1 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: You say you want to agree? 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: That is of course Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: a TikTok of some guy on a skateboard who goes 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: by the name Dogface lip syncing to this song and 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: his seventy two million views, Fleetwood Mac's album Rumors broke 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: through Rolling Stone's top one hundred list again last year, 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: more than forty years after its release. My guest today 10 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: Mac existed for nearly a decade before the lineup we 12 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John mcvee, Lindsey Buckingham, 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: Christine mcvee and Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood Mac formed 14 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: in London in the late nineteen sixties, it was Peter 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: Green's idea. 16 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: Well, I would be remiss. Peter Green started fleet with 17 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: matc the original guitar player. I was at his right 18 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: hand side, John McVie. All of us have played in 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: the band called John Male's Blues Breakers, Eric McK taylor, 20 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: Peter Green, and I'm saying that because they would represent 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: great guitar players that came out of that band that 22 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: have more than made their mark in my world. And 23 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: so Peter asked me to play drums, and I already 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: had played with them in a funny band with Rod 25 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: Stewart for a short while, so we won't go into that. 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 2: So it was really a team of people that Peter 27 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: John McVie especially came out of a pedigree which was 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: absolute devotion to an art form, the blues, and really 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: all our heroes were American blues artists. And you are 30 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: well away I can tell about the irony of a 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: bunch of funny, little white kids in England really preserving 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: an art form that had long since been you know, 33 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: I won't use the bad word, but you know, pooped 34 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: on by the American sort of glossing over of something 35 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: that was so evident. So we were all from that framework, 36 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: and when we form Fleetwood Mac, it was all about 37 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: our lovely, semi innocent way of emulating our heroes. And 38 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: if you listen to the first few albums that we 39 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: made before Peter especially started really writing, like when you 40 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: look at early Rolling Stones, it's Bo Diddley and Chuck 41 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: Berry and with anyone you see the development into self expression, 42 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: and that's what transpired afterwards. But the original band was 43 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 2: all about that and a little team of people sharing 44 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: something and having a lot of fun with it, you know, 45 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: creatively turned into something a little bit more than we 46 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: ever could possibly have imagined. 47 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: The year that you formed the band with Green, what 48 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 3: year was that? 49 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty seven Windsor Jazz Festival and the band was 50 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 2: called Fleetwood Mac by Peter Green, who could have very 51 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: easily become the Jeff Beck or the Jimmy Page or 52 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: the Eric Clapton gunslinger guitar player. That's a whole nother story, 53 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: is a lovely story and an attribute to Peter's generosity. 54 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: We played the Windsor Jazz Festival intending, as you can tell, 55 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: with the name Fleetwood Mac. The name was my name 56 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: and John McVie, which Peter chose, and John was still 57 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: playing in John Male's Blues Breakers on the same show. 58 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: Watched the band he's supposed to be in from the 59 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: side of the stage, and about three months later he joined. 60 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with whatever amount 61 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: of money he does have. So when we had enough gigs, 62 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: he said, I'm ready to join, which was, of course. 63 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: When you've made it worth my while, it worth my wife, 64 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: I know there'll be no net loss in my income 65 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 3: by you. I'll meet you there at the club. 66 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what happened. 67 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: And when you say that Green could have been in 68 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: this pantheon of great guitar players, was it something he 69 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: didn't want that he did not want that level of 70 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: fame and that level of attention. 71 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: No, it was very evident. And the end story, which 72 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: of course went into a very changed person. He was 73 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: my dearest of dearest of friends and my mentor. You know, 74 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 2: he gave me so much encouragement as a player and 75 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: super fun person but unbelievably deep down, way more sensitive 76 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized. 77 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: And he eventually became sick and so came to a 78 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: sort of journey that was for a while was a 79 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: living tragedy for me elfishly, But then you learned to 80 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: accept him as he turned out. But back then everything 81 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: he did was about being just really generous. And I 82 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: read an article after you know you think, well, what 83 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 2: was the real story, And for instance would be that 84 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: someone asked him why was the bank all fleet with 85 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: Mac and he said, well, I figured at that point 86 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: i'd broken up with my lovely girlfriend, Jenny, who I 87 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: later married, and I played with Peter, and he had 88 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 2: his eyes on another drummer, as it turned out, and 89 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: he said, why did you pick Mick? And of course 90 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: my little less than self would have thought, well, maybe 91 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: you thought I was a good drummer, you know. And 92 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: what it was, he said, I wanted Mick to play 93 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: the drums cause I got so fed up with seeing 94 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: him so sad that I thought it would give him 95 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: something to do. And I thought that was the greatest 96 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend. 97 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: And that really sums it up about how it was 98 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: not about him. And he created a platform which served me. Well, 99 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 2: my father was an Air Force chap so the word 100 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: to serve, to serve, well, that's what I think I 101 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: learned to do. With all of how the madness of 102 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: this band and the incarnates of just are you kidding 103 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: me that if you wrote this down, you say, it's 104 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: not possible this bunch could possibly have survived with all 105 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: of the ups and downs and character changes and changing 106 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: the script as you go along. And yet there's still 107 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: a story. Peter started that and handed that to me. 108 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: I think when he welcomed everyone, including me, Danny Kerwin 109 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer, they were all 110 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: there so that Peter did not want to be king 111 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 2: Tut in the front there taking all the limelight, and 112 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 2: I think it was way more meaning full in sense 113 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: of where he came from. It's just he wanted to 114 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: be in a band, and he created that band and 115 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: made sure the band was not called Peter Greens anything, 116 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: because he could off very easily, and I always thank 117 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: him for that. The name Fleetwood Mac he was asked 118 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: and he said, well, I always thought that I would 119 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: probably move on, which he did under very strange circumstances, 120 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: unfortunately for us. And he said I wanted Mick and 121 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: John to have something. And I saw and heard this 122 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: interview years and years and years and years later. It's 123 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: like finding out a family relative will tell you what 124 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: the real story was. And sometimes it's mind blowing, and 125 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: sometimes it's hugely moving and gratifying to hear, and that 126 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: was one of them. 127 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: He didn't start drumming till you were thirteen. 128 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: Correct officially, but yeah, I would say I started hitting 129 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: furniture when I was about eight. 130 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: What change when you were thirteen that you were like, 131 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: I want a drum. Now, on a serious level, what change? 132 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 4: Oh? 133 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: I would think that, first of all, being completely on 134 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: some shape or form, completely dyslexic, and had not one 135 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So there 136 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: I was struggling with great parents. So I never felt 137 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: threatened or less than that. I couldn't. I still don't 138 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: know my alphabet or I mean, if my whole family 139 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 2: was lined up God forbid and said you don't have to. Yeah, well, 140 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: I know. But a lot of people say, you're kidding me. 141 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: It's a lot of people say about what I do 142 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: when I play drums. I said, actually, I sort of 143 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: really don't know what I'm doing, to tell you the 144 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 2: real truth, And you go, well, it's not. Then they 145 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: start arguing with you, go, how can you do that? 146 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: You're full of shit? You know, you know? I said, no, no, 147 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: it just comes out. I have no idea. So I 148 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: blundered into it. But I would think that the love 149 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: and the one thing that I could grab onto was 150 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: the fact that I, for some reason, I used to 151 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: play tapping on furniture which I mentioned to back in 152 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: Norway when I was much younger and we'd traveled to Egypt. 153 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: So I remember these leather little funny we call them 154 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: tuftus or something, things stuffed with newspaper that sound really 155 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: cool with their leather, leather sort of oddoman things. And 156 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: Mum would listen to the home service and do the 157 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: cleaning and have a dubonne and have a one cigarette 158 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: of the day. This is when I was probably about 159 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: six or seven in Norway, and I remember listening to 160 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: the radio and tapping on I don't know why on furniture, 161 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: but Daddy used to tap on coins and do military 162 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: things in his pocket and he would play bottles with 163 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: water in them at parties, so I vaguely remember that. 164 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: I don't think that's why I did it, but I 165 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: think my quantum leap was a blessing and it was 166 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: like a divine intervention of sorts that the one thing 167 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: I loved doing. I had this obsession with collecting drum 168 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: catalogs and fantasies of gold and sparkling instruments that were 169 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: in my dream. So at boarding school, the last thing 170 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: I did, I had this whole package filled with brushures 171 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: that opened one to the other, and I think I 172 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: saw my way out. And when Dad said, do you 173 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: want to go to college, and he didn't have any money, 174 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: but he was obviously making it available for me, and 175 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: with tears in our eyes, and I said, Daddy, I 176 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 2: want to go to London and play drums. And by 177 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: that time I'd had my little drum kit, almost a 178 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: toy drum kit, in the house. And I think it 179 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: was my learning disability that drove me. By some happen sense. 180 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: Both my sisters went into the arts. One was a 181 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: very fine actress, Susan with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and 182 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: my elder sister was an art student at the Polytechnic. 183 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 2: So we were all completely academically useless. So I had 184 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: the blessing that Mom and Dad said, then, my god, 185 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: it's probably the only one thing he really thinks he 186 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: can do, and that was I encouraged you, absolutely, just 187 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: I had complete and utter, not one iota of any 188 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 2: cynicism whatsoever, And they sent me off with a drum 189 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: kit to London wrapped in the blanket. My father wrote 190 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: a poem about it. 191 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. 192 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: If you love conversations with iconic musicians who also happen 193 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: to be members of long lasting bands, be sure to 194 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: check out my conversation with The Who's legendary frontman Roger 195 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: Daltrey from our archives. 196 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 3: Daughtrey talked about the first time he swung a microphone 197 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: around on stage. No one told me. 198 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 4: I got used to myself once I went into the 199 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 4: free form in the early days, the late sixties. It 200 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 4: just came out of boredom I was. I couldn't stand 201 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 4: there and be like Robert Plant. I wasn't cool enough. 202 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 4: I just needed to dance. So I didn't want to 203 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 4: dance like an ordinary dancer. So I just started to 204 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 4: play with it, and it just got bigger and energy 205 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 4: and channel the energy, and then the peice started jumping, 206 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 4: and that legendary jump of his. He's like a kangaroo. 207 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 4: And but the whole thing was kind of in with 208 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 4: the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it. It 209 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 4: was kind of extraordinary. 210 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: Here the rest of my conversation with Roger Daltrey, and 211 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: here's the thing dot Org. After the break, we talk 212 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: about the women who became essential to the group's sound. 213 00:12:53,840 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. 214 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: That's Christine mcvee performing the Songbird. Mcvee joined Fleetwood Mac 215 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy when Peter Green left. She'd married John 216 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: mcvee a couple of years before. Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie 217 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 1: Nicks joined in nineteen seventy five. I wanted to know 218 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: if when Christine joined there was any pressure to include 219 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: a woman. 220 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 2: Well, Christine, for sure, any lovely lady out there would 221 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: not take it wrong. She was a musician and she 222 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 2: was a great piano player, and her experience was already 223 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 2: integrated with being I'm a player, and it was nothing 224 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: of the sort that it was a woman or a man. 225 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 2: It was just who you are and what you do. Truly, 226 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: it was that and she cherishes that to this day 227 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: because we call her the rock. You know. She's like, 228 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: she doesn't rely on anything other than no prissy stuff. 229 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 2: I am who I am, and am I delivering what 230 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: you need? And she has that respect. So she came 231 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: into the band as a player, literally, and there was 232 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: no thought she knew John, which had nothing to do 233 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 2: with it. 234 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 3: Is your maiden name? Really? Perfect. Is it Christine perfect? Yeah? 235 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: And John would say she was perfect before she married me. 236 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: Well done, ja, So that was really it. It was 237 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: not about having a lady in. 238 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 3: The bout we need a girl. 239 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: No, it was about a really really great musician, bloody 240 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: good piano player. 241 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true, 242 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: which is that in that world there is nobody who 243 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: casts me like Christine McBee. I mean I love her 244 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: singing beyond believe. I mean, she just she does something 245 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: to me that I can't even describe. She her singing 246 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: is so beautiful, you know. 247 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: I can second right right. 248 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: So she's with you in the band, and then you 249 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: decide to have another woman join the band. So Buckingham, 250 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: you asked him to join the band. 251 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, but Bob Welch had left at rather short notice, 252 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: and I knew Bob extremely well, really lovely, hugely interesting chap, 253 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 2: so he left. But prior to that, I've been in 254 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: the studio sound City to try and find a studio 255 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: to record the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he leaves 256 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 2: and I meet Stevie and Lindsey after the fact, having 257 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio part of a 258 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: Buckham Nick's album that he'd made with them, the album 259 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: and then Bob left. Then I made a phone call 260 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: and I said, you know that music you were playing? 261 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: Who what? How? And you're right, I was looking for 262 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: a guitar player. So I forever have Stevie to this 263 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: day in a comedic sense, but always with a knife 264 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: in my back. It wasn't really me that you wanted. 265 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: It was Lindsay, which was true, and in very short form, 266 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: Lindsay made it very clear that if he was to join, 267 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: which was not a slam dunk at the beginning, because 268 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: he and Stevie were thinking about going forward in their 269 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: own world, and she actually persuaded Lindsay to join the 270 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 2: band pretty much. She got fed up with waiting tables 271 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: and stuff, so she came somewhat originally by default, and 272 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: yet not because the real story is it was very 273 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: evident early on, although Stevie said, you know loves to 274 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: dig at me, it was that, first of all, Lindsay 275 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 2: was incredibly loyal to her and I'm not going to 276 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: do this without her. Boom over. Then it didn't take 277 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: a rocket scientist to realize these songs, these beautiful songs, 278 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: were co written by both Lindsay and Stevie, and then 279 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: you listened to the vocal blend, which is none other 280 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 2: than going like when you hear the Everly Brothers, you 281 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 2: go like, oh my god, that this joined at the 282 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: hip and they came in short form into the band 283 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 2: as a duo, which was a merciful decision when I 284 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: look back that Lindsey did not deserter and said I'm here, 285 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 2: but I'm here with my partner, and that's how that happened. 286 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: I've asked other very successful artists, such as yourself in 287 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: the music world, what does a producer do for you 288 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: when you're in a studio, when you're making a record. 289 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: Who's the decider who decides what take what track, this 290 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: vocal track, this drum track, whatever. But when you had 291 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: a collaboration with the producer that helped you, what did. 292 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 3: They do for you? 293 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 2: Well, I think the simple form would be that we 294 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: as a band no matter what, which is not always 295 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: the case, and it's not always the magic formula. A 296 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: lot of people just totally excel by being guided and 297 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 2: permanently told what to do and have a mirror that's 298 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 2: a reflection from another aspect, another interpretation of really who 299 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: they truly are, and that's fine. That was so not 300 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: how we grew up into and blustered into what we 301 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 2: were doing. So I would say that anyone that's worked, 302 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 2: including Keith Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably 303 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: the most influential that he was a blues fanatic and 304 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 2: he ran that little label we were on called Blue 305 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: Horizon and after that, so he would be picking songs 306 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 2: here and there with Peter and the band. After that, 307 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: it's really about are you a band member meaning them? 308 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not 309 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 2: insist but integrate right into the fabric of being in 310 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: a band. And that's what I would always look out for, 311 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 2: and I think that's been our success has been absolute 312 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 2: expression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's really 313 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: listening to and having an empathy with what am I 314 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 2: dealing with here, especially later on when we became very 315 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: much five separate expressive people that whoever it was, you 316 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 2: have to look back on and give them huge amounts 317 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: of credit. Has been some form of a social director 318 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: more than an artistic director. And I lost all my 319 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: hair because I was both. 320 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: But would you say when you say five separate, distinct beings, 321 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: there was a period when they weren't there were a unit, 322 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: and they were a unit during what period and what 323 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: was that like and what changed that? 324 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: Musically? 325 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 2: Well, Fleetwood Mac was already a stage that existed, and 326 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: Fleetwood Mac was always about change, so that you were 327 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 2: accepted for who you were. Anyone should express themselves. You know, 328 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 2: when I look back on it, that's in a naive 329 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: way what I must have understood, especially being a drama 330 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 2: when you go, oh, what the hell am I going 331 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: to do if I don't have a front line and 332 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: people that are delivering the play. You know, not to 333 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: diminish who I am and what I am. But that 334 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: was my function, probably more than anything. So they came 335 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 2: as different characters walking on that stage, and if you 336 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 2: see and hear the music, you go none of it 337 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: makes any sense. None of them were clones of anyone. 338 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: They were all completely their own entity. So what they 339 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: had to learn was to be in a band. Everyone 340 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 2: was extremely unhappy emotionally on the making of Rumors and 341 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 2: Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's tough. You know, 342 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: no one ever intended to leave or anything, but one time. 343 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 2: I remember sitting in the studio the record plant with 344 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 2: Lindsey and he just turned and I said, I don't 345 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 2: know whether I can do this. You know, it's just 346 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 2: you know, we're in transition here. And his interpretation was 347 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: can I be in a band? Can I be in 348 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: a band? Especially with the pressure of is this what 349 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 2: it's like being in a band? You're emotionally exposed and 350 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: everyone was. We were all in, you know, I'm drifting 351 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 2: into the area where we promised we wouldn't go. But 352 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 2: so I just sat with him and he was playing 353 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: a setar I remember it distinctly, and I said, then 354 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: you must go. If it's self preservation, don't destroy that, 355 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 2: don't destroy yourself because of the play in essence Peter Green, Yeah, 356 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: And I said I don't have any ultimate apart from 357 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: if it's that bad, then you have to go. And 358 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 2: then I segued and I said, this is what it is. 359 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 2: Everything is a compromise when you're walking on a stage 360 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: and sharing that stage, and this is that stage. And 361 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 2: I'm not forcing you. I'm extremely sad if halfway through 362 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 2: an album you just can't finish it out. And he 363 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 2: didn't say much. He just said I understand, and he stayed. 364 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: A guy once said to me, and he was much 365 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: younger than me, and this is maybe like ten years ago. 366 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 3: I was in my early fifties. 367 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: It was in the lines of advice to him for 368 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: his career, and I said, well, do you really want 369 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: like the cold, hard, unvarnished You want it with the 370 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: bark on or the bark Off? And I said, if 371 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: you want it with the bark On, then don't get 372 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: married till you're forty, don't have any kids till your forty. 373 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: Give yourself. You're not just your twenties, but your thirties. 374 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: Give this everything you have. If you want to be 375 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: an actor with a real prime if you want to 376 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: be Leo DiCaprio, you want to be a guy who's 377 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: like at the top of the pile and making movies 378 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: with the best directors, the best scripts. Everything's the best, 379 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: the budgets, the release dates, everything. If you want to 380 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: surf that wave all the way to the shore, then 381 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: you have to make this the most important thing in 382 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: your life. Do you find that that was true for 383 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: you as well? 384 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 2: I think in retrospect we didn't know because you're in it. 385 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 2: But as a comment, I think it's entirely correct and 386 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 2: proven out in no uncertain terms of time and time 387 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 2: and time and time and time and time. 388 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: Again. 389 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: Are the miracles that slip through and survive like a 390 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 2: built in version of what you've just said In terms 391 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 2: of advice, yeah, few and far between. It really puts 392 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 2: a wall that you don't even realize that you're putting up, 393 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: where you're so into what you're doing that people get 394 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 2: left out and feel pushed away. So ideally, I think 395 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: your advice is entirely correct, but that advice is always 396 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: almost in retrospect for anyone. 397 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering also with three men, I mean Asleep 398 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: with Mac is most renowned for it's three men and 399 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: two women. 400 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 3: And neither one of those women has children? 401 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 2: Correct? 402 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: Were they people that they were going through left and 403 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: they were like, well, we're going to get to that, 404 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: And the next year they turned around they were like wow, 405 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: twenty five years like nothing. 406 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: You know. 407 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: I would say if either Chris or Stevie, I feel 408 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: comfortable in this conversation saying there is no doubt that 409 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: they made that decision to dedicate their lives to their 410 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: careers with flashes of what if. But I think both 411 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 2: of these ladies would have no problems saying that that 412 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 2: was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah, yeah, interesting, 413 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: very interesting. Yeah. 414 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: Now when people ask me about my drug use, I 415 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: say that I snorted a line of cocaine from here 416 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine on 417 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: the rings of Saturn, and then we took it home 418 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: with another. 419 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: Oh, I've got your being sure? Is that possible? I 420 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 2: think your description is that actually more far reaching than mine, 421 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: a planetary version, But my version of that would be 422 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: and I've never lived it down, but you know, I 423 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: have no problem at all apart from don go there. 424 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 2: And then you have the war stories, which this is 425 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: sort of tending to be. And I'll preface it by 426 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 2: saying war stories are fine, but there's a time and 427 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: place and what can you learn from them would be 428 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: my little lesson for anyone listening. So, having said that, 429 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 2: my transgression was which was some awful interview I did, 430 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: and I said, well, one time, you know, I was 431 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 2: in the studio and I'm talking about my Well, how 432 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: much coke do you think I've ever done? This was 433 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: like in our private world, and we measured out a 434 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: good semi fat line of cocaine, and then duplicated it, 435 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 2: and then X amount of years, so in the last 436 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 2: something something amount of years we actually worked it out 437 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: instead of cutting tape and editing the song together. We 438 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: got into a transgression of actually working out probably about 439 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 2: how long would that line be? And it was seven 440 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: miles long apparently, And I never lived that down and 441 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 2: years all, especially in England, whether they love all that 442 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 2: terrible stuff, and I have to sit there not talking 443 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 2: about in you'd be like someone talking about something in 444 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 2: your life versus the play I'm in or the script 445 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: I've just written, or the book I've just you know, 446 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 2: and you go, you go like, well, live with it, 447 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: because you opened your mouth in the first place all 448 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: those years ago. And mine would be one of probably 449 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: quite a few transgressions in terms of that, but comediically, 450 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: so I still get asked, you know, was it really 451 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: seven miles long? And I look down to my trouser 452 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: and go, well, I wished. 453 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thirty five years sober. I got sober 454 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,239 Speaker 1: a long time ago in la For you, did you 455 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: feel that when that stopped? Because for me, when it stopped, 456 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: there were good things, but they were also bad things. 457 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: Because you're forced to in front everything. You know, if 458 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: you are if you go out in the world and 459 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: you don't drink and you don't take drugs. Minimum commenting 460 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: on you, but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored, 461 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: and you need to go out and face the world 462 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: that you need to resolve all your problems. You can't 463 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: sit in the problem anymore. You've got to resolve things 464 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: and confront things and clean up the mass and so forth. 465 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically 466 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: once you stopped abusing yourself. 467 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 2: Well, I still drink, but the marching powder was a 468 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: massive part of my life for probably way over twenty years. 469 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 3: Just it's a long time. 470 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle. 471 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 3: So that's a long time to have that problem. 472 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I was known as the King of Toot 473 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 2: and everyone would always know that I wouldn't hold it, 474 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 2: you know. And then I did hit a brick wall 475 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: and it was like slow motion. And my mother Biddy 476 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 2: would always say, because they're hugely support, almost blindly supported, Oh, 477 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: there's no problem at all. Whenever he wants to stop, 478 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 2: he can stop it. You know, all those catchphrases, and 479 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: I always sort of thought that I could. And then 480 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 2: I hit a brick walk literally and someone that I 481 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: shared my life with said, I'm I'm done. I can't 482 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 2: be around this anymore. And I said, please don't go 483 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: leave me alone for two days, and that's what I 484 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: did and never touched the stuff since overnight. It's divine intervention, 485 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: but it's also misplaced in terms of that. That's when 486 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 2: I probably should have gone into a program and found 487 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: out what you touched on, what were those reasons? And 488 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: I've done that since a couple of times with drink 489 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: and had a sort of a wake up call, and 490 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 2: I just thought it was fun. I was around people 491 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: telling me literally countless horror stories of what had happened 492 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 2: to them, especially when they were children and young, and 493 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: I had no support and all sorts of terrible things, 494 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 2: and I just said, I feel so terrible because I 495 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 2: just thought it was fun until it wasn't. And I 496 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: still actually haven't found the key of what was that 497 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: My parents didn't drink on. Julie had an incredible supportive childhood. 498 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: But that brick wall was. 499 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 3: It insecurity about being in public? Maybe? Oh, I think 500 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 3: out there and being famous. 501 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: I mean Fleetwood Mac. I mean this music was coming 502 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: out of every clamshell on the beach. For a while, 503 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: every horse in the park was singing, you. 504 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 3: Can go your own way. You know. 505 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 5: It was like this music was everywhere, everywhere. There were 506 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 5: so many songs that were just washing over you. It 507 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 5: was like in the air all the time. Was that 508 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 5: unsettling for you? Fame and all that attention. Could you 509 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 5: need to medicate yourself to get through that period? 510 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 2: I would say immediately noticed how quickly I went. 511 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 4: No. 512 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 2: But I do get nervous about performing. If someone said 513 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 2: make a speech and read the speech to three thousand people, 514 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 2: I would be really put upon go out on stage 515 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: and just talk to someone I love. Not even a question. 516 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: I know people around me that all of the trimmings 517 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: of what you just mentioned would be. Was that something 518 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 2: that freaked you out? I have to say no, Because 519 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: of the way I was brought up. 520 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 3: It was just. 521 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 2: Fantastic and fun. But actually performing and delivering certain aspects 522 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: I would have to say, did bring out a fundamental 523 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 2: some form of academic calling out that you don't know 524 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: quite what you're doing and therefore shitting itself. And therefore 525 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: I know for a fact for years, and I played 526 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: sober for fifteen years. The real truth is I didn't 527 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: enjoy it. So when I play now, I have one 528 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 2: bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved, and 529 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 2: without it, I can't even breathe. And I've tried hypnosis. 530 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,719 Speaker 2: I've tried everything known to mankind to get over it 531 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: and breathing, and I had a guy like meditating with 532 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 2: me on the road when I really really really really 533 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 2: really didn't drink. All I can say is that instead 534 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 2: of enjoying myself, I had my road manager with a 535 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 2: brown paper bag so I could breathe into it to 536 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't enjoy it, and 537 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: it's because of the element, which has nothing to do 538 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: with fame and fortune. It's actually who are you? What 539 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: are you in the moment and being called out like 540 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 2: being in the class that I didn't I didn't know. 541 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: Mick Fleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, 542 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, 543 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: leave us a review. I really appreciate it. Few bands 544 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: have managed to survive longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we 545 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: return the surprising resurgence of interest in the band's nineteen 546 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: seventy seven album Rumors. He's the same kind of story 547 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: seems to come down long ago. That's the song hypnotized 548 00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood 549 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for more than 550 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: fifty years. And as there's usually one person in every 551 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: long lasting band that brings them back together, I asked 552 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: who was that person for Fleetwood Mac. 553 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 2: It would be me. And that was and is and 554 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 2: has been my function. I imaged it a while ago, 555 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: not not any big deal, but I'm going, like, you know, 556 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: because I don't write, I don't sing, although I'm enjoying 557 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 2: doing some of that now, which is interesting, really actually 558 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: interesting to be able to make a private fool of 559 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 2: yourself with no pressure. I said, I think my story 560 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 2: would be and I'm really happy about it and quietly 561 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: proud of it. That my function was that I drifted 562 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 2: into it, I learned it, and me and John always 563 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,479 Speaker 2: wanted to have a band to be in. Why wouldn't you? 564 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: And I said, I think that story is my song. 565 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: Your musical catalory. You can see so many beautiful songs. 566 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: It's beautiful music, and the poetry is beautiful, and the 567 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: lyrics it still moves you to this day. 568 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. I take that as a lovely compliment on behalf 569 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 2: of all of us in this crazy band, and thank you. 570 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 2: And I think there is sometimes almost the lighthearted part 571 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: of Fleetwood Mac or whatever word one wants to use, 572 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 2: the sort of the poppy part of it was always 573 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 2: balanced out by a form of reveal, a form of 574 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 2: very often some romance of sadness, and entertaining that type 575 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: of dialogue would be for me is songbird, And there are, 576 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 2: of course are others. But I remember when Chris wrote that, 577 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 2: and I actually spoke very recently to her about it. 578 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: We just drifted into a conversation and she totally remembered, 579 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: and I went, Chris, this is like Edith paf on 580 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: a stage alone. And she was in the studio at 581 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 2: the record plant, and I said, this needs to be lonely. 582 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 2: We should record it in an empty theater, not in 583 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 2: a shag carpet studio. Let's go and do that. And 584 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: we did, and we went a college over in Berkeley 585 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 2: and recorded that song. As the imaging of it was 586 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 2: so devastating to me. I said, you are alone. You 587 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: are alone playing this lovely, lovely song, and it should 588 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 2: be all of that. And that's exactly what we did. 589 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 3: It was. 590 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: It was the most pregnant suite moment around the song 591 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 2: that I can tell. In our short conversation. 592 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: Some including Stevie Nixon, and we read about Dylan's going 593 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: to sell his catalog and David Crosby's getting ready to 594 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: sell his catalog. And I guess in this COVID era 595 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: and beyond, in the age of streaming music, people are 596 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: seeing the sources of revenue dry up. Certainly, some of 597 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 1: these people are older. You know, they're not selling their 598 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: catalog and they're in their thirties or whatever. But what 599 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: do you think of them? 600 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 2: I think it's great. I'm sure it's not for everyone 601 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 2: or whatever. But I think the circumstances has triggered so 602 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 2: many things. This would be one of them. I think 603 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 2: those decisions may or may not have been made anyhow, 604 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 2: who's to say why not? And a body of work 605 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: that is to be quite frankly translated into all sorts 606 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 2: of lovely things for these people, whatever that might be. 607 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 2: Because the people you're talking about, they certainly don't need 608 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,959 Speaker 2: any money for the most part. But no, honestly, let's 609 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 2: say we doubt it. So it becomes something that will 610 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 2: grow into all sorts of other things. One would imagine. 611 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 2: What they might be is their business, you know, And 612 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 2: one of the things I think is family. I think 613 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 2: a lot of people are handing down to family ahead 614 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 2: of time versus you know, people picking through when your 615 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 2: God forbid, whenever that moment comes. And to see family 616 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 2: enjoying stuff that can be allocated before you do pop off. 617 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: So, if I'm not mistaken, Rumors is a best selling 618 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: album again now as the direct result of some guy 619 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: on a skateboard swinging down cranberry juice. 620 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 3: What did you think? What did you think of when 621 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 3: you first came across the TikTok? Phenomenal? Right, it has occurred. 622 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 2: Well, I know him as Nathan. His online name is Dogface, 623 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 2: and it is quite unbelievable. All hell was breaking loose 624 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 2: because he made a decision one day to do his thing. 625 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 2: It happened in the most charming way. And then someone said, well, 626 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 2: would would you? I said, well, I can't get on 627 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 2: a skateboard, so I hung myself off the back of 628 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 2: a golf cart and did the thing, and the next 629 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 2: thing I know, we're all on you know, halftime sports programs, 630 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 2: and god knows what else his whole life has changed. 631 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: And I actually loved it because it was so not 632 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 2: thought of. One of the lovely things I was able 633 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 2: to say on a zoom call. He was doing an 634 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 2: interview in England with some very upstanding BBC chap and 635 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 2: he had no idea I was going to come on 636 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 2: the zoom call. So that's when I first met him, 637 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 2: you know, face to face, and then his family came on. 638 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 2: They sang songs to me and stuff, and I said, 639 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 2: let me tell you, Nathan Fleetwood mac os, it's been 640 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 2: a fantastic moment in time that when a wall and 641 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 2: typical Fleetwood matc. Just when you think, you know, we've survived, 642 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 2: We've been really lucky, you know in so many some 643 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 2: of the things we've touched on in our talk where 644 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 2: again hopeless odds, we've prevailed. And I always joke about, 645 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 2: especially with Lindsay Buckingham years ago. I used to sit 646 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 2: with him and go like, we are the most abused 647 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 2: rock and roll franchise in the world, meaning we've never 648 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,879 Speaker 2: capitalized on anything. Really we're all idiots, but it's sort 649 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 2: of good and we're still here. 650 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 3: It's unbelievable. 651 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: I mean again, I say this because it's easy, and 652 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: that is you're still here and people are picking songs 653 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: of yours to soundtrack their kind of playfulness and TikTok 654 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: and so forth, because the. 655 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 3: Music is great. 656 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: I mean you, and you're going back to hypnotized and Welsh. 657 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: I love hypnotized. I love mystery to me, I love all. 658 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: I love those early records, I play them to death. 659 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: I love every guys, and then solo acts Christia, you 660 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: know Stevie's solo albums, blah blah blah. 661 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 3: I love it all. But I mean you. You live 662 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,959 Speaker 3: in people's hearts because the music is that good. 663 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: You guys made some of the greatest music in the 664 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: history of the music posiness. 665 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 666 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 2: No, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I remember something 667 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 2: my father said, and it seems to really apply to 668 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 2: a lot of the storytelling about this funny life and 669 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 2: most certainly Fleetwood Mac and the fact that there have 670 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 2: been all sorts of ups and downs and around the 671 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,919 Speaker 2: Marlbury Bush and pain and a lot of happiness as well. 672 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 2: My dad would always say one thing, Nick, I can 673 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 2: tell you it's all been worth a damn. And hearing 674 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 2: you say that about the music makes me feel that 675 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 2: it's all been worth a damn. And thank you, Oh 676 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 2: lots of love to you, and my love to you. 677 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 3: Nick Cleepworth. 678 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: Like the end of the radio, I'm Alec Baldwin and 679 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 1: this is here's the thing from iHeartRadio. 680 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 2: I'm not let you believe that you're bad. 681 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 1: No, not cad you go. I'm I'm gonna bead you 682 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: b