1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeartRadio. And how the tech 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: are you? It's time for another tech Stuff classic. This 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: time we are concluding a discussion that we started last 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Friday with tech Stuff Goes Transmitter Hunting Part two. Joe 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: McCormick joined me for this episode Joe as a host 8 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: of Stuff to Blow your Mind, and we had a 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: discussion about transmitter hunting that I hope you will find enjoyable. 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: Take it away past Jonathan and Joe. So we need 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: to move into more of a discussion about radio specifically, 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: because even though radio is a subset of electromagnetic radiation, 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: it covers an enormous range of frequencies and therefore. 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: And not all frequencies behave the same on Earth. 15 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: True. 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've got different bands you might have You've 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 2: seen terms like HF or VHF, FEU HF. These are 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: specific subbands of frequencies on the electromagnetic spectrum, all what 19 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: we would call radio frequencies. But so yeah, you've got 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 2: like high frequency, very high frequency, and a lot of 21 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: what we're going to be talking about today is going 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: to be in the VHF part of the spectrum. 23 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that very high frequency. So yeah, this radio spectrum 24 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: is pretty broad and it goes well beyond the types 25 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: of radio that the typical person can listen into, unless 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: you happen to be one of those folks who you know, 27 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: maybe you operate a maritime radio to help with navigation, 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: in which case you are using frequencies most of us 29 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: don't touch. But or maybe you are a doctor working 30 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: with experimental medical imaging equipment, in which case you're using 31 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: radio frequencies on the opposite end of the spectrum, because 32 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: maritime radio uses very low frequency radio waves, whereas medical 33 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: imaging uses extremely high frequency radio waves. So the range 34 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: goes from the bottom is that like three herts, which 35 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: means you get three waves passing a given point in 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: a second, all the way up to tremendously high frequency, 37 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 1: which is three thousand gigaherts or three trillion hurts, meaning 38 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: three trillion waves pass a given point within a second. Actually, 39 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: I like extremely low frequency more because the acronym is 40 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: elf so elves. Elves communicate kind of like ense very 41 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: long wave forms. The elves at the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, 42 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: that's where we've stuck them. So again, you know, we 43 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: talked about how all these waves are traveling at the 44 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 1: speed of light, so it's really just the number of 45 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: waves that pass a given point in a second that 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: tells you a frequency, not speed of transmission, because that's 47 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: going to remain the same no matter what. So a 48 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: three hurts frequent and see wave will tell you that 49 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: the wavelength for that particular wave has to be a 50 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand kilometers in length. That's a long radio wave, 51 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand kilometers. Meanwhile, and the opposite end of 52 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: the spectrum, if you go all the way to that 53 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: three thousand gigahertz wave, you're talking about one hundred micrometers 54 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: in length. So teeny tiny micrometers are very tiny, huge 55 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: difference obviously in the length of these waves. So that's 56 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: why you know, the whole frequency wavelength relationship is important. 57 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: So we use the different frequencies for very specific purposes. 58 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: It's also important to point out that this is not universal. 59 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: There are usually some sort of governing body within a 60 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: country that designates what frequencies can be used for what purposes. 61 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: In the US we have the FCC. So if you're 62 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: looking at the terror hertz side of things, that's that 63 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: ultra ultra high or terribly high frequency as is some 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: sometimes referred to. It's for medical imaging, that kind of stuff, 65 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: also molecular dynamics measurements, and other high tech information. The 66 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: extremely low frequency would be like radio communication with submarines. 67 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: Can't You can't use very high frequency when communicating with 68 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: stuff that's underwater. The waves attenue are the radio waves 69 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: get attenuated by the ocean water, and that creates problems 70 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: with communication, But it's less of a problem with extremely 71 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: low frequency and very long wavelength radio transmissions. 72 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: Now, what about the kind of radio we think of 73 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: as standard radio, as in radio accessible to the average 74 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: consumer AM FM. That kind of stuff, so AM would 75 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: be in the medium frequency. Medium frequency ranges from three 76 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: hundred killer hertz to three thousand kill herts or three 77 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: megaherts if you prefer AM radio specifically in the United 78 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: States is in an even more narrow range than that, right, 79 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: that's all of medium frequency AM radio in the US 80 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: goes from five hundred third five killer hurts to one thousand, 81 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: seven hundred killer hurts or one point seven mega hurts. 82 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: If you wanted to talk about short wave radio, that's 83 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: from five point nine mega hurts to twenty six point 84 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: one mega hurts. 85 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: CB goes to twenty six point ninety six mega hurts 86 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: to twenty seven point four one mega hurts, and so 87 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: on and so forth. 88 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: So so FM radio is going to be that's mega hurts, right, 89 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: So it's going to be around around one hundred mega. 90 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: Hurts, yes, exactly. So yeah, because power ninety nine, that 91 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: would be at ninety nine mega hurts right, ninety nine 92 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: point one I think originally maybe. 93 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: Starts high eighties, I think, yeah, and. 94 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: Goes up to like one oh seven I think somewhere 95 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: around there. So different countries have allocated their broad broadcast 96 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: spectrum in different ways, so not everyone follows those exact 97 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: same rules. There's usually some overlap. Now, when you know 98 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: something about the wavelength of the radio frequency, that tells 99 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: you what you need, how you need to build your 100 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: antenna right, Because the length of your antenna is dependent 101 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: upon the frequencies you're looking for. You want your antenna 102 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: to be the right length to resonate properly with the 103 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: radio frequencies you're searching for. There's no such thing as 104 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: really a perfect universal antenna that can equally pick up 105 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: all frequencies across the radio range. Now, you might wonder, 106 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: how can you have like a pocket AM radio, because 107 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: if AM radio is broadcasting in the medium frequency and 108 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: has pretty long radio waves, and you need to have 109 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: an antenna that is the right length to pick that up. 110 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: Typically we're talking about half the length of the wavelength 111 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: of the radio frequency you're looking at right, So if 112 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: you're talking about like a wavelength that's one hundred meters long, 113 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,679 Speaker 1: then you're looking at a radio antenna that's between forty 114 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: and fifty meters. How the heck do you fit that 115 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: on like that? That seems ridiculous. Well, the antenna for 116 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: AM radios are typical wire that are and that wire 117 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: is wrapped around the core. Because it doesn't matter if 118 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: the wire's straight or not straight or whatever, you can 119 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: you can coil it inside a device and have it 120 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: completely housed within the radio. So if you were to 121 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: open up an AM radio, chances are you'd find a 122 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: wire where one end is not attached to anything and 123 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: it's just wrapped around around around around around a core 124 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: of some sort. That's the antenna. It's it's not like 125 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: it's providing any sort of electrical stimulation apart from convert 126 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, pulling in radio waves and having that induce 127 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: an electric current. So that's why AM radios don't necessarily 128 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: have a visible, incredibly long antenna. And this is important 129 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: when it comes to things like transmitter hunting. 130 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, because if you look at transmitter hunting sites and 131 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 2: we'll get into the specifics of the sport here in 132 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: a minute, you see a lot of jargon that obviously 133 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: has to do with stuff about like antenna length and 134 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: frequencies and stuff like that. One of the common things 135 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: you'll see is like the idea of a two meter hunt. Yes, 136 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: the two meter arena is often considered the sweet spot 137 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: for transmitter hunting. Now what does that mean When a 138 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: HAM radio enthusiast talks about two meters. 139 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: They're telling you specifically about the size of the antenna 140 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: that they are using. To two meters is a pretty 141 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: decent sized antenna, right, like you know, a meter's like 142 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: here in the United States, we don't necessarily think in 143 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: terms of meters that frequently because we're not on the 144 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: metric system. But yeah, that's the reason is because the 145 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: frequencies that are being used by ham radio enthusiasts are 146 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: falling in the VHF radio frequency band, that very high frequency. Now, 147 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: that frequency band goes from thirty mega hurts to three 148 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: hundred megaherts, and the radio wavelengths go from ten meters 149 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: down to one meter. And we're using descending sizes because 150 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: remember as frequency increases, the wavelength decreases, right, So if 151 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: you're if you're hunting for a radio signal that's somewhere 152 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: in that that four to five meter range, you need 153 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: a two meter antenna in order to pick them up 154 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: effectively to have it be particularly sensitive to those transmissions. Now, 155 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: the specific range within VHF designated for amateur radio use 156 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: is in the United States one hundred and forty four 157 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: megahurts tow one hundred and forty eight megahertz. It's a 158 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: little different in Europe where it's one forty four to 159 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: one forty six. 160 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 2: So stingy with it over there and not quite as 161 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: wide a range. Give us our two megaherts come on, yeah. 162 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: And well, to be fair though, it's not the only 163 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: band for amateur radio. Amateur radio actually has bands and 164 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: several different frequency ranges. It's just for the VHF frequency range. 165 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: It's this specific UH range of frequencies from eight in 166 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: the US one forty four to one forty six in Europe. 167 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: But you can also find amateur radio frequency bands in low, medium, 168 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: and high frequency as well as all the way up 169 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: to like terribly fast, terribly high frequency. You can find 170 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: them up there too. Now, because of the wavelengths involved, 171 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: that two meter antenna is best able to pick up 172 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: those transmissions because it resonates more readily with transmissions in 173 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: that frequency. Yeah, like it can pick up stuff outside 174 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: of it, but not as effectively as the stuff it 175 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: was designed for. It's that's the sweet spot. So you 176 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: can build your own if you wanted to. There are 177 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: a lot of different resources, both online and in libraries 178 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: that will teach you how to build an antenna. I 179 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: watched one that actually was so cool that I think 180 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: I might do it as a project here at how 181 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: stuff works and do a video about it. What kind 182 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: of antenna was it would be? It would be a 183 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: quad antenna. I'll talk about a little bit a little 184 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: bit later. 185 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: Mostly guys, now, I've been thinking about trying to build 186 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: a yacky antenna. 187 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that would be great, both of them. 188 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 2: As some of the Hams pronounce it, yaggy yaggy. 189 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that project would be really kind 190 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: of fun. And also I like the way a quad 191 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: antenna can look. I'll talk more about that in a 192 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: little bit. 193 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: Anyway, Well, well, I challenge you to an antenna built off. 194 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: That sounds great. Yeah, let's do it. Totally do it. 195 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: To be fair, it's way easier to do it now 196 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: than it was in the old hobbyist days, where you 197 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: had to do all the calculations by hand. Now there 198 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: are so many online tools that will allow you to 199 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: just plug in what you're an attempting to do, and 200 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: they'll tell you exactly how long each element. 201 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: I've been to exactly one of these calculators. I found 202 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: one online that says like, Okay, here's the frequency I 203 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: want to look for, here's the decibel gain I want. Yeah, 204 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: and then it'll tell you the relative size of your 205 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: of your elements for your antenna. 206 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, if you are a transmitter hunter, chances are 207 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: you have multiple antenna or as I put, a veritable 208 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: array of antenna, oh, perhaps a literal arrayna's, depending upon 209 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: what you're depending upon how much money and time you 210 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: have to put into the hobby. 211 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: Uh. 212 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: But then we also have another element that you put 213 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: in our notes. Yeah, they're a question. Yeah. 214 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: So sometimes you'll hear or you'll read about people in 215 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 2: the transmitter hunting community talking about harmonics. Yeah, you know, 216 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: so they'll say, maybe, oh, I got very close to 217 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: the transmitter and I was I was overwhelmed. 218 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: What could I do? 219 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 2: You know, I suddenly I couldn't isolate the direction of 220 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: the signal anymore. And somebody else might say, well, try 221 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: looking for the third harmonic. I love that because it 222 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: sounds very cryptic and in the know. 223 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds a little Star Trek esque in a way. 224 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: So harmonics are integer multiples of the fundamental frequency, which 225 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: is a fancy way of saying you start with whatever 226 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: frequency you're looking for, because generally speaking, transmitter hunters there's 227 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: a specific frequency that they know they are searching for, 228 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: Otherwise it would be needle in a haystack. Right. Plus 229 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: they're limited anyway by the range that amateur operators are 230 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: allowed to use. So you start with whatever the target 231 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: frequency is and you multiply it by integers in order 232 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: to get the harmonics. So the first harmonic is the 233 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: fundamental frequency, because you just multiply by one, got it. So, 234 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: third harmonic you multiply by three. Fifth harmonic you multiply 235 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: by five. Both of those are particularly useful in transmitter hunting. 236 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: So the typical frequency you'd be hunting for is one 237 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: forty six point five six y five mega hurts. Now, 238 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: if you want to find the third harmonic, you multiply 239 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: that number by three. That gives you four hundred thirty 240 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: nine points six ninety five megahurts. The fifth harmonic you 241 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: multiply by five. That gives you seven hundred and thirty 242 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: two point eight two five megahertz. Now, each of those 243 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: harmonics has a weaker signal than the fundamental frequency. 244 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 2: But it would be related to the fundamental. 245 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: Three related to it. But it is a weaker signal. Now, 246 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: if you're when you get close to one of these transmitters, 247 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: chances are the signal strength is such that you are 248 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: it's hard for you to get any useful information. 249 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like, say you might if you have a 250 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: directional antenna, which we'll talk about in a minute. Yeah, 251 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: you might be sweeping it all around and you're just 252 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: maxing out your receiver no matter what direction you pointed in, right, because. 253 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: The signal it's not like you're right on top of 254 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: the transmitter, but you're close enough where the directionality is 255 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: no longer useful. It's kind of like you can hear 256 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: someone yelling off in the distance and you're blindfolded, so 257 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: you know generally what direction they're in, but as you 258 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: get really close and they're yelling and it's an echoe area, 259 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: you can't really tell where the noise is coming from necessarily. 260 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of like that as an analogy. So if 261 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: you're able to switch to one of these harmonics because 262 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: it's a weaker signal, you can get a little more 263 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: precise with that directionality. You can use it. If you 264 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: have an antenna that can switch to one of these signals, 265 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: or you have an antenna specifically made to detect those harmonics, 266 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: then you are able to switch to a weaker signal 267 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: which is not going to overwhelm your antenna so quickly, 268 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: and you can hone in on the direction a little 269 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: more precisely than you would if you had to rely 270 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: on your chief two meter antenna. 271 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: Right. 272 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's why harmonics are important. Uh, and we'll 273 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the Yaggi antennas in 274 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: a second. Yagi antenna more formally is the yagi Uda antenna, 275 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: which sounds like it should be a Star Wars character, right, 276 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: yagi Uda? Oh you seek yagy udah. Yeah, it's a 277 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: directional antenna that looks kind of like one of those 278 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: old TV antennas, like the old aerols that you would 279 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: see on top of houses, typically in the movie like 280 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. 281 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it has it has one long boom in the 282 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: middle as well. Yeah, to a central pole on which 283 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: are mounted parallel elements. And these elements are what does 284 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: the shaping and receiving of the signal or transmitting. You 285 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: can have a transmitter or receiver. 286 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, antenna they're meant to be both transmitters and receivers, right. 287 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: Typically the antenna that I use and most people use, 288 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: I would imagine are simply used as receivers, except when 289 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: you get into things like phones and stuff. Obviously, any 290 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: phone type device has both a transmitter and receiver. Otherwise 291 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: it's just a radio, so not terribly useful if you 292 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: want to make a call, not that anyone does anymore, 293 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: but I digress. 294 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 2: Well, anyway, we'll talk about the specific centementute. But the 295 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: point of these parallel elements on the Agie antenna is 296 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: to create this directional effect. Yes, where a signal is 297 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: detected if you are pointing right at it, but it 298 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: is killed if you are pointing perpendicular to it right right. 299 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: So the idea being that if you turn to your 300 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: right and the signal suddenly drops out, you know that 301 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: the the direction to the right is not the way 302 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: to go. You start turning to the left and you 303 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: find where the signal drops out, you can eliminate that. 304 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: It narrows down the range where the transmission can actually originate. 305 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: And since transmitter hunting is all about finding that transmitter, 306 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: that's important. And we're going to talk more about transmitter 307 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: hunting and really dive into the hobby and the sport 308 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: in just a moment, But first let's take another quick 309 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: break to thank our sponsor. All Right, we're back, and Joe, 310 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: I want you to tell me more about this sport 311 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: of transmitter hunting, a sport I did not know existed 312 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: until you brought this topic to my attention. 313 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I at some point want to try this. 314 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: I've never done it myself, but I've been reading about 315 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: it over the past couple months, and I've watched a 316 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: few videos of people trying it out on YouTube and 317 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: it looks very interesting. So the sport is known as 318 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: transmitter hunting, also t hunting or fox hunting, and a 319 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: standard game goes like this. You got one participant who 320 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 2: is the hider. This is sort of the dungeon master 321 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: of the fox hunt. Gotcha, and the hider puts together 322 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: a radio transmitter appropriate for the scale of the hunt. 323 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: So you might use a small handheld transmitter stashed inside 324 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: an old ammunition can for a small scale hunt on 325 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: foot or in a small several mile area with cars. 326 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: And in this scenario, you would set the transmitter to 327 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 2: repeat a signal at steady intervals, so it might be like. 328 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: Bpity beep beep beep, bpit beep, beep beep, gotcha. 329 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: And then you'd hide it somewhere, maybe in a public 330 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 2: park or another a reasonably small search area. For large 331 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: scale hunts, you could actually build a powerful antenna capable 332 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 2: of transmitting miles and miles across state lines. There are 333 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 2: people who do this in you know, these long all 334 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 2: day car hunts. Where they're going a really long way 335 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: to try to find a transmitter somewhere out in the 336 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: desert or something. It looks like a lot of fun 337 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 2: and you use it. You hunt it using cars or 338 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: maybe fan boats. Wow, you know, so. 339 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: You can you can do this in the Everglades. I 340 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: would That's just the way I would like to do it. Yeah, 341 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: I just all I can imagine is now we talked 342 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: earlier about possibly making a movie. This movie would now 343 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: have to star Burt Reynolds. 344 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: But if you are hiding a transmitter, there are some 345 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: social and safety concerns you probably want to keep in mind. 346 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: Makes sense. 347 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: Imagine, for example, you are out at a public park 348 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: with your children and you see some creepy loaner with 349 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: an antenna attached to their van pull up beside the 350 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: park and then put a bunch of electronics inside an 351 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 2: ammunition can and hide it in the bushes next to 352 00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 2: the sandbox. 353 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: I would say that that would raise at least one, 354 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: possibly two red flags. 355 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: Right, So you probably first of all, need to be 356 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 2: careful where you hide your transmitters. You need to if 357 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: it's you know, in a place where you would need permission, 358 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 2: get permission first. In any case, if you're doing transmitter hunting, 359 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: I've heard that it is a good idea to notify 360 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: the police ahead of time that there are going to 361 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: be people running around with antenna's and that you're going 362 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: to be hiding a thing and let the police know 363 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: where you're hiding it so that it doesn't get mistaken 364 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 2: for a bomb or some other nefarious device. Yeah, it 365 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: also looks like it's a good idea to put some 366 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: writing on the device warning people that it's not dangerous. 367 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: Right, although honestly you wouldn't believe it. Yeah, I mean, 368 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: I like if I were if I were the type 369 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: to make a device that was intended to be harmful 370 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: to people, I can't imagine that I would have the 371 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: ethics to avoid writing this totally will not harm you. 372 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: It's like, I'm pretty sure a box of hot pocket 373 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: says this is not. 374 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: Dangerous on it. Yeah, I mean it, but it was 375 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: trust them, but definitely go to that extra effort. Yeah, 376 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: we were talking offline about this before we came in 377 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: here to record the episode, and the world is a 378 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: very different place than what it was when. Uh. Transmitter 379 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: hunting was really one of those hobbies that that people 380 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: could essentially go anywhere and play. No one really noticed 381 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: because they didn't even It was just be beneath the 382 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: public consciousness. Joe found a book and lent it to 383 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: me that I got to read, and in it they 384 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: describe a situation where one person who was hiding a 385 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: transmitter didn't have the time to actually do it himself, 386 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: and so entrusted the transmitter to two other people who said, oh, yeah, 387 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: we'll totally hide it where you told us, and instead 388 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: they went and hit it under an overpass. And I 389 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: thought those days are over. You would get into so 390 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: much trouble now because you. 391 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 2: Rememberary prank back then now freaks people out. 392 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, you remember the Moononites. Those are characters from Aquitine 393 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: Hunger Force, where they Cartoon Network had done this promotional 394 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: stunt where they put very simple led displays of the 395 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,239 Speaker 1: Moononites over certain bridges and it freaked people out. They 396 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: thought perhaps it was like a weird warning about an 397 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: explosive that had been attached to said overpasses. Turned out, 398 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: of course, no, it was just a promotional stunt, but 399 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: no one knew that at the time, and in the 400 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: world that we live in today, it's probably better to 401 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: take those extra precautions and to let whatever authority oversees 402 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: the area that you're planting the transmitter in to know 403 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: about it ahead of time, get approval, that kind of thing, 404 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: and take these extra steps to make sure you don't 405 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: inside a panic. 406 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: By the way, you mentioned this book, and I just 407 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 2: wanted to throw out the name of it, sure, because 408 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 2: I was looking at this too. 409 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: It's a book I order. 410 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 2: Called Transmitter Hunting Radio Direction find being simplified. It's from 411 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 2: the late nineteen eighties and it is a radio hobbyist 412 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 2: manual by Joseph Moell and Thomas in Curly. 413 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: An exhaustive hobbyist manual. 414 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: Well, they've got a lot of projects and stuff back 415 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: then for building different antenna types, but also just sort 416 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: of an overview of what the sport looks like, you know, 417 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 2: when people practice it. Sure, so when you get into 418 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: a transmitter hunt, you've got the transmitter hidden somewhere, yeah, 419 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 2: and you've got some boundaries established, and then the players. 420 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: Are set loose. 421 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: They're like the dogs on a fox hunt, which I 422 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 2: assume is where the name comes from and not some 423 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: other counterintuitive naming scheme. But they know what to listen for, 424 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: so they've got the frequency established, they know what the 425 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: signal is, but they've got to somehow find the physical 426 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: location of the transmitter. 427 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: Yep. 428 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: Now, once you think you have isolated the direction from 429 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: which a signal is coming, and in just a second, 430 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 2: we'll talk about ways you could do that, some different 431 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: equipment you could have. Typically you'll have some kind of 432 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 2: antenna or device that gets you a bearing, so you've 433 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 2: got a line to where you think the signal is 434 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 2: coming from, and then from there there are a couple 435 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 2: of primary ways you can hunt. One is the simple way, 436 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: which is just chasing the bearing. Even this is not 437 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 2: as simple as it sounds. 438 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: Idea is that you found you've found a direction, and 439 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 1: you're like, okay, well the transmission is coming from the southeast, 440 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: so let's just get in the car and travel as 441 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: close to southeast as we possibly can for a while, 442 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: and then we'll jump out and check again. 443 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you just follow it and then keep checking 444 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: the signal. The other way would be what's known as triangulation. 445 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: And so there imagine you would need a map. 446 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: For this, Yes, an actual physical paper map would probably. 447 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: You're going to make marks on as accurate distances and measurements. 448 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 2: So you get a bearing from one known location. You 449 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 2: know where you are, You mark your location on the 450 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 2: map and then you get a bearing. So you draw 451 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 2: a line on the map, saying, okay, it's coming from 452 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: this direction. Then you go to another place on the 453 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 2: map and you mark your location there and you get 454 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,959 Speaker 2: a bearing again. You say, okay, it's coming from this direction. 455 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 2: Draw another line. Then you go to a third place, 456 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 2: get a bearing again, and maybe do that another time. So, 457 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: if everything is working correctly, those three or more lines 458 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: should begin to intersect right the location of the transmitter. 459 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: There should be a convergence around the general area. Now, 460 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: it may be because of geography and buildings and such 461 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: that the signal you're picking up is a reflected signal 462 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: and not really indicative of the actual source of transmission. 463 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: Right Like, let's say that the source of the transmission 464 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: is off by a few degrees from where you get 465 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: your bearing because of this reflection. Well, as you do 466 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: your triangulation, you might notice that that this intersection is 467 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: a little weird, like, not all the it's not like 468 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: all the lines are converging on a single point. It 469 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: might be that they create a trapezoid of possible, and 470 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: then the idea is that, all right, well, now we're 471 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: going to need to get further closer to that trapezoid 472 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: because we know that the transmitter is most likely within 473 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: that area somewhere, but we have to narrow it down 474 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: from there. 475 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 2: Either way you go, if you're just homing in on 476 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: a bearing or if you're trying to do triangulation, it's 477 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 2: not as easy as it sounds, because, as you alluded to, 478 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: the propagation of radio waves can be affected by all 479 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 2: kinds of stuff, many variables like terrain, presence of water, 480 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 2: reflective obstacles like fences, power lines, or even concrete buildings. 481 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: So a hill can block your line of sight to 482 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 2: a transmitter. Yeah, so the hill, a hill can be 483 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 2: in the way. You might jump out of. 484 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: Your vehicle and you're trying to pick up the signal 485 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: and you can't pick up anything or whatever. You pay 486 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: so a week that you can't really get a reading 487 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: on where it's coming from, and instead of freaking out, 488 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: it just may mean that you have to travel a 489 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: little bit further to get the hill out of the way. 490 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 2: Also, apparently, sometimes water and shorelines can change the apparent 491 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: direction from which a signal is coming. So if the 492 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 2: signals coming at you over water and then there's a shoreline, 493 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 2: it can sort of shear the direction of it. There 494 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 2: are some obviously, things like metal fences, power lines, buildings 495 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 2: can create these reflective surfaces that will bounce the signal around. 496 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 2: Some environments, like cities are absolutely jammed with radio reflective objects. 497 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: So if you're in a city, the very buildings around 498 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 2: you are just like bouncing the signal back and forth 499 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 2: like a pinball, and this can create what's known as 500 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 2: a multipath environment. So multipath is going to be one 501 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 2: of the biggest problems to overcome if you are looking 502 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 2: for a hidden transmitter, especially in a city or other 503 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: area crowded with reflective obstacles, and it just means that 504 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 2: you're getting the signal, you're tracking from multiple different directions, 505 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 2: and you've got to have some experience and knowledge of 506 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 2: how exactly to work around problems like that. Yeah, so 507 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 2: a good hunter needs to have experience and skill, but 508 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: they also are going to need, not necessarily need, but 509 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 2: it really helps to have some specialized equipment, including special 510 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 2: antennas and receivers. 511 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: Now, as the authors of that book, Joe mentioned point 512 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: out multiple times, and experienced and skillful hunter can use 513 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: seemingly inferior equipment and still produce a better result than 514 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: someone who has lots of money and has dropped it 515 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: on a bunch of high tech equipment but has little 516 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: to no experience actually using set equipment. So there is 517 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: a lot of art to this. It's not just science. 518 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: There's a bit where you know, knowing kind of having 519 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: an intuition about how radio waves work and the geography 520 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: that you are in, and kind of getting an idea 521 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: of how that could be affecting what you are receiving. 522 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: It might be way more helpful than just a high 523 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: tech antenna that is the costs a lot of money. 524 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have read the authors of this book say, 525 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 2: and it does seem true to me based also on 526 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 2: other things I've read that one of the most important 527 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 2: pieces of equipment in a transmitter hunt is a map. Yes, 528 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: it's having a good map, especially like a topographical map 529 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: that includes surface features and buildings. 530 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: And they also say that, you know, it can become 531 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: incredibly challenging because the game doesn't necessarily confine itself to 532 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: the area of any given map, so you might need 533 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: multiple maps and that also becomes a bit of a 534 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: challenge because unless the maps are both produced at the 535 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: same scale, you can't just overlay them, you know, and 536 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: tape them together or whatever it may be. That it 537 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: requires a lot of math on your part. Yeah, so 538 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: that's a strike against it for me. Well, let's do 539 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: a real brief overview of some of the main types 540 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: of antennas you might encounter absolutely transmit on. So we've 541 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: mentioned by name several times the yagi or yaggy antenna yep. 542 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: So this is a directional antenna. There are a couple 543 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: major kinds of directional antennas, but a directional antenna, as 544 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: we've said, it is designed to isolate the directionality of 545 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: the signals. So if you point it at a right 546 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: angle to the signal, you shouldn't be getting much of anything. 547 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: Right if you point it in the opposite direction, most 548 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: of them should say you know nothing or not much. 549 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: But if you finally find the direction of the signal, 550 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: the strength of the signal that comes through the antenna 551 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: two year receiver should spike yes, and so a yaggi 552 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: antenna is made of a series of metal elements arranged 553 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: in parallel. So if you're trying to picture this, think 554 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: of one long pole could be like a broom handle 555 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: or PBC pipe or whatever. And then there are metal 556 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: rods or wires of very lengths, and the lengths are 557 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: very specific and very important, yes, and they are determined 558 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: by the frequency of the signal that you're looking for. 559 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: The relationship of the links of the various elements are 560 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: very important, depending upon what their job is. Yeah. 561 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 2: So there is the most important elements. The main one 562 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: is the driven element, and this is the electrically active part. 563 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: This is the one that connects to the wires that 564 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 2: go down to your receiver handheld radio receiver. This is 565 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,959 Speaker 2: what is resonating with that frequency. But then there are 566 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: these other elements that are known as the parasitic elements, 567 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 2: and they're not connected to the receiver, but they're there 568 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: to manipulate the types of waves that the driven element receives. 569 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what gives these directional antenna their directionality. Yeah. 570 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,479 Speaker 2: So there's a reflector element that goes behind the driven element. 571 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 2: So if you're pointing at the signal source, the reflector 572 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: element should be closer to you and behind the driven one, 573 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 2: and it reflects the signal back and focuses the reception 574 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: field to the direction that the antenna's pointing. And then 575 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: there may be multiple director elements, which are more elements 576 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: in parallel ahead of the active element to help manipulate 577 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: the shape of the wave forms and enforce directionality. 578 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: So if you're looking at these different elements, first of all, 579 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: if you're trying to envision this in your head, imagine 580 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: that broomstick, all right, the broomstick you are holding out 581 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: from yourself. These elements are perpendicular to the broomstat stick, 582 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: but parallel with each other, right, So at the closest 583 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: end to you, you have this reflector element. It's going 584 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: to be the largest of those elements. Then you have 585 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: the just slightly not just slightly and not by a 586 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: whole lot, and it sort of is acting kind of 587 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: like the dish in a satellite dish antenna sort of 588 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: in that same style. So it's it's slightly larger than 589 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: the driven element. That's the one that you were you know, 590 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: is actually hooked up to the sensor so that it's 591 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: pulling in the signal. And then at the far end 592 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: you have the director elements. These are the shortest of 593 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: the elements. And again it's not dramatically shorter, it's just 594 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: a little shorter. All of the size sizes of these 595 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: depend upon the frequency you're searching for. I mean, if 596 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: you want to build a yagi for a very specific purpose, 597 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: you would look at the frequency you're looking for, and 598 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: there's a mathematical formula you use that gives you the 599 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: ideal driven element size, reflector elements size, and director element sizes, 600 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: And it's essentially you take a number and you divide. 601 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: Also also their distance from each other. That is also Yeah, 602 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: the spacing is also important. The spacing between these elements 603 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: is very important. You can't just put them anywhere along 604 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: that broomstick. You need to have them spaced out properly. 605 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: So both of the those things are very important in 606 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: order for you to get an antenna that is going 607 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: to resonate properly with the frequency you want and therefore 608 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: help you narrow down its direction. Yeah. 609 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 2: So then there's another very popular form of directional antenna 610 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 2: that is accomplishes the same goal but with a different 611 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: type of construction, and that's the quad antenna. 612 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. They're also typically used to detect frequencies in the 613 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: high frequency or very high frequency ranges. So they consist 614 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: of the driven element and the direction and a reflective 615 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: element or directive elements, I should say, just like the 616 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: yagi is, but they're arranged in a slightly different way. 617 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: They use loops of wire, these loops that are not 618 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: necessarily in a circle, They just need to be closed off. 619 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: So the example I saw was a cubicle two element 620 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: quad antenna, and actually it's technically a three element, but 621 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: because you've got the driven you've got the reflector, and 622 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: the the direction one the directive element. I liked it 623 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: because it kind of looks like a tie fighter. 624 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they look like tie fighter wings the loops do. 625 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now that's just the cubicle version. There are other 626 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: variants of the quad antenna. These are these are slightly 627 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 1: different look, I mean, a very different look from the yagis. 628 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: They have a very sensitive directionality to them, and they 629 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: also tend to have a slightly higher gain than Yaggi's 630 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: by about two decibels. Decibel is a sliding scale, by 631 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: the way, it's a logarithmic scale, right, not so two 632 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: decibels on its own means nothing. You need to have 633 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: another point of reference for you to understand what. 634 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 2: To decibles, but if you've got a weak signal and 635 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: you need to amplify it, that could be important. 636 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, So quad antennas are a popular way of trying 637 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: to track down a signal, especially if you need a 638 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: little bit more sensitivity than you would with a yagi. 639 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: So both of these are popular. They also come in 640 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: different sizes. I mean, obviously it depends upon what frequencies 641 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: you're looking for. The quad antenna is interesting because the 642 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: length of the loop is dependent upon the frequency you're 643 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: you're searching for. So the squares in the tie fighter, 644 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: like the wing size of the tie fighter, are dependent 645 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: upon that frequency. And the reflector is actually going to 646 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: be slightly larger than the other ones. So I was 647 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: watching a video on how to make this, and that's 648 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: when I said, I kind of want to make one 649 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: of these. And you know, the mobile ones are slightly 650 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: smaller than the ones you might mount at your house 651 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: if you happen to live out in the country and 652 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: you can have a forty meter tall antenna in your backyard. 653 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: But they are and it definitely doesn't look like something 654 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: that's easy to carry around. I mean, they're not, they're 655 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: not small. A lot of people who are serious about 656 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: this hobby they have. 657 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 2: They have mounts attached to their cars. 658 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so you'll see vans with the things attached 659 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: or jeeps that kind of thing, with these things attached 660 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: to the vehicles themselves mounted on them, and they're not 661 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: meant to be taken off. So that's another popular one. 662 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: Another one is the Doppler direction finder. 663 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 2: Now this is going to be somewhat different than the 664 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 2: directional antennas. It still ultimately establishes directionality, but it makes 665 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 2: use of the eponymous Doppler effect. 666 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: Yes, named after a Christian Doppler who was known for 667 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: running down the hallways going e I got Dylan laughing 668 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: on that one. Who's just so absurd that Dylan Stern laughing. 669 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: It's rare that I get our producer to laugh at something, 670 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: but that was one of them. No. So, Doppler was 671 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: a nineteenth century physicist, apparently in my world, a slightly 672 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: absurd one, and he came up with the equations to 673 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: describe the apparent frequency shifts we perceive that happened from 674 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: the relative motion of us center of a signal and 675 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: the receiver of a signal or a wave. Now you've 676 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 1: heard me talk about this before you probably experienced it. 677 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: The easiest way to give an example is with sound waves. 678 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: So if you've ever noticed a siren on an approaching 679 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: emergency vehicle being much higher pitched than it is when 680 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: it passes you, So it's coming at you, it's a 681 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: higher pitch noise, it passes you, it's a lower pitch noise. 682 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: Or if you happen to be next to it and 683 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: the two of you are either motionless or you're moving 684 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: at the same speed in the same direction, it may 685 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 1: sound like a pitch that's somewhere in between. That's because 686 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: of the Doppler shift. When the vehicles moving towards you, 687 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: it is effectively compressing those sound waves. So it's increasing 688 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: the frequency, which we perceive as an increase in making 689 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: the pitch go up. When it's moving away from you, 690 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: it's elongating those sound waves, and so our perception of 691 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: that is that it's a lower frequency and the pitch 692 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: goes down. Same sort of thing is true with electro 693 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: magnetic radiation. Actually it's also true with light I mean, 694 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: which technically is part of electromagnetic radiation, but it's not 695 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: radio waves. The same thing is true for all of 696 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 1: these things. Yeah, so you shift exactly. Yeah, it's how 697 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: we measure how fast we're moving away from or toward 698 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: other galaxies, for example. So using a very special type 699 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 1: of antenna you can take advantage of this property of physics. 700 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: So Toppler direction finders typically have several rotating elements and 701 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: it's usually between three and eight vertically oriented antenna. The 702 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: antenna pick up these signals that then are sent to 703 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 1: a processor that determines where is the signal really coming from? 704 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: The incoming signal, where is that coming from? And typically 705 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: there's like a circular display that it's just a circle 706 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: of led lights is the simplest version, and whatever direction 707 00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: the signal appears to be coming from with respect to 708 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: the the front of your vehicle, a light will pop up. 709 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: So it's not telling you that, oh, you need to 710 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: go northeast. It'll tell you, oh, the signals coming this 711 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: many degrees to your right, or this many degrees to 712 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: your left, or it's actually coming from behind you. That 713 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: kind of thing. So if you were driving due west 714 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: and the signal at the three o'clock position or the 715 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: light at the three o'clock position on your little circular 716 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: display lights up, that would tell you that the signal 717 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: is actually coming from the north. Yeah, because to your 718 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: right would be true north if you're going due west. 719 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,720 Speaker 1: So you look at this signal the circle of lights, 720 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: and whichever one is lit up, that's telling you, all right, well, 721 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: we need to start changing our bearing toward that direction 722 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: if we want to head in the direction of the 723 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: transmission itself. 724 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 2: Now, another type of direction finder that you could use 725 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 2: would be something that's known as a time difference of 726 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 2: arrival antennas. Yeah, and this is another interesting thing. So 727 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 2: it has multiple receips elements arranged in a pattern that 728 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 2: passed the signal along to an electronic or computational core 729 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 2: that compares the time delay between when the different elements 730 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 2: received the same signal pattern. 731 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: Now this is crazy because remember these signals travel at 732 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: the speed of light, so the differences are not detectable 733 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: by humans, right, Like, there's no way that we humans 734 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: would be able to tell the difference. 735 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 2: And this is obviously easier if you have, you know, 736 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 2: something where there are multiple elements that are very. 737 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: Far away from each other. 738 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,839 Speaker 2: Absolutely installations, sure, sure, but yeah, so you can use 739 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 2: time difference of arrival. Since we know the speed of 740 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 2: radio transmission is constant. We know exactly what the speed is, 741 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 2: and we know the difference between the different elements. We 742 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 2: can use the time delay between when they receive the 743 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 2: signal to calculate the direction the signals coming from. 744 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: All right, So we've talked a lot about antennas and 745 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 1: we've we've mentioned receiver quite a few times. Now. Some 746 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: people listening maybe thinking that what you're doing is you 747 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: got a pair of cans on your ears and you're 748 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: listening really carefully for the beaty beeps. But as it 749 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: turns out, most of the time, we're actually talking about 750 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: a piece of equipment that indicates when it's receiving a 751 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: signal and giving you an idea of how strong that 752 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: signal is. Let's talk about that for a second. 753 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 2: Well, so it is going to be a receiver, radio receiver, 754 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 2: a radio receiver you might be familiar with, but the 755 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 2: most useful ones obviously are going to be ones that 756 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 2: are equipped with what's known as an S meter. So 757 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 2: you've got your antenna and you've got a wire running 758 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 2: from your antenna to the receiver or wires running from 759 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 2: the antenna to the receiver, and the receiver should be 760 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 2: able to translate the signal into something you can make 761 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 2: sense of. That might be sounds, or that might be 762 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 2: a number, and in the case of an S meter, 763 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,240 Speaker 2: it would be a number. It's a gauge that gives 764 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 2: you a direct reading in a numerical value of the 765 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 2: strength of the signal. So you're not just relying on 766 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,839 Speaker 2: you know, subjective impressions from listening or some other method, right, 767 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 2: so you just find the direction where the number on 768 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 2: the S meter is the highest. 769 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: This makes it a lot easier, and the signal strength 770 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: is going to increase the closer you get to the transmitter. 771 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: There's actually a very specific amount where you can sit 772 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: there and say, like, all right, I look to see 773 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,879 Speaker 1: when the strength of the signal has doubled. That gives 774 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: me an idea of how much closer I am to 775 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 1: the transmitter. But using you know, describing that requires lots 776 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: of calculations and variables that I don't really have the 777 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,439 Speaker 1: time to go into right now, But just general rule 778 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: of thumb, you know, you look at that signal strength, 779 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: and that gives you an idea of how much closer 780 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: you are to the transmitter without actually giving you any 781 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: sort of units, Like it doesn't tell you, oh, it's 782 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: a mile away, or it's a thousand yards away or 783 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: anything like that. It just tells you, oh, you have 784 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: halved the distance between you and the transmitter. Whether that 785 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: distance was ten miles or one mile, who's to say. 786 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: It all depends upon the strength of the transmitter. 787 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 2: So yeah, so you mentioned when you get close. Another 788 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 2: important factor is going to be that most of your 789 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 2: equipment is going to be attuned to weak signals. Yeah, 790 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,240 Speaker 2: you want to be able to detect a signal coming 791 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:29,720 Speaker 2: from a long distance. 792 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: Right, But when you get close to something that is, 793 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: you know you is no longer a weak signal, it 794 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: can overpower your equipment. 795 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 2: Right, So you might suddenly you've got your receiver and 796 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 2: you've got your directional antenna and you can point it 797 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 2: around in a circle, and no matter what direction you 798 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,920 Speaker 2: pointed in, your s meter is maxed out, right. 799 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: Because you're just you're just too close. It's it's it's like, 800 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, the water is completely around you. So detecting 801 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,879 Speaker 1: where the water is coming from is not easy to do, right. 802 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 2: So in this case, another piece of equipment that some 803 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 2: people might have that would make a big difference would 804 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 2: be known as an attenuator and so yeah, in this case, 805 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 2: an attenuators and electronic element that can help you knock 806 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 2: down the power of the signals, sort of the opposite 807 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,359 Speaker 2: of an amplifier yeap, and so that your equipment can 808 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 2: tell which direction the signals strongest and not just be 809 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,239 Speaker 2: maxing out at the top of the s meter. 810 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,399 Speaker 1: Right. This is also when the harmonics can come into play. 811 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: Exactly if you can switch to the third harmonic or 812 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: the fifth harmonic, then you're using weaker signals and it 813 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: is less likely to overwhelm your equipment. 814 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 2: Now we've been talking about, you know, antenna types and 815 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 2: stuff like that. If you are a HAM hobbyist and 816 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 2: you want to build something or you want to spend 817 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 2: some money and order something on the internet, you can 818 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 2: have these interesting setups that will give you a big advantage. 819 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 2: But some of these hams will talk about how you 820 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 2: don't actually have to have something like that to do 821 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,880 Speaker 2: ham hunting. No ham hunting, transmitter hunting. 822 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 1: You are the hand I've hunted ham before. 823 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,319 Speaker 2: Ham The most dangerous game it was there was There 824 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 2: was this time where I spent with a bunch of 825 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 2: my school friends on an island hunted HAM. 826 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 1: I don't like to talk about it, though it didn't 827 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: turn out well to serve Ham. 828 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 2: But one example of an interesting hack for crude tea hunting. 829 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 2: If you don't have a directional antenna, but you just 830 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 2: got a standard receiver a handy talkie, you know, is 831 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 2: this thing that I read about called body blocking or 832 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 2: body fading, which doesn't involve tackling somebody. No, but this 833 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 2: is a really interesting idea. So let's say you've just 834 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 2: got a little handy talking The antenna on this thing 835 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,840 Speaker 2: is omni directional, right, like a standard radio antenna, It directs, 836 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 2: it listens to all directions equally, right, So if you're. 837 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: Picking up a signal, you can't tell where it's coming from. Hell, 838 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: just you just know that you are within range of 839 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: that signal. 840 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 2: But here's what you can do. You take your regular 841 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 2: omni directional antenna and press it tied up again your chest, 842 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 2: hug it to your body. Now, stand in place and 843 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,720 Speaker 2: rotate your body slowly. You should find, actually that your 844 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 2: reception will be fine in most directions, but that it 845 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:17,319 Speaker 2: will deteriorate when your back is facing one direction. And 846 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 2: that's because you're suddenly that's the direction where you're putting 847 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 2: your body directly between the transmitter and your receiver. 848 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,760 Speaker 1: So it's called body blocking because you are physically blocking 849 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,839 Speaker 1: the signal from getting to the radio effectively. 850 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of the opposite of a directional antenna here, 851 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 2: because you instead of saying go to where the signal 852 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 2: is strongest, you find the direction where you are most 853 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 2: able to block the antenna from receiving the signal, and 854 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 2: then you know that your butt is facing the transmitter. 855 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, as is always the case with me. Yeah, I 856 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: like this idea. I like the idea of actually holding 857 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: a competition that only allows for that sort of tan. 858 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: It's been her hunting. I think it could be really interesting. 859 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,880 Speaker 1: It would also be really interesting to see it from afar, 860 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 1: like be able to see at least three or four 861 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: Like you're just seeing these people turn around very slowly, 862 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: stop and then immediately do a one eighty and start 863 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:14,879 Speaker 1: running in that. 864 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 2: Direction, passionately embracing their little handy talkies. 865 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. When walking. Yeah, and again, like before you brought 866 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: this topic up to me, I had never I'm not 867 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: a ham radio operator. I've never gotten into amateur radio. 868 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,920 Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating, but I've never it's just not 869 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: that's never been a world that I've explored, so I 870 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: didn't even know that this was a thing when you 871 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,600 Speaker 1: brought this up, and learning about it, I'm like, you know, 872 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,279 Speaker 1: this is it does appeal to me because just as 873 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,840 Speaker 1: geo cashing and letter boxing and those other forms of 874 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: of kind of using technology to help hunt down something. 875 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 1: It's kind of cool because that, you know, it does 876 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,480 Speaker 1: had that relationship between technology and skill, and that that 877 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: desire for us to uncover secrets. I mean, I think 878 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: that's something that's kind of innate in humans, right. Yeah, 879 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 1: this desire to the scavenger hunt is a very powerful 880 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: thing because it's just it's fun to go through that 881 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:13,359 Speaker 1: experience and to uncover mysteries and stuff. That concludes the 882 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: two part episode series about Transmitter of Hunting. I hope 883 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: you enjoyed that conversation from twenty seventeen. This episode originally 884 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: published March fifteenth, twenty seventeen. And uh yeah, I gotta 885 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: get Joe back on the show sometime. It's been a 886 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 1: while since I've had a chat with him. Hope you 887 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 1: all are doing well and I'll talk to you again 888 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more 889 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,360 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or 890 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.