WEBVTT - Bengals Booth Podcast: Pick Me Up

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading

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<v Speaker 1>The Bengals Booth Podcast ba SO Pick Me Up edition,

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<v Speaker 1>as I discussed the upcoming NFL Draft and other Bengals

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<v Speaker 1>related topics with Pro Football Focus analyst Dalton Wasserman. The

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<v Speaker 1>Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps,

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<v Speaker 1>Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by

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<v Speaker 1>Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home,

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<v Speaker 1>business and community to a new level, and by Kettering

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<v Speaker 1>Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health

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<v Speaker 1>is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's

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<v Speaker 1>a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition

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<v Speaker 1>of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or

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<v Speaker 1>computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>greatest thing since Matt Franco. I was in Las Vegas

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<v Speaker 1>this week for a college basketball tournament and had the

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to see magician Matt Franco. If you haven't heard

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<v Speaker 1>of him, he won America's Got Talent several years ago

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<v Speaker 1>and now has his own show called Magic Reinvented nightly

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<v Speaker 1>at The Link Hotel and casino on the Las Vegas Strip.

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<v Speaker 1>I love magicians, and I have seen a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the big names over the years, and this was the

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<v Speaker 1>best show I have ever seen with one how the

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<v Speaker 1>hell did he do that? Illusion? After another? If you

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<v Speaker 1>want to see what I mean, do a quick YouTube

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<v Speaker 1>search for Matt Franco. That's Matt with one T. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you travel to Las Vegas, by all means, go

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<v Speaker 1>see the show. And after you do, tell me how

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<v Speaker 1>he does the thing with the Ramen noodles. The NFL

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<v Speaker 1>Draft is less than three weeks away, making it a

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<v Speaker 1>great time to have Pro Football Focus analyst Dalton Wasserman

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<v Speaker 1>on the show. In addition to writing about the NFL,

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<v Speaker 1>Dalton co host the PFF College Football Show and has

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<v Speaker 1>great insight on players in this year's draft that the

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<v Speaker 1>Bengals are likely considering. He also caught my attention this

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<v Speaker 1>week with an article that had the Bengals ranked number

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<v Speaker 1>one of any team in the NFL. Taltony recently wrote

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<v Speaker 1>about the NFL teams that have done the best and

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<v Speaker 1>the worst in the first round of the draft of

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<v Speaker 1>the last five years, and the Bengals came out on top.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that time period begins with the Joe Burrow draft,

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<v Speaker 1>so I guess we shouldn't be surprised, but what do

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<v Speaker 1>you think of the five first round draft picks they've

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<v Speaker 1>made since twenty twenty overall?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, when you look at the statistics behind it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to come down to the fact that Joe

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<v Speaker 2>Burrow and Jamar It's Chase are obviously two of the

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<v Speaker 2>elite players in football. Right, So when you look at

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<v Speaker 2>something like PFF war I had split things up between

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<v Speaker 2>offensive and defensive PFF grades. At this time you're looking at, Okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>Burrow's been the second most valuable player per PFF four

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<v Speaker 2>and football behind Patrick Mahomes, and Jamar Chase is one

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<v Speaker 2>of the best receivers in football, so the stats are

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit tilted. They obviously could do a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit better job when it comes to drafting defensive players.

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll see about Amarius Mims, you know, going into

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<v Speaker 2>his second year on the offensive line and be a

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<v Speaker 2>huge help if he you know, got a lot better

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<v Speaker 2>this year at right tackle as well. I know that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, last year had some injuries and things to

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<v Speaker 2>start out, but I think it's exactly what represents the

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<v Speaker 2>Bengals right now is their offense between Burrow and Chase

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<v Speaker 2>and obviously te Higgins as well in the second round

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<v Speaker 2>the same year as Burrow.

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<v Speaker 3>They having a e leite.

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<v Speaker 2>Offense right and they have even some holes there that

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<v Speaker 2>they could still get better with with their interior offensive

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<v Speaker 2>line and even the running game. But defensively, as we

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<v Speaker 2>all know, you know, whether they keep Trey hendrickson or not,

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<v Speaker 2>and however, the rest of the defense is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be built with Al Golden running it. Now, they've got

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<v Speaker 2>to get better. I think it's obviously the Bengals. We

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<v Speaker 2>all know offensively they can beat anybody. Defensively lately, they

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<v Speaker 2>can get beat by anybody. That's kind of how it works,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's because they haven't had that much success throughout

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<v Speaker 2>the draft.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's circle back to last year's first round pick, A

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<v Speaker 1>Marius Mims. I think it's been popular among analysts, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of PFF people that I've talked to in recent

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<v Speaker 1>years to say that you don't necessarily have to be

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<v Speaker 1>great on the offensive line. The key is not to

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<v Speaker 1>have any huge liabilities. But I saw a clip from

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<v Speaker 1>another podcast you were on recently where you made the

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<v Speaker 1>case that elite pass protection is actually critical. Explain why

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<v Speaker 1>very much so.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean seven of the last eight Super Bowl champions

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<v Speaker 2>have ranked inside the top seven of our pass blocking grade, right, So,

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<v Speaker 2>it really it's coming down to more and more, especially

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<v Speaker 2>with the talent you know of edge rushers and even

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<v Speaker 2>defensive lineman. Now as you saw Philadelphia Eagles this year,

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<v Speaker 2>you have to be able to protect your quarterback in big,

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<v Speaker 2>big situations.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Teams with bad offensive lines are not winning Super Bowls anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>It's extremely hard, both in the past game and the

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<v Speaker 2>run game. Right we saw obviously the Eagles this year

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<v Speaker 2>have that balance. They had that balance of Saquon Barkley

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<v Speaker 2>in the run game too. But you talk about a

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<v Speaker 2>team like the Bengals, who I believe had the third

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<v Speaker 2>worst pass rushing grade as a team or sorry, pass

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<v Speaker 2>blocking grade as a team this year, You're just not

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<v Speaker 2>gonna win like that, right because you've got too many

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<v Speaker 2>teams that have too good of a pass rush as

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<v Speaker 2>well when you get into these big spots, when you

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<v Speaker 2>get into conference title games, when you get into the

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<v Speaker 2>Super Bowl. Right, So, I think it's something that really

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be improved. And obviously, are you going to

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<v Speaker 2>have five superstars, not necessarily, but if you're looking at

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<v Speaker 2>having a really good offensive line, you probably need something

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<v Speaker 2>like two superstars and then three solid players who can

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<v Speaker 2>fill the other three spots and at least be, say

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<v Speaker 2>by our standards, in the low sixty or in the

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<v Speaker 2>high sixties or low seventies. You're talking about it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be hard to have holes on the offensive line,

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<v Speaker 2>and you need to have better pass protection than they have.

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<v Speaker 2>So for as much as the talk has been about

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<v Speaker 2>the Bengals improving their defense, their on line, especially in

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<v Speaker 2>the interior, still needs improvement if they're going.

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<v Speaker 3>To go all the way.

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<v Speaker 1>Of those last five first round draft picks, Miles Murphy

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<v Speaker 1>is the guy who's probably the biggest question mark at

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<v Speaker 1>this point. I guess you could say Dak Sill because

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<v Speaker 1>of the injury, but he was playing really well before

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<v Speaker 1>he got hurt last year. What did you think of

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<v Speaker 1>Miles Murphy coming out of Clemson and should Bengals fans

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<v Speaker 1>anticipate a big step forward this year if he gets

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<v Speaker 1>more playing time.

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<v Speaker 3>You would hope so.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, coming out of Clemson, he was very raw, right,

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<v Speaker 2>You knew he always had a lot of potential at Clemson.

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<v Speaker 2>Never quite hit that peak, and that's why he went

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<v Speaker 2>later in the first round, more so because of his

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<v Speaker 2>talent than his production. And I mean, they could really

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<v Speaker 2>use they could really use that help off the edge now.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know there's been a lot of talk about

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<v Speaker 2>them drafting an edge rusher in the first round again

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, Murphy's had a slow start during the

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<v Speaker 2>first two years of his career. Plus you know, Trey

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<v Speaker 2>Hendrickson obviously on the trade block. But you know, Murphy,

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<v Speaker 2>it's tough to tell right now, just you just haven't

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<v Speaker 2>seen a big impact through his first two years. He

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<v Speaker 2>does have a lot of physical talent, but the polish

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<v Speaker 2>has to be there. And I think this is a

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<v Speaker 2>big make or break year for him as it comes to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, possibly being a starter, especially if Hendrickson gets traded.

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<v Speaker 2>They've got to figure out we already know this entire

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<v Speaker 2>defensive line, but Murphy has to play a much bigger

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<v Speaker 2>role than he has the first two years.

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<v Speaker 1>PFF analyst Dalton Loserman is our guest. I mentioned and

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<v Speaker 1>then that recent article about the first round draft picks,

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<v Speaker 1>you ranked the best and the worst teams. The Bengals

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<v Speaker 1>came out on top. The Raiders came out last prior

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<v Speaker 1>to the brock Bauers pick last year. It's almost comically

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<v Speaker 1>bad how lousy Las Vegas is drafted in the first round.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, even with brock Bauers involved.

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<v Speaker 2>You look at again PFF War and they were number

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<v Speaker 2>one on the bottom when it comes to PFF War

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<v Speaker 2>from the first round picks over the last five years.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's because obviously at Henry Ruggs who didn't work

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<v Speaker 2>out and had all field issue, same thing with Damon

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<v Speaker 2>Arnet at corner. Alex Bleatherwood was a reach at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>and Tyreek Wilson just hasn't been able to put it

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<v Speaker 2>together again. Kind of the same case as Miles Murphy.

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<v Speaker 2>Miles Murphy where he's an extremely talented pass rusher but

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't have the polish and hasn't put it all together yet. So,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, Bowers pick this past year obviously, but the

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<v Speaker 2>Raiders and that's why I look, they're picking in the

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<v Speaker 2>top eight again. They're still trying to figure it out,

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<v Speaker 2>especially on defense and other than Max Crosby. This past year,

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<v Speaker 2>the defense was a mess, right, especially in coverage, So

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<v Speaker 2>they're really trying to figure that out. And I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you see it you know, I look at the bottom

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<v Speaker 2>five teams here and you look at you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>Raiders haven't had much success the last five years. The

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<v Speaker 2>Tennessee Titans, and now they're picking first again because they

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<v Speaker 2>haven't had success in this draft. The Rams are an

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<v Speaker 2>exception because it was their first draft pick Jared Versus

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<v Speaker 2>the first first round draft pick since twenty sixteen. And

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<v Speaker 2>then the New Orleans Saints the same thing. They're picking

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<v Speaker 2>in the top ten and slowly declining as a team

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<v Speaker 2>because they haven't drafted well lately. So it's just, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you look at these teams, a lot of them that

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<v Speaker 2>are in the top eight to ten in this year's draft,

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<v Speaker 2>and you go, well, it makes a lot of sense

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<v Speaker 2>that they're struggling and they're picking near the top again

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<v Speaker 2>because they haven't drafted well in recent years.

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<v Speaker 3>You need those young players.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to find premier talent in the first round

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<v Speaker 2>to continue to get better.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's circle back to the Bengals offensive line, that blueprint

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<v Speaker 1>that you kind of describe ideally with a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>superstars and then three good guys as well. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if Orlando Brown Junior and Amrius Mims are superstars

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<v Speaker 1>at least not yet in Mems case, but they're very

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<v Speaker 1>solid at tackle. I don't think anybody would dispute that

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<v Speaker 1>Ted Kerris is a solid center. The guard spots are

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<v Speaker 1>the question mark. They have added Lucas Patrick in free agency,

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<v Speaker 1>but how high of a draft pick do you think

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<v Speaker 1>the Bengals should use on a guard.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a pretty good sweet spot on day

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<v Speaker 2>two between pick number forty nine and in the second round,

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<v Speaker 2>when you talk about maybe somebody like Donovan Jackson, if

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<v Speaker 2>a from Ohio State, if he were available. Maybe I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know that Tyler Booker will go that low, but

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<v Speaker 2>if Tyler Booker were ever available in the second round

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<v Speaker 2>at number forty.

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<v Speaker 3>Nine, you'd be looking pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>And then at number eighty one in the third round,

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<v Speaker 2>I think you're talking there a pretty good spot when

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<v Speaker 2>you talk about maybe a Tate Ratledge from Georgia, Luke

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<v Speaker 2>Candra from the you know locally here from the University

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<v Speaker 2>of Cincinnati, I think would be a good help. I

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<v Speaker 2>think rounds two through four for interior offensive lineman, whether

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<v Speaker 2>it be a guard or center, that's really gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>the sweet spot. I don't know that there's any first

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<v Speaker 2>rounders that would be worth the seventeenth overall pick. I

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't say so unless they feel like there's somebody that

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<v Speaker 2>could transfer from tackle to the interior. But more likely

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<v Speaker 2>rounds two through four would be a good spot. I

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<v Speaker 2>know this look, there's gonna be a lot of talk

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<v Speaker 2>about defense and needing to build a defense, but they

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<v Speaker 2>need to help on the interior offensive line. I think

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<v Speaker 2>forty nine, eighty one and one nineteen, where the Bengals

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<v Speaker 2>are looking at in rounds two through four, would be

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<v Speaker 2>a good spot to be looking for interior offensive linemen.

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<v Speaker 1>If they use one of those picks on a guard,

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<v Speaker 1>is that enough? Brandon Sheriff is still out there in

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<v Speaker 1>free agency? There are still some other names still out

0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.440
<v Speaker 1>there in free agency. What do you think draft a starter,

0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.720
<v Speaker 1>try to draft a starter and see what you've got,

0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.440
<v Speaker 1>or also still go out there and get another bet.

0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.559
<v Speaker 2>I think the more open competition that they have at

0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.960
<v Speaker 2>both of those guard spots the better, right because right now,

0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.520
<v Speaker 2>when you're looking at, you know, competition between Courtell Versa

0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Vols and Cody Ford, Lucas Patrick, I mean, it's just

0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.200
<v Speaker 2>it's tough. That's not the best crew. Even if you're

0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.360
<v Speaker 2>talking about an open competition there, So would it even

0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.040
<v Speaker 2>shock me if they drafted two interior guys, maybe even

0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.760
<v Speaker 2>a late round center, maybe in the fifth or sixth round. Also,

0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.400
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't shock me that much. But I think post

0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.640
<v Speaker 2>draft they should look at least one more veteran to

0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.320
<v Speaker 2>see if they can improve among that group, because it's

0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.959
<v Speaker 2>just not it's not enough, right and you still need

0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.240
<v Speaker 2>to protect Joe Burrow. I know he can process better

0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.480
<v Speaker 2>than almost any quarterback in football, but it would really

0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.520
<v Speaker 2>help to have more of an open competition because we

0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.440
<v Speaker 2>know these guys don't have the highest ceiling that.

0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:36.160
<v Speaker 3>They have currently.

0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.959
<v Speaker 1>PFF analyst Dalton Wasserman is our guest. You can follow

0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:45.840
<v Speaker 1>him an X at PFF Underscore. Dalton, you published a

0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.559
<v Speaker 1>mock draft earlier this week when it was the Bengals

0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:52.640
<v Speaker 1>turn to pick seventeenth. Overall, there were several top edge

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.400
<v Speaker 1>defenders available, mikel Williams, Mike Green, James Pierce, and some others.

0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.400
<v Speaker 1>There were good defensive tackles on the board can it Grant,

0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Walter Nolan, Derek Harmon. Some of the top guards were there.

0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Tyler Booker, who you mentioned earlier. Grey's Abel was still

0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.200
<v Speaker 1>on the board, Michigan cornerback Well Johnson was on the board.

0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.560
<v Speaker 1>You did choose an edge. It was a guy haven't

0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 1>mentioned yet. Combine star Shamar Stewart of Texas A and

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:19.600
<v Speaker 1>m Why was he your pick?

0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's tough right now, especially if whether

0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.720
<v Speaker 2>or not they're going to sign Trey Hendrickson. I think Stuart,

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.679
<v Speaker 2>if Hendrickson were to stay, Stuart would be a really

0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.920
<v Speaker 2>good compliment to Henderson, being that Hendrickson, I should say,

0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.480
<v Speaker 2>being that he's the great pass rusher and Stuart is

0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 2>a really good run defender. Right there's at least very

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 2>raw as a pass rusher, needs a lot of development there,

0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.760
<v Speaker 2>but very good as a run defending compliment to Hendrickson

0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:46.880
<v Speaker 2>if that were the case that he stayed. Now, I

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.520
<v Speaker 2>think there's also a part to me where Stuart is

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 2>extremely talented and the Bengals almost I almost feel like

0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 2>they need to take that swing right if they're gonna

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.040
<v Speaker 2>have so much to the of the cap go you know,

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.839
<v Speaker 2>towards four P with Burrow, Chase Higgins, impossibly Hendrickson, they

0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.839
<v Speaker 2>almost need to take that home run swing on a

0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.280
<v Speaker 2>guy like Shamar Stewart who has an extremely high ceiling right,

0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.200
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I think that's the thing is raising

0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the ceiling on this.

0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:14.959
<v Speaker 3>Defense right now.

0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 2>They could make they can make a safer pick if

0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.200
<v Speaker 2>they could took if they took a Kenneth Grant or

0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>somebody like that, I think that's a safer pick. You

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.560
<v Speaker 2>know what you're getting in run defense. But it feels

0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 2>like the Bengals, I think they need to take a

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:27.680
<v Speaker 2>little bit more of a risk than some other teams

0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.120
<v Speaker 2>right because they're just missing talent at certain spots on defense,

0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 2>especially now with Sam Hubbard retiring, not much to work

0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 2>with off the edge. And I know it's a similar

0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.440
<v Speaker 2>pick to maybe a Miles Murphy and it hasn't worked

0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 2>so far through his first two years, but they need

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.160
<v Speaker 2>to take a gamble to really see, Okay, if we

0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.959
<v Speaker 2>can get somebody to max out potential like Shamar Stewart,

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>who might even go earlier than the seventeenth pick, they

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 2>could raise the ceiling on this defense and really really

0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.960
<v Speaker 2>changed how it can look on defense. Because they just

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.400
<v Speaker 2>to take a safer pick, I don't know how much

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.319
<v Speaker 2>better it can make their defense immediately, right, and they

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.960
<v Speaker 2>really need this window where they're going to have Burrow

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 2>and Chase and Higgins all signed. They need to think

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.080
<v Speaker 2>an impact player, they need to take a chance on defense.

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.839
<v Speaker 2>That's why Stuart as a higher ceiling player, maybe higher

0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 2>risk Hyrieward I think makes a lot of sense at seventeen.

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 1>I have been looking at a lot of mock drafts

0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.000
<v Speaker 1>and I would say the three names most frequently mocked

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.680
<v Speaker 1>to the Bengals are Stuart, Green and Pierce. What do

0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.000
<v Speaker 1>you think of those other two guys if they were

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 1>to go than that direction?

0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 2>I think both of them make a lot of sense too,

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 2>obviously a little bit smaller. And then I think the

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 2>hardest part for me to project with the Bengals is

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.080
<v Speaker 2>which type of player that Al Golden would want. Is

0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.800
<v Speaker 2>it going to be more of a stand up guy

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>that matches, you know, along with Trey Hendrickson like they've

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.960
<v Speaker 2>had with lou Anarimo in past years, or is it

0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 2>going to be the classic defensive end more like Shamar Stewart.

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Because you're talking about very very different players, right, and

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 2>they're all very talented players. But Stuart's a more classic

0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.960
<v Speaker 2>defensive end, whereas Green and Pierce are lighter to forty

0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.239
<v Speaker 2>five two hundred and fifty pounds stand up outside linebackers.

0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Speed rushers for sure, especially James Pierce very much a

0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 2>speed rusher who is kind of raw. He's got a

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.160
<v Speaker 2>boatload of talent, but it's different than Stuart. You don't

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.000
<v Speaker 2>have as great a run defender. And obviously Mike Green

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.960
<v Speaker 2>also coming from Marshall, different level of competition, still a

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 2>dominant player in the Sunbelt, but you're looking at it

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 2>different type. So I think it depends on what Golden

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 2>is looking for. It's hard to tell because I don't

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.160
<v Speaker 2>know that he's necessarily gonna run his defense exactly the

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 2>same as he did at Notre Dame. It was very aggressive,

0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 2>whole lot of man coverage, whole lot of four man fronts.

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 2>So's it's the hard part for me. That's the hard

0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 2>part predicting for me is the Bengals and how al

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Golden wants to run his defense and how much different

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 2>that's gonna be with loulannar Erumo. I think if it

0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.680
<v Speaker 2>was leu Ana Rumo still I think actually the pick

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>would be Mike Green because he likes the stand up

0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.360
<v Speaker 2>edge rushers. But I can't be one hundred percent sure

0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 2>on that. Those are two very good players, though Green

0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 2>and Pierce, extremely athletic, great get off. I have them

0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.120
<v Speaker 2>as the second and third best edge in that order,

0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Green and Pierce among the edge defenders. But it's gonna really,

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.040
<v Speaker 2>it's really hard to predict right now where Golden's gonna

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 2>want to go, assuming they go with a defensive player

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 2>with that first pick.

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.640
<v Speaker 1>You co host the PFF College Football Show, so I'm

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 1>sure you've watched a lot of Notre Dame over the

0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 1>past few years. What stood out to you about Al

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Golden's defenses.

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 2>The aggressiveness and the confidence, especially in coverage and in

0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.120
<v Speaker 2>the secondary. This year they ran I believe, I want

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.120
<v Speaker 2>to say it was either number one or in the

0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>top three of the most man coverage in the country

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 2>this past year. I believe close to sixty percent. It

0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.680
<v Speaker 2>only ramped up during their you know, during their playoff run,

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.960
<v Speaker 2>and they were just absolutely lights out right. When you

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>talk about guys like Ben Morrison, guys like the true

0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.760
<v Speaker 2>freshman Leonard Moore on the outside that we're going to

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 2>talk about over the next two years and get into

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 2>the twenty twenty seven drafts, Xavior Watts at free safety

0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.280
<v Speaker 2>is another one that's gonna get a lot of talk.

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.360
<v Speaker 2>I think he's a second round pick, and they just

0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.480
<v Speaker 2>they just had such an aggressive and dominant secondary. That's

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 2>what really jumped out to me. Now, I don't think

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.760
<v Speaker 2>they'll run quite as much man coverage in the NFL

0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 2>because you don't see teams that run sixty percent man

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 2>coverage in the NFL very much, an adjustment like defensive

0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 2>coordinator Jeff Hafley made for the Green Bay Packers. He

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.440
<v Speaker 2>were in a similar system at Boston College. Runs more

0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 2>zone coverage in Green Bay, but still wants to get

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.080
<v Speaker 2>aggressive here and there. That's what really sticks out the

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.399
<v Speaker 2>most is the coverage and just the ability to shut

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.200
<v Speaker 2>teams down man to man. I think it's not gonna

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 2>be quite as often in the NFL, and it's just

0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.760
<v Speaker 2>not how that works. But I think that's where it's

0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.119
<v Speaker 2>gonna start us with the coverage. And obviously, look, you

0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.399
<v Speaker 2>need help obviously on the defensive line in the NFL.

0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.399
<v Speaker 2>But if he can get that four man rush going

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.560
<v Speaker 2>maybe here and there, get blitz heavy and a lot

0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 2>of press man coverage, it's gonna look a little bit

0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 2>more aggressive. It's definitely gonna look different than lou An Aroma,

0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.199
<v Speaker 2>who runs a lot of a lot of zone.

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.639
<v Speaker 1>They signed TJ. Slayton to be a run stopping defensive tackle.

0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 1>They re signed B. J. Hill last year. They drafted

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Chris Jenkins and McKinley Jackson, two more defensive tackles. How

0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 1>big of a need is defensive tackle at this point?

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I think it's I think it would be big to

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.760
<v Speaker 2>find a pass rush compliment to those guys. But I

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.120
<v Speaker 2>also think it's a deep defensive tackle class and that's

0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.239
<v Speaker 2>something they could find in the middle rounds. The more

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.080
<v Speaker 2>I think about, you know, like you mentioned those two

0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.680
<v Speaker 2>guys that they sign, plus Chris Jenkins as a second

0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 2>round pick last year, and plus you know again the

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 2>change to a different style of defense, it's if it's

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.000
<v Speaker 2>going to be a four man defensive front instead of

0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of five man like lou Anrimo used to use.

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't think, I really don't think they're taking a

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 2>defensive tackle in the first round.

0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:30.800
<v Speaker 3>I think they're gonna look.

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.840
<v Speaker 2>More in the depth, more through the depth of it,

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.399
<v Speaker 2>maybe a third round type of guy like a Omar

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Norman Lot from Tennessee or an Annis Peebles who's more

0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.399
<v Speaker 2>of a pass rush specialist than the run defender. Like

0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the run defenders that they all have on this team already,

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 2>but I do think it's still in need. I think

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 2>an interior pass rusher to rotate in and play maybe

0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty to twenty five snaps a game right now could

0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.720
<v Speaker 2>be found on you know, early or late day two,

0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 2>or even even in the round four. When you talk

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.600
<v Speaker 2>about how deep this defensive tackle class is, I don't

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.560
<v Speaker 2>think they're going to do it first round, considering the

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.440
<v Speaker 2>resources they spent recently. I think that'll be more likely

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.879
<v Speaker 2>an edge player or possibly someone in the secondary. I

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.520
<v Speaker 2>still think it's possible that they could look there if

0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.639
<v Speaker 2>there's someone they like, but it is a need. I

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 2>think it's a need more towards a specialized pass rusher.

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.199
<v Speaker 1>More to come with Dalton Wasserman, including his take on

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 1>the Trey Hendrickson situation. But first, a quick reminder that

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.240
<v Speaker 1>the Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by paid Core,

0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider by

0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.920
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0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.400
<v Speaker 1>business and community to a new level, and by Kettering

0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 1>is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals, Dalton Losserman

0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.760
<v Speaker 1>is our guest, and that recent mock draft where you

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 1>chose Shamar Stewart seventeenth overall. You posted a picture of

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 1>a three round Bengals mock draft. You had linebacker Demetrius

0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.359
<v Speaker 1>Knight out of South Carolina as their second round pick,

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.040
<v Speaker 1>and offensive lineman Tate Rutledge, whom you mentioned earlier out

0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 1>of Georgia is your third round pick. If that were

0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 1>the case, Stewart might be the least likely to start

0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 1>the first round pick because of the positional needs at

0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 1>linebacker and guard. Do you think that the Bengals need

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.560
<v Speaker 1>to come out of this draft with starters about those

0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>two positions?

0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say so at those two positions. I mean,

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 2>especially if you're talking about now. Jermaine Pratt is still

0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.359
<v Speaker 2>obviously on the ruster, but we've been assuming for a

0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>while that he's going to be gone. And Demitrius Knight

0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:35.840
<v Speaker 2>in the second round is somebody I think with an

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.520
<v Speaker 2>established middle linebacker like Logan Wilson already on that defense,

0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.399
<v Speaker 2>I think this is one of the teams that he

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.959
<v Speaker 2>could go to. He's a perfect week side that will linebacker.

0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 2>I think you talk about playing a similar position to say,

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 2>like the way Drake Greenlaw played against or I should say,

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:56.439
<v Speaker 2>with Fred Warner in San Francisco. I think that's a

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.920
<v Speaker 2>nice fit for him to not have to handle. He's

0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 2>not a middle linebacker. Team that already has an established

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.399
<v Speaker 2>middle linebacker like Logan Wilson that could fit. He's got

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.639
<v Speaker 2>enough speed in coverage. He's not the most physical player,

0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 2>but he's very fast. He can run sideline the sideline,

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:10.919
<v Speaker 2>and he's very good in coverage.

0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 3>So I think.

0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.919
<v Speaker 2>Linebacker if we're still assuming that Jermaine Pratt is getting

0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 2>either traded or cut at some point. I know they

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:19.680
<v Speaker 2>signed orin Berks, but he's more of a third guy

0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:21.560
<v Speaker 2>that can rotate in or give you a spot start.

0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I think Knight could immediately start as that week side guy,

0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:26.560
<v Speaker 2>that new week side guy next to Logan Wilson.

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:27.440
<v Speaker 3>And then at guard.

0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think Tate Ratledge in the third round would

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.680
<v Speaker 2>be a perfect fit. I think actually there's a chance

0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:36.240
<v Speaker 2>he could immediately start. Extremely athletic, extremely clean pass protector,

0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.040
<v Speaker 2>and I think that has to be the priority when

0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:40.240
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about a team built around Joe Burrow and

0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.280
<v Speaker 2>a decent run blocker, right, I mean that, Look, the

0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Bengals had one of the worst run blocking grades for

0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 2>us in the entire league, so anything's better than what

0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:49.240
<v Speaker 2>they had last year. I think Ratledge would walk in

0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:51.200
<v Speaker 2>and start, most likely at right guard.

0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Right away, you mentioned Luke Candra, earlier Cincinnati kid who

0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.440
<v Speaker 1>wound up his college career at the University of Cincinnati.

0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 1>Similar story for running back Corey Kiner started out at

0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.640
<v Speaker 1>LSU finished. Did you see those are probably the two

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Bearcats most likely to get picked. If they're not drafted,

0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.359
<v Speaker 1>there's certainly going to be in NFL camps. What do

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 1>you think of Candra and Kiner?

0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Candra, I think is somewhere between a third and fourth

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.480
<v Speaker 2>round pick. I think he's very consistent, plays a little high.

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 2>He's a taller player, I think it's six five sixty

0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.439
<v Speaker 2>six as a guard, but a good athlete, a fundamentally

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 2>sound player, especially in zone blocking schemes. And I don't

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.120
<v Speaker 2>know that he necessarily is the best fit in as

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 2>far as run scheme goes for the Bengals. But even then, look,

0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:35.880
<v Speaker 2>they need anything they could get if they took him,

0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the in the third round there at

0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:39.119
<v Speaker 2>eighty one, or even if they found a chance to

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 2>get him in the fourth round. I still think he'd

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:42.960
<v Speaker 2>be a nice talented pick. I think I think he's

0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 2>a possible starter, maybe not necessarily first year, but possibly

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:48.760
<v Speaker 2>if a team were thin. I think about the Seattle

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Seahawks as well for him. But I think somewhere in

0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 2>that mid to l eight to fourth round range, I

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.520
<v Speaker 2>think Candra is going. And then Kinder's a guy in

0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 2>a deep running back class who hasn't been talked about

0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.000
<v Speaker 2>a whole whole lot, right. I mean, there's so much

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.440
<v Speaker 2>money backs that we've talked about. I think because of its,

0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, being such a thicker class, he could be

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:06.720
<v Speaker 2>more of a fifth or six round pick. But he

0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:08.840
<v Speaker 2>was one of the leaders in college football this past

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:12.560
<v Speaker 2>year in miss tackles force. He runs hard, he's got

0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:14.880
<v Speaker 2>good vision, he likes to get north and south quickly.

0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:16.960
<v Speaker 2>I think you're gonna see him more as a mid

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.919
<v Speaker 2>to late day three pick, but still possibly a solid

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:23.040
<v Speaker 2>early down runner. I think there's a little bit missing

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:25.239
<v Speaker 2>as far as the receiving game the passing game, and

0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:28.200
<v Speaker 2>that's in part because Cincinnati wasn't the best passing team

0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:29.600
<v Speaker 2>and didn't design a whole lot for him.

0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:31.280
<v Speaker 3>But I think when you talk about an.

0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Early down complimentary, just aggressive, hard hitting back, I think

0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:37.159
<v Speaker 2>this definitely. I think Corey Kiner is getting drafted. I

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.040
<v Speaker 2>think he's just somebody who hasn't gotten mentioned a whole

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.439
<v Speaker 2>lot because there's so many backs that are going in

0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:41.840
<v Speaker 2>this draft.

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 3>But he's one of those guys. I keep saying it.

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I think through even the fifth or sixth round, there's

0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.119
<v Speaker 2>going to be good running backs drafted, and he's one

0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:50.320
<v Speaker 2>of them. On the back end of that, somebody's gonna

0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 2>take him. He's going to get a chance to make

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 2>a roster.

0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Tal Wasserman from Pro Football Focus is our guest. The

0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.679
<v Speaker 1>Bengals and Trey Hendrickson at the moment do not appear

0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to be close to a deal. What should the Bengals

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:03.280
<v Speaker 1>do in your opinion?

0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:07.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, personally, I would find a way to negotiate

0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:10.080
<v Speaker 2>and keep him. I mean, he's by far the best

0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:12.320
<v Speaker 2>defensive player on this team. He's one of the elite

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:15.320
<v Speaker 2>pass rushers in football. And I mean even with him,

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.760
<v Speaker 2>the defense obviously is kind of a mess and they're

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:20.800
<v Speaker 2>trying to figure it out and figure out this draft.

0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:25.320
<v Speaker 2>But to lose an elite pass rusher like that then

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:27.960
<v Speaker 2>you're just talking about starting from scratch on this defense,

0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 2>and it just seems it seems tough to think that

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.080
<v Speaker 2>the negotiations are so hard, not get it, trying to

0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:37.120
<v Speaker 2>work the salary cap and all of that, but it's

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:40.359
<v Speaker 2>just to lose a guy of that caliber. Would I

0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 2>think it's devastating because then you look at their defensive

0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:44.679
<v Speaker 2>line and you go, Okay, now we can't rush the

0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:46.840
<v Speaker 2>passer either, and what do we do with this first

0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 2>round pick, and what do we do with this entire draft?

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:51.080
<v Speaker 2>And obviously if they trade him, they'll have more resources,

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.440
<v Speaker 2>but it's very, very hard to imagine within the next

0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:58.040
<v Speaker 2>two years that you would get another player as productive

0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 2>as Trey Hendrickson and what he's done for his entire

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:02.719
<v Speaker 2>career with the Bengals and really his entire career in

0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:05.760
<v Speaker 2>general with the Saints and the Bengals. Players like him

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:08.480
<v Speaker 2>don't come around that often, right, especially the way in

0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:10.760
<v Speaker 2>what he's developed into and leading the league in sacks.

0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 2>So I would still try to find a way to

0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:15.280
<v Speaker 2>keep him. I mean, it's very hard to think that.

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's that thing where you just go, well,

0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.600
<v Speaker 2>if he's gone, it's not like you're going to find

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.200
<v Speaker 2>any better, anything better in the immediate.

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:23.240
<v Speaker 3>Right, it does.

0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:26.840
<v Speaker 2>You're certainly a better team with Trey Hendrickson on your roster.

0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:30.719
<v Speaker 2>It's it's hard to watch the fact you know the

0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:33.600
<v Speaker 2>negotiations and how it's been lately and how good he is,

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:36.879
<v Speaker 2>and yet they don't feel like the value matches up

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:38.280
<v Speaker 2>with it. I know he's going to be thirty one

0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.200
<v Speaker 2>years old, but he's still got a few years left

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.440
<v Speaker 2>I think as an elite pass rusher, and I would

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:44.040
<v Speaker 2>be trying to keep him with everything.

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:46.720
<v Speaker 1>I have, so you don't have much concern about a

0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:49.240
<v Speaker 1>big drop off after thirty for pass rushers.

0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I think. I think I would say he's got another

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:55.679
<v Speaker 2>three solid years in him as a pass rusher, right,

0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:58.159
<v Speaker 2>And he's not an elite run defender anyway. We have

0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:00.399
<v Speaker 2>him usually in the mid to high sixty, which is

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:02.639
<v Speaker 2>okay as a run defender. But I think definitely the

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:06.480
<v Speaker 2>way he works and the mileage isn't quite as much

0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:08.119
<v Speaker 2>as you might think, because he did play more of

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:10.399
<v Speaker 2>a part time role earlier in his career with the

0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Saints and then really took on a featured role. And

0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.840
<v Speaker 2>look past rushers that we see a lot of them

0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:18.520
<v Speaker 2>all the time now that are solid into their mid thirties, right,

0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 2>even if the role maybe declines a little bit. But

0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:23.359
<v Speaker 2>if I had to take a guess, I think he

0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:26.320
<v Speaker 2>still got probably three more years as a really really good,

0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 2>close to elite pass rusher. I think that could happen.

0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:31.680
<v Speaker 2>And he works. He works his butt off. I mean, honestly,

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:34.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually him. You know, he went to Florida Atlantic.

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.240
<v Speaker 2>I was actually a Florida Atlantic alumni as well, So

0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:40.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, I have people that have known Hendrickson since

0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 2>he was nineteen years old, and even back then, he

0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 2>was always the hardest worker. He was just a different player,

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:47.639
<v Speaker 2>even at that school that you know. It's gotten some

0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:50.320
<v Speaker 2>players to the NFL too, Devin Singletary and as He's

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Al Shier and those guys. But anytime I talked to

0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:54.640
<v Speaker 2>someone in FAU that new trade, they were like, Hey,

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 2>he's different, He's a different animal. He works his butt off.

0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.240
<v Speaker 2>He's just constantly at it. The dream is to be

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:02.399
<v Speaker 2>dominant in the NFL, and I don't think that's gonna

0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:04.400
<v Speaker 2>stop no matter what they pay him or how old

0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:06.640
<v Speaker 2>he gets. He's really gonna squeeze everything he has out

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:08.880
<v Speaker 2>of his career. So I would say, honestly, I think

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:10.840
<v Speaker 2>at least as a pass rusher, he's got another good

0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:11.600
<v Speaker 2>three years in him.

0:27:11.600 --> 0:27:15.040
<v Speaker 1>At least the Bengals kept your bar Chase. They kept

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:18.880
<v Speaker 1>t Higgins. We're obviously excited about that. In Cincinnati. Who

0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:20.080
<v Speaker 1>won free agency?

0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:25.199
<v Speaker 2>I think about I think New England. You look at

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:27.679
<v Speaker 2>what New England did with their defense, and I know

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:29.639
<v Speaker 2>they got it. They still need to work on the offense,

0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's where I would be going heavy in this

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>draft is figuring out the offensive side of the ball

0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 2>around Green around Drake May. I think New England's won

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:41.280
<v Speaker 2>where Mike Rabel's really building that identity with all the

0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:43.119
<v Speaker 2>money they spent on defense. And I'll give you the

0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 2>other one. I really like the Minnesota Vikings. I mean,

0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.000
<v Speaker 2>you look at all the needs that they had. They

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 2>had needs at corner. They found a way to re

0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:53.560
<v Speaker 2>sign Byron Murphy. I think Isaiah Rodgers is an underrated signing.

0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:56.560
<v Speaker 2>They got Harrison Smith for another year at safety, They

0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:59.440
<v Speaker 2>filled in the defensive tackle spot, got some pass rushers

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.520
<v Speaker 2>down there that they needed. Interior offensive line was a

0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:04.359
<v Speaker 2>big need and they got two guys from the Colts

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 2>and Ryan Kelly and Will Fries and I think, especially

0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:08.639
<v Speaker 2>when you look at that pass protection, you look at

0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 2>their offensive line, and now JJ McCarthy's most likely to start,

0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 2>they are in position to support him as about as

0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:19.120
<v Speaker 2>possibly about as well as they possibly can. Right when

0:28:19.160 --> 0:28:21.480
<v Speaker 2>you talk about and you know and Ben Johnson is

0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:22.920
<v Speaker 2>doing the same thing in Chicago.

0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 3>That's another one.

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:25.679
<v Speaker 2>With all the trades and signings they made on the

0:28:25.720 --> 0:28:28.439
<v Speaker 2>offensive line, those are two teams. I look at the

0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Bears and the Vikings that you look at their young quarterback,

0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:34.159
<v Speaker 2>look at their supporting cast, and you go, man, they're

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:36.200
<v Speaker 2>building it right if you're gonna have a young kid

0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:38.720
<v Speaker 2>out there who and Williams you could almost argue is

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:40.600
<v Speaker 2>now in his real first year because it was such

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 2>a disaster last year with the Bears. Where you go, man,

0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.760
<v Speaker 2>if they can't succeed in that situation, then it'll really

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:48.120
<v Speaker 2>be on them. But they've made those situations a lot better.

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Minnesota sticks out, the Bears stick out, New England sticks out,

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:55.480
<v Speaker 2>and I'll give you one more. They didn't make a

0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>ton of moves, but I think they made the right

0:28:56.960 --> 0:29:00.240
<v Speaker 2>moves at Denver Broncos, getting Drake Greenlaw, getting talent know

0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 2>Hufanga and getting Evan Ingram. Those are three players I

0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:05.560
<v Speaker 2>really like them getting that they needed in very specific spots.

0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I think the Broncos are a team to really look

0:29:07.240 --> 0:29:09.160
<v Speaker 2>out for again this coming season.

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Who is the Steelers starting quarterback next year? Mason Rudolph,

0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Rodgers or TBA.

0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I think and everything it sounds like from the Rooneyes

0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 2>and Mike Tomlin obviously is keeping it keeping everything tight.

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it's going to be Aaron Rodgers. I think

0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:30.520
<v Speaker 2>we're just waiting on We're just waiting on Rodgers to

0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:34.880
<v Speaker 2>make his final decision as always and get the actual

0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:38.120
<v Speaker 2>negotiations going. And I think, honestly, it would be much

0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:41.080
<v Speaker 2>easier for the Steelers for now, because of where they're

0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 2>drafting and the lack of depth in this draft class

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 2>to just take Aaron Rodgers. Maybe you take a mid

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:48.680
<v Speaker 2>round quarterback instead, But I think it would be very

0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:52.360
<v Speaker 2>dangerous for them if Rogers, say were to retire, and

0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:55.680
<v Speaker 2>now they're looking pick number twenty one, not entirely sure

0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:58.000
<v Speaker 2>what they're doing. Is it a trade up possibly for

0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Shador Sanders? Is it Jack's and Dart, who I think

0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:03.480
<v Speaker 2>is very polarizing when it comes to how good he

0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:05.240
<v Speaker 2>is and how good he could be in the league.

0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Is it somebody in the middle rounds? Is it Mason

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:10.360
<v Speaker 2>because I mean, look, Mason Rudolph, Let's face it, that's

0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 2>a backup, right, He's a backup. If they if they

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:14.800
<v Speaker 2>start this season with Mason Rudolph as the starter, I

0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:17.600
<v Speaker 2>think they're in trouble. And I know they got Metcalf

0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:21.080
<v Speaker 2>and they have Pickens and Friarmouth, but it makes Rudolph's

0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.360
<v Speaker 2>a backup. They cannot walk in with him as the starter.

0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.240
<v Speaker 2>So I think the most likely scenarios it's Aaron Rodgers.

0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they draft somebody in the middle rounds to sit

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:31.400
<v Speaker 2>behind him and learn a little bit behind him and Rudolph,

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:32.680
<v Speaker 2>But I would assume Rogers is.

0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 1>The guy Colorado just had its pro day. Is Travis

0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Hunter a wide receiver or a cornerback in the NFL s.

0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you, I'm I'm the believer that he's so

0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 2>special that he could play a significant amount of both.

0:30:47.080 --> 0:30:49.920
<v Speaker 2>I've been I've been one of and I know it's rare.

0:30:49.960 --> 0:30:54.000
<v Speaker 2>It's not even just rares, it's unprecedented. I really have

0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:56.959
<v Speaker 2>a belief that he could do something unprecedented late like

0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 2>place seventy to eighty percent on both sides of the ball,

0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:02.200
<v Speaker 2>because I mean what he did at Colorado, he was

0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:04.360
<v Speaker 2>an elite player on both sides. That's why he won

0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:06.600
<v Speaker 2>the Heisman Trophy. You know, I could argue that he's

0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:09.120
<v Speaker 2>the best receiver and the best corner in this draft,

0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 2>and that's both in one body. I've had a hard

0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:15.040
<v Speaker 2>time picking one or the other. I really have because

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I think he's that special. I think he could do

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:19.920
<v Speaker 2>a significant amount of both, and I understand the logic

0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:21.880
<v Speaker 2>both ways. Look when you talk about a guy who's

0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:25.000
<v Speaker 2>been compared at receiver to you know, athletically, to Justin

0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Jefferson or Odell Beckham junior, you go, oh wow, well

0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:30.000
<v Speaker 2>that's that's pretty darn good company. But then you look

0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:32.720
<v Speaker 2>at him play corner, and honestly, he's got the potential

0:31:32.720 --> 0:31:34.640
<v Speaker 2>to be the best corner in football. That's how good

0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:36.280
<v Speaker 2>he is on that side of the ball, especially with

0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 2>his ball skills and the way he uses his offensive

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:42.480
<v Speaker 2>knowledge on defense right and how that all works. So

0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:46.440
<v Speaker 2>I think he's special. I really believe he could be somebody.

0:31:46.480 --> 0:31:48.840
<v Speaker 2>To me, I would play him both ways until he can't,

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 2>until something doesn't go right, whether he can't stay healthy

0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:53.840
<v Speaker 2>enough or it just doesn't work at the NFL level.

0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:55.560
<v Speaker 2>I would give him a true shot both ways.

0:31:56.440 --> 0:32:00.280
<v Speaker 1>All right, Final question for PFF analyst Dalton Washerman, shake

0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:02.760
<v Speaker 1>your time. I was just in Las Vegas for a

0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 1>college basketball tournament. The Bengals Super Bowl odds are the

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:12.200
<v Speaker 1>sixth highest of any team. Too high, too low, or

0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 1>just about right.

0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:17.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm those might be a little high because I need

0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 2>to see the improvements on their defense and a little

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 2>more balance on offense. Now, obviously the floor is there.

0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:25.600
<v Speaker 2>If you have Burrow and Chase and Higgins and they're

0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:28.160
<v Speaker 2>all healthy, you have a shot. They went nine to

0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:30.560
<v Speaker 2>eight this past year, knowing there was four or five

0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:33.760
<v Speaker 2>games that came down to the last minute or down

0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 2>to the very end, and they just couldn't get a stop.

0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:36.040
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:39.440
<v Speaker 2>They know they could compete with anybody. It's just it's

0:32:39.480 --> 0:32:41.560
<v Speaker 2>a matter of this defense, though, and it's very, very

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:43.440
<v Speaker 2>hard to you know, Like I mentioned the two things.

0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:46.400
<v Speaker 2>The pass protection, especially in the interior, it needs to

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:48.640
<v Speaker 2>be a lot better. They need to figure out how

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 2>they can fix up this offensive line. And obviously the

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:53.480
<v Speaker 2>defense needs to be a whole lot better. Right, I mean,

0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 2>you just you're not going to have, you know, a

0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:59.520
<v Speaker 2>team that is twenty second in our defensive grading last season,

0:32:59.720 --> 0:33:01.760
<v Speaker 2>and earlier in the year was worse than that. They

0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:03.280
<v Speaker 2>were in the bottom five, and then they got better

0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 2>the last five six weeks. Got to it's gotta be

0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.400
<v Speaker 2>significantly better. So six might be a little high. There's

0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:09.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot of there's a lot to fix. I mean,

0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:11.880
<v Speaker 2>it's it's hard to even say that they're, you know,

0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:14.720
<v Speaker 2>in the argument to be the leader, the favorite in

0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:16.920
<v Speaker 2>that division, right you know when you talk about Pittsburgh

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:19.800
<v Speaker 2>is still really good and Baltimore is obviously still gonna

0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:22.080
<v Speaker 2>be really good. So that's really the first goals. They

0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:23.680
<v Speaker 2>have to find a way to win that division first

0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:25.720
<v Speaker 2>and then see where it goes. Their defense has to

0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:28.520
<v Speaker 2>get a lot better. I get that Burrow raises the odds,

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:30.880
<v Speaker 2>but six might be a little bit high for me.

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:34.320
<v Speaker 1>You didn't mention Cleveland as a team that they'll have

0:33:34.440 --> 0:33:35.680
<v Speaker 1>to beat in the AFC North.

0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:39.440
<v Speaker 3>That's that's a tougher one. They're certainly not nearly as

0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:40.240
<v Speaker 3>close as six.

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, picking second overall the Browns, that's that's tough,

0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:46.120
<v Speaker 2>and they have a tough decision with that second overall

0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:48.280
<v Speaker 2>pick too, because I mean there's been a lot of

0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 2>talk about Abdul Carter, possibly a quarterback, possibly Travis Hunter.

0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:54.640
<v Speaker 2>But I think the Browns and I think that, you know,

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy Haslam recently admitted this too. Is where it's just

0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 2>they need to get Watson off the books. They're really

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 2>not going to be successful. And until they can get

0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Watson off the books, maybe they'll have a quarterback this year,

0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 2>maybe it'll be next year, but they need to just

0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:11.480
<v Speaker 2>get through this era and flush it out and reset

0:34:11.520 --> 0:34:13.400
<v Speaker 2>the salary cap and figure it out from there. I

0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:15.080
<v Speaker 2>think the Browns. I think the Browns is going to

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:16.719
<v Speaker 2>be in for a tough year and we could see

0:34:16.760 --> 0:34:18.560
<v Speaker 2>him picking top three to five again next year.

0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Dalton, you have been prolific in cranking out interesting content

0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:26.200
<v Speaker 1>of late on Pro Football Focus. I've enjoyed looking at it.

0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:29.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure that will continue up until the draft and beyond.

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:31.719
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate you joining us on the podcast and

0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 1>keep up the good work.

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:34.759
<v Speaker 3>Appreciate you, Dan, thanks for having me on.

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:37.840
<v Speaker 1>That's going to do it for this episode of the

0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Bengals Booth podcast, brought to you by pay Core. Proud

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0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:10.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm Dan Horde and thank you for listening to the

0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:11.839
<v Speaker 1>Bengals Booth podcast.