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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Bob Web Sens podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is ROBCATS, CEO and chairperson to Build Resorts. Rob,

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Speaker 1: how'd you come up with the idea for the epic Pass?

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Speaker 2: Well, Bob, it's great to be here. I appreciate you

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Speaker 2: having me on the show. And yeah, the team and

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Speaker 2: I came up with the idea way back, thinking about

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Speaker 2: how do we provide stability to a business that everybody

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Speaker 2: thought was totally dependent on whether and uh, it was

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Speaker 2: critical for us to do that to make obviously the

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Speaker 2: financial situation for our company better, but it was also

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Speaker 2: critical for us to do that to provide more stable employment,

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Speaker 2: more stable dynamics for our local communities. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: it's really been quite transformational.

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Speaker 1: So was the main goal to even out revenue or

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Speaker 1: to what degree was it to raise the revenue or

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Speaker 1: to get more skiers involved.

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Speaker 2: The main goal was really to get people to buy

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Speaker 2: their skiing before the season began, so that we'd have

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Speaker 2: more consistent visitation year in and year out, and that

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Speaker 2: people would you know, ski more even you know during

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Speaker 2: times when maybe the snow wasn't as good. But then

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Speaker 2: we also felt like because we were reducing the price

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Speaker 2: so much that it would ultimately, yeah, we'd get more

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Speaker 2: people into the sport. And actually, when you look back

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Speaker 2: over the last you know, twenty years, we've seen real growth.

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Speaker 2: Best you know, two years ever in the US ski

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Speaker 2: industry history was two of the last three.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that the epic pass alone has

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Speaker 1: driven that increase or do you think it's got more

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Speaker 1: coming out of COVID or other factors.

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Speaker 2: I think there's no doubt that COVID helped in terms

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Speaker 2: of I think you know, we were a local option

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Speaker 2: for people to take, you know, vacations too, and it

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Speaker 2: was outdoors, so that definitely helped. But I think last

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Speaker 2: year was maybe a better because last year wasn't a

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Speaker 2: COVID related year, and if anything, I think we were

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Speaker 2: seeing kind of a decline from the COVID peaks, But

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Speaker 2: last year I think highlighted that. Yeah, probably COVID activated

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Speaker 2: a bunch of dormant skiers. But when you look even

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Speaker 2: you know, look over twenty years, you know, the peak

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Speaker 2: year way back when was probably in the high forties.

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Speaker 2: Then it was the low fifties, and it was a

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Speaker 2: mid fifties, then you know, the high fifties. Now we're

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Speaker 2: in the low sixties. So I think you've seen this

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Speaker 2: pretty consistent, you know, increase, and I would say it's

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Speaker 2: it's probably some corollary effects. So because the Epic Pass

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Speaker 2: and then you know the Icon Pass and all the

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Speaker 2: other passes that have been created since, because they've stabilized

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Speaker 2: the industry, it has made the industry safer to invest.

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Speaker 2: And so you've seen a lot more money go into

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Speaker 2: ski areas around North America, actually around the world. And

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Speaker 2: so it's quite a heyday in terms of the amount

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Speaker 2: of new projects, new upgrades that you're seeing, and I

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Speaker 2: think that has also brought people into the sport.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you have a business background, you come up with

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Speaker 1: the idea of the Epic Pass. Tell us about the

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Speaker 1: actual process of running the numbers. How do you come

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Speaker 1: up with the numbers the spreadsheets to say this is

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Speaker 1: a good idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, for the Epic Pass itself, we knew right

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Speaker 2: we were reducing the price of a season pass for

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Speaker 2: us from I think it was sixteen hundred or seventeen

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars and we reduced it down to six hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: So we knew right away that there were a whole

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Speaker 2: bunch of people who were buying season passes from us,

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Speaker 2: we were going to lose money on them right at

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Speaker 2: the outfit, and so we factored that in and then

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Speaker 2: what we were saying was how many additional people could

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Speaker 2: sell an Epic pass too, And then a part of

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Speaker 2: that was how many people would be new, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of coming into At that point, we only had

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Speaker 2: five resorts, so how many would be new people and

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Speaker 2: to Veil be for Greek, Breckenridge, key Stone or Heavenly,

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Speaker 2: And then how many people would be lifted ad buyers

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Speaker 2: that might have skied two days, three days, five days,

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Speaker 2: but with the Epic pass right, they'd ski eight days

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Speaker 2: or seven days. In other words, we were looking for

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Speaker 2: both building frequency from people and then bringing new people in.

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Speaker 2: And so we looked at all that and actually in

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Speaker 2: the first year of the Epic Past we were it

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Speaker 2: was great. We sold a lot of passes, but it

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Speaker 2: was nowhere near what we thought it could be. And

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Speaker 2: it really taught us that to really convince people to

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Speaker 2: use a new product one takes a long time, and

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Speaker 2: two marketing was going to be critical to how we

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Speaker 2: delivered on that.

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Speaker 1: I happened to be in Veil the day was announced.

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Speaker 1: I walked down to the gondole and was shocked. But

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Speaker 1: tell me about the marketing challenges and how you reach

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Speaker 1: the potential ski audience today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think, by the way, I do remember

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Speaker 2: that day as well. I was in Veil. I think

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Speaker 2: we were doing news hits from the from the basement gondola.

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Speaker 2: I think at that time, I can't remember. And then,

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Speaker 2: you know, we also had a mad rush of people

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Speaker 2: who were going in to buy the past because they

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Speaker 2: all thought we had made a mistake and so they

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Speaker 2: were convinced that we were going to take it away

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Speaker 2: and you know, reverse the whole thing. You know, at

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Speaker 2: that time when we launched it, the real challenge was, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like most people thought that if you were going to

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Speaker 2: buy a season pass, you only did that because you

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Speaker 2: were a local. And so most destination skiers, even if

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Speaker 2: it made sense for them to buy the past, they

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Speaker 2: weren't looking at it because they just didn't think that

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Speaker 2: that was for them. And so back then it was

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Speaker 2: hard because we didn't have emails for everybody, we didn't

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Speaker 2: have everybody's data, we didn't have any of that. So

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Speaker 2: we were really focused on a lot of traditional media

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Speaker 2: approaches in terms of you know, getting into some display

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Speaker 2: ads and online, a bunch of traditional ads that we

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Speaker 2: were running still in a lot of the ski magazines

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Speaker 2: or newspapers, and then we were doing a lot of

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Speaker 2: kind of I don't know, unique stunts of sorts. So

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Speaker 2: I had to show how many, you know, we had

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Speaker 2: people skiing every mountain, We had people, you know, showing

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Speaker 2: how you could use it to you know, ski throughout

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Speaker 2: the year and what you could.

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Speaker 1: Do with it.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, it was it was much tougher. Today

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Speaker 2: we're in a totally different spot, right We have emails.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have like twenty five million people in

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Speaker 2: our database. You know, we have you know, basically almost

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Speaker 2: everybody who has skied is somehow in one of our databases,

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Speaker 2: unless you know, you kind of have a home and

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Speaker 2: asspen and have never stepped foot in one of our

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Speaker 2: resorts or something like that. And now, yeah, we had

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Speaker 2: a heavy effort to email people. So our goal was

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Speaker 2: really to get away from traditional meat media advertising or

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Speaker 2: even digital advertising and really focus on how to communicate

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Speaker 2: one to one with the guests over email, which served

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Speaker 2: us incredibly well and responsible for a huge amount of

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Speaker 2: our growth over the past fifteen to twenty years. Over

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Speaker 2: the last three to four years, it's really shifted because

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Speaker 2: email has become kind of degenerated as a channel. People

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Speaker 2: don't open email, especially younger folks twenty to thirty really

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Speaker 2: don't open email. And so what we're doing right now

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Speaker 2: is we're pivoting towards social channels. We're pivoting towards direct

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Speaker 2: engagement through our app and on mobile, and so we're

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Speaker 2: really kind of moving that one to one relationship into

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Speaker 2: a different spot.

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Speaker 1: So where'd you grow up?

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Speaker 2: I grew up in Nurshell, New York, about thirty minutes

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Speaker 2: north of Manhattan, famous for the I think it was

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Speaker 2: the Dick Van Dykes show exactly supposedly took place there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And what did your parents do for a living?

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Speaker 2: My mom was an artist and my dad was a

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Speaker 2: local attorney.

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Speaker 1: In How many siblings did you have?

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Speaker 2: I have one younger sibling, a brother.

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Speaker 1: And what is he up to?

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Speaker 2: He is in the mortgage finance business. Lives still back east,

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Speaker 2: living in West Hampstead of Long Island.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of kid were you?

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Speaker 2: What kind of kid was I? I was? You know,

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Speaker 2: I was very into being active for sure, and you know,

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Speaker 2: within my family. I was kind of the first one

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Speaker 2: to get the bug to go skiing. It definitely, you know,

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Speaker 2: growing up. You know, I think that certainly the history

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Speaker 2: of my family, you know, coming over from Eastern Europe

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Speaker 2: and then settling and living in the Bronx and in

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Speaker 2: Queen's Originally, yeah, like there was no skiing and anybody's background.

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Speaker 2: But I did a couple of class trips to Hunter Mountain,

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Speaker 2: and even though I was you know, skiing in jeans

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Speaker 2: and I was soaking and I'd be on the bus

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Speaker 2: right back, it was, yeah, I really got I really

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Speaker 2: got into it. And then I was lucky that my cousin,

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Speaker 2: first cousin and my uncle, you know, they their family

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Speaker 2: really got into skiing and they started skiing around the Northeast,

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Speaker 2: and then I would tag along with them, or sometimes

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Speaker 2: my whole family would tag along with them, and they

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Speaker 2: ultimately bought a house at Stratton, and so I did

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Speaker 2: wind up spending kind of from I don't know, fifteen

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Speaker 2: to twenty skiing at Stratton. I actually remember at twenty

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Speaker 2: I took my first trip out to Vail. I remember

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Speaker 2: I was twenty one or twenty two, I can remember,

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Speaker 2: and my cousin had to give me like tips on

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Speaker 2: how to transition my style from skiing on the ice

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Speaker 2: in the east to the powder out west.

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Speaker 1: So well, how much were you skiing in those days

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Speaker 1: from age fifteen to twenty or even earlier than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably ten to twenty days, maybe a year in ten,

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Speaker 2: you know, something in that, depending on you know where

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Speaker 2: we took drips ten to fifteen. I mean it's certainly,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was still a long drive, and even

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Speaker 2: the trip to Hunter was a big, a bit of

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Speaker 2: a schlub. So certainly not something I was doing day

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Speaker 2: in and day out. But but it was every year,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was something I cared about. I was

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Speaker 2: an avid. I loved you know, going up to the

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Speaker 2: resorts and watching Warren Miller, you know clips on TV

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Speaker 2: that I was, you know, would get you jazzed up

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Speaker 2: for the next year, going to like the local ski shops,

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Speaker 2: uh and you know looking at new gear. Did you

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Speaker 2: go to Hickory and Tweed Hickory Tweet? No, I think

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Speaker 2: it was it was it was it paragrine or pedigree

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Speaker 2: or I can't remember. It's in white planes. It was

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Speaker 2: like a really good ski shop there. But I also

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Speaker 2: wound up just because I, you know, didn't have to

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Speaker 2: grow up with a lot of resources, so a lot

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Speaker 2: of my stuff was hand me downe from somebody else.

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Speaker 2: Was fun.

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Speaker 1: Okay, in school, what kind of kid were you like?

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Speaker 1: President of the class or a loaner? Were you involved

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Speaker 1: in sports? What were you like?

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Speaker 2: I was definitely I was not president of the class,

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Speaker 2: but wasn't a loner either. I was more kind of

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Speaker 2: in the middle. And actually my personality type is right

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Speaker 2: on the edge between introvert and extrovert, so that's the

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Speaker 2: kind of would define me a little bit. Was into sports,

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Speaker 2: but also, you know, I was into I was, you know,

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Speaker 2: much stronger in math and science than I was in English,

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Speaker 2: and so wound up, you know, kind of leaning in

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Speaker 2: that direction. And then ultimately, you know, when I went

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Speaker 2: to college, I went to the engineering school at the

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Speaker 2: University of Pennsylvania because that's what I thought I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be, only to find out that engineering is really hard,

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Speaker 2: so I switched to something So I switched to something

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Speaker 2: easier and went into business.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about being on the knife edge, the

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Speaker 1: line between introvert and extrovert, and how that manifest itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it manifests itself in that I think

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Speaker 2: I have the ability to be extrovert, and so I

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Speaker 2: think that has certainly served me well was you know,

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Speaker 2: I think the I'm not sure I fully when I

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Speaker 2: took the CEO job in Veil at two thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I fully understood how extroverted I would

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Speaker 2: have to be. But that has helped tremendously. But the

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Speaker 2: introvert side comes out in yeah that when I'm not

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Speaker 2: at my job and I'm not you know kind of

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Speaker 2: you know, doing that for work. Yeah, I'm not running

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Speaker 2: around to parties. I'm happy to be home, you know,

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Speaker 2: with a quiet evening, you know, with friends or family

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Speaker 2: or whoever. So definitely, and I can easily spend yeah,

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Speaker 2: oodles of time on my own. But I would say

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Speaker 2: I get a lot of energy. And it's one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons I came back as CEO, you know, I

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Speaker 2: left at the end of twenty twenty one and then

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Speaker 2: come back came back you know, this past May and

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. And one of the things I've loved

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Speaker 2: the most is the energy that I get from the

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Speaker 2: you know, broader community here at fail Resorts and in

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Speaker 2: the industry because it's yeah, so much passion and so energizing,

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Speaker 2: So that that's how I can kind of be in

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Speaker 2: both worlds.

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Speaker 1: So when you are home, you're not working in your alone,

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Speaker 1: how do you spend your time?

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Speaker 2: Uh? You know, I'm I I have a few things

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Speaker 2: that I yeah, I'm super passionate about. One is cycling.

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Speaker 2: You know, used to be both road and mountain. Too

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Speaker 2: many injuries, so now more mountain and gravel a lot less,

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Speaker 2: no more technical mountain biking. I'm kind of too old

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Speaker 2: for it. Uh. And yoga has been like become a

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Speaker 2: really critical part of my life. Uh. And yeah, staying

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Speaker 2: staying in shape certainly, yeah, you know. And then I'd

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Speaker 2: say reading, walking, hiking, being outdoors, spending time with my kids. Uh,

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Speaker 2: all of that has es central traveling. Uh you know,

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Speaker 2: I you know, to me, like my ability to decompress

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Speaker 2: is is really important. I don't think I could be

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Speaker 2: good at my job if I didn't have like enough

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Speaker 2: time to actually unlind And yeah, that to me is

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Speaker 2: also just doing what's comfortable in the moment.

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Speaker 1: And in this job, does the phone ring, does email

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Speaker 1: come in at all hours or is it more regular

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Speaker 1: business schedule? You know, during the day, eight to six whatever,

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Speaker 1: and occasionally on the weekend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, one, the phone never rings, so

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Speaker 2: I don't. I rarely answer the phone if somebody did call.

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Speaker 2: So I do rely on either emails or text as

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Speaker 2: a communication channel for me, And I would say most

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Speaker 2: of it is, yeah, normal business hours, I don't. I

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Speaker 2: personally don't try and generate a lot of emails. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, at night or over the weekends. I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think maybe I probably did do that,

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Speaker 2: you know, I just when I started to CEO is

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Speaker 2: thirty nine, I probably was in that mode for a

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Speaker 2: little bit. But you kind of quickly learn that if

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Speaker 2: you want long term success, like you can't burn yourself

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Speaker 2: out or everybody else out around you. So I kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, ease back on that now. That said, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to visit the resorts, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to meet people within the industry, I'm going to make connections,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to meet investors. So there's a lot of hours.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know when you add it all up

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Speaker 2: in terms of what gets dedicated to the company, But

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Speaker 2: I don't know. For me, it's you know, I think

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Speaker 2: working at Veil resorts allows you to align who you

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Speaker 2: are with what you do. And I'm a skier and

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Speaker 2: so you know the fact that I get to work

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Speaker 2: on that is uh, yeah, I don't view it as

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Speaker 2: work and life balance. Is just my life.

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Speaker 1: And how many kids do you have?

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Speaker 2: I have two kids, and what are they up to? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: older son who's twenty seven, who works in New York

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Speaker 2: at a startup, and then a younger son who's twenty

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Speaker 2: five and is, yeah, working in North Carolina doing ceramics

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Speaker 2: and pots ceramics and farming.

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Speaker 1: So they're growing up with you. You start to work

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Speaker 1: at Bill Resorts. You know, there's many issues here, whether

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Speaker 1: you force your kids to ski, whether they come to themselves.

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Speaker 1: Were your kids into skiing?

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Speaker 2: My kids are into skiing right from the get go,

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Speaker 2: so I did not have to force them whatsoever. And

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Speaker 2: you know, it's been Yeah, one of the most amazing

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Speaker 2: experiences of my life has been watching their progression on

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Speaker 2: skis and getting a chance to ski with them, and

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Speaker 2: of course the faithful day coming down high line at

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Speaker 2: Vale where they were waiting for me instead of the reverse,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it was like a very humbling moment

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Speaker 2: realizing I was getting older, and I was never going

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Speaker 2: to catch them again. That was the end of that.

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Speaker 2: And now that's pretty much anytime, like the three of

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Speaker 2: us went ski. We've been to Japan twice to ski

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Speaker 2: and the last time we did some Helli skiing and

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Speaker 2: sharabetsu and it. You know, the three of us went.

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Speaker 2: We had an amazing day and they were absolutely like

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Speaker 2: they were caretaking me. There was nothing happening in the

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Speaker 2: reverse on that front.

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Speaker 1: Well, Warren Miller said, there's one day that you and

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Speaker 1: your kids ski at the same ability.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you're at Penn Engineering isn't a good fit?

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Speaker 1: Your mother was an artist. You could have gone into

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. Why did you go to Wharton

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Speaker 1: in business?

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Speaker 2: You know, I felt like, I mean I said this

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Speaker 2: at the time, and maybe it was a line to

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Speaker 2: get myself into Wharton, But but it's turned out to

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Speaker 2: be true, Which is I still love, you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of math and science, and I'm definitely an analytic person.

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Speaker 2: But I like the social component of Maybe it goes

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Speaker 2: back to the introvert extrovert thing. I like the social

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Speaker 2: component of business. I like the fact that relationships mattered

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Speaker 2: in business, and in a way the arc of my

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Speaker 2: business career. You know, I started in private equity. I

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Speaker 2: started investment banking, then in private equity, but really made

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Speaker 2: this decision that I didn't want to do private equity

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Speaker 2: forever because I liked the connection. I like the team,

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Speaker 2: I like being part of a group, and so that

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Speaker 2: initially was what I liked about business versus engineering.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you graduate from Wharton, how do you get a job?

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Speaker 1: Is your first job Apollo?

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Speaker 2: No, my first job was I went out and looked

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Speaker 2: for a variety of different jobs, mostly in banking, and

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Speaker 2: I wound up with I think getting like three different offers.

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Speaker 2: One was like an options trading, which I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to do. The other was working at an investment bank

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Speaker 2: called Drexel Burnham of Mike Milkan fame, and then the

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Speaker 2: last was at a private equity firm called I think

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Speaker 2: it was a CDC. And you know, now it would

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Speaker 2: seem obvious that you would go to the private equity firm,

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Speaker 2: but at the time, like private equity wasn't really a

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Speaker 2: big to do as much as it is today, and

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Speaker 2: so it felt like going to an investment bank made

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Speaker 2: the most sense. You know, Drexel at that point was

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Speaker 2: already under investigation, so there was a bit of a

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Speaker 2: cloud over the company. And I remember going out on

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Speaker 2: my cell dinner after I got an offer from Drexel

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Speaker 2: and the VP was telling I was telling the VP,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't sure that I wanted to go to Drexel

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Speaker 2: because they were under investigation, and the VP looked at

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Speaker 2: me and said, you know, you seem like a smart kid,

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Speaker 2: and you know what I'm telling you, don't worry about that.

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Speaker 2: You come to Drexel. You're going to have an amazing experience,

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Speaker 2: and even if things go wrong, you'll tell everybody for

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Speaker 2: the rest of your life that you worked together. And

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Speaker 2: it turned out to be totally true. And then, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wound up, you know after Drexel.

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Speaker 1: Really, wait, so you went to work for Drexel. How

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Speaker 1: long till it blew up?

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Speaker 2: Eighteen months?

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Speaker 1: And then what, you're just out of college. You make

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Speaker 1: this decision. How do you rescue yourself from that?

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Speaker 2: It was I thought like my career was over, but

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Speaker 2: I wound up Yeah, having an opportunity to Yeah, a

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Speaker 2: lot I did. I really worked hard when I was

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Speaker 2: a Drexel and I had made a lot of good

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Speaker 2: relationships and now all these people went to all different

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Speaker 2: firms across Wall Street, and so yeah, I think it

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Speaker 2: actually wound up being this huge blessing in disguise for me.

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Speaker 2: The people who ultimately started Apollo Leon black Mark Rowan,

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Speaker 2: they wound up, you know, they were working on Apollo

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Speaker 2: at the time, but they didn't have anything, and so

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Speaker 2: they they wanted to know if I want to go

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Speaker 2: with them, but they said they couldn't pay me. I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I needed money, and so I wound up taking a

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Speaker 2: job at Smith Barney in their financial restructuring group for

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Speaker 2: about six months, and then in August of nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: they called me again and said, oh, you know we

390
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Speaker 2: are now, we have money and where we can pay

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Speaker 2: you if you want to come over and join us.

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Speaker 2: And so I wound up making the move in August

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Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety to join Apollo. When at that point

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Speaker 2: there I was the sixth person, you know, in the

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Speaker 2: New York office. We're working in offices that we rented

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Speaker 2: from somebody else month to month. I had a computer

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Speaker 2: that we rented by the month. It was. It was

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Speaker 2: a long way from the Apollo of today.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what was your relationship with the other five people

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Speaker 1: such as they invited you, and what did you think

401
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Speaker 1: was going to work about Apollo?

402
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Speaker 2: My relationship was really with this two guys, one of

403
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Speaker 2: whom was Mark Rowan, who's currently the CEO of Apollo,

404
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Speaker 2: and I'd worked for them while I was at Drexel

405
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Speaker 2: as an analyst, and it was really they. I mean,

406
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Speaker 2: I had some contact with Leon and John Hannon, but

407
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Speaker 2: really it was it was you know, these other guys

408
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Speaker 2: that brought me along. And what I thought for me

409
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Speaker 2: as a young kid was that having money and investing

410
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Speaker 2: money would allow me to have a much I'd get

411
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Speaker 2: more experience, and it allowed me to do a lot

412
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Speaker 2: more than being on the banking side, where you're selling

413
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Speaker 2: to clients, where those clients generally don't want to hear

414
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Speaker 2: from a twenty three year old. But if we're investing

415
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Speaker 2: from Apollo, then that's something that yeah, I thought I

416
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Speaker 2: thought could could help boost my career, which which it did.

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Speaker 1: So what did you start out doing it? Apollo?

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Speaker 2: We were looking for, you know, traditional buyouts. We certainly

419
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Speaker 2: were looking for like other private equity firms, but a

420
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Speaker 2: lot of what we were doing was looking for or

421
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: companies that were in financial distress, companies that were good

422
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 2: companies but had taken on too much debt, and then

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Speaker 2: we were willing to then go invest in those companies,

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Speaker 2: or invest in the debt of those companies, and then

425
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Speaker 2: try and restructure them so we could have an ownership state.

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Speaker 2: And that ultimately was how I got connected with Fail

427
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Speaker 2: because Veil at that time, back in nineteen ninety one

428
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Speaker 2: was owned by a company called Gillette Holdings, which was

429
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Speaker 2: like a little personal conglomerate of George Gillett, and the

430
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Speaker 2: company had fail the Mountain Packer Land, a meat packing company,

431
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Speaker 2: and then three television stations, and so we wound up

432
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Speaker 2: making a big investment there and ultimately taking control, and

433
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Speaker 2: then we sold off the meat packer and the television

434
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Speaker 2: stations and wound up with what was then called Veil Associates.

435
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: So whose idea was it? An invest in bail? And

436
00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: how did you end up on the board?

437
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: I think you know it was you know, I think

438
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 2: I had done a lot of the initial work, but

439
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: folks like Leon and Mark, I mean everybody. At that point,

440
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 2: we were small enough that everybody weighed in on any investment.

441
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 2: So I think there was a view that that all

442
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 2: of us had that you know that Veil was a

443
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: unique business. And then at that point it was Veil

444
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 2: in Beaver Creek that it was a unique business that

445
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 2: was really not being valued appropriately by people, and so

446
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: we thought we could invest in it. So we closed

447
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: ultimately took control of that company at the end of

448
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, and then in nineteen ninety six we

449
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: were taking the company public as Veil Resorts. And that's

450
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: when I went on the board.

451
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: Okay, you went behind the years. You have any imposter syndrome?

452
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: You know, yes, in a lot of moments, you know,

453
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 2: especially because I was pretty young, and so you know,

454
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: it was often that people treated me as as young,

455
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: and I think, yeah, I had out of half imposter

456
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: syndrome and half a little bit of a chip on

457
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: my shoulder that you know, that I could carry my

458
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 2: own even though I was young. And so you know,

459
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: I tried to kind of go back and forth between

460
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: those two.

461
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: Things and what were the issues back then running Bill

462
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: Resorts Bill Associates, Yeah, how we.

463
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: Could turn it into a more consistent business, right it

464
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 2: was it was about like how do we skiing? At

465
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: that point, people who own ski resorts, for the most part,

466
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: either use them to sell real estate at the base

467
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: of the ski resort or they were just a complete hobby,

468
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: you know, kind of trophy asset like a sports team.

469
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: And so we were trying to do we were trying

470
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: to make the ski business itself the main business and

471
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,239
Speaker 2: not real estate, and we were trying to run it

472
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: more professionally, not like, you know, like just just a toy.

473
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: Okay. Whose idea was it to focus on the mountain

474
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: as opposed to real estate date.

475
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: I think I think actually George Gillette, I think probably

476
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: before we owned it, I think started some of that,

477
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: But then we really felt like, you know, the real

478
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: estate development business was just a very different business and

479
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: and that we could you know that ultimately skiing, just

480
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: like a lot of other parts of travel hotels, resorts, casinos,

481
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: cruise lines, like there's there should be a place in

482
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 2: that for for a ski resort. And so, you know,

483
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: I think we decided that that's where we were going

484
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: to focus. And one of the big ways that we

485
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: wound up making a kind of decision or investment behind

486
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: that was when we bought Keystone and Breckinridge. Uh, you know,

487
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: because once we did that, then obviously we were making

488
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: an even bigger bat on the broader.

489
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: Skis inherently skiing is a seasonal business. You have all

490
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: this money, Why invest in such a challenged business that

491
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: has a imited time span and it's depending on mother nature?

492
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that is that's long, you know,

493
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 2: has long been the challenge within the industry is why

494
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: do that? I think I think the seasonal component of

495
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: the business is unique, but it's also not. We're not

496
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: the only business that is seasonal. So lots of parts

497
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: of travel, you know, are seasonal as well. Obviously, you know,

498
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: there's amazing you know travel, you know, businesses and in

499
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: warm weather locations that in the you know are great

500
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 2: in our winter, but in this our summer, you know,

501
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: don't make any sense. I think one of the benefits,

502
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: at least of ski resorts is that they're pretty amazing

503
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 2: places to travel in both the winter and the summer,

504
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 2: even though you don't ski in the summer. So I

505
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: think that gave us some confidence that there was some

506
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: year round support and you could, even if we weren't

507
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: going to make the money in the summer, there were

508
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: jobs for people, so you could have more consistent employment.

509
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: Things like that. I think all the weather, Yeah, that

510
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,239
Speaker 2: was that that was a challenge, and I think we

511
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: initially felt like the way to try and diversify was

512
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: maybe buying more resorts, being in other businesses. So we

513
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: initially spent a bunch of time investing in lodging, investing

514
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: in retail, but no until we really put out the

515
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: Epic Pass, you know, which is a little ways after that. Yeah,

516
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: I think the business still traded at a pretty reduced

517
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: multiple because of them.

518
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: We're in this picture. Do you meet your wife?

519
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: I met my wife in let's see in nineteen ninety two,

520
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 3: and actually she was with me when we made the

521
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: first investment and when we closed our investment in Veil

522
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: back in nineteen ninety two.

523
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: So, you know, my wife unfortunately passed away earlier this year.

524
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: Oh God, trying to hear that.

525
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: That's okay, But yeah, she's very much always with me

526
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: because she you know, has Yeah, it has been on

527
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: this bail ride with me from the very beginning.

528
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: Was ill.

529
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she was.

530
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, So how do you cope with that?

531
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard. It's not a simple thing, that's for sure.

532
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm a I'm a big believer in

533
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 2: yeah that, you know, I don't know focusing on your

534
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: own emotions, focusing on your own mental well being. I

535
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: mean this was all before I went through the last

536
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of years with her. It's critical

537
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: so and that I think that plus yeah, amazing, you know,

538
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: family with both of my kids and the relationship that

539
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: I have with both of them. Lots of other family,

540
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: lots of friends, colleagues, Yeah, like anyone. That's how you

541
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: get through, you know, the tough times.

542
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you go home there's no one there.

543
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: That's true. That's not easy, but you know, you learn

544
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: that life. There's a lot of things that happened in

545
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: your life that you are amazed by and you feel

546
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: like are good fortune. And there are things that happened

547
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: that are tougher. And yeah, I think for me, at

548
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: least I try and you know, understand that that's going

549
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: to be part of the journey, you know, one way

550
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: or the other. But not easy, that's for sure. Not easy.

551
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: Did that have any factor in you coming back to

552
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: the CEO job.

553
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: Not really, I think, uh, you know, I think at

554
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: the end of the day, the you know, the board

555
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: made a decision that they thought it was time to

556
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: make a change, and once they did that, it was

557
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: really about for me. Obviously I was going to be

558
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 2: supporting the company no matter what, but did I want

559
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: to raise my hand to do this on a more

560
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: extended basis and more permanent basis. And for me it

561
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: was you know, yeah, less about my wife and what

562
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: happened there and much more about my passion for the

563
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: company and the people who work here. Kind of understanding

564
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: that maybe the better part of my entire working life

565
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: has been associated with skiing in one you know, shape

566
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,959
Speaker 2: or another, And yeah, that I wanted to see, you know,

567
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: through this next phase of the sport.

568
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: Okay, what are all the revenue streams of bill resorts?

569
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: To this point, you say you're focusing on the mountain,

570
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: which of course is lift tickets, ski school, food. But

571
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: you hang out and Veil long enough and they say, well,

572
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: Veil owns these retail shops. So what are all the

573
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: revenue streams?

574
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think on the mountain it's obviously lift

575
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: tickets and you know season passes are you know, lift

576
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: access in total right or critical plus? Yeah, then you've

577
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: got ski school and food you know, up on the mountain.

578
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: Then we have rentals, which is a big business and

579
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: a lot that we think we can change there. Uh,

580
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: and then in the base we also have I call

581
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: it like more specialty technical retail stores. That's part of

582
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 2: our business. We're we're not really in broader you know,

583
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: the further way you get from technical you know, ski

584
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: gear and stuff like that. It's not really where we

585
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 2: play in our retail business. We do have a collection

586
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: of hotels, We do have a collection of condos that

587
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: we manage, so that makes up our hospitality business. But

588
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: but we are really a ski company and we you know,

589
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: have circled back to that over the years, we've thought

590
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: about the company has tried different ways to expand, We've

591
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: thought about are there different ways for us to expand,

592
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: And in all of those scenarios, we really come back

593
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: to know at our core, the thing we do better

594
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: than anyone else in the world is skiing and stillboarding.

595
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: So what percentage of revenue is driven from the hill,

596
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: lift tickets, food and ski school rentals, not retail, not accommodations.

597
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have it off the top of my head,

598
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: but but yeah, the vast majority of our revenue does

599
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: come from the mountain. So I mean it is you know,

600
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: i'd say off mountain off mountain retail and lodging is

601
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: a much smaller percentage, and I think even more even

602
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: smaller when you think about the profitability of those businesses

603
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: versus the profitability of the mountain.

604
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: Okay, where are the growth opportunities in the ski industry?

605
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, for us, I think it's

606
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: on a couple of fronts. I believe actually that there

607
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: we're going to see a sea change in the sport

608
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: over the next five to ten years from what we've

609
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: seen over the last ten to fifteen. So I think

610
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: what's defined the sport over the last you know, ten

611
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: to twenty years has been passes, right, and obviously US

612
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: coming up with the Epic Pass, and then Icon and

613
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: Mountain Collective and the Indie Pass here, and then you've

614
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: got other passes in Europe and elsewhere. That has been

615
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: the defining feature. We've also seen a lot of investment

616
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: go into the resorts, but most of that has gone

617
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: into lists and including for us, we've spent a huge

618
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 2: amount of money on loot. I think when you look

619
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: to the future, it's going to be different. First, I

620
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: think we've probably reached a little bit of a maturity

621
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 2: level on passes the last two years, we've seen actual

622
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: declines in past visitation when you look at you know,

623
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: the industry across America.

624
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: But we are we talking about past sales or the

625
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: number of days people use the pass.

626
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: The number I'm talking on this one of the number

627
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: of days people visit on a path. So we've seen

628
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: that actually decline versus increases actually in visitation from lifting.

629
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: It's that's the first time we've seen that in years too.

630
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: You've seen obviously our you know, we had explosive past

631
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 2: growth over fifteen years, but even in the last four, right,

632
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 2: our past sales growth has been up fifty percent, But

633
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: over the last two years you've seen it decline, you know,

634
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: two percent to three percent. With Icon, you're seeing their

635
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: pass to you know, kind of stabilize this year as well.

636
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: They're not growing what they were either, and so I

637
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: think you're going to start to see a shift towards

638
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: lift tickets being actually the next focus area for us

639
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: and everyone else, which is how do you sell to

640
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: the remaining people? Seventy five percent of our visits come

641
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: out of pass but that still leaves a big chunk

642
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: of the market out there. How do we now go

643
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: after that? Market, how do we elevate the resort brands

644
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: one by one rather than just the Epic brand. That's

645
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: one piece which we think, actually and I think COVID

646
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 2: actually showed that there are a lot of people who

647
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: know how to ski. That's not really the huge issue.

648
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: The issue is how do we get them to the

649
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: mountain in more years? How do we get them in

650
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: the years they come to ski more days, how do

651
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 2: we kind of continue to build that engagement. So that's

652
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: something we're very focused on. And then how do we

653
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 2: get the skiers who we have to bring their friends

654
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: and families, which is one of the reasons why this

655
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 2: year we introduced the Epic Friends Ticket, which gives fifty

656
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: percent off to any passholder if they bring somebody to

657
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 2: the mountain on their lifting it. So that's something that's

658
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 2: really critical for us. The other piece is we think

659
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: there's an opportunity to completely change how people use gear,

660
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: own gear, rent gear when they're going up on the mountain.

661
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: I think that is a part of everyone needs to

662
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 2: have gear before you can go up in the mountain, right,

663
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: that is a prerequisite. But you look at that market

664
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: and the way that business is set up and basically

665
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: you have a whole bunch of people who own gear

666
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: who don't use it that often. Even people who ski

667
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: ten days a year and own gear think they need

668
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: to own gear. Well, that gear is just sitting in

669
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: their closet for the other fifty one weeks of the year.

670
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 2: And obviously then you know, yes, there are a painful

671
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: of people that ski eighty days one hundred days a year. Sure,

672
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: owning gear makes sense. Then you've got all these people

673
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: who are renting gear and their gear rental process is

674
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: just not improved that much of the last fifty years.

675
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 2: They're not necessarily getting the best gear. It's not easy

676
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: for them. You know, they don't know what ski or

677
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 2: booth they are going to get. And in our minds

678
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 2: like that's right for a complete overhaul and something we're

679
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 2: going to be focused on quite a bit over the

680
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 2: next five years, that there's really no reason for most

681
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: people to own gear and everyone should be able to say, hey,

682
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 2: I just want to know that the ski I want

683
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 2: and the food I want is going to be ready

684
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: for me at the mountain whenever I show up, and

685
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: we feel like, yeah, over the long haul, that's something

686
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: we can deliver on. Ski school is another one where

687
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: we see real growth by digitizing the experience. Another business

688
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 2: that has not changed, you know, again in twenty thirty years.

689
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: Obviously the course ski lesson is not going to change.

690
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: But we can track people's progress, right the instructor can

691
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: track their progress and provide that either to the guests

692
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: or to their parents. We can provide photos and video,

693
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: we can have video analysis. You know, all the things

694
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: that you're seeing that exist out there, but none of

695
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: that has been brought into the ski industry that you know,

696
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: we think we can do. And the last piece i'd

697
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 2: say is even on the food side, I think I

698
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: think we lost our a little bit on food during COVID.

699
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: Obviously we couldn't do what we wanted to do during COVID,

700
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: which is fine, but I don't think we fully brought

701
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: back what food service can be to the to our resorts.

702
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: And that's something we're going to be focused on. And

703
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 2: you see what's going on on food in all kinds

704
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: of entertainment venues, and I think the ski industry has

705
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 2: an opportunity to kind of follow that trend.

706
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: Okay, breaking it down, you talk about all these people

707
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: who know how to skate, what's the number one friction

708
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: point that's preventing them from being on the hill.

709
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, what we see is that for the person who

710
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 2: knows how to ski, it's the ease of the vacation.

711
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: So I think people have a sense that it's still

712
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: a difficult vacation and gear is a big component of

713
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: that difficulty. So you know, if you own gear, then

714
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 2: you've got to schlep your gear to the resort. If

715
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: you don't own gear, then you've got to worry about

716
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 2: renting gear, and you don't know what you're going to get.

717
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 2: You don't know that you're to get the boot you want,

718
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: or even if you own boots, you don't know what

719
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: ski exactly to get what condition it's going to be,

720
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: And there's you're waiting online or you're you know all,

721
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: there's all these little pain points around gear that I

722
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: think are a real challenge. Two. For sure, there's a

723
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 2: I think a view of Yeah, people want to feel

724
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 2: comfortable when they're up on the mountain. I do think

725
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: like there's been huge advances in both apparel technical apparel,

726
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,959
Speaker 2: which you know certainly I know when you started skiing,

727
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: when I started skiing, went completely different. Uh, And then

728
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: on the booth. What huge change has happened in boots

729
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: that I think within the industry people kind of understand,

730
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: but outside the industry, I don't think people will realize,

731
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: which is the Boa buckle on boots. So Boa is

732
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: a technology that was you know developed, I know it

733
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: because it's you know, it's used extensively on cycling shoes

734
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 2: where it's essentially a cable that runs through the shoe

735
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 2: and then you screw down the cable and then you

736
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: when it's time to release it, you kind of push

737
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: a button. It just releases and you can step out

738
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: of it. But it really creates a kind of custom

739
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: fit to the shoe. Well that was introduced into boots

740
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: I think it was two years ago and has now

741
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: created this sea change. So three years ago, we're the

742
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: you know, one of the biggest specialty ski retailer in

743
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: the world. You know, three years ago we sold no

744
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: boots with the Boa buckle. Today, fifty percent of the

745
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: boots we sell have a Boa buckle because people really

746
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 2: perceive it to be so much more comfortable and customized.

747
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: That is going to be a big change, and especially

748
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: as we were the first ones to introduce this into

749
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: our rental program. So once we do that, it really

750
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: has an opportunity I think to make people realize that

751
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: between the gear, between the apparel, between how we can

752
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 2: get the gear to you, Yeah, that we've eliminated a

753
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: lot of those pain points. Even the digitizing of ski school.

754
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 2: We think right now, when you drop your kid off

755
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: at ski school, you wait in a line, you can't

756
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: find you an instructor. So we're coming up with ways

757
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: again using the same technology other people are doing to

758
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: make that much much quicker. So as a parent, you know,

759
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: yeah that when you're bringing your two or three kids

760
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: to the mountain, all these pain points can go away.

761
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: Okay, it's been well documented that baby boomers, who grew

762
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: up before the business was mature, when it was growing,

763
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: are reaching their sunset years. How do we get new

764
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: skiers into the industry.

765
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the great things is that

766
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 2: that's happened, you know, in many respects, because we are

767
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: seeing obviously we couldn't have had record years the last

768
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: couple of years without that, and we are seeing you know,

769
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: kind of what the people call the echo boom, right

770
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 2: the kids of the baby boomers. And what we're seeing

771
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: is is that we you know, the think we owe

772
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 2: a lot to two trends. We talked about the season

773
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: past tun which I think has helped, you know, keep engagement.

774
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 2: But the much bigger trend was really Jake Burton, right,

775
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: and Jake Jake Burton inventing the snowboard when he did,

776
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: and of course everyone hated it, you know, all the

777
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: industry you know, kind of existing folks, and it was

778
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: banned across so many resorts. But of course, you know,

779
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 2: rather than it being like a problem for the ski industry,

780
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: and saved this games and introduced not just snowboarding, but

781
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: then action sports and the X Games and the Do

782
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: Tour and you know, Red Bull and whatever. Right, all

783
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: of that during the winter, that kind of you know,

784
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 2: action sports dynamic happens on ski resorts, and I think

785
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: that created this connection. Plus the athletes like Sean White

786
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: and everybody's come after him on that side of the sport.

787
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 2: Plus including all those action sports in the Olympics, which

788
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 2: we'll you know, see this year. Those things really provided energy.

789
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, I think as you were

790
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: the kid of a baby boomer, you had, you know,

791
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: it was cool to go on the mountain again, and

792
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: the terrain parks. I think, I'm sure you'll remember this pub.

793
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: Like used to be that if like kids tried to

794
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 2: make a feature, you know, create a job, or create

795
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, a rail or use a log to you know,

796
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: do tricks on the ski resorts would come by and

797
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: mow them all down, and you know, because they thought

798
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: it was a hazard. And now obviously the ski resorts

799
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: are creating these things, and so those kids have a

800
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: sense that they are placed on the mountain, that they

801
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: can go that no parent is going to go through

802
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: right there, and that I think has that separation and

803
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: that identity piece has helped a lot. So I actually

804
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: think we're in a really good spot there. I think

805
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: where we're not at a good spot as a sport

806
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: is that the industry is, yeah, just predominantly white, like

807
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: you know, and and so we have not made inroads

808
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 2: in yeah, minority communities here, especially the African American and

809
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 2: the Latino community, and that I think, you know, even yes,

810
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: you know, people bring up, oh there's income, Yeah, there's

811
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: a piece of that, but if you're just for income,

812
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 2: the sport is still wildly underrepresented there. But that's where

813
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: all the growth is coming. Population growth and so I

814
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: do think the sport ultimately has to find ways to

815
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: to be more welcoming and to bring in a broad

816
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: set of communities. I mean that's going to be critical

817
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 2: as you think about the next ten to twenty years.

818
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: Okay, I was growing up in the sixties and seventies.

819
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: I said skiing was cool. It was a middle class sport.

820
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: Needless to say, there wasn't the income an equality of today.

821
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: If you say you're a skier today, unless the person

822
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: you're speaking with is also a skier, they're immediately going

823
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: to speak of the cost. They say, oh, you're rich,

824
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: You're going skiing, You're rich, when really skiing has never

825
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: been less expensive, primarily because of these passes. How can

826
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: this narrative be changed? How can people see that it's

827
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: not so expensive, which will then lower the hurdle to

828
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: them participate in.

829
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it's like i'd say, it's two pieces,

830
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: and I agree with you, Bob about that. I think,

831
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: you know, look, the good news is we've seen a

832
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,760
Speaker 2: lot of increase in demand for ski resorts, especially amongst

833
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 2: high and travelers, and there are no new ski resorts

834
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 2: being created, So it does create a you know, kind

835
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: of unique supply demand dynamic that has pushed pricing up.

836
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: I think it's what you say is right, and I

837
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: think it's on us to continue to go out there

838
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: promoting the fact that, you know, if you buy a pass,

839
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: you're skiing at prices, whether it's a one day pass

840
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,439
Speaker 2: or full season pass, you're skiing on prices that, yeah,

841
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 2: are one of the best values in any part of travel,

842
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: for sure, But there are other parts, like certainly taking

843
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: the lesson is expensive, and you know, certainly buying food

844
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 2: on the mountain is expensive, and we could talk about

845
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: each one, but there are aspects, and you have to

846
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: buy gears. So when you compare going you know, on

847
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 2: a ski vacation to some of their options, it's a

848
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 2: little tougher. Now that said, really important to remember, like

849
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: as I brought up, like I started skiing at Hunter Mountain.

850
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: I did not start skiing at Veil. Most people don't

851
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: start their ski you know, journey at Veil or Park City.

852
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 2: And actually it's still pretty reasonable right to go to

853
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 2: most of these small resorts either for both for lift tickets,

854
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 2: lift tickets and rental packages, lift tickets, rental and food packages.

855
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: So it's at all these smaller resorts and local resorts

856
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 2: that you know, we have to make sure that the

857
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: that yeah, being able to come into the sport remains available.

858
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 2: And you know, our mantra is, we want to make skiing.

859
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: You know, we came up with the Epic for Everyone

860
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 2: a while back because we want to make this yeah,

861
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: really open and inclusive opportunity for everybody. Now that said,

862
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 2: it's expensive, like to run a ski resort, and it's

863
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: expensive to you know, run a mountain restaurant that is

864
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 2: so costly to build at twelve thousand feet and that

865
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: you only run one meal a day for four months.

866
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: You know, like it's hard to make money in the

867
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: restaurant business doing that. So there are things that are

868
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: not going to be cheap. But but you know, look,

869
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 2: you can show up on the mountain buying a discounted

870
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 2: lift ticket or buying a path, put a sandwich in

871
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: your pocket, and you're skiing next to a billion narrative

872
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: fraction of the cost.

873
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: But why are lessons at Veil the major resorts not

874
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,439
Speaker 1: the feeder resorts. Why are they so expensive? I grew

875
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: up when if you took a group lesson, it was

876
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: more about whether you wanted to do it or not.

877
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: Take instruction. Private lessons were always more expensive. But if

878
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: you're a kid going to ski school, I'm talking about

879
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: a young kid, four or six whatever, and you have

880
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: no equipment, it's basically five hundred dollars a day, which

881
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: is a pretty significant cost.

882
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: For a group lesson at veil As five hundred dollars

883
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: a day. That sounds a little bit, but whatever, we're

884
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: a four.

885
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: To six year old in our condo and it's basically

886
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty foot I didn't believe it myself,

887
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: but once you look at the statistics, you know they

888
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: get equipment whatever. It literally is that expensive.

889
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, with rentals, yeah it could be, and with

890
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 2: skiing it could be. I guess what i'd say is

891
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: it is there's a part of this that is the

892
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: supplied demand piece. So we actually, i'd say there's some

893
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: pretty compelling opportunities to get when you combine lift access

894
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: and lessons together, and you can get rentals as part

895
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 2: of all of that. And I think, you know, we'd

896
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 2: have to look at the time off year you're going,

897
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: but I know that there are some pretty compelling opportunities

898
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 2: at most of our resorts. But there is a piece

899
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 2: that yeah, like we have a there is a certain

900
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 2: limit on capacity in terms of how many kids we

901
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 2: can actually bring in, and so there's the yeah, there's

902
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: a cost piece to it. And it's also you know,

903
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: as we I like to remind people, despite the fact

904
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: that you know, we've done a lot with passes to

905
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: make the sport more stable, the truth is is that, yeah,

906
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: our business still goes up and down based on the weather,

907
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: which is a little trickier. But if you look at

908
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: every part of the travel business, and I'm sure you know,

909
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: and you're traveling at peak times, it's expensive. But that

910
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: is just the reality of how how you know, I

911
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: think life has gone during that. But and by the way,

912
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: even if you went to Keystone, it would be a

913
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 2: hell of a lot less expensive than going to Veil.

914
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: I mean a Veil and Beaver Creek. You're at, you know,

915
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 2: two of the best resorts on the planet, and everything

916
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: is going to be a little bit more.

917
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: Those of us who've been around, no, certainly at Deer

918
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 1: Valley and Sun Valley and Snowbasin who have the same

919
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: owner of the holding family, the food is spectacular. How

920
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: come that could never be replicated A.

921
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: Veil well, I would I would tend to say that

922
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: there are places within Veil that I think the food

923
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 2: is really amazing. You know, certainly if you're going to

924
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: two out obviously if you're going to be sitting down

925
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: at the time. Figuring to wild Wood, I think no

926
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 2: doubt that Eagle's Nest and Midvale, I think there are

927
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: opportunities for us to you know, definitely improve there. But

928
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: over to Beaver Creek, I think you'd see very similar food,

929
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: absolutely as good food as Sun Valley or Snowbasin or

930
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: Deer Valley. I think those resorts it's important to remember

931
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 2: right Vale Park City, Whistler, Breckinridge, these resorts are much

932
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: much larger. They do many many more people, and one

933
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 2: of the prioritiestr USS is to make sure that we're

934
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: moving as many people as we count through the restaurants,

935
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: and the people have a way to sit, and it

936
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: is a little bit harder to get the high touch service.

937
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 2: But if you go to a North Star, if you

938
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 2: go to a Beaver Creek, yeah you're gonna get that

939
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 2: same experience that you get at some of these other resorts.

940
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you want to if you want more

941
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 2: big Mountain scheme, right, which is a little different, and

942
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: you want that kind of larger experience, then no, you're

943
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: gonna get. But I would put yeah, the overall experience

944
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 2: a bail up against any resort in the world when

945
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: you include everything the terrain, the food, the lyft network,

946
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 2: the quality of the lift, the quality of the snow.

947
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 2: That to us is like you have to look at

948
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: it in total.

949
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about lifts. You referenced for a long

950
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: time Veil was announcing after the ski Seeson began new

951
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: lifts here and there. That has tapered off. Is that

952
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: a result of the lowering of the stock price. What

953
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: will we be thinking, you know, both in terms of

954
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: expansion and replacement going forward.

955
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, not at all. We have not. We have

956
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 2: not gotten ease back on that at all. I think

957
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: in twenty one twenty two, we announced what we called

958
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: the Epic Lift Upgrade, where we literally I think upgrade.

959
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 2: I think it was I have to remember the exact numbers,

960
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 2: like twenty lefs across the network. We spent like three

961
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million dollars per year or something. A

962
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: huge investment. I mean, I would say, I think when

963
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: you look at fail even at fail right. Over the

964
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 2: last four to five years, you've seen a lot of

965
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 2: new lifts go in so much that when you think

966
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: about Vail As Mountain, there are very few lifts that

967
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: are left to upgrade, right, And you think about the

968
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: new lift that went into the back Balls you know

969
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 2: now called seventeen. You think about the upgraded chair and

970
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 2: Game Creek, you think about obviously the upgraded Northwoods upgraded

971
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 2: Chair four. Obviously going back further, the Gondol upgraded seventeen.

972
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: So now the question is like where on Veil. You know,

973
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: there's there's almost no fixed grip lifts anymore. Everything's high speed.

974
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: We've upgraded a lot of the highest traffic lifts from

975
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: four to six person. So now the question is, well,

976
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: where do you focus on the experience and where can

977
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 2: you make a difference. You know that to us is

978
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: it's we're not backing off at all. And obviously, you

979
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: know you look at the number of lists we put

980
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 2: in across our what we'll call our big destination resorts, Keystone, Breckenridge,

981
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 2: Beaver Creek, Vale, Park City, and Whistler. Yeah, I mean

982
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: that those you could put those mountains up against any

983
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 2: mountain in the world in terms of the quality of

984
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 2: their lift network and the investment that's been put in,

985
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 2: and there are unrival But but yeah, like at some

986
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: point it's what I said earlier, Like I think that

987
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 2: where we have to invest as a company is not

988
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: necessarily just in lifts. We have to use technology in

989
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: a completely different way. I think skiing is a sport

990
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: that it lends itself to using technology again to remove

991
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 2: the pain points, you know, making sure, making it easy

992
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: to do all the things that you're doing on the mountain,

993
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: to buy your ticket, buy your path, to buy ski school,

994
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: to reserve something, to see what food is available, to

995
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: rent skis, all of these things are things that you know.

996
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: You should never be waiting on a line. You should

997
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: never be waiting on a line for lift tickets. You

998
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: should be able to navigate the entire mountain understanding all

999
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 2: of you know, where there's lift lines or not. That

1000
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: technology piece, I think we've made great strides in this

1001
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: beginning those works and efforts, but we're nowhere near like

1002
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: best in class, and that to me is as important

1003
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: as that either. But the lift piece, I think it veiled.

1004
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 2: Maybe you have an idea of a lifted veilue you

1005
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 2: want to replace, But.

1006
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: No, when I come to Veil, I'm listen what people

1007
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: don't realize about Veil other than a couple of beginner lists.

1008
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: Every single lift is a high speed lift and has

1009
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: been for a while now. Some other resorts are starting

1010
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 1: to catch up. But as I say, when you talk

1011
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,439
Speaker 1: about the lift network at Veil, it's beyond belief, which

1012
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 1: brings me to another issue, which is perception. Okay, they

1013
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: show pictures go viral online of the lines at the

1014
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: gondola on a powder day. Little do people know people

1015
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: are lining up at six thirty in the morning, the

1016
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: lift isn't even open. Then there are pictures in the

1017
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: back bowls chair five before chair seventeen was installed on

1018
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: a powder day people go to ski sun up sundown

1019
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: bowls and it created a line. Not only is there

1020
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: a new lift for someone like me, that's the last

1021
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: place I'm going to go on a powder day because

1022
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: I know more people are going to go there. So

1023
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: this perception a Veil as being an overcrowded, not consumer

1024
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: oriented company. The whipping boy. Is it something that you

1025
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: shrug your shoulders and say there's nothing I can do

1026
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: about it, or can you turn it around? I mean,

1027
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: just at Veil, the chair five at second iteration was

1028
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: a triple for decades. You wanted to upgrade it too

1029
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: high speed. All the locals went berserk. Oh the ski

1030
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: of the powder is going to be skied out. Whatever

1031
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: turn it into high speed. No one ever said another word.

1032
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: So the locals don't like change. Is this something that

1033
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: you just have to shrug your shoulders or is there

1034
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: any way to turn this around?

1035
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 2: I think yeah. So obviously I've been around the industry

1036
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 2: and Veil resorts a long time, and so for me one,

1037
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 2: what you're saying about Veil and about crowding is exactly right,

1038
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,919
Speaker 2: which is I think I tell people all the time

1039
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 2: that we're not We're not trying to avoid, right, some crowds.

1040
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 2: Sometimes that's the reality of having a popular place that

1041
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 2: people want to go to and what it's like on

1042
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: a peak moment. You know, you know, I don't know,

1043
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 2: I've traveled a lot. I know you do tubea like

1044
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 2: anywhere I go between christmin years, Christmas and years is crowded,

1045
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: and so you know, or by the way you go

1046
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 2: to a try and get into like a playoff game

1047
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 2: in any sport, it's crowded. Go to the super Bowl,

1048
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: it's crowded. Try and get across Manhattan at rush hour,

1049
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 2: it's crowded. Like I think, in the end, our job

1050
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 2: is to constantly be making improvements and ensure that while

1051
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: it may make for good social media content for a moment,

1052
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 2: in the end of the day, the guests who were

1053
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: there that day, they understand that the totality of the

1054
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 2: experiences such that they like it now. By the way,

1055
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: of course, like there are people who say our resorts

1056
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: are too expensive and too crowded, Well, that doesn't make

1057
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 2: any sense. There are people who say that our resorts

1058
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 2: are so crowded we've ruined the sport and no one

1059
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 2: goes anymore. That doesn't make any sense either. Obviously, if

1060
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 2: we're too crowded, it's because people are coming. Ninety seven

1061
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 2: percent of our lift lines are less than ten minutes.

1062
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: As that I am sure you remember skiing back in

1063
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 2: the day. Yes, you waited way longer on a lift

1064
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 2: line than you ever do today because the lists were

1065
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: so slow. In terms of the perception thing, I think

1066
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 2: there's a component of our company that by our very existence,

1067
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 2: you know, brings on a lot of this negativity and

1068
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 2: that part of it I do shrug my shoulders down,

1069
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 2: and I don't think that there's really much I can

1070
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 2: do about the fact that people take pleasure in showing

1071
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 2: those photos or trying to make fun of Veil at

1072
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: different times. But there's also things that we do that

1073
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: you know, I think don't go well and where we

1074
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 2: own it and we have responsibility, and I think our

1075
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 2: company can do a much better job of avoiding those

1076
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: moments when those moments happen, rectifying them quickly, and most importantly,

1077
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: communicating better with people. And I think one of the

1078
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: things when I look back, you know, especially of this

1079
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: last year, is that, you know, I think our company

1080
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: has to do a better job of both owning the

1081
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 2: issues through and through, you know, and not making any

1082
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: excuses or bones about it, but then also standing up

1083
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 2: for ourselves about all the great things that we do

1084
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 2: and stand for and represent the amazing people who work

1085
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 2: here and on that I'm not going to be I

1086
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 2: will not take a defensive stance at all. I'm going

1087
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: to lean into that. And that's the message that I've

1088
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 2: been sending as I've been going around our resorts and

1089
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: our communities, is that you know, we like, you know,

1090
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I have a lot

1091
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: of respect for you know, four Seasons, and you know

1092
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 2: and Marriott and Riz Carlton and Mandarin Oriental sixth Sense

1093
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 2: and all the rest of six Senses, all the rest

1094
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 2: of them. They do an amazing job with Geest Service.

1095
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: But of course they're talking about two or three hundred

1096
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 2: rooms at most. They're running an experience that's indoors on

1097
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 2: the ground, you know, climate controlled environment, like we are

1098
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: trying to run an experience for in some cases twenty

1099
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: to thirty thousand sometimes at Whistler people at ten to

1100
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 2: twelve thousand feet in a storm. Yeah, we are not

1101
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 2: going to hit the mark every day all the time.

1102
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 2: The thing we have to do better, though, is we've

1103
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: got to own when we don't hit the mark, rectify

1104
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: it and then yeah, you know, like keep leaning forward.

1105
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: So how come al Tarra You never hear anything negative

1106
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: about al Terra and the Icon past, never, And it's

1107
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: even more extensive.

1108
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 2: I think they First of all, I think there was

1109
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: a lot of negativity about Icon and crowding in the

1110
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 2: first year or two that they that they came out,

1111
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 2: and a lot of chatter about that and a lot

1112
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 2: of chatter about how ski passes were rooting the industry,

1113
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 2: both epic and icon but you know, I think, obviously one,

1114
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 2: we're PubL company and so we are much more transparent.

1115
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 2: Everything that happens with us is out there for everybody

1116
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: to see, and we report regularly. And we are the leader.

1117
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, like that's just the way it goes.

1118
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 2: We are the big fish in this pond. We are

1119
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 2: the leader. We're both the leader in terms of innovation.

1120
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 2: We're the leader in terms of how we set prices

1121
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: and products around the industry. And I understand that that's

1122
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: gonna We're going to take arrows with that. I'm okay

1123
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: with that, but yeah, but it doesn't you know, just

1124
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 2: because I can shrug my shoulders a little bit at

1125
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that we don't have a responsibility to

1126
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 2: constantly improve and do better.

1127
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: What did you learn from Park City? Granted you were

1128
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: not the CEO at the time, What did you learn

1129
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: from Park City ski patrols strike during the Christmas holiday

1130
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: which limited the amount of open terrain on the mountain.

1131
01:00:56,240 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was, yeah, very difficult experiences for guests,

1132
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 2: and therefore, right are really something that we never want

1133
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 2: to see happen again. I'd say, you know, lessons for

1134
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 2: us are one. You know, we've you know, we've had

1135
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 2: a number of unions before Canyons. You know that Ski

1136
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 2: Patrol really started from when we bought the Canyons, and

1137
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 2: they had a Ski Patrol union before we bought them.

1138
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 2: But we've negotiated many contracts right with them with other

1139
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 2: unions that we either inherited or came you know, or

1140
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 2: showed up recently, including three different union contracts after the

1141
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 2: parts of the struct So I think we have a

1142
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 2: long history of being able to figure out a way

1143
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 2: to resolve these things before they ever get to them.

1144
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: So that's one piece. We certainly a lesson that we

1145
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: need to make sure we've exhausted every possibility before we

1146
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 2: get to a strike. I think another piece though, is, yeah,

1147
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 2: we need to be more prepared in a strike, which is,

1148
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 2: you know, I think there are a lot of lessons

1149
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 2: we took for things that we could do differently if

1150
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 2: there was a strike again. And we hope there's never

1151
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: a stroke, but if there was, because of course, like

1152
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 2: we are going to operate through a strike, and I

1153
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of things that I feel much

1154
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 2: more confident about that we would be able to do

1155
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 2: today that we couldn't do that or didn't do that.

1156
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 2: The last thing is, I think, you know, one of

1157
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 2: the things that was a challenge for us during that

1158
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: strike was also our own employees had a hard time

1159
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 2: providing the experience that they wanted to provide during the

1160
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 2: strike because they were under attack right from the union,

1161
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 2: from other people in the community. And I think, you know, certainly,

1162
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 2: in a moment like that again, I personally would you know,

1163
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 2: be on the ground and the whole company would put

1164
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 2: their full support behind anyone and everyone who's trying to

1165
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 2: keep the resort operating in ways that I don't think

1166
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 2: we did the fullest, you know, last go round. So

1167
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 2: I think there's some some quick learnings, But of course

1168
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: the biggest one is we don't want to We want

1169
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 2: our employees on the mountain, and we want our patrol

1170
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: or any other group on the mountain to be to

1171
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 2: be there providing the best work at the cap.

1172
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: What about the insanity of the lift situation in Park

1173
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: City and all the negative you ordered, We're going to

1174
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: install a lift, they stopped at the latest legal cases,

1175
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: you can't do it. You as a company pivoted brilliantly

1176
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 1: and said, well, we'll move that lift to Whistler. But

1177
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: if this is anybody looking at this situation, why would

1178
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: you not want another lift? First of all, park City

1179
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: is a megalopolis. If you talk about parking, most people

1180
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: don't park anyway. And then you have the guy with

1181
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: the town lift now saying he wants to buy I mean,

1182
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: he gets all this press even though it's a non starter.

1183
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: Is this something that is unsolvable? You know, it bleeds

1184
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: into the other issue of you mentioned earlier. They're not

1185
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: building any more new ski areas. There are economics involved,

1186
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: but the conservationists are insane. They stop mineral King of

1187
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: Disney in the sixties, Grand tar our Gee can't even

1188
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: Expand what can you do when there's this huge disconnect

1189
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: between a small segment of the public that doesn't even

1190
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: seem rational.

1191
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I think it's I would say it's

1192
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 2: that was a difficult dynamic and one that you know,

1193
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 2: we certainly feel that the community made the wrong decision

1194
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 2: about that, and we announced shortly after I came back

1195
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 2: that we're going to absolutely get in front of the

1196
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 2: community again, and the council to put those back in.

1197
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 2: There'll be you know, new lefts that we're going to buy.

1198
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 2: But because we do want to see those lists go in.

1199
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 2: We also have a base, you know, a development at

1200
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 2: the base area of that mountain that we think is critical,

1201
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 2: especially now with the Olympics coming. We think we need

1202
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: to that's an eyesore, you know, the area at the bottom,

1203
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 2: and we should be upgrading it. And honestly, for our company,

1204
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 2: we don't really make money doing any real estate development.

1205
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 2: We really bring in other people to do it. We're

1206
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: just trying to get done, don't you know. We're happy

1207
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 2: to add parking, We're happy to add whatever you know

1208
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 2: to make things better. It works for us too, but

1209
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 2: it just has to be something that's doable. Somebody has

1210
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 2: to financially be able to make sense of it. And

1211
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 2: so I think I think there's maybe some shifting going

1212
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 2: on within the community and understanding that even if they

1213
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 2: need to be really sensitive to growth, that yeah, like

1214
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 2: turning down improvements and upgrades is not something that long

1215
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 2: term is going to be good for them, you know.

1216
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, they're in every single community there there

1217
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 2: are contingents of people that are just anti growth no

1218
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 2: matter what and I think, you know, we have a

1219
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 2: pretty good track record, by the way, including within Park City,

1220
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 2: of doing upgrades, putting in improvements, and I think it's

1221
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes we get their setbacks to that, and

1222
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 2: I think that was certainly a moment of a setback

1223
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 2: with the Park City left. But we just have to

1224
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: stay at it, you know, I mean, and it is

1225
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,919
Speaker 2: on us to figure out a way through the communities

1226
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 2: to ensure that we can find some way to align

1227
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 2: with them to keep making upgrades. And I think the

1228
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 2: good news is again I think I could really say

1229
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 2: with every single one of our major resorts, Yeah, we've

1230
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 2: got a pretty good long term track record of getting

1231
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: things done, even if there are momentary settlements.

1232
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: Okay, al Terra started. It is not a completely comparable

1233
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: company in that a lot of the skieries are not

1234
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 1: actually owned by Alterra, but they made a big point

1235
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: that they were going to leave management of the ski

1236
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: areas local and maintain their character. Now, on some level,

1237
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: I'm rolling my eyes by virtue of the fact a

1238
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: lot of these skieries still have old slow lifts, etc.

1239
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: You came in, you moved the operation to the front

1240
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: range from the Vale Valley and concentrated management. Now, just

1241
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 1: putting a little additional point in this. I know people

1242
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: in Vale who own retail businesses, restaurants, and they're not

1243
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: happy with the fact that there is no individual advertising

1244
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 1: unveil to their perception that most of the advertising is

1245
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: for the overall company, the Epic Pass. So a couple

1246
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: of things here to what degree is local management important?

1247
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:22,959
Speaker 1: And secondly you talked about this change, is there going

1248
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: to be more emphasis and what might that look like

1249
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: on the individual resort as opposed to the overall paths?

1250
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so both one, I would say we have local

1251
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 2: management and everything. Of course at every single one of

1252
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 2: our resorts. We have an incredible track record of promoting

1253
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 2: the local management of our resort from within, and we

1254
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 2: move people around between resorts so that the people who

1255
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: are running our resorts are from the ski industry, of

1256
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 2: the ski industry, grew up in the ski industry. And yeah,

1257
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 2: we have huge pride in that. It is true that

1258
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 2: I absolutely believe that if we want to run a

1259
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 2: successful company, that we have to have certain things that

1260
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 2: we do together as a team. Just like every other

1261
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 2: company that does leisure or whatever, they don't have every

1262
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 2: single resort or property running off on their own. But

1263
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 2: that said, yes, you know, people have told me that

1264
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: we've homogenized the resorts, and I think you and I

1265
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 2: both know that that's ridiculous and that if you go

1266
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 2: to Vail, it doesn't feel anything like what it's like

1267
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 2: in Keystone, or if you go to Heavenly or if

1268
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 2: you go to Beaver Creek or Recordage, and those are

1269
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 2: the five resorts we had back in two thousand and two,

1270
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 2: and then they're nothing like. Right, no part of the

1271
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 2: experience is alike. But I think that if you want,

1272
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 2: I mean, at the end of the day for us,

1273
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: you know, and this was true for the icon piece too,

1274
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 2: But think about it from our perspective, we moved right.

1275
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 2: We went from ten or twenty percent of our business

1276
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 2: on a pass to seventy five percent of our business pass.

1277
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 2: I think that has saved our company and providing stability.

1278
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 2: It has saved the industry. And to do that, we

1279
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 2: needed to get all of our resorts at least aligned

1280
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 2: on how we actually drive revenue. But to the point

1281
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 2: I made earlier and you just mentioned, yes, we to

1282
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 2: make that kind of a sea change, fundamental move in

1283
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 2: the industry, we had to put all of our resources

1284
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 2: behind the epic brand, behind the past product. We had

1285
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 2: to make Lift tick. It's absolutely expensive because we wanted

1286
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 2: people to move from Lift tickets to the past. All

1287
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: of those were essential pieces. But now, no, I think

1288
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 2: we understand that we need to do a better job

1289
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 2: promoting each individual brand. You will absolutely see that. You

1290
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 2: will absolutely see that for Vail, we need to activate

1291
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: through events, social media, video content at every resort so

1292
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,759
Speaker 2: that people understand the excitement of each one of those brands.

1293
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 2: And I think absolutely I think we can be criticized

1294
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 2: for not having done enough of that, and I think

1295
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 2: you're going to start to see that change, you know.

1296
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 2: Now that said, I think, you know, for a lot

1297
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 2: of these communities, I think one of the things they

1298
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 2: have to think about is is it that they want

1299
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 2: more people coming or not. Like we get criticized on

1300
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 2: both sides of that with some people. You know, like

1301
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 2: we wanted to put you know, affordable employee housing in

1302
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 2: a fail a lot of people didn't want that. You know,

1303
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 2: We've got a project that we've you know, we want

1304
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 2: to put in a West Lionest and now we're finally

1305
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 2: making progress in that. But for a while, there are

1306
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 2: a lot of people that didn't want to see that,

1307
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 2: So it's attention, you know, and then you get people saying, yeah,

1308
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 2: well you're not driving enough business. So some of this,

1309
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 2: I would say, is we just have to realize as

1310
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 2: part for the course, like you're going to get some

1311
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 2: of this feedback, it's going to sometimes seem contradictory, and

1312
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 2: it's our job and my job to navigate through all

1313
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 2: of that. One of the things I said when I

1314
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 2: came back was that it's my job to find ways

1315
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 2: to align all of our stakeholders right, our our shareholders,

1316
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 2: our employees, our community members, and our guests. Like that's

1317
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 2: my job, Like how do I navigate through all of

1318
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 2: that and thread that needle? And it is a you know,

1319
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 2: you're not always going to get it right, but I

1320
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 2: think we have to constantly be thinking about how we

1321
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 2: do that because I think that's how we have had

1322
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:06,600
Speaker 2: long term success.

1323
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,679
Speaker 1: Just going back to one of your points about people

1324
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,799
Speaker 1: saying the resources are the same, they couldn't be more different.

1325
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,480
Speaker 1: The only thing that's similar are the bones of the websites,

1326
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 1: which any corporation would say, hey, yeah, that's a way

1327
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: to do it. Where are you know? It is a

1328
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:29,839
Speaker 1: public company. Where are the growth opportunities for Veiled Resources?

1329
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we can absolutely grow visits. So I

1330
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 2: feel I think that we have not done and especially

1331
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 2: compared to where we've been the last couple of years,

1332
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 2: I think there's a real opportunity for us to grow visits.

1333
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: That's not going to be ten and twenty percent growth,

1334
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 2: that's not the way the industry works. But getting back

1335
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,719
Speaker 2: to low single digit growth I think is definitely possible.

1336
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 2: I think then getting price growth right above inflation also

1337
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 2: very doable. And then really the big opportunities and the

1338
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,919
Speaker 2: big swing points for us are going to be around

1339
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 2: you know, what we call kind of antilly revenue, but

1340
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 2: is you know, ski school, rentals, and food. And I

1341
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 2: think we have big opportunities in all three, particularly ski

1342
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 2: school and rentals to really drive outsize growth. And we

1343
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,679
Speaker 2: haven't seen, you know, in the industry, we haven't seen

1344
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 2: on our company and haven't seen in the industry before.

1345
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 2: And then finally, I do think there are opportunities for

1346
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 2: us to grow in Europe and for us to grow

1347
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,879
Speaker 2: in in Asia. Not something that's going to happen overnight,

1348
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: but this is a global industry and a lot of

1349
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,440
Speaker 2: the change that we've seen that has been so successful

1350
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 2: in North America, I think is still is making its

1351
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 2: way around the world, but it's still kind of slow

1352
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 2: to get there.

1353
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 1: Well, in terms of acquisition, even in Europe, there was

1354
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,759
Speaker 1: a local community that bought a ski area, so wouldn't

1355
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: be purchased by one of the huge companies. What are

1356
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 1: the opportunities and what are the strategies without revealing any

1357
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 1: special sauce, yeah, I think.

1358
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 2: It's patient and the special sauce is patience. You know.

1359
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 2: I think people tend to look at what we did

1360
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 2: in North America in Australia and say, well, oh, it's

1361
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 2: so obvious that you could do all of that. But

1362
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 2: you know, as you probably remember, certainly back in two

1363
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 2: thousand and five, in two thousand and four, yeah, nobody

1364
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 2: thought there was any opportunity to acquire resorts in North America,

1365
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 2: or even if you did, why would make any sense?

1366
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm not you know, I know that it

1367
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 2: takes time. I think in a way, right, I think

1368
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 2: you're going to have some resorts in Europe there that

1369
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 2: may make the same decision that the community and locks made,

1370
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 2: and I think that's fine. But there's going to be

1371
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 2: other resorts and other owners, right that meg see that.

1372
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 2: Hey wait a minute, as we think about the next

1373
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 2: five to ten years, maybe it makes sense to align,

1374
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 2: you know, more strongly with one of these bigger players.

1375
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 2: And you know, so when I look out five or

1376
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 2: ten years, I'm quite confident we'll see some of those

1377
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 2: opportunities come through.

1378
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: What would be the benefit to one of those large

1379
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: resource and there are many Rubia balveasir goes on to

1380
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 1: joining part of an overall company, Well.

1381
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 2: I think you know a couple. But one is, you know,

1382
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 2: the ski industry, and I think even more so in Europe,

1383
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 2: right really has struggles with weather. Right, they are at

1384
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 2: lower elevation than we are, and so you know, I

1385
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 2: think as you think out over over time, I think

1386
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 2: there's some real benefit to that. The other thing is

1387
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 2: a lot of these lift companies, and they are lift companies,

1388
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 2: as you know in Europe. So most of these lift

1389
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 2: companies don't have city school, don't have food, don't have rentals,

1390
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 2: don't have retail, don't have logic. So they those lift

1391
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:41,640
Speaker 2: companies can be exposed, right, I mean, because those are

1392
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 2: pretty profitable areas of the business. And so I think

1393
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 2: being part of a larger company, with the more consistent

1394
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 2: capital that we can put in, the more consistent employees

1395
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 2: that we can put in. I think those are opportunities

1396
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 2: long term. I also think from a marketing perspective, there's

1397
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 2: an opportunity for us to ultimately have a pass product

1398
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 2: that is that it's more of a European based pass

1399
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 2: product that can provide access to both Europe and North

1400
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,639
Speaker 2: America and really be a compelling product for like Germany

1401
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 2: and the UK, which kind of do both. You know,

1402
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, there's not a lot of people in

1403
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 2: France that are going to have a common ski in

1404
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:20,759
Speaker 2: the US. That's true with Austria, that's doue with Italy,

1405
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 2: that's true with Switzerland. But in the UK and Germany,

1406
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 2: I think we have real opportunities.

1407
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: So you have past partners. These are companies that you

1408
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 1: do not own, but people who own Epic passes can

1409
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: ski there. Just use one example, tell your ride, full

1410
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,639
Speaker 1: Epic pass owner get seven days to tell your ride.

1411
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 1: How did the economics work on that? How is the

1412
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: money split up?

1413
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1414
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 2: I can't Those are confidential, so I can't really you know,

1415
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 2: go into that, but obviously, yeah, there's there's an economic

1416
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 2: arrangement that that we think benefits us in terms of

1417
01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 2: you know, tell You Ride is a good example. I

1418
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 2: think we see tell You Ride is a very unique brand,

1419
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 2: and the number of brands that are not owned by

1420
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 2: al Terra or US, yeah, they're not that many as

1421
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 2: you know, right that are that we really have could

1422
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:14,640
Speaker 2: move the needle and have the unique power that a

1423
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 2: teal You Ride has. It's not the only one, but uh.

1424
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,599
Speaker 2: And so they see a benefit I think in getting

1425
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 2: obviously revenue from us that they feel is more consistent

1426
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 2: and stable, and we think that, you know, that's that

1427
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 2: works out great for both of us. Now, of course,

1428
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 2: it's true that a resort like Tell You Ride as

1429
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 2: a resort we would own and in our minds, like

1430
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 2: you know, we take we like to create networks where

1431
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:40,680
Speaker 2: we would be comfortable owning any of the resorts in

1432
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,639
Speaker 2: our network, which is maybe a little different than Alterra.

1433
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 2: But the reason for that is, yeah, we don't. We don't.

1434
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 2: We want to make sure the experience of that resort

1435
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 2: is one that you know, we can get behind and

1436
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 2: it's consistent. We also want to make sure that, yeah,

1437
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 2: this is something that is for the long term we

1438
01:16:57,160 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 2: don't really want to get into the game of adding

1439
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:02,280
Speaker 2: and subtracting partners over time, which sometimes can happen right

1440
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,600
Speaker 2: when you create a network. So in our minds we

1441
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 2: do mean more owner operated as a as an MO,

1442
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 2: but for key resorts, like I tell you right now,

1443
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 2: we absolutely will We'll welcome them in as a partner.

1444
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:17,639
Speaker 1: Is that a pre use payment like if I ski

1445
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 1: until you ride, they'll pays them a certain amount or

1446
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: is it a different structure?

1447
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're all the agreements are confidential, so I can't

1448
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 2: get into the specifics of it, but but I can't

1449
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 2: say yeah, it's yeah. But of course there's an economic

1450
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 2: you know, trade that we're making with them, where obviously

1451
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:42,600
Speaker 2: they're economically benefiting from that and we you know, in

1452
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 2: some way right that we're paying them, and then obviously

1453
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:47,719
Speaker 2: we feel we're benefiting by getting more people on the path.

1454
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: Do you think that these partners do at the they'll

1455
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 1: own so many ski areas, is it worth it to

1456
01:17:55,680 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 1: give up some of the revenue to independent past partners? Yeah?

1457
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 2: I think for us, I can't speak for al tara

1458
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 2: an Icon, but for us, we feel like we are

1459
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 2: very selective with how we put on partners, and we're willing,

1460
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:13,639
Speaker 2: you know, to walk away if we don't think that

1461
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 2: that partner really adds as much. And the truth is,

1462
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 2: you know, in the end of the day, like, yeah,

1463
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 2: without any partners, we do feel like our network in

1464
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 2: North America is incredible and the resorts we own, which

1465
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people lose sight of. You know, people

1466
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 2: think that a Whistler and a Veil and a Breckenridge

1467
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 2: and a park City, you know, are similar to you know,

1468
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 2: a Jackson, you know, or even an Assmen and they're not.

1469
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:40,719
Speaker 2: I mean, they are. It's not saying that there always

1470
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 2: are an amazing resource. They are, but in terms of size,

1471
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:47,560
Speaker 2: in terms of popularity, no, they're they're not. They're not equivalent.

1472
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 2: And so for us, yeah, we understand that we've got

1473
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:53,600
Speaker 2: the resorts that you know, are really critical to the

1474
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,799
Speaker 2: overall ski market, and so at that point we're really

1475
01:18:56,840 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 2: selective on just picking like who's going to add really

1476
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 2: value outside of that, and we do think Tell You

1477
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:05,720
Speaker 2: Ride is one of those resources that does that for us.

1478
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 1: Okay, the Icon Pass is more expensive than the Epic Pass.

1479
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: In addition, after covid Epic lowered the price, it has

1480
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 1: since been raised, but we've also had inflation. How do

1481
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: you calculate the price and is there a fear that

1482
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 1: there's not that much headroom? You can't raise it too

1483
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: much without turning people off.

1484
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't. You know, in our minds, we keep

1485
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 2: an eye on what Icon is doing on their pricing,

1486
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 2: but we are pricing our passes based on what we

1487
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 2: think is right in our own system between lift tickets

1488
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 2: and passes. And you know, in our minds we've done

1489
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 2: a lot of work on why we've come out with

1490
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 2: the pricing that we have. We are actually going to

1491
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 2: do even more work on that, you know, as in

1492
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 2: the up coming years there's new tools available with AI

1493
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,600
Speaker 2: machine learning that allow us to take a complexity of

1494
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:08,839
Speaker 2: a lot of this and make sure that we've optimized everything.

1495
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:11,280
Speaker 2: And I think when you look at Icon in the

1496
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 2: end of the day, they do a lot of discounting,

1497
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 2: you know that we don't do like renewal discounts and

1498
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 2: you know, bount money discounts and things like that, where

1499
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 2: it's kind of like we have a little bit cleaner,

1500
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 2: more consistent approach right to how we price, and I

1501
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 2: think others within the industry sometimes have a little bit more. Oh,

1502
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 2: here's the lead price, but then we have all these

1503
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,800
Speaker 2: you know, sales on the side. We don't tend to

1504
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 2: do that. But yeah, for us, we see ourselves as

1505
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 2: the price leader, like and setting the market for both

1506
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,599
Speaker 2: price and product. And again we do keep an eye

1507
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 2: on what everybody else is doing, but a lot of

1508
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 2: what we do is based on the analysis that we're

1509
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 2: seeing in our own business.

1510
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: What about the concept of the so called black pass.

1511
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 1: They have had it at Snowbird, they had a park

1512
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,679
Speaker 1: City before you owned it. They have it a copper which,

1513
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 1: for an additional fee, you do not have to wait

1514
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 1: in line or in a much much shorter line. What

1515
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: is Veil Resorts philosophy relative to.

1516
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, we don't. That's not something that that we

1517
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 2: that we have been a fan of. You know, in

1518
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:28,600
Speaker 2: the end of the day, for us, we feel like,

1519
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 2: you know that cutting the line is really reserved for

1520
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 2: ski school, and in our minds that's because ski school

1521
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:40,599
Speaker 2: is you know, they are providing lessons to people and

1522
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 2: so ultimately that's something that we think, uh, you know,

1523
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 2: that's a part of that experience that we give. And

1524
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:50,680
Speaker 2: if there are people who just want to use it

1525
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 2: as a line cutting option. That's fine. We we obviously

1526
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 2: understand that and support that as well. Some people say, well,

1527
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: but you know, it's so expensive. It could be you know,

1528
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:02,560
Speaker 2: at Veil at peak time, a private lesson could be

1529
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred dollars or whatever. But if you get a

1530
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 2: group of four or five people together on a per

1531
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,719
Speaker 2: day basis to you know, to skip all the lists,

1532
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 2: you know that they may think that's a reasonable option.

1533
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:16,719
Speaker 2: That is kind of our black path, and we feel

1534
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:20,719
Speaker 2: like we'd rather in our minds that if we've opened

1535
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:24,160
Speaker 2: up a black path, we absolutely withoud decountabalization from our

1536
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 2: ski school and I think it would put pressure on

1537
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,240
Speaker 2: that and we maybe which is different than some of

1538
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 2: these other resorts, but we're trying to drive as much

1539
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 2: business into our ski school and with our instructors as

1540
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 2: we possibly can. It's a good business for us, and

1541
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 2: we think that creates a healthy dynamic for the instructors.

1542
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 1: Okay, Epic Gear, is this really a business? You talked

1543
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 1: about the pain points and going forward the Epic Gear.

1544
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 1: I walk past the Epic Gear area every day when

1545
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:57,679
Speaker 1: I go to go skiing, and it's always two guys

1546
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 1: who look like stoners who have their elbows on the

1547
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 1: counter and there's almost no one there. And at the

1548
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 1: end of the day, when people have to put their

1549
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 1: skis on the rack, there's almost no one there. I

1550
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 1: know that there is a delivery component. In addition, is

1551
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 1: this a good idea that the public is really going

1552
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 1: to accept? You know, there are a lot of good

1553
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 1: ideas that the public doesn't go. And to what degree

1554
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:27,919
Speaker 1: has it it's already been in operation, to what degree

1555
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:29,840
Speaker 1: is it a business already?

1556
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 2: So what I would say is this, I think the

1557
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 2: core part of my epic gear. I mean, we kind

1558
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 2: of we were testing a lot of things last year

1559
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 2: in terms of like all the different components of what

1560
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 2: an elevated experience on my epic year could look like.

1561
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 2: But I would say that the core part it and

1562
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 2: I think you can see it in the name itself.

1563
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 2: Mypic gear is about you being able to pick the

1564
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 2: gear that you want and either having that gear available

1565
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 2: all season long, right if that's what you want, or

1566
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 2: you can pick close in if you don't want to

1567
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 2: tell us what gear you want all season long, but

1568
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 2: you'll still be able to pick from our inventory of

1569
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:11,679
Speaker 2: the best gear and the best boots. The Boa Boots

1570
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 2: as we talked about earlier. In our minds, that's that

1571
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 2: is a sea change concept. We think it has huge

1572
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 2: opportunity and could be a very big business in the

1573
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 2: industry because ultimately, right now, the reason why people own

1574
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 2: gear most people is because they don't really want to

1575
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 2: own gear, but they own it because they want to

1576
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 2: make sure when they get to the mountain that they've

1577
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 2: got the boot and the ski that they want. The

1578
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:37,639
Speaker 2: reason why people when people rent gear, they don't own

1579
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 2: it obviously, but then most people are not happy necessarily

1580
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:43,400
Speaker 2: with all the choices and options. A lot of people

1581
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 2: feel like they're not getting the best gear, or if

1582
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:47,599
Speaker 2: they rent, they're not getting the same thing the next

1583
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 2: time they go back. Maybe they had a boot or

1584
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 2: they had a ski that they really like, but now

1585
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:52,840
Speaker 2: you don't know that you're going to get the same

1586
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:55,479
Speaker 2: thing next time. So people are kind of starting new

1587
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 2: every time they go and rent. In our mind, that

1588
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 2: is an antiquated approach to how people should use gear,

1589
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 2: and so I do see this as a big transformational event,

1590
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 2: but it's not easy to do. You could just imagine

1591
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 2: all the logistics and the technology that's required to make

1592
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 2: something like that successful. So we're going to You know,

1593
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 2: this is not something that's an overnight It's not like

1594
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 2: just creating a little app, you know, on your phone.

1595
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:21,280
Speaker 2: It's a lot that goes into it. But ultimately, I

1596
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 2: think it could be a real game Jinger.

1597
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:27,240
Speaker 1: And to what degree do you feel responsibility for the

1598
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:32,680
Speaker 1: health of the manufacturers? Ski sales? Companies that make skeys

1599
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,480
Speaker 1: have gone way down. A lot of them are conglomerates

1600
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: where they have other revenue streams. If theyil is purchasing equipment,

1601
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: inherently it's a discount. Volume players get a discount, and

1602
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 1: certainly there are special rental packages as someone is wanting

1603
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: something of lesser quality. But if this my epic gear

1604
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: is successful, it's going to affect the overall sales of

1605
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:58,640
Speaker 1: these companies.

1606
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, I'd say it's a shift, right,

1607
01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 2: So exactly how this plays out, I don't know, and

1608
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 2: over what time period I do. It does matter to

1609
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,880
Speaker 2: me that these companies are healthy. I would say that

1610
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 2: we also know that, you know, the retail business on

1611
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 2: skis and boots is also challenged, right beyond certainly the

1612
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 2: brick and mortar retail business is a challenging business. We're

1613
01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 2: obviously a big player in and that's a challenging business

1614
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 2: given online dynamics. But of course, like for online, it's

1615
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 2: not the same experience, right, people don't get to touch

1616
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:37,680
Speaker 2: and feel the product. So I think my concern when

1617
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,839
Speaker 2: I look out is like, if we're seeing struggling retail

1618
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 2: dynamics for hard goods, what will that mean in the

1619
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,599
Speaker 2: long run if people can't touch and feel this product.

1620
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 2: I think it could actually reduce the owner cycle of

1621
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,759
Speaker 2: replacement no matter what. And so in our minds like, actually,

1622
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 2: this could be an opportunity where people get to touch

1623
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 2: and feel without making this huge commitment the best gear

1624
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,559
Speaker 2: that's out there, right, And I actually think it'll bring

1625
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 2: them closer and more passionate about the gear, which of

1626
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 2: course means that when we're going to buy the new

1627
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 2: gear and new options and you know, so it's yes,

1628
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 2: just like the right, it's like everything like the music, right,

1629
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 2: as you know, Well, it's not that the business goes away,

1630
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:20,800
Speaker 2: it's just in my shift, and I think that's something

1631
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 2: we want to try and be on the front end.

1632
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, how often do you

1633
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 1: go skiing?

1634
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:30,600
Speaker 2: Well, I would say I don't know. What would I

1635
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 2: say if I had to guess for this year, I'm

1636
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 2: going to say twenty to thirty days, you know, something

1637
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:38,799
Speaker 2: in that in that range, i'd say my own skiing

1638
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 2: tracks kind of most most people, which is, you know,

1639
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 2: I was skiing forty to fifty days a year when

1640
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 2: my kids were five to you know, nineteen, and once

1641
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:51,600
Speaker 2: my kids went off to college and now live on

1642
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 2: the East Coast. Yeah, it's less, you know, and but yeah,

1643
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 2: I mean so by the way, that's a recreation, recreational days.

1644
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 2: I spent a bunch of time at our resorts or

1645
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 2: getting on the hill to you know, do the work

1646
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 2: part of it's differently, but yeah, I'm you know, this

1647
01:28:08,439 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 2: is something yeah, I've loved since I was a kid.

1648
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:16,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so other than the twenty thirty days, how many

1649
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 1: days are you on the hill when it's essentially air

1650
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 1: quodes work?

1651
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:25,439
Speaker 2: Oh I don't know either, Yeah, on the hill. And

1652
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 2: I could be on the hill, you know, in the

1653
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 2: non skiing season too, like and shoes or boots, but yeah,

1654
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 2: you know, I would probably be I'll probably be in

1655
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:38,880
Speaker 2: ski resorts. Yeah, forty days, you know, at least forty

1656
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 2: fifty days something like that.

1657
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:44,800
Speaker 1: So if you are deciding to go skiing. Where do

1658
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 1: you go?

1659
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 2: Well, as you know, Bob, I have I have a

1660
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:54,479
Speaker 2: house in Veil, and you know, I love all of

1661
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:58,880
Speaker 2: our resorts of course, like all my kids, but no,

1662
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 2: I have a special connection with Bail that goes goes

1663
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:06,240
Speaker 2: back aways and obviously it's where you know, I spent teaching,

1664
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:08,960
Speaker 2: you know, and learning to ski with my kids them

1665
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 2: learning to ski, and then meet skiing with them and

1666
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 2: our family up there for countless holidays with you know,

1667
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 2: my extended family or their friends. So like that. Yeah,

1668
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:23,120
Speaker 2: it's a very very special place for me. But yeah,

1669
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 2: we've I've also gone with my kids, you know, and

1670
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 2: my family and friends right to ski Whistler, which is

1671
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 2: an incredible experience in ski Peak six at Breckenridge, or

1672
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 2: off the Imperial Express or right Stone Creek, Shoots and

1673
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:40,760
Speaker 2: Beaver Creek, yeah, or the out back of Keystone or

1674
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 2: nine to ninety at Park City. Plus I'm going to

1675
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 2: ski other places like Snowbird and Deer Valley and Jackson

1676
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:53,639
Speaker 2: and all kinds of different places in Europe, Japan. So yeah,

1677
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:55,879
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the great things. And honestly,

1678
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:58,160
Speaker 2: you know what I'm most passionate about and why I

1679
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 2: love the sport. It's like a every day is different,

1680
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 2: the weather is different, the experience is different. But yeah,

1681
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 2: I get to be outdoors doing something I love. And yeah,

1682
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:14,280
Speaker 2: having that be my job as well, that's kind of cool.

1683
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 1: So what's your strategy at fail you're starting? Where do

1684
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 1: you go?

1685
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 2: Oh? For me, it depends on the day, I'd say, right,

1686
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 2: it could be if it's a if it's a powder day, yeah,

1687
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 2: I'm going up the gondola, you know, and then uh yeah,

1688
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,880
Speaker 2: over to Chair fourteen or down five and up seven

1689
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 2: and up nine and yeah, back to Blue Sky. So

1690
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:43,559
Speaker 2: I mean, if I can get you know, if I'm up,

1691
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 2: if I'm if I'm out there early enough, no, then

1692
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 2: I'm skiing like Forever and Wow and Rickey Thridge, you know.

1693
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 2: But then I'll go over maybe ski Genghis, right, you know,

1694
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:55,519
Speaker 2: So then I'm making my you know, all the way over.

1695
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 2: So maybe I'm then skiing the slot and I'm skiing

1696
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:00,680
Speaker 2: Genghis and then I'm going back to Blue Sky and

1697
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:05,760
Speaker 2: going you know over to our earls and skiing CJ's

1698
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 2: and you know, and and it's kind of taking a

1699
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:12,759
Speaker 2: couple of laps there then going back across and skiing

1700
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 2: lovers Leap and then down to Pete's maybe doing one

1701
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 2: run on resolution or two runs on resolution, you know,

1702
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 2: then lunch, then back and then yeah, then I'll kind

1703
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 2: of finish up my day skiing. You know, it's still good.

1704
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 2: Then I'll be back skiing. Yeah, like all the other

1705
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 2: you know. Now I'm skiing Opre Fou, I'm skiing you know,

1706
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:43,240
Speaker 2: maybe WFO or you know. Then I'm going into the

1707
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:49,240
Speaker 2: all the outer locations or into Teacup.

1708
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 1: Just to drill a little bit. So if you're not

1709
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 1: out early, you will take the gondola to four and

1710
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 1: then take the road all the way to fourteen and

1711
01:31:57,840 --> 01:31:58,639
Speaker 1: then go to the back.

1712
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:00,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1713
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:03,760
Speaker 2: Probably, Well, I don't know, or I'm yes, I would

1714
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:06,760
Speaker 2: do that, or I would take I might even go

1715
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 2: all the way over to depending on the day, go

1716
01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 2: over to the bottom of six, take six up and

1717
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,599
Speaker 2: then go from six the top of six to to ten,

1718
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 2: ten to fourteen, fourteen up, or I might go down

1719
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:24,280
Speaker 2: to Yeah, take the take take the gondola up four up, down,

1720
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:27,479
Speaker 2: you know, to the bottom, and then maybe take slot

1721
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 2: and then go up nine and then go into either

1722
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 2: Teacup or Genghis. You know whatever, and then get from there.

1723
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 2: Some of this also depends on like how good the

1724
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:42,280
Speaker 2: snow is in all the gullies, so how many cat

1725
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:44,360
Speaker 2: tracks are you taking to get back or can you

1726
01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 2: actually ski through the gullies to get to Yeah, the

1727
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 2: base of the blue cut.

1728
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:51,559
Speaker 1: Well that's what you know. People don't realize they talk

1729
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 1: about the lines. I mean, if I have to start

1730
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:56,639
Speaker 1: at the gondola, if there's a big line at three

1731
01:32:56,640 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 1: and four, I just take the road to ten. And

1732
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 1: what people don't know. You know, you can ski down

1733
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:05,639
Speaker 1: half of the front side and take the road over

1734
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,759
Speaker 1: to six. Certainly once you get like ten, ten thirty,

1735
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:12,000
Speaker 1: there's no line at six, and there's never been a

1736
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 1: line at ten. I don't know if I want to

1737
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:17,559
Speaker 1: give away all my secrets. But by the same token,

1738
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 1: people are bitching about the lines. I don't get it.

1739
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 2: I agree, well, you and I have the great fortune

1740
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 2: of being able to do this and recreate in these

1741
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 2: amazing places, and yeah, it's awesome and I feel super lucky.

1742
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:33,559
Speaker 2: I do.

1743
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:36,320
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I just want to leave it. People

1744
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:42,679
Speaker 1: don't understand the allure of skiing. You referenced it earlier. Yes,

1745
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: you are outside b certainly if you're in the West.

1746
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:48,880
Speaker 1: Ten's not to be that cool. With the technical improvements

1747
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:51,600
Speaker 1: of the equipment or such that. It's not like the

1748
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 1: old days, not like the old Duelfold days underwhere you

1749
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,759
Speaker 1: know they have much better runderwear. There's a thrill in skiing.

1750
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:01,679
Speaker 1: It's not like tennis. You don't have to be good

1751
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:04,799
Speaker 1: to enjoy it. As long as you're at the limit

1752
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:07,559
Speaker 1: of your ability. You could be on the beginner slope

1753
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: and be thrilled. And unlike water skiing or so many

1754
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 1: other sports, the hill is different. The hill changes certainly

1755
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,360
Speaker 1: if you go to another you know, people always ask

1756
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:22,160
Speaker 1: why I'm such a ski fanatic, and usually it's matter

1757
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:25,879
Speaker 1: have you ever done it? If you do not, everyone's

1758
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:29,639
Speaker 1: gonna love it, okay, But there's a certain magic even

1759
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:32,960
Speaker 1: go on, you know, social media. There's a woman you

1760
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 1: know who learned how to ski in her twenties who

1761
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,720
Speaker 1: lives in breck skis one hundred days a year. You

1762
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: just get the bug.

1763
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:39,760
Speaker 2: You know.

1764
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 1: There's the issue of ski bums now that people come

1765
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 1: from Australia and South America. But I'll leave my rap

1766
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 1: at that. It's been a great pleasure talking you. Let's

1767
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 1: hope for a good snow season. Your ski areas are

1768
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 1: starting to open. Oh one final question. Do you own

1769
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 1: your equipment or do you use what's in Epic gear?

1770
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:05,839
Speaker 2: Both? So, I own equipment, but as you can well imagine,

1771
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:09,400
Speaker 2: like I own a son, so many pairs of everything

1772
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:12,719
Speaker 2: that you know, I tend not to throw them away.

1773
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 2: But I've also used my Epic gear, so I used both.

1774
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:15,360
Speaker 1: Well.

1775
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 2: It was awesome, Bob. I really appreciate you taking the

1776
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:20,600
Speaker 2: time to have this conversation. You and I have communicated

1777
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 2: going all the way back, and so yeah, an awesome,

1778
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 2: awesome opportunity for me to talk to you and all

1779
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:30,680
Speaker 2: your listeners, and I hope to see you up on

1780
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:31,280
Speaker 2: the hill of Vail.

1781
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 1: Just one correction, because I feel guilty. When the Epic

1782
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:40,760
Speaker 1: Pass was launched it was still the high speed chair

1783
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:45,880
Speaker 1: because the gondola was installed in twenty twelve, and I

1784
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:48,479
Speaker 1: just want to go one step further. You know, listen,

1785
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:51,720
Speaker 1: I know a lot of Veil haters, et cetera. But

1786
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 1: the infrastructure upgrades, you know what happened with north Woods

1787
01:35:56,320 --> 01:36:00,160
Speaker 1: and now even game creaking the gondola. It's, as I say,

1788
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:03,120
Speaker 1: my only complaint with Vail would be wow. I wish

1789
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 1: there could be more. You know, h territory open with

1790
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:08,640
Speaker 1: the rules looks the aside of rules. I know how

1791
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:12,680
Speaker 1: difficult that is in any of them. I'm gonna leave

1792
01:36:12,720 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 1: it there, Rob, thanks so much for taking this time

1793
01:36:15,920 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 1: with my audience. Till next time. This is Bob left

1794
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 1: six