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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Andri with you, Doctor Richard Gallagher with us with his

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Speaker 1: latest book, Demonic Foes. Richard, Let's get into this case

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Speaker 1: of Julia the High Priestess and see how you handle

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Speaker 1: this thing. Well. Again, I want to emphasize that Julia,

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Speaker 1: as all these cases, are not patients of mine. They're

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Speaker 1: just people that I've consulted on, mostly for clergy, and

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Speaker 1: it's a pseudonym. So anyway, she was described not only

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Speaker 1: to me with independent evidence that she was a member

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Speaker 1: of a rare Satanic cult, which is rare in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: but she was also described by the two exorcists. She

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Speaker 1: worked with, two exercists who at the time where very

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Speaker 1: prominent and amongst a few really official exercists in the

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Speaker 1: United States. They became friends of mine. They took me

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Speaker 1: to a lot of different cases as part of the

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Speaker 1: reason I had so much experience at that point, and

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Speaker 1: they described Julia, these very experienced guys, as the most

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Speaker 1: dramatic possession they had ever seen in their own lives,

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Speaker 1: so somewhat annoyingly to me, I was introduced to her

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Speaker 1: to her the morning after something strange happened in my house.

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Speaker 1: I was in my bedroom with my wife and we

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Speaker 1: had two cats who would lie on the bed at night,

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Speaker 1: and they were fairly well behaved and placid cats, and

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Speaker 1: they just went berserk and they started clawing and scratching

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Speaker 1: each other. I thought it was like a fight to

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Speaker 1: the death, and we had to separate them, and we

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Speaker 1: kind of looked at each other, you know what got

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Speaker 1: into them? So the next morning, unannounced, I get a

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Speaker 1: ring on the doorbell of my house and this priest

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Speaker 1: who I had worked on a couple of less serious cases,

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Speaker 1: came to my door with Julia. I couldn't believe that

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Speaker 1: he would bring this woman to my house, but he

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Speaker 1: told me later as he apologized, he said, well, really,

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Speaker 1: I really wanted to keep things moving because you know

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Speaker 1: she has some ambivalence. I wanted to introduce you to

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Speaker 1: her as soon as possible. Subsequently, I had many conversations

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Speaker 1: with Julia, although again I didn't treat her so long

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Speaker 1: story short, I go to the door and I opened

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Speaker 1: the door and there is this priest, exorcist and Julia

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Speaker 1: standing there. And Julia looks at me in the eye

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Speaker 1: and says, hi, doctor Gallagher, nice to meet you. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, I never met this woman before. She says,

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Speaker 1: by the way, how did you like those cats last night? WHOA? Well,

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Speaker 1: I was pretty amazed. And there were many, many remarkable

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Speaker 1: incidents working with this woman. Because she was an outride

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Speaker 1: devil worshiper. Did she act evil as far as you

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Speaker 1: could tell, Well, she was a little nasty. I mean

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Speaker 1: she always treated me. I think she respected me as

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Speaker 1: a position. She was nasty to the priest. Not exactly

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Speaker 1: sure why they put up with it, but you know,

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Speaker 1: they were good hearted souls, and she definitely had done

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Speaker 1: some grizzly stuff in her life, which I don't really

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Speaker 1: want to get into entirely. Understand it involves some things

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Speaker 1: that would be shocking to most people and were to me.

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Speaker 1: So I was asked not so much to diagnose, sire,

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Speaker 1: and the official diagnosis is made by the exorcist. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: even though I have obviously a diagnostic impression, I became

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Speaker 1: quickly convinced that she was possessed. Her case went so

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Speaker 1: beyond the psychiatric. An example of that was the priest

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Speaker 1: and I were driving in the car talking to each

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Speaker 1: other about where we was going to schedule when and

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Speaker 1: where he was going to schedule the exorcism. And Julia,

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Speaker 1: who was a woman in her thirties by the way,

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Speaker 1: She was in the backseat of the car. And as

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Speaker 1: we're chatting, all of a sudden, we hear this voice

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Speaker 1: come out of her. She was obviously in some kind

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Speaker 1: of trance. And I'm not going to try to imitate

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Speaker 1: the voice, but one of those guttural sounds, right, it

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Speaker 1: was Gutterah was raspy. It was clearly using the vocal cords.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it didn't feel like in a disembodied voice.

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Speaker 1: But all of a sudden, the voice says, as a

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Speaker 1: woman as ours, I told you, you epping priest, leave

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Speaker 1: her alone. You know you'll be sorry. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I looked to the priest, and you know, he sort

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Speaker 1: of looked at me, like, see what we're dealing with.

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Speaker 1: Rich This was clearly not multiple personality or something we

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Speaker 1: can get into that. Yeah, I was going to ask

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Speaker 1: you about that. And a little bit later, um uh.

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Speaker 1: This went on for about five minutes. A little bit later,

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Speaker 1: she said something that I always remembered. She said, I

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Speaker 1: said to leave leave her alone. She's ours, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you're a you're a stupid monkey. Priest. I always was

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Speaker 1: struck by that phrase, because these intelligence, these these entities,

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Speaker 1: these intelligences, these creatures, we believe are fallen angels, and

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Speaker 1: we believe that as Catholics, they're very highly intelligent, much

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Speaker 1: more intelligent and then human beings. And I always talk.

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Speaker 1: I always thought, even though this guy was quite quite

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Speaker 1: a scholarly intelligent man, that to them, the demons which

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Speaker 1: I felt we were dealing with, uh, we're just stupid animals,

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Speaker 1: you know, We're like stupid evolved monkeys. You must have

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Speaker 1: freaked out with that sound. Well, I had heard, I

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Speaker 1: had heard a few cases before. This was not the

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Speaker 1: first possession case I had, but it was pretty dramatic.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you when I did freak out. It's the

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Speaker 1: only time in my life where literally the hair in

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Speaker 1: the back of my neck who went up. I could

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Speaker 1: feel it. I was on the phone with the priest

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later, and he was trying to

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Speaker 1: schedule an exorcism. I never actually, I've been to scores

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Speaker 1: of exorcisms in my life, but I never actually I

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Speaker 1: was able to go to hers, you know, I've always

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Speaker 1: been fairly busy, professional guy. So we're talking about when

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Speaker 1: the exorcism is going to be and I'm telling him,

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Speaker 1: you know, look, father Jacques, that's what I call him

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Speaker 1: in the book. I said, I really can't make it.

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Speaker 1: And we're on a landline, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: that same voice, that same voice that I heard come

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Speaker 1: out of her, comes in over the phone line. This

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Speaker 1: was a land line, it wasn't a cell phone. We

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Speaker 1: knew where the woman was because she had gone home.

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Speaker 1: She was about a thousand miles away. Literally, we knew that.

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Speaker 1: And it said the same thing. Can we say to

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Speaker 1: leave par alone? You stupid priest, you epping idiot. You know.

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Speaker 1: It went on with It went on about you know,

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Speaker 1: about thirty seconds in this case, and you know that

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Speaker 1: was spooky. I mean, and I said to the priest,

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Speaker 1: I said, did you hear that? He's he was somewhat

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Speaker 1: of a phlegmatic guy. And he said, uh, yeah, Rich

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Speaker 1: you know this and obvious believe would her being a

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Speaker 1: thousand miles away. It wasn't her breaking in on the

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Speaker 1: phone line or anything. It was the evil s Now,

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Speaker 1: how do you know, as a psychiatrist doctor that this

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Speaker 1: person isn't mentally imbalanced as opposed to demonically possessed. How

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Speaker 1: do you distinguish that? Well, first of all, I got

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Speaker 1: to know her very well, and I knew she I

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Speaker 1: know she was mentally healthy. In fact, she was a

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Speaker 1: pretty thoughtful, intelligent person. What's she nice when she wasn't

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Speaker 1: in that mode? Well, I won't say exactly. I want

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Speaker 1: to exactly describe her as a nice person in her

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Speaker 1: normal state, because people go in and out of these

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Speaker 1: possession states. In her normal state, I mean, she certainly

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Speaker 1: was pleasant enough to me, in cooperative enough to me.

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Speaker 1: She always told me I'll tell you the truth, Doctor Gallagher.

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Speaker 1: Seemed to be a nice guy. In fact, I even

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Speaker 1: have a letter to that effect effect from her. But

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Speaker 1: to get to your question, people think sometimes that these

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Speaker 1: cases we just sort of intuit or you know, we

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Speaker 1: get a spiritual sense about them. No, that's that's not,

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Speaker 1: at least the way most good Christian exorcists work, certainly

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Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church is very rigorous criteria. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the exorcist is not only supposed to be a holy

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Speaker 1: man and not prone to hysteria, but it's also supposed

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Speaker 1: to be very knowledgeable and the criteria are quite rigorous.

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Speaker 1: I mean, not only do you have this voice emerging

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Speaker 1: from them in the most serious cases, and the stuff

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Speaker 1: exists on a continuum. In the most serious cases, the

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Speaker 1: consciousness has submerged, so that, for instance, in the car,

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Speaker 1: Julia had no idea that this voice came out of her.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you that they're not aware

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Speaker 1: of it, are they? Well, again, there's an exception to

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Speaker 1: every rule. There are exceptions where the person is aware

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Speaker 1: of the voice taking them over. It's almost like watching

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Speaker 1: themselves in a movie, they say. But in the worst cases,

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Speaker 1: the demon has a very stronghold on the person and

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Speaker 1: the voice manifests itself and the person doesn't doesn't remember it.

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Speaker 1: And this was the case with her. So you need

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Speaker 1: this kind of malevolent personality emerging, which is quite nasty,

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Speaker 1: quite hateful, expresses tremendous repugnance towards religion or human beings

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Speaker 1: in general for that matter. Have they ever tried to

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Speaker 1: hurt you or the exorcist during these episodes. I've had

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Speaker 1: some threats, but they they they tend to focus on

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Speaker 1: the exorcist and when they're restrained or an an existent,

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Speaker 1: because otherwise they would run away. They would either run

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Speaker 1: away or they would attack the exorcists. Interesting to finish

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Speaker 1: the point about the criteria, so you have to have

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Speaker 1: this evidence of a nasty entity taking over the consciousness,

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Speaker 1: but you also have to have some signs which you know,

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Speaker 1: the modern term is paranormal. I don't particularly like that term.

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Speaker 1: It's a modern term. It's about phenomena that used to

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Speaker 1: be called you know, non non material or spiritual, supernatural,

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Speaker 1: supernatural or diabolic, one or the other. And you have

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Speaker 1: to have those criteria. Even in the sixteen fourteen ritual

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Speaker 1: of the Catholic Church called the Roman Ritual, it suggests

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Speaker 1: strong signs such as superhuman strength, knowledge of hidden things.

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Speaker 1: And for instance, Julia had all kinds of knowledge of

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Speaker 1: things she could not otherwise know. She knew how a

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Speaker 1: lot of people died, and in fact she told me, oh,

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Speaker 1: your mother died of ovarian cancer. Now you know, she

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Speaker 1: had no way of knowing that, but she would have

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Speaker 1: all kinds of hidden knowledge like that. And then you

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Speaker 1: also you also will see the individual not only superhuman strength,

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Speaker 1: but speaking in foreign languages. And these creatures are very smart.

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Speaker 1: And somebody said, well, how come they always speak Laddin?

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Speaker 1: I said, they don't always speak Laddin, they speak all

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Speaker 1: languages because they've been observing human beings from the beginning

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Speaker 1: of his right. So you have to have these very

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Speaker 1: strict criteria. The exists is supposed to have certainty, moral certainty,

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Speaker 1: and that's how they're diagnosed. They're diagnosed with a great

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Speaker 1: deal of rigorous and I would say scientific precision. Richard,

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Speaker 1: who opens the door to let them in? How does

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Speaker 1: that happen? Well, there are different there are different reasons.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you, mister Nuri. The most common reasons

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Speaker 1: for a for a for a real possession, and there

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Speaker 1: are there are a minor variety of of demonic attacks

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Speaker 1: that are a little bit different than have have varied causes.

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Speaker 1: But the most common thing for a person who gets

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Speaker 1: themselves possessed is that they've had a serious involvement with

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Speaker 1: the occult, dark forces, dark magic, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: Board sometimes in the case of Julia, you know, outright

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Speaker 1: devil worship and say, yeah, okay, what about playing with

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Speaker 1: Auigi board. Well, again, you know, if if a teenager

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Speaker 1: plays with Auigi board, I don't think that's a healthy

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Speaker 1: thing to do. But you know, I don't think you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get possessed just because you fooled around with your

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Speaker 1: girlfriends or auigi board, you know. But the other reason

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Speaker 1: that people and there is an overlap, But the other

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Speaker 1: reason that people can get possessed possessed is when they

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Speaker 1: turned to a very serious pursuit of evil, you know,

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Speaker 1: highly sociopathic, highly sinful, highly nefarious behavior. Give you an example.

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Speaker 1: I had a guy who was possessed, and he had

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Speaker 1: both of these things, because there's often an overlap between

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Speaker 1: those two things. He was a gangster, I was a

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Speaker 1: violent man. He was a drug dealer, and he turned

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Speaker 1: his friends, his compadres, told them to turn to Satan

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Speaker 1: and worshiped Satan, and he'd become more successful. And that

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Speaker 1: happened for a while. I mean, all these people expect

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Speaker 1: some kind of favor and return. So he became sort

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Speaker 1: a king of the heap, as the word he us

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Speaker 1: I also describe him, you know, in my book demonoposed

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Speaker 1: and he then got caught by the police. He got

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Speaker 1: put in prison, so his life crashed, and the prison

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Speaker 1: chaplain discern that he was possessed, and he had the criteria,

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Speaker 1: did a few exorcisms. It helped, but it didn't completely

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Speaker 1: eliminate the demon, and so he after he was released

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Speaker 1: from prison, which he was and his wife described to

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Speaker 1: me that he was speaking Latin and he was dating

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Speaker 1: from the bed once the one of the dioceses dealt

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Speaker 1: with him successfully and he was eventually delivered. But in

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Speaker 1: his case he had both at turned to evil as

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Speaker 1: well as they turned to you know, Satanic worship. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like these entities abandoned the person, not necessarily leaving

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Speaker 1: the body, but they abandoned them in terms of help

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Speaker 1: helping them, you know, get away from the police or

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Speaker 1: helping them, you know, benefit. They don't seem to go

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Speaker 1: the full distance with them, do they. Well, it's a

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Speaker 1: snare because they really they really hate human beings. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in a way, they hate human beings because we have

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Speaker 1: the ability to have a relationship with God and where

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Speaker 1: you know, we have the image of God in us

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Speaker 1: and we can still you know, join God, go to Heaven, etc.

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Speaker 1: And what they really hate because they rebelled from God,

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Speaker 1: and then they hate God's creatures, human beings who still

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Speaker 1: have disability to turn to God and to turn to

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Speaker 1: love because they've they've kind of renounced um. In my opinion,

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Speaker 1: they've renounced all kind of loving personality um in their

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Speaker 1: own in their own existence, because they've rebelled against that.

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Speaker 1: They they said, I have turned to themselves, and as

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Speaker 1: it says in scripture, they go to their own place.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast am every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to Coast

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