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Speaker 1: What would be your last meal? Jeez ah mm hmm ah, Peter,

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Speaker 1: I love you said that like a revelation. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of what I imagine Blondie eating, Like, let's go get

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Speaker 1: a slice, like in between the branding cool songs, Let's

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Speaker 1: get a slice like that's let's say that's actually perfect.

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Speaker 1: That's that's it. Hello, I'm Mini Driver. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: premiere of Many Questions, Season two. I'm so glad you're here,

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Speaker 1: and if you're new to this show, let me fill

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Speaker 1: you in. I've always loved Pruce's questionnaire. It was originally

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Speaker 1: a nineteenth century parlor game where players would ask each

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Speaker 1: other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the other player's

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Speaker 1: true nature. It's just the scientific method really. In asking

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Speaker 1: different people the same set of questions, you can make

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Speaker 1: observations about which truths appeared to be universal. I love

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Speaker 1: this discipline, and it made me wonder, what if these

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Speaker 1: questions were just the jumping off point, what greater depths

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Speaker 1: would be revealed if I asked these questions as conversation

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Speaker 1: starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all these different disciplines.

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Speaker 1: So I started this podcast because I wanted to put

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Speaker 1: together a kind of cultural anthology where I invite you

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Speaker 1: to explore the questions I think we've all been asking

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Speaker 1: ourselves lately. How are we similar? How are we individual?

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Speaker 1: Which commonalities surprise us? And why? So? I adapted prus

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Speaker 1: questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that I

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Speaker 1: personally think a pertinent to a person's story. They are

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Speaker 1: when and where were you happiest? What is the quality

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Speaker 1: you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized,

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Speaker 1: defines love for you? What question would you most like answered,

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Speaker 1: What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most?

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Speaker 1: What would be your last meal? And can you tell

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Speaker 1: me some thing in your life that's grown out of

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Speaker 1: a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group of really

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Speaker 1: remarkable people, ones that I am honored and humbled to

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Speaker 1: have had the chance to engage with. You may not

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Speaker 1: hear their answers to all seven of these questions. We've

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Speaker 1: whittled it down to which questions felt closest to their

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Speaker 1: experience or the most surprising, or created the most fertile

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Speaker 1: ground to connect. And I'm starting season two with legendary

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Speaker 1: lead singer of the band Blondie Debbie Harry. We don't

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Speaker 1: usually use one of the seven questions as the episode opening,

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Speaker 1: but because Debbie is such a rule breaker, I figured

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Speaker 1: it was only right to break a rule in her episode.

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Speaker 1: I've always felt like Blondie and the Ramones and the

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Speaker 1: New York Dolls were this super creative scream in the

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Speaker 1: face of corporate rock. And Debbie herself has always felt

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Speaker 1: to me to be part of the vanguard of cultural engagement.

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Speaker 1: She is a elective soul and a straight shooter of

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Speaker 1: the best New Jersey variety. And as usual, it was

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Speaker 1: a privilege to have spoken with a person who has

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Speaker 1: helped shake the cultural conversation so specifically. So the first

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Speaker 1: question is where and when were you happiest. Oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I think that I was happiest in the early days

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Speaker 1: of Blondie. I probably didn't really know how happy I was,

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Speaker 1: but I was very happy. It was a brave new world,

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Speaker 1: and I was struggling, you know, climbing and learning and working,

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Speaker 1: and it was quite of wonderful. And the reason I

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Speaker 1: know this is because when they flew the planes into

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Speaker 1: the Twin Towers, I went through the series of anger,

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Speaker 1: of grief, of this and of that, and one day,

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Speaker 1: I was just sort of laying there on the couch

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Speaker 1: and I thought, oh my god, I wish it was

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Speaker 1: the seventies again, and the tremendous feeling came over me

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Speaker 1: about how that was a great, wonderful time for me.

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Speaker 1: So I look at that as being happy. Do you

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Speaker 1: think it's because you guys were part of that van

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Speaker 1: god of that New York scene, that whole music movement

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Speaker 1: that happened. Were you aware of just being at the

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Speaker 1: forefront of something and creating it or were you just

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Speaker 1: too busy being in that whole music scene, in the

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Speaker 1: club scene that you didn't realize that you were at

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Speaker 1: the forefront. Oh, I don't think we've thought of ourselves

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Speaker 1: as being at the forefront. You know, it was a

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Speaker 1: very creative period for us, and we were Dare Devils,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we thought that we were Dare Devils.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. The scene was very energetic and there

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Speaker 1: was really nothing of value. None of us had record

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Speaker 1: deals or anything like that. We're all scrambling and scuttling

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Speaker 1: around like, you know, a little vermin. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it was very creative. So we fed off each other's

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Speaker 1: creativity and it was you know, this sort of one

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Speaker 1: optmanship as much as you know, we could figure out

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Speaker 1: how to do and it was a spirited I guess

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Speaker 1: is the best way, you know how people do in

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Speaker 1: music today, there are so many collaborations, like you'll have

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Speaker 1: all these people doing guest vocals on other people's tracks.

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Speaker 1: Was there a lot of collaboration that that we didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily get to hear that wasn't necessarily recorded, Like do

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Speaker 1: you remember playing and writing or recording with other people

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Speaker 1: that it was never really for public consumption. The time

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Speaker 1: that I was thinking, I was really kind of before

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Speaker 1: we do any recording, serious recording. I mean later on

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Speaker 1: I sang on something of the Ramones. I think I'm

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Speaker 1: probably the only the only female to saying on a

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Speaker 1: Ramon's record. Then I did something with d D when

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Speaker 1: DD did his rap Invasion. I remember I am definitely

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Speaker 1: going to listen to that tonight, D D King D

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Speaker 1: D King. So there was some of that, but that

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Speaker 1: that sort of came around later. But I think in

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Speaker 1: the early days people were just maybe swapping back and

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Speaker 1: forth musician and more than performing officially. Um you know,

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Speaker 1: like for a while, television's current bass player Fred Smith

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Speaker 1: was my bass player, you know, and then Richard Hell

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Speaker 1: broke off and formed the void OIDs and Walter Lore

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Speaker 1: was playing with the void OIDs, or when he was

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Speaker 1: playing with Johnny Thunders. You know, there was sort of

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Speaker 1: this period of time when people were establishing who they were.

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Speaker 1: So I think that that there's sort of an era

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Speaker 1: that nobody really knows about that much. It was never

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Speaker 1: officially recorded, maybe it was or something, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that it was freedom from any kind

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Speaker 1: of pressure that he was just creating in a vacuum

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Speaker 1: outside of like a record label expectation or numbers or

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Speaker 1: money or anything, that that was really sort of unadulterated happiness,

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Speaker 1: for you is sort of unencumbered creativity. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: we all had the goals and high aspirations of playing

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Speaker 1: for thousands and thousands in arenas, and of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: any buddy who joins a rock band has that dream.

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Speaker 1: You know, that that's really where they all want to go.

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Speaker 1: Very few want to just stay in the clubs. I've

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Speaker 1: always felt out was the underpinnings of it all. So

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Speaker 1: what relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? My

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Speaker 1: relationship with Chris is definitely a big big love in

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Speaker 1: my life Chris Stein, guitarist and Blondie. Yeah. Yeah, It's

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Speaker 1: gone through so many different stages and different kinds of love.

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Speaker 1: So I would say that, you know, since I've had

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Speaker 1: intimacy with him and working relationship and a great friendship

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Speaker 1: for all these years, I think he's the only person

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Speaker 1: in my life that I can honestly say that about. Well,

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Speaker 1: that you basically went through the scope of a whole

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Speaker 1: relationship with one person. It is kind of amazing. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to be friends with excellent us. You have to

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Speaker 1: work on it. You know, it's work, and I mean

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Speaker 1: having a great love relationship is work and sacrifice and

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Speaker 1: being flexible. And that's really what happens, isn't it did

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Speaker 1: do all of the different permutations of love? Did that

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Speaker 1: always feed the kind of creative cabal that you guys had,

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Speaker 1: even if you guys were not getting along, Did it

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Speaker 1: always somehow feed the creativity? Well, we always had a

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Speaker 1: very easy communication with one another. I always knew what

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Speaker 1: he was saying. I always understood him. He of course

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Speaker 1: is capable of understanding anything. I mean, he's really really

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Speaker 1: smart person. So I think that, as you know, in acting,

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Speaker 1: it's about listening and hearing. We could hear each other.

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Speaker 1: That was a big part of it from the very beginning.

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Speaker 1: Like how old you and you met him? Oh I

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Speaker 1: was old. I was twenty seven seven. Yeah, oh I

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Speaker 1: love seven. I loved Wow, you were twenty seven when

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Speaker 1: you met him, and like we're right from the offset

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Speaker 1: was immediate, like not just like immediately falling in love,

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Speaker 1: but an immediate recognition that this person was was kind

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Speaker 1: of it. No, we were sort of friends before we

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Speaker 1: got intimate, and we met through music. He came to

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Speaker 1: one of my very early shows, and then within the

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Speaker 1: next two weeks he replaced one of our backing musicians,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, we worked together in that format

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Speaker 1: for a while, and then we went off on our

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Speaker 1: own because we wanted to do something that was less

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Speaker 1: cabaret and more rock. That was that I love it,

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Speaker 1: and that was that, Like it's an iconic relationship, and

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Speaker 1: that was that, Like Parallel Lines was the first record

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Speaker 1: I ever bought with my own money when I was

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Speaker 1: nine years old. And the fact that your friendship has

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Speaker 1: lasted through the whole course of my life, like that

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Speaker 1: makes me feel that makes me feel good about the world.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. That's very nice, it's very generous. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty true. There's only one record that you buy first,

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Speaker 1: like it stays in your brain and your heart. I'm

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Speaker 1: so old that it's it was forty five. It was

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Speaker 1: a single. What wasn't it? Uh, that's Domino. I think

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Speaker 1: Blueberry Hill or something like that. But I used to

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Speaker 1: buy forty five as well. Yeah, forty five was fun

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Speaker 1: an LP, like you had to save up for an

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Speaker 1: LP right in England, that's what an album was going. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what quality do you like least about yourself? Oh? Well,

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Speaker 1: I've been working on that I have. It's funny you

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Speaker 1: should ask that, you know. I think I used to

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Speaker 1: if I was backed up again into the wall or

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Speaker 1: something and I felt threatened or paranoid or afraid, I

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Speaker 1: would react with anger and it was an inappropriate reaction.

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Speaker 1: And so I try not to do that anymore. I'm

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Speaker 1: very very aware of it, and I guess I've become

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Speaker 1: too much of an adult. But I mean I do

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Speaker 1: have moments of terrible temper, but not so not so

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Speaker 1: unreasonable as it once was. Would it be an emotional

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Speaker 1: situation like of somebody backing you into a corner like

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Speaker 1: as opposed to literally, that's what would illicit anger. Yes, sometimes,

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Speaker 1: and I guess you know, anger and fear. You can

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Speaker 1: respond to that in so many ways, so many different ways.

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Speaker 1: You know that it does inhibit you. I think that's

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Speaker 1: really what upsets me about it is that it closes

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Speaker 1: me down, and I'd rather not be closed down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is the thing that comes with having lived a

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Speaker 1: little bit. It's going the reaction that feels good in

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Speaker 1: the moment actually a long term effect. It's so much

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Speaker 1: worse for you me us. Yeah. Yeah, So what person, place,

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Speaker 1: or experience most altered your life. Well, immediately I think

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Speaker 1: of something as a small child, But I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's a fantasy, you know. I don't think there is

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Speaker 1: one thing. It's always like a chain of events for me.

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Speaker 1: I first started as a backup singer in the sixties

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Speaker 1: with a friend from high school's husband, and I sort

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Speaker 1: of got bitten. I was terribly shy and was very

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Speaker 1: happy to be a backup singer and marveled at people

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Speaker 1: like Janis Joplin and Grace Slick, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: was just, oh my god, how can they do it?

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Speaker 1: How do they do it? But then you know, I

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Speaker 1: was disappointed. You're learning about human nature all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I was such an idealist, you know, kind of dummy,

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Speaker 1: and so I sort of had a taste of business

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Speaker 1: in the arts and I didn't like it. I didn't

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Speaker 1: like it, and so I left it and I did

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Speaker 1: other things for a while. But I felt like I

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Speaker 1: was haunted because I couldn't get it out of my mind.

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Speaker 1: So then, do you remember the moment that you really

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Speaker 1: decided to come back and focus on music for yourself.

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Speaker 1: I approached someone who I knew, not very well, but

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Speaker 1: I knew they were on the scene. I was a

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Speaker 1: follower of the New York Dolls at the time, and

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Speaker 1: I was living in New Jersey. I was helping my

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Speaker 1: mother who was seriously ill. You know. I was hanging

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Speaker 1: around going to these shows at the Mercer Arts Center,

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Speaker 1: and I love the Dolls and everything you know that

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Speaker 1: they represented in it. And many of the people who

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Speaker 1: would go to those shows, you know, I sort of

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Speaker 1: built up a friendship with So I ran into one

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Speaker 1: of those people and I said to her, what's going on,

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Speaker 1: what are you up to? And she said, oh, I

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Speaker 1: have a band, and I said, oh great, what's it called?

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Speaker 1: She said, Pure garbage and I said, oh, great name,

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Speaker 1: really really great name. She said, oh, and Hollywood lawns

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Speaker 1: in it. And I said, oh good. That must be

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Speaker 1: so much fun. And so I said, let me know,

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Speaker 1: give me your number, let me know the next time

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Speaker 1: you do a show. So I never heard from her,

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Speaker 1: and I called her finally and said, well, when is

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Speaker 1: the show? She said, oh, we broke up. I said, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: let's form a band of our own. You and me,

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Speaker 1: no way. Yeah. What was the name of that band?

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Speaker 1: The still Lettos. Oh that's a good name. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a really good name. Wow, she still have that music?

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Speaker 1: H I do. Actually, somebody found a recording recently and

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Speaker 1: they're actually going to do something with it. I was amazed.

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Speaker 1: It's not the great fidelity or you know, quality, but

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Speaker 1: it's live. It's good, you know, it's like it has

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Speaker 1: that quality. Oh my god. So was it recorded live

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Speaker 1: in a venue or in the studio? Had to be

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Speaker 1: a venue. I don't remember being in a studio. Well,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't swear to anything. Don't ask me to swear anything,

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Speaker 1: don't anything. That's pretty cool, I mean, god, I'd love

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Speaker 1: to hear that. That's amazing. Well, I remember the songs

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Speaker 1: that you wrote and where you're playing guitar. I guess, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you were really sincere and saying stuff. You know, you

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Speaker 1: were saying things and you were feeling things. It was obvious.

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Speaker 1: I honestly think that's pretty much all there is to

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Speaker 1: feel stuff. And if you're a creative person and you

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Speaker 1: make things, you put that into what you do. And

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Speaker 1: it's never going to be for everybody, but I for

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Speaker 1: always felt like that was my job was to do

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Speaker 1: that and you know, take the embarrassment if it doesn't

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Speaker 1: work out, but never really let that stop you, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's key, that word, and that meant Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a very big part of what holds people back.

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Speaker 1: You get embarrassed. So well, yeah, so what question would

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Speaker 1: you most like answered? Oh? God, I think that you

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Speaker 1: know as a former that I'm always learning, I'm always learning.

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Speaker 1: It must be the same for you. Yeah, it definitely is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm astonished at how much there is to

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Speaker 1: keep on learning. I have a thirteen year old son

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Speaker 1: and we have this similar experience. He plays the piano

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Speaker 1: and he kind of writes music and I did when

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Speaker 1: I was really young, and I remember sobbing to my

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Speaker 1: mother and my son didn't come sobbing to me, but

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Speaker 1: he was really glum one day and I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's up, and he was like, just you know, I

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Speaker 1: was just playing the piano and I was just like

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Speaker 1: writing a song. I just I just saw it like

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Speaker 1: by the time I've grown up, like there's going to

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Speaker 1: be no music left to ride. I was like, dude,

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Speaker 1: I had the same thought. I wept about it, like

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Speaker 1: all the songs are going to get written, And I said,

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Speaker 1: I've got to tell you, like, if anything, that become

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Speaker 1: more songs to write, Like there's more to learn and

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Speaker 1: there's more to do. The older I've gotten, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe how much I missed when I was younger. I

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Speaker 1: can't believe how much I thought I knew everything very true.

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Speaker 1: When you guys are writing songs, was an organic process

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Speaker 1: of you'd sit down to write a record or did

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Speaker 1: all these songs kind of come out of different situations

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Speaker 1: for all of you? Like how was that process when

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Speaker 1: you guys would write just what you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: out of experience and out of you know, situations, and

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Speaker 1: some grain of truth or absurdity you know, would strike you.

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Speaker 1: And I was always making snippets you know, little little

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Speaker 1: jots of things. And I still do that, you know,

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Speaker 1: little ideas notes to myself, and then I will organize

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Speaker 1: them and come up with some music or you know,

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Speaker 1: when we start working together as if they and in sessions,

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Speaker 1: you know, and trying to create new material. But it

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Speaker 1: works in all different ways for me. I'm sure it

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Speaker 1: does for you. Yeah. I think it's just about paying attention,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a phrase of music, or whether it's a line,

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Speaker 1: or whether it's something someone says or something that you see.

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Speaker 1: I think recording it is the most important thing. Like

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Speaker 1: I think it's the only thing I like about my

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Speaker 1: phone is that I can record a voice note kind

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Speaker 1: of wherever I am. It becomes some weird college journal.

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Speaker 1: Did you contribute to your college today? Yeah? You know

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Speaker 1: what I did? I did good. I wrote a book

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Speaker 1: and I worked not just on the writing of it,

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Speaker 1: but the design of like what the book covers going

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Speaker 1: to look like and what that means. And today was

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Speaker 1: sort of looking at it and going, is anything ever

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Speaker 1: really done? I could carry on writing this book literally

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Speaker 1: for fucking ever. I could carry on tinkering with the

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Speaker 1: phone and the color and the picture. It doesn't ever

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Speaker 1: really end, Did you feel that way about records that

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Speaker 1: like it's like, okay, I guess we should stop. But

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Speaker 1: you could actually carry a roam forever if left to

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Speaker 1: your own devices. Yes, it's a danger zone for sure.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you just have to back away from the table,

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Speaker 1: drop your fork, walk away, walk away, walk away from

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Speaker 1: the desk. I know, yeah, I know. But I do

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Speaker 1: try and do something every single day to add to

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Speaker 1: the college. It's good for my mental health, particularly in

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Speaker 1: these days, which is still a little bit more isolated

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Speaker 1: than perhaps they used to be. Do you do you

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Speaker 1: try and do something every day? Well, what I do

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Speaker 1: as I sort of closed myself up in the car

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Speaker 1: and driving in my little sound booth on wheels. I'm

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Speaker 1: very careful not to you know, because you're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to use your phone, you know, when you're driving. But

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Speaker 1: I have to make notes, so it's always sort of

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Speaker 1: sitting there on my thigh, you know, I'm always pushing

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Speaker 1: the button. You know, something that happens to me a lot.

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Speaker 1: I guess why I'm out with people, if I'm at

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Speaker 1: her show or something, and that's sometimes very surprising that

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Speaker 1: it would be in the midst of all this sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, noise and mayhem and something will you know,

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00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: sort of pop into my head and I'll try to

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Speaker 1: record that or scribble it down somewhere. Is there anyone

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00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 1: that you listen to you particularly? You know, I am

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Speaker 1: not a listener except when I'm in the car driving

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Speaker 1: and I just cruise and cruise and listened to, you know,

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Speaker 1: all different things. I like to see what's on top ten.

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Speaker 1: I like to know what kisses playing. I like to

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Speaker 1: listen to grunge. I like to listen to rap. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, you wouldn't think that I'm a person who

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Speaker 1: would really love Rage against the Machine, but I do.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually incredibly glad to know that. But rage against

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Speaker 1: the machine, I'm really interested in what people, particularly musicians, like,

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Speaker 1: what they listened to. I like all kinds of music.

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Speaker 1: Oddly enough, I have to admit it. When I'm in

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Speaker 1: the house, I don't have music on. I am not

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Speaker 1: the person who puts music on in the background. That's

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Speaker 1: the only time that I'm sort of pinned down is

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Speaker 1: when I'm in the cars. That's my that's my listening room,

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Speaker 1: and I love it. I like that. So in your life,

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Speaker 1: can you tell me about something that has grown out

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Speaker 1: of a personal disaster. I think in terms of the industry,

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Speaker 1: we all go through these rude awakenings, shall we say,

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Speaker 1: and learning experiences that really, you know, shape our sense

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Speaker 1: of worth and our sense of reality, and in actual

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Speaker 1: fact that made me have to plant myself down and say,

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Speaker 1: regardless of this, I will persevere. I've always felt it's

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Speaker 1: really good to have to push up against something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I felt that way too from the very beginning, because

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Speaker 1: you know, having to demand a reaction from an audience

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00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 1: is really really important, and it just makes you work harder. Yeah,

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00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Insisting it's funny insisting a lot of women

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Speaker 1: were not raised to insist on people's attention. Where actually

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Speaker 1: told that it's a very bad thing for a woman

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Speaker 1: to insist on people's attention. I think, yeah, act like

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Speaker 1: a lady exactly exactly what exactly what kind of lady

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Speaker 1: are you looking for? It's tricky because you're such an

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00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: influential woman at that moment in time, Like, did you

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Speaker 1: feel at a disadvantage being a woman in the industry.

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00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: I've always felt that it was an idea whose time

378
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: had come, and I felt that why Also about the

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Speaker 1: gay scene, you know that the time had come for

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Speaker 1: this to change. You know, I felt that way about

381
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Speaker 1: women in rock or whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 1: You say that there were situations where you kind of

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Speaker 1: have to find yourself worth and that you were pushing

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Speaker 1: up against. Was that like within the industry? Yeah, there

385
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: was really very little else to go, you know, there

386
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 1: was nowhere else to go with it because it was

387
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: always predicated on the next new thing. I think that

388
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: the boy said really used up, but used up there

389
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: a lot of time. Well, I think they have explored

390
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: a lot. I mean there were always great stars who

391
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 1: did exploration, like David Bowie and people like that, and

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Speaker 1: there are still as part of the survival of the

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Speaker 1: industry really is that it's it's the newest, it's the newest,

394
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Speaker 1: it's the greatest, it's the latest, it's something fresh, and

395
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: and that can be problematic that, you know, it's like

396
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: you get this sort of five year plan of possibility.

397
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: It's the same in Hollywood. It's always like the youngest

398
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: and the freshest and the newest. Right, it becomes so

399
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: myopic because it's just about that particular industry as opposed

400
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: to being an artist in general, and that constantly evolving

401
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: I think it's always hard to be a young artist,

402
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: But it's really about seeing it as a marathon, I guess,

403
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Speaker 1: and not a sprint, not just a five year but

404
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: a fifty year. Yeah. I mean that's one of the

405
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: things that Chris and I always talked about actually many

406
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: of the artists that we admired. Of course, we're middle

407
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: aged and at the time, you know, we were in

408
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: our twenties. And also you know the fact that the

409
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: great blues artists and the great jazz artists were fully

410
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: developed and you know, had been playing for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't looked down upon that they weren't in

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Speaker 1: their twenties. But you're right, in Hollywood, it's fierce because

413
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Speaker 1: it's so built on the fresh, youthful anue or whatever,

414
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: young heart throb. Yeah, it's all about merchandising and the

415
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: mercantile part of of what we do. I think that

416
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: the youth aspect is like it's an industry of its own.

417
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: You have to really emancipate yourself unless you're going to

418
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: go and just sort of sequest to yourself for the

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00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: rest of your life after you're not super young anymore,

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00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: which is obviously what Hollywood quite like a lot of

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00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: women to do. But really those faster faster, and I

422
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: was just thinking of moving out there. I was just damn.

423
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: I was just thinking of love and of loving Hollywood. No.

424
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's so weird because it's such a

425
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: tiny amount of time that you're really super young like that. Yeah,

426
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: and then you're an evolving artist for much longer. It

427
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: took me a long time to sort of emancipate myself

428
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: from outside of that. It's hard, very hard. He said

429
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: that you were really shy when you were back in singer.

430
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: How did you shed that shyness? Was it just by

431
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: doing it? And what made you want to shed the shyness?

432
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: I wanted to enjoy myself. I wanted to really be

433
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: free and loving music the way that I do and

434
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: the way that it makes me feel. I wanted to

435
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: make people see that. One day, I did have a revelation,

436
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: harsh revelation. It was at CBGBs. As a matter of fact,

437
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: I went on stage and the stage is very small there.

438
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: It's not like you can, you know, run back and

439
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 1: forth and have to do a lot of you know

440
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: this or that. You pretty much have to stay in

441
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: your spot I walked out, and I realized I was

442
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: waiting for the audience to give me, give it to me,

443
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: give it me with me. Then I realized that I

444
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: had to make them. I had to make them, I

445
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: had to command them. And that was a real revelation.

446
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: And then shyness sort of said, well, you've had your

447
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: day because I've got work to do. Wow, that's pretty

448
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: amazing to actually walk out on stage and it gets

449
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: really real and this thing that you've had as a

450
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 1: mantle in your life, it's like, Oh, I have no

451
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: further use for this and I need to shed it. Yeah,

452
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting. It's like it's a decision something else

453
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: that I had heard that being shy was a form

454
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: of ego, and I thought, wow, that's that's really crappy.

455
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: I didn't like that. Do you think that was true?

456
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: Well it just sort of made me just even more

457
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: convinced that I had no time for it. I really

458
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: like you that you just summoned all your impatience with

459
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: something that was bugging you about your character and just

460
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: left it by the wayside. Well, theoretically I did. I

461
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: don't know if I did completely all at once, but

462
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: I got the message many people ask me, how do

463
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: you not have stage fright? I said, well, I have

464
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: a job to do, and when I before I go

465
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: on stage, if I'm too excited or or too nervous,

466
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: I just say, okay, you know, concentrate on your job

467
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: and the technical aspects of what you have to do.

468
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: And that's sad, you know, just go out there, do

469
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: your job. I like that. I think you're the most

470
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: practical rock stop in the world. Oh ship, that's horrible,

471
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: that's horrible. I'm quitting. Well, what do what do wether

472
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: rock stars tell you? Well, who else are you talking to?

473
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: Damn it? I don't know. Like Dave Carl, Dave was

474
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: just so kind of all it all felt way more haphazard,

475
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: And I really like the idea to be no nonsense

476
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: with the parts of ourselves that are difficult and going Okay,

477
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: well you're feeling really nervous, you're feeling really scary. It

478
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: all right, Well you've got to go out there and

479
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: you've got a job to do, so just focus on

480
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: that and stop thinking about all the other stuff. Like

481
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: it's really it's kind of good parenting of yourself. I

482
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: did get some good advice about that, you know, and

483
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: how to help yourself. Think about envisioning yourself as a

484
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: small child, and you take your small child hand in

485
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: your big child hand, say okay, you're with me, let's go,

486
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: and I just I love it. I like that too.

487
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: It's very good to parent ourselves. Yes, I mean, you

488
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: do that for yourself, right, you have a child. But

489
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: I've done it more for myself since I did it

490
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: for my kids. Parenting him told me how to be

491
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: a good parent to myself, more tolerant kind of a right, Yeah,

492
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: take your own hand. I'd like that. Yeah. Oh, Debbie,

493
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you with all of my heart. Thank

494
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: you for coming and talking to me. I just think

495
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: you're the absolute greatest. Thank you. I wouldn't have done

496
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: it if I didn't feel the same way about you,

497
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: and I keep my eyes out for you. Welcome here.

498
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: She is, so thank you. Debbie Harry is a rock

499
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: icon and her footprint on the industry is deep. I'd

500
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: recommend if you can to get into a car or

501
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: as Debbie would say, you're Sam Booth on wheels and

502
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: blast your favorite Blondie song and don't forget to add

503
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: every day to the collage of your life. Mini questions

504
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver, Supervising producer

505
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: Aaron Kaufman, Producer more Than Lavoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown.

506
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, Additional music by

507
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: Aaron Kaufman, Executive produced by Me Mini Driver. Special thanks

508
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day, Lisa Castella

509
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: and a Nick Oppenheim, a w k PR de La Pescador,

510
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg, And for constantly solicited tech support,

511
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: Henry Driver h