1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing position and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode forty three where we 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: will be talking about Off the Clock, which is a 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: book I wrote that is out today. If you're listening 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: to this on the day that this podcast comes out 14 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: May twenty nine, if you're listening to it afterwards, it 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: should be available now. So exciting. So you've probably been 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: counting down to this day for quite a while. Yeah, 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: we got the pub date. You get the pub date 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: close to a year ahead of time. I mean the book. 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: The traditional book publishing process US is lengthy. I guess 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: it's one way to describe it. We assigned a publication 21 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: date probably in summer of twenty seventeen. I actually know 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: that my next publication date after this is March twelfth, 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, So I have that set. Anyone wants to 24 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: mark their calendars now, But yeah, I know I've been 25 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: counting down for a while. That's so exciting, And so 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: what's the plan. Is there going to be a big celebration. 27 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: I can imagine some sort of like you know, literary 28 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: party where everyone gets together and talks about the book 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: and you read a little passage, but maybe that's a 30 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: little Hollywood. Yeah, there'll be a small tist with some 31 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: people in New York, so I'm looking forward to that. 32 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: But oh, but that's exciting. That is kind of like 33 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: what I picture exact. So you're going to New York 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: with like your agent and your editor and yeah, a 35 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: lot of people who are involved in it, and you know, 36 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: various people. I know, we're you know all that, and 37 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: husband awesome toast its launch. I you know, book parties 38 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: sort of add to the work, but it's good to feel. 39 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: It helps you feel like a real author. Well, I 40 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: totally if I live closer to you, I would be 41 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: wrangling for an invite right now. How about a book tour? 42 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: Any plans to go on the road with us. I 43 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: mean I sort of travel to talk about my books 44 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: in the sense of doing a lot of speaking engagements 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: for you know, companies and conventions. As it is, so 46 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: I don't really have any specifically that we go to 47 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: talk about the book. The honest trait is live events 48 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: aren't really necessarily a great way to sell books. Oh interesting, Yeah, Now, 49 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: I think a lot of authors sort of have this 50 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: idea of like, oh, I need to spend a month 51 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: on book tour, going various places that you know, you 52 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: go speak in a like there'll be places that'll be 53 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: happy to have you come speak for free about your book. 54 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: I mean, people are, you know, looking for speakers. But 55 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, I've had people tell me that they go 56 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: to a whole event and they for a bookseller and 57 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: then like, you know, maybe three people buy a book. 58 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: Like people don't like the only way to sort of 59 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: really make that work is if you have a ticket 60 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: price for the event, people get a book as part 61 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: of the ticket price. Then you sort of like force them. 62 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: But you know, it's just really the reason people buy 63 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 1: books is that they feel like they have a relationship 64 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: with the author, They're interested in the topic, the readers 65 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: for starters, they are interested in the topic and know 66 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: the book is out and that they feel they have 67 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: a relationship with the author. So a lot of that 68 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: happens more virtually these days. I mean, it can be 69 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: through media, but it's also through things like being on 70 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: people's podcasts and the podcaster recommends it, or you know, 71 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: on people's blogs, like you do an interview on somebody's 72 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: blog and then the blogger recommends it. Social media channels 73 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So yeah, a lot of that 74 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: so interesting. I wonder if to some extent, some of 75 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: these book towards you see are more about getting the 76 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: media attention about the tour than the tour itself, because 77 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about, you know, some popular authors that it 78 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: seems like, yeah, maybe they put all by putting their 79 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: tour on Instagram, they're getting more traffic to Instagram. So 80 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: it's not the tour, it's I'm saying, it's a little meta. Yeah. Well, 81 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: and also it sort of depends. I mean, if you're 82 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: really well known, like if you're a celebrity in your 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: own right, like then people will come to see you. 84 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily about the book. It's that they're 85 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: coming to see you, which is fine. Again, but if 86 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: you are not that person, like if you are not 87 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: a celebrity in your own right, not that many people 88 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: come out for stuff, it's really hard to make it work. 89 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: So you know, if you're interested in being efficient as 90 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: an author, a lot of virtual events, I mean, so 91 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, I would love to. I am speaking in 92 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: a couple different places because I have engagements you know, 93 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: already booked, and we'll certainly try to get like local 94 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: media and stuff all in there. But yeah, it's it's 95 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: the whole book tour concept is sort of changing interesting, 96 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: so everybody, I think I announced on the last episode 97 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: that I finished the book just a couple of days ago, 98 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: and it is awesome. So I do want to devote 99 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: today's episode to talking about some of my favorite parts 100 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: and asking you some questions that I had about it. 101 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: The first thing I will say is that it's a 102 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: very quick it's a pretty quick read. It's not short, 103 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: but it's like very readable, and it's the kind of 104 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: book that I don't know if if anyby listened to 105 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: it last week's episode, it's been kind of a rough 106 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: couple of months. It's the perfect kind of a book. 107 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: To pull you out of that kind of a phase 108 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of discussion and this book is 109 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: not specifically written for males or females, but I do 110 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: feel like there's a special nod to the woman going 111 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 1: through the early years with their children, which is challenging 112 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: for many people, and of course many of the listeners 113 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: to this show, and it really just had it had 114 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: a lot of practical tips, but then a lot of 115 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: just sort of deeper food for thought, like and after 116 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: I've finished, I'll talk about specifics. But after I finished it, 117 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: I was actually moved to make some changes. And you 118 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: wouldn't think that since I talked to Laura all the 119 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: time enviously, I mean, like for example, and then I'm 120 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: just yacking about on the podcast. Yeah, No, I mean 121 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: I was. It solidified my intent to go on our 122 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: spring break trip for example. Good But before we go 123 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: into that, reminder listeners of how the project came to 124 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: be and what the March Monday exactly is. Well. So 125 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: I kind of got the idea for off the Clock 126 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: when I was running in Maine, just on a morning 127 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: where I had no obligations whatsoever, which is a rare thing. 128 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: So this phrase popped into my head as I was running, 129 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: like oh, I'm off the clock, and I'm like, oh, 130 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: that'd be a good thing to write a book about. 131 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: So I've worked with my publisher sort of get it 132 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: into a good shape of like what we thought would 133 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: be a good book, and then to have the book 134 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: of it. What I actually did is exploring this idea 135 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: of how we feel about time, like what makes us 136 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: feel relaxed about time or stressed about time? What makes 137 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: us feel like we have a lot of time, like 138 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: a lot of good time, and what makes us feel 139 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: more starved for time or feel like it's passing in 140 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: a way we don't like, either passing too quickly at 141 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: times or passing too slowly at other times. And so 142 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: to get some data about this, I did a big 143 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: time diary project where I looked at I had nine 144 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: hundred people with full time jobs and families track their 145 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: time for a day, just because those are the two 146 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: categories that various other time diary studies have found people 147 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: feel the most stressful time. It makes sense like if 148 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: you have a full time job and you have family, 149 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: like those are the things that make people feel like 150 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: they don't have time. So I had these nine hundred 151 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: people track their time for a day, and I asked 152 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: them questions about how they felt about their time, you know, 153 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: whether they felt you know, prisent or distracted, whether they 154 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: felt like they generally had time for the things they 155 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: wanted to do, whether they were spending time in ways 156 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: that made them happy, all sorts of things. Answer you know, 157 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: the questions on a scale of like strongly disagree to 158 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: very strongly agree. Assigned people a score and then look 159 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: at the differences between people who were felt like they 160 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: had a lot of time had a high time perception 161 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: score and people who felt starved for time. So I 162 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: had a low of time perception score. And everyone tracked 163 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: this March Monday. It was Monday, March twenty seven, twenty seventeen, 164 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: normal day, you know, nothing crazy going on on that day, 165 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: but just to say, like, what are the differences and 166 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: how people who feel like they have a lot of 167 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: time spend a normal March Monday and people who don't. 168 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: And so that's what the book is about. The strategies 169 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: that the people who felt like time is abundant used 170 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: to reach that place in their life. And there are 171 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: some you know, real hard statistics in your book that 172 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: I know you talked about how you got help with 173 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: and also I like how you're very careful not to 174 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: always ascribe causation to some of these correlations, but sort 175 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: of hypothesize about them. Like, for example, you talked to 176 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, everyone has that same number of hours in 177 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: the day, and you talked about how, you know, there 178 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: was a slight difference in the number of hours worked, 179 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: but it wasn't enough to explain, you know, how the 180 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: people felt about it. Can you talk about that? Yeah? Different. 181 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: I mean, the truth is almost everyone worked somewhere between 182 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: seven and nine hours on that March Monday, right, Like 183 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, the vast, vast majority of the bell curve 184 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: was within there. The people who had the highest time 185 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: perception scores did work about an hour less on that 186 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: March Monday than the people who had the lowest time 187 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: perception scores. But the thing is, the people with the 188 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: lowest scores weren't very far off the average at all. 189 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: It was it was not that they were working extreme hours. 190 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: Fourteen yeah, fourteen. It was like, you know, the average 191 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: was like eight point three and the people at the 192 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: lowest perception scores were like eight point six. Right, So 193 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: we're talking in difference of like eight, the really close, 194 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: very close, So I really couldn't think that I could assign, 195 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, that as the reason for why they felt 196 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: starved for time. And interestingly enough, their commutes weren't even 197 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: that much different either. I mean, there are a few 198 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: minutes that they were longer, but you know, we're not 199 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: talking gobs of time. And the truth is the those 200 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: differences can pretty much be accounted for by more time 201 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: spent on things like TV for those people who had 202 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: low time perception scores. So it's just different ways we 203 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: allocate time and looking at the question of well, why 204 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: is it what are people doing that makes them feel 205 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: differently about time? And sometimes it's slightly more obvious stuff, 206 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: but sometimes it's really not as obvious stuff. So that 207 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: was interesting too. I love the part about how making 208 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: life more memorable in different ways can really make you 209 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: feel like it's been more rich and like there's been 210 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: more time. And I did you know you mentioned how 211 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: some people say, oh, wow, how did three years just 212 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: go by? And it's like, well, because you were doing 213 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: the same thing every day and your brain kind of 214 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: chunked it into like one day. Yeah, And I think 215 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: there's really something to be said for that, and some 216 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: of that has to do with actually doing things that 217 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: are different, and some of it has to do with 218 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: how we think of them. So I talk about a 219 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: little bit about the different selves the past, present, and future, 220 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: because that definitely resonated with me as well. And this 221 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: kind of story is what made me pull the trigger 222 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: on well, I haven't actually been the work, but decide 223 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: you're going to go on our vacation this summer exactly 224 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: to talk about those selves. Well, so, yeah, I mean 225 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: when we talk about well, I don't where did the 226 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: time go, what we often mean is I don't remember 227 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: where the time went. And when you don't remember that 228 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: where the time went is because the time wasn't particularly memorable, 229 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: And you know, it becomes easy to sort of tramp 230 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: through life doing roughly the same thing over and over again. 231 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: And they could feel very comfortable to do the same 232 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: thing over and over again. And certainly there are times 233 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: in life where routines are very good. It would really 234 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: not be fun to have to think about brushing your 235 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: teeth every morning. I would just waste a lot of 236 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: mental energy. But the problem is when too many of 237 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: these days stack up where you haven't done anything different, 238 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: then they sort of disappear into these memory sinkholes. Our 239 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: perception of time is set by how many memories we 240 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: have of that time. That is one reason that people 241 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: tend to feel like, you know, their early years, like 242 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: the years of say sixteen to twenty four were particularly long, 243 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: because you're setting so many memories during that time period, 244 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: as as you're making major life choice in many cases, 245 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: so the question is, well, how can we make life memorable? 246 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: Then when we're not in you know, sixteen years old 247 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: and naturally forming memories of the first time, we're doing everything. 248 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: And I think one thing you can ask yourself was well, 249 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: how is today going to be different from other days? 250 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: And thinking if there's at least one way that you 251 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: can make today different from other days. But the whole 252 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: idea of these different cells is more getting at the 253 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: philosophical way we view this. If you think about yourself, 254 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: you really kind of three selves. You're in terms of 255 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: our temporal perception, like we have the anticipating self, which 256 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: is looking forward to the future, right, thinking about things 257 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: that are going to happen in the future, our lives 258 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: in the future, all that sort of thing. There is 259 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: the experiencing self, which is kind of who you are 260 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: here and now as you are living life in this moment. 261 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: And then there is the remembering self, which thinks back 262 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: on the past and all the things you've done in 263 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: your life at past points, and so all these kind 264 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: of a role in our identity. And the issue is, 265 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: as I quote this philosopher is saying, is that we 266 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: pamper the present like a spoiled child. And what that 267 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: means is that we give our experiencing selves often a 268 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: lot more attention than these other versions of ourselves. So 269 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: if you think about this in terms of like trying 270 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: to do memorable things with our lives and do fun, 271 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: exciting things, you'd be like, oh, well, the anticipating self 272 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: would really love to go to this art museum exhibit, 273 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: like on a Friday night, Like I know the art 274 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: museum has live music and a bar on Friday night, 275 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: So it would be like this perfect fun Friday night activity, 276 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: like you know, if I could get myself to do it, 277 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: And you know, so the anticipating self is excited about it. 278 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: You know that the remembering self would probably look back 279 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: fondly on it too, like how awesome you're looking at 280 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: these great paintings on a Friday night, maybe you made 281 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: a new friend in the line for Chardonay or something. 282 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: But the end, the experiencing self is the one who 283 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: actually has to get her car and go to the 284 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: museum and has to deal with the traffic and the 285 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: rain and all that, and the experiencing self is tired 286 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: because she just got home from work, and so she 287 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: doesn't want to do it, and so she throws this 288 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: tantrum and be like, yeah, I'm tired. The art museum 289 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: will still be her next Friday, like I don't have 290 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: to do this, And then we wind up spending a 291 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: lot more time on these things that are sort of 292 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: effortless fun, like you know, TV, social media scrolling all that, 293 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: versus this effortful fun like actually getting yourself to the 294 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: art museum. So, you know, it's kind of a thing 295 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: of like saying, well, let's remember this is really a 296 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: three actor play. It shouldn't just be a monologue, and 297 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: so we need to put in memorable stuff and trust 298 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: that if our anticipating self looks forward to it, and 299 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: our remembering self will have enjoyed having done it, probably 300 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: we can power through some of the experiencing self. Yes, 301 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: I mean I think I do think there's a line. 302 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: I mean not always, does it make sense. I remember 303 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: there were like at least two events that I missed 304 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: out on during pregnancy because my experiencing self was just 305 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: so miserable. Like I think there was a concert I 306 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: didn't go to in the spring because I like every 307 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: time I stood up, I wanted to vomit. So there's 308 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: a lie. So you know, you need to find where 309 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: that line is and if it's just kind of like 310 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: mild discomfort like my well, this is sort of anticipatory, 311 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: but I've been thinking about, like, oh, packing and getting 312 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: on the plane with my baby. But the truth is, 313 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: like it is true, I'm not gonna number one. That's 314 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: not what I'm going to really anticipate. I'm gonna be 315 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: thinking about all the fun things I can do with 316 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: my friends and all the fun things available in the Northwest. 317 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: Am I remembering self, I'm sure is not going to 318 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: be fixated on that, or even if it does. We 319 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: have these like really funny memories from the time that 320 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: we went to North Carolina with Annabelle and Cameron, which 321 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: was kind of miserable from an experiencing perspective, at times, 322 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: but there's like also hilarious stories and it brought us 323 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: together as a family, and we have like super cute 324 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: pictures and I think, if there's something great that we did, 325 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: and this chapter really made me kind of think about 326 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: that a lot harder, and it made it kind of 327 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: a no brainer, like we have to go on this 328 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: trip because we're not going to have these little kids again, 329 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: and because we're gonna look back on it finally, and 330 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: because it's going to be exciting about some of the 331 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: fun things that we can do, and the experiencing is 332 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: going to pass. Yeah. I mean, you're gonna get to 333 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: see your friends. If you don't make this trip, like, 334 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: you won't see these friends that you're close to, and 335 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: so your experiencing self is actually going to enjoy it. 336 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: I mean, there's some parts that your experiencing is going 337 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: to enjoy some parts and that's you can enjoy not 338 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: enjoy other parts, but probably the balance the overall is 339 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: going to be But that's the thing. I mean, the 340 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: experiencing self is pretty much never entirely blissful. I mean, 341 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: you could be like out of gorgeous summer night concert, 342 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, beautiful weather, listening to your favorite band, you 343 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: like my toe Witches, you know, I mean, that's be honest, 344 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: or like your your seventy five percent rule with your 345 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: with your kids that if you're out with all four 346 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: of them, even if if okay, Doc, I like my numbers, 347 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: but there's very few things that are truly fun for 348 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: the whole family in the sense that I have four 349 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: generally happy kids. But I have four of them, and 350 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: so if each one of them is happy seventy five 351 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: percent of the time, that means when I have the 352 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: experience ending happy. Yeah, if it's an independent event like 353 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: their uhappiness or happiness like that means that only you know, 354 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: thirty one percent of the time do I actually have 355 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: all four children happy at the same time, Because you know, 356 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: a quarter you know, minus a quarter minus, like you know, 357 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: it adds up. So like once you know that, you 358 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: can be a little bit more philosophical about the real 359 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: And the truth is, if you had done that math 360 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: and said, well, sixty percent of the time, my experiencing 361 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: self is gonna be sad because one kids annoyed, then 362 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: you would never do, never do anything right, And that 363 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: would kind of be too bad too, because then I 364 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: would have, like you know ten years where I've done 365 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: nothing eleven years now. So yeah, no, I think, like 366 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: you said, there's a line like I'm not saying that 367 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: you know, if you are are completely and totally exhausted, 368 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: you're forty one weeks pregnant, and you should like go 369 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: in that marathon tomorrow. No, that there's sometimes that you can't. 370 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: But if you just think there will be a few 371 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: uncomfortable moments, maybe you can push through those and maybe 372 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: those will even create a good story later. So so 373 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: something to think about, and speaking about letting eleven years go, 374 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: you have a whole chapter about not filling time, not 375 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: using not using time mindlessly, and really thinking about what 376 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: you're putting in those calendar slots as you're doing it. 377 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: And I want you to talk about technology a little bit, 378 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 1: and I wanted to share a trick that I really 379 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: liked and I'm going to keep in mind, which is 380 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: the would I do this tomorrow? Yeah. So I think 381 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: in order to have space for adventures in our lives, 382 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: we need to make sure we're not over committed with 383 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: stuff that we don't want to do. And so one 384 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: way to sort of check that tendency, because obviously it 385 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: can be hard to say no, and many women in particular, 386 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: you know, no seems like a bad thing to have 387 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: said to somebody. You're disappointing someone. Oh my goodness, we're 388 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: disappointing someone. Earth will stop spending on its axis. But 389 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: that's why we can honestly think. And so when you're 390 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: asked to do something in the future, like it's hard 391 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: to say no. And the further it is in the future, 392 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: the more people tend to feel like they're assigning it 393 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: to a completely different person, like, oh, yeah, it'll never 394 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: be October or October me won't be busy. Yeah, October, 395 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: we could totally do this, but you know you're going 396 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: to be just as busy in October, like there'll be 397 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: just as much stuff going on. So a better question 398 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: to ask yourself, to sort of bring it more to 399 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: like actually feeling the pain in your experience it self, 400 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: is to say, well, would I do this tomorrow? And 401 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, of course you're busy tomorrow, Like, yes, you're 402 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: booked up solid tomorrow, which, by the way, you will 403 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: be in October as well, But like, would you be 404 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: tempted to cancel stuff? Like would you be tempted to 405 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: move things around to fit in this new opportunity and 406 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: if you would like great, you know, like you probably 407 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: will feel just as excited in October. But if the 408 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: answer is like, absolutely not, no way would I ever 409 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: even be tempted to do this tomorrow, you know, probably 410 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: that should be your answer for October too, Like, don't 411 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: fill time just because it's currently open, because opportunities will 412 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: come up, and maybe an opportunity that's a ten will 413 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: come up, and if you said yes to something that's 414 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: like a six or a seven, well that doesn't leave 415 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: space for the time. Yes, And that's been something that 416 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: I've been trying to be careful about my days off, 417 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: not just putting stuff in there just because the time 418 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: is there, but really kind of thinking about it before 419 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: I commit to anything. So I really liked that try. 420 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm glad the podcast that made totally made the cut. 421 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: I would do this tomorrow, maybe we can. And in 422 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: this chapter you also talked a little bit about the 423 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: role of technology and phones. And by the way, this 424 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: made me think about one of the people who blurved 425 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: your book on the back, cal Newport. It kind of 426 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: rang true with some of his thoughts on technology. Yeah. No, 427 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: I mean because I had this time diary stuff. I've 428 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: found that people who felt most relaxed about their time 429 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: reported checking their phones a lot less frequently than the 430 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: people who felt less stressed. And you know, some of 431 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: that could be a correlation, like if you have a 432 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: more stressful job, maybe you feel like you need to 433 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: check your phone more often. It's not that it was 434 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: the checking the phone that made you stressed. It was 435 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: that you know, you have a stressful job, and that's 436 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: what's making you stressed. It's a different root cause. But 437 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of other research that looks at 438 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: that the same person who checks their phone less frequently 439 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: feels more relaxed than that person checking their phone a lot. 440 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: So you know, sometimes we have to look at our phones, 441 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: right like that's life. But if you can lower the 442 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: frequency a little bit, then you will feel like you 443 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: have more open space and feel like you have more 444 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: time because because there's no question, nothing makes time go 445 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: by more mindlessly and more like, hey, what happened to 446 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: that hour than like, I mean nothing, It like just disappears, appears, 447 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: and we had what it often is it makes people 448 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: feel like they have less free time, even though that 449 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: is one hundred percent like leisure time, and it's just 450 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: that it doesn't feel relaxing, like we had this open 451 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: time and then we chose to chop it up with nothing, 452 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: like nothing important. So I'm not saying get rid of 453 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: the phone. I'm sure a lot of people are listening 454 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 1: to our podcasts on their phones. That's not there's nothing 455 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: wrong with the phones are a wonderful tool. It's just 456 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: a question of are you checking it mindfully or mindlessly? 457 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: And there are ways to kind of catch yourself in it. 458 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: Wants to kind of put it in airplane mode a 459 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: bit more frequently, right because often we're looking at it 460 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: in order to check the time, which you need to 461 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: know the time, like if something's coming up, but you 462 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: don't need to do the other stuff that you then 463 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: do once you open it to see the time. So 464 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: if it's an airplane mode, you won't be able to 465 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: do that. So it's just a little mindfulness check. Yes, 466 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: And we've talked about other kind of technological hacks previously, 467 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: like tracking that specifically in addition to tracking time. And 468 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: I do think that if I ever get good at 469 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: tracking time, I want to do some sort of correlation 470 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: with that moment app to see how things kind of 471 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: like correlate. But no, I thought that that was a 472 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: really good point talk to us about lingering versus saving, 473 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: because you went into both of them and I kind 474 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: of thought of them as the same thing. But you 475 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: there's not really a huge difference between it. I'm using 476 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: the lingering idea in general of trying to stay in 477 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: good moments. Really savoring is the same thing. It's just 478 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: a got a little bit more of the kind of 479 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: pleasurable connotation that not only are you experiencing something enjoyable, 480 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: but you're noticing that you're enjoying it. And by adding 481 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: this second layer, this appreciation layer, you can kind of 482 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: change the experience of time. You can make it seem bigger, 483 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: more exciting, make it more of a memory, so it 484 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: stands out more in your picture of where your time 485 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: is going. And that can make people feel like they 486 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: have more time. So it's really an acquired skill, I 487 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: got to say, because you know, it's like bad stuff 488 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: is right in your face, like you got to deal 489 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: with it. Good stuff not so often, like it's harder 490 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: to actually notice that, like all is okay right now, 491 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: I'm actually enjoying myself. Ooh, look at me. Enjoying myself, like, 492 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: isn't this wonderful? Yeah, it takes a difference out of skills, 493 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: and you mentioned that doing a gratitude list is one 494 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: potential way of forcing yourself to notice those things. There 495 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: definitely was like a mindfulness bent to that chapter, particularly 496 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: for someone who is not into the meditation or kind 497 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: of woo woo sing. I'm more into the practice stuff. 498 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: You know, you can go woo woo if you want, 499 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: like I'm sure people will do that, but it's more 500 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: about like, if you know that something good is coming 501 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: up in your life, you can make sure to stretch 502 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: that experience of time by using a few techniques and 503 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: something I did a couple of months ago. I have 504 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: this piece of music that I really love, the bak 505 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: B Minor Mass, which I was supposed to sing in college, 506 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: but I left for a study a broad thing right 507 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: before the concert, so I never actually got to sing it. 508 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: So I learned the whole thing but never sang it. 509 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: So it's always this like missed thing in my life. 510 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: And it's got the most gorgeous alto solo. And I'm 511 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: in a choir where our professional alto ringer is very 512 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: very good she's got a gorgeous voice, and I was like, 513 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: I would so love to hear her sing this piece. 514 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: And then it wound up on our church calendar. I 515 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: don't know, the fates aligned, and she's gonna granted, she 516 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: was singing it with a you know, piano. She wasn't 517 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: singing it with a full orchestra, which would have been 518 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 1: a lot more awesome, but whatever, she was singing it, 519 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: and so I saw it on the calendar coming up. 520 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: I actually put it as a personal priority for my week, 521 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: like I make I make my priorities for the week ahead. 522 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: On Friday, like I listed listening to her sing that 523 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: as one of my you know, top personal priorities for 524 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: the week. So I knew it was coming up, like 525 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: I made sure, you know, to see it in the 526 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: church bulletin, like I was fully aware as she was 527 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: going forward to singing it, like I'm listening so carefully 528 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: the whole time, like fully aware. And then I made 529 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: sure to like write about it afterwards. So I actually 530 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: remember those four minutes, Like how many four minute chunks 531 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: of life do we actually remember, you know? And so 532 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: I remember those minutes means those four minutes have kind 533 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: of like expanded to be way more than just four minutes. 534 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: And and so we have the power to do that 535 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: when we know we've got good things that we can 536 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: choose to savor. No, I love that. The next thing 537 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: I took I was really excited about and kind of 538 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: inspired about us, particularly for what my life is. Maybe 539 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: a little less crazy not crazy full would be your 540 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: discussion of incremental progress and how people really kind of 541 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: underestimate what you can do a little bit of at 542 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: a time. Yeah, I mean so I talk in one 543 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: of my chapters about this idea of like letting go 544 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: go of big expectations in the short run and just 545 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: having low expectations in the short run, but if they 546 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: are hit consistently, that's what enables big things in the 547 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: long run. I Mean, there's a great you know saying 548 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: from Avid of like dripping water hollows the stone, right, 549 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: And it's not that each little drip of water as 550 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: much on its own, but when they keep going and 551 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: going and going, that's when you basically, you know, get 552 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: the grand Canyon from the water damage, right, Like it's 553 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: it's at least little things that add up over time, 554 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: and little things are actually pretty easy to do as 555 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: long as you just keep doing them. And so, you know, 556 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: I talk about a lot of people who've made choices 557 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: to do these like little things and yet have become 558 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: so productive doing that. So her profile an artist who 559 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: was trying to be very gentle with herself, like, you know, 560 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: instead of forcing herself to be in the studio eight 561 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: hours a day, she'd be like, well, I'm just going 562 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: to make a little bit of art. And when she 563 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: kept making a little bit of art, like, it felt 564 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: really good and the progress felt good, and she wanted 565 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: to keep going. And she, you know, after coming out 566 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: of a creative block, basically put on a show eighteen 567 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: months later, which is really really awesome to have that 568 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: many paintings up and ready and done. Like when she 569 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: stopped beating herself up about this lack of productivity, she's 570 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: really productive. Or a novelist who just basically writes in 571 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: these little scenes and she just keeps going. And because 572 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: she just keeps going and writes these scenes that she's 573 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: planned well and you know, executes these births. She can write, 574 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, ten thousand words a week, and she can 575 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: write a novel in eight weeks and she pretty much 576 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: does uh, and it's just like you know, most of 577 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: us get so like caught up and like, oh, you know, 578 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: how much of my writing am I not writing? It's like, well, 579 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: if you just keep writing your words, you will get 580 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: a lot written. But you have to keep going. Or 581 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: if you keep running your onele you have run a 582 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: lot of miles, and sometimes setting little tiny goals is 583 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: right for that phase. But it's better BTN, right, the 584 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: bt BTND goals. And so I've been doing that with 585 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: my life. You know, I have that BTN goal of 586 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: a mile a day and a mile I can do. 587 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't do ten miles, but I can do one mile, 588 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: and sometimes I do a lot more. But that's good 589 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: for those days where it's really tough because I only 590 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: have to do a mile. I write, I would say 591 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: fiction a day and every work day. Oh yeah, that's 592 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: a good one. My BTN right now is some kind 593 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: of exercise and read a bit while I'm pumping. That's 594 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: it better than nothing. Nothing. So you're getting through books, 595 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: like you said, you got through like three books this month, 596 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: three books the last month or four whatever it was. Yea. 597 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: You know there's a lot of people be like way 598 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: back Becau zero time to read whatsoever. And here you are. 599 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: You know, you've got this busy job, you have three 600 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: young kids, and you are reading because it's just a 601 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: little bit here and there, and it adds up. I 602 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: also want you to mention, because this is a podcast 603 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: with tons of people with little kids, that a lot 604 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: of your book does center around how to make the 605 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: most of those years, which can be you know, they 606 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: can they can pass by in an instant because you 607 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: do kind of have the temptations sometimes to kind of 608 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: just wish them away, but you specifically go into some 609 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: things that kind of help make the most of those years. 610 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about some of that? I mean, 611 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, I just I don't want to sugarcoat a 612 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: great chapter about how it really can be very bad? 613 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: Can me tap? And you talk a lot about your 614 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: youngest Yeah, yeah, he has not been an ethy kid, 615 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, we sort of have this 616 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: image of like the old person in the grocery store 617 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: sort of patting you on the hat and being like, oh, 618 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: enjoy every moment, Like you're not going to enjoy every 619 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: Like there's not really all that much enjoyable about you know, 620 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: changing a diaper blowout and a you know, crowded bathroom, 621 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: public bathroom somewhere. There's nothing, you know, necessarily enjoyable about 622 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: being like rudely awakened from sleep at four am by 623 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: you know kid who's just up and there's no good 624 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: reason for it, they are just up. Or you know, 625 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: like siblings hitting each other, biting each other. These these 626 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: are all things that are not enjoyable. And so the 627 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: problem with like the old man patting on the head 628 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: and saying, enjoy every moment, like you can't enjoy every moment. 629 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: And the problem with that isn't you then feel like 630 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: you're a bad person for noticing that there are bad moments. 631 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: So it's it's not about that, it's about understanding that 632 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: we can enjoy the enjoyable moments. That's about the savings. 633 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,959 Speaker 1: So we were going to actively enjoy the enjoyable moments 634 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: and then trying not to let the negative moments become 635 00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: our entire narrative. And that requires some incredible discipline, and 636 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: it also requires being kind of good at suffering. And 637 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: I talk a little bit about this idea of how 638 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: we can become good at suffering. I mean that if 639 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: you're in a really tough patch, if you can tell 640 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: yourself or at least guess that it's limited. So I 641 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: know we've talked about you of like you know, these 642 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: the pumping days, that it's a limited time, Like you 643 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: are not still going to be pumping, I assume like 644 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: two years from now, promise, So you know it's it's 645 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: time limited. So we can pace ourselves through close to 646 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: anything if you know it's time limited, right, And then 647 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: also trying to find these moments that you can enjoy 648 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: and sometimes there are things that actually you can only 649 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: enjoy in these things that are not you know, necessarily 650 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: in and of themselves great. And you know, again it's 651 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: not trying to sugarcoat it, like, yes, my youngest Alex 652 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: like woke up incredibly early for a very very long 653 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: period of time. I would have preferred that he didn't 654 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: do that. And there's nothing I can say about that. 655 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, but I could appreciate some good 656 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: things that did happen, like being out for a walk 657 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: on the board walk on vacation when he's woken me 658 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: up at four point thirty in the morning and I 659 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: get to see the sunrise over the Atlantic. Well, you know, 660 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: it's nice, like to see the sunrise over the Atlantic, 661 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: and you wouldn't know otherwise. Granted, I wish he would 662 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: have let me sleep till seven am, but if I 663 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: was going to be up, I could at least appreciate 664 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: this pretty incredible sunrise over the Atlantic. You know that 665 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: I can sort of, you know, there are lots of 666 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: things like that. Just notice what you can that can 667 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: be enjoyed while still pacing yourself through the stuff that 668 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: necessarily can. And if there is something that you can change. 669 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: I mean, so some suffering cannot be changed. I mean 670 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: that is true. Some suffering absolutely cannot be changed. But 671 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: if there is something that you can change, change it, like, 672 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,239 Speaker 1: don't be a martyr to the suffering. Do what you 673 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: can to change the circumstances. And sometimes very little things 674 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: can even move minutes from the enduring to the tolerating category. 675 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: And if you can move from enduring to tolerating, like 676 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: that's huge. I feel like that was the move for 677 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: my five am to my NOMEPM pump. There you go 678 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: and very tolerating. Yeah, because there's no point to you know, 679 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: really not enjoying life at all. And so yeah, like 680 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, I talk about people who had you know, 681 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: like cancer, for instance. There's not really all that redeeming 682 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: about a cancer diagnaite people. Afterwards, we'll say things like, well, 683 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: it was good that it happened to me because I 684 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: became a different person. That was good. Yeah, but it 685 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: still sucks, like, let's not you know, nothing that could 686 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: be said about that, but you know there are ways 687 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: to get through it. That people have adopted some very 688 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: interesting mindsets about that I profile, and so I think 689 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: that's you know, worth thinking about how we can become 690 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: good at suffering in different ways and that can change 691 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: the experience of time. And it is inspiring to read 692 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: stories like that because you realize, Okay, if someone can 693 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: chunk that up and get through it, then you know 694 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: I can handle something less than that, because no, wow, well, okay. 695 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: The last point about the book I wanted to talk about, 696 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: and this is appropriate because I'm in this chapter as 697 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: I am in a couple Actually, thank you, Laura, is 698 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: the one about people, because you know, your main point 699 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: driving home towards the end of the book is that 700 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: like the best moments and the most worthwhile moments and 701 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: the ones that really make up the meaningful parts of 702 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: our lives are the ones spent with people, and instead 703 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: of going very gushy, which is not your style, and 704 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: I agree with that, it's more mine. That's okay, is 705 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 1: you went into a lot of practical things, and I 706 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: liked how you talked about networking, and particularly how it 707 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: kind of sounds a little bit transactional but really doesn't 708 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: have to be. Yeah, I really wish we could just 709 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: come up with a different word, because this word gets 710 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: such this negative connotation, like nobody likes that guy at 711 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: the you know, reception after the conference who's like constantly 712 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: looking over his shoulder to find somebody more important to 713 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: talk to, like, And unfortunately, that's what a lot of 714 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: people picture with networking, or that there's this like mean 715 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: agenda to it, you know, And if you go into 716 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: networking with an immediate agenda, like you're going about the 717 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: entire wrong way. And it's so much better to sort 718 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: of be like, I would like to meet interesting people 719 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: in life. I would like to see them succeed. Hopefully 720 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: they'll find me interesting too, and they would like to 721 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: see me succeed as well. And it's really been actually 722 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: kind of fun as I've been sending out sort of 723 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: advanced copies of Off the Clock to various influencers because 724 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: I feel like so many of these people are just 725 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: my friends. It's not that they're you know, like you know, 726 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: anything other than that. It's said I've met them over 727 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: the years. I enjoy talking to them. I've enjoyed like 728 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: writing about or talking about their projects. I've met them 729 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: off and in person, and like, I'm so excited to 730 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: show this book that I've written with them, and yeah, 731 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: a lot of them are going to write about it, 732 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: talk about it, do whatever. But it doesn't it doesn't 733 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: have the sort of tre's actual nature to it that 734 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: I think a lot of networking can come. You know, 735 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: I've talked about it. Pastime said like, oh, I'm so 736 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: bad at networking, and people have written back to me 737 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: and be like, by the way, have you noticed that 738 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: you've written like two articles a week for like ten 739 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: years where you've been quoting three people like that you've 740 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: talked to and you know, so those people then follow 741 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: you and you follow them and it's like all these 742 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, this community and it's and so I hadn't 743 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: really thought about it that way, but it's true. It's true. 744 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: It's not me at a cocktail party because I'm that's 745 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: not really me that well, but but it is still 746 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: still networking. And yeah, so get to know people. I 747 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: hope you can help them succeed where you can. And 748 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: that's pretty much all you really need to do. And 749 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: spend your time on people, friends, family, colleagues. And I'm 750 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: a more introverted person than Sarah, so that's a little 751 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 1: harder for me to do, but I mean I do 752 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: try to make sort of I had my personal priorities 753 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: for the upcoming week. I also try to make relationship 754 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,919 Speaker 1: priorities for the upcoming week and be like, maybe somebody 755 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm reaching out to that I haven't talked to in 756 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: a while and I just want to see how life 757 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,959 Speaker 1: is going, or you know, doing something with somebody who's 758 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: in my area, my local area that can always be 759 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: something or could be something with family as well. That 760 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: those can be relationship priorities too. But just knowing it's 761 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: in there sort of makes life feel more more full 762 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: because I actually found that this time diary study that 763 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: people's perceptions of time rose in direct correlation to how 764 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,280 Speaker 1: many minutes they spent actively engaged with friends and family 765 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: on their time diaries on that March Monday, which which 766 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: is kind of cool. I mean, you know, most people 767 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: don't really think of a March Monday as being like 768 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: prime friend time, or most people aren't going to really 769 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: do a big date night on a March Monday. So 770 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't that these were naturally times where there would 771 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: be a lot of interaction with people, but the people 772 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: who had the high turny perception scores had made that 773 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 1: happen one way or the other. And they even refer 774 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: to certain activities as more of a like praankfast with 775 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: my kid instead of just so that they were referring 776 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: to the other people around. They were actively aware of 777 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: the people that they were interacting with in this time. 778 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: And you're like doing chores with wife like that would 779 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: be an entry. You know, like a lot of people 780 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: do chores they don't think about like, oh my spouse 781 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: and I were going to do our chores like as 782 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: we're both doing them together. And maybe that kind of 783 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 1: like brought more value to that mundane event and led 784 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: them to feel like they were using their time. I 785 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: think that's an important thing to keep in mind, that 786 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: people are generally a good use of time and they 787 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: make life more fun. And you know, we have this 788 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: idea that that time management is somehow even like opposed 789 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: to this idea. And when people tell me like, oh, 790 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't really like this whole idea of time management, 791 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: it's usually because they're thinking of it as structuring everything 792 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: in opposition to like really relaxed and enjoyable time spent 793 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: with friends and family. Right, but you know you have 794 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: to arrange your life so you can have that time. 795 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: I don't think these two are in opposition at all. No, 796 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: definitely not. Kind of like the whole well, it's the 797 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: same paradox with you know, the oh I just want 798 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: to be Lucy Goosey. No, you got to be planned 799 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: to have that. Otherwise though, that you don't want to 800 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: do and you'll have to deal with it. But if 801 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: you've planned ahead and all that, then you may be 802 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: able to enjoy your Lucy Goosey time. Or that's those 803 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: planners talking. But I hope to convince you in the 804 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: book you get a chance to read it. Well, I 805 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: think people are really really going to enjoy this book. 806 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,959 Speaker 1: I do, so please let us know what you think. 807 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure Laura will be doing some themed blog posts 808 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: about it. I hope she will. And really, if you've 809 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: read any of her stuff before. This is honestly like 810 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: my favorite book that she's written. And I'm not just 811 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: saying that. So I encourage you all to check it out. 812 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,439 Speaker 1: I really appreciate that You're welcome, but no, I really 813 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: liked it. I was like sending her live emails. I 814 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: was like, I love the topic. That was really fun. 815 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,399 Speaker 1: I was excited, so I would check it out, all right. 816 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 1: So we do have a Q and A and the 817 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: love of the week today. Do you want this is 818 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 1: a hard Maybe I can read it if you are 819 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: the answer. We both don't have a great answer, but 820 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: I think it's good to share that we all have these. Yeah. 821 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: So she was listening to our episode with Catherine Reynolds 822 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: Lewis which we talked about kid discipline and talking about 823 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: teaching children the skills of self regulation, and we had 824 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: briefly mentioned the idea of parent regulation maybe being a 825 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: skill that people need to work on as well, and 826 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: our listener wrote, not sure if it's something you would 827 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 1: be interested in discussing, but it's a topic I work 828 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: with a lot, both personally and professionally, and I always 829 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: appreciate hearing how other parents stay grounded and act intentionally, 830 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: especially when parenting, life and work can feel challenging. I 831 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: would I would say that we are not necessarily the 832 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: experts on this, Oh, definitely not, definitely not. In fact, 833 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: I can probably tell you about just about as much 834 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: of what doesn't work is what does. So maybe that's helpful, 835 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: But Gina, I think I just think it's a great 836 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: thing to bring up. I mean you, please, don't have 837 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: any fantasies that either of us live in a smooth, quiet, 838 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: conflict free zone, because it definitely isn't. Or like say, 839 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: when over exactly, I feel like things are better when 840 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: I do the things I need to feel human. Then 841 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: I know my patience level is better and my ability 842 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: to be patient with my children is better. So I 843 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: do think that that sort of self care piece of 844 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: sleeping and getting some exercise and taking breaks and even 845 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: getting help is very helpful in allowing me to have 846 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: more self regulation on a day to day basis. In fact, 847 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: the corolaria that is, I'm always worse when I'm on call, 848 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: And Josh will tell you that like he hates when 849 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm on call. If it was up to him, I 850 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: would never be on call because that work stress kind 851 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: of overflows and everything else, and I tend to be 852 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: a lot more yelly and less patient, and I hate it. 853 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: So I guess really just making sure that you have 854 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: that time for yourself and that your life isn't so 855 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: harried and it's going to flow to your parenting style. 856 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: I do think I remember leanne A Soul in one 857 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: of our prior episodes mentioned being creative as parents, and 858 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: I do feel like that sometimes works, really finding that, 859 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: you know, if the kids are acting out in some 860 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: really annoying way, if there's any way to find humor 861 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: in that, like maybe even reminded the kid be like, 862 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: are you really tomorrow if I remind you that you 863 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,359 Speaker 1: like really wanted the yellow bowl instead the blue bowl? 864 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: Like will you think that that makes sense? For example, 865 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: you know, finding see if they can find the humor 866 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: in their behavior, or gamify what we're doing, like okay, 867 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: let's see if we can get our teeth brushed in 868 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: thirty seconds, Like think of if there's a creative way 869 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: that I can get through something rather than yelling. And 870 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: then finally, yeah, there's yelling sometimes and I regret it sometimes. 871 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: And one thing that I've done a little bit more 872 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: of is coming back to apologize later, like I can 873 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,839 Speaker 1: go to the kid and say, you know, that really 874 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,800 Speaker 1: didn't go well. I wish it had gone better. I 875 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: wish I hadn't yelled. Let's talk about how we could 876 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: make this go better. And sometimes I solicit the kid 877 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,760 Speaker 1: themselves for ideas and they may kind of admit that, yeah, 878 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,760 Speaker 1: some of it was stubborness on their part as well. 879 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: But I do think that kind of going back and 880 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 1: rehashing it, yeah, is helpful. So those are mine, I 881 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: would say with that of going back to have the conversation, 882 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: like you're trying to encourage the kid to have some 883 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: empathy in here too, Like can they understand why you 884 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: were so upset? And it's not usually because you're a 885 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: horrible person, Like that's probably not the reason you were 886 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: so upset, it's because, you know, let's see what's going 887 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: on in mommy's life, Like do you have any awareness 888 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,399 Speaker 1: of this? Well, no, your kid doesn't, because your kid 889 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,919 Speaker 1: is a self centered little, you know, three year old, 890 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: Like why would you know? They don't? But you know, 891 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 1: three ye old one? But I feel like an eleven 892 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: year old can have a bit more of that empathy, right, 893 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: and you need to encourage that in the eleven year 894 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,240 Speaker 1: old to say like, well, why do you think mommy 895 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: is stressed right now? All right, let's talk about this now, 896 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: why do you think that this particularly triggered it? And 897 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: you know they can talk about it, like, well, what 898 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: can we do in the future, Like I was upset 899 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: that you remember as we were going to the bus 900 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: that you needed X Y or Z. You know, how 901 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: can we make in the future and you don't remember 902 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: generous idea that you need X, Y and Z as 903 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,359 Speaker 1: if I have nothing else to do today other than 904 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: you know, attend to X, Y and Z. Yeah, because 905 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,839 Speaker 1: they need to like you have your own life too, 906 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: and encouraging children to understand that yes, obviously they are 907 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: very important to you, but they are probably not the 908 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: only thing going on in your life. Is a healthy 909 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:37,319 Speaker 1: living skill to have, definitely. So yeah, that's our take 910 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: on things. We are not experts. We're all learning one 911 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: step at a time. But I did like that it 912 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: was brought out. I thought it was a good, good 913 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: question to ask. Okay, so finally, our love of the week, 914 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: in addition to off the clock, which clearly is the 915 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: love of the week as well, but mine kind of 916 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,319 Speaker 1: boring but useful for summer Zappos dot Com. I don't 917 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: think we've mentioned it. I'm sure this is not an 918 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: ad by the way as usual, but it does have 919 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: free returns, which not everywhere does, and they kind of 920 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: encourage you sometimes to buy different sizes and but that's 921 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: really okay with I've been not doing right, but now 922 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 1: they actually want you. But it's actually like the structure 923 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: of their business. And I've been kind of like, I've 924 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: just bought a pair of shoes for Cameron and then 925 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 1: they were too small and he said they were too 926 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: tight and they really weren't, but whatever, and I'm just 927 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: returning them and I'm going to get new ones. And 928 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: they have pretty much all the like sort of general brands, 929 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: and it's super convenient and I don't have time to 930 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: go a shoe store and kind of never plan on 931 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: going again. So yeah, well I love that you. You 932 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: actually said a note about your your tip here, which 933 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought of buying a few sizes if 934 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: you know you're gonna want to keep having that option around, 935 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: like the wall. Oh yeah, we have this pair of 936 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: stride right sandals that war in like every size. So 937 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: at one point I was just like I'm buying them 938 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,879 Speaker 1: in fives and sixes and sevens because I know I'm 939 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 1: going to keep wanting them. And we're in a one 940 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: climate zone. So for other people who live where there's 941 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,320 Speaker 1: multiple types of weather, I could see this being more challenging. 942 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: Kid will wear the next summer. I mean, this is 943 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: a problem of like trying to buy stuff ahead for 944 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: you know, I've encountered this, like you know, buying size ten, 945 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 1: you know, of summer stuff for then and then boots. Yeah, 946 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: and then summer the next summer they're the twelve or something. 947 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: So it doesn't work. Yeah, But if you're in a 948 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 1: climate neutral, climate consistent zone like we are, it's great. Okay, 949 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: that's awesome. All right, I'm gonna remember to do that 950 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: because I also do not find that kids shoe shopping 951 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: is ever really a priority for me. So no, it's 952 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: awesome sometimes state the kid's shoes wind up in. So 953 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: my love of the week is that my three year 954 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: old is now potty trained. Yay, that's it is exciting because, 955 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: like I have, there's literally been six months and the 956 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: last eleven years that we have not been dealing with diapers, 957 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: and now we're not really dealing with him. I mean, 958 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: we put him in over night, but he pretty much 959 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: doesn't need him. He's been waking up dry. Well, he 960 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: wakes up screaming I have to pay, which I get, 961 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: that's easy. He's so we have to go quickly get 962 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: him and go get to the potty. But yeah, he's 963 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: been waking up up dry. So I'm pretty sure we 964 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: can get out of the night diapers pretty pretty soon 965 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: as well. Which is an upside of doing this at 966 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: three versus like you know, two and a half, is 967 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: it's a very quick process once the kid, you know, 968 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,319 Speaker 1: decides to do it, because they're old enough to deal 969 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 1: with it. Well, that is definitely a milestone. I think 970 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,920 Speaker 1: we had nine months of daytime diaper free and then 971 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,399 Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of nice. 972 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:52,919 Speaker 1: It's uh, you know been it's a milestone. Yeah, soon 973 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: your son will be driving. But we won't say word 974 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: to the time. I know where the time went actually 975 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: because I've in track. So there we go exact all right, Well, 976 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening to you best of 977 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: both worlds. This week. We've been talking off the clock, 978 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: which you know, if you somehow missed the first part 979 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: of this episode. My book is out for sale May 980 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,879 Speaker 1: twenty nine, when this episode airs. If you would pick 981 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,960 Speaker 1: up a copy, I'd most appreciate it. Thank you for 982 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: being loyal podcast listeners, readers, all that good stuff. I 983 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,399 Speaker 1: so appreciate it. I'm so grateful for all the people 984 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 1: who are willing to spend their precious time reading or 985 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: listening to this stuff. I mean, it means the world 986 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,879 Speaker 1: to me. So thank you, Yes, thank you. Be back 987 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: last week with more on making work and life fit together. 988 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 989 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 990 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 991 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 992 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 993 00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:59,240 Speaker 1: life work together.