Speaker 1: All media. Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2: It's me James today and I'm joined by gorjin Jedmai
Speaker 2: from HENGL, the human rights organization. Also a journalist who's
Speaker 2: worked for the Kurdish Peace Institute who we've had on
Speaker 2: the show before, who I've also worked with, and the
Speaker 2: founder of the Kurtis Dan People's page on Instagram. Welcome
Speaker 2: to the show, Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm so glad
Speaker 3: to be here today with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, and what we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: today is Rodia Lat or Eastern Kurdistan and how this
Speaker 2: figures into I guess what's happening currently in Iran.
Speaker 1: What has been happening in Iran, And like.
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to give a little more
Speaker 2: explanation and background on particularly the different ethnic groups in
Speaker 2: Iran than people generally get when they can consume legacy
Speaker 2: media here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if I want to talk about this, like,
Speaker 3: we need to talk about the history of at least
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty one hundred fifty years, so it's
Speaker 3: really a lot. But today's structure of what we know
Speaker 3: as Iran is made up of several different ethnic groups
Speaker 3: from Persians, Turks, I mean Ozerbaijani Turks, Turkmands, Heerds, Baluchi's, Ahwazi,
Speaker 3: Arabs and so many others. But I would say the
Speaker 3: dominant population, the dominant ethnic group, and the dominant aulture
Speaker 3: and language is definitely Persians. Yeah. And if I want
Speaker 3: to be more clear, this dominant ethnic group has been
Speaker 3: exploding and colonizing and destroying all the lands and the
Speaker 3: communities and societies from non Persian regions including Kurdistan, Baluchistan, Azerbaijan,
Speaker 3: Ahawas and many other regions in this biographical region paul Iran.
Speaker 3: And this mainly started during the former monarchy Pahlavis, and
Speaker 3: it was intensified after the nineteen seventy nine Islamic Revolution
Speaker 3: led by Ayatu la Romeni, and as usual, the Kurdish
Speaker 3: people were the first to stand against this newly established regime.
Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy nine, a few months after the so
Speaker 3: called revolution, the Kurds were demanding their rights, specifically the
Speaker 3: right to self determination and also federalism, which was responded
Speaker 3: by a heavy hit by heavy attacks and under the
Speaker 3: jihad order of Ayatu la Romeni, which led to the
Speaker 3: massacre of tens of thousands of civilians and destructions of
Speaker 3: several hundred villages and mass executions of Kurdish people across
Speaker 3: the what we know as Eastern Kurdistan or Roshalat. And
Speaker 3: following that the oppression continued, and also it was done
Speaker 3: against other ethnic groups, specifically Baluchi's and also the Awazi
Speaker 3: Arabs and also the Azerbaijani Turks, but in Kurdistan and
Speaker 3: Baluchistan it has always been more intense and more brutal.
Speaker 3: And then in late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties
Speaker 3: they killed two of the Kurdish leaders, doctor Abdur Rahman
Speaker 3: Kasumlu and doctor shut Off Candy in Europe during some
Speaker 3: negotiations and thus ended up in kurt being in a
Speaker 3: worse situation. And then until around early two thousands, I
Speaker 3: think around two thousand and four or three, the PKK
Speaker 3: built or established its wing in Rochalat known as the
Speaker 3: Free Kurdistan Party or Pajak sorry Free Kurdistan Life Party
Speaker 3: in Rochalot. And then but unfortunately this party was not
Speaker 3: really as strong as the KDPI or Komala that were
Speaker 3: already in the fight with the with the Iranian states.
Speaker 3: Since nineteen forty six and so on. This oppression has
Speaker 3: been just intensifying by mass execution of Kurdish people, the
Speaker 3: mass execution of the political prisoners and activists, and imprisonment
Speaker 3: of the different people in the Kurdish society from language
Speaker 3: teachers to environmental activists to children, women, anyone, and this
Speaker 3: whole impression that I've been mentioning about, like that that's
Speaker 3: happening in East Kurdistan. It has also resulted in a
Speaker 3: humanitarian phenomenon called kulba. Pullbars are a group of people
Speaker 3: that are extremely underprivileged. They have no access to anything,
Speaker 3: so they are somehow forced to go into some sort
Speaker 3: of work that they have to carry goods between the
Speaker 3: borders of East Kurdistan and South Kurdistan or North Kurdistan
Speaker 3: specifically between Iraq, Iran and Turkey. And every year we
Speaker 3: have numbers in our organizations you can check. We have
Speaker 3: a specific statistics section for these col wars. Every year
Speaker 3: hundreds of them get killed. Just for example, in since
Speaker 3: the beginning of twenty twenty five, twenty two of them
Speaker 3: have been killed and injured. And among these people there
Speaker 3: are children, women, old people. So this is also another
Speaker 3: form of oppression that this regime has been using. Again
Speaker 3: start people, because this is actually one of the biggest
Speaker 3: forms of oppression, if I want to talk about it.
Speaker 3: There are over one hundred and fifty thousand coal bars
Speaker 3: in East Kurdistan that are somehow into this type of
Speaker 3: work because they have no other means of income, and
Speaker 3: the government, the Ringing government actually like limitits all the
Speaker 3: if I want to call it economic developments in East Kurdistan.
Speaker 3: This has been going on for decades. And then we
Speaker 3: come to twenty nineteen again there was another so I
Speaker 3: want to call it uprising or master tests across Iran
Speaker 3: when the regime killed over one five hundred people. I
Speaker 3: mean before that, there were also tests almost every year,
Speaker 3: but that was like one of the biggest one. It
Speaker 3: was in November twenty nineteen, and they cut down the
Speaker 3: internet for twelve days. I remember I was at the
Speaker 3: university at that time. And then they killed one thy
Speaker 3: five hundred people, specifically so many people in Kurdistan. They
Speaker 3: even throw that kills people into like lakes and rivers,
Speaker 3: and then after like months and days people found the
Speaker 3: bodies like in the nature jeeze. And then we come
Speaker 3: to twenty twenty two in September when they the morality
Speaker 3: police killed Gina Amini, the Kurdish woman who was apparently
Speaker 3: not wearing a proper hijab or the Islamic cloth or
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it. She was killed by
Speaker 3: the Iranian morality police in Tehran, which led to the
Speaker 3: as we know it. I don't know if you can
Speaker 3: call it a revolution or uprising or just mass tests
Speaker 3: called Jhinjiana Zadi or women life Freedom movement. And this
Speaker 3: also again because it was inspired by Kurtz the first
Speaker 3: victim was occurred again. Obviously it started in Kurdistan and
Speaker 3: it spread so fast. Just in a few days, the
Speaker 3: entire Kurdish cities were testing, and then it was followed
Speaker 3: by other Iranian cities like Tehran. She was but it
Speaker 3: was not as intense as in Kurdistan. I think it was.
Speaker 3: Three days after her death, the Kurdish parties Katipi and
Speaker 3: Komala and some others that are not very well known
Speaker 3: like pak and also Pajak or the Free Life Kurdistan Party,
Speaker 3: they announced a general strike across Kurdistan and they called
Speaker 3: on people to close down everything and go on a
Speaker 3: full lockdown to protest the killing of Gina Amini, which
Speaker 3: was responded by I think over one hundred missiles or
Speaker 3: something from the IRGC and the Iranian regime and it
Speaker 3: killed I think eighteen if I'm not wrong, but it
Speaker 3: killed several people in the camps belonging to these parties
Speaker 3: in today's Iraqi Kurdistan where as we call it South Kurdistan.
Speaker 3: There were also like family members of the Kurdish politicians
Speaker 3: and Kurdish Pishmarga that were in those refugee camps that
Speaker 3: are also supported by the UN. They were killed there
Speaker 3: and then the protests just got intensified. And I was
Speaker 3: also there. We were reporting every day about all the
Speaker 3: things that were happening. Also, the Baluchi people joined the protests.
Speaker 3: And at the same time of those days, a fifteen
Speaker 3: years old Baluchi girl was raped and killed by an
Speaker 3: IRGC commander or member in Baluchistan, and people also protested that.
Speaker 3: And there was a Friday which is known as the
Speaker 3: Bloody Friday of Zahidan. People in Baluchistan. They went to
Speaker 3: a big mosque in the city of Zahidan and they
Speaker 3: were doing their Friday prayers as Mauslims, and then they
Speaker 3: started protesting. And this was responded by the Iranian regime
Speaker 3: forces and over one hundred people were massacred on that day,
Speaker 3: which also led to mass execution of more political and
Speaker 3: just random prisoners in Baluchistan. The protests just went on
Speaker 3: and there was a really heavy repression so far, I
Speaker 3: think over maybe between five hundred to six hundred people
Speaker 3: were killed. These are like the official ones, and also
Speaker 3: several other of these protesters, specifically from Kurtiston were executed.
Speaker 3: Some of them were executed in public to spread more
Speaker 3: fear among people, but people were not given up. And
Speaker 3: then it continued until twenty twenty three. I think it
Speaker 3: was around maybe in March, I'm not really remembering the
Speaker 3: exact date, but it was also in twenty twenty three
Speaker 3: that they started attacking schools, like girls' schools, with some
Speaker 3: sort of gases that nobody actually knows that what type
Speaker 3: of chemical gases they were using, and unfortunately we have them,
Speaker 3: like we've reported on. Then some school children, like some kids,
Speaker 3: they were killed by these gases, and they were specifically
Speaker 3: targeting a girls school because they are like separate, they
Speaker 3: don't they're not together in the Iranian system.
Speaker 1: Integrate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then this went on and people were still protesting,
Speaker 3: but unfortunately it somehow stopped. And if I wanted to
Speaker 3: analyze that and related to like to talk about the reasons.
Speaker 3: One of the main reasons I think also many other
Speaker 3: political activists and analysts also agree on that that the opposition,
Speaker 3: but as we know as the Iranian opposition was not
Speaker 3: truly united. Yeah, there was a huge effort specifically from
Speaker 3: the Kurdish parties like Comala and Abdullah Motadi. They tried
Speaker 3: to create some sort of collaboration with the so called
Speaker 3: Iranian oppositions, specifically the monarchists like the Pahlavis and some
Speaker 3: other groups. But unfortunately these groups, I mean it was
Speaker 3: in the middle of an uprising, like a movement that
Speaker 3: hasn't been happening since maybe forty years. Instead of working
Speaker 3: together for a common goal like the Iranian opposition groups
Speaker 3: specifically the Parlavis and also the other ones like if
Speaker 3: I want to say, like the Massy and like all
Speaker 3: the people that work with her, instead of working towards
Speaker 3: a common goal, they started discriminating against minorities. They started
Speaker 3: ignoring and denying and also censoring the minorities, the same
Speaker 3: minorities that were the most active against the regime that
Speaker 3: had the biggest number of sacrifices in the protests and
Speaker 3: also in prisons. They just started spreading their own typical
Speaker 3: national I mean, I would even call them ultra nationalistic sentiments.
Speaker 3: And for example, if I want to give one of
Speaker 3: the biggest things that we always talk about, these people
Speaker 3: who are apparently against the regime, they have some red lines,
Speaker 3: and their main red line has always been the so
Speaker 3: called Iranian territorial integrity. So like these type of sentiments
Speaker 3: and discussions, it's somehow created like a lot of mistrust
Speaker 3: between the Kurdish groups, the Baluchi groups. Also like with
Speaker 3: Hawazi Arabs and Azerbaijani Turks and all these groups, they
Speaker 3: couldn't trust each other because the dominant group, the Persians
Speaker 3: or the Iranians or those who identify as Iranians, they
Speaker 3: ignored us, They ignored our suffering, they ignored our identity.
Speaker 3: They were just repeating what the regime has been saying
Speaker 3: since over forty years, but in a different form. So
Speaker 3: this somehow created a lot of mistrust and also the
Speaker 3: people inside, Like I was there when that was happening,
Speaker 3: and I was working non stop every day of recording, writing, texting,
Speaker 3: being on interviews, the people actually lost their hope because
Speaker 3: there was no united position, there was no united structure
Speaker 3: to say that, yeah, we're advocating for you. I mean,
Speaker 3: in the first few months it was really great. For example,
Speaker 3: here in Germany they had a very big demonstration and
Speaker 3: over eighty thousand people from all across Europe. They traveled
Speaker 3: to Berlin for that demonstration. It was great, and all
Speaker 3: the groups from Iranians, turks, Arabs, Balucci is like everybody
Speaker 3: was there. But unfortunately following that, the people like specifically
Speaker 3: who's a Palavi, the so called crown Prince of Iran?
Speaker 3: Who is another like his story is like very also
Speaker 3: like crazy, yeah, he and his group and his circle,
Speaker 3: and also people like Massi al Najatte And I would
Speaker 3: say all the celebrities because they are not truly they
Speaker 3: are politicians. They have no political study they have they
Speaker 3: haven't done any specific political work. They are just celebrities.
Speaker 3: Like Nazni Bulgnadi she played in some movies. Yeah she's
Speaker 3: a really great actress, but not a good politician. Like
Speaker 3: these things that celebrities who truly don't understand or they
Speaker 3: don't want to understand what people inside Kurtistan, Iran and
Speaker 3: Baluchis don't want They pretended to be our voices and
Speaker 3: they never listened to us. And then this just made
Speaker 3: a lot of distraws and a lot of also hate
Speaker 3: between the people. Yeah, so that's why I can say
Speaker 3: that it just failed after that, And unfortunately many many
Speaker 3: of the people who were arrested during that time, they
Speaker 3: are still in jail, and just a few days ago
Speaker 3: five of them were sentenced to death and we made
Speaker 3: a report about them. So like every day did they
Speaker 3: get sentenced to death? And I person know many of
Speaker 3: these people who were injured and they are now here
Speaker 3: in Germany. They were brought here but by some human
Speaker 3: turing visas. Some of them are my friends. So like
Speaker 3: it just failed. At the same time, I also have
Speaker 3: to mention that one of the reasons that it also
Speaker 3: failed it was the regime's extensive propression. They militarized the
Speaker 3: entire cities, specifically in Kurdistan and Baluchistan. For example, in Kurdistan,
Speaker 3: they already have over two thousand military bases and checkpoints
Speaker 3: all over the Kurdistan region. And during that time they
Speaker 3: they had like tanks and military vehicles in the entrances,
Speaker 3: like in the gates of every city and also town
Speaker 3: they were checking out people like I personally get during
Speaker 3: these two years, I really didn't go out much, maybe
Speaker 3: once a week or once in attendees just to I
Speaker 3: don't know, to go and eat something out, you know,
Speaker 3: like I was always home. Yeah, yeah, because I couldn't
Speaker 3: go out and because my work was important. And then
Speaker 3: they were just controlling people. They were arresting people, and
Speaker 3: even like from the stories that I have worked on before,
Speaker 3: these injured people. They also they were hiding in small
Speaker 3: villages and even in the mountains, but the regime forces
Speaker 3: were everywhere looking for these people and these activists. So
Speaker 3: it was like a holy military lockdown in the region.
Speaker 3: And there are many crazy stories. I don't know if
Speaker 3: you have time enough time to talk about, like some
Speaker 3: different and specific things that happened, and it was really
Speaker 3: scary at that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like you to share that with this
Speaker 2: because I think one thing people don't understand is that
Speaker 2: the Iranian regime has a colossal capacity.
Speaker 1: For violence against the certain citizens.
Speaker 2: I think if we talk about some specific instances and
Speaker 2: then maybe we can talk about recently, there has been
Speaker 2: a bombing campaign against some nuclear facilities and some IIGC commanders,
Speaker 2: and like I think if you start with your anecdotes
Speaker 2: about what happened during this last uprising, that will help
Speaker 2: people understand why, like the consequence of this bombing campaign
Speaker 2: are not good for people who want to have freedom
Speaker 2: in Iran, right, both people inside the country at least.
Speaker 2: So yeah, us tell us some things about that capacity
Speaker 2: for repression.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, like the bombing happened, and we saw, we
Speaker 3: all saw how crazy and how insane, like it was
Speaker 3: like movies. I couldn't believe my eyes when it happened.
Speaker 3: It was really crazy. And yeah, that was like the
Speaker 3: war between two brutal states, Israel and Iran, who both
Speaker 3: have no respect for dignity of humans. Nothing, absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 3: the first thing that happened it was that, Yeah, they
Speaker 3: targeted I think so as far as I remember from
Speaker 3: our statistics, over three hundred and fifty or around that
Speaker 3: were the IRGC commanders or the officials from the nuclear programs,
Speaker 3: and like really the judges who have sentenced thousands of
Speaker 3: people to death, Like the targeted people were mainly these
Speaker 3: type of people, and also there were also some civilians.
Speaker 3: I think maybe around eighty or nineties civilians whom some
Speaker 3: of them were actually like family members of these IERGC members,
Speaker 3: and also some children. And also there was a lot
Speaker 3: of destruction, specifically in Tehran, many buildings including the Evan.
Speaker 1: Prison, yeah, it's where they hit the prison, the.
Speaker 3: Center of the Iranian broadcast and all these places were
Speaker 3: targeted and many officials were killed, also civilians. But the
Speaker 3: Iranian regime's response to that was not fully against Israel,
Speaker 3: who was bombing Iranian I er GC bases. In the
Speaker 3: first days, they started attacking civilians. They started arresting every
Speaker 3: I don't know, some random people, and so far I
Speaker 3: think last time we checked hundreds of people across specifically
Speaker 3: in Kurdistan they were arrested, and some others were already
Speaker 3: like in these days, they got executed because they were
Speaker 3: accused of spinach for Israel or working for Israel. Just
Speaker 3: a few weeks ago, I think five or four or
Speaker 3: maybe three, I don't recall the numbers right now, but
Speaker 3: some Kurdish political prisoners who were accused of working for
Speaker 3: Israel were executed in my hometown Formia in Iskordistan, and
Speaker 3: then so many others were also arrested and then I
Speaker 3: think some others were also tortured. At least I remember
Speaker 3: one case which we worked on it. There was one
Speaker 3: case that was tortured to death because he was accused
Speaker 3: of working for Israel and things like that. This was
Speaker 3: like one of the responses that the Iranian regime started doing.
Speaker 3: And one of the things that this regime did in
Speaker 3: the first days, it was that they took lots of
Speaker 3: military vehicles and like I don't know, equipments inside schools.
Speaker 3: For example, in the city of Saradash, it's a really
Speaker 3: amazing beautiful Kurdish city on top of some mountains. It's beautiful.
Speaker 3: There's a high school in the city center, exactly in
Speaker 3: the city center, and they took lots of military equipment
Speaker 3: and stuff inside the school and they threatened the school manager,
Speaker 3: if you don't give us the key right now, we
Speaker 3: will arrest you. We will do this and that. And
Speaker 3: they also did that in the city of Kermanshah. They
Speaker 3: also did that in the I remember because I worked
Speaker 3: under report. It was in the neighbor in the neighborhoodhood
Speaker 3: called the Zilabad and they took some military coupments next
Speaker 3: to a hospital which was also bombed and the hospital
Speaker 3: was damaged and some people were injured. That was one
Speaker 3: of the things that the regime did. And at the
Speaker 3: same time, I don't know if you know about this,
Speaker 3: but in Iran the military service is compulsory, like Israel,
Speaker 3: like many like Switzerland, like many countries. But in Iran
Speaker 3: it's it's forture. It's some sort of repression against young men.
Speaker 3: So across Kurtistan, for example, in a military base in
Speaker 3: my hometown in Urma, it's called Almahdi. It's a very
Speaker 3: big military base. I know that some soldiers who are
Speaker 3: like civilians, but they are forced into it. They're like teenagers,
Speaker 3: I don't know, nineteen twenty or twenty one, like you were.
Speaker 3: Young guys, yeah, very young that really don't want to
Speaker 3: be there, but they are forced to. They they were
Speaker 3: saying that their commanders threatened, if you leave the military base,
Speaker 3: we will arrest you, we will torture you, and we
Speaker 3: will execute you for betraying for like I don't know,
Speaker 3: for training your country or things like that, or working
Speaker 3: for Israel. This was like one of one of the
Speaker 3: concerns that many families had before on those days, because
Speaker 3: I talked with some people like our neighbor's son was
Speaker 3: also in a military base. He is like nineteen. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they were putting lots of pressure on civilians while ignoring
Speaker 3: that what Israel is doing every day. They were bombing
Speaker 3: all the military bases, I don't know places, and like
Speaker 3: they were even bombing places that nobody even knew that
Speaker 3: they existed. But their focus was, like the regime's focus
Speaker 3: was on civilians who were just scared, who were just
Speaker 3: trying to protect their families. Yeah, and this is like
Speaker 3: what they started doing. And yeah, I mean it's still
Speaker 3: going It still is going on, and they are arresting
Speaker 3: people all the time, and as usual, the majority of
Speaker 3: the focus and repression is again happening in Kurtison against
Speaker 3: Kurdish people. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it's very important people understand like that the
Speaker 2: Iran it's not like an ethno state, well it is
Speaker 2: an ethno state, but that there is not ethnically monolithic,
Speaker 2: like the territory of Iran and the Persian ethno state
Speaker 2: do not necessarily like line up. I think people will
Speaker 2: also be very confused about like when we hear quote
Speaker 2: unquote Iranian opposition in this country, right, it's often like
Speaker 2: I think there's this knee jack. Oh, that's good, right,
Speaker 2: These are people who opposed to this regime which is
Speaker 2: brutally cracking down on people. But often then, as you say,
Speaker 2: it's associated with like monarchists for the most part. And
Speaker 2: then we have these various like anything in Kurdistan, right,
Speaker 2: like it's an alphabet suit but like there is like
Speaker 2: there were seventy five different like initial groups of initials.
Speaker 2: Can you explain who some of these actors are, right,
Speaker 2: we have the Iranian monarchies, we have the KDPI, we
Speaker 2: have all these different groups pagiach like you say, the
Speaker 2: kdk group. Can you explain who some of these people are?
Speaker 2: For people say understand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I want to talk about Kurtistan, I would
Speaker 3: go to the first Mother and Kurdish party called KDPI,
Speaker 3: which was founded in nineteen forty five and it was
Speaker 3: the founder of the Kurdistan Republic. And also then there's
Speaker 3: the Koma Law Party, which is also like a socialist
Speaker 3: communist leftist party, which also has several branches but they're
Speaker 3: all basically the same. And also there are other parties
Speaker 3: like PAK yeah, yeah, the Freedom Party of Kurdistan, and
Speaker 3: also we have Pajak, the Free Life Kurdistan Party or
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's that, it's the same in English.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kaddistan Free Life Party.
Speaker 3: Yeah. These are the main political parties and actors in
Speaker 3: East Kurtistan. However, there are also like smaller parties like
Speaker 3: Habbat and also some parties that are affiliated like they
Speaker 3: are like very small groups that are affiliated with for example,
Speaker 3: the Iranian Communist Party, which is not also really big.
Speaker 3: But the main ones right now are KDPI and Tomola,
Speaker 3: who both of them have like a long history of
Speaker 3: fighting against the regime and also against the monarchists the
Speaker 3: Pahlavi regime. They were i would say, really really active
Speaker 3: until like twenty twenty three. They played a very very
Speaker 3: important role in the revolution and like in Kurdistan specifically
Speaker 3: because they were they were the ones who were announcing
Speaker 3: like strikes, and they were working together other and like
Speaker 3: organizing things and helping people out to resist. Obviously, there
Speaker 3: was no arm struggle at that time or conflict because
Speaker 3: they said we're not going to fight because if we
Speaker 3: bring the fights and conflict inside Kurdistan, the regime will
Speaker 3: destroy the cities with styles. This is exactly what they
Speaker 3: said at that time. Because there was a demand from
Speaker 3: people that yeah, the Peshmarga forces should come in the
Speaker 3: cities and fight alongside with us, but they said no,
Speaker 3: if you do this, the regime will destroy the cities.
Speaker 3: These are the main forces in Kurdistan, and of course
Speaker 3: they have different ideologies. Pajak is like the PKK's wing,
Speaker 3: or if I want to be more official, it's a
Speaker 3: member of the KCK or Kjaks, we'll say. And the
Speaker 3: ADPI is like as I said, the history goes back
Speaker 3: to nineteen forty five and in the early seventies. And
Speaker 3: also pak I'm not sure when it was founded, but
Speaker 3: it was also like it was founded one by one
Speaker 3: of the members of the KDPI Huseinia's Dampana. And there
Speaker 3: are more of a military I would say, well organized
Speaker 3: military group that they also played a good role against
Speaker 3: the the Icis in twenty seventeen and eighteen, specifically in
Speaker 3: keer Kuk in South Kurdistan or Iraqi Kurdistan. And about
Speaker 3: the Iran in a position if I want to say, yes,
Speaker 3: we have the monarchists, the rizapah Levi and his group.
Speaker 3: They have like a whole long list of parties. Basically
Speaker 3: they are all the same, but they have different names,
Speaker 3: and they are all right wing, and they all focused
Speaker 3: on the territorial integrity of Iran, but they also pretend
Speaker 3: that they care also about democracy, but that's that's a lie.
Speaker 3: And then we have people like Massi Alinejad, who is
Speaker 3: more of She is an activist and she's she's internationally
Speaker 3: known for her activism against the compulsory hy job. But
Speaker 3: she doesn't have any specific party or organization. She is
Speaker 3: just an activist and a journalist obviously. And also there
Speaker 3: are other several people that work with her, like Nazani
Speaker 3: Bunyati who also works with like Pa Lavis. And also
Speaker 3: there is another one who also played a big role.
Speaker 3: His name is Hamid Ismailiun. He is one of the
Speaker 3: members of the families of the people who were killed
Speaker 3: in that plane that was shot by missiles biology see
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty in Tehran. And again there were many
Speaker 3: Kurds inside that Ukrainian plane as well. This person Smailuni,
Speaker 3: he's one of the members of like. He lost his
Speaker 3: entire family in that plane crash or attack. He organized
Speaker 3: many many great and big demonstrations across Canada, Australia, I
Speaker 3: think even in the US and specifically in Germany. The
Speaker 3: one in Berlin was the biggest. Also, he doesn't have
Speaker 3: a party, but he also somehow backed down after what
Speaker 3: Alavis did, for example, like or the monarchists did with
Speaker 3: the whole opposition groups. There are also some leftist groups
Speaker 3: and individuals, but unfortunately they're not truly leftists. So I
Speaker 3: want to give you a name. There is a person
Speaker 3: called adah As Easy. He is also well known in
Speaker 3: the US. I don't know. He wrote some books and
Speaker 3: he works with really like international media. Just a few
Speaker 3: days ago he posted something that said, we the leftists
Speaker 3: of Iran, we are in love with our homeland and
Speaker 3: we care about our homeland and we don't it just
Speaker 3: posted something that was that was really nationalistic, like a
Speaker 3: typical Persian Iranian sentiment. That was that that that's been
Speaker 3: going on and it's got lots of criticism from different groups.
Speaker 3: And then we have the the Awazi Arabs. They also
Speaker 3: have some parties, but they're not really strong or active
Speaker 3: or well organized, like the Kurdish ones, the Turks, the
Speaker 3: Ozer by Johnny Turks. They also have some groups, but
Speaker 3: they're also not very active or organized. And many of
Speaker 3: these groups they are heavily affiliated with the azer Bai
Speaker 3: Johnny government or the Turkish regime and specifically the MHP
Speaker 3: party in Turkey, like the ulternational Turkish party yeah right, yeah,
Speaker 3: and then the Baluchiese I can say they are more
Speaker 3: organized because they have this I don't want to call
Speaker 3: him a leader, but like the the highest the highest
Speaker 3: level h moullah in Baluchistan, Molavi Abdulhamid. He is like
Speaker 3: the most popular mulah in that region, and he was
Speaker 3: one of the people that was organizing protests and he
Speaker 3: was giving lots of speeches like during the Friday prayers
Speaker 3: in Baluchistan, and a lot of people were. They still
Speaker 3: like they follow him and they follow his words. But
Speaker 3: unfortunately he is also like appointed as the Imam of
Speaker 3: the Friday prayers, if I want to be more specific,
Speaker 3: in Baluchistan by Kameny himself, the Iranian Supreme Realer. But
Speaker 3: it's like a little bit hard to understand that where
Speaker 3: he stands exactly because on one side he he's appointed
Speaker 3: by the regime, but on the other side he's also
Speaker 3: like acting as a political leader or advocate. In Baluchastan,
Speaker 3: I think they also have some armed groups, but there
Speaker 3: are mainly Islamists, and I would say, but they're also
Speaker 3: not very very well organized. Yet they do attack the
Speaker 3: IRGC members and these agents who are pressing people on
Speaker 3: a daily basis sometimes and sometimes they get killed. And
Speaker 3: also sometimes just a few days ago, there was a
Speaker 3: fight between these people and like civilians in the village
Speaker 3: and also the IRGC courses and I think two women
Speaker 3: were killed and more than ten or eleven were injured. Jeez,
Speaker 3: but this this fights and conflicts and they're always happening
Speaker 3: in Baluchistan. Yeah, it can be hard, I.
Speaker 2: Think, especially people aren't familiar, right, like the Pak to
Speaker 2: distinguish from Pjak, like have definitely been making a big
Speaker 2: effort on the internet, I will say, like with their
Speaker 2: Peshmerga right in the last three weeks since the US
Speaker 2: entered the Israel's bombing campaign, like to a pea like
Speaker 2: like this, and they are very well organized pash Mega
Speaker 2: like I think they say they're inca cook. I think
Speaker 2: maybe they're in Kubani as well, like maybe they yeah,
Speaker 2: they joined in yeah, ye, the.
Speaker 3: Pajak who was specifically in Rajava and they were also
Speaker 3: fighting against Isis because like they are like as I said,
Speaker 3: they are, they're a member of KCK, and there are
Speaker 3: allies of PKK, so they're all are interconnected and they
Speaker 3: all work together.
Speaker 1: I think the PAK also, we're in Rushava.
Speaker 3: Right, I am not sure, but I think members of
Speaker 3: PAK joined like the fight in Rojava, like as individuals,
Speaker 3: because the fighting was also something that people from all
Speaker 3: over Kurdistan went there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from northern Kerdistan to yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And these are very organized groups, but like there
Speaker 2: isn't I guess there is a kind of insurgency. But
Speaker 2: as you say, like if these groups just took up
Speaker 2: bombs in the cities and the IIGC would destroy everyone
Speaker 2: in those cities, right, that's a I think people sometimes
Speaker 2: wonder like why they don't just start fighting and then
Speaker 2: there is fighting, to be clear, But like as you say,
Speaker 2: the regime punishes civilians, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is not the first time that
Speaker 3: the regime does this. Every time that Israel does something
Speaker 3: to the regime, because this is not the first time
Speaker 3: that Israel has killed someone in Iran, like some IRGC
Speaker 3: member or nuclear agent, nuclear scientists or whatever. Every time
Speaker 3: that's happened during the past few years. Instead of responding
Speaker 3: to Israel as a state. They responded to the Kurdish people.
Speaker 3: I think it was just two years Again, in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two, they literally bombed a civilian house in urban
Speaker 3: the capital of Iraqi, Curtistan, and they killed an entire family,
Speaker 3: like a it was like maybe a six seven month
Speaker 3: old baby and her father. They always respond to Kurtz
Speaker 3: when they get attacked or bombed or damaged or whatever
Speaker 3: by Israel or America.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a soft target attarget they feel they
Speaker 2: can like safely attack, you know, versus Like we know
Speaker 2: now that they Iran pre warned the United States it
Speaker 2: was going to attack its basis, you know, following this
Speaker 2: bombing raid, and it was more of a performative thing
Speaker 2: than a serious attempt to attack US basis. And even
Speaker 2: like this week I saw in Slea money like they
Speaker 2: ran Is sending shahedrones.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually during the past maybe ten days, this is
Speaker 3: like last night there was an attacking Slemaney. But this
Speaker 3: is like I think the fourth or third time that
Speaker 3: there have There have been like several drone attacks on
Speaker 3: different places. So yeah, this is something that the Regeem
Speaker 3: has been doing. One of the other funny things. I mean,
Speaker 3: this is not funny exactly, but it's weird. I just
Speaker 3: yesterday and actually two days ago. I'm not really good
Speaker 3: with dates and numbers, that's okay. Just two days ago,
Speaker 3: they conducted like a cyber attack on this TV channel,
Speaker 3: Iran International, which is also advocating for monarchists, and they
Speaker 3: expose like some nude photos and like private photos and
Speaker 3: videos of some of the staff that work there, and
Speaker 3: they are threatening that we will publish more if you
Speaker 3: don't stop or whatever. This is also like another strategies
Speaker 3: that the regime uses when they lose something, when they
Speaker 3: get attacked, they also like target at this journalists or
Speaker 3: for example, they threatened their families or they threatened them
Speaker 3: here inside Europe or in America or Canada or wherever
Speaker 3: they are. Yeah, this is like as we call it,
Speaker 3: it's the transnational repression of the regime and it's been
Speaker 3: going on forever and again if you look at the numbers,
Speaker 3: most of the attacks have been on Kurdish activists. For example,
Speaker 3: during the past thirty years, over I think around six
Speaker 3: hundred non political activists have been killed by the regime
Speaker 3: outside of Iran, and nearly four hundred and fifty or
Speaker 3: something of them were Kurdish. Yeah, this is also another
Speaker 3: thing that the regime has been doing, and in these
Speaker 3: days they have intensified. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They have a long history of trans national repression
Speaker 2: and like participating in the repression of other revolutions, right,
Speaker 2: Like of course they were massive backers of the side
Speaker 2: regime interior. You know, all around the region. They will
Speaker 2: find the wrong side to line up on it and
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: Of course, people will also be familiar they we supporting
Speaker 2: Kazmala for instance in Lebanon. One thing I've heard is
Speaker 2: that like the regime has been really cracking down on
Speaker 2: Afghan people, like mass devotations of Afghan people who have
Speaker 2: come to Iran, right and especially in the wake of
Speaker 2: this bombing campaign.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about that briefly.
Speaker 3: Yes, of course. I think that's one of the most
Speaker 3: horrible things that happened after the war so far. We
Speaker 3: know that just in June they deported over thirty thousand
Speaker 3: Afghans and it's still going on, like they mass support
Speaker 3: tens of thousands of Afghan refugees every day, and just
Speaker 3: something that was really horrible to me when I read it.
Speaker 3: There were six thousand kids that were unregistered and they
Speaker 3: were separated from their parents and they were sent back
Speaker 3: to Afghanistan alone Jesus. Yeah, and they are haunting down
Speaker 3: Afghan my grants in different cities across around, especially in
Speaker 3: Tehran because most of them are there. And the thing
Speaker 3: is that the Afghan I think there are over three
Speaker 3: million Afghan migrants in Iran or maybe more. Yeah, nobody
Speaker 3: knows the exact numbers because the Iranian government never ever
Speaker 3: publishes the true statistics, but there are millions of them
Speaker 3: in Iran and they are not actually allowed to They
Speaker 3: were not allowed actually like they're getting kicked out right now,
Speaker 3: but they were not allowed to work in Kurdish cities.
Speaker 3: They were only allowed to work in Persian speaking cities
Speaker 3: like Tehran, Mashatras, Isfahan and these big industrial cities. So
Speaker 3: like right now, if you look at the internet, they
Speaker 3: are being hunted down by Iranian agents everywhere and they're
Speaker 3: being forced to go back to Afghanistan. And one of
Speaker 3: the things that I want to mention that's been going
Speaker 3: on from a humanitarian perspective, that really really makes me sad,
Speaker 3: and also it reflects a very ugly reality about the
Speaker 3: Persian or the Iranian society and the amount of racism
Speaker 3: and fascism that exists among them, not just by the regime,
Speaker 3: by the people as well. There have been hundreds of
Speaker 3: videos and footage online. You can also check just certain
Speaker 3: you will see that random citizens, young people, they are
Speaker 3: attacking Afghan people in the city and I don't know,
Speaker 3: in subways, in the parks, in cheese, in public places.
Speaker 3: Just yesterday I saw a very heartbreaking video because like
Speaker 3: Afgone people, they also have a different look. You can
Speaker 3: easily say that they're not Iranians. An Afghan teenager was
Speaker 3: being attacked by eggs Jesus and they were just throwing
Speaker 3: eggs at him and then they poured like lots of
Speaker 3: some powder and then like some juice and like Coca cola.
Speaker 3: I don't know what was that. They were just throwing
Speaker 3: everything at him. And on the other another videw that
Speaker 3: I saw, they stopped a man maybe he was thirty
Speaker 3: or something. They forced him to kiss the hand of
Speaker 3: a stray dog. I mean, yeah, that would be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: he's kissing a dog. But in the Middle East culture,
Speaker 3: when you force someone to kiss a dog.
Speaker 1: It's very disrespectful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really disrespectful, and like they're also I read
Speaker 3: on the internet that many Afghans reported that, like for example,
Speaker 3: in Tehran, they were renting a house or an apartment
Speaker 3: or something, and they were living in those apartments and
Speaker 3: the landlord reported them to the police. It's like what's
Speaker 3: happening in the US. It's something like ice, but it's
Speaker 3: Iranian but more brutal. Then the police just came and
Speaker 3: took them all. And now the landlords are refusing to
Speaker 3: give back the passion money to Afghuns, and many of
Speaker 3: them are being forced out with any food, without any
Speaker 3: support anything, and especially the women, like I also read
Speaker 3: about like a doctor that fled Polybon and he was
Speaker 3: in Tehran and now if he goes back, the Tolliban
Speaker 3: will definitely kill him because he was like against Tolliban. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's it's a very horrible humanitarian situation.
Speaker 3: And the people, like in Baluchistan, they're also suffering. But
Speaker 3: I saw many videos and also some of the activists
Speaker 3: published lots of footage that they were they were bringing food, water,
Speaker 3: I don't know, medicine and things like that on the
Speaker 3: on the road to give it to those people who
Speaker 3: are going back, and they were offering I don't know
Speaker 3: whatever they had. And in Afghanistan there is also happening.
Speaker 3: But it's just so crazy because both the regime and
Speaker 3: also the anti regime media are trying to portray Afghans
Speaker 3: as the problem, just exactly like how the far right
Speaker 3: parties in like if they are portraying refugees and migrants
Speaker 3: are as the main problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a global thing. It happens here in the
Speaker 1: US UK.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's exactly the same. Yeah, and like unfortunately
Speaker 3: the even the Iranian opposition has not been clear. But
Speaker 3: again because there is some sort of solidarity that encourage
Speaker 3: pollutes and Afghans and also other minorities. It's the minorities
Speaker 3: that talk about this. It's the minority groups and organizations
Speaker 3: who try to raise awareness over this. Unfortunately, I think
Speaker 3: nobody can stop it because they're doing it anyways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like we shouldn't support an opposition politics and
Speaker 2: it's just another ethno. No, Like we see that in
Speaker 2: Syria right now, right, Like, yeah, they haven't even changed
Speaker 2: the name. We have this revolution, tens of thousands, maybe
Speaker 2: one hundreds of thousands of people definitely died to build
Speaker 2: something better. We still have the Syrian Arab Republic. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's maybe the Ala Whites are being persecuted now and
Speaker 2: they weren't before, But like that shouldn't matter, right, Like
Speaker 2: if we if we're build trying to build something better.
Speaker 3: I mean, there are just remnants of isis. So what
Speaker 3: can you expect?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, it's uh yeah, it's very sad to see,
Speaker 2: you know, after after so much killing and dying, I
Speaker 2: guess to finish up. I think people in the US
Speaker 2: do not get very good coverage of what's happening in
Speaker 2: a run, right, Like it said that, as you say,
Speaker 2: dominated by monarchist outlets, we tend to have good resources
Speaker 2: which allow them to kind of get to the top
Speaker 2: of people's feeds or they're getting like press, TV stuff,
Speaker 2: right that just like rage straight up regime propaganda. Now,
Speaker 2: where can people find like good resources to understand what's
Speaker 2: what's happening in a round? Like from the perspective of
Speaker 2: you know, the majority of people who just want to
Speaker 2: live a free life, and especially like you know, the
Speaker 2: women in particularly in a round, right, an extremely difficult
Speaker 2: and repressive every the regime dominates every aspect of their life. Like,
Speaker 2: where can people find reasonable coverage that achnowledge is there.
Speaker 3: Honestly, if I want to talk about media like TV
Speaker 3: channels or just media websites, there is no media like
Speaker 3: Iranian media that truly reflects what's happening in Iran. There
Speaker 3: are like many leftists and also right wing medias from
Speaker 3: for example, if I want to go like a very
Speaker 3: leftist media called Radio Zamani, they are not really good.
Speaker 3: Like then we have Iran International, BBC, Persian Voice of America,
Speaker 3: Persian Independent, Persian like there are many many media that
Speaker 3: all of these, like I would say the big media,
Speaker 3: they are heavily dominated and I would say exploited by
Speaker 3: the ultranationalist people. And also there are people who are
Speaker 3: related to IRGC and this organization called Naya that is
Speaker 3: like the regime's lobby group in the US, and these
Speaker 3: individuals that work there, they truly don't reflect what's happening there.
Speaker 3: And I mean, it's it's kind of hard because if
Speaker 3: people want to understand what's happening, maybe they should read
Speaker 3: everything they're posting and then analyze that, hey, this makes
Speaker 3: sense and this doesn't. But that just a little bit hard.
Speaker 3: But also on the other side, I would suggest that
Speaker 3: people should follow more human rights organizations, which again some
Speaker 3: of them, if I want, I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: okay to say their names, some of them and the
Speaker 3: people for example, the Burumant Organization, they did lots of
Speaker 3: great work, but recently again they showed some sort of
Speaker 3: racism and like censorship against minorities, especially Kurt and people
Speaker 3: like Lot and bozs are gone. They are like also
Speaker 3: doing some human rights work in the US, and even
Speaker 3: people like Massi and all the I would say known activists,
Speaker 3: and even here in Germany, they are not truly reflecting
Speaker 3: what's happening. They're just focused on the Persian perspective and
Speaker 3: they're like they talk about minorities time to time, but
Speaker 3: only when it fits into their agendas, into their ideologies
Speaker 3: and perspectives. But there are other organizations which I'm working with,
Speaker 3: like Hangout Organizations for human rights. Until two thousand, late
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, I guess we were mainly focused on
Speaker 3: East Kurdistan, but right now we report human rights violations
Speaker 3: from all over Iran, like yeah, but we try our best,
Speaker 3: and I think I could say that we are one
Speaker 3: of the best when it comes to all these things,
Speaker 3: and we don't care about what people think. We just
Speaker 3: report what's happening or what happened. And there are other
Speaker 3: organizations like Iran Human Rights they're also good. For example,
Speaker 3: there is another one called Tawana. They are like a
Speaker 3: very big organization, but unfortunately they advocated for the monarchists
Speaker 3: again just a few months ago, so it's kind of
Speaker 3: hard to see that who is truly on the side
Speaker 3: of people. And when you look at the human rights organizations.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying this because I'm Kurdish, but this is
Speaker 3: what I see and I think it's true. The only
Speaker 3: organizations that truly reflect what's happening without caring about people's
Speaker 3: backgrounds or ethnicity or whatever. It's our organization hang out
Speaker 3: and also like organizations like Curtis on Human Rights Network,
Speaker 3: but unfortunately the majority of the others are are really clear.
Speaker 3: So for Kurdish issue that I would say definitely hang
Speaker 3: out and also on my page Kurtistani people I also
Speaker 3: like write a lot of things, and also Kurdish Piece
Speaker 3: Institute and Kurtish Center for Studies. They have lots of
Speaker 3: other Kurdish journalists and experts that write a lot of
Speaker 3: really good articles about the situation there. And if I
Speaker 3: want to mention names, I would say Roji Mokiani. She
Speaker 3: is like a really great researcher. She lives in Ireland.
Speaker 3: There is another professor called Camraan Martin. He also writes
Speaker 3: really great analysis on situation and like the things that
Speaker 3: people even don't think about. They're writing with so many
Speaker 3: different international organizations and institutes. Yeah, there are like these
Speaker 3: individuals and activists.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. That was really
Speaker 2: that really helped, I think for people to understand things.
Speaker 2: Tell us about your your Kurdistan People page. Where can
Speaker 2: they find that on on Instagram?
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for inviting me and thank you for
Speaker 3: letting me speak. Yeah, I have this page Kurdistani People.
Speaker 3: I usually post about all over Kurdistan the things that matter.
Speaker 3: Obviously I can't do it all the time, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I post a lot of things. And there are other
Speaker 3: pages that are also collaborate with, like Kurtish Activism or
Speaker 3: everything about Kurtistan. We're just a group of people who
Speaker 3: work together. Obviously, like our organization, I think it's it's
Speaker 3: very very important for people to follow and support it.
Speaker 3: Hang Out Organization for Human Rights and also Kurtistan Human
Speaker 3: Rights Network that's also like another one that you can follow. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and also like gay I talked about some names and
Speaker 3: individuals and researchers. You can also follow them for more
Speaker 3: professional analysis about East Kurtistan or Rochalot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Great, well, thank you Sam for joining us. We
Speaker 2: really appreciate your time. Thank you, Thank you very much.
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