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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today, we're excited to bring you the next installment

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Speaker 1: of our John Fuschante interview series. John first came on

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Speaker 1: the podcast back in April for the release of Unlimited Love.

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Speaker 1: Then he was back a few weeks ago to pick

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Speaker 1: up where they left off discussing Chili Pepper history one

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Speaker 1: album at a time. This is part two of that

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Speaker 1: conversation and it's shaping up to be a little bit

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Speaker 1: different this time around. Instead of talking Chili Pepper history,

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Speaker 1: John picks up his guitar to walk Rick through his

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Speaker 1: pre show warm up. He also demonstrates how he came

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Speaker 1: up with a now classic major to minor chord changes

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Speaker 1: on Under the Bridge. They of course talk Return of

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Speaker 1: the Dream Canteen, their second number one album in six months,

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Speaker 1: and they also discussed how John was able to overcome

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Speaker 1: his desire to impress others with his guitar plane while

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Speaker 1: recording Stadium Arcadium. This is broken record line of notes

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Speaker 1: for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchell, here's Rick Rubin

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Speaker 1: and John Fuschante from Shangola. So there's a new Chili

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Speaker 1: Pepper album that just came out. Yeah, second one in

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Speaker 1: a year, Yeah, a second one. Six months. We really

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Speaker 1: think of them as kind of two halves of the

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Speaker 1: same thing, because we recorded them all at the same time.

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Speaker 1: And I think the second ones probably like the more eccentric,

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Speaker 1: kind of strange one, if I had to generalize. But

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Speaker 1: I was looking at a list the other day that

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Speaker 1: I've made when we were trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: songs are going to make it on, you know, and

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Speaker 1: what songs aren't, And I had a list like, songs

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Speaker 1: that feel like to me, like my image of the

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Speaker 1: second album, you know, and songs that sound like what

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Speaker 1: I'm picturing the first album feeling like. And while most

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Speaker 1: of those songs were on the album that they were on,

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Speaker 1: there were songs that were the second album Vibe that

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Speaker 1: we wound up putting on the first album, and first

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Speaker 1: album five that we wound up putting on the second album.

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Speaker 1: So to me, they seem pretty balanced between the two things.

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Speaker 1: But but I think the new one goes to further extremes,

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Speaker 1: both in like heaviness and in softness and in like

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Speaker 1: weirdness and all that. And the first some of my

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Speaker 1: favorites were on the second one, but I like songs

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Speaker 1: on both. Yeah, that was really the problem was was

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Speaker 1: like seventeen songs just born enough to satisfy any of us,

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Speaker 1: like like, and some of your favorite ones didn't even

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Speaker 1: make it on the second one, and those were those

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Speaker 1: were some of your very favorite ones. Yeah, so it

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Speaker 1: was really it was really hard to like to satisfy everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know. So so it seemed essential to us to

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Speaker 1: at least have have the two records. Yeah, because the

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Speaker 1: making is similar, it's same, it's they were all record

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Yeah, it's hard to talk about

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Speaker 1: and interviews when they're the when they were made at

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Speaker 1: the same time. But as it turns out, the second

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Speaker 1: one has a to me, has a sort of a

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Speaker 1: few feeling in the sound that it could have been

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Speaker 1: recorded at a completely separate time, Like it has a

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Speaker 1: to me, it has a spirit of brightness and fun,

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Speaker 1: where Unlimited Love has kind of a darkness and a seriousness.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of the tunes that stood out

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Speaker 1: to us as being like important sounding songs were some

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Speaker 1: of the darker, more serious ones, and some of the

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Speaker 1: ones that we felt more comfortable We're saving have like

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Speaker 1: a light vibe that's not absent of meaning or anything,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, more playful. Yeah, I see the second one

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Speaker 1: is I hear it as being a brighter vibe and

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Speaker 1: a more fun vibe. I remember I was classifying songs

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Speaker 1: as like I did. Think I just said pop, funk, art.

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Speaker 1: I think I just made it as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: And there was the most of pop, there was, the

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Speaker 1: middle of was funk, and the smallest amount was art.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and I just think we even the distributed them.

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Speaker 1: But I think we got better at the mixing process

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Speaker 1: as time went by, and that sort of gave the

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Speaker 1: second record to me, like production wise, sound wise, it's

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Speaker 1: it's got a distinct sound to it. I would also

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Speaker 1: say that if anyone liked the first album, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: like the second album. It's like the same diary entry,

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Speaker 1: you know that. That however long two years of writing.

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Speaker 1: You guys are writing for about two years. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: we wrote for nine months, only nine months, amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then the recording I think for like fifty tracks

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Speaker 1: we did, we did the basic traction three weeks of

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Speaker 1: everything we did pre production though in the studio before

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Speaker 1: we started right recording for real, right, yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: about a month of that. Yeah, yeah, because then by

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Speaker 1: the time we did the real recording, it was more

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Speaker 1: focused on just getting the performance. We weren't working, we

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Speaker 1: weren't really working on the songs. It was just more

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Speaker 1: of the feel in the performance. Yeah, it's true, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's historically the way we've we've always done it.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, usually when we're recording, we kind of

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Speaker 1: know what we're doing by then. Yeah, it was it

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Speaker 1: was different in that we were for me and that

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Speaker 1: we were in a studio, even though we were just

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Speaker 1: basically there to work out arrangements with you, Like usually

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Speaker 1: you would have been in the rehearsal studio with us,

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Speaker 1: and instead we were here at Changer Law. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: How did you decide to release the second album so

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Speaker 1: soon after the first album? Well, I think our our

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Speaker 1: original idea just wasn't possible. I at Anthony and Fully

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Speaker 1: really wanted to just release a giant album. It would

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Speaker 1: have been like a four everything, four records set and

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Speaker 1: to double CD, and they were really big on that idea,

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Speaker 1: and it just turned out that wasn't going to be

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Speaker 1: possible mixing wise, we didn't have enough time to get

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Speaker 1: an album out before the tour was scheduled. In order

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Speaker 1: to do that, not to mention the record company wasn't

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Speaker 1: crazy about that idea. It seemed like a pretty wild

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Speaker 1: thing to do, but I think they liked the idea

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Speaker 1: just because nobody does that. So the second best idea,

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Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure Anthony even wanted. When he found

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Speaker 1: out we couldn't do that, he was like, well, could

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Speaker 1: we have any other album come out two months later?

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Speaker 1: It was a big Basically as soon as possible was

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Speaker 1: the yeah idea. So six months wound up being the

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Speaker 1: reasonable thing and the possible thing because mixing wise, we

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Speaker 1: needed that extra six months. Oh, let's talk about the covers.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about this, but I know that

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Speaker 1: the cover of the first album is one kind of

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Speaker 1: image and the cover of the second album is a

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Speaker 1: very different kind of image. Yeah, and I felt like

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Speaker 1: that wound up being good at wound up reflecting the

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Speaker 1: musical difference that I feel in the two albums as well,

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Speaker 1: and kind kind of a heavy thing. Yeah. The first

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Speaker 1: cover came from Anthony had an idea that the asterisk

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Speaker 1: with a black background would be the basic idea in

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Speaker 1: some kind of neon light. But what he was getting

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Speaker 1: from the record company wasn't fulfilling his vision, and so

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Speaker 1: he passed it on to Marcy, my wife, and they

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Speaker 1: started talking about it and we started taking these references.

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Speaker 1: There's this Christian church that you see from the freeway

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Speaker 1: going into Hollywood from the valley. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: big sort of neon sign, and that wound up being

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Speaker 1: kind of the basis. Then we Marcy got to help

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Speaker 1: some help from somebody she knows, designing what the sign

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Speaker 1: would look like, and then it got passed on to

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Speaker 1: some other people who actually built the sign to be photographed.

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Speaker 1: Then we had people to move the sign somewhere where

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Speaker 1: it would be good to to shoot it. That might

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Speaker 1: have been the top of the Roosevelt Hotel. So there's

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Speaker 1: a physical there is a physical object exactly. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that was the first that was the first cover,

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Speaker 1: and then the one we had done a video with

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Speaker 1: these animators that Marcy knows, these French animators Tammy and Julian,

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Speaker 1: who did a video for poster Child and a song

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Speaker 1: from the first record, and they didn't have much time

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Speaker 1: to do it. It winds up looping at a certain point.

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Speaker 1: It was because releasing two records and so quickly like

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Speaker 1: this in succession, we've had to rush through several stages

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Speaker 1: of the process, and I feel like we came up

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Speaker 1: with good things under the pressure, but it was it's

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Speaker 1: been hard. Like it's just now that this record is out,

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Speaker 1: like starting to feel like lightning up, even though we've

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Speaker 1: just got off five months of tour. But that whole time,

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Speaker 1: there's been constant stuff going on other than is preparing

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Speaker 1: the second Yeah, and her and Anthony had actually had

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Speaker 1: the same idea independently of each other. Used the animators

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Speaker 1: to make a cover that has a lot of different

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Speaker 1: images and that's colorful, and that our main reference. We

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Speaker 1: were thinking of covers like Funkadelic Cosmic Slop cover, but

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Speaker 1: there's several covers that I can think of, ones we

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Speaker 1: weren't even using but that I think have been in

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Speaker 1: that same category. Like Frank Zapp and the Mothers of

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Speaker 1: Invention had an album called One Size Fits All. It's

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Speaker 1: got like a couch and it's got a cigar, and

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Speaker 1: it's got you know, some outer space themes, like just

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Speaker 1: these kind of cartoon like covers, and so yeah, it

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Speaker 1: seemed like that idea fit in really well with what

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Speaker 1: the vibe had turned out to be of the second album,

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Speaker 1: kind of more colorful, so they put that together and

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Speaker 1: we actually made two covers. There's one for the indie

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Speaker 1: record stores that there's a limited amount of, and then

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Speaker 1: there's the cover for the normal cover, and those are

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Speaker 1: two completely different covers. How do you think about sequencing

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Speaker 1: an album? Yes, I think of it on a lot

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Speaker 1: of levels. Like it was. That's why we had to

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Speaker 1: do the voting that we did, was just because like

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Speaker 1: we'd recorded like forty eight songs that we had finished

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Speaker 1: vocals too, and I knew that at the most, you know,

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Speaker 1: only like thirty four we're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: be released on two you know, double record sets. So

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Speaker 1: that was really hard when you don't even know what

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Speaker 1: songs the two albums are going to consist of, you know.

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Speaker 1: But for sequencing an album, I have certain things like

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Speaker 1: the first song has to sound like a first song,

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Speaker 1: the last song has to sound like a last song,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the middle of the album should feel

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Speaker 1: like the middle of the you know, the it should

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Speaker 1: feel like it's gradually revealing something. And it's always worked

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Speaker 1: out working in collaboration with you and with the other

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Speaker 1: guys that like, some of my favorite songs have gone

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Speaker 1: towards the end of albums, even though we do try

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Speaker 1: to stick some of the best songs in the front.

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Speaker 1: Like I always feel like the end of an album

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Speaker 1: should really be delivering things that you didn't expect from

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Speaker 1: the whole rest of the album. There it should still

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Speaker 1: be revealing itself on the fourth side. When you think

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Speaker 1: of it in vinyl, when you think of it as

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Speaker 1: four sides, it's not the end of the you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's the end of the album, but it's the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the last part. Because of the experience of the vinyl. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: vinyl changes everything. Yeah, I always thought of you know,

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Speaker 1: growing up with vinyl, I always thought of albums as

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Speaker 1: two sides, and you know, there's the first side has

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Speaker 1: an ending, and then the second side starts, and then

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Speaker 1: that has an ending. And in streaming, it's not like that.

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Speaker 1: It's just one lie album. Yeah, And it's just different.

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Speaker 1: It's just a different way of thinking about it. And

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Speaker 1: but the way most people digest it now is the

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Speaker 1: streaming way. But there is something to the art of

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Speaker 1: the sequence based on the vinyl. There's like a tried

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Speaker 1: and true feeling about that. Most of the things that

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Speaker 1: I stream that I originally heard on vinyl I don't

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Speaker 1: mind that there's not a sidebreak, you know, from the

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Speaker 1: A side to the B side of the album, but

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Speaker 1: there's still things that help you sequence the digital version

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Speaker 1: about vinyl, like the halfway point, Like the end of

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Speaker 1: the second side is usually the end of the halfway point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so it's cool if the album sort of feels

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Speaker 1: like it restarts halfway through. It's a good effect for

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Speaker 1: the last song on the second side to feel like

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Speaker 1: an ending and for the first song on the third

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Speaker 1: side to feel like a beginning. And if it's a

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Speaker 1: CD or a digital download version that you still sort

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Speaker 1: of get that by the album just seems to rejuvenate

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Speaker 1: itself about halfway through. Yeah. It's interesting for artists who've

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Speaker 1: never worked on vinyl, they probably have a whole different

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Speaker 1: relationship to a sequence. And I imagine some of them

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Speaker 1: who really grew up on playlists don't even think of

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Speaker 1: a sequence as anything. It's just a bunch of songs

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Speaker 1: because you can kind of make your own you know,

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Speaker 1: you can make your own version of it in any

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Speaker 1: way you want. But there is some magic to it.

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Speaker 1: When you hear songs in a certain order, you relate

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Speaker 1: to them in a different way, and sometimes you know,

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Speaker 1: the wrong song in gives you an impression of an

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Speaker 1: album them that doesn't start you off on the right

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Speaker 1: foot or the opposite. You can hear, you can hear

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Speaker 1: a great song, then if you don't like the second song,

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Speaker 1: then it's like a feeling of like, oh, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: just one song that I like of this band. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's the first thought that I would have if if

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Speaker 1: I love the first song, then I don't like the

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Speaker 1: second song. That's there's already a red flag of like

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Speaker 1: I might not listen as open mindedly to the third song. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: after not liking the second song. Yeah. Interesting. Just the

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Speaker 1: psychology of the order of songs. How does that relate

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Speaker 1: to doing it live? How does sequencing work live? And

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Speaker 1: is there ever does it ever not work? Like do

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Speaker 1: you ever decide on an order to play the songs

250
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Speaker 1: and then you do it and it just doesn't feel right.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's a big difference in our band is

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Speaker 1: because live, Anthony's always been completely in control of the

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Speaker 1: set list. The rest of us might make comments. He

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Speaker 1: might even show it to me before we get the

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Speaker 1: copies printed out, just to get approval or some thing,

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Speaker 1: but we pretty much let him be the master of

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Speaker 1: the set list, and that's just always been how it's been.

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Speaker 1: Whereas when we're making a record it's more collaborative. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of impossible for a large group of people to

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Speaker 1: make a sequence because it kind of requires still more

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Speaker 1: person A lot of my memories of doing it, like

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Speaker 1: in the old days of me and you would would

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Speaker 1: drive around and you would have me in control of

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Speaker 1: the CD player going from this song this end. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: feeling what works? Is the transition work? Does the feeling work? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's so many things to keep on your mind. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's a real multi level thing. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: end of one song has to sound good going into

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Speaker 1: the beginning of another. You might make a set list

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Speaker 1: that on paper seems like it would work really well,

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Speaker 1: and then as soon as you hear it, it's like

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Speaker 1: none of these transitions are making any sense you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's an interesting thing about Anthony too, And it makes

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Speaker 1: sense because of everyone's job. Because he's relying on his voice,

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Speaker 1: there's probably a pacing that makes it able for him

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Speaker 1: to get through a show that no one else has

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Speaker 1: that same consideration. Yeah, I'm just thinking there's so many

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Speaker 1: new songs to play. There's seventeen new songs that is

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Speaker 1: new to the audience, there are the seventeen songs that

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Speaker 1: the audience has heard six months ago, and then there's

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Speaker 1: the forty years of music that the Chili Meppers have made. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how do you keep a balance of playing things that

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Speaker 1: people are you know, expecting to hear and all the

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Speaker 1: things you want to play? And how are new songs

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Speaker 1: received compared to old songs live? How does that all work?

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Speaker 1: I think compared to other bands who have a history

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Speaker 1: like we have, the new songs get a really good response,

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Speaker 1: but especially Black Summer, Like I can't always tell because

289
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Speaker 1: in my in ears, I don't have the audience super

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Speaker 1: loud like like they might be might be a large

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Speaker 1: percentage audience plotting, And just because of where the mics

292
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Speaker 1: are that I get the audience from, I might not

293
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Speaker 1: even hear it, you know. I take the inn ears

294
00:16:17,196 --> 00:16:20,916
Speaker 1: out and it's always like much more deafening screaming and

295
00:16:20,996 --> 00:16:23,876
Speaker 1: stuff than than I can hear. But yeah, the new

296
00:16:23,916 --> 00:16:27,276
Speaker 1: songs go over good. But like there's there's certain songs

297
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Speaker 1: off Unlimited Love that I really wish we were playing

298
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Speaker 1: that just were some of the more challenging ones to

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Speaker 1: do when we were rehearsing, and we never took the

300
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Speaker 1: risk to play them live. And there's other ones that

301
00:16:38,756 --> 00:16:41,396
Speaker 1: we did take the risk to play live and only

302
00:16:41,396 --> 00:16:43,916
Speaker 1: played them a couple of times and then gave up,

303
00:16:44,276 --> 00:16:47,116
Speaker 1: sticking to the ones that were working better. You're not

304
00:16:47,156 --> 00:16:50,436
Speaker 1: worried about mistakes live in front of people. I'm actually

305
00:16:50,436 --> 00:16:52,596
Speaker 1: way more worried about mistakes when I'm in the studio

306
00:16:52,996 --> 00:16:56,996
Speaker 1: or even when I'm rehearsing live. You're not super worried

307
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Speaker 1: about mistakes. And at the same time, the feeling of

308
00:16:59,716 --> 00:17:03,436
Speaker 1: a song not working is fine when you're at rehearsal

309
00:17:03,476 --> 00:17:06,516
Speaker 1: because you know it's it's leading somewhere and you're everybody's

310
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Speaker 1: figuring at Flice figuring this thing out, Chad's figuring that

311
00:17:09,196 --> 00:17:12,316
Speaker 1: thing out. I'm figuring out another. But to have that

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00:17:12,396 --> 00:17:15,956
Speaker 1: experience live when the four elements aren't functioning as a

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Speaker 1: single unit, it really stands out in a show and

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Speaker 1: it makes you feel really crappy to be up there

315
00:17:22,636 --> 00:17:25,116
Speaker 1: when they're not aligne when you're playing them next to

316
00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:28,996
Speaker 1: these songs like Californication or other Side that you have

317
00:17:29,116 --> 00:17:30,836
Speaker 1: played a lot, and you can really have fun with

318
00:17:31,036 --> 00:17:36,156
Speaker 1: and everything's always locked together no matter what. So that's

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Speaker 1: why it's good we have this week of rehearsal coming up,

320
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Speaker 1: so we can start. We can work on things that

321
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Speaker 1: we were not feeling up for taking the risk to play,

322
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Speaker 1: but try to get them together from Unlimited Love and

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Speaker 1: Return of the Dream Canteen and better and luckily we

324
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Speaker 1: have a lot of hits. I guess that's what helps

325
00:17:56,556 --> 00:17:58,836
Speaker 1: at this point is that you tend to want to

326
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Speaker 1: mainly make it about playing the hits when you're playing

327
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Speaker 1: the fifty thousand people a night and stuff. But the

328
00:18:05,316 --> 00:18:09,476
Speaker 1: new songs are definitely accepted, and Black Summer gets pretty

329
00:18:09,516 --> 00:18:14,076
Speaker 1: much equal response to any of the hits we've had before.

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Speaker 1: So people who were there often common to me after

331
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Speaker 1: the show, like, Wow, people are cheering for your new

332
00:18:21,316 --> 00:18:23,876
Speaker 1: songs just as much as the old ones, And so

333
00:18:23,956 --> 00:18:26,396
Speaker 1: I can't always tell, but but I have got that

334
00:18:26,556 --> 00:18:30,476
Speaker 1: gotten that feedback from people. Cool. Yeah, did you play

335
00:18:30,516 --> 00:18:35,036
Speaker 1: songs from the new album on the five month tour? No,

336
00:18:35,476 --> 00:18:39,716
Speaker 1: we just started playing our first song from from Return

337
00:18:39,796 --> 00:18:43,716
Speaker 1: of the Dream Canteen. We just started playing it just

338
00:18:43,756 --> 00:18:47,156
Speaker 1: a few shows ago. We've played it like three times, Eddie,

339
00:18:47,516 --> 00:18:51,356
Speaker 1: but we rehearsed those a lot when we were rehearsing

340
00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:55,076
Speaker 1: before the tour started, But after five months of being

341
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Speaker 1: on tour and not playing those songs, it just felt

342
00:18:58,756 --> 00:19:01,076
Speaker 1: too risky to start playing them. We wanted to start

343
00:19:01,156 --> 00:19:05,356
Speaker 1: playing them when the album was announced, but it just

344
00:19:05,516 --> 00:19:07,596
Speaker 1: and when the first single came out and stuff, but

345
00:19:07,796 --> 00:19:09,516
Speaker 1: it just felt like we would have been and taking

346
00:19:09,516 --> 00:19:12,116
Speaker 1: too big of a risk for the energy flow. We

347
00:19:12,276 --> 00:19:13,996
Speaker 1: just need to be as good as it could be. Yeah,

348
00:19:14,036 --> 00:19:16,876
Speaker 1: we want we want them to sound good. So it

349
00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:18,676
Speaker 1: won't take us a lot of rehearsing to get them

350
00:19:18,716 --> 00:19:21,236
Speaker 1: back under our fingers. But we're going to take like

351
00:19:21,276 --> 00:19:24,716
Speaker 1: a week before we go on tour again. Great makes sense,

352
00:19:24,796 --> 00:19:28,836
Speaker 1: Just again the volume of material. There's so many songs. Yeah,

353
00:19:29,036 --> 00:19:32,516
Speaker 1: it's hard to keep everything straight. It's impossible. Yeah, and

354
00:19:32,636 --> 00:19:35,556
Speaker 1: just live, You've got to find your voice. When I'm

355
00:19:35,556 --> 00:19:40,116
Speaker 1: singing harmonies on the record, that could be like twenty voices,

356
00:19:40,316 --> 00:19:42,356
Speaker 1: and then I've got to do it live in one voice.

357
00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:45,276
Speaker 1: You've got to figure out, Okay, what's which one do

358
00:19:45,356 --> 00:19:46,996
Speaker 1: I do at this chorus? Which one do I do

359
00:19:47,076 --> 00:19:49,436
Speaker 1: at the second choruse you know, you try what kind

360
00:19:49,476 --> 00:19:51,076
Speaker 1: of voice do I sing and then maybe it's not.

361
00:19:51,236 --> 00:19:53,716
Speaker 1: Maybe it's completely dissimilar voice to what I did on

362
00:19:53,756 --> 00:19:57,036
Speaker 1: the record at all, just to make it make it

363
00:19:57,076 --> 00:20:00,676
Speaker 1: work in the live context. So are there other things

364
00:20:00,716 --> 00:20:04,076
Speaker 1: like that? Tell me about things that can happen on

365
00:20:04,156 --> 00:20:07,676
Speaker 1: record that have to be rethought to be able to

366
00:20:07,716 --> 00:20:11,596
Speaker 1: do it live. I guess for me, multiple guitar parts

367
00:20:11,676 --> 00:20:14,596
Speaker 1: is often a thing. It's not usually too hard for

368
00:20:14,636 --> 00:20:18,276
Speaker 1: me to figure out, but that's always something to consider,

369
00:20:18,476 --> 00:20:23,036
Speaker 1: whether to duplicate the effects. Sometimes it's better live to

370
00:20:23,156 --> 00:20:25,876
Speaker 1: just not have any effects. And maybe on the record

371
00:20:25,916 --> 00:20:29,276
Speaker 1: I did some modular synth treatment to the guitar that

372
00:20:29,796 --> 00:20:31,916
Speaker 1: worked really well for the recording but might not be

373
00:20:32,036 --> 00:20:34,876
Speaker 1: necessary for live, Like it might not even be able

374
00:20:34,916 --> 00:20:36,916
Speaker 1: to hear it through the nature of a big sound

375
00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:41,636
Speaker 1: system outside. Yeah, it's like it's much it's louder, but

376
00:20:41,716 --> 00:20:45,116
Speaker 1: it's lower resolution, I think, Yeah, and there's a lot

377
00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:48,316
Speaker 1: more natural ambience, so things. Yeah, you know, on the

378
00:20:48,356 --> 00:20:51,476
Speaker 1: record we're doing all kinds of fancy reverbs and things,

379
00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:54,996
Speaker 1: and on the guitar and certain drum hits and little

380
00:20:54,996 --> 00:20:57,636
Speaker 1: things like that. Like live, we've got so much natural

381
00:20:57,676 --> 00:21:02,596
Speaker 1: reverberation playing generally, we're playing stadiums that I have reverb pedals,

382
00:21:02,636 --> 00:21:04,516
Speaker 1: I don't even I think I turned them on like

383
00:21:04,556 --> 00:21:07,356
Speaker 1: twice per show or something, and I would and I

384
00:21:07,756 --> 00:21:09,636
Speaker 1: did a lot of like slap back because I was

385
00:21:09,676 --> 00:21:11,676
Speaker 1: listening to a lot of fifties music when we made

386
00:21:11,716 --> 00:21:16,156
Speaker 1: the two records, so good percentage of songs had slap

387
00:21:16,196 --> 00:21:19,756
Speaker 1: back delay on the basic track of the guitar. But live,

388
00:21:19,836 --> 00:21:23,476
Speaker 1: there's just no point, like, yeah, the arena creates a

389
00:21:23,516 --> 00:21:27,796
Speaker 1: slap yeah, and you can't control the speed of it. Yeah,

390
00:21:27,916 --> 00:21:30,836
Speaker 1: So I got real used to playing the songs dry,

391
00:21:31,236 --> 00:21:33,556
Speaker 1: you know, and like I have a big pedal board,

392
00:21:33,756 --> 00:21:37,116
Speaker 1: and it's generally because there are certain songs that I

393
00:21:37,156 --> 00:21:39,756
Speaker 1: would like to have the option of using a certain

394
00:21:39,796 --> 00:21:41,676
Speaker 1: pedal board if we would do that song. So I'll

395
00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:43,836
Speaker 1: have a pedal that's just in case we play one

396
00:21:43,876 --> 00:21:47,996
Speaker 1: particular song, but generally, like that's how Jimmy Hendricks was

397
00:21:48,036 --> 00:21:51,516
Speaker 1: live on the records. There's all kinds of signal processing

398
00:21:51,596 --> 00:21:54,516
Speaker 1: to the guitar and stuff and and to the whole

399
00:21:54,516 --> 00:21:59,596
Speaker 1: band really and live it's just either distortion or semi

400
00:21:59,636 --> 00:22:03,436
Speaker 1: distorted clean sound and the rest you do with your

401
00:22:03,556 --> 00:22:06,396
Speaker 1: energy and you're you know, you have a whole added

402
00:22:06,516 --> 00:22:09,396
Speaker 1: energy that goes into what you play live. That and

403
00:22:09,556 --> 00:22:12,796
Speaker 1: the visual part of it, the movement and the energy

404
00:22:12,836 --> 00:22:15,756
Speaker 1: transference with the audience that like, I feel like all

405
00:22:15,756 --> 00:22:19,316
Speaker 1: that you use effects and things on a recording to

406
00:22:19,396 --> 00:22:22,236
Speaker 1: make the recording feel like it has a lift to

407
00:22:22,396 --> 00:22:25,116
Speaker 1: it that those other things bring that left live and

408
00:22:25,196 --> 00:22:28,876
Speaker 1: you don't need to use those decorations. Tell me more

409
00:22:28,876 --> 00:22:31,956
Speaker 1: about the energy transference with the audience, because it's a

410
00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:35,196
Speaker 1: really interesting feeling. Most of us who don't get on

411
00:22:35,196 --> 00:22:37,916
Speaker 1: a stage and play in front of, you know, tens

412
00:22:37,916 --> 00:22:40,516
Speaker 1: of thousands of people, don't know what that feeling is. Like.

413
00:22:40,596 --> 00:22:43,676
Speaker 1: How would you describe the difference if you guys are

414
00:22:43,676 --> 00:22:47,716
Speaker 1: playing in the afternoon in the same venue empty and

415
00:22:47,876 --> 00:22:51,236
Speaker 1: then when it's packed with screaming people. How does it

416
00:22:51,316 --> 00:22:54,876
Speaker 1: feel different? For one thing, you're hearing everything at a

417
00:22:54,916 --> 00:22:57,996
Speaker 1: slower speed than you're actually playing it because you've got

418
00:22:58,036 --> 00:23:01,276
Speaker 1: adrenaline going. I see you think you're playing at one

419
00:23:01,316 --> 00:23:05,276
Speaker 1: tempo and you're actually playing at a faster tempo than that.

420
00:23:05,916 --> 00:23:08,796
Speaker 1: And so it's something that I remember early on when

421
00:23:09,116 --> 00:23:10,916
Speaker 1: I was in the band in like eighty nine, we

422
00:23:10,956 --> 00:23:14,196
Speaker 1: started really zoning into it, listening to watching videotapes of

423
00:23:14,196 --> 00:23:18,276
Speaker 1: ourselves or listening to cassettes, and we realized, wow, okay,

424
00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:22,716
Speaker 1: let's yeah, everything's too fast, Like let's let's let's figure

425
00:23:22,756 --> 00:23:25,396
Speaker 1: out like how we can how it can sound right

426
00:23:25,436 --> 00:23:28,436
Speaker 1: to us on stage, how to bridge that gap between

427
00:23:28,996 --> 00:23:32,236
Speaker 1: between what it appears to be live and what it

428
00:23:32,276 --> 00:23:36,116
Speaker 1: actually is. Taking into consideration the audience has probably also

429
00:23:36,196 --> 00:23:39,356
Speaker 1: got some adrenaline going, so you don't need to try

430
00:23:39,436 --> 00:23:41,876
Speaker 1: too much to slow it down. But you've got to

431
00:23:41,916 --> 00:23:44,516
Speaker 1: make sure not to get carried away with yourself live

432
00:23:44,636 --> 00:23:47,876
Speaker 1: to be conscious of like going. If it feels even

433
00:23:47,916 --> 00:23:51,476
Speaker 1: a little fast, you're probably going very very fast, you know.

434
00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:55,236
Speaker 1: So that's one difference is every you're hearing everything different.

435
00:23:55,436 --> 00:23:57,076
Speaker 1: I noticed that for the first time. When I was

436
00:23:57,116 --> 00:24:00,396
Speaker 1: a kid. I used to go running and I'd be

437
00:24:00,436 --> 00:24:03,196
Speaker 1: listening to music all day, and then I'd go running,

438
00:24:03,236 --> 00:24:06,076
Speaker 1: and then i'd come back to my room and be

439
00:24:06,196 --> 00:24:09,116
Speaker 1: doing like situps and stuff. And I put a record

440
00:24:09,156 --> 00:24:13,396
Speaker 1: it on and it sounded too slow, and I couldn't

441
00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:15,596
Speaker 1: account for it. I didn't understand what it was that

442
00:24:15,756 --> 00:24:18,396
Speaker 1: was happening. But then I remembered it later when we

443
00:24:18,476 --> 00:24:21,996
Speaker 1: noticed that live everything was faster, so it's you're going

444
00:24:22,196 --> 00:24:27,756
Speaker 1: faster than your normal perception of time. So that's one difference.

445
00:24:27,836 --> 00:24:31,996
Speaker 1: And I think you also play you play harder, and

446
00:24:32,516 --> 00:24:35,516
Speaker 1: like I've always played completely differently live than I do

447
00:24:35,596 --> 00:24:39,076
Speaker 1: on records, on records like Californication and by the way,

448
00:24:39,076 --> 00:24:42,476
Speaker 1: in particular, like I was really playing in this style

449
00:24:42,556 --> 00:24:45,836
Speaker 1: that I felt served the songs well and that I

450
00:24:45,916 --> 00:24:48,516
Speaker 1: felt like I was doing something with rather than a

451
00:24:48,796 --> 00:24:51,996
Speaker 1: blues kind of basic sense of melody or a rock

452
00:24:52,036 --> 00:24:55,316
Speaker 1: basic sense of melody. I was listening to synthpop a lot,

453
00:24:55,516 --> 00:24:57,876
Speaker 1: and I see that style of melody that sort of

454
00:24:57,916 --> 00:25:00,836
Speaker 1: begins with Kraft Work and continued into the eighties with

455
00:25:01,116 --> 00:25:04,196
Speaker 1: depeche Mode and things like that, being its own specific

456
00:25:04,396 --> 00:25:07,116
Speaker 1: form of melody, and I was trying to apply that

457
00:25:07,156 --> 00:25:08,916
Speaker 1: a lot to the music that we were doing while

458
00:25:09,356 --> 00:25:13,036
Speaker 1: having a rock energy, And so I was playing in

459
00:25:12,676 --> 00:25:14,676
Speaker 1: a in a way that it had a kind of

460
00:25:14,676 --> 00:25:16,956
Speaker 1: a simplicity in common with that kind of music. You

461
00:25:16,996 --> 00:25:20,956
Speaker 1: play melodies that try to sail out with every note

462
00:25:20,956 --> 00:25:23,876
Speaker 1: being in it's perfect place, but creating a sort of

463
00:25:23,876 --> 00:25:28,516
Speaker 1: a shape with the notes and not so much putting

464
00:25:28,676 --> 00:25:31,116
Speaker 1: a lot of expression into the notes, but trying to

465
00:25:31,156 --> 00:25:34,756
Speaker 1: find notes that paint a sort of a good picture

466
00:25:35,036 --> 00:25:37,756
Speaker 1: in the song, and carry on for the melody with

467
00:25:37,836 --> 00:25:41,276
Speaker 1: another when he's not singing, carry that on with another

468
00:25:41,356 --> 00:25:44,916
Speaker 1: melody that's just as catchy as what he's doing. But

469
00:25:45,076 --> 00:25:48,516
Speaker 1: live throughout those times, particularly by the way I was

470
00:25:48,556 --> 00:25:51,996
Speaker 1: playing live like in a very like flashy, putting a

471
00:25:51,996 --> 00:25:55,796
Speaker 1: lot of expression into it way. It's just that's what

472
00:25:55,916 --> 00:25:59,316
Speaker 1: the audience brought out of me. I couldn't keep the

473
00:25:59,356 --> 00:26:02,716
Speaker 1: same kind of restraint live that I that I could

474
00:26:02,876 --> 00:26:06,716
Speaker 1: for the studio. We have to pause for a quick break,

475
00:26:06,796 --> 00:26:09,036
Speaker 1: and then we'll be back with more from John Fashonte

476
00:26:09,356 --> 00:26:16,116
Speaker 1: and Rick Rubin. We're back with more from Rick Rubin

477
00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:20,276
Speaker 1: and John f Shante. What is your pre show ritual? Like?

478
00:26:21,156 --> 00:26:26,076
Speaker 1: I have all these ways of doing scales that are creative.

479
00:26:26,436 --> 00:26:28,116
Speaker 1: When I was a teenager, I would just play them

480
00:26:28,116 --> 00:26:29,836
Speaker 1: in the normal way you play them, or a couple

481
00:26:29,876 --> 00:26:33,516
Speaker 1: of variations of that. But as I've gotten older, it's

482
00:26:33,556 --> 00:26:37,276
Speaker 1: a way of putting my creativity into my instrument that

483
00:26:37,396 --> 00:26:40,796
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the sound that comes out

484
00:26:40,956 --> 00:26:43,916
Speaker 1: because my playing. I'm I really believe in the philosophy

485
00:26:43,956 --> 00:26:48,156
Speaker 1: of you plays what sounds good, you don't you don't

486
00:26:48,156 --> 00:26:52,276
Speaker 1: play something because it's physically interesting or anything like that,

487
00:26:52,396 --> 00:26:56,036
Speaker 1: or impressive or anything like that. So I have these

488
00:26:56,596 --> 00:26:59,516
Speaker 1: warm ups that are really based on Okay, let's forget

489
00:26:59,516 --> 00:27:02,516
Speaker 1: about the sound that the instrument makes. What's what's doing

490
00:27:02,676 --> 00:27:05,876
Speaker 1: something unusual with the fingers that they're not accustomed to doing.

491
00:27:05,996 --> 00:27:08,756
Speaker 1: And how can I play games with my brain with

492
00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:11,796
Speaker 1: the exercises that teach me things about the nature of

493
00:27:11,836 --> 00:27:15,036
Speaker 1: the twelve note system that we all use. That's going

494
00:27:15,116 --> 00:27:17,436
Speaker 1: to be challenging for my fingers as well as for

495
00:27:17,556 --> 00:27:21,276
Speaker 1: my brain. And so over the years, just because I

496
00:27:21,916 --> 00:27:23,516
Speaker 1: do it all the time, I did it a lot

497
00:27:23,556 --> 00:27:26,036
Speaker 1: even when I wasn't in the band for the ten

498
00:27:26,116 --> 00:27:29,276
Speaker 1: years that I wasn't in it. It's just it's interesting

499
00:27:29,316 --> 00:27:31,596
Speaker 1: to me to look at the notes in these various ways.

500
00:27:31,596 --> 00:27:34,076
Speaker 1: So I've come up with a whole series of things

501
00:27:34,116 --> 00:27:37,236
Speaker 1: that are challenging and that I always learned from having

502
00:27:37,276 --> 00:27:41,516
Speaker 1: to do with the organization of notes in relationship to

503
00:27:41,636 --> 00:27:45,116
Speaker 1: scales and different kind of scales. And I'm just always

504
00:27:45,116 --> 00:27:48,356
Speaker 1: improving on it. No, I'll get little inspirations from it

505
00:27:48,436 --> 00:27:52,716
Speaker 1: from like I'll watch, you know, a guitar instruction thing

506
00:27:52,796 --> 00:27:56,996
Speaker 1: by John McLoughlin or Allen Holdsworth. I watched one John

507
00:27:57,076 --> 00:27:59,196
Speaker 1: McLoughlin thing. I think that got me through like six

508
00:27:59,276 --> 00:28:01,996
Speaker 1: years of practicing. And then and then when Allen Holdsworth

509
00:28:02,116 --> 00:28:05,356
Speaker 1: thing like went to the next five years, like I see,

510
00:28:05,556 --> 00:28:07,516
Speaker 1: I see what they're talking about in there, and then

511
00:28:07,556 --> 00:28:11,356
Speaker 1: it makes me think of new ideas about about how

512
00:28:11,356 --> 00:28:15,516
Speaker 1: to approach scales and exercises just from little thing, one

513
00:28:15,516 --> 00:28:18,236
Speaker 1: little thing they say might might give me a whole

514
00:28:18,236 --> 00:28:20,356
Speaker 1: stream of ideas that like, I'm doing the same thing

515
00:28:20,356 --> 00:28:22,396
Speaker 1: every day, and a year later, I get the idea.

516
00:28:22,996 --> 00:28:24,636
Speaker 1: But what if I did it this way? What if

517
00:28:24,796 --> 00:28:27,756
Speaker 1: what if I add what if I twist it in

518
00:28:27,796 --> 00:28:30,356
Speaker 1: this direction or something? You see, if we give you

519
00:28:30,356 --> 00:28:33,756
Speaker 1: a guitarget, you give me a demonstration of just how

520
00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:37,556
Speaker 1: that works, I could try. Yeah, let's try. I'm curious

521
00:28:37,556 --> 00:28:42,356
Speaker 1: to hear it. Okay, So here's an example with scales.

522
00:28:42,676 --> 00:28:44,876
Speaker 1: If we if we do something like take four notes

523
00:28:47,556 --> 00:28:51,316
Speaker 1: and I'm playing them now with no accents. It's four notes.

524
00:28:51,556 --> 00:28:53,996
Speaker 1: But if now I'm going to start accenting it in threes,

525
00:29:02,316 --> 00:29:04,996
Speaker 1: and if you look at that, the accents once you

526
00:29:05,036 --> 00:29:08,796
Speaker 1: start doing that pattern, the accents went lowest note highest, note,

527
00:29:09,156 --> 00:29:12,076
Speaker 1: second highest note, third highest note, fourth highest note. It

528
00:29:12,196 --> 00:29:14,476
Speaker 1: creates a pattern. You've got four notes, and let's call

529
00:29:14,516 --> 00:29:17,476
Speaker 1: this one one, two three four, But if you play

530
00:29:17,516 --> 00:29:21,996
Speaker 1: them in threes, the pattern winds up being four one

531
00:29:22,116 --> 00:29:25,836
Speaker 1: two three four one two three, And that's just something

532
00:29:25,876 --> 00:29:28,196
Speaker 1: that exists in nature having to do with the relationship

533
00:29:28,276 --> 00:29:31,516
Speaker 1: of rhythm and melody. Cool. So, so if we take

534
00:29:31,556 --> 00:29:35,476
Speaker 1: the same four notes and instead play them in fives,

535
00:29:35,476 --> 00:29:49,596
Speaker 1: like it's so it's four notes, but we go so again,

536
00:29:49,756 --> 00:29:52,836
Speaker 1: we wound up with the same accenting pattern of it

537
00:29:52,876 --> 00:29:55,076
Speaker 1: went from this note, this note to this note to

538
00:29:55,156 --> 00:29:57,196
Speaker 1: this note to this note. It keeps going kind of

539
00:29:57,236 --> 00:30:00,316
Speaker 1: in a circle, you know. And again if we take

540
00:30:00,356 --> 00:30:02,876
Speaker 1: three notes and divide it into sevens, then we go

541
00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:12,996
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's hard, yeah, like that it seems exhausting.

542
00:30:13,036 --> 00:30:16,276
Speaker 1: Also yeah, so so so that's just that's trying to

543
00:30:16,316 --> 00:30:20,876
Speaker 1: show like show it in in one in one position. Yes, um,

544
00:30:20,916 --> 00:30:23,036
Speaker 1: so you do that in scales just what I do.

545
00:30:23,116 --> 00:30:25,476
Speaker 1: So I'll take like a series of notes, like say,

546
00:30:25,596 --> 00:30:33,156
Speaker 1: going down in sevens. So that's just going down in sevens.

547
00:30:36,956 --> 00:30:39,396
Speaker 1: And there's a certain interval jump if you're going if

548
00:30:39,396 --> 00:30:42,236
Speaker 1: you're playing a seven note scale, and you're going down

549
00:30:42,236 --> 00:30:45,476
Speaker 1: in sevens, you're always jumping up at six interval, whether

550
00:30:45,516 --> 00:30:51,716
Speaker 1: it's a minor or major six up to six, up

551
00:30:51,716 --> 00:30:55,116
Speaker 1: to six. So there's this shape that you see in it.

552
00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:03,756
Speaker 1: That's the distance that you're that you're that you're jumping

553
00:31:03,836 --> 00:31:06,236
Speaker 1: up every time you go down in sevens on a

554
00:31:06,316 --> 00:31:09,596
Speaker 1: seven note scale. That's you know, in this case, a

555
00:31:09,716 --> 00:31:12,956
Speaker 1: major based on a major scale. So now I'm gonna

556
00:31:12,996 --> 00:31:17,116
Speaker 1: go down in sevens, but I'm gonna I'm gonna accent

557
00:31:17,196 --> 00:31:39,316
Speaker 1: in fives. So so it's so difficult, especially with numbers

558
00:31:39,356 --> 00:31:43,196
Speaker 1: like fives, where it's not like the even numbers seem

559
00:31:43,276 --> 00:31:47,676
Speaker 1: to feel more comfortable. Yeah, if you do in twos

560
00:31:47,836 --> 00:31:52,156
Speaker 1: or threes or fives, your picking hand is going is

561
00:31:52,156 --> 00:31:55,276
Speaker 1: going down for accent, then up for an accent, then

562
00:31:55,316 --> 00:31:56,996
Speaker 1: down for an accent, up for an accent. So that's

563
00:31:57,036 --> 00:31:59,196
Speaker 1: another good part of it, is to get your upstrokes

564
00:31:59,236 --> 00:32:03,036
Speaker 1: feeling like as solid accents as as your down strokes.

565
00:32:03,676 --> 00:32:05,676
Speaker 1: So that's like a good example of the kind of

566
00:32:05,716 --> 00:32:08,596
Speaker 1: things that I do. But you know, it gets harder

567
00:32:08,596 --> 00:32:13,316
Speaker 1: and harder the larger the distances and the bigger the numbers. Are,

568
00:32:13,356 --> 00:32:16,796
Speaker 1: Like I generally when I practice, I'm probably staying in

569
00:32:16,916 --> 00:32:22,996
Speaker 1: numbers under ten, both in terms of maybe eleven, but

570
00:32:23,116 --> 00:32:26,276
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to go like go down eleven notes

571
00:32:26,556 --> 00:32:30,916
Speaker 1: and and accent in thirteens. There's a pattern to it,

572
00:32:30,956 --> 00:32:33,556
Speaker 1: but it's much it's it's really hard to do. It

573
00:32:34,076 --> 00:32:37,796
Speaker 1: fucks you up. You start hearing the notes as as

574
00:32:37,876 --> 00:32:41,236
Speaker 1: dictating the rhythm. And that's what the exercise in general

575
00:32:41,916 --> 00:32:45,476
Speaker 1: helps you not do, is to for a moment while

576
00:32:45,516 --> 00:32:49,996
Speaker 1: you're practicing, disconnect the rhythm from the pitch. Don't let

577
00:32:49,996 --> 00:32:53,396
Speaker 1: the pitch determine the rhythm. I'm pretty sure from all

578
00:32:53,396 --> 00:32:55,716
Speaker 1: the music that I've learned and everything that melodies that

579
00:32:55,756 --> 00:33:01,676
Speaker 1: are interesting and melodies that don't just feel average have

580
00:33:01,956 --> 00:33:06,676
Speaker 1: interesting ways of acting in a way that's rhythmic separately

581
00:33:06,836 --> 00:33:11,196
Speaker 1: from the from them, that the two areas are sort

582
00:33:11,236 --> 00:33:16,036
Speaker 1: of functioning independently of each other, yet in harmony that catchy.

583
00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:18,076
Speaker 1: It's not. It's not just the order of the notes.

584
00:33:18,076 --> 00:33:20,316
Speaker 1: It's an order the order of the notes and where

585
00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:23,236
Speaker 1: the accents are yeah, and and and how the rhythm

586
00:33:23,316 --> 00:33:26,756
Speaker 1: relates to the note. When you think of like songs

587
00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:29,916
Speaker 1: like Mary had a Little Lamb or something it's almost

588
00:33:29,956 --> 00:33:33,836
Speaker 1: like the notes and the rhythm are just one hundred

589
00:33:33,876 --> 00:33:37,396
Speaker 1: percent like lined up with each other. Yeah, and when

590
00:33:37,436 --> 00:33:40,836
Speaker 1: you get more you know, melodies like the Beatles or

591
00:33:40,876 --> 00:33:44,156
Speaker 1: something like that, where where you wonder where this melody

592
00:33:44,236 --> 00:33:46,836
Speaker 1: came from. It's because it doesn't have such an obvious

593
00:33:46,956 --> 00:33:50,316
Speaker 1: relationship between the rhythm and the notes. There's something creative

594
00:33:50,356 --> 00:33:53,756
Speaker 1: going on in their spin on it. So so that's

595
00:33:53,756 --> 00:33:56,756
Speaker 1: why I feel like those exercises do have an effect

596
00:33:56,796 --> 00:34:01,196
Speaker 1: on one sense of melody and one's awareness of because

597
00:34:01,236 --> 00:34:03,876
Speaker 1: you normally you can't you don't. A note is the

598
00:34:03,956 --> 00:34:06,316
Speaker 1: rhythm and the note, and it's where it falls in

599
00:34:06,356 --> 00:34:08,676
Speaker 1: the in the bar and where what bar that is

600
00:34:08,676 --> 00:34:12,076
Speaker 1: in the song? All those things make a note. What

601
00:34:12,116 --> 00:34:14,996
Speaker 1: it sounds like to us? Yeah, Like I said, it's

602
00:34:15,036 --> 00:34:18,716
Speaker 1: not music. It's purely for the physical part and the

603
00:34:18,796 --> 00:34:22,596
Speaker 1: brain's conception of the relationships notes to each other and

604
00:34:22,636 --> 00:34:26,876
Speaker 1: the relationship also of rhythm two notes. Yeah. To me,

605
00:34:27,116 --> 00:34:31,556
Speaker 1: practicing and making music, they're these two completely separate things.

606
00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:34,996
Speaker 1: I don't feel that you need to use what you

607
00:34:35,036 --> 00:34:37,636
Speaker 1: practice in your music or apply it in any way.

608
00:34:37,716 --> 00:34:40,076
Speaker 1: It's really they're two separate art forms. And I think

609
00:34:40,116 --> 00:34:42,756
Speaker 1: you should look at practicing as its own sort of

610
00:34:42,956 --> 00:34:45,876
Speaker 1: cool art forms. So when you do your rehearsals, do

611
00:34:45,876 --> 00:34:48,596
Speaker 1: you do with an acoustic or an electric electric? Electric?

612
00:34:48,676 --> 00:34:50,556
Speaker 1: Because it's the guitar you're going to be playing, or

613
00:34:51,636 --> 00:34:54,076
Speaker 1: like the guitar I'm gonna be playing. So I start

614
00:34:54,116 --> 00:34:59,396
Speaker 1: out with various exercises and scales, and then I move

615
00:34:59,476 --> 00:35:02,116
Speaker 1: on to playing along with things that I like. And

616
00:35:02,156 --> 00:35:04,796
Speaker 1: I try to play along with certain things because they're

617
00:35:04,796 --> 00:35:08,596
Speaker 1: good for rhythm guitar, certain things because they're good for

618
00:35:08,836 --> 00:35:12,316
Speaker 1: band ending and doing vibrato, things that have solos, so

619
00:35:12,356 --> 00:35:14,596
Speaker 1: I like playing along with. I have a lot of

620
00:35:14,636 --> 00:35:18,276
Speaker 1: things memorized right now that are They're mostly things that

621
00:35:18,356 --> 00:35:23,756
Speaker 1: people improvised on a record or live, and so I

622
00:35:23,836 --> 00:35:27,116
Speaker 1: have these solos by some of my favorite rock guitar players.

623
00:35:27,956 --> 00:35:31,836
Speaker 1: And usually in my life, I just learn a stream

624
00:35:31,876 --> 00:35:34,516
Speaker 1: of things, and I gradually forget things as I learn

625
00:35:34,716 --> 00:35:37,156
Speaker 1: new things. But at the moment, it seemed best for

626
00:35:37,276 --> 00:35:40,676
Speaker 1: my fingers if I were to only on show days

627
00:35:41,036 --> 00:35:43,556
Speaker 1: play things that I know really well that I can play,

628
00:35:43,596 --> 00:35:45,756
Speaker 1: that I should be able to play without making mistakes.

629
00:35:46,116 --> 00:35:48,636
Speaker 1: So I've got a number of things memorized that I

630
00:35:48,676 --> 00:35:51,076
Speaker 1: can do that with and I like to spend a

631
00:35:51,076 --> 00:35:54,036
Speaker 1: couple hours doing that before this show. Nothing is as

632
00:35:54,116 --> 00:35:56,116
Speaker 1: crazy as what I do on stage, because a lot

633
00:35:56,116 --> 00:35:58,276
Speaker 1: of what I do on stage, I wouldn't even know

634
00:35:58,316 --> 00:36:02,916
Speaker 1: how to figure it out myself, just pure a pure

635
00:36:03,196 --> 00:36:05,996
Speaker 1: energetic transmission. Yeah, a lot of people would call it

636
00:36:06,076 --> 00:36:08,636
Speaker 1: sloppy because you can't hear It doesn't so much sound

637
00:36:08,636 --> 00:36:12,996
Speaker 1: like noe noe, noe, noe noe. A lot of the

638
00:36:12,996 --> 00:36:15,316
Speaker 1: time there's some weird noise that you're like, well, I'm

639
00:36:15,356 --> 00:36:17,796
Speaker 1: not sure where his fingers were there, but like I

640
00:36:17,876 --> 00:36:19,676
Speaker 1: really like the sound of those things, and I like

641
00:36:19,796 --> 00:36:22,796
Speaker 1: playing like that. You know, if you would listened to it,

642
00:36:23,036 --> 00:36:27,516
Speaker 1: could you tell what you were doing or maybe? And

643
00:36:27,516 --> 00:36:29,436
Speaker 1: I can do it with a most any guitar playing,

644
00:36:29,476 --> 00:36:32,356
Speaker 1: like like Frank Zappa is a guitar player who I

645
00:36:32,356 --> 00:36:34,156
Speaker 1: would put in that category. Like a lot of what

646
00:36:34,276 --> 00:36:37,556
Speaker 1: he plays, I think it's a matter of opinion what

647
00:36:37,676 --> 00:36:40,156
Speaker 1: he's actually playing. Two people could figure it out and

648
00:36:40,196 --> 00:36:42,836
Speaker 1: do it two different ways. A lot of it's just

649
00:36:42,956 --> 00:36:44,996
Speaker 1: not clear enough, some of it is, and then he

650
00:36:45,036 --> 00:36:47,796
Speaker 1: goes into a section where it's just like, well, we

651
00:36:47,836 --> 00:36:49,716
Speaker 1: can only guess what he's doing at that pen and

652
00:36:49,836 --> 00:36:53,036
Speaker 1: in his case, does it always sound intentional or no.

653
00:36:54,076 --> 00:36:57,156
Speaker 1: He definitely would admit to making what he called mistakes.

654
00:36:57,636 --> 00:37:01,996
Speaker 1: To me, there's no mistakes. The sound he made is

655
00:37:02,036 --> 00:37:05,676
Speaker 1: the music, and there's nothing it should have been, you know, yeah, yeah,

656
00:37:05,836 --> 00:37:08,516
Speaker 1: but he may have been trying to do something different. Yeah,

657
00:37:08,556 --> 00:37:11,276
Speaker 1: he was trying to do something different and he doesn't

658
00:37:11,316 --> 00:37:14,636
Speaker 1: quite make it. And that happens with these guitar players

659
00:37:14,636 --> 00:37:17,836
Speaker 1: who go out on a ledge, like Jimmy Page, Jimmy Hendricks.

660
00:37:17,876 --> 00:37:20,996
Speaker 1: They all have sections like this that it becomes hard

661
00:37:21,036 --> 00:37:23,796
Speaker 1: to be sure exactly what they're doing. But I try

662
00:37:23,796 --> 00:37:25,996
Speaker 1: to learn things like that. But a lot of what

663
00:37:26,076 --> 00:37:28,316
Speaker 1: I'm playing live is stuff that there's no level of

664
00:37:28,356 --> 00:37:31,916
Speaker 1: confusion about it, and it just it's a little beneath

665
00:37:31,996 --> 00:37:34,556
Speaker 1: the level of what I'm going to do when I

666
00:37:34,556 --> 00:37:36,676
Speaker 1: get on stage. But I find that if I do

667
00:37:36,716 --> 00:37:39,356
Speaker 1: it for a couple hours, that prepares me. It's like

668
00:37:39,396 --> 00:37:41,756
Speaker 1: a meditation. And it's like if I find that I'm

669
00:37:41,836 --> 00:37:45,316
Speaker 1: making mistakes on something that I've played a zillion times

670
00:37:45,316 --> 00:37:48,836
Speaker 1: perfectly and I'm forgetting it to some degree or my

671
00:37:48,876 --> 00:37:51,316
Speaker 1: fingers aren't cooperating with me, it shows me I need

672
00:37:51,356 --> 00:37:55,556
Speaker 1: to bring an extra focus to that thing. So cool. Yeah,

673
00:37:55,596 --> 00:37:58,876
Speaker 1: they're so interesting. Yeah, I asked, because some of the

674
00:37:58,876 --> 00:38:02,956
Speaker 1: craziest solos that I've ever seen somebody transcribe. And this

675
00:38:02,996 --> 00:38:04,556
Speaker 1: is how I learned how to read music when I

676
00:38:04,596 --> 00:38:06,476
Speaker 1: was a kid, was because I was so fascinated by

677
00:38:06,476 --> 00:38:09,036
Speaker 1: the rhythms in them, where Steve had done these trends

678
00:38:09,116 --> 00:38:11,716
Speaker 1: scriptions of Frank Zappa's guitar solos. There was a whole

679
00:38:11,756 --> 00:38:14,276
Speaker 1: book of them, and I had no interest in reading music.

680
00:38:14,316 --> 00:38:16,356
Speaker 1: But when I learned that there was this way of

681
00:38:16,356 --> 00:38:18,996
Speaker 1: writing down when people are speeding up and slowing down

682
00:38:19,076 --> 00:38:22,236
Speaker 1: across the bar line and when they're going into grooves

683
00:38:22,276 --> 00:38:25,676
Speaker 1: that seemed completely separate from what the drummers doing but

684
00:38:25,756 --> 00:38:28,476
Speaker 1: do have a relationship, it was fascinating to me. And

685
00:38:28,516 --> 00:38:30,996
Speaker 1: it was really the only way to learn a lot

686
00:38:31,036 --> 00:38:33,716
Speaker 1: of franksz Appa's written music was to understand how it

687
00:38:33,756 --> 00:38:36,156
Speaker 1: was written down, because he would use those kind of

688
00:38:36,196 --> 00:38:38,756
Speaker 1: rhythms both in his playing and in his writing. So

689
00:38:38,996 --> 00:38:40,916
Speaker 1: I learned how to read. I just went directly to

690
00:38:40,996 --> 00:38:43,796
Speaker 1: what turned out to be like the hardest stuff to

691
00:38:44,116 --> 00:38:46,636
Speaker 1: you know, to sight read, and consequently I never learned

692
00:38:46,636 --> 00:38:50,316
Speaker 1: to sight read but I asked Steve fi because I

693
00:38:50,396 --> 00:38:52,316
Speaker 1: think a lot about polyrhythms. I used them a lot

694
00:38:52,316 --> 00:38:54,796
Speaker 1: of my electronic music. I have machines I can program

695
00:38:55,036 --> 00:38:58,836
Speaker 1: where you're playing like five against four or evenly or

696
00:38:59,196 --> 00:39:04,036
Speaker 1: seven against three, or these strange ways of rhythmically relating

697
00:39:04,076 --> 00:39:06,636
Speaker 1: to the other instruments. So I'd given a lot of

698
00:39:06,676 --> 00:39:09,076
Speaker 1: thought to it for so many years. And I asked them,

699
00:39:09,156 --> 00:39:12,716
Speaker 1: as you think of them as objectively accurate? And he

700
00:39:12,796 --> 00:39:16,756
Speaker 1: said it was a matter of interpretation. When you're writing

701
00:39:16,836 --> 00:39:19,836
Speaker 1: rhythms like that and the drummer is not playing to

702
00:39:19,876 --> 00:39:23,356
Speaker 1: a click, but he himself is slightly speeding up and

703
00:39:23,396 --> 00:39:26,036
Speaker 1: slowing down all the time, it's very hard to say

704
00:39:26,796 --> 00:39:30,356
Speaker 1: the rhythm right here is the rhythms are all based

705
00:39:30,396 --> 00:39:36,436
Speaker 1: on thirteen evenly across four quarter notes. There's no way

706
00:39:36,436 --> 00:39:40,276
Speaker 1: to accurately to be able to objectively say, yes, that

707
00:39:40,396 --> 00:39:42,796
Speaker 1: is the rhythm. Because as long as when you're dealing

708
00:39:42,876 --> 00:39:47,476
Speaker 1: with rhythms that are that delicate to play accurately, the

709
00:39:47,596 --> 00:39:50,676
Speaker 1: slightest little bit of timing change in the drummer, even

710
00:39:50,716 --> 00:39:54,236
Speaker 1: a really good type drummer, makes the difference to where

711
00:39:54,396 --> 00:39:58,796
Speaker 1: it's not what you conceived it to be. I think

712
00:39:58,836 --> 00:40:01,356
Speaker 1: all that studying of Frank Zappa's music that I did

713
00:40:01,356 --> 00:40:03,236
Speaker 1: when I was a teenager did a lot of good

714
00:40:03,276 --> 00:40:06,636
Speaker 1: for me, because it showed me that not everything needs

715
00:40:06,636 --> 00:40:09,436
Speaker 1: to line up perfectly rhythmically with everybody else the way

716
00:40:09,436 --> 00:40:13,796
Speaker 1: most people tend to play, and melodies don't have to

717
00:40:13,876 --> 00:40:17,596
Speaker 1: be this straightforward thing in order to be accessible or

718
00:40:17,636 --> 00:40:21,116
Speaker 1: to be catchy. That that that you can be doing

719
00:40:21,156 --> 00:40:24,036
Speaker 1: little twists with them all the time and taking all

720
00:40:24,036 --> 00:40:27,676
Speaker 1: those liberties that he was taking, like and studying them.

721
00:40:27,716 --> 00:40:30,916
Speaker 1: I just I just feel like gave me a sort

722
00:40:30,956 --> 00:40:36,636
Speaker 1: of unique outlook for a pop musician on you know,

723
00:40:36,716 --> 00:40:39,836
Speaker 1: on what notes are there for and what you're able

724
00:40:39,836 --> 00:40:41,436
Speaker 1: to do with them. I feel like, even in the

725
00:40:41,476 --> 00:40:45,156
Speaker 1: simplest things that I do, I feel like that familiarity

726
00:40:45,196 --> 00:40:48,036
Speaker 1: I have with doing things in an unusual way winds

727
00:40:48,116 --> 00:40:51,076
Speaker 1: up making the melodies unusual, you know, in some weird way.

728
00:40:51,596 --> 00:40:53,836
Speaker 1: Do you feel like if it happened that you were

729
00:40:54,076 --> 00:40:57,476
Speaker 1: playing a concert and it came time for solo, and

730
00:40:57,516 --> 00:41:00,756
Speaker 1: if for some reason something happened where the audience could

731
00:41:00,756 --> 00:41:03,716
Speaker 1: still hear you perfectly, but you couldn't hear yourself at all,

732
00:41:04,676 --> 00:41:08,436
Speaker 1: could you play a solo without hearing yourself at all,

733
00:41:08,756 --> 00:41:12,036
Speaker 1: and it be coherent for the audience, I think. So

734
00:41:12,116 --> 00:41:14,756
Speaker 1: you know that that kind of happened at the LA

735
00:41:14,836 --> 00:41:17,556
Speaker 1: show that we did a few months ago. I got

736
00:41:17,556 --> 00:41:20,076
Speaker 1: out on stage and there was nothing in my ear

737
00:41:20,156 --> 00:41:22,796
Speaker 1: monitors at all. They were they were silent, and so

738
00:41:22,836 --> 00:41:24,836
Speaker 1: I went over to the side of the stage and

739
00:41:24,876 --> 00:41:27,396
Speaker 1: it just sounded like a mess up there. Because we

740
00:41:27,436 --> 00:41:31,156
Speaker 1: all used in air monitors, what it actually sounds like

741
00:41:31,196 --> 00:41:34,196
Speaker 1: on stage is pretty incoherent. So I went to the

742
00:41:34,236 --> 00:41:36,436
Speaker 1: side and was telling my guitar tack, telling the sound

743
00:41:36,516 --> 00:41:39,236
Speaker 1: man what's going on. They're watching them try to solve

744
00:41:39,236 --> 00:41:43,036
Speaker 1: the problem, and I went into playing a two handed

745
00:41:43,036 --> 00:41:47,796
Speaker 1: tapping Eddie van Halen style solo. Barely could hear what

746
00:41:47,836 --> 00:41:51,396
Speaker 1: I was doing. But after the show, my wife's cousin

747
00:41:51,516 --> 00:41:55,076
Speaker 1: said that solo at the beginning of the show incredible.

748
00:41:55,276 --> 00:41:57,236
Speaker 1: But yeah, I could barely hear what I was doing.

749
00:41:57,276 --> 00:41:59,516
Speaker 1: But I do that kind of thing when i'm It's

750
00:41:59,556 --> 00:42:01,796
Speaker 1: part of my practicing that when I warm up, I

751
00:42:02,116 --> 00:42:05,796
Speaker 1: also do things like that, like just doing this at

752
00:42:05,836 --> 00:42:10,476
Speaker 1: every part of the neck that I just doing these

753
00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:14,396
Speaker 1: trills like everywhere that I can did Eddie actually invent

754
00:42:14,436 --> 00:42:18,876
Speaker 1: that technique. No, he invented that use of it, like

755
00:42:18,956 --> 00:42:21,876
Speaker 1: nobody did it sounding like what he sounded like doing it.

756
00:42:22,116 --> 00:42:30,676
Speaker 1: There's certain details about patterns, like like like nobody was

757
00:42:30,716 --> 00:42:34,756
Speaker 1: doing that, but Steve Hackett from Genesis was doing that

758
00:42:35,436 --> 00:42:38,996
Speaker 1: using his right hand finger to tap notes, and Frank

759
00:42:39,076 --> 00:42:41,436
Speaker 1: Zappa was doing the same thing but using the pick

760
00:42:42,956 --> 00:42:45,796
Speaker 1: rather like that's what it sounds like with your finger,

761
00:42:49,116 --> 00:42:51,116
Speaker 1: that's with a pick, And so he was calling that

762
00:42:51,196 --> 00:42:54,036
Speaker 1: bagpipe guitar and that was a good Both those examples

763
00:42:54,036 --> 00:42:59,556
Speaker 1: were good. Three years before Van Hilen influenced Eddie, Like

764
00:42:59,636 --> 00:43:01,316
Speaker 1: did he hear those and then come up with his

765
00:43:01,356 --> 00:43:03,156
Speaker 1: way of doing it? He claimed he came up with

766
00:43:03,236 --> 00:43:06,076
Speaker 1: his on the toilet while he was taking a ship.

767
00:43:06,196 --> 00:43:09,596
Speaker 1: Good story, But he went backstage at a Steve Hackett

768
00:43:09,636 --> 00:43:11,636
Speaker 1: show and told Steve Hackett that he got the idea

769
00:43:11,676 --> 00:43:14,476
Speaker 1: for it from being at a Genesis show and saw

770
00:43:14,556 --> 00:43:17,836
Speaker 1: him doing it. So I tend to believe that. But

771
00:43:18,196 --> 00:43:21,156
Speaker 1: Steve Hackett's definitely doing it. On selling England by the Pound,

772
00:43:21,156 --> 00:43:24,596
Speaker 1: the Genesis album, He's definitely doing that technique. You can

773
00:43:24,636 --> 00:43:28,396
Speaker 1: hear it, Yeah, when you're soloing live. How much do

774
00:43:28,436 --> 00:43:32,636
Speaker 1: you take into account the recording version of the solo.

775
00:43:33,556 --> 00:43:37,636
Speaker 1: Usually not at all. Yeah, Like sometimes if I'm in

776
00:43:37,676 --> 00:43:41,116
Speaker 1: a certain mood, I'll do a variation of it. I'll

777
00:43:41,116 --> 00:43:43,836
Speaker 1: do the same basic idea, or I'll start with the

778
00:43:43,916 --> 00:43:46,436
Speaker 1: same idea. But usually that's even how it is on

779
00:43:46,476 --> 00:43:48,756
Speaker 1: the record. Like people think of the solo on a

780
00:43:48,836 --> 00:43:51,316
Speaker 1: record as being the one, but it was actually I

781
00:43:51,396 --> 00:43:53,276
Speaker 1: had an idea of how I would start it, and

782
00:43:53,316 --> 00:43:54,956
Speaker 1: that was all I had, and that was the one

783
00:43:54,996 --> 00:43:57,076
Speaker 1: that you picked that day, or may have been the

784
00:43:57,116 --> 00:43:58,756
Speaker 1: only one you played. In some cases, like just to

785
00:43:58,796 --> 00:44:01,076
Speaker 1: be prepared for the studio, I often have an idea

786
00:44:01,156 --> 00:44:03,156
Speaker 1: for a beginning and I figured the rest I'll just

787
00:44:03,196 --> 00:44:05,356
Speaker 1: get through and it'll be reflected in the vibe of

788
00:44:05,436 --> 00:44:09,356
Speaker 1: the moment. So live a lot of the time, I

789
00:44:09,436 --> 00:44:11,276
Speaker 1: might start that the same way that I did in

790
00:44:11,316 --> 00:44:14,676
Speaker 1: the studio, start with something that that's pre written, and

791
00:44:14,716 --> 00:44:18,196
Speaker 1: then go off in another direction, because it's always going

792
00:44:18,236 --> 00:44:20,876
Speaker 1: to feel differently depending on the groove of how Fully

793
00:44:20,916 --> 00:44:23,556
Speaker 1: and Chat are playing. To play the same solo, it

794
00:44:23,596 --> 00:44:26,316
Speaker 1: seems like it would be unnatural when you have a

795
00:44:26,396 --> 00:44:29,076
Speaker 1: song in your head. Let's say you're bringing a song

796
00:44:29,116 --> 00:44:31,956
Speaker 1: into the band you've worked on at home. Has there

797
00:44:31,996 --> 00:44:35,156
Speaker 1: ever been a case where you come up with a

798
00:44:35,516 --> 00:44:37,876
Speaker 1: like a part that you're going to play a rhythm

799
00:44:38,196 --> 00:44:41,036
Speaker 1: a rhythm piece, and you play it for the band

800
00:44:41,356 --> 00:44:45,436
Speaker 1: and they join in, and when they join in, it

801
00:44:45,556 --> 00:44:48,676
Speaker 1: instigates you to change what your original part was based

802
00:44:48,676 --> 00:44:52,996
Speaker 1: on what they're playing. Oh, yeah, completely. And Anthony's always

803
00:44:53,036 --> 00:44:56,076
Speaker 1: the last part of that, like, like, I don't really

804
00:44:56,116 --> 00:44:58,556
Speaker 1: know exactly what I'm going to do and how it

805
00:44:58,756 --> 00:45:01,876
Speaker 1: can be, how the groove is going to be put

806
00:45:01,916 --> 00:45:05,876
Speaker 1: into it and all that until I hear what he's thinking.

807
00:45:06,316 --> 00:45:08,116
Speaker 1: But there is a certain amount if I bring in

808
00:45:08,156 --> 00:45:12,156
Speaker 1: a song, if the drums that Chad aren't playing don't

809
00:45:12,316 --> 00:45:14,996
Speaker 1: sound right, I might not have any idea of what

810
00:45:15,036 --> 00:45:17,156
Speaker 1: the drums are supposed to be going in, but when

811
00:45:17,196 --> 00:45:19,636
Speaker 1: I hear the wrong thing, Yeah, it feels like this

812
00:45:19,716 --> 00:45:22,836
Speaker 1: doesn't make this thing do what it wants. Yeah, you

813
00:45:22,836 --> 00:45:26,156
Speaker 1: know we often experiment. Yeah, we work on that, and

814
00:45:26,356 --> 00:45:29,716
Speaker 1: so there's there's always a lot of healthy exchange with Chad.

815
00:45:29,916 --> 00:45:32,916
Speaker 1: With Flea that that's been more difficult. We've had rough

816
00:45:33,076 --> 00:45:36,276
Speaker 1: patches of working together because I had an idea of

817
00:45:36,276 --> 00:45:38,516
Speaker 1: what I thought should be the low note of the

818
00:45:38,596 --> 00:45:40,676
Speaker 1: chord and that kind of thing, and he just hears

819
00:45:40,676 --> 00:45:44,236
Speaker 1: a difference and yeah, but you know, we managed to

820
00:45:44,316 --> 00:45:46,596
Speaker 1: work that out. Always, when he brings in a song,

821
00:45:46,676 --> 00:45:51,436
Speaker 1: either on piano or on bass, do you immediately know

822
00:45:51,516 --> 00:45:55,116
Speaker 1: what to play? Quite often, especially if it's a sort

823
00:45:55,156 --> 00:45:58,516
Speaker 1: of modal, funk based kind of thing that doesn't involve

824
00:45:58,556 --> 00:46:01,156
Speaker 1: chord changes. A lot of the time, the first thing

825
00:46:01,196 --> 00:46:03,676
Speaker 1: I play when when I come in is what winds

826
00:46:03,756 --> 00:46:07,316
Speaker 1: up being on the record. But with piano, with with

827
00:46:07,356 --> 00:46:09,556
Speaker 1: those songs that he's brought in on piano, I I

828
00:46:09,636 --> 00:46:11,756
Speaker 1: definitely have to like put some thought into it and

829
00:46:11,836 --> 00:46:14,636
Speaker 1: ask him what the chords are. We had a real

830
00:46:14,716 --> 00:46:17,236
Speaker 1: nice exchange because in the old days, neither of us

831
00:46:17,276 --> 00:46:20,716
Speaker 1: really communicated having anything to do with theory. It was

832
00:46:20,756 --> 00:46:23,516
Speaker 1: more showing the person what you're playing and then responding

833
00:46:23,556 --> 00:46:26,436
Speaker 1: to that. But as time has gone by and he

834
00:46:26,476 --> 00:46:29,916
Speaker 1: went to music school and stuff for this new stuff,

835
00:46:29,956 --> 00:46:32,476
Speaker 1: we would talk about the chord. He would if he

836
00:46:32,476 --> 00:46:34,196
Speaker 1: didn't know the name of the chord, or one of

837
00:46:34,236 --> 00:46:36,876
Speaker 1: us doesn't know the name of the chord, we tell

838
00:46:36,916 --> 00:46:38,596
Speaker 1: the other one what the intervals that it has in

839
00:46:38,716 --> 00:46:42,236
Speaker 1: it are, and when it's what it involves chord changes,

840
00:46:42,276 --> 00:46:46,436
Speaker 1: that's really where the trouble, Where it involves more it's

841
00:46:46,436 --> 00:46:48,676
Speaker 1: just you got to figure it out. Yeah, you've got

842
00:46:48,676 --> 00:46:51,636
Speaker 1: to take some time. But yeah, Usually the songs that

843
00:46:51,916 --> 00:46:54,636
Speaker 1: are jam style song, songs that come from us just

844
00:46:54,756 --> 00:46:58,436
Speaker 1: jamming with each other, that's usually pretty automatic. And but

845
00:46:58,556 --> 00:47:00,556
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, like some songs on the new album,

846
00:47:00,556 --> 00:47:03,796
Speaker 1: we're like, we did a jam and the first thing

847
00:47:03,796 --> 00:47:06,316
Speaker 1: we played is one song, and what we went into

848
00:47:06,356 --> 00:47:09,476
Speaker 1: ten minutes later wound up being a completely other like

849
00:47:09,556 --> 00:47:12,876
Speaker 1: we'd landed on something through playing the first thing that

850
00:47:12,956 --> 00:47:16,476
Speaker 1: wound up being a whole other tune. So so there's

851
00:47:16,516 --> 00:47:20,316
Speaker 1: this automaticness of fitting together when it's when it's things

852
00:47:20,356 --> 00:47:23,636
Speaker 1: that are in one key, but when it's moving around

853
00:47:23,676 --> 00:47:26,436
Speaker 1: a lot, it requires some thought both for him to

854
00:47:26,436 --> 00:47:28,436
Speaker 1: come up with bass parts, for me to come up

855
00:47:28,476 --> 00:47:35,796
Speaker 1: with guitar parts. If there's a difficult chord progression presented

856
00:47:35,836 --> 00:47:39,636
Speaker 1: to you on piano, would your instinct first to be

857
00:47:39,876 --> 00:47:42,836
Speaker 1: thinking about how to interact with it, or would it

858
00:47:42,876 --> 00:47:45,916
Speaker 1: be to play along with it, like to double it first,

859
00:47:46,396 --> 00:47:48,996
Speaker 1: to know what to do off of it from piano.

860
00:47:49,076 --> 00:47:51,636
Speaker 1: I can't do that because she's got he can play

861
00:47:51,676 --> 00:47:54,236
Speaker 1: more notes than I can on my guitar. On piano,

862
00:47:54,276 --> 00:47:57,516
Speaker 1: it's so easy, for instance, to play a chord that's

863
00:47:57,916 --> 00:48:00,196
Speaker 1: almost everything in it is a whole step away from

864
00:48:00,196 --> 00:48:03,316
Speaker 1: each other, if a very close distance. Yes, guitar, you

865
00:48:03,396 --> 00:48:06,076
Speaker 1: just can't do it. You can't. You've got to take

866
00:48:06,076 --> 00:48:07,876
Speaker 1: notes out of the chord in order to be able

867
00:48:07,916 --> 00:48:10,916
Speaker 1: to physically play it. I see. So you can't really

868
00:48:11,036 --> 00:48:13,956
Speaker 1: duplicate it on the guitar, you do, right, Yeah, not

869
00:48:14,036 --> 00:48:15,716
Speaker 1: if it has too many notes in it. He's doing

870
00:48:15,756 --> 00:48:17,716
Speaker 1: a lot of chords that have ten notes in him,

871
00:48:17,836 --> 00:48:20,516
Speaker 1: I see, don't even have that many strings or that range.

872
00:48:20,796 --> 00:48:23,636
Speaker 1: And it comes down as always to doing what you

873
00:48:23,716 --> 00:48:26,716
Speaker 1: hear in your heads, you know. But for chords to

874
00:48:26,876 --> 00:48:28,956
Speaker 1: do what you hear in your head, you have to

875
00:48:28,996 --> 00:48:31,676
Speaker 1: have a good idea of that's because that's one of

876
00:48:31,716 --> 00:48:34,556
Speaker 1: the things I was thinking was when you hear something

877
00:48:34,716 --> 00:48:37,996
Speaker 1: and you respond to it, are you responding with the

878
00:48:37,996 --> 00:48:41,516
Speaker 1: guitar first or are you humming it in your head

879
00:48:41,636 --> 00:48:44,956
Speaker 1: and then playing it? Would the singing version be faster

880
00:48:45,116 --> 00:48:49,876
Speaker 1: than the guitar version to sing the idea or no? Yeah,

881
00:48:49,916 --> 00:48:52,276
Speaker 1: It's an interesting question because it comes back to that

882
00:48:52,796 --> 00:48:55,196
Speaker 1: thing that we touched on in the last episode having

883
00:48:55,236 --> 00:48:57,636
Speaker 1: to do with that period of time where I was

884
00:48:57,876 --> 00:49:01,156
Speaker 1: seeing music very clearly in my head with synesthesia or

885
00:49:01,196 --> 00:49:03,956
Speaker 1: some form of synesthesia. And even though I don't have

886
00:49:04,036 --> 00:49:06,756
Speaker 1: that the way I did when I was, you know,

887
00:49:07,596 --> 00:49:10,556
Speaker 1: in my early twenties, I do see things and I

888
00:49:10,596 --> 00:49:13,556
Speaker 1: can see, for instance, like if I'm playing live the

889
00:49:13,596 --> 00:49:16,396
Speaker 1: beginning of a guitar solo, I'm not humming it. I

890
00:49:16,516 --> 00:49:19,316
Speaker 1: just see it. Wow. When you say you see it,

891
00:49:19,356 --> 00:49:23,116
Speaker 1: you don't see it like written music. No, would you

892
00:49:23,156 --> 00:49:26,036
Speaker 1: describe it as shape? How would you describe it? That's

893
00:49:26,076 --> 00:49:29,596
Speaker 1: the funny thing about it is it's not visual, at

894
00:49:29,676 --> 00:49:32,316
Speaker 1: least I don't think it is. But it's in an

895
00:49:32,356 --> 00:49:35,636
Speaker 1: instant like I might see two bars of a of

896
00:49:35,676 --> 00:49:38,436
Speaker 1: a guitar solo, of the way I'm going to start

897
00:49:38,516 --> 00:49:41,116
Speaker 1: the solo. I might see the first two bars in

898
00:49:41,156 --> 00:49:45,316
Speaker 1: my head as a single picture, like as a How

899
00:49:45,316 --> 00:49:48,356
Speaker 1: would you describe a single instant? I see those two bars.

900
00:49:48,516 --> 00:49:50,636
Speaker 1: But when you say see the two bars, tell me

901
00:49:50,676 --> 00:49:53,476
Speaker 1: what you're like. Describe what you're seeing. What do the

902
00:49:53,476 --> 00:49:57,596
Speaker 1: bars look like? I don't know how. I really it's

903
00:49:56,756 --> 00:49:59,396
Speaker 1: there for me because it's interesting. It's one of those

904
00:49:59,436 --> 00:50:01,556
Speaker 1: things that because I could do this kind of thing

905
00:50:01,636 --> 00:50:03,996
Speaker 1: so good when I was when I was like twenty,

906
00:50:04,036 --> 00:50:06,516
Speaker 1: and I was literally seeing everything like as a movie

907
00:50:06,556 --> 00:50:08,956
Speaker 1: that like you'd ask me, like you'd have the idea,

908
00:50:08,996 --> 00:50:11,276
Speaker 1: like we would be working on Sold to Squeeze, and

909
00:50:11,276 --> 00:50:13,516
Speaker 1: I remember you saying you should write a guitar intro,

910
00:50:13,636 --> 00:50:17,556
Speaker 1: just a guitar only intro for this song, and I

911
00:50:17,556 --> 00:50:19,636
Speaker 1: would just see a picture in my head, like a

912
00:50:19,716 --> 00:50:23,116
Speaker 1: visual picture like a movie of the song, and I

913
00:50:23,156 --> 00:50:25,156
Speaker 1: would think, Okay, what would be the right movie for

914
00:50:25,716 --> 00:50:27,956
Speaker 1: the intro? And then I would just see the movie

915
00:50:27,996 --> 00:50:30,596
Speaker 1: and then play the feeling of that like the school,

916
00:50:30,836 --> 00:50:34,236
Speaker 1: like you're scoring an image. Yeah, but it's not an

917
00:50:34,236 --> 00:50:38,076
Speaker 1: image that you could necessarily describe it not necessarily, but

918
00:50:38,116 --> 00:50:40,516
Speaker 1: it very well could have been. In those days they

919
00:50:40,596 --> 00:50:42,636
Speaker 1: were were there were things that were very clear, but

920
00:50:42,676 --> 00:50:46,796
Speaker 1: they always there was this interaction between the music and

921
00:50:46,876 --> 00:50:49,756
Speaker 1: the visuals in my head to where if I was

922
00:50:50,036 --> 00:50:53,916
Speaker 1: hearing music, I saw a visual that perfectly represented that music.

923
00:50:53,956 --> 00:50:57,956
Speaker 1: And it could be abstract shapes in black and white,

924
00:50:58,156 --> 00:51:02,156
Speaker 1: or it could be color just like a movie, or

925
00:51:02,636 --> 00:51:05,716
Speaker 1: you know it was And so as time went by

926
00:51:05,756 --> 00:51:09,516
Speaker 1: and I went Californication time I start making music again,

927
00:51:09,556 --> 00:51:13,556
Speaker 1: but without that clear visualness, I still have the same

928
00:51:13,796 --> 00:51:16,876
Speaker 1: ability to see the feeling of music in my head.

929
00:51:16,996 --> 00:51:18,796
Speaker 1: Yet there was no picture to it, but I could

930
00:51:18,836 --> 00:51:21,996
Speaker 1: see it. I can only describe it as seeing because

931
00:51:22,716 --> 00:51:26,716
Speaker 1: it's there in my head and it's clear, and I

932
00:51:26,756 --> 00:51:28,916
Speaker 1: see the connection between that and what I would play

933
00:51:28,956 --> 00:51:32,916
Speaker 1: to do that feeling. Yeah, but sometimes there's a visual thing,

934
00:51:33,116 --> 00:51:37,156
Speaker 1: but it's more like spaces than it is like objects. Okay,

935
00:51:37,476 --> 00:51:40,836
Speaker 1: And when you say spaces, do you mean spaces between

936
00:51:40,956 --> 00:51:46,076
Speaker 1: things or a visual space like a location. I'm not

937
00:51:46,116 --> 00:51:48,836
Speaker 1: really saying that. It's anything that I could expect anybody

938
00:51:48,916 --> 00:51:51,516
Speaker 1: to be able to draw or something. Yeah, it's just

939
00:51:51,556 --> 00:51:56,356
Speaker 1: the absence of objects I see as opposed to objects.

940
00:51:56,196 --> 00:51:59,836
Speaker 1: It's it's something like you've seen what's missing? You don't

941
00:51:59,836 --> 00:52:02,756
Speaker 1: have something? What I'm curious you just guys, you're asking

942
00:52:02,756 --> 00:52:04,956
Speaker 1: me these questions. You must have something like, No, I

943
00:52:04,956 --> 00:52:06,876
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm trying. I'm trying to visual I'm trying

944
00:52:06,876 --> 00:52:09,916
Speaker 1: to visualize what you're experiencing, right, And I'm just looking

945
00:52:09,916 --> 00:52:12,036
Speaker 1: for any clues to I want to see it, you know,

946
00:52:12,036 --> 00:52:13,756
Speaker 1: I don't want to I want to see it. Yeah,

947
00:52:13,956 --> 00:52:16,196
Speaker 1: pretty mysterious. I think I told you. I think I

948
00:52:16,236 --> 00:52:18,716
Speaker 1: told you when I was gassed at the dentist's office.

949
00:52:18,756 --> 00:52:21,756
Speaker 1: I told you that story a long time ago. Needle phobic,

950
00:52:22,116 --> 00:52:24,716
Speaker 1: I got gassed to have a blood test and I

951
00:52:24,756 --> 00:52:27,036
Speaker 1: was listening to music and they gassed me and I

952
00:52:27,076 --> 00:52:30,916
Speaker 1: could see the music. I could see three D images,

953
00:52:30,956 --> 00:52:33,276
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, oh, now I know how to

954
00:52:33,316 --> 00:52:36,356
Speaker 1: do this, because like now that I've been exposed to it, Yeah,

955
00:52:36,396 --> 00:52:38,316
Speaker 1: I don't need laughing gas to do this. I see

956
00:52:38,316 --> 00:52:40,916
Speaker 1: what this is, right. And then I've never been able

957
00:52:40,916 --> 00:52:43,356
Speaker 1: to do it again, even not on laughing gas. I can't.

958
00:52:43,356 --> 00:52:45,436
Speaker 1: I've never been able to do it again. But in

959
00:52:45,716 --> 00:52:50,316
Speaker 1: that first time, I was able to clearly see and

960
00:52:50,356 --> 00:52:53,236
Speaker 1: it was so cool. It was so cool to be

961
00:52:53,276 --> 00:52:56,956
Speaker 1: able to see it. Yeah, that's how it was for me, real, consistently,

962
00:52:57,076 --> 00:53:02,716
Speaker 1: from like nineteen ninety two. It's mysterious to me that

963
00:53:02,716 --> 00:53:05,316
Speaker 1: that I was able to make music just as colorful

964
00:53:05,396 --> 00:53:12,396
Speaker 1: and and emotional and shapely and all these things without it.

965
00:53:12,956 --> 00:53:16,396
Speaker 1: And I can only say that even though I don't

966
00:53:16,436 --> 00:53:20,156
Speaker 1: see the visuals like I did, they must be there

967
00:53:20,276 --> 00:53:24,156
Speaker 1: just below the level of consciousness, because the effect of

968
00:53:24,196 --> 00:53:27,516
Speaker 1: what that did remained with me. When you could see it.

969
00:53:27,636 --> 00:53:32,836
Speaker 1: Maybe it was almost like training wheels, like it had

970
00:53:32,876 --> 00:53:36,716
Speaker 1: to be that clear for whatever it was that was

971
00:53:36,756 --> 00:53:39,236
Speaker 1: showing it to you for you to be able to

972
00:53:39,276 --> 00:53:44,836
Speaker 1: see it, and then once you built the ability to

973
00:53:45,156 --> 00:53:50,076
Speaker 1: see it, you could still see it without the visual there. Right. Yeah,

974
00:53:50,116 --> 00:53:52,236
Speaker 1: it seems to me that that is that that is

975
00:53:52,276 --> 00:53:55,596
Speaker 1: what happened. And I'm sure there are people who just

976
00:53:55,716 --> 00:53:58,476
Speaker 1: go on seeing it their whole lives, but it didn't

977
00:53:58,476 --> 00:54:00,476
Speaker 1: work that way for me. But yeah, there are a

978
00:54:00,516 --> 00:54:03,996
Speaker 1: lot of ideas, don't you get it safe. For instance,

979
00:54:04,516 --> 00:54:07,116
Speaker 1: you're looking through movies, you're thinking of watching a movie

980
00:54:07,596 --> 00:54:13,076
Speaker 1: and you look through your DVD collection. There's nothing, nothing's

981
00:54:13,116 --> 00:54:15,316
Speaker 1: leaping out at you all of a sudden, one DVD

982
00:54:15,756 --> 00:54:18,036
Speaker 1: that's the one you want to watch. Yes, what happens

983
00:54:18,036 --> 00:54:20,916
Speaker 1: in your head at that moment? I would say it's

984
00:54:21,316 --> 00:54:25,836
Speaker 1: it's a feeling of the energy in my body raises.

985
00:54:26,196 --> 00:54:29,836
Speaker 1: It's similar to when we're playing in the studio and

986
00:54:29,956 --> 00:54:33,236
Speaker 1: it goes from a okay take to a great take.

987
00:54:33,396 --> 00:54:37,196
Speaker 1: There's this feeling of just like I feel this lift

988
00:54:37,236 --> 00:54:40,276
Speaker 1: of energy in my body that makes me want to

989
00:54:41,356 --> 00:54:44,076
Speaker 1: sometimes makes me want to laugh. Sometimes it makes me

990
00:54:44,076 --> 00:54:47,916
Speaker 1: want to lean forward and like listen closer. I would

991
00:54:47,916 --> 00:54:51,916
Speaker 1: say it's interest. It's like you could be sitting around

992
00:54:51,956 --> 00:54:57,196
Speaker 1: and like mindlessly not thinking, and then something grabs my attention.

993
00:54:58,436 --> 00:55:00,676
Speaker 1: Nothing changed, volumes, not any louder, you know. It's like

994
00:55:00,676 --> 00:55:03,316
Speaker 1: it's not like the music came on. Music has been

995
00:55:03,316 --> 00:55:06,196
Speaker 1: playing for hours, but all of a sudden, like my

996
00:55:06,316 --> 00:55:11,516
Speaker 1: attention gets drawn to this thing, right, and it's this

997
00:55:11,636 --> 00:55:13,596
Speaker 1: wave of energy, I guess is the way to say

998
00:55:13,636 --> 00:55:17,796
Speaker 1: it right and see for me, that's a part of it.

999
00:55:17,836 --> 00:55:21,436
Speaker 1: But another part of it is there's something that presents

1000
00:55:21,476 --> 00:55:24,036
Speaker 1: itself to my mind that it's as if it's a

1001
00:55:24,036 --> 00:55:28,076
Speaker 1: condensed form of the feeling of that thing. Yeah. So

1002
00:55:28,156 --> 00:55:32,356
Speaker 1: like if if I'm looking through my movies and good

1003
00:55:32,356 --> 00:55:35,436
Speaker 1: Fellas is the movie I want to watch, the feeling

1004
00:55:35,476 --> 00:55:39,836
Speaker 1: of good Fellas comes over me in my head. Before

1005
00:55:40,036 --> 00:55:41,876
Speaker 1: when I saw things visually, that would have been a

1006
00:55:41,996 --> 00:55:47,196
Speaker 1: much more extreme like somehow visual concoction that that I

1007
00:55:47,236 --> 00:55:50,316
Speaker 1: literally see. But in this case, I don't see it,

1008
00:55:50,356 --> 00:55:53,076
Speaker 1: but I feel it in my brain. Yes, I'm going

1009
00:55:53,156 --> 00:55:57,116
Speaker 1: to next time that I'm choosing something to watch, I'm

1010
00:55:57,116 --> 00:55:59,316
Speaker 1: going to really pay attention to what's going on in

1011
00:55:59,356 --> 00:56:02,836
Speaker 1: my body to try to understand what I'm feeling. You know,

1012
00:56:02,916 --> 00:56:05,236
Speaker 1: I know, I know the feeling of where I get excited.

1013
00:56:05,276 --> 00:56:08,396
Speaker 1: Oh there it is, yeah, that feeling. Yeah, I'm going

1014
00:56:08,476 --> 00:56:11,636
Speaker 1: to try to tune into that more. It's interesting that

1015
00:56:11,676 --> 00:56:14,836
Speaker 1: you say in my body, because it's just for me.

1016
00:56:14,916 --> 00:56:17,196
Speaker 1: It's more like it's more my head. Yeah, for me,

1017
00:56:17,276 --> 00:56:20,596
Speaker 1: it's not. It's definitely not in my head, right, It's

1018
00:56:20,636 --> 00:56:25,116
Speaker 1: not a thinking thing for me. It's a whole body

1019
00:56:25,316 --> 00:56:30,476
Speaker 1: feeling draw interesting. Yeah, yeah, so that's what makes me

1020
00:56:30,556 --> 00:56:33,316
Speaker 1: think it's still leftover. Simple things like that. When I'm

1021
00:56:33,356 --> 00:56:36,156
Speaker 1: looking through my record collection, I see the record that

1022
00:56:36,196 --> 00:56:38,396
Speaker 1: I want to hear, the feeling of that record is

1023
00:56:38,436 --> 00:56:41,196
Speaker 1: produced in my head as if in one moment, I

1024
00:56:41,236 --> 00:56:45,636
Speaker 1: were feeling the entire listening experience of listening to that record,

1025
00:56:45,676 --> 00:56:51,996
Speaker 1: the sum of that, where each any aspect of it

1026
00:56:52,036 --> 00:56:56,316
Speaker 1: contains the whole. Yeah. Yeah. So so that ends up

1027
00:56:56,756 --> 00:56:59,436
Speaker 1: relating to what we were talking about in terms of

1028
00:57:00,276 --> 00:57:03,316
Speaker 1: when Fleet plays a bassline, I see in my head,

1029
00:57:04,156 --> 00:57:06,916
Speaker 1: what would be the counter to that, what would be

1030
00:57:06,996 --> 00:57:11,116
Speaker 1: the balancer to that? Where the holes in that and

1031
00:57:11,516 --> 00:57:13,476
Speaker 1: I see a picture of it in my head of

1032
00:57:13,556 --> 00:57:17,796
Speaker 1: what would balance his baseline, and I just start playing,

1033
00:57:17,836 --> 00:57:21,516
Speaker 1: and that balance is what I play. So I'm not

1034
00:57:21,916 --> 00:57:25,676
Speaker 1: thinking of notes in advance, but sometimes I do. But

1035
00:57:25,716 --> 00:57:27,836
Speaker 1: it's in that way that I that I was saying,

1036
00:57:27,836 --> 00:57:31,676
Speaker 1: where like I see them, but it's faster than real time.

1037
00:57:31,716 --> 00:57:34,196
Speaker 1: I see the whole pattern that I'm going to repeat

1038
00:57:34,316 --> 00:57:38,756
Speaker 1: in an instant. You know, we're only really taking note

1039
00:57:38,756 --> 00:57:41,116
Speaker 1: of what's happening consciously all the time. But I think

1040
00:57:41,796 --> 00:57:44,716
Speaker 1: just as much as dreams are this world that we

1041
00:57:44,756 --> 00:57:48,476
Speaker 1: don't really understand, I think everything in life is that

1042
00:57:48,516 --> 00:57:53,396
Speaker 1: there's some sort of subconscious echo that's taking place to

1043
00:57:53,516 --> 00:57:56,356
Speaker 1: what we're seeing consciously. Absolutely, and I think what we're

1044
00:57:56,356 --> 00:58:00,676
Speaker 1: seeing consciously barely scratches the surface of what's going on. Yeah,

1045
00:58:00,836 --> 00:58:04,036
Speaker 1: there's too many data points. We can't take it all in. Yeah.

1046
00:58:04,076 --> 00:58:07,316
Speaker 1: And you know that period of time that I mentioned

1047
00:58:07,316 --> 00:58:09,756
Speaker 1: in the last show where I had months when I

1048
00:58:09,796 --> 00:58:13,276
Speaker 1: first got off drugs completely of just being kind of bored.

1049
00:58:13,956 --> 00:58:17,436
Speaker 1: During that period of time when nothing was happening, I

1050
00:58:17,516 --> 00:58:19,796
Speaker 1: was seeing the music that I might make with the

1051
00:58:19,796 --> 00:58:22,756
Speaker 1: band in my head. I guess in some cases I

1052
00:58:22,796 --> 00:58:25,316
Speaker 1: might have actually been hearing music in my head. But

1053
00:58:25,396 --> 00:58:28,556
Speaker 1: a lot of it was just the overall concept of

1054
00:58:28,556 --> 00:58:30,636
Speaker 1: the way that the things would relate to each other.

1055
00:58:30,756 --> 00:58:34,036
Speaker 1: And I'm just bored, like just sitting there, like not

1056
00:58:34,516 --> 00:58:40,076
Speaker 1: doing anything, not excited about life or anything. But oftentimes

1057
00:58:40,316 --> 00:58:44,276
Speaker 1: when there's nothing going on, You're subconscious reveals itself to

1058
00:58:44,316 --> 00:58:46,356
Speaker 1: you in these ways, Like that's the time when it

1059
00:58:46,396 --> 00:58:49,316
Speaker 1: does it. If you're constantly having information in front of

1060
00:58:49,316 --> 00:58:52,156
Speaker 1: you all the time, or constantly doing things to entertain

1061
00:58:52,196 --> 00:58:56,876
Speaker 1: yourself or to combat that. Yeah, like oftentimes you're not

1062
00:58:56,916 --> 00:58:59,956
Speaker 1: going to be able to be in touch with the

1063
00:59:00,036 --> 00:59:03,556
Speaker 1: subconscious that has its own movement and that has its

1064
00:59:03,556 --> 00:59:07,556
Speaker 1: own reality. And a lot of the time, it seems

1065
00:59:07,556 --> 00:59:10,316
Speaker 1: like in that particular case like period that I thought

1066
00:59:10,956 --> 00:59:13,516
Speaker 1: nothing was happening with me, my life was going nowhere,

1067
00:59:13,956 --> 00:59:18,436
Speaker 1: it actually had a huge effect on something very productive

1068
00:59:18,476 --> 00:59:20,876
Speaker 1: that I did, which was making that record. You know,

1069
00:59:21,076 --> 00:59:24,596
Speaker 1: would you describe it as a premonition, I guess so.

1070
00:59:24,716 --> 00:59:26,396
Speaker 1: I guess I've had a lot of a lot of

1071
00:59:26,396 --> 00:59:31,356
Speaker 1: those in my life. Like you can imagine something and

1072
00:59:31,396 --> 00:59:34,076
Speaker 1: then it ends up coming to pass. Yeah, Like I

1073
00:59:34,116 --> 00:59:37,516
Speaker 1: see something. Sometimes I see things and things that they

1074
00:59:37,516 --> 00:59:38,956
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with me, and then all of

1075
00:59:38,996 --> 00:59:40,756
Speaker 1: a sudden, I see the real thing, or I hear

1076
00:59:40,796 --> 00:59:43,476
Speaker 1: the real thing. I realized, Oh my god, I heard

1077
00:59:43,516 --> 00:59:46,796
Speaker 1: that in my head like ten years ago, Like that

1078
00:59:46,916 --> 00:59:48,596
Speaker 1: Dice album that you brought over to my house to

1079
00:59:48,716 --> 00:59:51,476
Speaker 1: day Laughter Died Part two. Yeah, there's moments on that

1080
00:59:51,476 --> 00:59:52,956
Speaker 1: that I swear I heard in my head when I

1081
00:59:52,996 --> 00:59:56,116
Speaker 1: was fourteen years old, like seven years before it came out.

1082
00:59:56,436 --> 00:59:58,676
Speaker 1: I know, I understand that feeling, because sometimes I'll hear

1083
00:59:58,756 --> 01:00:00,756
Speaker 1: something and they'll be and I know I've never heard before,

1084
01:00:00,836 --> 01:00:04,036
Speaker 1: or it wasn't even possibly here before. But there's such

1085
01:00:04,236 --> 01:00:08,116
Speaker 1: a feeling of remembrance when I'm listening to it, or

1086
01:00:08,236 --> 01:00:12,036
Speaker 1: just a sense of yeah, that's how it goes. Do

1087
01:00:12,036 --> 01:00:14,396
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like like I already know it, yeah,

1088
01:00:14,476 --> 01:00:17,396
Speaker 1: A knowing this. Yeah, there's and there's some kind of

1089
01:00:17,396 --> 01:00:24,036
Speaker 1: connection between memory and creativity. There's a connection between them. Yet,

1090
01:00:24,316 --> 01:00:27,396
Speaker 1: creating something new isn't the same thing as remembering something.

1091
01:00:28,076 --> 01:00:31,756
Speaker 1: But in some ways that's that's it's useful that it's

1092
01:00:31,836 --> 01:00:34,356
Speaker 1: not the same because we remember something and then we

1093
01:00:34,396 --> 01:00:35,956
Speaker 1: make it and then we realize that that's not what

1094
01:00:35,996 --> 01:00:38,636
Speaker 1: it was at all. It's like it is something new. Yeah,

1095
01:00:38,676 --> 01:00:41,676
Speaker 1: But there's a connection between the functions in the brain

1096
01:00:42,076 --> 01:00:46,076
Speaker 1: and it shows sometimes, Like the Beatles had that thing

1097
01:00:46,116 --> 01:00:48,276
Speaker 1: with Ringo. They would make fun of him because every

1098
01:00:48,276 --> 01:00:50,156
Speaker 1: time he tried to write a new song it was

1099
01:00:50,196 --> 01:00:53,116
Speaker 1: a song that already existed. He thought he was writing

1100
01:00:53,116 --> 01:00:55,396
Speaker 1: a new song, and they would start falling on the

1101
01:00:55,396 --> 01:00:58,596
Speaker 1: floor laughing because it was it was a Jerry Lee

1102
01:00:58,636 --> 01:01:00,876
Speaker 1: Lewis song or whatever, and he just didn't realize it was.

1103
01:01:01,316 --> 01:01:04,476
Speaker 1: And oftentimes, when when I get an idea for writing

1104
01:01:04,476 --> 01:01:07,396
Speaker 1: a song, it feels like I'm remembering something. It doesn't

1105
01:01:07,516 --> 01:01:11,116
Speaker 1: feel like I'm coming up with something new. What's turned

1106
01:01:11,116 --> 01:01:13,556
Speaker 1: out to be the most beneficial kind of practicing for

1107
01:01:13,636 --> 01:01:15,796
Speaker 1: me is that I'm just creating a sort of an

1108
01:01:15,876 --> 01:01:19,636
Speaker 1: encyclopedia of what has been done, yes, and that's all

1109
01:01:19,716 --> 01:01:22,916
Speaker 1: being stored in my subconscious I learned if I like

1110
01:01:23,036 --> 01:01:25,916
Speaker 1: a song, I learned how to play the guitar of it.

1111
01:01:25,996 --> 01:01:28,076
Speaker 1: I might even learn how to play the keyboard of

1112
01:01:28,076 --> 01:01:30,556
Speaker 1: it and the base of it. And this information is

1113
01:01:30,596 --> 01:01:33,916
Speaker 1: all stored in my head. So when I write, I'm

1114
01:01:33,996 --> 01:01:38,636
Speaker 1: drawing from that storeroom of all the stuff that of

1115
01:01:38,636 --> 01:01:42,596
Speaker 1: all the combinations that you've ever heard over the course

1116
01:01:42,596 --> 01:01:44,796
Speaker 1: of your life and that you get to a stage

1117
01:01:44,796 --> 01:01:46,436
Speaker 1: where Okay, I have this and I want to go

1118
01:01:46,476 --> 01:01:51,636
Speaker 1: to this, and there's somewhere and you, maybe conscious or unconscious, Yeah,

1119
01:01:52,156 --> 01:01:57,036
Speaker 1: like this sound, going to this sound feel satisfying. Yeah,

1120
01:01:57,076 --> 01:02:00,956
Speaker 1: And maybe that's because there's a something you heard twenty

1121
01:02:00,996 --> 01:02:04,076
Speaker 1: five years ago that you liked and lodged, but don't

1122
01:02:04,436 --> 01:02:07,196
Speaker 1: you know, don't remember the specifics of it. Yeah. Like

1123
01:02:07,276 --> 01:02:10,516
Speaker 1: if you eat a good meal, you feel satisfied. Yeah,

1124
01:02:10,556 --> 01:02:12,516
Speaker 1: and the same when you hear a good piece of music.

1125
01:02:12,756 --> 01:02:17,516
Speaker 1: There's this feeling of satisfaction. And you know, the different elements,

1126
01:02:17,556 --> 01:02:20,076
Speaker 1: all of the elements over the course of your life

1127
01:02:20,516 --> 01:02:23,996
Speaker 1: that have given you that feeling of satisfaction are all

1128
01:02:24,036 --> 01:02:26,836
Speaker 1: at your disposal to draw from. Whether you remember them

1129
01:02:26,916 --> 01:02:31,756
Speaker 1: or not, they're somehow in there. Yeah. They change us. Yeah.

1130
01:02:31,796 --> 01:02:34,676
Speaker 1: For me, that's the productive thing is just to have

1131
01:02:34,796 --> 01:02:37,596
Speaker 1: them all in there. And you're like doing this mixing

1132
01:02:37,636 --> 01:02:41,196
Speaker 1: and matching thing. It's really more you're subconscious doing it

1133
01:02:41,196 --> 01:02:44,076
Speaker 1: because like, for instance, like we were talking about under

1134
01:02:44,076 --> 01:02:46,876
Speaker 1: the Bridge, like when Anthony had that vocal and I

1135
01:02:46,996 --> 01:02:49,996
Speaker 1: basically had the idea to just do something starting with

1136
01:02:50,076 --> 01:02:52,356
Speaker 1: them in a major key, just because what he was

1137
01:02:52,396 --> 01:02:54,996
Speaker 1: doing seemed sad, and I wanted to cheer it up

1138
01:02:54,996 --> 01:02:57,516
Speaker 1: a little bit, because, aside from it being soft, that

1139
01:02:57,596 --> 01:02:59,596
Speaker 1: was another aspect to it that was weird for us.

1140
01:02:59,716 --> 01:03:02,796
Speaker 1: Our music was generally uplifting. Yeah, and it was a

1141
01:03:02,836 --> 01:03:05,836
Speaker 1: sad song. Yeah. If I sang the melody of that song,

1142
01:03:06,276 --> 01:03:09,876
Speaker 1: you hear the chords in your subconscious you'd hear the

1143
01:03:09,916 --> 01:03:12,436
Speaker 1: melody now, you know, now that you know what it's

1144
01:03:12,436 --> 01:03:14,636
Speaker 1: supposed to be. But when he was first singing it,

1145
01:03:14,676 --> 01:03:17,356
Speaker 1: we didn't know it wasn't it wasn't super clear whether

1146
01:03:17,396 --> 01:03:21,636
Speaker 1: it was yeah, And so I know that that was

1147
01:03:21,716 --> 01:03:25,036
Speaker 1: my thought going into it, aside from the Jimi Hendricks thing,

1148
01:03:25,116 --> 01:03:28,436
Speaker 1: was just the thought like, let's lighten this up a

1149
01:03:28,436 --> 01:03:31,316
Speaker 1: little bit, you know, And when it moved to a

1150
01:03:31,356 --> 01:03:34,876
Speaker 1: minor key for the chorus of the song, and the

1151
01:03:34,916 --> 01:03:38,316
Speaker 1: idea to have that part start on the later than

1152
01:03:38,356 --> 01:03:41,436
Speaker 1: the one instead of the one I drew from this

1153
01:03:41,476 --> 01:03:44,316
Speaker 1: song that I knew in my head at that moment.

1154
01:03:44,356 --> 01:03:45,996
Speaker 1: I could have thought of any song, but I thought

1155
01:03:46,036 --> 01:03:48,036
Speaker 1: this would be a nice little moment to have this

1156
01:03:48,156 --> 01:03:50,556
Speaker 1: space right before the course, you know. In a lot

1157
01:03:50,596 --> 01:03:52,316
Speaker 1: of ways, That's why I think learning a lot of

1158
01:03:52,316 --> 01:03:55,956
Speaker 1: songs is really the only way to develop your skill

1159
01:03:55,996 --> 01:03:59,036
Speaker 1: doing it, because when it's happening, it's not like a

1160
01:03:59,196 --> 01:04:02,196
Speaker 1: skill that you you know how to use the hammer

1161
01:04:02,236 --> 01:04:05,076
Speaker 1: in this particular way, so you use it. The skill

1162
01:04:05,316 --> 01:04:09,516
Speaker 1: is like sort of giving your subconscious the ability to

1163
01:04:09,556 --> 01:04:11,156
Speaker 1: be able to offer you the right thing at the

1164
01:04:11,236 --> 01:04:13,876
Speaker 1: right time, yes, you know, and sometimes giving it and

1165
01:04:13,956 --> 01:04:18,156
Speaker 1: giving it loads of options to choose from, exactly loads

1166
01:04:18,196 --> 01:04:21,556
Speaker 1: of options. Do you remember the song that inspired you

1167
01:04:21,596 --> 01:04:23,636
Speaker 1: to want to put that in under the bridge? Right?

1168
01:04:23,796 --> 01:04:33,116
Speaker 1: Do you remember what it was? Yeah? Can you play it? Okay? So, um,

1169
01:04:33,276 --> 01:04:35,236
Speaker 1: do you mind if I play a whole verse and

1170
01:04:35,276 --> 01:04:38,756
Speaker 1: anything you want? I can do it instrumentally if it's

1171
01:04:38,756 --> 01:04:43,316
Speaker 1: no good that way, but but it seems I'm anything

1172
01:04:43,356 --> 01:04:47,836
Speaker 1: you want to play. It's fun. I'm gonna try this. Um.

1173
01:04:47,836 --> 01:05:10,476
Speaker 1: So that Joe Jackson song goes one to f The

1174
01:05:10,836 --> 01:05:21,956
Speaker 1: guy who knows upstairs is a nator. They say, maybe

1175
01:05:21,996 --> 01:05:32,796
Speaker 1: words the same. He changed his name because someone with

1176
01:05:33,436 --> 01:05:44,596
Speaker 1: the same name made it first. His girlfriend comes to stay.

1177
01:05:45,596 --> 01:05:54,396
Speaker 1: We hear her screams and think that they rehearse. So

1178
01:05:54,756 --> 01:06:14,236
Speaker 1: maybe a play and maybe someone's really geting you prown

1179
01:06:14,836 --> 01:06:24,596
Speaker 1: every home town every na souse, every fair dealing, every

1180
01:06:25,156 --> 01:06:46,196
Speaker 1: good job, every swaming, every dream night. Okay, now I'm

1181
01:06:46,196 --> 01:06:51,476
Speaker 1: just gonna play it once, just guitar one, two, three,

1182
01:06:51,596 --> 01:07:24,796
Speaker 1: four one. Is it that long? Yeah, it's a long,

1183
01:07:25,396 --> 01:07:29,876
Speaker 1: long break. Yeah. It's also interesting the phrasing the bum

1184
01:07:29,876 --> 01:07:34,516
Speaker 1: bum bum after space sounds like it's answering something. It

1185
01:07:34,556 --> 01:07:38,116
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like it's saying something. Yeah, that's that's the

1186
01:07:38,116 --> 01:07:40,236
Speaker 1: way that that chorus generally goes. With his, it's a

1187
01:07:40,276 --> 01:07:44,956
Speaker 1: long um, it's just a stop and then goes into

1188
01:07:44,996 --> 01:07:51,516
Speaker 1: the chorus. But with ours, it's uh, it's a sustain right, yeah, yeah,

1189
01:07:51,556 --> 01:07:55,636
Speaker 1: we hold, we hold the chord which came from this

1190
01:07:56,356 --> 01:07:59,636
Speaker 1: which even that in itself came from another song. There's

1191
01:07:59,676 --> 01:08:02,156
Speaker 1: this t Rex song called rip Off that goes like

1192
01:08:02,476 --> 01:08:05,116
Speaker 1: it's funny. It's called It's funny, it's called I Really

1193
01:08:05,396 --> 01:08:07,156
Speaker 1: at the time that was a joke in my mind,

1194
01:08:07,236 --> 01:08:09,116
Speaker 1: like it would be cool if I ripped off rip off.

1195
01:08:09,516 --> 01:08:12,556
Speaker 1: But yeah, like it has this cycle in the verse

1196
01:08:12,636 --> 01:08:33,836
Speaker 1: that goes like uh hm, so, so I always thought

1197
01:08:33,916 --> 01:08:37,396
Speaker 1: that was cool that the verse had this break in

1198
01:08:37,436 --> 01:08:40,276
Speaker 1: it where the guitar just played this major seven chord.

1199
01:08:40,916 --> 01:08:43,236
Speaker 1: So in ours, when we got to the end of

1200
01:08:43,276 --> 01:08:51,316
Speaker 1: the to the to the verse and that's the happy verse. Yeah.

1201
01:08:51,756 --> 01:08:53,836
Speaker 1: And then when he got to the end of the singing,

1202
01:08:53,916 --> 01:08:58,156
Speaker 1: rather than just going straight into the chorus, when we

1203
01:08:58,156 --> 01:09:10,596
Speaker 1: went and then the Joe Jason Yeah, but instead of

1204
01:09:10,596 --> 01:09:21,156
Speaker 1: doing that, I went it sounds more to me that

1205
01:09:21,156 --> 01:09:25,756
Speaker 1: that sounds more introspective than the verse did. Yeah. Yeah,

1206
01:09:25,836 --> 01:09:28,516
Speaker 1: like like it was almost like in the in the

1207
01:09:28,556 --> 01:09:32,996
Speaker 1: writing of that song, we we brought in the darkness gradually,

1208
01:09:33,076 --> 01:09:44,996
Speaker 1: like to me the end of the song that that's

1209
01:09:45,036 --> 01:09:47,836
Speaker 1: the darkest part of the song. Yeah, you know, like

1210
01:09:47,836 --> 01:09:51,716
Speaker 1: like that was the feeling to me when Anthony first

1211
01:09:52,436 --> 01:09:54,956
Speaker 1: brought it in, but you got to it instead of

1212
01:09:54,996 --> 01:09:59,996
Speaker 1: opening with exactly like like gradually, and which gave it

1213
01:10:00,036 --> 01:10:03,396
Speaker 1: the effect of somehow feeling triumphant rather than feeling like

1214
01:10:03,676 --> 01:10:06,076
Speaker 1: you or a release, some kind of a release, yeah,

1215
01:10:06,156 --> 01:10:08,796
Speaker 1: rather than feeling some kind of rather than it feeling

1216
01:10:08,836 --> 01:10:11,036
Speaker 1: like a down or it made the whole thing made

1217
01:10:11,036 --> 01:10:14,716
Speaker 1: it made the chorus felt like an uplifting thing. We

1218
01:10:15,076 --> 01:10:18,556
Speaker 1: had another song earlier on the first album that I

1219
01:10:18,556 --> 01:10:24,036
Speaker 1: did with them, knock Me Down, where that it was like,

1220
01:10:24,076 --> 01:10:31,836
Speaker 1: as I might not be in the right key, so

1221
01:10:37,156 --> 01:10:39,836
Speaker 1: we had. We had this thing that went major chord

1222
01:10:39,876 --> 01:10:42,036
Speaker 1: to minor chord, and it's just one of those things

1223
01:10:42,036 --> 01:10:44,476
Speaker 1: that I've not There's a lot there's certain songs in

1224
01:10:44,596 --> 01:10:48,316
Speaker 1: history where somebody does that where I just noticed that

1225
01:10:48,316 --> 01:10:51,956
Speaker 1: that that it's a good feeling, and uh, that's another

1226
01:10:51,996 --> 01:10:54,196
Speaker 1: thing I can't because I know how to play so

1227
01:10:54,236 --> 01:10:56,756
Speaker 1: many songs. I have things categorized in my head to

1228
01:10:56,796 --> 01:11:00,076
Speaker 1: where there's all these sort of chord progressions. There's a

1229
01:11:00,076 --> 01:11:02,756
Speaker 1: lot of songs that have similar chord progressions, and so

1230
01:11:02,796 --> 01:11:05,836
Speaker 1: I have them sort of on some level, maybe not

1231
01:11:05,876 --> 01:11:08,156
Speaker 1: to where I can just play them right off the bat,

1232
01:11:08,196 --> 01:11:12,436
Speaker 1: but they're the principles at work. Yeah, they're they're categorized

1233
01:11:12,476 --> 01:11:14,836
Speaker 1: in my head is being oh, that's that type of chord.

1234
01:11:14,876 --> 01:11:17,236
Speaker 1: It's rare that in a rock song from history, I

1235
01:11:17,276 --> 01:11:18,916
Speaker 1: would hear a chord progression that I would go, oh,

1236
01:11:18,956 --> 01:11:21,716
Speaker 1: that that doesn't fall into any category, you know, but

1237
01:11:21,756 --> 01:11:25,316
Speaker 1: there are some, especially in progressive rocks and stuff. So yeah,

1238
01:11:25,396 --> 01:11:28,156
Speaker 1: like under the Bridge was just another attempt at doing

1239
01:11:28,196 --> 01:11:33,076
Speaker 1: the major to minor chord but taking time with it.

1240
01:11:33,156 --> 01:11:35,756
Speaker 1: And I think Beatles did that too, know, the major

1241
01:11:35,796 --> 01:11:38,956
Speaker 1: to the minor. I'm sure they Yeah, they definitely did. Like,

1242
01:11:39,516 --> 01:11:41,756
Speaker 1: like let's see, I was playing along in one the

1243
01:11:41,796 --> 01:11:45,236
Speaker 1: other A lot of the time it's like they already

1244
01:11:45,236 --> 01:11:48,076
Speaker 1: went to a F chord, say Laren C, and then

1245
01:11:48,116 --> 01:11:51,636
Speaker 1: they went to an F and then and then they

1246
01:11:51,676 --> 01:11:53,436
Speaker 1: went back to C. And then next time they do

1247
01:11:53,476 --> 01:11:59,796
Speaker 1: an F it's minor, and all of a sudden, that

1248
01:11:59,836 --> 01:12:01,676
Speaker 1: gives you a different feeling, like it's a chord you've

1249
01:12:01,676 --> 01:12:03,876
Speaker 1: already heard as a major chord, but then the second

1250
01:12:03,876 --> 01:12:06,956
Speaker 1: time they go to it, it's a it's a minor

1251
01:12:07,036 --> 01:12:11,276
Speaker 1: chord and it changes. Yeah. We'll be right back with

1252
01:12:11,316 --> 01:12:13,916
Speaker 1: the rest of John F. Shaunte and Rick Rubin's conversation.

1253
01:12:14,356 --> 01:12:21,196
Speaker 1: After a quick break, we're back with Rick Rubin and

1254
01:12:21,276 --> 01:12:24,076
Speaker 1: John F. SHAWNTA. Can you think of any songs that

1255
01:12:24,476 --> 01:12:28,636
Speaker 1: from the exercise that you showed earlier of the notes

1256
01:12:28,676 --> 01:12:31,916
Speaker 1: and rhythm? Yeah, any songs that you've written that have

1257
01:12:32,076 --> 01:12:36,956
Speaker 1: come from something related to that notes and rhythm technique? No,

1258
01:12:37,196 --> 01:12:40,556
Speaker 1: definitely can't. Like I said, I really I think of practicing.

1259
01:12:41,316 --> 01:12:43,916
Speaker 1: You think if it's separate, it's completely separate. I'm not

1260
01:12:43,996 --> 01:12:46,436
Speaker 1: trying to connect the two things. I do know that

1261
01:12:46,956 --> 01:12:50,396
Speaker 1: when I'm playing on stage it's not going to stop

1262
01:12:50,436 --> 01:12:52,796
Speaker 1: me from doing a certain thing that I want to

1263
01:12:52,836 --> 01:12:54,516
Speaker 1: do in my solo. If all of a sudden I

1264
01:12:54,556 --> 01:12:58,956
Speaker 1: have to do upstrokes and accent those rather than accenting

1265
01:12:58,996 --> 01:13:02,156
Speaker 1: the down strokes, like I'll be able to say whatever

1266
01:13:02,196 --> 01:13:04,276
Speaker 1: that thing is I wanted to say. Or if I

1267
01:13:04,316 --> 01:13:06,756
Speaker 1: want to fit a strange amount of notes in the bar,

1268
01:13:06,836 --> 01:13:09,036
Speaker 1: if I want to do if I want to fit

1269
01:13:09,196 --> 01:13:11,876
Speaker 1: seven notes into the four four instead of eight notes

1270
01:13:11,996 --> 01:13:15,036
Speaker 1: or whatever, like it's natural for me to do that.

1271
01:13:15,556 --> 01:13:18,116
Speaker 1: But other than that, I figure it just it gets

1272
01:13:18,156 --> 01:13:21,436
Speaker 1: in there somehow, But I don't know how for sure. Okay,

1273
01:13:21,436 --> 01:13:23,756
Speaker 1: this is a good question based on that, you want

1274
01:13:23,756 --> 01:13:26,356
Speaker 1: to get seven notes into a four you're doing a solo.

1275
01:13:27,196 --> 01:13:32,036
Speaker 1: What happens you're hearing the music, you start the solo,

1276
01:13:33,436 --> 01:13:37,116
Speaker 1: what dictates what where the next note? It goes like

1277
01:13:37,556 --> 01:13:43,316
Speaker 1: what's happening? Yeah, no, it's yeah, Like like I'm like,

1278
01:13:43,396 --> 01:13:46,876
Speaker 1: you can explain it after why yeah, but not in

1279
01:13:46,916 --> 01:13:52,036
Speaker 1: the moment? Yeah, no, time. Yeah. I think of it

1280
01:13:52,076 --> 01:13:55,036
Speaker 1: as you're placing yourself in a few points in time

1281
01:13:55,076 --> 01:13:58,196
Speaker 1: at the same time. Like I think if you can

1282
01:13:58,236 --> 01:14:00,116
Speaker 1: do all three of those things at once, be in

1283
01:14:00,156 --> 01:14:04,276
Speaker 1: the past, being the present, and be in the future. Yeah,

1284
01:14:04,316 --> 01:14:07,356
Speaker 1: that that's something like the ideal frame of mind to

1285
01:14:07,476 --> 01:14:09,516
Speaker 1: be to have some kind of a preconcept and about

1286
01:14:09,556 --> 01:14:12,556
Speaker 1: what you're about to do. Yes, to be in the moment,

1287
01:14:12,596 --> 01:14:15,356
Speaker 1: listening to what everybody else is doing right right in

1288
01:14:15,396 --> 01:14:19,956
Speaker 1: the moment at every point, and also listening to what's

1289
01:14:19,956 --> 01:14:23,036
Speaker 1: just happened. Yeah, I think it's It involves like a

1290
01:14:23,076 --> 01:14:25,996
Speaker 1: balancing of sort of being in those three points in

1291
01:14:26,036 --> 01:14:28,996
Speaker 1: time at the same time. If a lot of the

1292
01:14:28,996 --> 01:14:32,716
Speaker 1: time you're only able to listen to what's just happened

1293
01:14:32,716 --> 01:14:34,716
Speaker 1: and you're just judging it every step of the way,

1294
01:14:34,756 --> 01:14:38,476
Speaker 1: you're just going, oh, that sucked, Oh that was terrible, wow,

1295
01:14:38,676 --> 01:14:42,436
Speaker 1: like and you can't get out. Yeah it's bad. That's

1296
01:14:42,436 --> 01:14:44,916
Speaker 1: what it's like. When I'm having a bad show. I'm

1297
01:14:44,916 --> 01:14:47,756
Speaker 1: just listening to what's already happened. I don't have any

1298
01:14:47,796 --> 01:14:50,596
Speaker 1: idea of what I'm about to do, not in the moment.

1299
01:14:51,316 --> 01:14:54,276
Speaker 1: I'm listening to what's already come out, and I'm judging it.

1300
01:14:54,596 --> 01:14:58,196
Speaker 1: I see. But ideally you're in a balance between between

1301
01:14:58,236 --> 01:15:00,636
Speaker 1: those three points in time. How often does that happen? Though?

1302
01:15:00,716 --> 01:15:02,876
Speaker 1: Bad show like for you, a bad show like that

1303
01:15:03,196 --> 01:15:05,916
Speaker 1: I feel like that doesn't I've never seen that, but

1304
01:15:05,956 --> 01:15:09,516
Speaker 1: how you probably have seen me. Really. I remember even

1305
01:15:09,556 --> 01:15:12,276
Speaker 1: when we were doing the basic tracks to Stadium. I

1306
01:15:12,396 --> 01:15:14,356
Speaker 1: was kind of in that state of mind while we

1307
01:15:14,356 --> 01:15:16,516
Speaker 1: were doing the basic tracks for a week or two,

1308
01:15:17,196 --> 01:15:20,436
Speaker 1: and you just kept telling me, like I kept telling

1309
01:15:20,476 --> 01:15:23,156
Speaker 1: you what I was experiencing, that everything's sounding bad to me,

1310
01:15:23,196 --> 01:15:26,956
Speaker 1: and you were like, you're playing great, sounds great, you know,

1311
01:15:27,636 --> 01:15:30,756
Speaker 1: but but like so, it's just the it's your interpretation

1312
01:15:30,796 --> 01:15:34,116
Speaker 1: of what's happening. It's what's happening inside. It's yeah, I

1313
01:15:34,156 --> 01:15:36,276
Speaker 1: was judging everything as I was doing. It was so

1314
01:15:36,316 --> 01:15:38,036
Speaker 1: important to me to play in a certain way that

1315
01:15:38,076 --> 01:15:40,516
Speaker 1: I wanted to play on that record. I was trying

1316
01:15:40,516 --> 01:15:42,836
Speaker 1: to have a little more of the looseness of lives

1317
01:15:42,836 --> 01:15:45,796
Speaker 1: than I'd had on any of our records before, and

1318
01:15:45,836 --> 01:15:49,156
Speaker 1: the energy of the live playing. And I think I'd

1319
01:15:49,156 --> 01:15:51,796
Speaker 1: put too much pressure on myself to where most of

1320
01:15:51,796 --> 01:15:54,076
Speaker 1: the records float out really nicely. But the first week

1321
01:15:54,196 --> 01:15:57,796
Speaker 1: or two I was experiencing a really negative thing where

1322
01:15:58,196 --> 01:16:02,116
Speaker 1: I was just judging every moment as it happened successively,

1323
01:16:02,276 --> 01:16:05,716
Speaker 1: and I wasn't able to get into the groove. I

1324
01:16:05,756 --> 01:16:07,716
Speaker 1: wasn't able to anticipate it. I wasn't able to be

1325
01:16:07,756 --> 01:16:10,156
Speaker 1: in the moment. And what do you think shifted it?

1326
01:16:10,276 --> 01:16:11,836
Speaker 1: Because he said it was for the first few weeks

1327
01:16:11,916 --> 01:16:15,476
Speaker 1: the meditation thing I did, Yeah, because there was a

1328
01:16:15,516 --> 01:16:18,196
Speaker 1: bad feeling in my stomach that was associated with the

1329
01:16:18,236 --> 01:16:23,236
Speaker 1: mental state. And I did a guided meditation with somebody.

1330
01:16:23,916 --> 01:16:26,316
Speaker 1: First I meditated on this thing in my stomach, and

1331
01:16:26,356 --> 01:16:29,796
Speaker 1: then I meditated on He said, there's a secondary part

1332
01:16:29,956 --> 01:16:33,636
Speaker 1: where where you're feeling a similar kind of unease, similar

1333
01:16:33,716 --> 01:16:36,316
Speaker 1: kind of pain. Try to figure out. Let's get off

1334
01:16:36,356 --> 01:16:38,916
Speaker 1: the phone and figure out where in your body is that.

1335
01:16:39,276 --> 01:16:41,236
Speaker 1: And I found that it was this spot right here,

1336
01:16:41,356 --> 01:16:45,836
Speaker 1: just my wrist. On the opposite side is the palm

1337
01:16:45,876 --> 01:16:49,516
Speaker 1: of my hand, yeah, and back of the left wrist. Yeah.

1338
01:16:49,476 --> 01:16:52,276
Speaker 1: It might have been both risk but it was very subtle.

1339
01:16:52,316 --> 01:16:53,996
Speaker 1: I would have never even noticed that there was a

1340
01:16:53,996 --> 01:16:56,476
Speaker 1: feeling there, But when I tried to separate myself from

1341
01:16:56,476 --> 01:16:59,396
Speaker 1: the feeling in my stomach, it was there. And so

1342
01:16:59,476 --> 01:17:01,556
Speaker 1: I meditated on that for a long time, and then

1343
01:17:01,756 --> 01:17:03,196
Speaker 1: I got on the phone with him again, and then

1344
01:17:03,236 --> 01:17:06,076
Speaker 1: he said, there's a third point. You know. I can't

1345
01:17:06,076 --> 01:17:08,636
Speaker 1: remember what it was, but I want to what maybe

1346
01:17:08,636 --> 01:17:11,436
Speaker 1: it was the road or something, whatever it was, And

1347
01:17:11,556 --> 01:17:15,276
Speaker 1: eventually a whole explosion of thoughts came out about a

1348
01:17:15,316 --> 01:17:20,116
Speaker 1: friendship that I'd had when I was young that went bad. Wow.

1349
01:17:20,236 --> 01:17:22,516
Speaker 1: That was followed by a period of time of me

1350
01:17:22,596 --> 01:17:25,516
Speaker 1: intensely trying to play guitar in a way that impressed people.

1351
01:17:26,116 --> 01:17:28,356
Speaker 1: And the way I intended to play on that record

1352
01:17:28,436 --> 01:17:31,996
Speaker 1: had a connection with that point in time. That's what

1353
01:17:32,036 --> 01:17:35,356
Speaker 1: I was lodged in your body, Yeah, and so I'd

1354
01:17:35,396 --> 01:17:38,756
Speaker 1: some the thing up in that way. All of a sudden,

1355
01:17:38,876 --> 01:17:41,916
Speaker 1: all these memories came back of this friendship that went

1356
01:17:42,036 --> 01:17:46,036
Speaker 1: bad and the desire to impress people that was followed.

1357
01:17:46,116 --> 01:17:48,796
Speaker 1: Like before that, I was just more already just being creative.

1358
01:17:48,916 --> 01:17:51,236
Speaker 1: After that, I had a determined thing like I'm going

1359
01:17:51,276 --> 01:17:53,436
Speaker 1: to play in a way that's going to impress people,

1360
01:17:53,436 --> 01:17:55,076
Speaker 1: and that nobody's going to be able to tell me

1361
01:17:55,116 --> 01:17:57,596
Speaker 1: I'm not a good guitar player, and all this stuff like,

1362
01:17:57,836 --> 01:18:01,116
Speaker 1: which isn't possible. Like I've heard the people talk shit

1363
01:18:01,196 --> 01:18:04,596
Speaker 1: about the greatest guitar players ever, whether it's Jimmy Hendricks,

1364
01:18:04,676 --> 01:18:07,996
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page, Alan Holdsworth, that Evan Helen, Like I've heard

1365
01:18:08,436 --> 01:18:11,116
Speaker 1: loads of people say that they're bad guitarists, you know,

1366
01:18:11,236 --> 01:18:13,356
Speaker 1: like so you can't escape it. So I don't advise

1367
01:18:13,396 --> 01:18:16,836
Speaker 1: anybody to every Also, if you have that, if you're

1368
01:18:16,876 --> 01:18:19,676
Speaker 1: doing something new or going out on a limb, if

1369
01:18:19,716 --> 01:18:24,836
Speaker 1: you're really going forward, there are always people who resist. Yes, yeah,

1370
01:18:25,036 --> 01:18:27,796
Speaker 1: they have no context for it. Yeah. So with everything

1371
01:18:27,796 --> 01:18:30,676
Speaker 1: I'd learned about making music for how it sounds and

1372
01:18:30,756 --> 01:18:33,436
Speaker 1: going with your feelings and supporting the your bandmates and

1373
01:18:33,516 --> 01:18:35,556
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, when we went in the

1374
01:18:35,636 --> 01:18:39,316
Speaker 1: studio to do Stadium, I was just kind of like

1375
01:18:39,956 --> 01:18:41,876
Speaker 1: I had this idea that I was going to play

1376
01:18:41,916 --> 01:18:44,316
Speaker 1: in a way that was going to draw more attention

1377
01:18:44,396 --> 01:18:47,596
Speaker 1: to the guitar playing, and I think I really had

1378
01:18:47,636 --> 01:18:49,116
Speaker 1: to get my ego out of the way of it.

1379
01:18:49,796 --> 01:18:52,876
Speaker 1: Like I feel like that's where the conflict came from,

1380
01:18:53,396 --> 01:18:56,396
Speaker 1: that caused the pain. Yeah, I had to reel it

1381
01:18:56,476 --> 01:18:59,476
Speaker 1: in a little bit and just get inside the feeling

1382
01:18:59,556 --> 01:19:04,036
Speaker 1: of the songs and not worry about like the playing

1383
01:19:04,076 --> 01:19:05,916
Speaker 1: in a more flashy wave was going to have to

1384
01:19:06,036 --> 01:19:09,556
Speaker 1: just come naturally, couldn't. I had to get that because

1385
01:19:09,596 --> 01:19:12,356
Speaker 1: that's kind of what you're doing anytime that you're that

1386
01:19:12,476 --> 01:19:15,116
Speaker 1: you're thinking of a reaction that you want from people,

1387
01:19:15,156 --> 01:19:18,436
Speaker 1: separate from the feeling. It's just it never works. Yeah,

1388
01:19:18,476 --> 01:19:22,396
Speaker 1: it doesn't work. And so so that's where I had

1389
01:19:22,516 --> 01:19:25,876
Speaker 1: some intelligent part of me telling myself, you know this,

1390
01:19:26,876 --> 01:19:28,836
Speaker 1: you can't go down this path. So it was a

1391
01:19:29,076 --> 01:19:32,436
Speaker 1: little conflict. But once I had that memory and saw

1392
01:19:32,596 --> 01:19:35,636
Speaker 1: the relationship between those two things, losing that friend and

1393
01:19:36,716 --> 01:19:40,596
Speaker 1: focusing on being impressive to other people, I was able

1394
01:19:40,676 --> 01:19:43,636
Speaker 1: to go back into the record with my stomach feeling relaxed,

1395
01:19:43,756 --> 01:19:46,276
Speaker 1: with being able to be completely in the moment, without

1396
01:19:46,316 --> 01:19:48,516
Speaker 1: worrying about what people were going to think of it

1397
01:19:48,676 --> 01:19:53,996
Speaker 1: or anything, and just doing what came naturally. Cool. Yeah,

1398
01:19:54,756 --> 01:19:56,756
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say if we want to start talking

1399
01:19:56,836 --> 01:20:00,916
Speaker 1: about the other albums or whether it's better to stop

1400
01:20:01,076 --> 01:20:03,156
Speaker 1: and do another one, because I feel like, again, it's

1401
01:20:03,196 --> 01:20:06,076
Speaker 1: going to be long, and I feel like we've covered

1402
01:20:06,116 --> 01:20:08,956
Speaker 1: a lot of good ground. Now what do you think? Yeah,

1403
01:20:09,196 --> 01:20:11,436
Speaker 1: I'm and you're around for a few weeks, right, I'm

1404
01:20:11,516 --> 01:20:13,156
Speaker 1: here for a few weeks and we can do another

1405
01:20:13,196 --> 01:20:16,596
Speaker 1: one before I leave town. Oh okay in person? Sure,

1406
01:20:17,396 --> 01:20:20,076
Speaker 1: no mind coming out, not at all. Okay, great, because

1407
01:20:20,116 --> 01:20:22,436
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so much. Again, it's you know,

1408
01:20:22,556 --> 01:20:24,596
Speaker 1: I never know in the beginning, but once you start talking,

1409
01:20:24,636 --> 01:20:26,916
Speaker 1: it's like there's a lot to talk about. It's funny

1410
01:20:26,956 --> 01:20:31,556
Speaker 1: that we don't when we're working on stuff, there's not

1411
01:20:31,916 --> 01:20:35,756
Speaker 1: much talk of you know, we don't philosophy as much.

1412
01:20:35,876 --> 01:20:37,836
Speaker 1: We're you know, we have a job to do and

1413
01:20:37,876 --> 01:20:41,876
Speaker 1: we're focused on doing the job, so we rarely just

1414
01:20:42,236 --> 01:20:45,556
Speaker 1: talk about stuff. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, Well, thank you

1415
01:20:45,636 --> 01:20:48,476
Speaker 1: so much for doing this. Yeah. Again, always a pleasure

1416
01:20:48,556 --> 01:20:51,236
Speaker 1: talking to you. I always learned something's fun. Yeah, it's

1417
01:20:51,276 --> 01:20:53,356
Speaker 1: a lot of fun talking to you. Cool. So we

1418
01:20:53,436 --> 01:20:58,716
Speaker 1: do this again soon. Okay cool. Thanks to John F.

1419
01:20:58,796 --> 01:21:01,316
Speaker 1: Shante for stopping by. Shang a lot to chat with you.

1420
01:21:01,956 --> 01:21:03,596
Speaker 1: Be sure to keep an eye out on our feed

1421
01:21:03,716 --> 01:21:06,556
Speaker 1: for their next conversation. You can hear all of our

1422
01:21:06,596 --> 01:21:09,516
Speaker 1: favorite Chili pepper songs on my playlist at broke Record

1423
01:21:09,556 --> 01:21:12,636
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube

1424
01:21:12,716 --> 01:21:16,236
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. We

1425
01:21:16,356 --> 01:21:19,356
Speaker 1: can find all of our new episodes. You can follow

1426
01:21:19,436 --> 01:21:22,636
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record broken Record. It's produced

1427
01:21:22,636 --> 01:21:27,196
Speaker 1: with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Holiday, Eric Sandler,

1428
01:21:27,596 --> 01:21:32,116
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez, Our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive producer is

1429
01:21:32,236 --> 01:21:36,196
Speaker 1: Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

1430
01:21:36,676 --> 01:21:39,076
Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1431
01:21:39,156 --> 01:21:43,276
Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1432
01:21:43,396 --> 01:21:46,956
Speaker 1: that offers bonus content an uninterrupted, ad free listening for

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01:21:47,116 --> 01:21:50,036
Speaker 1: four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on

1434
01:21:50,116 --> 01:21:53,676
Speaker 1: Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like our show, please

1435
01:21:53,716 --> 01:21:56,636
Speaker 1: remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast staff.

1436
01:21:57,076 --> 01:21:59,836
Speaker 1: Our theme musics by Kenny Beats on Justin Richmond