1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: My from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound on 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: talking about a huge issue. Here is investment in marginalized communities. 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: They want to deconstruct this package and cherry pick what 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: they like what they don't like. China is surgeon powered 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: with major investments. Bloomberg sound On, the insiders, the influencers, 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: the insides. Biden has promised again and again that he 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: will unite the country. Who do you think Biden has 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: to watch in terms of moderate defectors infort The structure 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: has always been by part of the Bloomberg sound on 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. It's day five of the shutdown of 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: a major gasoline pipeline, less than twenty four hours away 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: from a critical White House meeting that could decide the 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: fate of the infrastructure bill, and we're all waiting to 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: see whether an inflation report issue tomorrow will be good 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: news for President Joe Biden. I'm Emily Wilkins here to 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: get into the biggest news of the day. I'm Willie Wilkins, 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: along with Bloomberg Politics contributor Jimmie Schanzano and George c 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: CEO of Annandale Capital and former senior advisor to Marco 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: Rubio presidential campaign. We're going to get started off on 20 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: the very busy show with talking about the Colonial Pipeline, 21 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: the pipeline that has been shut down since Friday as 22 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: a result of a cyber attack. The pipeline accounts for 23 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: forty percent of the East Coast fuel and today we 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: had Energy Secretary grand Home saying at the White House 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: briefing that Colonial Pipeline expects to make the full restart 26 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: decision on Wednesday. Here's the sound on that. I've had 27 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: several conversations with the CEO of Colonial and who has 28 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: indicated that by close of business tomorrow, Colonial will be 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: in a position to make the full restart decision. But 30 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: even after that decision is made, it will take a 31 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: few days to ramp up operations. Got a Secretary grant 32 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: Home there, Georgia. I want to start by coming to 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: you a little bit on this. We've already started to 34 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: see some of the impacts for the pipeline being shut down. 35 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: For just the last four or five days, the national 36 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: average for a gallon of regular gasoline has rose two cents, 37 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: much more in some of the states that are impacted 38 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: by this pipeline. In Georgia, Governor Briant Kemp signed an 39 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: executive order suspending the state's gasoline tax through Saturday. In Virginia, 40 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: Governor Ralph Northam has declared a state of emergency in 41 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: an effort to suspend some of the fuel transport rules. George, 42 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 1: if this goes on for much longer, what other sort 43 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: of impacts might we start seeing? Yeah, that's that's a 44 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: great question. Is a very important substantive, uh subject. I 45 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: would say it really is a national security subject picked 46 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: on two levels. One is energy. Energy is a national 47 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: security threat to the United States. We have to have 48 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: sufficient energy, whether it's clean power or fossil fuels or whatever, 49 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: for our economy to run and our our country to 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: be safe and reliable. And then secondly to cybersecurity national 51 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: threat we I don't think people are aware of how 52 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: vulnerable we are too cyber terrorism and cyber attacks against 53 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: our infrastructure as well as our military and our banks 54 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: and our financial system and everything else. And this sums 55 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: it up all in one fell swoop. I hope it 56 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: raised awareness of this and how vulnerable we are. And 57 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: I'll also frought with peril the the inevitable transition to 58 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: more and more forms of clean power that we're gonna 59 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: be doing over the next several decades. We're never going 60 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: to be completely off fossil fuels, at least in my lifetime, 61 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: I don't think, but how we transition is really important, 62 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: and to make sure that we don't accelerate that to 63 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: the degree that that we don't have sufficient energy and 64 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: inflation goes crazy, and it average Joe or Judy out 65 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: there on the street can't afford to pay their their 66 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: gas bills at home and their their their gas bills 67 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: for their cars. So it's a really serious issue and 68 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: one that deserves a lot of attention for policy makers 69 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: and business alike. Georgie make a really great point there 70 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: and talking about sort of how critical this infrastructure is. 71 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: And obviously President Biden, we've talked so much about his 72 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: infrastructure proposal, but it doesn't include anything on natural gas pipelines, 73 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: nor does it include anything on cyber security. Genie, is 74 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: this something where the president has a bit of an 75 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: oversight here? Does the package that Biden has proposed that 76 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: Congress is currently working to put together, do they need 77 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: to include pipelines like Colonial pipeline and items like cybersecurity? 78 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: They absolutely do, you know, It is fascinating because I 79 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: heard somebody say, you know, what happened with the Colonial 80 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: pipeline is in some senses similar to the pandemic. To 81 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: the extent that we knew it was coming, it was 82 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: not a matter of if it was, it was just when. 83 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: And this is the first of what looks like it 84 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: is going to be sort of a way of life 85 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: in the United States and around the world. With the 86 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: cyber extortion attempts that have become really what people describe 87 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: as death by a thousand cuts. They are paralyzing critical 88 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: infrastructure across the country. So the President and the White 89 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: House and the administration absolutely have to take steps to 90 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: address this. Probably if they're going to have an infrastructure bill, 91 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: this should be at the top of the list. And 92 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, that's not what we're seeing here. And 93 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: and just to go back to what you were saying 94 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: to George, you mentioned, you know Ralph Northam in Virginia, 95 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: also Roy Cooper in North Carolina. And I happened to 96 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: be just speaking in acdotally with with somebody in Virginia 97 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: a few minutes ago who was at a gas station 98 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: saying the lines were out of onto the street. So 99 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: there is absolutely panic in the states that have been 100 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: hit by this, and as you mentioned, as we heard 101 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: the Secretary say a decision will be made on Wednesday. 102 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: If this goes much longer, it's going to have an 103 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: enormous impact on the price of gas, and panic across 104 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: the country is going to get worse. Genie, I just 105 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: want to follow up with you very quickly. Why do 106 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: you think that President Biden did not include pipelines and 107 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: cybersecurity in his proposal? I mean, it's a pretty wide reaching, 108 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: comprehensive proposal. Why did this not make the cut? It's 109 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: it's so important because you know, at you know what, 110 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: four trillion dollars, It's it's hard to imagine that this 111 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: wasn't at the top of the list. I can only 112 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: say that it was not something he talked in awful 113 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: lot about during the campaign, and much of what we 114 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: see in the bill, as you know, Emily, are things 115 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: that he talked about during the campaign. So I think 116 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: this happening is so unfortunate, but it may sort of 117 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: give impetus to having a discussion about including this in 118 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: the bill, or the administration has a plan to propose 119 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: something else to address it. We know there's going to 120 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: be this executive or her. But you know, again, it's 121 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: a little bit too little, too late at this point 122 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: as infrastructure around the country is being hit. Jennie, Also, 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: you made the comparison of this cyber attack to coronavirus 124 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: in the sense that there was a sense that something 125 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: like this could happen. It was only question of when 126 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: there's another parallel I'm going to draw here. Uh, we've 127 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: seen reports and even photos of individuals of rushing to 128 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: gas staches, trying to fill up tanks of gas, both 129 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: in their own car. I saw one photo going around 130 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: Twitter of a couple with several of those red gas 131 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: canisters and just pouring gasoline into them. And Secretary Granholm 132 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: addressed that. She said, even after decision is made on 133 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: whether or not to restart, it's going to take a 134 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: few days to get up and running. But she warned 135 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: that there's no reason for people to hoard gasoline. Let's 136 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: listen to the sound on that. Let me emphasize that 137 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: much as there um was no cause for say, hoarding 138 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: toilet paper were at the beginning of the pandemic, there 139 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: should be no cause for hoarding gasoline, especially in light 140 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: of the fact that the pipeline should be substantially operational 141 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: by the end of this week and over the weekend. 142 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: Georgia is she? Is she right about that? Are these 143 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: people who are rushing to the gas station do do 144 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: they kind of have a point? I mean this it 145 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: was such a I think a surprise to a number 146 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: of Americans that a pipeline could be shut down by 147 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: a cybersecurity attack. Is there some logic here to sort 148 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: of taking these precautions? I think there is logic. I 149 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of uncertainty. And I remember a 150 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: couple of years ago when her came Harvey hit Houston, 151 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: and everybody said the same thing, don't panic, don't rush 152 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: out and by gas. And I was with my wife 153 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: in the Technic Hill Country, which is over two hundred 154 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: miles away, and I laughed at it. We didn't rush 155 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: out and by gas. And we live in Dallas, which 156 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 1: is two eighty miles away, and I went out when 157 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: we were getting near empty, and we're gonna have to 158 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: go home, and we have to go to about ten 159 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: gas stations to find gaps to get home, over two 160 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: hundred miles away from Houston. So I do think you 161 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: should be precautious and should have a full tank of 162 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: gas gas, especially if you're in affected areas. And I 163 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: just want to harken back to the fact that I said, 164 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: by the administration doesn't have to like Exxon or Chevron 165 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: or World Dutch or so of these big old companies. 166 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: In fact, they might load them, but they're gonna have 167 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: to be good public servants in terms of overseeing the 168 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: transition that is coming from fossil fuels to clean power 169 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: and not rush it arbitrarily and and be shooting at 170 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: Exxon and Chevron and hit the little guy, the little 171 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: guy who's got to buy a tank and I think 172 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: of gas and needs gas for lighting and heating in 173 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: their homes and things of that sort. This has got 174 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: to be managed well, and you've got to do what's 175 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: best for the American people. And yes, we are going 176 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: to transition, although we'll always need fossil fuels, but it's 177 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: got to be well controlled and calibrated to make sure 178 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: we do what's best for the American people and not 179 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: virtue signal and hurt the little guy in the little 180 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: gal That's just that's just bad public policy. And George, 181 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: I just wanted to follow up on that quickly and 182 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: ask you because I happened to be talking to college 183 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: age students, my students today, and you know, they don't 184 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: remember like I do the nineteen seventies when we lived 185 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: through this, and how absolutely horrifying it is when you're 186 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: in an energy crisis like that. So do you think 187 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: there is a generational aspect to this, that something like 188 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: this could have a sort of impact on how people 189 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: view this switch we're going through in terms of energy 190 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: as it pertains to the environment. And I know we 191 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: only have like thirty seconds left, so I'm sorry. I 192 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: would just say that those who don't remember history, or 193 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: Dameder repeated, those of us who lived through the seventies 194 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: and the stagflation and the lack of economic growth and 195 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: president parts and misery index, we don't want to go 196 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: back there. We we don't want to get consumed with 197 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: virtue signaling and kill the economy off and bring back 198 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: rampant inflation. Is bad for everybody. So we just got 199 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: to be cautious and remember our history. To your point, absolutely, 200 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: I think George, that's an excellent point, and Genie just 201 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: a really interesting observation as well. I mean, I was 202 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: not alive in the nineteen seventies um and there is 203 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: you know, definitely a bit of a generational cap when 204 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: you sort of look at how different individuals go ahead 205 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: and approach this. I think two will be interesting to 206 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: see what comes out of this White House task force 207 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: on the Colonial Pipeline and whether anything gets into that 208 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: final infrastructure bill. We've got a big day coming up 209 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 1: in Washington tomorrow. President Biden has talked a big game 210 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: on bipartisanship, and this week we're going to get a 211 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: signal on whether or not he'll be able to deliver 212 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: that on his four point board trillion dollar proposal, particularly 213 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: on the part that includes infrastructure. That's the two point 214 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: two point two point to five trillion dollar package, roads, bridges, highways, 215 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: all of the stuff that President Biden thinks that he 216 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,359 Speaker 1: might be able to get a deal with on Republicans. 217 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: Two key meetings coming up. Tomorrow. He'll be meeting with 218 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: the Democratic and Republican heads of the House and the Senate, 219 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: the Big Four as they're sometimes known, to see if 220 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: he can get them on board with a potential path forward. 221 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: And then on Thursday, White House President Biden is going 222 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: to meet with six Republicans senators with the goal of 223 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: looking for ways to compromise on the administration's desired infrastructure plan. 224 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: Senator John Barrasso is one of the six senator from Wyoming, 225 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: and he said today that he's hopeful a middle ground 226 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: could be reached by both parties. Here's the sound on 227 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: that we are coming with a good faith offer and 228 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: we're hoping to find common ground on things that the 229 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: American people would think of as infrastructure road bridges, ports, airports, waterways, 230 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: and of course in the twenty one century high speed 231 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: broadband genie. For these two meetings, the one on Wednesday 232 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: and the one on Thursday, what are you going to 233 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: be looking for in what lawmakers say coming out of 234 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: the meetings? I feel like normally, you know, lawmakers leave 235 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: the meeting with the President, they say things went well, 236 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: it was really constructive, YadA, YadA, YadA. How are we 237 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: going to really get a sense of what was said 238 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: inside of those rooms? You know, I don't know if 239 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: we're going to be able to get a good sense. 240 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: I would love to be a fly on the wall. 241 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: You've got, you know, Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden together 242 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: for the first time, You've also got Mitch McConnell and 243 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumerer after they're back and forth about the voting bill. 244 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: It's gonna be quite a meeting tomorrow, I imagine. But 245 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: I think what I'm looking for, specifically, if we get 246 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: intel us to what they actually talked about, is gonna 247 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: be can Joe Biden hold his Democratic caucus together while 248 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: he reaches across the aisle. You know, I think there 249 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: are signs that Republicans are willing to go up on 250 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 1: on Shelley moore Capital's initial proposal. I think she's signaled that. 251 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: I think Barasso and the other six that are meeting 252 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: with him on Thursday have signaled that. But what I'm 253 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: not as clear about is that he can hold the 254 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: fifty in the Senate Democrats together, and particularly the House 255 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: if he deals too much with Republicans. And you know, 256 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: we heard a little bit about this from Bernie Sanders 257 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: amongst others in the last few days. So to me, 258 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: that's the biggest signal I'm looking for. George cy you 259 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: were very close with obviously Senator Marco Rubio. You understand 260 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: the Republican side and the Republican perspective of here is 261 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: what is the incentive for Republicans to come to the 262 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: table on this one. I mean, if they compromise with 263 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: President Biden, isn't that just giving Democrats a win? You know, 264 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: I think what's with the motivation for for real public 265 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: servants and not political animals, would be good public policy 266 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: for the American people. And I think I'm frankly more 267 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: interested in the Democratic side on this one because I 268 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: think there's a real friction between President Biden and his 269 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: sire for a legacy and his desire for real accomplishments 270 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: and the mid term elections. I think that there's a 271 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: lot of anks on the Democratic side about at least 272 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: losing the House, which seems likely, and potentially losing the 273 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Senate again. And I think that if you have a 274 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: compromise package that goes through, it's good for everybody. It's 275 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: good for the president, it's good for the country, and 276 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: it's good for the Congress. But it also I think, 277 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: probably increases Republican chances of taking back at least one 278 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: chamber of the Congress. And I think I think congressional 279 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: partisans on the Democratic side are going to be very 280 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: opposed to something like that. And you know, the Biden 281 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: package includes a lot of things that aren't infrastructure, and 282 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: the Republican side is almost completely infrastructure. And I think 283 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: the Minority leader McConnell indicated he's already willing to go 284 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: higher than than Shelley Moore Capital's proposal, where he said 285 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: six eight billion, which is still a huge infrastructure package, 286 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: which is higher than what she indicated, is what he 287 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: would favor. And I hope they get something done. I 288 00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: think it'd be good for the country. I think it 289 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: gives for the president. I think the presidents guys think, 290 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: am I going to do the right thing and worry 291 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: about my legacy. Let's shifts fall where they may. We 292 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: may lose a House of Congress anyway, even if we 293 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: stonewall or whether we we uh make some kind of compromise. 294 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: I hope he tried to get something done, and it 295 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: would be a lot less than what he initially proposed 296 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: that they did. And George, I couldn't agree more that. 297 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: I think you really are seeing some tension there, as 298 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: you described, between President Biden's sort of interest in building 299 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: his legacy on this front and then also the Democrats 300 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: interest in holding the Senate. And I'm really, really curious, 301 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: Emily to see what happens, what the progressives in the 302 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: House particularly have to say as these meetings go forward. 303 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: You know, I have been saying, and I know you've 304 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: been saying, I think this week we will probably get 305 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: an inkling if to your point, we get the real 306 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: story about what's going on in there as to whether 307 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: we're going to see some bipartisanship that Democrats and progressives 308 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: can hold on to. Absolutely, and you know, Jeanie, to 309 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: your point, we have already seen progressives come out and 310 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: have some scerns about President Biden's Plan Number one. They 311 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: say that it doesn't go far enough and spending that 312 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: they should try and get even more. They've also raised 313 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: concerns that his plan does not address healthcare, it doesn't 314 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: expand Medicare, it doesn't talk about finding ways to lower 315 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: prescription drug prices. So those are things that progressives have 316 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: issues with. And of course you've already heard Senator Joe 317 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: Mansion has a problem raising the corporate tax rate to 318 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: twenty percent. House Democrats have a problem with not addressing 319 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: the state local deductions. So lots and lots of questions. 320 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm Emily Wilkins, along with Bloomberg Politics contributor Jimmy Schanzano, 321 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: and we are also joined by George c the CEO 322 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: of Annandel Capital and a former senior advisor to Marco 323 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: Rubio's presidential campaign. We want to get into a report 324 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: that is coming tomorrow that the White House and Congress 325 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: are going to be watching very closely for on US 326 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: consumer prices. The question is what did inflation do in 327 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: the last month. Expectations are that prices are going to 328 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: have risen again and for a fifth month, as the 329 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: US recovers from the coronavirus pandemic. But Republicans have also 330 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: repeatedly invoked the risk of high inflation as one of 331 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: the reasons they didn't support that one point nine trillion 332 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: dollar coronavirus stimulus that passed earlier this year. They've also 333 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: said that they are concerned that if President Biden's four 334 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: point for trillion dollar proposal passes, that we're going to 335 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: see inflation skyrocket up even further, hurting Americans right at 336 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: the time where they are trying to get out of 337 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: the economic havoc from the coronavirus pandemic. George, you are 338 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: the CEO of investing firm and del capital. What are 339 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: you going to be looking for in this report tomorrow 340 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: and what do you expect to see at this point? Yeah, Emily, 341 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: that's that's a real coaching question right now for for 342 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: uh Main Street, Wall Street vote. And unfortunately, the official 343 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: inflation statistics don't include every measure because they kind out 344 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: some measures that are used more cyclical or temporary and 345 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: usually understates the inflation number. And with all the all 346 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: the stimulus spending during the pandemic and now post pandemic, 347 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: and all the tax cut and in this roar of 348 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: renewed economic activity, as people get out of the bunker 349 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: and get back to work and get back to their lives, 350 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna have inflationary pressures and it could be very 351 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: very bad for the economy. The thing to gauge is 352 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: what does the country look like a year from now? 353 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: It does the inflation become more subdued again? It is 354 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: these temporary stimulus and an economic boom post pandemic, paper 355 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: off of it or does it continue? And the Fed 356 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: is very very sanguine about it. They think it's going 357 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: to fade back and it's not a problem. I think 358 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: they may be overly optimistic and and sometimes the FED 359 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: gets behind the curve on fighting inflation, and they rush 360 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: to make up for that later on and raised interest 361 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: rates pretty dramatically. And that's really bad for the stock market, 362 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: and it eventually becomes bad for economic growth. So it's 363 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: gonna be a very complicated situation one that investors and 364 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: consumers and citizens should all keep a close watch on 365 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: the next three or six months. Well, George, want to 366 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: follow up a little bit with that, because you did 367 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: you mention where the FETE is at right now. They've 368 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: certainly been responding to this. We've heard from Treasury Secretary 369 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: Yellen as well as FET Reserve Chair j Powell that 370 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, both of them have sort of downplayed concerns 371 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: about potential inflation. But I'm wondering, sort of what when 372 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: you look at what the FET is doing, at what 373 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: you're hearing from Treasury Secretary Yelling, you mentioned that sometimes 374 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: they get behind the curve. Do you think that this 375 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: is one of those cases? Not yet. I think it's 376 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: too early to rates rates and start tidening up on 377 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: on interest rates and the financial markets. And but Sector 378 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: Yelling and Sharon pal are both they're they're both very 379 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: low interest rate economic growth, stimulate the economy type professionals, 380 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: and I think they're very vulnerable to be a little 381 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: late and reacted to inflation. I think the key thing 382 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: for them to do is if they see signs nine 383 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: to twelve months from now that they're long and then 384 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: inflation is not uh tapering off at the economy gets 385 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: the initial sugar high from all the stingus over with, 386 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: and if economic growth flows and inflation papers off, they 387 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: can stand pat But if inflation remains very robust and 388 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: a real enemy of economic growth and and a threat 389 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: for a recession, they're going to have to take measures 390 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: to cut off the inflation of it so we don't 391 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: get overheated. It's a very real risk right now. And George, 392 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: you you made such an important point when you talked 393 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: about both Main Street and Wall Street and how they're 394 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: sort of seeing all these signs, you know, from the 395 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: labor shortage to the supply chain challenges. Um we are seeing. 396 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: I think one of the one of the numbers I 397 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: saw that was really striking was that we're seeing more 398 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: Americans expect inflation fear inflation in than we've seen in 399 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: a decade. So I wonder do you think that the FED, 400 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: as they continue to say that they won't have to 401 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: raise rates, this will be temporary. Do you think that 402 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: they have to do a better job in terms of 403 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: putting their message out there, which seems I guess in 404 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: the data i'm seeing to being lost on people on 405 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah, I think. I Want to be clear, 406 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: I think the FED was was heroic during the pandemic. 407 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: The steps they took to keep our country from really 408 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: having a much worse economic crisis as well as the 409 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: health crisis, We're really historical in terms of how good 410 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: they were. But I do think that this is not 411 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: the worst inflation scaring a decade. Emily, I'd go back 412 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: to the vulcar in Reagan era of the early eighties. 413 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: Is the last time inflation was this biggest threat, and 414 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: I think they've got to be really vigialt about it. 415 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm frankly, I'm not worried about Wall Street. Wall Street 416 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: survives everything, and if inflation does become a threat, they'll 417 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: move to investments to do well during inflation. I'm worried 418 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: about Main Street because inflation hits hits a little guy 419 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: in the small business. It's a lot worse than if 420 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: it's Wall Street. It can be a threat to the 421 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: well being of the average American, and I think that's 422 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: what the FED needs to be really concerned about as 423 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: they monitor this. Yeah, and certainly not only the FED, 424 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: but also members of Congress who are going to have 425 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: to face those voters and those main street business owners 426 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: in just a couple of years. Uh. You know, Jennie, 427 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,239 Speaker 1: if inflation does rise tomorrow as is expected, Uh, just 428 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: real quickly here, Yes, No, is this going to be 429 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: make it much harder for President Biden to get his 430 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: proposal through Congress. I think that people are pretty much 431 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: set in their ways in terms of how they're going 432 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: to vote depending on the size of this thing. I 433 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: know you said yes, no, I I say no, But 434 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: I think it may change people's views outside of Congress 435 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: on the bill. Excellent. Well, definitely going to be watching 436 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: that report very very closely tomorrow as well as how 437 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: lawmakers respond to it. You know, I know that obviously 438 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: as Secretary Yellen, uh j Powell, they've both been really 439 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: trying to reassure lawmakers and sort of the American public 440 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: in general that inflation isn't going to be a problem. 441 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: But George's I think you pointed out at this point 442 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: we don't necessarily know, and it could be in a 443 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: position where nine months down the road, this does sort 444 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: of wind up hampering what was supposed to be a 445 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: recovery is led then back into a potential recession. Well, 446 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 1: coming up, we are going to be speaking with former 447 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: Energy Energy Secretary Dan brial Lett. We're going to be 448 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: asking him a little bit of more about his thoughts 449 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: about the Colonial pipeline shutdown and what's going to be happening. 450 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: And George C thank you so much for joining us today, 451 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: all wonderful insights. I'm Emily Wilkins. This is Bloomberg. I'm 452 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: Emily Wilkins here with Bloomberg's politics contributor Jeanie Schanzano. We 453 00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: are welcoming to the program former Energy Secretary Dan brew Yet, 454 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: who held top spots in the department during the Trump administration. Secretary, 455 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. I wanted 456 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: to start talking a little bit about the Colonial Pipeline, 457 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: which has been shut down since Friday due to attacks 458 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: from a cyber threat. And I'm curious, as someone who 459 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: used to oversee the Department of Energy, how much is 460 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: it a shock to you that a pipeline is critical 461 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: as the Colonial Pipeline of the East Coast fuel, how 462 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: much is it a shock that that pipeline could be 463 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: the victim of a cyber security attack. Mm hmm, Well, 464 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: great to be with you guys. Thanks for helping me on. 465 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's I'd like to say it's not a shock. Um, 466 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: although whenever something happened like this, your your senses are 467 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: shocked a bit. But we've known about these cyber threats, 468 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: and we've known about the situation that we have with 469 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: pipelines and other parts of the critical energy infrastructure for 470 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: quite some time. So in that sense, perhaps it's not 471 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: a complete shock. I think the industry has done a 472 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: great job of repairing itself over the years as technology 473 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: has changed. As these things have become more automated, the 474 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: pipeline infrastructure has become more automated, has become more dependent 475 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: upon the internet and electricity to turn the valves on 476 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: and off. We sort of knew that cyber was always 477 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: going to be an issue. Uh. That being said, there's 478 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: always more we can do, and it's important for us 479 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: to remember as Americans that you know, this industry is 480 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: not unlike uh, the individuals. It's not unlike your eyes 481 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: consumers were always playing defense with these hackers. The hackers 482 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: are the adversary. They're always on offense. So it makes 483 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: it a very very difficult situation for the industry day 484 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: and in day out. Secretary, on that point, you, I know, 485 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: you said that the Energy Secretar has done a great 486 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: job preparing itself. And what do they do to prepare 487 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: for these kinds of attacks or better yet, to defend 488 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: themselves against them. What have they done and what would 489 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: you recommend they do going forward? Well, you know what 490 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: they is. One they use the latest and best technologies 491 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: available so that they could sense who is on their system, 492 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: where they are in the system, what doesn't belong in 493 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: the system. They're very good at identifying these things. Now 494 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: they're not perfect, just as you and I are not perfect, 495 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: but they're much better than they used to be at 496 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 1: at finding these types of things. The other thing the 497 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: industry has done quite well over the course of the 498 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: last three to four years, it's start to share information 499 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: with each other. Now they understand that they have to 500 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: talk from time to time about things that they're seeing 501 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: on their networks, and you know, share that information so 502 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: that others can identify things that may not be um, 503 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: you know, it may not be right with their own network. 504 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: The things that we can do better, UM is that 505 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: we can work you know, from the government side. And 506 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: I say we as I'm speaking as if I'm still 507 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: at the Department. But it's one of the things that 508 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: the department can do better. Is one of the things 509 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: that the intelligence community can do better is to start 510 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: sharing some of the intelligence that we have as a 511 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: government with the private sector. The industry often complains that 512 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: the communication is a one way street. They see things 513 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: they reported to the Department of Energy, or they reported 514 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: to the proper authorities. The proper the authorities never really 515 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: take the time to share with the industry what else 516 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: they're seeing on the networks or what else they're seeing 517 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: in terms of threats. We can do a better job 518 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: of that. That seems like a really concrete step to 519 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: take to go ahead and sharing that information not only 520 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: between companies but also between the government and sort of 521 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: what they're seeing with those companies. I'm wondering those Secretary, 522 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: is there something that could stop hacks like this on 523 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: the Colonial pipeline and other major pipeline or is this 524 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: sort of always going to be a threat going forward, 525 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: that our nation's infrastructure systems could wind up being the 526 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: victims of a cyber attack. Well, I think, I think unfortunately, 527 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: the world in which we live is going to um 528 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: is going to sue us if this is going to 529 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: be an ongoing threat. You think about your personal life again, 530 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: You probably do some online banking. We use your telephone 531 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: quite a bit, use your iPhone quite a bit. Um 532 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: that's our life today, and unfortunately that creates vulnerabilities that 533 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: are going to be with us for quite some time. 534 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: The other things that we can do, however, are looking 535 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: at supply chain and supply chain management. We know that 536 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: China is an adversary. We know that Russia is an adversary. 537 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: We know that I ran as an adversary in North Korea. 538 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: So to the extent that we continue to move manufacturing 539 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: of critical components for our electricity grid or for our 540 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: energy infrastructure to places like China, we have to ask 541 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: ourselves does that make sense? Because when these things are 542 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: manufactured overseas, they can come back to us with components 543 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: or with you know, communication components that that are going 544 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: to allow an adversary to manipulate perhaps in some ways 545 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: our grid and secretary on that point, because I think 546 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: it's such an important point about this supply chain. As 547 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: we're looking at the Republicans and Democrats debating about this 548 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: infrastructure bill and trying to address some of these challenges. 549 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: What do you see, um from your perch, is missing 550 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: in this infrastructure bill. I mean, Emily and I were 551 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: just talking earlier about the factor doesn't seem to be 552 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: a big investment in sort of um this this area 553 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: of protecting these critical utilities. Are there other things you 554 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: see that are missing in that bill or by extension, 555 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: things you like about the bill that you'd like to 556 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: see past. H Well, Look, I think the focus on 557 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: infrastructure is a good focus, and I think we we 558 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: should all agree that what's needed in the in America's 559 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: more infrastructure and more redundancy, especially in our critical energy infrastructure. 560 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: So we need more pipelines, not less. We need more 561 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: transmission towers built, not less. So to the extent that 562 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: we can agree on those things, I think that's helpful. 563 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: What's missing in the bill, however, and what's missing in 564 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: the conversation is obviously any mention of cybersecurity. And I'm 565 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: not suggesting that it should be in perhaps it shouldn't be, 566 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: but it's not there today, So I suspect that there 567 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: will be some conversations about that going forward. The other 568 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: thing I think is missing in this bill, and one 569 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: of the things that we should we should recognize, is 570 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: that we should be looking at the policies that perhaps 571 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: prevent the development of infrastructure in America. And what do 572 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean by that? Just really quickly, there's a couple 573 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: of things that we could do, I think to make 574 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: the permitting process more efficient. If you're familiar with NIPA 575 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: than the actual Energy Policy Act, it requires that each 576 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: agency doing an environmental study before a permit is granted. Well, 577 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: if you if you have a pipeline and you need 578 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: FIRK approval, you need e p A approval, you might 579 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: need Department of Interior improval, and you know one or 580 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: two other agencies may get involved in that act as well. 581 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: Do you need each one of those agencies to do 582 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: a separate, distinct environmental study or can we just collectively 583 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: come together and do one. It's it's steps like that 584 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: that I think a very common sense that we could 585 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: move this process along and allow this infrastructure to be built. 586 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: It's not just a function of spending more money. Secretary, 587 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: I want to stay on this infrastructure bill for a 588 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: minute here. Present Biden this week is going to be 589 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: headed to Ford Motor Company. Uh. Secretary. Obviously you know 590 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: that that company well as the former vice president of it. 591 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: And when they're Biden is going to continue to pitch 592 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: for the infrastructure plan. You talked a little bit about 593 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: what wasn't in it. I want to focus on something 594 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: that is lots of proposals in there, trying to promote 595 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: renewable energy, electric cars, initiatives such as that meant to 596 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: really boost the environment, and wondering if you think that 597 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: that is the right focus at this point. Is President 598 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: Biden sort of looking to the future with this or 599 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: is perhaps he going a little bit too fast and 600 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: leaving some other industries behind. M hmm, Well, I look, 601 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: I think I think the market is driving towards the 602 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: electrification of cars and automobiles, and I think that's you know, 603 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: that's where the market is, and that's a good thing 604 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: if that's what people want to buy. But you can't 605 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: put the card before the horse. If you're going to 606 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: go full on electric vehicles and you're gonna electrify everything 607 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: in America. Then you need a you need an appropriate 608 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: generation portfolio, and you need an incredibly robust transmission and 609 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: distribution GROD in order to get that electricity where it 610 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: needs to be. And I think part of the premise 611 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: behind the Infrastructure Bill is that we don't have that yet. 612 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: And if that's true, then moving too quickly with some 613 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: of these other ideas may put additional stress on that problem, 614 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: but it doesn't. Does the government then need to start somewhere? 615 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean you say that the infrastructure isn't there yet, 616 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: I mean what is needed to be done at this 617 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: point to get to the point where something like Widen's 618 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: proposal could be useful? Well, I think I think it's 619 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: what we talked about it just a minute ago. It's 620 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: it's looking at the permitting process. That's really the hurdle 621 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: to building new infrastructure today. It's not a function of money, 622 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: the private the private markets. If you talk to a 623 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: private equity firm, they're a washing capital. You know. Money 624 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: is not really the issue. People are willing to build 625 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: things in America today. The challenges that you can't get approval, 626 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: you cannot get the State of New York for instance, 627 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: to approve a pipeline that would take natural gas from 628 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and bring it to Boston. They will not approve it. 629 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: They will not permit it. That's the burden, that's the challenge. 630 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: It's not a lack of government funding, it's not a 631 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: lack of government incentive. It's just the unwillingness to permit 632 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: these projects. Former Education Energy Secretary Dan brew Yet, thank 633 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time, waning on the pipeline, 634 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,760 Speaker 1: waning on the infrastructure plan. That is all for today's show, 635 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: I'm Emily Wilkins. Was joined today by Bloomberg's politics contributor 636 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: Jeanie's Shanzano. This is Bloomberg