WEBVTT - Creativity is Not Optional 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.200 Welcome to Time Out. I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.879 New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:13.360 activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.920 And I'm doctor Addi Narukar, a physician and medical correspondent 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.000 with an expertise in the science of stress, resilience, mental health, 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.400 and burnout. We're here to peel back to layers around 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.320 why it's so easy for society to guard men's time 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.640 as if it's diamonds, and to treat women's time as 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.000 if it's infinite like sands. And whether you are partnered 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.559 with or without children, or in a career where you 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.760 want more boundaries, this is the place for you for 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.720 all family structures. We're here to take a time out 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:50.400 to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim our time. 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.560 So add I've been thinking a lot about unicorn space, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.800 this idea that, like the mythical eq wine, finding space 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.680 and time uninterrupted attention for things that we love is 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:19.760 often difficult because in our society we're often defined by 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.600 our roles. We're often taught to give our most valuable 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.679 currency away, our time and service of others. And I 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.600 remember Anne Marie Slaughter said something to me that I 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.520 thought was really powerful. She said that she feels in 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.640 community with all women across the globe because at some point, 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.720 every single one of us will be defined by our roles. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.959 And so that gets me to something I want to 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.640 tell you about a keynote that I started to write 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:53.280 for a women's college that asked me to speak to them, 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.760 and the speech I delivered was probably a little bit 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.480 different than the one they thought I was going to deliver. Typically, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.680 right command been speeches, or these speeches that we give 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.760 to the next generation are all about you can do 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.360 anything and you can be anything. But my speech was 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:14.520 called you only have ten years left to live. It 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.600 was inspired by Heidi Shriks what the Constitution means to me. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.160 What I loved was that she embodied her younger self, 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:26.840 and so as I started the speech, I embodied the 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.760 twenty one year old Eve and a d D. I 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.080 was going to be president and senator, right because like 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.040 who stopped legislating around four o'clock? Like, you have so 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.400 much more time. Right, you can legislate during the day, 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.760 and obviously you can pass all of your executive orders 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.959 at night. But I'm not going to give up my 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.880 dream of being a nick City dancer, because why would 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.560 I could just fly Air Force one into New York 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.760 because it's such a short jaunt from d C, and 0:02:54.800 --> 0:03:04.359 I'll do the twelve thirty shows. I start this way 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.920 because I want to remind our listeners of who you were, 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:14.960 say at or that time in your life when you 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:21.400 had that much potential, that much power, that much fire, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.000 and what happens to it? Why did I call it 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:27.920 I only had ten years left to live, because by 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.079 the time I was thirty one, my fire had gone out. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.720 It had been extinguished by my roles, by what society 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.840 expected of me, of the unpaid labor, that discipline and 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.640 screen time and the bathing and grooming of kids, and 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:47.200 on and on. So what happens to us where we 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.040 go from being told the lie that we could be 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.560 and do anything to the point where society rears its 0:03:55.680 --> 0:04:00.800 ugly head. And how do we prevent that? For women especially? 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.360 There will always be rain, There will always be the 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.600 other backpack to unpack, or the extracurricular sports you have 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.800 to take your kids to. But as my favorite Vivian 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.039 Green quote, which can come off cheesy, but I still 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.080 think it's very important, right we don't wait for the 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.720 storm to pass. We have to learn to dance in 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:27.080 the rain. And this idea of unicorn space, which is 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.400 something different than self care and friendships, which are also important. 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:37.280 This space to reclaim who we were at our most vibrant, 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.000 are most powerful, our most passionate version of who we 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.920 were can always be there and can be reclaimed if 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.599 we've lost it. It's just about being intentional and thinking 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.240 about how we can do this within the current structures 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.200 of how we live in America today. We have to 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.039 understand the hurdles that our society is put in front 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.960 of us, the hurdles to that sustained attention to things 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:10.159 that we love. And one of those hurdles is the 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.599 permission to be interested in our own lives and interesting 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:19.440 to ourselves. That permission to be unavailable from our roles, 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:26.440 that idea that we are defined as individuals as opposed 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.240 to in relation to others. In fact, even in the 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.960 daily act of wearing our kids initials on our neck, 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:36.760 wearing mom on our neck, I have to say a 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:38.560 d D. I said to my kids, you know, I 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:44.000 need unavailability from my roles. I need unavailability to reclaim 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.080 what makes me me, And so I'm going to start 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:50.120 with actually wearing my own initial around my neck. And 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:51.560 my kids are so proud of me. They're like, my 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.200 mommy doesn't wear our initials, she wears her own. And 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.640 they know my name is E V. And my name 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.240 is powerful and I'm reclaiming it. Second is this idea 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.520 about guilt and shame. And the third is our ability 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.320 to use our voice, which we're talking about throughout this 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.839 whole season, that we get a chance to vocalize what 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:18.280 we need. Why are those things the idea that being unavailable, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.240 a lack of guilt and shame, and using my voice 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.400 a deity? Why are those so hard to exercise in 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.680 everyday life. All of those things that you mentioned their 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.880 societal constructs that are put up on us and as women, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.800 especially in multitasking is something that we do and it's 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.240 a real sense of a badge of honor to be 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:42.800 able to do everything so well, all at once, without 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.560 even breaking a sweat. But in fact, multitasking is bad 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.840 for the brain, and we don't talk about that enough. 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.560 In fact, when you look at the biology of the 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.880 brain and you look at how multitasking works, it is 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:59.400 divided attention. And if we want better brain health, better 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.120 mental health, a sense of resiliency, and a lack of burnout, 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.800 then we can't divide our attention in a million different ways. 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.480 We have to have that focused, sustained attention, which is 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:15.320 what the unicorn spaces. It has lots of brain benefits. 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.680 This idea of creativity not as a luxury or a 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.880 nice to have, but a necessity. And when we carve 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:26.000 out that unicorn space and live within our unicorn space, 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:31.200 we are giving our body and our mind a chance 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:36.440 to really be optimized. When we are fully inhabiting that 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:42.120 unicorn space, it improves our resilience, It decreases our stress, 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.240 it decreases our burnout. It also has lots of other 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:53.080 benefits the growth, mindset, innovation, problem solving, creating a sense 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:59.400 of meaning and purpose, imagination, creativity. They are actually very 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.120 important hard metrics that impact the bottom line when it 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.720 comes to our health, our mental health and physical health. 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:10.000 Creativity has been shown to improve anxiety and depression. It 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.480 changes the brain, It decreases our cortisol level, which is 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:18.000 a stress hormone, and it has a huge biological boost. 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.800 I wonder if I can interject with just the definition 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.560 of the flow state. Before we get into the secret 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.600 formula of creativity, I want to give props a d 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.720 D to me Hi. Chicks sent me Hi a hard 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:37.320 name to pronounce, but he is the founder, an originator 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.160 of the concept of the flow state. And what's so 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:45.400 beautiful about his work is he identified something that we've 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.840 all felt, wonder, the wonder of what it feels like 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:55.720 when you lose yourself in an activity. Now, children and 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:00.559 society are the conspirers against flow. They come in to 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:05.040 cut up our time into little bits. And actually the 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:10.120 idea that women that we deserve sustained attention for our 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.600 flow state, for things that we love to me is 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.880 how we redefine happiness, because what we found lately is 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.440 that and this is what the research shows, if you 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.960 focus on how to be happy, the pursuit of happiness 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:29.480 for happiness sake actually makes you more sad. And indeed, 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.559 you could talk more about that from a scientific perspective, 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.839 but what I will say is that happiness is a 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.839 clue that you found your unicorn space and whether it's 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.400 going back to your childhood, but if you had trauma 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.880 in your childhood, maybe it's looking forward to who you 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.720 want to be. However you get there, and we will 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.080 be talking about this a lot over the season. It 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:56.160 is not easy to inhabit your unicorn space. If it was, 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.800 we'd all be living to two hundred, frolicking in a 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.160 field of lavender. And I think it's also important to 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.199 recognize that any amount of time, even if it's five 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.520 minutes in that flow state, can have ripple effects for 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.600 our whole day, and actually biological effects. You may not 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:17.920 know when you're in getting into the flow state, but 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.720 you certainly know when you've gotten out. It's that sense 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.880 of timelessness in the present moment. We lose track of time, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.320 we lose track of where we are, and there's many 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.720 ways to get there. It's not the same for everyone. 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.040 Probably one of my favorite benefits of getting into the 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:40.160 unicorn space is strengthening our sense of autonomy, which when 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.719 we're married, with children and in many roles that can 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:48.560 be weakened, and we as human beings are meaning seeking, 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:53.160 purpose driven creatures. When we cultivate a unicorn space, get 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.320 into that sense of flow, we find our sense of 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:02.320 purpose and mastery within our cells, which in turn gives 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.240 us mastery in all of the other roles Eve that 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.000 you've already talked about. I think that's so beautiful because 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.680 some people say it's you know, simmering my signature sauce, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:17.960 but without the expectation and the interruption of children and 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.840 a partner. I think the beauty is understanding what it 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.640 is for you, and it can change and it doesn't 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.200 always have to be the same, and it's not always 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.240 going to be easy, which we're going to be talking 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:35.480 about with our guests today, creativity expert Natalie Nixon. I 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.360 think the most beautiful thing that Natalie Nixon talks about 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.760 is the fact that creativity, the flow state, is not 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:50.120 just wonder. It also requires rigor. And that rigor is 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:54.240 what's hard because to find rigor and an activity to 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.800 learn to climb that mountain, to learn that signature sauce, 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.920 to learn about the gender division of labor, which was 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:07.439 my unicorn space for so long, does require this sustained attention. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.160 I can't shake this idea that when we think about 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.680 the word creativity, we think of youth, but in fact, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:19.240 creativity as we age becomes even more important. There was 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.880 a study done of older adults which found that when 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.640 older adults are engaged in creative pursuits, there is a 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.320 greater sense of connectivity in the brain, but also within 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.600 their selves. There's better cognitive functioning, and there's a greater 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.960 sense of well being. Now, this is not just nice 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.200 to have stuff. This is essential, critical stuff that we need. 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.960 That is to me the reason why I had to 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.520 write a whole second book on this topic because it 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:55.840 should be essential to your life. It is not optional. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.160 But often we've dismissed this part of our life as 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.600 a nice to have with words I want to retire, 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:10.840 like hobby or vanity project or leisure or distractions. And 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.480 I will say that you said something very important about loneliness. 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.920 People ask me when I asked this question now two thousands, 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.160 this idea of what makes you you and what and 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.600 how do you share it with the world. A lot 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.240 of people ask me, well, what's the second question important for? 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.640 Why can't it just be what makes me me? Why 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:35.559 do you have to ask how do you share it 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:39.800 with the world? And the reason why is because there 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:45.880 is a distinction between self care, which is important, but 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.960 I often likened it to a more passive pursuit. I 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.000 mean it can be active like a spinning class, or 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.120 taking a walk with your dog, But it doesn't have 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.760 the same benefits as that connection, the sharing with your world. 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.680 That active pursuit is something different. That's what we're talking 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.840 about here. Those are baseline things that we should all have. 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.040 The next iteration and elevation up is this idea of 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:16.720 the active pursuit of creative self expression that makes you you. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.400 Whether it be my friend who started as a baker 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.680 and now she's leveling up to making robotic cakes that 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:28.120 literally move, that's her unicorn space. The idea is the 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.240 sharing with the world, whether it's your neighbor, whether it's 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.560 becoming in a marathon group, whether it's getting ukulele recital 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:41.040 for five best friends. That flow state often comes in 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:46.440 the process of the connection of sharing, and that flow 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.760 stage is contagious. The unicorn space is contagious. When you 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:56.360 see your friends embodying that creativity or in that sense 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.080 of flow and they're really lit up, it makes you 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.320 want that too. So we're gonna be talking to Natalie 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.480 Nixon after the break about all of these things. I 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:21.440 cannot wait for you to hear what she has to say. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.920 I'm excited to welcome today's guest, Natalie Nixon not only 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.680 a friend, she is a creativity strategist, global keynote speaker 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:39.280 and author of the award winning the Creativity Leap Unleashed Curiosity, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:44.880 Improvisation and Intuition at Work. Hi Natalie, Hi Eve, It's 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:46.480 so good to see you and to be here. Thanks 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.760 for having me so before you came on, we were 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.280 talking a little bit about the hurdles to creativity, all 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.920 of those permissions we have to give ourselves to be unavailable, 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.560 to literally burn guilt and shame for spending sustained attention 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.800 on things that we love, and to use our voice. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.000 And now I want to go into our shared passion, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:13.360 which is creativity frameworks. Your wonder Rigor framework. We mentioned 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.280 it earlier as well as some of the findings around 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:23.280 how important not just curiosity is, but connection sharing your 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.160 creativity with others, whether it be chat chat on Instagram 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:28.880 like I got to see you last night during your 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:33.560 beautiful ballroom chance, or sending your crochet Harry Potter doll 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.920 to your aunt as my other friend just did. She 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.720 just completed her money and the last secret formula see 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.880 that I like to talk about, besides curiosity and connection 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.320 is the idea of completion, what it looks like to 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.360 actually complete something, as opposed to living in a graveyard 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.920 of unfulfilled dreams, as my friend once called it. So 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.880 to to go through the journey from curiosity to connection 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.800 a completion. I would love for you to tell a 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:07.720 little bit about how you help people to aim for 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.960 Curiosity is not a nice to have, but it must 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:16.400 have in their business and social and intimate lives. Sure. Well, 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.679 you know, Eve, I've a really loopy background in cultural 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.159 anthropology and fashion. I was a professor for sixteen years 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.520 and loved what I did until I didn't anymore. I 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.680 actually started falling in love with my side hustle, which 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.760 at the time that that was figure eight thinking, and 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.560 I was getting invited into companies to help them design 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.520 and build cultures of innovation. That was really an outgrowth 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:42.119 after I gave a ted Ex Philadelphia talk which was 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:48.680 essentially my PhD dissertation and plain English, I basically proclaimed 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.800 that the future of work is jazz and here's why 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.360 and here's how, and that talk really catapulted me into 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.119 getting invited into companies to help them become more improvisational, 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.560 which essentially me it is helping them to become more adaptive, 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:06.920 more experimental, more self organizing. This was probably about eight 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.960 years ago now, and everyone was chasing the eye word. 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.880 Everyone was trying to innovate, innovate, innovate, and well, that's 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.439 cool and that's fine. I was seeing that there's no 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.760 lingua franca for what we meant by innovation. We were 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.119 kind of like kept missing each other. And we, I 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.440 mean the collective corporate America. I know that I can't 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.840 critique a system without offering an alternative, another way to 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.760 be thinking about this. And so what my hunch was 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.359 telling me is that we were starting in the wrong place, 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:45.800 and we actually should be starting with creativity. However, as 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.760 you well know, Eve and add that if you lead 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.120 with creativity and the how old halls of corporate America, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.840 let look at you like you have three hits. So 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:00.960 that began my journey of figuring out what might be 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:05.400 a simple and accessible way that I could help other 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.880 people who don't necessarily think that they're creative to think 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.359 about creativity in their work, to amplify it and the 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.600 ways that they do their work so that they can 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:21.240 ultimately innovate. And through a few years of really tinkering 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:26.080 with these ideas, I landed on this definition that creativity 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:31.520 is our ability to toggle between wonder and rigor to 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.840 solve problems and produce novel value. Along the way, I 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.480 came up with the definition that I like for innovation, 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:43.719 which is that innovation is an invention converted into scalable value. 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.600 And that value could be cultural value, social value, financial value. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.760 And what's that conversion agent what helps us go from 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:56.080 an invention to an innovation? It's creativity. I love that 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:02.240 toggling between wonder and rigor, tow words and frameworks that 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.520 you would never put next to each other, and yet 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.880 both are so essential for creativity. You know, you say, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.879 I know it may feel more important to dig in 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.959 your heels in times of crisis and only focus on 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:20.000 practical survival mode stuff, And you're right. Creativity is incredibly 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.520 practical and it is crucial to survival. I laughed when 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.680 I read that, because we never think of creativity as 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.560 something that is practical or something that's necessarily a survival skill. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.480 Creativity isn't nice to have, It's a luxury. It's something 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.560 to do when all of your to do list is 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.480 done and all those boxes have been checked off, but 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.720 you really turn that notion on its head. And I 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.800 would love for you to tell us a little bit 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.960 more about why you think creativity is a survival skill, 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.040 especially for the audience that is listening, that is very 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:56.280 much in survival mode right now. So I launched the 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:00.960 Creativity Lead in the middle of the beginning phases of 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.879 the COVID nineteen pandemic in June, and I have to 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.560 tell you that there were many days I would wake up, 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.640 you know, right before I go to and I was thinking, Gosh, 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.280 when people are dying, when people are losing their jobs, 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.800 when people are going through so much ambiguity and uncertainty, 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:27.840 is creativity a luxury? Am I offering up a mental 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.159 model that will be additive and helpful to the ways 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.480 we will be able to navigate this time and going forward. 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:37.800 You know, as you said, it's not a luxury. It 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:43.520 is actually more essential than ever to hone your creativity 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.320 capacity or your c Q your creativity quotient as I 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:48.879 like to call it. It's important more than ever to 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:54.080 develop that capacity and to hone it because creativity is 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.760 a competency. It's something that we can exercise and get 0:21:57.800 --> 0:21:59.840 better at. It's something that when we look at our 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:02.880 own children, and we think about our own childhoods. We 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.440 have so many great examples of our ability to toggle 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:12.240 between wonder and rigor to solve problems. What has happened 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:17.960 is that through traditional mainstream ways of being educated, we 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.320 get the signals that we should air on the side 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:28.120 of solutions versus process. Creativity is also not a luxury 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:32.119 because when I think about some of the more underprivileged, 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:37.600 marginalized groups in our society, oh my gosh, it's full 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:41.480 of create creative moments and output. Because, as it turns out, 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:46.119 creativity loves constraints. Creativity loves constraints on our time, it 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:51.040 loves constraints on money, it loves constraints on people resources. 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.080 It's actually just as we know that our greatest learning 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:58.240 happens when we fail, when we mess up big time, 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:02.320 it's when we have those strengths as in a pandemic, 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:07.800 that creativity really flourishes. Wow, I'm sort of freaking out 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:10.840 on that right, this idea that creativity love constraints because 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.760 you sort of think you have to be completely free 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:18.400 before you can live a creative life. But the idea 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:22.159 that similar to what Natalie is saying, is that in 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.439 my research, this idea that creativity can only come for 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.520 the privileged or unicorn space is really only for the 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:31.640 top echelon. It was almost the opposite. It was the 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:35.040 freed to calos of the world, and this idea that 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:39.520 through oppression and and trauma, as we know that some 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:42.840 of the most creative acts have been done and it 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:46.160 is subversive and we have to push through to do it. 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:50.200 Not only is it not reserved for the top echelon 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:54.840 of privilege, but we can't let its stay there. No, 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:58.240 we cannot. I love how you just reference the word 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.160 subversive because and some of my kino what I'm talking 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:06.080 about improvisation, I meet people where they are by first 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:09.080 acknowledging that most of us are terrified to improvise. And 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:11.560 that's in part because when we think about improvisation, we 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:15.080 think about about really impressive jazz musicians who do like 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:21.840 phenomenal in the moment, in in flow, majestic innovation and 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:25.200 output of sound. Or we think about the great comedic 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:27.959 artists of Saturday Live and what they're able to do 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.440 in the moment. It's a been intimidating, but I remind 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:34.679 people that you hack your way through every day like 0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:39.640 probably between breakfast and lunchtime, you have had to hack 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:43.520 your way through supporting a spouse, a child, a colleague, 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:47.679 a client. And then if you look even further back, 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:52.040 we were really great improvisers as kids. There's an image 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:56.520 I show of a basketball hoop in the form of 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.920 a milk crate, of a punched out bottom, and it's 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:04.120 hanging under a side that says no ball playing here. 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:10.480 And I love that photograph because that's such a great 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:15.080 example of creativity loving constraints. Because in a lot of 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:20.640 our cities, in poorer communities, where there's no grassy playground 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:24.360 and and net hoops to play ball or light at night, 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:28.400 do you see that all the time? That's incredible hacking 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:32.840 and creativity. I talked about how back in the late 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:37.880 seventies early eighties we saw the greatest divestment of funding 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.960 for for arts education or public schools. And what did 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:44.800 African American male teams do. They turned a turntable into 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:48.679 a percussion instrument, and scratching is now one of the 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:52.120 most iconic sounds in hip hop, which is the largest 0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:55.800 music genre in the world right now. It's just all 0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:59.800 these examples of how in these pressure cooker moments, we 0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:04.679 can be quite subversive in some really extraordinary ways. You 0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:09.720 talk a lot about this idea of creativity being hardwired, 0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:13.720 that we as human beings are hardwired for a creativity, 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:16.480 and yet it's so difficult for some of us to 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:20.720 cultivate because it seems like if we're hardwired for creativity, 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:23.119 then it should just bubble up like it does for kids. 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:26.600 So yeah, so we see that that hardwiredness. And I'll 0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:28.679 just go back to kind of breaking down how I 0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:32.600 define creativity to explain why I say we're hardwired to 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:36.840 be creative, if you accept or just kind of hold 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:39.680 for a moment, that creativity is our ability to toggle 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.680 between wonder and rigor to solve problems. Well, well, let's 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:46.840 break down what each of those dimensions are. Wonder is 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:54.000