Speaker 1: Am I flipping you enough? Am I doing this enough?
Speaker 1: Like I feel like I get I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: I'm critiquing my top performance more than my bottom performance
Speaker 1: because I think the bottoming work for me happens before,
Speaker 1: whereas the topping happens.
Speaker 2: During correct Yeah, it's like pre production work and then
Speaker 2: production work.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know what, this is a safe space to
Speaker 1: talk about relationships, love and sex. Now let me tell
Speaker 1: you something messy, juicy, messy, jesy. Here you go. So, I,
Speaker 1: you know, it was getting dressed for at do fittings
Speaker 1: for the News show recaving the Magala, and so I
Speaker 1: had my outfit which was this des perro black suit
Speaker 1: with shorts covered in flowers, with a with a silver
Speaker 1: bow tie and just you know, giving fashion honey. So
Speaker 1: I had it hanging up in the bedroom and Matthew
Speaker 1: comes home and he walks into the bedroom and sees it,
Speaker 1: and you know, is gagging over it, and we're you know,
Speaker 1: talking about it and talking about non binary fashion, and
Speaker 1: you know how I try to express how I have
Speaker 1: to like wear these suits sometimes, but I always when
Speaker 1: I'm wearing a suit for these traditional panels like the
Speaker 1: News Show, I want to subvert it. Somehow to really
Speaker 1: express my non binary identity. And so then we got
Speaker 1: on the topic of a date that Matthew went on.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm whispering, but he wanted this date,
Speaker 1: an underwhelming date, as he would describe it, and he
Speaker 1: when he went first one, he didn't tell me why,
Speaker 1: which I never probe. You know, we kind of only
Speaker 1: talk about those things if one it feels like it's
Speaker 1: going to impact our relationship or there's something to process,
Speaker 1: and so if it's just kind of like a random date,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't really talk too much about it.
Speaker 1: But because we were talking about the non binary fashion,
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, I had this experience and I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if I should tell you about it. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, give me the tea, come on, give
Speaker 1: me key ki.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we're such we're just like, uh, just like two
Speaker 1: dolls a kikiing about boys, which is my favorite. So
Speaker 1: on the date, they got on the topic about uh,
Speaker 1: just non binary people and dressing and let's calluse the
Speaker 1: date Lucas. So Lucas then goes, I just don't get it,
Speaker 1: like I don't get why they dressed like that, and
Speaker 1: then Lucas proceeds to tell Matthew that an example, He's like,
Speaker 1: for example, there is this guy that goes to my gym.
Speaker 1: He's like this six foot beautiful black man, but he
Speaker 1: wears sports bras, and like, I don't get it. It's
Speaker 1: like he wants attention. It just like goes on and
Speaker 1: goes on and on, and I'm dying, and Matthew goes,
Speaker 1: I think you're talking about my partner, which I can
Speaker 1: confirm who was because it's my gym. It was in
Speaker 1: my jim and I am the only six foot one
Speaker 1: black malebody that wears sports bras, and so obviously Lucas
Speaker 1: was immediately mortified. Which the lesson here is, do not
Speaker 1: talk shit about people. Don't go on a date and
Speaker 1: start talking. First of all, that to be is crazy.
Speaker 1: To call on a date and start talking shit about
Speaker 1: a community of people is crazy. That's like a first
Speaker 1: red flag. But like, don't do that. But anyways, but
Speaker 1: this like frustration gaze can have some gays, let's say,
Speaker 1: can have with non binary folks, or this this threat,
Speaker 1: I think it's a threat. They feel threatened. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say the thing. I'm gonna just say it and call
Speaker 1: it plane right, because this idea that it's for attention,
Speaker 1: and I know women you do with this too, men
Speaker 1: thinking that everyone is dressing for their fucking attention. Baby. No, no,
Speaker 1: there's nothing about me wearing a sports bra that is
Speaker 1: for the attention of men. In fact, I would say
Speaker 1: that it's weeding the the assholes out because I know
Speaker 1: that the men. How do I say this if you're
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, is probably not about you, okay,
Speaker 1: but I know that the constitution of men is so
Speaker 1: weak and fragile that me and a sports bra really
Speaker 1: can provoke them and not I'm not trying to provoke,
Speaker 1: but I recognize that it makes them short circuit. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you right now, I have about three reactions
Speaker 1: that I get when I'm in a sports bra, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna write more about this on subsack, so I'm
Speaker 1: write a whole essay and tell you everything about this
Speaker 1: in detail. But either it's like go off this, you
Speaker 1: look great, love that, where I get one you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, which shout out to those gays love
Speaker 1: you and those men straight guys too, love you. It's
Speaker 1: also then a hyper masculinity that gets triggered like they
Speaker 1: become more masculine around me, scowling, disgusted, even rude, like uh,
Speaker 1: I just it's subtle, but but I can feel it.
Speaker 1: Like listen, I'm still six to one, so they ain't
Speaker 1: gonna try it. I'm still six one eighty pounds, Okay,
Speaker 1: noting I'm trying to then, but like there's a rudeness
Speaker 1: that is felt. And then there's a third, which is
Speaker 1: like an in between, which is like, it's clear that
Speaker 1: you're attracted or not even sexually attracted, but just like
Speaker 1: you're attracted to this braw on my body, but you
Speaker 1: don't think that you're allowed to be. And so there's
Speaker 1: just like a vacant staring that happens, like a short circuiting,
Speaker 1: all of which go off. All of it's fine, None
Speaker 1: of it is for you. It is all for me.
Speaker 1: I wear a sports raw, uh, for a reclamation of
Speaker 1: my own sexiness, on my own beauty, and for because
Speaker 1: I love to live in the I don't want to
Speaker 1: call it the in between, because it's like it's really
Speaker 1: outside of gender, inside of gender, around above below, it's
Speaker 1: all of it's all of it. I love to live
Speaker 1: at the intersections of my masculine and my feminine and
Speaker 1: my divine, if you will, And so a sports bra
Speaker 1: is a real simple way for me to do that.
Speaker 1: But I just thought it was so messy, and Matthew
Speaker 1: handled it like a pro, as we always do. You know,
Speaker 1: we're we're thoughtful, and so there's there's grace to be given.
Speaker 1: You know, anyone who's curious and wants to evolve, we
Speaker 1: gonna give you grace. But I do think that the
Speaker 1: most dangerous men to me are some of the most
Speaker 1: dangerous men to me are those who are in marginalized
Speaker 1: groups and where that marginalization as a whole pass to
Speaker 1: not have to reflect on their own privileges and the
Speaker 1: ways in which they can be harmful. Does that make sense.
Speaker 1: So if you are a straight black man who is
Speaker 1: unaware of your privilege, if you are a white gay
Speaker 1: man who is unaware in marginalized groups, but you are
Speaker 1: unaware of the privilege that you still hold and don't
Speaker 1: reflect on that and don't think that there are things
Speaker 1: for you to dismantle or ways in which you can
Speaker 1: be harmful, then you're not showing up as supportive. You're
Speaker 1: not showing up in ways that are able to nurture
Speaker 1: and take care of and be additive to the movement
Speaker 1: of liberation. Does that make sense? We all have a
Speaker 1: role to play. I'm in this male body. I understand
Speaker 1: that I have privilege. I understand that I have male privilege.
Speaker 1: So there are ways in which I can show up
Speaker 1: for women and for fems, for trans folks, right, And
Speaker 1: if I don't, if I am just so wrapped up
Speaker 1: and well, I'm black and non binary, and I have
Speaker 1: a lot of oppression. If I'm wrapped up in that,
Speaker 1: then I can't show up for the other people who
Speaker 1: are also experiencing oppression, and some to an even greater
Speaker 1: degree than I am. So two things get to be
Speaker 1: true at once. I can be from an oppressed group
Speaker 1: and experience oppression and experience disrespect and marginalization and things
Speaker 1: that are unfair, But I can also perpetuate that to
Speaker 1: other groups if I'm not aware, and so to my
Speaker 1: gay men. And I think that if you're listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast, you already doing your work. But in case
Speaker 1: you're not, let this be a moment to encourage you
Speaker 1: to say, Hey, how am I showing up? What's the
Speaker 1: reflection that I'm doing? Am I taking care of my
Speaker 1: trans brothers and sisters. Am I taking care of my
Speaker 1: non binary counterparts? Am I taking care of women? Am
Speaker 1: I taking care of men that may be of a
Speaker 1: different race or ethnic background than I? Am? Am I
Speaker 1: taking care of people who may not have the same
Speaker 1: access or privilege as me. Whether that it's also talking
Speaker 1: about class and money and and all these other all
Speaker 1: these identity politics. I'm not saying you need to beat
Speaker 1: yourself over the head, but do understand that you are
Speaker 1: not exempt from doing the work. And if you think
Speaker 1: you are exempt, then you find yourself on a date
Speaker 1: talking shit about some non binary person at your gym
Speaker 1: to their partner. Okay, and that's crazy. You don't want
Speaker 1: that made me? You don't want that. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: let's get the show started. Where's that? Maybe you know
Speaker 1: what that means? It is time for a guess now,
Speaker 1: while they get situated, and before we do our home manifesto,
Speaker 1: I want to remind you that I would love, love, love, love,
Speaker 1: love love for you to rate, review, and subscribe to
Speaker 1: this podcast. It really helps us expand the show, get
Speaker 1: the show to more listeners. And it only takes a second.
Speaker 1: And when you review it, you ain't got to write
Speaker 1: anything long. You could just be like, I love this show,
Speaker 1: I love Brandon. Learning about sex is fun, relationships are cool,
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Okay, so do me your favorite rate
Speaker 1: review and subscribe again. It really helps the show, and
Speaker 1: I thank you so much in advance. All right now time,
Speaker 1: but a who manifest Stoe grant me the serenity to
Speaker 1: unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to
Speaker 1: know that sex is not about penetration, the audacity to
Speaker 1: advocate for my pleasure and my boundaries, the strength to
Speaker 1: not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl or four.
Speaker 1: It is better to masturbate by myself in peace than
Speaker 1: to let someone play in my mother fucking face. Let
Speaker 1: the home unity say ho, helujah. I am so excited
Speaker 1: to have Cody Rigsby and Andrew Chappelle on the show
Speaker 1: You Know beloved fitness instructor Cody Rigsby from your peloton
Speaker 1: screens as the king of pop culture, hot takes and
Speaker 1: the ultimate relationship Guru. He was the second runner up
Speaker 1: on the thirtieth season of Dancing with the Stars, and
Speaker 1: he co hosted the Glad Media Awards. He recently added
Speaker 1: New York Times bestselling author to the resume with his
Speaker 1: debut book, Xoxo Cody, An Opinionated Homosexuals Guide to self love, relationships,
Speaker 1: and Tactful Pettiness. Andrew Chappelle is a queer, black and
Speaker 1: indigenous creator born and raised in Los Angeles, California. In
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, Andrew wrote and produce Fanatic, a short
Speaker 1: film directed by Taran Killim that made its rounds in
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty three festival season. More recently, he appeared
Speaker 1: in the first two seasons of the critically acclaimed Stars
Speaker 1: series Blind Spotting as the short tongued and lovable character Scottie.
Speaker 1: He also played the role of Spitfire fellon j Lo
Speaker 1: in Showtimes Escape at Dana Mora opposite Paul Daniel and
Speaker 1: Benicio del Toro. Furthermore, he guest starred on Moesha, Fuck Yes,
Speaker 1: and Amazon's The Tick Please Help Me. Welcome Cody and Andrew. Hi,
Speaker 1: Cody and Andrew. Y'all do are you good?
Speaker 4: We're great, We're fantastic.
Speaker 2: The weather has finally turned here in New York like
Speaker 2: we are, like the sky is blue.
Speaker 3: It's shorts and yes.
Speaker 1: I love blooming.
Speaker 5: It's gorgeous here in New York.
Speaker 1: I love it. We'll take the win where we can
Speaker 1: get him now period, We're gonna have a conversation. But
Speaker 1: let me give you our messy mandates. Okay, So things
Speaker 1: get to be unprocessed, and he thought or opinions shared
Speaker 1: have the right to shift, change or evolve today, tomorrow
Speaker 1: or ten years from now. And if during the key
Speaker 1: key something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we used
Speaker 1: to say ford foosball, which gives us a chance to pause, pivot,
Speaker 1: and address accordingly.
Speaker 2: Sound good, alright, worry, I was wondering how I would
Speaker 2: pivot out of my messy moment.
Speaker 1: Just say football football, All right. Let's start with the word.
Speaker 5: Is that you're safe for it during like kinky sex?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, because I just have too much
Speaker 1: in my head. So yes, I use foosball across the board.
Speaker 1: If you ever hear me say foosball, come save me.
Speaker 1: All right. Let's start with the lube breaker. Yeah, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: smash or wait a lube breaker? Yes, yeah, baby, we
Speaker 1: love our lube. Okay, So smash or pass candle wax
Speaker 1: play pass past.
Speaker 3: Maybe when I'm at unik wax and they're taking the
Speaker 3: hairs off of my butt cheeks.
Speaker 5: That is enough pain. Okay, I don't like that. That's
Speaker 5: too much. It hurts I.
Speaker 1: Pulling off the hair though, girl Like it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: like massage oil, like a little dribble on your someone.
Speaker 5: That's not very kinky. I'm just it's just not it's
Speaker 5: not for you.
Speaker 2: Before I answer Brandon, yeah, I'm I'm interested in this.
Speaker 2: Tell me, can you just tell me a little before
Speaker 2: I say smash your pass?
Speaker 5: Like yes, what would that be?
Speaker 1: So it could? So there are candles that the wax
Speaker 1: turns into like a massage oil. So it's like you
Speaker 1: could be on you know, your back or your stomach
Speaker 1: and somebody drizzles a little bit of that onto your
Speaker 1: body and they rub it in. It's more temperature play,
Speaker 1: so it's like the sexiness of the heat. Sometimes, you know.
Speaker 1: The opposite of that would be like ice or using
Speaker 1: you know, giving a blow job with an ice cube
Speaker 1: in your mouth if somebody wants to have that cold sensation.
Speaker 5: So when it when it drips on you, is it
Speaker 5: extremely heart Does it hurt?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 1: It's like me, well you can't. That's why you're not
Speaker 1: using like a Martha Stewart candle you're using like a
Speaker 1: specific candle that is that turns into uh into like
Speaker 1: a massage oil.
Speaker 3: And please answer me this, Yes, can said, wax that
Speaker 3: turns into massage oil also be used as loop.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. I don't have that answer off
Speaker 1: the top of my head, but I would imagine, so
Speaker 1: why not? I would say, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I like I like this. Yeah, massage is fine.
Speaker 3: And if it can be used as lube, then smash
Speaker 3: if it cannot pass. And I would just like to
Speaker 3: say that olive oil can be lube and coconut oil.
Speaker 5: Cocon oil for sure. You're in a jiffy and you
Speaker 5: didn't you didn't, you didn't know. I use Olive oil
Speaker 5: is a great moisturizer. You put that in your face?
Speaker 1: Ask Yeah, like cooking. Olive oil you put on your face,
Speaker 1: you get like a specific.
Speaker 4: Wait face, No.
Speaker 5: Yeah you can face.
Speaker 2: You could belive oil on your face, not a lot,
Speaker 2: but like a little just like a little dab and
Speaker 2: rub it in. I guess the thing what appeals to
Speaker 2: me about this this wax play that you speak of,
Speaker 2: is uh that joking massage?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 2: No, that like jolt that you get when you have
Speaker 2: an extreme temperature, right, yes, yeah, yeah, that's something that
Speaker 2: kind of excites me about the I'm like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: a little hot.
Speaker 1: You gotta get you a candle. Trying that I might
Speaker 1: have to give me a cand I think you'll enjoy.
Speaker 1: I think you'll enjoy harm. Why smash or pass being
Speaker 1: tied up? I know you don't like kinks, but is
Speaker 1: that too far?
Speaker 3: I've never done I've never done it. But I could
Speaker 3: be down smash, I could be down and smash.
Speaker 5: Mind just smash. I also really like to do the tying.
Speaker 1: Oh talk about it, daddy, Okay, okay. I have a
Speaker 1: fantasy of like getting into ropes more like I want
Speaker 1: to be like roped up motherfucker. But anyways, we just.
Speaker 2: Say, can we just say we're so happy we get
Speaker 2: to like really do we don't get to do the
Speaker 2: stuff on our podcast like this?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is it refreshing.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, smash, re pass double penetration, receiving or giving
Speaker 1: smash wow wow? Receiving or giving giving giving?
Speaker 5: Hear me.
Speaker 1: The pause?
Speaker 3: These maybe a small moment, but it's not okay, okay, okay, cool,
Speaker 3: I have given. I've never received what I'd like to
Speaker 3: I see, I see the trepidation.
Speaker 5: I see.
Speaker 1: I see.
Speaker 3: I'm open to it, open to it, been open enough
Speaker 3: to do it.
Speaker 1: Wowow, she did that. Beautiful. You're interested, but you're interested anyways.
Speaker 1: You won the game. Congratulations.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, we won.
Speaker 4: Participation trophies exactly.
Speaker 1: If y'all have prompts or games, you can email me
Speaker 1: at tell me Something Messy at gmail dot com. Speaking
Speaker 1: of which, Andrew Cody, who wants to tell me something messy? First?
Speaker 2: Oh right, okay, I can tell my messy story. I
Speaker 2: want to preface this story by saying I was in
Speaker 2: my early twenties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, mine's also in my early twenties.
Speaker 5: It was New York.
Speaker 2: I had just gotten back to New York. I'd been
Speaker 2: on tour for a year, and I was looking good.
Speaker 2: I was feeling really fierce. I was unemployed, I was out.
Speaker 2: I was on this rooftop as I used to do
Speaker 2: in my twenties. Met this really hot guy from the Netherlands.
Speaker 3: Oh he just was I say something, I do love
Speaker 3: a Dutch boy, and I think it is because of
Speaker 3: the specific amount of foreskin that they have that I've experienced.
Speaker 4: Wow, I really enjoy that.
Speaker 5: I met from the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: He was everything that I that I tend to enjoy
Speaker 2: in an aesthetic of a person, and he really we
Speaker 2: really connected on this rooftop he was visiting and he
Speaker 2: was like, look, I'm really liking you.
Speaker 5: I'm here with my friends right now.
Speaker 2: He was like, but I would really love if we
Speaker 2: can hang out again while I'm here, and like really
Speaker 2: really hang out.
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, great.
Speaker 5: So we start texting.
Speaker 2: We agree we're going to meet at this bar called
Speaker 2: x It was called XL XL at the time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I said, great, I'll meet you at XL.
Speaker 2: So I get to EXCEL and I'm there and he's
Speaker 2: not there, and he's like, I'm huh, where was XL
Speaker 2: forty second.
Speaker 3: Forty second Street all the way on the west side.
Speaker 3: It used to be like a big club, especially where
Speaker 3: like the circuit parties were.
Speaker 4: And then oh, okay, it's also a hotel.
Speaker 1: Oh the gay hotel.
Speaker 4: Hotel?
Speaker 1: Yes XL.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, right go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I said, we said we're going to meet at EXL.
Speaker 2: I get to Excel at the time we agreed on.
Speaker 2: He doesn't show up, so I was like, I think
Speaker 2: he's coming but I'm going to have a drink just
Speaker 2: to kind of like.
Speaker 1: Get calmed down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, calm down, chill. So I have one drink. I
Speaker 2: drink fast so that I had another drink. Now, mind
Speaker 2: you remember at the beginning of the story, I'm cute
Speaker 2: in this era and standing at a bar drinking by myself.
Speaker 5: Somebody came and started hollering at me.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I knew I had the cutie on the way,
Speaker 2: but I was like, well, I don't know if he's
Speaker 2: gonna come. I've already been waiting for an hour. Here's
Speaker 2: an hour, And so I started already waiting for an hour.
Speaker 5: It felt like hudos, you know, thirtyish minutes whatever. I
Speaker 5: had been a long time before you could share someone's
Speaker 5: location exactly. So anyhow, so I started canoodling with this
Speaker 5: new man. We get on the dance.
Speaker 2: Floor, and he was doing what we liked the men
Speaker 2: to do on the dance floor, absolutely in walks, Netherlands,
Speaker 2: and I was reminded of.
Speaker 4: The beauty she ran.
Speaker 5: From the Netherlands.
Speaker 2: And I said, and I looked at this other guy,
Speaker 2: said well, now what is going on here?
Speaker 5: So I excused myself artfully.
Speaker 2: The guy that I had recently met, didn't know that
Speaker 2: I had left him to go be with Netherlands. And
Speaker 2: with the Netherlands, and we have we're starting to hit
Speaker 2: it off a little bit, and then he excuses himself
Speaker 2: to go to the bathroom. The first guy comes and
Speaker 2: swoops me, starts making moves. Netherlands comes back from the bathroom,
Speaker 2: sees me in the throes of passion with the new guy.
Speaker 5: It is so upset.
Speaker 2: He's like, I can't believe you did this to me.
Speaker 2: I thought you were so special. I came here just
Speaker 2: for you. This was supposed to be our night, and
Speaker 2: now you do this to me. He's like, I will
Speaker 2: never forget this. I will never forgive you, and he
Speaker 2: storms out. So I went home with that guy, the
Speaker 2: first guy, and then.
Speaker 5: And it was it was awful. It was horrible. He
Speaker 5: was he had not cleaned out. We were both really drunk.
Speaker 2: It was his apartment was awfuls.
Speaker 3: For a frog, literally literally, But listen, Netherlands was in
Speaker 3: the right, like baby, yeah, like I came here for
Speaker 3: a date with you and you're already canoodling and making
Speaker 3: up with Then the boy when I went to the bathroom.
Speaker 1: But he was also late. He was also like an
Speaker 1: hour late.
Speaker 3: It's a messy moment, and but like you could have
Speaker 3: gotten the frog's number and like, hey, I'm actually meeting
Speaker 3: someone for a day. Let's let's meet another time. You know,
Speaker 3: like come on, But you were young and dumb.
Speaker 5: It was a messy moment. It is my one. It
Speaker 5: is my one. Messy Okay, don't be so generous.
Speaker 1: Wow, thank you for that, Thank you for that. Cody.
Speaker 3: I was also I think I was actually nineteen. It's
Speaker 3: my first summer in New York City.
Speaker 5: I had.
Speaker 3: Gone out to a club named Splash Rip oh Rip.
Speaker 3: This was two splash that was a dope vibe one
Speaker 3: as Britney Spears is performing, I say, I could go
Speaker 3: for it. Okay, uh and the shower shows work.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 3: My gentleman at Splash I went home with him.
Speaker 4: I well, he was also visiting. I think he was British.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: Foreskin was involved the maatics of that podcast. And I
Speaker 3: had to go to work to the next day because
Speaker 3: I was working at a lampshade store and.
Speaker 1: I was paide.
Speaker 4: Was broke as fuck at the time.
Speaker 3: I had come to New York with maybe like six
Speaker 3: hundred dollars in my in my bank account and just
Speaker 3: like trying to figure it out.
Speaker 4: And so we did the deed.
Speaker 3: He fell asleep and while he was sleeping, I gathered
Speaker 3: my things and I left, but on my way out,
Speaker 3: I grabbed the cash that was on his dresser because
Speaker 3: a bitch needed cab money.
Speaker 5: So you're a thief.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, I was proud of it.
Speaker 5: You travel, It was fine. I love that you prostituted yourself.
Speaker 1: Yes. Wow, that's incredible. That's incredible. So you're a thief.
Speaker 1: That's name of this episode.
Speaker 5: And the gag is I bet you that man didn't
Speaker 5: even notice the money.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm saying he was.
Speaker 5: Probably like he was probably like, oh I was drunk.
Speaker 4: I like, I left it fell out of my pocket
Speaker 4: like he did. He didn't know.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also that's like so so cash on the nightstand is
Speaker 1: so like dated, right, We're like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: much cash I have myself, like really dates the time period,
Speaker 1: really sick.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And listen, listen.
Speaker 3: If I were to bring a young man back, I
Speaker 3: would off and they were had to go, you know,
Speaker 3: all the way uptown.
Speaker 5: I would offer to get them an uber And.
Speaker 2: He knew that back he knew he had a young
Speaker 2: guy there that could have used the forty dollars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not mad about that like that.
Speaker 5: I mean I could have, but.
Speaker 4: Wow, I know this is the same space.
Speaker 1: They got both of those stories. Shall we do some
Speaker 1: messy mail?
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: As always, your submissions remain anonymous. Okay, this one says, uh,
Speaker 1: I purchased my first butt plug and vibe. I'm still
Speaker 1: nervous to try, but just purchasing them was such a
Speaker 1: big step for myself. Have y'all ever bought a toy?
Speaker 1: Do you have toys? Do you remember your first time
Speaker 1: buying a toy? Oh?
Speaker 4: Yes, I have. I have purchased said toys.
Speaker 1: I don't do y'all use toys. Let's have that conversation
Speaker 1: by oneself or together by yourself about yourself.
Speaker 5: I have.
Speaker 3: It's honestly too much fucking work. I'm trying to clean.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to clean out to masturbabe, baby, I can
Speaker 3: jump on the internet and bang one out in three,
Speaker 3: you know, three minutes. And yeah, a friend of mine
Speaker 3: loves to use toys, and I'm like.
Speaker 5: You're doing all this together just to.
Speaker 3: Fucking well and that jack and this toys this friend
Speaker 3: gives us toys. He's given me a toy before, so
Speaker 3: yeah that and also I and also together, I don't
Speaker 3: love it either. I want the real thing. Just give
Speaker 3: me the real dick. Let's go like big dick.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, I'm not using a toy I've used.
Speaker 3: I tried, I've I've tried it with a partner I
Speaker 3: think twice, and both times I was like, this, what
Speaker 3: are we doing?
Speaker 1: What we So actually with a partner was hot for me,
Speaker 1: like I didn't expect it to be, because it was
Speaker 1: like we were we were doing the deed and then
Speaker 1: we switched out to a toy and had me like
Speaker 1: propped up and it was just like they were using
Speaker 1: the toy very beautifully and then like made me beg
Speaker 1: for the thing, for the real thing, and I was like, yes, please, daddy,
Speaker 1: And then you know, So, actually I found toys to
Speaker 1: be more useful for me with partnership than by myself.
Speaker 1: By myself, I'm like, I'm not cleaning out. There's not
Speaker 1: really a good penis toy, Like I don't care about
Speaker 1: the vibes, aren't the vibe vibrating cocker is not.
Speaker 3: Oh wait that I that I can fuck with. But
Speaker 3: it also takes a lot more work where I'm just
Speaker 3: like I can use my hand, but I get it.
Speaker 3: I have I have two One I'm not mad at
Speaker 3: I have to two moments about toys.
Speaker 2: One, I got my first toy the Blue Store in Chelsea,
Speaker 2: Iconic and I honestly went with our friend Juan One
Speaker 2: took me because because I was so I just like
Speaker 2: I had bottomed, you know before, like when I was
Speaker 2: in high school.
Speaker 5: But I wanted.
Speaker 4: Can you legally buy them in high school?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 3: No, this is your underage. Can you legally buy a toy?
Speaker 3: Or is that an eighteen it's eighteen plus?
Speaker 5: No? But I didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't have a toy in high school. I like
Speaker 2: had sex when I was in high school, but gratulations.
Speaker 2: But when I was when I was older, was living
Speaker 2: in New York, and I was like, oh, I want
Speaker 2: to start bottoming more. I was like, I need a
Speaker 2: toy to kind of start to get used to what's
Speaker 2: going on. So that was why it was really helpful
Speaker 2: for me to have a toy at first. Then later
Speaker 2: later later the toys really came in handy because I'm like, you, guys,
Speaker 2: I don't need a toy on a Wednesday. The toys
Speaker 2: really came in handy when I was in a long
Speaker 2: distance relationship. We will would you know, have a video
Speaker 2: or whatever, and then you know that you can there
Speaker 2: you get a little bit more creative with what's going on,
Speaker 2: you know, So.
Speaker 1: That makes sense, that's fair. Yeah, I feel like toys
Speaker 1: are really great for Volva owners, Like there are a
Speaker 1: lot of toys out there for but for the penis
Speaker 1: owning and the booty hole unless you want to clean out,
Speaker 1: which again I don't want to clean out.
Speaker 4: To that's your own prog.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, But if you do, I have best one
Speaker 1: who does and I and I support it. I'm okay.
Speaker 1: This one says I got married on Saturday, and I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure four of my friends ended the night with
Speaker 1: an orgy. Have you ever had an orgy at a wedding?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 5: Orgy?
Speaker 1: Gee?
Speaker 4: Fuck?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, let's go.
Speaker 5: I don't know about that.
Speaker 3: I went to I went to a gay wedding that
Speaker 3: had a party of all gay men and were single
Speaker 3: and some were coupled, and we all ended up hooking,
Speaker 3: not all in the same thing, but everyone was hooking
Speaker 3: up with everybody. And it was on a resort, So
Speaker 3: you could go to the room and come.
Speaker 5: Back and during the literally during the reception the party.
Speaker 1: Were the grooms involved at all?
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I don't. I wasn't involving myself with
Speaker 3: the grooms. Sure, myself with the guests.
Speaker 4: Because.
Speaker 5: Give them at least one night. Oh no, no, I
Speaker 5: mean thank you. I need agrees.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't feel and I wouldn't feel correct involving the grooms.
Speaker 5: I'm like, this is like your mom, like like your
Speaker 5: mom is here, like you know what I mean, Like like, well,
Speaker 5: this was the friend's wedding. This wasn't the.
Speaker 3: Family wedding, so this was it was just friends, it
Speaker 3: was and all that there were. There were women there though, So.
Speaker 5: I bet those grooms got into something.
Speaker 3: We don't think that they did. I don't think that
Speaker 3: they did. I think they're just too and hear me out.
Speaker 3: I think this was the mentality. It's like, when you
Speaker 3: host a party, you want everything.
Speaker 5: You want your.
Speaker 3: Guests to be in a good space and everyone to
Speaker 3: have fun. So I just don't think that you're yourself
Speaker 3: being like I'm trying to get I'm trying to fuck sure.
Speaker 5: Sure, I've never had an orgy at a wedding.
Speaker 2: But I did hook up with a guy at a
Speaker 2: wedding in the bathroom. Oh it was my friend's wedding
Speaker 2: here in Brooklyn, and there was like, you know how
Speaker 2: at the straight weddings there's like another gay there. But
Speaker 2: this was a guy who we were always we would
Speaker 2: we would always hang.
Speaker 5: Out just through these friends. But did anything.
Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes like the wine hits, the light hits,
Speaker 2: you're both in suits, you kind of look.
Speaker 4: Right place, right time.
Speaker 2: And we made it happen there in the bathroom during
Speaker 2: the wedding and came out, and of course everybody.
Speaker 1: Knew the gays disappeared for a while.
Speaker 2: The two gay guys left and came back and didn't
Speaker 2: quickly left each other's side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty obvious.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: What was the question though, was the question like should
Speaker 3: they be or it's just like, hey, they had an orgy,
Speaker 3: and this is we.
Speaker 1: Had an orgy. My question was have y'all ever done it?
Speaker 1: But they were just submitting that there was an orginy mad.
Speaker 3: Because they weren't involved, or they're just saying their friends
Speaker 3: had an orgy.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't tell the tone because all they says,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure four of my friends ended the night
Speaker 1: with an orgy, So I mean, I assume they're supportive,
Speaker 1: but who knows. I mean, I wouldn't be mad. I
Speaker 1: feel like so. Matthew and I never had a wedding.
Speaker 1: We just like went to a courthouse in Santa Barbara.
Speaker 1: But we've always talked about like doing a wedding at
Speaker 1: some point, and if I did at this point in
Speaker 1: my life, I would actually make sure that the wedding
Speaker 1: set was set up so that that could exist for
Speaker 1: the guests.
Speaker 5: On the premises.
Speaker 4: Guys, I also had sex at another wedding.
Speaker 1: Oh, she's the weddings talk about it.
Speaker 4: It was definitely four Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now this is a question what how many participants quantifies a.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. We've talked about that. It's I
Speaker 1: think it's five and above.
Speaker 5: Okay, that's what we say too, five and above. So
Speaker 5: this was technically this was technically just a foursome.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, So a group a group.
Speaker 2: Let me listen, something something comes the spirit of love
Speaker 2: comes over people at weddings. People are it does? Does
Speaker 2: people people soften at weddings? Yes, people look at each
Speaker 2: other at the wedding differently, it's.
Speaker 1: Don't makes me warny, Let's just say it. It's it's
Speaker 1: a beautiful it's a beautiful ambiance. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: love happening, a lot of emotional connection. It's kind of perfect.
Speaker 5: And also everyone has gotten ready, like everyone looks good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are at our best. We are we're showered,
Speaker 1: we're washed, we're cleaned out. Absolutely. This one says, which
Speaker 1: you know it's just a submission. I accidentally match with
Speaker 1: my therapist's husband on tender How you know it's How do.
Speaker 5: They know it's their their therapist's husband.
Speaker 3: I have questions too, because these I feel like a
Speaker 3: therapists usually they try to keep a low profile.
Speaker 1: They keep it private, right.
Speaker 4: Therapist, I wouldn't be.
Speaker 2: I mean every every therapist is. It was not did
Speaker 2: not get an A in med school? Okay, So you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes the lines be getting blurred and sometimes people be
Speaker 2: saying too much or.
Speaker 3: I think, as you're now as the client, you need
Speaker 3: to hold the boundary. And then I think that the
Speaker 3: husband of the therapist, it'd be if he ever finds out,
Speaker 3: is going to have to step away.
Speaker 1: So I was like, why is the therapist so I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess they could be open, but that is such
Speaker 1: a weird thing to like.
Speaker 4: A hinge or on grinder?
Speaker 1: Is it a tender?
Speaker 5: So that's grinder basically, Oh, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3: It's like it's it's a glinder with a facade of
Speaker 3: like relationships.
Speaker 1: See I was on Tender. I met Matthew on Tinder,
Speaker 1: and it was when Tender was actually still a very
Speaker 1: wholesome place. And I guess, so now it's it's not kinder.
Speaker 2: Kinder is grinder with the with the what do you
Speaker 2: call it? The facade of what's how hinge with hinte?
Speaker 1: Okay, so people are there pretending like they're trying to date,
Speaker 1: but they really just want to fuck you. Wow.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like the gaze that go to horse
Speaker 3: Meat Disco Because it's not a circuit party?
Speaker 5: Did they feel okay with going to the party?
Speaker 2: And you're like, are you more tweaked out than anybody
Speaker 2: else here? Like I'm talking about you don't do a
Speaker 2: circuit party.
Speaker 4: It's okay if you go to a party, baby, it's okay.
Speaker 3: You need to be this specific one to make you
Speaker 3: feel good, like just have fun and can just do
Speaker 3: the all the things you want to do and have fun, and.
Speaker 2: Spare me the monologue that you don't go to the
Speaker 2: circuit party.
Speaker 5: You're standing in one.
Speaker 4: You're literally here. I've seen you here before.
Speaker 5: I don't need you. I don't need this whole long.
Speaker 2: Diet tribe about how like it's not really girthing and
Speaker 2: you don't really do it, like girl, I have seen
Speaker 2: you move through this room tonight. No, well enough, you
Speaker 2: know you've been here before.
Speaker 5: I've seen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What is a circuit party? It's basically about the music.
Speaker 1: Is that what people?
Speaker 3: Okay, here's the thing to break it down technically, like
Speaker 3: I understand the distinction between a horse meat disco music
Speaker 3: and circuit music. Circuit music is in fact of trash.
Speaker 3: I would say that that's I used to love it,
Speaker 3: hate it now? Yes, yeah, unless we're in the mood
Speaker 3: for it once.
Speaker 5: Because it was pretty in Miami. Maybe we guess it
Speaker 5: loves turning me out.
Speaker 2: They're giving us the Allegrea music at brunch and we
Speaker 2: were ready.
Speaker 1: To really hit it.
Speaker 4: I think a circuit party is a little bit.
Speaker 3: More rooted in the old school, because circuit parties kind
Speaker 3: of came out of the tea dance and they've just
Speaker 3: been these queer spaces and it's a specific music and
Speaker 3: it's very I would say it's like very gay, where
Speaker 3: Yeah to Go Disco is a little bit more gay
Speaker 3: but also a little queer.
Speaker 1: Sure, it's a little bit, it's still very gay. It's
Speaker 1: still very a touch, yes, it can be.
Speaker 4: But I think that.
Speaker 2: Usually when people, when people refer to circuit parties in
Speaker 2: a disparaging way, they're more referring to like the drug
Speaker 2: usage and the like over sexualized, which like definitely is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, the more you have, the more you know.
Speaker 1: This one says, I have long been a bottom. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I ever chose that path, but it
Speaker 1: shows me to go off. My first time having sex,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what top or bottom really meant, but
Speaker 1: I met a hot guy and he wanted to put
Speaker 1: it in and he did and I loved it. Also,
Speaker 1: no mess Hodelujah. But in hearing you talk about your
Speaker 1: sexual journey and becoming verse, I was curious about what
Speaker 1: that would look like for myself. I've never taught before,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's a lot of work and
Speaker 1: I have anxiety of finishing too soon. But I don't
Speaker 1: want to deny myself pleasure just because of pre performance anxiety.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about your journey from bottom to verse?
Speaker 1: Both the logistics but also the emotional side of things.
Speaker 3: Damn loaded, uh, poet laureate poet lauriate.
Speaker 1: Loaded loaded in the way we're like, yeah, what do
Speaker 1: you what do y'all?
Speaker 5: I guess that all makes sense.
Speaker 3: I like, I feel like that I can relate to
Speaker 3: that journey, especially as like a young.
Speaker 1: Gay, Like, are y'all verse? Do you mind if I asked,
Speaker 1: I am?
Speaker 4: I am very very verse? Okay, very verse.
Speaker 5: Cody's more verse than I am.
Speaker 2: I'm I am technically verse, but I'm I don't really
Speaker 2: act on it regularly.
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna say that I would categorize myself
Speaker 3: as verse top, but I get curious with my need
Speaker 3: to say that in some sort of like does it
Speaker 3: is there some sort of shame that I need to
Speaker 3: like put that like, Okay, I'm versed but like more
Speaker 3: of a top. But I think it just depends on
Speaker 3: the partner, and I gravitate towards bottoms more frequently.
Speaker 4: So that's that's that. So that's the answer to your
Speaker 4: question on that.
Speaker 3: As far as this person I think all of those
Speaker 3: worries are I don't want to say legitimate, but they
Speaker 3: make a lot of sense, especially if you start out
Speaker 3: as a I've had this conversation though, I feel like
Speaker 3: I had this conversation with wand like which which position
Speaker 3: is actually more anxiety inducing because as a bottom, you're
Speaker 3: constantly worrying if things are not going to go well,
Speaker 3: you know, like especially in the early days, especially before
Speaker 3: you figure things out. And then on the other side,
Speaker 3: you're like, are you gonna get hard? Are you gonna
Speaker 3: last long enough? Are you gonna, you know, be able
Speaker 3: to take control? So it's it's an anxiety on both ends.
Speaker 2: I feel like, to me that what you just said,
Speaker 2: the fact that I don't have anxiety topping tells me
Speaker 2: I'm more comfortable being a top.
Speaker 5: That makes sense, Like it's it's something that I.
Speaker 2: Enjoy more on your bottomy, you have the anxiety. I
Speaker 2: don't have the anxiety if I've prepared myself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but there's always there's always.
Speaker 1: Room for error, is a lack of anxiety because you
Speaker 1: do it less right, Like I had anxiety around topping
Speaker 1: for a long time. I was a bottom first, but
Speaker 1: then I became a top, and now I don't have
Speaker 1: anxiety over either, like both both is more about like
Speaker 1: in front.
Speaker 4: Of even with new partners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, yeah, I'm I'm I feel confident in
Speaker 1: my topping now, which took time to get to, but
Speaker 1: I feel confident in that. I don't have anxiety about either.
Speaker 1: It's more so what do I want to do and
Speaker 1: what does this partner want?
Speaker 3: Did your top exploration come through like a partner, like
Speaker 3: a long time part my uh.
Speaker 1: No, it actually happened when we started opening our relationship.
Speaker 1: So I was a very much a bottom in our
Speaker 1: in our monogamous relationship, and then we opened it. And
Speaker 1: I think what happened was that there were guys that
Speaker 1: I was connecting to because I really love an emotional connection.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean I'm trying to be your boyfriend, but I
Speaker 1: like that that helps me have better, better sex. And
Speaker 1: so I was connecting with these guys. But then it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're a bottom than like now we're two bottoms and that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I want to be able to,
Speaker 1: you know, enjoy this with you and not have it
Speaker 1: stopped because we're too bottoms. So that's where the beginning
Speaker 1: of exploring began, and I started it with people that
Speaker 1: the stakes were low, so it wasn't you know, it
Speaker 1: was just like a.
Speaker 3: Random But I think that's also a key word that
Speaker 3: you said was connection. It's like, you can I think
Speaker 3: you can have low stakes connection even.
Speaker 4: With a with a hookup.
Speaker 3: Sure, yea saying it's like even if you meet someone
Speaker 3: on grinder, it's like, let's go meet for drinks and
Speaker 3: like let's chat for like an hour and like get
Speaker 3: to know each other a little bit.
Speaker 4: Just go fuck.
Speaker 3: It helps and take some of that take some of
Speaker 3: that off. And I think someone who's exploring wanting to
Speaker 3: talk more. I think it's it's trying to do it
Speaker 3: with someone where there is yeah, maybe low stakes and
Speaker 3: a little bit more connection. It's hard to communicate like
Speaker 3: I've never done this, but I don't know. I also
Speaker 3: would find it hot if someone was like, hey, I'm
Speaker 3: not really been taught, I haven't tapt much and I
Speaker 3: would really love to like do it with you, do
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and that's really helpful to say at the top,
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the interaction, because the person who
Speaker 2: knows this can be a little bit.
Speaker 5: More amenable expectations.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's not going to be a flawless performance, but
Speaker 2: like going to see what's going on here, you know,
Speaker 2: you know. The listener also said something to the effect
Speaker 2: of like topping is a lot of work, which like
Speaker 2: it's interesting because to me, I think that topming is
Speaker 2: a lot of work. To me that bottoming is a
Speaker 2: lot of work, is what I was going to What
Speaker 2: I was saying is like I think both. It just
Speaker 2: is a different mindset of like the topping, Yeah, work,
Speaker 2: you say hard, you got to make sure you lost
Speaker 2: a certain time, You got to make sure like they're
Speaker 2: enjoying themselves. What if you're not like rough enough for
Speaker 2: the type of top that they want, or you're too
Speaker 2: rough or you're correct.
Speaker 1: Topping for me, for me, has more mental aerobics because
Speaker 1: of that, whereas like bottoming, like once you're in, you're in,
Speaker 1: and it's mostly I'm dealing with like position and like okay,
Speaker 1: let's change position. Whereas for topping, I am thinking about
Speaker 1: like the mental aerobics of don't come right now, or
Speaker 1: like how am I like again, do you want this?
Speaker 1: I'm in charge? Which no always sometimes even power a bottom,
Speaker 1: but like am I flipping you enough? Am I doing
Speaker 1: this enough? Like I feel like I get I feel
Speaker 1: like maybe I'm critiquing my top performance more than my
Speaker 1: bottom performance because I think the bottoming work for me
Speaker 1: happens before, whereas the topping happens during.
Speaker 5: Correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like pre production work and then production work. Yes,
Speaker 2: I would say all of those, all of those like
Speaker 2: mind games that that we just talked about while during topping.
Speaker 2: I've really only ever experienced those thoughts when I'm having
Speaker 2: sex with a new person or or I'm having sex
Speaker 2: with someone that I've wanted to have sex with for
Speaker 2: a long time, yes, and I want to really impress
Speaker 2: them and I want to maybe do it again.
Speaker 5: So I'm like, well, this has to be the best, and.
Speaker 3: So like, yay, you want the first to be impressive
Speaker 3: so that you're gonna get invited back.
Speaker 2: Correct, and so that's where those things and then you're like,
Speaker 2: you're actually not even performing the way you usually perform
Speaker 2: because you're in your head.
Speaker 4: It's like this has happened to me, but not but not.
Speaker 3: There was this guy if it was the cutest, so hot,
Speaker 3: we hooked up went great second time.
Speaker 5: I was so in my fucking head and it just like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so annoying.
Speaker 5: I feel like such a flop.
Speaker 1: How do y'all get out of your head? Do you
Speaker 1: have any like tricks to getting out of your head?
Speaker 1: Or is it still like a thing that you you
Speaker 1: wrestle with As.
Speaker 3: Much of a whore as I am, I would say that,
Speaker 3: like your statement of like connection and like is important,
Speaker 3: and like I try to prioritize that a little bit more,
Speaker 3: even if it's a casual encounter, even it's just a hookup,
Speaker 3: like trying to make some sort of connection.
Speaker 5: And I think even you can.
Speaker 3: Do that in the way that you approach, like say
Speaker 3: it's an app, Like I think even the way that
Speaker 3: you you know, there's some apps where it's just like, hey,
Speaker 3: are you free, let's fuck come over right now. You know,
Speaker 3: like there's no connection even in that process. But if
Speaker 3: you can like chat with somebody online, make a few jokes,
Speaker 3: know a little bit of the interest, have some form
Speaker 3: of communation, you're already feeling a little bit more comfortable
Speaker 3: in that situation, then just yes, it's transactional, but there's
Speaker 3: there's a little substance there, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I that's I really prioritize that, like I got
Speaker 1: over the like, oh let's fuck right now, I realize
Speaker 1: that those hookups never are as exceptional as I want
Speaker 1: them to anyway. So the people that I can like
Speaker 1: make jokes with and whatever, then like we're there's a
Speaker 1: foundation of communication so that the moment if something happens,
Speaker 1: I don't We've already made jokes with each other. So
Speaker 1: I don't feel weird about saying, hey, I'm having a
Speaker 1: little issue here or I just seen a moment and
Speaker 1: like I'll be back to it or whatever.
Speaker 2: How I get out of my head, like famously for
Speaker 2: myself is just to take a break.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And sometimes like if you get good at it,
Speaker 2: you can take a break and the other person doesn't
Speaker 2: even know you're taking a break. Oh well, say you're
Speaker 2: doing something and you start getting in your head. There's
Speaker 2: other things you can do that don't always involve penetration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yea, I know.
Speaker 5: But the whole time that you're doing the other thing,
Speaker 5: you're thinking, like you're like, okay, I'm gonna switch my mouth.
Speaker 2: But like now I'm like okay, like oh see, see
Speaker 2: for me, I I treat it as a break, like
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not like taking a break. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm taking a break too, Like I'm taking a break
Speaker 2: from that right now. And so for me because especially
Speaker 2: going to what you guys a talking about with connection,
Speaker 2: For me, if I'm in my head, I try and
Speaker 2: go back to the connection, so I go for more kissing.
Speaker 2: So then they're like, let's go and just kiss because
Speaker 2: like it's the same thing with time when you like
Speaker 2: you're hooking up at the bottom and they're like, uh
Speaker 2: like that sometimes they need more time before they can
Speaker 2: do that, you know. So it's like kind of the
Speaker 2: same thing happens if you were getting in your head
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, it's about to be over or whatever
Speaker 2: you're spiraling about, It's like, okay, then just go back
Speaker 2: to that initial the start of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that. It's like knowing what your turn
Speaker 1: ons are like besides putting the dick in the hole,
Speaker 1: like if making out or having your nipples sucked or
Speaker 1: eating ass, like if those like if you put a
Speaker 1: dick in my mouth, like I will be rock hard.
Speaker 1: If you put your ass in my face, I'll be
Speaker 1: rock hard. So if I'm having issues while penetration, if
Speaker 1: I can just go back to those things, go.
Speaker 4: Back to the thing that stimulates.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then like then I'm ready and you give yourself
Speaker 1: permission to like not have to be whatever.
Speaker 5: Interesting.
Speaker 3: I remember a few years ago meeting a guy. We
Speaker 3: had a great connection on Fireland.
Speaker 4: We hooked up on fire.
Speaker 3: Island and they're like, oh, let's continue, Like I want
Speaker 3: to see you in the city. Oh no, Well we
Speaker 3: met up. We met up, and we had like a
Speaker 3: little day date. Then we came back here and we
Speaker 3: were hooking up and both of us were like not
Speaker 3: getting hard. But then we both were like, I don't
Speaker 3: know what's going on right now, but we just let's
Speaker 3: take a break. And he was like, yeah, me too.
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, great, you know, like totally fine.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if we I don't know if
Speaker 3: we finished hooking up in that moment, But then we
Speaker 3: met up for another day and it was on like
Speaker 3: Donkey Kong. So I'm saying like, there's like sometimes it's
Speaker 3: just time both parties are in their heads sometimes like
Speaker 3: over communicating.
Speaker 5: It doesn't it doesn't mean it necessarily kills the mood,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 1: Being safe enough to both of you say oh I'm
Speaker 1: not something's off. I think maybe unintentionally made you closer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the next time it was like, oh, I feel
Speaker 1: safe with this person.
Speaker 3: It's also to be as gracious as possible in those
Speaker 3: scenar areas because like we've all been through it. So
Speaker 3: like sometimes when it's like things aren't working out and
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I'm sorry, and they're like, it's totally fine.
Speaker 3: I think you need to believe them and just trust,
Speaker 3: you know, like, hey, well and also okay, like we're good,
Speaker 3: don't worry well.
Speaker 2: And also even if they aren't telling you the truth
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, ever nice they don't want to engage
Speaker 2: in that moment, and that's also fine.
Speaker 5: It's like it's always better to be like, you know
Speaker 5: what another time.
Speaker 2: But there have been times where that's happened, something similar
Speaker 2: like that has happened, and we just didn't. We just
Speaker 2: took a pause in that moment and then started back
Speaker 2: up later in the evening, you know, have a cocktail,
Speaker 2: watch something, you know, and give it a little bit
Speaker 2: more time to cook.
Speaker 5: But I'm I'm a firm believer in breaks. I think
Speaker 5: break Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that. So both of you started out as
Speaker 1: tops and then became verse or were you early in.
Speaker 5: Your When I was younger, I was I didn't even
Speaker 5: I was so scared to top.
Speaker 3: So I was just like sure. My first yeah, my
Speaker 3: first two like penetrative partners, I was the bottom. But
Speaker 3: like in my second boyfriend in college, he was like,
Speaker 3: I want you to fuck me, and then I did
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh wait, I'm this is sligh,
Speaker 3: Like I'm down for this. So then it then like
Speaker 3: my next relationship, I was mostly the top.
Speaker 5: And mine's not not that far off from yours.
Speaker 2: When I lost my virginity, I was bottoming, and then
Speaker 2: that was you know, when I was a baby, I
Speaker 2: was a baby, I was in high school, and then
Speaker 2: when I started having boyfriends, I've been a top and
Speaker 2: all my boyfriends, you know, but then like you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes I'll be like a little verse moment here and there,
Speaker 2: but for the most part, that's the way it has
Speaker 2: panned out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think where I currently stand, like my
Speaker 3: ideal partner would be as verse as I am, or
Speaker 3: maybe leans a little bit more bottom.
Speaker 1: And when you were saying like I'm the verse top
Speaker 1: versus verse, what and this I'm asking this, but there's
Speaker 1: actually no I'm curious, like what makes a person decide
Speaker 1: to say versus top versus just saying verse or versus bottom.
Speaker 4: Okay, So actually.
Speaker 3: I was dating someone and when we first met and
Speaker 3: first hooked up, he.
Speaker 4: Was the top.
Speaker 3: And then the time that we spent together, like back
Speaker 3: to back consecutively, his stomach was messed up. So he
Speaker 3: was like, I can't bottom and or I can't bottom.
Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay. Then some time went around
Speaker 3: and he was like, so I think he was getting
Speaker 3: in his head of like is this bitch a bottom?
Speaker 3: And like I'm I'm not know if I'm signing up
Speaker 3: what I'm signing up for. And so he asked me
Speaker 3: straight up, he was like, are you are you verse?
Speaker 3: Are you a bottom or like whatever? And I was like,
Speaker 3: I would consider myself a verse top because I would
Speaker 3: say I top in my years of experience, probably a
Speaker 3: to a seventy thirty percentage, if that makes sense, So
Speaker 3: like seventy percent of the time I'm topping, thirty percent
Speaker 3: I'm bottoming. But so I would say that my preference
Speaker 3: lies in that, and like a I like a partner
Speaker 3: to have like a submissive side. I like a partner
Speaker 3: to let me have control. I like that more than
Speaker 3: I like I don't want to say giving control, but
Speaker 3: just I think the you like being more dombed than
Speaker 3: I like being more dominant, But I also like to
Speaker 3: be submissive. But it's just I think I lean into
Speaker 3: being more dominant in the bedroom more than I do submissive.
Speaker 1: Gotcha.
Speaker 5: I think it's about just clarity.
Speaker 2: I think like saying verse top to me or verse
Speaker 2: bottom or verse is very helpful when people are honest
Speaker 2: with what they're saying, because then you're like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is somebody who is open to bottoming, but it has
Speaker 2: more experience or more enjoyment topping. So then if I
Speaker 2: am choosing to engage with them with insects, then I
Speaker 2: can decide if that's somebody that I feel compatible with.
Speaker 5: Like I think it would be more compatible.
Speaker 3: I think I would be compatible with a verse bottom
Speaker 3: because I'm I'm thinking they're going to be bottoming way
Speaker 3: more in our relationship or our journey together. But I
Speaker 3: can depend on them to like flip it up and
Speaker 3: like turn me out.
Speaker 5: But this only works if everybody's honest about what they're saying.
Speaker 1: Very true, because they'd be lying. People be lying.
Speaker 2: And I think also what we're kind of like lightly
Speaker 2: touching on here is like there is a stigma where
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't want like to admit when
Speaker 2: they're bottom because there's bottom shaming and whatnot. So I
Speaker 2: think that, like it's also important to not a don't
Speaker 2: do that because that's silly. But then just there are
Speaker 2: verse top like I would call you and I both
Speaker 2: verse tops. So it's like that does exist as long
Speaker 2: as it's like it exists, but not in opposition to.
Speaker 1: Or not not ashamed of it. Just is Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that I will say whenever I see someone
Speaker 1: that's just like I'm a bottom, I find that so hot.
Speaker 1: And when they're just a top, there are times when
Speaker 1: I find that hot. But go ahead.
Speaker 3: So I when someone says to me that they're a
Speaker 3: total top, it is such a turnoff to me.
Speaker 5: It is such a turnoff to me. Depends it's the
Speaker 5: over six three.
Speaker 1: If there are a total top, I get worried that
Speaker 1: they're not going to actually fuck.
Speaker 5: Well, agree, because.
Speaker 4: How do you know? How do you know how to
Speaker 4: fuck if you've never been fucked?
Speaker 1: Come on, talk about it to me.
Speaker 2: To me, a total top kind of reminds me of
Speaker 2: like you know, the kindsy scale, how they say, if
Speaker 2: you're like really all the way hetero, like, something might
Speaker 2: be a little off.
Speaker 3: Well, that's my fear is that there's some un there's
Speaker 3: some process things going on there that you.
Speaker 5: Don't something's off.
Speaker 3: But I guess there's an exception of someone like there's
Speaker 3: a top. Maybe there's been a top that says like
Speaker 3: I'm a top, but I have tried and it's just
Speaker 3: not for me.
Speaker 1: And that's also tea. We had a doctor Evin Goldstein
Speaker 1: on and we talked about buttholes, and there are certain
Speaker 1: buttholes that really cannot take anything like it's like it
Speaker 1: really is painful.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, doctor Goldstein. Yes, doctor, he has fixed
Speaker 2: many holes in this city.
Speaker 1: Ready holes maybe in your city in la. But do
Speaker 1: you think the tight hole is like a they just
Speaker 1: need to be loosened up? Like have you like have
Speaker 1: you noticed it like oh, if you might just need
Speaker 1: me to eat this longer, or we might need to
Speaker 1: do more fingers.
Speaker 3: Correct, there needs to there needs to be a little
Speaker 3: bit more of a like pre that is fair. I
Speaker 3: can be a little impatient and I just want to
Speaker 3: go for it, so that that isn't fair, And I'll
Speaker 3: take that feedback.
Speaker 2: Well, and I will say, I will say the few
Speaker 2: times that I bottomed in my days that it has
Speaker 2: gone a lot better when I was I had been
Speaker 2: allowed to take my time. Yes, yes, absolutely, just like
Speaker 2: just like when the person who was topping was more
Speaker 2: patient and like and like because because then like like
Speaker 2: you say, it's like once things do loosen and do
Speaker 2: what they're supposed to do, then you can you can
Speaker 2: go in.
Speaker 3: Maybe there's you know, there is no pain. There is
Speaker 3: no pain like a penis entering an asshole that it's
Speaker 3: not quite ready.
Speaker 4: You know what.
Speaker 5: It goes in too quick and it's sharp, and you
Speaker 5: like are like, get.
Speaker 4: The funk out of me, Like.
Speaker 1: I need a moment.
Speaker 5: It takes a moment. You're like, I need a minute.
Speaker 5: Sometimes you need to walk around the room. I need
Speaker 5: to walk out of it.
Speaker 1: I got to get up. I gotta take that's a break.
Speaker 1: We need to take a break. Real Absolutely absolutely Okay,
Speaker 1: So this person, I would say to them, the emotional
Speaker 1: and the the emotional is communication. Find the right partners
Speaker 1: to connect with being able to say to somebody, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to try this out. It's easier maybe in
Speaker 1: a long term relationship, but like you can find a
Speaker 1: partner that you're like, hey, I would like to try
Speaker 1: being a top. I think also allowing yourself to you know,
Speaker 1: letting yourself off the hook of having to be at
Speaker 1: a ten with it, Like you don't need to be
Speaker 1: the world's greatest top when you start. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: to learn how to get there, and you know, you know,
Speaker 1: counter blessings. And then I think also just in terms
Speaker 1: of lasting longer. I don't know if you have any
Speaker 1: lasting longer tips, but for me, it's like stroking yourself.
Speaker 1: Edging yourself is a really great way to build your.
Speaker 3: I mean in practice, in practice, in practice, in practice,
Speaker 3: keegeles keeg goles uh, connecting to the breath.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Also jerking off before you have sex, I
Speaker 1: think is helpful.
Speaker 2: But that can always help, But that can be a
Speaker 2: double edged sword because then you might not be able
Speaker 2: to finish when you.
Speaker 3: Sure, because if you jack off too close to the date,
Speaker 3: you might have a problem of getting it up and
Speaker 3: you might have a problem coming.
Speaker 1: Fair which I don't mind having the problem coming because
Speaker 1: like you'll have a good time with double come. But yes,
Speaker 1: get a dick pill babe if you want, If you need.
Speaker 5: To that's also an option pel keep it up, don't.
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily love a cockering, but if you need
Speaker 3: that too, you could go there too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah does that?
Speaker 5: Does that? Do cock creams prevent you?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: It keeps you hard, it helps you say hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I may possibly it might depending on the person,
Speaker 3: Like maybe it stops you from.
Speaker 2: That is something I feel like like I've I've definitely
Speaker 2: experimented with those, but I do think that there are
Speaker 2: certain people that are.
Speaker 5: Like really into them, and I'm like, wow, you are
Speaker 5: really into this.
Speaker 1: I was into it for a minute. It's kind of hot.
Speaker 1: When I see it. I'm like, oh, you want to fuck.
Speaker 1: Whenever I see a cocker, Oh you're trying to fuck?
Speaker 1: Got it?
Speaker 5: Some crocker. You're better than others.
Speaker 1: That's true, true, true.
Speaker 3: I'm just always like, y'all gonna break y'alls, dick, y'all
Speaker 3: get you get the blood is in there for far
Speaker 3: too long, more than God intended it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I can do a cockering for a moment, and
Speaker 1: then I when I'm like once we're like going, I'm
Speaker 1: like this has to come off so we can, like
Speaker 1: I want to Yeah, all right, Well let me ask
Speaker 1: you the final two questions if we ask everyone here. Okay,
Speaker 1: So the first question is have you ever had sex
Speaker 1: in a porta potti?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: No, multiple times, Wow, at a circuit party.
Speaker 5: Listen, you needed you needed privacy.
Speaker 1: Was it early in the night, was it late in
Speaker 1: the night.
Speaker 5: It was probably during the day. There's been many times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've actually had a four way in a handicap
Speaker 3: porter body. So for yall, in that handicap it was
Speaker 3: a large port body.
Speaker 2: And do you know what and do you know what
Speaker 2: I envisioned as you say that, a line of people
Speaker 2: in wheelchairs.
Speaker 1: Use it the accessibility come on.
Speaker 2: And the porter party is just shaking and they're just
Speaker 2: like like there were other ones.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying it was the it was the it
Speaker 3: was the double wide.
Speaker 1: A little a little porta potty orgy or I guess
Speaker 1: a foursome. Okay. And the last question is what could
Speaker 1: you learn to love about yourself?
Speaker 5: That was that was a shift in gears.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I could learn to love my need for
Speaker 3: assurance and reassurance more.
Speaker 1: That it makes you feel safe, that you like to
Speaker 1: be reaffirmed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, instead of seeing it as a weakness.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I love that I think sometimes people feel
Speaker 1: like we have to do this thing on our own,
Speaker 1: and life is hard. You need you need your people,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you need to be reaffirmed. But yeah, especially
Speaker 1: as a queer person in this world, I would it
Speaker 1: would make sense that you need that reaffirmation or that
Speaker 1: reassurance and that is definitely and if you can find it,
Speaker 1: I think that is the strength, right, Like, that's the
Speaker 1: strength that you have people who can offer that.
Speaker 5: God, Bless my God.
Speaker 2: I mean I would say like I could learn to
Speaker 2: love my need to be seen. And I feel like
Speaker 2: so much of what I do and how I move
Speaker 2: through the world as I am constantly going from different
Speaker 2: people I've met, right going to this group and going
Speaker 2: to this group and helping this person and listening to
Speaker 2: this person.
Speaker 5: But if I really examine what.
Speaker 2: That's about, it is about really feeling the need to
Speaker 2: be seen by people I care about or potential friends
Speaker 2: or creative collaborators.
Speaker 5: And it's something that really exhausts me. I fill my
Speaker 5: days with so many interactions, so I feel oddly burdened
Speaker 5: by the thing that I am seeking as well.
Speaker 1: Oh so finding the balance of it and understanding what
Speaker 1: it actually is so that you can get it in
Speaker 1: a way that isn't burdensome, right, like so that you're
Speaker 1: not over overextending to attain that perception. And when you
Speaker 1: say seen, you mean like as who you are, like
Speaker 1: internally seen or you talking about like I need to
Speaker 1: see people no internally see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I feel like I show up right, like
Speaker 2: I show up here, I show up the boyfriend, I
Speaker 2: show up with other friends, like like I show up
Speaker 2: and you're like, so what, but why do you show
Speaker 2: up right?
Speaker 5: Why?
Speaker 2: Like why when you're tired do you get on the
Speaker 2: four or five to see your friend that lives another part?
Speaker 3: And for clearity, you want someone to affirm and yes,
Speaker 3: okay noted, Yes, yeah I wanted Andrew, thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2: I would say that is the the crux of the matter.
Speaker 5: Love, Like I see you showing up for X because
Speaker 5: I know that you care mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Or or I see your contribution to this like like
Speaker 2: the understood.
Speaker 1: And you could you want to you could want to
Speaker 1: learn how to love needing that affirmation or needing to
Speaker 1: be seen.
Speaker 2: I need to learn how to love needing to be seen, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because because I don't love that, I feel that I need.
Speaker 5: That right now.
Speaker 1: But it's you wanting to be within your community and
Speaker 1: wanting to build your community, and of course you need that.
Speaker 1: Of course you need that. Thank you well so much
Speaker 1: for being here.
Speaker 5: This was thank you. It was awesome, It was incredible, incredible.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your open heart to vulnerability, the laughs,
Speaker 1: the key key and I hope to talk to see
Speaker 1: you see when I'm in New York.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, let us know absolutely all right by y'all.
Speaker 6: Bye, wow wow.
Speaker 1: Well you know we are a hose here, but hose
Speaker 1: with heart. So before we part ways, let me speak
Speaker 1: to yours baby. That was a key. Key, That was
Speaker 1: a key we don't often have. I don't often have
Speaker 1: two guests. I know what's happened a couple of times,
Speaker 1: but I don't often get to have two guests at
Speaker 1: the same time. And whenever there are three of us
Speaker 1: in the studio on the mic, it is such a time.
Speaker 1: And I really really am so grateful to Answer and
Speaker 1: Cody for joining me and for for sharing of themselves.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a couple of dates. Okay, So can
Speaker 1: we can can we can candle oil turn into lube
Speaker 1: or we use as lube? The official answer is. While
Speaker 1: some candle oils that transform into massage oil can be
Speaker 1: used for massage, they're not generally recommended as lubricants. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons why, which you can look up,
Speaker 1: but the short answer is don't use the massage oil
Speaker 1: as loub So I guess Cody would not be getting
Speaker 1: into the candle oil, but I highly recommend if you
Speaker 1: like temp play, find you the candles that are specifically
Speaker 1: for massage, and it's a really fun time and a
Speaker 1: great way to spice up the night. Can you put
Speaker 1: all of it on your face? Yes, the answer is
Speaker 1: you can generally put all of it on your face,
Speaker 1: but they do say it's important to use it cautiously,
Speaker 1: which Andrew was saying you to do. You don't use
Speaker 1: too much because you know, if you're prone to acne,
Speaker 1: can be perhaps uh clog your pores and be a
Speaker 1: little a little too much. Yeah, And buying sex toys
Speaker 1: is actually completely legal. There aren't. It depends on the country,
Speaker 1: but there aren't really age restrictions, but there are some
Speaker 1: in certain areas. There's no federal law that regulates the
Speaker 1: sales sex toys, but there are some states Alabama, Mississippi,
Speaker 1: and Texas, surprise, you can't buy them until you're twenty one.
Speaker 1: Not surprising, devastating, but you know. And then the other
Speaker 1: states the age requirement is eighteen. It's technically there isn't
Speaker 1: an age like a teenager could buy a sex toy,
Speaker 1: but usually the sex toys are let's say, in a
Speaker 1: sex store where you might have to be eighteen or
Speaker 1: older to enter, So that's where your age limit comes in.
Speaker 1: There are you know? I think we are going to
Speaker 1: talk to somebody, you know a little while, hopefully this
Speaker 1: season about sex education with teenagers and how do you
Speaker 1: talk to them about sex toys because I find that fascinating,
Speaker 1: but just wanted to give you an update on that now.
Speaker 1: I also had a a I'm foosballing myself and you
Speaker 1: tell me and let me know. But I was wondering
Speaker 1: if referring to a dick as the quote unquote real
Speaker 1: thing feels offensive or dismissive to those who may exclusively
Speaker 1: use toys, and if so, I apologize because I don't
Speaker 1: mean it as like something that's better or worse. I
Speaker 1: know that sometimes it can feel like that, and for sure,
Speaker 1: you know it's spoken about as that people prefer this
Speaker 1: over that. I guess you could talk about toys as
Speaker 1: being better than the dick, to which you know, tea.
Speaker 1: There are many instances where that is also tea. But
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I'm just thinking about semantics and
Speaker 1: so saying a toy versus the quote unquote real thing.
Speaker 1: I guess we'll say a toy versus you know, the dick.
Speaker 1: But if just let me know if that language feels
Speaker 1: offensive or dismissive. I'm mostly curious. All right, now let's
Speaker 1: get into what I learned. I really love this idea
Speaker 1: of giving yourself permission if you're having anxiety when you're topping,
Speaker 1: to stop. Caramo had said this to us too, where
Speaker 1: he likes to in the middle of sex or you know,
Speaker 1: when there's a natural moment to like stop and get
Speaker 1: out of bed and have a conversation. Do you like that?
Speaker 1: What do you want more?
Speaker 2: Of?
Speaker 1: Which I love? And I think all of this is
Speaker 1: about promoting emotional connection, and so for you know, if
Speaker 1: there's any top anxiety, I think considering how you you,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find a different words to promote, but
Speaker 1: how you bring out the emotional connection will be so beneficial.
Speaker 1: I will say, for penis owners. You know, dicks are
Speaker 1: really so to us or marketed as always needing to
Speaker 1: be ready, just kind of bang bang bang and not
Speaker 1: having any emotions behind it. And so when somebody can't
Speaker 1: get hard, it then becomes a reflection of their not true,
Speaker 1: but it can be taken as a reflection of their manhood.
Speaker 1: I'm not man enough, or I'm not there's a weakness
Speaker 1: here because my dick isn't getting hard on que Men,
Speaker 1: you have emotions too, your emotional beings too, and so
Speaker 1: if your dick isn't working, it's not a reflection of
Speaker 1: your manhood, it's not a reflection of your worth. It
Speaker 1: is just really likely that you need some emotional connection
Speaker 1: and that there's something in your heart and your nervous
Speaker 1: system that's going on and that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 1: And the easiest way to address that is to say it.
Speaker 1: In fact, I will say the times on which topic
Speaker 1: has gotten worse is when I didn't just say to
Speaker 1: my partner, hey, I'm feeling X, Y and Z, or like, oh,
Speaker 1: i don't know why my dick's not working. But if
Speaker 1: we just do, if you stuck on my nipples, it'll
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying like it's like I gotta
Speaker 1: get the When you start like, you know, beating yourself
Speaker 1: on the head, it's got a hard I'm not hard.
Speaker 1: Why I'm not hard? It just gets the spiral just
Speaker 1: makes it worse. And there's you're not gonna come from that, okay, nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing good will come from that, Okay. So consider that
Speaker 1: you might need more emotional communication. And as Cody said,
Speaker 1: over communicating doesn't necessarily ruin the mood. It doesn't ruin
Speaker 1: the mood. And if your over communication with somebody ruins
Speaker 1: the mood quote unquote, that may not be a partner
Speaker 1: for you, whether it's a hookup, a one time thing,
Speaker 1: or a long term thing. But if me communicating makes
Speaker 1: you soft and by that you know, not not soft
Speaker 1: in the way we like, but your dick is soft
Speaker 1: and you can't get hard, then we're probably not a match.
Speaker 1: I want somebody who can connect to how they're feeling.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean we gotta get married, doesn't mean we gotta date,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you know, we're now locked into this. It
Speaker 1: just means that, like in this moment, while we are
Speaker 1: exchanging energies in our bodies or are our naked bodies
Speaker 1: are being vulnerable. Together, we can feel safe knowing that
Speaker 1: we can communicate. I really also love this Cody questioning
Speaker 1: need why he needs to say verse top and you
Speaker 1: know this this conversation about verse top verse bottoms and
Speaker 1: are you really and do verse tops actually exist? And
Speaker 1: the short answers, yes, verse tops do exist. We were
Speaker 1: talking both to Cody and Andrew who identify as verse tops.
Speaker 1: But I do think that Andrew stepping out, You know,
Speaker 1: verse tops exist as long as it's not in opposition
Speaker 1: to bottoms, right, because then we start getting into the
Speaker 1: granular of bottom shaming and people feeling afraid to claim bottom.
Speaker 1: I think it is so sexy when someone claims they're
Speaker 1: bottom hood. But I also recognize, at least for me
Speaker 1: and my generation growing up. You know, it's like you
Speaker 1: can be gay as long as you're not the bottom,
Speaker 1: as long as you're not the one taking the dick.
Speaker 1: What does that, Janet Jackson mean? Oh so you don't
Speaker 1: want to do in a bending you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: there is a way that we culturally do not respect
Speaker 1: a male body having anything up its whole. And here's
Speaker 1: the deal, whether you are gay or straight or whatever,
Speaker 1: you are that booty hall that got the processed out there.
Speaker 1: It feels good to put stuff up there. Now, listen,
Speaker 1: don't be putting everything up there. Put the things that
Speaker 1: are regulated to be up there. But I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know I'm saying, don't end up in the er,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. But it feels good, and
Speaker 1: I wish that we could just accept that anal sex,
Speaker 1: especially on a male body, feels exceptional and like I said,
Speaker 1: a couple weeks so it's not gay at pleasure and
Speaker 1: so there's nothing to be ashamed of. It is part
Speaker 1: of sex and it is a It is a tool
Speaker 1: in your whole box that you should have the right
Speaker 1: to explore and play with. I do agree with this,
Speaker 1: you know, for the total tops, and there are many
Speaker 1: reasons for one to be a total top. One is,
Speaker 1: you know, if your booty hole legit can't take anything,
Speaker 1: which we talked to doctor Evan Goldstein about that on
Speaker 1: the episode about anal botox with Michel Juharry, that some
Speaker 1: people really just can't take anything in there about and
Speaker 1: it takes a lot more, and so that might be
Speaker 1: a reason to be a total top. But if your
Speaker 1: total topness is out of shame. Then it's something to
Speaker 1: be curious about. I do again this sentiment, how do
Speaker 1: you know how to fuck if you've never been fucked?
Speaker 1: I have said to y'all, and I've said on Instagram,
Speaker 1: I said, I think that every person who penetrates, like
Speaker 1: if you are somebody who puts a dick in a hole,
Speaker 1: you penetrate somebody. At some point you put a toll
Speaker 1: toy and somebody's hole. You should have something in your
Speaker 1: hole at least once. I say once, I would say
Speaker 1: once a month, but I'm gonna say once every six
Speaker 1: months at base once a year. But you should at
Speaker 1: least once in your life have something in that hole
Speaker 1: so you know what it feels like that you can
Speaker 1: be a more empathetic piper downer, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: So you know how to tole work it a little bit.
Speaker 1: I really think straight guys, this is also for you
Speaker 1: to put something in your hole so you understand that, like,
Speaker 1: you gotta warm that thing up. It needs loub. You
Speaker 1: can't just shove it in. It wants to be played
Speaker 1: with first. It wants to be talked too nicely first
Speaker 1: before you just put it in. Right. That the main
Speaker 1: event is not just putting a dick in. That's what
Speaker 1: we say in our home manifesto. It's not about penetration.
Speaker 1: Sex is not about penetration. I used to say sex
Speaker 1: is not just about penetration, but I want to say, period,
Speaker 1: it's not about penetration. Sex is so much more expansive
Speaker 1: than that. And so if all you're doing is racing
Speaker 1: to get the dick in a hole and you don't
Speaker 1: even know that you're supposed to eat it first I
Speaker 1: add some lube on it. Then I'm really suggest that
Speaker 1: you you for your own learning and expansive and expansiveness, Uh,
Speaker 1: have a partner or you know, go to the sex store,
Speaker 1: get you your own toy and explore. Get you a
Speaker 1: little mirror, look at your whole, you know, put put
Speaker 1: a little dial do in, a little little training butt
Speaker 1: pluck in there. It's gonna it's gonna make you a
Speaker 1: It's gonna make you better at fucking. I promise you that.
Speaker 1: As Andrew said, bottoming goes better when the top goes
Speaker 1: slow and takes time, because, as Cody said, there's no
Speaker 1: pain like a dick that goes into fast. My god,
Speaker 1: it is sharp. It is sharp as Andrew said, sometimes
Speaker 1: I need to walk around the room. It's true. It's true.
Speaker 1: When it goes into fast ah the pulse. Anyone who knows,
Speaker 1: I know you felt it because we've all experienced. You're like,
Speaker 1: nah nah nah, chilled, chill, where's the loube babe? Let
Speaker 1: me uh no pain like it? So rule of thumb
Speaker 1: for a top go slow. You can get to the
Speaker 1: jat camera if you want. You can get to those deep,
Speaker 1: deep deep strokes. Absolutely, but you do have to ease in, Okay. Absolutely. Anyways,
Speaker 1: this was so much fun. I love talking to Andrew
Speaker 1: and Cody. I'm so grateful that they were here with us,
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful you're here with me. Oh. Also,
Speaker 1: if you want more mess please join me on my
Speaker 1: subsack Brandoncogubman dot subseack dot com. Every Monday I do
Speaker 1: messy Mondays at night. This next week we're doing a
Speaker 1: Kei key with Hunter Harris Pop Culture Queen at nine
Speaker 1: pm Eastern six pm Pacific. All you have to do
Speaker 1: to subscribe. It's free and you have access to all
Speaker 1: the live streams and the replays if you're not able
Speaker 1: to make it live, and then if you pay, which
Speaker 1: is five dollars a month. You become a paid subscriber,
Speaker 1: you get access to more goodies which include essays and
Speaker 1: and the group chats. Plus of course my mini substack
Speaker 1: pod called Hey everybody, and I'm going to play a
Speaker 1: little clip for you right now because I went to
Speaker 1: see Cowboy Charts Are and it was phenomenal and I
Speaker 1: had a great time, and I want to review it
Speaker 1: for you. But more importantly, the title is that Beyonce
Speaker 1: is a living after deity and a mother of sexual liberation,
Speaker 1: and I mean that from my gut. It it was
Speaker 1: I know that, and I know that intrinsically. But after
Speaker 1: going to now Renaissance and then back to back Cowboy
Speaker 1: Carter it being in the same location and a lot
Speaker 1: of the same dancers and whatnot, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is this is the way that we are screaming
Speaker 1: right now, the way that she has us in this chokehold.
Speaker 1: There's something that she is tapping into and I really
Speaker 1: believe it is our sexual liberation and her emulating that. Anyways,
Speaker 1: listen to the clip. Listen to the clip. Listen to
Speaker 1: the clip. How sexually liber rated she is and how
Speaker 1: how we as a global audience are attracted to that
Speaker 1: even though especially in America, we don't know how to
Speaker 1: talk about sex. It's and I was talking about this
Speaker 1: in the post that I did on Monday right like
Speaker 1: that we are a culture that is sexually repressed but
Speaker 1: also obsessed with sex, and that juxtaposition creates confusion, I
Speaker 1: think in many of us individually in our day to
Speaker 1: day because we are exposed to so much sexuality, and
Speaker 1: yet we're also told that who we are as sexual
Speaker 1: beings needs to be you know, put in a box
Speaker 1: or isn't correct, or it is weird or complicated or
Speaker 1: sin and that's confusing. But what you get from going
Speaker 1: to what I got from going to Renaissance for sure,
Speaker 1: and didn't even expect it at Cowboy Carter, but even
Speaker 1: more so was the freedom to stand in one's sexiness
Speaker 1: and sexuality. And you know, I think that for Beyonce,
Speaker 1: there was a really clear shift in that with the
Speaker 1: Beyonce album. I think that she's been hyper sexualized since
Speaker 1: that very first album. I was telling about Disney's Child
Speaker 1: like they were all like, you know, this is what
Speaker 1: our culture does. We take you know, young women and
Speaker 1: we hyper sexualize them, and that is often used to
Speaker 1: sell CDs and well no longer CDs, but sell music,
Speaker 1: sell products, sell whatever. And I really obviously as a
Speaker 1: pop star, you know, our female pop stars are experiencing
Speaker 1: that on such a high scale. And I think after
Speaker 1: she had Blue and this Beyonce album came out, there
Speaker 1: was such a clear taking back of that narrative where
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm going to own I mean, like a partition,
Speaker 1: right y'all. Remember y'all remember that fucking video and that
Speaker 1: song Okay Rocket, you know, I mean like these songs
Speaker 1: that were just like, oh, she fucks, Oh she fucks,
Speaker 1: and she's not afraid to talk about it. Oh oh
Speaker 1: you know, Like, yes, honey, it's for if you are
Speaker 1: if you are a stan of Beyonce, you're gonna love
Speaker 1: this episode. If you are curious or you're not gonna
Speaker 1: be able to make it to the show, you're gonna
Speaker 1: love it. If you've already seen it or about to
Speaker 1: see it, you will. It's you know, I love to
Speaker 1: nerd out like this, and I don't often get the
Speaker 1: chance to to nerd to to incorporate my love of
Speaker 1: talking about sex and relationships and sexuality with my love
Speaker 1: of music and fashion and pop culture. So to be
Speaker 1: able to talk about the intersection only of those things
Speaker 1: is really exciting to me. So, Brandonkogodman dot subsac dot come,
Speaker 1: I think it's everything. I love you. You can find
Speaker 1: me on Instagram as well at Brandon Kyle Goodman. You
Speaker 1: can find our podcasts at tell Me Something Messy, and
Speaker 1: you can join our community on the Messy Monday's substack.
Speaker 1: When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts, recommendations on sex
Speaker 1: and self and so much more. Also, I want to
Speaker 1: hear from you, so send your topic ideas, your messy stories,
Speaker 1: your submissions, uh, your game ideas to tell Me Something
Speaker 1: Messy at gmail dot com. You can also call us
Speaker 1: at six six nine sixty nine Messy. That is six
Speaker 1: six nine six nine six three seven seven nine. Rate
Speaker 1: review and share this podcast with all your hoe and
Speaker 1: aspiring HOE friends. Really really helps the show out, all right.
Speaker 1: Until next time, ask about the politics of that dick
Speaker 1: before you make it spit, make sure they eat the
Speaker 1: kitty before they beat the kitty before or fucation or
Speaker 1: sucation communication. And in case you haven't heard it yet,
Speaker 1: today you are so deeply loved. I love you, bye,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, for listening to Tell Me Something Messy.
Speaker 1: If you all enjoyed the show, send me episode to
Speaker 1: someone else who might like it. Tell Me Something Messy
Speaker 1: was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins, and Yours Truly.
Speaker 1: Our producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio and The Outspoken Network, visit the iHeartRadio app
Speaker 1: or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.