Speaker 1: There are a lot of times in this house where
Speaker 1: I learn more from my kids than I think they
Speaker 1: learned from me.
Speaker 2: Say it again, dead ass, and it really makes me think,
Speaker 2: not only did I wish that I was like that
Speaker 2: as a kid, it makes me know that we're doing
Speaker 2: a good job.
Speaker 3: Dead ass.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Kadeen and I'm Devoued, and we're the Ellis's.
Speaker 3: You may know us from posting funny videos.
Speaker 4: With our voice and reading each other publicly as a
Speaker 4: form of therapy.
Speaker 3: Wait, I make you need therapy most days. Wow.
Speaker 4: Oh, and one more important thing to mention, we're married, Yes.
Speaker 3: Sir, we are.
Speaker 1: We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of
Speaker 1: Li's most taboo topics.
Speaker 4: Things most folks don't want to talk about.
Speaker 3: Through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead ass
Speaker 3: is a term that we say every day.
Speaker 1: So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts
Speaker 1: one hundred the truth, the whole.
Speaker 3: Truth, and nothing but the truth. We about to take
Speaker 3: pillows off to our whole new level.
Speaker 4: Dead ass starts right now.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take us back to.
Speaker 1: A couple months ago, actually two days ago, from when
Speaker 1: we recorded this. But by the time you gotta tell
Speaker 1: you this. Me a couple of months ago. It's the
Speaker 1: middle of football season, and Jackson has been playing well,
Speaker 1: like he's learned. This is his second year playing football,
Speaker 1: and me, as the coach slash father, understands that there
Speaker 1: is a change when you get from.
Speaker 3: Sixth grade to seventh grade.
Speaker 1: Right, So seventh grade you have kids who are going
Speaker 1: through puberty. Some kids have already hit puberty, some kids
Speaker 1: who have not hit puberty. So the size differential in
Speaker 1: seventh grade is way different. Right, So we happen to
Speaker 1: have on our team a bunch of kids who are
Speaker 1: not super developed yet, like they just not big physically,
Speaker 1: and we're going up against other schools who have kids
Speaker 1: my size. So naturally, you know, it's seventh grade, you're
Speaker 1: gonna take some lumps.
Speaker 4: Kids did as drive themselves to the game.
Speaker 1: Right, So there were some games we took some lumps,
Speaker 1: you know. And in the beginning of the season, I
Speaker 1: told Jackson, you know, I really don't want to coach you.
Speaker 3: I want you to hear someone else's voice.
Speaker 1: But I do have a level of expertise in this
Speaker 1: field because I played for so long and a couple
Speaker 1: of the dads last year who volunteered, they were volunteered,
Speaker 1: you know. So for example, they didn't want to necessarily volunteer,
Speaker 1: but they chose to because if we didn't, the kids
Speaker 1: would have a team. So I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 1: if the other dads are gonna volunteer, they tell my
Speaker 1: mind is will volunteer my time as well. A couplet
Speaker 1: happening right, Ain't nothing going on, so I'm not working
Speaker 1: right now. And two other dads decided who played football
Speaker 1: in college. So at the beginning of the season, I
Speaker 1: told Jackson, look, I'm the coach. I can't add a
Speaker 1: boy you, you know, and I'm probably gonna be harder
Speaker 1: on you because it sets the tone for the other children.
Speaker 1: When I'm hard on them, they can't say, well, coach,
Speaker 1: the value your favoritism. No, I'm even harder on Jackson.
Speaker 1: So I explain this to Jackson in the beginning of
Speaker 1: the year and he was like, Okay, get dad, I
Speaker 1: got you. Now We're week seven into the year and
Speaker 1: Jackson just doesn't have the same level of intensity towards
Speaker 1: the game as he had before. So I'm talking to
Speaker 1: him like, yo, what's up, what's up?
Speaker 3: What's up? And he's kind of beating around the bush.
Speaker 1: And then finally he broke down and he said, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just hard for me because I get nervous before
Speaker 1: the games. And I said, because you're constantly trying to
Speaker 1: be perfect and he said, yes, I'm trying to be perfect.
Speaker 1: And I said, who told you you had to be perfect?
Speaker 1: And he started to get a little bit emotional, overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, well, tell me, I never
Speaker 1: told you you had to be perfect. And then he
Speaker 1: said this to me. He said, yeah, but when I
Speaker 1: do something good, whether it's in practice of the game,
Speaker 1: you say nothing, I do one thing wrong, even if
Speaker 1: it's not my fault. If a teammate assists me and
Speaker 1: doing something wrong, I get screamed at.
Speaker 3: The First thing I thought was but I told you
Speaker 3: this is the way it was going to be.
Speaker 1: But then I had to sit back and realize he
Speaker 1: has to deal with those feelings. Even if he knows
Speaker 1: that it's happening, he still has to deal with those
Speaker 1: feelings three to four times a week. That's not fair
Speaker 1: to a twelve year old, you know. And it was
Speaker 1: unfair for me to ask him to understand that at twelve. Exactly,
Speaker 1: it's not like, he's twenty two and I'm the head
Speaker 1: coach of a professional basketball team. He's emotionally more mature
Speaker 1: now and he understands it. No. I asked him to
Speaker 1: understand this at twelve, because in my forty year old mind.
Speaker 3: It made sense.
Speaker 4: Damn babe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, needless to say, I was hurt for him during
Speaker 1: that conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and will will unpack it a little bit when
Speaker 3: we come back.
Speaker 4: And I'm gonna fight you for making my son feel
Speaker 4: like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, I knew that was coming. Guds, I knew that
Speaker 1: was coming. But I'll explain. I'll explain the whole process
Speaker 1: where we are now.
Speaker 4: All right, sounds good? All right, karaoke time.
Speaker 3: So karaoke time.
Speaker 4: You came out the gate like you I got a song.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I do you think that.
Speaker 3: It's a song? You may know? Okay, let me know
Speaker 3: if it sounds familiar.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: Akuna matata, Oh my god, what a wonderful phrase.
Speaker 3: Acuna matada. Ain't no passing praise.
Speaker 4: You actually doing means.
Speaker 1: No worries for the rest of your days. It's a
Speaker 1: problem free philosophy.
Speaker 3: A COONa matada.
Speaker 4: The best part was aaa a coulaa a COONa. All right,
Speaker 4: lion can come.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, it means no worries. So I'll explain
Speaker 1: after we pay some bills. I'll come back and explain
Speaker 1: why Akuna Matatah was the song.
Speaker 3: For today's episode.
Speaker 4: This is cute.
Speaker 2: I like that, all right, y'all, we'll be back, all right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, So back to the story. You had our
Speaker 2: son out here trying to, uh, you know, deal with
Speaker 2: his emotions and the way you would have dealt with
Speaker 2: it as a forty year old, not even realizing that damn,
Speaker 2: even though you may have explained this to him, he
Speaker 2: still wants that reassurance. And the complex thing about it
Speaker 2: is that he wants the reassurance from you, not just
Speaker 2: as coach, but his dad. So it's like trying to
Speaker 2: It's like the duality in making sure that you are
Speaker 2: you know, not adda boying him playing daddy ball, but
Speaker 2: also to making sure that he knows that.
Speaker 4: You're proud of him.
Speaker 2: I thought you were doing a good job of that
Speaker 2: because I would see you at home when you guys
Speaker 2: come from practice, whether he had a good practice or not.
Speaker 2: You would break things down, you would reassure him, you
Speaker 2: would dap him up we would tell him to have fun.
Speaker 2: But what do you think was different in the particular moment.
Speaker 1: Well that you missed even you said, like he wants
Speaker 1: my affirmation and my reassurance as dad.
Speaker 3: No, he wanted my reassurance as his coach.
Speaker 1: Oh, because when I'm out there, I'm a coach. So
Speaker 1: I said to him, I said, Jacks, well, all the
Speaker 1: other coaches were telling you how good you was doing,
Speaker 1: he said, but I wanted it from you. I wanted
Speaker 1: to hear you say you're the offensive coordinator. I wanted
Speaker 1: to know from you that I was doing a good job.
Speaker 1: And then when I didn't hear it, it made my
Speaker 1: confidence go down. And then when my confidence went down,
Speaker 1: I was afraid to make a mistake because I knew
Speaker 1: if I made a mistake, then.
Speaker 3: You would jump on me.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yo, Like, there's no way I
Speaker 1: could have expected my son to understand that at twelve.
Speaker 3: You know, I was.
Speaker 1: Teaching him a lesson, but the lesson had very little
Speaker 1: to do with football. As you know, I don't care
Speaker 1: if he plays football. This was a choice he made.
Speaker 1: He wanted to play football. At one point he was
Speaker 1: all into basketball. Then he said he wanted to play
Speaker 1: football in order to get tougher for basketball. So for me,
Speaker 1: I just thought this is an opportunity for me to
Speaker 1: use football as a lane to teach him. You know,
Speaker 1: one responsibility to how to listen to what a coach
Speaker 1: says and not listen to how he says it, but
Speaker 1: also to be able to navigate a situation where you
Speaker 1: may be treated unfairly, but learn how to control your
Speaker 1: emotions so you can get through the situation and still
Speaker 1: be successful. Because I know from being a professional athlete
Speaker 1: and a collegiate athlete, you're going to have coaches who purposely,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason or not, they're not going to tell
Speaker 1: you every time you do something good.
Speaker 3: It's your job.
Speaker 1: It is expected for you to make a catch, for
Speaker 1: you to score a touchdown, for you to do something
Speaker 1: is expected. So we're not going to add a boy
Speaker 1: you for doing what's expected. They'll ad a boy you
Speaker 1: for doing what's profound or beyond right. You make a
Speaker 1: one handed grab, break three tackles, hurdle to people, you
Speaker 1: save a touchdown from happening, then it's like at a boy.
Speaker 1: But I just wanted my son to not walk around
Speaker 1: looking for ata boys for doing stuff that you're supposed
Speaker 1: to do because because.
Speaker 3: Then you lower the bar, right, then the standard is
Speaker 3: so low.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that, right, Like bare minimum is like
Speaker 2: we're praising these kids.
Speaker 1: And I'm watching how these children in this generation all
Speaker 1: are affected by it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It's not just Jackson, right, a lot of the kids
Speaker 1: on his team. You can praise them all day. The
Speaker 1: minute you tell them they're doing something wrong.
Speaker 3: I don't want to pay no more.
Speaker 1: It sucks like coach sucks and the coach said I
Speaker 1: sucked at it. No, no, coach didn't say you suck.
Speaker 1: You did ten plays in practice. Nine of the ten
Speaker 1: praise plays you did well. The last one you made
Speaker 1: a mistake. So I'm pointing out the mistake you make
Speaker 1: so you don't do it again. But all you hear
Speaker 1: is the mistakes. And what they say to me is
Speaker 1: I always make mistakes. Yeah, everyone always makes mistakes, so
Speaker 1: there's always something to correct.
Speaker 4: It does sound like you and I'm pushing forty and
Speaker 4: then you were spoiled? Is that your Yeah?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you were spoiled.
Speaker 1: Your mom had a girl to you all the time
Speaker 1: and told you how special you were and how great
Speaker 1: you are. And sometimes when you don't hear it from
Speaker 1: the person you wanted from, you feel like that person
Speaker 1: doesn't like you. But that's not the case, you know,
Speaker 1: And I just wanted Jackson to understand that, you know.
Speaker 1: I wanted him to learn it at an early age
Speaker 1: when the stakes are low, so that he can understand
Speaker 1: it and won't struggle with it when the stakes are high.
Speaker 1: Because my fear was he goes to high school or
Speaker 1: gets to college, and he's been at avoid and now
Speaker 1: the coach ain't out of boying him, and he thinks
Speaker 1: the coach don't like him, and he's ready to give
Speaker 1: up on his dream. Right, So it backfired, right, It
Speaker 1: backfired because he is a little bit too young for
Speaker 1: that lesson at twelve, he's not emotionally mature enough. But
Speaker 1: also he pointed out something and this is what he
Speaker 1: checked my parenting. He said to me, I just go
Speaker 1: into the games nervous because I didn't want other people
Speaker 1: to think that I sucked. Sorry, that's Kadeen once again.
Speaker 1: Guys who always tells me make sure all your stuff
Speaker 1: is off.
Speaker 4: You know what, I haven't opened this laptop since.
Speaker 3: I ain't gonna add a boy accepted, I'm gonna just
Speaker 3: leave I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Leave it alone because then she's gonna say she don't
Speaker 1: do nothing ever right, you know, but just act like
Speaker 1: it didn't happen. Now it's taking to take the notification off.
Speaker 4: You don't know how to stop on my cord do because if.
Speaker 3: The bell goes off again, it's gonna mess.
Speaker 4: Up the podcast is done? Period?
Speaker 3: Are we ready? Triple? You got all that trouble? I
Speaker 3: was gonna make sure you got that trouble.
Speaker 4: He's an old ass text message is coming through to
Speaker 4: I'm like, what is going to.
Speaker 3: Open laptop in a minute?
Speaker 1: What was I saying before? I was so really interrupted
Speaker 1: by your old text messages?
Speaker 2: I think you were talking about when Jackson checked your
Speaker 2: parenting right?
Speaker 1: So what what he made me realize when Jackson ultimately
Speaker 1: checked my parenting style was that he didn't want other
Speaker 1: people to think that he sucked, so me at for
Speaker 1: it. It is just like, why are you concerned about what
Speaker 1: other people think? And he said to me, he said, well,
Speaker 1: when we're at games and I score a touchdown or
Speaker 1: I have a long run and you say nothing, why
Speaker 1: other people watch that? But then when I make a
Speaker 1: mistake and you jump on me, then it makes it
Speaker 1: seem to other people like all I do is something wrong.
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know, he's twelve.
Speaker 1: He has nothing else to think about other than what
Speaker 1: other people think about.
Speaker 2: To say, you know us who are now programmed to
Speaker 2: be like fuck what people think, right, you know, we
Speaker 2: can take that now.
Speaker 3: And we got to this point over years.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely and thinking about just the fragile state that
Speaker 2: a twelve year old is in, right, So thinking about
Speaker 2: the middle school age in particular, where emotions are high,
Speaker 2: they're trying to figure out why they feel the way
Speaker 2: they feel, They're looking at their friends for either confirmation,
Speaker 2: affirmation or you know, it's just a lot going on
Speaker 2: at this particular age. And I think that's why you
Speaker 2: and I and I will say, Babe, like you when
Speaker 2: you're parenting and when you're taking an approach with the kids,
Speaker 2: I know that you're always trying to look at it
Speaker 2: from every angle, and you'll even run it by me first, like,
Speaker 2: you know, do you think that I should approach it
Speaker 2: this way? Or even after the fact, like I handle
Speaker 2: it like this, what do you think? And we've been
Speaker 2: doing a lot of that lately with Jackson, so we've
Speaker 2: kind of divvied up the responsibility. When it comes to
Speaker 2: Jackson and the kids in general, Deval is definitely like
Speaker 2: all hands on sports, you know, teaching them how to
Speaker 2: be a good student athlete, you know, discipline, you know
Speaker 2: all that. And then I'm on the academic side of things,
Speaker 2: and there's some things that overlap with the way we
Speaker 2: approach things. And Deval will see sometimes that I'm taking
Speaker 2: an approach and he'd be.
Speaker 4: Like, damn, I tried that shit and it didn't work.
Speaker 4: It didn't work. But he'll let me have my moment.
Speaker 2: He'll let me have my moment and then he'll interject
Speaker 2: after or he'll pull me to the side after and say, hey, kay,
Speaker 2: you know, I tried this with Jackson and I noticed
Speaker 2: this outcome.
Speaker 4: Maybe you can try it this way.
Speaker 2: Or just recently, when I think about Jackson bringing home
Speaker 2: a grade and I was just like for school, you know,
Speaker 2: and I was taking the approach of I don't want
Speaker 2: to be the mom that raises coddled men.
Speaker 4: I want them to be strong. I want them to
Speaker 4: be independent. I want them to think for theirselves.
Speaker 2: And I'm trying to toe the line right now between
Speaker 2: raising an independent young man but also guiding him through
Speaker 2: and wanting to foreseeing that there's going to be a
Speaker 2: mistake made, trying to like buffer it or try to
Speaker 2: be that cushion, but sometimes you know you can't. You
Speaker 2: have to let them fall flat. And the thing that
Speaker 2: you told me that made the most sense was at
Speaker 2: the age eleven twelve, a middle school age, when the
Speaker 2: stakes are lower, and if they do make a mistake
Speaker 2: or if they do get a bad grade or the
Speaker 2: lesson in that is way less. Yeah, you know, destructive
Speaker 2: if they were to do it when they're older. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: So I've been allowing Jackson a little bit of latitude
Speaker 2: to make those mistakes, and then he's naturally almost understanding
Speaker 2: the repercussions. So in this particular incident, this happened kind
Speaker 2: of almost back to back in the school incident, and
Speaker 2: then there.
Speaker 1: Was a force and there was no football incident. Right,
Speaker 1: he hasn't played bad. He's been playing well. Right, It
Speaker 1: was just me trying to constantly keep his standard high
Speaker 1: for him and him feeling like he wasn't doing light.
Speaker 3: But go ahead, finish your story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I've been on him about making sure that
Speaker 2: he puts his exams in the calendar. We have a
Speaker 2: family calendar with the three of us, so that way
Speaker 2: we can just be aware of like when his exams
Speaker 2: are coming up. I have access to the online portal,
Speaker 2: so I can at any point log in and see
Speaker 2: all of the boys' grades, their progression, all that. I'm
Speaker 2: getting emails from at least eleven teachers every other day
Speaker 2: between all of his teachers, then Cairo and Kaz's, so
Speaker 2: it's a lot to juggle, but I try to stay
Speaker 2: on top of it as much as possible. Jackson, especially
Speaker 2: now has teachers who literally send out like newsletters with
Speaker 2: informations and dates like weekly, you know, And I love
Speaker 2: that because they try to keep the parents involved. So
Speaker 2: I stay abreastive certain things, and I kind of sit
Speaker 2: back sometimes to watch and see, like is Jackson gonna
Speaker 2: let me know that he had this exam or I
Speaker 2: haven't seen him studying for this exam, So what's the
Speaker 2: outcome going to be? And I will say eight times
Speaker 2: out of ten so far this semester, Jackson has really
Speaker 2: been He's it. I mean, his grades are like nineties,
Speaker 2: like he's been able to juggle it. And even my
Speaker 2: dad sometimes says, like I don't know how Jackson does it.
Speaker 4: A lot he has a lot on his plate.
Speaker 2: He's in school all day, he comes home, he may
Speaker 2: have an hour hour and a half before he's in practice.
Speaker 4: Then he's home at eight thirty nine o'clock.
Speaker 2: He's nice.
Speaker 4: Does boxing, Yeah, he does that debate.
Speaker 2: There's like so many different things that he has going on,
Speaker 2: so it's actually impressive to see the way he juggles.
Speaker 2: But there's certain goals that he's also set for himself
Speaker 2: that I want to see him reach. So if I
Speaker 2: know there's certain things that's required that may require the
Speaker 2: extra mile from him, I'm trying to instill that in
Speaker 2: him now. So he had an exam. I've been asking him.
Speaker 2: I knew the exam was coming up the week before,
Speaker 2: so I was asking him, Hey, did you make your
Speaker 2: flash cards? Because I had introduced the idea of flash cards,
Speaker 2: and my biggest thing this year was teaching him how
Speaker 2: to prepare for exams, how to study, how to retain information,
Speaker 2: and try to help him to develop his own system.
Speaker 2: So flash cards, I knew worked for you and I
Speaker 2: we had a conversation with him about that, so I
Speaker 2: knew a week out he had that going on.
Speaker 4: Jackson, did you do your flash cards? Did you do
Speaker 4: your flash cards? Did you do your flash cards? Did
Speaker 4: you do the online flash cards? Your teacher? Yeah, mom, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So literally I said, okay, make sure you're doing your
Speaker 2: flash cards and you're studying. The night before the exam,
Speaker 2: I want to test you on the flash cards. So
Speaker 2: what happens the night before the exam? Can't find the
Speaker 2: flash cards that he made online or can't find them,
Speaker 2: can't log in, no physical flash cards. Oh but mom,
Speaker 2: I'm ready, I'm ready. So then we sit down to
Speaker 2: test him before bed, and he's mumbling and he's bumbling,
Speaker 2: and he's stumbling over these terms. So deval and I
Speaker 2: ended up staying up late with him and like, yo,
Speaker 2: you got to go through these definitions. A lot of
Speaker 2: it was just like heavy science facts, like things you
Speaker 2: just had to know.
Speaker 1: But here was the change, though, because I would have
Speaker 1: got whooped, wait until the last minute and not knowing.
Speaker 4: My stuff, she would have blown my head clear off right, And.
Speaker 1: Then my mother probably would have got the books, slammed
Speaker 1: them on the table, got a pins and say you
Speaker 1: do these flash nights and flash cars, and I'd have
Speaker 1: been there by myself, crying, trying to do it.
Speaker 3: But we didn't do that.
Speaker 1: No, we stayed up with him, We went over the
Speaker 1: flash cars. He was upset, he had an attitude. We
Speaker 1: constantly reminded him that his attitude would not be accepted.
Speaker 1: And he went out the next day and he did
Speaker 1: horrible on that test.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 1: But the thing was him doing horrible on that test
Speaker 1: was more of a reaction to him. Was more of
Speaker 1: a consequence to him than anything we could have ever done. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: because he had his own standard he wanted for himself, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and one thing Jackson don't like is to be wrong.
Speaker 1: So when he told us that he was prepared and
Speaker 1: it didn't get the grade he wanted, now he's proven
Speaker 1: to be wrong.
Speaker 3: So now he has to prove us right and get
Speaker 3: good grades after.
Speaker 2: Its Absolutely, but then it also required to sit down,
Speaker 2: right because he had the exam. Yeah, we picked him
Speaker 2: up from school. I said, babe, how is the test?
Speaker 2: Like I'm excited to hear about it because you know,
Speaker 2: he was so prepared, and he was just like it
Speaker 2: was good.
Speaker 4: I was good, good, you know.
Speaker 2: Like, so we're in the chiropractor office and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh really, he's just like, eh, like brushing me off.
Speaker 4: So I was like, okay.
Speaker 2: The teacher sent that grade the night that night, and
Speaker 2: pretty much in the email was like, there's going to
Speaker 2: be a retest for people who scored under seventy five.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: He didn't score under seventy five, thankfully, However, he didn't
Speaker 2: get the grade that he wanted, right, and I sent
Speaker 2: it over to him, and.
Speaker 3: He's taking it under seventy five.
Speaker 4: He had seventy nine I think, so no, because it
Speaker 4: was nine.
Speaker 3: One grade he got that. He said I can retake it,
Speaker 3: but all I would get is a more Well, it was.
Speaker 2: That seventy five because she said that you can retake
Speaker 2: it if you got under seventy five, but max you
Speaker 2: would get is seventy five.
Speaker 4: So he didn't even qualify for the retake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I sent him a screenshot of it because
Speaker 2: at this point he was on his way to practice.
Speaker 2: I saw the email that came through and I saw
Speaker 2: his grade, and I said, let's be prepared to speak
Speaker 2: about it tonight. And there was another grade from another
Speaker 2: subject that was also low, and I was like, what's
Speaker 2: going on. We're supposed to be aware of what's happening.
Speaker 2: So de val and I coo to sit down with him.
Speaker 2: Now after he comes in from practice, he comes straight
Speaker 2: to me too, because I know Deval probably already prepped
Speaker 2: him in the car to talk to your.
Speaker 1: Mind, because this whole process is about him understanding, first
Speaker 1: of all, learning how to control his emotion, but also
Speaker 1: learning how to deal with confrontation. Right, at some point,
Speaker 1: he may be someone's employee, he may be someone's teammate,
Speaker 1: someone's subordinate, at some point that he has to face
Speaker 1: that authority figure but has to learn how to do
Speaker 1: it with confidence.
Speaker 3: He's going to be someone's husband someday.
Speaker 1: Right, you have an issue with your wife, you need
Speaker 1: to learn how to go walk in the house and
Speaker 1: be like, babe, so what's the problem in the moment?
Speaker 3: Don't walk around it?
Speaker 1: And that's also part of what I'm trying to teach
Speaker 1: him and realize and also learning to that he's only twelve, right,
Speaker 1: because that's what this whole podcast is about, understanding that
Speaker 1: he's twelve, but also trying to create a very assertive, astute,
Speaker 1: emotionally mature young man. Yes, right, so that's what this
Speaker 1: whole thing is about. So, yes, I told we were
Speaker 1: in the car. I said listen, your mom's not gonna
Speaker 1: spas out right. You have to go up to her
Speaker 1: and say, hey, mom, I heard about my grades. I
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about it. And that's immediately
Speaker 1: what he did. He didn't need to run from it.
Speaker 4: He did. He knocked on the door.
Speaker 2: I was coming out the shower, and he was like, oh, none,
Speaker 2: can we talk.
Speaker 1: I remember he's coming out the shower. I was distracted
Speaker 1: too when you came out of the show and I forgot.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't even want to talk about
Speaker 1: this no more. What my mom was on something else,
Speaker 1: but not him.
Speaker 4: He was focused on, which he sure was, and I
Speaker 4: was focused on talking to him so we could get this,
Speaker 4: get this over with, you know. So we sat and talking.
Speaker 2: Devout spoke, and Devout sat along with us, because you know,
Speaker 2: we do things as a unit as parents, regardless of
Speaker 2: who you know, had what or what message needed to
Speaker 2: be delivered or what needed to be hashed out. And
Speaker 2: also too, because I lean on you for you know,
Speaker 2: well support, but also to say like, hey, how did
Speaker 2: that go or how could I have done that differently?
Speaker 2: So we start the conversation and I'm just at this point,
Speaker 2: I'm pissed.
Speaker 4: I'm pissed.
Speaker 2: I wasn't yelling and screaming because I just know that
Speaker 2: that approach never worked, especially with me as a child.
Speaker 4: So I really just wanted to be like, what the
Speaker 4: fuck you see?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 4: You see? What happened? You See?
Speaker 2: You were so sit you were Yeah, you were so confident,
Speaker 2: you knew everything. Oh mom, blah blah blah blah, I'm
Speaker 2: doing too much? Okay, Yeah, and then look, this is
Speaker 2: a grade that you bring home.
Speaker 3: So you didn't say no and act like the sky
Speaker 3: is falling.
Speaker 1: And treat him like he failed all of his classes
Speaker 1: in one day, which didn't happen. So, and the thing is,
Speaker 1: I told him like, your mom's not gonna spats out,
Speaker 1: like relax, and I didn't want him to walk into
Speaker 1: that with me saying that, and then you start to
Speaker 1: spast and then he'd be like, yo, she wasn't.
Speaker 3: I ain't never saying nothing to At this.
Speaker 4: Point, I was just like I was ready to take
Speaker 4: I was like, what are we gonna take away? What
Speaker 4: are the privileges that were gonna take away? Then Bell
Speaker 4: was like can I interject?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I was like, hey, got privileges like that don't do nothing.
Speaker 3: You don't do anything.
Speaker 4: What are you gonna take away from him?
Speaker 1: But I also remember being twelve and having a ninety
Speaker 1: average and then mister Fast, who was just an asshole
Speaker 1: of a social studies teacher at Andrew's Huddie, gave me.
Speaker 1: I think he gave me a sixty five because he
Speaker 1: said I wasn't doing homework. So then I pulled out
Speaker 1: all my homework and my mom saw she signed it
Speaker 1: that mister Fast and made a mistake when he really
Speaker 1: was just fucking with me. But he gave me my
Speaker 1: fifteen points on my homework but gave me an eighty.
Speaker 1: She wouldn't let me play basketball because all my grades
Speaker 1: was ninety and I got an eighty, and to me,
Speaker 1: I felt like that's not fair. So it's like, so
Speaker 1: wait a minute, So I literally have to be perfect
Speaker 1: in order to enjoy it myself. And then I did
Speaker 1: the same thing to Jackson while trying to check remember
Speaker 1: trying to help you through the academics. I realized that
Speaker 1: I was doing this to him through football. He does
Speaker 1: everything right, he does one mistake and a jumping check
Speaker 1: on him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I kind of did the same thing too, Right,
Speaker 2: you got all these great grades. You're doing so well
Speaker 2: your juggle and everything. But then for me, it wasn't
Speaker 2: even just about that one situation. It was about the
Speaker 2: fact that I'd spoken to him about certain things ahead
Speaker 2: of time, you know, and I said, and I've been
Speaker 2: following up, and it's me trying to give him the
Speaker 2: independence to not be on him and do the flash
Speaker 2: cards for him, because man, it took everything and me
Speaker 2: not to go get the rainbow of flash cards, make
Speaker 2: them for him, like you know, color coded this, that
Speaker 2: the third like, that's really what I want to do, right,
Speaker 2: But it's not about my way. He needs to find
Speaker 2: his own way. So the lesson in that was not
Speaker 2: even just the grade. It was the whole process that
Speaker 2: got him to that grade that just made me be like,
Speaker 2: this is exactly what it is. But I feel like
Speaker 2: that was also the lesson in it for himself. I
Speaker 2: didn't have to double down in that moment. I didn't
Speaker 2: have to pull away privilege. The lesson was that he
Speaker 2: was like, damn, mom was right, I should have made
Speaker 2: the flashcars, damn. And he ended up staying up until
Speaker 2: almost one o'clock that morning. That was tired the next
Speaker 2: day and I'm like, I don't want to hear about
Speaker 2: being tired because you still have your sports responsibilities. And
Speaker 2: that's one thing that you helped me to understand is
Speaker 2: that I cannot punish him in the sports department because
Speaker 2: of his lack of academics and vice versa, because they're
Speaker 2: both important.
Speaker 4: Yes, I raating a student now.
Speaker 3: I never understood why moms do that.
Speaker 1: Like the first thing mom says when I was mentoring
Speaker 1: young men, a child has an issue, a behavioral issue
Speaker 1: or something. They take away football, take away basketball. Football
Speaker 1: and basketball are the only things that are teaching him
Speaker 1: discipline right now, And you want to take away the
Speaker 1: two things that teaching him discipline as a form of
Speaker 1: discipline for not being disciplined in school makes no sense.
Speaker 4: Because we were looking at it as this is extracurricular.
Speaker 2: Right in my mind initially, I was like, Oh, it's
Speaker 2: extra curricular stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, sports can be extra curricular playing a sport.
Speaker 1: If your child is playing a sport, he's in a
Speaker 1: rec league and he's just doing it for fun, and
Speaker 1: they're rolling the balls out, pause and they're out there
Speaker 1: just playing and no one cares who wins.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's extra curricular.
Speaker 1: When your child is in a competitive team traveling, he
Speaker 1: makes commitment to that team, commitments to other families, commitments
Speaker 1: to other parents. So it's not just about him, it's
Speaker 1: also teaching him something greater than just himself individually. So
Speaker 1: that commitment in a lot of times those coaches, you
Speaker 1: let those coaches know that that child is performing poorly
Speaker 1: in school or having behavioral issues, he'll get a greater
Speaker 1: level of discipline at those opportunities in after cur after
Speaker 1: school activities. Remember when I was at Prototype, we have
Speaker 1: a report card. Check you hit below a eighty, everybody's running.
Speaker 1: So what it did was it created an environment where
Speaker 1: being the dumb class clown was not accepted because if
Speaker 1: everybody here who is bigger, stronger, and faster than your
Speaker 1: average teenager has to have above eighty.
Speaker 3: But now we all got to run because you don't
Speaker 3: have an eighty.
Speaker 1: Now it creates that environment where being the dumb kid
Speaker 1: gets ostracized. Right, And I've just learned over the years,
Speaker 1: especially when you have boys, boys need discipline, boys need structure.
Speaker 1: And the more I'm learning about young women and young
Speaker 1: young women who are athletes, they've all said the same thing.
Speaker 1: They adored having the structure because as a child, it
Speaker 1: gives you something to look forward to that guarantees you'll
Speaker 1: have a level of success because when you don't have structure,
Speaker 1: most kids are lost.
Speaker 3: Most people are lost.
Speaker 4: That's a fact.
Speaker 3: Think about it.
Speaker 1: When we first got out of college, right, that's when
Speaker 1: structure was stripped of us.
Speaker 3: Like, think about it, from the time you're.
Speaker 4: Schedule a child.
Speaker 1: You see, from the time you're a child to you
Speaker 1: graduate from college, there's a schedule, there's classes, there's certain
Speaker 1: things you have to do that if you perform well
Speaker 1: at these things, you'll be successful. The minute people leave college,
Speaker 1: there's no more blueprint. That's when the anxiety happens because
Speaker 1: there's no one to tell you. You know, that happened
Speaker 1: for me too. When I first got out of the NFL,
Speaker 1: it was like, well, I want to do TV. How
Speaker 1: do I go about getting there?
Speaker 2: Man? I low key registered for grad school for that
Speaker 2: very reason.
Speaker 3: Because you were already ready. You are already I.
Speaker 4: Was not ready.
Speaker 2: And that's the part where we're not like rushing our
Speaker 2: kids through the school system, like, oh, he's advanced, let's
Speaker 2: start him at two at school so you can graduate
Speaker 2: by sixteen.
Speaker 4: No, we're not.
Speaker 2: Putting in college till twenty so he can graduate and
Speaker 2: then be like, what, You're just not even old enough
Speaker 2: or ready.
Speaker 3: But you know, we just did.
Speaker 1: We actually just broke down how we ended up over
Speaker 1: parenting Jackson. Your fear and anxiety of not knowing what
Speaker 1: was next after college is what you're projecting onto Jackson.
Speaker 1: My fear of not being prepared when I was done
Speaker 1: in the NFL and not knowing how to deal with
Speaker 1: my emotions, because remember, part of the reason why I
Speaker 1: got cut is because my emotions. I said some things
Speaker 1: to some coaches, and I you know, it wasn't appropriate
Speaker 1: at the time, and I ended up getting cut.
Speaker 4: He was also in those feelings, but whatever.
Speaker 1: Speaking of truth, I wasn't my feelings because I didn't
Speaker 1: think it was fair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, just a real long story short.
Speaker 1: I didn't like being put in a box where you're
Speaker 1: only going to be the fifth receiver. I felt like
Speaker 1: I was good enough to compete for any position, and
Speaker 1: when I heard that that's what I was competing for,
Speaker 1: I got pissed and I voiced my opinion, and the
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator at the time didn't want to hear my opinion,
Speaker 1: so I ended up getting cut, but it taught me
Speaker 1: that I have to learn how to control my emotions
Speaker 1: and say yes sir, no sir, even when a coach
Speaker 1: is not.
Speaker 3: Treating me right.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm projecting that on to Jackson at twelve. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're projecting your fear of not being prepared for the
Speaker 1: real world on Jackson at twelve, and both of us
Speaker 1: have to realize he's only twelve. Like listening to you
Speaker 1: speak on why you you parent him the way it is,
Speaker 1: and I parent him it's all based on fear.
Speaker 3: Yes, think of it.
Speaker 1: It's all I don't want my son to feel the
Speaker 1: way I felt when I was out in the world.
Speaker 2: Or I don't want him to be, you know, a
Speaker 2: coddled and titled expected the last hole that we will
Speaker 2: go out and recavoc in this world like I'm not
Speaker 2: while I'm alive.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You know it's crazy. We can't.
Speaker 1: We can't parent our kids like that. Like, think about it.
Speaker 1: If we're parenting them through fear. I fear that they'll
Speaker 1: become an entitled asshole. I feel they'll become a coddle
Speaker 1: kid who does lost is lost, Like all of this
Speaker 1: is fear so.
Speaker 3: What do we do when we were afraid?
Speaker 4: We over we over you know what I'm saying over
Speaker 4: So we're almost like like helicopter parenting in a way,
Speaker 4: but like in a different kind of way, right, So
Speaker 4: we're just not like it's not like, you know, we're
Speaker 4: smothering me. Do you think we're smothering him a little bit?
Speaker 3: No, To be honest, I think that.
Speaker 4: I try not to smother because I don't want to
Speaker 4: be that mom.
Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think you smothered him. I
Speaker 3: don't think I smolled them.
Speaker 1: But I think what what we did, in turn was
Speaker 1: try to compensate for the fact that we weren't small,
Speaker 1: that we didn't want to smother him, so we didn't
Speaker 1: even I didn't give him any love during football season,
Speaker 1: which I feel like now now knowing about as fucked up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was so.
Speaker 1: Like, well, I'm not gonna be a hell copter that
Speaker 1: I'm there every day in practice, so I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: say nothing to him, but if he does something wrong,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check him caause I don't want him to
Speaker 1: do things wrong in practice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that he needs the balance.
Speaker 4: He definitely needs the balance.
Speaker 2: And I need to do a good job to of
Speaker 2: like you know. I'll ask him when he comes up, Hey,
Speaker 2: how is practice? Did you have fun?
Speaker 4: Like you know?
Speaker 2: So we can do the same, Like when it comes
Speaker 2: to sports academics, we flip flop and stuff just to be.
Speaker 1: Like you know, or even this is why I ended
Speaker 1: up singing a kunamatata m h. I was like, bro,
Speaker 1: I need you to go out there at twelve and
Speaker 1: play and have no worries like you're you're concerned about
Speaker 1: making me proud, being perfect. You're concerned about other people's
Speaker 1: ideas of who you are, and that's always going to
Speaker 1: create a level of anxiety and nervousness that you won't
Speaker 1: be able to perform to your standard because you're worried
Speaker 1: about everything else else. You need to only focus on
Speaker 1: you and let's think of let's think about it. And
Speaker 1: this is what I've learned to empower how I've learned
Speaker 1: to empower him. Sit down and settle and give him
Speaker 1: a perspective. Right we're sitting in this house, I said, Jackson,
Speaker 1: think about where you were when you in Cairo's age.
Speaker 1: I was in the apartment. Do you remember having to
Speaker 1: get on the train with dad? Remember having to help
Speaker 1: me carry laundry up the stairs. You remember having to
Speaker 1: go parking. He's like yeah, I said, you see how
Speaker 1: hard dad has worked and mom has worked to get
Speaker 1: us to a different level where you can have a
Speaker 1: different level of comfort. He was like yeah. I said,
Speaker 1: are you comfortable? He was like, yeah, I am comfortable.
Speaker 1: So I said, so, what are you worried about? Think
Speaker 1: about how many people in the world don't have what
Speaker 1: you have, can't do what you do. How many dads
Speaker 1: can't be there with their son in practice. I said,
Speaker 1: think about your own your own team. How many of
Speaker 1: your friend's dad can't be there at practice. Think about
Speaker 1: how many of your friends struggling in school whose moms
Speaker 1: aren't up to one PM. And he looked at me
Speaker 1: and he was just like, you know, I never thought
Speaker 1: about that. And he was just like that, he said
Speaker 1: one of my friends when he said, one of my
Speaker 1: friends did say to me at basketball, you know, I
Speaker 1: wish my dad cared like yours and was scream at
Speaker 1: me to get me going in basketball games, because he
Speaker 1: says he said, his friend was like, sometimes I'll be
Speaker 1: sitting there and I don't know what to do, and
Speaker 1: I'll listen to your dad scream at you to be like, well,
Speaker 1: if he told Jackson to do that, then I'll do
Speaker 1: the same thing.
Speaker 3: So Jackson was like.
Speaker 1: You know, you're right, like there are certain things that
Speaker 1: I have advantages of, and I can't stop looking at
Speaker 1: the negative. I said, yeah, rather than thinking about if
Speaker 1: I dropped this past, my dad's going to scream, how
Speaker 1: about you start to think if I catch this pass
Speaker 1: and score a touchdown, everybody's going to be cheering my name.
Speaker 1: I said, do you think that? He's like, now, I
Speaker 1: don't think about the positive. I only think about the negative.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, we got to change that.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, why do you only think about
Speaker 1: the negative? Because the negative is the only time I
Speaker 1: hear your voice?
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, man, break don't get me started up in
Speaker 4: here today.
Speaker 1: When I tell you man, I was like, I was
Speaker 1: apologizing so much, like one thing I've never done gotten
Speaker 1: from my parents. Bruh, I've never gotten an apology. I said, bro,
Speaker 1: come in, bro, I'm sorry, but I am sorry. I
Speaker 1: I you didn't deserve that.
Speaker 3: I'm here.
Speaker 1: I am teaching you to focus on the negative, while
Speaker 1: only saying focus on the positive, like that's not fair.
Speaker 2: To you, bro, Yeah, that's insanity and yeah, and I'm
Speaker 2: like thinking about the overarching topic today, right, and shout
Speaker 2: out to you, because one thing you do is you
Speaker 2: apologize when you're wrong. We both do trying to make
Speaker 2: sure that, Yeah, especially when it's coming from your child.
Speaker 2: It's like, man, But the overarching topic today is, you know,
Speaker 2: growing up in black families, our generation, we were always
Speaker 2: taught to never talkt back. We didn't have conversations like
Speaker 2: this with our parents. It's like, don't complain their parents
Speaker 2: are right, you're wrong. You know, you don't get a
Speaker 2: single explanation. Don't expect an.
Speaker 4: Apology from your parents if they hurt your feelings.
Speaker 2: But now as parents, you know, we're recognizing that not
Speaker 2: all of our parenting tactics meant well. Well, they mean well,
Speaker 2: but it didn't land well when it came to how
Speaker 2: we emotionally developed in our relationship with our kids. We're
Speaker 2: trying to be different, right, and the whole gentle parenting
Speaker 2: movement too, and what that looks like for our kids
Speaker 2: and being tough on the kids like we really try
Speaker 2: to I think balance between what that looks like.
Speaker 4: You know, are certain moments called for certain things.
Speaker 2: I mean, what exactly is the definition of gentle parenting?
Speaker 4: Well, what is it more like the hands off approach
Speaker 4: to it?
Speaker 1: No, No, I feel like it's not just the hands off.
Speaker 1: It's parenting with approach of positivity, not using fear tactics
Speaker 1: or pain or violence or trauma to create a foundation
Speaker 1: for your children to where they just listen to you
Speaker 1: because they're afraid that. When I think about gentle parenting,
Speaker 1: it's like that because back in the day, it was
Speaker 1: if I hit him, he'll stop.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. If I scream, he'll listen.
Speaker 3: That's that's not gentle parenting. That's not it. That's not
Speaker 3: a gentle approcessing.
Speaker 2: Nothing gentle about that. So let's break down exactly what
Speaker 2: gentle parent is. I think it is, Like maybe I'm
Speaker 2: kind of kind of confused about what that looks like
Speaker 2: because I don't even conform to people's social media is.
Speaker 1: Like, you know, it would just be as simple as this, Right.
Speaker 1: Traditional parenting was very coercive. Right, you do what I say,
Speaker 1: you get a reward, you don't, you get punished, you know,
Speaker 1: very manipulative parenting. You don't explain much, just do what
Speaker 1: I say. Get a reward. Don't do what I say,
Speaker 1: you're the bad guy, you get punished. Now with more
Speaker 1: gentle parenting, it's more teaching understanding and empathy, you.
Speaker 3: Know which, which to me, I think there has to
Speaker 3: be a mix.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can't be all one one way.
Speaker 1: No, it can't be because when you grow up in
Speaker 1: the real world, your parents don't have the means to
Speaker 1: curate how the world is going to receive.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you don't know what these questions are going
Speaker 2: to look like for the when you do something wrong.
Speaker 2: But I think that, for example, when I spoke to
Speaker 2: Jackson about his science grade, I reverted to what I
Speaker 2: knew and how I was raised, just like, oh, you
Speaker 2: don't do what you're supposed to do, then you're going
Speaker 2: to get certain privileges taken away, because that's just that's
Speaker 2: just the consequence. Like there has to be a consequence
Speaker 2: for parenting. And I think that there still should be
Speaker 2: a consequence. But what is happening there for sure. But
Speaker 2: what's happening now is that I feel like Jackson's learning
Speaker 2: the consequence and the lesson when he doesn't do what
Speaker 2: he's supposed to do on his part, and we kind
Speaker 2: of sit back and watch that unfold because he doesn't
Speaker 2: like the way it feels when he falls short of
Speaker 2: whatever the goal is.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, yeah, you're right, but okay, but here's
Speaker 1: the thing though, right, how how can you just be
Speaker 1: a gentle parent? You have to have some traditional standards
Speaker 1: because sure most people in the world will work for
Speaker 1: someone at some point in their life.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: When you work for someone, you're a subordinate, right, that person,
Speaker 1: that employer, that manager.
Speaker 3: They are going to use.
Speaker 1: Those same traditional tactics to get you to do what
Speaker 1: they need you to do. Because this is every business
Speaker 1: is production based. It's not feeling based, right, So it's like,
Speaker 1: you do what I say, you get a reward, you don't.
Speaker 1: There's a consequence. That's just the real world. So when
Speaker 1: you remove that aspect of parenting from your kid, that's
Speaker 1: when you get those entitled kids who grow up and say,
Speaker 1: well I don't feel and it's like.
Speaker 3: Whoa wait, we don't give Nobody gives a shit about
Speaker 3: how you do.
Speaker 2: There's no feeling in business, baby, there's no. But that's
Speaker 2: exactly what it is.
Speaker 3: Though.
Speaker 4: Look at the workforce.
Speaker 2: Now, yes, we have a couple of friends who own businesses,
Speaker 2: that cannot even keep employees because the minute like you
Speaker 2: reprimand them, the minute you write them up, they're not
Speaker 2: doing what they're supposed to do, and you speak to
Speaker 2: them about it, it's like, oh, how dore you speak
Speaker 2: to me this way? And I'm going to quit? And
Speaker 2: they're onto the next one. Attention is at an all
Speaker 2: time low. That's just what we are dealing with.
Speaker 3: Everyone wants to be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: Why because can make their own way. They can make
Speaker 2: according to what people think.
Speaker 3: But do you know how to?
Speaker 1: But do you know how do you get money from
Speaker 1: being How do you get money to become a successful entrepreneur?
Speaker 1: You either have to work for someone, which means you
Speaker 1: do what I say and you get your reward, or
Speaker 1: you ask for a loan from someone who's going to
Speaker 1: give you stipulations and conditions, which means you do.
Speaker 3: What I say rules like.
Speaker 1: There's no way to avoid, you know, understanding the fact
Speaker 1: that at some point you're gonna have to deal with
Speaker 1: authority figures. And that's why I'm not big on the
Speaker 1: whole We're kicking the traditional way out and we're just
Speaker 1: doing gentle parenting, especially if you have a child who
Speaker 1: plays sports. Sports is production based, production based, production based,
Speaker 1: like you have to be able to adhere to rules
Speaker 1: and discipline and do the things you don't want to
Speaker 1: do to be.
Speaker 4: Successful and deal with the mind fuck that's going to
Speaker 4: be figure, you know it, trying to find ways to
Speaker 4: motivate you watch you know, absolutely absolutely all right, a
Speaker 4: couple of facts and stats that we have from trouble.
Speaker 2: Still can't get it, like twelve seasons in y'all and six.
Speaker 4: Seven years in Now, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna just let that be you like here on out.
Speaker 2: A different developmental periods, kids go through a process called individuation.
Speaker 2: Individuation refers to the process through which a person achieves
Speaker 2: a sense of individuality, separate from the identities of others,
Speaker 2: and begin to consciously exist as a human in the world.
Speaker 1: That's deep, that's crazy because parents don't understand that each
Speaker 1: individual child has to go through that. And that's what
Speaker 1: Remember when you said you learned that Jackson has to
Speaker 1: go through his own process.
Speaker 3: Yes, I remember when I said Jackson likes to be right.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's starting to get to that point where he
Speaker 1: wants to be an individual. He just doesn't want to
Speaker 1: listen to what you say. He wants to understand why
Speaker 1: and how does this benefit me? Yeah, and if you're
Speaker 1: not a parent who's going to be patient enough to
Speaker 1: explain the benefits, that's true, and you just want to
Speaker 1: them to listen, you're going to find self battling with
Speaker 1: your child.
Speaker 2: I feel like they're all kind of like that when
Speaker 2: I think about it. Even Cairo's like that now. When
Speaker 2: I realize if he'll ask me a question about something,
Speaker 2: I see him in his mind like re saying it
Speaker 2: so that it soaks in and then he may or
Speaker 2: may not have a follow up question. But that's his
Speaker 2: way as an individual of processing what I've said, and
Speaker 2: then he moves, you know, you.
Speaker 4: Know how after that.
Speaker 2: But I think as parents we have to give our
Speaker 2: kids latitude to be able to go through that process.
Speaker 3: I just got my moment of truth.
Speaker 4: Hold it, Holy, Holy, hold it. As kids separate and
Speaker 4: find their individual identities, they start to learn how to
Speaker 4: express their own opinions. This process can be difficult for
Speaker 4: parents if their opinions have been routinely squashed as they
Speaker 4: grow up.
Speaker 2: That was me and my mom for a long time.
Speaker 2: I remember it was just like Mama, like anything she said,
Speaker 2: when anything.
Speaker 1: She anybody that my father attitude stay And I said,
Speaker 1: why because I don't agree with what you agree with?
Speaker 1: How my attitude got to stay?
Speaker 4: Right? But you was doing that at like twelve.
Speaker 2: I did that when I was out the house and
Speaker 2: when I was out the house in college, and my
Speaker 2: mom was like, I didn't know you did that, and
Speaker 2: you decided to do that.
Speaker 4: You didn't run that by me.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, since I don't have to
Speaker 2: now I'm a big girl, I'm eighteen.
Speaker 4: Like challenge, I was challenging.
Speaker 3: You know the hardest part about it.
Speaker 1: But as a child, when you challenge your parent and
Speaker 1: they don't have an answer, so they just get mad
Speaker 1: and punish you.
Speaker 3: That used to be me.
Speaker 2: But but you, but you knew though, I feel like
Speaker 2: you knew that you were right.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was right. I knew I was
Speaker 1: right because no one could answer the question. And then
Speaker 1: I would watch them lose their emotions and they would
Speaker 1: get frustrated.
Speaker 4: My father was Sunday School.
Speaker 3: You got kick and I kicked out of Sunday School.
Speaker 3: I think I told you that story. I got kicked
Speaker 3: out of Sunday School. Oh man, my dad didn't. Damn
Speaker 3: They wanted to kick me out the house.
Speaker 4: Which one of our kids you think would be like,
Speaker 4: is like that so far?
Speaker 1: Like, well, I know, I know for a fact that
Speaker 1: kaz It does not change his opinion or his viewpoint
Speaker 1: based on how we respond. So I think he's going
Speaker 1: to be the one that's going to be like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that, and you're going to
Speaker 1: be like, well, if you don't do that, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be x Z. He's gonna go okay. Jackson is more
Speaker 1: like wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, So
Speaker 1: why why can't I do that?
Speaker 3: Like I want to?
Speaker 1: But I want to do that, though, And if I
Speaker 1: explain to him why, I think he'll he'll think about
Speaker 1: it and he'll say, Okay, I'll try your way. Cairo
Speaker 1: will listen to me, act like he's thinking about it,
Speaker 1: and do it his own way.
Speaker 3: Anyway, He'll just do it. He'll like he'll he'll do it.
Speaker 1: His own way, like on the low, and then to
Speaker 1: act like he didn't know that I told him to
Speaker 1: do it another way.
Speaker 4: Chaz Sorr, I'm laughing because I'm thinking about something that
Speaker 4: happened this morning. I wasn't cutting you off.
Speaker 2: You okay, this morning, for example, Kaz getting them ready
Speaker 2: for school, He's like, Mom, can you take out my
Speaker 2: office so we can I can match because he's into matching,
Speaker 2: like he's getting into outfits and his you know.
Speaker 4: So we're looking in this closet.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that was Cairo last year.
Speaker 2: Literally, so it was chilly this morning, it was like
Speaker 2: forty something degrees and I'm like, you have to wear
Speaker 2: like either a jacket or a vest or something. So
Speaker 2: Cairo pulls out a jacket and he throws it on
Speaker 2: like a little wind breaker jacket with his hoodie. Caz
Speaker 2: has a hoodie on with a T shirt underneath, and
Speaker 2: then the other jacket. He has realized it's too small.
Speaker 2: So I've found a vest, one of those puffer vests
Speaker 2: that have no sleeves. So I'm like, okay, so you
Speaker 2: can put this on. This is nice. So he's looking
Speaker 2: at it and he's just like what.
Speaker 4: Is this, you know. He's just like, this is not
Speaker 4: a jacket, you know. And I was just like, well, buddy,
Speaker 4: you just need to get to school. I said, probably
Speaker 4: by the time recess happens, it'll be nicer outside.
Speaker 2: You can take it off or whatever. And he was
Speaker 2: like I don't want to wear it this Like he
Speaker 2: could just tell he did not like this, Like what
Speaker 2: this is?
Speaker 3: This is this?
Speaker 4: So I said, Kaz, just wear it to school. When
Speaker 4: you get to school, take it off and hang it up.
Speaker 4: No big deal.
Speaker 2: So he's going I see his face, he's frowning. I'm like,
Speaker 2: have a good day, go be great. Give him the
Speaker 2: same spiel I give them every morning. And then as
Speaker 2: he's walking out the door, I hear him say, I'm.
Speaker 4: Taking this off in a car and I was like,
Speaker 4: leave it on til you get to school.
Speaker 2: And then he just looked back at me and was like,
Speaker 2: she go, but he gonna do what you want to
Speaker 2: do regardless.
Speaker 4: Let's don't give a damn. He is so me. He
Speaker 4: is so me.
Speaker 1: A lot of them are. I mean, Jackson has his
Speaker 1: ways like you as well too, Chill.
Speaker 4: And it's like, as a parent to you see the
Speaker 4: flaws in yourself and you see some of the things
Speaker 4: the same habits and your children, and you're just like,
Speaker 4: I am trying so desperately to protect you from yourself
Speaker 4: because I know the things I've struggled with in my
Speaker 4: life and how it's affected me negatively and how I've
Speaker 4: had to work through it and I'm still working through it.
Speaker 1: Yo.
Speaker 4: Shit, that's my moment of truth.
Speaker 1: Child.
Speaker 3: I ain't gonna lie to you this.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I look at Jackson and he's just like you,
Speaker 1: and I'll.
Speaker 3: Just be like, yo, glut blood, I swear no, no,
Speaker 3: for real, for real. I'd be like, yo, you get
Speaker 3: that from your mother? Yo.
Speaker 1: And then I'll be looking at you like you see
Speaker 1: you see, And then sometimes remember how we we'll have
Speaker 1: our debates, and I'll be like, you see how you're
Speaker 1: acting right now?
Speaker 3: When Jackson does that to.
Speaker 1: You, he sure don't come to me and be like,
Speaker 1: get your son, because he is literally just like you.
Speaker 1: So the way I gotta deal with it, you deal
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 3: And when he does it.
Speaker 1: To you, I'll be like, Yep, yep, hit your hit
Speaker 1: your mom with that little k, that little bit of
Speaker 1: k you got hit your mom with the same thing that.
Speaker 4: They got hit with the valve too. Though they do
Speaker 4: hit me.
Speaker 3: With the deval, they do it me with the devil,
Speaker 3: and I be prepared for it.
Speaker 2: Right because your mother said that too. When you have
Speaker 2: your kids, bro, she told she said it before we
Speaker 2: had kids. She said, de val everything that you put
Speaker 2: us through is a parent when you have your own kids,
Speaker 2: be gonna go.
Speaker 4: We're gonna circle them back.
Speaker 1: The ones who challenge me like in my face though,
Speaker 1: that's the devo. You're gonna challenge me in my face.
Speaker 1: The ones who act like they're not wrong when they
Speaker 1: know they're wrong, that's you. Absolutely just ignore the fact
Speaker 1: that they're wrong, and they slow blink right and they
Speaker 1: need to push it in you like yo, but you know.
Speaker 3: You wrong, and they just like that's you. But you're
Speaker 3: gonna have to deal with them. And I'm gonna be laughing.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm prepared. I'm prepared. You know it's gonna
Speaker 4: be fun over here. It's been fun up here.
Speaker 2: This house fun as Matt Matt shows up on a
Speaker 2: random day and it's always sit going on in here, Okay,
Speaker 2: I promise. And lastly, most experts say listen to your
Speaker 2: child's opinion, even if you don't agree with them. Listening, engaging,
Speaker 2: and learning is how learning how your child is learning
Speaker 2: to form their opinions can only inform your relationship more
Speaker 2: positively as they grow. And I think that's a great
Speaker 2: like closing statement because that's exactly what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2: We want to know how they feel. We want to
Speaker 2: be able to engage in conversation, promote that, nurture it.
Speaker 2: We want to hear how they feel. And that's just
Speaker 2: you know, a bit of how we parent. So all right,
Speaker 2: I think this was a good low chat. We're gonna
Speaker 2: take a quick break y'all and get into some listener
Speaker 2: letters after we pay some bills. So stick around all right,
Speaker 2: and we're about you want to do one?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got ten minutes so we could do one. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then we can do yeah.
Speaker 4: Okay, cool, all right, back to listener letters. I'll dive
Speaker 4: in really quickly. All right, Hey, deavalencadeen love y'all real bad. Oh,
Speaker 4: we love y'all real bad.
Speaker 3: Love me too.
Speaker 2: I've been watching ever since the New York Apartment when
Speaker 2: it was only Jack's and baby Row all the good
Speaker 2: old days. We were just looking at old pictures of
Speaker 2: early y'all, and I'm just like, I cannot deal. The
Speaker 2: growth is amazing and y'all are so deserving. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much. So here's my questions. Last situation. I'm a
Speaker 2: twenty seven year old female having love troubles. Ah man,
Speaker 2: I've literally only had three serious relationships in my life,
Speaker 2: and of course I kind of sort of believe that
Speaker 2: I was in love each time, but now I know
Speaker 2: for a fact that I was only truly in love
Speaker 2: the last time. I mean, this person was it for
Speaker 2: me the end all be all showed me so many
Speaker 2: beautiful things in love. Damn, neare close to engagement, to
Speaker 2: be honest. Plus, we had an ironic backstory from years
Speaker 2: and years ago that kind of foreshadowed us ending up together.
Speaker 2: Yet in the end I found out he was in
Speaker 2: others in boxes.
Speaker 4: Repeatedly.
Speaker 2: This person made so many changes in himself for the better,
Speaker 2: just to revert and end up like the rest of them.
Speaker 2: In the end, we both worked through so many personal
Speaker 2: issues together to make sure the other was heard.
Speaker 4: Happy, and comfortable.
Speaker 2: I used to think I didn't do much wrong in
Speaker 2: a relationship because I don't cheat, but he made me
Speaker 2: see some things that I could change as well, and
Speaker 2: I did. I truly thought this was it, two people
Speaker 2: working through any and every all, but the whole time
Speaker 2: he was lying to me, or they were working through
Speaker 2: any and everything, sorry, but the whole time he was
Speaker 2: lying to me. I've been heartbroken before, but man, this one,
Speaker 2: I don't think i'll ever come back from it. So
Speaker 2: for this listening letter, I'm talking about heartbreak. Oh man,
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry for you.
Speaker 3: Sis.
Speaker 4: I got over all the.
Speaker 2: Rest of them fairly easily, but now I can't help
Speaker 2: but wonder how do you begin to get over who
Speaker 2: you thought or knew was your person. I'm literally in
Speaker 2: a season of isolation. While he seems fine. Y'all are
Speaker 2: a bit older with more experience, and i've heard y'all
Speaker 2: discuss things like this or such as this. Tell me
Speaker 2: what you honestly think. Thank you for reading, Love y'all much.
Speaker 1: I don't feel bad for No No, because she made
Speaker 1: the right decision.
Speaker 3: She said he was lying.
Speaker 1: She realized that she then didn't lie to herself and
Speaker 1: remain in the situation right where someone was likeing No.
Speaker 1: She used discernment to say that I thought this person
Speaker 1: was for me, but they're not for me because they're
Speaker 1: not being truthful. It's time for me to move on
Speaker 1: and find the person that's going to be truthful. That's
Speaker 1: how you get rid of heartbreak. You don't hold back.
Speaker 1: That's why I don't feel sorry for like you can't
Speaker 1: feel sorry for people who value themselves so much that
Speaker 1: they're not going to put up with someone else's bullshit.
Speaker 3: That you don't feel sorry for somebody like that. You
Speaker 3: be proud of somebody like that, Nigga, he lion.
Speaker 1: If he made you believe something that wasn't true, then
Speaker 1: that you're not in love with that person. You're in
Speaker 1: love with the idea of who that person was presenting
Speaker 1: themselves to be.
Speaker 2: Right, Could you think about the backstory that for together? Yeah,
Speaker 2: she doesn't seems like the perfect love story.
Speaker 3: Because he lied. I don't feel sorry for her. She
Speaker 3: got clarity.
Speaker 1: Once she got the clarity, now she can make a
Speaker 1: choice for herself, drop that and move on. But now
Speaker 1: you also have that as an example of what not
Speaker 1: to accept. So now you have more information about yourself.
Speaker 1: You're still only twenty seven, you while young, right.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I wonder if he's around that
Speaker 2: age too, because he too may know that you are
Speaker 2: the one, but he's not ready.
Speaker 1: You know, here's the thing the lying. When someone is
Speaker 1: lying to you and we'll be honest with you, that's
Speaker 1: not the one. Someone who really is the one will
Speaker 1: be honest with you, even if they know it may
Speaker 1: ass up their chances or hurt that person.
Speaker 3: We've been there before.
Speaker 4: That's true.
Speaker 3: Right. I know this may hurt your feelings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's ma hurt your feelings. But this
Speaker 1: is how I felt, and this is what I did
Speaker 1: in the moment, you know what I'm saying. After doing it,
Speaker 1: I realized that that didn't give me what I wanted.
Speaker 1: So I'm letting you know honestly, and this is how
Speaker 1: we can move forward.
Speaker 2: Sure, because what it does it gives the person or
Speaker 2: the other a choice, a choice, a choice to say, Okay,
Speaker 2: I understand how you feel.
Speaker 4: At least you're honest. No, I can decide if this
Speaker 4: is something I can deal with, be move on from,
Speaker 4: or even want to even entertain. Right, So I.
Speaker 1: Don't feel sorry for I'm happy she found out while
Speaker 1: she's twenty seven, she don't have any kids, she can still,
Speaker 1: you know, move forward and find someone else. And when
Speaker 1: you think, remember she said, I felt all the other
Speaker 1: ones was the love of my life, but then I
Speaker 1: found out it was this one. When you find the love,
Speaker 1: you'll think the same thing about this one and you'll.
Speaker 3: Be like, that was the love neither I found someone.
Speaker 1: That's why I don't feel I'm actually very proud of her,
Speaker 1: because how many listening letters do we hear them say
Speaker 1: this person did this, and then that and then that.
Speaker 3: Am I a fool for staying?
Speaker 1: Right? Nah, this person already said, I'm not staying that
Speaker 1: person lied.
Speaker 3: How do I move on? So I don't feel sorry
Speaker 3: for all?
Speaker 2: I'm proud of you, very very good perspective, babe.
Speaker 4: Love that.
Speaker 2: All right, y'all, that was pretty easy. If you want
Speaker 2: to be featured as a listener letter, please email us.
Speaker 2: Keep them coming in, y'all were twelve seasons deep of
Speaker 2: getting a y'all's business sound.
Speaker 4: I want to stay there. I'm cozy.
Speaker 2: I'm cozy, dead ass advice at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's d E A D A S S A d
Speaker 1: V I C E at gmail dot com.
Speaker 4: All Right, moment of truth time. I feel like I
Speaker 4: came up with one in the middle of this because
Speaker 4: there were so many good things that we hit on.
Speaker 4: Do you remember yours? I know you had mentioned you
Speaker 4: knew your moment of truth?
Speaker 3: Yes, I did have my moment of truth. I didn't
Speaker 3: have my mom truth.
Speaker 1: My moment of truth is going to sound a little
Speaker 1: crazy because it doesn't only talk about the child. It
Speaker 1: talks about us as parents, right, if you really want
Speaker 1: to parent your child in a way that is conducive
Speaker 1: with them being successful, but not afraid, don't parent your
Speaker 1: children out of fear.
Speaker 3: And I feel like that's what you and I were.
Speaker 1: Doing, even though we were able to self correct and
Speaker 1: check because we always check in and we check in
Speaker 1: with Jackson, we were both admenting out of fear. I
Speaker 1: was doing things out of fear that something else would happen,
Speaker 1: not realizing that what I was doing in itself was fucked.
Speaker 4: Up because we were all what we were doing. I
Speaker 4: think we were forward or fast forwarding, playing like how
Speaker 4: this moment would affect him.
Speaker 2: Later on in life as a twenty two year old,
Speaker 2: for example. And it's like we weren't even dealing with
Speaker 2: the twelve year olds in the moment.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's it in the moment. He's twelve in the moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're preparing for when he's twenty two. But can
Speaker 1: he at least just be twelve right now? Yes, let
Speaker 1: him be twelve and let him have fun for her,
Speaker 1: have fun, fun, fun, fun, like everything can't be about
Speaker 1: just the life lesson It takes away from takes away
Speaker 1: the fact that their children bro let him have.
Speaker 2: Fun, right, And that kind of spirals into my moment
Speaker 2: of truth is like, let's not take the fun out
Speaker 2: of having the engagements and the conversations with our children,
Speaker 2: watching them grow through what we had talked about earlier,
Speaker 2: the individuation process. Yes, there's a beauty in that because
Speaker 2: you're seeing literally how each child, especially if you have multiple,
Speaker 2: how each child is unfolding into the individual that they're
Speaker 2: meant to be. And we're not here to, you know,
Speaker 2: infiltrate that process. We're here to aid them in it
Speaker 2: and just kind of sit back and just help them through.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's I think the perfect way to kind
Speaker 2: of join our two moments of truth. Continue to have
Speaker 2: those conversations with your children, learn who they are, you know,
Speaker 2: try to style step accordingly when it comes to your approach,
Speaker 2: and just keep the conversations going with your children. That's
Speaker 2: something that we didn't have growing up in our generation.
Speaker 2: We can't say that it particularly was awful, because you know.
Speaker 3: It wasn't awful.
Speaker 4: I don't know our parents.
Speaker 2: They parented out of fear too, in a lot of circumstances,
Speaker 2: and you know, they've raised pretty decent humans.
Speaker 1: But the more you learn the better you Like, they
Speaker 1: parented out of fear, and they were able to teach
Speaker 1: us their fears. And so now what's going to happen
Speaker 1: is Jackson's gonna become a parent and look back at us, say, hey,
Speaker 1: mom and dad, you guys could have did this a
Speaker 1: little differently, right and evolved rights evolution.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, So let's just keep evolving as good humans and
Speaker 4: good parents, right, all right? And be sure to find
Speaker 4: us on Patreon. If you haven't evolved yet and like
Speaker 4: signed up the Patreon what are you doing period?
Speaker 2: You're going to see exclusive dead Ass podcasts video content.
Speaker 2: There a ton of family content, yes, the house Man Cave,
Speaker 2: all DAKA, all that good stuff. It's a great place
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Speaker 2: be sure to follow us on social media. Dead Ass
Speaker 2: the podcast. You can find me at Kadeen, I Am That's.
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Speaker 1: pick up your copy of We Over Me, The Counterintuitive
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