Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 4: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Kara and I am Lisa, and we're
Speaker 2: talking an episode of SVU, the true crime it is
Speaker 2: based on. And then we are talking to an incredible
Speaker 2: guest that was life changing. I did brag about this
Speaker 2: guest to my acting teacher and he was thrilled for us,
Speaker 2: and he was impressed at whatever. We'll we'll wait, we'll wait,
Speaker 2: wait for that. What's that, bitch? What do you have
Speaker 2: to say?
Speaker 3: What is my whole deal? I I am good.
Speaker 1: I had a funny thing happened to me over Friday.
Speaker 1: So unfortunately Lisa's out of town, or I would have
Speaker 1: gone with her. Because Trixie and Katia, two of our
Speaker 1: favorite drag queens, did play live in Los Angeles. We
Speaker 1: were very excited to go see them, but Lisa's out
Speaker 1: of town, so I went with another friend and I
Speaker 1: met my friend I was running late.
Speaker 3: Oh he's a friend of the pod. Oh yes, it's Jed.
Speaker 3: If you were at our LA show.
Speaker 1: He helped us sell some merch and he was there
Speaker 1: before me, having drinks and I was like rushing to
Speaker 1: get there. And so I get there and outside there's
Speaker 1: this huge line to get in, and I'm like, it's
Speaker 1: already seven thirty. Why doors were at seven? Why is
Speaker 1: there this massive line? But also we have a signed seats,
Speaker 1: so it's like, I don't know. So Jed and I
Speaker 1: just kind of slip into the line at a place
Speaker 1: where there's a huge gap where there's a parking lot,
Speaker 1: and we act like we don't see the line that's
Speaker 1: behind us, which is rude, but we were both we
Speaker 1: just had to get to will call, so I had
Speaker 1: another line to wait in once I got in anyway,
Speaker 1: so I was just like, just let me have I'm
Speaker 1: running late, ran here.
Speaker 2: From like putting my kids to bed.
Speaker 1: So as the line comes up and joins us, this
Speaker 1: girl behind us, like this girl with like fabulous makeup on,
Speaker 1: was like, oh, so you guys are just gonna cut
Speaker 1: And at this moment that this happened, Uh, that's messed up.
Speaker 1: Listener goes Kara Klank from that's messed up, And I go,
Speaker 1: uh what, And I like turn my head and it's
Speaker 1: this girl that's like, oh my god, I love your podcast.
Speaker 1: She introduces me to her mom. She's like, mom, she
Speaker 1: hosts one of my favorite podcasts. And I'm like, uh uh,
Speaker 1: Like I haven't been recognized really before. Besides that our
Speaker 1: live shows where you're coming to see us, and so
Speaker 1: I was like, Hi, Hi, great.
Speaker 2: To meet you. Yeah, thanks for listening. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I enjoy the show. Whatever.
Speaker 1: And then by the time I turned around, Jed had
Speaker 1: just worked it out with the girl, so we were
Speaker 1: just in line, and I was like, wow, that was
Speaker 1: probably the best first recognition I could have gotten.
Speaker 3: Like I just was like, are we gonna have like
Speaker 3: a fight?
Speaker 1: I don't want to like fight with somebody, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, I don't want to get into
Speaker 1: a big thing. And then yeah, this girl was just
Speaker 1: at the moment that the girl said it, Kara L
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this is perfect.
Speaker 2: But it was fun. It's also perfect that Jed, your
Speaker 2: other fellow biggest gossip was both of you were handling
Speaker 2: your business on either end well, and I said to him,
Speaker 2: I go, what did you say?
Speaker 1: And she goes he goes, well, she said, so you
Speaker 1: guys are just gonna cut, and I go, yeah, we are,
Speaker 1: and she was like okay. She just like respected it that.
Speaker 1: He just was like, yeah, I'm not going to fight
Speaker 1: you on this. I'm not gonna lie like we are
Speaker 1: kind of cutting. But honestly we were in line for
Speaker 1: five minutes and then we had to get into a
Speaker 1: separate will call line. I watched that girl walk in
Speaker 1: ten minutes before I could walk in, so it was
Speaker 1: like not, I didn't feel like we were horrible.
Speaker 3: Don't come for me line cutter people. I would have
Speaker 3: said something too too.
Speaker 1: I would have said something if it happened.
Speaker 2: To me, But sometimes you just do bad things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was here just being jerks. But like it was
Speaker 2: hello to that listener. It was lovely to meet your mom,
Speaker 2: and I hope you enjoyed the show. I had a
Speaker 2: great time at trickstin Katia. They were fabulous and I
Speaker 2: think they're continuing to tour. If you guys, if they
Speaker 2: come near your city, go see them. And you got
Speaker 2: the cheas box I did.
Speaker 1: If you guys checked out our stories a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago, you may have seen that I finally got
Speaker 1: the cheerios box with iced tea on it, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna let Rosie know who coach Ice is.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be really cute.
Speaker 2: And then obviously the worst thing was we know about
Speaker 2: is like the mask thing. I feel like I have
Speaker 2: to finally go get boosted because I'll be flying.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be flying.
Speaker 2: You gotta get boosted, girl. I'm going this week because
Speaker 2: if people are just gonna be maskless on tiny tiny
Speaker 2: fly its.
Speaker 1: Just come do it. I didn't even have a reaction.
Speaker 1: Even if you do, it'll be like five hours, like,
Speaker 1: you'll be fine.
Speaker 2: I don't care. I'm doing it. You don't even have
Speaker 2: to convince me anymore. I'm gonna do it. Well now
Speaker 2: I'll make a calendar and I don't think I will do.
Speaker 1: You watch Potomac, of course, but I'm not. There's not
Speaker 1: a new season as no, there's not. But Ashley Darby
Speaker 1: just filed for divorce from Michael. Oh thank god. I
Speaker 1: feel like I have to scream to Julia right now.
Speaker 1: I'm in my friend's apartment.
Speaker 2: Julia, Ashley Darby filed for divorce. We gotta woo wow.
Speaker 3: This is huge.
Speaker 2: Also, I haven't watched yet this is actually what I'm
Speaker 2: gonna do tonight, so maybe we'll have comments on it later.
Speaker 2: But Matt Rogers from less Culturista's fame, I'm a big
Speaker 2: fan of his, and I would say I think he's
Speaker 2: a bigger better friend to me than I like.
Speaker 3: I think I think about him more than he thinks
Speaker 3: about me.
Speaker 2: But he was on Watch What Happens Live with I
Speaker 2: heard Karen Huger looking fucking fabulous, So I cannot wait
Speaker 2: to watch that.
Speaker 3: I know I can't wait to watch either.
Speaker 1: At this point when this episode comes out, that'll be
Speaker 1: a little bit old, but like, go check out about
Speaker 1: Rogers on Watch What Happens Live?
Speaker 2: He is a star. I'm so glad Ashley's filing for divorce.
Speaker 2: That is, he was a bad man and a criminal.
Speaker 2: And the fact that Bravo continued to have like a
Speaker 2: sexual assault on the payroll.
Speaker 1: I feel like, I feel like maybe this is rude,
Speaker 1: but I feel like she was like, just get I
Speaker 1: just want a sibling for the kid and then get
Speaker 1: the hell out of here, you know, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: because she got pregnant real quick after that first one,
Speaker 1: and their marriage did not seem like it was going great.
Speaker 2: But it's also a reality show, so what are you?
Speaker 2: That is very my thing is So for those who
Speaker 2: don't know, Ashley did not grow up with her father,
Speaker 2: And then in the show first season maybe second, she
Speaker 2: goes to her bio daddy's house. He opens the door,
Speaker 2: seize it's her, and slams the door in her face.
Speaker 2: So for someone like her to then choose maybe not
Speaker 2: great mate makes sense to me. You know, when your
Speaker 2: dad doesn't want to see you and laughs and slams
Speaker 2: the door at you, and you want to finally meet
Speaker 2: your father, you're gonna end up with a weird Australian
Speaker 2: man who wants to serve ostriches to a marriage and
Speaker 2: pinch guys on the ass all the time. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: sheat and lie and also live in a tiny condo.
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, if you're doing it for the money,
Speaker 2: I get it, but you're in a condo just chugging coronas.
Speaker 2: I don't understand this life. And I'm glad that she
Speaker 2: is free. And she's a fucking babe.
Speaker 1: She's a young'sh gorgeous, She's so gorgeous it's crazy. And
Speaker 1: she seems like she's a great mom, but Anyway, congrats Ashley,
Speaker 1: if you're listening.
Speaker 3: Wait, we were talking before I got that big news.
Speaker 1: We were talking about the mask mandates been lifted on airplanes,
Speaker 1: so you're gonna go get boosted. Honestly, I'll probably still
Speaker 1: wear masks on planes a little bit, but I will
Speaker 1: take them down once I'm in my own little seat
Speaker 1: and I'm just like got my jacket kind of like
Speaker 1: over my face, like when I.
Speaker 2: Sleep, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Maybe in first class. I don't know. I just maybe
Speaker 3: in first class there's no germs up there.
Speaker 2: There's but the seats have like the barriers, like laid
Speaker 2: down seats are a little bit more aggressive. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: I just feel like if I'm traveling and it's a
Speaker 1: short trip and I can't get sick, like I've done
Speaker 1: so many little quick trips to New York where I'm like, fuck,
Speaker 1: I just got sick on that flight. Now I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like my baby shower for Rosie in New York,
Speaker 1: I was like sick the whole time because I'd gotten
Speaker 1: sick on the flight. So I don't know flights, I
Speaker 1: might keep them on, but a lot of people are pissed.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing a lot of epidemiologists on the old Twitter.
Speaker 1: They're mad, They're like, we shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 2: This, but of course they're mad, and this is my thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't want to wear a mask. We've
Speaker 2: I've been very clear. I do not love it as
Speaker 2: as much as all of you. I've gone to concerts
Speaker 2: and all of that, but like the celebrating, but also
Speaker 2: just like, so you want to be in a little
Speaker 2: tube for six plus hours with no mask with strangers, Like,
Speaker 2: how do you know someone's not flying with COVID and
Speaker 2: doesn't give a shit? Like, yeah, you don't know. You're
Speaker 2: gonna trust these lunatics I've seen, haven't you seen the
Speaker 2: photos of people with their toes? But moving through the
Speaker 2: movie screen, it's like people.
Speaker 1: Are absolutely unhinged on flights, Like it's gonna be You're
Speaker 1: gonna get sneezed on now now that the masks are gone.
Speaker 1: But I think my problem with this decision too, is
Speaker 1: that it was handed down by this judge in Florida
Speaker 1: who's some thirty five year old woman who's not has
Speaker 1: zero trial experience.
Speaker 2: She was appointed by Trump.
Speaker 1: She's a full like you know, hardcore Republican who like
Speaker 1: loves DeSantis, and she in her decision and was like,
Speaker 1: masks don't do anything.
Speaker 3: It's like, it's okay.
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to say numbers are down. Maybe
Speaker 1: we're at a place where now it can be an option.
Speaker 1: It's not a public health crisis anymore. That's like one
Speaker 1: thing to say that, it's another thing to say masks
Speaker 1: don't do anything. And the mask mandate was stupid from
Speaker 1: the beginning, Like that's what this woman is saying, and
Speaker 1: that's to me bullshit.
Speaker 2: I also don't understand how but this keeps happening. It's
Speaker 2: like the Mitch McConnell of it all, Like how is
Speaker 2: one person ruining our lives?
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of people were asking on Twitter too.
Speaker 1: They were like, how is one judge from Florida making
Speaker 1: this decision? I don't really get how that gets to happen.
Speaker 3: I don't either. This is not about masks.
Speaker 2: But I follow a tattoo artist and her partner on Instagram.
Speaker 3: I follow them. I have tattoos by her Emily Malice.
Speaker 5: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: They were staying at a hotel and across from them
Speaker 2: in a building there was a man playing a snare drum.
Speaker 2: From one to four in the morning, and they were like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? And then her partner posted that it's
Speaker 2: like an extortion tactic and people will play music outside
Speaker 2: and be like, if you give me four hundred dollars,
Speaker 2: I'll stop playing. And and he's by a hotel, so
Speaker 2: then it's like people might be more frivolous to spend
Speaker 2: money or their vacationing or a business trip the hotel.
Speaker 1: They might have to people scream down to the hotel
Speaker 1: and say, hey, get rid of this person or all.
Speaker 3: But can't they call the cops?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not I don't like, I don't advocate
Speaker 1: calling the cops on like non violent criminals really, but like,
Speaker 1: can't you threaten to call the cops and they'll get
Speaker 1: you for a noise complaint?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, I have no idea, but I
Speaker 2: guess because they were like, what the fuck, why is
Speaker 2: he doing this? And they did some research or someone
Speaker 2: let them know that it's an extortion tactic.
Speaker 3: Wow, to just.
Speaker 2: People finding out tonight? People finding out new ways to
Speaker 2: make money all the time.
Speaker 5: Huh.
Speaker 2: Well, I you know, I stayed in a luxurious hotel
Speaker 2: for a few days while I was here, in New
Speaker 2: York and I paid a little extra for a city
Speaker 2: view room. And I got to the room and it
Speaker 2: was truly looked at a building and I couldn't believe
Speaker 2: I was this person. But I called and I go, honey, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no, I'm either getting some discounted or you got
Speaker 2: to give me a city view.
Speaker 3: Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And the staff was incredible. They were like the best people.
Speaker 2: I really like loved everyone that worked there.
Speaker 3: But they moved me.
Speaker 2: But then it was a city view of Brooklyn, and
Speaker 2: I'm like this language, this is a trick. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is a trick. I'm in New York. You know what
Speaker 2: I want to look at? Okay, you know what I
Speaker 2: want to see it night? You know what fantasy I'm
Speaker 2: trying to create for myself? How dare you make me
Speaker 2: look at Brooklyn? But it was pretty, but I did
Speaker 2: feel tricked and did not love that. Did we talk
Speaker 2: about our hotel that we stayed at in Portland. We
Speaker 2: loved that hotel.
Speaker 3: It was really awesome.
Speaker 2: In the bar was grabbing the bar servers were really
Speaker 2: weird and I think you'd left already. But I had
Speaker 2: a Gatorade bottle with me. I was like whatever, I
Speaker 2: ordered drinks like everything was fine, but I had a
Speaker 2: Gatorade bottle with me and one of the servers came
Speaker 2: up to me and goes, is that your gatorade?
Speaker 3: And I went yeah, and he goes, can you put
Speaker 3: it underneath the table? And I was like okay.
Speaker 2: But then Julia, our friend, mentioned like, of course it's
Speaker 2: my gatorade. Why are you approaching me this way? No,
Speaker 2: it's not fine. I'm just hugging it with my hold
Speaker 2: gatorade for a stranger. It was just such an asshole
Speaker 2: move to be like is this your Gatorade? And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm holding it, but I'm also staying here and I
Speaker 2: don't know why you're treating me.
Speaker 1: Like shit, but yeah, Like if you're staying, if it's
Speaker 1: a hotel bar, it's like it's an extension of where
Speaker 1: you're staying. Like I wouldn't walk into like a nice
Speaker 1: restaurant with a gatorade, but like the hotel bar where
Speaker 1: you're staying at the end.
Speaker 2: It's it's midnight, it's like the end of the night.
Speaker 2: Well come on, and like Kara says, I love that shit.
Speaker 2: If I see a white glacier cherry Gatorade zero. There's
Speaker 2: no way I'm not buying it. But also you didn't
Speaker 2: know this, Like I ordered drinks, put my card down,
Speaker 2: and then you came and I wanted to run with
Speaker 2: you back up to the room to like just gossip
Speaker 2: and look through our presence. But they thought something was
Speaker 2: wrong with me, and they kept asking our friends, like
Speaker 2: what's wrong with her? Is everything okay? Is everything okay?
Speaker 2: And they just like didn't trust me for some reason
Speaker 2: because I just ran up to change and gossip with you.
Speaker 2: They were like suspicious of me, and I guess they
Speaker 2: like didn't trust me or something because I ran up
Speaker 2: and it's like I don't know what you want from me.
Speaker 5: That is weird.
Speaker 1: Oh, speaking of the gifts, though, I would like to
Speaker 1: say thank you to the woman who gave me and
Speaker 1: Lisa both these cute little pouches that say, forget being
Speaker 1: a princess, I want to be Olivia Benson. Rosie is
Speaker 1: now using it to keep all her gems in gems
Speaker 1: that Lisa has given her and I've given her, so
Speaker 1: now she has this cute little Benson bag of gems.
Speaker 2: Also, I did wear the underwear of that listener gave
Speaker 2: you too. She said it wasn't weird, and we're like,
Speaker 2: this is weird, but it was. It was almost wrapped
Speaker 2: up plastic when we opened it, like it was fully
Speaker 2: wrapped in packaging. And I washed it obviously before I
Speaker 2: wore it. But they were very comfortable.
Speaker 1: And another shout out to the Denver person who gave
Speaker 1: Rosie her drag squash mollow.
Speaker 2: She shows it to everyone that comes into her house
Speaker 2: and is obsessed.
Speaker 1: And all the gifts that you guys have given us
Speaker 1: have been so beautiful, but I really wanted to thank
Speaker 1: you guys for the pouch.
Speaker 2: Well you know what else in that pouch there was
Speaker 2: a pink like squashy oh. I came it to Rosie,
Speaker 2: I know, because you were like, what am I going
Speaker 2: to buy her? I have to bring her something? And
Speaker 2: I actually forgot to text you, but I took a
Speaker 2: photo of my there's a toy in here for her.
Speaker 1: No, and I went and I for I remembered as
Speaker 1: I was walking up to my gate, I go, fuck,
Speaker 1: I didn't get her anything. So then I'm there considering
Speaker 1: buying her this Delta plane that like makes noise, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't this will ruin my life.
Speaker 1: So I ended up buying her one of those magic
Speaker 1: marker books where like the marker like makes the pictures
Speaker 1: show up that you give to a kid to like
Speaker 1: busy their time on the plane.
Speaker 3: And then as I get home, I'm like, I had
Speaker 3: a toy with me the whole damn time.
Speaker 2: But that's okay. She got two she got two presents.
Speaker 2: But that was cute too.
Speaker 3: You guys are always thinking about my kids and helping
Speaker 3: me be a better mom.
Speaker 2: What else? That's it? I mean, you get started. We
Speaker 2: should definitely get started. It is a great episode. I
Speaker 2: went on a terrible date on Sunday.
Speaker 1: You cannot say, let's get started, and then I went
Speaker 1: on a terrible date.
Speaker 3: Liza, do you want to talk about it or do
Speaker 3: you want to tell me off camera?
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a cliffhanger for next week? You do
Speaker 2: you think anybody does?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen this week, and they're not coming back
Speaker 1: next week. I hope you guys come back every week. Jeez,
Speaker 1: let's kick off this episode. It's an awesome episode, and
Speaker 1: we will don't go anywhere. We'll be right here, all.
Speaker 2: Right, everybody, buckle up.
Speaker 1: We are doing Intoxicated, Season six, episode nineteen. We open
Speaker 1: on a couple rolling around under a floral comforter and
Speaker 1: you can tell it's a teens room. There's like oversized
Speaker 1: like lip kiss behind her and stuff like that. And
Speaker 1: then right away in walks the one and only Kathy Moriarty,
Speaker 1: a true like hero of mine from the movie Soap Dish.
Speaker 1: But I'm a cheerleader, and she is like in the
Speaker 1: middle of lecturing her kid for skipping school. But then
Speaker 1: she opens the door and sees that they're naked embed
Speaker 1: and screams, oh my god.
Speaker 2: And that was a good impression. We also wanted to
Speaker 2: say it is cool that we each are obsessed with Kathy,
Speaker 2: but in different ways totally different movies. Yeah, and we
Speaker 2: have not seen the opposite movie. Yes, so I think
Speaker 2: this is a room for a slumber party. Yes, for sure,
Speaker 2: I'm We're having a Kathy Moriarty theme slumber party.
Speaker 3: I need to see.
Speaker 1: But I'm ature leader, like very badly because it's a
Speaker 1: total blind spot that I haven't And Lisa's never seen
Speaker 1: soap Dish, which I think that she would truly love.
Speaker 2: Andrew Paul's in this one, and your's a star studded.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was a great impression. She plays a
Speaker 2: great wild woman and I can't wait to well, I
Speaker 2: know what happens, but keep it going.
Speaker 1: Well, So now we finally see this horny little couple
Speaker 1: go out from under the covers and the daughter is
Speaker 1: Danielle Panabaker, and it's like thirty seconds into the episode
Speaker 1: and we're already getting two stars.
Speaker 3: Wait, how do you know Danielle.
Speaker 1: Danielle Panabaker's from tons of stuff, Like my husband watches
Speaker 1: her in the flash, but I think she's wait, wait
Speaker 1: one minute, let me just it's not just some IMDb.
Speaker 2: Here, because she is, like you were a star studded.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I've never heard of this woman, Amo you haven't.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, she has three point eight million followers
Speaker 1: on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, I've to me she she had the
Speaker 2: potential of like a Lily Reinhart moment where it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: a popular white teen from the high school musical, you know,
Speaker 2: something like that. But like that's what I assumed. She
Speaker 2: was a team star. But who you're She's a legit
Speaker 2: bona fide working out well, She's literally worked a bunch
Speaker 2: and then did us for you. And then after like
Speaker 2: she was a regular on.
Speaker 1: A show called Necessary Roughness, which I think was on USA,
Speaker 1: but then also Justified. She was in a bunch of
Speaker 1: episodes of Justified.
Speaker 2: She's on Arrow.
Speaker 1: She plays this character named Caitlin slash Killer Frost on
Speaker 1: Arrow and The Flash, and so I've seen it because
Speaker 1: Jared watches The Flash.
Speaker 2: Well I be yeah, so I'm sure she's doing the
Speaker 2: superhero circuit.
Speaker 1: Yes, and she also she also guests in Supergirl, so
Speaker 1: I bet she knows our our man Chadlow who's directed
Speaker 1: Supergirl and is in Supergirl.
Speaker 2: So yeah, she is like well known I think for
Speaker 2: like the CW crowd not to know. There was no
Speaker 2: shade thrown at Danielle. You just real you just didn't
Speaker 2: ye star studded, and I was like, you gotta well,
Speaker 2: I wrote.
Speaker 1: So many stars thirty seconds in like thirty seconds and
Speaker 1: we're eating like the two big stars of the show,
Speaker 1: and there's like all this there's this generic Foo Fighter's
Speaker 1: music playing behind them, and the mom is yelling at
Speaker 1: them like what did he do to you? And it's
Speaker 1: like very clearly it's consensual sex here, Like what's the
Speaker 1: issue going on here? And the guy wants to bolt,
Speaker 1: and the mom's like, I don't think so, and grabs
Speaker 1: his clothes and walks out of the room and it's
Speaker 1: like very it's very like I think it's Kathy.
Speaker 2: Moriarty heightened sass.
Speaker 1: And then the next scene is like a regular cop
Speaker 1: walking Benson and Stabler through the whole situation.
Speaker 2: He's like, her name is Carrie Eldridge, she's locked in
Speaker 2: her room.
Speaker 1: She's crying that he's her boyfriend, but her mom's calling
Speaker 1: it a rape, and Stabler's like, you guys couldn't taken
Speaker 1: care of this, like come on, and they're like, we
Speaker 1: hear the R word we're supposed to call you, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just love how it's very like, okay,
Speaker 1: panty police is here, you know. And so the mom
Speaker 1: is there and she's like, why don't you just break
Speaker 1: down the door. I caught this man raping my daughter.
Speaker 1: And Olivia's like did she say she was raped?
Speaker 3: Like what's going on?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, we can't press charges over sex that
Speaker 1: was consensual. And then she drops the box, which is
Speaker 1: he's twenty one, she's fifteen, and listen, that's not great.
Speaker 1: That is not a great age difference, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't love that. I mean, Danielle Panabaker definitely looks older.
Speaker 1: I'm sure is older, but it's like, not in this context,
Speaker 1: that's not a good look for this boy whose name
Speaker 1: is Justin. And then they somehow get Kathy Moriarty, the
Speaker 1: mom named whose name is Denise in this episode. They
Speaker 1: get Denise to go down to the precinct and give
Speaker 1: a statement, and that kind of allows Benson to, you know, say, Carrie,
Speaker 1: come on, open the doors, Detective Benson, I'm your friend.
Speaker 1: And then Carrie's like, Justin and I were just kissing,
Speaker 1: and Justin has disappeared.
Speaker 2: He's gone out the window somewhere.
Speaker 1: Stabler goes outside and finds him shivering underneath a blanket,
Speaker 1: naked on the roof, and he's like a million in
Speaker 1: trouble and.
Speaker 2: He's like, are you twenty one? So he's arrested, baby,
Speaker 2: and then it's the credits. But he does look like
Speaker 2: an upstanding citizen, you know what I mean. He doesn't
Speaker 2: seem like a dirt bag, right, So that's what makes
Speaker 2: all of this so tough and gray and sv you worthy.
Speaker 1: Yes, And also I think that they try to make
Speaker 1: that like a little bit clear at the beginning, because
Speaker 1: at the very beginning, when they're like canoodling under the.
Speaker 2: Covers, it's like, you're so beautiful, I love you. Like
Speaker 2: they're very loving. It's not like a it doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like a, oh, I'm just gonna like molest this little
Speaker 2: girl and then bounce. But who knows men are wild?
Speaker 1: So Olivia now has Carrie an interrogation and she's just
Speaker 1: still claiming that they're kissing, and then Justin's was stabler.
Speaker 1: It's the classic gender divide interrogation, and they're both denying
Speaker 1: that any sex happened. And then they're doing a little
Speaker 1: bit of like a Romeo and Juliet moment where he's
Speaker 1: yelling through the wall like.
Speaker 2: I love you Carrie, and she's like, Justin, it's very
Speaker 2: you know, it's very CW. I'm loving it.
Speaker 1: And then Daddy Craigan is talking to Denise the mom
Speaker 1: and she doesn't get what Carrie sees in this kid,
Speaker 1: and he Craigan's like, what about her dad? And she's like,
Speaker 1: Carrie's dad bolted the second I told him I was pregnant,
Speaker 1: and she doesn't want that to happen to Carrie, and
Speaker 1: she thinks all justin wants a sex so you're not
Speaker 1: like jection, Yeah, you can tell she's got baggage about it.
Speaker 2: But also it's like, I would be nervous if Rosie
Speaker 2: was fifteen dating a twenty one year old. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be happy.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would be bringing the authorities
Speaker 1: into it, but I wouldn't be excited. And then Craigan's like,
Speaker 1: have you guys ever discussed counseling? And Denise's like, Carrie
Speaker 1: refuses to go. But then we switched scenes to Carrie going,
Speaker 1: my mom flipped out when I even suggested counseling. So
Speaker 1: you get this idea that someone's not really fully telling
Speaker 1: the truth, like someone's an unreliable narrator here. And then
Speaker 1: Carrie asks Olivia, like I heard about this kid who
Speaker 1: was able to divorce his parents, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's called emancipation.
Speaker 2: You know you'd have to she should hit up Stevie
Speaker 2: Lynn Jones, Yeah, about how to be an independent teen
Speaker 2: an independent teen woman who I think has a good
Speaker 2: relationship with her parents but just want to be an
Speaker 2: independent kid long hours.
Speaker 1: Yeah, She's like, abuse my labor restrictions. So she explains that,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't really just get emancipated. Your mom
Speaker 1: has to give up parental rights or you have to
Speaker 1: be like living on your own and supporting yourself. It's
Speaker 1: not quite as easy as just like peace out mom.
Speaker 1: So Carrie is like, I love justin I'm not just
Speaker 1: running away from my mommy issues.
Speaker 2: I swear like war in love.
Speaker 1: And then Benson calls them Romeo and Juliet, and Stabler's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but Juliet's too young and Romeo's too old, and it's like, actually, Stabler,
Speaker 1: I don't think you've ever read Shakespeare. Juliet is actually
Speaker 1: thirteen in Romeo is sixteen, so you're wrong. But I
Speaker 1: don't know how much Shakespeare they're getting over at, you know,
Speaker 1: Bayside whatever high school he went to on Staten Island
Speaker 1: or Queens Where does he go to school? Queen's So anyway,
Speaker 1: Cragan's like, there's no rape case here if they're both
Speaker 1: denying that sex happened, And suddenly we hear we hear
Speaker 1: Kathy Moriarty's like unmistakable voice being like Carrie, Carrie, did
Speaker 1: you tell them? And she's walking down the stairs from
Speaker 1: the the upstairs of the precinct just screaming at her daughter,
Speaker 1: who's on the lower floor, as if there's not a
Speaker 1: full room of cops trying to do their jobs below,
Speaker 1: and she's making a huge scene and Carrie's like, mom,
Speaker 1: please be quiet, like please chill out, like let's talk
Speaker 1: about this outside, and she's like you better stop seeing
Speaker 1: him and he and then Denise calls Carrie an ungrateful
Speaker 1: little slut and she tells Benson and Stable she wants
Speaker 1: just in charge for the crime. But they're like, we
Speaker 1: need either a statement from Carrie or medical evidence. And
Speaker 1: she's like medical evidence, how do I get that? And
Speaker 1: it's like you need to go to the hospital and
Speaker 1: get a rape kit and Carrie clearly does not want this,
Speaker 1: and Olivia tells Denise, you can't force her to do this,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm her mother, watch me whoa very intense.
Speaker 2: So she's gonna like force her daughter to get a
Speaker 2: rape kit. It's really yikes.
Speaker 1: And so they're at Bellevue now with surferdo doctor who
Speaker 1: we've seen before, this man who I do not think
Speaker 1: fits in as a Bellevue doctor, but that's just me.
Speaker 1: And he's explaining like a rape kit to Carrie. He's like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna swab you for you know, DNA, and if
Speaker 1: we find any of his semen inside of you, then
Speaker 1: like that's proof that sex happened. And she's like, but
Speaker 1: I said it didn't have and doesn't that count for anything?
Speaker 1: And they're like, not really actually, because your mom is nuts.
Speaker 1: And so just when they're about to start in walks
Speaker 1: Glenn Headley an actress that I have been obsessed with
Speaker 1: for like my entire life. She is from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels,
Speaker 1: which is one of my all time favorite movies. Lisa,
Speaker 1: I just discovered this about her. I didn't even know
Speaker 1: she was married to John Malkovich. Wow, and I know
Speaker 1: you're a fan. And then she divorced him after he
Speaker 1: had an affair with Michelle Feiffer while making dangerous liaisons. Wait,
Speaker 1: what isn't that wild Hollywood goss?
Speaker 2: That is so good?
Speaker 3: I can't So this affair is confirmed, and it's like
Speaker 3: out there, it was on with.
Speaker 1: It was on Wikipedia, and then there were all these like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's on her Wikipedia that she was married
Speaker 1: to John Malkovich and then they like and it's crazy
Speaker 1: because she was in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. And I think
Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty eight, and that was the same year
Speaker 1: as this like affair and everything. So just as her
Speaker 1: star is exploding, she finds out her husband's cheating and
Speaker 1: I love her so much and I was so I
Speaker 1: was actually like very devastated. She died in twenty seventeen
Speaker 1: at sixteen, and I was like very very sad when
Speaker 1: she passed away. I just have always thought she was
Speaker 1: such a great actress.
Speaker 2: Well, so what year was that movie, because now I'm
Speaker 2: I want to know when Michelle Pfeifer was already married,
Speaker 2: And it says she married David E. Kelly in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think this was late eighties, So I
Speaker 1: don't think she was yeah, yeah, because she's been with
Speaker 1: David E.
Speaker 2: Kelly forever. Yeah, and they're like a very talented little duo. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're like a hot Hollywood couple first and she's well,
Speaker 2: so you know, they're the movie game that I love,
Speaker 2: where like we all go in a circle and we
Speaker 2: list as many whatever. I got made fun of because
Speaker 2: during Doug Love's movies one time, the only Harrison Ford
Speaker 2: movie I knew was What Lies Beneath And so before
Speaker 2: we started playing the circle game. Someone was like, I
Speaker 2: just want to clarify. She only knows Harrison Ford from
Speaker 2: what Lies Beneath before we play this game. She does
Speaker 2: not know that movie Just you Know is one of
Speaker 2: the great nineties thrillers, unless those in the two thousands.
Speaker 2: But I love I love John Malcovich, I love Glenn Hedley,
Speaker 2: and I have David E. Kelly, and I just I
Speaker 2: love that you uncovered all of this.
Speaker 1: I had no idea, and I'm like a very I'm
Speaker 1: like an old Glenn Headley fan, and I just did
Speaker 1: not know she was married to John Malkovich.
Speaker 2: So I love this goss and arrested and he.
Speaker 3: Does look like a cheater. I heard he's an asshole.
Speaker 3: I do I have heard.
Speaker 1: Well, it was funny because all of the site sources
Speaker 1: that were cited on Wikipedia were like I'm John Malkovich,
Speaker 1: I do what I want or whatever, like I didn't
Speaker 1: actually get to read all of them, but it was
Speaker 1: like seemed like it was, you know, confirming it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But and all of his characters are like very cocky.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, he plays cocky, know it all very very
Speaker 2: well for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: So she breezes in Glenn Hedley and tells everyone she
Speaker 1: carries attorney Simone Bryce and that this rape kit ain't happening,
Speaker 1: and Denise is pissed. She's like, she doesn't have a lawyer,
Speaker 1: and she tells Simone to shut up, and Benson goes,
Speaker 1: take your daughter home, and she's like, my daughter's been violated.
Speaker 2: Whose side are you on?
Speaker 1: And Benson just like takes a second and goes hers
Speaker 1: and it's like a very classic Benson Burne that I love.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so this lawyer kind of showed up just
Speaker 1: in the nick of time. Back at the precincts, Elliot
Speaker 1: and Olivia are kind of arguing over the ethics of
Speaker 1: the whole thing as they are wont to do. Olivia
Speaker 1: wants what's best for Carrie, but Elliot's like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: it is a crime, Like we got to go buy
Speaker 1: the book. And Olivia just thinks the mom is using
Speaker 1: the cops to control her daughter, and would you do
Speaker 1: that to your daughters, like put them down on a
Speaker 1: medical table and like have their legs spread open forcibly.
Speaker 2: To have a test like this done. And he's like,
Speaker 2: my daughters have nothing to do with this, and it's
Speaker 2: just a you know, the classic tense back and forth
Speaker 2: between them. Well, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3: It's convenient.
Speaker 2: It's not about your daughters unless you want to make
Speaker 2: it about your kids that we always do. All right,
Speaker 2: it's so true, that's so true. It's like, yeah, then
Speaker 2: my daughter's nothing to do with this.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, I'm a father of five kids,
Speaker 1: like and then it's relevant, you know, whenever he says.
Speaker 1: But Craigan arrives and he's got a stern Olivia my
Speaker 1: office and it's like ret row, Daddy is pissed, so
Speaker 1: we are in trouble. And he's like, Denise has gone
Speaker 1: to one PP to say that you talked her daughter
Speaker 1: out of a rape kit, and Craigan's like, it's kind
Speaker 1: of funny how this child's writes attorney showed up just
Speaker 1: at the nick of time. And Olivia's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: the one who called her. And she doesn't like how
Speaker 1: Denise humiliated carry in front of the whole squad with
Speaker 1: the screaming, and Craigan is on team Denise. He's like,
Speaker 1: she believes a crime has been perpetrated on her daughter
Speaker 1: and we have to investigate that, like that's literally what
Speaker 1: we do. And Olivia calls Denise a fruitcake and Stabler goes, well,
Speaker 1: dessert is served, and then he moves out of the way,
Speaker 1: and we see Denise as standing in the precinct, you know.
Speaker 2: Ready to rock again.
Speaker 1: And she comes in locked and loaded with these jizzed
Speaker 1: on sheets and a comforter and she's like, I've also
Speaker 1: got all these emails from Carrie to Justin and they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: but does this say anything about sex and she's like.
Speaker 2: No, but it's a proof of a relationship.
Speaker 1: And they're like, we can't, like this comforter is not
Speaker 1: the smoking gun that you think it is, and she's like,
Speaker 1: but his fluids are probably everywhere and it's like yeah,
Speaker 1: but they have to actually be on or inside of
Speaker 1: Carrie to charge for this rape. And they can charge
Speaker 1: for in danger the welfare of a minor, but Craigan
Speaker 1: said that's a weak case and the DA might not prosecute,
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, I guess I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: talk to the DA. She is like truly a Karen
Speaker 1: of Karen's, like, she keeps moving up. She's already gone
Speaker 1: to one PP and now she's going to the Eightya.
Speaker 1: She's like, I'll talk to whever I have to fucking
Speaker 1: talk to so that this kid does not sleep with
Speaker 1: my daughter again. So they go talk to Novak and
Speaker 1: she's like, thanks for sending Denise my way. She blew
Speaker 1: in here with her shopping bag of soiled linens and
Speaker 1: wanted me to arrest you guys for not arresting Justin,
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, what are you gonna do? And
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, you guys need to let Denise know
Speaker 1: that if, like, unless she has like photographic evidence, I'm
Speaker 1: not prosecuting Justin for this. So everybody's kind of on
Speaker 1: Justin's side, it feels like, except for Craigan, who's with Denise.
Speaker 1: So they go to Denise's apartment to kind of break
Speaker 1: the news to her that they're not going to press charges.
Speaker 1: Don't know why this couldn't be a phone call, and
Speaker 1: a neighbor leans out of the window and.
Speaker 2: Is like, are you the police? I called an hour
Speaker 2: ago about the ruckus from the apartment upstairs, Like he's
Speaker 2: very dramatic, this this actor, and they're like, uh oh,
Speaker 2: a ruckus. So they rush upstairs.
Speaker 1: They find the apartment door open, there's blood spatter all
Speaker 1: over the wall, and then dunt On Denise is lying
Speaker 1: dead in the kitchen in a pool of blood, and
Speaker 1: then Stabler just goes Romeo and Julia kill themselves, not
Speaker 1: their parents.
Speaker 2: End of act one. Wow, Wow, any thoughts before we
Speaker 2: keep going. I'm just sad we're not going to see
Speaker 2: where Kathy Moore are. Honestly, it's like obviously in the episodes,
Speaker 2: not as true. That is not as fun.
Speaker 3: Denise, but she comes in.
Speaker 2: I wanted to see her in court, babe, you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to see her slap Novak across the face,
Speaker 2: spit on a judge, like I had a whole fantasy
Speaker 2: built in.
Speaker 1: But she's great because she's so funny, but she also
Speaker 1: can be so villainous, Like she's a really versatile lady.
Speaker 2: Very versatile. But you know, obviously this AD's to the
Speaker 2: to the episode. We want a dead body ten minutes in.
Speaker 3: Obviously it's true.
Speaker 1: So now next scene, we've got our Cudio Haller in there.
Speaker 1: He's like, I found the murder weapon. It's a big
Speaker 1: ass lamp and we found it in the incinerator room.
Speaker 1: And Warner is there too, and she's like her skull
Speaker 1: was cracked wide open, Like this was not like an
Speaker 1: oops a daisy fall like she got fully attacked. They're
Speaker 1: still looking for missing pieces of her skull. She had
Speaker 1: five blows to the head, plus wounds to her torso
Speaker 1: and extremities. She's been dead for two hours tops, so
Speaker 1: Olivia Buston and she's like, Carrie school said she was
Speaker 1: in homeroom this morning and now they're looking for her.
Speaker 1: Justin's not scheduled to work today, and they find a
Speaker 1: men's coat on the bed and they're like, it's got
Speaker 1: to be Justin's. So then Benson a stabler get called
Speaker 1: to the scene of like a car theft where the
Speaker 1: suspects fit Carrie and Justin's description. This young mom is
Speaker 1: sitting there with her kid and she's like, I was
Speaker 1: putting my baby in the car.
Speaker 2: They took my car.
Speaker 1: The guy had blood on his shirt and the girl
Speaker 1: was screaming, please don't take me, we have to go back, etc.
Speaker 1: And then suddenly the anti crime unit radios them and goes,
Speaker 1: we just spotted the car, and then Ben's and his
Speaker 1: stabler are like, don't engage, we're on our way.
Speaker 2: But also now we learn that she was right. I
Speaker 2: guess Justin did suck like she's dead in a pile
Speaker 2: of blood, like, I guess she was onto something. Well
Speaker 2: that's what we think, yeah, for sure. And you know,
Speaker 2: also like carjacking a young mom seems like not a
Speaker 2: great move either, I mean, you know. But so the
Speaker 2: anti crime unit's bout of the car.
Speaker 1: They stopped this Volvo station Wagon and in the front
Speaker 1: seat is a couple that could easily be Carrie and Justin,
Speaker 1: but isn't that they're like lookalikes kind of, And the
Speaker 1: guy says, oh, whoa my friend Justin and I just
Speaker 1: switched cars. He's like, he's in my car, a ninety
Speaker 1: nine Mitsubishi that's silver. And they're like, is this your phone?
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, it's also Justin's phone. We switched
Speaker 1: phones too, Like what are you talking about? And he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: because he only has local service. And I actually do
Speaker 1: remember that my first like singular wireless phone had only Connecticut,
Speaker 1: Massachusetts and like Rhode Island, Like if I went into
Speaker 1: New York City, I was roaming, so I have been
Speaker 1: there before where I would probably have to switch phones
Speaker 1: with someone if I was going to plan a getaway.
Speaker 1: So the last person that the phone called was Simone Bryce.
Speaker 1: So now Olivia is talking to her and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not giving up any information to you. You know,
Speaker 1: it's all privileged, bitch, and Olivia is like and.
Speaker 2: She seems stoned as fuck, like the whole time, she's
Speaker 2: so relaxed, just like Olivia, you know, I can't do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. She's that's like her acting style too,
Speaker 2: which I kind of like.
Speaker 1: So it's just like very chill, and she like, Olivia
Speaker 1: is like, you're obstructing justice. And Simone's like, Olivia, you
Speaker 1: don't even know that I know anything, so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not obstructing shit, and Olivia's like, fuck, you got me,
Speaker 1: And so Novak confirms what she's talking about. She's like,
Speaker 1: she cannot break privilege unless Carrie calls her and says
Speaker 1: I've been kidnapped. Like so Olivia is like, well, then
Speaker 1: sebpoena Simone's phone records, and Casey's considering it, and then
Speaker 1: she's like, well, actually her conversations are privileged, but the
Speaker 1: numbers of the incoming calls are not privileged. So now
Speaker 1: we're at Taru with our our buddy Joel de la
Speaker 1: Fuente aka Rubin Morales, and he's telling them about how
Speaker 1: the phone company's in the process of dumping the phones,
Speaker 1: and meanwhile they're checking out the texts from Justin's phones,
Speaker 1: and Justin's phone has texts that say Justin saying we
Speaker 1: should move in together, and Carrie's saying over my mother's
Speaker 1: dead body.
Speaker 2: Done.
Speaker 3: Done. So then they're like, oh, right, done, But let's
Speaker 3: not pretend that's not a saying. It's not what I
Speaker 3: mean exactly.
Speaker 1: Olivia's like it was Carrie's idea, and it's like, don't
Speaker 1: jump to conclusions.
Speaker 3: That's literally a saying for sure, that does it.
Speaker 1: I don't think that would hold up in court as
Speaker 1: like a full like murder plot is a one text
Speaker 1: that says that colloquialism. So then the info comes into
Speaker 1: Taru and he's like, okay, here's we call the phone
Speaker 1: three times, here's where it's been paying one is like Katona.
Speaker 2: I like know where these places are because it's kind
Speaker 2: of near where I grew.
Speaker 1: Up Katona, and then another place upstate, and then finally
Speaker 1: they they realize that they're basically just headed upstate, so
Speaker 1: they find this local.
Speaker 2: Payphone where they made a phone call from. I don't
Speaker 2: know how they found the payphone but anyway, the local
Speaker 2: cop shows up and helps them out a little. You
Speaker 2: don't think in season six there are payphones.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, there were payphones. But I just don't
Speaker 1: know how they knew that they made a phone call
Speaker 1: from a payphone. Oh, because it was to Simone's self. Sorry,
Speaker 1: it was to Simone's thing. That's how they found out
Speaker 1: they were making a call from a payphone to Simone
Speaker 1: and it was in this town. They go to this
Speaker 1: little town. The local cop like tries to help them out.
Speaker 1: He's like, I showed up, but they're long gone. And
Speaker 1: then they're like, let's go to the town's tiny restaurant,
Speaker 1: see if they know anything.
Speaker 2: Like it's very funny to me, like just separate fork
Speaker 2: in the case where they're like, let's go check out
Speaker 2: this tavern. And they show a picture to the owner
Speaker 2: and he's like Justin, and he tells them he knows
Speaker 2: Justin's family. He used to work at that restaurant. He's
Speaker 2: got a family house up there, Ding ding ding. So
Speaker 2: they go and they find Justin's family's cabin. They surrounded,
Speaker 2: it's snowy. They both come out of the cabin, Carrie
Speaker 2: and Justin, and then they arrest Justin for kidnapping. So
Speaker 2: everybody's safe and sound, but what will happen now? So
Speaker 2: they have Justin an interrogation.
Speaker 1: They slap down a couple of risly photos of Denise's murder.
Speaker 1: He is being represented by Hattie, Trevor Langan, mister Hargateay
Speaker 1: and Stabler's all up in Justin's face and he just
Speaker 1: keeps like, very calmly, being like I did not do it,
Speaker 1: like I did not kill this person. And then Craigan's like,
Speaker 1: so was it Carrie's idea? And he goes, no, it
Speaker 1: was her lawyers, So what was her lawyer's idea?
Speaker 2: Murder? Like what you know?
Speaker 1: It's very uh, what's going on? Simone getting more involved?
Speaker 1: So now Olivia is talking to Carrie and Simone, who's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I told her emancipation is easier if the parents are
Speaker 1: dead and there's no guardian. I wasn't suggesting she murder
Speaker 1: her mother. And Carrie is like not budging. She's like,
Speaker 1: I love Justin. He's all I have. I will not
Speaker 1: say that he did anything. So now they are kind
Speaker 1: of at an impasse. This is a little bit like
Speaker 1: the ident What happened in Identity it's like, you can't
Speaker 1: say which one of them did it, So I guess
Speaker 1: it would be double jeopardy if you charged one of
Speaker 1: them and then found out it was the other one.
Speaker 2: So anyway, but you know, there's like laws where if
Speaker 2: you're in the room and a crime takes place and
Speaker 2: you didn't stop it, you will be charged like you
Speaker 2: did it. You don't even have to be holding the knife, Like,
Speaker 2: if you're there not stopping it, you are held responsible.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Trump just put a guy to
Speaker 1: death who was involved in a really grizzly murder, but
Speaker 1: he didn't murder anyone.
Speaker 2: He was just there and this guy just got the
Speaker 2: death penalty.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Novak is like, listen, if Carrie doesn't give
Speaker 1: up what happened, the case against Justin is totally circumstantial.
Speaker 1: She's like, what I would love if you guys have
Speaker 1: a second is those bloody clothes. And they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: those could be anywhere from like here to fucking Syracuse,
Speaker 1: Like we have no idea where those bloody clothes are.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, why don't you talk to Carrie
Speaker 1: and Justin's like work friends and people in their lives
Speaker 1: and see if they can fight it in anyone. So
Speaker 1: now they're at Carrie's high school and the principal is like,
Speaker 1: no one saw carry after second period, but you know,
Speaker 1: she has been having a lot of problems. She's been
Speaker 1: absent a lot, falling asleep in class, trouble focusing, and
Speaker 1: Finn is like, sounds like drugs to me, and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: her mom had her tested, which is yeah, obvious, she's
Speaker 1: like a full warden. And she's like everything came back negative.
Speaker 1: And they're like, what are you going to be a
Speaker 1: full warden? I don't think so I'm going to try
Speaker 1: to be more chill because I think when you're a
Speaker 1: warden it just makes kids rebell even harder.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna be like, let's smoke a thing together. No,
Speaker 2: I'm kidding, Jared would kill you. Oh my god, digrettes
Speaker 2: with Rosie if he came home and Rosie and I
Speaker 2: were just like gabbing around an ashtray. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I don't even smoke everybody. I'm just saying we would
Speaker 2: all be taking the stand. And yeah, in a murder trial, yes,
Speaker 2: on a last would be called to testify.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So they're like Okay, what about her friends? What's what's
Speaker 1: Carrie's like social stitch about? And they're like, she doesn't
Speaker 1: really have any She doesn't have any friends. She also
Speaker 1: didn't have a winter coat.
Speaker 2: And one of the teachers centered to my office recently
Speaker 2: because her shoes were falling apart, and they they're like,
Speaker 2: did you tell her mom? And she's like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: called her. She didn't really give a shit.
Speaker 1: But when Carrie skipped school, Denny's fully flipped out and
Speaker 1: sent a truant officer to the store where Justin works.
Speaker 3: So it's weird where her priorities are.
Speaker 2: She doesn't care for a daughter has a winter coat
Speaker 2: in a New York winter, but does care that she's
Speaker 2: hooking up with this boy who's older.
Speaker 3: So also, our truant officer is the thing.
Speaker 2: I think. So I don't think we had them where
Speaker 2: I grew up, but I think they exist in other
Speaker 2: places wild. Yeah, like people there, it's just their job
Speaker 2: to like chase down kids that are.
Speaker 5: Not in school.
Speaker 2: I don't know how that even works, but.
Speaker 1: I'm sure someone listening is like, my uncle's a truant
Speaker 1: officer and we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2: How does that work? And now they're at Justin's like
Speaker 2: computer job. I can't tell if he works for like
Speaker 2: Geek Squad or something comparable. It's like a computer job,
Speaker 2: but you don't really see like what it is.
Speaker 1: And the boss is telling the cops like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: told Justin that Carrie's not allowed to be here when
Speaker 1: she's skipping school, like I don't want trouble with the
Speaker 1: truant officer and he says, you know what, Justin's a
Speaker 1: hard worker.
Speaker 2: He's great with the customers. He's always on time.
Speaker 1: I would be promoting him, but he spends too much
Speaker 1: time talking to Carrie on the webcam. And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: what happened yesterday? And the guy says, he came in
Speaker 1: at ten, he left at ten fifteen, he called back
Speaker 1: at two o'clock and asked for the rest of the
Speaker 1: week off, so sketchy. And then they're like, do you
Speaker 1: have those webcam conversations recorded? And he's like, yeah, they're
Speaker 1: probably on our servers. So now we're seeing the webcam
Speaker 1: conversation and it's Carrie calling Justin and begging him to
Speaker 1: come over.
Speaker 2: She's like please, I need you, I need you come over.
Speaker 1: It's very whiny, it kind of annoyed me, but she's
Speaker 1: He's like, fine, I'm coming. So he hangs up, and
Speaker 1: then when you wait a second on the video, you
Speaker 1: see Carrie stand up and she's covered in blood on
Speaker 1: her shirt. So the cops are like, oh shit, Carrie
Speaker 1: was there first, like Carrie was involved in this murder.
Speaker 1: But Justin when he gets to the precinct, is completely
Speaker 1: unwilling to give carry up in any way, even though
Speaker 1: there's like full proof there, and his lawyer's like, dude,
Speaker 1: they know that you're innocent.
Speaker 2: This would be the time to talk. He's like, absolutely not.
Speaker 2: I will say nothing against my team.
Speaker 3: So maybe is a krimin. How does he know all this?
Speaker 2: Maybe he's took a criminal justice class at the community college.
Speaker 3: Because he is. He did have a whole plan set up.
Speaker 1: He was very like, if we both don't talk, nothing
Speaker 1: can happen, Like they can't accuse one.
Speaker 2: Of us if we both don't talk. But yeah, they
Speaker 2: got busted by this webcam. Shit, I don't know. She
Speaker 2: probably should have just texted him.
Speaker 1: So Carrie and Simone are in interrogation and Olivia is like,
Speaker 1: your client has been lying, and she pretends like Justin
Speaker 1: has flipped, even though he fully refused to flip. She's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Justin just told us everything. And she really turns the
Speaker 1: screws on Carrie and is like, yeah, it's like you
Speaker 1: know when Justin walks because you did everything, And she
Speaker 1: confesses to everything, and her lawyer keeps telling her shut
Speaker 1: the fuck up, shut the fuck up, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I don't even care.
Speaker 2: Justin doesn't love me anymore. Nothing's worth it. Just who
Speaker 2: cares if I go to jail, I did it. I
Speaker 2: killed my mom.
Speaker 1: So then they take her out, you know, in her handcuffs,
Speaker 1: to go to probably just like a holding cell, and
Speaker 1: they run into Justin, which is more of that hilarious
Speaker 1: TV magic that we see where suspects are always running
Speaker 1: into each other in an open place, and Justin's like,
Speaker 1: I never said anything. And then Carrie realizes that Olivia
Speaker 1: straight up lied to her, and she like comes for
Speaker 1: her and she keeps calling her, you lying bitch, Like
Speaker 1: she calls her a lying bitch like three or four times,
Speaker 1: and it's fun.
Speaker 2: And her lawyer is like, yeah, that do that. I
Speaker 2: told you to keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 3: She's like, can the cops lie?
Speaker 2: And she's like absolutely, and that's why I was telling
Speaker 2: you to shut up.
Speaker 1: And Olivia looks very shook, like because I think that
Speaker 1: she was trying to look out for Carrie, and like,
Speaker 1: now this girl is screaming bloody murder at her. So
Speaker 1: the next scene, Olivia's in the precinct and Stabler's just
Speaker 1: getting back from court and she's like, well, what happened,
Speaker 1: And she's like, Carrie's been remanded to Bridges and they're like,
Speaker 1: at least it's not Rikers. So that makes me feel
Speaker 1: like maybe that's some kind of female facility or something.
Speaker 1: I should probably look it up, but I haven't. And
Speaker 1: then in walks Novak to tell them that Carrie is
Speaker 1: pursuing a psych defense. She is claiming that pre menstrual
Speaker 1: dysform disorder, also known as PMDD, is the cause of
Speaker 1: what happened. And Stabler, you know, always a feminist, was like, oh,
Speaker 1: PMS made her do it, And then you know, Wog
Speaker 1: pipes up with the actual facts and he's like, this.
Speaker 2: Isn't about PMS.
Speaker 1: Like women with PMDD actually do get severe headaches, depression, paranoia,
Speaker 1: and the headaches can even cause like hallucinations, and Olivia's
Speaker 1: like it was definitely anger that made her kill her mom,
Speaker 1: and she's like, so she's gonna just get off because
Speaker 1: of this twinkie defense.
Speaker 3: What's a twinkie defense?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I fall like fluff full of fluff and cream I
Speaker 1: guess never expires even in the apocalypse.
Speaker 2: I don't know are Twinkie's good or not? Like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I can't find.
Speaker 1: My thing is with the Twinkie is I do like
Speaker 1: the Hostess cream because it's the same that goes into
Speaker 1: the Black cupcakes that I like, and like all the
Speaker 1: Devil Dogs and all the other well that's Drake's.
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's a good cream, but I don't like the sponge
Speaker 1: cake around it. I don't think that that's good.
Speaker 3: Annalie sent to something.
Speaker 2: The twinkie defense is a derisive derisive. That's not a word.
Speaker 2: It's a derisive label for an improbable legal defense. Derisive
Speaker 2: is a word I've never heard. I keep wanting to
Speaker 2: say divisive. It's kind of the same word. It is
Speaker 2: not a recognized legal defense in jurisprudence, but a catch
Speaker 2: oh I'm gonna name my future Corgi jurisprudence, but a
Speaker 2: catch all term coined by reporters during their coverage of
Speaker 2: the trial of defendant Dan White for the murders. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, Harvey Milk, Oh my gosh, so Harvey Milts
Speaker 2: killers said that he suffered diminished capacity as a result
Speaker 2: of his depression, a system of which was a change
Speaker 2: in diet from healthy food to twinkies and other sugary foods.
Speaker 5: Oh so, it's.
Speaker 2: Literally not even about defense. It's not even about twinkies
Speaker 2: being like fluff.
Speaker 1: It's about this guy said eating twinkies made him depress,
Speaker 1: Like eating twinkies in his depression made him kill.
Speaker 2: Wow, I think you were just homophobic, sir. But oh yeah,
Speaker 2: someone who eats when they're depressed, I'll tell you never
Speaker 2: once have I wanted a murder. If anything, I'm full
Speaker 2: of love when I'm mean yeah food, Yeah, I'm like
Speaker 2: laying and can't function. Wow, the tweaky defense is real cool. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm glad we got I'm glad that Ane's was able
Speaker 2: to come in with the break. It's not a metaphor.
Speaker 2: It's like legit, you know, Capit be there, Novac being
Speaker 2: like actually in this case, blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, Chambers.
Speaker 1: So Benson's all this twinkie defense and Novak's like, not
Speaker 1: on my watch, Huang, get your ass in there and
Speaker 1: examine her. So now she's having a Carrie's having a
Speaker 1: session with Wong, and she's describing her migraine severe mood swings,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I was always okay for like the
Speaker 1: ten days after my period. There's always like a reprieve
Speaker 1: period in PMDD where you feel okay. And then like
Speaker 1: when asked if she told her mom about it, she's like,
Speaker 1: my mom said, I was being a drama queen. The
Speaker 1: doctor told me to take a muscle relax and in
Speaker 1: a heating pad, which is part of a larger symptom
Speaker 1: of how doctors ignore women's pain all the time. This
Speaker 1: kind of stuff I just saw like a slide through
Speaker 1: Instagram about this recently, a carousel. It was all these
Speaker 1: people telling their stories like I went to a doctor
Speaker 1: for years with my stomach pain and they kept telling
Speaker 1: me to take tombs and I had stomach cancer. Like
Speaker 1: all these like accounts of women just being like doctors
Speaker 1: didn't listen to me.
Speaker 2: Doctor, And it was the New York Times. It was
Speaker 2: a New York Times. Yes, that's what I just like
Speaker 2: an if no grap you know. And we talked about
Speaker 2: this with UH with black people and doctors just being
Speaker 2: pieces of shit. I mean, I have several doctors in
Speaker 2: my family. I do love doctors.
Speaker 1: I just think that there does need to be more
Speaker 1: attention paid to how women doctor and the pain of yeah,
Speaker 1: the pain of of you know, like people of color,
Speaker 1: and the pain of women is often ignored.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's just like women are so used to pain in
Speaker 2: their day to day existence that they're just able to
Speaker 2: take it. And then men just can't handle even a
Speaker 2: side effect of a birth control, you know, like right,
Speaker 2: and so they're so dramatic and crying, and so that's
Speaker 2: why they're taken serious.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, I just don't get it. I
Speaker 3: don't get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like one of the main slides on that New
Speaker 2: York Times thing was like women go through enormous pain
Speaker 2: with like childbirth and period issues and all kinds of
Speaker 2: stuff that when they come to you with a with
Speaker 2: like a pain problem, you probably should listen to them.
Speaker 1: They're used to ignoring pain like in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: you know, so when they are actually taking it to
Speaker 1: a doctor. They're serious.
Speaker 2: But she's got all this, you.
Speaker 1: Know, information that kind of fits exactly into this PMDD defense,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I did feel angry towards my mom.
Speaker 1: My mom didn't want me to be happy, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to love anyone except for herself, and
Speaker 1: she doesn't know if her mother loved her.
Speaker 2: And then she's also I'm curious with PMDD, like are
Speaker 2: they like hatching up a defense altogether? Like how do
Speaker 2: they even bring this up? Did she know to lie
Speaker 2: about it? Or is she sitting trying to come up
Speaker 2: with a lie or do they believe it? You know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, how does PMDD come up in
Speaker 2: the convo? Is my kind of question with her lawyer?
Speaker 1: You mean, yeah, well, I'm sure maybe the lawyer is
Speaker 1: going over with her like we got to go through
Speaker 1: your medical history like extensively to see if there's anything,
Speaker 1: you know, and she's.
Speaker 2: Probably like, oh, I get horrible periods, and they're like boom,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, she also says, I don't remember anything. One
Speaker 1: second I was talking to my mom and the next
Speaker 1: she's lying on the floor in a pool of blood.
Speaker 1: And then she goes and I was so sleepy. So
Speaker 1: it is hard to know if she's selling the truth
Speaker 1: because everything is like fitting so perfectly into what Hoong
Speaker 1: just described.
Speaker 3: But Huang is buying it.
Speaker 2: Huang is like she's got all the classic symptoms, and
Speaker 2: Novak is worried that the jury will also buy it.
Speaker 1: So you know, this is throwing a wrench into their case.
Speaker 1: So now in court, Justin is on the stand describing
Speaker 1: what happened. He said after it happened, Carrie was a zombie.
Speaker 1: She could barely walk. He was like dragging her, and
Speaker 1: he said that Carrie was like doctor jekyline mister Hyde,
Speaker 1: like she would all the time, be fine one second
Speaker 1: and then totally lose it.
Speaker 2: So I guess I'm more I guess PMDD every day.
Speaker 1: So Novak asks, well, did Carrie tell you that she
Speaker 1: killed her mother? And he hesitates, and Judge Petrowski's like,
Speaker 1: you got to answer, and he's like, I won't answer,
Speaker 1: and she's like, well you better answer or you're going
Speaker 1: to get contemptive court. And he's like, do what you
Speaker 1: gotta do. I love her and I'm not saying anything
Speaker 1: bad about her. And then he gets taken away for
Speaker 1: contemptive court, and he says, I love you to carry
Speaker 1: on the way out. And now outside of the courthouse,
Speaker 1: Olivia and Melinda run into each other and Melinda mentions, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm here for your case. I guess now they want
Speaker 1: to dirty up the mom and portray her as a drunk,
Speaker 1: and we all know for Olivia Benson, this strikes a chord.
Speaker 1: And she's like wearing a beret and she's like, excuse him, MOOI.
Speaker 1: And so she asks Warner what's going on. She's like,
Speaker 1: was her alcohol level? She's like, no, her blood alcohol
Speaker 1: was normal on like the day she died, but she
Speaker 1: had advanced soorrhosis, so another two years it would have
Speaker 1: killed her. And she's like, are you sure it's the drinking,
Speaker 1: And Warner's like, I didn't find any hepatitis, so it's.
Speaker 2: Gotta be booze.
Speaker 1: And so now Olivia goes to the Eldridge apartment and
Speaker 1: starts digging around and she somehow this is very funny
Speaker 1: TV moment for me, She somehow finds like thirty bottles
Speaker 1: of shitty vodka. But there was a murder in that apartment,
Speaker 1: like the cops would have found at least some of
Speaker 1: these bottles, Like they tore this apartment apart, but Olivia's
Speaker 1: like in the hamper, like she's finding all these like
Speaker 1: secret hiding places.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe they weren't looking for it, because like let's
Speaker 2: say they're looking for evidence for a murder and they
Speaker 2: maybe they did find this booze, but it didn't matter
Speaker 2: to whatever was happening. Yeah, it just seemed to me
Speaker 2: like the amount that they found was like there might
Speaker 2: be an issue here, like this is a lot of vodka.
Speaker 2: Olivia was triggered by this woman before we find out
Speaker 2: the booze, like she just knew before she knew this.
Speaker 1: Was definitely like Neil Bher being like, let's dive into
Speaker 1: a little bit more of Olivia's pass through this episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, ye for sure.
Speaker 1: So Stabler shows up at the same apartment, no clue why,
Speaker 1: and he's like, Olivia says, no wonder, I hated Denise.
Speaker 1: She didn't care about Carrie at all. She only cares
Speaker 1: about her next drink. And they're sort of like chatting,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's like, why did you come here?
Speaker 1: And she's kind of like I had a hunch or whatever.
Speaker 1: So then he finds birth control pills taped under the counter,
Speaker 1: and Olivia pops them open. Meanwhile, I can't look at
Speaker 1: my birth control pills and even figure out like what
Speaker 1: day it is. She pops it open and immediately is like,
Speaker 1: holy shit, this is a smoking gun. She realizes that
Speaker 1: Carrie was on day six of her period, which means
Speaker 1: that she was in the middle of her normal cycle,
Speaker 1: because I guess that normal ten day period starts about
Speaker 1: day four of your period, so that means that she
Speaker 1: was in her normal week and she wouldn't have had
Speaker 1: any at PMDD symptoms. And Olivia accuses Simon of planting
Speaker 1: this to in Carrie's head, but Simone says, she tied
Speaker 1: my hands. She wouldn't let me tell the whole story,
Speaker 1: and Olivia is like about the drinking, so that.
Speaker 2: Shows that the team did love her mom deep down,
Speaker 2: like didn't want to like smeth her as a drunk.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, personal shame that you're living.
Speaker 1: Like that, but not having shoes and all that now
Speaker 1: makes sense, Yeah, exactly, And Olivia goes, you were too ashamed,
Speaker 1: Like I get that. Tell me what happened, and Carrie
Speaker 1: explains that when she was at school the day of
Speaker 1: the murder, she got a phone call from Justin who
Speaker 1: said he wanted to break things off because the mom
Speaker 1: was just making his life like a living hell. And
Speaker 1: she tried to deal with it at school but then
Speaker 1: she couldn't, so she went home and her mom was there.
Speaker 1: She said she tried to talk to her, but then
Speaker 1: her mom just picked up a bottle and started drinking
Speaker 1: and said she was going to get Justin fired. So
Speaker 1: she told her mom, I'd rather be homeless than spend
Speaker 1: another minute with you. Dennise slapped her really hard, called
Speaker 1: her a slut, and then hit her again and again
Speaker 1: and again. So that's like pretty horrific abuse. And then
Speaker 1: Carrie's like, I just lost it and I grabbed the
Speaker 1: land and I hit her over and over. So then
Speaker 1: she says, like kind of the heartbreaking quote of the episode,
Speaker 1: she goes, I love my mom very much, but when
Speaker 1: she was drunk, she wasn't a mother. And Olivia clearly
Speaker 1: looks very moved by this and walks out of the
Speaker 1: room because this is Olivia's life story. Essentially, Simone follows
Speaker 1: her and is like, you know, this isn't murder, and
Speaker 1: Olivia is like, why didn't you present any of this
Speaker 1: as evidence, and Simone goes, she refused to talk about it,
Speaker 1: and I think you remember what that was like, and
Speaker 1: there's like a moment where you know.
Speaker 2: So now we're at a bar.
Speaker 1: Olivia is sitting there with Novak and she's like, nice,
Speaker 1: work on the birth control pills.
Speaker 2: Now the jury is definitely going to convict. I kind
Speaker 2: of love Novack, like never having any sympathy for anyone,
Speaker 2: and Olivia asks her, like, Olivia, they suffered from schizophrenia. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she really exactly. And then she's like, well, I did
Speaker 2: have that one boyfriend. So she asks Novak like, would
Speaker 2: you please plead carry out? And she's kind of like, well,
Speaker 2: why this is sort of open and shut. So then
Speaker 2: Olivia tells Novak like her whole backstory about her how
Speaker 2: her mom, Serena, was an English and when she was sixteen,
Speaker 2: she started dating one of her mom's students. He was
Speaker 2: a senior and twenty one. Again not not okay. He
Speaker 2: asked her to marry him.
Speaker 1: She said yes because she just wanted to get away
Speaker 1: from her mother, and her mom said, if you don't
Speaker 1: break it off with him, I will get this dude
Speaker 1: kicked out of college. And she said, I'm moving out
Speaker 1: and the mom was halfway through a bottle of vodka.
Speaker 2: She dropped it.
Speaker 1: It shattered, and her mom picked up the jagged edge
Speaker 1: of the bottle and came at her, and Olivia said
Speaker 1: that her mom was screaming, I'll never let anyone else
Speaker 1: have you, And so she kicked her mom hard and
Speaker 1: then kicked her again and she flew across the room.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a full superhero moment, and she ran
Speaker 1: out because she was so afraid, and Novak is like,
Speaker 1: but you didn't kill your mom, Olivia, and Olivia goes,
Speaker 1: but I know what it's like to want to, and
Speaker 1: so really sort of a touching Benson moment, and she's like,
Speaker 1: that's how I know, Simon Bryce. I called her back
Speaker 1: then when she was a law student, and she helped
Speaker 1: me survive this whole situation with my mom. And then
Speaker 1: she's like, why didn't Carrie say anything, Like why didn't
Speaker 1: she come forward about this? And Olivia explained, She's like,
Speaker 1: because then the abuse becomes real. If you keep it quiet,
Speaker 1: you can pretend that none of it's real or happening.
Speaker 1: So that's like a whole perspective of it that I
Speaker 1: never really saw because it's like, yeah, why don't you
Speaker 1: just tell people? And it is kind of also so complex,
Speaker 1: Like the relationship that Benson has with her mom is
Speaker 1: so layered and complex because she's actually in an episode
Speaker 1: in the first season before she dies. They're still hanging
Speaker 1: out and talking, but then they have the whole rape issue,
Speaker 1: and then there's the alcoholism issue, but she seems to
Speaker 1: still really love her mom, and like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's very complicated.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: Now we're in court and Petrowsky is reviewing this plea deal.
Speaker 1: Carrie's going to get manslaughter and she's going to do
Speaker 1: five years. Justin hugs and kisses her as she's let out,
Speaker 1: and Casey clarifies because I thought it was five years
Speaker 1: in jail, and I was like, that's not going to
Speaker 1: be an easy five years for Carrie, but she'll be
Speaker 1: in a juvenile facility because she's only fifteen, so no
Speaker 1: hard time. And Simone asks Novak, like, why did you
Speaker 1: plead her out? I uphold the jurors and eleven of
Speaker 1: them thought she was guilty, and then they just kind
Speaker 1: of look at Benson, who's sitting in the back of
Speaker 1: the courtroom staring right at them, and it's awkward.
Speaker 2: And then it's dick wolf baby, Yeah, five years for
Speaker 2: killing your mom. Yeah, because when Ed Kemper got out
Speaker 2: after killing his grandparents as a teen, I was like,
Speaker 2: fuck this, but in this situation, yeah, let her out,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: But well they said it was just because Petrowsky said
Speaker 1: state correctional facility, so I assumed she was going to
Speaker 1: adult jail and then they clarify that it is not
Speaker 1: adult jail.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for that lovely episode.
Speaker 2: Now I have zero of zero info on this case,
Speaker 2: so I'm excited for you to do. Yeah, not famous cases,
Speaker 2: but intriguing interesting. So we'll see you after our sponsored content.
Speaker 3: Welcome back.
Speaker 2: So one crime is based on this episode, the episode's
Speaker 2: based on the crime, and then one crime that is
Speaker 2: identical to this episode happened eighteen months after this episode aired,
Speaker 2: so we'll touch on it. But obviously, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I think it's so creepy when that happens, and like wild, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they don't either, they don't have a fortune teller on staff.
Speaker 3: We would have known. I have Martin Short.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I always love when I talk to people who
Speaker 2: aren't as SVU as us and I try to entice
Speaker 2: them and I'm like, you know, even Martin Short, and
Speaker 2: I go, what did Martin Short play? And it's so
Speaker 2: fun to be like a fake psychic who rapes virgins
Speaker 2: and murders them like a virgin psychic hound, because you
Speaker 2: know they're very shocked by that. So so we'll start here.
Speaker 2: We have a Valessa Robinson and she is a teen
Speaker 2: and the home of where this all happens is Tampa Bay.
Speaker 2: I read a lot of Tampa Bay Times, which was
Speaker 2: a joy, since it's the home of the Backstreet Boys,
Speaker 2: and I have always wanted to visit Tampa Bay. Oh,
Speaker 2: I've been to Tampa many times. What did you do
Speaker 2: in Tampa?
Speaker 1: Well, my family, A lot of my family lives in Sarasota,
Speaker 1: and you can fly into Sarasota, but it's more expensive,
Speaker 1: and so Tampa's like an hour away and it's better
Speaker 1: to fly in there.
Speaker 2: So I've been to Tampa. I've spent some time.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So Valessa's fifteen years old when this story takes place,
Speaker 2: and her mother, Vicki Robinson, was struggling to get control
Speaker 2: of her daughter. And I have Kathy Mori already in
Speaker 2: my head this whole time. But that's not what this
Speaker 2: woman looks like like if you google her, she looks
Speaker 2: on photos as a local bank teller with feathered hair
Speaker 2: in the eighties and a button down little power suit like.
Speaker 2: She looks quote unquote like a good mom or whatever,
Speaker 2: like you'd see her at a softball game. She's not
Speaker 2: as wild as Kathy, but well, you never know what's
Speaker 2: behind the photo. But it was really shocking where I
Speaker 2: was like, I need a look at this woman looks
Speaker 2: like because I can only picture Kathy screaming in the precinct.
Speaker 3: And there was another daughter, Michelle.
Speaker 2: We don't know much about her, but she was seventeen
Speaker 2: and she was actually visiting her father that night, and
Speaker 2: her sister said that Valessa just could not deal with
Speaker 2: the parents divorce. So the parents divorced when Valessa was
Speaker 2: eleven years old, and that caused her to change a
Speaker 2: lot and become quote unquote a bad teen. She was
Speaker 2: just not able to deal with the splitting of these parents.
Speaker 2: So at age twelve, Valessa joined a rock band with
Speaker 2: a bunch of twenty year old men and started doing drugs,
Speaker 2: and she loved acid, and according to CBS News, she
Speaker 2: also said they did a lot of ecstasy. So you
Speaker 2: know she had she had a good time at twelve.
Speaker 2: I think a little too early for ecstasy and acid.
Speaker 2: But those are the facts, so you know. And I
Speaker 2: just said, like, the mom looked great, and I you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, am I judge all of her taft? That's
Speaker 2: how I feel. And that's the whole thing. You don't
Speaker 2: know about a photo there's like a huge sweater set.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean you're a good mom, right, correct? Absolutely, But
Speaker 2: I also don't think this is that bad. Like that's
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, did this mom do some shitty things?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Do I think she should have been murdered? I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like, so this is the shitty thing.
Speaker 2: So basically they were like fighting, and Valessa refused to
Speaker 2: go on to this vacation with her mom, and so
Speaker 2: the mom said, well, fuck you, then I'm going alone.
Speaker 2: And she went to Michigan for two weeks, which is
Speaker 2: wild that that's your vacation from Florida. But oh okay,
Speaker 2: So she went to Michigan for two weeks and she
Speaker 2: did not check on her daughter once, who was fourteen
Speaker 2: years old. That's wild. That's nice to get your kid
Speaker 2: taken away from you, for sure. Even yeah, so it's
Speaker 2: not like the abuse we normally talk about. But it's
Speaker 2: not great, but it's I don't know if it's worth
Speaker 2: murdering your mom, but maybe we understand this girl like
Speaker 2: she didn't feel loved and the mom just like fully
Speaker 2: ditched her for two weeks. So the daughter at the
Speaker 2: time was dating Adam Davis, who is nineteen and had
Speaker 2: a criminal passed. He was living on the streets, his
Speaker 2: father was dead and his mother abandoned him when he.
Speaker 3: Was two years old. Very roxy andrews of everything.
Speaker 2: So he was a high school dropout and a drug dealer,
Speaker 2: and obviously he's a product of like his upbringing and
Speaker 2: like lack thereof and so this is a sympathetic case.
Speaker 2: But as a mother, I can imagine you not wanting
Speaker 2: your fourteen year old daughter dating this older guy who's
Speaker 2: dealing drugs. Right, so I get everyone, you know, it's
Speaker 2: like these are tough when you kind of understand everything.
Speaker 2: So the mom was very much like, if I pushed
Speaker 2: too hard, she'll run to him more. So I'm going
Speaker 2: to take the easy approach and let things happen and
Speaker 2: see what happens.
Speaker 3: But they just got way too obsessed with each other.
Speaker 2: So by the time this mom tried to get involved Vicky,
Speaker 2: like they were intertwined so hardcore it was hard to
Speaker 2: break them apart.
Speaker 3: And more about Vicky.
Speaker 2: So she was forty nine, she was a real estate
Speaker 2: agent and a single mother of two. And so June
Speaker 2: twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, Vicky vanishes from her carol
Speaker 2: Wood home. And just before the murder, Vicki had planned
Speaker 2: to send her daughter of Alessa, to a Christian residential
Speaker 2: program called Stepping Stone Farm, and so a lot of
Speaker 2: the family says that she was working really hard to
Speaker 2: find a place to send her daughter to help her
Speaker 2: not be a bad teen, and so really stepping Stone
Speaker 2: without a g like stepping yeah, okay, very hip. But
Speaker 2: she was looking at a lot of a lot of homes,
Speaker 2: like the distant family or not the nuclear family, well
Speaker 2: maybe her nuclear family whatever, But they were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: she was looking at a lot of different programs, and
Speaker 2: she was really trying to help her daughter. But a
Speaker 2: girl that I grew up with, like her stepmother had
Speaker 2: her kidnapped in the middle of the night, Paris Hilton
Speaker 2: style and just sent to like, oh, like a scared strait.
Speaker 2: So we don't know, you know what was good what
Speaker 2: was not. But it seemed like she was just trying
Speaker 2: to like get her daughter on the quote unquote right
Speaker 2: path to not be an acid tripping teen. But Valessa
Speaker 2: denies knowing she was gonna be sent away. But the
Speaker 2: timing of this murder is very like a week before
Speaker 2: she would have.
Speaker 3: Left to step in Stone.
Speaker 2: So we don't know if she found she got whiff
Speaker 2: of the step and Stone farm or now I feel
Speaker 2: funny saying it, or if she really didn't know that
Speaker 2: she was going to be sent away. So Valessa at fifteen,
Speaker 2: her boyfriend Adam Davis at nineteen, and a friend, John
Speaker 2: Wisple plotted her mother's murder.
Speaker 3: They met at Denny's to hatch the plan.
Speaker 1: And I mean, if you're gonna if you're gonna hatch
Speaker 1: your murder plan, you gotta have moons over my Hammi?
Speaker 2: Right? Isn't that Denny's. I don't know Denny's. I'm an
Speaker 2: eye hop girl. Denny's is below eye hop to me.
Speaker 2: And so I've only had Denny's maybe three times in
Speaker 2: my life. Well, I hop has rudy, tooty, fresh and foodie.
Speaker 2: Isn't Moon's over my Hammy Denny's. Uh No, Denny's to
Speaker 2: me is like to me, to this, to the grants,
Speaker 2: it's grand slam, Grand slam. Denny's is grand slam. It's
Speaker 2: just like so many meats. So that yeah, So they're
Speaker 2: at Denny's setting the scene. I mean the fact that
Speaker 2: this isn't I know it's an SVU episode, but like,
Speaker 2: we need a full movie. I want a movie of this.
Speaker 3: So I just googled it.
Speaker 2: Though Moon's over My Hammy as Denny's. Okay, I didn't
Speaker 2: remember moons Moons over Hammy. I've never heard that. Is
Speaker 2: it also a is it a play on a pond?
Speaker 2: I've never even heard. Ye, there's a movie called Moon
Speaker 2: over My Moon over Miami, and so it's Moons over Miami. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I had to bring it up. It's so funny to me. No,
Speaker 2: I think it's I'm glad. But now I'm remembering when
Speaker 2: I Hop wanted to be I Hop and became a
Speaker 2: burger place for a day, and then we all was
Speaker 2: so mad, so dumb, so mad. I have this memory.
Speaker 2: I think I've brought it up on the podcast. But
Speaker 2: I was just like, as a kid went up to
Speaker 2: my dad and I was just like, I need pancakes,
Speaker 2: you need to take me to Iye Hops. So he
Speaker 2: just sat there watching me pancakes and a milkshake. But
Speaker 2: it's still in memory one of my favorite meals I've
Speaker 2: ever had a long time. But like, my dad was
Speaker 2: against restaurants really, and I don't know why I demanded
Speaker 2: these pants. Like, I don't know what series of events
Speaker 2: took place that he took me to ie hop and
Speaker 2: watched me eat alone. But I needed it and he knew. Well,
Speaker 2: that's a really sweet moment. Actually, when you say that,
Speaker 2: say it like that. Yeah, I think I was, like,
Speaker 2: I'm sensing that nothing is going to change if she
Speaker 2: does not get this right now, and she needs it.
Speaker 2: She needs these restaurant pancakes and a milkshake. I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it is really sweet. Sometimes you can't fight it, you know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes Rosie wants an Elmo donut and that's and I'm
Speaker 2: just given. Yeah. So before the murder, they stole Vicky's
Speaker 2: van to try to buy heroin and then they brought
Speaker 2: they got a syringe and went back to the house.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's a lot of The Tampa Bay
Speaker 2: Times has a lot of competing stories but no, they
Speaker 2: were on LSD. So well, I guess the three of
Speaker 2: them did take LSD during this murder. So they're at Denny's,
Speaker 2: they're looking for heroin. They do LSD. They bring a
Speaker 2: syringe to the house and boyfriend Adam Davis put her
Speaker 2: in a choke hold Vicki the mom and injected her
Speaker 2: with bleach. But that didn't kill her. That could have
Speaker 2: just been an LSD because now we have our phone. Well,
Speaker 2: I guess so they would search our phones because I
Speaker 2: was like, you can at least like search your phone
Speaker 2: for will bleach kill a person?
Speaker 3: But I don't know, because do you have to get
Speaker 3: into the blood stream.
Speaker 2: What if you're putting bleachin it would have done something.
Speaker 2: But maybe if you just do it into the like
Speaker 2: into the arm, nothing would happen, like into the muscle tissue.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Another great question for our medical listeners.
Speaker 2: So then when that didn't kill her, they he stabbed
Speaker 2: her to death? Is the official store the boyfriend Adam
Speaker 2: Yes wow. Wisper said that Valessa Robinson straddled the mother
Speaker 2: on the floor to help hold her down as she
Speaker 2: was being stabbed to death. Ooh, and then obviously they
Speaker 2: all started turning on each other when the court case happened,
Speaker 2: and still in jail, there's just like a lot of
Speaker 2: different stories and then they're like, no she didn't, no
Speaker 2: he'd you know what I mean, Like they all just
Speaker 2: started fucking telling on each other. But so Wisple did
Speaker 2: say that Vellessa straddled her mom and held her down
Speaker 2: as Adam Davis like stabbed her. And then they went
Speaker 2: on the run. So they were apprehended six days after
Speaker 2: the murder. The three youths were arrested in a high
Speaker 2: speed chase in Texas.
Speaker 5: Woo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they went on a fun spree. But they
Speaker 2: used all her credit cards, Like it was not difficult
Speaker 2: to track them because I kept using Vicky's credit cards
Speaker 2: to do stuff. Vicky's body was found in a garbage
Speaker 2: can in the woods near her home. That's how she
Speaker 2: treated her mother. God get this woman off the fucking street.
Speaker 2: Vicky's family and Michelle, obviously the sister were pissed, you know,
Speaker 2: they were not happy, and they all stopped talking to Vellessa.
Speaker 2: They did not pay for a lawyer for her. She
Speaker 2: ended up with a public defender. Like everyone was really
Speaker 2: mad that. Yeah, VICKI was killed obviously they wanted nothing
Speaker 2: to do with this bitch. And cor Vellessa did a
Speaker 2: good girl outfit, you know, Alex Cabot would approve of.
Speaker 2: She wore Mary Jane's pastel sweaters, tights, and the jury
Speaker 2: heard testimony about this like rebellious fifteen year old, deep
Speaker 2: into drugs and was meander mother and you know, so
Speaker 2: in love with a sinister old boy. But look at her,
Speaker 2: you know, looking at her was like a little Easter
Speaker 2: church girl.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: Robinson did not testify in her own defense.
Speaker 2: They did not let her, and then Wisple actually testified
Speaker 2: against the other two, so he turned on them. Officially,
Speaker 2: Davis went on to death row. That's the boyfriend, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he stayed there for two decades, but was recently
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one resentenced to life in prison and
Speaker 2: will not be killed because the jury split on his
Speaker 2: death decision was seven to five and now the low
Speaker 2: says you need a unanimous verdict for death, but he
Speaker 2: is spending life in prison. Wispole was sentenced to twenty
Speaker 2: five years. And this was just like a friend that
Speaker 2: was caught up in it. And like I said earlier
Speaker 2: in this episode, if you're there and you're not stopping it.
Speaker 2: It's your fucking fault, you know, That's why you learn
Speaker 2: a yellowjackets. One mistake is life or death. Like every
Speaker 2: choice we make is important. So I hope you if
Speaker 2: you didn't have anxiety, you have it now. So whispole,
Speaker 2: but hopefully you're not going to be convinced into doing
Speaker 2: shit like that. So Wispool was sentenced to twenty five
Speaker 2: years and then he was released in twenty nineteen, but
Speaker 2: then he beat his girlfriend and went back to jail
Speaker 2: and is now awaiting trial and two domestic battery charges. Okay,
Speaker 2: he didn't learn anything in prison and actually just probably
Speaker 2: became more evil in crime and didn't learn how to
Speaker 2: control his shit. So we don't know where he is
Speaker 2: on these domestic violence cases, but he's not going to
Speaker 2: thrive in society. We'll say that our girl Valessa, I
Speaker 2: would kill my mother just if she called me Valessa. Okay,
Speaker 2: Now that always reminds me of Tim rob Tim Meadows
Speaker 2: in Me and Girls when he enters in the classroom
Speaker 2: with Tina Fey and he goes, oh, that's like my
Speaker 2: nephew Amphony. But no, I'm not as mad as that.
Speaker 2: My sister named her child Amphony. Do you remember that
Speaker 2: ampherny everybody? Yeah, so I think you know, I think
Speaker 2: about that when I think of Valessa. It's like, was
Speaker 2: there a mistake? Me and Girls is top ten for me.
Speaker 2: I want to watch it on every floor. If it's
Speaker 2: on TV, if I fit's on TV at any point,
Speaker 2: ten minutes left, two hours left, I watch it like
Speaker 2: I love it, and Hulu goes, we think you'll like this.
Speaker 1: They're right, and I'm clicking, you know when it's always
Speaker 1: on right before drag Race. VH one always plays it
Speaker 1: because whenever I turn on my Dragways DVR, it's that
Speaker 1: shot of the little girls getting hit by the bus
Speaker 1: and then her like just kidding, and then the bus
Speaker 1: missing them.
Speaker 2: Like I see that scene every Friday now watching drag Race.
Speaker 2: That's amazing now it really ooh, that would be fun
Speaker 2: Halloween costumes in that movie. It's just it launched it.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I fucking love that movie. We can
Speaker 2: go on and on, but we do have some murder to.
Speaker 3: Come back to.
Speaker 2: So Valessa was convicted of third degree murderer. She's only
Speaker 2: served thirteen years of her twenty years sentence. She's out.
Speaker 2: She's been out for like close to a decade, like
Speaker 2: she's been out, so that's wild. She was a minor,
Speaker 2: which changes the sentencing, But it's like she hatched the plan.
Speaker 2: I don't think they would have killed her mother without her,
Speaker 2: And the men are obviously pissed because they're spending their
Speaker 2: lives in prison, but they did the actual murdering. But
Speaker 2: she's out, baby Wow. Which is cool or not?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't really have an opinion about it. So when
Speaker 2: she first got into jail, she did get into a
Speaker 2: lot of trouble. There was threats, contraband sex acts. But
Speaker 2: then she got her act together and she became a
Speaker 2: model inmate. She took classes in fixing cars, building character,
Speaker 2: she taught aerobics to fellow inmates, and she cut off
Speaker 2: her hair for locks of love and studied nutrition.
Speaker 3: So she went to a very high class jail.
Speaker 2: So if you know someone that's committed a crime, I
Speaker 2: would try to maybe get them sent a Homestead Correctional Institution.
Speaker 2: It's near Miami, and it seems like they have a
Speaker 2: lot of great programming for their inmates. And so the
Speaker 2: reason she got released not only because of like her
Speaker 2: good behavior, that she earned. She earned one one and
Speaker 2: forty six days of gain time for her good behavior,
Speaker 2: but they also counted the days she served before she
Speaker 2: was convicted in this sentence, so that's what attributed to
Speaker 2: her early release. And like I said, it's you know,
Speaker 2: Adam Davis's death sentence has been twice upheld like now
Speaker 2: he's not in twenty twenty one overturned to life in jail.
Speaker 2: But like that's a disparity. But also, you know, we talked,
Speaker 2: there's just like a lot of different things. But the
Speaker 2: disparity quote came from the Tampa Bay Times from Davis's lawyer,
Speaker 2: who's like.
Speaker 3: This is fucked up, but is it?
Speaker 2: Like I don't know it's but Robinson's lawyers opening statement
Speaker 2: really encapsulates maybe some thoughts that people have, which is,
Speaker 2: these nineteen year old men murdered her mom and now
Speaker 2: they want to blame her.
Speaker 3: And it is true, she's fifteen.
Speaker 2: You guys are full on adults legally, and you agreed
Speaker 2: to kill this teenager's mother. So I get both lawyers
Speaker 2: doing their job. But Velessa's now a mother of her own.
Speaker 2: She's been posting on Facebook from like twenty fifteen of
Speaker 2: her and a baby boy, so cool. She's married as
Speaker 2: far as we know, living in Ocean Springs, Mississippi. I
Speaker 2: saw photos of her in a bikini on a boat,
Speaker 2: so she was on a boat once. The judge who
Speaker 2: presided the case, though, was quoted in the Tampa Bay Times,
Speaker 2: I think I should get a sponsorship. The judge said,
Speaker 2: what can you say? She served her sentence, So I
Speaker 2: love that. Who is that quotable? No, judge j Rogers paget.
Speaker 2: He figured her to. He figured her to probably be
Speaker 2: a fifteen year old sociopath. He goes the normality of
Speaker 2: it to value the love of this guy more than
Speaker 2: the love of her mother. That's not at all normal.
Speaker 2: So those are the final words of the judge who
Speaker 2: presided over the case, and that's that. So the two
Speaker 2: men will probably be in jail, and then she's just
Speaker 2: like out there raising a kid.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say now.
Speaker 2: What happened eighteen months later, and this happened for the
Speaker 2: episode where we talked to Eric McCormick, And then during
Speaker 2: the interview, I go, did you hear about the real
Speaker 2: case of the woman being stuffed in a suitcase?
Speaker 3: And it truly ruined his mood.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a lot of listeners say, oh, you
Speaker 1: guys should do Intoxicated it's based on this case, and
Speaker 1: we're like, actually, this case happened eighteen months after the episode,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, so a lot of people connect these two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is an interesting case. I'm gonna touch
Speaker 2: on it pretty briefly. So it's the case of Barbara Mullinex,
Speaker 2: which sounds like musin X. It's difficult for me too,
Speaker 2: So I'm just imagining a family of little boogers living
Speaker 2: in a nose canal.
Speaker 3: If I'm being honest, I like, that's who I see.
Speaker 2: Rachel Mulnex Mulinex and Ian Allen of Huntington Beach, California
Speaker 2: were a couple who fell in love in two thousand
Speaker 2: and six. Rachel was seventeen and just moved to Huntington
Speaker 2: Beach from Oklahoma with her parents, Barbara and Bruce, who
Speaker 2: were divorced, but they still all live together until Barbara
Speaker 2: could get back on her feet and raise them alone.
Speaker 2: So Bruce and Barbara were not together, but they were
Speaker 2: living together with their daughter Rachel. They were not into
Speaker 2: the relationship, of course, that Rachel got into with a
Speaker 2: twenty one year old boy you know, but they gave
Speaker 2: an okay and even signed a note saying they assented
Speaker 2: to the relationship. And you know, I copied that word assented.
Speaker 2: That's not something that's in my vocabulary. But after a
Speaker 2: while they're like, okay, we we're not okay with the
Speaker 2: relationship anymore. We tried to be supportive, hoping it would fizzle.
Speaker 2: It's not fizzling. We're pissed. So September of two thousand
Speaker 2: and six, Barbara's horribly brutalized body was found floating in
Speaker 2: the water by Newport Harbor Yacht Club.
Speaker 3: Now this is a trigger warning. I would say, Oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 2: She was wrapped in a sheet and had a butter
Speaker 2: knife sticking out of an eye socket. The entire blade
Speaker 2: was embedded deep in her skull. And at first they
Speaker 2: did not have an ID for her body, but they
Speaker 2: were able to find and identify her through the serial
Speaker 2: number from her breast implants. So that's, you know, something
Speaker 2: else the su Yeah, and when the authorities got to
Speaker 2: the house, nobody was home, but they could tell that
Speaker 2: the murder had taken place. There there was like a
Speaker 2: shoddy cleanup job. There was blood and everywhere. And then
Speaker 2: also the kitchen had the same butter knives as were
Speaker 2: found in the eye. So at first, of course they
Speaker 2: assume it's the ex Obviously we've all seen movies, so Bruce.
Speaker 2: So they're like, Bruce, you did it? And Bruce came
Speaker 2: home and was like, hey, hey, officers, what's going on?
Speaker 2: I live here, And they're like, it's see you. No,
Speaker 2: but he was very shocked, and he was he was
Speaker 2: shocked when he found out, but because he was under suspicion,
Speaker 2: he to them he was behaving oddly. They said that
Speaker 2: he was stone faced when he found out about the death,
Speaker 2: but then when he found out that Rachel.
Speaker 3: Was missing, he went nuts.
Speaker 2: So he was very worried, and so that I think
Speaker 2: makes it seem like it wasn't him, since he's like, oh, fuck,
Speaker 2: if they killed Barbara, they took Rachel with so he's
Speaker 2: acting like a scared dad, but also did you murder
Speaker 2: your ex wife?
Speaker 3: So he was suspect number one.
Speaker 2: But as Alibi checked out very quickly he was in
Speaker 2: Fresno on business. They were all worried that the boyfriend
Speaker 2: had kidnapped Rachel after killing the mother, and an alert,
Speaker 2: a nationwide all points bulletin came out, which resulted in
Speaker 2: a sighting in Louisiana.
Speaker 3: So they also went out on the.
Speaker 2: Run and when they pulled over the truck, Rachel ran
Speaker 2: dreaming from the truck, but detectives right away were not
Speaker 2: buying her act.
Speaker 3: Okay, she put it out there, but it didn't work.
Speaker 2: They got footage from a convenience store in her and
Speaker 2: her boyfriend seemed real cozy together, you know, like they
Speaker 2: were buying snacks, very chill.
Speaker 3: It did not seem like a kidnapp situation.
Speaker 2: Or she was trying to get out and I know,
Speaker 2: we know about Stockholm and Patty Hurst and like maybe
Speaker 2: you were tricks, but they just were not getting that right.
Speaker 2: And as she was breaking down an interrogation, her boyfriend
Speaker 2: actually like felt bad and started confessing and explaining what
Speaker 2: really happened, and he had a lot of remorse.
Speaker 3: He was not happy about what went down.
Speaker 2: The prosecutor for the case said that Rachel is a
Speaker 2: sociopath who is incapable of feeling anything at all. The
Speaker 2: jury deliberated for four days and sentenced her and her boyfriend,
Speaker 2: both of them to twenty five years to life. Ian
Speaker 2: is in Chuckawalla Valley State Prison in blythe California and
Speaker 2: Rachel is spending her time at the Central California Woman's
Speaker 2: Facility and she will be eligible for parole in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six. Bruce, though, he says Barbara was a crazy,
Speaker 2: mean drunk who was physically abusive to his daughter.
Speaker 3: So it's we just get a.
Speaker 2: Little bit about that. It's so close. It's like, do
Speaker 2: you think that she saw the SVU and was like,
Speaker 2: we can get away with this? Like I wonder, no,
Speaker 2: I this seems frenzied to me, because you'd cover your tracks,
Speaker 2: you would just do better, you like, but they're also
Speaker 2: teens and they're dumb, like if you're but we taught
Speaker 2: you know, some killers are smart, some killers are dumb.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say, but like not good,
Speaker 3: not good?
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks Lisa for doing the research on the dose crimes.
Speaker 3: There my pleasure, honestly. Yeah, And you guys, do not move.
Speaker 2: A muscle because we have a killer interview coming up. Guys.
Speaker 1: We obviously love every single person we get to talk
Speaker 1: to on this podcast, but sometimes we get someone that
Speaker 1: we're like, we really can't believe we got to talk
Speaker 1: to them. This actress has a body of work that
Speaker 1: is truly unparalleled. Raging Bowl nominated for an Academy Award.
Speaker 1: Soap Dish one of my favorite movies of all time.
Speaker 1: But I'm a Cheerleader one of Leeza's favorite movies of
Speaker 1: all time. She's appeared on SVU on three different occasions
Speaker 1: as two different characters, but you know her from today's
Speaker 1: episode from her first appearance in two thousand and five
Speaker 1: as Denise Eldridge. Please check out our chat with the
Speaker 1: legendary Kathy Moriarty.
Speaker 2: Where are you? Where do you live?
Speaker 5: I live out in Southampton, New York, way out Long Island,
Speaker 5: but I am my brother's right now where it's nice
Speaker 5: and quiet without dogs and children, and he's in Long Beach.
Speaker 5: So I'm a beachee type of girl.
Speaker 2: I love it well before SVU if you don't mind, Ah,
Speaker 2: But I'm a Cheerleader was one of the biggest movies
Speaker 2: of my life. I would rent it all the time.
Speaker 2: It took over my life. And yeah, how I don't
Speaker 2: even have a question. I'm just so thrilled to talk
Speaker 2: to you. Did you keep any of your outfits?
Speaker 5: No, but I heard that they made a fortune. We're
Speaker 5: not a fortune. Nobody made a fortunal of anything, but
Speaker 5: I heard the pink suit went for a pretty petty
Speaker 5: because you know, it's funny because we just did a
Speaker 5: zoom thing. It's a bunch of months ago now, because
Speaker 5: I think it was like the twentieth anniversary. So I
Speaker 5: got to like, you know, talk to Clea Deval and
Speaker 5: Natasha and Jamie and you know, a whole bunch of people.
Speaker 5: So it was kind of really cool to reconnect.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Melanie Lynsky, who is this quiet character? And
Speaker 2: that is now, like did you watch I don't know
Speaker 2: if you watched Yellow Jackets.
Speaker 3: It's so cool to see all of them.
Speaker 5: Bigger than life. And it's funny because I just worked
Speaker 5: with Clia. She's producing, writing and doing. It's a cartoon Housebroken,
Speaker 5: So I did just a couple of episodes and that
Speaker 5: was fun amazing. Yeah, these girls turned in bigger than life.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, both Natasha and Cleia are SVU alum as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, they've had some episodes.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, their episodes were really good.
Speaker 2: I and one of the rare I guess RuPaul is
Speaker 2: like not in Drag Too, that movie, that's the movie
Speaker 2: I got introduced to RuPaul for it too. I didn't
Speaker 2: know about him before that. But do you get stopped
Speaker 2: a lot on the streets.
Speaker 5: No, But then again I don't. I gave up walking
Speaker 5: the streets a long time ago.
Speaker 3: Okay, amazing.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, so Lisa is the but I'm a cheerleader
Speaker 1: fan and I'm the Soap Dish fan.
Speaker 3: Like truly saw it in the theater.
Speaker 5: I have to tell you it was two of my favorites. So,
Speaker 5: I mean, like, were my favorite two of my favorite
Speaker 5: movies that I did.
Speaker 3: I love that movie so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, huge iconic casts, like just so funny. Your
Speaker 1: character is like so I remember being like, who is
Speaker 1: this woman? This character is amazing? Were like so funny
Speaker 1: and mean and like a bitch.
Speaker 2: It was so good, and I just like, I'm like,
Speaker 2: with all these reboots and everything being reimagined, where is
Speaker 2: soap Dish two point zero? And would you do it?
Speaker 5: You know? Somebody just told me, actually I read about
Speaker 5: it somewhere that they were going to do a TV
Speaker 5: show based on Soap Dish and that I think Whoopie
Speaker 5: Goldberg had signed on. I read about it somewhere, but
Speaker 5: they haven't come to me on and I'm way too
Speaker 5: old to play Milton or Montana now. But you know
Speaker 5: it's funny because they had brought it up years ago.
Speaker 5: When the movie came out. One of the producers on
Speaker 5: the show, would I consider doing a TV like a
Speaker 5: spin off? And I was like, you know, call me,
Speaker 5: what can I tell you? But that was like a
Speaker 5: bucket list adventure. All the people I wanted to work
Speaker 5: with that you like work with all in one movie.
Speaker 5: And I wasn't even supposed to do that movie if
Speaker 5: it wasn't for another great actress who pulled out to
Speaker 5: do something even better. I was still in bed crying
Speaker 5: over the fact I didn't get it, and they're like,
Speaker 5: you're going to New York and you're going to test again.
Speaker 5: And I ended up getting it and I will forever
Speaker 5: be grateful for it. And then, but I'm a cheerleader.
Speaker 5: I wasn't going to do And then I said, I
Speaker 5: really don't have anything to do for the next six weeks,
Speaker 5: I might as well do it. I love the script.
Speaker 5: I loved working with Natasha and Cleia and Jamie and
Speaker 5: everybody and it for that matter. So I did that.
Speaker 5: But I didn't see it for years because when it
Speaker 5: was coming out, I was pregnant with twins, so I
Speaker 5: missed all of the hooplast stuff. But anyway, I finally
Speaker 5: got to see it after I'm embarrassed to say how
Speaker 5: many years, and I laughed myself sick. It was amazing.
Speaker 5: It's very culty. It's a very cult.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, well you really have a gift. And even
Speaker 2: with this character and sv you intoxicated where you play
Speaker 2: these quote unquote like bad evil people but so funny,
Speaker 2: Like they're all so comedic and evil at the same time.
Speaker 2: It's so rare and skillful.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's very cool to watch, all right, not like them,
Speaker 2: but I'm not laughing and loving it.
Speaker 5: And then you listen, anytime somebody makes you laugh, you
Speaker 5: have to be grateful.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, they begged you to be on it. You
Speaker 2: weren't auditioning for SVU. I'm assuming no.
Speaker 5: I did an audition. I love Lawn Order, I love
Speaker 5: everything about it, so my mission was to make sure
Speaker 5: I did each one. So I think the first time
Speaker 5: I did it, I think I just see the regular
Speaker 5: law and order is that I don't even note. That's
Speaker 5: what you'd call it.
Speaker 2: They call it the Mothership. A lot of other we
Speaker 2: call it original recipes something, and then I did.
Speaker 5: A couple of SVUS. Then I came back on SVU you,
Speaker 5: but I did the same character twice. So I would
Speaker 5: love to go back on it because it's just one
Speaker 5: of my favorite shows to work on. To work on
Speaker 5: that set, you are just at a level of, oh
Speaker 5: my god, professionalism but comfortable and relaxed. You go in.
Speaker 5: You got to make sure you know your stuff. The
Speaker 5: pace is quick and hard. There is not one person
Speaker 5: I did not like on any of the episodes, from
Speaker 5: the cameraman to the makeup, to the hair, to the actors.
Speaker 5: Each one I just thoroughly enjoyed to the point I
Speaker 5: was like, well, now I have to do criminal Intent.
Speaker 5: And I think the only one I didn't do but
Speaker 5: it didn't last that long, was the LA one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's okay. You still did the Trifactor.
Speaker 5: I did the trifacta exactly. I didn't hit the super factor,
Speaker 5: but that's okay, that's okay. But yeah, insosicated, that was
Speaker 5: a good one. That was a very good one actually,
Speaker 5: and that was way back in the day.
Speaker 3: I think it's from two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: And you you know, it's like your character is a
Speaker 1: little bit unhinged and we find out later an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: But I'm sort of on your side at the beginning
Speaker 1: when I find that a twenty one year old is
Speaker 1: hooking up with a fifteen year old, Ya, I'm a
Speaker 1: little having twenty one.
Speaker 5: Year old yeah, and a twenty year old. Yeah, I'd
Speaker 5: become unhinged too, did you?
Speaker 2: And Danielle Panabaker, you got to tell me that you
Speaker 2: guys had a nice relationship off camera, because it was
Speaker 2: so hard to watch you guys fight on camera that
Speaker 2: I have to believe you loved each other off camera.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, just an absolute gem. Yes, and a good little
Speaker 5: actress too.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 5: I enjoyed doing that episode. That was fun. That was
Speaker 5: a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Do you have any like specific memories of that. I
Speaker 2: know it was so long ago at this point. If
Speaker 2: you don't, it's no problem.
Speaker 5: But just I remember like doing the Law and Orders
Speaker 5: and either I was always killing somebody or getting killed.
Speaker 5: And I think my kid's father used to worry. He goes,
Speaker 5: why does it look so easy that you just kill people?
Speaker 5: And I was kind of like, we practice makes perfect,
Speaker 5: so be careful. But on that particular one I get killed, correct, Yes, Yes,
Speaker 5: And of course The highlight was when I have to
Speaker 5: lay their dad. I probably took a nap, knowing myself
Speaker 5: I was going to ask I was going to ask
Speaker 5: you because we talked to some other actors that have
Speaker 5: had to lie in a pool of blood on the show,
Speaker 5: and some of them have been like, yeah, they actually
Speaker 5: make Youli there for a really long time, but they
Speaker 5: don't wa anywhere on those sets, on any of the
Speaker 5: law and orders, especially s for you. That's a tight ship, man.
Speaker 5: They move it. They get a lot done in ten days,
Speaker 5: you know, and usually you're only there for three or four.
Speaker 5: And I don't think my part was even all that
Speaker 5: big and intox kid, I think I died early on,
Speaker 5: But it was just it was great fun. And I've
Speaker 5: known Mariska for quite some time now, and she's a
Speaker 5: really great team leader. She really is. She has everybody's back.
Speaker 5: She welcomes everybody on that show. And then the supporting
Speaker 5: coust they're just they're awesome.
Speaker 2: I loved your epic scene where you're yelling in the
Speaker 2: precinct and you get to go down the stairs and
Speaker 2: it seems like everyone's watching you.
Speaker 5: How was that everyone was, weren't they?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Funny I forgot all about that scene until I knew
Speaker 5: I was going to do this, and I was like,
Speaker 5: what episode? And then they tell me and talx kit
Speaker 5: it and so somebody sent me like, you know, some
Speaker 5: things on it, and I was like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 5: remember that day. It was so cool and down floor.
Speaker 5: Oh I love he He was in that scene too
Speaker 5: where I just come out and I'm just blasted drunk,
Speaker 5: you know. But and Chris Coloney, it just it was
Speaker 5: just fun. It was fun. They let you go for it.
Speaker 5: They trust your instincts. They hire you for the reason
Speaker 5: that you're going to do the right job. So it's
Speaker 5: nice to have that freedom. And it's nice when they're like, wow, okay,
Speaker 5: moving on, that's great, you know. And so it's a
Speaker 5: nice satisfaction feeling.
Speaker 2: Well the audience. We don't learn that you're in your
Speaker 2: character is an alcoholic til later in the episode.
Speaker 5: That's what was tricky about that. Yeah, like too drunk,
Speaker 5: just being a bitch kind of you know, So like
Speaker 5: you really I don't think you knew even then that
Speaker 5: she was loaded all the time, but yeah, so you know,
Speaker 5: you to Yeah, I tread I tread it lightly and
Speaker 5: made some choices hopefully they were right ones.
Speaker 2: No, for sure, No they were.
Speaker 1: I read somewhere and like this also could be nonsense
Speaker 1: on the internet, but I read that you like, in
Speaker 1: some roles you try to like lose your New York accent,
Speaker 1: or you spent time trying to lose your New York
Speaker 1: accent when you first started acting. But for Law and Order,
Speaker 1: do you like ever do you like lay it on thicker?
Speaker 1: Since it's like such a New York show.
Speaker 5: I definitely don't go trying to hide it. I mean
Speaker 5: I've done. Everybody just looks at me as a true
Speaker 5: New Yorker, which I am. I'm capable of dealing Southering
Speaker 5: and all that kind of stuff, but I can't get
Speaker 5: rid of the deep boys. So New York is just
Speaker 5: very natural. And you know, I'm born in the Bronx
Speaker 5: and this is really what I sound like. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: it's walk talk coffee, or I can say walk talk
Speaker 5: and coffee, you know, just as easy. But I'd like
Speaker 5: to have a paycheck behind it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wait, were you playing Southern when you were in Patty
Speaker 1: No Patty Cakes is New Jersey, right, Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was another fun one that Yeah, we love Bridget
Speaker 1: we know Bridget from New York.
Speaker 5: How could you not know? Everybody knows Bridget?
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: I went to coun to the Camp Film Festival with her.
Speaker 5: This is an amazing woman, an amazing, amazing woman who's
Speaker 5: like a trained opera singer. I basically stalked her on
Speaker 5: patty cakes on a day I didn't have to go
Speaker 5: to work. They were shooting up in my hometown in Yonkers, right,
Speaker 5: and I had to go up to sign papers or something,
Speaker 5: but I went. I said, oh, I'll just come to
Speaker 5: you just so I could hear her sing. She is
Speaker 5: so brilliant and so frigging funny, yet she's so shy
Speaker 5: kind of you know. Yeah, yeah, she's just brilliant. And
Speaker 5: the two of us in the South of France, we
Speaker 5: really just don't fit in, or I should say I didn't,
Speaker 5: but we made damn sure we did, and we had
Speaker 5: a hell of a time.
Speaker 3: Oh I love that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, when am I going to play an
Speaker 5: eighty year old chain smoking grandmother in a wheelchair raps?
Speaker 5: I think I actually got a residual check and I
Speaker 5: was like, from what is it from? And it was
Speaker 5: from rapping from the song. Oh yeah, you're getting iTunes money.
Speaker 5: You're getting that Spotify money. I think three dollars and
Speaker 5: sixty eight cents. I turned yeah, but I forgot I
Speaker 5: even did it.
Speaker 3: I was like, what is that?
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, Yeah it was good.
Speaker 2: Love that. Bridget Her like quote as dreams don't have deadlines,
Speaker 2: and I think about that a lot.
Speaker 5: Oh that's nice, and hear that one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she says that often, and so sometimes I think
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you're right, dreams don't have deadlines. No,
Speaker 5: I mean I'm up there now and I'm certainly not done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are your Are there specific characters or types
Speaker 2: of parts you're still waiting to do that you'd love to?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there's ones, of course that I want to,
Speaker 5: but I'll never I'll never get them unless I start
Speaker 5: creating my own stuff, you know. But yeah, I'm I'm
Speaker 5: not done, not yet.
Speaker 4: Not.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, I'm old. My kids are young. They
Speaker 5: remind me every day, Oh my god, mom, you're so old.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god, but yes, I'm still
Speaker 5: paying for you. But you know, maybe because I didn't
Speaker 5: have children till I was forty, and then I had
Speaker 5: three in a year. I had twins and little kath
Speaker 5: and Joe and then Bella and I had all three
Speaker 5: and they, you know, now they're twenty and twenty one.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm sort of in the same boat. I
Speaker 1: had my kids kind of late as well, so they're
Speaker 1: young now.
Speaker 5: But how old are your kids?
Speaker 3: Ten months and three on for Saturday?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 2: But I'm happy that I.
Speaker 3: Like did a lot before I had kids, Yeah, because
Speaker 3: now now.
Speaker 5: We just live for them and do nothing with yourselves whatsoever.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I got to travel, I got to party and have fun,
Speaker 2: and now i'm and then I was ready.
Speaker 5: To Oh yeah, No, I've lived a nice life and
Speaker 5: now I kind of share things with them. But you know,
Speaker 5: good for you. I guess. I don't know if I
Speaker 5: planned on waiting.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 5: Life happens for a reason. It's kind of like dreams
Speaker 5: don't have deadlines. I always, you know, wanted to have children,
Speaker 5: and I guess it happens when it was supposed to.
Speaker 5: I wasn't planned, that's for sure, so I just kept
Speaker 5: them coming. But you know, you can't plan twins. No
Speaker 5: I'm not, but no twins, and I certainly didn't plan.
Speaker 5: I did not plan another one within the same year.
Speaker 5: But anyway, these things happened. You know, everybody used to say, well,
Speaker 5: who'd you go to? And I didn't know what it meant.
Speaker 5: They automatically think, you know, once you were over thirty five,
Speaker 5: that you know you're dead, yeah, and you'll never have children.
Speaker 5: I was like, what do you mean? Who did I
Speaker 5: go to? Like? What doctor? You know? I was like,
Speaker 5: I don't have any plastic surgery. They meant in vitro
Speaker 5: and I was like, I was like, oh no, I
Speaker 5: just got lucky on the Thursday it was raining.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, I don't know. Yeah, because they called they.
Speaker 1: Start referring to you as geriatric pregnancy from thirty five
Speaker 1: and up, Like.
Speaker 5: It's crazy, it's wild, but you know it's it's a
Speaker 5: really it's a big joy for me. It's you know,
Speaker 5: that's my biggest accomplishment for me. Yeah, you'll feel that
Speaker 5: way soon, I promise.
Speaker 3: No, I'm on my way.
Speaker 1: I mean, my ten month old is on a full
Speaker 1: hunger strike right now, where he's refusing all foods, So
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like that.
Speaker 2: Can't do you know, Helen Shaver, I do extras direct.
Speaker 2: We interviewed her and she was saying how her son
Speaker 2: now works on sets and that like the most proud
Speaker 2: she's ever been in her life is going and watching
Speaker 2: that everyone on set saw him the way she saw him,
Speaker 2: and she it was just like a beauty. She just
Speaker 2: talked about it so beautifully and it touched me that
Speaker 2: that was like such a moment to see people see
Speaker 2: her son in the way that she loved him.
Speaker 5: To see like, my kids really comfortable on set and
Speaker 5: it's really nice. But to see what my son has
Speaker 5: accomplished is I know, mind blowing. I hope he hires
Speaker 5: me one day. It's kind of like I'm not even
Speaker 5: on his lists or anything. You know, It's like he
Speaker 5: definitely does not need me in any aspect of his career.
Speaker 5: And I'm kind of like chomping at the bed that
Speaker 5: perhaps one day he'll hire me. And to see my
Speaker 5: daughter her writing skills for a person of that age,
Speaker 5: she's well, I mean ahead of her time. And my
Speaker 5: little Kathy, I mean just you know, like you know,
Speaker 5: she'll cater like if I do is short or something,
Speaker 5: she'll come and she'll do the craft service and the
Speaker 5: catering on it. She just puts it all together. Yeah,
Speaker 5: they're just they're very independent of me, and you know,
Speaker 5: they do their own stuff. But like if I'm going,
Speaker 5: if I have to go to work and stuff, I'm like,
Speaker 5: does anybody want to come with me? And early on
Speaker 5: they were like, yeah, i'll come, I'll come. And now
Speaker 5: it's like I'm kind of busy. Mom be like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, I'm totally ditched.
Speaker 1: Now can I ask you a quick question about when
Speaker 1: you came back onto SVU. You were now you're a cop,
Speaker 1: You're Tony Howard. First you're a lieutenant and then you're
Speaker 1: a captain. So you're moving on up in the Brooklyn
Speaker 1: moving on Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: Side of the NYPD, And like, so your son gets
Speaker 2: killed in this episode poison Motive and you have to
Speaker 2: like you and Iced Tea got like a really nice
Speaker 2: moment together where you were like crying on a shoulder.
Speaker 3: So yeah, what's your do you love?
Speaker 2: Ice?
Speaker 5: Like, what's they do? There isn't one person that I
Speaker 5: don't like, and I mean there's just silly stories. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that was great, And he's just a sweetheart. He's like
Speaker 5: a big teddy.
Speaker 4: Bear, you know.
Speaker 5: But in the you know, it's like the camera guys,
Speaker 5: you just know everybody. Yeah, because we've all been around
Speaker 5: for so long, you know, But I think SVU was
Speaker 5: the most fun. What was the other one? What did
Speaker 5: you guys call the original?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: The Mothership is when people the mother ship?
Speaker 5: The mothership is a great one. Also SVU is they
Speaker 5: just have it down to a science. They have it
Speaker 5: down to a science. And yeah, now I'm a captain.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I can come back now unless
Speaker 5: I play that part. I really would love to come
Speaker 5: back though.
Speaker 1: I mean, they you know, it's been seven or eight years.
Speaker 1: They bring people back all the time for stuff, so
Speaker 1: who knows.
Speaker 2: Let's get you back now.
Speaker 5: That was my go to. I would do one a year,
Speaker 5: you know. Yeah, but you know, hopefully they'll have me
Speaker 5: back because I do it. I enjoy doing it, Yeah,
Speaker 5: for sure?
Speaker 2: Really do Now do you prefer a Maloney or an Amorrow? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Christopher Maloney or Danny Pino In terms of sexiness.
Speaker 5: That's a tough one. Now, that's a tough one. I've
Speaker 5: worked with Danny twice now.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I love Elizabeth also, who's on it. She's just wonderful.
Speaker 5: We laughed so hard one day, I was we were like,
Speaker 5: what does this mean? She goes, Oh, I have no idea.
Speaker 5: It's all smoke and mirrors, Kathy, I don't even know
Speaker 5: what it was, something really simple that we both should
Speaker 5: have known, and we didn't have a clue because it's
Speaker 5: all smoke and mirrors. The wardrobe lady, if your shirt
Speaker 5: doesn't fit a couple of times, I was pregnant when
Speaker 5: I did the chat, So we'll just cut it off
Speaker 5: the back like an Armani's a blouse. She just would
Speaker 5: take a scissor to the back.
Speaker 3: I'd be like, whoa, you can't do that. It's three
Speaker 3: thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: It's law and order.
Speaker 5: They have plenty of money.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: But yeah, but I don't prefer either to or It's
Speaker 5: just I know Danny more than I know Chris.
Speaker 2: Will you tell us this like story of how you
Speaker 2: got like discovered and cast in Raging Bull and all that, because.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, my host Cinderella. Well, I've heard I
Speaker 1: don't want to hear it from the Wikipedia. I'd love
Speaker 1: to hear it from you.
Speaker 5: All right, I'll make it quit. Let's say I was
Speaker 5: seventeen I wanted to be an actress. When I was sixteen,
Speaker 5: I applied for a grant to go to acting school.
Speaker 5: It was nineteen seventy six, seventy five whatever. They didn't
Speaker 5: consider acting a profession then, so I drank my house
Speaker 5: into work am I left to say that, yeah, I
Speaker 5: can say whatever I want. So I went to work
Speaker 5: and I would work and then I would go and
Speaker 5: get you know, backstage drama, logue, all those things go on,
Speaker 5: open casting calls, blah blah whatever. So then like at
Speaker 5: some point I was like, well, I really need to
Speaker 5: do something more with my life. I did not come
Speaker 5: with a silver spoon in my mouth. I definitely was
Speaker 5: not having Mommy and Daddy were not paying for college
Speaker 5: or braces for that matter. Anyway, I was in this
Speaker 5: nightclub that we used to hang out at Alan old
Speaker 5: people from the Bronx were there, and they were interviewing
Speaker 5: Joe Peeshey at the same time for Raging Bull. But
Speaker 5: actually it wasn't even Joe Peeschi that they were looking for.
Speaker 5: They were looking at this maybe death Collector that our
Speaker 5: friend Joe Cortesi started, and Joe Peeshy happened to have
Speaker 5: been in it. Joe Peeshi actually really looked a lot
Speaker 5: like Joey Lamata, So anyway, he was I don't know
Speaker 5: what he was doing at this restaurant. Am she's in
Speaker 5: the Bronx on one hundred and eighty seventh. But I
Speaker 5: knew everybody there because my dad was a longshoreman and
Speaker 5: worked down now on the dogs, and we used to
Speaker 5: have an overabundance of seafood in our house and I
Speaker 5: used to drive down every other Friday night and sell
Speaker 5: it out of the trunk of my car. So there
Speaker 5: you go. So I knew Joe and all these people,
Speaker 5: and they would come down to Hoops and they had
Speaker 5: like a bathing beauty contest. I wanted this pair of
Speaker 5: shoes early, but they were one hundred dollars. This is
Speaker 5: back in nineteen seventy six, seventy seven. So somebody dared me,
Speaker 5: like we were coming from the beach anyway, They'll like,
Speaker 5: just go into bathing baddy contest. If you win, you'll
Speaker 5: get the hundred dollars. If not, I'll give you the
Speaker 5: hundred dollars you could buy the shoes. I was like,
Speaker 5: all right now with that, So I did, and I won,
Speaker 5: and I got the shoes.
Speaker 3: So I was very happy.
Speaker 5: Anyway that they would show you pictures, they would have
Speaker 5: talent contests and singing contests and dance contests and blah blah,
Speaker 5: and my picture used to go up on the screen.
Speaker 5: They're like, Kathy, you know you really look a lot
Speaker 5: like VICKI lamatta, why don't you send your picture in?
Speaker 5: So I did. Now, it's not like I had a
Speaker 5: headshot or anything like that. It was a little three
Speaker 5: by five snapshot. And I lied and I said I
Speaker 5: was union. I didn't even know what a union was.
Speaker 5: Everything was a big lie, but I had the balls enough.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 5: Okay, So I sent it in and fis Gorman, who
Speaker 5: I love, who passed away. She was like, Kat, come down,
Speaker 5: I want to see you. So I went down and
Speaker 5: I met with her and she gave me what a
Speaker 5: cold side scenes from the script, which I don't even
Speaker 5: know if I ever got a script, but anyway, I
Speaker 5: would read them and she's like, hold on, I want
Speaker 5: you to meet some friends of mine. And I walked
Speaker 5: down a really long haulway. This is like on my
Speaker 5: third or fourth trip in and she goes, Kathy, this
Speaker 5: is Bobby and Marty, and I was like, hey, how
Speaker 5: you doing. Meanwhile was like scorsesean Genero. And that was
Speaker 5: in October, and I ended up working with them almost
Speaker 5: every day, none on the weekends usually, and I would
Speaker 5: go back. I was working in the garment center, and
Speaker 5: then I was waitressing at Brunberger on fifty seventh the
Speaker 5: six after and I just kept going back and getting
Speaker 5: my free acting lessons and working with them. And then
Speaker 5: they went to la for two weeks to cast and
Speaker 5: they didn't call me anymore, and I was like, all right, whatever,
Speaker 5: But it was convence because I ended up getting like
Speaker 5: pneumonia and was in the hospital. Anyway, the day I
Speaker 5: got out of the hospital, they called for me to
Speaker 5: come back again, and I was like, yea, all right whatever.
Speaker 5: Then they called and they said, we'd like to give
Speaker 5: you a screen test. Okay, I didn't even know what
Speaker 5: a screen test was. And I know it was down
Speaker 5: on Mother's soundstage on Fifth Street, and I know it
Speaker 5: was like at five o'clock in the morning. Of course,
Speaker 5: we were not supposed to go out the night before,
Speaker 5: and we all did.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 5: Now you have to remember, I'm born in the sixties
Speaker 5: and I'm playing somebody in the forties and stuff. And
Speaker 5: they had like these weird bathing suits and people had
Speaker 5: eyebrows and red lips back then. This is now the seventies.
Speaker 5: We all looked like Parah Foster or tried to so
Speaker 5: I did. I remember the first day. It was supposed
Speaker 5: to be like a two day screen test, and I
Speaker 5: was very uncomfortable with that time period because I knew
Speaker 5: nothing about it. I really had no formal training. My
Speaker 5: gest issue was I really didn't have technical training. I
Speaker 5: literally thought that you show a movie with a video
Speaker 5: handheld video camera. I did not know so during my
Speaker 5: screen test, and it was funny because, and I can
Speaker 5: say it now, it was I was screen testing. It
Speaker 5: was myself and Beverly d'angela, another twins had twins together,
Speaker 5: Big one Order girl. I still talked to Beverly to
Speaker 5: this day, love her to Dad.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 5: Yeah. And it was so funny because she's the one
Speaker 5: that told me that they called her and told her
Speaker 5: don't bother coming in. We found our girl. But while
Speaker 5: I would wait downstairs for my turn to go back
Speaker 5: up and do rehearsals and stuff, I would see all
Speaker 5: these huge movie stars and icons coming out of the
Speaker 5: building from auditioning. I mean, like some really big people,
Speaker 5: you know. So I do the screen test and Scorsese
Speaker 5: looked at me and goes, are you ready? I think
Speaker 5: we were doing the pool scene first. So they built
Speaker 5: like a little chain link fans whatever, and they said, Kathy,
Speaker 5: you're ready, and I was like yeah. Scorsese said action.
Speaker 5: And you know, he was pretty kind of pasty and
Speaker 5: pale to.
Speaker 2: Begin with, and he went even like whiter.
Speaker 5: He was like, what's wrong. I said, well, I'm waiting
Speaker 5: for all these people to leave. He said, Kathy, they're
Speaker 5: not leaving. I said, well, why didn't you just tell
Speaker 5: me that. I was like, all right, now I'm ready.
Speaker 5: I thought you just did it like in a room
Speaker 5: with the two people. I didn't know that you had
Speaker 5: every grip and lighting guy and ken, you know, all
Speaker 5: these people all around. I still to this day have
Speaker 5: a hard time with camera left. I don't know why
Speaker 5: they just don't say, take a step to your right, Cathy.
Speaker 5: So I had to learn all the technical stuff, and
Speaker 5: which I did. But Denaro Scorsese, God bless my poor
Speaker 5: Joe Patchy, who I just love dearly. So I do
Speaker 5: the screen test. They said they'll let me know in
Speaker 5: ten days. They called me the next they said you
Speaker 5: have the part. I said, all right, great, So now
Speaker 5: we're supposed to shoot in New York in three days
Speaker 5: after that, They're like, well, we changed our minds. We're
Speaker 5: going to do all the fight scenes first, so you're
Speaker 5: moving to California. And I wasn't completely sold on that.
Speaker 5: So when I first went out there, they put me
Speaker 5: up at the high End on Sunset and they cordially
Speaker 5: and quickly moved me to the Chateau or mom where
Speaker 5: everybody else was staying. Ah, but sun Sid Boulevard at
Speaker 5: that point, Schwabs was still there, which is where a
Speaker 5: Lana Turner was discovered, was where all the hookers were.
Speaker 5: So one day I had this really big, bright idea
Speaker 5: that I'm going to walk down to Schwaps. I needed
Speaker 5: shampoo and stuff, and then somebody held up a sign
Speaker 5: of asking me how much, and two girls told me
Speaker 5: to get off their beat. And I was like, uh oh,
Speaker 5: I don't think I understand the video of this, and
Speaker 5: its just another little blonde fucking moment for me.
Speaker 2: But O, could I tell you that's an amazing my
Speaker 2: silver story. And then you got nominated for an Oscar
Speaker 2: for your first role ever? I did, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: was your mind just like blown?
Speaker 3: Don't I don't even know?
Speaker 5: I didn't understand what anything. You don't you remember now.
Speaker 5: I met them in October of seventy eight. I didn't
Speaker 5: get to part until like February or March. So I
Speaker 5: worked with them for like five to six months. Then
Speaker 5: we went to la and we shot from April until Christmas.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 5: Then it took a whole another year for the movie
Speaker 5: to come out, right, didn't come out til the following Christmas.
Speaker 5: Then the nominations came out, and you know you're supposed
Speaker 5: to like really stay put and do like a campaign.
Speaker 5: Well I got nervous and I just left and went
Speaker 5: to Europe. So you know, I just didn't really do
Speaker 5: things completely right. So shame on me.
Speaker 3: No, I mean you were probably nineteen twenty.
Speaker 2: Who knows how I was the right thing about seventeen
Speaker 2: and eighteen, and I guess at the Oscars I got Yeah,
Speaker 2: while I did the movie, I was twenty at the
Speaker 2: Oscars or twenty one. Yeah.
Speaker 5: It just went on forever, you know, it went on forever.
Speaker 5: But you know, the greatest experience of a lifetime. And
Speaker 5: I will be indebted to all of them the rest
Speaker 5: of my life and completely grateful to them.
Speaker 2: Kathy Maury Artie, I can't.
Speaker 1: Like if you told me in fifth grade that I
Speaker 1: was gonna meet Montana Morehead from fucking soap Dish, I
Speaker 1: would have like fainted on the spot.
Speaker 2: She was so cool.
Speaker 3: No, she's incredible.
Speaker 2: I also love people that are like about the work
Speaker 2: and pick interesting characters and just embody them and like
Speaker 2: we said, like such serious moments but so much comedy
Speaker 2: layered underneath it and just like a badass. I love
Speaker 2: the way she talked about her kids, her life.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also just such a cool story of somebody Like honestly,
Speaker 1: you're watching stuff and you're like, I just found out
Speaker 1: Chris Pine is like also related to some famous Like
Speaker 1: you just don't have any idea how many people in
Speaker 1: this business are related to famous people. Like the nepotism
Speaker 1: is everywhere, And this is just a girl who was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to do this. I'm just gonna like move
Speaker 1: and see what happens and caught a huge break. And
Speaker 1: I just like to hear sort of like these Hollywood
Speaker 1: fairy tales of like a big break happening that doesn't
Speaker 1: have to do with like your dad getting you into
Speaker 1: like the business, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so I love that.
Speaker 1: I will say for what I've learned from this episode.
Speaker 1: Like I think this episode when I watched it originally
Speaker 1: and when I've watched it many times over the years,
Speaker 1: it like it always really reminds me that, like, I
Speaker 1: don't know that many people who are children of alcoholics,
Speaker 1: and a couple that I really do know, oh I do,
Speaker 1: but a couple that I do know are like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad's an alcoholic, but like whatever, he's just going
Speaker 1: to be like that, or a couple of them are
Speaker 1: like it's like a punchline that they bring up all
Speaker 1: the time, which I'm sure betrays a more deep pain
Speaker 1: that they have. But this episode really kind of makes
Speaker 1: me realize, like, oh wow, there's like all this hidden
Speaker 1: shit that you hide from the world when like your
Speaker 1: parent is at home like drinking constantly.
Speaker 2: And like abusing you, you know, yeah, or just anything
Speaker 2: that brings shame to you. Because I feel like people
Speaker 2: whose parents are hoarders or.
Speaker 3: You know, adult babies, like they want to hide all.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 1: I guess it's just like this girl was like, I'm
Speaker 1: a teenager, I'm like a fully formed person, and I
Speaker 1: can't like speak to my mom because like every time
Speaker 1: I try to talk to her she's drinking, she's an
Speaker 1: unreliable narrator, she's revising history. You know, it's just like
Speaker 1: you'd feel like you were going insane. It's like their
Speaker 1: entire personality is like gaslighting.
Speaker 2: You you know. Yeah. I also, I don't know if
Speaker 2: it happens often, but I do like the idea of
Speaker 2: hiding bottles of liquor in like the toilet tank. Always
Speaker 2: a toilet tank opening in the bottle life hang in there.
Speaker 1: In a light fixture that's hanging, like in the hamper,
Speaker 1: like wow, so many, so many creative places.
Speaker 2: It gave me a good treasure hunt like map of
Speaker 2: like Okay, this is what I'm going to search for
Speaker 2: and look for it all. Yeah, but great acting teens murder.
Speaker 2: Don't murder your parents, but you could get away with it,
Speaker 2: so that's kind of fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you have if you have severe periods, you
Speaker 1: might have PMDD or whatever PMD I forgot what it's called,
Speaker 1: but go get that checked out. I don't want you
Speaker 1: to murder anyone, even though that's not what happened in
Speaker 1: this episode.
Speaker 3: And oh yeah the real case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't murder your parents and go on like a
Speaker 1: joy ride vacation with your boyfriend. They're gonna find you.
Speaker 1: And I just was reminded of how much I love
Speaker 1: Glenn Hedley. Please watch Dirty Rotten Scoundrels if you've never
Speaker 1: seen it. It's like one of my favorite movies of
Speaker 1: all time.
Speaker 2: It's so good. No Scvu is just truly, I don't know,
Speaker 2: a little pot of talent, Like it really is incredible
Speaker 2: to be watching all of these actors.
Speaker 3: It really is.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think there's another television show that
Speaker 1: you can say gets as many people of the caliber
Speaker 1: that they get to just pop in all the time, right,
Speaker 1: Like there's nobody in the Guest Star Game like this show.
Speaker 2: Right. No, and not only just like incredible actors or
Speaker 2: very famous actors. We're talking theater, we're talking music business,
Speaker 2: we're talking the people that are coming to direct like
Speaker 2: we're really talking about just from all different walks of
Speaker 2: entertainment as well, athletes, I mean presidential government.
Speaker 3: People, yeah, vice presidents like you know, Serena Williams.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's mind boggling how many different avenues of
Speaker 2: talent are also on this show.
Speaker 3: And we're lucky to get to talk.
Speaker 5: To these people.
Speaker 1: I mean, we also learned that SVU is like predicting cases.
Speaker 1: I mean, like the Sick episode came out years before
Speaker 1: Gypsy Rose. This episode came out months before the Barber
Speaker 1: Moola X case. Like, it's just kind of wild when
Speaker 1: these like sort of specific crimes happen, not just like
Speaker 1: a and a murder, you know what I mean, like
Speaker 1: kind of more specific crimes happen, like after the show
Speaker 1: has done an episode about it.
Speaker 2: It's wild. So I guess this was just her love
Speaker 2: and ode to SVU, and we've learned where to hide
Speaker 2: our liquor and not to be, you know, to be
Speaker 2: a better parent. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta buy your you gotta buy your kid
Speaker 1: a wintercote in New York.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you gotta. You just gotta do it. Also,
Speaker 2: satutory rape, I don't know tough. I don't like twenty
Speaker 2: one and fifteen. I don't either, But I don't like
Speaker 2: trying to get away from your wild mom. I mean,
Speaker 2: Benson related like something.
Speaker 1: Even Benson was like even Benson was like I was sixteen,
Speaker 1: he was twenty. It was like a little bit closer
Speaker 1: or something when Benson told her story. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: we'll see when Rosie's a teenager and she's like, here's
Speaker 1: my forty year old boyfriend.
Speaker 2: But no, it was God. I'm just saying, I just
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen to me now, and she
Speaker 2: is truly going to be dating women, and I have
Speaker 2: no doubt about it too.
Speaker 1: No, she literally all week has been telling me about
Speaker 1: how she's dating. She's gonna marry her best friend Isabelle,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, very possible. But also, my sister told
Speaker 1: me that a friend of hers said this, and that
Speaker 1: a couple of people have said this to me as well,
Speaker 1: that I'm not giving Oscar enough exposure on this podcast. Guys,
Speaker 1: he's a baby. He doesn't do anything funny, he doesn't
Speaker 1: say anything funny. He doesn't have a fun relationship with Lisa.
Speaker 1: I love him to death. I'm gonna talk about him
Speaker 1: so soon as soon as he starts doing more shit.
Speaker 1: Please don't think I'm neglecting my other child. Rosie just
Speaker 1: talks like a full person and says funny shit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: They're like, wow, Oscar really gets the short end of
Speaker 1: the stick on that podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what should I say?
Speaker 1: Oh, Oscar spit food all over me today, lol, Like
Speaker 1: it's it's not in all.
Speaker 2: It's also not just the podcast. He's the second kid.
Speaker 2: No one cares. Sorry, sorry, Oscar cut that. Oscar can
Speaker 2: never hear me laughing at that, just kidding, keep it
Speaker 2: in all right. Isn't that the stereotype where the first
Speaker 2: kid all the rules and then the more and more
Speaker 2: kids by the youngest kid, it's like, yeah, give us shit, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, who cares?
Speaker 2: Give them?
Speaker 3: Honey?
Speaker 1: Yeah, my little brothers could do whatever they wanted after
Speaker 1: we pave the way for them. But speaking of children,
Speaker 1: let's get to our what would Sister Peg Do segment
Speaker 1: this week. What would Sister Peg Do is our weekly
Speaker 1: segment where we give you guys a charity, an organization,
Speaker 1: a book, a link to an article, something that's going
Speaker 1: to help flesh out a little bit more of what
Speaker 1: we touched on in today's episode. And today we wanted
Speaker 1: to highlight an organization called child Help. They are dedicated
Speaker 1: to helping victims of child abuse and neglect. Their approach
Speaker 1: focuses on prevention, intervention, and treatment, including their National Child
Speaker 1: Abuse Hotline that operates twenty four hours a day, sevent
Speaker 1: days a week. Their programs and services include residential treatment services,
Speaker 1: children's advocacy centers, therapeutic foster care and more. And if
Speaker 1: you'd like to learn more, please go to their website
Speaker 1: which is www dot childhelp dot org and if you
Speaker 1: need their assistance, you can call their hotline at one
Speaker 1: eight hundred for a child and yeah, that's childhelp dot Org.
Speaker 1: That's always going to be the day of the show release.
Speaker 1: That's going to be in our stories and then we
Speaker 1: save all of those in a highlight on our Instagram
Speaker 1: page called WWSPD.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that, Kara, And next week I
Speaker 2: hope you join us for a very highly requested episode.
Speaker 2: We are fulfilling all of your demands. We're doing forty
Speaker 2: one Witnesses. That's season seventeen, episode thirteen. Please watch along
Speaker 2: on Hulu. Peacock your VPN sticks and whatever illegal ways
Speaker 2: you are trying to get it, because we did meet
Speaker 2: some people from Canada that were like, stop fucking saying it,
Speaker 2: we can't find it, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Like somebody Also, somebody messaged us and said that the
Speaker 1: guys on SmartLess call Peacock the cock, and they were like,
Speaker 1: we feel like that's an opportunity for you guys. So
Speaker 1: you guys can check out SVU on the cock I
Speaker 1: do love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah Bye, guys, bitches, That's Messed Up as an Exactly
Speaker 2: Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information. Thank you so much to our producer on
Speaker 1: Alis Nelson, and to our mixer John Bradley, and to
Speaker 1: Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews
Speaker 1: for our artwork.
Speaker 2: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 2: Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly Right Media. Listen, follow
Speaker 2: and leave us the review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget.
Speaker 1: You can listen to new episodes one week early on
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Speaker 1: Wondry Plus in the Wondery app.
Speaker 4: Done. Done,