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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha a ky stuff. I

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Speaker 1: never told you a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the show. Katie Mitchell. It's been a minute, but

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Speaker 1: we are so glad to have you back. Can you

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Speaker 1: introduce yourself to our audience please?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me back. I'm Katie Mitchell

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Speaker 2: and I am the author of Prose to the People,

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Speaker 2: a celebration of black bookstores.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and last time you were on here, you were

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Speaker 1: with our good friend Eves talking about on theme and

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Speaker 1: the power of black storytelling, and you mentioned that you

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Speaker 1: were working on this book about black bookstores and we

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Speaker 1: were like, yes, you muscome back, you complete it, and

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Speaker 1: here you are, and it's coming out as we record

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Speaker 1: this very very soon. First of all, congrats, Yes, it

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Speaker 1: is an amazing book and we'll be talking all about it.

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Speaker 1: But can you give us the rundown of this book?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I say, pro To the People is a exploration

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Speaker 2: of black bookstores across space and time. So I had

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to travel all around the country talking to

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Speaker 2: black bookstore owners, but I also included bookstores that no

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Speaker 2: longer exist. So the book starts in eighteen thirty, which

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Speaker 2: most people don't realize that we had black bookstores in

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Speaker 2: eighteen thirty and it goes all the way to present day.

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Speaker 2: So I hope that people will look at the book

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Speaker 2: and say, oh, hey, I want to go to this

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Speaker 2: store when I'm in a particular city. But for the

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Speaker 2: ones that are closed, I wanted people to be able

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Speaker 2: to visit them in a way too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is something that's correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: But that was very near and dear to your heart

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Speaker 1: and kind of your interests in what you do, right exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, we were talking about black storytelling

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Speaker 2: last time I was on and so black bookstores of course,

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Speaker 2: like Cradle all all of our stories. So I'm really

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Speaker 2: excited about pros being almost out into the world. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm a bookseller along with my mom, so I thought

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Speaker 2: it was a perfect fit to bring this book to

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Speaker 2: the people.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and there were definitely some stores that were in

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Speaker 1: there because we were all in Atlanta, and I was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I want to go and check this out. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us what made you decide to write this book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think it was just like a deep curiosity. I've

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Speaker 2: seen how transformational black bookstores have been to myself, and

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Speaker 2: I see them as transformational as say black churches or

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Speaker 2: black colleges. But I found that they were understudied institutions,

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Speaker 2: which I found ironic because they cradle all our history

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Speaker 2: and we haven't told the history of the Black bookstore yet,

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Speaker 2: And so that led me to want to learn more

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Speaker 2: and to share it with others.

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Speaker 1: And it's as you said, it was quite the process.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like that you spent these two years traveling,

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Speaker 1: you talked to a wide variety of people. How was

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Speaker 1: that process for you and what are some of the

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Speaker 1: places that maybe stand out?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot of people, owners, customers, family members,

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Speaker 2: you know. I had one instance in Atlanta where I

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Speaker 2: was just talking about the book and I was saying

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Speaker 2: that this bookstore in Harlem called Liberation Bookstore was in

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Speaker 2: the book. And she was like, oh, yeah, like that's

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Speaker 2: my auntie And I was like huh.

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Speaker 3: And I was telling her how.

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Speaker 2: Like I couldn't get pictures for that store because pros

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Speaker 2: is filled with pictures and e Femerara, it's very visual

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Speaker 2: and designed book. And I was telling her I was

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Speaker 2: having a hard time finding pictures and she was like,

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Speaker 2: I have pictures, and I was like, oh, can you

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Speaker 2: bring them like tomorrow. She's like yeah, and she like

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Speaker 2: gave me the original pictures. I was like, no, it's okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll just take a scan of it. She's like, no,

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Speaker 2: I want you to have it. I want it to

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Speaker 2: be in the book. And so it was like kind

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Speaker 2: of those like very like serendipitous encounters that made me

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Speaker 2: feel like the book was just like supposed to happen,

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Speaker 2: you know, like meeting people who are just so willing

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Speaker 2: to help with the book. But yeah, traveling across the

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Speaker 2: country and talking to people like I met so many

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Speaker 2: elders who like really told me so much about what

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Speaker 2: was going on in the sixties and you know, the seventies, eighties, nineties,

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Speaker 2: and that was really helpful too to get their perspective.

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Speaker 2: And some of them had even written about black bookstores

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Speaker 2: from like the eighties and nineties, so that was helpful

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Speaker 2: to incorporate that in the book and to be able

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Speaker 2: to share their work in my was really fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was so cool. You went, you

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Speaker 1: went all over This is amazing. Was there something that

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Speaker 1: you learned during your travels that really stuck with you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that I kind of knew about

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Speaker 2: the bookstore, but it kept coming up in the reporting

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Speaker 2: was the connection to incarcerated people. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: the bookstores have a component where they're making sure that

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Speaker 2: books are getting to our incarcerated siblings. And that goes

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Speaker 2: back from the sixties or even at the beginning, because

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Speaker 2: the first black bookstore owner in the United States was abolitionists,

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Speaker 2: so he was freeing people, like freeing the bodies and

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Speaker 2: minds at the same time, right, And so I found

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Speaker 2: that black bookstore owners really tried to take care of

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Speaker 2: those who are incarcerated and people that the state attempts

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Speaker 2: to disappear from our communities. So you'll find that at

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Speaker 2: Radical Hood Library in la which is owned by the

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Speaker 2: rapper No Name, and even the Black Book Who which

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Speaker 2: was owned by Paul Coates Twnahasecoats's dad in Baltimore. So

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Speaker 2: he had a program where he was sending books to

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Speaker 2: incarcerated black panthers and making sure that they knew what

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Speaker 2: was going on in the outside. So and that's something

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Speaker 2: that I found really unique to black bookstores, right, Like

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Speaker 2: you don't really hear about like grocery stores or even

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Speaker 2: museums or you know, dentist offices really caring about what's

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Speaker 2: going on with folks in prison in a in a

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Speaker 2: collective way. So that was one thing that I learned.

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Speaker 4: Wow, Like that's an incredible level of history that I

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Speaker 4: didn't even think on, and that makes so much sense

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Speaker 4: in just in general, like the tight knit community that

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Speaker 4: these bookstores have built, Like just the fact that you

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Speaker 4: in Atlanta are connecting to people in Harlem just in

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Speaker 4: conversation in a bookstore, which is amazing. And you also

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Speaker 4: so earlier talked about the fact that it is an institution,

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Speaker 4: that the black bookstores are an institution in itself. So

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Speaker 4: can you kind of elaborate and define black bookstores and

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Speaker 4: can you give us a brief history and the importance

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Speaker 4: that they have left and continue to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I define black bookstores in prose to the

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Speaker 2: people as a bookstore that specializes in black publications. And

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Speaker 2: I make the distinction between a black bookstore and a

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Speaker 2: black owned bookstore, which a black owned bookstore could be

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Speaker 2: just a black person who owns a book store that

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Speaker 2: carries all types of books that don't specialize in black publications.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, they started, to the best of our knowledge

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Speaker 2: with David ruggles in the eighteen thirties and abolitionists who

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Speaker 2: actually helped free Frederick Douglas. Him and his first wife

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Speaker 2: were married at his bookstore, little known fact. And I

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Speaker 2: think that set the tone for black bookstores in the

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Speaker 2: United States of being sites of liberation. And we see

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Speaker 2: this throughout history as black bookstores being at the van

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Speaker 2: guard of social movement, so the abolitionist movement, the civil

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Speaker 2: rights movement, the Black panther, black power movement, black arts movement,

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Speaker 2: and now the movement for Black Lives. In Harlem, Malcolm

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Speaker 2: X had his home bookstore, and like all the pictures

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Speaker 2: that you see of him out in the street in Harlem,

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Speaker 2: he's usually in front of that bookstore, you know, gathering

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Speaker 2: people and trying to you know, get people to change

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Speaker 2: their minds as he's trying to change society.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you talk a lot about how they

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Speaker 1: serve as much more than a bookstore, like they offer

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Speaker 1: these places for social ideas, but also things like yeah,

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Speaker 1: getting books two incarcerated people and just how that really

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Speaker 1: sets them apart. And on top of that, you just

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Speaker 1: you have so many amazing, amazing stories in here with

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Speaker 1: just this wide range of bookstores, some that specialize and

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Speaker 1: maybe like cook books or children's literature or a sci

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Speaker 1: fi book vending machine. How did you choose? How did

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Speaker 1: you choose these stores?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a doozy.

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Speaker 2: I think when I proposed the book, I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't have like twenty four stores, it'll be cool.

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Speaker 2: And then of course, once you go down the rabbit

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Speaker 2: hole of actually doing the research, so many more stores

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Speaker 2: make it into the book. But I really focused on

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Speaker 2: that definition of specializing in black publications, and I think

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Speaker 2: as a journalist a lot of it is access. So

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Speaker 2: who did I have access to, who was a cooperative source,

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Speaker 2: who showed up to the interviews, things like that on

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Speaker 2: a practical level, and then yeah, like trying to make

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Speaker 2: an even distribution of regions, but then also including, like

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Speaker 2: you said, those specialty stores to show the different ways

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Speaker 2: that black booksellers show up and you know, showcase their

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Speaker 2: interest through their inventory, I thought would be really cool.

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Speaker 4: It's so good. And when I'm reading through this, they're like,

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Speaker 4: you had specialized bookstores and one it says to the

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Speaker 4: black girls, specifically to the black girls, And it was

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Speaker 4: such an amazing like ideal, like, yes, this is something

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Speaker 4: that is set up for a welcome community where a

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Speaker 4: lot of times they may not feel like they are welcome.

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Speaker 4: Like we talk about women in stem and all the time,

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Speaker 4: and like how long it took in general to feel

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Speaker 4: like they could be a part of that industry or

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Speaker 4: that community in general. But with all of that, some

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Speaker 4: of these stories are so great and based around black women.

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Speaker 4: Can you share one with us or something that listeners

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Speaker 4: can look forward to? Specifically? I kind of gave you

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Speaker 4: one away, I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the one you're referencing is called a Done. It's

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Speaker 2: in Bedstye in New York, and her story is really cool.

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Speaker 2: I liked it because it was so eclectic. She had

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Speaker 2: her father's like oh vinyls. I was like, oh, could

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Speaker 2: I have that? And she's like, girl, no, this day

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Speaker 2: is like stop planning. But she has like really cool

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Speaker 2: events there. They do like a lot of like things

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Speaker 2: with plans and just like very hands on like sewing

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Speaker 2: things and like crafty things, which I think, like is

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Speaker 2: really cool because sometimes when you're like in adulthood, you're

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Speaker 2: like over the club, like let's just hang out at

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Speaker 2: the bookstore and have a good time and meet friends.

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Speaker 2: And while I was there, I could see people like

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Speaker 2: becoming friends, like sharing their birth charts and stuff. I

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Speaker 2: was like, this is so girly, but I loved it

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Speaker 2: because it's like that's what, that's who it was meant for,

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Speaker 2: and I could see it happening in real time. Another

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Speaker 2: one that I thought was really fun was the sci

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Speaker 2: fi book vending machine, which is just such a great idea,

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Speaker 2: especially with like rent being so high and not every

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Speaker 2: community has a brick and mortar bookstore, but being able

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Speaker 2: to be able to provide books that are really curated

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Speaker 2: and thoughtful in a small space I think is really cool,

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Speaker 2: and like they're into sci fi, it gives a little

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Speaker 2: of sci fi energy having a book vending machine there too.

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Speaker 2: So those are two that I think readers will really enjoy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I thought about Annie in

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Speaker 4: that moment because I was like, she would love this.

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Speaker 4: I do the sci fi vending machines coming in using

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Speaker 4: a machine to get to it. Anyway, I was having

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Speaker 4: a fun time reading through these. These are such an

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Speaker 4: amazing inventive like innovative ideas and distributing books because it

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Speaker 4: needs more and more of these things. And with that, like,

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Speaker 4: as I'm looking through all of the pictures. First of all,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't know why. Immediately, the smell of

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Speaker 4: an old bookstore hit me the minute I opened up

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Speaker 4: your book, Like look through your book, I was like, wow,

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Speaker 4: I can smell it. I can fill the arthiness when

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Speaker 4: you walk into the comforting areas with all the books

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Speaker 4: surrounding you.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 4: It's one of my favorite things to do is to

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Speaker 4: peruse all the titles and just smell the old books.

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Speaker 4: There's something to it. And with that, I know that's

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Speaker 4: something that you've been complimented, and like this book has

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Speaker 4: already been celebrated because of these beautiful images. Can you

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Speaker 4: talk about all these pictures that you came and then

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Speaker 4: of course the ending picture like with you with all

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Speaker 4: the different people that you've met through out your tour

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Speaker 4: was so cool. But anyway, can you talk about the

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Speaker 4: images in your book?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when I said out to write Pros,

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Speaker 2: I wanted it to feel like a bookstore. So that's

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Speaker 2: a very high compliment you just gave me. But like

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Speaker 2: when you go into a bookstore, you don't just hear

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Speaker 2: from one person, you don't just see one thing. So

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be filled with multiple voices, multiple genres,

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Speaker 2: and multimedia, because I wanted people to feel like they

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Speaker 2: were in a black bookstore while reading it and to

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Speaker 2: understand that comfort. So even in the some of the

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Speaker 2: bookstores that don't exist, I'm always asking them like, what

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Speaker 2: did it smell?

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Speaker 3: Like? What were y'all saying? What were y'all talking about?

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Speaker 3: Was there a fried chicken place there? Did the smell

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Speaker 3: come in?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: I was really trying to capture what it felt to

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Speaker 2: be in those stores, and that was the goal from

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Speaker 2: the beginning. I was lucky enough to be able to

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Speaker 2: go into archives and find old pictures from the stores

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Speaker 2: that don't exist, or like I said, some people would

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Speaker 2: just off up their pictures. There's a lot of ephemeris,

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Speaker 2: so you see like the flyers and the brochures that

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Speaker 2: people were putting out for their bookstores and different events

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Speaker 2: that were going on at the time. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: wanted it to be very interactive and something that you

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Speaker 2: can come back to multiple times and find something new

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Speaker 2: each time.

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Speaker 4: I will say also, one of the things that really

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Speaker 4: permeated throughout these pictures is just the joy. There was

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Speaker 4: so much joy in having people celebrate their own books

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Speaker 4: and the releases or sitting with people that they love

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Speaker 4: the picture specifically, I think it's like Rosa Defie, Yes,

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Speaker 4: and like all the people that came through her path

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Speaker 4: and like her smile. There was so much joy in

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Speaker 4: these images, and you did such a fantastic job and

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Speaker 4: relaying their stories, and I know you had like interviewed

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Speaker 4: a lot of them. Was that something important that you

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Speaker 4: wanted to show in showcase?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to capture everyone's personality, and I think

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Speaker 2: oftentimes those black stories sometimes we only get shined when

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Speaker 2: something's like very terrible is going on. And I was like,

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Speaker 2: this isn't that, Like this is a celebration, and you know,

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Speaker 2: being in the community, I understand that, like guess, bad

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Speaker 2: things do happen, but like we're not always like in turmoil.

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Speaker 2: We do have joy. We are celebrating, we're with our

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Speaker 2: friends and family, you know, we're listening to future and

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Speaker 2: just hanging out sometimes. And that's what I wanted to

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Speaker 2: capture with those interviews.

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Speaker 3: Well done, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it definitely gives the vibe of I've stepped into

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Speaker 1: a bookstore, which is really awesome. Because Samantha and I

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Speaker 1: we like when we travel together, we always go to

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Speaker 1: bookstores and we go to libraries. It's just we love it.

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Speaker 1: So this is this is such a great, a great concept,

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Speaker 1: and it's something Yeah, I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't know about. One of the things you talk about

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Speaker 1: in here, and people you interviewed talked about a lot,

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Speaker 1: is that there's a lot of discussion around knowledge being power,

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Speaker 1: the power of learning, the power of teaching that knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Can you expound on that a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In the introduction, which was written by Nikki Giovanni, she says,

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Speaker 2: pro to the people reminds us that black is beautiful,

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Speaker 2: but knowledge is power, and that is a quote from

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Speaker 2: one of the preeminent booksellers, Lewis Michau. And I think

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Speaker 2: what we're getting at is that black books, but books

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Speaker 2: in general, are very liberating. And in this country, the

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Speaker 2: project of black reading, black writing, black publishing, there's always

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Speaker 2: been tension there. It was illegal for us to read

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Speaker 2: when we were enslaved here, and now you see book

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Speaker 2: bands disproportionately affecting black books, and there's something there where

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Speaker 2: they attack the whole project of black thought. And so

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Speaker 2: I think, as black people, we know the importance of

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Speaker 2: books and reading and knowledge and passing that down, and

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Speaker 2: we understand if we don't keep that tradition going, what

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Speaker 2: could happen and what those who do not want to

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Speaker 2: see us flourish would like to happen. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's a trend or a through line that you see

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Speaker 2: from the eighteen thirties with David Ruggles as the first

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Speaker 2: black bookstore owner to current day.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, speaking of current day, this is jumping ahead

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Speaker 1: a bit in our outline of question, but the book

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Speaker 1: does have a lot of discussion as well about the

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Speaker 1: importance of history. And as you said, right now we're

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Speaker 1: seeing such an active pushback on teaching black history and schools,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing so many book bands, So can you speak

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Speaker 1: to that and why it's this preserving of history and

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Speaker 1: these the black book stores that are doing it is

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Speaker 1: so vital right now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the story of the Black

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Speaker 2: book Store is unfolding in past and present tense, like

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Speaker 2: with the book, showing the book stories that no longer

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Speaker 2: exist in conversation with those that do. It's the same

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Speaker 2: with our history. And if you don't know what happened

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Speaker 2: before and what the state or the powers that be

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Speaker 2: did to try to stop the people that came before us.

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Speaker 3: You can think like, oh.

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Speaker 2: Wow, this is so bad, like no one's ever gone

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Speaker 2: through this, like what are we going to do? But

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Speaker 2: the less sins are right there, Like book bands aren't new. Really,

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Speaker 2: they're kind of tame compared to what you know, the

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Speaker 2: FBI was doing before. There's so many instances of black

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Speaker 2: bookstores being firebombed and flooded. Black booksellers have been arrested, framed,

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Speaker 2: and you know there's something too. Knowing that you, as

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Speaker 2: a black person reading or selling books is so threatening

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Speaker 2: and you think, what are in these books that they

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Speaker 2: don't want us to read? And to me makes me

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Speaker 2: want to read them more. It makes me want to

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Speaker 2: know more. But yeah, it's been happening and it's still

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Speaker 2: happening unfortunately, but we are our elders and our ancestors

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Speaker 2: have shown us what we need to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the like good news bad news situation of

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Speaker 4: like we've seen this before. It's been bad, but we

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Speaker 4: know we can do this because we have survived this

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Speaker 4: and we being so many marginalized people, but specifically of

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Speaker 4: the black community, and it's kind of and I've seen

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Speaker 4: it in the black community here in Atlanta and where

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Speaker 4: they're just like, yeah, it's been happening. Where have you been,

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Speaker 4: Like to the rest of the community and be like,

355
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Speaker 4: we've been doing the work. Now you're just noticing it.

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Speaker 4: And it's a reminder and that both of these things

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Speaker 4: is why not only do the black community and your

358
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 4: book and so much more that celebrate them pushing back

359
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Speaker 4: And it's to that point of understanding that part of

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Speaker 4: the rebellion is celebrating and making sure that we are

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Speaker 4: still acknowledging what is happening and how that that you exist,

362
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Speaker 4: we as a system exist and will not be tied

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Speaker 4: down or quiet. And I love that that's what this

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Speaker 4: book seems to represent. It's such a perfect timing and

365
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Speaker 4: bringing this type of joy but understanding and power of learning,

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Speaker 4: and the fact that you're giving us an amazing list

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Speaker 4: because I know you talked about so many of them,

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Speaker 4: but then in the later part of the book you

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Speaker 4: give even more. You're like, oh, yeah, I only talked

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Speaker 4: about these things these stores, but there's so much more,

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Speaker 4: And that's powerful in itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think being able to have a record of

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Speaker 2: what has been done is really cool. Even some of

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Speaker 2: the bookstores that I have full profiles of have closed

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Speaker 2: since my reporting, but it's like, this is a snapshot

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Speaker 2: of what was going on during this time. This is

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Speaker 2: what we were thinking, this is what we are doing.

378
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Speaker 2: And then having the list in the back I thought

379
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Speaker 2: was important to show the ones that are going on now,

380
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Speaker 2: like I called it, like more to explore, and then

381
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Speaker 2: the ones that have closed, the list of those to

382
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Speaker 2: say like we were here, we did this, this was

383
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Speaker 2: the project that all of these stores and all these

384
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Speaker 2: people were a part of.

385
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Speaker 3: And the way the internet is going.

386
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Speaker 2: Out, how they're just a racing stuff left and right,

387
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Speaker 2: Like we need something printed and tangible so we can

388
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Speaker 2: have that.

389
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Speaker 4: Yes, and this is such a great asset.

390
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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I know you've been you've been talking about

392
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Speaker 1: this throughout. But why do you think that it is

393
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Speaker 1: so important that we do keep this history? Why is

394
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: it Why are black bookstores in black libraries so important?

395
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Speaker 3: Yeah?

396
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: I mean, as I said, they hold our histories and

397
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: they deserve for their histories to be told. They've done

398
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 2: so much in each movement in the United States that

399
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Speaker 2: have involved black people, and they're still out here doing

400
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 2: a lot, a lot of work. Many of the booksellers

401
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: have printing presses where they're putting out information themselves. That

402
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 2: was something that I saw as a trend between like

403
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: the sixties and nineties that that was really important to people.

404
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 2: And I think that kind of is what pros is about,

405
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 2: like putting out your own story. I was very lucky

406
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: that people trusted me to tell this story, but I

407
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 2: do think it came about because of like who I am.

408
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: I'm a black bookseller, and I'm telling the story of

409
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Speaker 2: black booksellers. And I think it's important to tell your

410
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 2: own story and tell it as authentic as possible, and

411
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 2: like you said, like capturing the full breath of it,

412
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Speaker 2: like not just the pain, but also celebrating that joy

413
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Speaker 2: as well. I love that.

414
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Speaker 4: And just because we have to ask, I think we

415
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 4: talked about this a little last time. You were on

416
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 4: about the book writing process in general. How was that

417
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 4: for you? I know you weres a different because you

418
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 4: actually were able to be more interactive and traveling, but

419
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Speaker 4: that could also be more stressful in trying.

420
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Speaker 2: To do that.

421
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 4: I was the writing process for you?

422
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Speaker 3: Yeah?

423
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: I mean I have of course not written anything like

424
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: this before. It was a lot of research. I think

425
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: before my writing had been kind of like more source

426
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: person and I tried to keep myself as out of

427
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: it as possible. I like peek in a little bit

428
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,479
Speaker 2: at some point with booksellers that I got like super

429
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: close with, but that was different. And then also I

430
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 2: have contributors who are in the book, who wrote essays

431
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 2: and poems, and so that was a new experience of

432
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: being an editor while I'm being a writer too, and

433
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: kind of walking them through what I know will be

434
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: the end result because there isn't there hasn't been a

435
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: book like this before, so telling people like, yeah, I'm

436
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: doing anthology on black bookstores, and I kind of have

437
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 2: the vision in my head, but trying to get them

438
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 2: to the point where their piece will fit into that

439
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: seamlessly was a different experience. But I think it worked

440
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: out so well. I'm so happy with all the contributors.

441
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 2: They're so smart. I have such deep relationships to these bookstores.

442
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: We have people who are biographers of certain booksellers, people

443
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 2: who were managers past managers of the bookstores. So they

444
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 2: really have like these deep relationships, and I think it

445
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: shines through too.

446
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 4: No, you did an amazing job incorporating different styles into

447
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 4: one book. Like you're having an interview and you were

448
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 4: having an essay and you were having the poetry. I

449
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 4: was like, wow, and then you're doing the excerpts and

450
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 4: the pictures of like she's just trying to do it

451
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 4: all fitting all that in the one book, and kudos

452
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 4: it looks a I.

453
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: Was like, I'm going to be Lauren Hill, do my

454
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: do my big one on my first one and be out.

455
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 4: I have a feeling this is not going to be

456
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 4: the only one.

457
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: This is so good. That's that's what some people are saying.

458
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know.

459
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 4: Just just putting it out there. I'm just gonna you know,

460
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 4: that's my prediction, but I'm just gonna well.

461
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: I also love that so much too, because it does

462
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: go back to the you know, making it feel like

463
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: you're in a bookstore. Here's all these different types of

464
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: writing you can find. Yeah, it was just great because

465
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yes, I want to go I

466
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: maybe want to go read a bunch of books, like check.

467
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 3: Out a bunch of books or something bookstore.

468
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 4: Yes.

469
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

470
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: Even some of the contributors like they don't agree with

471
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 2: each other. And I like that too, because you go

472
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: into a bookstore, there's going to be a book that

473
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 2: says like this guy is orange, and it's gonna one

474
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: there's gonna be one that says the sky is blue,

475
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: and you get to read both and decide for yourself

476
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: what color is this guy. So there's different different opinions,

477
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: a diversity of thought throughout, and I think someone will

478
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: find something that really speaks to them throughout the book.

479
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: One of the like Nerdier points I latched onto because yes,

480
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: Samantha and I have gone through the book writing process,

481
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: is that there was a discussion about kind of the

482
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: whole ecosystem of books, about like the publisher, the owner,

483
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: the libraries, the authors, and how these all these pieces

484
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: work together are don't and how people view how it

485
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: should work or how it should look versus how it does.

486
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts about that?

487
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of the booksellers, I'd say, in

488
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: like the sixties, we're also doing publishing, and then I

489
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 2: think a little bit after that the book signing, kind

490
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: of author celebrity of it all came together. So it's

491
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: interesting to see the different ways it has evolved. So

492
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 2: I'm talking to a bookseller who had a store in

493
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: the sixties. I was like, Oh, what were your author events?

494
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: Like it's like author events. We didn't do that type

495
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 2: of stuff. We were selling books and publishing books. And

496
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: then I'm talking to someone in the nineties they're like, yeah,

497
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 2: Terry McMillan saved our store, you know, Waiting to Excel.

498
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: We sold a million copies of that.

499
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: It was great.

500
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: And so it's like kind of seeing those trends and

501
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: kind of seeing things that you might take for granted,

502
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: like oh, yeah, of course these bookstores are doing author

503
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: events multiple times a week, but like that hasn't always

504
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: been the case. Seeing the importance people put on publishing

505
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: your own work and like having a press and being

506
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: able to say what you want to say and not

507
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: having to deal with like the big publishing houses was

508
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: something that I saw that people saw to be important.

509
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: And now you know, people are like fighting against Amazon,

510
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: which hasn't always been the case in the bookselling world.

511
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,239
Speaker 2: And like now there's bookshop that's trying to you know,

512
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: help out with the indie booksellers and go.

513
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 3: Against Amazon too.

514
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: So it's a lot of moving parts and they're all

515
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: working together or against each other. But yeah, we touch

516
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: on all of that in pros. But yeah, it's like

517
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: a little like insider thing if you've been in the

518
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: book industry, You're like, oh, yeah, I know about that.

519
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 4: I love that You're gonna get the book world that

520
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 4: you never knew what existed exactly, the little beef that's

521
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 4: happening behind the scenes. You're like, well, I didn't think

522
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 4: about that. You forget about the fact that there was

523
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 4: like whole press like they were releasing their own books,

524
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 4: and like the level of independent authors who will trying

525
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 4: to just get their pamphlet out there or like the

526
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 4: novella's out there to make a point. So it's really

527
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 4: interesting to think on that, especially when you go through

528
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 4: the historical context of bookstores and publishing books and then

529
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: like fighting in civil rights eras and what that looks like,

530
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 4: and then what that looks like for today in the

531
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 4: midst of like literal attack on the black community, like

532
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 4: saying that black history should not exist because it makes

533
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 4: us sad. Like that's a whole different conversation. But the

534
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 4: importance of trying to support those businesses, And I know

535
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 4: this seems like an obvious question, but with everything outside

536
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 4: of just buying from these independent bookstores and supporting these bookstores,

537
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 4: what can we as those that would like to be

538
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 4: seen as allies, what can we do to make sure

539
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 4: that we are supporting these businesses if it's not just

540
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 4: by visiting them.

541
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one way that I say it would

542
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: be like the most sustainable is to make them a

543
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: part of your normal life. Like not just like, oh,

544
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: like this really popular books coming out out, buy it

545
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 2: from a black bookstore, which is great, But like I said,

546
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: they're doing these events every week. They have reading circles,

547
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: you know, they're bringing in authors, they're having writing salons.

548
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: So kind of making it a part of your life

549
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: in a way that fits naturally, so you don't feel like, oh,

550
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: I'm doing like this charitable thing, Like no, I'm getting

551
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: something out of it, the bookstores getting something out of it.

552
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: I'm really embedding into my community. I think is the

553
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: best way to do it. And even like going back

554
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: to like the book ecosystem. One thing that I thought

555
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: was interesting was even in the sixties, the big box

556
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: stores were stealing from the black bookstores. They would like

557
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: go in, write down what they had, and then there'd

558
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: be a display of flip black books there. So kind

559
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: of being cognizant of what these big box stores and

560
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: Amazon are doing because you kind of might think like, oh,

561
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: the big guys aren't even paying attention to the little guys.

562
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: But the little guys are you know, on the ground,

563
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: they know the community and can really curate. And then

564
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: you know, the big bohemos can just like take, take,

565
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: take and scale it to a way that makes it

566
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: so that the indis can't compete.

567
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: So, being like a little bit more.

568
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: Aware of how you're supporting people and their business practices.

569
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: Well, on top of that, is there something that as

570
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: you know you're closing this chapter of this book is

571
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: coming out, is there something that you're really hopeful for

572
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: in terms of black bookstores and or trends that you're

573
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: hoping will come about.

574
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I hope black bookstores. I would like

575
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: to see them on every corner. They're a lot in

576
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: the book, but when you like travel around, you know,

577
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: they're kind of few and far between, and I think

578
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: they should be there, should be more, They should be supported.

579
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: And I would love to see someone you know, write

580
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: another book about black bookstores and include the onest weren't included,

581
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: and like continue this work of celebrating the black bookstore

582
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: as an institution and you know, highlighting what we've done

583
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: in the community.

584
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 3: That would be something that I think is really nice.

585
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. And for you yourself, do you have any

586
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: projects on the horizon that you're excited about.

587
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: Well, I am about to go on tour, so that

588
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: is my next project.

589
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: Kicking it off.

590
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: In Atlanta at the Georgia Center for the Book on

591
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: the eighth, So maybe i'll see you all there.

592
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 4: All right, I'm rinning it down the eighth of April.

593
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: Eighth of April, Georgia Center for the Book, seven pm. Yeah,

594
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: and I'll be in around the city. I'll be in Washington,

595
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: d C. Philadelphia, and New York, so focusing on that

596
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: and then we'll see what happens from there.

597
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: Yes, so well you might want to take a break

598
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: after that, but that sounds amazing.

599
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: I see a break in my future. Yes, with you.

600
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 4: Being Yeah, you and your mom working like booksellers yourself.

601
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 4: What did your mom say about this book? I need

602
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 4: to know as she read it.

603
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's read it. She got to see it early.

604
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: And because like when I was writing it, I would

605
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: just like go to the library, I would like write

606
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: it longhand and like a notebook and people are just

607
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: like what are you doing? Like You're always not like, yeah,

608
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: doing something like super secret, and then she saw it.

609
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, this is what you've been doing. Like

610
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: this is so nice. And I don't know if y'all notice,

611
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: but like in some parts of the book you'll see

612
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: like handwriting that's actually my mom's handwriting. So yeah, I

613
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: love her handwriting. So I was like, let me get

614
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: you to write these pull quotes and the dedication. So

615
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: having a little piece of her in there too, it

616
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: has been fun. But yeah, she loves it. She's so excited.

617
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: She was like, you did it. I'm so proud of you,

618
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: Like this is big. It's big, Katie.

619
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm not gonna lie. Having her being

620
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 4: a part of that book, it just makes me so

621
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 4: emotional for you. That's amazing. And I love that, like

622
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 4: the bond between you and that you have that in

623
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 4: your first book as like a memento for both of you.

624
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 3: That's beautiful.

625
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, well, Thank you so much Katie for

626
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: joining us today, for coming back on. We would love

627
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: to have you anytime. Congrats again about the book. Where

628
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: can the good listeners find you?

629
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: They can find you on Instagram. I'm at good books

630
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: ATL on Instagram, and if you want to keep up

631
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 2: with the book. It's prostothpeople dot com.

632
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: Yes, and it comes out April eighth, correct.

633
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: April eighth. There is a pre order incentive and you

634
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: get a cute little lapel pin that mimics the book,

635
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: but you got to get it in before April eighth.

636
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: Okay, I love, I love a good incentive. Well, thank you,

637
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much, Katie and listeners go

638
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: check out the book.

639
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: It is amazing. Thank you, And if you would like

640
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 3: to contact us, you can.

641
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at stuffwenevertold you dot com.

642
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff

643
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: podcast or Instagram and TikTok and stuff we Never told you.

644
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have tea public store, and

645
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get

646
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina

647
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: and executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey. Thank you,

648
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told you

649
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: the production my Heart Radio. For more podcast from my

650
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app

651
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite ship