1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Captain Rong. 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only, 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates. 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: We would like to encourage you to do your own 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 11 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact, 12 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 3: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of 13 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from 14 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 3: the newest. 15 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 4: Cases as we talked with the top experts. Hi, and 16 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 4: welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron. Today we're speaking 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 4: with Don Schmidt. Don is one of the world's leading 18 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 4: investigators of the Roswell UFO incident and a seven time 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 4: best selling author whose work has shaped the modern understanding 20 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 4: of UFO crash retrievals and government secrecy. A former co 21 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 4: director of the J. Allen Heineck Center for UFO Studies, 22 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 4: working directly under doctor j Allen Heineck and conducting first 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 4: hand interviews with military personnel, civilians, and intelligence insiders connected 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 4: to Roswell. He is also a founder and lead investigator 25 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 4: for the International UFO Museum and Research Center and a 26 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 4: board advisor to its executive leadership. Hey Don, my friend, 27 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 4: how are you, buddy? 28 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 5: Good to see again, Rod. It's a pleasure. Thank you 29 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 5: for having me. 30 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 4: Absolutely always great to talk to you, Sir. You've been very, 31 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 4: very important in my journey in this world, and I 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 4: appreciate that. Before we get an update on Roswell, I'd 33 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 4: like to talk to you a bit about jay On Heineck. 34 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 4: I know that doctor Heinek was famously the serious scientists 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 4: attached to Project Blue Book who went on to believe 36 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 4: that perhaps there was in fact more to some of 37 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 4: these stories and that we needed to follow the data 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 4: and the science on the subject, something that I certainly believe. 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 4: Can you tell us about his arc on those feelings? 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 5: It was a journey because it was not only was 41 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 5: serendipitous the way he was selected to be the Silk 42 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 5: scientific consultant the project Bluebook. He just happened to be 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 5: down the road. Blue Book was headquartered at right pat 44 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 5: Air Force Bases, you know, in Dayton, Ohio. And Heinik 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 5: was head of the astronomy apartment at Ohio State down 46 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 5: in Columbus, just down the road. And so how perfect 47 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 5: because he was their chief debunker. He was the one 48 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 5: that they would always trot out in front of the 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 5: microphones to dispel you on, discredit every citing imaginable. It 50 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 5: was the planet Venus, it was swamp gas, it was 51 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 5: you know, something astronomical weather related, what have you. They 52 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 5: did all they could, as Heinek would say, they would 53 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 5: jump handsprings whenever they could explain away a case. But 54 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 5: as Heinech evolved and we saw more and more that 55 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 5: all these people can't be lying, they can't all be misidentifying, 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 5: you know, common you know, rational alternative explanations. When he 57 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 5: was dealing with PhDs, when he was dealing with Strategic 58 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 5: Air Command officers, when he was dealing with trained pilots, 59 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 5: and then as he would be going about his own 60 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 5: business flying, you know, between lectures, and then when he 61 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 5: became head of the astronomy department, at Northwestern in Evansteed, Illinois. 62 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 5: He would be talking to both commercial and military pilots 63 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 5: about some of the most profound, you know, experiences. And 64 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 5: then when he would go back down to write Pat 65 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 5: and wade through all the recent reports at blue Book, 66 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 5: they were never there. And he would he would question, 67 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 5: where's this report and where's this pilot report? And he 68 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 5: would always be just summarily dismissed that, well, you know, 69 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 5: we don't know what's talking about what report? And he 70 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 5: realized that he did not have access to the actual cases, 71 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 5: that they were essentially censoring them for their benefits. And 72 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 5: then he realized that my god, this was nothing but 73 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 5: a pr front that blue Book was justice, you know, 74 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 5: dismiss all this as just so much silly season. And 75 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 5: then the only reason he stayed attached, and he threatened 76 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 5: them to resign, to fire himself many times, that he 77 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 5: wanted to stay accessible to the data that if something 78 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 5: should break, there is something truly extraor what happened over 79 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 5: a highly populated area for example, that he wanted to 80 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 5: be connected, and that was the only reason East stayed 81 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 5: with blue Book. 82 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,119 Speaker 4: Thank god he did. What do you think people most 83 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 4: misunderstood about his personality or his motivation. 84 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 5: Well, when the famous Dexter and Arbor sightings happened up 85 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 5: in Michigan in nineteen sixty six, and you had all 86 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 5: those university student sightings as well as a high ranking 87 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 5: Air Force officer, there were police sidings, and that Heinech 88 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 5: was forever labeled with that very term swamp gas marsh gas. 89 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 5: To just set the record straight, that only applied to 90 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 5: one specific sighting of many at that time and involved 91 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 5: a farmer who happened to see a orb of light 92 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 5: rising up over a marsh and for a Heinech, it 93 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 5: was just a case of well, that could have been 94 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 5: swamp gas, that as this gas would accumulate through as 95 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 5: far as a days of heat and humidity, that it 96 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 5: can start to reflect light from the surrounding buildings and 97 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 5: what have you. And so he in no way wanted 98 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 5: that to apply to all those sightings at that time. 99 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 5: It was strictly that one. But the press took the 100 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 5: swamp gut and ran with it. And just like that, 101 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 5: it was then Congressman Gerald Ford of Michigan who cried 102 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 5: foul and they pushed for congressional hearings, which they did 103 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 5: have some preliminary hearings in Washington as far as the 104 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 5: latter part of nineteen sixty six didn't go anywhere. But 105 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 5: nonetheless he forever had to live that down swamp gas 106 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 5: when it only suggested one specific sighting. 107 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 4: Forty to fifty years ago, and we still all hear 108 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 4: about that talk about swamp guys. It's unbelievable. How would 109 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 4: you say, doctor Heinek spoke about the UFO phenomenon private 110 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 4: compared to how he did it publicly. 111 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 5: Privately he was constantly wrestling with, as an astronomer, the 112 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 5: distances from point A to point b. He would use 113 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 5: the example like even in a classroom at Northwestern, if 114 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,119 Speaker 5: you would take the distance of the Earth to the Moon, 115 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 5: and it would be represented by not the width, but 116 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 5: the thickness of a single playing card within a dector 117 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 5: of cards. And he would constantly pose the question to 118 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 5: his students, Now, how many playing cards do you believe 119 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 5: it would take to equal the distance of the Earth 120 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 5: to our nearest star system Alpha Centurion, four point three 121 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 5: light years away. No one would ever get close, not 122 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 5: even on the astronomers. And Heinich had you know, mathematically 123 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 5: determined that it would take nineteen miles of playing cards 124 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 5: to equal that distance, and to him that was just 125 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 5: totally insurmountable, impossible. 126 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, you can't it from here there. It is nineteen 127 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 4: miles of this come on that. 128 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 5: He still had to accept. He had to concede that 129 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 5: we were dealing with physical craft, physical objects that were 130 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 5: interacting with our environment, leaving depressions in the ground, swirled 131 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 5: areas of grass, breaking, tree branches tracked down radar. We 132 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 5: were dealing with physical objects. And the very last time 133 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 5: round that I actually had dinner with doctor Hiding, and 134 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 5: we'll never forget his pounding his fist on the table 135 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 5: and going down it's smacking more and more of nuts 136 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 5: and boats. So that's coming from someone who started out 137 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 5: as a complete debunker and then debunking the idea that 138 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 5: they were traveling from plant to plant to finally accepting 139 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 5: we were dealing with an actual physical phenomenon. 140 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 4: How do you think Heinek would reconcile the lack of 141 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: empirical evidence with repeated credible witness testimony. 142 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 5: He had to deal with that personally for all the 143 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 5: interviews that were conducted through Bluebook, and then certainly thereafter 144 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 5: when he had established a center for UFO Studies in 145 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 5: Chicago in the fall of nineteen seventy three, and the 146 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 5: fact that so many of the eyewitness testimonies, if they 147 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 5: were especially independent, that they could readily be explained. In fact, 148 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 5: at the Center for UFO Studies, our record was about 149 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 5: ninety five percent, but it was that remaining five percent, 150 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 5: and very often of highly educated people. And as Heinich 151 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 5: also determined, the higher the strangeness of the incident, the 152 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 5: greater the believability that nothing else could apply, nothing else 153 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 5: could be suggested to explain away these reports. So that 154 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 5: just hardened him all the more that we were actually 155 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 5: dealing with a phenomenon that was beyond our comprehension. I 156 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 5: think the same thing could be said about this eye 157 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 5: idea that like will Smith Inde Penance state jumping in 158 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 5: the seat, you know, that cockpit of that alien craft, 159 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 5: and he's able to fly it like he's done it 160 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 5: one hundred times before. But if ed bridge, what if 161 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 5: we can't bridge the technology? I think the late screenwriter 162 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 5: Tracy tore May Tracy was a dear friend for thirty years, 163 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 5: and he gave me the best example of all that 164 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 5: just imagined he could take something as simple as a toaster, 165 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 5: and you could teleport it back in time to say, 166 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 5: maybe the Middle Ages, the Dark Ages. They might be 167 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 5: able to take it apart put it back together again, 168 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 5: but if they can't plug it in, they can never 169 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 5: get it to operate. They can never get it to 170 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 5: actually work. 171 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 4: Isn't it true that Project blue Book also had like 172 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 4: five percent that it could not identify. 173 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 5: Even admittedly actually thirteen percent thirteen. 174 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 4: There you go. 175 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 5: When Bluebook was finally declassified by President Jimmy Carter in 176 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 5: nineteen seventy seven, much of it still remained under the 177 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 5: lock and key. There are a lot of gun camera 178 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 5: cases that we've never any of the actual footage, the 179 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 5: stop frames, nothing of that sort. So anytime anybody tells 180 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 5: you a little book's all been declassified, no it hasn't been. No, 181 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 5: it hasn't been. But there were over thirteen thousand cases 182 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 5: they investigated. Of the thirteen thousand, seven hundred and one 183 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 5: remained unexplained, So that comes out to eighty seven percent. 184 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 5: So our record is buried than in the Air Force. 185 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 4: Well, there you go, man, that's awesome. We've got to 186 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 4: take a quick break here. Don When we come back, 187 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 4: we want to ask you about the various governmental programs 188 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 4: and their investigations on the UFO topic, as well as 189 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 4: what your take is on what's actually happening. You're listening 190 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 4: to be on Contact on the iHeartRadio when Coast to 191 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 4: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact. 192 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 4: We're speaking with Don Schmidt. Don, what is the takeaway 193 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 4: for what j Allen Heinek teaches us about how we 194 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 4: should treat this phenomenon? 195 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 5: Well, certainly, foremost have a scientific methodology in that we 196 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 5: are dealing first of all, because we don't have that 197 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 5: physical evidence as you mentioned earlier, Rock, the point being 198 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 5: that unless we have something that we can actually take 199 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 5: into a lab to tear down, to systematically analyze and 200 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 5: see what makes a tick, so to speak, that we're 201 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 5: dealing with a human sociological problem. Why is this person 202 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 5: making this claim? What about them in their background promotes 203 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 5: the idea that they had gone out of their way 204 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 5: to seek notoriety, contact established as far as you know, 205 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 5: contact with a legitimate UFO investigation, and risk ridicule, risk 206 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 5: loss of job. As we both know, until just recent years, 207 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 5: it was a taboo topic that it was a career breaker, 208 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 5: that if you were an air traffic controller at O'Hare Airport, 209 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 5: you did not mention anything about maybe what looked out 210 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 5: of the ordinary some night when you gave venus permission 211 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 5: to land, so to speak, when we would actually be 212 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 5: in people's homes, Heinig would up look at their reading material. 213 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 5: They got a whole library of UFO books. Well, they've 214 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 5: been a bit conditioned, you know, they've been a bit, 215 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 5: a bit coached. But if they swear that, I've never 216 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 5: even given the subject. I thought prior to this incident, 217 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 5: and I was not all driving late, and I peered 218 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 5: through my windshield hoping I would see something. I was 219 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 5: contemplating my pending divorce, and all of a sudden, this 220 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 5: light shows up out of nowhere and it descends in 221 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 5: front of my car. And the next thing, I'm missing 222 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 5: two hours of you know, my travel time. That type 223 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 5: of thing. So you pre investigate as much as you 224 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 5: actually look into the background of the individual, and as 225 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 5: a result, then you start flashing out where the independent 226 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 5: were the other sightings at the same time, what was 227 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 5: reported to the press, what was reported to the local 228 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 5: law enforcement. That type of thing. That was what heineg, 229 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 5: you know, make it into an investigation, just don't accept 230 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 5: the storytelling. Just write down the notes. Investigate. I often 231 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 5: have told people have worked with us, you're an investigator, investigator, 232 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 5: go out there and actually dig out the details. 233 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 4: I was going to ask, what about you, What is 234 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 4: your takeaway from Don Schmidt? What does your feel about 235 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 4: how we should treat the phenomenon? Is it the same? 236 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 5: I would say, because he was so much a mentor 237 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 5: and a teacher to mean and I do privately often 238 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 5: ask now, what would Alan say or how would he 239 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 5: look at this? But then I still have to apply 240 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 5: my own methods. And I think that's why even in 241 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 5: our Roswell investigation, the fact that we were total skeptics, 242 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 5: just as Heineger initially, was that we had to actually 243 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 5: do a full one hundred and eighty. It's one thing 244 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 5: when you have a preconceived theory and you set out 245 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 5: to prove it. But when you actually are looking for 246 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 5: the rationalization the logic in what people have described and 247 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 5: you can't apply that, it's something extraor And as a 248 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 5: result of no matter who you speak with, they're all 249 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 5: describing it in the same terms. They're all wrestling for answers, 250 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 5: and then they're relying on you with the hope that 251 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 5: maybe you, as the investigator, can help them. When you 252 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 5: then come away going I got to get back down 253 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 5: here sooner than later because I failed, because I have 254 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,119 Speaker 5: not been able to you'll come up with a prosaic explanation, 255 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 5: no matter how hard I've tried. It was like the 256 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 5: famous Lanni Zamora, the Socora, New Mexico instead of April 257 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 5: nineteen sixty four, and Heinek would talk about he would 258 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 5: talk with us. How I tried my damnness to explain 259 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 5: that away. I tried to come up with every practical 260 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 5: explanation imaginable, and I couldn't. So what's left except what eyewitnesses, 261 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 5: what the eyewitness is describing. And that's what makes it 262 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 5: all the more intriguing. When you are left with a 263 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 5: visual of what that eyewitness has just described to you 264 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 5: and you recreate it in your mind, you try to 265 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 5: relive it, and you realized, by God, that's all that's left. 266 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 5: That's all that's left is what the witness described. 267 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 4: Has to be. Do you know what his feelings were 268 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 4: as to where he thought the phenomenon might actually be originating. 269 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 4: I know he wanted to just look at the hard 270 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 4: data and the scientific evaluation, but did he ever speculate 271 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 4: and what it could be like? Was it maybe interdimensional 272 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 4: or consciousness based to. 273 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 5: Speculate Bingo Ronnie, he often would contemplate the idea that 274 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 5: this had to be something interdimensional, that this was something 275 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 5: that was here, that it was something that was able 276 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 5: to slip within our very realm and then interact with 277 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 5: us at times. And there again that was the astronomer. 278 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 5: He accepted that we may indeed be dealing with deep 279 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 5: space explorers, almost like the starship Enterprise, like from Star Trek, 280 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 5: and that they happened to be in our neighborhood at 281 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 5: the time of even the trinity flash of the first 282 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 5: atomic bob debtonation in July of nineteen forty five in 283 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 5: New Mexico, of all places, and that it still took 284 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 5: them two years to get here before they appeared to 285 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 5: arrive in mass during that summer of nineteen forty seven. 286 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 5: It almost appeared as though we were being invaded that summer. 287 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 5: Heinich was a bit of a mystic. I can state 288 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 5: that you know, for having known him personally, that he 289 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 5: was willing to wrestle in joust with just every conceivable 290 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 5: explanation short of extraterrestrial. But it was always the extraterrestrial 291 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 5: that stood above everything else, because that we were dealing 292 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 5: with an intelligence, we were dealing with the technology, We 293 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 5: were dealing with something that the government saw important, relevant 294 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 5: and important militarily enough that here we are eighty years 295 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 5: later and they're still covering it up. He had to 296 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 5: deal with the cover up as well, and the fact 297 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 5: that he too was being prevented from seeing the truth. 298 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 4: I love that the ETF explanation was last for him. 299 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 4: I feel like that gets lost today that we need 300 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 4: to keep that in mind. That should be our last thing. 301 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 4: Let's check everything else. Maybe it's this, what are your 302 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 4: thoughts on the various programs the government has put forth 303 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 4: all these years over the years to these are air 304 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 4: quotes investigate the phenomenon, starting with you know, sign Grunge 305 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 4: Blue Book, not to mention the Condon Report in Robertson Panel, 306 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 4: all the way up to Arrow. Do you think they're 307 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 4: all the same or do you think they had different 308 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 4: degrees of genuine investigations? 309 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 5: Well, each one had its own personality. Each one, first 310 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 5: of all, had its own personnel who were assigned what 311 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 5: even historians need to always go back to. It is 312 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 5: the fact that sign or saucer as was also called, 313 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 5: was pretty much created because of that wave of nineteen 314 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 5: forty seven. You know, we could say, I will suggest 315 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 5: that it was mainly because of Roswell that they actually 316 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 5: had hardware in hand, And even General Nathan Twining's letter 317 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 5: that's September, two months after Roswell and his assessment of 318 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 5: the situation and that the phenomenon was real and not 319 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 5: visionary or fictitious, and he ascribed them as dome shaped 320 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 5: saucers thirty feet in diameter and may indeed be anti gravity, 321 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 5: electromagnetic in propulsion, that type of thing talk about really 322 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 5: spinning down specific answers without having any physical evidence. So 323 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 5: there's a contradiction right there. Twining was speaking as though 324 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 5: he knew firsthand that we were dealing with someone else's hardware, 325 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 5: and then a sign was established, and a year and 326 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 5: a half later, what was their final conclusion that the 327 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 5: phenomenon was real, that we were dealing with something interplanetary. 328 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 5: As far as in nineteen forty eight, we already came 329 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 5: up with an answer. It was General Hoyt Vandenberg, who 330 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 5: is the chiefest staff of the Air Force, who, as 331 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 5: you recall, order the report burn that it could not 332 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 5: see the light of day, and we have not seen 333 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 5: the full Project Sign report as a result. His excuse 334 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 5: was that the public could handle it, and they were 335 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 5: just coming off of ten years before the Orson Welles 336 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 5: wore the War Worlds broadcast. They kept throwing that word 337 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 5: panic around. So then they established Project Grudge, which was 338 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 5: undoomed Project Sign. They essentially fired all the pro et investigators, 339 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 5: all the pro Et scientists. Isn't interesting that the name 340 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 5: of the project would be Grudge And what was their 341 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 5: final conclusion The phenomena was something tantamount to mass hallucination, 342 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 5: that it was more psychological that it was physical. And 343 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 5: then it was resultd of the oversight buzzing of the 344 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 5: White House in July nineteen fifty two, that Project blue 345 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 5: Book would be established that here we had you know, 346 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 5: how dare they they're actually buzzing the White House the 347 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 5: Capitol Building, right? How do you explain that away is 348 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 5: being psychological? When they're tracked on radar and they're pilots 349 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 5: that are you know, being encircled by them and they're 350 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 5: playing cat and mouse. That went on for two nights 351 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 5: a week and apart, and then you had the famous 352 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 5: Robertson where the CIA was asked to step in, and 353 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 5: they once again tried to make it a physical threat, 354 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 5: that the Russians could use this as a diversion for 355 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 5: an invasion, and that the reports witnesses were more of 356 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 5: a danger, were more dangerous to the country than the 357 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 5: actual phenomenon. So you see the psychological games they're playing. 358 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 5: But blue book becomes a pr front blue book needed 359 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 5: as far as an out. Well, let's bring in a 360 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 5: bunch of outside scientists, and you had Edward Connon at 361 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 5: the University of Colorado in Boulder. You know all the 362 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 5: end results there. 363 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 4: But yet look right, the conclusion before we do the study. 364 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, right, the conclusion And there again a preconceived 365 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 5: conclusion before we conduct the study. So the faulty premise 366 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 5: to begin with. And yet even the Condon Report, twenty 367 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 5: five percent of their cases they couldn't explain. Wow, so 368 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 5: they are worse than the Air Force. And so again 369 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 5: we need to always go back to our history to 370 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 5: realize where we are today. We're dealing with the wonderful 371 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 5: history of the fact that there were no drones. There 372 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 5: were no satellites that the skies were basically Christine back 373 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 5: in the late forties and through the fifties and spot 374 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 5: Nick wouldn't you know, be till fifty seven, fifty eighth 375 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 5: that type of thing, and so the phenomenon was pretty 376 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 5: virgin through those years, through those decades. 377 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 4: Hey down, we got to take a break here. When 378 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 4: we come back, we're going to shift over to Roswell 379 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 4: because you are probably the world's most versed man on 380 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 4: this case. So we're going to talk to you about that. 381 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 4: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast 382 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 4: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on 383 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 4: Beyond Contact. We're talking with Don Schmidt. We're going to 384 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 4: talk about Roswell. Now, Don, I have had Roswell at 385 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 4: the top of my list as far as credibility, despite 386 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 4: the clichhaneness of saying Roswell. For some reason, it just 387 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 4: feels that way. But it's because I've read all your 388 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 4: books and I've spoken to over the years, and you've 389 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 4: said that that makes you feel ninety nine point nine 390 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 4: percent convinced that it's deal, and it's got me to 391 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 4: say it's at least ninety percent convinced that Roswell had 392 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 4: a non human component. Do you think it's the strongest 393 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 4: case we have. 394 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 5: Yes, by far, for the fact that not only it's 395 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 5: the only case that we actually have, the government slash 396 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 5: military officially announced that they had one in hand and 397 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 5: nonetheless the first atomic bomb squadron in the world, the 398 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 5: five or ninth bomb wing stationed at Roswell when they 399 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 5: put out that press release on Tuesday, July eighth, nineteen 400 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 5: forty seven, where they actually claimed we got one, we 401 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 5: have one, we've captured one, and then the slow evolution 402 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 5: within five hours they put that genie back in the bottom. 403 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 5: And the point is they got away with it. They 404 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 5: did get as far as the genie back where they 405 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 5: felt it it belonged, so there's no other case like this, 406 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 5: And then that it would languish for the next thirty years, 407 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 5: nobody really saying anything about it, the buzzing, the murmuring 408 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 5: as far as within the witnesses, and we often would 409 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 5: hear that through the years that the children would talk about. 410 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 5: We always knew Mom and daverck or talked about forty seven. 411 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 5: If they closed the shades, they closed the drapes that 412 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 5: they were going to, you know, talk privately between themselves. 413 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 5: And then when the head of intelligence had that five 414 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 5: all night bomb Wing, Major Jesse Marcel, then a lieutenant colonel, 415 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 5: he's diagnosed with terminal emphysema and he was the fall 416 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 5: of guy. He was the patsy. He's the one who 417 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 5: was ordered by General Roger Raimi, the head of the 418 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 5: eighth Air Force, which commanded over the five or ninth 419 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 5: bomb wing. And at that famous press conference where they 420 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 5: substitute the weather balloon common off the shelf, reflective foil, 421 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 5: wooden sticks, string, and a neopren rubber balloon off the 422 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 5: shelf material and each child would have recognized and he becomes, 423 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 5: you know, the poster child for the ros will cover up, 424 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 5: but always with that assurance that you'll just be a 425 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 5: good soldier, Jess. Truth will come out. Someday, you'll be exonerated, 426 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 5: you know, you'll be be vindicated. Never happened. And when 427 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 5: you realize that they were never coming out with the truth, 428 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 5: that's when he did. And the fact that before he 429 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 5: dies and up to the time he died, that he stated, 430 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 5: you know, without any doubt whatsoever that what he held 431 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 5: in his hands was not made on this earth. Where 432 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 5: were the banner headlines? The lead intelligence officer of the 433 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 5: first Atomic Bob Squadron states that he handled wreckage of 434 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 5: a craft from another planet, and the only publication that 435 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 5: even touched the story at that time was the National 436 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 5: enquire So you can imagine his bitterness that not only 437 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 5: was he stabbed in the back by the military, but 438 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 5: now by the press. The willing accomplices, who you know, 439 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 5: were just carrying their water, so to speak. But between 440 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 5: Marcel and then his son, who was a full bird 441 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 5: colonel and also a surgeon, a doctor who also handled 442 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 5: some of that wreckage, that they became quite a team. 443 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 5: And that's when the initial investigation, you know Stton Friedman 444 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 5: starting to track down the witnesses. And then when Kevin 445 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 5: Randall and I ended a tray in nineteen eighty nine, 446 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 5: my god, nineteen eighty nine, and then Tom Carey as 447 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 5: an anthropologist, and then Tom and I would work officially, 448 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 5: we'd start working together in nineteen ninety eight. And the 449 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 5: idea that we as as I mentioned earlier, we initially 450 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 5: went down to New Mexico thinking we would wrap this 451 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 5: up in a weekend and to acknowledge that we were 452 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 5: that wrong. And I think there too the fact that 453 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 5: we made every effort to track down every surviving witness 454 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,120 Speaker 5: we could. We wanted to give them an opportunity to 455 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 5: go on the record the state as far as to 456 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 5: the best of the recollection, you know, minus any physical proof. 457 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 5: But granted there was still you know, our radar was 458 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 5: constantly out with the possibility maybe somebody had hit something 459 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 5: away in an army you know, a strong box, or 460 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 5: in a bank security both, what have you. But nonetheless 461 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 5: we realized we were racing with the undertaker that just 462 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 5: as we have never had the opportunity to speak with 463 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 5: Jesse Marcell Senior. We realized that if we didn't find 464 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 5: these people post takes, they would take it to their graves. 465 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 5: And many of them did. Many of them did, I 466 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 5: can't tell you. And it was at a time when 467 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 5: we didn't have the Internet, so we had to actually 468 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 5: track people down, We had to find people. It was 469 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 5: quite the effort, but we were that committed because as 470 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 5: the Provost Marshall, Colonel Edwin Easley at one point told us, 471 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 5: when he denied profusely, I can't talk about it. I'm 472 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 5: still swart of secrecy no matter what we asked him, 473 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,479 Speaker 5: and when we asked them, could you at least tell 474 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 5: us if we're going in the right direction, to which 475 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 5: he responded, let's just say you're not going in the 476 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 5: wrong direction. 477 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 4: That's great, you know, don I also feel like you 478 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 4: guys were very diligent about keeping the facts of this 479 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 4: case straight. Are there things that you guys kept out 480 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 4: of the books or the zeitgeist because you know, you 481 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 4: know a couple examples of things that were interesting that 482 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 4: were possible pieces to this puzzle, but you weren't convinced 483 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 4: that they were strong enough to put in your published works. 484 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely, we have. I would say we probably have 485 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 5: over fifty witnesses that still remain in our gray basket, 486 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 5: and only because we've always insisted that there would be 487 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 5: corroborating testimony that if we had a special flight that involved, 488 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 5: you know, either the transfer of wreckage or remains out 489 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 5: of roswell, we just didn't take that information from one individual. 490 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 5: We would track down the rest of the crewmen who 491 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 5: were on that flight. We would cracked out anyone associated 492 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 5: with that flight, like in operations or through the operations building, 493 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 5: if they were working the radar Tower at that time. 494 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 5: I mean putting together as far as that whole mosaic, 495 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 5: connecting all those dots, and that's the wonderful thing that 496 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 5: really has impressed me. I think really at the top 497 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 5: of much of the investigation ron is that ten people 498 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 5: see a car accident, police assurance, justice will tell you 499 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 5: get ten different versions. That's something you know, that's almost 500 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 5: a common event, it's a yeah. Whereas this is something 501 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 5: again so extraordinary that it didn't matter whether it was 502 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 5: the highest ranking officer or even a child back at 503 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 5: that time, today an adult, it was as though they 504 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 5: were reading from the same script. It's one of the 505 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 5: reasons that, in my case, those of us who were 506 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 5: alive on July twenty second of nineteen sixty three, we 507 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 5: forever remember exactly where we were and when the news 508 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 5: broke and what we thought. And yet we weren't in Dallas. 509 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 5: We weren't in Dealey Plaza when the president was shot. 510 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 5: The same can be said about nine to eleven, and 511 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 5: again we weren't in New York. But nonetheless, when something 512 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 5: profound happens, it's indelibly etched as far as in our 513 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 5: very psyche. And that's exactly what I've observed with Roswell, 514 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 5: they're describing it as though it happened yesterday. 515 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 4: It makes sense to me that it would be that strong. 516 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 4: You know, I'd almost like to see you guys put 517 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 4: together this thing of these fifty witnesses that you have 518 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 4: and just call the book. Maybe you know that these 519 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 4: aren't necessarily we're not putting our name to it. 520 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 5: We're not give you a plea example, give you a 521 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 5: quick example round it. We have a moment. We spoke 522 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 5: to one of the at the stockade the jail at 523 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 5: the base, and we talked to him, and that was 524 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,719 Speaker 5: his job, so he wasn't out in the field gathering 525 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 5: up wreckage or at the hangar guarding the bodies or anything. 526 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 5: But he talked about that there was someone in one 527 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,959 Speaker 5: of the cells and he couldn't that this individual to eat, 528 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 5: and he would yell at it, and he would. But 529 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 5: but what he observed that the fatigues that the clothes 530 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 5: on it were hanging off its arms and all cuffed 531 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 5: up around its ankles. And then he said, at one 532 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 5: point he started banging the tray of food against the 533 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 5: cell bars, and it looked up at him and he 534 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 5: saw the eyes and it's like, so all the rumors 535 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 5: were true. That was Oh my god, the rumors are true. Okay, 536 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 5: we have another story that does you know is connected 537 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 5: to that with a bail bondsman that came in from 538 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 5: Texas to pick up a prisoner and the talk was 539 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 5: about the dwarf the little man they were, you know, 540 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,719 Speaker 5: keeping under lock and key at the stock gave. So 541 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 5: there are two separate stories like that, but it's still 542 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 5: so far out there that you aren't right. We have 543 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 5: a lot of those stories. 544 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 4: Be cool to put that in as a compilation. Okay, 545 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 4: when we come back, we're going to ask down about 546 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 4: the latest updates regarding Roswell. You're listening to Beyond Contact 547 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. 548 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 4: We are back on Beyond Contact having a fascinating conversation 549 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 4: with Don Schmidt regarding Roswell. Don, it's now twenty twenty 550 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 4: six and we've obviously lost every person who was around 551 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 4: during Roswell. But are there any new ways to get 552 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 4: some more evidence on this case. Maybe there's a new 553 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 4: technology or secondhand reports, perhaps some of the kids of 554 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 4: the witnesses, or maybe a whistleblower who has something that 555 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 4: was classified or hidden that. 556 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 5: They as certa of the case, as you met your whistleblower. 557 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 5: The idea that anyone who still has access to the 558 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 5: physical evidence, certainly, that's one of the things that appall 559 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 5: to this date that whenever we've had the congressional hearings, 560 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 5: the Panel committee hearings in Washington, and all they talk 561 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 5: about our documents. If I'm Tim Burschett and I've told 562 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 5: on this to his space, if I'm you, I'm asking, 563 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 5: I want to hold a piece of the wreckage. I demand, 564 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 5: I'm giving you twenty four hours. I want a piece 565 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 5: of the wreckage, you know, a tissue sample something. And 566 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 5: they're not doing that. It's like there's still following orders. 567 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 5: They're still being very you know, as far polite and 568 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 5: gingerly as far as they handle this. The other thing 569 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 5: I throw at them is the fact that we have 570 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 5: compiled to date over thirty deathbed confessions, all admissible in 571 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 5: a court of law. And that's why right now, Ron, 572 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 5: we are going after more and more of the families 573 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 5: where we struck out, where we failed to find their fathers, 574 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 5: their grandfathers, their husbands. What have you now we're talking 575 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 5: to the families. What did they tell you at the end, 576 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 5: And invariably if they spoke at all about Roswell, they 577 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 5: confess to it. They said it was true. They talk 578 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 5: about the wreckage, and they talk about the bodies that 579 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 5: there were indeed bodies recovered and they weren't from here 580 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 5: again admissible physical evidence before any judge and jury. So 581 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 5: again we're winning. And that's why I'm more. I'm just 582 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 5: as enthusiastic as before, because I love it. Until someone 583 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 5: steps forward and can prove otherwise, I mean less we 584 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 5: ever forget the government slash military is up to four 585 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 5: official explanations regarding Roswell. There isn't a UFO case, you know, 586 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 5: equal to that level of concern on the part of 587 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 5: official dumb that they've had press conference, at the press 588 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 5: conference at the Pentagon trying to explain this all away. 589 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 5: We're now talking about wooden crash dummies five years removed. Now, 590 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 5: then we talk about time travel that the Air Force 591 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 5: is concocting stories that these crash dummies, Uh, you know, 592 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 5: time traveled back from nineteen fifty two back to nineteen 593 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 5: forty seven, that type of thing. So that's how ridiculous. 594 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 5: It's come in their efforts to stall for time, to 595 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 5: run out the clock until the final first hand witness 596 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 5: is gone. And even there we're not letting them win. 597 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 5: Now we're getting the families born. More to chime in 598 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 5: that my father lived under fear and intimidation, and then 599 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 5: at the very end he finally broke his silence and said, 600 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 5: don't believe a word the government is telling you. It 601 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 5: did happen, and they were not from here. 602 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 4: I love it. Listen, after decades of researching this, obviously 603 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 4: you've been knee deep in it. Is there a question 604 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 4: or a piece of the puzzle, either with Roswell or 605 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 4: just phenomenon itself that elude you that you wish you 606 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 4: knew a little bit more about. 607 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 5: Oh, many questions round, many questions as to why certain 608 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 5: events happened that seemed out of place, that almost seemed 609 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 5: as though they were also attempting to create diversions. The 610 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 5: press release that went out, for example, We're convinced was 611 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 5: a total diversion, talking about only the debris field. They 612 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 5: concede the debris, but they don't admit anything about the bodies. 613 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 5: And yet that site just north of Roswell twenty seven 614 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 5: miles removed from the debris field, it becomes the much 615 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 5: more urgent location. So they use a diversion to essentially 616 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 5: send the press, you know, on a wild goose chase, 617 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 5: that type of thing. So certain officers and what the 618 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,439 Speaker 5: what they told us obviously didn't pan out, turned out 619 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 5: to be misinformation and at times even disinformation, but that 620 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 5: all becomes part of the game if it become if 621 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 5: it's too easy, then run the other way. The fact 622 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 5: that it has been as difficult as it has been, 623 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 5: and for all the attacks, both personal and especially to 624 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 5: the witnesses, we must be over the target. Otherwise who 625 00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 5: would care? 626 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 4: The o't even react to it exactly. What is the 627 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 4: strongest piece of evidence that we have for Roswell being 628 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 4: of non human origin? I would say it's the totality 629 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 4: of all this evidence. But do you have a specific. 630 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 5: Piece Again, the deathbeds, when you have high ranking officers 631 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 5: on their deathbeds referred to the creatures for example, well, 632 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 5: crash test dummies aren't creatures, and if it's you know, 633 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 5: one of their own military personnel, it's quite a slam. 634 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 5: Well he was a creature. No, no, no, they were 635 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 5: talking about something else, handwritten notes about this is true 636 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 5: inside our books, that type of thing, and then given 637 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 5: out to the family before they died. Just the consistency 638 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 5: of even the deathbed testimonies, and then the fact that 639 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 5: the government has reacted the way it has. We obviously 640 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 5: are pushing the right buttons. As you said, Ron, they 641 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 5: wouldn't give a damn, why should they care otherwise? And 642 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 5: so who in the right mind would then walk away 643 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 5: from it? Will just say, you know, I washed my 644 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 5: hands of it because we came up empty handed. We 645 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 5: had now five archaeological digs at the briefield, we're planning 646 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 5: on another, and we're going in with subterranean radar drones 647 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 5: the next time, so we can really canvas the whole 648 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 5: area much more thoroughly than we have before. As you 649 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 5: talk about an area that covers almost a mile in 650 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 5: length alone, there's a lot of ground to cover. I'm 651 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 5: still as enthusiastic as before because as one of the 652 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 5: witnesses before he died, and I was with him at 653 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 5: the end and he said to me, you know, it's 654 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 5: up to you now to finish it, and that's exactly 655 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 5: how we see it. 656 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 4: I love it's powerful. 657 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, would have one of them. Finish it. 658 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 4: When you come across someone who flat out does not 659 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 4: accept any of the evidence in the Roswell case, whether 660 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 4: they've looked at it or not, what do you say 661 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 4: to them? What do you point to that might persuade 662 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 4: them that there's more to this story? 663 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 5: Well, what we actually just discussed the idea that you 664 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 5: aren't going to tell me that you've looked at all 665 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 5: the evidence, albeit circumstantial, and then just can summarily dismiss 666 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 5: it just because you don't like what they say. We've 667 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 5: had witnesses that you can't trust any of the death 668 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 5: bet testimonies. Well, but then we got accept you know, 669 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 5: a million other death bet testimonies, you know, unrelated. I mean, 670 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 5: we can't have it both ways. When you have former 671 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 5: astronauts like edgar Mitchell, when you have even former presidents, 672 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 5: you know, Bill Clinton, who's publicly you know that the 673 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 5: one thing that they wouldn't tell me the truth about, 674 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,240 Speaker 5: aside from even the Keunty assassination, that whole Webster Hubble 675 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 5: story about. I want the truth about UFOs and the 676 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 5: truth about the County assassination. You'll see what you can 677 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 5: find me. That type of thing we have former governors 678 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 5: like Bill Richardson of New Mexico that this is clearly, 679 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 5: you know, a cover up and they're not telling us 680 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 5: the truth. So I'm a good company. The late Congressman 681 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 5: Stephen Shift the fact that he was stonewall left and right, 682 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 5: and all we were trying to do was open up 683 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 5: the files and have hearings on Roswell. And now finally 684 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 5: run for the fact that how convenient, and now we 685 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 5: have hearings. Now we have so called whistleblowers, when at 686 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 5: its peak of our ROS investigation, we had over one hundred, 687 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 5: over one hundred first ten witnesses And just imagine Major 688 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 5: Jesse Marcel in front of that congressional hearing and say 689 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 5: I held it in my hands and it was not 690 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 5: from this earth, and he says that onder oath, my 691 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 5: God overnight. 692 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think about that all the time. What's the 693 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 4: single most important fact you think about Roswell? That people 694 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 4: don't understand. 695 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 5: The human element involved the fact that they were threatening children, 696 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 5: That they were going into private citizens' homes, sequestering parents 697 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 5: in one room, children in another, and telling the parents 698 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 5: we will kill your children. If you ever talk about 699 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 5: this again, then strong arming the children you will never 700 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 5: see your parents again. We will take you out into 701 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 5: the desert and they will find your bones, you know, 702 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 5: next spring, that type of thing. What would possess our 703 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:17,320 Speaker 5: government to resort to such extreme measures over something again 704 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 5: as mundane as a weather balloon. 705 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 4: I'm sorry that those people could still be alive and reachable, right, yes, yes, yes, 706 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 4: And that's where that's a piece of the puzzle that 707 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 4: I think matters. 708 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 5: And that's why I've already I emphasize in Washington that 709 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 5: if any official, including the very President of the United 710 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 5: States again, politics withstanding, Roswell has nothing to do with politics, 711 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 5: but that if you will come to Roswell, I will 712 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 5: fill up that theater, that video room fifty people. It's 713 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 5: my family members, and you can hear from them firsthand, 714 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,399 Speaker 5: the fear, the intimidation, what they live with all these 715 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 5: years over a blow. 716 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 4: Well, Don, we're actually getting people in Congress to take 717 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 4: this topic seriously. The government's looked at more openly than 718 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 4: they have before, so maybe this will actually happen. Don, 719 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 4: We're out of time, but thanks so much man. As always, 720 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 4: I really appreciate your insights. Hey, where's the best place 721 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 4: people can reach you? Or maybe if they're out there 722 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 4: and they know something that you'd want to hear. How 723 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 4: can they do that? 724 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 5: Of course through the International UFO Museum in Roswell, where 725 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 5: I'm the chief investigator, as well as our website which 726 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 5: is Roswell Investigators dot com. And I'm also on Facebook 727 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 5: under Donald Raymond Schmidt, and I make it a point 728 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 5: I respond to everybody, to anybody, and we're still open 729 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 5: to any leads, any information, no matter how insignificant you 730 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 5: may think it is to us. 731 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 4: It may not except me. I reach out to him 732 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 4: on there and he ignores it. So I don't know 733 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 4: what to say about netfolks, but thanks you guys. To 734 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,879 Speaker 4: find me on Twitter and Instagram at CIITV Underscore Captain Ron. 735 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 4: Stay connected by checking out contact inthedesert dot com. Stay 736 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 4: open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right 737 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 4: here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal 738 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:09,720 Speaker 4: Podcast Network. 739 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 740 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,839 Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 741 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 742 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com