little bit. You're

650
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: seeing some progress and then asking those two decluttering questions.

651
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: So within this room or wherever, where would you look

652
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: first for your lego batman? You know? Okay, I would

653
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: look for them in that container. We're going to take

654
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: it there right now. And just going through this process

655
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: helps them really start to see how this is supposed

656
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: to work. Because kids, they may not understand all of that,

657
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: but the beauty of the container concept is how well

658
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: it works with kids and other people, and that is, Okay,

659
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: you love your stuffed animals. Nobody's going to say that

660
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: any of these stuffed animals are not valuable, because that

661
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: will guarantee, I mean, that's guaranteed to make your kid

662
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: hold on to it tighter, right like they you know,

663
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: they love these stuffed animals great. Absolutely, this is the

664
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: space that we have for stuffed animals. This is the

665
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: shelf that we have, so put your favorite ones on

666
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: there first. And that's fun, right, Like, it's fun to

667
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: pick your very favorite ones put them on the shelf.

668
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: And as you do that, then casually mention that if

669
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: whatever doesn't fit, we'll have to get rid of, you know,

670
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: but let's just focus on putting your favorite ones in

671
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: there first. And the container concept lets every answer be yes,

672
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: which is the beauty of it. So you don't have

673
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: to have the conversation where you're trying to say, but

674
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: you never play with this, but blah blah. You don't

675
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: have to do that. You get to say, put your

676
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: favorite ones on there first. And then if they come

677
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: up with other ones and now it's full and they say, oh,

678
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: but I love this one, the answer is yes, you

679
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: can absolutely keep that. What are you willing to get

680
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: rid of that's on the shelf, so we can make

681
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: the space for you to put it on the shelf, right, Okay,

682
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: So it's like, what can we take away to give

683
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: space for this item? And then if they say, oh,

684
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: I can't do that, Oh I'm so sorry, it is

685
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 1: so hard, I know, but I have to keep it. Okay,

686
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: then what are you willing to get rid of, Like

687
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: it's always a yes. And then if they say, but mom,

688
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: I want to keep all of my stuffed animals, they say, sure,

689
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: you can do that. So are you what other you know,

690
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: do you want to get rid of your race tracks

691
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: or your I don't know, my kids are older now,

692
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: but you know, like your legos or something. You know,

693
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: what are you willing to get rid of so that

694
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: we can have more space for stuffed animals, because it's

695
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: the space that is making those hard calls and not

696
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: you as the mom. Does that make sense? And it

697
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: works amazingly well with kids, Like it worked when my

698
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: kids were little, and I hear from people on a

699
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: pretty much a daily basis who are like, I didn't

700
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: think this would actually work with my kid who tends

701
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: to hold on to everything, And yet it does because

702
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: the container just naturally sorts out in a fun way, honestly,

703
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: what they love and what they don't love as much. Yeah,

704
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: I mean I would throw in here that you could

705
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: have a few extra containers in the kids room. I mean,

706
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, we don't have to make it look like

707
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: a magazine, right, Like it doesn't have to be a

708
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 1: minimalist paradise because I am not a minimalist by any means,

709
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: but it is the space determines and that the reality

710
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: there is that the room itself is a container and

711
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: they need play space first, and so it's like, give

712
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: them space, but it's not that you can't add another container.

713
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: And yet if adding another container means that there's no

714
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: room to play, then that defeats the purpose of this space, right,

715
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: So letting those containers be the decision makers, that's it's huge, Dan.

716
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: It we always end with a love of the week,

717
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: something that is working for us right now in our lives.

718
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: I can go first, so that you know, we I'm

719
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: really appreciating that we have sort of six drawers on

720
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: the side of our kitchen cupboard, which is where you

721
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: would normally have a junk drawer, which you know, I'm

722
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: sure the whole thing in the decluttering world where people

723
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: have hard feelings about junk orwards or whatever I have. Well,

724
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: we can actually have six random drawers. So now things

725
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: that might have gone in there are sort of spread

726
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: out into each of these drawers, and so it makes

727
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: it easier to have a bit more function form. So

728
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 1: we have a drawer that has the flashlights and batteries

729
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: and a drawer that has the art supplies that the

730
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: kids use in the kitchen, an a drawer with the

731
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: little plastic baggies for making lunches. You know. You see

732
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: how this is going. Yeah, and it's great. It's been

733
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: really functional. So I've been glad for that element of

734
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: kitchen design. How about you, what's working for you right now? Well,

735
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: I hate to mention an expensive thing, but it was

736
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: an investment, you know that. It took me years to decide,

737
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh no, I love it. And that's

738
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: my robot vacuum. Ooh yeah. I had not had one

739
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: for a long time, and then I got one, and

740
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: I got like the cheaper version that I was going

741
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: to have to remember to start it, and then I

742
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: was going to have to remember to empty it, and

743
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: then it just kind of sat there and I never

744
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: did much with it, you know, And so I finally

745
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: was like, I think there was a sale at one point,

746
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think I'm going to do this,

747
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: the one that has its own vacuum bag where it

748
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: like empties itself and it's honesting and I got it,

749
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: and I did not know how much I would love it.

750
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: We have a German shepherd. They shed like crazy, you know,

751
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh wow, my aps look so much

752
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 1: better because it's you know, going three times a week

753
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: and you could set it to start when you leave

754
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 1: the house, which is crazy to me, Like I didn't

755
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: know all this. But I will say the one thing

756
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: I am anti notifications on my phone, Like I do

757
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: not like notifications, and so I always say no when

758
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: they say do you want to send you notifications? And yeah,

759
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: but I went back and changed that because it is

760
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: very helpful for them to say, oh, Dusty got stopped

761
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: and he got stuck somewhere, and I'm like, okay, yeah,

762
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: so that has been a worthy notification for me. That's

763
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: been helpful. But yeah, that has really been fantastic. And

764
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: I have to say, as the person who thirteen years

765
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: ago loved the idea of a robot vacuum and yet

766
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: was scared because my house was always such a disaster

767
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 1: that I was like, that wouldn't even work, it also

768
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: is kind of a yeah, I can totally do this

769
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: now and this is amazing. You have floors that actually

770
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: could be vacuum yeah, which is a major breakthrough. Yeah awesome.

771
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: All right, Well, people wanted there you go, a testament

772
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: for the robot vacuum. There, Dana, thank you so much

773
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: for coming on the program. Can you just let our

774
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: listeners know where they can find you? So I'm all

775
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: over the internet, as Dana K. White. You can look

776
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: up a slob comsclean dot com. That's where you basically

777
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: would find all of my home based information. Awesome, Well,

778
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining. Yes, thanks for having

779
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: me on. Well, that was great. It's always fun to

780
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: hear tips that are practical that can make a big difference.

781
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: Don't seem like they're so insurmountable that you know we

782
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: won't even start them. You know, actually have a cleaner house.

783
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, I have resolved to throw away

784
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: pens that don't work. When I discover that they don't work,

785
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: they should go in the trash can, not back in

786
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: the door. I think that's an excellent mindset in general. So, Sarah,

787
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: can you read our listener question for this week? Yes,

788
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: she writes, I know you've covered this topic a bit before,

789
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: but I've been reading your blog and lag Live. That's

790
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: one of our prior guests, and somebody who wrote a

791
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: post on this topic over and over again, as well

792
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: as random message boards about having a third child. But

793
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: now five years on from having three, that's in my case,

794
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: how do you find it? She writes, I know the

795
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: logical answer is wait until I have two. This person

796
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: is currently pregnant with her second and has a child

797
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: at home, And while I'm fortunate to be expected that

798
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: second baby, the planner in me really craves a better

799
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: idea of whether this is going to be my last

800
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: pregnancy or not. I'm not someone who seems to be

801
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: naturally fertile, or rather, I have to stop running entirely

802
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: to do so, which I guess isn't much compared to

803
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: what some people must go through, but it feels like

804
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: a lot to me. Also, I adore my son, but

805
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: the sleepless nights were very long, and we still aren't

806
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: always as sure to rest all night. Nearly two years in.

807
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: Finally we're in daycare, and the relentless illnesses while both

808
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: working full time has been much harder than I had

809
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: accounted for. I worry having a third will mean I

810
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: won't have as much time for the older kids. Again,

811
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: when I feel like we'll be in a sweet spot,

812
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: my illness is very amenable to outings and a sweet

813
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 1: natured kid. I worry if we do stop it. Two

814
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: will my heart always long for that third that never was?

815
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: And are all the above reasons really that much of

816
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: a challenge in the bigger picture? Oh, my goodness, lots

817
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: to unpack there, I would say. People have heard me

818
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: say this on the podcast before. This is probably one

819
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: of the most common questions we get. And I don't

820
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: know if it's because Sarah and I both do have

821
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: more than two kids, and so it's something that people

822
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: do bring up. But the question of whether people it's

823
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: generally whether people should have a third kid. We don't

824
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: get a whole lot of questions like should I have

825
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: a fourth or fifth kid? I don't know. Maybe by

826
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: that point people aren't writing into podcast hosts about that question.

827
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: But we do get the question fairly frequently of should

828
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: I have a third kid, which, of course we cannot

829
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: answer for any of you. That is absolutely up to you,

830
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: and you know your partner, if you have a partner

831
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: to make that decision. That said, a few thoughts, Sarah,

832
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: you want to one so I like Tangentially, I don't

833
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: know this person, but I've known her over the years

834
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: and I know she loves to plan, but I would

835
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: advise this is one of those cases I really just

836
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: don't think it's time to plan yet. I would advise

837
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 1: against planning. There's just too many variables to spend energy

838
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: worrying about when you're just pregnant with number two, and

839
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: I just don't think there's really much of a downside

840
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: to just trying to leave things open in your mind.

841
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: Or maybe if you do feel like you need a plan,

842
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 1: make a plan to weigh the pros and cons when

843
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 1: your second kid is of a certain age, Like, I'm

844
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: not going to think about it now, but this will

845
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: be something to revisit when my younger child turns too,

846
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: because honestly, I didn't even want a third kid. When

847
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: Cameron was one years old, I was like, eh, we're good,

848
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: and it wasn't until later. So I guess I just

849
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 1: don't think I would trust what your feelings are going

850
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: to be in the future. It may become very very

851
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: obvious in one direction or another, and so this is

852
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: like wasted kind of fretting. And then the other thing

853
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: I'll mention is, you know you mentioned stopping running to

854
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 1: get pregnant. I will put a gentle who cares on that,

855
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: and I know, like I needed to hear that myself

856
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: when I was having very similar issues. I also, for

857
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 1: my first pregnancy, really needed to stop running very much

858
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: to get pregnant. It wasn't really the case with the

859
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: other two. But I wasn't running that much. And I

860
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: don't think this person is a pro runner. I am

861
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: certainly not a pro runner. And so if you want

862
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: another baby, the temporary pause in your running is just

863
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things, It's just no big deal,

864
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: Like who cares. Maybe your cumbo back won't be as strong,

865
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And I've learned that as an older, wiser,

866
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: slower person, and I'm enjoying running more now and wherever

867
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: it takes me, it'll take me. But like what I

868
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: was going to run back in twenty fifteen, my twenty

869
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty twenty three meters, like who cares? That

870
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: was over and if you want another baby, that should

871
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: take priority in my opinion. Okay, I'm done. Yeah, No,

872
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that. It could be a

873
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: similar situation with you too. I mean that you were

874
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: running so much when you were trying to get pregnant

875
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: with Annabel, Will you're first. Like again like by the

876
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: time you have a toddler, like, there just isn't as

877
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: much time available for the intense running training. So she

878
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 1: may actually not have the same issue. I mean, I

879
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not her, I don't know her, don't

880
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: know her medical issues or whatever, but that actually may

881
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: not come up at all. I don't know. You could

882
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: try and then if it's not happening after a month

883
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: or two, then scale back on the running or whatever.

884
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: In the grand scheme of things, that probably won't happen

885
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: all that much. But yeah, no, I wasn't sure that

886
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: this was It was just funny. It was we don't

887
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: know if anyone should have a third kid or not.

888
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: But I thought it was funny to ask the question

889
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: of Sarah, like five years in, are you happy? What's

890
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: she going to say? Like, I'm super happy I did it.

891
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: But I do think that people who ask that question

892
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: of people who have more than three kids, they want

893
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: a certain answer, and I'm happy to provide it. I

894
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: am so glad that we had a third kid. I actually,

895
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: I do think it's like a level of chaos that

896
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: I enjoy, or a level of challenge and a level

897
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: of camaraderie in the family. That is a lot of fun,

898
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: and I am pretty It's hard to know, but I

899
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 1: think that I would be sad about not have hading,

900
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: like if we had chosen not to do it, or

901
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: if we were unable to have a third I think

902
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: it would have been kind of sad about it. So yeah,

903
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: if that helps, I'm glad to share it. Yeah, I'm

904
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: not just recognizing it. She's already pregnant with number two,

905
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: so maybe she did have to stop running to get

906
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: pregnant with number two. I think, I get back here.

907
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, No, I messed up that

908
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: order of things that I have friends who had like

909
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: two IVF babies and then one surprise baby. So you

910
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: also never know what will happen. You never know. Yeah,

911
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: but I assume, yes, if she was writing to you

912
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: about it, than she probably does in fact, think she

913
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: would like to have a third kid. But it's the

914
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: kind of thing it's hard to know. I mean, yeah,

915
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: number two, things may go differently than you anticipate, in

916
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: which case that may be something that you no longer

917
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: want to pursue or maybe so go a different way.

918
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: And not only do you want number three you want

919
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: number four and five, So who knows. We'll hear back

920
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: from her in a couple of years perhaps, but very

921
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: much an individual question for anyone. Well, this has been

922
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: best of both worlds. I was interviewing Dana K. White

923
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: about how to have a neater home in twenty twenty three.

924
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making

925
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can

926
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 1: find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at

927
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me

928
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the

929
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time

930
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: for more on making work and life work together.