1
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm at International Rivals at the Miami International Airport and

2
00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 1: I just spoke to a large family.

3
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 2: This is Tasha Sandoval, one of our producers who you

4
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,839
Speaker 2: have heard throughout the series. Despite spring, during nor Be

5
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 2: putting trip in Miami, there was still one more thing

6
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 2: Tasha wanted to witness. It's something that happens often at

7
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 2: the Miami International Airport. That is the reunification of Cuban families.

8
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 2: Tasha spotted a family who seemed like they were about

9
00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:12,959
Speaker 2: to be reunited with someone. Yes, the family had welcome

10
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,479
Speaker 2: balloons in their hands with smiley faces and the American flag.

11
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,880
Speaker 2: Balloons may seem pretty routine, but they are also a

12
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 2: powerful symbol for Cubans, something you can access when you

13
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:35,160
Speaker 2: leave the island. As a kid in Cuba, I remember

14
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,520
Speaker 2: with the created or school parties with inflated condoms, as

15
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:45,120
Speaker 2: balloons were impossible to get on the island. Back at

16
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 2: the Miami Airport, Tasha was surrounded by a Cuban family

17
00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:56,760
Speaker 2: of ten or eleven people prima mio, cousins, nephews, nieces.

18
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 2: They waited for the arrival of two family members who

19
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,040
Speaker 2: had been living in Cuba. One of them named Carlitos.

20
00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 3: Best a person commands.

21
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:18,240
Speaker 2: I and Ida commersame familia. Hasha waited with the family

22
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 2: for quite a while Lodo, but then finally Carlitos arrived.

23
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 2: There were lots of happy tears, hags and kisses.

24
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,359
Speaker 3: Even Tasha cried.

25
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 2: It's an emotional moment, something that most Cuban families dream of,

26
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 2: the chance to be reunited, to share a meal together,

27
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,760
Speaker 2: as you know, for eight years. It was something my

28
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 2: father and I dreamt of, And of course this is

29
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,239
Speaker 2: central to Alian's story. It is something he's on that

30
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 2: long for. It can be tempting to think that a

31
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,839
Speaker 2: story of family separation ends at the reunion, but no

32
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,800
Speaker 2: reunions can be well complicated. That's at the heart of

33
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 2: Alan's story, the real complexity families faced when they are

34
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:45,280
Speaker 2: forced apart. You see, people could see themselves in Alan's

35
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 2: story because many of us lived a version of that separation.

36
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,480
Speaker 2: So for today's finals episode or final episode this season,

37
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 2: we're going to share a really pointed separation and reunion

38
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 2: story from a Cuban America. Can you hear from a

39
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 2: lot this season?

40
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,200
Speaker 1: There's a way to tell history in which there are

41
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: categories and everyone.

42
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 3: Fits in a category.

43
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: But real life isn't like that, and real experience, the

44
00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,000
Speaker 1: experience of human beings, always pushes against those boundaries.

45
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 2: Ala Ferrer, historian and an author of the Pulitzer Prize

46
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 2: winning book Cuba and American History. You might remember that

47
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,599
Speaker 2: her mother was living in Miami at the time of

48
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,920
Speaker 2: the Liian case, and that she took her sewing scissors

49
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,680
Speaker 2: to a newspaper photo of danet Reno after the raid

50
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,680
Speaker 2: that took Elean out of Miami. What you may not

51
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 2: know is that Anna and her family also experience a

52
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 2: god branching separation. It's one she wrote about in an

53
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,359
Speaker 2: article for The New Yorker in twenty twenty one titled

54
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 2: My Brother's Keeper. And she told me her story too,

55
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,040
Speaker 2: while we reflected on the meaning of a Liant's story.

56
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,640
Speaker 2: I am Pennileetera meets and this is Chess Peace. The

57
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,479
Speaker 2: Lian Gonzalez Story a production of Ututa Studios in partnership

58
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 2: with Iheartsmichael Duda Podcast Network.

59
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 1: I was born in Cuba and I left when I

60
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: was ten months old. I grew up in a Cuban community,

61
00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: so Cuba was always a part of my life, but

62
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,120
Speaker 1: I didn't really know anything about it. I did a

63
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,479
Speaker 1: master's and specialized in Cuba, and then I started a

64
00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,400
Speaker 1: PhD program in nineteen eighty nine, and I I had

65
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,279
Speaker 1: to go back. So I went back for the first

66
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,479
Speaker 1: time in nineteen ninety and then after that I went

67
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:06,880
Speaker 1: pretty much every year.

68
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,160
Speaker 3: So right now, fast forward.

69
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,000
Speaker 2: You win the Pulitzer two years ago with a book

70
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,159
Speaker 2: about Cuba, A General History about Cuba. Tell us about that.

71
00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,280
Speaker 1: I'd been studying Cuban history for over thirty years at

72
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,599
Speaker 1: that point, and I felt like I never saw my

73
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 1: family reflected in anything I read. So I wanted to

74
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 1: write a book in which people would see themselves reflected.

75
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 1: The way I approach history is you know a history

76
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 1: that is peopled.

77
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,120
Speaker 2: Well, I will say as a fellow Cuban. When I

78
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 2: read their book, I felt that, for the first time

79
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 2: somebody was explaining the country to me in a way

80
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:52,200
Speaker 2: that was not this propaganda ish style. Right. So, in

81
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 2: your work as a historian, how prevalent is this family

82
00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 2: separation in Cuba, And if you think that also partly

83
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 2: explains this passion around the case of Ilian that happened

84
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,520
Speaker 2: in that moment but persists even twenty five years later.

85
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 1: At the heart of it all is still this painful

86
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:18,200
Speaker 1: family separation, but the people involved couldn't even experience it

87
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 1: that way because the story was taken over by these greater,

88
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,320
Speaker 1: more impersonal forces that tried to use it for political gain.

89
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,679
Speaker 1: So the family separation was a part of the story

90
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,600
Speaker 1: of the Cuban Revolution from the very beginning.

91
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 2: You know, I lived for many years in Mexico, and

92
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 2: in Mexico, like in other Latin American countries, you have

93
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 2: also many cases of family separation. But the possibility of

94
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 2: going back is real. You know, people send money and

95
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 2: they dream about retiring back home. But in Cuba, when

96
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 2: you leave, you leave. Yeah, there is no coming back.

97
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're right. Once people leave, they leave,

98
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,800
Speaker 2: they have to make a life. But I think a

99
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,760
Speaker 2: lot of people, especially when they're older, do question it

100
00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,119
Speaker 2: and do wonder about it. You think, yeah, my father

101
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:10,760
Speaker 2: did I know. I mean, that's one man.

102
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how typical that was, but yeah, he

103
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: had a sense, like all his life that he'd given

104
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 1: something up, and then as he got older and got

105
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: closer to death, you know, he wanted to go back.

106
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: He used to write letters all the time to the

107
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,400
Speaker 1: Cuban government and to the US government asking for permission

108
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:28,960
Speaker 1: to go back.

109
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 2: And also because there was this moment at the beginning

110
00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 2: of the cast regime on the Cuban Revolution, when people

111
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,960
Speaker 2: were thinking that we're leaving and then we are returning.

112
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what my parents thought in the beginning.

113
00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,960
Speaker 1: So they left in sixty two, my father and my

114
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 1: mother and me and sixty three, and they thought they

115
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 1: would be back.

116
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,319
Speaker 3: It soon became clear that they wouldn't.

117
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,880
Speaker 1: My father left because he was a stenographer in the army.

118
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 1: He was very anti communist, and when Fidel Castro came

119
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 1: to power dissolve the army, he was no longer in

120
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 1: the army. He sold sandals in a park at Patrique

121
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 1: de la near the Capitolio, and when the Bay of

122
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,560
Speaker 1: Pigs happened in April nineteen sixty one, he was arrested

123
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 1: because before the actual invasion, Fidel Castro deputized people the

124
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 1: populace to arrest people who they thought might support an

125
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,040
Speaker 1: invasion should they come, and a neighbor had him arrested,

126
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,679
Speaker 1: and after that he decided to leave. He thought, you know,

127
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 1: they arrested me this time. They let me go, but

128
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what'll happen, I want to leave, and

129
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 1: then my mother left because he left, and when he left,

130
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 1: she was pregnant with me. Because it's what I was

131
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,760
Speaker 1: saying before about how there's categories and you expect people

132
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 1: to act according to these categories.

133
00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,199
Speaker 3: And that's why I always wondered why they.

134
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,840
Speaker 1: Left, because I didn't have property to leave, And I

135
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 1: think that's what shape me as a historian in the

136
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:12,560
Speaker 1: sense that, like real experience doesn't fit easy histories. She

137
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 1: always knew or thought that after he left, he would

138
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: do the paperwork to bring us to the US with him.

139
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,839
Speaker 1: The complicated thing is that she had another son from

140
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 1: her first marriage, my brother Ipolito or Poli, who was

141
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 1: nine years older than I was, and his father, who

142
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,560
Speaker 1: was a member of the Revolutionary police, would not let

143
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 1: him leave. My mother left, always thinking that Poli's father,

144
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,840
Speaker 1: once he saw that she had left, would change his

145
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,280
Speaker 1: mind and let his son leave, but that just never happen.

146
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:01,360
Speaker 3: Left him or she left him.

147
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,079
Speaker 1: We left him in the same house where we lived,

148
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 1: so with my grandmother and with my aunt who has

149
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 1: my same name, Ada, who we called the Anina, and

150
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:17,720
Speaker 1: they raised him and my mother wrote letters to him

151
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 1: all the time. And sent Baguetes care packages. But you know,

152
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 1: he still felt abandoned. So years, past, decades passed, he

153
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 1: grew into a young man, got into all kinds of

154
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 1: trouble in Cuba. Before Marielle, the US and Cuban governments

155
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 1: agreed to let Cuban exiles back to Cuba for the

156
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,400
Speaker 1: first time to visit family. Cuban stormed the Peruvian embassy

157
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 1: and asked for asylum, and then Fidel Castro said that

158
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 1: relatives in Miami could come pick up their family in Cuba.

159
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 1: So my mother went for a week and that was

160
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 1: the first time they'd seen each other since he left.

161
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:10,439
Speaker 1: We left in sixty three, and this was nineteen seventy nine,

162
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,679
Speaker 1: and my mother was in the process of bringing him

163
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,440
Speaker 1: to the US, so she had applied for the visa.

164
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 1: The visa was approved for family reunification, but you know,

165
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 1: it's all slow and slow, and they were waiting, and

166
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 1: then the Mariel boat lift happened, and so he came

167
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 1: to the US in nineteen eighty, so seventeen years after

168
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 1: we left.

169
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 3: And it wasn't a good reunion. I mean, my mother

170
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 3: was ecstatic.

171
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 1: There's pictures of her when he first came back and

172
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,240
Speaker 1: her smile is like this big. But he never adjusted

173
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,480
Speaker 1: and he got into all kinds of trouble here, worse

174
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 1: trouble than in Cuba.

175
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 3: So it was hard.

176
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 2: But something that you wrote is that you felt at

177
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 2: some point guilty even Yeah, but you were a baby.

178
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 3: I was a baby.

179
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 2: No.

180
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,080
Speaker 1: I know it doesn't really make any intellectual sense, but

181
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,080
Speaker 1: I do feel like in some sense, my mother took

182
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 1: me and left him. So there was always this comparison, right,

183
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: especially as I got older, that I had been.

184
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,120
Speaker 3: The lucky one.

185
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 1: My mother was never missing for me, but she was

186
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 1: for him.

187
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:40,959
Speaker 2: So when Elian's case happens, is this case also resonating

188
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,840
Speaker 2: in you and your mom because of your own family history.

189
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, I mean he even he doesn't quite look

190
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,560
Speaker 1: like Bolly, but there was something about the cut of

191
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,800
Speaker 1: his hair, the close cropped hair, the big eyes, even

192
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: the lips. Bully was darker, his face was fuller. But

193
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: even just you know the pictures that I Eleanne reminded

194
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 1: me of him. Elean and my brother have the same birthday,

195
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 1: December sixth. There was the question of a struggle between

196
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 1: a father. Lean's father wanting to keep him in Cuba,

197
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 1: which is what Bullie's father did. So I think for

198
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 1: my mother in particular, wanting Lean to stay was a

199
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 1: way of fighting that battle with her ex husband all

200
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 1: over and the idea that if Bully had been able

201
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 1: to come when he was a boy with her, history

202
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 1: would have turned out really differently.

203
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 3: So I think for her that's why she was.

204
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,320
Speaker 1: So emotional about it and why it.

205
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 3: Hurt her so deeply. Right, the father.

206
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 1: Should not keep the boy in Cuba, the boy should

207
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 1: come as a boy to the us. That had happened

208
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,880
Speaker 1: with BALI would have been a different person and we

209
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,120
Speaker 1: would have been a different family.

210
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 2: Well, your brother finally came to be with you only

211
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,680
Speaker 2: in the early eighties. But as you have said, family

212
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 2: separation was part of the Cuban Revolution from the very beginning.

213
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 2: And sometimes I hear questions from people asking, well, couldn't

214
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,800
Speaker 2: family stay in communication even if they were separated, But aha,

215
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 2: we know how complicated that really is.

216
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 1: I know someone in Cuba who believed very deeply in

217
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:39,600
Speaker 1: the revolution.

218
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 3: Her family was very comfortable.

219
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 1: They decided to leave, and she said I'm not leaving,

220
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 1: I'm a part of this now, and she stayed. She

221
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 1: was sixteen, stayed by herself, and she did not speak

222
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 1: to her family until the Special period, until the early nineties.

223
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 1: It was the physical separation, but it was even that

224
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: people were encouraged to not write to family, to not

225
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 1: keep those connections right. If people wanted to advance in

226
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 1: school or their careers or the government, they could not

227
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,160
Speaker 1: maintain relations with their family abroad. So there was the

228
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 1: physical separation and then a forced emotional separation. All the

229
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 1: people who've left Cuba over the last sixty some years,

230
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 1: most of them have not left in a full family unit.

231
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 1: In many cases they reunified, but not everyone reunifies, and

232
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 1: so there's a separation and pain and loss everywhere. And

233
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 1: I do think that's why many human families have a

234
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 1: story like that, which is why Alan's story resonated so deeply.

235
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 2: So it's a story that it's about Elian, but it's

236
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,320
Speaker 2: also a story that it's about all of us. All

237
00:16:59,360 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 2: of us.

238
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. When I wrote Cuban American History, part of

239
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,879
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do was to allow Americans to

240
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 1: see their own country from the outside end, to use

241
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 1: Cuba as a way for Americans to question what they

242
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 1: thought they knew about the US. And I feel like

243
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,200
Speaker 1: I also wrote it for Cubans, and I think part

244
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,200
Speaker 1: of what I wanted to do was to get Cubans

245
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,679
Speaker 1: to see their own history like through the eyes of

246
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 1: each other, to not just assume these ideological straight jackets

247
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 1: that people have been forced into, because most people know

248
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,320
Speaker 1: that those straight jackets are completely ridiculous and insufficient. So

249
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 1: just to kind of connect with each other on a

250
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:53,920
Speaker 1: more human level and to just set aside these ideological constraints.

251
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,920
Speaker 2: So is Eliane then a symbol of you know, more

252
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 2: than sixty years of Guven history.

253
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:10,680
Speaker 3: Yes, and no.

254
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,800
Speaker 1: I mean he's a symbol in terms of reminding us

255
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 1: about the centrality of the family in this history and

256
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,199
Speaker 1: the centrality of family separation. So I think that's what

257
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 1: makes him a symbol. But he himself, no, I just

258
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 1: think we don't know enough because he's this boy who

259
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,119
Speaker 1: was only ever allowed to be a symbol, but he

260
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to escape that.

261
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 3: He remains a symbol.

262
00:18:49,520 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 2: Thank you to Ada Ferrer, Cuban American historian, twenty five

263
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 2: years after he was rescued at sea. Elian Gonzalez indeed

264
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 2: remains a symbol for US Cubans, no matter if you

265
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 2: are in Miami or Cuba. His story shows the pain

266
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 2: and possible healing that comes from family separation. Elian's case

267
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: also shows that history is not just political changes, but

268
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 2: history is about how ordinary people experience those changes, suffering

269
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 2: or benefiting from them. Leanne may be seen as a symbol,

270
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 2: but he himself is not. He is a real person,

271
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 2: a father, son, friend, living a very human life. As

272
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,159
Speaker 2: adadive her book, I have worked on this podcast to

273
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 2: get Cubans to see their own history through each other size.

274
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 2: This is why I'm not just telling what happened to

275
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 2: Elian and his father, but also what happened to my family.

276
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 2: To understand the passion around Elian's case on both sides

277
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 2: of the Florida Straits, you must understand our wound of

278
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 2: family separation. I must say it was easier to investigate

279
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 2: millionaires evading taxes for the Panama Papers or corrupt politicians

280
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 2: taking bribes from the drug cartels than asking my father

281
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 2: about the time he spent separated from me, or asking

282
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 2: myself what that separation mentioned in my life. Reporting this

283
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 2: story gave me a perspective I never experienced before. It

284
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: made me feel borned up all in front of the

285
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 2: story I was telling in the beginning, I was not

286
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 2: expecting to reveal how deep the wound of family separation

287
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 2: is in me, how healing it is to talk about it. Now,

288
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: I know that I supposing my wound, could also help

289
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,959
Speaker 2: others heal their own. I see my history through the

290
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: eyes of others like me, others who had said goodbye

291
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 2: to a loved one without knowing when they will hug

292
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 2: that person again. And now I see my fellow Cubans differently,

293
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 2: understanding better what we share. I feel more part of

294
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 2: my community, Unaguanamas, in a way I did not feel before.

295
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 2: Jess Peace The Lean Gonzalez Story is a production of

296
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 2: Utua Studios in partnership with Iheartsmichael Pura Podcast Network. This

297
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: show is written and reported by me Pennilei ra Medz

298
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 2: with Maria Garcia, Nicole Rothwell, and Tasha Sandoval. Our editor

299
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: is Maria Garcia, additional editing by Marlon bishop Or. Senior

300
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: producer is Nicole Rodwell. Our associate producers are Tasha Sandovallei

301
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 2: and Elisabeth Loental Torres, and our intern is Evelin Fajardo Alvarez.

302
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: Our senior production manager is Jessica Elis, with production supports

303
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: from Nancy Trojillo and Francis Poon, mixing by Stephanie Levo,

304
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: Julia Caruso and j J. Carubin, scoring and musical creation

305
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 2: by Jacob Rossati and Stephani Levo and credits music from.

306
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: Los Acellos Or.

307
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 2: Executive producers are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Uturo Media

308
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: was founded by Maria Nohosa. For more podcasts, listen to

309
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to

310
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: your favorite shows. I am Pennileira Millez. Thank you for

311
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 2: listening to this season of Chess. Peacestoria, Yesta Tempora, Chess

312
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: Peace