WEBVTT - Through Each Other’s Eyes

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<v Speaker 1>I'm at International Rivals at the Miami International Airport and

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<v Speaker 1>I just spoke to a large family.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Tasha Sandoval, one of our producers who you

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<v Speaker 2>have heard throughout the series. Despite spring, during nor Be

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<v Speaker 2>putting trip in Miami, there was still one more thing

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<v Speaker 2>Tasha wanted to witness. It's something that happens often at

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<v Speaker 2>the Miami International Airport. That is the reunification of Cuban families.

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<v Speaker 2>Tasha spotted a family who seemed like they were about

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<v Speaker 2>to be reunited with someone. Yes, the family had welcome

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<v Speaker 2>balloons in their hands with smiley faces and the American flag.

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<v Speaker 2>Balloons may seem pretty routine, but they are also a

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<v Speaker 2>powerful symbol for Cubans, something you can access when you

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<v Speaker 2>leave the island. As a kid in Cuba, I remember

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<v Speaker 2>with the created or school parties with inflated condoms, as

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<v Speaker 2>balloons were impossible to get on the island. Back at

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<v Speaker 2>the Miami Airport, Tasha was surrounded by a Cuban family

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<v Speaker 2>of ten or eleven people prima mio, cousins, nephews, nieces.

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<v Speaker 2>They waited for the arrival of two family members who

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<v Speaker 2>had been living in Cuba. One of them named Carlitos.

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<v Speaker 3>Best a person commands.

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<v Speaker 2>I and Ida commersame familia. Hasha waited with the family

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<v Speaker 2>for quite a while Lodo, but then finally Carlitos arrived.

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<v Speaker 2>There were lots of happy tears, hags and kisses.

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<v Speaker 3>Even Tasha cried.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an emotional moment, something that most Cuban families dream of,

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<v Speaker 2>the chance to be reunited, to share a meal together,

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<v Speaker 2>as you know, for eight years. It was something my

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<v Speaker 2>father and I dreamt of, And of course this is

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<v Speaker 2>central to Alian's story. It is something he's on that

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<v Speaker 2>long for. It can be tempting to think that a

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<v Speaker 2>story of family separation ends at the reunion, but no

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<v Speaker 2>reunions can be well complicated. That's at the heart of

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<v Speaker 2>Alan's story, the real complexity families faced when they are

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<v Speaker 2>forced apart. You see, people could see themselves in Alan's

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<v Speaker 2>story because many of us lived a version of that separation.

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<v Speaker 2>So for today's finals episode or final episode this season,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to share a really pointed separation and reunion

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<v Speaker 2>story from a Cuban America. Can you hear from a

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<v Speaker 2>lot this season?

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<v Speaker 1>There's a way to tell history in which there are

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<v Speaker 1>categories and everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>Fits in a category.

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<v Speaker 1>But real life isn't like that, and real experience, the

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<v Speaker 1>experience of human beings, always pushes against those boundaries.

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<v Speaker 2>Ala Ferrer, historian and an author of the Pulitzer Prize

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<v Speaker 2>winning book Cuba and American History. You might remember that

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<v Speaker 2>her mother was living in Miami at the time of

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<v Speaker 2>the Liian case, and that she took her sewing scissors

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<v Speaker 2>to a newspaper photo of danet Reno after the raid

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<v Speaker 2>that took Elean out of Miami. What you may not

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<v Speaker 2>know is that Anna and her family also experience a

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<v Speaker 2>god branching separation. It's one she wrote about in an

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<v Speaker 2>article for The New Yorker in twenty twenty one titled

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<v Speaker 2>My Brother's Keeper. And she told me her story too,

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<v Speaker 2>while we reflected on the meaning of a Liant's story.

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<v Speaker 2>I am Pennileetera meets and this is Chess Peace. The

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<v Speaker 2>Lian Gonzalez Story a production of Ututa Studios in partnership

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<v Speaker 2>with Iheartsmichael Duda Podcast Network.

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<v Speaker 1>I was born in Cuba and I left when I

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<v Speaker 1>was ten months old. I grew up in a Cuban community,

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<v Speaker 1>so Cuba was always a part of my life, but

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't really know anything about it. I did a

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<v Speaker 1>master's and specialized in Cuba, and then I started a

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<v Speaker 1>PhD program in nineteen eighty nine, and I I had

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<v Speaker 1>to go back. So I went back for the first

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<v Speaker 1>time in nineteen ninety and then after that I went

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much every year.

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<v Speaker 3>So right now, fast forward.

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<v Speaker 2>You win the Pulitzer two years ago with a book

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<v Speaker 2>about Cuba, A General History about Cuba. Tell us about that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd been studying Cuban history for over thirty years at

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<v Speaker 1>that point, and I felt like I never saw my

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<v Speaker 1>family reflected in anything I read. So I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>write a book in which people would see themselves reflected.

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<v Speaker 1>The way I approach history is you know a history

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<v Speaker 1>that is peopled.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I will say as a fellow Cuban. When I

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<v Speaker 2>read their book, I felt that, for the first time

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<v Speaker 2>somebody was explaining the country to me in a way

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<v Speaker 2>that was not this propaganda ish style. Right. So, in

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<v Speaker 2>your work as a historian, how prevalent is this family

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<v Speaker 2>separation in Cuba, And if you think that also partly

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<v Speaker 2>explains this passion around the case of Ilian that happened

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<v Speaker 2>in that moment but persists even twenty five years later.

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<v Speaker 1>At the heart of it all is still this painful

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<v Speaker 1>family separation, but the people involved couldn't even experience it

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<v Speaker 1>that way because the story was taken over by these greater,

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<v Speaker 1>more impersonal forces that tried to use it for political gain.

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<v Speaker 1>So the family separation was a part of the story

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<v Speaker 1>of the Cuban Revolution from the very beginning.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I lived for many years in Mexico, and

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<v Speaker 2>in Mexico, like in other Latin American countries, you have

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<v Speaker 2>also many cases of family separation. But the possibility of

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<v Speaker 2>going back is real. You know, people send money and

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<v Speaker 2>they dream about retiring back home. But in Cuba, when

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<v Speaker 2>you leave, you leave. Yeah, there is no coming back.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think you're right. Once people leave, they leave,

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<v Speaker 2>they have to make a life. But I think a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people, especially when they're older, do question it

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<v Speaker 2>and do wonder about it. You think, yeah, my father

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<v Speaker 2>did I know. I mean, that's one man.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how typical that was, but yeah, he

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<v Speaker 1>had a sense, like all his life that he'd given

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<v Speaker 1>something up, and then as he got older and got

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<v Speaker 1>closer to death, you know, he wanted to go back.

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<v Speaker 1>He used to write letters all the time to the

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<v Speaker 1>Cuban government and to the US government asking for permission

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<v Speaker 1>to go back.

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<v Speaker 2>And also because there was this moment at the beginning

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<v Speaker 2>of the cast regime on the Cuban Revolution, when people

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<v Speaker 2>were thinking that we're leaving and then we are returning.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's what my parents thought in the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>So they left in sixty two, my father and my

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<v Speaker 1>mother and me and sixty three, and they thought they

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<v Speaker 1>would be back.

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<v Speaker 3>It soon became clear that they wouldn't.

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<v Speaker 1>My father left because he was a stenographer in the army.

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<v Speaker 1>He was very anti communist, and when Fidel Castro came

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<v Speaker 1>to power dissolve the army, he was no longer in

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<v Speaker 1>the army. He sold sandals in a park at Patrique

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<v Speaker 1>de la near the Capitolio, and when the Bay of

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<v Speaker 1>Pigs happened in April nineteen sixty one, he was arrested

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<v Speaker 1>because before the actual invasion, Fidel Castro deputized people the

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<v Speaker 1>populace to arrest people who they thought might support an

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<v Speaker 1>invasion should they come, and a neighbor had him arrested,

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<v Speaker 1>and after that he decided to leave. He thought, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they arrested me this time. They let me go, but

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what'll happen, I want to leave, and

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<v Speaker 1>then my mother left because he left, and when he left,

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<v Speaker 1>she was pregnant with me. Because it's what I was

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<v Speaker 1>saying before about how there's categories and you expect people

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<v Speaker 1>to act according to these categories.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's why I always wondered why they.

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<v Speaker 1>Left, because I didn't have property to leave, And I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's what shape me as a historian in the

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<v Speaker 1>sense that, like real experience doesn't fit easy histories. She

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<v Speaker 1>always knew or thought that after he left, he would

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<v Speaker 1>do the paperwork to bring us to the US with him.

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<v Speaker 1>The complicated thing is that she had another son from

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<v Speaker 1>her first marriage, my brother Ipolito or Poli, who was

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<v Speaker 1>nine years older than I was, and his father, who

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<v Speaker 1>was a member of the Revolutionary police, would not let

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<v Speaker 1>him leave. My mother left, always thinking that Poli's father,

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<v Speaker 1>once he saw that she had left, would change his

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<v Speaker 1>mind and let his son leave, but that just never happen.

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<v Speaker 3>Left him or she left him.

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<v Speaker 1>We left him in the same house where we lived,

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<v Speaker 1>so with my grandmother and with my aunt who has

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<v Speaker 1>my same name, Ada, who we called the Anina, and

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<v Speaker 1>they raised him and my mother wrote letters to him

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<v Speaker 1>all the time. And sent Baguetes care packages. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he still felt abandoned. So years, past, decades passed, he

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<v Speaker 1>grew into a young man, got into all kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>trouble in Cuba. Before Marielle, the US and Cuban governments

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<v Speaker 1>agreed to let Cuban exiles back to Cuba for the

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<v Speaker 1>first time to visit family. Cuban stormed the Peruvian embassy

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<v Speaker 1>and asked for asylum, and then Fidel Castro said that

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<v Speaker 1>relatives in Miami could come pick up their family in Cuba.

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<v Speaker 1>So my mother went for a week and that was

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<v Speaker 1>the first time they'd seen each other since he left.

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<v Speaker 1>We left in sixty three, and this was nineteen seventy nine,

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<v Speaker 1>and my mother was in the process of bringing him

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<v Speaker 1>to the US, so she had applied for the visa.

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<v Speaker 1>The visa was approved for family reunification, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's all slow and slow, and they were waiting, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the Mariel boat lift happened, and so he came

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<v Speaker 1>to the US in nineteen eighty, so seventeen years after

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<v Speaker 1>we left.

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<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't a good reunion. I mean, my mother

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<v Speaker 3>was ecstatic.

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<v Speaker 1>There's pictures of her when he first came back and

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<v Speaker 1>her smile is like this big. But he never adjusted

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<v Speaker 1>and he got into all kinds of trouble here, worse

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<v Speaker 1>trouble than in Cuba.

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<v Speaker 3>So it was hard.

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<v Speaker 2>But something that you wrote is that you felt at

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<v Speaker 2>some point guilty even Yeah, but you were a baby.

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<v Speaker 3>I was a baby.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 1>I know it doesn't really make any intellectual sense, but

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<v Speaker 1>I do feel like in some sense, my mother took

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<v Speaker 1>me and left him. So there was always this comparison, right,

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<v Speaker 1>especially as I got older, that I had been.

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<v Speaker 3>The lucky one.

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<v Speaker 1>My mother was never missing for me, but she was

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<v Speaker 1>for him.

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<v Speaker 2>So when Elian's case happens, is this case also resonating

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<v Speaker 2>in you and your mom because of your own family history.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Absolutely, I mean he even he doesn't quite look

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<v Speaker 1>like Bolly, but there was something about the cut of

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<v Speaker 1>his hair, the close cropped hair, the big eyes, even

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<v Speaker 1>the lips. Bully was darker, his face was fuller. But

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<v Speaker 1>even just you know the pictures that I Eleanne reminded

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<v Speaker 1>me of him. Elean and my brother have the same birthday,

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<v Speaker 1>December sixth. There was the question of a struggle between

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<v Speaker 1>a father. Lean's father wanting to keep him in Cuba,

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<v Speaker 1>which is what Bullie's father did. So I think for

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<v Speaker 1>my mother in particular, wanting Lean to stay was a

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<v Speaker 1>way of fighting that battle with her ex husband all

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<v Speaker 1>over and the idea that if Bully had been able

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<v Speaker 1>to come when he was a boy with her, history

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<v Speaker 1>would have turned out really differently.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think for her that's why she was.

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<v Speaker 1>So emotional about it and why it.

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<v Speaker 3>Hurt her so deeply. Right, the father.

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<v Speaker 1>Should not keep the boy in Cuba, the boy should

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<v Speaker 1>come as a boy to the us. That had happened

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<v Speaker 1>with BALI would have been a different person and we

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<v Speaker 1>would have been a different family.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, your brother finally came to be with you only

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<v Speaker 2>in the early eighties. But as you have said, family

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<v Speaker 2>separation was part of the Cuban Revolution from the very beginning.

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<v Speaker 2>And sometimes I hear questions from people asking, well, couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>family stay in communication even if they were separated, But aha,

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<v Speaker 2>we know how complicated that really is.

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<v Speaker 1>I know someone in Cuba who believed very deeply in

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<v Speaker 1>the revolution.

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<v Speaker 3>Her family was very comfortable.

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<v Speaker 1>They decided to leave, and she said I'm not leaving,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a part of this now, and she stayed. She

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<v Speaker 1>was sixteen, stayed by herself, and she did not speak

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<v Speaker 1>to her family until the Special period, until the early nineties.

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<v Speaker 1>It was the physical separation, but it was even that

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<v Speaker 1>people were encouraged to not write to family, to not

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<v Speaker 1>keep those connections right. If people wanted to advance in

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<v Speaker 1>school or their careers or the government, they could not

0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.160
<v Speaker 1>maintain relations with their family abroad. So there was the

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<v Speaker 1>physical separation and then a forced emotional separation. All the

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<v Speaker 1>people who've left Cuba over the last sixty some years,

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<v Speaker 1>most of them have not left in a full family unit.

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<v Speaker 1>In many cases they reunified, but not everyone reunifies, and

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.680
<v Speaker 1>so there's a separation and pain and loss everywhere. And

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 1>I do think that's why many human families have a

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 1>story like that, which is why Alan's story resonated so deeply.

0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.480
<v Speaker 2>So it's a story that it's about Elian, but it's

0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 2>also a story that it's about all of us. All

0:16:59.360 --> 0:16:59.640
<v Speaker 2>of us.

0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:07.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah. When I wrote Cuban American History, part of

0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.879
<v Speaker 1>what I wanted to do was to allow Americans to

0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.520
<v Speaker 1>see their own country from the outside end, to use

0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Cuba as a way for Americans to question what they

0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 1>thought they knew about the US. And I feel like

0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.200
<v Speaker 1>I also wrote it for Cubans, and I think part

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 1>of what I wanted to do was to get Cubans

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.679
<v Speaker 1>to see their own history like through the eyes of

0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 1>each other, to not just assume these ideological straight jackets

0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.159
<v Speaker 1>that people have been forced into, because most people know

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.320
<v Speaker 1>that those straight jackets are completely ridiculous and insufficient. So

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.119
<v Speaker 1>just to kind of connect with each other on a

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:53.920
<v Speaker 1>more human level and to just set aside these ideological constraints.

0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>So is Eliane then a symbol of you know, more

0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 2>than sixty years of Guven history.

0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:10.680
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and no.

0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean he's a symbol in terms of reminding us

0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:22.439
<v Speaker 1>about the centrality of the family in this history and

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.199
<v Speaker 1>the centrality of family separation. So I think that's what

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:30.879
<v Speaker 1>makes him a symbol. But he himself, no, I just

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.480
<v Speaker 1>think we don't know enough because he's this boy who

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 1>was only ever allowed to be a symbol, but he

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.359
<v Speaker 1>wasn't allowed to escape that.

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 3>He remains a symbol.

0:18:49.520 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Thank you to Ada Ferrer, Cuban American historian, twenty five

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 2>years after he was rescued at sea. Elian Gonzalez indeed

0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 2>remains a symbol for US Cubans, no matter if you

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.280
<v Speaker 2>are in Miami or Cuba. His story shows the pain

0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and possible healing that comes from family separation. Elian's case

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.600
<v Speaker 2>also shows that history is not just political changes, but

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 2>history is about how ordinary people experience those changes, suffering

0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 2>or benefiting from them. Leanne may be seen as a symbol,

0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:50.240
<v Speaker 2>but he himself is not. He is a real person,

0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:59.400
<v Speaker 2>a father, son, friend, living a very human life. As

0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:03.159
<v Speaker 2>adadive her book, I have worked on this podcast to

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.400
<v Speaker 2>get Cubans to see their own history through each other size.

0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.119
<v Speaker 2>This is why I'm not just telling what happened to

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Elian and his father, but also what happened to my family.

0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.119
<v Speaker 2>To understand the passion around Elian's case on both sides

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 2>of the Florida Straits, you must understand our wound of

0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:30.120
<v Speaker 2>family separation. I must say it was easier to investigate

0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:35.320
<v Speaker 2>millionaires evading taxes for the Panama Papers or corrupt politicians

0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 2>taking bribes from the drug cartels than asking my father

0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.399
<v Speaker 2>about the time he spent separated from me, or asking

0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:47.199
<v Speaker 2>myself what that separation mentioned in my life. Reporting this

0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 2>story gave me a perspective I never experienced before. It

0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 2>made me feel borned up all in front of the

0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.399
<v Speaker 2>story I was telling in the beginning, I was not

0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.640
<v Speaker 2>expecting to reveal how deep the wound of family separation

0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.679
<v Speaker 2>is in me, how healing it is to talk about it. Now,

0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.359
<v Speaker 2>I know that I supposing my wound, could also help

0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.959
<v Speaker 2>others heal their own. I see my history through the

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 2>eyes of others like me, others who had said goodbye

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.040
<v Speaker 2>to a loved one without knowing when they will hug

0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:28.480
<v Speaker 2>that person again. And now I see my fellow Cubans differently,

0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.040
<v Speaker 2>understanding better what we share. I feel more part of

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:40.639
<v Speaker 2>my community, Unaguanamas, in a way I did not feel before.

0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Jess Peace The Lean Gonzalez Story is a production of

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Utua Studios in partnership with Iheartsmichael Pura Podcast Network. This

0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.080
<v Speaker 2>show is written and reported by me Pennilei ra Medz

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:28.119
<v Speaker 2>with Maria Garcia, Nicole Rothwell, and Tasha Sandoval. Our editor

0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 2>is Maria Garcia, additional editing by Marlon bishop Or. Senior

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 2>producer is Nicole Rodwell. Our associate producers are Tasha Sandovallei

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:43.919
<v Speaker 2>and Elisabeth Loental Torres, and our intern is Evelin Fajardo Alvarez.

0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Our senior production manager is Jessica Elis, with production supports

0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 2>from Nancy Trojillo and Francis Poon, mixing by Stephanie Levo,

0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Julia Caruso and j J. Carubin, scoring and musical creation

0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:03.320
<v Speaker 2>by Jacob Rossati and Stephani Levo and credits music from.

0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 3>Los Acellos Or.

0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.879
<v Speaker 2>Executive producers are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Uturo Media

0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:14.840
<v Speaker 2>was founded by Maria Nohosa. For more podcasts, listen to

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.720
<v Speaker 2>the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to

0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 2>your favorite shows. I am Pennileira Millez. Thank you for

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:29.879
<v Speaker 2>listening to this season of Chess. Peacestoria, Yesta Tempora, Chess

0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Peace