1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast ba SO Pick Me Up edition, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: as I discussed the upcoming NFL Draft and other Bengals 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: related topics with Pro Football Focus analyst Dalton Wasserman. The 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: business and community to a new level, and by Kettering 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's 11 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition 12 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: greatest thing since Matt Franco. I was in Las Vegas 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: this week for a college basketball tournament and had the 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: opportunity to see magician Matt Franco. If you haven't heard 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: of him, he won America's Got Talent several years ago 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: and now has his own show called Magic Reinvented nightly 19 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: at The Link Hotel and casino on the Las Vegas Strip. 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: I love magicians, and I have seen a lot of 21 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: the big names over the years, and this was the 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: best show I have ever seen with one how the 23 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: hell did he do that? Illusion? After another? If you 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: want to see what I mean, do a quick YouTube 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: search for Matt Franco. That's Matt with one T. And 26 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: if you travel to Las Vegas, by all means, go 27 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: see the show. And after you do, tell me how 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 1: he does the thing with the Ramen noodles. The NFL 29 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Draft is less than three weeks away, making it a 30 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: great time to have Pro Football Focus analyst Dalton Wasserman 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: on the show. In addition to writing about the NFL, 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: Dalton co host the PFF College Football Show and has 33 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: great insight on players in this year's draft that the 34 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: Bengals are likely considering. He also caught my attention this 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: week with an article that had the Bengals ranked number 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: one of any team in the NFL. Taltony recently wrote 37 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: about the NFL teams that have done the best and 38 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: the worst in the first round of the draft of 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: the last five years, and the Bengals came out on top. 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Now that time period begins with the Joe Burrow draft, 41 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: so I guess we shouldn't be surprised, but what do 42 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: you think of the five first round draft picks they've 43 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: made since twenty twenty overall? 44 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 2: I mean, look, when you look at the statistics behind it, right, 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: it's going to come down to the fact that Joe 46 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: Burrow and Jamar It's Chase are obviously two of the 47 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: elite players in football. Right, So when you look at 48 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: something like PFF war I had split things up between 49 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 2: offensive and defensive PFF grades. At this time you're looking at, Okay, well, 50 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: Burrow's been the second most valuable player per PFF four 51 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: and football behind Patrick Mahomes, and Jamar Chase is one 52 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: of the best receivers in football, so the stats are 53 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: a little bit tilted. They obviously could do a little 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: bit better job when it comes to drafting defensive players. 55 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: And we'll see about Amarius Mims, you know, going into 56 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 2: his second year on the offensive line and be a 57 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: huge help if he you know, got a lot better 58 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: this year at right tackle as well. I know that 59 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 2: you know, last year had some injuries and things to 60 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 2: start out, but I think it's exactly what represents the 61 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: Bengals right now is their offense between Burrow and Chase 62 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: and obviously te Higgins as well in the second round 63 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: the same year as Burrow. 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 3: They having a e leite. 65 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: Offense right and they have even some holes there that 66 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: they could still get better with with their interior offensive 67 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: line and even the running game. But defensively, as we 68 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: all know, you know, whether they keep Trey hendrickson or not, 69 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: and however, the rest of the defense is going to 70 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: be built with Al Golden running it. Now, they've got 71 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: to get better. I think it's obviously the Bengals. We 72 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: all know offensively they can beat anybody. Defensively lately, they 73 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: can get beat by anybody. That's kind of how it works, 74 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: and that's because they haven't had that much success throughout 75 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: the draft. 76 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: Let's circle back to last year's first round pick, A 77 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: Marius Mims. I think it's been popular among analysts, a 78 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: lot of PFF people that I've talked to in recent 79 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: years to say that you don't necessarily have to be 80 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: great on the offensive line. The key is not to 81 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: have any huge liabilities. But I saw a clip from 82 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: another podcast you were on recently where you made the 83 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: case that elite pass protection is actually critical. Explain why 84 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: very much so. 85 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: I mean seven of the last eight Super Bowl champions 86 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: have ranked inside the top seven of our pass blocking grade, right, So, 87 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: it really it's coming down to more and more, especially 88 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: with the talent you know of edge rushers and even 89 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: defensive lineman. Now as you saw Philadelphia Eagles this year, 90 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: you have to be able to protect your quarterback in big, 91 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: big situations. 92 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: Right. 93 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: Teams with bad offensive lines are not winning Super Bowls anymore. 94 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: It's extremely hard, both in the past game and the 95 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: run game. Right we saw obviously the Eagles this year 96 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: have that balance. They had that balance of Saquon Barkley 97 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: in the run game too. But you talk about a 98 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: team like the Bengals, who I believe had the third 99 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: worst pass rushing grade as a team or sorry, pass 100 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: blocking grade as a team this year, You're just not 101 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: gonna win like that, right because you've got too many 102 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: teams that have too good of a pass rush as 103 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: well when you get into these big spots, when you 104 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: get into conference title games, when you get into the 105 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: Super Bowl. Right, So, I think it's something that really 106 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: needs to be improved. And obviously, are you going to 107 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: have five superstars, not necessarily, but if you're looking at 108 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 2: having a really good offensive line, you probably need something 109 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: like two superstars and then three solid players who can 110 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: fill the other three spots and at least be, say 111 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: by our standards, in the low sixty or in the 112 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: high sixties or low seventies. You're talking about it's going 113 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: to be hard to have holes on the offensive line, 114 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: and you need to have better pass protection than they have. 115 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: So for as much as the talk has been about 116 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: the Bengals improving their defense, their on line, especially in 117 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: the interior, still needs improvement if they're going. 118 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: To go all the way. 119 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: Of those last five first round draft picks, Miles Murphy 120 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: is the guy who's probably the biggest question mark at 121 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: this point. I guess you could say Dak Sill because 122 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: of the injury, but he was playing really well before 123 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: he got hurt last year. What did you think of 124 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: Miles Murphy coming out of Clemson and should Bengals fans 125 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: anticipate a big step forward this year if he gets 126 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: more playing time. 127 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 3: You would hope so. 128 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: I mean, coming out of Clemson, he was very raw, right, 129 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: You knew he always had a lot of potential at Clemson. 130 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: Never quite hit that peak, and that's why he went 131 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 2: later in the first round, more so because of his 132 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: talent than his production. And I mean, they could really 133 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 2: use they could really use that help off the edge now. 134 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: And I know there's been a lot of talk about 135 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: them drafting an edge rusher in the first round again 136 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: because you know, Murphy's had a slow start during the 137 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: first two years of his career. Plus you know, Trey 138 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 2: Hendrickson obviously on the trade block. But you know, Murphy, 139 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: it's tough to tell right now, just you just haven't 140 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 2: seen a big impact through his first two years. He 141 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: does have a lot of physical talent, but the polish 142 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: has to be there. And I think this is a 143 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: big make or break year for him as it comes to, 144 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: you know, possibly being a starter, especially if Hendrickson gets traded. 145 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: They've got to figure out we already know this entire 146 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: defensive line, but Murphy has to play a much bigger 147 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 2: role than he has the first two years. 148 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: PFF analyst Dalton Loserman is our guest. I mentioned and 149 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: then that recent article about the first round draft picks, 150 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: you ranked the best and the worst teams. The Bengals 151 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: came out on top. The Raiders came out last prior 152 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: to the brock Bauers pick last year. It's almost comically 153 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: bad how lousy Las Vegas is drafted in the first round. 154 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, even with brock Bauers involved. 155 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: You look at again PFF War and they were number 156 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: one on the bottom when it comes to PFF War 157 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 2: from the first round picks over the last five years. 158 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: And that's because obviously at Henry Ruggs who didn't work 159 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: out and had all field issue, same thing with Damon 160 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: Arnet at corner. Alex Bleatherwood was a reach at the time, 161 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: and Tyreek Wilson just hasn't been able to put it 162 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: together again. Kind of the same case as Miles Murphy. 163 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: Miles Murphy where he's an extremely talented pass rusher but 164 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: doesn't have the polish and hasn't put it all together yet. So, 165 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: I mean, Bowers pick this past year obviously, but the 166 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: Raiders and that's why I look, they're picking in the 167 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: top eight again. They're still trying to figure it out, 168 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: especially on defense and other than Max Crosby. This past year, 169 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: the defense was a mess, right, especially in coverage, So 170 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: they're really trying to figure that out. And I mean, 171 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: you see it you know, I look at the bottom 172 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: five teams here and you look at you know, the 173 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: Raiders haven't had much success the last five years. The 174 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: Tennessee Titans, and now they're picking first again because they 175 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: haven't had success in this draft. The Rams are an 176 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: exception because it was their first draft pick Jared Versus 177 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 2: the first first round draft pick since twenty sixteen. And 178 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: then the New Orleans Saints the same thing. They're picking 179 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: in the top ten and slowly declining as a team 180 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: because they haven't drafted well lately. So it's just, you know, 181 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: you look at these teams, a lot of them that 182 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: are in the top eight to ten in this year's draft, 183 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: and you go, well, it makes a lot of sense 184 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: that they're struggling and they're picking near the top again 185 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: because they haven't drafted well in recent years. 186 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: You need those young players. 187 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: You need to find premier talent in the first round 188 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: to continue to get better. 189 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: Let's circle back to the Bengals offensive line, that blueprint 190 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: that you kind of describe ideally with a couple of 191 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: superstars and then three good guys as well. I don't 192 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: know if Orlando Brown Junior and Amrius Mims are superstars 193 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: at least not yet in Mems case, but they're very 194 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: solid at tackle. I don't think anybody would dispute that 195 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: Ted Kerris is a solid center. The guard spots are 196 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: the question mark. They have added Lucas Patrick in free agency, 197 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: but how high of a draft pick do you think 198 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: the Bengals should use on a guard. 199 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: I think there's a pretty good sweet spot on day 200 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: two between pick number forty nine and in the second round, 201 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: when you talk about maybe somebody like Donovan Jackson, if 202 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: a from Ohio State, if he were available. Maybe I 203 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: don't know that Tyler Booker will go that low, but 204 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: if Tyler Booker were ever available in the second round 205 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: at number forty. 206 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: Nine, you'd be looking pretty good. 207 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: And then at number eighty one in the third round, 208 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 2: I think you're talking there a pretty good spot when 209 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: you talk about maybe a Tate Ratledge from Georgia, Luke 210 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: Candra from the you know locally here from the University 211 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: of Cincinnati, I think would be a good help. I 212 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: think rounds two through four for interior offensive lineman, whether 213 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 2: it be a guard or center, that's really gonna be 214 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: the sweet spot. I don't know that there's any first 215 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: rounders that would be worth the seventeenth overall pick. I 216 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: wouldn't say so unless they feel like there's somebody that 217 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: could transfer from tackle to the interior. But more likely 218 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: rounds two through four would be a good spot. I 219 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: know this look, there's gonna be a lot of talk 220 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: about defense and needing to build a defense, but they 221 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 2: need to help on the interior offensive line. I think 222 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: forty nine, eighty one and one nineteen, where the Bengals 223 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: are looking at in rounds two through four, would be 224 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 2: a good spot to be looking for interior offensive linemen. 225 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: If they use one of those picks on a guard, 226 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: is that enough? Brandon Sheriff is still out there in 227 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: free agency? There are still some other names still out 228 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: there in free agency. What do you think draft a starter, 229 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: try to draft a starter and see what you've got, 230 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: or also still go out there and get another bet. 231 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 2: I think the more open competition that they have at 232 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: both of those guard spots the better, right because right now, 233 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: when you're looking at, you know, competition between Courtell Versa 234 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: Vols and Cody Ford, Lucas Patrick, I mean, it's just 235 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 2: it's tough. That's not the best crew. Even if you're 236 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 2: talking about an open competition there, So would it even 237 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: shock me if they drafted two interior guys, maybe even 238 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 2: a late round center, maybe in the fifth or sixth round. Also, 239 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: it wouldn't shock me that much. But I think post 240 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: draft they should look at least one more veteran to 241 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: see if they can improve among that group, because it's 242 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 2: just not it's not enough, right and you still need 243 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: to protect Joe Burrow. I know he can process better 244 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: than almost any quarterback in football, but it would really 245 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 2: help to have more of an open competition because we 246 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: know these guys don't have the highest ceiling that. 247 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: They have currently. 248 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: PFF analyst Dalton Wasserman is our guest. You can follow 249 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: him an X at PFF Underscore. Dalton, you published a 250 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: mock draft earlier this week when it was the Bengals 251 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: turn to pick seventeenth. Overall, there were several top edge 252 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: defenders available, mikel Williams, Mike Green, James Pierce, and some others. 253 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: There were good defensive tackles on the board can it Grant, 254 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: Walter Nolan, Derek Harmon. Some of the top guards were there. 255 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: Tyler Booker, who you mentioned earlier. Grey's Abel was still 256 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: on the board, Michigan cornerback Well Johnson was on the board. 257 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: You did choose an edge. It was a guy haven't 258 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: mentioned yet. Combine star Shamar Stewart of Texas A and 259 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: m Why was he your pick? 260 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's tough right now, especially if whether 261 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: or not they're going to sign Trey Hendrickson. I think Stuart, 262 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 2: if Hendrickson were to stay, Stuart would be a really 263 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 2: good compliment to Henderson, being that Hendrickson, I should say, 264 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: being that he's the great pass rusher and Stuart is 265 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 2: a really good run defender. Right there's at least very 266 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 2: raw as a pass rusher, needs a lot of development there, 267 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: but very good as a run defending compliment to Hendrickson 268 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: if that were the case that he stayed. Now, I 269 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: think there's also a part to me where Stuart is 270 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: extremely talented and the Bengals almost I almost feel like 271 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: they need to take that swing right if they're gonna 272 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: have so much to the of the cap go you know, 273 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 2: towards four P with Burrow, Chase Higgins, impossibly Hendrickson, they 274 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 2: almost need to take that home run swing on a 275 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: guy like Shamar Stewart who has an extremely high ceiling right, 276 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: And you know, I think that's the thing is raising 277 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: the ceiling on this. 278 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 3: Defense right now. 279 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: They could make they can make a safer pick if 280 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 2: they could took if they took a Kenneth Grant or 281 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: somebody like that, I think that's a safer pick. You 282 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: know what you're getting in run defense. But it feels 283 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: like the Bengals, I think they need to take a 284 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 2: little bit more of a risk than some other teams 285 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: right because they're just missing talent at certain spots on defense, 286 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 2: especially now with Sam Hubbard retiring, not much to work 287 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: with off the edge. And I know it's a similar 288 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 2: pick to maybe a Miles Murphy and it hasn't worked 289 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: so far through his first two years, but they need 290 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: to take a gamble to really see, Okay, if we 291 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 2: can get somebody to max out potential like Shamar Stewart, 292 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: who might even go earlier than the seventeenth pick, they 293 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: could raise the ceiling on this defense and really really 294 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 2: changed how it can look on defense. Because they just 295 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: to take a safer pick, I don't know how much 296 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 2: better it can make their defense immediately, right, and they 297 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: really need this window where they're going to have Burrow 298 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: and Chase and Higgins all signed. They need to think 299 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: an impact player, they need to take a chance on defense. 300 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 2: That's why Stuart as a higher ceiling player, maybe higher 301 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: risk Hyrieward I think makes a lot of sense at seventeen. 302 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: I have been looking at a lot of mock drafts 303 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: and I would say the three names most frequently mocked 304 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: to the Bengals are Stuart, Green and Pierce. What do 305 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: you think of those other two guys if they were 306 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: to go than that direction? 307 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: I think both of them make a lot of sense too, 308 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: obviously a little bit smaller. And then I think the 309 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: hardest part for me to project with the Bengals is 310 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: which type of player that Al Golden would want. Is 311 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: it going to be more of a stand up guy 312 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: that matches, you know, along with Trey Hendrickson like they've 313 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: had with lou Anarimo in past years, or is it 314 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: going to be the classic defensive end more like Shamar Stewart. 315 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: Because you're talking about very very different players, right, and 316 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: they're all very talented players. But Stuart's a more classic 317 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: defensive end, whereas Green and Pierce are lighter to forty 318 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,239 Speaker 2: five two hundred and fifty pounds stand up outside linebackers. 319 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: Speed rushers for sure, especially James Pierce very much a 320 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: speed rusher who is kind of raw. He's got a 321 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: boatload of talent, but it's different than Stuart. You don't 322 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: have as great a run defender. And obviously Mike Green 323 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: also coming from Marshall, different level of competition, still a 324 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 2: dominant player in the Sunbelt, but you're looking at it 325 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: different type. So I think it depends on what Golden 326 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: is looking for. It's hard to tell because I don't 327 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 2: know that he's necessarily gonna run his defense exactly the 328 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: same as he did at Notre Dame. It was very aggressive, 329 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: whole lot of man coverage, whole lot of four man fronts. 330 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: So's it's the hard part for me. That's the hard 331 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: part predicting for me is the Bengals and how al 332 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: Golden wants to run his defense and how much different 333 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: that's gonna be with loulannar Erumo. I think if it 334 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 2: was leu Ana Rumo still I think actually the pick 335 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: would be Mike Green because he likes the stand up 336 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: edge rushers. But I can't be one hundred percent sure 337 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: on that. Those are two very good players, though Green 338 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: and Pierce, extremely athletic, great get off. I have them 339 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: as the second and third best edge in that order, 340 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: Green and Pierce among the edge defenders. But it's gonna really, 341 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: it's really hard to predict right now where Golden's gonna 342 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: want to go, assuming they go with a defensive player 343 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: with that first pick. 344 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: You co host the PFF College Football Show, so I'm 345 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: sure you've watched a lot of Notre Dame over the 346 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: past few years. What stood out to you about Al 347 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: Golden's defenses. 348 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: The aggressiveness and the confidence, especially in coverage and in 349 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 2: the secondary. This year they ran I believe, I want 350 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: to say it was either number one or in the 351 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 2: top three of the most man coverage in the country 352 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: this past year. I believe close to sixty percent. It 353 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: only ramped up during their you know, during their playoff run, 354 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: and they were just absolutely lights out right. When you 355 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: talk about guys like Ben Morrison, guys like the true 356 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: freshman Leonard Moore on the outside that we're going to 357 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 2: talk about over the next two years and get into 358 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty seven drafts, Xavior Watts at free safety 359 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: is another one that's gonna get a lot of talk. 360 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: I think he's a second round pick, and they just 361 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: they just had such an aggressive and dominant secondary. That's 362 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: what really jumped out to me. Now, I don't think 363 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: they'll run quite as much man coverage in the NFL 364 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: because you don't see teams that run sixty percent man 365 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: coverage in the NFL very much, an adjustment like defensive 366 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: coordinator Jeff Hafley made for the Green Bay Packers. He 367 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 2: were in a similar system at Boston College. Runs more 368 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 2: zone coverage in Green Bay, but still wants to get 369 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 2: aggressive here and there. That's what really sticks out the 370 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: most is the coverage and just the ability to shut 371 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: teams down man to man. I think it's not gonna 372 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 2: be quite as often in the NFL, and it's just 373 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: not how that works. But I think that's where it's 374 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 2: gonna start us with the coverage. And obviously, look, you 375 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 2: need help obviously on the defensive line in the NFL. 376 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 2: But if he can get that four man rush going 377 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: maybe here and there, get blitz heavy and a lot 378 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: of press man coverage, it's gonna look a little bit 379 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: more aggressive. It's definitely gonna look different than lou An Aroma, 380 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 2: who runs a lot of a lot of zone. 381 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: They signed TJ. Slayton to be a run stopping defensive tackle. 382 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: They re signed B. J. Hill last year. They drafted 383 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: Chris Jenkins and McKinley Jackson, two more defensive tackles. How 384 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: big of a need is defensive tackle at this point? 385 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: I think it's I think it would be big to 386 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: find a pass rush compliment to those guys. But I 387 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 2: also think it's a deep defensive tackle class and that's 388 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 2: something they could find in the middle rounds. The more 389 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: I think about, you know, like you mentioned those two 390 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 2: guys that they sign, plus Chris Jenkins as a second 391 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: round pick last year, and plus you know again the 392 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: change to a different style of defense, it's if it's 393 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: going to be a four man defensive front instead of 394 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: a lot of five man like lou Anrimo used to use. 395 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 2: I don't think, I really don't think they're taking a 396 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: defensive tackle in the first round. 397 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: I think they're gonna look. 398 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: More in the depth, more through the depth of it, 399 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 2: maybe a third round type of guy like a Omar 400 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,239 Speaker 2: Norman Lot from Tennessee or an Annis Peebles who's more 401 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: of a pass rush specialist than the run defender. Like 402 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: the run defenders that they all have on this team already, 403 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: but I do think it's still in need. I think 404 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: an interior pass rusher to rotate in and play maybe 405 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: twenty to twenty five snaps a game right now could 406 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 2: be found on you know, early or late day two, 407 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: or even even in the round four. When you talk 408 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: about how deep this defensive tackle class is, I don't 409 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 2: think they're going to do it first round, considering the 410 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 2: resources they spent recently. I think that'll be more likely 411 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: an edge player or possibly someone in the secondary. I 412 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: still think it's possible that they could look there if 413 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 2: there's someone they like, but it is a need. I 414 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: think it's a need more towards a specialized pass rusher. 415 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: More to come with Dalton Wasserman, including his take on 416 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: the Trey Hendrickson situation. But first, a quick reminder that 417 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by paid Core, 418 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider by 419 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, 420 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: business and community to a new level, and by Kettering 421 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health 422 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals, Dalton Losserman 423 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: is our guest, and that recent mock draft where you 424 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: chose Shamar Stewart seventeenth overall. You posted a picture of 425 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: a three round Bengals mock draft. You had linebacker Demetrius 426 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: Knight out of South Carolina as their second round pick, 427 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: and offensive lineman Tate Rutledge, whom you mentioned earlier out 428 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: of Georgia is your third round pick. If that were 429 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: the case, Stewart might be the least likely to start 430 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: the first round pick because of the positional needs at 431 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: linebacker and guard. Do you think that the Bengals need 432 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: to come out of this draft with starters about those 433 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: two positions? 434 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so at those two positions. I mean, 435 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: especially if you're talking about now. Jermaine Pratt is still 436 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: obviously on the ruster, but we've been assuming for a 437 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: while that he's going to be gone. And Demitrius Knight 438 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: in the second round is somebody I think with an 439 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: established middle linebacker like Logan Wilson already on that defense, 440 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 2: I think this is one of the teams that he 441 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,959 Speaker 2: could go to. He's a perfect week side that will linebacker. 442 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: I think you talk about playing a similar position to say, 443 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: like the way Drake Greenlaw played against or I should say, 444 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: with Fred Warner in San Francisco. I think that's a 445 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 2: nice fit for him to not have to handle. He's 446 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: not a middle linebacker. Team that already has an established 447 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: middle linebacker like Logan Wilson that could fit. He's got 448 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: enough speed in coverage. He's not the most physical player, 449 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: but he's very fast. He can run sideline the sideline, 450 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 2: and he's very good in coverage. 451 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 3: So I think. 452 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 2: Linebacker if we're still assuming that Jermaine Pratt is getting 453 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: either traded or cut at some point. I know they 454 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 2: signed orin Berks, but he's more of a third guy 455 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: that can rotate in or give you a spot start. 456 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: I think Knight could immediately start as that week side guy, 457 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: that new week side guy next to Logan Wilson. 458 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 3: And then at guard. 459 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Tate Ratledge in the third round would 460 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 2: be a perfect fit. I think actually there's a chance 461 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: he could immediately start. Extremely athletic, extremely clean pass protector, 462 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: and I think that has to be the priority when 463 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: you're talking about a team built around Joe Burrow and 464 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 2: a decent run blocker, right, I mean that, Look, the 465 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 2: Bengals had one of the worst run blocking grades for 466 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: us in the entire league, so anything's better than what 467 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: they had last year. I think Ratledge would walk in 468 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 2: and start, most likely at right guard. 469 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: Right away, you mentioned Luke Candra, earlier Cincinnati kid who 470 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: wound up his college career at the University of Cincinnati. 471 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: Similar story for running back Corey Kiner started out at 472 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: LSU finished. Did you see those are probably the two 473 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: Bearcats most likely to get picked. If they're not drafted, 474 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: there's certainly going to be in NFL camps. What do 475 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: you think of Candra and Kiner? 476 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: Candra, I think is somewhere between a third and fourth 477 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 2: round pick. I think he's very consistent, plays a little high. 478 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 2: He's a taller player, I think it's six five sixty 479 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 2: six as a guard, but a good athlete, a fundamentally 480 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: sound player, especially in zone blocking schemes. And I don't 481 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 2: know that he necessarily is the best fit in as 482 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 2: far as run scheme goes for the Bengals. But even then, look, 483 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: they need anything they could get if they took him, 484 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: you know, in the in the third round there at 485 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 2: eighty one, or even if they found a chance to 486 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: get him in the fourth round. I still think he'd 487 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: be a nice talented pick. I think I think he's 488 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 2: a possible starter, maybe not necessarily first year, but possibly 489 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: if a team were thin. I think about the Seattle 490 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: Seahawks as well for him. But I think somewhere in 491 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: that mid to l eight to fourth round range, I 492 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: think Candra is going. And then Kinder's a guy in 493 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: a deep running back class who hasn't been talked about 494 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: a whole whole lot, right. I mean, there's so much 495 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: money backs that we've talked about. I think because of its, 496 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: you know, being such a thicker class, he could be 497 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 2: more of a fifth or six round pick. But he 498 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: was one of the leaders in college football this past 499 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: year in miss tackles force. He runs hard, he's got 500 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 2: good vision, he likes to get north and south quickly. 501 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 2: I think you're gonna see him more as a mid 502 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 2: to late day three pick, but still possibly a solid 503 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: early down runner. I think there's a little bit missing 504 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,239 Speaker 2: as far as the receiving game the passing game, and 505 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 2: that's in part because Cincinnati wasn't the best passing team 506 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: and didn't design a whole lot for him. 507 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 3: But I think when you talk about an. 508 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: Early down complimentary, just aggressive, hard hitting back, I think 509 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 2: this definitely. I think Corey Kiner is getting drafted. I 510 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: think he's just somebody who hasn't gotten mentioned a whole 511 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 2: lot because there's so many backs that are going in 512 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 2: this draft. 513 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: But he's one of those guys. I keep saying it. 514 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 2: I think through even the fifth or sixth round, there's 515 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: going to be good running backs drafted, and he's one 516 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 2: of them. On the back end of that, somebody's gonna 517 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 2: take him. He's going to get a chance to make 518 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: a roster. 519 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: Tal Wasserman from Pro Football Focus is our guest. The 520 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: Bengals and Trey Hendrickson at the moment do not appear 521 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: to be close to a deal. What should the Bengals 522 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: do in your opinion? 523 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: I mean, personally, I would find a way to negotiate 524 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: and keep him. I mean, he's by far the best 525 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: defensive player on this team. He's one of the elite 526 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: pass rushers in football. And I mean even with him, 527 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: the defense obviously is kind of a mess and they're 528 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: trying to figure it out and figure out this draft. 529 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: But to lose an elite pass rusher like that then 530 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 2: you're just talking about starting from scratch on this defense, 531 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: and it just seems it seems tough to think that 532 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: the negotiations are so hard, not get it, trying to 533 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 2: work the salary cap and all of that, but it's 534 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 2: just to lose a guy of that caliber. Would I 535 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 2: think it's devastating because then you look at their defensive 536 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 2: line and you go, Okay, now we can't rush the 537 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: passer either, and what do we do with this first 538 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: round pick, and what do we do with this entire draft? 539 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: And obviously if they trade him, they'll have more resources, 540 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 2: but it's very, very hard to imagine within the next 541 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 2: two years that you would get another player as productive 542 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 2: as Trey Hendrickson and what he's done for his entire 543 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,719 Speaker 2: career with the Bengals and really his entire career in 544 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: general with the Saints and the Bengals. Players like him 545 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 2: don't come around that often, right, especially the way in 546 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 2: what he's developed into and leading the league in sacks. 547 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 2: So I would still try to find a way to 548 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: keep him. I mean, it's very hard to think that. 549 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: You know, it's that thing where you just go, well, 550 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: if he's gone, it's not like you're going to find 551 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 2: any better, anything better in the immediate. 552 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: Right, it does. 553 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 2: You're certainly a better team with Trey Hendrickson on your roster. 554 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 2: It's it's hard to watch the fact you know the 555 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: negotiations and how it's been lately and how good he is, 556 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 2: and yet they don't feel like the value matches up 557 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: with it. I know he's going to be thirty one 558 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 2: years old, but he's still got a few years left 559 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 2: I think as an elite pass rusher, and I would 560 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 2: be trying to keep him with everything. 561 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: I have, so you don't have much concern about a 562 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: big drop off after thirty for pass rushers. 563 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: I think. I think I would say he's got another 564 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: three solid years in him as a pass rusher, right, 565 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: And he's not an elite run defender anyway. We have 566 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 2: him usually in the mid to high sixty, which is 567 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 2: okay as a run defender. But I think definitely the 568 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 2: way he works and the mileage isn't quite as much 569 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 2: as you might think, because he did play more of 570 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 2: a part time role earlier in his career with the 571 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: Saints and then really took on a featured role. And 572 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: look past rushers that we see a lot of them 573 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: all the time now that are solid into their mid thirties, right, 574 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 2: even if the role maybe declines a little bit. But 575 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 2: if I had to take a guess, I think he 576 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 2: still got probably three more years as a really really good, 577 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: close to elite pass rusher. I think that could happen. 578 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: And he works. He works his butt off. I mean, honestly, 579 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 2: I'm actually him. You know, he went to Florida Atlantic. 580 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 2: I was actually a Florida Atlantic alumni as well, So 581 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: you know, I have people that have known Hendrickson since 582 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: he was nineteen years old, and even back then, he 583 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: was always the hardest worker. He was just a different player, 584 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 2: even at that school that you know. It's gotten some 585 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: players to the NFL too, Devin Singletary and as He's 586 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: Al Shier and those guys. But anytime I talked to 587 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: someone in FAU that new trade, they were like, Hey, 588 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: he's different, He's a different animal. He works his butt off. 589 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: He's just constantly at it. The dream is to be 590 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: dominant in the NFL, and I don't think that's gonna 591 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 2: stop no matter what they pay him or how old 592 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 2: he gets. He's really gonna squeeze everything he has out 593 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 2: of his career. So I would say, honestly, I think 594 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: at least as a pass rusher, he's got another good 595 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: three years in him. 596 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: At least the Bengals kept your bar Chase. They kept 597 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: t Higgins. We're obviously excited about that. In Cincinnati. Who 598 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: won free agency? 599 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 2: I think about I think New England. You look at 600 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 2: what New England did with their defense, and I know 601 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: they got it. They still need to work on the offense, 602 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 2: and that's where I would be going heavy in this 603 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: draft is figuring out the offensive side of the ball 604 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 2: around Green around Drake May. I think New England's won 605 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: where Mike Rabel's really building that identity with all the 606 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 2: money they spent on defense. And I'll give you the 607 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 2: other one. I really like the Minnesota Vikings. I mean, 608 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: you look at all the needs that they had. They 609 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: had needs at corner. They found a way to re 610 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 2: sign Byron Murphy. I think Isaiah Rodgers is an underrated signing. 611 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 2: They got Harrison Smith for another year at safety, They 612 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 2: filled in the defensive tackle spot, got some pass rushers 613 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: down there that they needed. Interior offensive line was a 614 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 2: big need and they got two guys from the Colts 615 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 2: and Ryan Kelly and Will Fries and I think, especially 616 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 2: when you look at that pass protection, you look at 617 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: their offensive line, and now JJ McCarthy's most likely to start, 618 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: they are in position to support him as about as 619 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 2: possibly about as well as they possibly can. Right when 620 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 2: you talk about and you know and Ben Johnson is 621 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 2: doing the same thing in Chicago. 622 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: That's another one. 623 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 2: With all the trades and signings they made on the 624 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 2: offensive line, those are two teams. I look at the 625 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 2: Bears and the Vikings that you look at their young quarterback, 626 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 2: look at their supporting cast, and you go, man, they're 627 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 2: building it right if you're gonna have a young kid 628 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: out there who and Williams you could almost argue is 629 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: now in his real first year because it was such 630 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: a disaster last year with the Bears. Where you go, man, 631 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 2: if they can't succeed in that situation, then it'll really 632 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 2: be on them. But they've made those situations a lot better. 633 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: Minnesota sticks out, the Bears stick out, New England sticks out, 634 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: and I'll give you one more. They didn't make a 635 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: ton of moves, but I think they made the right 636 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 2: moves at Denver Broncos, getting Drake Greenlaw, getting talent know 637 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: Hufanga and getting Evan Ingram. Those are three players I 638 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 2: really like them getting that they needed in very specific spots. 639 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 2: I think the Broncos are a team to really look 640 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: out for again this coming season. 641 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: Who is the Steelers starting quarterback next year? Mason Rudolph, 642 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers or TBA. 643 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: I think and everything it sounds like from the Rooneyes 644 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: and Mike Tomlin obviously is keeping it keeping everything tight. 645 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 2: I think it's going to be Aaron Rodgers. I think 646 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: we're just waiting on We're just waiting on Rodgers to 647 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 2: make his final decision as always and get the actual 648 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: negotiations going. And I think, honestly, it would be much 649 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: easier for the Steelers for now, because of where they're 650 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: drafting and the lack of depth in this draft class 651 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: to just take Aaron Rodgers. Maybe you take a mid 652 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 2: round quarterback instead, But I think it would be very 653 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: dangerous for them if Rogers, say were to retire, and 654 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: now they're looking pick number twenty one, not entirely sure 655 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: what they're doing. Is it a trade up possibly for 656 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: Shador Sanders? Is it Jack's and Dart, who I think 657 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 2: is very polarizing when it comes to how good he 658 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: is and how good he could be in the league. 659 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: Is it somebody in the middle rounds? Is it Mason 660 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 2: because I mean, look, Mason Rudolph, Let's face it, that's 661 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: a backup, right, He's a backup. If they if they 662 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 2: start this season with Mason Rudolph as the starter, I 663 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 2: think they're in trouble. And I know they got Metcalf 664 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 2: and they have Pickens and Friarmouth, but it makes Rudolph's 665 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: a backup. They cannot walk in with him as the starter. 666 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: So I think the most likely scenarios it's Aaron Rodgers. 667 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: Maybe they draft somebody in the middle rounds to sit 668 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 2: behind him and learn a little bit behind him and Rudolph, 669 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 2: But I would assume Rogers is. 670 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: The guy Colorado just had its pro day. Is Travis 671 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: Hunter a wide receiver or a cornerback in the NFL s. 672 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 2: I'll tell you, I'm I'm the believer that he's so 673 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: special that he could play a significant amount of both. 674 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 2: I've been I've been one of and I know it's rare. 675 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 2: It's not even just rares, it's unprecedented. I really have 676 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,959 Speaker 2: a belief that he could do something unprecedented late like 677 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: place seventy to eighty percent on both sides of the ball, 678 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: because I mean what he did at Colorado, he was 679 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 2: an elite player on both sides. That's why he won 680 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: the Heisman Trophy. You know, I could argue that he's 681 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: the best receiver and the best corner in this draft, 682 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: and that's both in one body. I've had a hard 683 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 2: time picking one or the other. I really have because 684 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: I think he's that special. I think he could do 685 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 2: a significant amount of both, and I understand the logic 686 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: both ways. Look when you talk about a guy who's 687 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 2: been compared at receiver to you know, athletically, to Justin 688 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 2: Jefferson or Odell Beckham junior, you go, oh wow, well 689 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 2: that's that's pretty darn good company. But then you look 690 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 2: at him play corner, and honestly, he's got the potential 691 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: to be the best corner in football. That's how good 692 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: he is on that side of the ball, especially with 693 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 2: his ball skills and the way he uses his offensive 694 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: knowledge on defense right and how that all works. So 695 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: I think he's special. I really believe he could be somebody. 696 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: To me, I would play him both ways until he can't, 697 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: until something doesn't go right, whether he can't stay healthy 698 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 2: enough or it just doesn't work at the NFL level. 699 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: I would give him a true shot both ways. 700 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: All right, Final question for PFF analyst Dalton Washerman, shake 701 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: your time. I was just in Las Vegas for a 702 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: college basketball tournament. The Bengals Super Bowl odds are the 703 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: sixth highest of any team. Too high, too low, or 704 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: just about right. 705 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 2: I'm those might be a little high because I need 706 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 2: to see the improvements on their defense and a little 707 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: more balance on offense. Now, obviously the floor is there. 708 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: If you have Burrow and Chase and Higgins and they're 709 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: all healthy, you have a shot. They went nine to 710 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 2: eight this past year, knowing there was four or five 711 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 2: games that came down to the last minute or down 712 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 2: to the very end, and they just couldn't get a stop. 713 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 3: Right. 714 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 2: They know they could compete with anybody. It's just it's 715 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: a matter of this defense, though, and it's very, very 716 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: hard to you know, Like I mentioned the two things. 717 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: The pass protection, especially in the interior, it needs to 718 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: be a lot better. They need to figure out how 719 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: they can fix up this offensive line. And obviously the 720 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: defense needs to be a whole lot better. Right, I mean, 721 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 2: you just you're not going to have, you know, a 722 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 2: team that is twenty second in our defensive grading last season, 723 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 2: and earlier in the year was worse than that. They 724 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 2: were in the bottom five, and then they got better 725 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 2: the last five six weeks. Got to it's gotta be 726 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 2: significantly better. So six might be a little high. There's 727 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: a lot of there's a lot to fix. I mean, 728 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 2: it's it's hard to even say that they're, you know, 729 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: in the argument to be the leader, the favorite in 730 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 2: that division, right you know when you talk about Pittsburgh 731 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: is still really good and Baltimore is obviously still gonna 732 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 2: be really good. So that's really the first goals. They 733 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 2: have to find a way to win that division first 734 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: and then see where it goes. Their defense has to 735 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 2: get a lot better. I get that Burrow raises the odds, 736 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: but six might be a little bit high for me. 737 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: You didn't mention Cleveland as a team that they'll have 738 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: to beat in the AFC North. 739 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 3: That's that's a tougher one. They're certainly not nearly as 740 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 3: close as six. 741 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: I mean, picking second overall the Browns, that's that's tough, 742 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: and they have a tough decision with that second overall 743 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: pick too, because I mean there's been a lot of 744 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: talk about Abdul Carter, possibly a quarterback, possibly Travis Hunter. 745 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 2: But I think the Browns and I think that, you know, 746 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: Jimmy Haslam recently admitted this too. Is where it's just 747 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: they need to get Watson off the books. They're really 748 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: not going to be successful. And until they can get 749 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: Watson off the books, maybe they'll have a quarterback this year, 750 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: maybe it'll be next year, but they need to just 751 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 2: get through this era and flush it out and reset 752 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 2: the salary cap and figure it out from there. I 753 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 2: think the Browns. I think the Browns is going to 754 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 2: be in for a tough year and we could see 755 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 2: him picking top three to five again next year. 756 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: Dalton, you have been prolific in cranking out interesting content 757 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: of late on Pro Football Focus. I've enjoyed looking at it. 758 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure that will continue up until the draft and beyond. 759 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you joining us on the podcast and 760 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: keep up the good work. 761 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 3: Appreciate you, Dan, thanks for having me on. 762 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this episode of the 763 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast, brought to you by pay Core. Proud 764 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: to be the Bengals Official HR software provider by Alta 765 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, 766 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: business and community to a new level, and by Kettering 767 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health 768 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. If you 769 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and 770 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: if you have a minute, give it a rating or 771 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us. 772 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm Dan Horde and thank you for listening to the 773 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast.