WEBVTT - Why South Africa's Townships Suffer Worse From Climate Change

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>The world's climate is changing and the impacts are being

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<v Speaker 2>felt worldwide.

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<v Speaker 3>Record setting temperatures topping one hundred and four degrees, fueling

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<v Speaker 3>raging fires across London. A record amount of rain fell

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<v Speaker 3>on Manila on Saturday.

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<v Speaker 4>The partly submerged city of jung Jao It's subway system

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<v Speaker 4>now an underground river. This is a fire that erupted

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<v Speaker 4>during the morning rush hour along the busiest interstate there in.

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<v Speaker 3>The New York City subway system shut down overnight.

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<v Speaker 2>But while severe weather events in wealthier nations around the

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<v Speaker 2>world gets the majority of headlines, there are parts of

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<v Speaker 2>the African continent where the effects can be worse than

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<v Speaker 2>even their neighbors without getting global attention.

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<v Speaker 1>Around informal settlements, there is no electricity there, sanitation, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not that good that times leaves no water.

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<v Speaker 4>About ten percent of the population, which is oftentimes white,

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<v Speaker 4>owning the range of eighty percent of the country's wealth.

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<v Speaker 2>On this episode of the Next Africa podcast, we'll look

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<v Speaker 2>at the environmental inequality in South Africa and what's being

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<v Speaker 2>done to help communities facing up to the reality of

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<v Speaker 2>climate change. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga and this is the Next

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<v Speaker 2>Africa podcast, bringing you one story each week from the continent,

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<v Speaker 2>driving the future of global growth with the context only

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg can provide. And Tondo Taquana is a Bloomberg reporter

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<v Speaker 2>based in Johannesburg and she's been reporting on this story

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<v Speaker 2>for quite some time. She's joining us now this week

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<v Speaker 2>for the podcast and Tondo, thanks so much for being

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<v Speaker 2>with us.

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<v Speaker 3>So let's just start here.

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<v Speaker 2>What has been the impact of climate change on South Africa?

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<v Speaker 3>What kind of weather events are we seeing and have

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<v Speaker 3>been increased here over the past few years.

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<v Speaker 1>We've seen a lot of floods, the floods of April

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one, if I'm not mistaken, in a case

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<v Speaker 1>at n that basically just damaged infrastructure, left a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people homeless. We also saw another big one in

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<v Speaker 1>Cape Town earlier this year, same situation there.

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<v Speaker 3>But we're also.

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<v Speaker 1>Seeing very extreme heat events causing a lot of heat

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<v Speaker 1>stress on human bodies.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's just some of.

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<v Speaker 1>The unusual way the patterns that we are seeing that

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<v Speaker 1>are having a real impact on health, on just livability

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<v Speaker 1>in some areas. And what we have heard also is

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<v Speaker 1>that there's really an impact on economic activity as well.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people when they suffer from these consequences

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<v Speaker 1>of climate change, they are unable to work to their

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<v Speaker 1>optimum levels because there's bodily stress involved. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>look at sexes such as the agricultural sectors. This year

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<v Speaker 1>we did have a very hot February with high temperature

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<v Speaker 1>records broken in some parts of the country and that

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<v Speaker 1>was causing some damage to crops. So those are some

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<v Speaker 1>of the economic losses that we see in Kanda.

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<v Speaker 2>There's been a report from the World Bank about how

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<v Speaker 2>the heat isn't experienced equally in South Africa.

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<v Speaker 3>Dig into that a bit more for us if you can.

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<v Speaker 4>So the World Bank reports it included.

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<v Speaker 1>A heat mapping campaign and that saw fifty eight local

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<v Speaker 1>community members travel different routes from where they live to

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<v Speaker 1>different parts of the city. They it fits heat sensors

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<v Speaker 1>onto vehicles and they'd be tracking eight temperatures along the way.

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<v Speaker 1>And what that report has found is that in urban

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<v Speaker 1>censers like your Johannesburg twenty, not necessarily informal settlements or townships,

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<v Speaker 1>the temperature difference between those areas and neighboring countryside neighborhoods is.

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<v Speaker 4>Between three to four degrees.

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<v Speaker 1>Celsius, but when you come to townships, the differential is

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<v Speaker 1>basically doubled, so they experience temperatures as high as sixty

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<v Speaker 1>six degrees celsius. And they've also found that inside a

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<v Speaker 1>tinshak the temperature is also eight degrees higher than in

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<v Speaker 1>homes that are situated in wealthier neighborhoods. And in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of how many hot nights these neighborhoods could be facing,

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<v Speaker 1>the disparacies quite large as well. In urban centers, where

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<v Speaker 1>you've got urban homes that are properly insulated, the building

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<v Speaker 1>quality is great. There are trees all around, so they

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<v Speaker 1>bar me these like greeze constantly. Those neighborhoods would experience

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<v Speaker 1>forty uncomfortably hot nights by twenty fifty, and in comparison,

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<v Speaker 1>homes in poorer neighborhoods would experience as much as one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty hot nights.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think we should point out the fact that homes,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean you mentioned the ten homes. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of differences depending on what types of homes people are

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<v Speaker 2>living with in South Africa, which is not necessarily common.

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<v Speaker 2>In a lot of the developed world, so these extreme

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<v Speaker 2>weather events can have an extreme impact on what is

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<v Speaker 2>happening and how they're feeling inside the home.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, Yeah, definitely.

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<v Speaker 1>If you go into an informal settlement, you'll find that

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<v Speaker 1>most of the homes are built out of corrugated iron

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<v Speaker 1>sheets and these are mostly makeshift homes, so there isn't

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<v Speaker 1>like proper engineering or proper construction that is applied. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's one of the issues that some of the city

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<v Speaker 1>planners were raising in terms of how to regulate indoor temperatures.

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<v Speaker 1>Because when you decide to build a structure, you take

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<v Speaker 1>you're building plants through the municipality. The indoor temperature regulations

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<v Speaker 1>are sort of built into the planning process, whereas in

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<v Speaker 1>informal settlements, which are typically illegally set up, there isn't

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<v Speaker 1>any sort of regulation and they are tightly packed together.

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<v Speaker 1>It's crowded, it's just alleyways, the streets are very narrow,

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<v Speaker 1>and the spacing issue means that they can't actually plant

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of tree, which is a big issue because

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<v Speaker 1>it's very expensive sometimes to actually try and build in

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<v Speaker 1>your own mitigation risks in your home or your neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 4>If you plant trees.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's an inexpensive way of how to deal

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<v Speaker 1>with these issues. But in informal settlements, those are poor

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<v Speaker 1>communities that can't afford air conditioners and other cooling equipment.

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<v Speaker 2>And for this reporting in Tondo, you went inside a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these townships. I mean you went to go

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<v Speaker 2>visit them and talk to people. What did they tell

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<v Speaker 2>you about this? I'm sure for many of them this

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<v Speaker 2>is just what they've always experienced. But I wonder how

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<v Speaker 2>they've seen changes happen, how, yeah, these extreme events are

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<v Speaker 2>affecting them on a day to day basis.

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<v Speaker 1>We actually visited a lady called Nolatando Geja. She lives

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<v Speaker 1>in an informal settlement just in Twine, which is north

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<v Speaker 1>of Johannesburg.

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<v Speaker 4>Her home is a two roomed wall.

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<v Speaker 1>Structure, but the roof is corrugated, is a corrugated iron sheets.

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<v Speaker 4>It's very tiny. It's very tiny.

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<v Speaker 1>If I had to estimate, probably like the room we

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<v Speaker 1>were in, which is her kitchen, was probably like ten

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<v Speaker 1>feet at most. And what she said to me was

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<v Speaker 1>that it's just frustrating to be in such a small space.

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<v Speaker 1>She doesn't have many options for cooling, and at night

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<v Speaker 1>it gets exacerbated. I remember she said it actually does

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<v Speaker 1>have an emotional toll on her. She lives with three

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<v Speaker 1>kids in that small structure, and she was saying, I

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<v Speaker 1>just find myself.

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<v Speaker 4>Screaming at these kids because it's just so hot. I'm frustrated.

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<v Speaker 4>It's like stressing me.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think what also compounds this issue in those

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<v Speaker 1>particular areas is the lack of basic services. Unsustainable electricity supply,

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<v Speaker 1>unsustainable water supply. I mean, in situations like that, you

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<v Speaker 1>need water to alleviate some of the stresses that come

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<v Speaker 1>with the heat that is just engulfing you.

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<v Speaker 4>Basically, the problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Is also that there's like a rapid urbanization that's happening,

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<v Speaker 1>so more and more people are coming into these informal

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<v Speaker 1>settlements and they actually end up cutting them down, cutting the.

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<v Speaker 4>Trees down to make space for more checks.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically, stick with us in Tondo.

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<v Speaker 2>When we come back, we'll talk about what if anything,

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<v Speaker 2>is being done to help people like know Lutando you

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<v Speaker 2>were just describing there, So we'll be right back. Welcome

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<v Speaker 2>back today on the podcast, we're talking about the impact

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<v Speaker 2>of climate change on disadvantaged communities in South Africa. Our

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<v Speaker 2>reporter in Tondo Taquanta is still with us and Tondo.

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<v Speaker 4>What is the South.

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<v Speaker 3>African government saying about this?

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<v Speaker 2>Do they accept there's a problem and we should caveat

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<v Speaker 2>this by saying there's historical ties to these settlements in

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<v Speaker 2>these townships.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the government does recognize that this is a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, part of the reasoning on the retional behind

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<v Speaker 1>this study was to come up with strategies that could

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<v Speaker 1>be given to municipalities to adopt in their own plans

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<v Speaker 1>for how they could proof cities and townships and informal settlements.

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<v Speaker 4>Against the risks of climate change.

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<v Speaker 1>This particular study, they worked with the National Treasury, which

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<v Speaker 1>through fiscal transfers, is helping municipalities do this. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>there's work that the Human Settlement's Department is doing. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the department responsible for housing and building homes for people.

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<v Speaker 4>There's a specific.

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<v Speaker 1>Informal settlement upgrading grants that's aimed at upgrading informal settlements

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<v Speaker 1>of South Africa so that people have housing, proper housing.

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<v Speaker 1>So basically they take them out of these informal structures

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<v Speaker 1>and build homes for them, and the National Treasury is

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<v Speaker 1>actually advocating for them to think about climate risk strategies

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<v Speaker 1>or climate resilience strategies so that they can actually apply

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<v Speaker 1>them in building these houses. So there is work that

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<v Speaker 1>is being done, and there are also heat action plan

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<v Speaker 1>and that cities are expected to adopt. In fact, one

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<v Speaker 1>was approved in the city of Cape Town And they

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<v Speaker 1>are doing work such as coming up with.

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<v Speaker 4>Alert systems for when they expect there.

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<v Speaker 1>To be like an extreme heat wave and basically educating

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<v Speaker 1>dwellers of these places for how to deal with the

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<v Speaker 1>risks of climate change. And they're also encouraging them to

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<v Speaker 1>go on these huge planting drives so that they can

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<v Speaker 1>increase the vegetation around them.

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<v Speaker 2>And when it comes to the infrastructure, do we know

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<v Speaker 2>exactly what it is that needs to be implemented into

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<v Speaker 2>these townships.

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<v Speaker 1>There are some ideas that have been thrown around. One

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<v Speaker 1>obvious one is painting the rules of these structures with

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<v Speaker 1>white paints so as to increase the amount of heat

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<v Speaker 1>that can be trapped. In terms of the infrastructure, that

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<v Speaker 1>is some of what is being suggested more ventilation as

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<v Speaker 1>well as some of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And what's the likelihood that will actually see some change,

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<v Speaker 2>Because I mean, this is a pretty large issue that

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be handled and tackle.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very difficult because even if you think about like

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned earlier.

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<v Speaker 4>That this is a legacy issue.

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<v Speaker 1>South Africa has been trying to sort out, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>its housing crisis for thirty years, and they have not

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<v Speaker 1>been able to break this inequality when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>its special divide that sees black people basically left to

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<v Speaker 1>the margins of the city, which is where people feel

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<v Speaker 1>the most adverse effect of climate change. I'd be less

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<v Speaker 1>hopeful that this can be done very quickly because of

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that historically, even just the housing crisis has

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<v Speaker 1>been very difficult to sort out. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>I think one can be encouraged that they are actually

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about how the impacts of climate change affect people,

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<v Speaker 1>and that they are making a more concerted effort to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that there's budgeting for it and to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that municipalities following some of these strategies that they

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<v Speaker 1>are suggesting.

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<v Speaker 2>And we hear from a number of climate strategists saying

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<v Speaker 2>that of course this stream weather it's going to continue

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<v Speaker 2>if the right mitigation measures aren't put in place. What's

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<v Speaker 2>the outlook then for these communities, And I wonder when

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<v Speaker 2>you speak to them, how do they feel about the

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<v Speaker 2>issue now and maybe where it's headed towards if something's

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<v Speaker 2>not done.

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<v Speaker 1>To be honest, while it is a worry, they worry

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<v Speaker 1>it more about the lack of basic services. I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like for them that is a far reach. The first

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<v Speaker 1>thing that they want to see is running water in

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<v Speaker 1>the community that I went too.

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<v Speaker 4>Specifically, when you.

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<v Speaker 1>Walk into the streets, you literally see open sewer trickling

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<v Speaker 1>down the streets and the stench is quite strong. And

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<v Speaker 1>what a Nolusando kept on saying, or keeps on emphasizing,

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<v Speaker 1>was the fact that it just stinks and it's worse

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<v Speaker 1>when it becomes hotter and hotter, and sorting that issue

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<v Speaker 1>out first would be the price for them. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's still a bit far from actually thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about how does weigha affect me? Infect some of them

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<v Speaker 1>are actually oblivious to how the impetsul climate change affect them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're just trying to get through the here and

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<v Speaker 2>now before thinking about the future.

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<v Speaker 3>And Tondo, fantastic reporting.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for joining us and a really

0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.719
<v Speaker 2>fascinating read that everybody should check out.

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<v Speaker 3>And Tondo thanks sure, Thank you, Jo and Tondo, thanks

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<v Speaker 3>so much.

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<v Speaker 2>For joining US and for your reporting on this story,

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and you can read in Tondo's story on Bloomberg News.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll put a link into our show notes some other

0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.679
<v Speaker 2>stories we're watching in the region this week. Germany has

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<v Speaker 2>now detected two potential cases of the Marlburg virus. The

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<v Speaker 2>highly contagious disease mainly found in Africa, has seen in

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 2>upticking cases as of recent According to the WHO, the

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<v Speaker 2>virus has a fatality rate of as much as eighty

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<v Speaker 2>eight percent. And Ethiopia has asked holders of its one

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollar bond to take an eighteen percent loss in

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<v Speaker 2>a debt restructuring strategy.

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<v Speaker 3>The influential group of investors.

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<v Speaker 2>Including the likes of Morgan Stanley, Asset Management and New

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<v Speaker 2>State Partners, has already rejected such an offer in advance.

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<v Speaker 2>You can follow these stories across Bloomberg, including the Next

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 2>African Newsletter. We'll also put a link to that in

0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 2>the show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley.

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Don't forget to follow and review the show wherever you

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.440
<v Speaker 2>usually get your podcast. I'm Jennifer's Abasanja. Thanks for listening.