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Speaker 1: On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly, the Netflix show

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Speaker 1: Cheer took viewers inside the world of competitive cheerleading and

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Speaker 1: made stars out of its athletes and coaches. Our producer

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Speaker 1: Jess R. Mooski sits down with the Queen of Cheer,

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Speaker 1: Monica Aldama, to discuss winning her latest national championship and

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Speaker 1: the sports explosion in popularity, and later MLB teams are

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Speaker 1: using the shift more than ever. SI writer m A.

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Speaker 1: Bachelari explains why that is, why the shift is so effective,

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Speaker 1: and why baseball is changing the rules next season. But first,

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Speaker 1: The Kentucky Derby is this weekend, but one of the

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Speaker 1: sports most notable and notorious figures won't be there. Bob

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Speaker 1: Bafford has had more than thirty of his horses failed

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Speaker 1: drug tests and was subsequently banned from Churchill Downs for

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Speaker 1: two years due to doping allegations. SI senior writer Pat

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Speaker 1: Forty joins us to discuss the controversial horse trainer. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: May fourth. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated

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Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. Get

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Speaker 1: into the finish and the Kentucky Derby. Here's the wire,

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Speaker 1: Black Friend doesn't again the spirit. That's what the Kentucky Derby.

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Speaker 1: I got some horrible news Mendina's spirit our Derby horse

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Speaker 1: tested positive for data method zone. I got the biggest

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Speaker 1: gut punch in racing for something that I didn't do.

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Speaker 1: Churchill Downs cracking down, releasing a bombshell just at for

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Speaker 1: four o'clock today, the best known name in the sport

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Speaker 1: of horse racing is now suspended for two years from

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Speaker 1: the Louisville Track and others owned by Churchill Downs. Messing

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Speaker 1: with the run for the Roses is considered a mortal

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Speaker 1: sin in racing, and Bafford has done exactly that. A

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Speaker 1: Spirit became just the second medication d Q in the

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Speaker 1: history of America's oldest continuous sporting event. Even the biggest

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Speaker 1: name and the most recognizable figure in the sport had

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Speaker 1: to face this truth, as delivered by Churchill Downs. Nobody

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Speaker 1: is bigger than the Kentucky Derby. Pat forty, Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Sports Illustrator Weekly. John, Thank you thanks for having

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Speaker 1: me give us some background on Bob Bafford and his

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Speaker 1: place in horse racing history. You can make a convincing

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Speaker 1: argument that Bob is the greatest trainer in the history

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Speaker 1: of a very very old sport. He's one six Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Derby's was seven last year until the disqualification, which is

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Speaker 1: the heart of the story. UH sixteen triple Crown races overall,

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Speaker 1: and h has established himself as the guy who's the

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Speaker 1: big personality, gets the best horses, gets the richest owners,

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Speaker 1: and finds his way into the winner circle more than

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Speaker 1: anyone in the big races. So, as you mentioned, six

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Speaker 1: different Kentucky Derby winners would have been seven. The Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Derby is this weekend. Baffort will not be there. He

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Speaker 1: was banned from Churchill Downs for at least two years.

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Speaker 1: Explain to everybody what happened for that to transpire. Bob's

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Speaker 1: erstwhile one Kentucky Derby winner for a period of about

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Speaker 1: a week Medina's Spirit across the finish line first, but

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Speaker 1: then uh failed a drug test for an excessive amount

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Speaker 1: of beta methasone, which is a allowable substance, but on

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Speaker 1: race day can only be at a certain level, and

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Speaker 1: this hourse had a medical overage of that level. UH,

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Speaker 1: and so he was disqualified. And this was the latest

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Speaker 1: in a spate a very high profile positive drug tests

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Speaker 1: for Bafford horses, including one in the Kentucky Oaks, which

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Speaker 1: is the second biggest race that Churchill Downs puts on.

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Speaker 1: So the Kentucky Derby is the most sacrosanct event in

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Speaker 1: thoroughbred racing. And while there is has been a I

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Speaker 1: think alarming tolerance of medicating and possibly just outright cheating

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Speaker 1: and drugging horses in therbid racing, you don't mess with

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Speaker 1: the Kentucky Derby, and he messed with it and now

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Speaker 1: he is facing a two year ban as a result. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: As you wrote in the piece, Churchill Downs is sacrosanct

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Speaker 1: and it's considered off limits for these types of things.

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Speaker 1: And yet Bafford was caught in violation and Churchill Downs

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Speaker 1: hasn't just banned him, right, They've removed imagery of him.

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Speaker 1: You wrote that they've basically deep badvertised the grounds. Yeah. Right.

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Speaker 1: His barn, Barn thirty three on the backside, was the

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Speaker 1: the gathering spot for fans for media curious, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: onlookers every year virtually from seven when he first came

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Speaker 1: to the Derby, actually ninety six Kevin here through last year.

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Speaker 1: He had an incredible run and people flocked there and

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Speaker 1: he had a wall that was covered outside of the

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Speaker 1: barn with you know, plaques commemorating his Derby wins and

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Speaker 1: his triple Crown horses. He's had two of those. There's

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Speaker 1: only been thirteen in history. He's had the two most

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Speaker 1: recent American pharaoh in and justifying, and those plaques are

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Speaker 1: all gone. That is now just a plain beige wall

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Speaker 1: the stalls of horses where he usually brought in a

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Speaker 1: powerhouse squad with him from California for not just the

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Speaker 1: Kentucky Derby, but other races in the spring. In Churchill

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Speaker 1: Downs empty there used to be a Baffort lounge on

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Speaker 1: the second floor grandstand at Churchill Downs. That's now the

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Speaker 1: Ben Jones Lounge, which is the other trainer who to

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Speaker 1: have won six Derbys. So I guess Johnny would say

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Speaker 1: that this just has all the makings of a bad

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Speaker 1: breakup or a bad divorce, wherein one couple through all

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Speaker 1: the other couples, one spouse, through the other house's belongings,

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Speaker 1: all out on the yard basically and said get lost. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, these two were so symbiotic Bafford and Churchill

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Speaker 1: Downs for so long. And yet, as you mentioned, Medina's

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Speaker 1: spirit popping that positive wasn't a one off incident. It

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Speaker 1: was the fifth violation for Badford in thirteen months of

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Speaker 1: Churchill downs bans him as a result, and Badford does

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Speaker 1: not take this well. He goes on Fox News and

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Speaker 1: he rails against cancel culture in this unhinged rant. We

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Speaker 1: live in a different world now, this this America is

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Speaker 1: different and uh, this it was like a chancel culture

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Speaker 1: kind of a thing. I'm wondering though, how he's taking

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Speaker 1: it lately. What did he and his lawyers have to

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Speaker 1: tell you? Uh, well, his lawyer is still pretty bellicos.

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Speaker 1: He's got a couple of guys who represent him, and

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Speaker 1: they insist that he has been maligned, unfairly singled out,

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Speaker 1: that they can come up with reasonable explanations for each

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Speaker 1: of these medication overridges. Uh and that as Bob Baffort's

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Speaker 1: a big name, they wanted to make an example of him. Uh. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, Baffort and Churchill downs. It's really it feels

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Speaker 1: like it's gotten personal. So it's been a ren escalating

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Speaker 1: war of words. And for Churchill not just to ban him,

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Speaker 1: but to basically scrub Baffort from the premises, tells you

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Speaker 1: how it feels and Baffort will continue to I think,

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Speaker 1: to fight in any way possible. He has not laid

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Speaker 1: down and accepted really any of the rulings that have

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Speaker 1: gone against him, and he's lost several of them recently

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Speaker 1: in court as he's tried to get in this ban overturned.

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Speaker 1: I expect him to continue to be a thorn in

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Speaker 1: the side of Churchill Downs until they let him back

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Speaker 1: into UH to saddle horses. But it's not just Churchill

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Speaker 1: Downs accusing Bafford of this, right, I mean, none of

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Speaker 1: these allegations are new. More than thirty horses have tested

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Speaker 1: positive in the past the combination of drugs. What other

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Speaker 1: states and tracks have had these same sort of accusations

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Speaker 1: leveled against Bafford. Well, Bafford he did have two big

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Speaker 1: positive tests in Arkansas at Hot Springs there with two

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Speaker 1: high level horses, UH and then also had one at

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Speaker 1: Santa Anita, his home base in southern California. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: these are things that that have not just been it's

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Speaker 1: not just been a Churchill problem, it's been a Baffort

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Speaker 1: problem and UH it's followed him around the country and

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to see that some other tracks, even like

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Speaker 1: he hasn't had a problem a regulatory problem in New York,

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Speaker 1: but New York has opted to try to ban Bafford

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Speaker 1: as well from from its racing there and obviously will

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Speaker 1: take him out of the Belmont Steaks. He's not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to race at the Preakness in Baltimore,

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Speaker 1: so he's effectively out of this Triple Crown. And we'll

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Speaker 1: see how long those tracks continue to try to exclude

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Speaker 1: Bob Bafford from their races, because I mean, the races

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Speaker 1: will go on without him and people will still show

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Speaker 1: up and bet. But if you want the casual fan

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Speaker 1: to show any interest, you want Bob Bafford there, but

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Speaker 1: he's got to be able to do it within the

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Speaker 1: rules of the game. Yeah, it feels like the controversy

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Speaker 1: around Bafford really ramped up in December when Medita Spirit died.

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Speaker 1: Santa Anita official say Medina Spirit collapsed after a morning

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Speaker 1: workout and died of a probable cardiac event. The veterinary

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Speaker 1: team took blood, hair, and urine samples which were sent

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Speaker 1: to the California Horse Racing Board a full necropsy, and

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Speaker 1: that really put the spotlight back on him, and not

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Speaker 1: in a good way he's had seventy four horses die,

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Speaker 1: not all race related, but still it feels like a

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Speaker 1: really big number. I'm wondering what people inside the horse

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Speaker 1: racing community, other trainers feel about Bafford's methods. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: a great question. Uh, and I'd say there's a split,

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Speaker 1: because there's still there's a lot of people that respect him,

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Speaker 1: admire him, appreciate the way he's kind of elevated the

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Speaker 1: the profile of the sport at times, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of them training the way he does training your horses hard,

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Speaker 1: or uh, the way that he will build up to

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Speaker 1: big races, or quite frankly, maybe even the way that

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Speaker 1: horses are medicated. So there is a certain school among

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Speaker 1: the trainers and and other people in the throwbred industry

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Speaker 1: who do not look at him as a pariah. And

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Speaker 1: then there are others who absolutely do and and think

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Speaker 1: that he has been getting away with with a lot

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Speaker 1: worse than what he's been caught with, even though there

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Speaker 1: has not been evidence of that. But one of the

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Speaker 1: big problems with horse racing is that most people have

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Speaker 1: felt there is a common thread and undercurrent that the

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Speaker 1: medications have been ahead of the testing for quite some time.

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Speaker 1: Somewhat similar to the way baseball used to be, the

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Speaker 1: way Olympic sports are. And if the sport is that

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Speaker 1: dirty top to bottom and he's that much better than

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Speaker 1: everybody else, then there's a lot of people to think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason why he's that much better than everybody

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Speaker 1: Else's not that he's an exalted trainer per se, although

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody doubts his wordsmanship. But what makes

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Speaker 1: him so much better, Well, maybe it's the same thing

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Speaker 1: that made Lance Armstrong so much better in the Tour

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Speaker 1: de France. Yeah, that's a really great point that you

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Speaker 1: bring up about the medications maybe being ahead of the testing.

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Speaker 1: Two years ago, the U. S. Attorney's Office charged twenty

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Speaker 1: seven people with essentially international doping scheme, and in it

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Speaker 1: they said that the standardized testing can't really detect these

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Speaker 1: designer drugs. So do we think that like a lot

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Speaker 1: more horses could be on performance enhancers that we don't

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Speaker 1: know about. I think they certainly have been. And whether

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Speaker 1: that that federal crackdown changes that or not, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And again I can't I'm not sitting here saying Bob

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Speaker 1: Bafford drugged his horses or so and so drugged their horses. Now,

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Speaker 1: the people that were caught in that federal sting, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's proof that they did it. But is there a belief, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that there's been a lot of designer drugs going around

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Speaker 1: race tracks and and that horses have been ramped up

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Speaker 1: on those for for quite a while. Yes, yes there is.

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Speaker 1: Bafford is obviously the biggest example of this problem within

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Speaker 1: horse racing, but he's not the exception, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's sort of the rule. Yeah, No, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think that there there are plenty of people out there

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Speaker 1: who believe that. That's just kind of one of the

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Speaker 1: things that you have had had to do over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of decades to succeed in thoroughbred racing. Is

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Speaker 1: you know, if if your competitors are medicating their horses

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Speaker 1: with whatever the substances, you better find a way to

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Speaker 1: do it as well. So the guys who have been

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Speaker 1: caught in this sting are not necessarily the only people

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Speaker 1: perpetrating under the table medication, just the way in the

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Speaker 1: the FBI UH scandal in college basketball they caught some,

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Speaker 1: but everybody else was doing it as well. We're spending

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Speaker 1: a lot of time here talking about Bafford and these

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Speaker 1: other trainers and the people that are involved in it,

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Speaker 1: But I'm wondering about the actual animals and the impact

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Speaker 1: on their health and their lifespan and who's watching out

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Speaker 1: for them. Well, I mean that's a huge question and

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Speaker 1: it's been one of the I think real lightning rod

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Speaker 1: topics and horse racing is, you know, are these animals

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Speaker 1: basically being abused? Are they being drugged just so they

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Speaker 1: can run and then be sold quickly for for breeding right?

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Speaker 1: And their health and uh, longevity is compromised in that way.

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Speaker 1: And one of the big problems in the sport is

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Speaker 1: that these are three year olds that compete for the

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Speaker 1: Triple Crown. Three is a young age for a horse.

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Speaker 1: They are pushed hard to be ready at basically a

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Speaker 1: premature age. What's the stress level of that, what's the impact?

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Speaker 1: How many get injured? And it's pretty shocking number how

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Speaker 1: many horses that if you pushed them towards the Kentucky

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Speaker 1: Derby and the Triple Crown either don't race again or

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Speaker 1: never the same again. Trainer Chad Brown, who actually has

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Speaker 1: a favorite in this year's Derby, said, you know that

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Speaker 1: there is often a price to be paid for taking

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Speaker 1: a big swing at the Kentucky Derby, and that's your

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Speaker 1: horses just may not recover from being pushed that hard

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Speaker 1: that early. Yeah, Bafford took a lot of big swings,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, and he was basically held up as

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Speaker 1: a legend in this sport and now has had this

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Speaker 1: fall from grace. How do people who may be used

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Speaker 1: to exalt by Badford think about him now? I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's the overarching thought on Bob Bafford in the sport?

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of disappointment, disillusionment, anger even.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a guy, I'll be honest. I had

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Speaker 1: a great relationship with Bob. Haven't spoken him for a

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Speaker 1: while now, but he was incredibly media friendly. He was available,

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Speaker 1: he was glib, he was funny. Uh. You know, you

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Speaker 1: deal with enough football and basketball coaches who are paranoid

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Speaker 1: and standoffish, and then you go to the racetrack and

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Speaker 1: it's like, hey, the rock star of the sport is like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: come on buy anytime. You know, what do you need

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Speaker 1: da da da, you know, and talk to him for

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Speaker 1: an hour. So you like those kind of people in

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Speaker 1: our business. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're doing everything

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Speaker 1: the way they're supposed to be doing them. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: people and I'd probably put myself in this boat that

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Speaker 1: was like you kind of wondered and you you were like,

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Speaker 1: is this all legitimate? And then these tests keep popping

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Speaker 1: up and finally it's like, you know what, you I

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Speaker 1: have an excuse for all of them. But the accumulative

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Speaker 1: effect is it's it's just not believable. It's not believable

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Speaker 1: that you aren't improperly medicating your horses. So what happens

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Speaker 1: with him now moving forward? Because I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, uh if they had, if they were subjected

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Speaker 1: to this kind of scrutinty and they had had this

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Speaker 1: uh fall from grace, maybe they would go away. But

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Speaker 1: it seems from your reporting that he has designs on

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Speaker 1: staying in the sport right. Absolutely, He's still got some

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Speaker 1: deep pocket owners who believe in him and know that

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Speaker 1: he can get their horses to the top level. UH.

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Speaker 1: In April, he bought a two point three million dollar

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Speaker 1: two year old with Amr Zadan, who is the owner

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Speaker 1: of Medina spirit UH and the owner of Tava and

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Speaker 1: this year's Kentucky Derby, which had been in Badford's born

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Speaker 1: and so you know, the belief is, you know, you

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Speaker 1: don't spend that kind of money on horses to see

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Speaker 1: if they're gonna be okay in the sixth race at Aqueduct.

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Speaker 1: You're just taking a swing at the big races. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so if Badford's going to continue to have that

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Speaker 1: clientele and contin need to be able to spend that

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Speaker 1: kind of money on good horses, I expect that he

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Speaker 1: he will certainly attempt to be in the game and

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Speaker 1: at the top of the game for years to come.

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Speaker 1: He's got the money, he's taken those swings, but he's

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Speaker 1: still suspended from the Kentucky Derby for two years. Do

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Speaker 1: you think we'll see him back there again? I think

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Speaker 1: he has every intention of being back there. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: if Churchill Downs two year band runs out, I don't

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Speaker 1: think they would have much recourse to keep him from

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Speaker 1: coming back. So I would expect Bob Baffort on the

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Speaker 1: first Saturday and May is saddling a horse at Churchill

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Speaker 1: Downs to compete in the derby, and there will be

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Speaker 1: some gritting of teeth from people to Churchill Downs Incorporated.

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Speaker 1: All Right, So Bafford is out, but then that leaves

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Speaker 1: somebody in his place. Tell us about his assistant and

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Speaker 1: the lottery ticket he told you about. Yeah, fascinating wrinkle

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Speaker 1: there that while Bob Bafford is out, his horses are

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Speaker 1: in right, Messier and Taba, two of his star three

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Speaker 1: year olds that finished one two in the San da

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Speaker 1: Nio Derby. They were transferred out of Baffort's born in

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Speaker 1: March when it became clear that he had exhausted all

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Speaker 1: his legal options to try to get into the derby,

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Speaker 1: and they were given to Tim Yaktine, who had been

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Speaker 1: a former Baffort assistant. Uh, it's a really a pretty

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Speaker 1: low profile trainer, like a guy who's never been to

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Speaker 1: the derby and really never been close to the derby.

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Speaker 1: Has had some decent horses, but this is a guy

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Speaker 1: who's never really operated at that level, and now all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden he inherits two incredibly talented horses. They

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Speaker 1: run one two in Santa Anita and they're going to

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Speaker 1: the derby and they're gonna be, you know, among the

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Speaker 1: five or six horses that have a chance to win

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Speaker 1: this thing. Most people think, And uh, yakteen, he's he's

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Speaker 1: He's an interesting guy, uh friendly, but by no means

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Speaker 1: ready for this spotlight at all. He's never had any

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Speaker 1: spotlight on him in his life, and so he's kind

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Speaker 1: of dealing with this. And he did have a great

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Speaker 1: quote about it where he said that he felt like

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Speaker 1: a lottery ticket fell in his lap and he's just

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Speaker 1: trying to get to the window to cash it. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that's kind of the where he is.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's an incredible opportunity, but also a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure that comes with this spot This is quite

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Speaker 1: a story. You can read his excellent piece about Bob

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Speaker 1: Bafford and horse racing on si dot com and we'll

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Speaker 1: link to it in our show notes. Pat forty as

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Speaker 1: always great work, Thanks for this, Thank you John. After

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Speaker 1: a break, we look at the world of competitive cheerleading

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Speaker 1: and the Netflix show that made the sport explode in popularity.

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Speaker 1: They've won the Grand Championship several times. They could beat anybody.

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Speaker 1: People from all over the country come here to cheerful Monica.

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Speaker 1: Where is it located? Where I guess I'm going there.

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Speaker 1: My goal was to be the best cheer program in

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Speaker 1: the country. On January, Netflix released the docuse series Cheer

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Speaker 1: which made stars out of the Navarro College cheerleading team

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Speaker 1: and its coach, Monica Aldama. First of all, none of

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Speaker 1: us had a clue that this show would be popular.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it is cheerleading, and cheerleading does have

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Speaker 1: a bad rapp It has a stereotype of, you know,

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Speaker 1: this typical main girl, little popular person that's just trying

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Speaker 1: to look cute too. The boy ed everything you're not

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Speaker 1: I'm and that's not what cheerleading has become at all.

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Speaker 1: Last month, Monica Aldama and her team won their second

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Speaker 1: national championship in three years and their fifteenth overall and

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Speaker 1: our Van clark Ed Junior college national champion within ninety

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Speaker 1: nine to one. It was redemption for Navarro. They won

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Speaker 1: the n c A College Nationals in nineteen, which was

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Speaker 1: documented on the first season of cheer In. Their championship

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Speaker 1: was canceled due to COVID and in their rival Trinity

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Speaker 1: Valley Community College took back the crown, which was seen

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Speaker 1: on the second season of Cheer. Our producer Jess R.

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Speaker 1: Moski has watched the show more times than she'd like

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Speaker 1: to admit. She sat down with Monica Aldama to discuss

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Speaker 1: her latest national championship. Here's Jess with the Queen of

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Speaker 1: Cheer Monica. First, congratulations on winning your fifteenth title. That

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Speaker 1: is amazing. How does this one feel different from the others?

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Speaker 1: The first one was amazing. We've never done it before

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Speaker 1: and there were zero expectations from anyone. But the more

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Speaker 1: you in, the more people think you should win. And

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Speaker 1: so I think over the years there's been a tremendous

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Speaker 1: amount of pressure on myself that I put on myself, um,

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to disappoint anyone. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to disappoint the school, or the community, or our alumni

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Speaker 1: or anyone. And then of course cheer came out and

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Speaker 1: the whole world became invested in what we were doing.

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Speaker 1: So it was the pressure that I already had times

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Speaker 1: a million, and um, coming off such a tough year

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Speaker 1: last year, I think that I just thought so much

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Speaker 1: relief after we went out there and did our job.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I knew that we had put in the work.

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Speaker 1: I knew that we were ready. And that's the only

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Speaker 1: thing that I know that I can do every year

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Speaker 1: is go and have zero regrets that as their coach,

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Speaker 1: I just need to know that I've done everything that

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Speaker 1: I can to prepare them and get them ready, and

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Speaker 1: I knew I had done that. It's already a very

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Speaker 1: difficult thing to execute. Our job is to make it

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Speaker 1: look easy, so hopefully we do that, but it's not

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Speaker 1: easy at all. It takes a lot of practice, a

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Speaker 1: lot of hours. So to take all of that and

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Speaker 1: then throw it outside in the sun, that heat, in

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Speaker 1: the wind. I mean, any given sunday, you don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen, and from somebody who's just sitting

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Speaker 1: on my couch under a blanket watching you, you do

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Speaker 1: make it look easy, I have to say, But I

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Speaker 1: do have to ask, like I could barely watch your routines,

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Speaker 1: Like I get so nervous that I sit there like

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Speaker 1: with my hands over my eyes. Same thing happened when

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Speaker 1: I watched the live stream of two UM and you're

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Speaker 1: there at the edge of the stage and you're knowing

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it could be a fluke, but like

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Speaker 1: one millimeter off and and and things could just go south.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you breathe? And every time a

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Speaker 1: stunt goes up successfully, are you just like yeah, celebrating

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Speaker 1: and then you're like onto the next one or like,

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Speaker 1: what is going through your mind there? Like you must

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Speaker 1: be so nervous. Oh, so nervous. And I can't show it,

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Speaker 1: you know, as the coach, I can't. I just but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't watch it for entertainment. I'm strictly looking. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking when they're tumbling, I'm looking at their feet. Did

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Speaker 1: they land on their feet? Are they all together? Did

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Speaker 1: the stunts go up? It's like I'm just checking off

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Speaker 1: the boxes as they complete the skills, and then, like

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Speaker 1: I said, but it's building up. It's this energy that

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Speaker 1: builds up, and as they're checking off more and more boxes,

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Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, we're doing it. We're doing it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's exciting, it's scary, it's exciting. It's an emotion that

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Speaker 1: is just out of this world. We did the hardest

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Speaker 1: routine this year. We really tried to push. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you lose, it really pushes you. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: always push ourselves, but coming off of a year that

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Speaker 1: we had lost the determination and these kids was just

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Speaker 1: every day they there was no question that we were

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Speaker 1: gonna work our butts off, you know, every single day

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Speaker 1: in the jo. No complaints. I love pyramids, So that's

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Speaker 1: that part where there's multiple people holding and I I

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Speaker 1: that's kind of one of the things that I love

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Speaker 1: to choreograph. I love visual I love it to look

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Speaker 1: like a circus. And so I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: sleepless nights where I was thinking about the pyramid and

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Speaker 1: what we were gonna do. And there's no motivation like losing,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, we just paid everything we had into it.

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Speaker 1: And for listeners at home, the pyramid is like three

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Speaker 1: levels of people, I think, and then you have one Gabby.

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Speaker 1: I think it was backhand springing up to the top

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Speaker 1: of the pyramid. I gotta watch it. It's just it's insane. Um.

426
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 1: Cheer is kind of this niche sport, or at least

427
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: it was for most people. For you, obviously, it's been

428
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: your life, but it exploded in popularity with the show.

429
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: So when I was approached many years ago about doing cheer,

430
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm actually a very private person. I would never want

431
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: cameras in my face or anything like that. I was

432
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: just proud of my team and I wanted to holight them.

433
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't go to college to coach cheerleading.

434
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: I thought I would be on Wall Street running some

435
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: big company and and this just kind of fell in

436
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: my lap. And even then I was super young. I

437
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: was two years old when I started here, so I thought,

438
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: I'll just do this until I figure out what I

439
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: want to do. And then this year and I'm still here.

440
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: So it's already pretty improbable that you're here, you know,

441
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: coaching this team. And it's even more improbable it seems

442
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: that suddenly this film crew shows up and says, we're

443
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: going to make a show about cheerleading, and suddenly it's

444
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: one of the world's most popular shows. When Greg Whiteley,

445
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: who created cheer when when they came out here, I

446
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: don't think they even had a clue what they were

447
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: going to be filming. They just kind of were intrigued

448
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: on some cheerleaders that they had seen filming Last Chance You.

449
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: And it's so funny because you said it's scary to

450
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: watch that. The crew was terrified. For the first week,

451
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: it was oh, they would they screamed, they were just

452
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: you know, like and then they got Yeah, they got

453
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: used to it and they were like, Okay, it's even

454
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: more impressive in person. If you watch it, it's like wow,

455
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, but they got so they got to see

456
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: the behind the scenes too, so they saw the falls

457
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: and it took him about a week to be like, Okay,

458
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: who I can do this. Greg said in an interview

459
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: that these were the most athletic kids had ever filmed,

460
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: and that's that says a lot. So spoiler alert to

461
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: any listeners who have yet to finish cheer Season two,

462
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: but you guys did not win the championship. And I

463
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: will never forget A scene that stood out to me

464
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: was you walking off the mat with your armor on

465
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: Jillian Grouper. Yeah, sorry, it was fine. Jillian had fallen,

466
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: just one of the flyers, and she had fallen during

467
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: the routine, and I just remember thinking, you really seem

468
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: to be the coach that she needed at that point,

469
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: and I just want to know what were you thinking.

470
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: What was that moment like for you? Well, um, you

471
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: know it. I was trying to process it because it

472
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: wasn't a huge mistake, but I know cheerleading, and I

473
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: know if you make a mistake, you're gonna get hit

474
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: really hard for that mistake, and so I knew that

475
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: that did probably cost us. Wasn't in the actual stunt.

476
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: It was in the transition of the stunt and something

477
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: that was very flukish like it never had happened at practice.

478
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: We still don't to this day. We watched it, We're like,

479
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: what happened? We don't know. What I do know is

480
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: that the guilt that these kids can carry with them

481
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: forever over knowing that if we would have hit, we

482
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: would have won. We had hit the day before, we

483
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: were in first place. But like I said, I knew.

484
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: I was like, this is probably cost us the national championship.

485
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: And I just know how much that can really stay

486
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: with someone. And I did not want her to feel

487
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: that guilt. And you know, she's really I mean, she's

488
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: got death threats. It's crazy enough, yea, through once the

489
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: show came out, some of the things that people have

490
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: deemed her or commented on her about it was your

491
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: fault and just people are really mean and nasty. But

492
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: the good thing is the team has lifted her up,

493
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: you know, even then, And and it didn't show poor Alex,

494
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: but her partner, I consoled him for a good thirty minutes.

495
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: He cried like I had not. I mean, I just

496
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: as a parent, I just can't imagine that weight that

497
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,239
Speaker 1: my child would have to carry. And I didn't want

498
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: them to feel that, you know, and the team was

499
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: very supportive and then this year we've just kind of

500
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: laughed about it. So I think it was great this

501
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: year for a little bit of a redemption for her

502
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: and Alex to just get some of that weight off

503
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: of them, you know, from last year. This show really

504
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: and and your your division is really the perfect setup

505
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: for a championship storyline. You have these two schools, you

506
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: have this big rivalry, and then you have these flip

507
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: flopping teams. You guys, was bad, now you have it

508
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: back in two. Can you just take us through the

509
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: rivalry with Navarro and Trinity Valley Community College. What's it

510
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: mean to the communities and what's it been like? You know,

511
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: I think it's it's so intriguing because we are so

512
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: close to each other, two small junior colleges that are

513
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: thirty five minutes from each other, just down the road,

514
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: and so we play each other in all sports, you know,

515
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: we we play each other in football, we play each

516
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: other in basketball, volleyball. So it's a unique situation. Um

517
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: when I came here, so I started here at the

518
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: college back in and we had never won before and

519
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: Trinity Valley was the team to be So then obviously

520
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: once we won. It was kind of like, wait a minute,

521
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: now we have some competition and we're so close to

522
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: each other. So I think that's probably in the you know,

523
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: the rivalry kind of started growing because they finally had

524
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: some competition and we were so close, and we're just

525
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: battling back and forth. We're battling for recruits, were battling

526
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: for national championships, were battling in all the different sports.

527
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: It's a very unique situation. I think some viewers were like, wait,

528
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: there's like two teams in your division at Nationals. And

529
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: that's almost by design, right, because I watched almost every

530
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: routine in the Nationals, and I mean, my humble opinion

531
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: is that your two schools, I mean above and beyond

532
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: the competition. So how really did two junior colleges in

533
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: Texas you guys are are, in my opinion, competing at

534
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: a higher level than than some of the D one schools.

535
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 1: How does that work? Thank you for bringing that up,

536
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: first of all, because I get some very hateful comments,

537
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: you know, like wow, good job to teams, you know,

538
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: and they don't get it. And the thing about it

539
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: is is when we go out there, we go out

540
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: there to have the higher score. Of the entire car

541
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: petition because we want to be able to say no, no, no,

542
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: we didn't just beat one team. We're like really good.

543
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: You know. We have scored the highest score of the

544
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: entire competition six times out of all our fifteen national championships,

545
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: and this year including we had beat every every team there.

546
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: We beat their score and we set another record. You

547
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: seem to kind of undergo this transformation, you and the

548
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: whole team between seasons one and two. It's almost like overnight,

549
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: same just knocked down your door. And given the success

550
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: of the show, right, that's not surprising. But what was

551
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: it like? I mean, you said you were a private person.

552
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: What was it like to sort of wake up one

553
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: morning and have the entire world paying attention? What was

554
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: that like for you and for the team? It was interesting,

555
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: to say the least. I mean to see people perceive

556
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: me in all different ways because I got so many,

557
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: so many things from that. I was crazy to this

558
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: and some people love me and that was a little

559
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: bit of a shock to my system. Um, I had

560
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: to learn how to deal with it. This is the

561
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: season of blocking. I never blocked anybody in. I just

562
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: let them attack me. I did it I'd let them

563
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: attack me in and I was this year, I was like,

564
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: you know what, this is my personal space, this is

565
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: my social media. Do not come over to my space

566
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: and say these horrible things. So I just started blocking

567
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: people and it's never felt so good. But you know,

568
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: as far as the team goes, I mean, it was

569
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: really wild because the campus, we had to cover our windows.

570
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: We had people um in the gym, we would have

571
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: people filming us through the windows. Busloads of people stopping

572
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: every single day. The amount of people on campus every

573
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: single day, it was a little bit out of control.

574
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: So we tried to put some parameters up and try

575
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: to add a little bit more security. But you know,

576
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: when we were in practice, I know there was a

577
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: lot of talk in the media that year like, oh,

578
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: they're they're gonna lose their focus, They're not gonna do

579
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: well in Daytona, all this attention, they're going to Ellen

580
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: and they're going to New York and and that wasn't

581
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: it at all. We were just so determined to prove

582
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: everyone wrong about losing our focus. So yes, it was

583
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: probably a big adjustment for a lot of them to

584
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: get used to. But when it came to practice and

585
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: our goals for Daytona that was in a bubble that

586
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: we were protecting, and that has to be so hard because,

587
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, and maybe it was sort of unfavorable editing

588
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: in season two, but it did seem like you guys

589
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: were going through some things. Sometimes we think Monica is

590
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: like this alien superhero woman who can take on anything,

591
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: and we have to remember that she's human. So frustrating.

592
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: It's almost like, you know, that year of bad luck,

593
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: I mean over a year, you know, and I don't

594
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: know if she broke a merselven years ago or something,

595
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: but it's just like she has just had really just

596
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: bad luck. She's going to have days that just like

597
00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: we do, that you're going to be like, is this

598
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: even worth it? You had COVID, you had the Jerry

599
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: Harris news that came out. Jerry Harris won the hearts

600
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: of fans with this famous Matt talks. But now Harris

601
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: is under arrest, appearing in court Thursday, accused of repeatedly

602
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: asking a thirteen year old to produce sexually explicit videos

603
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: and photographs of himself. So suddenly it seems like season

604
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: two was kind of almost less a show about cheerleading

605
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: and more a show about a group of people just

606
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: sort of trying to adapt to this instant fame. Yeah,

607
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: well it was a talk two years that was reality

608
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: and we were overwhelmed. I was working fourteen hour days minimum,

609
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: I was not sleeping, and I didn't even know to

610
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: expect this, and um, yes, we had a very tough

611
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: couple of years, and I think you saw a lot

612
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: of sadness in my face. I watched it and I

613
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: was like, jeez, I was really going through it. The

614
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: Jerry stuff just tore me down, and and then the

615
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: fallout that I have with La Darius, like that just

616
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: hurt my heart. And so I was really struggling. Yeah,

617
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: it was just a really tough couple of years. But

618
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: it wasn't it was everything. It was just like spiraling,

619
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, this year has been so great

620
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: because I finally, you know, we're in a better place

621
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: and healed from a lot of that and you know,

622
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: gotten ourselves in a better situation. So so obviously you're

623
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: on a podcast for Sports Illustrated and you're I've obviously

624
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: heard this before that oh, cheerleading is not a sport,

625
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't count. I mean, what would you say

626
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: to those naysayers who are like, this isn't bad athletic.

627
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: I've never been offended when people say it's not a

628
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: sport because I'm like, okay, well to each his own,

629
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: I don't care. But if you say they're not athletic,

630
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: that's where I will become offended because and I think

631
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: when Cheer came out, that's where people were like, whoa,

632
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: people are not just athletic. They're probably more outlet than

633
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: than most of the you know people that I know

634
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: the athleticism that it takes to compete a routine that

635
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: we do. And obviously there's a lot of routines that

636
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: are easier, but what we do and we're pushing ourselves

637
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: and and and going full out. The term full out

638
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: means we're doing our routine with all of the skills executed.

639
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: It's like running as fast as you can for two

640
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: minutes and fifteen seconds. And it doesn't sound like that

641
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: that might be that hard, but go try it and

642
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: just say, you know, because you you don't really have

643
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: a moment to breathe yet we're expecting you to throw

644
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: people up and catch them and and flip your bodies

645
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: and and do all these crazy things. Without a moment

646
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: to breathe. Because our our routines are very fast paced.

647
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: I'm not one to go, oh, you don't think it's

648
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: a sport. Well that's fine, I get it. But if

649
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: you say these kids are not athletic, then we're gonna

650
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: have a whole conversation. You're about to re invent the

651
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: sport again. Uh this summer with this cheer tour, Cheerly

652
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: is from Navarro ANDTVCC. What is the cheer Tour? What's

653
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: it going to look like? So it is going to

654
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: be a ninety minute live show. We hope to make

655
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: you laugh, cry, all on your feet, fill all the emotions.

656
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: It's gonna be great. I mean just you know, just

657
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: like if you go watch certain Deslay or any of

658
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: those shows and you get to, you know, see some

659
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: amazing things, but you also laugh and you also get

660
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: this journey and this storytelling. We just have some of

661
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: the best athletes in the country coming together to entertain

662
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 1: you through amazing cheerleading. It's gonna be epic. It's gonna

663
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: be throughly exciting. Monica al Dama, you are royalty, the

664
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: Queen of cheer Thank you so much for being here.

665
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: After a break why MLB teams are using the shift

666
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: more than ever, and whether Baseball is pending push to

667
00:37:53,280 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: limit it is a good idea. We offered a procedural

668
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: agreement that would allow for the timely implementation of sorely

669
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: needed rules like the pitch timer and the elimination of

670
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: shifts to improve the entertainment value of the game on

671
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: the field. Are we really going to ban the shift?

672
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to see a guy look at a

673
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: piece of paper and then walk three paces to the

674
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: right and then it's hit right at them. I'm not

675
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: playing a video game. In March of this year, MLB

676
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: Commissioner Rob Manfred said baseball would undergo some rules changes,

677
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: perhaps most notably an effort to cut down on the shift.

678
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: SI stafford Emma Bocholari joins me to discuss why baseball

679
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: is taking this step, how to execute it, and whether

680
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: it's even a good idea. All right, and so, obviously

681
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 1: the shift has been part of baseball forever, but let's

682
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: start with what it is and why it works. Basically,

683
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: it's just shifting your fielders around the baseball yield in

684
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: a way that you're making it less likely for your

685
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: opponent to get a hit the ball tracking data that

686
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: you have from stack cast. That's not just saying like, oh,

687
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: this hitter has a tendency to pull the ball or

688
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: to go to the opposite field. Those are the sort

689
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: of tendencies you might have always known about it. It's

690
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: letting you know exactly, like, here's where this guy hits

691
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: the ball. Here is where he is most likely to

692
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: make contact. Here is how he responds to this type

693
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: of pitch. Here's how he responds in this count. You

694
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: have such specific data on the hitter's tendencies on when

695
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: he's more or less likely to produce a certain kind

696
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: of contact or a certain kind of hit, and that

697
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: allows you to know exactly where you want to position

698
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: through fielders. It's not just like, oh, we're gonna shade

699
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: the second basement over a little bit because that seems

700
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: like it might be the thing to do. It's like, no,

701
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: there's an x percent chance that he's going to hit

702
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: it exactly to the spot on the field. And with

703
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: the defensive data that we have on our own team,

704
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: combining that with this offensive data on your opponent, you

705
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: can pretty much exactly put toge there a game plan

706
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: to set up your fielders in a way that you're

707
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: going to take away those hits. Right, You're trying to

708
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: target where you think the batter is most likely to

709
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: hit the ball. But the interesting part here, and what

710
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: you wrote about for s I dot Com, is that

711
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: the use of the shift has really skyrocketed over the

712
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: last decade. Why is that The biggest thing is just data, Like,

713
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: as you said, this has been around for a while,

714
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: but it's based on looking at where your opponent is

715
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: most likely to hit the ball. You might have had

716
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: an idea of what that was twenty years ago, fifty

717
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: years ago. Ted Williams famously had ships used against him,

718
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: so seventy years ago. But now you have specific data

719
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: that lets you know. You have stack casts, you have

720
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: all this ball tracking data, the sort of things that

721
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: you see used on broadcasts, and that allows you to

722
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: know with pretty incredible precision what your opponent's tendencies are

723
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: and how to best position your fielders to make it

724
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: unlikely for them to get a hit. Robinson can only

725
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: leads off, Matty drops out a butt. It's a perfect

726
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: want and I'll have himself a base. There's your shift buster.

727
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 1: So as that's really become a bigger part of the

728
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: game over the last seven years is how long we've

729
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: had stockcast and had that data. This is one really

730
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: big way that teams have been harnessing it and responding. Right.

731
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: The proponerance of data here is obviously fueling it. And

732
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: MLB wants to regulate the shift next season, which we

733
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: want to get into and a little bit. But in

734
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 1: the interim, MLB teams are going out in this blaze

735
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: of shifting glory. Emma. I know it's still early in

736
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: the season, but teams are shifting more than ever before. Right, Yeah,

737
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: they're shifting on thirty seven percent of plate appearances, even

738
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: more against left handed hitters, which is really really high.

739
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: So thirty seven to put that in perspective, that's a

740
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: massive bump over last season. Right. How significant is that

741
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: because over the even just the last four years, the

742
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: shift rate has doubled. Yeah, so we've seen it over

743
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: for the last couple of seasons now, but if you're

744
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: looking at over the last three four years, it's as

745
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: you said, it's it's more than doubled, which is pretty profound.

746
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: That has a something that you can pick up just

747
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: watching a few games a week, seeing how much more

748
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: common it is, and that it hasn't sat well with

749
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: people who are looking at baseball and want to see

750
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: more action. Everybody's position and bunched up exactly where you

751
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,959
Speaker 1: know somebody's going to hit it. And now I'm hearing

752
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: people saying, well, they should just bunk their way on.

753
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: And I'm not taking my eleven year old and thirteen

754
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: year old kid to Dodger Stadium to watch Max Munsey

755
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: bunt his way on. So the game of baseball and

756
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: math have obviously reached this critical point, at least in

757
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: terms of the shift, and so baseball is trying to

758
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: get rid of it. And in our show meeting, when

759
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: I brought this topic up, I expected that most of

760
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,479
Speaker 1: our producers would say, yeah, I get rid of the shift.

761
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: I hate it. Our team, our production team universally loves

762
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: the shift, which kind of blew me away. What do

763
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 1: you say about the shift? I don't mind the shift.

764
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: I don't don't know if i'd say that I love it.

765
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes it is an wing when you see what feels

766
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: like it should be a really well struck ball, and

767
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: for ninety years, you think that would have just gone

768
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: through the gap and been a hit, no question, And

769
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: now it's not like sometimes that's annoying, But for the

770
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: most part, I like the idea that it's a type

771
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: of strategy that teams have access to and hitters also

772
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: have access to, knowing like maybe you bunt, maybe you

773
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: just try to hit it over the shift ship nobody there,

774
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: why not make too. It'll be the shortest rubble of

775
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: new schooler or standing up onbelievable, like there are options

776
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: at your disposal here. It's not like it's automatically removing

777
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: any potential to get on base. Understand where they're legislating

778
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: it away most likely, but I will kind of miss it,

779
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: and I just like the idea of being a part

780
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: of the basic strategy that teams have, you know, in

781
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: their arsenal to try both too to stop guys from

782
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: getting on base, and something that hitters also have to overcome.

783
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: I think it can be kind of fun and interesting

784
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 1: and I'll miss it a little. I'm curious what players

785
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: and managers think about it, because yes, the shift has

786
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: been around forever, but as we've outlined here, it's really

787
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: ramped up over the last you know, seven to ten years.

788
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: Are players and managers ready for this to go away

789
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: or do they also still like it. I think you

790
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: have kind of a mixed bag. I mean, I think

791
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: there are a lot of pitchers who love playing in

792
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: front of the shift because it's making them look better

793
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: when you have your defense behind you taking away those hits.

794
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: A lot of hitters, particularly RDIs, who don't get shifted

795
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: on very much. They don't care so much. Then you

796
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: have lefties who are seeing it used against them all

797
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: the time. I mean, you have some hitters prototypical like

798
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: lefty power hitter that see it like almost literally every

799
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: single app at they have. For some of them, that's

800
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: something they've gotten used to and they've been able to

801
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: thrive despite it. For some of them, it is kind

802
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: of annoying and they're ready to see it go now Baseball,

803
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: because it's gotten to this point where it's being used,

804
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: as you said, especially against left handed power hitters all

805
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: the time. Baseball is trying to get rid it realist

806
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 1: legislated and restricted a little bit. But the devil emma,

807
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: as always is in the details. Explain to people why

808
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: getting rid of it is so complicated. The most basic

809
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: thing here is that baseball positions aren't legislated at all.

810
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: Like if you look in the baseball rule book. Obviously

811
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: they have names, but there's nothing in the official baseball

812
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: rules about where a shortstop has to stand or what

813
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: makes you a third baseman. It's just you need to

814
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: have fielders on the field, and that's it, other than

815
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: the picture and the catcher. Obviously, the rest of that

816
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: is all left entirely up to a team's discretion, and

817
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: so there's never been an attempt to define a position

818
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: to legislate where fielders can stand. So this is all

819
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: totally uncharted territory for Major League Baseball, and they came

820
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: to an agreement this winter with the Players Association to

821
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: say that the league could regulate the shift for so

822
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: we know that they're going to try to regulate it

823
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: in some fashion, but or a couple different ways to

824
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: do that because the structure of Baseball's rules doesn't really

825
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: have anything in there right now that makes for an

826
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: easy adaptation. If it said a shortstop is X, y Z,

827
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: it'd be easier to say this is what your shortstop

828
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: has to do, But the rule book doesn't really have

829
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: that language, and so it's going to have to come

830
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: up with something totally new. Yeah, I love this about baseball,

831
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: where baseball identifies what it thinks is a problem and

832
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: says we're gonna fix it next year, and then people

833
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: like you go, how are you going to do it?

834
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: And they go, don't ask us about that right now.

835
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: We're not quite sure. We're some of the suggestions that

836
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: people have floated two fielders on each side of second

837
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: base or four players on the infield dirt. Is it

838
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: as simple as that? Would you pick one of those?

839
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: I think the most straightforward one is just having two

840
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: players on each side of second base. This has been

841
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: really focused on in field shifts because we see them

842
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: the most teams are also doing a lot more outfield

843
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 1: shifting and doing a lot more with four outfielders, which

844
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: can actually be more effective then the infield shift in

845
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: some cases. And so if you just say two fielders

846
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: on each side of second base, well, if you position

847
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: your four outfielders such that you do have two guys

848
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: on each side of second that's still opening up room

849
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: for that um. But then if you've legislate it by

850
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: saying it's just four guys on the infield dirt, well,

851
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: then you can still do a basic infield shift of

852
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: moving over your second baseman to have three guys on

853
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: one side of the endfield, so it's not like an

854
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: insurmountable problem. You can also do a definition that combines

855
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: those two options, or you could do something else entirely.

856
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 1: But it is just a question baseball has never had

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00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: to answer before, and I'm curious to see how they

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00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: do it with eight months to figure it out. So

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00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: they've got eight months, Emma. And bottom line, is this

860
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: good for baseball? Because you said you kind of like

861
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: to shift, but it is the game better off limiting it?

862
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: I think there is a fairly strong case for what

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00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: you get from limiting it. I think baseball has bigger

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00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: existential questions about the type of offense it's encouraging the

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00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: pace of play. Like when you're talking about baseball as

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00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: an aesthetic entertainment product, there are a lot of factors

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00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: that go into that, and this is just one very

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00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 1: small piece of it. So I don't think it solves

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00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: any of these bigger problems that baseball has, but I

870
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: do think it addresses part of it. I think if

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00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: it only does a little bit too nudge baseball back

872
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: to an environment where you're seeing more hits, you're seeing

873
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: more offense, I think that's a good thing. And I

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00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: don't think it will have a profound effect. But if

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00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: it has a slight effect, that's something and it makes

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00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: sense for them to at least look into it. A

877
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: little impact could go a long way. This was a

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00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: wonderful conversation. Read her on SI dot com. No shift

879
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: could stop her. She always hits them where they ain't

880
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: m A Bachelari. Thanks for this. Sports Illustrated Weekly is

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00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: a production of Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For

882
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart

883
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

884
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: And for more of Sports illust At its best stories

885
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: and podcasts, visit SI dot com. This episode of Sports

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00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: Illustrated Weekly was produced by Cooper McKim, Jessica Armoski, and

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00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: Isaac Lee, who was also our sound engineer. Our senior

888
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: producer is Dan Bloom. Our executive producers are Scott Brody

889
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by Nolan Schneider.

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00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and if you've stuck around this long,

891
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: we leave you with this. Did you go to Duke? Yeah? Uh?

892
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: If I had known that ahead of time, this is

893
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: like when I found out Cooper was a Giants fan.