WEBVTT - Debbie Harry 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:11.080 What would be your last meal? Jeez ah mm hmm ah, Peter, 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:19.400 I love you said that like a revelation. It's kind 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:22.040 of what I imagine Blondie eating, Like, let's go get 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.239 a slice, like in between the branding cool songs, Let's 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.640 get a slice like that's let's say that's actually perfect. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.920 That's that's it. Hello, I'm Mini Driver. Welcome to the 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:38.280 premiere of Many Questions, Season two. I'm so glad you're here, 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.280 and if you're new to this show, let me fill 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.600 you in. I've always loved Pruce's questionnaire. It was originally 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.400 a nineteenth century parlor game where players would ask each 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.000 other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the other player's 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.720 true nature. It's just the scientific method really. In asking 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.360 different people the same set of questions, you can make 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.280 observations about which truths appeared to be universal. I love 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.720 this discipline, and it made me wonder, what if these 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.000 questions were just the jumping off point, what greater depths 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.399 would be revealed if I asked these questions as conversation 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:18.000 starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all these different disciplines. 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:20.759 So I started this podcast because I wanted to put 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.319 together a kind of cultural anthology where I invite you 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.600 to explore the questions I think we've all been asking 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.559 ourselves lately. How are we similar? How are we individual? 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:36.479 Which commonalities surprise us? And why? So? I adapted prus 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.200 questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that I 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.280 personally think a pertinent to a person's story. They are 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.560 when and where were you happiest? What is the quality 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.640 you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.320 defines love for you? What question would you most like answered, 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.920 What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most? 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.680 What would be your last meal? And can you tell 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.080 me some thing in your life that's grown out of 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:06.639 a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group of really 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.519 remarkable people, ones that I am honored and humbled to 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:12.800 have had the chance to engage with. You may not 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.160 hear their answers to all seven of these questions. We've 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.799 whittled it down to which questions felt closest to their 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.399 experience or the most surprising, or created the most fertile 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.079 ground to connect. And I'm starting season two with legendary 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.480 lead singer of the band Blondie Debbie Harry. We don't 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.680 usually use one of the seven questions as the episode opening, 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.640 but because Debbie is such a rule breaker, I figured 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.560 it was only right to break a rule in her episode. 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.640 I've always felt like Blondie and the Ramones and the 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.960 New York Dolls were this super creative scream in the 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.680 face of corporate rock. And Debbie herself has always felt 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.520 to me to be part of the vanguard of cultural engagement. 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.880 She is a elective soul and a straight shooter of 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.760 the best New Jersey variety. And as usual, it was 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.640 a privilege to have spoken with a person who has 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:15.080 helped shake the cultural conversation so specifically. So the first 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:21.240 question is where and when were you happiest. Oh, well, 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.080 I think that I was happiest in the early days 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.320 of Blondie. I probably didn't really know how happy I was, 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.320 but I was very happy. It was a brave new world, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:39.360 and I was struggling, you know, climbing and learning and working, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.280 and it was quite of wonderful. And the reason I 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.520 know this is because when they flew the planes into 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.520 the Twin Towers, I went through the series of anger, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.640 of grief, of this and of that, and one day, 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:55.560 I was just sort of laying there on the couch 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.080 and I thought, oh my god, I wish it was 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.640 the seventies again, and the tremendous feeling came over me 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.960 about how that was a great, wonderful time for me. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.440 So I look at that as being happy. Do you 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.840 think it's because you guys were part of that van 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.240 god of that New York scene, that whole music movement 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.640 that happened. Were you aware of just being at the 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.719 forefront of something and creating it or were you just 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.120 too busy being in that whole music scene, in the 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.919 club scene that you didn't realize that you were at 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.359 the forefront. Oh, I don't think we've thought of ourselves 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.719 as being at the forefront. You know, it was a 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.760 very creative period for us, and we were Dare Devils, 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.000 and you know, we thought that we were Dare Devils. 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.880 I don't know. The scene was very energetic and there 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.360 was really nothing of value. None of us had record 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.880 deals or anything like that. We're all scrambling and scuttling 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:51.200 around like, you know, a little vermin. But you know, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.240 it was very creative. So we fed off each other's 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.599 creativity and it was you know, this sort of one 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.599 optmanship as much as you know, we could figure out 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.479 how to do and it was a spirited I guess 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.960 is the best way, you know how people do in 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.280 music today, there are so many collaborations, like you'll have 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.679 all these people doing guest vocals on other people's tracks. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.080 Was there a lot of collaboration that that we didn't 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.120 necessarily get to hear that wasn't necessarily recorded, Like do 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.080 you remember playing and writing or recording with other people 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.200 that it was never really for public consumption. The time 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.960 that I was thinking, I was really kind of before 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:30.080 we do any recording, serious recording. I mean later on 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.320 I sang on something of the Ramones. I think I'm 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.000 probably the only the only female to saying on a 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.000 Ramon's record. Then I did something with d D when 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:46.800 DD did his rap Invasion. I remember I am definitely 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.680 going to listen to that tonight, D D King D 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.880 D King. So there was some of that, but that 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.000 that sort of came around later. But I think in 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.760 the early days people were just maybe swapping back and 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:04.080 forth musician and more than performing officially. Um you know, 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.680 like for a while, television's current bass player Fred Smith 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.920 was my bass player, you know, and then Richard Hell 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.960 broke off and formed the void OIDs and Walter Lore 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.200 was playing with the void OIDs, or when he was 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.000 playing with Johnny Thunders. You know, there was sort of 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.159 this period of time when people were establishing who they were. 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.600 So I think that that there's sort of an era 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.880 that nobody really knows about that much. It was never 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.280 officially recorded, maybe it was or something, I don't know. 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.279 Do you think that it was freedom from any kind 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.279 of pressure that he was just creating in a vacuum 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.800 outside of like a record label expectation or numbers or 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.480 money or anything, that that was really sort of unadulterated happiness, 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:53.320 for you is sort of unencumbered creativity. Yeah. I mean 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.520 we all had the goals and high aspirations of playing 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.680 for thousands and thousands in arenas, and of course, you know, 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:04.080 any buddy who joins a rock band has that dream. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.600 You know, that that's really where they all want to go. 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.680 Very few want to just stay in the clubs. I've 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:14.680 always felt out was the underpinnings of it all. So 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:20.280 what relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? My 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:25.960 relationship with Chris is definitely a big big love in 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:31.720 my life Chris Stein, guitarist and Blondie. Yeah. Yeah, It's 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:36.800 gone through so many different stages and different kinds of love. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.640 So I would say that, you know, since I've had 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:44.320 intimacy with him and working relationship and a great friendship 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.679 for all these years, I think he's the only person 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.360 in my life that I can honestly say that about. Well, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.040 that you basically went through the scope of a whole 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.560 relationship with one person. It is kind of amazing. It's 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.160 hard to be friends with excellent us. You have to 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.720 work on it. You know, it's work, and I mean 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.760 having a great love relationship is work and sacrifice and 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.560 being flexible. And that's really what happens, isn't it did 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.080 do all of the different permutations of love? Did that 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:20.080 always feed the kind of creative cabal that you guys had, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.760 even if you guys were not getting along, Did it 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.840 always somehow feed the creativity? Well, we always had a 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:31.360 very easy communication with one another. I always knew what 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.600 he was saying. I always understood him. He of course 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:39.720 is capable of understanding anything. I mean, he's really really 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:44.960 smart person. So I think that, as you know, in acting, 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.880 it's about listening and hearing. We could hear each other. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.960 That was a big part of it from the very beginning. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.280 Like how old you and you met him? Oh I 0:08:54.320 --> 0:09:00.680 was old. I was twenty seven seven. Yeah, oh I 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:05.120 love seven. I loved Wow, you were twenty seven when 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.080 you met him, and like we're right from the offset 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.920 was immediate, like not just like immediately falling in love, 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.480 but an immediate recognition that this person was was kind 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.720 of it. No, we were sort of friends before we 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:21.240 got intimate, and we met through music. He came to 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:25.679 one of my very early shows, and then within the 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:30.080 next two weeks he replaced one of our backing musicians, 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.720 and then you know, we worked together in that format 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.000 for a while, and then we went off on our 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.559 own because we wanted to do something that was less 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.840 cabaret and more rock. That was that I love it, 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.640 and that was that, Like it's an iconic relationship, and 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.200 that was that, Like Parallel Lines was the first record 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.200 I ever bought with my own money when I was 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.600 nine years old. And the fact that your friendship has 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:57.720 lasted through the whole course of my life, like that 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.960 makes me feel that makes me feel good about the world. 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.480 Thank you. That's very nice, it's very generous. Well, it's 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.679 pretty true. There's only one record that you buy first, 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.440 like it stays in your brain and your heart. I'm 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:15.120 so old that it's it was forty five. It was 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.600 a single. What wasn't it? Uh, that's Domino. I think 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.240 Blueberry Hill or something like that. But I used to 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.440 buy forty five as well. Yeah, forty five was fun 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:26.760 an LP, like you had to save up for an 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:31.720 LP right in England, that's what an album was going. Okay, yeah, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.880 what quality do you like least about yourself? Oh? Well, 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:53.199 I've been working on that I have. It's funny you 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:57.520 should ask that, you know. I think I used to 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.800 if I was backed up again into the wall or 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.880 something and I felt threatened or paranoid or afraid, I 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.400 would react with anger and it was an inappropriate reaction. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.880 And so I try not to do that anymore. I'm 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.520 very very aware of it, and I guess I've become 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.000 too much of an adult. But I mean I do 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:24.080 have moments of terrible temper, but not so not so 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.120 unreasonable as it once was. Would it be an emotional 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.880 situation like of somebody backing you into a corner like 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:36.400 as opposed to literally, that's what would illicit anger. Yes, sometimes, 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.920 and I guess you know, anger and fear. You can 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.080 respond to that in so many ways, so many different ways. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.400 You know that it does inhibit you. I think that's 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.480 really what upsets me about it is that it closes 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:54.000 me down, and I'd rather not be closed down. Yeah, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:55.920 that is the thing that comes with having lived a 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.559 little bit. It's going the reaction that feels good in 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.640 the moment actually a long term effect. It's so much 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:12.080 worse for you me us. Yeah. Yeah, So what person, place, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:17.880 or experience most altered your life. Well, immediately I think 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.640 of something as a small child, But I think that's 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.439 that's a fantasy, you know. I don't think there is 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.960 one thing. It's always like a chain of events for me. 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.959 I first started as a backup singer in the sixties 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.640 with a friend from high school's husband, and I sort 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.240 of got bitten. I was terribly shy and was very 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.360 happy to be a backup singer and marveled at people 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.600 like Janis Joplin and Grace Slick, and you know, I 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.760 was just, oh my god, how can they do it? 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.120 How do they do it? But then you know, I 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.040 was disappointed. You're learning about human nature all the time, 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.720 and I was such an idealist, you know, kind of dummy, 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:05.640 and so I sort of had a taste of business 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.679 in the arts and I didn't like it. I didn't 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.400 like it, and so I left it and I did 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.160 other things for a while. But I felt like I 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.199 was haunted because I couldn't get it out of my mind. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.120 So then, do you remember the moment that you really 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.560 decided to come back and focus on music for yourself. 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:28.680 I approached someone who I knew, not very well, but 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.320 I knew they were on the scene. I was a 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.280 follower of the New York Dolls at the time, and 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.680 I was living in New Jersey. I was helping my 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.960 mother who was seriously ill. You know. I was hanging 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.480 around going to these shows at the Mercer Arts Center, 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.440 and I love the Dolls and everything you know that 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.040 they represented in it. And many of the people who 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:53.880 would go to those shows, you know, I sort of 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.360 built up a friendship with So I ran into one 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.280 of those people and I said to her, what's going on, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.720 what are you up to? And she said, oh, I 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.040 have a band, and I said, oh great, what's it called? 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.720 She said, Pure garbage and I said, oh, great name, 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.720 really really great name. She said, oh, and Hollywood lawns 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.920 in it. And I said, oh good. That must be 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.840 so much fun. And so I said, let me know, 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.880 give me your number, let me know the next time 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.320 you do a show. So I never heard from her, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.360 and I called her finally and said, well, when is 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.960 the show? She said, oh, we broke up. I said, oh, well, 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.640 let's form a band of our own. You and me, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.120 no way. Yeah. What was the name of that band? 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.520 The still Lettos. Oh that's a good name. Yeah, that's 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.120 a really good name. Wow, she still have that music? 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:55.680 H I do. Actually, somebody found a recording recently and 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.200 they're actually going to do something with it. I was amazed. 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.600 It's not the great fidelity or you know, quality, but 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.040 it's live. It's good, you know, it's like it has 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.480 that quality. Oh my god. So was it recorded live 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.400 in a venue or in the studio? Had to be 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.680 a venue. I don't remember being in a studio. Well, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.080 I couldn't swear to anything. Don't ask me to swear anything, 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:23.040 don't anything. That's pretty cool, I mean, god, I'd love 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:27.200 to hear that. That's amazing. Well, I remember the songs 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.600 that you wrote and where you're playing guitar. I guess, yeah, 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.840 you were really sincere and saying stuff. You know, you 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.520 were saying things and you were feeling things. It was obvious. 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.440 I honestly think that's pretty much all there is to 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.400 feel stuff. And if you're a creative person and you 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.480 make things, you put that into what you do. And 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.720 it's never going to be for everybody, but I for 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.600 always felt like that was my job was to do 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.160 that and you know, take the embarrassment if it doesn't 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.480 work out, but never really let that stop you, right, 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.280 And that's that's key, that word, and that meant Yeah, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.040 that's a very big part of what holds people back. 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:19.960 You get embarrassed. So well, yeah, so what question would 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.880 you most like answered? Oh? God, I think that you 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.680 know as a former that I'm always learning, I'm always learning. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.240 It must be the same for you. Yeah, it definitely is. 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.240 I mean, I'm astonished at how much there is to 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.520 keep on learning. I have a thirteen year old son 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.200 and we have this similar experience. He plays the piano 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.240 and he kind of writes music and I did when 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.920 I was really young, and I remember sobbing to my 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.120 mother and my son didn't come sobbing to me, but 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:48.560 he was really glum one day and I was like, 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.920 what's up, and he was like, just you know, I 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:52.520 was just playing the piano and I was just like 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.400 writing a song. I just I just saw it like 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.640 by the time I've grown up, like there's going to 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.320 be no music left to ride. I was like, dude, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.960 I had the same thought. I wept about it, like 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.280 all the songs are going to get written, And I said, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.919 I've got to tell you, like, if anything, that become 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.919 more songs to write, Like there's more to learn and 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.920 there's more to do. The older I've gotten, I can't 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.959 believe how much I missed when I was younger. I 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:21.160 can't believe how much I thought I knew everything very true. 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.080 When you guys are writing songs, was an organic process 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.800 of you'd sit down to write a record or did 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.440 all these songs kind of come out of different situations 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.800 for all of you? Like how was that process when 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.080 you guys would write just what you said, you know, 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.720 out of experience and out of you know, situations, and 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.719 some grain of truth or absurdity you know, would strike you. 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.560 And I was always making snippets you know, little little 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.119 jots of things. And I still do that, you know, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.639 little ideas notes to myself, and then I will organize 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.239 them and come up with some music or you know, 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.240 when we start working together as if they and in sessions, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.720 you know, and trying to create new material. But it 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.080 works in all different ways for me. I'm sure it 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.040 does for you. Yeah. I think it's just about paying attention, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.439 whether it's a phrase of music, or whether it's a line, 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.160 or whether it's something someone says or something that you see. 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.199 I think recording it is the most important thing. Like 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.000 I think it's the only thing I like about my 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.359 phone is that I can record a voice note kind 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.720 of wherever I am. It becomes some weird college journal. 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.000 Did you contribute to your college today? Yeah? You know 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.280 what I did? I did good. I wrote a book 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.080 and I worked not just on the writing of it, 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.080 but the design of like what the book covers going 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.840 to look like and what that means. And today was 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.800 sort of looking at it and going, is anything ever 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:48.160 really done? I could carry on writing this book literally 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.439 for fucking ever. I could carry on tinkering with the 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.200 phone and the color and the picture. It doesn't ever 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.919 really end, Did you feel that way about records that 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:58.960 like it's like, okay, I guess we should stop. But 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.280 you could actually carry a roam forever if left to 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.680 your own devices. Yes, it's a danger zone for sure. 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.560 Sometimes you just have to back away from the table, 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.960 drop your fork, walk away, walk away, walk away from 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.520 the desk. I know, yeah, I know. But I do 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.560 try and do something every single day to add to 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.119 the college. It's good for my mental health, particularly in 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.359 these days, which is still a little bit more isolated 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.000 than perhaps they used to be. Do you do you 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.399 try and do something every day? Well, what I do 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.520 as I sort of closed myself up in the car 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.840 and driving in my little sound booth on wheels. I'm 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.800 very careful not to you know, because you're not supposed 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.280 to use your phone, you know, when you're driving. But 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.679 I have to make notes, so it's always sort of 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.680 sitting there on my thigh, you know, I'm always pushing 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:52.840 the button. You know, something that happens to me a lot. 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.359 I guess why I'm out with people, if I'm at 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.280 her show or something, and that's sometimes very surprising that 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.400 it would be in the midst of all this sort 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.679 of you know, noise and mayhem and something will you know, 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.600 sort of pop into my head and I'll try to 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.159 record that or scribble it down somewhere. Is there anyone 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.960 that you listen to you particularly? You know, I am 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.360 not a listener except when I'm in the car driving 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.639 and I just cruise and cruise and listened to, you know, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.240 all different things. I like to see what's on top ten. 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:26.760 I like to know what kisses playing. I like to 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.199 listen to grunge. I like to listen to rap. But 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.919 I mean, you wouldn't think that I'm a person who 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.320 would really love Rage against the Machine, but I do. 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.240 I'm actually incredibly glad to know that. But rage against 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.240 the machine, I'm really interested in what people, particularly musicians, like, 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.679 what they listened to. I like all kinds of music. 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.040 Oddly enough, I have to admit it. When I'm in 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.359 the house, I don't have music on. I am not 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:56.280 the person who puts music on in the background. That's 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:58.560 the only time that I'm sort of pinned down is 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.000 when I'm in the cars. That's my that's my listening room, 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:09.159 and I love it. I like that. So in your life, 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.440 can you tell me about something that has grown out 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:16.880 of a personal disaster. I think in terms of the industry, 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:21.280 we all go through these rude awakenings, shall we say, 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.159 and learning experiences that really, you know, shape our sense 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:31.920 of worth and our sense of reality, and in actual 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.840 fact that made me have to plant myself down and say, 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:40.920 regardless of this, I will persevere. I've always felt it's 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.400 really good to have to push up against something. Yeah, 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.959 I felt that way too from the very beginning, because 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:49.800 you know, having to demand a reaction from an audience 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.920 is really really important, and it just makes you work harder. Yeah, 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:59.520 exactly exactly. Insisting it's funny insisting a lot of women 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:03.000 were not raised to insist on people's attention. Where actually 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:04.960 told that it's a very bad thing for a woman 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.479 to insist on people's attention. I think, yeah, act like 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:14.680 a lady exactly exactly what exactly what kind of lady 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.320 are you looking for? It's tricky because you're such an 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:22.399 influential woman at that moment in time, Like, did you 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:26.720 feel at a disadvantage being a woman in the industry. 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:31.480 I've always felt that it was an idea whose time 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.439 had come, and I felt that why Also about the 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:39.800 gay scene, you know that the time had come for 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.119 this to change. You know, I felt that way about 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.439 women in rock or whatever you want to call it. 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:46.879 You say that there were situations where you kind of 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.280 have to find yourself worth and that you were pushing 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.760 up against. Was that like within the industry? Yeah, there 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.320 was really very little else to go, you know, there 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:57.159 was nowhere else to go with it because it was 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:01.800 always predicated on the next new thing. I think that 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.879 the boy said really used up, but used up there 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.840 a lot of time. Well, I think they have explored 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.680 a lot. I mean there were always great stars who 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:15.480 did exploration, like David Bowie and people like that, and 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:18.879 there are still as part of the survival of the 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:22.920 industry really is that it's it's the newest, it's the newest, 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:26.879 it's the greatest, it's the latest, it's something fresh, and 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.159 and that can be problematic that, you know, it's like 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:33.639 you get this sort of five year plan of possibility. 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:36.359 It's the same in Hollywood. It's always like the youngest 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:38.680 and the freshest and the newest. Right, it becomes so 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:42.119 myopic because it's just about that particular industry as opposed 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.359 to being an artist in general, and that constantly evolving 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:47.639