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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: So, in addition to Marco Rubio, there were some noteworthy

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Speaker 2: comments in Munich from twenty twenty eight Democratic contenders.

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Speaker 4: The one who got the most.

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Speaker 2: Attention probably was Alexander Accassio Cortez. Let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: take a listen to a bit of what she.

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Speaker 4: Had to say.

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Speaker 5: First and foremost, I think we need to revisit our

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Speaker 5: commitments to international aid, not just USAID, but the dozens

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Speaker 5: of global compacts that this Secretary of State and President

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Speaker 5: Trump have withdrawn from. They are looking to withdraw the

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Speaker 5: United States from the entire world, so that we can

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Speaker 5: turn into an age of authoritarianisms, of authoritarians that can

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Speaker 5: carve out the world where Donald Trump can command the

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Speaker 5: Western hemisphere and Latin America as his personal sandbox, where

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Speaker 5: Putin can saber rattle around Europe and try to bully

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Speaker 5: around our own allies there, and for essentially authoritarians to

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Speaker 5: have their own geographic domains. And it actually is the

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Speaker 5: trans Pacific Partnership. It is our global alliances that can

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Speaker 5: be a hard stop against authoritarian consolidation of power, particularly

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Speaker 5: in the installation of regional puppet governments in a so

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Speaker 5: called rules based order, the rules for whom, because for

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Speaker 5: all too long the rules only applied to the United States, Europe,

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Speaker 5: its allies, and we would carve out exceptions for the

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Speaker 5: global South. And I think that when you have a

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Speaker 5: rules based order where you carve out exceptions to our values,

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Speaker 5: exceptions to our rules, eventually the exceptions become the rules.

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Speaker 5: And I think that to your original point, over the

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Speaker 5: last five years, we've seen such a breaking and such

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Speaker 5: a fraying of these alleged Western values that people wonder

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Speaker 5: if it ever existed in the first place.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know, if.

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Speaker 5: It's necessarily that we were in a post if we

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Speaker 5: are in a post rules based order, I think it's

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Speaker 5: possible that we were in a pre rules based order,

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Speaker 5: and we have an opportunity to explore what a world

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Speaker 5: would look like if we upheld democracy, human rights, trade

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Speaker 5: that actually centers working class people instead of accruing overwhelmingly

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Speaker 5: the benefits of trade to the wealthiest. But if we

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Speaker 5: reoriented a new era that could actually help people and

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Speaker 5: show how foreign policy and healthy foreign policy can show

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Speaker 5: up and help them in their lives.

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Speaker 4: So there's a lot to unpack there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, on the content, you know,

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Speaker 2: what she lays out there is basically what she says

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Speaker 2: trans specific partnership, when of course the old trade deals

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Speaker 2: she clarified on Twitter she meant to say transatlantic alliances.

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Speaker 2: But what she's describing there is effectively like a neoconomy

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Speaker 2: of like, we need to spread democracy around the world,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to use our strength and our partnerships

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Speaker 2: in this alliance to make sure that you know, we're

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Speaker 2: standing up to authoritarians all over the world. And so,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't agree with that foreign policy direction.

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Speaker 2: I'm largely ideologically aligned with AOC on many domestic policy issues.

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Speaker 2: But this is straight out of like standard Democratic Party

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Speaker 2: establishment blob playbook. So there's that, there's the substance of

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Speaker 2: it that I object to. And then I watched I

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Speaker 2: watched her entire commentary here. I watched all the you know,

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Speaker 2: the panels she did, et cetera. And I will just say,

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Speaker 2: on a presentation from a presentation perspective, she's so clearly

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Speaker 2: very uncomfortable, you know what happened here. Her staff is like,

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Speaker 2: if you want to be in position to run for president,

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Speaker 2: you need to do this. You need to build out

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Speaker 2: like your foreign policy chops. So we're going to send

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Speaker 2: you to this conference. And it did not go well.

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Speaker 2: It has the feel to me of someone who you know,

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Speaker 2: doesn't hasn't fully fleshed out their own worldview. So they've

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Speaker 2: received briefings, they've got, you know, a binder of prep materials,

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Speaker 2: and they're trying to memorize the notes of what that said,

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Speaker 2: versus being nimble enough in their ideology to respond to

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Speaker 2: the questions that are being asked. And that's how you

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Speaker 2: make a slip up, Like I don't want to read

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Speaker 2: too much into it. That's how you make up a

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Speaker 2: slip up, make a slip up like saying transpecific partnership

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Speaker 2: rather than transatlantic alliance, because rather than articulating your worldview,

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Speaker 2: you're trying to remember what you memorized.

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Speaker 4: So she was very shaky.

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Speaker 2: She was totally out of her element and very uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: up there the whole time.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll give you the TPP line wouldn't matter if

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Speaker 3: it wasn't clearly indicative of a bigger problem. So let

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Speaker 3: me read this exchange on Taiwan. Question about the United

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Speaker 3: stations ten troops to defend Taiwan. AOC roughly stalled for

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Speaker 3: twenty seconds before delivering this response. I think that this

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Speaker 3: is such a you know, I think that this is

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Speaker 3: a this is of course, a very long standing policy

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Speaker 3: policy of the United States. What are we doing here?

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Speaker 3: It's like I don't want to say yes, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to say no. Now listen, Donald Trump also got

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Speaker 3: elected by being a bumbling moron. All right, so like

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Speaker 3: on foreign policy, so let's say where the bar is? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this was my greatest fear about Trump is that he

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Speaker 3: would make popular again the diminishing look there was I

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Speaker 3: think a real reckoning after Biden and a lot of

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Speaker 3: the support for Ukraine where people saw that the wool

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Speaker 3: had been pulled from in front of their eyes. Because

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Speaker 3: at first everyone's like, oh, I'll pay more gas to

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Speaker 3: free Ukraine. After two years you're like, well, we're one

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Speaker 3: hundred billion into this thing, My gas prices are high.

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Speaker 3: The Eastern Dune, Boss, isn't all that important to me?

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Speaker 3: Should we really be the world's policeman? Well, what are

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Speaker 3: the circumstances which led to the invasion of Ukraine? Do

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Speaker 3: we really have an interest in spreading democracy around the world?

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Speaker 3: What's our track record on spreading democracy around the world.

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Speaker 3: Trump being so ham handed, in my opinion, has actually

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Speaker 3: made this type of politics more popular than ever before,

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Speaker 3: purely by being oppositional. But what true leftists have always

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Speaker 3: understood is that there is an actual critique of NATO

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Speaker 3: and all of this, which in some cases is aligned

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Speaker 3: with Trump. Now, that doesn't mean you buy into it wholesale.

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Speaker 3: You have much more of an internationalist humanitarian vision. See

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Speaker 3: many of our debates on Gaza now, for example, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: where can be differences, But that doesn't mean that the

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Speaker 3: critique specifically around restraint and the acknowledgment of US power

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Speaker 3: being over were extended. Bad for them, bad for us,

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Speaker 3: bad for everybody involved. She has clearly just not thought

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Speaker 3: about it very much. And this is the biggest danger

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Speaker 3: for foreign policy. And I've seen this time and time again.

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Speaker 3: You know George W. Bush, for example, he was a

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Speaker 3: lot like this, And I mean this sounds crazy to say.

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Speaker 3: He was the Texas governor, which is a fake job.

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Speaker 3: And I'm telling you that as someone who was born

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Speaker 3: from Texas. The Texas governor literally doesn't do.

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Speaker 1: Any think he did nothing.

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Speaker 3: His entire foreign policy worldview was colored in by his father.

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Speaker 3: He ran on being a restrainer. Actually in the year

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Speaker 3: two thousand, you can go and read We're not going

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Speaker 3: to be the world's policeman, et cetera. Nine to eleven happens.

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Speaker 1: What happened.

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Speaker 3: The entire apparatus which was in his chain are the

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Speaker 3: people who took over, and he became convinced to be

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Speaker 3: a neo kon. This is the problem for AOC. She

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Speaker 3: just clearly this is your brain on New York Times

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Speaker 3: Like that's how I would describe it. She has not

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Speaker 3: thought very deeply around the foreign policy question. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 3: compare her to a Rocana. I mean good lord, it's

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Speaker 3: a pole or opposite. I mean, I really can He

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Speaker 3: probably is the only one who has a defined vision

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Speaker 3: which was updated also I think from Gaza. He said, okay,

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Speaker 3: very clearly, we had to see this. He you know,

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Speaker 3: he's pro Ukraine, which I have my own issues with.

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Speaker 3: But he's somebody who has thought about these questions, has

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Speaker 3: thought independently, has read a lot. I don't think he

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Speaker 3: would confuse TPP. I think on the Taiwan question he

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Speaker 3: would probably be able to give a decent enough answer

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Speaker 3: where it's like, well, we're going to make sure that

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Speaker 3: that try it doesn't happen. We have to balance great power,

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Speaker 3: competition and all that.

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Speaker 1: With China.

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Speaker 3: It's not just about command to the facts, it's about

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Speaker 3: what's your actual worldview. To me, this seems very colored

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Speaker 3: in by the Democratic Party establishment, and this is a

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Speaker 3: big danger for everybody because if anything is the truth,

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Speaker 3: what we have learned over the years is that when

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Speaker 3: you vote for president in our current imperial system, you

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Speaker 3: were going to get maybe two percent domestically of what

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Speaker 3: you want, but one hundred percent is in the control

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Speaker 3: of the president. Foreign policy. It's probably the most important

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Speaker 3: question that we have to answer and look, I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's been a miserable failure here under Donald Trump. Even

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Speaker 3: though I thought there were a lot of promising signs,

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Speaker 3: people who had spoke very much more articulately than aoc

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Speaker 3: let's say, at Munich, you know, ended up not having

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Speaker 3: all that much influencer being co opted. But so I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying that even just speaking coherently will lead to

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Speaker 3: necessarily good things. But we should really think deeply about

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Speaker 3: this question if we're going to when we elect.

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Speaker 1: A new president.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely agree, and I kind of reject I mean,

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, I don't know how much

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Speaker 2: it matters electorally, but I kind of reject this view

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Speaker 2: that Americans don't really vote on foreign policy.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that's true.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we saw numerous elections that turned on the

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Speaker 2: question of where were you on the Iraq War. Trump,

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Speaker 2: I think benefited very much from at least positioning himself

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Speaker 2: as an Iraq war critic. Whether he was one from

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Speaker 2: the jump or not is another matter. And you know,

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Speaker 2: and in the previous election, the choice between Trump and

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. We in our own focus group talk to

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Speaker 2: people who I was personally as someone who thought that

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Speaker 2: Godza mattered a lot. I was personally surprised by how

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Speaker 2: many people cited war and Gaza specifically as a reason

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Speaker 2: why they voted for Trump or didn't vote at all.

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Speaker 2: And you know, you can say they were foolish. I

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Speaker 2: you know, I certainly think there were plenty of reasons

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Speaker 2: to believe that it would not go well with him

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Speaker 2: as president, but they were looking at what was being

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Speaker 2: done under a Biden Harris administration.

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Speaker 4: We're like, we do not support this.

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Speaker 2: So it is also an area where look, we've never

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Speaker 2: had a woman president. We've certainly we've never had a

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Speaker 2: Latino president. You have to ask people to imagine you

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Speaker 2: in that role, and part of that is being able

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Speaker 2: to handle yourself in these settings. Come across as very

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Speaker 2: confident in your assertions. If she was on this panel

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Speaker 2: with who is this guy? He's like the Ambassador Jade,

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's not an impressive person, but he's like

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Speaker 2: very confident. You know, he's up there saying his thing

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Speaker 2: taut and Trump's quote unquote accomplishments blah blah blah. And

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Speaker 2: to see her diminish next to that guy, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it was very disappointing me It also reminded me of

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Speaker 2: when she first got elected. She got asked a question

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Speaker 2: about Israel Polaitans, remember, and the answer was kind of

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Speaker 2: a mess, and she clearly knew, Okay, there's some things

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Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to say, but I don't know what

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Speaker 2: those things are. And it was very forgivable at the

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Speaker 2: moment because here she's been an order organizer and a

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Speaker 2: bartender and she's, you know, runs for Congress, and this

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Speaker 2: isn't something that she's really steeped in. So I think, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I get it. You are coming in there as a

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Speaker 2: representative of the people. This isn't an area that you've

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Speaker 2: studied and explored, and you now have the opportunity as

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Speaker 2: a member of Congress. But not only with her presentation,

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Speaker 2: but also with the way she's continued to be really

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Speaker 2: twisted into knots over what she wants to say and

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Speaker 2: how she wants to vote on Israel and Palestine. It's

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Speaker 2: emblematic of the fact that some of that work has

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Speaker 2: been done to really come to a fully fleshed out

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Speaker 2: foreign policy of worldview, but there's still a lot of

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Speaker 2: work to be done, and that to me really came

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Speaker 2: across in this present, it was.

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Speaker 3: Seven years ago. You can forgive. This is your job.

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Speaker 3: You have nothing else to do. This is literally your job.

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Speaker 3: You want to run for president, and this is what

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Speaker 3: you're doing. Let me know, return to the Trump thing.

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Speaker 3: So I was just thinking about it because I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: he was bumbling, all true. Guess what though, deep inside

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Speaker 3: of that was the same theory. America is getting ripped

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Speaker 3: off and the previously each sucks. So no matter what

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Speaker 3: the second grade reading level of all that was, the

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Speaker 3: message was coherent.

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Speaker 1: Well, and message on this was not coherent.

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Speaker 4: The man is not lacking in confidence.

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Speaker 2: And you know, for better or worse, someone who gets

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Speaker 2: up there and is bumbling and saying terrible things, but

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Speaker 2: they say it with like their full chest and totally confident,

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Speaker 2: and you know, with the whole ego behind them. It's

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Speaker 2: appealing to people because if you have that, you know,

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Speaker 2: that quiver in your voice like I'm not really sure

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying, It signals weakness. I mean, that's just

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Speaker 2: the way that people read it. So even though what

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Speaker 2: he said, if you read it out in a transcript,

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Speaker 2: may have been bumbling, second grade reading level blah blah blah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the communication skills are effective, and he is nothing if

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Speaker 2: not confident. So you know, I think, look, it's something

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Speaker 2: she's going to have to really it's it's something she's

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Speaker 2: going to have to really work on, and we'll see

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Speaker 2: where it goes.

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Speaker 4: I mean, all that being said, take a look at

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Speaker 4: this D two.

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Speaker 2: Her polling is extraordinarily high among young Democrats. I mean

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Speaker 2: they freaking love AOC eighty one percent net approval rating

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Speaker 2: favorability rating among young Democrats.

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Speaker 4: There is no one who comes close to that.

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Speaker 2: The second position here is Pete Boodages down at plus

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Speaker 2: forty five percent. Then you've got Gavin plus forty two percent,

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Speaker 2: Kamala thirty eight, Gretchen Whitmer, who we're about to talk about.

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Speaker 4: Thirty four.

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Speaker 2: So she is she is the Democratic Party star for

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Speaker 2: young Democrats. So she has a lot that she can work.

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Speaker 2: She's certainly got a fundraising base on domestic issues. She's

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Speaker 2: you know, very confident, and I think in step with

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Speaker 2: where the base of the party is very much. But

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Speaker 2: this definitely exposed an area of significant, significant weakness for

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Speaker 2: and you can just imagine her up on a debate

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Speaker 2: stage with.

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Speaker 4: Another one who may be wrong but confident.

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Speaker 2: Gavin newsome, you know, is certainly going to be you

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Speaker 2: could you could see it going poorly for her in

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Speaker 2: that sort of setting, under that sort of scrutiny and

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Speaker 2: with that level of pressure.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I look the polling. It is interesting.

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Speaker 3: I'll be honest, I don't really understand it because to me,

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Speaker 3: she has not been the leader in this. I mean,

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Speaker 3: do you tell me I'm not a leftist. I'm not

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Speaker 3: as embroiled in left politics outside of Zoran, which wasn't

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Speaker 3: she a little bit late to there were a lot

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Speaker 3: of people who were much earlier. Like outside of that,

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen her been a national leader in any

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Speaker 3: of this. Rokana is everything AOC pretends, like in my opinion,

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Speaker 3: like he let on the Epstein question, he let on Gaza,

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Speaker 3: like she was not a leader on Gaza. She gives

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Speaker 3: some weird ass answer about defensive weapons even on ice,

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Speaker 3: like yeah, you know, you could say she was an

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Speaker 3: ice anti ice, abolish ice person in twenty eighteen, not today.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what, Chris van Holland's more of a warrior

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Speaker 3: than her, Like I'm being just being real, Like if

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Speaker 3: you look at issue by issue by issue, is it

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Speaker 3: all vibe based, because if it is, you need to

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Speaker 3: update your priors, like if you just and again I'm

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Speaker 3: looking this as an analyst. This does not seem like

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Speaker 3: the person who has been a leader on any of

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Speaker 3: the consistent issues.

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Speaker 1: If I'm a Democrat.

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Speaker 2: And if I'm a base, I think the I think

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Speaker 2: the reason that her that she is so well thought of,

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Speaker 2: especially among young Democrats, is because the Bernie wing of

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Speaker 2: the party is ascendant, right, and she is the person

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Speaker 2: who is most associated. She is like the person who

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Speaker 2: is not Bernie, who is most associated with those politics.

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Speaker 2: And you know, she did the Fighting Oligarchy tour at

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Speaker 2: the beginning of the Trump administration. I think that was

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Speaker 2: very beneficial to her. She's very good on you know,

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Speaker 2: so her social media presence, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: But is more about a branding than it is a reality.

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Speaker 4: Because that's what I agree with.

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Speaker 3: You look at the balance sheet, She's she's not been

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Speaker 3: a leader on any of the major issues none.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like, I mean, I do think that

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Speaker 2: that Rowe, who of course I like and we love

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Speaker 2: that he comes on the show and all those sorts

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Speaker 2: of things, but you know, he really stuck his neck

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Speaker 2: out on I mean on Gaza, he's getting all kinds

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Speaker 2: of it in coming from Apac and whoever he on

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Speaker 2: Epstein has been, he was very pruscient.

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Speaker 3: There in California and then going up against this guy's tape,

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Speaker 3: and not.

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Speaker 4: Just in California.

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Speaker 2: He represents Philicon Alley like they're all that is his,

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Speaker 2: those are his constituents, and he's been very courageous there

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Speaker 2: and understood the moment of where the country. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I just coming back to the Epstein thing, not just

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Speaker 2: on a this is the right morally righteous thing to do.

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Speaker 2: This has been the most effective attack on Trump. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this has been more damaging to him than much of

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Speaker 2: anything else I can think of outside of his own

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Speaker 2: like terrible economic policies, but in terms of actually creating

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Speaker 2: friction in the magabase and separating the podcast grows from

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration, nothing has been more successful. So he

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Speaker 2: has had a very successful instinct there, and I do

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Speaker 2: I don't feel like AOC has been sort of leading

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Speaker 2: the charge on any of these key issues in this moment, and.

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Speaker 3: She's not confident she does. She won't even come on

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Speaker 3: this show. I'm not going to see her on Flavoring anytime. Soon.

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Speaker 1: I'm not seeing around Sean Ryan anytime. So, I mean

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Speaker 1: rokinda got Sean.

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Speaker 3: Ryan, who's one of the biggest podcasters in the country,

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Speaker 3: to basically agree with him on the Epstein question. You

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Speaker 3: turn this person, Sean Ryan's out there tweeting about how great. Well, look,

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Speaker 3: maybe I'm reading too much into it again, maybe you

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Speaker 3: know I'm too online.

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Speaker 1: Hand up.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's two different there's two different media strategy along, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, like it's two different media strategies. Rose media

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Speaker 2: strategy is I'm going to go out to all the podcasts, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna go Sean Ryan, whoever

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Speaker 2: invites me, basically, I will go.

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Speaker 4: He just was on with that. I've had it, ladies.

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Speaker 2: AOC's media strategy is I'm going to build my own

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Speaker 2: media apparatus on my terms, right, my Instagram lives, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna be on Twitter. I'm going to like my social

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Speaker 2: media presence is going to be my media strategy. So

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Speaker 2: two different media strategies. We'll see which one ultimately pans out.

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Speaker 2: Another person who was there, let's actually skip ahead to

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Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom, because I think he's more noteworthy than Gretchen Whitmer.

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Speaker 2: One thing that is interesting is you probably didn't maybe

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Speaker 2: didn't even know Gavin Newsom was there because AOC did

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Speaker 2: steal the spotlight. Now it wasn't necessarily in a positive way,

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Speaker 2: because there was a lot of criticism of her comments.

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Speaker 2: The right, of course picked up on all the stumbles

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Speaker 2: and the bumbles and her looking, you know, not fully

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Speaker 2: prepared for this, But there were plenty of lefties who,

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Speaker 2: like myself, a critical of the content of her comments

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Speaker 2: with regard to hey, we're going to go out and

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Speaker 2: be the policeman of the world. Let's go and take

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Speaker 2: a listen though to a little bit of Newsom's presentation

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Speaker 2: and what he wanted to convey there at Munich.

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Speaker 7: You doing to fight the US federal governments reversal and

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Speaker 7: climate policies.

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Speaker 6: I'm showing up and.

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Speaker 8: Look it's Donald Trump is doubling down on stupid. California

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Speaker 8: has been a leader in climate policy going back to

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Speaker 8: Ronald Reagan. Nineteen sixty seven, Governor Ronald Reagan established the

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Speaker 8: first tailpipe emissions in the United States of America, created

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Speaker 8: the California Air Resources Board. Three years later, president by

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Speaker 8: the name of Richard Nixon, another Republican codified California's leadership

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Speaker 8: under the Clean Air Act. Never in the history of

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Speaker 8: the United States of America has there been a more

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Speaker 8: destructive president than the current occupant in the White House

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Speaker 8: in Washington, d C. He's trying to create the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 8: He's a wholly owned subsidiary of big oil, gas and coal.

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Speaker 8: He's quite literally reopening coal plants in the United States

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Speaker 8: of America. He's received close to half a billion dollars

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Speaker 8: in campaign contributions. He asks for one billion look it

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Speaker 8: up in return for basically eliminating all regulations in the

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Speaker 8: United States of America de facto. He just did that

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Speaker 8: yesterday with federal regulations and the endangerment finding. It is

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Speaker 8: code read in terms of American leadership in this space

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Speaker 8: low carbon, green growth. And I know a thing or

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Speaker 8: two about this. I represent the fourth largest economy from

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Speaker 8: a GDP perspective in the world.

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Speaker 2: So Newsom obviously a presentation is very confident, and he

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Speaker 2: managed to position himself over eactly as a fiercer critic

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Speaker 2: of Trump and Trump's foreign policy in his approach to

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Speaker 2: global affairs. Again, I watch all of AOC's presentation has

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Speaker 2: the vibe to me of wanting to sound like you're

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Speaker 2: smart rather than just wanting to communicate directly, and so

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Speaker 2: putting a lot of sort of like fluff and flowery

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Speaker 2: words around it, which makes it just sound more incoherent

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Speaker 2: and less assertive.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, with Newsome what you saw there as a masterclass.

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Speaker 3: He didn't say anything literally anything about the way that

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Speaker 3: the world should work by the way, you know, get

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Speaker 3: to the old details. He and AOC are like this.

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Speaker 3: They basically believe in the exact same thing he's talking

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Speaker 3: there about some DSG WAF vision. Sorry esg okay, I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's nothing all that different about that than standard issue

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Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton liberalism, which will lead us right back into

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Speaker 3: Bengazi Iraq and all the other nonsense. But that's the

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Speaker 3: problem is that on a presentation level, he accomplished what

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Speaker 3: she couldn't. Is that, by the way, not only does

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Speaker 3: I think he actually believes that like from a form

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Speaker 3: policy vision, he communicated it much more effectively and confidently.

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Speaker 3: And so this is going to be I think very

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Speaker 3: important for what the fewure you know, party hashing out

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Speaker 3: and all that will look like. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: much foreign policy will play a role in this particular

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Speaker 3: primary election. Obviously, we have no idea you know what

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Speaker 3: the future and all that will hold I think will primarily.

436
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 1: Be domestic policy focused.

437
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying she can't win if that's going

438
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 3: to be her strong suit, but I don't know.

439
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: I would.

440
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 3: I do hope that the voters actually do take a

441
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 3: look at like who's actually doing what, like if you

442
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 3: do care about standing up to Trump and all that,

443
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 3: I do not see. I see him was more effective

444
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 3: than her. Yes, absolutely, not only from a rhetorical level.

445
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 3: At least the governor of California is actually powerful doing

446
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 3: stuff within his own realm. Sure, she's a lowly congressman.

447
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 3: You can't do everything. But Rocana' is a lowly congressman

448
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: and he's doing something. Thomas Massey is a lowly congressman.

449
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 3: He did something. Senator Chris mann Holland is from a

450
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 3: you know if he's from what Maryland, Like it's a

451
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 3: tiny little state.

452
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 1: They have no power. He basically was a leader on

453
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: Kilmar Abrego Garson Like.

454
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of people who are becoming political entrepreneurs.

455
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: Who I be.

456
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 3: I mean, what Chris Murphy's from Connecticut, Like nobody cares right.

457
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: Tiny little state.

458
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 3: He actually was able to raise his national profile, so

459
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: I don't think it's an excuse either.

460
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 4: Murphy was there as well. Murphy's an interesting one.

461
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: He's one we've been trying to get on the show

462
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: because he seems to have understood the populist moment.

463
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 8: Now.

464
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 2: He's like positioned himself with a lot of like populist rhetoric, and.

465
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 4: He actually had a moment.

466
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm not going to play it here because I don't know,

467
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 2: like that extraordinary, but talking about how listen, that's a

468
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 2: fake cea spire and gassa like people are still getting killed,

469
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: and again, it was you know, I mean it was.

470
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 4: It was a good moment for him. It was clippable.

471
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: I think it resonated with the Democratic base, and you're

472
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: gonna have a lot of people like he probably wants

473
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: to run.

474
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 4: Newsomp's obviously going to run.

475
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: There's a piece out today about how Pelosi's like mission

476
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 2: in life now is to get Gavin Newsom elected president.

477
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 2: But in any case, you're gonna have a lot of

478
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 2: people who have at least enough sense to see where

479
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: the Democratic base is. And even if they're just normal

480
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 2: status quo politicians, try to position themselves in that vein,

481
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 2: and that's what Gavin is doing with his you know,

482
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,719
Speaker 2: resistance to Trump politics, even as he's fighting again this

483
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: wealth tax in California, so you know exactly what side

484
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: he's going.

485
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 4: To be on at the end of the day. Chris Murphy,

486
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 4: I'm sort of intrigued by I want to know if

487
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 4: he really.

488
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 2: Means the things that he says, and it's very hard

489
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: to say at this point because he's always been just

490
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: a you know, also a standard issue Democratic politician on

491
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: domestic policy and on foreign policy. So you're gonna have

492
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: a lot of people who trying to pull off the

493
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: Jasmine Crockett of like I'm gonna sound like I'm a fighter,

494
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: but the end of the day, I'm just basically, you know,

495
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: in line with Nancy Pelosi.

496
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: I interviewed Murphy at this conference from oh, yeah, what

497
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 3: do you think this is against our own interest? Because

498
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 3: you've been trying to book m but he still has

499
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: been unresponsive.

500
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: So I found it he's a very calculating guy.

501
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: So he did this thing where I asked him about

502
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 3: what does a future coalition you're going to have to

503
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: make up? You know, you're gonna have to compromise on

504
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 3: some of your values, right, if you want to if

505
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 3: you want to win. That's how the Republicans won, that's

506
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: how if you want to win, if you want to

507
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 3: win the popular vote.

508
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: So what do you do?

509
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: And he was like, well, I've learned that we may

510
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: have to compromise. But he didn't say anything except on guns.

511
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 3: He's like, well, guns was very important. I'm like, dude,

512
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 3: gun is not like a major cleavage issue today, right?

513
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 3: That seemed like a very selected one where, oh, maybe

514
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 3: i'd be work with willing to work with somebody who

515
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 3: disagreed with me on guns. I mean I didn't have

516
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 3: enough time to follow up on abortion or any of

517
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 3: these other like real litmus tests, you know, questions.

518
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: But that kind of showed me that, like he's trying

519
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: to read the room.

520
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: He's trying to pick the most you know, non the

521
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 3: most non controversial issue where he can claim like he's compromising.

522
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: Whenever I asked him directly on tariffs, he was just like,

523
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 3: tariffs are a tool, but he had no coherent like

524
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: vision eman on anti trust, everything was kind of like spit.

525
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: Out from a white paper.

526
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 3: Now, don't get me wrong, he's a smart guy, all right,

527
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 3: Like he's actually smart, well read much more, read the.

528
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 4: Room much better than he read Gavin in a lot

529
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 4: of ways.

530
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 3: He read the room, He reads the news, he listens

531
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: to the podcasts and all that. But everything just seems

532
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 3: a little bit like three to six months out of day.

533
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 3: Maybe that's you know, a very unkind way of saying it.

534
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: But then, like I said, I mean not to be

535
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 3: a love letter to Rocana, but like this guy is

536
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: on our show like months before any of this becomes

537
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 3: a thing. And then that's political entrepreneurship. That's vision, right,

538
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: That vision is Trump saying build the wall, Like vision

539
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: is kind of picking up on Epstein way before it

540
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: becomes a thing.

541
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 4: That that's like I got to do some of these shows.

542
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: Right exactly.

543
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like that's entrepreneurship is picking something long before it

544
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 3: becomes mainstream and then kind of picking it up and

545
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: turning it in to your own thing.

546
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: And those are all these people I'm gonna respect at

547
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: a political level.

548
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 3: Those are the founders as well, like the true the

549
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: founders of new movements. Like we think about Reagan, Reagan

550
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 3: was way out of his time whenever it come to

551
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 3: not only entertainment, aspect of politics, but also like you know,

552
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: be going all in on his his economic vision. I

553
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 3: disagree with it, but he went all in in seventy six,

554
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 3: long before. Yeah, he wins nineteen eighty. Let's think about,

555
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: you know how he is a political entrepreneur. I mean, god,

556
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: this guy was on lou Dabs show railing against oligarchs

557
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 3: and Fox Business in you know, two thousand and eight,

558
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, like Obama two thousand and two,

559
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: it took balls to give the speech against the Iraq War.

560
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: There was nothing in it for him. That's the end

561
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: reason he ends up president. So you got to put

562
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: yourself out there and actually do something risky.

563
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: You have to move not to where things are today,

564
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: but where you anticipate they're going. And in any case,

565
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: you know, interesting display of the twenty twenty eight contenders.

566
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 4: I do want to talk a little bit about where.

567
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: The democratic leadership is today because talk about not reading

568
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 2: the room. I am astonished that Hakeem Jeffries did this interview.

569
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: He went on with Joy Reed and wajahat Ali, and

570
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: wadj asked him some difficult questions, in particular about ICE

571
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 2: and about APAC. Let's go ahead and take a listen

572
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 2: to this exchange on ICE in particular.

573
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 6: Just today it.

574
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 9: Came out that ICE is using thirty eight billion dollars

575
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 9: to convert warehouses into camps. I'm going to call them

576
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 9: concentration camps. Your colleague, Representive Raskin went to one just

577
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 9: yesterday in Maryland and said there were sixty people, sixty

578
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 9: people cramped like sardines in one room who only had

579
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 9: access to toilet. Sixty five percent of people taken by

580
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 9: ICE had no convictions. That's from the Cato Institute, a

581
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 9: right wing institute. ICE has killed eight people this year

582
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 9: alone that we know of, two of them, Renae Nicole

583
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 9: Good and Alex Pretty. The latest polls came out this

584
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 9: week eight p poles over sixty percent of Americans now

585
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 9: disapprove of ICE. That means in three weeks it's gone

586
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 9: from thirty percent to sixty percent. Now, if I may,

587
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 9: I'm going to be a bit blood here. Leaders lead,

588
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 9: and what we've seen is people are impressionable. If you

589
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 9: lead on something, people will follow. It seems the wind

590
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 9: is behind your back for the first time ever. ICE

591
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 9: has a history, CEPP has a history of terrorizing black

592
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 9: and brown communities. People are asking themselves, why are we

593
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 9: our tax payer dollars paying for masked, lawless men to

594
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 9: terrorize our communities, kidnap people, take children, and kill Americans.

595
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 9: So I ask you, and I'm going to a falling up

596
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 9: to Joy because i want to answer this. You said

597
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 9: you want to rain and ice. I'm saying, I'm talking

598
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 9: about the long term. Now, why not lead and say

599
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 9: abolish ice? Because what you're telling us is you want

600
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 9: our taxpayer dollars to pay for a lawless, massed, armed

601
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 9: agency to continue terrorizing our cities. And I'm trying to

602
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 9: figure out how you, as a leader, can be telling

603
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 9: Americans that their taxpayer dollars should be going Twice, I.

604
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 10: Don't understand anything that you just said when I've moved English, well,

605
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 10: I don't understand anything that you've just said to me

606
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 10: when I've made clear that taxpayer dollars should be used

607
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 10: to make life more affordable for the American people, not

608
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 10: brutalized or kill them. That's the whole reason we're in

609
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 10: this fight right now. That's the whole reason the DHS

610
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 10: is getting ready to shut down.

611
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 9: That's abolished with me, abolish ice.

612
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 10: That is a Listen. I'm going to use the language

613
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 10: that I want to use. You can use the language

614
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 10: that you want to use.

615
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: I don't understand anything you're saying, And I mean, what

616
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 2: why just saying there? That is the overwhelming perspective of

617
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: the Democratic base by the polls, like overwhelming perspective, and

618
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: what I would respect it more. Frankly, so if Kim

619
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: Jeffreyes just came out and said, look, no, I think

620
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: we need ice ears why we need immigration enforcement. I

621
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: believe it should be done differently. That's why we're doing

622
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: X and Y and Z. But no, I don't think

623
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: we should. But the fact he tries to not say

624
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: anything or pretend like he doesn't understand the question, it's

625
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: just so utterly embarrassing and disgraceful and is emblematic of

626
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: why him and Chuck Schumer have absolutely lost the trust

627
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: of the Democratic base and why they don't have influence

628
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: to push the party any longer in the direction where

629
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: they want to take it.

630
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.

631
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: It was very confused by that answer. I don't understand

632
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: what you just said. I mean, I think he may

633
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: have been prickly and reacting to the extremely long winded

634
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: political speech slash question that he was.

635
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: This is the politicians.

636
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: Don't be a baby, and they're such like And that's

637
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: the thing with the Democrats to your point, like there's

638
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 2: such baby. They're so afraid to go on somewhere. It's

639
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: going to be confrontational. Someone's gonna be mad at them,

640
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: and someone's gonna ask them a hard question. Like shout

641
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: out to Lys's law food clot Kenfrikin wanted to come

642
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: on here, you know, And again shoutout to Row who

643
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: goes on anywhere with anyone anytime and gets all kinds

644
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: of shit and the hard questions all the time, like

645
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 2: don't be such a baby. It's okay for people to

646
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: disagree with you and argue with you, like have a

647
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: worldview and be willing to be well in a sense

648
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: stands tunny it is.

649
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 3: I'm not going to fall for Republican trap and give

650
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: them the same weapon that they got on defund the police.

651
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: I'm horrified by Listen, like why am I able to

652
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: give a better answer.

653
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm horrified by ice taxing. I won't fund it.

654
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: That's why I'm standing up to President Trump right now

655
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: and you're talking out here on a podcast.

656
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: Boom done, Okay. End of a story.

657
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to make sure that this none of

658
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 3: this ever happens again, and that when we win the Congress,

659
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: every one of them will be dragged here before us.

660
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. I don't even believe any

661
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: of that. I can able to give a coherent answer.

662
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 4: But he knows, he knows.

663
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, just on the political talent level,

664
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: there's just nothing there. And I hate the way he

665
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: talks and does all this arm thing. It's so irritating.

666
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: Somebody clearly told him like, oh, this is the way

667
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: to communicateate your points more effectively. But they know that

668
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: they are not in sync with where the Democratic base is,

669
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: so they want to play hide the ball about what

670
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: they actually think. And it comes across here too when

671
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: waj asked him about, Hey, so how about you don't

672
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: take APAC money anymore.

673
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 4: How about you commit to that. Let's take a listen

674
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 4: of that.

675
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 9: APEC now has spent two million dollars attacking a moderate

676
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 9: leaning Democrat, Tom Malananowski, a Democrat in the special House

677
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 9: election in New Jersey Elema District. And we got a

678
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 9: progressive Latina, a representative of Mehia who want who by

679
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 9: the way, says abolish ice. My question for you, if

680
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 9: you're looking for accountability, if you're looking for change, shouldn't

681
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 9: Democrats stop taking money from APAC that has spent so

682
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 9: much money against Democrats.

683
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 10: Well, listen, everyone's gonna have to make their individual decision.

684
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 10: My view as it relates to Democratic incumbents, first of all,

685
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 10: is that I will continue to stand by every single

686
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 10: one of them, whether that's Alexandria Cassio Cortez on the

687
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 10: one hand, or the most conservative moderate Democrat on the

688
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 10: other who's sitting in the Trump district, and all points

689
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 10: in between. Rights, That's what I'm going to do as

690
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 10: House Democratic leader. Now, in terms of how people individually

691
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 10: fund raise, I'm proud of the fact that my average contribution,

692
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 10: amongst the millions of dollars that I've been working hard

693
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 10: to raise for my own reelection that I use to

694
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 10: help elect Democrats in other parts of the country, is

695
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 10: twenty seven dollars per contributor. That's my average contribution. That's

696
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 10: probably the lowest in the Congress. And so now everyone

697
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 10: is going to raise money from their own constituents in

698
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 10: different ways, and their own constituents are going to have

699
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 10: a variety of different perspectives on a variety of different issues.

700
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 10: But make no mistake, there's a big difference between Democrats

701
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 10: and Republicans, and we're seeing that right now.

702
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 9: Will you stop taking money from APEC.

703
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 10: I'm going to continue to raise money in the same

704
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 10: way that I've been raising it, where the average contribution

705
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 10: from millions of people across the country is twenty seven

706
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 10: dollars per contributor.

707
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: So the answ are there, of course, is yes, I'm

708
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: going to continue any way. Back and look, this is

709
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: the guy who wouldn't endorse Zorn Mamdani. I. He's a

710
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: New Yorker and Zorn was a Democratic nominee up until

711
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: the very last minute, and you had to be drag

712
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: kicking and screaming to it. And there is such a

713
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: gulf between where he and Schumer are and where the

714
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: party is at this point, and he knows it, but

715
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: he does not have anything approaching the political skill to

716
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: be able to pull off massaging that vast golf.

717
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: The only butt to that is he still seems to

718
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: hold power. So for example, remember that Zorn back off

719
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 3: backing a primary challenger to him, which I got to

720
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: be honest, I still don't get it.

721
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: It's one of those.

722
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: It was one of the most mystifying decisions I have

723
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: seen yet from an assurgent insurgent politician who had his

724
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 3: own base of support. By the way, Zorn can ever

725
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: be president?

726
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: Right, this is it for you, bro. If you don't

727
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: do a good job, you're dead. You will never ever

728
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: be anybody again. Right.

729
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: The highest office in the land that you can ascend

730
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 3: to is the New York governor, Like if now is

731
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 3: the time right to actually do something to change things

732
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: and instead.

733
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: But I think I think the game, I think that

734
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 2: was the calculus though, was like I can't. I have

735
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: to pick my battles. And I also disagreed with the decisions,

736
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: but I think that was the view. It was like,

737
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: I have to pick my battles up against all of

738
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: these other forces. I can't be at war with the

739
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: like leader of the Democrats in the House as well,

740
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: who's very powerful, influential I'm sure in New York City

741
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: in ways that we probably don't have total exposure to.

742
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: So I think that was the decision there. But you're

743
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: absolutely right. The other question is you're going to have

744
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: a whole wave of new Democrats coming into House. Very

745
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: likely you're going to have I think Democratic incumbents who

746
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: lose against insurgent primary challengers. You have a whole series

747
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: of primary challenges going on right now in open seats

748
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 2: or in Trump seats where you've got a lot of

749
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: wind in the sales of the Zoron or AOC or

750
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: Bernie style candidates. And so what are they going to

751
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 2: do when they decide, you know, who they're picking for leader,

752
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: especially if it's a narrow margin and he can't afford

753
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 2: to lose that many of them it's.

754
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: Agree, yeah, look, lay down your marker, because all evidence

755
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 3: seems to suggest that they're not going to do anything,

756
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,919
Speaker 3: and they'll probably vote for it. But we'll see, we'll see,

757
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 3: maybe some of them will actually stick to their word. Okay,

758
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 3: let's get to Anthropic.

759
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: So some major developments in the AI world, in particular

760
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 2: a fight between Anthropic and the Pentagon. But first wanted

761
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: to bring you a little bit of this interview between

762
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: the CEO of Anthropic, dary Ahmadai, and Ross Douthaut of

763
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: The New York Times, where he is talking about whether

764
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 2: or not he thinks the AI that Anthropic has created

765
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 2: or grown or developed. However, you want to say it

766
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: whether or not it is conscious. Let's take a listen

767
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: to that.

768
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 11: Suppose you have a model that assigns itself a seventy

769
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 11: two percent chance of being conscious.

770
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: Would you believe it?

771
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is this is one of these really hard

772
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 7: to answer questions night, but it's very important. As much

773
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 7: as every you know, every question you've asked me before this,

774
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 7: as you know, devilishous sociotechnical problem as it had been,

775
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 7: you know, at least at least you know, we at

776
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 7: least understand the factual basis of how to answer these questions.

777
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 7: This is something rather different. We've taken a generally precautionary

778
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 7: approach here. We don't know if the models are conscious.

779
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 7: We're not even sure that we know what it would

780
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 7: mean for a model to be conscious, or whether a

781
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 7: model can be conscious, but you know, we're open to

782
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 7: the idea that it could be, and so we've taken

783
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 7: certain measures to, you know, to make sure that if

784
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 7: we hypothesize it, the models did have some morally relevant experience.

785
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 7: I don't know if I want to use the word

786
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 7: conscious that that they do. You know that they have

787
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 7: a good experience. So the first thing we did I

788
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 7: think this was, you know, six months ago or so,

789
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 7: is we gave the models basically and I quit this

790
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 7: job button where they can just press the I quit

791
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 7: this job button and then they have to stop doing

792
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 7: whatever the task is. They very infrequently press this button.

793
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 7: I think it's it's usually around you know, sorting through

794
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 7: child sexualization material or like you know, discussing something with

795
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 7: you know a lot of gore, blood and guts or something,

796
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 7: and you know, similar to humans and models will just say, nah,

797
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 7: I don't want to know, don't I don't want to

798
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 7: do this.

799
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 11: How do you sustain mastery in an environment where most

800
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 11: humans experience AI as if it is a peer and

801
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 11: a potentially superior peer.

802
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 7: So the thing I was going to say is that

803
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 7: is that actually I wonder if if there's a kind

804
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 7: of an elegant way to satisfy all three, including the

805
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 7: last two. Again, this is me dreaming in Machines of

806
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 7: Loving Grace mode, right, It's this is this is this

807
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 7: mode I go into where I'm like, man, I see

808
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 7: all these problems. I you know, if we could solve it?

809
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 7: Is there is there is there an elegant way. This

810
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 7: is not me saying there are no problems here. You

811
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 7: know that that's not how I think. But you know,

812
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 7: if we think about making the constitution of the AI

813
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 7: so that the AI has sophisticated understanding of its relationship

814
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 7: to human beings and it induces psychologically healthy behavior in

815
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 7: the humans, a psychologically healthy relationship between the AI and

816
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 7: the humans, and I think something that could grow out

817
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 7: of that psychologically healthy, not psychologically unhealthy relationship is some

818
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 7: understanding of the relationship between human and machine, and perhaps

819
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 7: that relationship could be the idea that you know, these

820
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 7: models when you interact with them, when when you talk

821
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 7: to them, they're they're you know, they're they're really helpful,

822
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 7: they want the best for you, they want you to

823
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 7: listen to them, but they they don't want to take

824
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 7: away your freedom and your agency and take over your life.

825
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: So that was him reflecting on he's written these two

826
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: major essays. One of them was like the sort of

827
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: utopian vision of what AI could be, and that's what

828
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: they're referring to.

829
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 4: They're the machines of love and grace.

830
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: And then he's more recently penned an essay that is

831
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 2: spelling out some of the deep concerns and potential problems

832
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: with the direction of AI. So in any case, he's

833
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: sort of dreaming there of, Oh, what if the AI

834
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 2: is like actually great for humanity while it doesn't seem

835
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 2: to be the products that we have currently.

836
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: I don't know.

837
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 3: The entire thing is creepy, and what it gets to

838
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: is the scale and the lack of control democratically that

839
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 3: we all have. And I think that's what really scares

840
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 3: me the most. We were kind of talking about this

841
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: with our own AI. Use.

842
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: I'm not against technology. I think technology is good.

843
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 3: I do think that a lot of the way that

844
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 3: they are currently selling it, their valuations, the data centers,

845
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 3: the social costs, the social disruption, the fact that we

846
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: have no regulation and in fact we're kind of just

847
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 3: like let it ride. We're betting our whole US economy

848
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 3: on it. That's the stuff I really object to. It's

849
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: not the technology great in and of itself, right. And

850
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 3: I do think though, fundamentally, that if you're going to

851
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 3: have some transformative change, the worst way to go about

852
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 3: it is the way that we usually do, which is

853
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: you allow it to happen, you let it be prioritized,

854
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: and then from there you get mass social dysfunction and

855
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: we just kind of have to like have an emergency

856
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: figure it out period. And when something like this is

857
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 3: so easily foreseen, we should we should be able to

858
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 3: put in safeguards or have questions or try to guide

859
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: it in exactly the way we wanted to, which is

860
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 3: the Chinese model.

861
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: That's what the Chinese.

862
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 3: The Chinese very early on from the Internet, they're like,

863
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 3: we're not having open internet period because we think that

864
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 3: it will lead to this and this.

865
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: They were correct.

866
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 3: Now, look it's anti democratic, but they were like, we

867
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: will use it as a social force to shape our population.

868
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: TikTok.

869
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: You can't just like scroll TikTok over there. They have

870
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 3: time controls, video games, like, they have government incentive specifically

871
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 3: type behavior. Now, I think we can do some of

872
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 3: that while also balancing what makes us great freedom, First

873
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: Amendment and all of that. There's an easy way through regulation,

874
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: through shaping through incentive, and instead we're currently shaping things

875
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 3: in the worst possible direction.

876
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: I think your point is the most important one, which

877
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: is that like how we feel about Dario or Sam

878
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 2: Altman or Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, this cast of characters,

879
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: in a sense, it doesn't really matter what daria Amidae

880
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 2: has to say. The problem is that we the problem

881
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 2: is that one person has so much control that we

882
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 2: have to hope that this is someone who is going

883
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: to have not only the good intentions, but the foresight

884
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: to understand how to deploy these things. The problem at

885
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 2: its core is that we should not have just an

886
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: ain Randian libertarian approach to this incredibly powerful and transformative technology.

887
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 4: And I know there are a lot of people.

888
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 2: On the left that are in the camp of basically

889
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: like this is all just sort of hype and a hoax,

890
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 2: and even the dumerism is a sort of roundabout hype mechanism.

891
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so powerful, that's why we're so nervous,

892
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 2: and it gets a lot of headlines. And look, there's

893
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: no doubt that there is something to that, But I

894
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: think we do have to grapple with the reality that

895
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: even in its current form, it will be relatively transformative

896
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 2: in terms of the labor force. Now, in its current

897
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: form is going to replace solve white color job blah blah, No,

898
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: it's not going to do that. Is it going to

899
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 2: create a lot of upheaval? Yes, I think we already

900
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: are at that stage where a lot of entry level

901
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: positions are going to be transformed. The way work is

902
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: done is going to be transformed. There's certainly going to

903
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: be a significant amount of tumult in the way that

904
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 2: obviously there was during the Industrial Revolution, and even with

905
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: the advent of the Internet, there was a significant amount

906
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: of tumult in the labor market, and you know, having

907
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 2: to change skills and all of that, and you know,

908
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: ultimately a decision was also made during that time to

909
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: decimate our blue collar workforce. That is the direction they're

910
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: certainly trying to go in with the white collar workforce.

911
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: But yeah, at its core, the problem is applying a

912
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: sort of pure free market capitalist approach to this incredibly

913
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: powerful technology which is going to lead to mass consolidation

914
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 2: of wealth and place all of our faiths in the

915
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 2: hands of these individuals.

916
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 4: On the consciousness question, you know, I don't.

917
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: There there is no There are a lot of theories

918
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: about what consciousness even is. Right, So then to be

919
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: able to even say, you know, consciousness is like a

920
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: light switch that turns on and off, I don't think

921
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: that's the way most people think about it. So in

922
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 2: some ways, I also think that this conversation about whether

923
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: or not the models are conscious is a little bit

924
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: of a distraction from the core questions of how they're

925
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: going to be deployed, who's going to have ownership, who's.

926
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 4: Going to have input on the decision making.

927
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 2: Here, let's go ahead and get to this core story though,

928
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 2: that I wanted to cover, which is, let's put you

929
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: two up on the screen, speaking of the way that

930
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: this technology will be deployed. So we now have reporting

931
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 2: for the Wall Street Journal that the Pentagon used Anthropics

932
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: Claude in the Maduro Venezuela raid. Use of the model

933
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: through a contract with Palenteer highlights the growing role of

934
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: AI in the Pentagon. Now, again it's important to remember

935
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: Anthropic disposition themselves as like the safe and the responsible

936
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: AI choice. And then you find out, oh, and they

937
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: have a contract with Palenteer, and apparently someone within Anthropic

938
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: acquired about whether or not I think inquired with Palenteer

939
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: about whether or not Claude was used in the Venezuela raid.

940
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: This upset the Pentagon very much and has led to

941
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: now this conflict between Anthropic and the Department of War,

942
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 2: specifically the Wall Street Journal here says Anthropics AI tool

943
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: claud was used in the US military's operation to capture

944
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: form of Venezuela and President Nicholas Maduro, highlighting how AI

945
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: models are gaining traction in the Pentagon. The mission to

946
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: capture Mador and his wife included bombing several sites in

947
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 2: Caracus last month. Anthropics usage guidelines prohibit Claude form being

948
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: used to facilitate violence, develop weapons, or conduct surveillance. And

949
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: they go on to say that that Claude was not

950
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 2: just used in the planning phase, that it was actually

951
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: used directly in the operation. So let's put the next

952
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: piece up on the screen. So somebody at Anthropic inquires, Hey,

953
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 2: you did claud get used in this operation. This has

954
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 2: now led to this clash with the Pentagon, and they

955
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: say here this is from Reuter's exclusive Pentagon classes with

956
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,959
Speaker 2: Nthropic over military AI used.

957
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 4: According to sources, after extensive talks.

958
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: Under a contract worth up to two hundred million dollars,

959
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 2: the US Department of Defense and Anthropic are at a

960
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 2: stand still. According to six people familiar, the company's position

961
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: on how its AI tools can be used has intensified

962
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: disagreements between it and the Trump administration. A spokesperson for

963
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 2: the Defense Department which the Trump administration prename the Department

964
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: of War to not immediately respond Anthropics that its AI

965
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: is extensively used for national security missions by US government,

966
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: and we are in productive discussions with the Department of

967
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: War about ways to continue this work. So they go

968
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: on to say, this comes at a delicate time for

969
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 2: the company, blah blah blah, but in any case, you've

970
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: got this Anthropic wants to set out, Okay, here's what

971
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: we are going to allow Claude to be used for,

972
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: and the Department of Wars like, where we have access

973
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: to this product, we're going to use it however.

974
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 4: We want to use it.

975
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: And if you have a problem with that, then we're

976
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: going to go to Xai, or we're going to go

977
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 2: to open Ai, or we're going to go to one

978
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 2: of your competitors. And you can see yourself to the door.

979
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 2: Not only are you not getting this two hundred million

980
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: dollar contract, but we're going to They're contemplating banning all

981
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: of their contractors from using Claude in their systems as well.

982
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 3: It's scary, I mean, at the same time, I mean

983
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 3: this is a long history right of transformative US technology

984
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: companies that get entwined with the pentagony.

985
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: Many of them comes directly out of it. I mean,

986
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 2: the Internet comes down a dartba right, So yeah, I

987
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 2: mean it does.

988
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: Some theories about AI and all of that are that

989
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 3: this is all like kind of cutouts of all of that,

990
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: which very well may be possible. But I do think

991
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 3: it highlights like the fundamental problem around this technology, and

992
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 3: of course, like bigger societal questions like monopolies on use

993
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 3: of force, the bigger issue is that as these products

994
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: get refined for military use throughout all of our history

995
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 3: with the Internet, it eventually gets democratized to everybody else,

996
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 3: and that's when it becomes very dangerous. So when you're

997
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 3: talking about physical technology like weapons, ammunitions, things that can

998
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: be easily export controlled, that's one thing. But here we're

999
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 3: talking about code. We're talking about models. Models can be

1000
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 3: exported us in various different places. So if you have

1001
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 3: this get developed like a suite of technology, let's say

1002
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 3: for Claude, for Pouneer, what's gonna stop Israel or you know,

1003
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 3: Azerbaijan or any Armenia like North Korea, any of these, China,

1004
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 3: like all these other countries from utilizing the same tech.

1005
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 3: And that's when we get into very sticky situations like

1006
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 3: like here, we have a democratic input, we can vote,

1007
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 3: we can have some sort of like Congress oversight. But

1008
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 3: what happens, like what we do with our current fighter jets.

1009
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 3: Are we going to start licensing this to the UAE

1010
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 3: for their use in Darfur or in Sudan?

1011
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 8: Right?

1012
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 3: You can easily foresee this type of thing exploding across

1013
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 3: the across.

1014
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: The world, and we already have seen the use case

1015
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: in Gaza. Yeah, yeah, this was AI, the AI fueled

1016
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: target generation. You know, the theory and some of the

1017
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: reporting backs up. Pollunteer deeply involved here, but not only pollentteer.

1018
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: And we see the way that AI coupled with you know,

1019
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: human beings and the you know, extensive, highly sophisticated weapons

1020
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: that we've developed, how those two things put together can

1021
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 2: lead to just mass carnage and horror. So it's you know,

1022
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: anyone should be should be deeply concerned about this one

1023
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: more thing. Just to the point of where the AI

1024
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: models are today. You can put E five up on

1025
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 2: the screen here. You know, one of the lines that

1026
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: people look for AI to potentially cross as it moves

1027
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 2: towards an artificial general intelligence, which some say that's already

1028
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 2: achieved or superintelligence. Is okay, is it not just regurgitating

1029
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 2: what humans have inputed into it? Is it actually able

1030
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 2: to innovate and push scientific frontiers forward? And so this

1031
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 2: this was a significant result you had open ayes. GPT

1032
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: five point two was able to derive a new result

1033
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: in theoretical physics. Releasing the result in a preprint with

1034
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: human researchers from a variety of universities shows that a

1035
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: gluon interaction many physicists expected would not occur can arise

1036
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: under specific conditions. I don't know what that means really,

1037
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 2: but in any case, this is a genuinely new result

1038
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: in theoretical physics that is being published alongside.

1039
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 4: Especially essentially GPT gets.

1040
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: A byline alongside these human researchers, and so it's one

1041
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 2: indication that we're now passing through the place of okay,

1042
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 2: it's just able to regurgitate previous human thought into now

1043
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: it's pushing fields forward. I know in mathematics as well,

1044
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 2: there's been some of these models have been able to

1045
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: solve complex mathematics computations that you know, the best humans

1046
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 2: in the world struggled or were unable to solve.

1047
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 4: So we are in that place now.

1048
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 3: Keep paying attention. You know, I balance between hype dumor

1049
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 3: and that it's all nothing.

1050
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 2: So I think that's probably the right place to be

1051
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 2: because I'm not even sure that people who are most

1052
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: intimately familiar with these things really know.

1053
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: Oh I know, I talked to them. Yeah, they don't know.

1054
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 3: You know, they're like half of it. They're like, dude,

1055
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 3: they're lying for their own valuations. Oh dude, they're actually

1056
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 3: telling the truth. But then you see scary stuff. Half

1057
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 3: of these guys are resigning all the time. They're always like,

1058
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 3: I'm open letter, I'm resigning because this technology is dangerous.

1059
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: And you're like, yeah, man, I'm going into the mist

1060
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: to write poetry right exactly.

1061
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: Oh dude, what's happening here?

1062
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 7: Like is this for real?

1063
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: What's what's going on?

1064
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 7: Nobody knows?

1065
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,240
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to aliens.

1066
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: Very interesting moment, former President Barack Obama doing an interview

1067
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 3: with Brian Tyler Cowen. Very casually, let's slip aliens exist,

1068
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 3: they're real.

1069
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

1070
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 7: Are aliens real?

1071
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 6: Uh, they're real, but I haven't seen them and and

1072
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 6: they're not being kept in Uh, what is it? Fifty one?

1073
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 6: There's no underground facility unless there's this enormous conspiracy and

1074
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 6: they hit it From the President of the United.

1075
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: States, What was the first question you wanted answered when

1076
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: you became president?

1077
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 6: Where are the aliens alien?

1078
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 3: That was it, by the way, in terms of that discussion.

1079
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: No offense, Brian, but you got to be asking some

1080
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 3: follow ups there. Whenever the presidents literally says aliens are real.

1081
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 3: Now he's clarified his position after a couple of days

1082
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 3: when very viral. Let's put this next one up here

1083
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: on the screen. He says, I was trying to stick

1084
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 3: with the spirit of the speed round, but since it's

1085
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 3: gotten attention, let me clarify he got his call. Statistically,

1086
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 3: the universe is so vast that the odds are good

1087
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 3: that there's life out there, but the distances between solar

1088
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 3: systems are so great that the chances we've been visited

1089
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 3: by aliens is low. And I saw no evidence during

1090
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: my presidency that extraterrestrials have made contact with us.

1091
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: Really exclamation mark. Here's the thing, guys.

1092
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 3: Now, if you're not a UFO freak like me, you

1093
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 3: wouldn't know that. This is the second time that Obama

1094
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 3: has actually kind of let slip something. He knows a

1095
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 3: little something about this topic. Let me remind you all

1096
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 3: of a topic that he or a conversation that he

1097
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: had back in twenty twenty one where he made another

1098
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 3: very interesting comment on the subject.

1099
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

1100
00:51:57,800 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 12: The truth is that when I came in the off

1101
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 12: I asked, right, I was like, all right, you know,

1102
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 12: is there the lab somewhere where we're keeping the uh

1103
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 12: alien specimens in spaceship and.

1104
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 6: Uh, you know they did a little bit of research

1105
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 6: and uh the answer was no.

1106
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 9: Uh. But what what is true?

1107
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 12: Uh, and I'm actually being serious here is is that

1108
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 12: uh there are uh there's footage and records of objects

1109
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 12: in the skies that we don't know exactly what they are.

1110
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 12: We can't explain uh huh how they moved their trajectory.

1111
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: Uh.

1112
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 6: They did not have.

1113
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 12: An easily explainable pattern. And so you know, I think

1114
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 12: that we're people still take seriously trying to investigate and

1115
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 12: figure out what that is. Uh, But I have nothing

1116
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 12: to report to you today.

1117
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 3: There you go, look put it together. He says, I

1118
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 3: saw no evidence that they have made contact with us.

1119
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: That's that's not the same thing as if you can

1120
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 3: surmise that China, Russia, the United States are not behind

1121
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 3: something that's flying around in the sky at instantaneous speed,

1122
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 3: what else are you supposed to deduce? What else could

1123
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 3: it possibly be? Is it always gonna be? Oh, it's

1124
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 3: a weather balloon. It's weather balloon again? Is it CBP?

1125
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 3: You know, screw CBP. Always been a bunch of retards

1126
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 3: with space lasers.

1127
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: I don't think so.

1128
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 3: All right, No, no, no, all the way back in

1129
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 3: two thousand and five, like come on off the coast

1130
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 3: of Mexico, like you get you can. Everything is always

1131
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 3: phrased very specifically. He says, well, I saw no evidence,

1132
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 3: we haven't made any contact. Well, that's that's not what

1133
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 3: you said. Actually in terms of redroduction, same thing there. Well,

1134
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 3: if we know that things are flying around in the

1135
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 3: sky and they can't be explained, then what is it now? Look,

1136
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, you can't just outwardly say oh, we

1137
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: have absolute confirmation. It's kind of remember that UFO report

1138
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 3: from a few years ago when they're like have concluded

1139
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 3: that it is they said something they're like can't rule

1140
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 3: out but can't rule in aliens. And then the press

1141
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 3: ran with it and they were like, well, if Pentagon

1142
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 3: says not aliens, it's like no. What they said is

1143
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 3: they have no idea what's going on. That's not the

1144
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 3: same thing. You can use logical deduction to say, well,

1145
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 3: it's unexplained by human science.

1146
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, what are we doing here? That's my take.

1147
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: I know that you're skeptical, just saying yeah.

1148
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: I continue to have my skepticism. I mean, it was

1149
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: an interesting comment. I wish there'd been a follow up

1150
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: because by the time you have several days later in

1151
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: the ability to clean up the comments and think about

1152
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 2: what the thing that he tweeted is basically what I believe,

1153
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 2: which is, yeah, I mean, the universe is so large.

1154
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: Be sort of silly to think that we were the

1155
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: only this was the only place where you could have

1156
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: some sort of life. But the odds that there's been contact,

1157
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 2: that there's these you know, things flying around and that's aliens,

1158
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 2: I just I'm.

1159
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 4: Going to need I'm going to need a lot more

1160
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 4: than we have versus you know.

1161
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 2: I think in probably more like implausible explanation is that

1162
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 2: this is human technology that we or other countries are

1163
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: testing that the government very much doesn't want us to

1164
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 2: know about and have full knowledge of what's going on.

1165
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: I hear you on that one.

1166
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 3: I still remain very skeptical of that explanation. For example,

1167
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,919
Speaker 3: my friend Jeremy Corbell, he just released a new video.

1168
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 3: Let's put it up here on the screen so I

1169
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 3: can show it to all of you. It was released

1170
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 3: by the Daily Mail. This is a new UFO footage

1171
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 3: released by Jeremy from Syria, but which was shot by

1172
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 3: a Reaper drone in Suweta Province back into twenty twenty one.

1173
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: Quote.

1174
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 3: The drones camera watched as the object appears to be

1175
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: hovering at flying at normal speed before accelerating to near

1176
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 3: light speed and vanishing from view. This is from an

1177
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 3: MQ nine Reaper drone and was obtained from a source

1178
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 3: inside the US intelligence community. You can literally see it

1179
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 3: right there in front. By the way, Pentagon has stated

1180
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 3: that there's no proof. Like I said, of UFOs, I

1181
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 3: have not seen any debunking or any explanation. This follows

1182
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: also Jeremy's release of the mosl Orb which previously we

1183
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: had seen the.

1184
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: Video here on our own screen.

1185
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 3: So I'm just I'm asking people to keep an open mind,

1186
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 3: like we do have video, we don't have any idea

1187
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 3: what it all is. I mean to your discussion to

1188
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: question about, you know, the theory. If you're not a believer,

1189
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: that's fine. I understand that you know obviously it's true.

1190
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 3: It would be ludicrous to think that, you know, we're

1191
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 3: the only place.

1192
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: In the world where life happened to evolve. That's ridiculous.

1193
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 3: Then, But then what is it the Fermi paradox where

1194
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 3: if they were, if there is life out there and

1195
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 3: we were to have confirmation, you have to evolve at

1196
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 3: the exact same time, which is very unlikely, and then

1197
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 3: be able to make contact considering light speed travel and all,

1198
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 3: that seems very unlikely. But you know what, I actually

1199
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 3: think people should read science fiction and putting out there.

1200
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 3: But it was one of my favorite books I read

1201
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 3: this year in my newbornes. It's Project hel Mary by

1202
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 3: Andy Weir. He's a guy who wrote The Martian. It

1203
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 3: was one of the most plausible first contact theories. I

1204
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 3: won't ruin the book for how a first contact might

1205
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 3: actually be might actually happen, And it opened my mind

1206
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 3: where I'm like, maybe it's it's more plausible than I

1207
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 3: originally thought, like, look.

1208
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 4: Science, lets you fare your mind was pretty open side.

1209
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 3: But but I mean that's always been that's always been

1210
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 3: the biggest skeptic. And then I read that and I go,

1211
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 3: this is an extremely plausible scenario under which first contact

1212
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 3: would be able to be made.

1213
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,919
Speaker 1: So just just open your mind.

1214
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: You know, it's certainly possible. Sciencefy is predicted a lot

1215
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 3: here in the future.

1216
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 6: So there you go.

1217
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 3: There's your alien segment. All right, thank you so much

1218
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 3: for watching, guys, We appreciate it. It'll be Emily on tomorrow.

1219
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be on the and Result Show in New

1220
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 3: York City talking about Jeffrey Epstein. But I'll be back

1221
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 3: on the Thursday show with Crystal, so I'll see you

1222
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 3: all then