1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 2: This week we're going to talk about Dean Mohammad, who 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 2: was born in Putna, which today is the capital of 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: the state of Bihar in northeastern India. He was born 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: in seventeen fifty nine, so that was about a century 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: before Britain established direct rule over much of the Indian subcontinent. 9 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 2: But he grew up as the British East India Company 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: was in the process of taking control of more and 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: more territory in India, and that's something that he himself 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: was actually part of. Dean Mohammad had just a fascinating life. 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: It included at least three distinct careers, more if you 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: count the times that he did civilian work that was 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: really similar to what he had done done while attached 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: to the Bengal Army. He was the first Indian person 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: to publish a book in English, and he established what 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: was probably England's first Indian restaurant. His life was so 19 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: far ranging that we're going to cover him in two parts. 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: So today we will talk about his time in India 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: and with the army, and then on Wednesday after he 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: immigrated to Ireland and then England. At that point he 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: became an entrepreneur. He had a restaurant. He also had 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: steambaths in Brighton. I find all that really fascinating. I 25 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 2: have a quick note on names before we get started, 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: although this is a much clearer distinction written out than 27 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: it is as audio. If Dean Muhammad were living today, 28 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: his name would probably be transliterated as Din Mohammad so 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: Dn Muhammad. But English language spellings of his name from 30 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: his lifetime were really all over the place, including variations 31 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: in how he spelled his own name in his own 32 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: published work, and then the spelling is also inconsistent in 33 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: papers and books that have been published over the last 34 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 2: couple of decades. It's like it's not consistently handled among 35 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: American and English like white scholars, it's not spelled consistently 36 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: within Indian scholars or Indian American scholars. It's kind of 37 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 2: all over the place. Most but not all, are using 38 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: one of the two spellings that he used himself. I 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: tried to just sort of pick one so for the 40 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: sake of consistency in the written text. We are using 41 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: the spelling that he was using later the later years 42 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: of his life. 43 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: That is the spelling that we went with. De Muhammad 44 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: described himself as Indian and referred to the place he 45 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: was from as India. But we want to stress that 46 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: this was not an established nation in the way that 47 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: it is today. It was and still is a region 48 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: of incredible religious and cultural diversity, home to hundreds of 49 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: spoken languages and enormous cultural variations from one area to another. 50 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: When Di Muhammad was born, the Mughal dynasty had ruled 51 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: much of what's now India for more than two hundred years, 52 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: starting in the early sixteenth century. For much of that time, 53 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: it had been one of the wealthiest, most powerful, and 54 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: most stable political dynasties in the world. 55 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: But by the early eighteenth century, the Mughal Empire had 56 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: started to fracture in the face of uprisings, economic instability, 57 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: and other issues. Emperor Aaringzeb, who had ruled from sixteen 58 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: fifty eight to seventeen oh seven, had expanded the empire 59 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: to its largest size by annexing neighboring kingdoms, but he 60 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: had also become increasingly intolerant of its religious diversity. The 61 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: dynasty was Muslim, but the people it was ruling over 62 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: were predominantly Hindu, along with Christians, Boasts, six Jains, and 63 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: adherents of other religions. In the later years of Arngzeb's reign, 64 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: he started to really treat the empire's non Muslim population 65 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: as inferior, including imposing taxes specifically on non Muslims. His 66 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: rule just became increasingly theocratic. He was increasingly unable to 67 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: keep the support of this predominantly non Muslim population. As 68 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 2: the Mughal Empires started to fracture, regional states and provinces arose, 69 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: and conflicts arose among them. Multiple European nations had also 70 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: established trading companies or East India Companies on the Indian 71 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: subcontinent starting in the sixteen hundreds. These were focused on 72 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 2: the production and export of goods like spices, indigo, cotton, 73 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: and saltpeter, which was used to make gunpowder. Another was opium, 74 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: which some nations, especially England, wanted to trade with China 75 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 2: in exchange for goods like tea, silk, and porcelain. Of course, 76 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 2: the opium trade had horrific and devastating social and economic 77 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: effects in China, but that is entirely its own subject. 78 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: So these trading companies were competing with one another, and 79 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,239 Speaker 2: they saw the increasing division and instability within the Mughal 80 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: Empire as a chance to just take control of more 81 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: territory and more wealth. The English East India Company in particular, 82 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: took enormous advantage of this and did a massive land 83 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: and power grab. A big motivation here was England's ongoing 84 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: wars with France, which led England to see French efforts 85 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: in both Southeast Asia and Northern Africa as a major threat. 86 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: So while the Mughal Empire still nominally existed until the 87 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 2: mid nineteenth century, these European trading companies, especially the English 88 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: East India Company, seized and wielded more and more power. 89 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: All of this had a direct influence on Dean Muhammad 90 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: and his family beyond the general way of living in 91 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: the middle of a massive and expanding European colonization effort. 92 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: He was descended from Schieite Muslims who had immigrated to 93 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: the Indian subcontinent from Central Asia generations before and had 94 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: become part of the Mughal Empire's Muslim ruling class. He 95 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: described himself as distantly related to Naabs or provincial governors 96 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: of Murshidabad on his father's side. That meant that his 97 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: family was one of many who were forced to figure 98 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: out where they fit in this rapidly changing power structure. 99 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: Did they remain loyal to the Mughal leadership that their 100 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: family had served and been part of for generations, or 101 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: did they try to move into a role within the 102 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: East India Company to try to preserve their power and status. 103 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: Either had risks, but by the mid seventeen hundreds it 104 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: was clear that the British East India Company was overtaking 105 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 2: the Mughal Empire. This is especially true after the Battle 106 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: of Plasi on June twenty third, seventeen fifty seven. Briefly, 107 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: the English East India Company had built up a major 108 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: presence in Kolkata, which was then known to English speakers 109 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: as Calcutta. In June of seventeen fifty six, the Nowab 110 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: of Bengal, Saraja Dalla had rallied a huge military force 111 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: to take control of Kolkata and of the East India 112 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: Company's fort there, Fort William. The Nawab had expelled the 113 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: British from Kolkata and had imprisoned everyone who remained in 114 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: the fort in a cell that became known as the 115 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: Black Hole of Calcutta. We actually talked about this cell 116 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: and the sensationalized accounts of what happened there on the show. 117 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: Back in twenty fifteen. 118 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: Robert Clive led a British force to retake Kolkata and 119 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: install a puppet Noab, who the English thought would be 120 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: more compliant and accommodating. Clive then tracked down Saraj ad Dowla, 121 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: who had moved on to Plasi. Saraj fled after a 122 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: brief skirmish and was later killed. And after all this, 123 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: the English East India Company really started expanding its military 124 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: presence in India. This military presence was predominantly Indian, under 125 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: the command of British or other European officers. Many of 126 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: the Indians who were recruited into the English East India 127 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: Company's forces already had military experience in the armies of 128 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: various Mughal leaders, or they'd been working basically as guards 129 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: at English factories and warehouses. These recruits basically became a 130 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: new type of soldier in the East India Company's army, 131 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: known as the sepoy from the Persian term sapai or soldier. 132 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: Indian soldiers of a number of religions served in the 133 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: East India Company's army, but as had been the case 134 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: with the Mughal Empire's leadership, the officers were more likely 135 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: to be Muslim. Roughly a quarter of the population of 136 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: the Indian subcontinent was Muslim, although that number varied widely 137 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: from region to region, but Muslims made up about half 138 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: of the army's highest ranking officers and about two fifths 139 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:13,359 Speaker 1: of the lower officers. These Indian soldiers had specific European 140 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: style uniforms and specific ranks. They were trained according to 141 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: European military methods, and they were issued mass produced European 142 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: style weapons, and this training and weaponry made a huge 143 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: difference in how effective they were against other Indian military units. 144 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: Indian firearms could be really high quality, sometimes superior to 145 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: the standard issue firearms that were used by the East 146 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: India Company's infantry, but they were also usually hand crafted 147 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: A lot of the times they used customized ammunition. Meanwhile, 148 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: the East India Company's weapons used standardized, mass produced ammunition 149 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: that was widely available within the company and really easy 150 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: to distribute to soldiers in large quantities. The combination of training, discipline, 151 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: and standard weaponry meant that the East India Companies Indian 152 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: infantry units could often defeat other Indian armies that were 153 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: dominated by cavalry and artillery, holding their formations and rapidly 154 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: responding to changing battle conditions carrying out the orders and 155 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: strategies of European officers. Much of this was formalized and 156 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: standardized in seventeen sixty four as the East India Company 157 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: tried to cut down on disorganization and reduce the likelihood 158 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: that dissatisfaction within the Indian units would lead to mutinies. 159 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: These Indian military units were absolutely critical to England's efforts 160 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: to control and colonize the Indian subcontinent. England simply did 161 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: not have the manpower to keep a standing army of 162 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: just Europeans in India, especially as so many soldiers were 163 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: needed for various ongoing wars that were happening in Europe. 164 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: Later also in North America, England struggled just to keep 165 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: a European officer calls or to command its Indian units 166 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: in India, resorting to hiring contractors from any European country 167 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: to deploy to India. The voyage from Europe to Southeast 168 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: Asia was difficult and a lot of people died on 169 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: the way or got there too sick to work, and 170 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: then Moore died after arriving due to the dramatically different 171 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: climate and exposure to different diseases than Europeans already had 172 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: experience with. By way of example, when Dean Muhammad first 173 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: became connected to the Bengal Army which we are about 174 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: to get to, it had twenty seven thousand, two hundred 175 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: seventy seven active Indian officers and men working under five 176 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: hundred twenty two European officers and two thousand, seven hundred 177 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: twenty two European soldiers. This same pattern existed outside of 178 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: the East India Company's army as well. During this period, 179 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: there were fewer than two hundred British civil officials overseeing 180 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: thousands of Indian bureaucrats and administrators in areas the East 181 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: India Company had taken over. 182 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: Over time, the English East India Company established three armies 183 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: in three different places that it had the biggest presence. 184 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 2: Those were Bengal, Madras and Bombay. The Bengal Army was 185 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: the last of these to be established, but it became 186 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: the biggest of the three after Robert Clive started a 187 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: massive recruitment effort in April of seventeen fifty eight that 188 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: was in the wake of the Battle of Plassey. It's 189 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: likely that Dean Mohammad's father joined the army during this 190 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: recruitment push, and Dean Mohammad was born about a year later, 191 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: and we'll get to that after we pause for a 192 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 2: sponsor break. Dean Mohammad was born in May of seventeen 193 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: fifty nine. As we said earlier, his father had joined 194 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: the English East India Company's Bengal Army about a year before, 195 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 2: since he was already among the higher ranks of society. 196 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: Mohammad's father seems to have started out as an officer, 197 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 2: although one of the lower ranking officers. He was repeatedly 198 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: promoted though, and ultimately became a Subadar, which was equivalent 199 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 2: to lieutenant. That was the second highest rank that an 200 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: Indian could hold in one of the East India Company's armies. 201 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: In addition to trying to take over more territory and 202 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: consolidate its power and influence in India, the English East 203 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: India Company was trying to fund itself by demanding taxes 204 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: of the local people, especially landowners. Landowners and villagers alike 205 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 2: resisted this taxation, sometimes violently. Dean Muhammad's father was killed 206 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: in seventeen sixty nine while trying to enforce one of 207 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: the East India Company's taxes. According to Muhammad's account, there 208 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: were two rajas or local princes who were resisting this 209 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: tax and his father's company had taken one of them prisoner. 210 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: The other had fought back, and quote, my father remained 211 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: in the field, giving the enemy some striking proofs of 212 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: the courage of their adversary, which drove them to such 213 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 2: measures that they strengthened their posts and redoubled their attacks 214 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: with such ardor that many of our men fell, and 215 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: my lamented father among the rest, but not untill he 216 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: had entirely exhausted the forces of the Rajah, who at 217 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: length submitted the soldiers animated by his example, made chorusing 218 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: a prisoner, and took possession of the fort. Thus have 219 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: I been deprived of a gallant father, whose firmness and 220 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: resolution was manifested in his military conduct on several occasions. 221 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: Mohammed had an older brother who requested to be placed 222 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: in their late father's post. This request was granted, so 223 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: he basically inherited their father's position and rank in the army. 224 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: For a time, Mohammed and their mother remained in Patna, 225 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: living off of money that she had inherited after her 226 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: husband's death. They lived in a place where Mohammed could 227 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: always see people coming and going outside their home, and 228 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: he was fascinating by the soldiers, both Indian and European, 229 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: that he saw passing. By one evening, he managed to 230 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: follow a group of people into the Raja's palace, where 231 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: European men gathered in the evening for coffee and tea, 232 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: dancing and audiences with the Raja, and various food and amusements. 233 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: One particular soldier caught Mohammed's attention. That was an Anglo 234 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: Irish cadet named Godfrey Evan Baker, who was a new recruit. 235 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: Baker was eighteen or nineteen, so about eight years older 236 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: than Dean Mohammed, who was around eleven. Later, Mohammad wrote. 237 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 2: Quote, I was highly pleased with the appearance of the 238 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: military gentleman, among whom I first beheld mister Baker, who 239 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: particularly drew my attention. I followed him without any restraint 240 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: through every part of the palace in tents, and remained 241 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: in a spectator of the entire scene of pleasure till 242 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: the company broke up, and then returned home to my mother, 243 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: who felt some anxiety in my absence. When I disco 244 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: the gayety and splendor I beheld the entertainment, she seemed 245 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: very much dissatisfied and expressed from maternal tenderness her apprehensions 246 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: of losing me. 247 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: His mother's concerns were valid. Mohammed ran into Baker again 248 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: at a tennis party and soon after became part of 249 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: Baker's entourage. Baker's unit was a European one, not an 250 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: Indian one, so Mohammed wasn't enlisting at this point. He 251 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: was basically a camp follower. Mohammed's mother was not happy 252 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: at all about this and tried to get her son 253 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: returned to her, but Mohammed refused to go. He wrote 254 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: of this quote, her disappointment smote my soul. She stood silent, 255 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: yet I could perceive some tears succeed each other, stealing 256 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: down her cheeks. My heart was wrung at length, seeing 257 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: my resolution fixed as fate. She dragged herself away and 258 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: returned home in a state of mind beyond my power 259 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: to describe. Mister Baker was much affected, and with his 260 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: brother officers endeavored to find immune for me. 261 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: Mohammed's mother sent his brother to try to convince Baker 262 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: to make the young Mohammed go back home, but Mohammed again. 263 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: Refused to go. 264 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 2: Baker offered his mother four hundred rupees to try to 265 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 2: smooth this, over, which she refused to take. Baker finally 266 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: promised to make sure that Mohammed would visit her as 267 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 2: often as possible, although that was only feasible while the 268 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 2: unit was still in the vicinity of where they were living. 269 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 2: Mohammed's own writing sounds excited to be part of Baker's retinue, 270 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 2: but also conflicted about the separation from his mother and 271 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 2: the grief that this caused her. He later said of Baker, 272 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: quote ingratitude to the revered memory of the best of characters, 273 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: I am obliged to acknowledge that I never found myself 274 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: so happy as with mister Baker, Insensible of the authority 275 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: of a superior I experienced the indulgence of a friend 276 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: and the want of a tender parent. Was entirely forgotten 277 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: in the humanity and affection of a benevolent stranger. But 278 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: he also describes the kindness of other officers as being instrumental, 279 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 2: to quote, dispelling the gloom which in some pensive moments 280 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: hung over my mind since the last tender interview. Once 281 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: Baker's unit moved away from Putna, his life involved months 282 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: and months of marching, covering hundreds of miles of territory, 283 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: mostly in what's now northeastern India. His accounts of his 284 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 2: experiences illustrate some of the complexities of being a Muslim 285 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 2: in India and attached to the Bengal Army. He was 286 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: still generally welcomed when he was able to visit his home, 287 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 2: but sometimes started to feel kind of like an outsider 288 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 2: because of how close he had become to this East 289 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: India Company, Army and the European soldiers. The reactions of 290 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: other Indians could also really vary, depending on things like 291 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: their religion, their caste, whether they supported or resisted the 292 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: expansion of British power and influence in India, and whatever 293 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 2: their past experiences were with the East India Company and 294 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: its armies. In seventeen seventy two, Baker's unit arrived in Kolkata, 295 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 2: about four hundred miles or six hundred forty kilometers southeast 296 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: of Mohammad's birthplace of Patna. This was Mohammed's first time 297 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: in the city, and he described it as having quote 298 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 2: a number of regular and spacious streets, public buildings, gardens, 299 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: walks and fish ponds, and from the best accounts, its 300 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 2: population has advanced to upwards of six hundred thousand souls. 301 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 2: He also described its markets, public buildings, and a bazaar 302 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 2: that was home to English, French, Dutch, Armenian, Abyssinian and 303 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 2: Jewish merchants and traders. Their initial stay in Kolkata was brief, 304 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 2: but five years later they returned following an eight hundred 305 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 2: mile march, this time to defend the city from the 306 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 2: possibility of a French invasion. By that point, England had 307 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 2: started fighting the Revolutionary War against its North American colonies 308 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 2: and the Anglo French War against France and its Spanish allies. 309 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 2: This time, Baker's unit stayed in Kolkatta for three years. 310 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 2: Because Mohammed was a camp follower rather than a soldier, 311 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: and because Baker was a quartermaster rather than in a 312 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: combat role, Mohammed's account of these years with the Bengal 313 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 2: Army doesn't include a lot of combat. One exception is 314 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 2: from seventeen eighty when he describes a victory by Colonel 315 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: William A. Bailey in the Second Anglo Mysore War. 316 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: This war was between the East India Company and the 317 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: Kingdom of Mysore, and while it ended in a return 318 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: to the status quo, this particular battle was a really 319 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: clear defeat, with Bailey's entire unit being captured or killed. Yeah. 320 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: Well, we can talk about a possible reason for this 321 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: weird discrepancy next time. The fact that they weren't usually 322 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 2: actively in combat did not mean they didn't face danger though. 323 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: As Quartermaster, Baker could be buying provisions from suppliers when 324 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: they were in cities and towns, but he could also 325 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 2: be commandeering or looting whatever it was that was needed 326 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: to keep the unit going. This was of course disruptive 327 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: and really damaging to the communities they were moving through, 328 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: and sometimes to the point that it endangered their ability 329 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: to stay alive. Baker and his unit often faced resistance 330 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,959 Speaker 2: as they did this, and at one point Muhammad was kidnapped. 331 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 2: In January of seventeen eighty one, Baker was promoted to 332 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 2: captain and placed in command of a battalion of Indian soldiers, 333 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 2: and at this point Muhammad officially became part of the 334 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: army rather than being a camp follower. We'll talk more 335 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: about that after a sponsor break. When De Muhammad was 336 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 2: a camp follower in Godfrey Evan Baker's retinue, he wasn't 337 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: officially part of the Bengal Army, but he did play 338 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: a progressively more important role in sort of Baker's household 339 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 2: and staff. Basically, as Baker rose through the ranks and 340 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 2: became more prominent, he was expected to have a bigger 341 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: staff supporting him, so Mohammed's importance within that staff also increased. 342 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 2: In turn, when Baker was promoted to captain, Mohammad became 343 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: an official provisioner in the Bengal Army. Like Baker, Mohammad 344 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 2: went through a series of promotions, although when he was 345 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 2: promoted to jemadar, which is equivalent to ensign, this hadn't 346 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 2: followed the regular rules of seniority, so he had some 347 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: misgivings about it. Eventually, he was promoted to subadar, equivalent 348 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: to lieutenant, the same rank that his father had held. 349 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: Due to the changes in each of their positions, Baker 350 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: and Muhammad were in more combat more often during this 351 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: phase of their careers that included fighting against the Maratha Empire. 352 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: As the East India Company continued to try to expand 353 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: its territory, at other points, they fought again people who 354 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: had previously been considered the company's allies or at least 355 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: relatively supportive of them. For example, one of the ways 356 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: that the East India Company tried to fund its incredibly 357 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: expensive army in India was to basically hire it out 358 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: to local leaders. Raja shit Singh had been making annual 359 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: payments for the purpose of keeping East India Company units 360 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: at the ready for his use. The company had demanded 361 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: that these payments be increased, and shit Singh had refused, 362 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: saying that that violated their earlier agreement and also that 363 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: he couldn't afford it. Governor General Warren Hastings deployed an 364 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: Indian company to arrest him, but for unclear reasons, they 365 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: weren't issued any ammunition, so they had no way to 366 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: defend themselves. When Shaitsng fought back, one hundred and seventy 367 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: four men were killed or seriously injured, and Mohammed's unit 368 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: was one of the ones that tried to regain control. 369 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: This was another example of the East India Company installing 370 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: puppet leaders to try to retain control of a region 371 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 1: and its people, in this case installing Raja Scheit Singh's 372 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: infant nephew in his place with a regent selected by 373 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: the company. 374 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 2: Baker and Mahammet's military service didn't last long after this. 375 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: In July of seventeen eighty two, Baker was ordered to 376 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 2: arrest three men who had been accused of murder. Allegedly, 377 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 2: he instead tried to seize an entire village and hold 378 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: it for ransom. This was not the first possible issue 379 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 2: during his military service. Before being promoted to captain, he 380 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 2: had also faced a court martial for insubordination. Baker was 381 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: recalled from service in July of seventeen eighty two, and 382 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 2: then he officially resigned on November twenty seventh, seventeen eighty three, 383 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: after about fifteen years of service. Mohammed's book about this 384 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 2: time with the Bengal Army does not mention these allegations 385 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 2: at all. 386 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: When Baker Mohammad decided to leave the Army as well. 387 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: In his words quote, Baker disclosed his intentions of going 388 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: to Europe, having a desire of seeing that part of 389 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: the world, and convinced that I should suffer much uneasiness 390 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: of mind in the absence of my best friend, I 391 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: resigned my commission of Subadar in order to accompany him. 392 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: Mohammed seems to have had some mixed feelings about leaving India, 393 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: but also did not want to be separated from the 394 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: man he had spent so many years working for. 395 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: We don't really have more personal reflections from either of 396 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: them about their decisions to leave the service. Even if 397 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 2: Baker had not been facing this extortion allegation, he might 398 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: have felt like it was becoming time to leave. A 399 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 2: lot of the wars that England had been fighting, both 400 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 2: in India and elsewhere, had either ended or they were 401 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 2: kind of in their final phases at that moment, and officers, 402 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: at least for the time being, weren't being promoted as 403 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: often as they had been. Also, although his promotion to 404 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: captain had been technically an upward move, he had gone 405 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 2: from working as a quartermaster to commanding battalions of Indian soldiers. 406 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: As quartermaster, he had had more opportunity for personal game, 407 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 2: both by conducting trading of his own and by sort 408 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: of turning a prophet on anything he provisioned. I'm not 409 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 2: saying this was a great thing for him to be doing, 410 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 2: but on paper that meantis was a promotion, but in 411 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: some ways it also could feel like a step down. 412 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: I also suspect it would be more work. P Yeah, 413 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: a little more effort. Baker and Mohammad spent about a 414 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: year in Kolkata, with Muhammad apparently taking a position in 415 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: Baker's household. They set sail for Cork, Ireland in January 416 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty four, and we'll get to what happened after 417 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: that next time. We'll also be talking more about the 418 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: book that he wrote about all of this, which we 419 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: read some selections from today. 420 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: As we nodded to at the top of the episode, 421 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 2: muhammad time in the Bengal Army illustrates so much about 422 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 2: British efforts to colonize India in the eighteenth century, like 423 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,479 Speaker 2: just how much Britain exploited and relied on the labor 424 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: of Indian soldiers during this whole process. And it's clear 425 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 2: that Mohammed's relationship to the East India Company could be 426 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 2: ambivalence or conflicted at the same time. Though, what we 427 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 2: know of his thoughts on this comes from a book 428 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: that he wrote for an English speaking European audience, specifically 429 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: people who might go to India. So he was writing 430 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: a book that he thought would be acceptable to that audience, 431 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 2: not one that necessarily reflected all of his thoughts and 432 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: feelings on what was happening. 433 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: We should also be clear that this book does not 434 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: touch on everything. For example, Mohammed's account of his time 435 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: in the East India Company does not touch on the 436 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: company's involvement in slavery at all, and overall, Mohammad's book 437 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: is a generally positive and pretty sanitized view of the 438 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: East India Company. And of course, the company continued to 439 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: exploy and colonize the Indian subcontinent for decades after he left, 440 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: until England took direct control in eighteen fifty eight, establishing 441 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: the British Raj, which lasted until Indian independence in nineteen 442 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: forty seven. We will get to Dean Muhammad's life in 443 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: Europe next time. Do you have a little bit of listener, 444 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: mail I? 445 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 2: Do I have two things that are both about Australia 446 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: the first. I am not sure how this person pronounces 447 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 2: their name. I think low key or locky maybe, but 448 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 2: wrote to say hey Tracy and Holly. Not sure if 449 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: you've heard, but in October, here in Australia, we are 450 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: holding a referendum on whether to change the Constitution to 451 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: establish an Aboriginal and Tourus Strait Islander Voice to Parliament. 452 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 2: Here's a link that can explain it better than I 453 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: ever can, and that link is a voice dot gov 454 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: dot au. As you can imagine, it's been split down 455 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: the middle since the day it was proposed. There's been 456 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: a strong no campaign, spreading misinformation and division among the country. 457 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: I thought perhaps that it would be a nice opportunity 458 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: for your podcast to do something on Australian Indigenous or 459 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: Australian history. Some things that come to mind are the 460 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: Black War slash Black Line, the attempted genocide of Aboriginal 461 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: people in Tasmania. The life of John Batman, founder of 462 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: Melbourne and participant in the Black War and namesake for 463 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: many Melbourne streets. Not the nicest person, creation of the 464 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: Constitution slash Federation of the Colonies, and founding and building 465 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 2: of a new Capital camera. I would also urge you 466 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: to listen to Professor Meghan Davis read out the Uluru 467 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: statement from the heart. It started the conversation about the 468 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 2: voice when it first came out back in twenty seventeen, 469 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: and that is at Ularustatement dot org slash the dash statement. 470 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, Flocky love the podcast, pet tax attached. So 471 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 2: we've got a dog and a cat. The is Elaine, 472 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 2: who is just making a very big eye kind of face, 473 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: and then we have a cat, George. Both of them 474 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: are demons according to the email. Because there's some great 475 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: pictures of this dog and cat, I love them. I 476 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: wanted to go ahead and read this because the vote 477 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 2: on this referendum is happening on October fourteenth. 478 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three. 479 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: Our calendar for the podcast is sort of already full 480 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: between now and then, so I wanted to go ahead 481 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 2: and read this email. Even though the topic suggestions here 482 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: aren't something that could happen before the vote on this 483 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: takes place. I did not know that any of that 484 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: was happening. Thank you so much for sending the note 485 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: about it. I'm sorry I don't know how to pronounce 486 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: your name correctly, and I did not send a note 487 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 2: to ask before we got in here to record today. 488 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: Our other quick Australian email is from another person whose 489 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 2: name I should have asked how to say I'm so sorry, Anita, 490 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 2: I think who wrote about silicosis and said thanks for 491 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 2: your great recent episode covering silicosis. At the end, you 492 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 2: discuss some of the industries that are still facing this disease. 493 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: Engineered stone used for bench tops, particularly when it is 494 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: dry cut, is causing a rise in silicosis. Australia is 495 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 2: looking at banning these bench tops due to the risk. 496 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 2: I'm hoping this band gets implemented soon. And then we 497 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: also have pictures of two tuxedo cats, Ziggy and Mooney 498 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 2: Pees and some additional Australian themed topic suggestions. I think 499 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: the word bench is being used here in the way 500 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 2: that Holly and I would say counter, so like these 501 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: are countertops for kitchens and bathrooms and things. Did not 502 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: know that was happening in Australia either, So thank you 503 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 2: so much for both of these emails. I love to 504 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 2: hear from folks in Australia. It's an area whose history. 505 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 2: I think we don't cover quiet as often as maybe 506 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: you would like, because often there is an enormous cultural context, 507 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: which is as is obvious from the fact that I 508 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: had nothing, no idea of what was going on either 509 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 2: of these two emails, Like, we don't necessarily know. Sometimes 510 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 2: it feels like we miss stuff because we just that's 511 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: not our background that we have as much familiarity with. 512 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 2: So thank you so much to both of you for 513 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: both of those emails. I wish I had sent a 514 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 2: note back to say, Hey, can you tell me how 515 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 2: you pronounce your name before I try to do that 516 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: on the air. If you would like to send us 517 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 2: a note about this or any of the podcasts, we're 518 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 2: at history Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. We have some 519 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: social media, at least theoretically on Facebook and Instagram and 520 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: the thing that's called x Now. You can subscribe to 521 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: our show on the iHeartRadio app and wherever else you 522 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 2: like to get podcasts. Stuff you missed in History Class 523 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: is a production of iHeartRadio. 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