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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll

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Speaker 1: be your host today, Emily Simpson with my co host Shane.

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Speaker 1: It's just Shane. You know, people DM me now and

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Speaker 1: they ask how just Shane is doing. Yes, they refer

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Speaker 1: to you as just Shane. Actually today, First of all,

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Speaker 1: let me do a little disclaimer because we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about Diddy and the Diddy verdict. So this

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Speaker 1: story contains discussions of rape and sexual assault. If you

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Speaker 1: are someone you know has been sexually assaulted, you can

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Speaker 1: find help and discrete resources on the National Sexual Assault

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Speaker 1: Hotline website or by calling one eight hundred six five

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Speaker 1: six four six seven three. So the verdict and the

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Speaker 1: Didty trial actually came out today. I read it this morning.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to discuss that. I know a lot

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Speaker 1: of you are mad, upset, disgusted. I have a whole

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Speaker 1: treasure trove of dms of women saying how did this happen?

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Speaker 1: He paid people off. He's a celebrity, so he got off.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is disgusting. Why is he not convicted

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Speaker 1: on the higher charges? So we're going to go through that.

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Speaker 1: First of all, let's just go back and refresh our

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Speaker 1: memories just so we can talk about what he was

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Speaker 1: originally charged with. He there were five counts against man.

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Speaker 1: These are federal charges. One was the racketeering and conspiracy charge,

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Speaker 1: which was RICO. The second was sex trafficking by force

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Speaker 1: fraud a coercion that had to do with Cassie Ventura.

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Speaker 1: That was victim number one. Count three was transportation to

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Speaker 1: engage in prostitution regarding victim one and commercial sex workers.

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Speaker 1: Count four was sex trafficking by force fraud a coersion,

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Speaker 1: and that had to do with victim two, who was

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Speaker 1: known as Jane, and Jane testified. Count five was transportation

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Speaker 1: to engage in prostitution regarding Jane and commercial sex workers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wellt's sum up. First one's RICO, so basically, second

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Speaker 2: one's sex trafficking, yeah, the third one is.

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Speaker 1: That's transport to engage in prostitution.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and then the fourth one is sex trafficking by force.

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Speaker 2: It's also oh, well for Jane. Right, So there's two

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Speaker 2: sex trafficking charges, one against Cassie and another one against Jane,

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Speaker 2: well involving yeah, thank you. And then and then the

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Speaker 2: fifth one is transportation to engage in prostitution.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we all know that the verdict came out

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Speaker 1: and that he was found not guilty on the higher

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Speaker 1: charges of racketeering and sex trafficking. He was found guilty

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Speaker 1: only on the accounts of transportation to engage in prostitutions.

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Speaker 2: Which includes prostitution as well.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's it's transportation across I believe, across state

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Speaker 1: lines to engage in prostitution. All right, before we go

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Speaker 1: into the verdict and our thoughts on the verdict, let's

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Speaker 1: go through. We did do some episodes on the Diddy case,

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Speaker 1: or Shane renamed him Pity.

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Speaker 2: Well that was that was by mistake. Yeah, but I'm

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Speaker 2: confusing Pity the fool. Yeah that has freak cops without me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, instead of p Diddy, he just changed it to Pity.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that works for him. Let's go back.

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Speaker 1: We did do some earlier episodes on Pity if you

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Speaker 1: would like to go back and listen to him. But

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Speaker 1: I think it's important let's start at the closing arguments,

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Speaker 1: because I feel the prosecution did a good job of

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Speaker 1: wrapping everything up and laying out like a really precise,

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Speaker 1: concise closing argument. So the prosecutors triggered headlines last week,

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Speaker 1: when they had backed off of or eliminated claims of

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Speaker 1: arson and kidnapping against Combs. However, when Assistant US Attorney

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Speaker 1: Christy Slavic launched closings last Thursday, she gave the allegations

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Speaker 1: of arson and kidnapping a starring role in her first sentences,

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Speaker 1: naming them before any others. She said, quote, over the

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Speaker 1: last several weeks, you've learned a lot about Sean Combs.

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Speaker 1: He's the leader of a criminal enterprise. He doesn't take

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Speaker 1: no foreign answer, and now you know about many crimes

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Speaker 1: the defendant committed with members of his enterprise, kidnapping of

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Speaker 1: one of the defendants employees, Arson by trying to blow

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Speaker 1: up a car, or labor, including an employee. The defendant

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Speaker 1: repeatedly sexually assaulted, bribery of a security officer to keep

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Speaker 1: damning evidence against the defendant buried, and of course the

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Speaker 1: brutal crimes and the heat of the case sex trafficking.

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Speaker 1: The enterprise is Comb's in his trusted inner circle, she said,

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Speaker 1: and it existed to serve his needs. In what he

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Speaker 1: said went, Slovac referred to Combe's former chief of staff,

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Speaker 1: Christina Korum, his security team and his assistants multiple times

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Speaker 1: during her closing arguments, describing how they aided Combs in

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Speaker 1: buying drugs, facilitated bribes, and covered up his violence. Slavic

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Speaker 1: showed the jury images of twenty seven men that Combs

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Speaker 1: hired to have sex with Ventura, Jane or with both women.

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Speaker 1: This slide shows you just a subset of the strangers

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Speaker 1: who had sex with Jane and Cassie. Slovic said that

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking charge regarding Jane is based on Combe's years

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Speaker 1: long pattern of fraud, coercion, and ultimately force to get

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Speaker 1: her to do quote hotel nights. She recalled rehotel nights

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Speaker 1: in particular that Jane testified about as the most clear

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Speaker 1: cut examples of sex trafficking with Jane, adding that there

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Speaker 1: are many other hotel nights that Jane agreed to because

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Speaker 1: of the defendants pattern of coercion. All right, here's the

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Speaker 1: problem with the sex trafficking charges, at least according to

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Speaker 1: what I've read, what I've studied, what I've listened to testimony,

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Speaker 1: I've watched videos on it. When it comes to the

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking charges, which are higher charges than the prostitution charges,

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Speaker 1: you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and the

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Speaker 1: burden of proof is on the prosecution. The prosecution has

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Speaker 1: the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Cassie

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Speaker 1: and Jane were forced a course into these sexual acts.

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Speaker 1: And they do a good job of painting a picture

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Speaker 1: of women that are coerced by talking about how he

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Speaker 1: pays their rent, that he's violent, that they're scared of him, or.

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Speaker 2: Even coursed into traveling.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know the details like you might,

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Speaker 2: but which could you know? I wasn't their text messages

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Speaker 2: like I'm always ready, or yes baby, let's you know,

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Speaker 2: let's have a freak off or whatever. They would say

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Speaker 2: something that implied consent. Even if you and I know

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Speaker 2: that there was probably some pressure, But if she implied consent,

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Speaker 2: then there's no forcing of traveling or participating.

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Speaker 1: Right, And that's where the defense comes in, And where

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Speaker 1: the defense did a good job was finding text messages,

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Speaker 1: finding Instagram things, finding things out there where these women

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Speaker 1: were exhibiting behavior of going along with it, of talking

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Speaker 1: about how they liked the hotel nights upsetting, of proving

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Speaker 1: that they were setting it up themselves, that they were

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Speaker 1: going through the motions that they were picking out the

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Speaker 1: mail sex workers, that they were involved in the process.

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Speaker 1: So you can't have it both ways. You can't have

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Speaker 1: coercion force and also involved in the process picking out

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Speaker 1: the mail prostitutes, paying the bills, getting the hotel, helping

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Speaker 1: set things up. But the problem is when you have

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Speaker 1: both of these women. I'm sure there were concrete examples

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Speaker 1: and instances where they didn't want to do it and

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Speaker 1: they probably did feel and.

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Speaker 2: All you needed was one of those instances to be

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Speaker 2: proven right one time or they were coerced. It didn't

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Speaker 2: have to be every single freak off, every single transaction.

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Speaker 2: It just had to be one.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is is that I think when the

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Speaker 1: jury hears the prosecutors and they hear them testify, but

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Speaker 1: then the defense comes in and shows text messages where

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Speaker 1: they're saying things like they set it up, they picked

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Speaker 1: out this male worker, they enjoyed it, thank you for

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Speaker 1: setting that up, thank you for hosting this. It takes

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Speaker 1: away from the credibility that they were coerced or that

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Speaker 1: they were forced into this. It looks more like they're

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Speaker 1: going along with a lifestyle all right. Then the defense

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Speaker 1: says they're closing argument. The defense's main attorney is Mark Agniphilo, Agnifhilo.

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Speaker 1: I always say his name wrong, Agnifilo. His wife represents Luigi,

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Speaker 1: and he mocked the government's case against Comb's as an overreach,

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Speaker 1: saying hundreds of agents poured into Comb's residences in Miami

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Speaker 1: and Los Angeles to seize hundreds of bottles of baby

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Speaker 1: oil and astroglide. I guess it's all worth it because

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Speaker 1: they found the astroglide. They found it in boxes, boxes

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Speaker 1: of astroglide, taking off the streets few. I feel better already.

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Speaker 1: He said, the streets of America are safe from the astroglide.

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Speaker 2: So that was that sounds stupid.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know what, you know why it sounds stupid.

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Speaker 2: One.

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Speaker 1: I understand the point he's trying to make, trying to

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Speaker 1: downplay it, like okay, so the.

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Speaker 2: Guy gets it's a sex salobe like lots of people

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Speaker 2: use it. Oh no, he's trying to make it like

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Speaker 2: mocking it, like we're taking guns off the street, we're

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Speaker 2: taking astrograd off seat. Like is it really making a difference? Right?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 1: From the start, agnifil not say his name. I can

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Speaker 1: never get the syllable on the act on the right syllable, Agnifilo, Agnifilo, Agnifilo, Agnifilo, gosh.

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Speaker 1: From the start, Agnifilo portrayed prosecutors as unjustly targeting Combs

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Speaker 1: after a former girlfriend of nearly eleven years, Cassie Ventura,

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Speaker 1: sued him in November of twenty twenty three. That was

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Speaker 1: a civil suit that also remember we talked about, was

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Speaker 1: settled within one day for twenty million dollars. Agnifilo maintained

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Speaker 1: the prosecution was an unjust attack on a prominent and

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Speaker 1: widely successful black entrepreneur. Quote. They took astroglide and they

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Speaker 1: took baby oil, and that ends up being the evidence

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Speaker 1: in this case. Because his businesses are outstanding. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: about the businesses to fine. There's nothing about the businesses

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Speaker 1: to make it into a criminal case. Agnifilo tried to

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Speaker 1: cast the case for the jury as an attack on

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Speaker 1: everyone's bedroom and the secrets of one sex life. Quote.

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Speaker 1: They go into the man's bedroom, they go into the

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Speaker 1: man's most private life. Where is the crime scene. The

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Speaker 1: crime scene is your private sex life. That's the crime scene.

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Speaker 2: He said, Yeah, but that argument's dumb because that can

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Speaker 2: be made with anyone that's being charged with a sex crime.

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Speaker 2: I mean that alone is stupid. Oh he went into

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Speaker 2: his bedroom. Oh oh no sex. Well, no, it's it's

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Speaker 2: what's taking place exactly. It's like going, oh no, we

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Speaker 2: went to this room and there's this a bunch of kids.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, there's kids. It's like, well, it's kidnapping or

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Speaker 2: pedophilia or something.

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Speaker 1: Else, right, right, Well, he's trying to downplay and making

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Speaker 1: it not like it's a criminal enterprise and not like

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Speaker 1: there's a crime going on other than this man is

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Speaker 1: just has freaky preferences and that's not a crime. Having

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Speaker 1: astroglide and baby oil isn't a crime. And having sex

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Speaker 1: and hotels and all the lights and the red lights

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Speaker 1: in the cannabis.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know, and I'm making fun of it,

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Speaker 2: but apparently it worked.

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Speaker 1: The defense attorneys goes on to say it was not

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Speaker 1: uncommon that Comb's like to film sexual events with his girlfriends,

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Speaker 1: calling it sort of typical, you know, homemade porn, and

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Speaker 1: adding that I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination,

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Speaker 1: this is the only man in America making homemade porn.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. What do you think?

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I bet there's a lot of people. Those

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Speaker 2: free costs make his homemade porn, so that but he's

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Speaker 2: not being charged with homemade porn. You're being charged with.

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Speaker 1: Sex trafficking, sex crimes and rico right right still, he said,

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Speaker 1: investigators take yellow crime scene tape figuratively and they wrap

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Speaker 1: it around the bedroom crime scene, your bedroom, your hotel

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Speaker 1: rooms where you go with your girlfriends. Then he gave

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Speaker 1: a nod to the fiftieth anniversary of the movie Jaws,

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Speaker 1: resurrecting a classic line when he said, we need a

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Speaker 1: bigger role of crime scene tape because that's just not

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Speaker 1: going to be enough. Agnifilo told geors that it takes

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Speaker 1: a lot of courage to acquit. He ripped the government's

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Speaker 1: case a final time, saying the trial was very different

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Speaker 1: from any other trial. Quote. I think that the evidence

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Speaker 1: shows that you can conclude that the government targeted Sean Combs,

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Speaker 1: noting that nobody complained to the government to instigate a

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Speaker 1: pro but investigators instead began work a day after Cassie

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Speaker 1: filed her lawsuit. All right, then you know one closing arguments,

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Speaker 1: The prosecution goes first, then the defense gets their time,

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Speaker 1: and then the prosecution can go again, and they can

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Speaker 1: rebut what.

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Speaker 2: You know, it sounds effective though the way he's downplaying

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Speaker 2: I can see, I can see it causing people to think, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, what's the big deal, Especially there was eight

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Speaker 2: men on the jury. They probably all have astrog I

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Speaker 2: believe it.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was eight men and four women were

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Speaker 1: on the jury. First of all, here's the prosecution's job,

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Speaker 1: because we talked about how the prosecution has the burden

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Speaker 1: to prove the RICO elements, the sex trafficking elements. Those

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Speaker 1: are the biggest charges beyond a reasonable doubt. And in

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Speaker 1: order to prove the RICO charges, you have to prove

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Speaker 1: that there was a criminal enterprise and that all these

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Speaker 1: people in this criminal enterprise were working towards the common goal.

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Speaker 2: Which they weren't criminal activity. Is this is this enterprise

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Speaker 2: his record company.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what they're trying. It's called shaan Combe's enter

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Speaker 1: or something like that. And then I think there's like

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Speaker 1: bad Boy Records and things under that, and he has

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Speaker 1: other businesses under that.

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Speaker 2: But see let me interpew. So he has valid businesses

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Speaker 2: that are business that's being conducted, Yes, and probably for

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Speaker 2: many years prior to these charges.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And the prosecution spent a lot of time showing

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Speaker 1: receipts that showed hotel bills being paid, transportation being paid

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Speaker 1: for these prostitutes and the women, uh you know, baby

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Speaker 1: oil and lighting and all the necessities, and then they

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Speaker 1: would show a lot of times that it came out

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Speaker 1: of his his business enterprises, but then it would be

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Speaker 1: paid back with his personal money, so that was that's

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Speaker 1: where it gets money. It's like, on one hand, the

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Speaker 1: prosecution is showing, okay, it's a criminal enterprise because he's

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Speaker 1: paying for it out of these businesses to pay for

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Speaker 1: these freak offs and to bring these male prostitutes in.

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Speaker 1: And then the defense would go and say, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: then he was he paid it back with personal.

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Speaker 2: They're kind of like, it's not the criminal. It's not

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Speaker 2: the enterprise that's conducting all his criminal activity. He just

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Speaker 2: used some of the money and then he paid it.

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Speaker 1: Back, right, so it's not a criminal enterprise. Also, you know,

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Speaker 1: the prosecution put on thirty four witnesses thirty four and

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Speaker 1: it was all to establish a network of a criminal

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Speaker 1: enterprise to establish RICO.

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Speaker 2: The issue still couldn't get the charge.

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Speaker 1: The issue is is that the defense would then come

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Speaker 1: in and do what the defense does. Because I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you know, but the defense called zero witnesses. Zero.

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Speaker 1: They only read some text messages I think like five hours.

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Speaker 2: There's probably no witnesses that even come forward. Yeah, I'll

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Speaker 2: testify that I love the freak outs, that I was

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Speaker 2: willing to do it and I participated.

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Speaker 1: And well the defense, I mean, the defenses, that's.

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Speaker 2: What they could have done, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, I thought maybe they might put on like a

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Speaker 1: character witness or something to like maybe pull at the

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Speaker 1: jury's heartstrings that like he's a good guy or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but they put on zero witnesses a

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Speaker 1: long shot. Their case was basically just rebutting the prosecution's

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Speaker 1: case and taking each witness like, for exact example, Capricorn

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Speaker 1: Clark who talked about how she was kidnapped by Diddy. Well,

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Speaker 1: then there you go. You're establishing one of your elements

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Speaker 1: that you need for Rico. Right, you're establishing you have

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Speaker 1: to do two predicate crimes within a ten year period.

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Speaker 1: So you have to establish there was bribery, there was

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Speaker 1: you know arson, there's burglary. You have to have two

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Speaker 1: of these crimes. So Capricorn Clark testifies, there's your kidnapping,

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Speaker 1: so that would be one predicate act, right. But the

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Speaker 1: problem is then the defense comes on and then she

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Speaker 1: admits that in twenty twenty four she tried to work

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Speaker 1: for him again. Well, so it's like you're saying, I

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Speaker 1: was kidnapped at gunpoint, and I don't know what year

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Speaker 1: it was, in some earlier year, but then in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four she reached out to Sean Combs and want

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Speaker 1: to work for him again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It even if there were acts that were conducted

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Speaker 2: that can be viewed as criminal, clearly the jury didn't

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Speaker 2: see it as the end a prize being established or

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Speaker 2: used to facilitate crime.

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Speaker 1: Right, And the defense did a good job of every

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Speaker 1: time someone testified that there was always some evidence that

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Speaker 1: could take away their credibility, Like.

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Speaker 2: Here's a text where she was consenting adults.

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Speaker 1: Right, or she was setting it up, or she enjoyed it,

302
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Speaker 1: or she said thank you. So it was she liked.

303
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Speaker 2: Being beaten up and pulled down the hallway back to

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Speaker 2: the hotel room. She didn't want to go down the elevator.

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Speaker 1: Nobody liked that. That's about the freak offs.

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Speaker 2: I know, But how I have questions about the elevator incident?

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Speaker 2: You do.

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Speaker 1: What is your question about the elevator incident? Why wasn't

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Speaker 1: in the elevator? It was in the hallway. She was

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Speaker 1: trying to get into the elevator.

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Speaker 2: Do you want me to call it the hallway incident?

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Speaker 1: Yes, the hallway incident. What is your question about that?

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Speaker 2: What is it? Why was he Why was that not?

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Speaker 2: Why was there no criminal charges for that? Is that

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Speaker 2: because a statue of limitations? Is that because they settle

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Speaker 2: it out of court?

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Speaker 1: Well? I think it was because she settled it out

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Speaker 1: of court. And then I believe when prosecutors or the

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Speaker 1: government or whatever read her civil case against him, that's

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Speaker 1: when they were like, Oh, he's involved in all of

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Speaker 1: these things. And then all these other people are coming

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Speaker 1: forward with all these He's had so many civil suits

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Speaker 1: against him. Right now, then I think the government's like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, what is this guy involved in him?

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Speaker 1: What is he doing? This looks like Rico because he

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Speaker 1: has all these assistants and people working for him that are,

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Speaker 1: you know, helping him facilitate these freak offs. It looks

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Speaker 1: like this could be a possible Rico charge.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 1: Finally, a rebuttal from the prosecution. The Assistant US attorney

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Speaker 1: Maureen Komy got the final word with a rebuttal presentation

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Speaker 1: to jurors. Komy began by saying, the defense just spent

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of energy trying to blame Combe's victims

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Speaker 1: and the US government for his lies, his threats, and

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Speaker 1: for his inexcusable behavior. She added that this trial was

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Speaker 1: about how in Shaan Combe's world, no was never an option.

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Speaker 1: Comy said that the defense team has tried to set

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Speaker 1: violence from sex regarding both Ventura and Jane, but quote,

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Speaker 1: if part of the abuse is making your partner participate

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Speaker 1: in a commercial sex act, you're guilty of sex trafficking.

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Speaker 1: She added that the jury only has to find that

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Speaker 1: one freak off or hotel night was sex trafficked to

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Speaker 1: find Combs guilty of the charge. There's your answer. Sex

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Speaker 1: trafficking does not legally require the perpetrator to overcome a

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Speaker 1: no from the victim. It can also involve getting someone

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Speaker 1: to say yes through illegal means like force, fraud, and coercion.

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Speaker 1: She said that Colmbs, in his mind, was untouchable. She

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Speaker 1: noted that one former personal assistant even described him as

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Speaker 1: a god among men. For twenty years, the defendant has

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Speaker 1: gotten away with his crimes. That ends in this courtroom.

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Speaker 1: She said. He is a person, and in this courtroom

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Speaker 1: he stands equal before the law. Overwhelming evidence proves his guilt.

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Speaker 1: It is time to hold him accountable, find him guilty.

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Speaker 1: Now here's the thing with the Rico charges. In order

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Speaker 1: for a Rico charge to stick, you.

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Speaker 2: Have to prove.

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Speaker 1: Two criminal acts within a ten year period that were

358
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Speaker 1: part of this enterprise.

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Speaker 2: Well, I imagine among other things, like the enterprise was

360
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: facilitating it, right.

361
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Speaker 1: And also the element of like a common goal in

362
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Speaker 1: the way.

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Speaker 2: And you have to prove that it was a crime.

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Speaker 1: Right. But I'm saying I think that it was established

365
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Speaker 1: by the prosecution that he did commit these crimes as

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Speaker 1: far as arson, and I don't know with kid Cutty

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Speaker 1: testifying and then cast Ventura corroborating the arson, and then

368
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Speaker 1: I believe there was someone else that testified to it.

369
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Speaker 1: So there's your arsen right there. There's one crime also,

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Speaker 1: the bribery.

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Speaker 2: I mean the.

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Speaker 1: Security card talked about how you gave him a hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars and brought the cash machine and counted it out. Yeah, you,

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Speaker 1: So there's two. The problem is is I think the

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Speaker 1: other elements as far as it being you have the

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Speaker 1: two underlying criminal acts within a ten.

377
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Speaker 2: Year period and then trying to make it but racketeering

378
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 2: is to make it racketeering, and so not to downplay

379
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Speaker 2: anything that he did, so people don't get after me

380
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Speaker 2: because I'm not supporting him, not supporting him one bit.

381
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Speaker 2: But it's it's it's sort of like if I had

382
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Speaker 2: a retail store and I was just selling. I had

383
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Speaker 2: like a mini mart, and I was selling stuff, and

384
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Speaker 2: then I committed two acts of crime and I used

385
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Speaker 2: like the store, like someone came in and I bought

386
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Speaker 2: drugs right, or I sold on one item that was illegal. Well,

387
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 2: I just happened to have a store and I did

388
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Speaker 2: these two crimes. Like it wasn't because of the store,

389
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 2: I was able to commit the crimes or I created

390
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Speaker 2: the store in order to facilitate these crimes. So it

391
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 2: sounds like that's what it was. Like, Yeah, Okay, he's

392
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 2: a business guy. He's got all kinds of businesses, all

393
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 2: kinds of employees, entities, Yeah, all kinds of stuff, payroll this, that,

394
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,479
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and he commits crimes. So it was

395
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Speaker 2: probably very difficult to tie those two together.

396
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Speaker 1: Well, I think it was difficult to tie in the

397
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Speaker 1: conspiracy part, where you're talking about all these people that

398
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Speaker 1: work for him. His employees, assistance, bodyguards, et cetera. Are

399
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: all part of this criminal enterpse, and they're all working

400
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Speaker 1: as a common goal. Took to commit times.

401
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,199
Speaker 2: It's not a hired someone and gave them the title

402
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: of like freak off calendar coordinator, right, right.

403
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: So freakoff facilitator, yes, yes, all right, So after thirteen

404
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: hours of deliberation, what did the jury find? So the

405
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: verdict comes in? It was in this morning, count je

406
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Speaker 1: Rico not guilty. Count two, Sex trafficking, Cassie Ventura not guilty.

407
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: Count three, The Man Act Transportation Cassie Ventura guilty. Sex

408
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 1: trafficking Jane not guilty. Man Act Transportation of Jane guilty.

409
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: The Man Act of nineteen ten is a federal law

410
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: that criminalizes the transportation of individuals across state lines or

411
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: in international boundaries for illegal sexual activity, regardless of consent

412
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: or not. In Combe's case, the prosecution presented flight records,

413
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: hotel invoices, credit card charges, and video evidence documenting the

414
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 1: singer supporting two ex girlfriends, Cassie Ventura and a woman

415
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: referred to by the pseudonym Jane, along with paid escorts

416
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: across state lines for so called freak golf parties. How

417
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 1: does the man Act differ from sex trafficking? While the

418
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: Trafficking Victims Protection Act of two thousand was designed to

419
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: combat what Congress called modern day slavery, it targets organized

420
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: systems of commercial exploitation through force, fraud, occursion, and it

421
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: typically involves traffickers who control nearly every aspect of the

422
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 1: victim's life, like housing, transportation, identification, finances, and the ability

423
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: to leave. Both Cassie Ventura and Jane reported trauma and coercion,

424
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: but they retained housing, communication, financial resources, and career opportunities.

425
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: They were not legally or physically confined. There was no

426
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: evidence of document confiscation. There was no restriction of movement

427
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 1: of the kind of isolation commonly seen in trafficking cases.

428
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Speaker 2: So the difference between the man Act and the general

429
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: term of sex trafficking is sex trafficking is forced or

430
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: cursed or some type of fraud, type of fraud, and

431
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: a man Act is it's two consenting adults that go

432
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: across state line commit a sex crime. Right okay, and

433
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: I think sex trafficking I know I've read this before,

434
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: is it involves underage, so it need not be coerced

435
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: and fraud and all that. It could just be under age.

436
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: Your age would be sex trafficking as well.

437
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 2: Which obviously didn't apply here. But I don't want to

438
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: make that clear.

439
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: Right, are the not guilty?

440
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: Vertical kind of funny that's called the man act. Yeah,

441
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 2: that's pretty ironic. I bet no female has been convicted

442
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 2: of the man act of the man. Probably just the

443
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 2: dirt bag men that do it, that.

444
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: Are transporting women.

445
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

446
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: Well now I don't know though, because this weekend in Vegas,

447
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: I almost got sex trafficked. It was a man working

448
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: with a woman. Wow.

449
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: She might have been coursed, she might have been forced.

450
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: Well well, okay, wait a minute, he's gonna throw that

451
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: out there that you almost got sex traffic You're not

452
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: going to tell the story. You gotta tell a story now, Okay.

453
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: So we went to Vegas this weekend and I was

454
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: at Caesar's with Shane and all the kids were there,

455
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: and then I left earlier than Shane. I left Caesar's.

456
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: First mistake, Yeah I should I should never anywhere alone.

457
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: But anyway, I left Caesar's Palace with the two boys,

458
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: so it was the three of us, and I was

459
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: with some girls.

460
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: His girls, his daughter day.

461
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: So I'm leaving Caesar's Palace and I'm walking out where

462
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: the valet is and there's a taxi there with the

463
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: light on, which means it's available. And I go to

464
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: open the door of the back seat of the taxi

465
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: to get in it and take it back to Mandalay

466
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: Bay where we're staying, and all of a sudden, this

467
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: very tall, large man jumps in front of me and

468
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: blocks me from getting into.

469
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: The town where the boys in the car. I think

470
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 2: you told me this, but I want to make a

471
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 2: clireful of veers. You boys were in the car at

472
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: the timer behind.

473
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: You're behind me, they're next to me. And then I'm like,

474
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: what is this guy doing? And at first I got irritated,

475
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: and then so I reached for the doorway.

476
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: How was he dressed?

477
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: Like plain clothes?

478
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 2: Okay, just regular, not like a suit, no shirt.

479
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: No, it was tall, it was big. He had a

480
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 1: T shirt pants on. Then I go and reach for

481
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: the door again and he gets in front of me

482
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: and blocks me from getting into the car, and I'm like,

483
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: what are you doing. I'm trying to get in this

484
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: cab and he goes, no, go in this other car,

485
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: and he points to another car by the way. The

486
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: other car car is an unmarked car. It's just a

487
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: black car. It's not a taxi. It doesn't say uber

488
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: or anything on it, a panel pan, it's just say

489
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: black car. And he points to a woman that's standing

490
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: about ten feet behind me, and she goes, oh, come on, sweetheart,

491
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: just get in this car. And I was like, don't

492
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: look at okay, No, I'm not getting in that car.

493
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: So I try a third time to go for the

494
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: door handle and he grabs the door and he slams

495
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: it shut and he gets in front of me and

496
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: he won't let me get in the car.

497
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: How far away was she or the car? She was

498
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: about like a car length away, car length.

499
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: Away over back behind the taxicab. And she keeps going

500
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: like motioning for me to get in this other car.

501
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: She's trying to vouch for him, like yeah, I'm a female.

502
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: See it's okay.

503
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: She's like it's okay, honey, come get in this car.

504
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: And then then the taxi driver, who I'm trying to

505
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: get into his car, starts fighting with the man that

506
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: won't let me in the car, and they're screaming at

507
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: each other. So then I'm just like, this is insanity.

508
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. This woman's trying to

509
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: get me to get in another car. These guys are

510
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: screaming at each other. I thought they were going to

511
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: get in a physical altercation. So I go back into

512
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: Caesars and take the boys with me. The boys are scared.

513
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: I go to the valet. I'm like, I need security.

514
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get in a taxi cab and this

515
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: guy won't let me get in the taxi. So then

516
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: security goes out there and it was I don't know,

517
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: it was a woman with a walkie talkie. She goes

518
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: out and she talks to the guy and I can

519
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: see him talking. He's talking to her and he's got shit.

520
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 2: All she had was what he said right.

521
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: Right, So I don't know what he said to her.

522
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: But she comes back in and she says to me

523
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: and she goes, ma'am, he was just trying to get

524
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: you in the other taxi cab. And I was like, well, ma'am,

525
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: let me tell you the other taxi cab. They black

526
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: car with no marking, thought it, I'm not getting in

527
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: that car. So then I stood there and I had

528
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: to wait until that guy finally left, and he eventually left,

529
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: and then the boys and I had to have an

530
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: escort take us out and find a new cab for us.

531
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: Anyway, Veas, what got an escort in Baas, I.

532
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: Got an escort. I got a male escort in Vegas

533
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: that escorted me to a taxi cab to make sure

534
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: I got into an actual taxi and I got to

535
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: the mandol A. But let me just tell you what

536
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: my husband said when I called him to tell him

537
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: that I almost got said.

538
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: Remember you don't remember what you said?

539
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: I called you and I was like, oh my gosh,

540
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: I almost got sex trafficked, and you go, aren't you

541
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: a little old to be? Said?

542
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 2: Sorry?

543
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for that?

544
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: All right?

545
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: I appreciate that anyway, seriously, though, like a for real warning, women,

546
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: be aware of your surroundings totally, and be aware when

547
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: you take ubers. Always check the check plate a license plate.

548
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: Don't give them your name first, ask them who are

549
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: you looking for? Let them give you your name. Make

550
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: sure that the license plates match up. Make sure that

551
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: the description of the car matches up. And if you

552
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: ever get a little inkling that something's offered you feel weird,

553
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: do not get in the car. And I would also

554
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: say don't ever take an uber alone. I would say

555
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: go in groups, go with a friend, like, try not

556
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: to do that alone. It's it really was. I'm telling

557
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: you in.

558
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: Some ways, I'm glad you got exposed to that. So

559
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 2: we can all and when we talk, we pass along

560
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: to our kids. We can all be more careful because

561
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: I texted you know, my daughters and everything, So it's

562
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: like we can all learn from it.

563
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: Yes, And even if there is a woman who looks

564
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: kind and says sweetheart and tells you to get in

565
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: the car and tells you it's fine, I no, just run,

566
00:28:48,960 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: it's not even worth it. Are the not guilty verdicts justifiable?

567
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: This is a USA Today article. The abuse described in

568
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: the Diddy trial was real and criminal, but calling it

569
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: trafficking does not help survivors. None of this minimizes what happened.

570
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: The abuse described in the Comb's case was real, harmful,

571
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,239
Speaker 1: and criminal, but redefining it as trafficking simply because other

572
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: laws didn't offer a viable path to justice does not

573
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: help survivors. It undermines the integrity of the trafficking framework

574
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: and could actually make it harder for victims of true

575
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: trafficking to get the support and legal recognition they need.

576
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: It's understandable why prosecutors turn to the Trafficking Victims Protection

577
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: Act because trafficking cases come with longer statutes of limitations,

578
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: more severe penalties, and more public support, and existing domestic

579
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: violence statues are often outdated or ill equipped to address

580
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: course of control, especially when the abuser is wealthy, powerful,

581
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: and legally savvy. Basically, what this article is saying, it's

582
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: trying to explain why what Combs did did not fit

583
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: under a trafficking standard. And basically what they're saying is

584
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: there is no legal recourse. It's either domestic violence recourse,

585
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: which doesn't actually fit because he is a man with

586
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: wealth and stature and he does use his money and

587
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: fame to get what he wants, but that his actions

588
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: don't actually fit under a trafficking legal standard. And that's

589
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: where this wasn't.

590
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: Well It's yeah, that was the weakest part of the

591
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: whole right.

592
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: But the problem is is that I believe that there

593
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: were times where it was consensual, and then there were

594
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: times where they didn't want to. And the problem is

595
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: is that the defense does a good job of pointing

596
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: out that there were times of consent when they enjoyed it,

597
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: or when they wanted to, or when they thanked him,

598
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: or when they were like, can't wait, And when you

599
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: put that in the jury's mind, that's what the jury

600
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: takes away. And it comes down to the jury has

601
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: to decide whether these witness credible. And even if they're

602
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: credible and they've gone through a lot, the problem is

603
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: is that they go.

604
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: Back, Man, he really won this one. You would have

605
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: thought there would have been one instant Why where yeah one,

606
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: and there was not one. They're saying it was all

607
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: like with consent, right, because that's what the Man Act is, right,

608
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: So that's all with consent. Unbelievable, Yeah, unbelievable. And you

609
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 2: know what worries me, or maybe it doesn't worry me,

610
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: But what I think is now he thinks, see, I

611
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: didn't do anything wrong. I can keep doing what I'm doing.

612
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: And just like he paid off everyone all the time,

613
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: and just it fueled him to keep doing what he

614
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: wanted to do because he can get away with it now,

615
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: he can get away with it here. Yeah.

616
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: Okay. Here's my question, though, after all of this that

617
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: he's been through, do you think he'll still have freak offs?

618
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 2: Well, no, One's gonna give me very few people that

619
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: want to go to something like that, Like anyone that

620
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 2: has a face that's like in Hollywood. Do you think

621
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: they're going to want to go to that and be

622
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: tied to him? No way. It'd be like no one's

623
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: going to Epstein Island after he got busted. Yeah, No

624
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: one wants to be seen with him.

625
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: So you're saying it's more of like the commit public

626
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: suicide around him.

627
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.

628
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: The other problem with this case was that no human

629
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: trafficking experts were called to the stand. One of the

630
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: most telling omissions in this trial was the absence of

631
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: a human trafficking expert witness, something virtually standard in most

632
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: trafficking prosecutions. In typical cases, these experts are brought in

633
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: to explain the dynamics of power and coercion, as well

634
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: as recruitment and control schemes typically used by traffickers. Here,

635
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: both the prosecution and defense opted not to call such witnesses,

636
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: likely because Comb's conduct defied those standard frameworks. Instead, prosecutors

637
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: called Don Hughes, who we talked about in previous episodes,

638
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: a psychological expert on interpersonal violence who previously testified on

639
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: behalf of Amber Heard and the Johnny Depp defamation case

640
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: that stem from allegations of domestic abuse. Diddy's alleged trafficking

641
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: enterprise did not resemble the cloud modern slavery narrative, and

642
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: a human trafficking expert might have inadvertently highlighted just how

643
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: unusual this case was for a trafficking prosecution. So basically

644
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: what they're saying is it makes sense that the prosecution

645
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: didn't call a trafficking expert because if you had a

646
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: trafficking expert come in and talk about what sex trafficking

647
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: looks like, it does not resemble his methodology, and therefore

648
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: it would have been detrimental to the prosecution if they

649
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: had done that instead of helping them in some way.

650
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: So it comes down to this article states that we

651
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 1: need stronger domestic violence laws, and you know what the

652
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 1: defense admits repeatedly, this is domestic violence.

653
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: Well, not only that, but you need education because these

654
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: people need to report it right away. Not wait until

655
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: much later. I mean, how many people were at these

656
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: freak offs that probably could testify or show text messages

657
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: or do something that would have helped the prosecution. But

658
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: they chose not to for whatever reason.

659
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: Well, they chose not to because I think he's a

660
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: scary man.

661
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, that's the reason.

662
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Cassie goes against him and starts

663
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: dating somebody else, and he tries that he breaks into

664
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: kid Cutty's house allegedly, and you know, burns up his

665
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 1: Porsche with a Molotov cocktail allegedly, you know, and then

666
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: Capricorn Clark talks about how he you know, used a

667
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: gun to brand a shit to get her in the

668
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: car and that was kidnapping.

669
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: You don't think this was going to be way more

670
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: cocky now it's a big c I you.

671
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: Don't think so. You think he's going to be cocky

672
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: here instead of humbled by all of this. I feel

673
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: like he, Yeah, he did be more careful now, I mean,

674
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: you think he's just going to keep doing this stuff

675
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: that he does.

676
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: He should He did it wrong. He should have been

677
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: more like Charlie Sheen and has been out in the

678
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: open being like eh, I got these ladies. Yeah, paim,

679
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: they love it and this is all the open He's

680
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: walking with it one in each arm. He's like he

681
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: was public and it was like this is my lifestyle.

682
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: You love me, and he was being funny.

683
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the difference was like he was just sleeping

684
00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: with prostitutes.

685
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: I know he I know, so no one could come

686
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: forward and make it like it was not consensual because

687
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: he was so out there was so yep, that's Charlie Sheen.

688
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: Where's this? This is like no one knew this about

689
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: puff Day, at least the general public didn't, and all

690
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: of a sudden it comes out, so everyone wants to know more.

691
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: Well, no one knew about it because no one talked

692
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: about it because of how violent he is. Yeah, I

693
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: mean he he beat these women up. He was physically abusive.

694
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 2: Well, then maybe I should say that that's the difference

695
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: between him and Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen was more.

696
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: Of a well he was just open and let flag fly.

697
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: But he also wasn't as far as I know, I

698
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: don't think he was violent.

699
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: No.

700
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: Basically, what this comes down to is we need stronger

701
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: domestic violence laws. Prosecutors may have used, that's trafficking because

702
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 1: the statute of limitations had already expired on more direct

703
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: charges such as sexual assault or battery.

704
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's the statue limitation. I think it's like

705
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: a year or something, right, see, whatever it is. This

706
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: is what's crap is he can find the videos, he

707
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: can find the evidence, he can shut them up for

708
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 2: a year whatever the statue limitation is, and then it laps,

709
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: and then now it's over. I mean that I don't know.

710
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: I don't know about one year.

711
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: But that's why whatever, that is why they pushed so

712
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: hard for the rico and conspiracy charges, and that's why.

713
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: They tried to Well, then I would say that the

714
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: prosecution just didn't do their job. Maybe it was an overreach.

715
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe they tried, they got ahead of themselves.

716
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: It's not a reflection of the survivor's credibility. It's a

717
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: failure of the legal system to account for how trauma

718
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: actually works. Many victims of intimate partner violence, especially when

719
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: facing fear, manipulation or public scrutiny, wait years to come forward.

720
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: That's not weakness, it's human. But the law hasn't caught

721
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: up when time runs out on prosecuting real crimes. Prosecutors

722
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: sometimes look for workarounds, and the trafficking Statute offers one,

723
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: but it wasn't designed to handle domestic abuse or intimate

724
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: partner exploitation. I think that's where the sex trafficking failed.

725
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: Was it came down to It's not your typical sex

726
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: trafficking where someone is taken by force or by fraud

727
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: and then put into this world of sex trafficking. You're

728
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: talking about women that were his girlfriend right that they were.

729
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: They had times where, you know, the defense shared these

730
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: beautiful texts between them about how in love they were

731
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: and how they needed each other, and how happy they

732
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: were together, and how they were addicted to one another.

733
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: And it's hard to take that when you hear that

734
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: and you read those texts and then put it into

735
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: a sex trafficking framework. And that's where the problem was.

736
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: Let's get a little bit back to RICO. We did

737
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: talk about this earlier, but maybe let's just get into

738
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: it a little bit more. Racketeering is the participation in

739
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: an illegal scheme under the Racketeer, Influence and Corrupt Organization

740
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: Statute or RICO as a way for the US government

741
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: to prosecute organizations that contribute to criminal activity. The term

742
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: racketeering originates from the word racket, which originally referred to

743
00:37:54,200 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: dishonest or fraudulent business schemes, often involving extortion, coercion, or intimidation.

744
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: Notorious gangsters like al Capone built criminal empires using racketeering

745
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: tactics such as protection rackets, illegal gambling, and bribery. Crimes

746
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: must form a pattern, usually involving two or more acts.

747
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: We talked about that two or more predicate acts within

748
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: a ten year period to constitute racketeering under RICO. And

749
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,479
Speaker 1: then also not just the two crimes, because I feel

750
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: like those two criminal crimes within a ten year period

751
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: were established. It's also establishing that it was a criminal

752
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: enterprise with a common goal and that everybody.

753
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: Was involved, not just there was a business and two crimes.

754
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: Right yeah. Did He's response after the verdict was read

755
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: Upon hearing that he was acquitted on three of the

756
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: five charges, did he got on his knees and placed

757
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: his head down in a chair in a prayer like position.

758
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: According to he started after they read the verdict because

759
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: he was not guilty on the higher charges.

760
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 2: Off the RICO as a gesture of thinking.

761
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: The ice thanking God, per the news organization thinking his God,

762
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: which is the thinking himself.

763
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: He's like, thank you, Satan, I knew you would, you

764
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 2: would save me. Now let's continue the work. Okay.

765
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: Comb's family stood in the courtroom slapping, clapping, not slapping. Sorry,

766
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 1: they were clapping. Nobody was slapping anybody. Combe's family stood

767
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: in the courtroom clapping and cheering for the music Mogul's fate.

768
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: The defense attorneys hugged each other while Comb's hugged lords.

769
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: Okay, this is the problem. So his daughters, I know,

770
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: at one point, were at the trial, right.

771
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: They were there in the very beginning.

772
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 2: So get this, what's he going to do? Tell his dollars, No, no, no,

773
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: it wasn't criminal. All my freak offs and my behavior

774
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: and urinating in people's mouths or whatever he did.

775
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: I think that was a sex workers whatever.

776
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: Whatever. He's telling his girls.

777
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: Babe, it's all okay.

778
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: It was consensual. So I'm your daddy, it's okay. I mean,

779
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: so you're saying it's still bad, and they're they're cheering, Yay,

780
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: he didn't it wasn't criminal. They all want he's just

781
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: a freak. I mean, that's that's what they're saying.

782
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: I don't I couldn't even understand why his kids were

783
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, even though they were there in the beginning.

784
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: It was probably a tactic.

785
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: They were there was a tactic.

786
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 2: To tug at the jury's hearts, like saying, yeah, like he's.

787
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: A father, but but is that something I mean, is

788
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: that something that you want your.

789
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: No? But I mean not that they couldn't see it

790
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: in the public, you know, you know, tabloids and everything.

791
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying, is what's he gonna do?

792
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: He tells his daughters like and his sons, Yeah, I

793
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: did all those things, but it was you know, I'm

794
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: just a freak. I'm not a criminal.

795
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: Well that I mean, that's basically that's basically the defense

796
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: is closing argument.

797
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 2: He tells kids that he can't go home, be like, no,

798
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 2: not really, I didn't do any of that, all right.

799
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: So what happens next? Now that Comb's verdicts has been delivered,

800
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: The US District Judge are An Aaron Supermanian will review

801
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: both the prosecution and defences submitted sentencing recommendations. Next, a

802
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: probation department will offer a sentencing recommendation after their review

803
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: of the case. The Department will consider multiple factors, including

804
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: Comb's behavior while being detained throughout his federal trial, and

805
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: the fact that this is his first conviction of this

806
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: type of charge. Okay, first of all, this is his first.

807
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: Cons I mean, that's that's stupid, because like, hey, you're

808
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: on it was my first murder. Like, seriously, cut me

809
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: a break. It was my first.

810
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: Okay, it's his first conviction. But we know that this

811
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: has been going back since like the nineties.

812
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: And there's also this is an opportunity where the judge,

813
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what they'll do, but they have an

814
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: opportunity to give them the max. Like, you know what,

815
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: you didn't get convicted all these crimes, but you're a

816
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: nut and you're a freak and you're a menace to society.

817
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: And they put him what's the max he could get?

818
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: The max is twenty years, so it will be ten

819
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: years on each count. So the max that he could

820
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: get his.

821
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: Twenty years, which I'm not saying he's gonna get that,

822
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: he's not likely.

823
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 1: The judge will then review that recommendation until his sentencing hearing.

824
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: Comb's defense team has requested that he'd be released on

825
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 1: a million dollars bond. They also requested a bail package

826
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: in which she willingly surrenders his passport and restricts his

827
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: travel to Florida, California, New York, and New Jersey. However,

828
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: the judge denied Shawancombe's bail. He said that detention is

829
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: required based on Combe's conviction. He did not hear any

830
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: arguments from the lawyers. The defendant's violence was starkly depicted

831
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: in the twenty sixteen Intercontinental video, the judge said, referencing

832
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: the hotel security footage that showed him physically assaulting Cassie Venturing.

833
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: The judge called Comb's domestic violence a quote propensity for violence.

834
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: It is impossible for the defendant to demonstrate that he

835
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: possesses no danger to the community. So that's why his

836
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:38,479
Speaker 1: bail was denied.

837
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: Because he sounds so privileged. You're like, oh, I only

838
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: travel these four states where I have big homes. I mean,

839
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 2: I'll only go to my mansions, right, wasn't it didn't

840
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: he also say, like the attorney said, he wouldn't, he

841
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't engage with prostitution. I saw that somewhere. I'm like, well,

842
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: I'd hope not. That's like criminal activity and not supposed

843
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 2: to be doing that.

844
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like he won't sleep with prostitutes.

845
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: Whatever, I should make it like, okay, fine, you want

846
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: out on bail. You're gonna live in this little apartment.

847
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 2: You're gonna live on minimum wage. Oh, you have no

848
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: contact with anyone.

849
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: If you don't get prostitutes or free and money, right,

850
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: you gotta live.

851
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: Like now, do you want to get out? Actually, that's

852
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: where he is now, he's going to sell. That's what

853
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: he's still.

854
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: The US District Judge Aaron Supermanian Setcomb sentencing on two

855
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: counts of transportation to engage in prostitution for October third

856
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: at ten am. So he is still in prison. He

857
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: is going to remain there until October third. He then

858
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: will be sentenced. My guess is he'll get five years.

859
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 2: Well, he's already served how much time.

860
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 1: I think it's over a year now.

861
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: I think it was ten months I saw this morning. Yeah,

862
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: so it's ten months.

863
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: He'll get time.

864
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: Ser so he'll get Yeah, that'll count, right, I don't know,

865
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna find out, is it which way

866
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: is the judge going to go? Or is it. I

867
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 2: bet the judge is probably gonna just give him like

868
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 2: a year or two.

869
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: You think a year or two.

870
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, these charges aren't really that horrific.

871
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: They're not paper any But.

872
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: Also, the judge did sit there for six weeks or

873
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: eight week however many weeks it was, and listened to

874
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: testimony after testimony of the drug.

875
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, but how long has this judge been on the bench.

876
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: If he had been on there for twenty years, he's

877
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: heard it all, and so it's not shocked.

878
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if he's seen it all. Because

879
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: they showed videos of the freak offs.

880
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: Oh they did, yeh.

881
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: So, and let me tell you this. This is interesting

882
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: because I think this is interesting to talk about. The

883
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: prosecution showed small clips of the freak offs, small clips

884
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 1: that the jury's got to see the jury. The defense

885
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: showed a forty minute long clip of a freak off.

886
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: Now what do you think they were doing?

887
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: Who's they the defense?

888
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: What's the difference? Why is the prosecution showing short.

889
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 2: Little cud They probably show what works for the prosecution,

890
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: and then the forty minute shows everyone going this is

891
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: the best party ever, we love coming here or whatever.

892
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: They're saying, so it shows consent.

893
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: Right, So the defense showing a long freak off of

894
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: forty minute freak off, it's going to give you all

895
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: this background and context.

896
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: In fact, it's even worse because then it's like, Oh,

897
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 2: the prosecution's being selective in what they're showing us. What

898
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: else are they not showing us? So it looked even

899
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 2: worse if the prosecutor showed a few clips and then

900
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 2: they say, no, let's play the whole thing.

901
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, are those going to be released?

902
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: Would they can be on YouTube? Would you like?

903
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: No?

904
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: So I want I just want to know what's going on.

905
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, here they obviously there they were.

906
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: The court was closed. But I saw drawings and it

907
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: showed the jurors, you know, watching you know, I don't tell.

908
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: Me you're going to get anything out of the paintings. No,

909
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: but paint a freak off, you know, it's like, look,

910
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: it's oil painting. It's like a freak off.

911
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 1: No, they didn't paint the freak offs, but they showed

912
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: images that they, you know, that the artists had painted

913
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: of like the jury looking you know, and looking at it.

914
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: And then I watched someone giving their their take because

915
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: they were in the courtroom when it was going on,

916
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: and in my mind, I'm thinking, how awkward, you know,

917
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: how awkward is that that you're sitting there and you're

918
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: on the jury and you're watching, Like, first of all,

919
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to even visualize what these freak

920
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: offs are. I mean, all the baby oil and the

921
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: astro glide in the I bet Sean Combs was sitting there, gone,

922
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I remember that day.

923
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: That was a good one.

924
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: And they're just watching it like you're just who took

925
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: the videos? I don't. I'm probably an assistant. It's probably

926
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: one of the freak Off employees that you were talking about.

927
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: There's probably the Freakoff Department's archived.

928
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: Yes, So I just I cannot. I was so uncomfortable

929
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: thinking about the jury just sitting there for forty minutes

930
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: watching the porn. I know, in a.

931
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: Courtroom with a job, you were going to have to

932
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 2: take a light deitecture one day, like have you ever

933
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: seen porn?

934
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: He's like, uh, does Dinny's trial account?

935
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: What if they go home and now they're like, you know,

936
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: like it like having regular like sex with their wife. Oh,

937
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: they're not the same, Like now they're what if they

938
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 2: all come home and they're like ordering baby oil, Like

939
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: it's changed their perspective on things. I don't know, but

940
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: I just got an immune to it.

941
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: It was awkward for me to think about the jury

942
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: watching a forty minute clip.

943
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: Or the sonographer the snoga sitting there like typing it

944
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 2: all out, you know, no idea.

945
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just wrap up.

946
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: The bailiffs were probably all signing up like I want Tuesday. No,

947
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: you get you know, I want Tuesday. That's why they're

948
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: going to show the videos. The bailiffs, Oh yeah, you're

949
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: all about this. I don't know. Well, they probably watch

950
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 2: a bunch of boring They probably go to a bunch

951
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: of boring criminal charges. All right, So all right, so

952
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: is he going to jail or what?

953
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: I think he's going to serve time? Yes, but a

954
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: lot of time.

955
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 2: Now years, let's predict. You think five years, five years,

956
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, I sures hope I'm wrong. Two years. So

957
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 2: what do you think? When is it? October third? Is

958
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: the sentencing hearing? Yeah?

959
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: All right, I know just space of on my DMS

960
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: that everyone is very upset by this verdict, and I

961
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: think it's important to just distinguish between morality and legality,

962
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: and I think we'll just end it with that. Clearly,

963
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: Diddy is not a moral man. No, he's not an

964
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: upstanding citizen. He is violent, He is atrocious. He should

965
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: not be walking amongst us. I think he should be

966
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: in prison. That's just my personal thought. I don't think.

967
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: I think he uses his wealth and power to intimidate,

968
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: to force. He's violent. I you know that nineteen ninety

969
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: nine shooting. I'm sure he was involved and he got

970
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: out of the yeah, oh yeah. I think he's been,

971
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, involved in criminal activity.

972
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 2: And what he wants to do in that case. We

973
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: hope he serves some time. We hope the civil suits

974
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: kind of drain him, and hopefully no one really wants

975
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: associate themselves with him anymore. I mean, it's not it's

976
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 2: like he said, it's legally Burnette, it's not morally Burnette.

977
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: It's not moral Brunette. So that is the difference. That

978
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: is why the verdict is the way it is the

979
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: letter of the law. At the end of the day,

980
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 1: I don't think the elements were met for the rico

981
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: charges and for the sex trafficking. The article that we

982
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: talked about was a really good analysis of why what

983
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: he did didn't fit under sex trafficking and then why

984
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: the domestic abuse statutes don't work because of the Statute

985
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: of limitations, and so he fell into the middle of

986
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: that and he just slipped through the cracks.

987
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 2: Are you going to get canceled like all his music?

988
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 2: Like Bill Cosby? You can't, you can't watch the Cosby Show,

989
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 2: you can't do anything. I mean, he should. I know,

990
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 2: they should have they started that already, do you know.

991
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't ask the canceling department, apartment.

992
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: I'll work on that. But anyway, again, just to reiterate

993
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: the difference between moral and legal, this was more the

994
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: people are disgusted because this is more of a moral issue.

995
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: And for what it's worth, he's still in jail right

996
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: now and he is, so we will follow it and

997
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: if any if there's anything else that comes out, we'll

998
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 1: definitely talk about it. But we will follow it until

999
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: October third and see what the judge sentence him.

1000
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: So there you go.

1001
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 1: All right, let's get a little bit into Brian Coberger

1002
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: because a lot of you have been reaching out to

1003
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: me about that. In the Idaho murders, if you have

1004
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: not listened, you can go back and find. I mean

1005
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: I think you can go back and find. We did

1006
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 1: an episode on the Idaho murders, which I actually enjoyed

1007
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: doing that episode because it's so it was so old.

1008
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 2: Well, it a evidence, It was a lot of evidence

1009
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 2: to discuss.

1010
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: It was very I feel like we did a very

1011
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: detailed analysis. We talked about it, We talked about timeline

1012
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: and everything. So Brian Coberger was supposed to go on

1013
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: to trial in August, but apparently I think this was

1014
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: yesterday he pled guilty. So Brian Coberger, the thirty year

1015
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: old criminal justice PhD student charged with the murders of

1016
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students back in twenty twenty two,

1017
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: admitted to the crimes in court on Wednesday, July second,

1018
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: before formally entering a guilty plea. Remember, he was arrested

1019
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: back in December of twenty twenty two in Pennsylvania after

1020
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: forensic evidence linked him to the murders, including DNA found

1021
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: on a knife sheath at the crime scene and cell

1022
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: phone data placing him near the victim's home multiple times.

1023
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: Remember we talked about the knife sheaf they that was

1024
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: left behind. It had DNA on it. They used the

1025
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: DNA to they ran it through those to.

1026
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 2: A system like the familial like DNA system.

1027
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they got a hit on his

1028
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 1: dad and then they and then I remember they went

1029
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: to his residence and they went through the trash right

1030
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,959
Speaker 1: to get his DNA and then that's how they linked

1031
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: him to the crimes. Also, the cell phone data showed

1032
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: that he had driven by their home multiple times, phone

1033
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: and things like that. As part of his plea deal,

1034
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: Coburger pleaded guilty to four counts of first degree murder

1035
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: and the stabbings of Ethan, Xanna Madison, and Kayley, who

1036
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: were killed in their home. This was a college house

1037
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: in Moscow, Idaho, during the early morning hours of November thirteenth,

1038
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. He was also charged with one count

1039
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 1: of burglary. Coburger faces up to four consecutive life sentences

1040
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: without the possibility a parole, one for each murder charge

1041
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: and a ten year sentence for the burglary charge. With

1042
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: this deal, Coburger gives up all rights to appeal, making

1043
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: the sentences final.

1044
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: Uh, he's never coming out then, right, Oh, no, he never.

1045
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 2: If he pled guilty, that means he knew. I mean,

1046
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: he is his defense duty. He's probably told him, there's

1047
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 2: so much evidence against you. Yeah, you're screwed, and the

1048
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: only thing you can do is try to not get

1049
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 2: the death penalty.

1050
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: If Coburger was convicted a trial, prosecutors were seeking the

1051
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: death penalty, likely by firing squad, making the stakes extremely high.

1052
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: Coburger's defense pushed for delays, tried to block most of

1053
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: the prosecution's evidence against him, and even suggested a list

1054
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 1: of alternative perpetrators who they claim could have committed the killings,

1055
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: but the judge denied most of their motions, allowing a

1056
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: tidal wave of evidence to be presented against Coburger at

1057
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: his trial, which was scheduled for next month. I think

1058
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: a lot of these motions that they were filing try

1059
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: to get evidence withheld. None of it stood stood, and

1060
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: I think that's when they were like, look like the

1061
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: mountain of evidence against.

1062
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: You is, Yeah, you're no Diddy Combs, but it's.

1063
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 1: A lot, so you might want to take a complete

1064
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: deal good. There was overwhelming evidence against Coburger. Prosecutors had

1065
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: amassed DNA evidence, including the knife sheet with his DNA

1066
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: cell phone geolocation data linking him to the crime scene,

1067
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: Amazon purchase history that showed he bought the knife and

1068
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: sharpener a few months before the murders, and video footage

1069
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: of a car that looked just like his circling the

1070
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 1: home of the victims. I don't remember which college student.

1071
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: But she also saw him. Remember he had the black

1072
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: mask on and she saw him in the house and

1073
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: she said he had the bushy eyebrows. Then he took

1074
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,399
Speaker 1: that selfie the next morning, Yeah, which the prosecution wanted

1075
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: to enter that showed that he had bushy eyebrows, and

1076
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: I know the defense tried to suppress that. They got

1077
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: it in. Also, remember he said he was like, what

1078
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: did you say? He liked to look at stars or something,

1079
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: and that's why he was driving around at three am

1080
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: around their house like he was a stargazer.

1081
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 2: Or something like that.

1082
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 1: The plea was accepted on July second, twenty twenty five

1083
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: by Judge Steven Hipler. He will formally sentence Coburger on

1084
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: July twenty third and Boise, Idaho. The sentencing is expected

1085
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: to take one day and victim impact statements will be

1086
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: read at that time. I don't know what do you

1087
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: think about someone like that? Being able to take a

1088
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: plea deal. I mean, I understand that it alleviates the

1089
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: cost on the state on the court system. Yeah, but

1090
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: it is taxpayers money.

1091
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 2: Isn't it up to the victims' families too? Or is

1092
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: it just a courtesy thing where they usually talk to

1093
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: the victims families to see if they're okay with it?

1094
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 2: Because I've seen that happen before. I don't know if

1095
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 2: it's a legal thing or if it's just a courtesy

1096
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 2: thing to say, are you okay with allowing for a

1097
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: plea deal?

1098
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if there were discussions with

1099
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: the family before the plea deal.

1100
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 2: But I know that that does happen on occasion, right, Yeah,

1101
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: because then sometimes the family would be like, we don't

1102
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 2: want to testify, we don't want to be a part

1103
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: of it. We just want to put it to rest

1104
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: and go home. Yeah. I don't know if that that

1105
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: took place.

1106
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: In this way, I don't know, But you know, on

1107
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: one hand, it's like I want I wanted this guy

1108
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: to go to trial because I had so many questions.

1109
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 1: Remember when we did the episode, I was like, I

1110
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: can't wait for trial because I feel like a lot

1111
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: of things will be.

1112
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 2: Answered, well, I think, aren't all those things answering now

1113
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: that he pled guilty.

1114
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: No, No, I had questions that had to do with

1115
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 1: when she saw him in the house, Why did it

1116
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: take so long before she called the police. Then they

1117
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: were in the room together with those those Yeah, I

1118
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: mean maybe some of the obviously they were tight lit

1119
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: because they were going to trial, So I was I

1120
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: was looking forward to the trial.

1121
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 2: There'll be something the questions.

1122
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: That I had about this case were hopefully answered. So

1123
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: now that there's a plea deal, I don't know. Legal

1124
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: experts weigh in on this case. Gretchen Ingle, the executive

1125
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: director of the Center for Death Penalty Litigation, said that

1126
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: in her experience, it's pretty common for a plea deal

1127
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: to come together at the very last minute. However, she

1128
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: said she is a bit mystified that prosecutors in this

1129
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,760
Speaker 1: case agreed to a deal just some month before trial.

1130
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 1: One reason could be that there's a weakness in the case.

1131
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: CBS News legal contributor Caroline policy Policy said the state

1132
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: of Idaho will benefit from the plea deal, especially since

1133
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: Coberg will not be able to appeal, and that may

1134
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: also offer relief to the families they're getting a conviction

1135
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,479
Speaker 1: right away. They're getting the absolute guarantee of life behind

1136
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: bars without the possibility of parole. It costs way more

1137
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: money to have a capital case to impose the death

1138
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: penalty than it does to have somebody serve life behind bars.

1139
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: Wait, he agreed, so he's plea He pled guilty and

1140
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 2: he we already know that the outcome will be life

1141
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 2: behind bars.

1142
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: Well that's what his plea deal was. They took the

1143
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:49,240
Speaker 1: death penalty.

1144
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 2: Well, okay, but sometimes sometimes there's plea deals and you

1145
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,320
Speaker 2: don't know what the sentencing is, no, and you just

1146
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 2: accept it. You you agree to accept whatever it is

1147
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 2: that the judge throws at you. In this case, part

1148
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: of the plea deal was the sentencing.

1149
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was take the death penalty off

1150
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: of the table. I'll plead guilty and then I'll just

1151
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: get a life sentence.

1152
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 2: Without the possibility because you know that happens. Sometimes they'll

1153
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 2: plead guilty but you don't know what you're sensing is.

1154
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 2: But you don't know what the sensing is. And that's

1155
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 2: the risk you take, because I've seen that with usually

1156
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 2: like dui cases and stuff. Right, and then they'll be

1157
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: like Okay, I'll plead guilty. Then they get like twenty.

1158
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: Years and like what, I guess the benefits of him

1159
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: taking a plea deal is it costs way more money

1160
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: to have a capital case to impose the death penalty

1161
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 1: than it doesn't have somebody serve life behind bars.

1162
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 2: So, contrary to what people think, it's more expensive to

1163
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: push someone for capital punishment than it is to put

1164
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: him in jail for the rest of their life.

1165
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: Part of the rationale that the State of Idaho and

1166
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: prosecutors said was we're saving these families the anguish of

1167
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: going through the appeals process. This would not be a

1168
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: quick process. I mean, a capital case is always has

1169
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: an automatic appeal.

1170
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 2: Oh after appeal, yeah, so autumn. But in this case,

1171
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: he pleads guilty, he goes, he gets sentenced, as you said,

1172
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 2: he goes to jail the next day and it's over. Yeah,

1173
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: and now hopefully the families, you know, find some peace

1174
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: or just be able to move on, which you know

1175
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:13,919
Speaker 2: is easier said than done.

1176
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: The plea deal also allows the state to have judicial

1177
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: resources and avoids the uncertainty of a trial and sentencing.

1178
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: This is a slam dunk case by all accounts. The

1179
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: DNA evidence on the knife sheath in particular. There's so

1180
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: much evidence here, she said. But trials there's always a

1181
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: wild card, right, There's always a chance that there wouldn't

1182
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: be a conviction. Then there's the death penalty isn't necessarily

1183
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: a sure thing either. However, the lack of a trial

1184
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: means that some questions may remain unanswered. We may never

1185
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: know the motive or the exact way that this crime

1186
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: took place, which I think is frustrating for the families

1187
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: as well. That's what that's the fust I understand. The

1188
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: benefit is these families don't have to sit there and

1189
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: listen and relive what happened that night.

1190
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: People know how long.

1191
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't have to go through the appeals process.

1192
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: They don't have to look at him sitting in court

1193
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: every day knowing.

1194
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 2: That they took you know, they can just know he's

1195
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 2: in jail now forever.

1196
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: However, you're probably not going to get like the questions

1197
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: I had and the questions that they probably have, those

1198
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: are never going to get answered, and you just have

1199
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: to be maybe.

1200
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: One day he'll do a interview or something. Interview.

1201
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the families is against the plea deal.

1202
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: That's the gone call. I never say this right, and

1203
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: people tell me gon Solve, Gone Solve family Aubrey gunn Solve,

1204
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: the family of Kailey gun Solve, said Brian Coberger. Facing

1205
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: a life in prison means he would still get to speak,

1206
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: form relationships and engage with the world. Meanwhile, our loved ones.

1207
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you don't think there's gonna Females constantly messaging

1208
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 2: this guy, sending him letters and and you know what,

1209
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 2: that gets that part of it. He still gets a life,

1210
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,959
Speaker 2: albeit in a cell. He still gets a life.

1211
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean some A lot of times people

1212
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: create a life that's not so bad. You know, you

1213
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: get three meals a day, you can have friends, You

1214
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: get an education. Yeah, you can still talk to family.

1215
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do a lot more than as if

1216
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 2: you were dead.

1217
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: You get access to internet. Meanwhile, our loved ones have

1218
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: been silenced forever. That really stings more deeply when it

1219
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: feels like the system is protecting his future more than

1220
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: honoring the victims past. From the from the Gonsalvice family

1221
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: social media post, we are beyond furious at the State

1222
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: of Idaho. They have failed us. Please give us some time.

1223
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: This was very unexpected.

1224
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: I would say that it's understandable if a family is

1225
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 2: happy with the plea deal, and it's understandable if a

1226
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: family is not happy with the pat.

1227
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: Right, And in contrast to that, the Mogan family is

1228
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: in support of it. Ben Mogan, father of Madison Mogen,

1229
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: in an interview with CBS, said, if you get that

1230
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: quick death sentence, you don't have to spend decades thinking

1231
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: about how terrible you made the world. We can actually

1232
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: put this behind us and not have these future dates

1233
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: and future things that we don't want to have to

1234
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: be at. We get to just think about the rest

1235
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: of our lives and have to try and figure out

1236
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: how to do it without Maddie and the rest.

1237
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 2: Of the kids. Yeah, and it won't be on the

1238
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 2: news over and over again if you're changing channels and

1239
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 2: you see them on there because they're giving updates.

1240
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: It's just he's in jail, right exactly. So we were

1241
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: actually going to cover or do our best to do

1242
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: some episodes on the Brian Coburger trial because it was

1243
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: coming up in August, but now that he took please deal,

1244
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: we'll move on to other cases. So as always, if

1245
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: you guys have interesting cases out there that you would

1246
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: like us to discuss. Please DM me. We're always happy

1247
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts, your critiques, your questions, your comments.

1248
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: So thank you for doing that, and thank you for listening.

1249
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 2: Thank you