WEBVTT - Rob Katz

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Bob Web Sens podcast. My guest

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<v Speaker 1>today is ROBCATS, CEO and chairperson to Build Resorts. Rob,

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<v Speaker 1>how'd you come up with the idea for the epic Pass?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Bob, it's great to be here. I appreciate you

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<v Speaker 2>having me on the show. And yeah, the team and

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<v Speaker 2>I came up with the idea way back, thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>how do we provide stability to a business that everybody

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<v Speaker 2>thought was totally dependent on whether and uh, it was

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<v Speaker 2>critical for us to do that to make obviously the

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<v Speaker 2>financial situation for our company better, but it was also

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<v Speaker 2>critical for us to do that to provide more stable employment,

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<v Speaker 2>more stable dynamics for our local communities. And so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really been quite transformational.

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<v Speaker 1>So was the main goal to even out revenue or

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<v Speaker 1>to what degree was it to raise the revenue or

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<v Speaker 1>to get more skiers involved.

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<v Speaker 2>The main goal was really to get people to buy

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<v Speaker 2>their skiing before the season began, so that we'd have

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<v Speaker 2>more consistent visitation year in and year out, and that

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<v Speaker 2>people would you know, ski more even you know during

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<v Speaker 2>times when maybe the snow wasn't as good. But then

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<v Speaker 2>we also felt like because we were reducing the price

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<v Speaker 2>so much that it would ultimately, yeah, we'd get more

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<v Speaker 2>people into the sport. And actually, when you look back

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<v Speaker 2>over the last you know, twenty years, we've seen real growth.

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<v Speaker 2>Best you know, two years ever in the US ski

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<v Speaker 2>industry history was two of the last three.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you think that the epic pass alone has

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<v Speaker 1>driven that increase or do you think it's got more

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<v Speaker 1>coming out of COVID or other factors.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's no doubt that COVID helped in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of I think you know, we were a local option

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<v Speaker 2>for people to take, you know, vacations too, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was outdoors, so that definitely helped. But I think last

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<v Speaker 2>year was maybe a better because last year wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>COVID related year, and if anything, I think we were

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<v Speaker 2>seeing kind of a decline from the COVID peaks, But

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<v Speaker 2>last year I think highlighted that. Yeah, probably COVID activated

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of dormant skiers. But when you look even

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<v Speaker 2>you know, look over twenty years, you know, the peak

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<v Speaker 2>year way back when was probably in the high forties.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it was the low fifties, and it was a

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<v Speaker 2>mid fifties, then you know, the high fifties. Now we're

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<v Speaker 2>in the low sixties. So I think you've seen this

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<v Speaker 2>pretty consistent, you know, increase, and I would say it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's probably some corollary effects. So because the Epic Pass

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<v Speaker 2>and then you know the Icon Pass and all the

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<v Speaker 2>other passes that have been created since, because they've stabilized

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<v Speaker 2>the industry, it has made the industry safer to invest.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you've seen a lot more money go into

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<v Speaker 2>ski areas around North America, actually around the world. And

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<v Speaker 2>so it's quite a heyday in terms of the amount

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<v Speaker 2>of new projects, new upgrades that you're seeing, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that has also brought people into the sport.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, you have a business background, you come up with

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<v Speaker 1>the idea of the Epic Pass. Tell us about the

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<v Speaker 1>actual process of running the numbers. How do you come

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<v Speaker 1>up with the numbers the spreadsheets to say this is

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<v Speaker 1>a good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, for the Epic Pass itself, we knew right

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<v Speaker 2>we were reducing the price of a season pass for

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<v Speaker 2>us from I think it was sixteen hundred or seventeen

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<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars and we reduced it down to six hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>So we knew right away that there were a whole

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of people who were buying season passes from us,

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<v Speaker 2>we were going to lose money on them right at

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<v Speaker 2>the outfit, and so we factored that in and then

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<v Speaker 2>what we were saying was how many additional people could

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<v Speaker 2>sell an Epic pass too, And then a part of

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<v Speaker 2>that was how many people would be new, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of coming into At that point, we only had

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<v Speaker 2>five resorts, so how many would be new people and

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<v Speaker 2>to Veil be for Greek, Breckenridge, key Stone or Heavenly,

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<v Speaker 2>And then how many people would be lifted ad buyers

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<v Speaker 2>that might have skied two days, three days, five days,

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<v Speaker 2>but with the Epic pass right, they'd ski eight days

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<v Speaker 2>or seven days. In other words, we were looking for

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<v Speaker 2>both building frequency from people and then bringing new people in.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we looked at all that and actually in

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<v Speaker 2>the first year of the Epic Past we were it

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<v Speaker 2>was great. We sold a lot of passes, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was nowhere near what we thought it could be. And

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<v Speaker 2>it really taught us that to really convince people to

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<v Speaker 2>use a new product one takes a long time, and

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<v Speaker 2>two marketing was going to be critical to how we

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<v Speaker 2>delivered on that.

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<v Speaker 1>I happened to be in Veil the day was announced.

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<v Speaker 1>I walked down to the gondole and was shocked. But

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<v Speaker 1>tell me about the marketing challenges and how you reach

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<v Speaker 1>the potential ski audience today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think, by the way, I do remember

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<v Speaker 2>that day as well. I was in Veil. I think

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<v Speaker 2>we were doing news hits from the from the basement gondola.

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<v Speaker 2>I think at that time, I can't remember. And then,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we also had a mad rush of people

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<v Speaker 2>who were going in to buy the past because they

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<v Speaker 2>all thought we had made a mistake and so they

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<v Speaker 2>were convinced that we were going to take it away

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, reverse the whole thing. You know, at

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<v Speaker 2>that time when we launched it, the real challenge was, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>like most people thought that if you were going to

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<v Speaker 2>buy a season pass, you only did that because you

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<v Speaker 2>were a local. And so most destination skiers, even if

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<v Speaker 2>it made sense for them to buy the past, they

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<v Speaker 2>weren't looking at it because they just didn't think that

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<v Speaker 2>that was for them. And so back then it was

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<v Speaker 2>hard because we didn't have emails for everybody, we didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have everybody's data, we didn't have any of that. So

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<v Speaker 2>we were really focused on a lot of traditional media

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<v Speaker 2>approaches in terms of you know, getting into some display

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<v Speaker 2>ads and online, a bunch of traditional ads that we

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<v Speaker 2>were running still in a lot of the ski magazines

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<v Speaker 2>or newspapers, and then we were doing a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>kind of I don't know, unique stunts of sorts. So

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<v Speaker 2>I had to show how many, you know, we had

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<v Speaker 2>people skiing every mountain, We had people, you know, showing

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<v Speaker 2>how you could use it to you know, ski throughout

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<v Speaker 2>the year and what you could.

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<v Speaker 1>Do with it.

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<v Speaker 2>So, you know, it was it was much tougher. Today

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<v Speaker 2>we're in a totally different spot, right We have emails.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we have like twenty five million people in

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<v Speaker 2>our database. You know, we have you know, basically almost

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<v Speaker 2>everybody who has skied is somehow in one of our databases,

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<v Speaker 2>unless you know, you kind of have a home and

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<v Speaker 2>asspen and have never stepped foot in one of our

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<v Speaker 2>resorts or something like that. And now, yeah, we had

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<v Speaker 2>a heavy effort to email people. So our goal was

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<v Speaker 2>really to get away from traditional meat media advertising or

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<v Speaker 2>even digital advertising and really focus on how to communicate

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<v Speaker 2>one to one with the guests over email, which served

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<v Speaker 2>us incredibly well and responsible for a huge amount of

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<v Speaker 2>our growth over the past fifteen to twenty years. Over

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<v Speaker 2>the last three to four years, it's really shifted because

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<v Speaker 2>email has become kind of degenerated as a channel. People

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<v Speaker 2>don't open email, especially younger folks twenty to thirty really

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<v Speaker 2>don't open email. And so what we're doing right now

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<v Speaker 2>is we're pivoting towards social channels. We're pivoting towards direct

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<v Speaker 2>engagement through our app and on mobile, and so we're

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<v Speaker 2>really kind of moving that one to one relationship into

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<v Speaker 2>a different spot.

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<v Speaker 1>So where'd you grow up?

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up in Nurshell, New York, about thirty minutes

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<v Speaker 2>north of Manhattan, famous for the I think it was

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<v Speaker 2>the Dick Van Dykes show exactly supposedly took place there.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, And what did your parents do for a living?

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<v Speaker 2>My mom was an artist and my dad was a

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<v Speaker 2>local attorney.

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<v Speaker 1>In How many siblings did you have?

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<v Speaker 2>I have one younger sibling, a brother.

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<v Speaker 1>And what is he up to?

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<v Speaker 2>He is in the mortgage finance business. Lives still back east,

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<v Speaker 2>living in West Hampstead of Long Island.

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<v Speaker 1>So what kind of kid were you?

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<v Speaker 2>What kind of kid was I? I was? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was very into being active for sure, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>within my family. I was kind of the first one

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<v Speaker 2>to get the bug to go skiing. It definitely, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>growing up. You know, I think that certainly the history

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<v Speaker 2>of my family, you know, coming over from Eastern Europe

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<v Speaker 2>and then settling and living in the Bronx and in

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<v Speaker 2>Queen's Originally, yeah, like there was no skiing and anybody's background.

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<v Speaker 2>But I did a couple of class trips to Hunter Mountain,

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<v Speaker 2>and even though I was you know, skiing in jeans

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<v Speaker 2>and I was soaking and I'd be on the bus

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<v Speaker 2>right back, it was, yeah, I really got I really

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<v Speaker 2>got into it. And then I was lucky that my cousin,

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<v Speaker 2>first cousin and my uncle, you know, they their family

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<v Speaker 2>really got into skiing and they started skiing around the Northeast,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I would tag along with them, or sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>my whole family would tag along with them, and they

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately bought a house at Stratton, and so I did

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<v Speaker 2>wind up spending kind of from I don't know, fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>to twenty skiing at Stratton. I actually remember at twenty

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<v Speaker 2>I took my first trip out to Vail. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>I was twenty one or twenty two, I can remember,

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<v Speaker 2>and my cousin had to give me like tips on

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<v Speaker 2>how to transition my style from skiing on the ice

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<v Speaker 2>in the east to the powder out west.

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<v Speaker 1>So well, how much were you skiing in those days

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<v Speaker 1>from age fifteen to twenty or even earlier than that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably ten to twenty days, maybe a year in ten,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, something in that, depending on you know where

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<v Speaker 2>we took drips ten to fifteen. I mean it's certainly,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was still a long drive, and even

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<v Speaker 2>the trip to Hunter was a big, a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a schlub. So certainly not something I was doing day

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<v Speaker 2>in and day out. But but it was every year,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was something I cared about. I was

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<v Speaker 2>an avid. I loved you know, going up to the

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<v Speaker 2>resorts and watching Warren Miller, you know clips on TV

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<v Speaker 2>that I was, you know, would get you jazzed up

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<v Speaker 2>for the next year, going to like the local ski shops,

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<v Speaker 2>uh and you know looking at new gear. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>go to Hickory and Tweed Hickory Tweet? No, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was it was it was it paragrine or pedigree

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<v Speaker 2>or I can't remember. It's in white planes. It was

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<v Speaker 2>like a really good ski shop there. But I also

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<v Speaker 2>wound up just because I, you know, didn't have to

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<v Speaker 2>grow up with a lot of resources, so a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of my stuff was hand me downe from somebody else.

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<v Speaker 2>Was fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, in school, what kind of kid were you like?

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<v Speaker 1>President of the class or a loaner? Were you involved

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<v Speaker 1>in sports? What were you like?

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<v Speaker 2>I was definitely I was not president of the class,

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<v Speaker 2>but wasn't a loner either. I was more kind of

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle. And actually my personality type is right

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<v Speaker 2>on the edge between introvert and extrovert, so that's the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of would define me a little bit. Was into sports,

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<v Speaker 2>but also, you know, I was into I was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>much stronger in math and science than I was in English,

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<v Speaker 2>and so wound up, you know, kind of leaning in

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<v Speaker 2>that direction. And then ultimately, you know, when I went

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<v Speaker 2>to college, I went to the engineering school at the

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<v Speaker 2>University of Pennsylvania because that's what I thought I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to be, only to find out that engineering is really hard,

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<v Speaker 2>so I switched to something So I switched to something

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<v Speaker 2>easier and went into business.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, tell me about being on the knife edge, the

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<v Speaker 1>line between introvert and extrovert, and how that manifest itself.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it manifests itself in that I think

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<v Speaker 2>I have the ability to be extrovert, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>think that has certainly served me well was you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think the I'm not sure I fully when I

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<v Speaker 2>took the CEO job in Veil at two thousand and six.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I fully understood how extroverted I would

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<v Speaker 2>have to be. But that has helped tremendously. But the

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<v Speaker 2>introvert side comes out in yeah that when I'm not

0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.120
<v Speaker 2>at my job and I'm not you know kind of

0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, doing that for work. Yeah, I'm not running

0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.400
<v Speaker 2>around to parties. I'm happy to be home, you know,

0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.400
<v Speaker 2>with a quiet evening, you know, with friends or family

0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.560
<v Speaker 2>or whoever. So definitely, and I can easily spend yeah,

0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.560
<v Speaker 2>oodles of time on my own. But I would say

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 2>I get a lot of energy. And it's one of

0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.600
<v Speaker 2>the reasons I came back as CEO, you know, I

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.760
<v Speaker 2>left at the end of twenty twenty one and then

0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 2>come back came back you know, this past May and

0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.480
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five. And one of the things I've loved

0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:55.439
<v Speaker 2>the most is the energy that I get from the

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, broader community here at fail Resorts and in

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.600
<v Speaker 2>the industry because it's yeah, so much passion and so energizing,

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.520
<v Speaker 2>So that that's how I can kind of be in

0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 2>both worlds.

0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.440
<v Speaker 1>So when you are home, you're not working in your alone,

0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:09.560
<v Speaker 1>how do you spend your time?

0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Uh? You know, I'm I I have a few things

0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.040
<v Speaker 2>that I yeah, I'm super passionate about. One is cycling.

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, used to be both road and mountain. Too

0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 2>many injuries, so now more mountain and gravel a lot less,

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.439
<v Speaker 2>no more technical mountain biking. I'm kind of too old

0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:35.640
<v Speaker 2>for it. Uh. And yoga has been like become a

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.080
<v Speaker 2>really critical part of my life. Uh. And yeah, staying

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:44.240
<v Speaker 2>staying in shape certainly, yeah, you know. And then I'd

0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 2>say reading, walking, hiking, being outdoors, spending time with my kids. Uh,

0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:54.600
<v Speaker 2>all of that has es central traveling. Uh you know,

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 2>I you know, to me, like my ability to decompress

0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.320
<v Speaker 2>is is really important. I don't think I could be

0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.640
<v Speaker 2>good at my job if I didn't have like enough

0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 2>time to actually unlind And yeah, that to me is

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.439
<v Speaker 2>also just doing what's comfortable in the moment.

0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:17.679
<v Speaker 1>And in this job, does the phone ring, does email

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 1>come in at all hours or is it more regular

0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 1>business schedule? You know, during the day, eight to six whatever,

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and occasionally on the weekend.

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say, one, the phone never rings, so

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I rarely answer the phone if somebody did call.

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 2>So I do rely on either emails or text as

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 2>a communication channel for me, And I would say most

0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 2>of it is, yeah, normal business hours, I don't. I

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 2>personally don't try and generate a lot of emails. Yeah,

0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, at night or over the weekends. I think,

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think maybe I probably did do that,

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, I just when I started to CEO is

0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 2>thirty nine, I probably was in that mode for a

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 2>little bit. But you kind of quickly learn that if

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.080
<v Speaker 2>you want long term success, like you can't burn yourself

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 2>out or everybody else out around you. So I kind of,

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, ease back on that now. That said, like,

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm going to visit the resorts, I'm going

0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.120
<v Speaker 2>to meet people within the industry, I'm going to make connections,

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to meet investors. So there's a lot of hours.

0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know when you add it all up

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.640
<v Speaker 2>in terms of what gets dedicated to the company, But

0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. For me, it's you know, I think

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.000
<v Speaker 2>working at Veil resorts allows you to align who you

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 2>are with what you do. And I'm a skier and

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.040
<v Speaker 2>so you know the fact that I get to work

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 2>on that is uh, yeah, I don't view it as

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 2>work and life balance. Is just my life.

0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 1>And how many kids do you have?

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.680
<v Speaker 2>I have two kids, and what are they up to? Yeah,

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.920
<v Speaker 2>older son who's twenty seven, who works in New York

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.360
<v Speaker 2>at a startup, and then a younger son who's twenty

0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 2>five and is, yeah, working in North Carolina doing ceramics

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and pots ceramics and farming.

0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 1>So they're growing up with you. You start to work

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 1>at Bill Resorts. You know, there's many issues here, whether

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.160
<v Speaker 1>you force your kids to ski, whether they come to themselves.

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Were your kids into skiing?

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.840
<v Speaker 2>My kids are into skiing right from the get go,

0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 2>so I did not have to force them whatsoever. And

0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's been Yeah, one of the most amazing

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 2>experiences of my life has been watching their progression on

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.720
<v Speaker 2>skis and getting a chance to ski with them, and

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 2>of course the faithful day coming down high line at

0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Vale where they were waiting for me instead of the reverse,

0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 2>and you know, it was like a very humbling moment

0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 2>realizing I was getting older, and I was never going

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.880
<v Speaker 2>to catch them again. That was the end of that.

0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 2>And now that's pretty much anytime, like the three of

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 2>us went ski. We've been to Japan twice to ski

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.399
<v Speaker 2>and the last time we did some Helli skiing and

0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.720
<v Speaker 2>sharabetsu and it. You know, the three of us went.

0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.159
<v Speaker 2>We had an amazing day and they were absolutely like

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.720
<v Speaker 2>they were caretaking me. There was nothing happening in the

0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 2>reverse on that front.

0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, Warren Miller said, there's one day that you and

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 1>your kids ski at the same ability.

0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you're at Penn Engineering isn't a good fit?

0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Your mother was an artist. You could have gone into

0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of things. Why did you go to Wharton

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:51.200
<v Speaker 1>in business?

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, I felt like, I mean I said this

0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:56.960
<v Speaker 2>at the time, and maybe it was a line to

0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 2>get myself into Wharton, But but it's turned out to

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.720
<v Speaker 2>be true, Which is I still love, you know, kind

0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.320
<v Speaker 2>of math and science, and I'm definitely an analytic person.

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.320
<v Speaker 2>But I like the social component of Maybe it goes

0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.360
<v Speaker 2>back to the introvert extrovert thing. I like the social

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.399
<v Speaker 2>component of business. I like the fact that relationships mattered

0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.439
<v Speaker 2>in business, and in a way the arc of my

0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 2>business career. You know, I started in private equity. I

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 2>started investment banking, then in private equity, but really made

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.959
<v Speaker 2>this decision that I didn't want to do private equity

0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>forever because I liked the connection. I like the team,

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 2>I like being part of a group, and so that

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 2>initially was what I liked about business versus engineering.

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you graduate from Wharton, how do you get a job?

0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Is your first job Apollo?

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.440
<v Speaker 2>No, my first job was I went out and looked

0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.479
<v Speaker 2>for a variety of different jobs, mostly in banking, and

0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.560
<v Speaker 2>I wound up with I think getting like three different offers.

0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 2>One was like an options trading, which I didn't want

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.440
<v Speaker 2>to do. The other was working at an investment bank

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.879
<v Speaker 2>called Drexel Burnham of Mike Milkan fame, and then the

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 2>last was at a private equity firm called I think

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 2>it was a CDC. And you know, now it would

0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.720
<v Speaker 2>seem obvious that you would go to the private equity firm,

0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.720
<v Speaker 2>but at the time, like private equity wasn't really a

0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.159
<v Speaker 2>big to do as much as it is today, and

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.120
<v Speaker 2>so it felt like going to an investment bank made

0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.920
<v Speaker 2>the most sense. You know, Drexel at that point was

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.479
<v Speaker 2>already under investigation, so there was a bit of a

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.840
<v Speaker 2>cloud over the company. And I remember going out on

0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.240
<v Speaker 2>my cell dinner after I got an offer from Drexel

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 2>and the VP was telling I was telling the VP,

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't sure that I wanted to go to Drexel

0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.520
<v Speaker 2>because they were under investigation, and the VP looked at

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.399
<v Speaker 2>me and said, you know, you seem like a smart kid,

0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 2>and you know what I'm telling you, don't worry about that.

0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 2>You come to Drexel. You're going to have an amazing experience,

0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 2>and even if things go wrong, you'll tell everybody for

0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.439
<v Speaker 2>the rest of your life that you worked together. And

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.120
<v Speaker 2>it turned out to be totally true. And then, yeah,

0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I wound up, you know after Drexel.

0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Really, wait, so you went to work for Drexel. How

0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 1>long till it blew up?

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Eighteen months?

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.720
<v Speaker 1>And then what, you're just out of college. You make

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.320
<v Speaker 1>this decision. How do you rescue yourself from that?

0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:29.639
<v Speaker 2>It was I thought like my career was over, but

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:34.359
<v Speaker 2>I wound up Yeah, having an opportunity to Yeah, a

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.200
<v Speaker 2>lot I did. I really worked hard when I was

0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:37.960
<v Speaker 2>a Drexel and I had made a lot of good

0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.119
<v Speaker 2>relationships and now all these people went to all different

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.040
<v Speaker 2>firms across Wall Street, and so yeah, I think it

0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 2>actually wound up being this huge blessing in disguise for me.

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.160
<v Speaker 2>The people who ultimately started Apollo Leon black Mark Rowan,

0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 2>they wound up, you know, they were working on Apollo

0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 2>at the time, but they didn't have anything, and so

0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:01.919
<v Speaker 2>they they wanted to know if I want to go

0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 2>with them, but they said they couldn't pay me. I said, well,

0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.359
<v Speaker 2>I needed money, and so I wound up taking a

0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:13.639
<v Speaker 2>job at Smith Barney in their financial restructuring group for

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.360
<v Speaker 2>about six months, and then in August of nineteen ninety

0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 2>they called me again and said, oh, you know we

0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 2>are now, we have money and where we can pay

0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 2>you if you want to come over and join us.

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.520
<v Speaker 2>And so I wound up making the move in August

0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.439
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen ninety to join Apollo. When at that point

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 2>there I was the sixth person, you know, in the

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.280
<v Speaker 2>New York office. We're working in offices that we rented

0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.240
<v Speaker 2>from somebody else month to month. I had a computer

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.919
<v Speaker 2>that we rented by the month. It was. It was

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:43.760
<v Speaker 2>a long way from the Apollo of today.

0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.919
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what was your relationship with the other five people

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.680
<v Speaker 1>such as they invited you, and what did you think

0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:54.240
<v Speaker 1>was going to work about Apollo?

0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.679
<v Speaker 2>My relationship was really with this two guys, one of

0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 2>whom was Mark Rowan, who's currently the CEO of Apollo,

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.040
<v Speaker 2>and I'd worked for them while I was at Drexel

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.120
<v Speaker 2>as an analyst, and it was really they. I mean,

0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.639
<v Speaker 2>I had some contact with Leon and John Hannon, but

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 2>really it was it was you know, these other guys

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.679
<v Speaker 2>that brought me along. And what I thought for me

0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:23.000
<v Speaker 2>as a young kid was that having money and investing

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:27.200
<v Speaker 2>money would allow me to have a much I'd get

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>more experience, and it allowed me to do a lot

0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.200
<v Speaker 2>more than being on the banking side, where you're selling

0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.680
<v Speaker 2>to clients, where those clients generally don't want to hear

0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:39.120
<v Speaker 2>from a twenty three year old. But if we're investing

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.560
<v Speaker 2>from Apollo, then that's something that yeah, I thought I

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:46.280
<v Speaker 2>thought could could help boost my career, which which it did.

0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.600
<v Speaker 1>So what did you start out doing it? Apollo?

0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 2>We were looking for, you know, traditional buyouts. We certainly

0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>were looking for like other private equity firms, but a

0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.119
<v Speaker 2>lot of what we were doing was looking for or

0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:04.440
<v Speaker 2>companies that were in financial distress, companies that were good

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:08.160
<v Speaker 2>companies but had taken on too much debt, and then

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.160
<v Speaker 2>we were willing to then go invest in those companies,

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.640
<v Speaker 2>or invest in the debt of those companies, and then

0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:17.160
<v Speaker 2>try and restructure them so we could have an ownership state.

0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:20.720
<v Speaker 2>And that ultimately was how I got connected with Fail

0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.400
<v Speaker 2>because Veil at that time, back in nineteen ninety one

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.840
<v Speaker 2>was owned by a company called Gillette Holdings, which was

0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:33.000
<v Speaker 2>like a little personal conglomerate of George Gillett, and the

0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:38.440
<v Speaker 2>company had fail the Mountain Packer Land, a meat packing company,

0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:43.959
<v Speaker 2>and then three television stations, and so we wound up

0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 2>making a big investment there and ultimately taking control, and

0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:49.240
<v Speaker 2>then we sold off the meat packer and the television

0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:53.400
<v Speaker 2>stations and wound up with what was then called Veil Associates.

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:58.600
<v Speaker 1>So whose idea was it? An invest in bail? And

0:23:58.720 --> 0:23:59.960
<v Speaker 1>how did you end up on the board?

0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:04.560
<v Speaker 2>I think you know it was you know, I think

0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:06.199
<v Speaker 2>I had done a lot of the initial work, but

0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:08.720
<v Speaker 2>folks like Leon and Mark, I mean everybody. At that point,

0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.360
<v Speaker 2>we were small enough that everybody weighed in on any investment.

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.199
<v Speaker 2>So I think there was a view that that all

0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.399
<v Speaker 2>of us had that you know that Veil was a

0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:20.160
<v Speaker 2>unique business. And then at that point it was Veil

0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:22.679
<v Speaker 2>in Beaver Creek that it was a unique business that

0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:26.199
<v Speaker 2>was really not being valued appropriately by people, and so

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.200
<v Speaker 2>we thought we could invest in it. So we closed

0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:31.280
<v Speaker 2>ultimately took control of that company at the end of

0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:35.359
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety two, and then in nineteen ninety six we

0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:38.640
<v Speaker 2>were taking the company public as Veil Resorts. And that's

0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 2>when I went on the board.

0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you went behind the years. You have any imposter syndrome?

0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, yes, in a lot of moments, you know,

0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:54.199
<v Speaker 2>especially because I was pretty young, and so you know,

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.000
<v Speaker 2>it was often that people treated me as as young,

0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 2>and I think, yeah, I had out of half imposter

0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.560
<v Speaker 2>syndrome and half a little bit of a chip on

0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.320
<v Speaker 2>my shoulder that you know, that I could carry my

0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.639
<v Speaker 2>own even though I was young. And so you know,

0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I tried to kind of go back and forth between

0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 2>those two.

0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Things and what were the issues back then running Bill

0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:19.359
<v Speaker 1>Resorts Bill Associates, Yeah, how we.

0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Could turn it into a more consistent business, right it

0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.120
<v Speaker 2>was it was about like how do we skiing? At

0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.520
<v Speaker 2>that point, people who own ski resorts, for the most part,

0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:33.440
<v Speaker 2>either use them to sell real estate at the base

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.640
<v Speaker 2>of the ski resort or they were just a complete hobby,

0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of trophy asset like a sports team.

0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:44.359
<v Speaker 2>And so we were trying to do we were trying

0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:47.040
<v Speaker 2>to make the ski business itself the main business and

0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:49.239
<v Speaker 2>not real estate, and we were trying to run it

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:53.600
<v Speaker 2>more professionally, not like, you know, like just just a toy.

0:25:55.200 --> 0:25:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Whose idea was it to focus on the mountain

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:00.480
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to real estate date.

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I think I think actually George Gillette, I think probably

0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:09.160
<v Speaker 2>before we owned it, I think started some of that,

0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.320
<v Speaker 2>But then we really felt like, you know, the real

0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:17.320
<v Speaker 2>estate development business was just a very different business and

0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:20.359
<v Speaker 2>and that we could you know that ultimately skiing, just

0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:24.840
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of other parts of travel hotels, resorts, casinos,

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 2>cruise lines, like there's there should be a place in

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:32.080
<v Speaker 2>that for for a ski resort. And so, you know,

0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 2>I think we decided that that's where we were going

0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:35.440
<v Speaker 2>to focus. And one of the big ways that we

0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:39.159
<v Speaker 2>wound up making a kind of decision or investment behind

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 2>that was when we bought Keystone and Breckinridge. Uh, you know,

0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 2>because once we did that, then obviously we were making

0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:48.760
<v Speaker 2>an even bigger bat on the broader.

0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Skis inherently skiing is a seasonal business. You have all

0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:59.320
<v Speaker 1>this money, Why invest in such a challenged business that

0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:03.399
<v Speaker 1>has a imited time span and it's depending on mother nature?

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think that is that's long, you know,

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:10.880
<v Speaker 2>has long been the challenge within the industry is why

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:14.080
<v Speaker 2>do that? I think I think the seasonal component of

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 2>the business is unique, but it's also not. We're not

0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:19.960
<v Speaker 2>the only business that is seasonal. So lots of parts

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:23.119
<v Speaker 2>of travel, you know, are seasonal as well. Obviously, you know,

0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:27.320
<v Speaker 2>there's amazing you know travel, you know, businesses and in

0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 2>warm weather locations that in the you know are great

0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:32.879
<v Speaker 2>in our winter, but in this our summer, you know,

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:34.880
<v Speaker 2>don't make any sense. I think one of the benefits,

0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:37.960
<v Speaker 2>at least of ski resorts is that they're pretty amazing

0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:40.719
<v Speaker 2>places to travel in both the winter and the summer,

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 2>even though you don't ski in the summer. So I

0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:45.480
<v Speaker 2>think that gave us some confidence that there was some

0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:48.440
<v Speaker 2>year round support and you could, even if we weren't

0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:50.359
<v Speaker 2>going to make the money in the summer, there were

0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:52.920
<v Speaker 2>jobs for people, so you could have more consistent employment.

0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 2>Things like that. I think all the weather, Yeah, that

0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:59.239
<v Speaker 2>was that that was a challenge, and I think we

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.720
<v Speaker 2>initially felt like the way to try and diversify was

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:06.159
<v Speaker 2>maybe buying more resorts, being in other businesses. So we

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.560
<v Speaker 2>initially spent a bunch of time investing in lodging, investing

0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:15.080
<v Speaker 2>in retail, but no until we really put out the

0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Epic Pass, you know, which is a little ways after that. Yeah,

0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:22.760
<v Speaker 2>I think the business still traded at a pretty reduced

0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 2>multiple because of them.

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:28.640
<v Speaker 1>We're in this picture. Do you meet your wife?

0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:34.000
<v Speaker 3>I met my wife in let's see in nineteen ninety two,

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:38.840
<v Speaker 3>and actually she was with me when we made the

0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 3>first investment and when we closed our investment in Veil

0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 3>back in nineteen ninety two.

0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:46.640
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, my wife unfortunately passed away earlier this year.

0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh God, trying to hear that.

0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 2>That's okay, But yeah, she's very much always with me

0:28:54.840 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 2>because she you know, has Yeah, it has been on

0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:00.880
<v Speaker 2>this bail ride with me from the very beginning.

0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Was ill.

0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, she was.

0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately, So how do you cope with that?

0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's hard. It's not a simple thing, that's for sure.

0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:18.920
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I'm a I'm a big believer in

0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:24.479
<v Speaker 2>yeah that, you know, I don't know focusing on your

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:27.840
<v Speaker 2>own emotions, focusing on your own mental well being. I

0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:29.880
<v Speaker 2>mean this was all before I went through the last

0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:33.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, a couple of years with her. It's critical

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 2>so and that I think that plus yeah, amazing, you know,

0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:41.120
<v Speaker 2>family with both of my kids and the relationship that

0:29:41.160 --> 0:29:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I have with both of them. Lots of other family,

0:29:42.920 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>lots of friends, colleagues, Yeah, like anyone. That's how you

0:29:46.920 --> 0:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>get through, you know, the tough times.

0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but you go home there's no one there.

0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:58.320
<v Speaker 2>That's true. That's not easy, but you know, you learn

0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:00.680
<v Speaker 2>that life. There's a lot of things that happened in

0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:03.400
<v Speaker 2>your life that you are amazed by and you feel

0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:05.360
<v Speaker 2>like are good fortune. And there are things that happened

0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 2>that are tougher. And yeah, I think for me, at

0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:13.080
<v Speaker 2>least I try and you know, understand that that's going

0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:16.280
<v Speaker 2>to be part of the journey, you know, one way

0:30:16.360 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 2>or the other. But not easy, that's for sure. Not easy.

0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Did that have any factor in you coming back to

0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:30.960
<v Speaker 1>the CEO job.

0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Not really, I think, uh, you know, I think at

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:43.280
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, the you know, the board

0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>made a decision that they thought it was time to

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.240
<v Speaker 2>make a change, and once they did that, it was

0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:51.320
<v Speaker 2>really about for me. Obviously I was going to be

0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:53.840
<v Speaker 2>supporting the company no matter what, but did I want

0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:55.800
<v Speaker 2>to raise my hand to do this on a more

0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:59.400
<v Speaker 2>extended basis and more permanent basis. And for me it

0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:03.040
<v Speaker 2>was you know, yeah, less about my wife and what

0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:05.280
<v Speaker 2>happened there and much more about my passion for the

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:11.000
<v Speaker 2>company and the people who work here. Kind of understanding

0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 2>that maybe the better part of my entire working life

0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 2>has been associated with skiing in one you know, shape

0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:23.959
<v Speaker 2>or another, And yeah, that I wanted to see, you know,

0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 2>through this next phase of the sport.

0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what are all the revenue streams of bill resorts?

0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:34.080
<v Speaker 1>To this point, you say you're focusing on the mountain,

0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:38.000
<v Speaker 1>which of course is lift tickets, ski school, food. But

0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:41.080
<v Speaker 1>you hang out and Veil long enough and they say, well,

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:45.360
<v Speaker 1>Veil owns these retail shops. So what are all the

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:46.520
<v Speaker 1>revenue streams?

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I think on the mountain it's obviously lift

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:55.360
<v Speaker 2>tickets and you know season passes are you know, lift

0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:58.800
<v Speaker 2>access in total right or critical plus? Yeah, then you've

0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.360
<v Speaker 2>got ski school and food you know, up on the mountain.

0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Then we have rentals, which is a big business and

0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot that we think we can change there. Uh,

0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and then in the base we also have I call

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.840
<v Speaker 2>it like more specialty technical retail stores. That's part of

0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 2>our business. We're we're not really in broader you know,

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:20.640
<v Speaker 2>the further way you get from technical you know, ski

0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:22.600
<v Speaker 2>gear and stuff like that. It's not really where we

0:32:22.640 --> 0:32:26.479
<v Speaker 2>play in our retail business. We do have a collection

0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:29.040
<v Speaker 2>of hotels, We do have a collection of condos that

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:32.680
<v Speaker 2>we manage, so that makes up our hospitality business. But

0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>but we are really a ski company and we you know,

0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:37.480
<v Speaker 2>have circled back to that over the years, we've thought

0:32:37.480 --> 0:32:41.000
<v Speaker 2>about the company has tried different ways to expand, We've

0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:43.280
<v Speaker 2>thought about are there different ways for us to expand,

0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:46.520
<v Speaker 2>And in all of those scenarios, we really come back

0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 2>to know at our core, the thing we do better

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:51.840
<v Speaker 2>than anyone else in the world is skiing and stillboarding.

0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:56.320
<v Speaker 1>So what percentage of revenue is driven from the hill,

0:32:56.880 --> 0:33:03.120
<v Speaker 1>lift tickets, food and ski school rentals, not retail, not accommodations.

0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't have it off the top of my head,

0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:08.680
<v Speaker 2>but but yeah, the vast majority of our revenue does

0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 2>come from the mountain. So I mean it is you know,

0:33:12.520 --> 0:33:16.320
<v Speaker 2>i'd say off mountain off mountain retail and lodging is

0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:19.240
<v Speaker 2>a much smaller percentage, and I think even more even

0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:22.080
<v Speaker 2>smaller when you think about the profitability of those businesses

0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:23.680
<v Speaker 2>versus the profitability of the mountain.

0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, where are the growth opportunities in the ski industry?

0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think, you know, for us, I think it's

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:34.640
<v Speaker 2>on a couple of fronts. I believe actually that there

0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 2>we're going to see a sea change in the sport

0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 2>over the next five to ten years from what we've

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:41.920
<v Speaker 2>seen over the last ten to fifteen. So I think

0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:44.240
<v Speaker 2>what's defined the sport over the last you know, ten

0:33:44.280 --> 0:33:48.160
<v Speaker 2>to twenty years has been passes, right, and obviously US

0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:50.920
<v Speaker 2>coming up with the Epic Pass, and then Icon and

0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Mountain Collective and the Indie Pass here, and then you've

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>got other passes in Europe and elsewhere. That has been

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:00.440
<v Speaker 2>the defining feature. We've also seen a lot of investment

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.280
<v Speaker 2>go into the resorts, but most of that has gone

0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:06.680
<v Speaker 2>into lists and including for us, we've spent a huge

0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:08.839
<v Speaker 2>amount of money on loot. I think when you look

0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:10.680
<v Speaker 2>to the future, it's going to be different. First, I

0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:13.200
<v Speaker 2>think we've probably reached a little bit of a maturity

0:34:13.280 --> 0:34:17.400
<v Speaker 2>level on passes the last two years, we've seen actual

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.960
<v Speaker 2>declines in past visitation when you look at you know,

0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 2>the industry across America.

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:26.600
<v Speaker 1>But we are we talking about past sales or the

0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:28.840
<v Speaker 1>number of days people use the pass.

0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:31.560
<v Speaker 2>The number I'm talking on this one of the number

0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:34.759
<v Speaker 2>of days people visit on a path. So we've seen

0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:39.360
<v Speaker 2>that actually decline versus increases actually in visitation from lifting.

0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:43.239
<v Speaker 2>It's that's the first time we've seen that in years too.

0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:46.000
<v Speaker 2>You've seen obviously our you know, we had explosive past

0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:49.359
<v Speaker 2>growth over fifteen years, but even in the last four, right,

0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:53.960
<v Speaker 2>our past sales growth has been up fifty percent, But

0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:56.440
<v Speaker 2>over the last two years you've seen it decline, you know,

0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:59.480
<v Speaker 2>two percent to three percent. With Icon, you're seeing their

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:02.399
<v Speaker 2>pass to you know, kind of stabilize this year as well.

0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:04.600
<v Speaker 2>They're not growing what they were either, and so I

0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 2>think you're going to start to see a shift towards

0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:10.200
<v Speaker 2>lift tickets being actually the next focus area for us

0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:12.520
<v Speaker 2>and everyone else, which is how do you sell to

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:15.319
<v Speaker 2>the remaining people? Seventy five percent of our visits come

0:35:15.360 --> 0:35:17.799
<v Speaker 2>out of pass but that still leaves a big chunk

0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:19.960
<v Speaker 2>of the market out there. How do we now go

0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 2>after that? Market, how do we elevate the resort brands

0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 2>one by one rather than just the Epic brand. That's

0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:29.960
<v Speaker 2>one piece which we think, actually and I think COVID

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:33.879
<v Speaker 2>actually showed that there are a lot of people who

0:35:33.920 --> 0:35:37.160
<v Speaker 2>know how to ski. That's not really the huge issue.

0:35:37.239 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 2>The issue is how do we get them to the

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.040
<v Speaker 2>mountain in more years? How do we get them in

0:35:42.080 --> 0:35:44.120
<v Speaker 2>the years they come to ski more days, how do

0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:46.359
<v Speaker 2>we kind of continue to build that engagement. So that's

0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:48.719
<v Speaker 2>something we're very focused on. And then how do we

0:35:48.800 --> 0:35:52.320
<v Speaker 2>get the skiers who we have to bring their friends

0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:54.239
<v Speaker 2>and families, which is one of the reasons why this

0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:57.720
<v Speaker 2>year we introduced the Epic Friends Ticket, which gives fifty

0:35:57.760 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>percent off to any passholder if they bring somebody to

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:04.399
<v Speaker 2>the mountain on their lifting it. So that's something that's

0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:06.879
<v Speaker 2>really critical for us. The other piece is we think

0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 2>there's an opportunity to completely change how people use gear,

0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:14.120
<v Speaker 2>own gear, rent gear when they're going up on the mountain.

0:36:14.160 --> 0:36:17.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that is a part of everyone needs to

0:36:17.480 --> 0:36:19.319
<v Speaker 2>have gear before you can go up in the mountain, right,

0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:22.239
<v Speaker 2>that is a prerequisite. But you look at that market

0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and the way that business is set up and basically

0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:26.440
<v Speaker 2>you have a whole bunch of people who own gear

0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:29.600
<v Speaker 2>who don't use it that often. Even people who ski

0:36:29.760 --> 0:36:32.680
<v Speaker 2>ten days a year and own gear think they need

0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:34.880
<v Speaker 2>to own gear. Well, that gear is just sitting in

0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:38.239
<v Speaker 2>their closet for the other fifty one weeks of the year.

0:36:38.719 --> 0:36:41.400
<v Speaker 2>And obviously then you know, yes, there are a painful

0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:44.000
<v Speaker 2>of people that ski eighty days one hundred days a year. Sure,

0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:46.600
<v Speaker 2>owning gear makes sense. Then you've got all these people

0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:49.640
<v Speaker 2>who are renting gear and their gear rental process is

0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:52.600
<v Speaker 2>just not improved that much of the last fifty years.

0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:55.760
<v Speaker 2>They're not necessarily getting the best gear. It's not easy

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:58.560
<v Speaker 2>for them. You know, they don't know what ski or

0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:00.800
<v Speaker 2>booth they are going to get. And in our minds

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:03.359
<v Speaker 2>like that's right for a complete overhaul and something we're

0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:04.840
<v Speaker 2>going to be focused on quite a bit over the

0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:07.879
<v Speaker 2>next five years, that there's really no reason for most

0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:11.239
<v Speaker 2>people to own gear and everyone should be able to say, hey,

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:13.439
<v Speaker 2>I just want to know that the ski I want

0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:14.959
<v Speaker 2>and the food I want is going to be ready

0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:17.520
<v Speaker 2>for me at the mountain whenever I show up, and

0:37:18.239 --> 0:37:20.520
<v Speaker 2>we feel like, yeah, over the long haul, that's something

0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:23.600
<v Speaker 2>we can deliver on. Ski school is another one where

0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:27.840
<v Speaker 2>we see real growth by digitizing the experience. Another business

0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:31.240
<v Speaker 2>that has not changed, you know, again in twenty thirty years.

0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Obviously the course ski lesson is not going to change.

0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:38.640
<v Speaker 2>But we can track people's progress, right the instructor can

0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:41.520
<v Speaker 2>track their progress and provide that either to the guests

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 2>or to their parents. We can provide photos and video,

0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:48.239
<v Speaker 2>we can have video analysis. You know, all the things

0:37:48.239 --> 0:37:50.600
<v Speaker 2>that you're seeing that exist out there, but none of

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.400
<v Speaker 2>that has been brought into the ski industry that you know,

0:37:53.440 --> 0:37:55.600
<v Speaker 2>we think we can do. And the last piece i'd

0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:58.920
<v Speaker 2>say is even on the food side, I think I

0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:02.480
<v Speaker 2>think we lost our a little bit on food during COVID.

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Obviously we couldn't do what we wanted to do during COVID,

0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:07.400
<v Speaker 2>which is fine, but I don't think we fully brought

0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:10.680
<v Speaker 2>back what food service can be to the to our resorts.

0:38:10.719 --> 0:38:12.200
<v Speaker 2>And that's something we're going to be focused on. And

0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:14.879
<v Speaker 2>you see what's going on on food in all kinds

0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:17.239
<v Speaker 2>of entertainment venues, and I think the ski industry has

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:19.760
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to kind of follow that trend.

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, breaking it down, you talk about all these people

0:38:24.120 --> 0:38:27.360
<v Speaker 1>who know how to skate, what's the number one friction

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:32.160
<v Speaker 1>point that's preventing them from being on the hill.

0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:36.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what we see is that for the person who

0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:38.880
<v Speaker 2>knows how to ski, it's the ease of the vacation.

0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:42.080
<v Speaker 2>So I think people have a sense that it's still

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 2>a difficult vacation and gear is a big component of

0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:49.239
<v Speaker 2>that difficulty. So you know, if you own gear, then

0:38:49.280 --> 0:38:51.359
<v Speaker 2>you've got to schlep your gear to the resort. If

0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:53.200
<v Speaker 2>you don't own gear, then you've got to worry about

0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:55.240
<v Speaker 2>renting gear, and you don't know what you're going to get.

0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:57.360
<v Speaker 2>You don't know that you're to get the boot you want,

0:38:57.680 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 2>or even if you own boots, you don't know what

0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:01.560
<v Speaker 2>ski exactly to get what condition it's going to be,

0:39:01.760 --> 0:39:05.239
<v Speaker 2>And there's you're waiting online or you're you know all,

0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:07.440
<v Speaker 2>there's all these little pain points around gear that I

0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:10.520
<v Speaker 2>think are a real challenge. Two. For sure, there's a

0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:13.280
<v Speaker 2>I think a view of Yeah, people want to feel

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:15.799
<v Speaker 2>comfortable when they're up on the mountain. I do think

0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:20.400
<v Speaker 2>like there's been huge advances in both apparel technical apparel,

0:39:20.440 --> 0:39:22.959
<v Speaker 2>which you know certainly I know when you started skiing,

0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:26.520
<v Speaker 2>when I started skiing, went completely different. Uh, And then

0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:30.480
<v Speaker 2>on the booth. What huge change has happened in boots

0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:33.320
<v Speaker 2>that I think within the industry people kind of understand,

0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:35.080
<v Speaker 2>but outside the industry, I don't think people will realize,

0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:38.960
<v Speaker 2>which is the Boa buckle on boots. So Boa is

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:42.000
<v Speaker 2>a technology that was you know developed, I know it

0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:45.040
<v Speaker 2>because it's you know, it's used extensively on cycling shoes

0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:48.240
<v Speaker 2>where it's essentially a cable that runs through the shoe

0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:51.280
<v Speaker 2>and then you screw down the cable and then you

0:39:51.320 --> 0:39:53.040
<v Speaker 2>when it's time to release it, you kind of push

0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:55.239
<v Speaker 2>a button. It just releases and you can step out

0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:57.480
<v Speaker 2>of it. But it really creates a kind of custom

0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:02.560
<v Speaker 2>fit to the shoe. Well that was introduced into boots

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I think it was two years ago and has now

0:40:05.239 --> 0:40:08.560
<v Speaker 2>created this sea change. So three years ago, we're the

0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:11.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, one of the biggest specialty ski retailer in

0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the world. You know, three years ago we sold no

0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:16.120
<v Speaker 2>boots with the Boa buckle. Today, fifty percent of the

0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:19.560
<v Speaker 2>boots we sell have a Boa buckle because people really

0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:22.359
<v Speaker 2>perceive it to be so much more comfortable and customized.

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:25.759
<v Speaker 2>That is going to be a big change, and especially

0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:28.200
<v Speaker 2>as we were the first ones to introduce this into

0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:30.960
<v Speaker 2>our rental program. So once we do that, it really

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.920
<v Speaker 2>has an opportunity I think to make people realize that

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:37.120
<v Speaker 2>between the gear, between the apparel, between how we can

0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:39.680
<v Speaker 2>get the gear to you, Yeah, that we've eliminated a

0:40:39.719 --> 0:40:42.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of those pain points. Even the digitizing of ski school.

0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:45.359
<v Speaker 2>We think right now, when you drop your kid off

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:47.600
<v Speaker 2>at ski school, you wait in a line, you can't

0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:50.000
<v Speaker 2>find you an instructor. So we're coming up with ways

0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:52.640
<v Speaker 2>again using the same technology other people are doing to

0:40:52.719 --> 0:40:56.880
<v Speaker 2>make that much much quicker. So as a parent, you know,

0:40:57.000 --> 0:40:59.480
<v Speaker 2>yeah that when you're bringing your two or three kids

0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:02.160
<v Speaker 2>to the mountain, all these pain points can go away.

0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it's been well documented that baby boomers, who grew

0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:10.440
<v Speaker 1>up before the business was mature, when it was growing,

0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:14.799
<v Speaker 1>are reaching their sunset years. How do we get new

0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:17.040
<v Speaker 1>skiers into the industry.

0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think one of the great things is that

0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:23.839
<v Speaker 2>that's happened, you know, in many respects, because we are

0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:26.640
<v Speaker 2>seeing obviously we couldn't have had record years the last

0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:30.160
<v Speaker 2>couple of years without that, and we are seeing you know,

0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:33.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of what the people call the echo boom, right

0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:35.280
<v Speaker 2>the kids of the baby boomers. And what we're seeing

0:41:35.400 --> 0:41:37.759
<v Speaker 2>is is that we you know, the think we owe

0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:40.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot to two trends. We talked about the season

0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:43.799
<v Speaker 2>past tun which I think has helped, you know, keep engagement.

0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:47.319
<v Speaker 2>But the much bigger trend was really Jake Burton, right,

0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:51.080
<v Speaker 2>and Jake Jake Burton inventing the snowboard when he did,

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and of course everyone hated it, you know, all the

0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:57.600
<v Speaker 2>industry you know, kind of existing folks, and it was

0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.640
<v Speaker 2>banned across so many resorts. But of course, you know,

0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:03.240
<v Speaker 2>rather than it being like a problem for the ski industry,

0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:07.319
<v Speaker 2>and saved this games and introduced not just snowboarding, but

0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 2>then action sports and the X Games and the Do

0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Tour and you know, Red Bull and whatever. Right, all

0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:17.520
<v Speaker 2>of that during the winter, that kind of you know,

0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:21.839
<v Speaker 2>action sports dynamic happens on ski resorts, and I think

0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:26.160
<v Speaker 2>that created this connection. Plus the athletes like Sean White

0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:29.000
<v Speaker 2>and everybody's come after him on that side of the sport.

0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:33.839
<v Speaker 2>Plus including all those action sports in the Olympics, which

0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:38.320
<v Speaker 2>we'll you know, see this year. Those things really provided energy.

0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:40.640
<v Speaker 2>So all of a sudden, I think as you were

0:42:41.160 --> 0:42:43.799
<v Speaker 2>the kid of a baby boomer, you had, you know,

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:46.000
<v Speaker 2>it was cool to go on the mountain again, and

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:49.239
<v Speaker 2>the terrain parks. I think, I'm sure you'll remember this pub.

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Like used to be that if like kids tried to

0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:55.840
<v Speaker 2>make a feature, you know, create a job, or create

0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, a rail or use a log to you know,

0:42:58.200 --> 0:43:00.759
<v Speaker 2>do tricks on the ski resorts would come by and

0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:03.600
<v Speaker 2>mow them all down, and you know, because they thought

0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:05.640
<v Speaker 2>it was a hazard. And now obviously the ski resorts

0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 2>are creating these things, and so those kids have a

0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:10.480
<v Speaker 2>sense that they are placed on the mountain, that they

0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:13.080
<v Speaker 2>can go that no parent is going to go through

0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:16.000
<v Speaker 2>right there, and that I think has that separation and

0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 2>that identity piece has helped a lot. So I actually

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:21.359
<v Speaker 2>think we're in a really good spot there. I think

0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:23.640
<v Speaker 2>where we're not at a good spot as a sport

0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:28.160
<v Speaker 2>is that the industry is, yeah, just predominantly white, like

0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:31.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, and and so we have not made inroads

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:37.839
<v Speaker 2>in yeah, minority communities here, especially the African American and

0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:42.719
<v Speaker 2>the Latino community, and that I think, you know, even yes,

0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:45.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, people bring up, oh there's income, Yeah, there's

0:43:45.040 --> 0:43:46.600
<v Speaker 2>a piece of that, but if you're just for income,

0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:49.919
<v Speaker 2>the sport is still wildly underrepresented there. But that's where

0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:53.239
<v Speaker 2>all the growth is coming. Population growth and so I

0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:56.840
<v Speaker 2>do think the sport ultimately has to find ways to

0:43:56.840 --> 0:44:00.000
<v Speaker 2>to be more welcoming and to bring in a broad

0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:01.880
<v Speaker 2>set of communities. I mean that's going to be critical

0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:03.880
<v Speaker 2>as you think about the next ten to twenty years.

0:44:04.200 --> 0:44:06.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I was growing up in the sixties and seventies.

0:44:06.960 --> 0:44:10.920
<v Speaker 1>I said skiing was cool. It was a middle class sport.

0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Needless to say, there wasn't the income an equality of today.

0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:19.200
<v Speaker 1>If you say you're a skier today, unless the person

0:44:19.200 --> 0:44:22.239
<v Speaker 1>you're speaking with is also a skier, they're immediately going

0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:25.279
<v Speaker 1>to speak of the cost. They say, oh, you're rich,

0:44:25.440 --> 0:44:29.800
<v Speaker 1>You're going skiing, You're rich, when really skiing has never

0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:36.040
<v Speaker 1>been less expensive, primarily because of these passes. How can

0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:41.239
<v Speaker 1>this narrative be changed? How can people see that it's

0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:44.120
<v Speaker 1>not so expensive, which will then lower the hurdle to

0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:45.600
<v Speaker 1>them participate in.

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think it's like i'd say, it's two pieces,

0:44:49.800 --> 0:44:52.600
<v Speaker 2>and I agree with you, Bob about that. I think,

0:44:53.200 --> 0:44:55.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, look, the good news is we've seen a

0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:59.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of increase in demand for ski resorts, especially amongst

0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:02.800
<v Speaker 2>high and travelers, and there are no new ski resorts

0:45:02.840 --> 0:45:05.839
<v Speaker 2>being created, So it does create a you know, kind

0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:09.799
<v Speaker 2>of unique supply demand dynamic that has pushed pricing up.

0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:12.120
<v Speaker 2>I think it's what you say is right, and I

0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:14.960
<v Speaker 2>think it's on us to continue to go out there

0:45:15.000 --> 0:45:17.080
<v Speaker 2>promoting the fact that, you know, if you buy a pass,

0:45:17.440 --> 0:45:20.600
<v Speaker 2>you're skiing at prices, whether it's a one day pass

0:45:20.719 --> 0:45:23.439
<v Speaker 2>or full season pass, you're skiing on prices that, yeah,

0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.400
<v Speaker 2>are one of the best values in any part of travel,

0:45:26.560 --> 0:45:29.520
<v Speaker 2>for sure, But there are other parts, like certainly taking

0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:34.120
<v Speaker 2>the lesson is expensive, and you know, certainly buying food

0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:35.879
<v Speaker 2>on the mountain is expensive, and we could talk about

0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:38.000
<v Speaker 2>each one, but there are aspects, and you have to

0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:40.680
<v Speaker 2>buy gears. So when you compare going you know, on

0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:43.360
<v Speaker 2>a ski vacation to some of their options, it's a

0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:46.279
<v Speaker 2>little tougher. Now that said, really important to remember, like

0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:48.640
<v Speaker 2>as I brought up, like I started skiing at Hunter Mountain.

0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I did not start skiing at Veil. Most people don't

0:45:51.719 --> 0:45:55.360
<v Speaker 2>start their ski you know, journey at Veil or Park City.

0:45:56.120 --> 0:46:00.360
<v Speaker 2>And actually it's still pretty reasonable right to go to

0:46:00.480 --> 0:46:03.840
<v Speaker 2>most of these small resorts either for both for lift tickets,

0:46:03.880 --> 0:46:08.320
<v Speaker 2>lift tickets and rental packages, lift tickets, rental and food packages.

0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:11.840
<v Speaker 2>So it's at all these smaller resorts and local resorts

0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:13.919
<v Speaker 2>that you know, we have to make sure that the

0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:17.279
<v Speaker 2>that yeah, being able to come into the sport remains available.

0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:21.280
<v Speaker 2>And you know, our mantra is, we want to make skiing.

0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:23.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, we came up with the Epic for Everyone

0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:26.719
<v Speaker 2>a while back because we want to make this yeah,

0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:30.080
<v Speaker 2>really open and inclusive opportunity for everybody. Now that said,

0:46:30.200 --> 0:46:32.920
<v Speaker 2>it's expensive, like to run a ski resort, and it's

0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:36.680
<v Speaker 2>expensive to you know, run a mountain restaurant that is

0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:40.359
<v Speaker 2>so costly to build at twelve thousand feet and that

0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:43.160
<v Speaker 2>you only run one meal a day for four months.

0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:44.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, like it's hard to make money in the

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.759
<v Speaker 2>restaurant business doing that. So there are things that are

0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:50.160
<v Speaker 2>not going to be cheap. But but you know, look,

0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:52.440
<v Speaker 2>you can show up on the mountain buying a discounted

0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:55.400
<v Speaker 2>lift ticket or buying a path, put a sandwich in

0:46:55.440 --> 0:46:58.120
<v Speaker 2>your pocket, and you're skiing next to a billion narrative

0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:04.719
<v Speaker 2>fraction of the cost.

0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:11.360
<v Speaker 1>But why are lessons at Veil the major resorts not

0:47:11.440 --> 0:47:15.439
<v Speaker 1>the feeder resorts. Why are they so expensive? I grew

0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:18.719
<v Speaker 1>up when if you took a group lesson, it was

0:47:18.800 --> 0:47:21.239
<v Speaker 1>more about whether you wanted to do it or not.

0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Take instruction. Private lessons were always more expensive. But if

0:47:26.520 --> 0:47:29.399
<v Speaker 1>you're a kid going to ski school, I'm talking about

0:47:29.400 --> 0:47:33.080
<v Speaker 1>a young kid, four or six whatever, and you have

0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:37.439
<v Speaker 1>no equipment, it's basically five hundred dollars a day, which

0:47:37.480 --> 0:47:42.759
<v Speaker 1>is a pretty significant cost.

0:47:43.239 --> 0:47:46.000
<v Speaker 2>For a group lesson at veil As five hundred dollars

0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:49.480
<v Speaker 2>a day. That sounds a little bit, but whatever, we're

0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:50.080
<v Speaker 2>a four.

0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:53.320
<v Speaker 1>To six year old in our condo and it's basically

0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:56.239
<v Speaker 1>four hundred and fifty foot I didn't believe it myself,

0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:59.719
<v Speaker 1>but once you look at the statistics, you know they

0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:02.880
<v Speaker 1>get equipment whatever. It literally is that expensive.

0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, with rentals, yeah it could be, and with

0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:09.799
<v Speaker 2>skiing it could be. I guess what i'd say is

0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:11.600
<v Speaker 2>it is there's a part of this that is the

0:48:11.640 --> 0:48:14.040
<v Speaker 2>supplied demand piece. So we actually, i'd say there's some

0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:20.680
<v Speaker 2>pretty compelling opportunities to get when you combine lift access

0:48:20.760 --> 0:48:25.040
<v Speaker 2>and lessons together, and you can get rentals as part

0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:27.359
<v Speaker 2>of all of that. And I think, you know, we'd

0:48:27.360 --> 0:48:29.080
<v Speaker 2>have to look at the time off year you're going,

0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:31.520
<v Speaker 2>but I know that there are some pretty compelling opportunities

0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:33.960
<v Speaker 2>at most of our resorts. But there is a piece

0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:36.280
<v Speaker 2>that yeah, like we have a there is a certain

0:48:36.320 --> 0:48:38.360
<v Speaker 2>limit on capacity in terms of how many kids we

0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:41.839
<v Speaker 2>can actually bring in, and so there's the yeah, there's

0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:44.920
<v Speaker 2>a cost piece to it. And it's also you know,

0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:47.640
<v Speaker 2>as we I like to remind people, despite the fact

0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:49.480
<v Speaker 2>that you know, we've done a lot with passes to

0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:53.000
<v Speaker 2>make the sport more stable, the truth is is that, yeah,

0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:55.080
<v Speaker 2>our business still goes up and down based on the weather,

0:48:55.120 --> 0:48:57.319
<v Speaker 2>which is a little trickier. But if you look at

0:48:57.320 --> 0:48:59.880
<v Speaker 2>every part of the travel business, and I'm sure you know,

0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:03.440
<v Speaker 2>and you're traveling at peak times, it's expensive. But that

0:49:03.560 --> 0:49:06.960
<v Speaker 2>is just the reality of how how you know, I

0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:09.960
<v Speaker 2>think life has gone during that. But and by the way,

0:49:10.080 --> 0:49:11.960
<v Speaker 2>even if you went to Keystone, it would be a

0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:15.839
<v Speaker 2>hell of a lot less expensive than going to Veil.

0:49:16.000 --> 0:49:18.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean a Veil and Beaver Creek. You're at, you know,

0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:20.720
<v Speaker 2>two of the best resorts on the planet, and everything

0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:22.040
<v Speaker 2>is going to be a little bit more.

0:49:23.680 --> 0:49:27.400
<v Speaker 1>Those of us who've been around, no, certainly at Deer

0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:31.399
<v Speaker 1>Valley and Sun Valley and Snowbasin who have the same

0:49:31.440 --> 0:49:36.359
<v Speaker 1>owner of the holding family, the food is spectacular. How

0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:38.480
<v Speaker 1>come that could never be replicated A.

0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:44.759
<v Speaker 2>Veil well, I would I would tend to say that

0:49:44.800 --> 0:49:46.960
<v Speaker 2>there are places within Veil that I think the food

0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:50.120
<v Speaker 2>is really amazing. You know, certainly if you're going to

0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:52.120
<v Speaker 2>two out obviously if you're going to be sitting down

0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:54.600
<v Speaker 2>at the time. Figuring to wild Wood, I think no

0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:57.359
<v Speaker 2>doubt that Eagle's Nest and Midvale, I think there are

0:49:57.360 --> 0:49:59.680
<v Speaker 2>opportunities for us to you know, definitely improve there. But

0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:03.160
<v Speaker 2>over to Beaver Creek, I think you'd see very similar food,

0:50:03.280 --> 0:50:07.440
<v Speaker 2>absolutely as good food as Sun Valley or Snowbasin or

0:50:07.600 --> 0:50:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Deer Valley. I think those resorts it's important to remember

0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:15.560
<v Speaker 2>right Vale Park City, Whistler, Breckinridge, these resorts are much

0:50:15.680 --> 0:50:18.160
<v Speaker 2>much larger. They do many many more people, and one

0:50:18.200 --> 0:50:20.399
<v Speaker 2>of the prioritiestr USS is to make sure that we're

0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:22.640
<v Speaker 2>moving as many people as we count through the restaurants,

0:50:22.680 --> 0:50:25.239
<v Speaker 2>and the people have a way to sit, and it

0:50:25.320 --> 0:50:28.000
<v Speaker 2>is a little bit harder to get the high touch service.

0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:29.560
<v Speaker 2>But if you go to a North Star, if you

0:50:29.640 --> 0:50:33.239
<v Speaker 2>go to a Beaver Creek, yeah you're gonna get that

0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:36.239
<v Speaker 2>same experience that you get at some of these other resorts.

0:50:36.760 --> 0:50:39.000
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, if you want to if you want more

0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:41.920
<v Speaker 2>big Mountain scheme, right, which is a little different, and

0:50:41.960 --> 0:50:44.359
<v Speaker 2>you want that kind of larger experience, then no, you're

0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:47.000
<v Speaker 2>gonna get. But I would put yeah, the overall experience

0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:49.359
<v Speaker 2>a bail up against any resort in the world when

0:50:49.360 --> 0:50:53.040
<v Speaker 2>you include everything the terrain, the food, the lyft network,

0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:54.959
<v Speaker 2>the quality of the lift, the quality of the snow.

0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:57.000
<v Speaker 2>That to us is like you have to look at

0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:57.480
<v Speaker 2>it in total.

0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you talk about lifts. You referenced for a long

0:51:04.640 --> 0:51:10.239
<v Speaker 1>time Veil was announcing after the ski Seeson began new

0:51:10.320 --> 0:51:14.200
<v Speaker 1>lifts here and there. That has tapered off. Is that

0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:20.239
<v Speaker 1>a result of the lowering of the stock price. What

0:51:20.280 --> 0:51:22.600
<v Speaker 1>will we be thinking, you know, both in terms of

0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:25.040
<v Speaker 1>expansion and replacement going forward.

0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:29.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, not at all. We have not. We have

0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:31.839
<v Speaker 2>not gotten ease back on that at all. I think

0:51:32.400 --> 0:51:36.600
<v Speaker 2>in twenty one twenty two, we announced what we called

0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:40.000
<v Speaker 2>the Epic Lift Upgrade, where we literally I think upgrade.

0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:41.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it was I have to remember the exact numbers,

0:51:41.800 --> 0:51:44.440
<v Speaker 2>like twenty lefs across the network. We spent like three

0:51:44.560 --> 0:51:48.120
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty million dollars per year or something. A

0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:50.560
<v Speaker 2>huge investment. I mean, I would say, I think when

0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:53.920
<v Speaker 2>you look at fail even at fail right. Over the

0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:55.799
<v Speaker 2>last four to five years, you've seen a lot of

0:51:55.800 --> 0:51:59.279
<v Speaker 2>new lifts go in so much that when you think

0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:03.040
<v Speaker 2>about Vail As Mountain, there are very few lifts that

0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:05.600
<v Speaker 2>are left to upgrade, right, And you think about the

0:52:05.640 --> 0:52:07.480
<v Speaker 2>new lift that went into the back Balls you know

0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:10.440
<v Speaker 2>now called seventeen. You think about the upgraded chair and

0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Game Creek, you think about obviously the upgraded Northwoods upgraded

0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Chair four. Obviously going back further, the Gondol upgraded seventeen.

0:52:17.920 --> 0:52:21.160
<v Speaker 2>So now the question is like where on Veil. You know,

0:52:21.239 --> 0:52:24.640
<v Speaker 2>there's there's almost no fixed grip lifts anymore. Everything's high speed.

0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:27.640
<v Speaker 2>We've upgraded a lot of the highest traffic lifts from

0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:31.560
<v Speaker 2>four to six person. So now the question is, well,

0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:33.520
<v Speaker 2>where do you focus on the experience and where can

0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:37.120
<v Speaker 2>you make a difference. You know that to us is

0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:39.960
<v Speaker 2>it's we're not backing off at all. And obviously, you

0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:41.560
<v Speaker 2>know you look at the number of lists we put

0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:45.640
<v Speaker 2>in across our what we'll call our big destination resorts, Keystone, Breckenridge,

0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:49.879
<v Speaker 2>Beaver Creek, Vale, Park City, and Whistler. Yeah, I mean

0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:52.960
<v Speaker 2>that those you could put those mountains up against any

0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:54.960
<v Speaker 2>mountain in the world in terms of the quality of

0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:58.960
<v Speaker 2>their lift network and the investment that's been put in,

0:52:58.960 --> 0:53:03.400
<v Speaker 2>and there are unrival But but yeah, like at some

0:53:03.480 --> 0:53:05.640
<v Speaker 2>point it's what I said earlier, Like I think that

0:53:05.760 --> 0:53:07.799
<v Speaker 2>where we have to invest as a company is not

0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:11.040
<v Speaker 2>necessarily just in lifts. We have to use technology in

0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:15.080
<v Speaker 2>a completely different way. I think skiing is a sport

0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:18.680
<v Speaker 2>that it lends itself to using technology again to remove

0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:22.120
<v Speaker 2>the pain points, you know, making sure, making it easy

0:53:22.200 --> 0:53:24.600
<v Speaker 2>to do all the things that you're doing on the mountain,

0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:27.520
<v Speaker 2>to buy your ticket, buy your path, to buy ski school,

0:53:27.560 --> 0:53:30.520
<v Speaker 2>to reserve something, to see what food is available, to

0:53:30.640 --> 0:53:33.520
<v Speaker 2>rent skis, all of these things are things that you know.

0:53:33.560 --> 0:53:36.080
<v Speaker 2>You should never be waiting on a line. You should

0:53:36.120 --> 0:53:38.360
<v Speaker 2>never be waiting on a line for lift tickets. You

0:53:38.400 --> 0:53:42.640
<v Speaker 2>should be able to navigate the entire mountain understanding all

0:53:42.640 --> 0:53:45.719
<v Speaker 2>of you know, where there's lift lines or not. That

0:53:45.840 --> 0:53:48.520
<v Speaker 2>technology piece, I think we've made great strides in this

0:53:49.000 --> 0:53:52.680
<v Speaker 2>beginning those works and efforts, but we're nowhere near like

0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:54.960
<v Speaker 2>best in class, and that to me is as important

0:53:55.000 --> 0:53:57.200
<v Speaker 2>as that either. But the lift piece, I think it veiled.

0:53:57.440 --> 0:53:59.279
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you have an idea of a lifted veilue you

0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:00.960
<v Speaker 2>want to replace, But.

0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:04.880
<v Speaker 1>No, when I come to Veil, I'm listen what people

0:54:04.960 --> 0:54:08.520
<v Speaker 1>don't realize about Veil other than a couple of beginner lists.

0:54:08.960 --> 0:54:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Every single lift is a high speed lift and has

0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:17.120
<v Speaker 1>been for a while now. Some other resorts are starting

0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:20.399
<v Speaker 1>to catch up. But as I say, when you talk

0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:23.439
<v Speaker 1>about the lift network at Veil, it's beyond belief, which

0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:29.359
<v Speaker 1>brings me to another issue, which is perception. Okay, they

0:54:29.480 --> 0:54:33.960
<v Speaker 1>show pictures go viral online of the lines at the

0:54:34.000 --> 0:54:37.279
<v Speaker 1>gondola on a powder day. Little do people know people

0:54:37.280 --> 0:54:39.239
<v Speaker 1>are lining up at six thirty in the morning, the

0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:43.319
<v Speaker 1>lift isn't even open. Then there are pictures in the

0:54:43.360 --> 0:54:48.279
<v Speaker 1>back bowls chair five before chair seventeen was installed on

0:54:48.360 --> 0:54:51.560
<v Speaker 1>a powder day people go to ski sun up sundown

0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:55.040
<v Speaker 1>bowls and it created a line. Not only is there

0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:58.120
<v Speaker 1>a new lift for someone like me, that's the last

0:54:58.200 --> 0:55:00.960
<v Speaker 1>place I'm going to go on a powder day because

0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:05.480
<v Speaker 1>I know more people are going to go there. So

0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:14.279
<v Speaker 1>this perception a Veil as being an overcrowded, not consumer

0:55:14.440 --> 0:55:20.480
<v Speaker 1>oriented company. The whipping boy. Is it something that you

0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:23.400
<v Speaker 1>shrug your shoulders and say there's nothing I can do

0:55:23.560 --> 0:55:25.680
<v Speaker 1>about it, or can you turn it around? I mean,

0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:29.480
<v Speaker 1>just at Veil, the chair five at second iteration was

0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:32.520
<v Speaker 1>a triple for decades. You wanted to upgrade it too

0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:35.160
<v Speaker 1>high speed. All the locals went berserk. Oh the ski

0:55:35.200 --> 0:55:37.160
<v Speaker 1>of the powder is going to be skied out. Whatever

0:55:37.520 --> 0:55:42.320
<v Speaker 1>turn it into high speed. No one ever said another word.

0:55:43.480 --> 0:55:47.920
<v Speaker 1>So the locals don't like change. Is this something that

0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:50.279
<v Speaker 1>you just have to shrug your shoulders or is there

0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:52.080
<v Speaker 1>any way to turn this around?

0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:57.360
<v Speaker 2>I think yeah. So obviously I've been around the industry

0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:00.759
<v Speaker 2>and Veil resorts a long time, and so for me one,

0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:04.319
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying about Veil and about crowding is exactly right,

0:56:04.360 --> 0:56:07.919
<v Speaker 2>which is I think I tell people all the time

0:56:08.080 --> 0:56:13.440
<v Speaker 2>that we're not We're not trying to avoid, right, some crowds.

0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes that's the reality of having a popular place that

0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:20.239
<v Speaker 2>people want to go to and what it's like on

0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:23.759
<v Speaker 2>a peak moment. You know, you know, I don't know,

0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:26.319
<v Speaker 2>I've traveled a lot. I know you do tubea like

0:56:26.680 --> 0:56:30.040
<v Speaker 2>anywhere I go between christmin years, Christmas and years is crowded,

0:56:31.040 --> 0:56:33.120
<v Speaker 2>and so you know, or by the way you go

0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:35.640
<v Speaker 2>to a try and get into like a playoff game

0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:38.439
<v Speaker 2>in any sport, it's crowded. Go to the super Bowl,

0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:41.120
<v Speaker 2>it's crowded. Try and get across Manhattan at rush hour,

0:56:41.160 --> 0:56:44.719
<v Speaker 2>it's crowded. Like I think, in the end, our job

0:56:44.800 --> 0:56:48.840
<v Speaker 2>is to constantly be making improvements and ensure that while

0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:52.160
<v Speaker 2>it may make for good social media content for a moment,

0:56:53.120 --> 0:56:54.680
<v Speaker 2>in the end of the day, the guests who were

0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:57.279
<v Speaker 2>there that day, they understand that the totality of the

0:56:57.320 --> 0:57:00.160
<v Speaker 2>experiences such that they like it now. By the way,

0:57:00.480 --> 0:57:02.600
<v Speaker 2>of course, like there are people who say our resorts

0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:05.560
<v Speaker 2>are too expensive and too crowded, Well, that doesn't make

0:57:05.560 --> 0:57:07.840
<v Speaker 2>any sense. There are people who say that our resorts

0:57:07.880 --> 0:57:10.319
<v Speaker 2>are so crowded we've ruined the sport and no one

0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:14.120
<v Speaker 2>goes anymore. That doesn't make any sense either. Obviously, if

0:57:14.120 --> 0:57:17.800
<v Speaker 2>we're too crowded, it's because people are coming. Ninety seven

0:57:17.800 --> 0:57:19.840
<v Speaker 2>percent of our lift lines are less than ten minutes.

0:57:19.880 --> 0:57:23.360
<v Speaker 2>As that I am sure you remember skiing back in

0:57:23.400 --> 0:57:26.880
<v Speaker 2>the day. Yes, you waited way longer on a lift

0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:28.920
<v Speaker 2>line than you ever do today because the lists were

0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:31.920
<v Speaker 2>so slow. In terms of the perception thing, I think

0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:36.280
<v Speaker 2>there's a component of our company that by our very existence,

0:57:37.480 --> 0:57:40.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, brings on a lot of this negativity and

0:57:40.920 --> 0:57:43.440
<v Speaker 2>that part of it I do shrug my shoulders down,

0:57:43.880 --> 0:57:45.920
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think that there's really much I can

0:57:45.960 --> 0:57:48.840
<v Speaker 2>do about the fact that people take pleasure in showing

0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:51.200
<v Speaker 2>those photos or trying to make fun of Veil at

0:57:51.240 --> 0:57:53.840
<v Speaker 2>different times. But there's also things that we do that

0:57:54.080 --> 0:57:56.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think don't go well and where we

0:57:57.000 --> 0:57:59.480
<v Speaker 2>own it and we have responsibility, and I think our

0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:02.120
<v Speaker 2>company can do a much better job of avoiding those

0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:07.000
<v Speaker 2>moments when those moments happen, rectifying them quickly, and most importantly,

0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:10.760
<v Speaker 2>communicating better with people. And I think one of the

0:58:10.800 --> 0:58:13.240
<v Speaker 2>things when I look back, you know, especially of this

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:16.160
<v Speaker 2>last year, is that, you know, I think our company

0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:18.560
<v Speaker 2>has to do a better job of both owning the

0:58:18.640 --> 0:58:22.240
<v Speaker 2>issues through and through, you know, and not making any

0:58:22.600 --> 0:58:25.600
<v Speaker 2>excuses or bones about it, but then also standing up

0:58:25.600 --> 0:58:28.040
<v Speaker 2>for ourselves about all the great things that we do

0:58:28.120 --> 0:58:31.080
<v Speaker 2>and stand for and represent the amazing people who work

0:58:31.120 --> 0:58:33.960
<v Speaker 2>here and on that I'm not going to be I

0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:36.560
<v Speaker 2>will not take a defensive stance at all. I'm going

0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:38.880
<v Speaker 2>to lean into that. And that's the message that I've

0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:40.920
<v Speaker 2>been sending as I've been going around our resorts and

0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:44.680
<v Speaker 2>our communities, is that you know, we like, you know,

0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:46.240
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, I have a lot

0:58:46.280 --> 0:58:49.320
<v Speaker 2>of respect for you know, four Seasons, and you know

0:58:49.680 --> 0:58:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and Marriott and Riz Carlton and Mandarin Oriental sixth Sense

0:58:54.560 --> 0:58:56.320
<v Speaker 2>and all the rest of six Senses, all the rest

0:58:56.320 --> 0:58:58.480
<v Speaker 2>of them. They do an amazing job with Geest Service.

0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:01.200
<v Speaker 2>But of course they're talking about two or three hundred

0:59:01.240 --> 0:59:05.520
<v Speaker 2>rooms at most. They're running an experience that's indoors on

0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:09.320
<v Speaker 2>the ground, you know, climate controlled environment, like we are

0:59:09.360 --> 0:59:12.640
<v Speaker 2>trying to run an experience for in some cases twenty

0:59:12.640 --> 0:59:16.400
<v Speaker 2>to thirty thousand sometimes at Whistler people at ten to

0:59:16.480 --> 0:59:20.400
<v Speaker 2>twelve thousand feet in a storm. Yeah, we are not

0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:22.840
<v Speaker 2>going to hit the mark every day all the time.

0:59:23.120 --> 0:59:26.160
<v Speaker 2>The thing we have to do better, though, is we've

0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:28.920
<v Speaker 2>got to own when we don't hit the mark, rectify

0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:33.720
<v Speaker 2>it and then yeah, you know, like keep leaning forward.

0:59:34.280 --> 0:59:39.200
<v Speaker 1>So how come al Tarra You never hear anything negative

0:59:39.200 --> 0:59:42.160
<v Speaker 1>about al Terra and the Icon past, never, And it's

0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:43.280
<v Speaker 1>even more extensive.

0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I think they First of all, I think there was

0:59:46.440 --> 0:59:48.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot of negativity about Icon and crowding in the

0:59:48.920 --> 0:59:51.000
<v Speaker 2>first year or two that they that they came out,

0:59:51.080 --> 0:59:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of chatter about that and a lot

0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:55.720
<v Speaker 2>of chatter about how ski passes were rooting the industry,

0:59:55.800 --> 0:59:59.520
<v Speaker 2>both epic and icon but you know, I think, obviously one,

0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:03.360
<v Speaker 2>we're PubL company and so we are much more transparent.

1:00:04.280 --> 1:00:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Everything that happens with us is out there for everybody

1:00:06.840 --> 1:00:10.720
<v Speaker 2>to see, and we report regularly. And we are the leader.

1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:13.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, like that's just the way it goes.

1:00:13.320 --> 1:00:16.160
<v Speaker 2>We are the big fish in this pond. We are

1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:20.720
<v Speaker 2>the leader. We're both the leader in terms of innovation.

1:00:21.120 --> 1:00:23.240
<v Speaker 2>We're the leader in terms of how we set prices

1:00:23.240 --> 1:00:26.640
<v Speaker 2>and products around the industry. And I understand that that's

1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:28.720
<v Speaker 2>gonna We're going to take arrows with that. I'm okay

1:00:28.760 --> 1:00:31.920
<v Speaker 2>with that, but yeah, but it doesn't you know, just

1:00:31.920 --> 1:00:33.880
<v Speaker 2>because I can shrug my shoulders a little bit at

1:00:33.920 --> 1:00:36.520
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't mean that we don't have a responsibility to

1:00:36.640 --> 1:00:38.200
<v Speaker 2>constantly improve and do better.

1:00:39.200 --> 1:00:43.200
<v Speaker 1>What did you learn from Park City? Granted you were

1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:46.040
<v Speaker 1>not the CEO at the time, What did you learn

1:00:46.560 --> 1:00:51.200
<v Speaker 1>from Park City ski patrols strike during the Christmas holiday

1:00:51.240 --> 1:00:55.080
<v Speaker 1>which limited the amount of open terrain on the mountain.

1:00:56.240 --> 1:01:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it was, yeah, very difficult experiences for guests,

1:01:00.720 --> 1:01:03.360
<v Speaker 2>and therefore, right are really something that we never want

1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:07.520
<v Speaker 2>to see happen again. I'd say, you know, lessons for

1:01:07.640 --> 1:01:11.000
<v Speaker 2>us are one. You know, we've you know, we've had

1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:14.720
<v Speaker 2>a number of unions before Canyons. You know that Ski

1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Patrol really started from when we bought the Canyons, and

1:01:17.800 --> 1:01:20.040
<v Speaker 2>they had a Ski Patrol union before we bought them.

1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:25.400
<v Speaker 2>But we've negotiated many contracts right with them with other

1:01:25.720 --> 1:01:29.200
<v Speaker 2>unions that we either inherited or came you know, or

1:01:29.200 --> 1:01:33.880
<v Speaker 2>showed up recently, including three different union contracts after the

1:01:33.880 --> 1:01:36.120
<v Speaker 2>parts of the struct So I think we have a

1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:37.800
<v Speaker 2>long history of being able to figure out a way

1:01:37.800 --> 1:01:39.920
<v Speaker 2>to resolve these things before they ever get to them.

1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:42.520
<v Speaker 2>So that's one piece. We certainly a lesson that we

1:01:42.560 --> 1:01:45.920
<v Speaker 2>need to make sure we've exhausted every possibility before we

1:01:45.960 --> 1:01:48.400
<v Speaker 2>get to a strike. I think another piece though, is, yeah,

1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:50.840
<v Speaker 2>we need to be more prepared in a strike, which is,

1:01:51.400 --> 1:01:52.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think there are a lot of lessons

1:01:52.800 --> 1:01:55.440
<v Speaker 2>we took for things that we could do differently if

1:01:55.480 --> 1:01:57.160
<v Speaker 2>there was a strike again. And we hope there's never

1:01:57.200 --> 1:01:59.800
<v Speaker 2>a stroke, but if there was, because of course, like

1:01:59.840 --> 1:02:02.520
<v Speaker 2>we are going to operate through a strike, and I

1:02:02.520 --> 1:02:04.240
<v Speaker 2>think there's a lot of things that I feel much

1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:06.760
<v Speaker 2>more confident about that we would be able to do

1:02:06.800 --> 1:02:08.800
<v Speaker 2>today that we couldn't do that or didn't do that.

1:02:09.480 --> 1:02:11.840
<v Speaker 2>The last thing is, I think, you know, one of

1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the things that was a challenge for us during that

1:02:13.520 --> 1:02:16.880
<v Speaker 2>strike was also our own employees had a hard time

1:02:17.040 --> 1:02:19.720
<v Speaker 2>providing the experience that they wanted to provide during the

1:02:19.760 --> 1:02:24.080
<v Speaker 2>strike because they were under attack right from the union,

1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:27.440
<v Speaker 2>from other people in the community. And I think, you know, certainly,

1:02:27.440 --> 1:02:30.240
<v Speaker 2>in a moment like that again, I personally would you know,

1:02:30.320 --> 1:02:33.080
<v Speaker 2>be on the ground and the whole company would put

1:02:33.080 --> 1:02:36.560
<v Speaker 2>their full support behind anyone and everyone who's trying to

1:02:36.640 --> 1:02:38.880
<v Speaker 2>keep the resort operating in ways that I don't think

1:02:38.880 --> 1:02:41.600
<v Speaker 2>we did the fullest, you know, last go round. So

1:02:41.760 --> 1:02:44.520
<v Speaker 2>I think there's some some quick learnings, But of course

1:02:44.600 --> 1:02:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the biggest one is we don't want to We want

1:02:46.600 --> 1:02:49.880
<v Speaker 2>our employees on the mountain, and we want our patrol

1:02:50.240 --> 1:02:52.720
<v Speaker 2>or any other group on the mountain to be to

1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:54.680
<v Speaker 2>be there providing the best work at the cap.

1:03:02.840 --> 1:03:06.520
<v Speaker 1>What about the insanity of the lift situation in Park

1:03:06.640 --> 1:03:10.080
<v Speaker 1>City and all the negative you ordered, We're going to

1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:13.240
<v Speaker 1>install a lift, they stopped at the latest legal cases,

1:03:13.280 --> 1:03:16.720
<v Speaker 1>you can't do it. You as a company pivoted brilliantly

1:03:16.760 --> 1:03:20.440
<v Speaker 1>and said, well, we'll move that lift to Whistler. But

1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:26.680
<v Speaker 1>if this is anybody looking at this situation, why would

1:03:26.720 --> 1:03:30.160
<v Speaker 1>you not want another lift? First of all, park City

1:03:30.200 --> 1:03:32.600
<v Speaker 1>is a megalopolis. If you talk about parking, most people

1:03:32.640 --> 1:03:35.320
<v Speaker 1>don't park anyway. And then you have the guy with

1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:37.720
<v Speaker 1>the town lift now saying he wants to buy I mean,

1:03:38.120 --> 1:03:40.800
<v Speaker 1>he gets all this press even though it's a non starter.

1:03:41.160 --> 1:03:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Is this something that is unsolvable? You know, it bleeds

1:03:45.040 --> 1:03:48.520
<v Speaker 1>into the other issue of you mentioned earlier. They're not

1:03:48.560 --> 1:03:51.840
<v Speaker 1>building any more new ski areas. There are economics involved,

1:03:52.280 --> 1:03:57.440
<v Speaker 1>but the conservationists are insane. They stop mineral King of

1:03:57.480 --> 1:04:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Disney in the sixties, Grand tar our Gee can't even

1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Expand what can you do when there's this huge disconnect

1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:09.160
<v Speaker 1>between a small segment of the public that doesn't even

1:04:09.200 --> 1:04:10.080
<v Speaker 1>seem rational.

1:04:11.880 --> 1:04:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree, I think it's I would say it's

1:04:14.480 --> 1:04:17.160
<v Speaker 2>that was a difficult dynamic and one that you know,

1:04:17.200 --> 1:04:20.960
<v Speaker 2>we certainly feel that the community made the wrong decision

1:04:21.120 --> 1:04:24.640
<v Speaker 2>about that, and we announced shortly after I came back

1:04:24.760 --> 1:04:27.880
<v Speaker 2>that we're going to absolutely get in front of the

1:04:27.920 --> 1:04:31.240
<v Speaker 2>community again, and the council to put those back in.

1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:34.040
<v Speaker 2>There'll be you know, new lefts that we're going to buy.

1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:36.440
<v Speaker 2>But because we do want to see those lists go in.

1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:39.000
<v Speaker 2>We also have a base, you know, a development at

1:04:39.000 --> 1:04:41.240
<v Speaker 2>the base area of that mountain that we think is critical,

1:04:41.320 --> 1:04:44.240
<v Speaker 2>especially now with the Olympics coming. We think we need

1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:46.600
<v Speaker 2>to that's an eyesore, you know, the area at the bottom,

1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:49.360
<v Speaker 2>and we should be upgrading it. And honestly, for our company,

1:04:49.760 --> 1:04:52.640
<v Speaker 2>we don't really make money doing any real estate development.

1:04:52.640 --> 1:04:54.360
<v Speaker 2>We really bring in other people to do it. We're

1:04:54.360 --> 1:04:57.200
<v Speaker 2>just trying to get done, don't you know. We're happy

1:04:57.280 --> 1:04:59.560
<v Speaker 2>to add parking, We're happy to add whatever you know

1:04:59.600 --> 1:05:01.840
<v Speaker 2>to make things better. It works for us too, but

1:05:01.920 --> 1:05:04.480
<v Speaker 2>it just has to be something that's doable. Somebody has

1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:07.240
<v Speaker 2>to financially be able to make sense of it. And

1:05:07.320 --> 1:05:10.040
<v Speaker 2>so I think I think there's maybe some shifting going

1:05:10.040 --> 1:05:13.720
<v Speaker 2>on within the community and understanding that even if they

1:05:13.760 --> 1:05:17.040
<v Speaker 2>need to be really sensitive to growth, that yeah, like

1:05:17.160 --> 1:05:20.080
<v Speaker 2>turning down improvements and upgrades is not something that long

1:05:20.160 --> 1:05:22.520
<v Speaker 2>term is going to be good for them, you know.

1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:26.200
<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, they're in every single community there there

1:05:26.200 --> 1:05:29.000
<v Speaker 2>are contingents of people that are just anti growth no

1:05:29.040 --> 1:05:31.160
<v Speaker 2>matter what and I think, you know, we have a

1:05:31.160 --> 1:05:34.160
<v Speaker 2>pretty good track record, by the way, including within Park City,

1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:39.680
<v Speaker 2>of doing upgrades, putting in improvements, and I think it's

1:05:39.840 --> 1:05:43.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, sometimes we get their setbacks to that, and

1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that was certainly a moment of a setback

1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:47.800
<v Speaker 2>with the Park City left. But we just have to

1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:49.360
<v Speaker 2>stay at it, you know, I mean, and it is

1:05:49.440 --> 1:05:51.919
<v Speaker 2>on us to figure out a way through the communities

1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:55.440
<v Speaker 2>to ensure that we can find some way to align

1:05:55.520 --> 1:05:58.080
<v Speaker 2>with them to keep making upgrades. And I think the

1:05:58.080 --> 1:06:00.880
<v Speaker 2>good news is again I think I could really say

1:06:00.960 --> 1:06:04.600
<v Speaker 2>with every single one of our major resorts, Yeah, we've

1:06:04.640 --> 1:06:07.920
<v Speaker 2>got a pretty good long term track record of getting

1:06:07.920 --> 1:06:10.880
<v Speaker 2>things done, even if there are momentary settlements.

1:06:11.880 --> 1:06:16.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, al Terra started. It is not a completely comparable

1:06:16.680 --> 1:06:19.600
<v Speaker 1>company in that a lot of the skieries are not

1:06:19.680 --> 1:06:24.640
<v Speaker 1>actually owned by Alterra, but they made a big point

1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:28.120
<v Speaker 1>that they were going to leave management of the ski

1:06:28.200 --> 1:06:33.360
<v Speaker 1>areas local and maintain their character. Now, on some level,

1:06:33.400 --> 1:06:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm rolling my eyes by virtue of the fact a

1:06:36.040 --> 1:06:39.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of these skieries still have old slow lifts, etc.

1:06:40.360 --> 1:06:44.440
<v Speaker 1>You came in, you moved the operation to the front

1:06:44.520 --> 1:06:51.520
<v Speaker 1>range from the Vale Valley and concentrated management. Now, just

1:06:51.560 --> 1:06:53.960
<v Speaker 1>putting a little additional point in this. I know people

1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:58.960
<v Speaker 1>in Vale who own retail businesses, restaurants, and they're not

1:06:59.160 --> 1:07:05.080
<v Speaker 1>happy with the fact that there is no individual advertising

1:07:05.240 --> 1:07:10.200
<v Speaker 1>unveil to their perception that most of the advertising is

1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:14.640
<v Speaker 1>for the overall company, the Epic Pass. So a couple

1:07:14.680 --> 1:07:19.320
<v Speaker 1>of things here to what degree is local management important?

1:07:19.520 --> 1:07:22.959
<v Speaker 1>And secondly you talked about this change, is there going

1:07:23.000 --> 1:07:26.000
<v Speaker 1>to be more emphasis and what might that look like

1:07:26.200 --> 1:07:28.920
<v Speaker 1>on the individual resort as opposed to the overall paths?

1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so both one, I would say we have local

1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:35.520
<v Speaker 2>management and everything. Of course at every single one of

1:07:35.520 --> 1:07:39.120
<v Speaker 2>our resorts. We have an incredible track record of promoting

1:07:39.640 --> 1:07:43.480
<v Speaker 2>the local management of our resort from within, and we

1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:46.600
<v Speaker 2>move people around between resorts so that the people who

1:07:46.640 --> 1:07:49.240
<v Speaker 2>are running our resorts are from the ski industry, of

1:07:49.280 --> 1:07:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the ski industry, grew up in the ski industry. And yeah,

1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:56.040
<v Speaker 2>we have huge pride in that. It is true that

1:07:56.160 --> 1:07:59.040
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely believe that if we want to run a

1:07:59.040 --> 1:08:02.200
<v Speaker 2>successful company, that we have to have certain things that

1:08:02.240 --> 1:08:05.160
<v Speaker 2>we do together as a team. Just like every other

1:08:05.840 --> 1:08:09.920
<v Speaker 2>company that does leisure or whatever, they don't have every

1:08:09.960 --> 1:08:14.280
<v Speaker 2>single resort or property running off on their own. But

1:08:14.360 --> 1:08:18.000
<v Speaker 2>that said, yes, you know, people have told me that

1:08:18.040 --> 1:08:21.040
<v Speaker 2>we've homogenized the resorts, and I think you and I

1:08:21.080 --> 1:08:23.280
<v Speaker 2>both know that that's ridiculous and that if you go

1:08:23.400 --> 1:08:26.360
<v Speaker 2>to Vail, it doesn't feel anything like what it's like

1:08:26.479 --> 1:08:28.880
<v Speaker 2>in Keystone, or if you go to Heavenly or if

1:08:28.920 --> 1:08:31.280
<v Speaker 2>you go to Beaver Creek or Recordage, and those are

1:08:31.280 --> 1:08:33.479
<v Speaker 2>the five resorts we had back in two thousand and two,

1:08:33.479 --> 1:08:36.080
<v Speaker 2>and then they're nothing like. Right, no part of the

1:08:36.120 --> 1:08:40.120
<v Speaker 2>experience is alike. But I think that if you want,

1:08:40.200 --> 1:08:41.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, at the end of the day for us,

1:08:41.640 --> 1:08:43.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, and this was true for the icon piece too,

1:08:44.000 --> 1:08:47.479
<v Speaker 2>But think about it from our perspective, we moved right.

1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:49.240
<v Speaker 2>We went from ten or twenty percent of our business

1:08:49.280 --> 1:08:52.400
<v Speaker 2>on a pass to seventy five percent of our business pass.

1:08:52.840 --> 1:08:56.040
<v Speaker 2>I think that has saved our company and providing stability.

1:08:56.080 --> 1:08:59.320
<v Speaker 2>It has saved the industry. And to do that, we

1:08:59.400 --> 1:09:02.120
<v Speaker 2>needed to get all of our resorts at least aligned

1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:06.960
<v Speaker 2>on how we actually drive revenue. But to the point

1:09:06.960 --> 1:09:10.439
<v Speaker 2>I made earlier and you just mentioned, yes, we to

1:09:10.520 --> 1:09:13.000
<v Speaker 2>make that kind of a sea change, fundamental move in

1:09:13.040 --> 1:09:16.120
<v Speaker 2>the industry, we had to put all of our resources

1:09:16.160 --> 1:09:20.160
<v Speaker 2>behind the epic brand, behind the past product. We had

1:09:20.160 --> 1:09:23.080
<v Speaker 2>to make Lift tick. It's absolutely expensive because we wanted

1:09:23.080 --> 1:09:25.320
<v Speaker 2>people to move from Lift tickets to the past. All

1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:29.840
<v Speaker 2>of those were essential pieces. But now, no, I think

1:09:29.960 --> 1:09:33.080
<v Speaker 2>we understand that we need to do a better job

1:09:33.120 --> 1:09:36.840
<v Speaker 2>promoting each individual brand. You will absolutely see that. You

1:09:36.880 --> 1:09:39.960
<v Speaker 2>will absolutely see that for Vail, we need to activate

1:09:40.280 --> 1:09:46.120
<v Speaker 2>through events, social media, video content at every resort so

1:09:46.160 --> 1:09:49.759
<v Speaker 2>that people understand the excitement of each one of those brands.

1:09:49.800 --> 1:09:53.640
<v Speaker 2>And I think absolutely I think we can be criticized

1:09:53.640 --> 1:09:55.280
<v Speaker 2>for not having done enough of that, and I think

1:09:55.280 --> 1:09:58.479
<v Speaker 2>you're going to start to see that change, you know.

1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Now that said, I think, you know, for a lot

1:10:01.080 --> 1:10:02.880
<v Speaker 2>of these communities, I think one of the things they

1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:05.240
<v Speaker 2>have to think about is is it that they want

1:10:05.280 --> 1:10:08.000
<v Speaker 2>more people coming or not. Like we get criticized on

1:10:08.080 --> 1:10:10.840
<v Speaker 2>both sides of that with some people. You know, like

1:10:11.000 --> 1:10:13.680
<v Speaker 2>we wanted to put you know, affordable employee housing in

1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:15.519
<v Speaker 2>a fail a lot of people didn't want that. You know,

1:10:15.600 --> 1:10:17.720
<v Speaker 2>We've got a project that we've you know, we want

1:10:17.720 --> 1:10:20.280
<v Speaker 2>to put in a West Lionest and now we're finally

1:10:20.320 --> 1:10:22.000
<v Speaker 2>making progress in that. But for a while, there are

1:10:22.000 --> 1:10:23.120
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people that didn't want to see that,

1:10:23.280 --> 1:10:26.000
<v Speaker 2>So it's attention, you know, and then you get people saying, yeah,

1:10:26.000 --> 1:10:29.200
<v Speaker 2>well you're not driving enough business. So some of this,

1:10:29.320 --> 1:10:31.479
<v Speaker 2>I would say, is we just have to realize as

1:10:31.520 --> 1:10:33.240
<v Speaker 2>part for the course, like you're going to get some

1:10:33.320 --> 1:10:37.360
<v Speaker 2>of this feedback, it's going to sometimes seem contradictory, and

1:10:37.400 --> 1:10:40.639
<v Speaker 2>it's our job and my job to navigate through all

1:10:40.680 --> 1:10:42.120
<v Speaker 2>of that. One of the things I said when I

1:10:42.200 --> 1:10:45.000
<v Speaker 2>came back was that it's my job to find ways

1:10:45.000 --> 1:10:48.880
<v Speaker 2>to align all of our stakeholders right, our our shareholders,

1:10:49.479 --> 1:10:53.679
<v Speaker 2>our employees, our community members, and our guests. Like that's

1:10:53.760 --> 1:10:55.840
<v Speaker 2>my job, Like how do I navigate through all of

1:10:55.840 --> 1:10:59.000
<v Speaker 2>that and thread that needle? And it is a you know,

1:10:59.040 --> 1:11:00.640
<v Speaker 2>you're not always going to get it right, but I

1:11:00.640 --> 1:11:03.280
<v Speaker 2>think we have to constantly be thinking about how we

1:11:03.320 --> 1:11:05.479
<v Speaker 2>do that because I think that's how we have had

1:11:05.520 --> 1:11:06.600
<v Speaker 2>long term success.

1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:10.679
<v Speaker 1>Just going back to one of your points about people

1:11:10.680 --> 1:11:13.799
<v Speaker 1>saying the resources are the same, they couldn't be more different.

1:11:13.920 --> 1:11:17.480
<v Speaker 1>The only thing that's similar are the bones of the websites,

1:11:18.120 --> 1:11:22.760
<v Speaker 1>which any corporation would say, hey, yeah, that's a way

1:11:22.800 --> 1:11:25.800
<v Speaker 1>to do it. Where are you know? It is a

1:11:25.840 --> 1:11:29.839
<v Speaker 1>public company. Where are the growth opportunities for Veiled Resources?

1:11:31.640 --> 1:11:34.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we can absolutely grow visits. So I

1:11:34.600 --> 1:11:38.400
<v Speaker 2>feel I think that we have not done and especially

1:11:38.400 --> 1:11:40.160
<v Speaker 2>compared to where we've been the last couple of years,

1:11:40.160 --> 1:11:42.960
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a real opportunity for us to grow visits.

1:11:43.120 --> 1:11:45.000
<v Speaker 2>That's not going to be ten and twenty percent growth,

1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:47.240
<v Speaker 2>that's not the way the industry works. But getting back

1:11:47.280 --> 1:11:50.719
<v Speaker 2>to low single digit growth I think is definitely possible.

1:11:51.160 --> 1:11:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I think then getting price growth right above inflation also

1:11:55.280 --> 1:11:58.160
<v Speaker 2>very doable. And then really the big opportunities and the

1:11:58.200 --> 1:12:00.919
<v Speaker 2>big swing points for us are going to be around

1:12:02.120 --> 1:12:03.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, what we call kind of antilly revenue, but

1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:08.120
<v Speaker 2>is you know, ski school, rentals, and food. And I

1:12:08.160 --> 1:12:11.280
<v Speaker 2>think we have big opportunities in all three, particularly ski

1:12:11.320 --> 1:12:14.760
<v Speaker 2>school and rentals to really drive outsize growth. And we

1:12:14.840 --> 1:12:17.679
<v Speaker 2>haven't seen, you know, in the industry, we haven't seen

1:12:17.720 --> 1:12:19.960
<v Speaker 2>on our company and haven't seen in the industry before.

1:12:20.280 --> 1:12:22.880
<v Speaker 2>And then finally, I do think there are opportunities for

1:12:23.000 --> 1:12:25.120
<v Speaker 2>us to grow in Europe and for us to grow

1:12:25.240 --> 1:12:28.879
<v Speaker 2>in in Asia. Not something that's going to happen overnight,

1:12:29.400 --> 1:12:32.400
<v Speaker 2>but this is a global industry and a lot of

1:12:32.439 --> 1:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>the change that we've seen that has been so successful

1:12:35.800 --> 1:12:38.800
<v Speaker 2>in North America, I think is still is making its

1:12:38.840 --> 1:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>way around the world, but it's still kind of slow

1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:41.400
<v Speaker 2>to get there.

1:12:42.520 --> 1:12:45.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, in terms of acquisition, even in Europe, there was

1:12:45.560 --> 1:12:48.759
<v Speaker 1>a local community that bought a ski area, so wouldn't

1:12:48.800 --> 1:12:53.479
<v Speaker 1>be purchased by one of the huge companies. What are

1:12:53.520 --> 1:12:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the opportunities and what are the strategies without revealing any

1:12:57.040 --> 1:13:00.120
<v Speaker 1>special sauce, yeah, I think.

1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:02.880
<v Speaker 2>It's patient and the special sauce is patience. You know.

1:13:02.960 --> 1:13:05.840
<v Speaker 2>I think people tend to look at what we did

1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:09.120
<v Speaker 2>in North America in Australia and say, well, oh, it's

1:13:09.160 --> 1:13:11.080
<v Speaker 2>so obvious that you could do all of that. But

1:13:11.240 --> 1:13:14.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, as you probably remember, certainly back in two

1:13:14.360 --> 1:13:17.920
<v Speaker 2>thousand and five, in two thousand and four, yeah, nobody

1:13:17.920 --> 1:13:21.080
<v Speaker 2>thought there was any opportunity to acquire resorts in North America,

1:13:21.240 --> 1:13:23.240
<v Speaker 2>or even if you did, why would make any sense?

1:13:24.000 --> 1:13:27.080
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I'm not you know, I know that it

1:13:27.120 --> 1:13:30.960
<v Speaker 2>takes time. I think in a way, right, I think

1:13:30.960 --> 1:13:33.519
<v Speaker 2>you're going to have some resorts in Europe there that

1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:36.679
<v Speaker 2>may make the same decision that the community and locks made,

1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's fine. But there's going to be

1:13:38.920 --> 1:13:41.439
<v Speaker 2>other resorts and other owners, right that meg see that.

1:13:41.520 --> 1:13:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Hey wait a minute, as we think about the next

1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:46.479
<v Speaker 2>five to ten years, maybe it makes sense to align,

1:13:47.080 --> 1:13:49.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, more strongly with one of these bigger players.

1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:53.040
<v Speaker 2>And you know, so when I look out five or

1:13:53.040 --> 1:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>ten years, I'm quite confident we'll see some of those

1:13:55.240 --> 1:13:56.760
<v Speaker 2>opportunities come through.

1:13:57.400 --> 1:13:59.960
<v Speaker 1>What would be the benefit to one of those large

1:14:00.080 --> 1:14:04.200
<v Speaker 1>resource and there are many Rubia balveasir goes on to

1:14:04.479 --> 1:14:09.200
<v Speaker 1>joining part of an overall company, Well.

1:14:08.960 --> 1:14:11.080
<v Speaker 2>I think you know a couple. But one is, you know,

1:14:11.120 --> 1:14:13.559
<v Speaker 2>the ski industry, and I think even more so in Europe,

1:14:13.600 --> 1:14:17.080
<v Speaker 2>right really has struggles with weather. Right, they are at

1:14:17.120 --> 1:14:21.200
<v Speaker 2>lower elevation than we are, and so you know, I

1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:23.320
<v Speaker 2>think as you think out over over time, I think

1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:26.280
<v Speaker 2>there's some real benefit to that. The other thing is

1:14:26.280 --> 1:14:29.599
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these lift companies, and they are lift companies,

1:14:29.640 --> 1:14:32.479
<v Speaker 2>as you know in Europe. So most of these lift

1:14:32.479 --> 1:14:35.559
<v Speaker 2>companies don't have city school, don't have food, don't have rentals,

1:14:35.560 --> 1:14:39.280
<v Speaker 2>don't have retail, don't have logic. So they those lift

1:14:39.280 --> 1:14:41.640
<v Speaker 2>companies can be exposed, right, I mean, because those are

1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:45.080
<v Speaker 2>pretty profitable areas of the business. And so I think

1:14:45.280 --> 1:14:47.760
<v Speaker 2>being part of a larger company, with the more consistent

1:14:47.840 --> 1:14:50.320
<v Speaker 2>capital that we can put in, the more consistent employees

1:14:50.360 --> 1:14:52.800
<v Speaker 2>that we can put in. I think those are opportunities

1:14:52.840 --> 1:14:55.920
<v Speaker 2>long term. I also think from a marketing perspective, there's

1:14:55.960 --> 1:14:59.000
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity for us to ultimately have a pass product

1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:02.160
<v Speaker 2>that is that it's more of a European based pass

1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:05.280
<v Speaker 2>product that can provide access to both Europe and North

1:15:05.320 --> 1:15:08.639
<v Speaker 2>America and really be a compelling product for like Germany

1:15:09.200 --> 1:15:13.840
<v Speaker 2>and the UK, which kind of do both. You know,

1:15:14.000 --> 1:15:16.439
<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, there's not a lot of people in

1:15:16.479 --> 1:15:18.519
<v Speaker 2>France that are going to have a common ski in

1:15:18.560 --> 1:15:20.759
<v Speaker 2>the US. That's true with Austria, that's doue with Italy,

1:15:20.840 --> 1:15:24.000
<v Speaker 2>that's true with Switzerland. But in the UK and Germany,

1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I think we have real opportunities.

1:15:25.320 --> 1:15:30.800
<v Speaker 1>So you have past partners. These are companies that you

1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:34.280
<v Speaker 1>do not own, but people who own Epic passes can

1:15:34.360 --> 1:15:37.519
<v Speaker 1>ski there. Just use one example, tell your ride, full

1:15:37.560 --> 1:15:40.639
<v Speaker 1>Epic pass owner get seven days to tell your ride.

1:15:41.120 --> 1:15:43.439
<v Speaker 1>How did the economics work on that? How is the

1:15:43.439 --> 1:15:44.360
<v Speaker 1>money split up?

1:15:46.120 --> 1:15:46.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1:15:46.360 --> 1:15:49.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't Those are confidential, so I can't really you know,

1:15:49.320 --> 1:15:52.800
<v Speaker 2>go into that, but obviously, yeah, there's there's an economic

1:15:52.880 --> 1:15:55.760
<v Speaker 2>arrangement that that we think benefits us in terms of

1:15:56.200 --> 1:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, tell You Ride is a good example. I

1:15:59.280 --> 1:16:01.679
<v Speaker 2>think we see tell You Ride is a very unique brand,

1:16:03.000 --> 1:16:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and the number of brands that are not owned by

1:16:06.880 --> 1:16:10.120
<v Speaker 2>al Terra or US, yeah, they're not that many as

1:16:10.160 --> 1:16:12.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, right that are that we really have could

1:16:12.760 --> 1:16:14.640
<v Speaker 2>move the needle and have the unique power that a

1:16:14.720 --> 1:16:18.120
<v Speaker 2>teal You Ride has. It's not the only one, but uh.

1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:20.599
<v Speaker 2>And so they see a benefit I think in getting

1:16:20.920 --> 1:16:23.760
<v Speaker 2>obviously revenue from us that they feel is more consistent

1:16:23.760 --> 1:16:27.400
<v Speaker 2>and stable, and we think that, you know, that's that

1:16:27.479 --> 1:16:30.080
<v Speaker 2>works out great for both of us. Now, of course,

1:16:30.080 --> 1:16:33.120
<v Speaker 2>it's true that a resort like Tell You Ride as

1:16:33.160 --> 1:16:35.000
<v Speaker 2>a resort we would own and in our minds, like

1:16:35.520 --> 1:16:38.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, we take we like to create networks where

1:16:38.280 --> 1:16:40.680
<v Speaker 2>we would be comfortable owning any of the resorts in

1:16:40.720 --> 1:16:43.639
<v Speaker 2>our network, which is maybe a little different than Alterra.

1:16:44.240 --> 1:16:46.360
<v Speaker 2>But the reason for that is, yeah, we don't. We don't.

1:16:46.360 --> 1:16:48.479
<v Speaker 2>We want to make sure the experience of that resort

1:16:48.720 --> 1:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>is one that you know, we can get behind and

1:16:50.880 --> 1:16:54.400
<v Speaker 2>it's consistent. We also want to make sure that, yeah,

1:16:54.640 --> 1:16:57.160
<v Speaker 2>this is something that is for the long term we

1:16:57.160 --> 1:16:58.880
<v Speaker 2>don't really want to get into the game of adding

1:16:58.880 --> 1:17:02.280
<v Speaker 2>and subtracting partners over time, which sometimes can happen right

1:17:02.320 --> 1:17:05.600
<v Speaker 2>when you create a network. So in our minds we

1:17:05.680 --> 1:17:08.120
<v Speaker 2>do mean more owner operated as a as an MO,

1:17:08.360 --> 1:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>but for key resorts, like I tell you right now,

1:17:11.120 --> 1:17:14.559
<v Speaker 2>we absolutely will We'll welcome them in as a partner.

1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:17.639
<v Speaker 1>Is that a pre use payment like if I ski

1:17:18.000 --> 1:17:21.599
<v Speaker 1>until you ride, they'll pays them a certain amount or

1:17:21.720 --> 1:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>is it a different structure?

1:17:24.360 --> 1:17:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're all the agreements are confidential, so I can't

1:17:27.560 --> 1:17:31.160
<v Speaker 2>get into the specifics of it, but but I can't

1:17:31.200 --> 1:17:34.000
<v Speaker 2>say yeah, it's yeah. But of course there's an economic

1:17:34.680 --> 1:17:38.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, trade that we're making with them, where obviously

1:17:38.160 --> 1:17:42.600
<v Speaker 2>they're economically benefiting from that and we you know, in

1:17:43.040 --> 1:17:45.280
<v Speaker 2>some way right that we're paying them, and then obviously

1:17:45.400 --> 1:17:47.719
<v Speaker 2>we feel we're benefiting by getting more people on the path.

1:17:48.000 --> 1:17:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that these partners do at the they'll

1:17:52.479 --> 1:17:55.600
<v Speaker 1>own so many ski areas, is it worth it to

1:17:55.680 --> 1:18:00.240
<v Speaker 1>give up some of the revenue to independent past partners? Yeah?

1:18:00.240 --> 1:18:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I think for us, I can't speak for al tara

1:18:03.439 --> 1:18:07.240
<v Speaker 2>an Icon, but for us, we feel like we are

1:18:08.080 --> 1:18:11.040
<v Speaker 2>very selective with how we put on partners, and we're willing,

1:18:11.600 --> 1:18:13.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, to walk away if we don't think that

1:18:13.640 --> 1:18:15.880
<v Speaker 2>that partner really adds as much. And the truth is,

1:18:16.320 --> 1:18:18.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the end of the day, like, yeah,

1:18:19.120 --> 1:18:22.200
<v Speaker 2>without any partners, we do feel like our network in

1:18:22.240 --> 1:18:25.960
<v Speaker 2>North America is incredible and the resorts we own, which

1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:29.080
<v Speaker 2>I think sometimes people lose sight of. You know, people

1:18:29.360 --> 1:18:32.040
<v Speaker 2>think that a Whistler and a Veil and a Breckenridge

1:18:32.080 --> 1:18:34.800
<v Speaker 2>and a park City, you know, are similar to you know,

1:18:34.840 --> 1:18:38.760
<v Speaker 2>a Jackson, you know, or even an Assmen and they're not.

1:18:38.880 --> 1:18:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they are. It's not saying that there always

1:18:40.720 --> 1:18:43.360
<v Speaker 2>are an amazing resource. They are, but in terms of size,

1:18:43.680 --> 1:18:47.560
<v Speaker 2>in terms of popularity, no, they're they're not. They're not equivalent.

1:18:47.640 --> 1:18:50.040
<v Speaker 2>And so for us, yeah, we understand that we've got

1:18:50.080 --> 1:18:53.600
<v Speaker 2>the resorts that you know, are really critical to the

1:18:53.640 --> 1:18:56.799
<v Speaker 2>overall ski market, and so at that point we're really

1:18:56.840 --> 1:19:00.559
<v Speaker 2>selective on just picking like who's going to add really

1:19:00.680 --> 1:19:03.320
<v Speaker 2>value outside of that, and we do think Tell You

1:19:03.439 --> 1:19:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Ride is one of those resources that does that for us.

1:19:06.960 --> 1:19:12.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the Icon Pass is more expensive than the Epic Pass.

1:19:13.040 --> 1:19:18.800
<v Speaker 1>In addition, after covid Epic lowered the price, it has

1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:22.439
<v Speaker 1>since been raised, but we've also had inflation. How do

1:19:22.520 --> 1:19:27.040
<v Speaker 1>you calculate the price and is there a fear that

1:19:27.080 --> 1:19:29.439
<v Speaker 1>there's not that much headroom? You can't raise it too

1:19:29.479 --> 1:19:31.280
<v Speaker 1>much without turning people off.

1:19:33.720 --> 1:19:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't. You know, in our minds, we keep

1:19:37.760 --> 1:19:40.439
<v Speaker 2>an eye on what Icon is doing on their pricing,

1:19:40.560 --> 1:19:43.639
<v Speaker 2>but we are pricing our passes based on what we

1:19:43.720 --> 1:19:48.479
<v Speaker 2>think is right in our own system between lift tickets

1:19:48.520 --> 1:19:51.840
<v Speaker 2>and passes. And you know, in our minds we've done

1:19:51.840 --> 1:19:54.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of work on why we've come out with

1:19:54.040 --> 1:19:57.200
<v Speaker 2>the pricing that we have. We are actually going to

1:19:57.280 --> 1:19:59.640
<v Speaker 2>do even more work on that, you know, as in

1:19:59.680 --> 1:20:02.559
<v Speaker 2>the up coming years there's new tools available with AI

1:20:02.720 --> 1:20:05.600
<v Speaker 2>machine learning that allow us to take a complexity of

1:20:05.640 --> 1:20:08.839
<v Speaker 2>a lot of this and make sure that we've optimized everything.

1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:11.280
<v Speaker 2>And I think when you look at Icon in the

1:20:11.360 --> 1:20:13.600
<v Speaker 2>end of the day, they do a lot of discounting,

1:20:13.800 --> 1:20:16.240
<v Speaker 2>you know that we don't do like renewal discounts and

1:20:16.680 --> 1:20:18.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, bount money discounts and things like that, where

1:20:19.840 --> 1:20:22.160
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like we have a little bit cleaner,

1:20:22.760 --> 1:20:26.080
<v Speaker 2>more consistent approach right to how we price, and I

1:20:26.080 --> 1:20:29.160
<v Speaker 2>think others within the industry sometimes have a little bit more. Oh,

1:20:29.200 --> 1:20:31.400
<v Speaker 2>here's the lead price, but then we have all these

1:20:31.800 --> 1:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, sales on the side. We don't tend to

1:20:33.880 --> 1:20:38.320
<v Speaker 2>do that. But yeah, for us, we see ourselves as

1:20:38.360 --> 1:20:41.200
<v Speaker 2>the price leader, like and setting the market for both

1:20:41.240 --> 1:20:44.599
<v Speaker 2>price and product. And again we do keep an eye

1:20:44.640 --> 1:20:47.400
<v Speaker 2>on what everybody else is doing, but a lot of

1:20:47.439 --> 1:20:50.120
<v Speaker 2>what we do is based on the analysis that we're

1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:56.240
<v Speaker 2>seeing in our own business.

1:20:59.240 --> 1:21:02.160
<v Speaker 1>What about the concept of the so called black pass.

1:21:02.960 --> 1:21:05.559
<v Speaker 1>They have had it at Snowbird, they had a park

1:21:05.640 --> 1:21:08.679
<v Speaker 1>City before you owned it. They have it a copper which,

1:21:08.840 --> 1:21:13.160
<v Speaker 1>for an additional fee, you do not have to wait

1:21:13.200 --> 1:21:16.080
<v Speaker 1>in line or in a much much shorter line. What

1:21:16.240 --> 1:21:18.680
<v Speaker 1>is Veil Resorts philosophy relative to.

1:21:18.680 --> 1:21:22.320
<v Speaker 2>That, Yeah, we don't. That's not something that that we

1:21:23.400 --> 1:21:25.840
<v Speaker 2>that we have been a fan of. You know, in

1:21:25.920 --> 1:21:28.600
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, for us, we feel like,

1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:33.360
<v Speaker 2>you know that cutting the line is really reserved for

1:21:33.600 --> 1:21:37.280
<v Speaker 2>ski school, and in our minds that's because ski school

1:21:37.479 --> 1:21:40.599
<v Speaker 2>is you know, they are providing lessons to people and

1:21:40.720 --> 1:21:44.080
<v Speaker 2>so ultimately that's something that we think, uh, you know,

1:21:44.479 --> 1:21:48.240
<v Speaker 2>that's a part of that experience that we give. And

1:21:48.800 --> 1:21:50.680
<v Speaker 2>if there are people who just want to use it

1:21:50.720 --> 1:21:54.439
<v Speaker 2>as a line cutting option. That's fine. We we obviously

1:21:54.560 --> 1:21:57.800
<v Speaker 2>understand that and support that as well. Some people say, well,

1:21:57.880 --> 1:22:00.360
<v Speaker 2>but you know, it's so expensive. It could be you know,

1:22:00.439 --> 1:22:02.560
<v Speaker 2>at Veil at peak time, a private lesson could be

1:22:02.600 --> 1:22:05.519
<v Speaker 2>fifteen hundred dollars or whatever. But if you get a

1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:07.519
<v Speaker 2>group of four or five people together on a per

1:22:07.640 --> 1:22:10.719
<v Speaker 2>day basis to you know, to skip all the lists,

1:22:11.160 --> 1:22:13.439
<v Speaker 2>you know that they may think that's a reasonable option.

1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:16.719
<v Speaker 2>That is kind of our black path, and we feel

1:22:16.760 --> 1:22:20.719
<v Speaker 2>like we'd rather in our minds that if we've opened

1:22:20.800 --> 1:22:24.160
<v Speaker 2>up a black path, we absolutely withoud decountabalization from our

1:22:24.200 --> 1:22:26.479
<v Speaker 2>ski school and I think it would put pressure on

1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:29.240
<v Speaker 2>that and we maybe which is different than some of

1:22:29.280 --> 1:22:31.120
<v Speaker 2>these other resorts, but we're trying to drive as much

1:22:31.160 --> 1:22:33.559
<v Speaker 2>business into our ski school and with our instructors as

1:22:33.560 --> 1:22:36.200
<v Speaker 2>we possibly can. It's a good business for us, and

1:22:36.240 --> 1:22:39.320
<v Speaker 2>we think that creates a healthy dynamic for the instructors.

1:22:40.000 --> 1:22:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Epic Gear, is this really a business? You talked

1:22:44.920 --> 1:22:48.519
<v Speaker 1>about the pain points and going forward the Epic Gear.

1:22:49.439 --> 1:22:54.120
<v Speaker 1>I walk past the Epic Gear area every day when

1:22:54.120 --> 1:22:57.679
<v Speaker 1>I go to go skiing, and it's always two guys

1:22:57.720 --> 1:23:01.479
<v Speaker 1>who look like stoners who have their elbows on the

1:23:01.640 --> 1:23:05.680
<v Speaker 1>counter and there's almost no one there. And at the

1:23:05.800 --> 1:23:07.960
<v Speaker 1>end of the day, when people have to put their

1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:10.599
<v Speaker 1>skis on the rack, there's almost no one there. I

1:23:10.720 --> 1:23:14.880
<v Speaker 1>know that there is a delivery component. In addition, is

1:23:14.960 --> 1:23:18.880
<v Speaker 1>this a good idea that the public is really going

1:23:18.960 --> 1:23:21.320
<v Speaker 1>to accept? You know, there are a lot of good

1:23:21.360 --> 1:23:24.200
<v Speaker 1>ideas that the public doesn't go. And to what degree

1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:27.919
<v Speaker 1>has it it's already been in operation, to what degree

1:23:28.360 --> 1:23:29.840
<v Speaker 1>is it a business already?

1:23:31.320 --> 1:23:33.519
<v Speaker 2>So what I would say is this, I think the

1:23:33.560 --> 1:23:35.840
<v Speaker 2>core part of my epic gear. I mean, we kind

1:23:35.880 --> 1:23:38.880
<v Speaker 2>of we were testing a lot of things last year

1:23:38.920 --> 1:23:41.120
<v Speaker 2>in terms of like all the different components of what

1:23:41.640 --> 1:23:44.400
<v Speaker 2>an elevated experience on my epic year could look like.

1:23:44.439 --> 1:23:46.920
<v Speaker 2>But I would say that the core part it and

1:23:47.000 --> 1:23:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I think you can see it in the name itself.

1:23:49.800 --> 1:23:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Mypic gear is about you being able to pick the

1:23:53.080 --> 1:23:57.080
<v Speaker 2>gear that you want and either having that gear available

1:23:57.120 --> 1:24:00.240
<v Speaker 2>all season long, right if that's what you want, or

1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:03.400
<v Speaker 2>you can pick close in if you don't want to

1:24:03.439 --> 1:24:05.360
<v Speaker 2>tell us what gear you want all season long, but

1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:08.000
<v Speaker 2>you'll still be able to pick from our inventory of

1:24:08.040 --> 1:24:11.679
<v Speaker 2>the best gear and the best boots. The Boa Boots

1:24:11.720 --> 1:24:15.479
<v Speaker 2>as we talked about earlier. In our minds, that's that

1:24:15.640 --> 1:24:19.320
<v Speaker 2>is a sea change concept. We think it has huge

1:24:19.360 --> 1:24:21.559
<v Speaker 2>opportunity and could be a very big business in the

1:24:21.560 --> 1:24:26.000
<v Speaker 2>industry because ultimately, right now, the reason why people own

1:24:26.080 --> 1:24:29.280
<v Speaker 2>gear most people is because they don't really want to

1:24:29.280 --> 1:24:31.439
<v Speaker 2>own gear, but they own it because they want to

1:24:31.439 --> 1:24:32.840
<v Speaker 2>make sure when they get to the mountain that they've

1:24:32.840 --> 1:24:35.120
<v Speaker 2>got the boot and the ski that they want. The

1:24:35.160 --> 1:24:37.639
<v Speaker 2>reason why people when people rent gear, they don't own

1:24:37.680 --> 1:24:41.120
<v Speaker 2>it obviously, but then most people are not happy necessarily

1:24:41.200 --> 1:24:43.400
<v Speaker 2>with all the choices and options. A lot of people

1:24:43.439 --> 1:24:45.040
<v Speaker 2>feel like they're not getting the best gear, or if

1:24:45.040 --> 1:24:47.599
<v Speaker 2>they rent, they're not getting the same thing the next

1:24:47.640 --> 1:24:49.439
<v Speaker 2>time they go back. Maybe they had a boot or

1:24:49.479 --> 1:24:51.479
<v Speaker 2>they had a ski that they really like, but now

1:24:51.520 --> 1:24:52.840
<v Speaker 2>you don't know that you're going to get the same

1:24:52.840 --> 1:24:55.479
<v Speaker 2>thing next time. So people are kind of starting new

1:24:55.640 --> 1:24:58.040
<v Speaker 2>every time they go and rent. In our mind, that

1:24:58.160 --> 1:25:01.280
<v Speaker 2>is an antiquated approach to how people should use gear,

1:25:01.920 --> 1:25:05.120
<v Speaker 2>and so I do see this as a big transformational event,

1:25:06.240 --> 1:25:09.160
<v Speaker 2>but it's not easy to do. You could just imagine

1:25:09.160 --> 1:25:11.720
<v Speaker 2>all the logistics and the technology that's required to make

1:25:11.760 --> 1:25:14.280
<v Speaker 2>something like that successful. So we're going to You know,

1:25:14.360 --> 1:25:16.920
<v Speaker 2>this is not something that's an overnight It's not like

1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:19.080
<v Speaker 2>just creating a little app, you know, on your phone.

1:25:19.120 --> 1:25:21.280
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot that goes into it. But ultimately, I

1:25:21.320 --> 1:25:22.800
<v Speaker 2>think it could be a real game Jinger.

1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:27.240
<v Speaker 1>And to what degree do you feel responsibility for the

1:25:27.280 --> 1:25:32.680
<v Speaker 1>health of the manufacturers? Ski sales? Companies that make skeys

1:25:32.680 --> 1:25:35.480
<v Speaker 1>have gone way down. A lot of them are conglomerates

1:25:35.520 --> 1:25:40.000
<v Speaker 1>where they have other revenue streams. If theyil is purchasing equipment,

1:25:40.080 --> 1:25:44.680
<v Speaker 1>inherently it's a discount. Volume players get a discount, and

1:25:44.720 --> 1:25:48.240
<v Speaker 1>certainly there are special rental packages as someone is wanting

1:25:48.320 --> 1:25:53.519
<v Speaker 1>something of lesser quality. But if this my epic gear

1:25:53.640 --> 1:25:57.800
<v Speaker 1>is successful, it's going to affect the overall sales of

1:25:57.840 --> 1:25:58.640
<v Speaker 1>these companies.

1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think, you know, I'd say it's a shift, right,

1:26:06.439 --> 1:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>So exactly how this plays out, I don't know, and

1:26:09.439 --> 1:26:12.320
<v Speaker 2>over what time period I do. It does matter to

1:26:12.320 --> 1:26:14.880
<v Speaker 2>me that these companies are healthy. I would say that

1:26:14.960 --> 1:26:17.800
<v Speaker 2>we also know that, you know, the retail business on

1:26:17.920 --> 1:26:21.479
<v Speaker 2>skis and boots is also challenged, right beyond certainly the

1:26:21.520 --> 1:26:24.120
<v Speaker 2>brick and mortar retail business is a challenging business. We're

1:26:24.120 --> 1:26:28.360
<v Speaker 2>obviously a big player in and that's a challenging business

1:26:28.439 --> 1:26:32.200
<v Speaker 2>given online dynamics. But of course, like for online, it's

1:26:32.200 --> 1:26:34.800
<v Speaker 2>not the same experience, right, people don't get to touch

1:26:34.840 --> 1:26:37.680
<v Speaker 2>and feel the product. So I think my concern when

1:26:37.720 --> 1:26:40.839
<v Speaker 2>I look out is like, if we're seeing struggling retail

1:26:40.960 --> 1:26:45.120
<v Speaker 2>dynamics for hard goods, what will that mean in the

1:26:45.120 --> 1:26:47.599
<v Speaker 2>long run if people can't touch and feel this product.

1:26:47.600 --> 1:26:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I think it could actually reduce the owner cycle of

1:26:50.920 --> 1:26:54.759
<v Speaker 2>replacement no matter what. And so in our minds like, actually,

1:26:55.040 --> 1:26:58.080
<v Speaker 2>this could be an opportunity where people get to touch

1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and feel without making this huge commitment the best gear

1:27:02.000 --> 1:27:04.559
<v Speaker 2>that's out there, right, And I actually think it'll bring

1:27:04.600 --> 1:27:07.920
<v Speaker 2>them closer and more passionate about the gear, which of

1:27:07.960 --> 1:27:09.840
<v Speaker 2>course means that when we're going to buy the new

1:27:09.880 --> 1:27:12.360
<v Speaker 2>gear and new options and you know, so it's yes,

1:27:12.720 --> 1:27:15.599
<v Speaker 2>just like the right, it's like everything like the music, right,

1:27:15.600 --> 1:27:18.599
<v Speaker 2>as you know, Well, it's not that the business goes away,

1:27:18.640 --> 1:27:20.800
<v Speaker 2>it's just in my shift, and I think that's something

1:27:20.840 --> 1:27:22.280
<v Speaker 2>we want to try and be on the front end.

1:27:23.160 --> 1:27:25.280
<v Speaker 1>So at this point in time, how often do you

1:27:25.320 --> 1:27:25.960
<v Speaker 1>go skiing?

1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, I would say I don't know. What would I

1:27:30.640 --> 1:27:32.519
<v Speaker 2>say if I had to guess for this year, I'm

1:27:32.520 --> 1:27:35.280
<v Speaker 2>going to say twenty to thirty days, you know, something

1:27:35.280 --> 1:27:38.799
<v Speaker 2>in that in that range, i'd say my own skiing

1:27:39.000 --> 1:27:42.400
<v Speaker 2>tracks kind of most most people, which is, you know,

1:27:42.520 --> 1:27:45.200
<v Speaker 2>I was skiing forty to fifty days a year when

1:27:45.240 --> 1:27:49.920
<v Speaker 2>my kids were five to you know, nineteen, and once

1:27:49.920 --> 1:27:51.600
<v Speaker 2>my kids went off to college and now live on

1:27:51.640 --> 1:27:56.160
<v Speaker 2>the East Coast. Yeah, it's less, you know, and but yeah,

1:27:56.560 --> 1:27:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean so by the way, that's a recreation, recreational days.

1:28:00.000 --> 1:28:01.840
<v Speaker 2>I spent a bunch of time at our resorts or

1:28:01.880 --> 1:28:04.160
<v Speaker 2>getting on the hill to you know, do the work

1:28:04.200 --> 1:28:08.320
<v Speaker 2>part of it's differently, but yeah, I'm you know, this

1:28:08.439 --> 1:28:11.840
<v Speaker 2>is something yeah, I've loved since I was a kid.

1:28:13.120 --> 1:28:16.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so other than the twenty thirty days, how many

1:28:16.800 --> 1:28:19.479
<v Speaker 1>days are you on the hill when it's essentially air

1:28:19.560 --> 1:28:20.320
<v Speaker 1>quodes work?

1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh I don't know either, Yeah, on the hill. And

1:28:25.680 --> 1:28:28.080
<v Speaker 2>I could be on the hill, you know, in the

1:28:28.120 --> 1:28:33.120
<v Speaker 2>non skiing season too, like and shoes or boots, but yeah,

1:28:33.320 --> 1:28:35.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, I would probably be I'll probably be in

1:28:35.400 --> 1:28:38.880
<v Speaker 2>ski resorts. Yeah, forty days, you know, at least forty

1:28:39.000 --> 1:28:40.320
<v Speaker 2>fifty days something like that.

1:28:40.880 --> 1:28:44.800
<v Speaker 1>So if you are deciding to go skiing. Where do

1:28:44.920 --> 1:28:45.360
<v Speaker 1>you go?

1:28:47.720 --> 1:28:50.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, as you know, Bob, I have I have a

1:28:50.520 --> 1:28:54.479
<v Speaker 2>house in Veil, and you know, I love all of

1:28:54.479 --> 1:28:58.880
<v Speaker 2>our resorts of course, like all my kids, but no,

1:28:59.040 --> 1:29:01.840
<v Speaker 2>I have a special connection with Bail that goes goes

1:29:01.880 --> 1:29:06.240
<v Speaker 2>back aways and obviously it's where you know, I spent teaching,

1:29:06.520 --> 1:29:08.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, and learning to ski with my kids them

1:29:09.040 --> 1:29:11.160
<v Speaker 2>learning to ski, and then meet skiing with them and

1:29:11.200 --> 1:29:16.280
<v Speaker 2>our family up there for countless holidays with you know,

1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:19.639
<v Speaker 2>my extended family or their friends. So like that. Yeah,

1:29:19.640 --> 1:29:23.120
<v Speaker 2>it's a very very special place for me. But yeah,

1:29:24.040 --> 1:29:26.200
<v Speaker 2>we've I've also gone with my kids, you know, and

1:29:26.240 --> 1:29:28.840
<v Speaker 2>my family and friends right to ski Whistler, which is

1:29:28.840 --> 1:29:32.400
<v Speaker 2>an incredible experience in ski Peak six at Breckenridge, or

1:29:32.439 --> 1:29:36.240
<v Speaker 2>off the Imperial Express or right Stone Creek, Shoots and

1:29:36.280 --> 1:29:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Beaver Creek, yeah, or the out back of Keystone or

1:29:41.000 --> 1:29:44.000
<v Speaker 2>nine to ninety at Park City. Plus I'm going to

1:29:44.000 --> 1:29:48.120
<v Speaker 2>ski other places like Snowbird and Deer Valley and Jackson

1:29:49.280 --> 1:29:53.639
<v Speaker 2>and all kinds of different places in Europe, Japan. So yeah,

1:29:53.960 --> 1:29:55.879
<v Speaker 2>I think it's one of the great things. And honestly,

1:29:56.240 --> 1:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>you know what I'm most passionate about and why I

1:29:58.200 --> 1:30:01.160
<v Speaker 2>love the sport. It's like a every day is different,

1:30:01.680 --> 1:30:06.240
<v Speaker 2>the weather is different, the experience is different. But yeah,

1:30:06.280 --> 1:30:11.120
<v Speaker 2>I get to be outdoors doing something I love. And yeah,

1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:14.280
<v Speaker 2>having that be my job as well, that's kind of cool.

1:30:14.600 --> 1:30:18.080
<v Speaker 1>So what's your strategy at fail you're starting? Where do

1:30:18.120 --> 1:30:18.479
<v Speaker 1>you go?

1:30:22.560 --> 1:30:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh? For me, it depends on the day, I'd say, right,

1:30:25.280 --> 1:30:28.760
<v Speaker 2>it could be if it's a if it's a powder day, yeah,

1:30:28.800 --> 1:30:33.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm going up the gondola, you know, and then uh yeah,

1:30:33.600 --> 1:30:36.880
<v Speaker 2>over to Chair fourteen or down five and up seven

1:30:36.960 --> 1:30:41.519
<v Speaker 2>and up nine and yeah, back to Blue Sky. So

1:30:41.560 --> 1:30:43.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if I can get you know, if I'm up,

1:30:43.680 --> 1:30:45.800
<v Speaker 2>if I'm if I'm out there early enough, no, then

1:30:45.840 --> 1:30:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm skiing like Forever and Wow and Rickey Thridge, you know.

1:30:50.120 --> 1:30:53.439
<v Speaker 2>But then I'll go over maybe ski Genghis, right, you know,

1:30:53.479 --> 1:30:55.519
<v Speaker 2>So then I'm making my you know, all the way over.

1:30:55.960 --> 1:30:58.360
<v Speaker 2>So maybe I'm then skiing the slot and I'm skiing

1:30:58.400 --> 1:31:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Genghis and then I'm going back to Blue Sky and

1:31:00.720 --> 1:31:05.760
<v Speaker 2>going you know over to our earls and skiing CJ's

1:31:06.960 --> 1:31:09.439
<v Speaker 2>and you know, and and it's kind of taking a

1:31:09.439 --> 1:31:12.759
<v Speaker 2>couple of laps there then going back across and skiing

1:31:14.600 --> 1:31:18.439
<v Speaker 2>lovers Leap and then down to Pete's maybe doing one

1:31:18.520 --> 1:31:22.760
<v Speaker 2>run on resolution or two runs on resolution, you know,

1:31:22.880 --> 1:31:26.960
<v Speaker 2>then lunch, then back and then yeah, then I'll kind

1:31:26.960 --> 1:31:31.240
<v Speaker 2>of finish up my day skiing. You know, it's still good.

1:31:32.439 --> 1:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Then I'll be back skiing. Yeah, like all the other

1:31:37.080 --> 1:31:40.000
<v Speaker 2>you know. Now I'm skiing Opre Fou, I'm skiing you know,

1:31:40.360 --> 1:31:43.240
<v Speaker 2>maybe WFO or you know. Then I'm going into the

1:31:43.280 --> 1:31:49.240
<v Speaker 2>all the outer locations or into Teacup.

1:31:49.520 --> 1:31:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Just to drill a little bit. So if you're not

1:31:51.920 --> 1:31:55.479
<v Speaker 1>out early, you will take the gondola to four and

1:31:55.520 --> 1:31:57.840
<v Speaker 1>then take the road all the way to fourteen and

1:31:57.840 --> 1:31:58.639
<v Speaker 1>then go to the back.

1:32:00.479 --> 1:32:00.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:32:01.000 --> 1:32:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Probably, Well, I don't know, or I'm yes, I would

1:32:03.840 --> 1:32:06.760
<v Speaker 2>do that, or I would take I might even go

1:32:06.800 --> 1:32:09.200
<v Speaker 2>all the way over to depending on the day, go

1:32:09.240 --> 1:32:11.880
<v Speaker 2>over to the bottom of six, take six up and

1:32:11.920 --> 1:32:15.599
<v Speaker 2>then go from six the top of six to to ten,

1:32:15.720 --> 1:32:18.800
<v Speaker 2>ten to fourteen, fourteen up, or I might go down

1:32:18.840 --> 1:32:24.280
<v Speaker 2>to Yeah, take the take take the gondola up four up, down,

1:32:24.960 --> 1:32:27.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, to the bottom, and then maybe take slot

1:32:27.520 --> 1:32:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and then go up nine and then go into either

1:32:31.360 --> 1:32:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Teacup or Genghis. You know whatever, and then get from there.

1:32:36.880 --> 1:32:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Some of this also depends on like how good the

1:32:38.720 --> 1:32:42.280
<v Speaker 2>snow is in all the gullies, so how many cat

1:32:42.320 --> 1:32:44.360
<v Speaker 2>tracks are you taking to get back or can you

1:32:44.439 --> 1:32:47.040
<v Speaker 2>actually ski through the gullies to get to Yeah, the

1:32:47.080 --> 1:32:48.240
<v Speaker 2>base of the blue cut.

1:32:49.200 --> 1:32:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Well that's what you know. People don't realize they talk

1:32:51.600 --> 1:32:53.920
<v Speaker 1>about the lines. I mean, if I have to start

1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:56.639
<v Speaker 1>at the gondola, if there's a big line at three

1:32:56.640 --> 1:32:59.400
<v Speaker 1>and four, I just take the road to ten. And

1:32:59.479 --> 1:33:02.120
<v Speaker 1>what people don't know. You know, you can ski down

1:33:02.840 --> 1:33:05.639
<v Speaker 1>half of the front side and take the road over

1:33:05.720 --> 1:33:08.759
<v Speaker 1>to six. Certainly once you get like ten, ten thirty,

1:33:08.760 --> 1:33:12.000
<v Speaker 1>there's no line at six, and there's never been a

1:33:12.040 --> 1:33:14.160
<v Speaker 1>line at ten. I don't know if I want to

1:33:14.200 --> 1:33:17.559
<v Speaker 1>give away all my secrets. But by the same token,

1:33:17.640 --> 1:33:20.000
<v Speaker 1>people are bitching about the lines. I don't get it.

1:33:21.040 --> 1:33:25.000
<v Speaker 2>I agree, well, you and I have the great fortune

1:33:25.280 --> 1:33:27.720
<v Speaker 2>of being able to do this and recreate in these

1:33:27.760 --> 1:33:33.120
<v Speaker 2>amazing places, and yeah, it's awesome and I feel super lucky.

1:33:33.360 --> 1:33:33.559
<v Speaker 2>I do.

1:33:34.400 --> 1:33:36.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess I just want to leave it. People

1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:42.679
<v Speaker 1>don't understand the allure of skiing. You referenced it earlier. Yes,

1:33:42.800 --> 1:33:46.040
<v Speaker 1>you are outside b certainly if you're in the West.

1:33:46.080 --> 1:33:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Ten's not to be that cool. With the technical improvements

1:33:48.880 --> 1:33:51.600
<v Speaker 1>of the equipment or such that. It's not like the

1:33:51.640 --> 1:33:54.920
<v Speaker 1>old days, not like the old Duelfold days underwhere you

1:33:54.920 --> 1:33:58.759
<v Speaker 1>know they have much better runderwear. There's a thrill in skiing.

1:33:58.800 --> 1:34:01.679
<v Speaker 1>It's not like tennis. You don't have to be good

1:34:01.760 --> 1:34:04.799
<v Speaker 1>to enjoy it. As long as you're at the limit

1:34:04.880 --> 1:34:07.559
<v Speaker 1>of your ability. You could be on the beginner slope

1:34:07.840 --> 1:34:12.320
<v Speaker 1>and be thrilled. And unlike water skiing or so many

1:34:12.320 --> 1:34:16.960
<v Speaker 1>other sports, the hill is different. The hill changes certainly

1:34:17.000 --> 1:34:19.360
<v Speaker 1>if you go to another you know, people always ask

1:34:19.439 --> 1:34:22.160
<v Speaker 1>why I'm such a ski fanatic, and usually it's matter

1:34:22.400 --> 1:34:25.879
<v Speaker 1>have you ever done it? If you do not, everyone's

1:34:25.920 --> 1:34:29.639
<v Speaker 1>gonna love it, okay, But there's a certain magic even

1:34:29.720 --> 1:34:32.960
<v Speaker 1>go on, you know, social media. There's a woman you

1:34:32.960 --> 1:34:34.880
<v Speaker 1>know who learned how to ski in her twenties who

1:34:34.880 --> 1:34:37.720
<v Speaker 1>lives in breck skis one hundred days a year. You

1:34:37.880 --> 1:34:38.960
<v Speaker 1>just get the bug.

1:34:39.560 --> 1:34:39.760
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1:34:39.880 --> 1:34:42.280
<v Speaker 1>There's the issue of ski bums now that people come

1:34:42.320 --> 1:34:46.599
<v Speaker 1>from Australia and South America. But I'll leave my rap

1:34:46.640 --> 1:34:49.360
<v Speaker 1>at that. It's been a great pleasure talking you. Let's

1:34:49.360 --> 1:34:52.840
<v Speaker 1>hope for a good snow season. Your ski areas are

1:34:52.880 --> 1:34:58.880
<v Speaker 1>starting to open. Oh one final question. Do you own

1:34:58.960 --> 1:35:02.400
<v Speaker 1>your equipment or do you use what's in Epic gear?

1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:05.839
<v Speaker 2>Both? So, I own equipment, but as you can well imagine,

1:35:05.880 --> 1:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>like I own a son, so many pairs of everything

1:35:10.680 --> 1:35:12.719
<v Speaker 2>that you know, I tend not to throw them away.

1:35:12.760 --> 1:35:15.080
<v Speaker 2>But I've also used my Epic gear, so I used both.

1:35:15.120 --> 1:35:15.360
<v Speaker 1>Well.

1:35:15.760 --> 1:35:18.240
<v Speaker 2>It was awesome, Bob. I really appreciate you taking the

1:35:18.280 --> 1:35:20.600
<v Speaker 2>time to have this conversation. You and I have communicated

1:35:20.640 --> 1:35:24.320
<v Speaker 2>going all the way back, and so yeah, an awesome,

1:35:24.400 --> 1:35:28.160
<v Speaker 2>awesome opportunity for me to talk to you and all

1:35:28.200 --> 1:35:30.680
<v Speaker 2>your listeners, and I hope to see you up on

1:35:30.720 --> 1:35:31.280
<v Speaker 2>the hill of Vail.

1:35:32.160 --> 1:35:36.200
<v Speaker 1>Just one correction, because I feel guilty. When the Epic

1:35:36.280 --> 1:35:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Pass was launched it was still the high speed chair

1:35:41.360 --> 1:35:45.880
<v Speaker 1>because the gondola was installed in twenty twelve, and I

1:35:46.080 --> 1:35:48.479
<v Speaker 1>just want to go one step further. You know, listen,

1:35:48.560 --> 1:35:51.720
<v Speaker 1>I know a lot of Veil haters, et cetera. But

1:35:51.840 --> 1:35:56.240
<v Speaker 1>the infrastructure upgrades, you know what happened with north Woods

1:35:56.320 --> 1:36:00.160
<v Speaker 1>and now even game creaking the gondola. It's, as I say,

1:36:00.240 --> 1:36:03.120
<v Speaker 1>my only complaint with Vail would be wow. I wish

1:36:03.160 --> 1:36:06.240
<v Speaker 1>there could be more. You know, h territory open with

1:36:06.320 --> 1:36:08.640
<v Speaker 1>the rules looks the aside of rules. I know how

1:36:08.640 --> 1:36:12.680
<v Speaker 1>difficult that is in any of them. I'm gonna leave

1:36:12.720 --> 1:36:15.880
<v Speaker 1>it there, Rob, thanks so much for taking this time

1:36:15.920 --> 1:36:19.840
<v Speaker 1>with my audience. Till next time. This is Bob left

1:36:19.880 --> 1:36:20.200
<v Speaker 1>six