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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by turkeys with mohawks. No, instead,

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Speaker 1: is brought to you by Netflix's new four part docuseries

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Speaker 1: Evil Genius. This is the story of Bryan Douglas Wells,

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Speaker 1: an American pizza delivery man who was killed by a

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Speaker 1: remotely controlled bomb that had been fastened to his neck

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Speaker 1: under coercion from the maker of the bomb. From the

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Speaker 1: studio that brought you Making a Murderer, comes a twisting,

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Speaker 1: turning bank hits that will shed light up on the

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Speaker 1: true story of the pizza bomber and the person who

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Speaker 1: might have gotten away with master winning the entire thing.

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Speaker 1: Docuseries Evil Genius is streaming now only on Netflix. Watch

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Speaker 1: it today. It's Quicker Tar Glories. So it's almost time,

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Speaker 1: but we're expecting about another three people to show up. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we might hold off for an extra minute or two.

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Speaker 1: There you go. There they are. Yeah. You guys know

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Speaker 1: Robin from the Trail went Cold Say hi everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll set the term my mic on did they whatever

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Speaker 1: I said? I'm sorry, it says here in the script

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Speaker 1: witty banter. Okay, it does it actually does it does? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it says intro ourselves period, wint Witty Badger period. Yeah

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Speaker 1: like cold Oh okay, yeah, I don't know. All right,

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Speaker 1: for those of you who weren't here a few minutes ago,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna show off one more time. I know, I

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Speaker 1: know it looks like a UFO, but it's actually look

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Speaker 1: into a sombrero. Yeah I know. Uh. Actually, all I

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Speaker 1: had to do was tell her my sad story and

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Speaker 1: she gave it to me. Wen't that's eat you know? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was going to charge me, but she just gave

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Speaker 1: it to me. So this is the point where you

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Speaker 1: turn your ring tones off. Yeah, yeah, that would be good,

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Speaker 1: thank you. That was planned. Okay, it's three thirty crap?

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Speaker 1: Should do this? Or should we just go to the bar?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we said we'd do it. First off,

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Speaker 1: How are y'all doing? Uh? Having fun at Triumphon? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I'm sorry. We got those recording thing situated, I believe,

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Speaker 1: so it's all figured out theoretically, all right, this could

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Speaker 1: be the last episode, let's hope not already was. By

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Speaker 1: the way, excuse my voice it cuts out a little

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Speaker 1: bit because I was at Fuse last night and the

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Speaker 1: decibel level was like about three hundred in there, and

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Speaker 1: so I had to be screaming at people when I

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Speaker 1: was talking to them, and I think I kind of

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Speaker 1: damaged my local courts a little bit. So he was

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Speaker 1: actually just screaming at people. It had nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with the music. Screaming at you. But yeah, okay, well

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Speaker 1: I guess it's my job to get this thing started. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, So you guys know maybe from last year,

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Speaker 1: maybe from listening to us that we're recording this, so sorry,

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Speaker 1: um so hello and welcome to Crime. We are thinking

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Speaker 1: sideways the podcast, and we're gonna do a show for

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Speaker 1: you tonight. We have a mystery. Um but first, I'm Devin,

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe, and I'm Steve's perfect. It sounds like there's

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Speaker 1: like twelve times they get people in here, so let's

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Speaker 1: do that again. And I'm going to run through the

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Speaker 1: crowd with the micro let. We're not doing that. We're

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Speaker 1: not doing that. I'm sorry. What are you going to

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Speaker 1: talk about tonight? Let's see Golden Killer? Yeah, DNA or something,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I don't know about this

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Speaker 1: DNA stuff. You know. I was reading this article that

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Speaker 1: we share like of our DNA with frogs so it's

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Speaker 1: like a frog, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not totally convinced about that one yet. Okay, well, scratch

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Speaker 1: up another one. Yeah we did maybe an ax murder. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and how much cool about this one? Has just happened

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Speaker 1: really close to where we're sitting right now. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's get started right so good, all right, We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the axe murder of the aid family

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Speaker 1: in March twenty four of eighteen nine seven. Our story

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Speaker 1: takes place here in Tennessee. As we just mentioned, at

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Speaker 1: the time, the area was called Germantown because, as you

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Speaker 1: might have guessed, there are a lot of German immigrants

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Speaker 1: that lived there. The Aids were also German immigrants, and

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Speaker 1: they had been living in the area for about twenty

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Speaker 1: years at the time that our story takes place. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Jacob and a line had I should introduce

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Speaker 1: you to the family, Jacob and Pauline. Jacob was the

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Speaker 1: patriarch of the family. He was sixty years old at

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Speaker 1: the time. His wife, Pauline was fifty years old. Also

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Speaker 1: involved were two children, uh daughter named Lizzie who was

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Speaker 1: twenty and a son named Henry who was thirteen. Worth

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Speaker 1: mentioning they weren't just like super old parents um for

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Speaker 1: the times. For the time. They also had three adult children,

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Speaker 1: but they had moved out by then. Lucky them. And

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Speaker 1: that's what we called by forest shadowing. H Jacob and

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Speaker 1: Pauline owned quite a large farm in what was then

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Speaker 1: called Paradise Ridge but is now called Joel Town, which

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Speaker 1: I believe is like sixteen miles from where we are here.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there are any right, are you

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Speaker 1: guys from? Is anybody from Tennessee there? You? Yeah? So

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Speaker 1: the people that were not all right, they're farm it's said,

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Speaker 1: was at least four hundred acres, which is point six

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Speaker 1: square miles or one point six square kilometers, which is

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Speaker 1: not nothing. I guess I don't know acres, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: as you do. With farms. Not only was there a farmhouse,

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Speaker 1: but also lots of outbuildings like barns, et cetera, and

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Speaker 1: at least one smokehouse. But to be fair, the barn

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Speaker 1: is actually speculation because there are very little details about

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Speaker 1: this story other than the fact that there were five

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Speaker 1: rooms in the farmhouse and there was a smokehouse. That's

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Speaker 1: all we really know. But there had to be a

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Speaker 1: because you have to story your tools somewhere right right,

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Speaker 1: I probably tool ship. Yeah. Uh. Here's the thing with farming.

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Speaker 1: You probably know. It can be much more lucrative for

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Speaker 1: some people than others. And the Aids were considered very

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Speaker 1: wealthy by their peer farmers. It's unclear to me if

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Speaker 1: this is true or not. We've talked a lot about this.

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Speaker 1: The Aids might have just been very generous with their

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Speaker 1: money because they Jacob would loan money to any farmers

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Speaker 1: in the area that maybe needed some. But he was

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Speaker 1: also pretty litigious, which is the correct use of that

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Speaker 1: word this time, thank you reporting is that just days

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Speaker 1: before the thing that you're about to learn at about,

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Speaker 1: Jacob had been in court because somebody had stolen one

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Speaker 1: of his hogs and he was suing them. That's not cool, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So we have the a family. We have Jacob, Pauline, Lizzie,

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Speaker 1: and Henry. Also involved in what you're about to learn

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Speaker 1: out is Rosa, who was a ten year old neighbor

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Speaker 1: who was sleeping over um and we her dad lived

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Speaker 1: in the area, but we're no it's unclear why she

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Speaker 1: was sleeping at the house at the time. Her last

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Speaker 1: name is reported differently every single place you read it,

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Speaker 1: So it could be Morrier more Tier, Murrier Morier ear

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Speaker 1: or like Moriarty or something that last one that's not true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Joe, Okay, my turn. So now Dev has

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Speaker 1: done the hard work of introducing all of our characters,

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Speaker 1: like crime. Uh all, by the way, the Aids family,

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Speaker 1: because you're wondering the Aig family A D E not

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Speaker 1: a I D just in case you're curious. I keep

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Speaker 1: wanting to call him like live cool band. You know

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Speaker 1: I mean that now, So it's a D. So none

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Speaker 1: of that applies. So the crime. So nobody actually saw

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Speaker 1: the crime except for the guy who committed it, of course.

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Speaker 1: But around nine thirty that night it was dark, of

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Speaker 1: course it was with March and Tennessee. Their closest neighbor

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Speaker 1: was about half mile away and saw flames coming from

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Speaker 1: their home, and so rode over on his horse to

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Speaker 1: check it out. This guy's name was Justice Simpson the West.

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Speaker 1: Some accounts his name was Squire Simpson. I think it

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Speaker 1: was Justice the keeping simple. We're gonna call him Justin

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Speaker 1: as always, Yeah, yeah, as always. Uh so just Justin

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Speaker 1: got there. The whole house was already up in flames,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't see the family anywhere. So all I

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Speaker 1: could think of do was go to the smokehouse and

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Speaker 1: pull all the meat out of the smokehouse. And that's

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Speaker 1: what he said afterwards, you know, I'm like, He's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the meat was gonna be destroyed, so I

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Speaker 1: thought I would save the meat. I think he was

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Speaker 1: is trying to get some free meat. I think that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: the family's going up in flames, I'm gonna grab some

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Speaker 1: free st We don't know, that's less give him the

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Speaker 1: benefit of the Yeah, So he starts pulling meat out

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Speaker 1: of the smoke causse while yelling for the family. He

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Speaker 1: was thinking that maybe they were already already up in flames,

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Speaker 1: or I'll say it escaped the house and they were,

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Speaker 1: you know, lurking somewhere, maybe on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the house or something. He wasn't sure, but he was

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Speaker 1: he was moving the meat and uh yeah, and then uh.

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Speaker 1: According to one version of this story, while while our

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Speaker 1: friend Justin was was there moving the meat out of

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Speaker 1: the smokes, you keep saying it that way. Yeah, very uncomfortable. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me think here, all right, I just won't talk

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Speaker 1: about that anymore. Uh Uh. So he was doing his

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Speaker 1: thing and apparently like an exterior an exterior wall of

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Speaker 1: the house falls down and just collapse is and he

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Speaker 1: was able to see inside the burning house, and so

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Speaker 1: and he saw what he saw the dead bodies in there.

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Speaker 1: Although to him they looked like just big bundles of clothing.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't sure. So he did what any of us

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Speaker 1: would do when you're you know, like like face with

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Speaker 1: a huge burning house. You know, he went and got

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Speaker 1: a potato fork, which is like a pitchfork, but the

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Speaker 1: times have been bent, so yeah, yeah, and so he

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Speaker 1: grabs one of those and ties a long pole to

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Speaker 1: it and goes and starts poking at those those big bundles.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I would do that, but he yeah,

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Speaker 1: I bet that's what he did, and uh pull folks

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Speaker 1: out of a bit and then kind of hooks him

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Speaker 1: and pulls him out of the house and turns out

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Speaker 1: there were corpses. Yeah, I know, the dead bodies, not

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Speaker 1: just dead bodies, but headless bodies. Right now, I know that.

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Speaker 1: I know. That makes it even better, doesn't it. Uh So?

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Speaker 1: Uh where am I at here? And the ruining Steve's

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Speaker 1: part is what you're doing. Sorry, I'm stopping all over

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Speaker 1: his stuff, but I don't I don't know. I'm not

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Speaker 1: so sure about this because unless the guy was like

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Speaker 1: a terminator from the future, how do you do this?

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Speaker 1: Because house fires are like what like nine hundred degrees right,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I'm wondering if perhaps because it turns

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Speaker 1: out a rain storm kicked up that night kind of

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Speaker 1: doused the flames a bit, so it might be that

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Speaker 1: Justin Way didn't tell after things that kind of died

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Speaker 1: down a little bit before he started poking around and

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Speaker 1: they're pulling bodies out of the wreckage of the house.

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Speaker 1: That's the less heroic version, that is. Yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: call it the less heroic version. Yeah, but whatever he did,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, long story short, they did find

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Speaker 1: fourheadless bodies, although some reports say too, I like four

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Speaker 1: better myself, just like literally all of this is Steve. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: this is a problem is I. I sort of stare

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Speaker 1: at the script, but I'm not really seeing it. I'm

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Speaker 1: just like going off memory. So I'm going to turn

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Speaker 1: it over to Steve. It though he doesn't have anything

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Speaker 1: to talk about alright, theories getting ahead, so obviously no

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Speaker 1: matter whether it was two bodies or it was four bodies.

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Speaker 1: Justin is freaked out. So he runs away and he

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Speaker 1: goes and he gets a neighbor and says, hey, I

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Speaker 1: found these dead bodies. What do we do? They then

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Speaker 1: go and get Rosa's dad, who I'm he must have

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Speaker 1: been just a couple of miles away, and then they

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Speaker 1: all go back to the property and mill about. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what they were doing while they were waiting there.

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Speaker 1: Eventually the sheriff would show up and he would start

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Speaker 1: looking around. When they pulled the bodies out, they noticed

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Speaker 1: that it was the Aid family, only the ones that

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Speaker 1: Justin pulled out. But when the sheriff starts looking around,

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Speaker 1: he finds Rosa's body, and she's a little bit different

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Speaker 1: than the other because she's not as burned as badly

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Speaker 1: as everybody else. As heads right, she is missing some

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Speaker 1: she is missing a hand, and it appears that she's

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Speaker 1: missing the back of her head as if somebody took

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Speaker 1: a swing at her and didn't get the whole thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is not exactly the nicest thing in the world.

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Speaker 1: And the question that I always ask on the times

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Speaker 1: that we've rehearsed this and it's well before is always

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Speaker 1: why why would her body be less burned than all

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Speaker 1: the other ones, and so there's a lot of ideas

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Speaker 1: of why that might be. The general theory is that

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Speaker 1: she must have tried to get away, and maybe she

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Speaker 1: was caught outside of the house and then once the

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Speaker 1: killer had killed her, tossed her back into the building

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Speaker 1: with the intention of her burning up with everybody else.

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Speaker 1: But she was in an area of the house that

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Speaker 1: maybe didn't burn as much, and therefore she was spared

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Speaker 1: the flames. But it's you know, it's hard to say because,

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Speaker 1: as Devin said, there's weird reporting on this story and

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Speaker 1: it changes all over the place. There are places that

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Speaker 1: said that she did have her hand. There's also places

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Speaker 1: that say that her body was found in a crouching position, which,

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Speaker 1: when we talked about it, yeah, with her hands over

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Speaker 1: her head kind of herself, like for a dead body

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Speaker 1: to be just like crouching, I think it'd fall over.

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Speaker 1: And the only thing that we can come up with

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Speaker 1: is maybe she was in the corner of a room,

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Speaker 1: which is even scarier when you think about it, because yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to think about going that way. So

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Speaker 1: the original working theory was this. Someone must have come

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Speaker 1: to the house around eight o'clock that night. They killed

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Speaker 1: Jacob first and then chase the rest of the family

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Speaker 1: into the house and would corner them in the parlor

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Speaker 1: where they would be murdered. And it is believed that

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Speaker 1: it is at this point while the Aid family was

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Speaker 1: being killed in the parlor, if Rosa had tried to

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Speaker 1: get away, that's when she would have done it. There

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Speaker 1: was speculation that she had tried to go out a window,

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Speaker 1: which since most of the house was burned down. I

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Speaker 1: don't don't know why where they came up with that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that part doesn't make a lot of sense, But

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Speaker 1: as with all of the reporting, a lot of things

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Speaker 1: don't make sense. Pause for a drink, Pose for a drink,

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Speaker 1: I get dry mouth. If you ever notice it's a

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Speaker 1: bad thing, don't do it. See where the heck were we? Oh? Okay? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we talked about the fact that the house had

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Speaker 1: partially burned and then the fire head when put out.

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Speaker 1: Of course, when they get those bodies, the heads are missing,

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Speaker 1: and people have said, well, where could the heads have gone?

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Speaker 1: It's likely that they did not burn up in the fire,

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Speaker 1: because if the bodies didn't burn up. Heads are very moist,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to burn up very easy. They don't

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Speaker 1: explode in flames like that. So no, no, this is

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Speaker 1: not the zombie movie, so that does not happen. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so it's thought at this point that our killer

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Speaker 1: must have packed away these two or full or full

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Speaker 1: intact heads, which it's kind of gotta be a lot

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Speaker 1: of weight to carry. How much does it? It's ten

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Speaker 1: pounds that stuff Actually, funny story. Googled it, um. And

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Speaker 1: actually when I googled it, I was doing something else,

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Speaker 1: and so I accidentally googled how much as a human

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Speaker 1: head cost? And you can there is a price, it

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Speaker 1: turns out, or full size, full size, and that's for

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Speaker 1: like the whole transplant. I couldn't find what it just

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Speaker 1: it's probably um. So okay, So back to the investigation.

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Speaker 1: So really there are no clues as to what happened

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Speaker 1: to the family. Authorities would search around. They would arrest

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Speaker 1: two black men who lived in Ashland City, which is

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Speaker 1: apparently ten miles away, but their confessions would be found

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Speaker 1: to not be exactly right, and probably we're coerced, and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a little bit. In theories, um.

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Speaker 1: Then two other men that were local men were charged

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Speaker 1: with the crime. They were sent to trial. They were

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Speaker 1: acquitted because there's no evidence, so they really there was

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Speaker 1: nothing who convict them with. So you know, we've kind

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Speaker 1: of got a perfect crime here because well, wait, there

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Speaker 1: is one witness, so we've been holding back on you.

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Speaker 1: There is one single witness. It was the family's German shepherd. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I believe it or not, they had a dog. The

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Speaker 1: dog saw it all, told the sheriff what had happened.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff used the dog as his secret witness. I don't,

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Speaker 1: I don't. It's the late eighteen nineties. I guess it

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Speaker 1: was the wild West of investigations. My my best guess

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Speaker 1: here is that his plan was to take the dog

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Speaker 1: all around town and whoever the dog barked out must

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Speaker 1: have been guilty of people got executed because it turns

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Speaker 1: out that dog was a barker. So yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: the really weird part about the story. So really, no

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Speaker 1: no witnesses, perfect crime. Yeah. The reason I think we

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Speaker 1: missed this one of the reasons that most of the

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Speaker 1: evidence was gone because of that rainstorm. It washed away

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Speaker 1: most of the blood evidence. There were no footprints anything

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Speaker 1: like that because it was a really heavy rainstormire right,

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Speaker 1: help anything? Yeah, so it was kind of perfect. Actually

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Speaker 1: it turned out not bad crime. Yeah, alright, well I'll

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Speaker 1: have to say perfect crime. But you know, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: it's time for theories. But first let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: A bomb this is an explosive weapon that uses the

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Speaker 1: exothermic reaction of an explosive material to provide an extremely

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Speaker 1: sudden and violent release of energy. Detonations have like damage

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Speaker 1: principally through transmitted mechanical stress, the impact and penetration of

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Speaker 1: pressure driven projectiles, pressure damage, and explosion generated effects. Bombs

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Speaker 1: can be defined as vessels containing a reactive material. A

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Speaker 1: baby with a full belly. Someone could really know how

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Speaker 1: to wear those shorts at a large, greasy meal that

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Speaker 1: will definitely sit in the pit of your stomach all

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Speaker 1: day long. Well, if you want to hear about the

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Speaker 1: first kind of bomb, we've got the show for you.

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Speaker 1: It's Evil Genius. Evil Genius tells the story of Brian

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Speaker 1: Douglas Wells, an American pizza delivery man who was killed

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Speaker 1: by a remotely controlled bomb fastened to his neck under

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Speaker 1: coversion from the maker of the bomb. In two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: Wells was apprehended by police for robbing a bank while

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Speaker 1: the bomb was locked to his neck. Shortly thereafter, the

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Speaker 1: bomb detonated and it killed him instantly. After years of

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Speaker 1: mishandled investigations, Evil Genius will shed light on the true

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Speaker 1: story of the pizza bomber and the person who might

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Speaker 1: have gotten away with masterminding the whole thing. From the

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Speaker 1: studio that brought you, making a murder and the Keepers

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00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: comes a twisting, turning bank heist that leaves a trail

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Speaker 1: of bodies in one big question who was the Evil

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Speaker 1: Genius behind it? The four part docuseries Evil Genius is

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Speaker 1: streaming now only on Netflix because it's the bump and

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Speaker 1: we're back. Okay, so theory number one. You get to

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Speaker 1: hear me continue to prattle on because I have theory

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Speaker 1: number one, So lucky you. The first theory is that

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Speaker 1: it was robbery. As we've established before, the Aid family

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Speaker 1: was well off, or at least generous to the folks

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Speaker 1: that lived in the area, and it was not an

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Speaker 1: unknown fact that they actually kept a lot of money

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Speaker 1: in the house. Turns out that they were known to

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Speaker 1: catch several hundred dollars at any one time in their home.

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Speaker 1: If you look at what a hundred dollars is worth

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Speaker 1: in the late eighteen nineties to today, it's somewhere in

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Speaker 1: the range of about so you're looking at five grand,

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Speaker 1: ten grand. It's kind of that's not I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's enough money for me to want to murder somebody, especially.

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Speaker 1: People have different standards though, but yeah, it wouldn't quite

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Speaker 1: met my standard form brochering an entire family, But just

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Speaker 1: just so I'm warned, Yeah, it's kind of a moving targets.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy um Okay. So there were the two gentlemen

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Speaker 1: from Ashland City that were originally brought in for the crime,

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Speaker 1: and they had confessed. The reason that their confessions didn't

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Speaker 1: or that they didn't get charged with these crimes is

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Speaker 1: their confession was that they robbed. They went in and

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Speaker 1: they did this whole thing so that they could rob

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Speaker 1: the family and get all the money they had. That

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Speaker 1: fell apart because when they started digging through the remains

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Speaker 1: of the home they found the money. Turns out that

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Speaker 1: they had a roll of a hundred dollars in a

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Speaker 1: tin um joe. You what what was it? Uh? What

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Speaker 1: kind of I heard it was an oyster can. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so they stuck a roll a part of me like

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Speaker 1: a normal was an oyster can. They just stuffed a

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Speaker 1: roll and an oyster can and like put it in

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Speaker 1: the pantry or something. Although you know that. The thing

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Speaker 1: about it is is the original suspects maybe did do

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Speaker 1: it because they find a stash of semi burned bills

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Speaker 1: and say, well, they said they found the money. Obviously

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Speaker 1: they didn't. What if they did find some money, they

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Speaker 1: just didn't find this particular bit of money, which makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It's it's don't put all your eggs in one basket,

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Speaker 1: so you have multiple things around the house with money

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Speaker 1: in it. They could have, if Joe's right, found some

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Speaker 1: found some money and said we've struck gold. Let's like

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Speaker 1: this place up and let's get the hell out of here,

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Speaker 1: when in fact they didn't get at all. I just

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Speaker 1: the reason that I have a hard time with this

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Speaker 1: theory is like the beheading aspect, right, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of work, well a lot of work, but

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Speaker 1: it's just it is, but like why you know, you

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Speaker 1: could just stab some people and to get off with

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Speaker 1: the money and not have to you know, And I

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Speaker 1: mean cud of kids has off seems like really extreme. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and then you know one of them was I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I just it doesn't really all fit together for me.

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Speaker 1: Well you know actually that I thought about it too,

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Speaker 1: and and it's it's uh, for a robbery, it seems

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Speaker 1: a little extreme. But on the other hand, if you're

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Speaker 1: robbing them and you want to cover that up that

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Speaker 1: it was it was for robbery, it chops some heads off,

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Speaker 1: and everybody thinks while psycho killer, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: think about robbery so much. So maybe that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of my thinking on that it's to cover up the

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Speaker 1: other crime, see what I'm saying. Yeah, but I'm really

402
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Speaker 1: worried about you. You come up with these answers really

403
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Speaker 1: fastest I do. But you know, you can feel safe

404
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: because I'm kind of squeamish and I don't like making

405
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Speaker 1: big messages and spreading DNA all over the place. That

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Speaker 1: DNA stuff is really getting kind of problematical for us

407
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: criminal types. Yeah, well no, but it is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the thing is, it's not is if who if somebody

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Speaker 1: was local that did this crime, wouldn't know that there

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Speaker 1: was at least four people in that home. Three adults

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Speaker 1: and one kid into ending on whoever was over, then

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Speaker 1: they're gonna know that there's a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: the home. So it seems like an extreme way to

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Speaker 1: go about it. Um, I know, Joe, you had one,

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Speaker 1: you had one kind of side vein on this theory. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's just that in those days, you know, people have

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Speaker 1: bigger families. So your typical house probably had like fifteen

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Speaker 1: people living in it. So that wasn't what I meant. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm thinking. Enough, from the killer's point view,

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Speaker 1: it could be hardly anybody's at home, and so, uh,

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00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: that could be one aspect to it. Well it's the other.

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Speaker 1: The other idea that you when we were talking about

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Speaker 1: it is erasing a debt. Yeah, that was well, you know,

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Speaker 1: that is it. And that's what if if Jacob did

425
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: lend money, Well, first of all, we don't know if

426
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: he wasn't the local loan shark. I mean, you know,

427
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: maybe he was after like breaking kneecapping people left and right.

428
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: I said, we don't really know he lands money, so

429
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: did have a hog farm? We don't actually know. Oh

430
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: yeah that's true. But um, but if he was lending money,

431
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: it's it's there's a it's a possible thing that there

432
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: was somebody out there in the community who was actually

433
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: into him for say, you know, a thousand bucks or whatever.

434
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: And he's thinking it over and thinking, you know, it's

435
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: gonna be a long long time before I get Jacob

436
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: paid off, So why don't just go over there and

437
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: kill him and light the house on fire, so the

438
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: ledger that's got it all written down, it'll all get

439
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: burned up in the flames, and then my dad is

440
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: just magically raced kill him and his kids and cut

441
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: their heads off, you know, collateral damage. But you know,

442
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: you know I would, I would probably try to find

443
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: a way to you know, make sure that the whole

444
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is back in those days,

445
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, there were no cars or malls. You know,

446
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: the kids were always hanging around the farm. You know,

447
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: it's not like now, Yeah, that's that too, Yeah, And

448
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: so you know that could have been and he just

449
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: figured that, you know, hey, now's as good a time

450
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: as Danny. And maybe he didn't even realize little Rose

451
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: it was gonna be there. He thought he was just

452
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: gonna have to kill like four people instead of like five,

453
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, and and just one other

454
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to toss in here too. This is

455
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: an axe murder. But you know, if he really took

456
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: all the heads, we don't actually know that it was

457
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: an ex murder other than rosa because he could have

458
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: shot them all on the head. And the reason he

459
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: chopped their heads off, it's because he wanted to take

460
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: the bullets with him. You know, that's evidence, right, Yeah, no,

461
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: but you're about fifty plus years too soon for that. Yeah, yeah,

462
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: I know, but you know that's that's possibility. Yeah, oh yeah,

463
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: he could have been in time traveler. Yeah, I don't

464
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: know's anybody here. No, when actually, like you know, ballistics

465
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: evidence really came into him into like being, it seems

466
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: like it was right around this time. It was like

467
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: late nineteenth century, early twentieth century. Cool. Well yeah, alright, cool,

468
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just take the next theory doing that. My

469
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: theory is a revenge, particularly over the hog dispute um,

470
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: because you remember how when I was talking twelve years ago,

471
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: because I don't talk, I mentioned that a few days

472
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: prior to the murder, slash fire whatever situation, that Jacob

473
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: had been in court over stolen hog. That was not

474
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: just a fun fact. It was for a reason. It

475
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: was to pat up my theory. So this is how

476
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: this theory goes. Actually, Ed Anderson, one of the AIDS neighbors,

477
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: reportedly maybe stole some of the AIDS hogs or pigs,

478
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: living pork products. Ostensibly ostensibly stole some living pork products. Uh.

479
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: And this is actually a theory that's out there, and

480
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: it's super super frustrating to me because this is how

481
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: this theory goes. Well, they were in court, um, but

482
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, he cooperated and everyone like the AIDS, So

483
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. I heard the guy had a

484
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: solid alb but they but nobody ever reports the alibi,

485
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: which is again super you know, he would have been

486
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: an obvious suspect though you would think, thank you, but

487
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: you know, the reporting is always Well, the neighbors all

488
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: really like the AIDS, so it couldn't have been any

489
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: of them. I don't know. Uh. The other thing that

490
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: I guess could have happened with venge would be that

491
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: there could have been like an old feud um from Germany. Yeah,

492
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: from the old country. Yeah. I mean they've lived in

493
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: the area for twenty years, so it would have been

494
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: really old but um, I guess it's possible. Well, I

495
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: mean people did. People did flee their homelands for a

496
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: multitude of reasons, not just because they didn't like the

497
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: local government. But they were fleeing debt. It was not

498
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: an uncommon thing, so it could be that he was.

499
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about debt so far. Maybe he's

500
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: made somebody made somebody else money. Twenty years. Twenty years

501
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: is a really long time. That's a lot of interest

502
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: that day. Yes, that's true, And I don't want to

503
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: go too far down this rabbit hole because there's really

504
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: nothing to substantiate it, like at all, and there's there's

505
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: additional to that. There's like no theories on who that

506
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: might have been from the Old Country or anything else.

507
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: And we are a little bit running out of time.

508
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: Well what time is it? And Joe has a really

509
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: good theory about Matt Damon. So oh you guys are

510
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: here now, Okay, Um, Actually it's kind of kind of weak,

511
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: but it's good. He's been over everything this weekend. Yeah,

512
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: it's an awesome theory. I don't want to say it's

513
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: awesome and then have everybready been disappointed. The best theory well,

514
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, what if this was like an

515
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,479
Speaker 1: actual serial killer who did this. And I'm sure all

516
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: of you guys have heard of the Midwest axvan have you? Okay?

517
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: And the Midwest guy? Uh, he ranged actually all the

518
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: way from outside the Midwest he started. The first one

519
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: known outside of this one was Portland, Oregon. The loose

520
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: term of Midwest, I guess, yeah, yeah, I don't know

521
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: when they actually settled on a definition for the bid West,

522
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: so you know it might have applied then. But he

523
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: ranged all the way from there, so as far as

524
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: east this Monmouth, Illinois. Uh. These all took place between

525
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: June nineteen eleven and June, but there was there was

526
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: a lot that connected those two. I mean he had

527
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: a typical emma. Was he attack a family that lived

528
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: near the railroad tracks, so like five or six blocks

529
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: maybe from the railroad tracks, which led people to think

530
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: he traveled by rail um usually well actually always did.

531
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: The family had just an ax laying around in the

532
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: yard that he would just pick up and go in

533
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: and kill, which was typical of those days. That's usually

534
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: how X murders operated in those days, actually, because everybody

535
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: had an ax laid around in their yard. More that

536
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: than the axe murderers part. Yeah, that too, Yeah, but

537
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: oh god, what else? He had a typical thing of

538
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: like lighting an oil lamp, and he would take the

539
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: chimney off and bend the wick ninety degrees before lighting it,

540
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: which I guess was not standard operating procedure back in

541
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: those days. And so and so there, and and we

542
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: cover the windows usually, and so there was a lot

543
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: connecting all those murders. But in this case, of course,

544
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell because the house burned down, so

545
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: all that evidence was destroyed. There was a very famous

546
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: one that was under that. There was another one too

547
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: that I think was done by the Midwest AxMan was

548
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: of course, you guys have heard of Willissa, Iowa Willissa

549
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: axe murders. That also. There was a lot of similarities

550
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: there too, So I think, you know, but can we

551
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: tie this one to it? I'm not sure. Um, Well,

552
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: there were don't there were no railroad tracks nearby, um,

553
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: so that kind of and he didn't usually burn the

554
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: house down, um. And of course he didn't take heads

555
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: in the earth, you know, in the later murders, So

556
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: that's kind of a difference. It seems like an escalation too. Yeah,

557
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: the taking of the heads. Yeah, like, if if this

558
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: one happened after those, I would be more willing to

559
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: say that it could be connected. But taking heads and

560
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: then not taking heads anymore seems like a de escalation

561
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: to me. Well, you know, um my thinking is that

562
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: he took he took some souvenirs the first time out

563
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: and were on for a little bit, and he started

564
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: smelling bad, and he decided the whole idea was overrated,

565
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: and so that's why he never did it again. That's

566
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: that's kind of where I'm thinking. What do you guys

567
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: think of that theory? Get your name? Yeah already, okay,

568
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: one single? Yeah, alright, we're on the right track. It

569
00:31:54,680 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 1: was kind of faint, but I'll but so, yeah, I

570
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: don't know. So I'm trying to think it's not related

571
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: to the Midwest ax man. Of course, that doesn't mean

572
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't another serial killer. I mean back in those days, uh,

573
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have the inner webs and national TV,

574
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: national TV news networks and stuff, so we didn't you know,

575
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: we didn't have Nancy Grace. No, she was not want

576
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: to be born for another ten years. Just getting Nancy.

577
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: If you're listening, I love I love Nancy. Yeah, so

578
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, but maybe, I mean I could I could

579
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: imagine maybe this guy goes out commits a psychoax killing,

580
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, and then maybe uh like goes into the

581
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: military for a while and just goes overseas and kills

582
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: for Uncle Sam or something, and eventually like it comes

583
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: out of the military, goes back to wherever and then

584
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: just decides, hey, you know, I'm about to do more

585
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: of this, and so that could have been it. But

586
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: otherwise it's kind of hard to account for that big

587
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: long gap. So we well, we what story do we

588
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: talked about that? Um, it was the grim Sleeper where

589
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: he was he was, you know, he was really really prolific,

590
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: and then things changed in his life and his his

591
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: relationship at home got better and he had a couple

592
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: of kids, and he literally didn't have the time to

593
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: do the killing. So you know, people were spared from

594
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: the wrath that he was. And I mean, it's entirely

595
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: possible that that's what's going on with this guy. If

596
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: the Unified acts murder killer theories, right, yeah, what's it?

597
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: You know, who knows it could be? I mean, you

598
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: don't know what's going on in this guy's life. He

599
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: might have committed this crime and gone on and done

600
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: something else, like murdered some other guy in apute, gone

601
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: off to prison for a while, and then he gets

602
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: out around nineteen eleven and decides to start killing people again.

603
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. So anyway, that's about the end of

604
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: that theory for me. Anybody else got any theories? Yes,

605
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: man in the back, Well, we gotta we gotta, we

606
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: gotta volunteer theory. Hey, we've got microphones by the way. Yeah,

607
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if those are two and are not

608
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: a man running towards you. So I want to look

609
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: at him, turn around, let him deal with it, turn around,

610
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: or just turn around playing with Oh my god, look

611
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: I do test one too. Guys, I don't know. Hey,

612
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: what's your name? My name is Justin. Just he did it? Hey,

613
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 1: that's my theory is Justin did it. I like it.

614
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: He's the neighbor. Maybe they didn't clean up their grass

615
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: clippings and he got mad about it. Well, you know

616
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: those neighbors that don't that don't weed their yards, and

617
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: you've got all those little dandie lamp puff balls out

618
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: there that are going to blow over into your yard.

619
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: And then you got to be caught off all their heads. Yeah, yeah, Joe,

620
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: and he knew that they had meat in the house

621
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: and money. It was the meat, right, that's why you

622
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: did it. Well, that's why Justin did it, neighbor Justin right,

623
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: think think and Justin did it? Why he was the

624
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: first one that came across the bodies. That's a good point.

625
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: First one on the scene does get to say what happened? Yeah?

626
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: Any other anybody else? And he had all the time

627
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: in the world. What are the clues do you have?

628
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: This is Acam's razor. It's just the simplest explanation. And

629
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: you were saying that I was doing it the entire time,

630
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go with that. You're taking credit for

631
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: it makes sense. I'm not a hundred and something years old,

632
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: and are you are? Can you show us proof? And uh,

633
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: he didn't cut their heads off for bullets because ballistics

634
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: evidence didn't come into effect until about You just googled that,

635
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: didn't you. Yeah know, he knows that from the alienist.

636
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I think that's probably true, although you know

637
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: it could have been. He just wanted you know, he

638
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: owned a forty five and he thought Wow, they're gonna

639
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: have forty five caliber sized holes in their heads, so

640
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,479
Speaker 1: why don't I just whack their heads up until yeah, yeah,

641
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: Oh suddenly everyone knows now when we asked, but when

642
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: Justin asked, very good, thank you, Justin. I want to

643
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: point out, yeah, for Justin, I I do want to

644
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: point out to one. The one thing to support support

645
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: is theory is that Justin are not nour Justin here,

646
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: but the other one actually was holding him a sharp

647
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: agricultural implement in his hands when everybody saw him. You know,

648
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 1: so there you go, case closed. Is that how that happened?

649
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: I thought he dropped it and ran away. I you know,

650
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what really happened. We're just admitting we

651
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: have no idea what we're talking about. That is that

652
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: is the hardest part about the story is the reporting

653
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: is super super spotty, and even the reporting at the

654
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: time because you can you can you know, they scan

655
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: the old clippings and it varies from paper to paper

656
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: to paper, and these papers are within a day or

657
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: two of each other. So this story really just kind

658
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: of got blurred really really fast, which is why we

659
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: picked it because and nobody can prove us wrong. On

660
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,959
Speaker 1: anything in this one. It's it's you know, somebody really

661
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: wanted to go, like go look at courthouse records and

662
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: find old police and court records and stuff. They could

663
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: probably get a lot more, assuming those things haven't been

664
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: lost or you know, one up in a fire or

665
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: something like that. There might be more information out there.

666
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: So far, nobody's been interested enough to go out there,

667
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: and actually no, there has been some people that have

668
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: looked into it. But it uh Rosa's dad. Apparently he

669
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: was French. That's that's somehow was determined based on her

670
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: the sound of her name. But people who have gone

671
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: through the records have combed through them and they've never

672
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: been able to figure out exactly who he is. So

673
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: we don't even know his first name, we don't even

674
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: know their last name. It's just it just went off

675
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,959
Speaker 1: the rails that fast. So alas any other theories out there,

676
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: oh we got up front here, all right, let's hear him,

677
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: not see him. I don't want to see any theories

678
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: about acts murders. If the heads were missing and the

679
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: bodies were burned, do we have a positive identification? Do

680
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: we know that those were all the actual dead people?

681
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: As I possible. Maybe the husband killed the wife and

682
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: they took all the heads stide, Uh, the fact that

683
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: the male body wasn't his. I don't know how the

684
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: idea of the bodies. That's a good point. You know

685
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: that the family could have like you know, murdered another

686
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: family and then skipped skipped down to start a new life.

687
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: It was actually Rosa's dad was actually Jacob. Yeah, yeah,

688
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: so that's actually good theory. I like that they certainly

689
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: couldn't use DNA, could they. Yeah, we have another Yeah,

690
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: so related to the heads, do we know how long

691
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: it took between the neighbor showing up because it kind

692
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: of seemed like he was like looting their house. Yeah,

693
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: it's it's like, you know, it's customary in those days

694
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: to loot the smoke house. Yeah, I mean, like, you

695
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: know he's there, he you know, goes and loots, and

696
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: you have to assume if he's like going to save

697
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: the meat from burning, he's also going to take that

698
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: back to his place. And maybe he had like birth

699
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: and then he went and got the dad. And so

700
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there was enough time that passed between

701
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: the actual like when the fire went out from the

702
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: storm and when they actually showed back up there and

703
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: then they milled around and you know, eventually the police

704
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: get there. But what if the house had actually been

705
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: scavenged by animals, because animals go for the head first. Um,

706
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: but like maybe there'd been like a pack of coyotes

707
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: or something and they by it took some heads and

708
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: you know, dragged them off to go and have a

709
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: mid morning snack, and so maybe it wasn't even an

710
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 1: actual like beheading. They actually just it's just the coyotes

711
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: came by and chewed the heads off. I mean apparently

712
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: that's like common and gross. But yeah, I don't think

713
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: we know how much time. The only thing that I

714
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: would say with that, and again this is like frustrating reporting,

715
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: is that they seem to really it's it's like they

716
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: were cut off and they think a you know, like

717
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: would be a little war in early but again they

718
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: were burned also, And also we don't know anything at all.

719
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: Sorry everybody. Uh oh, we have another theory here. Sorry.

720
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: It was both uh boy or that two boy and

721
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: a girl. Yeah them was twenty and it was a daughter.

722
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: One of them was thirteen. It was a son, and

723
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: then there was the ten year old neighbor who was

724
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: a girl ten year old, was twenty year old male.

725
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: Twenty year old twenty year old female, young boy. Yeah,

726
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: she shouldn't have been there. Yeah, over there was piste

727
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: off killed the law. Yeah, and then his daughter saw

728
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: it and she was kill His old showed him up

729
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: back at the scene and the other guy stealing meat.

730
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: So he's like that guy most guilty. Hey, Joe, Yeah, Joe,

731
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not as uncomfortable around you. This scares me.

732
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: I kind of like the way you think my ten

733
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: year old daughter was at some house was all growing

734
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: up to a young boy that Adams ninth, eighteen nineties,

735
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: and that stuff wasn't appropriate for her young girl to

736
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: be around. They got married fourteen years old. Maybe thought

737
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: she was tainted family. Yeah, an honor killing. Yeah, I

738
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: don't know if honor killings were big in the back

739
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: of the day. Yeah. It is either that or evidence

740
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: covering up but you know, or hey yeah, okay, Oh

741
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: another theory. My theory is that it was someone who

742
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: was very upset about the hogs, and perhaps they fed

743
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: the heads to the hogs. Yeah, it's a good theory. Yeah,

744
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how quickly that's the last ditch effort

745
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: to get in that last punch, like screw you. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

746
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: we're recording, so I won't say what I Yeah, it

747
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: does seem a final act of disrespect to feed the

748
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: heads to the hogs. I'm not sure how quickly a

749
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: hog or a group of hawks could could munch down

750
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: some human skulls. I don't I don't know. Apparently, according

751
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 1: to TV it's really fast, really like five minutes start

752
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: to finish. Seriously. Okay, well, thank you for that theory,

753
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: and it's hardly possible. Yeah, toss the head to the hogs.

754
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: That is rude, rude. It's all right. So we're talking

755
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: late nineteenth century, right, and we're talking missing livestock. So

756
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: my thought is our favorite villain is trying to establish

757
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: his identity. Oh you know who wanted oh you know.

758
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: And we also know this this individual has a well

759
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: established smoking habit. Yeah. That's a good point, very dangerous

760
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: in a would eight nineties structure. So I'm just saying,

761
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: maybe this was a warning to the family not to

762
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: look too far into the Choopy family, the good one. Yeah,

763
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: I like the theory they are so maybe the aid said,

764
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, maybe Jacob was like, you know, like investigating

765
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: Choopy and shoop Be decided you know, yeah, he had

766
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: to take him out. I like that there of course

767
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: like that. And there is another theory, which is aliens.

768
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: Why it was? It was just why wait, do you

769
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: want to go into that anymore? Bars? No, No, you're good.

770
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: I think I'm good. Yeah, alright, any other theories, theories?

771
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: More series? Okay, hang on, Oh we've got like we've

772
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: got time, so we got we'll wrap up the episode.

773
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: Thank you all for coming. We're not going to quit

774
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: this though. Do you have any other general questions? Feel

775
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: free to ask, but don't do it all at once.

776
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: Come on, people, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna have it.

777
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: I've got a question, said, don't Does anybody want to

778
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: just come up here and sit here? And we've got

779
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: a question. We've got a question. Question. Hi, um, maybe

780
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: you've answered this before, but I'm just wondering why your

781
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: favorite mystery that you guys have looked into favorite mystery,

782
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: we've looked into our favorite episode. We've done you know what,

783
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 1: either however you want to respond, however you want to respond,

784
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: go ahead, Yeah I do. And my answer to both

785
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: of them is like City Quiet Pills. I think that's

786
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,479
Speaker 1: probably the best episode I'll ever do in my entire life.

787
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: I don't think so, Devin. I think you'll do better.

788
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: But also I still get like emails from people who

789
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: are like, well, I had this weird experience, and it's

790
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: just like I don't like, I do not like what's

791
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: going on at all there. So that's my answer I

792
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: would say if for me, if it's a story that

793
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: we've covered, it's a split between Blair Adams and Ben McDaniels,

794
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: because both of those have a lot of W two

795
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: T F moments in them. And are we recording anymore?

796
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: Do you just I didn't say anything bad, I used

797
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: letters saying and okay, now kids gonna know what that means. Okay,

798
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: I really can't make up my mind. Actually, just as

799
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, some of you probably know, we just a

800
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: year and a half ago to the thing about the

801
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: murder of Martha Moxley, and now that's back in the news,

802
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: so that sort of kicks it up in my estimation

803
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: a little bit. Michael skekill was conviction was over termed

804
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: by the Connecticut Supreme Court, and so that's kind of

805
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: interesting that that's the story that most of these stories

806
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: are done and over and you know, pretty much in

807
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: the can, and this one keeps on given. So that's

808
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: kind of cool. Um, And let's see what else. I mean.

809
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: I kind of liked some of the boat mysteries. The

810
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: Herbert Poller was one what we did in the last

811
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: year and now, I don't know if you guys remember

812
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: that story. There was a triple ax murder on this

813
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: sailing ship in the middle of the ocean. It's Apropos

814
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 1: today's story. Yeah, yeah, And it's a cool story because

815
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: these guys are like, you know, three people are asked

816
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: to death, and so that everybody else is in the

817
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, there's there's you know, they're a week

818
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: away from anywhere, and there's a murderer among them. And

819
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: on top of that, besides being scared about getting killed,

820
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 1: they're all sort of quietly pointing fingers at one another

821
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: two because everybody's paranoid about getting blamed for the crime.

822
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 1: And so I thought that was a really cool story,

823
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, and it's got to do with shifts and

824
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So I like that one. I hope

825
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: you guys liked it to if you didn't listen to it.

826
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: You go listen to it. You just actually heard it. Yeah,

827
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: that's pretty much. Actually it's a good points. Yeah, you're welcome.

828
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 1: You always thought about the scripts that you use, and

829
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: I just want it never sounds like you're on a script.

830
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: This is what they look like. How much do you

831
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: actually you do really write it all out? And then

832
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: the story we just did was five and then Joe

833
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: ignores it comes out I kind of all it really

834
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: does sound off the cuff. Well. So basically what we

835
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 1: do is we'll write like an essay about the story

836
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: each week if it's so, if it's your week to hope,

837
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: write the essay, the essay the script, and then we

838
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: have copies in front of it, and we done are

839
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: in front of us while recording, and we've done research

840
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 1: hopefully um over the last couple of weeks, and then

841
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: we kind of so we all know it, but we

842
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: have a reference point if we need to call any

843
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: information up, and then we try to generally follow the script.

844
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: But um sometimes yeah, sometimes it goes really well and

845
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: sometimes it does not go very well. Do you really

846
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: rehearse it or do you know we only rehearse these

847
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: live shows because we can edit the other ones. We

848
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: just look worried about looking dumb in front of real people.

849
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: Do you talk about do you talk about it a

850
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: lot before you do the podcast, or do you want

851
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: it to be fresh so you we don't Joe likes

852
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: to stand around and try and talk about the story.

853
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: I don't like Jojo save it, save it, yeah, because

854
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: we never remember to say it again. Yeah, it's good points,

855
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: but yeah, the scripts are great, just but they're mostly

856
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: there to make sure we tell the story in the

857
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: right order and we don't leave anything out. But other

858
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: than that, it's just like, man, you know, yeah, another question.

859
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: I just wondered his life changed it all for all

860
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 1: since you made yourselves public lusture not really a little.

861
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm still still fairly we're all still fairly obscure, you know.

862
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I just was it just like it

863
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: was Friday? I guess no, Thursday. Um. We were out

864
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think Jacob and Air and

865
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: a few other people were out and this really attracted

866
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: blonde has your phone? I was like, oh, I want

867
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: to take a picture. I want to take a picture

868
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: of you all, you know, so I'm ready to go

869
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: and go step over and be photographing and she hands

870
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: the camera to me and said the picture. I said, Okay,

871
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: that happened. Yeah, that happened with the captain recently. We

872
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: were out like getting drinks and they're like, you know,

873
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: you guys have seen what happens when he's out. And

874
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: some girl was like, oh, I'm sorry, are you waiting

875
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: in line? And I was like, no, we're going to

876
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: get a drink. No, it's yeah, we don't get I

877
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: don't get recognized. Really, it's just is like online comments

878
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,479
Speaker 1: to change my appearance. That's why the beard happened in hiding.

879
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: Now you count all off. It's people people do stare

880
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 1: at me, but they were doing that before, So yeah,

881
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: I think so it hasn't really changed things for me

882
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: Hi him. Before the case of the Golden State Killer

883
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: was solved, what was your leading theory? Um, this is

884
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: this is going to disappoint every single person in this room.

885
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: But I didn't really have any theories about it, um,

886
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: because it wasn't a case that I really poured any

887
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: time into. It's it's it's let's put it this way.

888
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: The case is ikey, it's gross. Yeah, there's not something

889
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: that I don't think any of us like to sit

890
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: and dwell on that. And there's a number of cases

891
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: like that where there's some pretty horrendous things that happen,

892
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: and sometimes for us, we're always kind of in the

893
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: trenches with that stuff. And so those really big ones,

894
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: it's just easier kind of set him aside, build an

895
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: ice brick wall around them, and think him in the

896
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: ocean and never think about it again. Because but Joe

897
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: might have some theories. Do you have some series? Uh?

898
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: Not really now I have. I looked into the case

899
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: a little bit and read some of the history, and

900
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,720
Speaker 1: my first thought was because when we look at a story,

901
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: or at least when I do, I think, Okay, is

902
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: this story got a really good hook to it? Is

903
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: there's something really interesting about it? Because not every murder

904
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: is interesting, Frankly, I hate to hate to put it

905
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: that way, but they're not. And so I said, is

906
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: there something interesting? And also the next thing as well,

907
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: can I cramming a really good elucidation of the entire

908
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: thing in an hour or two, an hour and a

909
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: half episode? And when you look at this one, oh

910
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: my god, this guy was just like you know, he

911
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: was prolific. I mean, for a long time, and so

912
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: just going through the descriptions of his crime would have

913
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: taken at least an hour and a half, and there's

914
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: no time for given theories. And that's one of the

915
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: reasons I set this one aside. It's just just so big.

916
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: Some of these stories are just so big that and

917
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: we're not serial. You know, we were serial, you know,

918
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: it would be a little easier to do. But and

919
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: so if you want to fund us, so yeah, and

920
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: so I never ruled it out totally. I just sort

921
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: of set it aside and said, I'm not sure, set

922
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: that one aside. Sorry, we're not the true crime words

923
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: everyone wants us to be. I'm sorry. I seriously have

924
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: thought every now and again, I'm thinking what to do,

925
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: and I'll look at oh yeah, there's that one, you know,

926
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: and then and I and I did it again recently,

927
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden it's solved. Okay, I

928
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: crossed off the list. Glad we didn't do it, unless

929
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: it turns out the police screwed up, which is also

930
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: possible to that never happens, thank you ever. Hi. Hello,

931
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: So this is my first time listening to you guys.

932
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry if you've already entered this, but also

933
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: you're awesome, Thank you, thank you. My question is what

934
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: first got you guys interested in true crime? Well, I

935
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: for me, it's not true crime, it's unsolved mysteries. And

936
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: I think the like question mark is really enticing to me.

937
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: I grew up watching the Unsolved Mysteries show and listening

938
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: to Art Bell. Uh, and you know that that I

939
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: think really just kind of informed that drive. I don't know,

940
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: there are some cases that we covered really really early on, um,

941
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: like the tom and food and the lead mass case,

942
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: and these just really bizarre things from history that just

943
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: it's how do you answer that? It's just so weird? Um,

944
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: And just trying to figure those things out was just

945
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: really enticing to me. So, um, that's what drew me

946
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: to this whole universe. I would say that works. Yeah,

947
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: I'll say, I'll see, didn't do that? What's that? So?

948
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's a cup out? You can't do that? Okay, fine,

949
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know exactly. I mean I

950
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: read a lot of Sherlock Holmes and stuff like that

951
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, you know, and but I've

952
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 1: never really been a true grand fanatic. My entire life

953
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: but now, and then we decided to do a podcast.

954
00:52:50,760 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: Sorry right contemporary It's okay, okay, uh yeah, yeah, thanks

955
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: to the questions. Uh. And then just after we started

956
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: doing the podcast and and doing the mystery stuff, I

957
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 1: got much more back into it, you know, more like

958
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, and so it's been very fun.

959
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: I really enjoy this stuff. Turn So this is you

960
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: ever have those things where you're a kid and your

961
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: family does something and it drives you absolutely crazy, and

962
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: then one day you realize you're doing it. My family

963
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: would sit around and they would just chew the fat

964
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: about things and just keep doing it. And you know,

965
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: I could play my Nintendo and I didn't want to

966
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: think about it and stopped talking. And then one day

967
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: I started reading these things and going, oh, well what

968
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: about and I would find myself I'm sure as these

969
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: two would you just sit there for days and days

970
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: and days just chewing through it and trying to come

971
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: up with theories, and hours and hours and hours for me,

972
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: but well, you've got short attention to spend m But

973
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's really how it worked for me.

974
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: There was something hypnotic about that, you know, it's like

975
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 1: sometimes when I'm actually doing this stuff, I can actually like,

976
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: you know, most of my other compulsions, like you know,

977
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: caffeine or you know whatever, nicotine, I just they just

978
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: get set to the side. You know. It's like not

979
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: most things don't make me overlook those things. But sometimes

980
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: when I'm hot, on the tail of a hot mystery,

981
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: I can even like I can stop, you know, I

982
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: can even neglect some of my other things, my o,

983
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: their addictions. You're talking about your job. We all do

984
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: the job too. Yeah, more questions anyone now, okay, okay, well,

985
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: now alight, time for some impersonations. Okay, oh Joe, you

986
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: are so sexy. Okay, any others? All right, Well, thank

987
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: you everybody. Did you come and enjoy crash On? Thank you,

988
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Now, hold on, guys, this has

989
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: been going good, and we're recording this so we're gonna

990
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: release this on the show. So we're gonna show you

991
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: how the magic of podcasting works. So bear with me.

992
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: But first let's take a break. This is when we

993
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom. You can't go to the bathroom

994
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: yet now and we're back. I know, it's amazing, it's

995
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: totally amazing. It sounds different when you hear it on

996
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: the podcast. That'll be a really cool ad. In the middle,

997
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: there'll be some great music in there. Listeners made that

998
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: for us, love that music.