1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: All media. Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 2: It's me James today and I'm joined by gorjin Jedmai 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 2: from HENGL, the human rights organization. Also a journalist who's 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: worked for the Kurdish Peace Institute who we've had on 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: the show before, who I've also worked with, and the 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: founder of the Kurtis Dan People's page on Instagram. Welcome 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: to the show, Thanks for joining us. 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 3: Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm so glad 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 3: to be here today with you. 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, and what we're going to talk about 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 2: today is Rodia Lat or Eastern Kurdistan and how this 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: figures into I guess what's happening currently in Iran. 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: What has been happening in Iran, And like. 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: I think it's really important to give a little more 15 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: explanation and background on particularly the different ethnic groups in 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: Iran than people generally get when they can consume legacy 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: media here. 18 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so if I want to talk about this, like, 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 3: we need to talk about the history of at least 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty one hundred fifty years, so it's 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 3: really a lot. But today's structure of what we know 22 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 3: as Iran is made up of several different ethnic groups 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 3: from Persians, Turks, I mean Ozerbaijani Turks, Turkmands, Heerds, Baluchi's, Ahwazi, 24 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: Arabs and so many others. But I would say the 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: dominant population, the dominant ethnic group, and the dominant aulture 26 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 3: and language is definitely Persians. Yeah. And if I want 27 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: to be more clear, this dominant ethnic group has been 28 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: exploding and colonizing and destroying all the lands and the 29 00:01:54,520 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: communities and societies from non Persian regions including Kurdistan, Baluchistan, Azerbaijan, 30 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: Ahawas and many other regions in this biographical region paul Iran. 31 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 3: And this mainly started during the former monarchy Pahlavis, and 32 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: it was intensified after the nineteen seventy nine Islamic Revolution 33 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: led by Ayatu la Romeni, and as usual, the Kurdish 34 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: people were the first to stand against this newly established regime. 35 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy nine, a few months after the so 36 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 3: called revolution, the Kurds were demanding their rights, specifically the 37 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 3: right to self determination and also federalism, which was responded 38 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 3: by a heavy hit by heavy attacks and under the 39 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: jihad order of Ayatu la Romeni, which led to the 40 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 3: massacre of tens of thousands of civilians and destructions of 41 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 3: several hundred villages and mass executions of Kurdish people across 42 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 3: the what we know as Eastern Kurdistan or Roshalat. And 43 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: following that the oppression continued, and also it was done 44 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 3: against other ethnic groups, specifically Baluchi's and also the Awazi 45 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: Arabs and also the Azerbaijani Turks, but in Kurdistan and 46 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 3: Baluchistan it has always been more intense and more brutal. 47 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: And then in late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties 48 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: they killed two of the Kurdish leaders, doctor Abdur Rahman 49 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 3: Kasumlu and doctor shut Off Candy in Europe during some 50 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 3: negotiations and thus ended up in kurt being in a 51 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: worse situation. And then until around early two thousands, I 52 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: think around two thousand and four or three, the PKK 53 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 3: built or established its wing in Rochalat known as the 54 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 3: Free Kurdistan Party or Pajak sorry Free Kurdistan Life Party 55 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: in Rochalot. And then but unfortunately this party was not 56 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 3: really as strong as the KDPI or Komala that were 57 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 3: already in the fight with the with the Iranian states. 58 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 3: Since nineteen forty six and so on. This oppression has 59 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: been just intensifying by mass execution of Kurdish people, the 60 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 3: mass execution of the political prisoners and activists, and imprisonment 61 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 3: of the different people in the Kurdish society from language 62 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: teachers to environmental activists to children, women, anyone, and this 63 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 3: whole impression that I've been mentioning about, like that that's 64 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 3: happening in East Kurdistan. It has also resulted in a 65 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 3: humanitarian phenomenon called kulba. Pullbars are a group of people 66 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 3: that are extremely underprivileged. They have no access to anything, 67 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 3: so they are somehow forced to go into some sort 68 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: of work that they have to carry goods between the 69 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: borders of East Kurdistan and South Kurdistan or North Kurdistan 70 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 3: specifically between Iraq, Iran and Turkey. And every year we 71 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 3: have numbers in our organizations you can check. We have 72 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: a specific statistics section for these col wars. Every year 73 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: hundreds of them get killed. Just for example, in since 74 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: the beginning of twenty twenty five, twenty two of them 75 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 3: have been killed and injured. And among these people there 76 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: are children, women, old people. So this is also another 77 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: form of oppression that this regime has been using. Again 78 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 3: start people, because this is actually one of the biggest 79 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 3: forms of oppression, if I want to talk about it. 80 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 3: There are over one hundred and fifty thousand coal bars 81 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: in East Kurdistan that are somehow into this type of 82 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 3: work because they have no other means of income, and 83 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 3: the government, the Ringing government actually like limitits all the 84 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: if I want to call it economic developments in East Kurdistan. 85 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 3: This has been going on for decades. And then we 86 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 3: come to twenty nineteen again there was another so I 87 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: want to call it uprising or master tests across Iran 88 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 3: when the regime killed over one five hundred people. I 89 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 3: mean before that, there were also tests almost every year, 90 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: but that was like one of the biggest one. It 91 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 3: was in November twenty nineteen, and they cut down the 92 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 3: internet for twelve days. I remember I was at the 93 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 3: university at that time. And then they killed one thy 94 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 3: five hundred people, specifically so many people in Kurdistan. They 95 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: even throw that kills people into like lakes and rivers, 96 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 3: and then after like months and days people found the 97 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 3: bodies like in the nature jeeze. And then we come 98 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: to twenty twenty two in September when they the morality 99 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: police killed Gina Amini, the Kurdish woman who was apparently 100 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: not wearing a proper hijab or the Islamic cloth or 101 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it. She was killed by 102 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: the Iranian morality police in Tehran, which led to the 103 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: as we know it. I don't know if you can 104 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 3: call it a revolution or uprising or just mass tests 105 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 3: called Jhinjiana Zadi or women life Freedom movement. And this 106 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 3: also again because it was inspired by Kurtz the first 107 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: victim was occurred again. Obviously it started in Kurdistan and 108 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: it spread so fast. Just in a few days, the 109 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 3: entire Kurdish cities were testing, and then it was followed 110 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: by other Iranian cities like Tehran. She was but it 111 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: was not as intense as in Kurdistan. I think it was. 112 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: Three days after her death, the Kurdish parties Katipi and 113 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: Komala and some others that are not very well known 114 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 3: like pak and also Pajak or the Free Life Kurdistan Party, 115 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 3: they announced a general strike across Kurdistan and they called 116 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: on people to close down everything and go on a 117 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: full lockdown to protest the killing of Gina Amini, which 118 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: was responded by I think over one hundred missiles or 119 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: something from the IRGC and the Iranian regime and it 120 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 3: killed I think eighteen if I'm not wrong, but it 121 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 3: killed several people in the camps belonging to these parties 122 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 3: in today's Iraqi Kurdistan where as we call it South Kurdistan. 123 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 3: There were also like family members of the Kurdish politicians 124 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 3: and Kurdish Pishmarga that were in those refugee camps that 125 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 3: are also supported by the UN. They were killed there 126 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: and then the protests just got intensified. And I was 127 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 3: also there. We were reporting every day about all the 128 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 3: things that were happening. Also, the Baluchi people joined the protests. 129 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 3: And at the same time of those days, a fifteen 130 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 3: years old Baluchi girl was raped and killed by an 131 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 3: IRGC commander or member in Baluchistan, and people also protested that. 132 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 3: And there was a Friday which is known as the 133 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 3: Bloody Friday of Zahidan. People in Baluchistan. They went to 134 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 3: a big mosque in the city of Zahidan and they 135 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 3: were doing their Friday prayers as Mauslims, and then they 136 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 3: started protesting. And this was responded by the Iranian regime 137 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 3: forces and over one hundred people were massacred on that day, 138 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 3: which also led to mass execution of more political and 139 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 3: just random prisoners in Baluchistan. The protests just went on 140 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: and there was a really heavy repression so far, I 141 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 3: think over maybe between five hundred to six hundred people 142 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 3: were killed. These are like the official ones, and also 143 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 3: several other of these protesters, specifically from Kurtiston were executed. 144 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 3: Some of them were executed in public to spread more 145 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: fear among people, but people were not given up. And 146 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 3: then it continued until twenty twenty three. I think it 147 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 3: was around maybe in March, I'm not really remembering the 148 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 3: exact date, but it was also in twenty twenty three 149 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 3: that they started attacking schools, like girls' schools, with some 150 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 3: sort of gases that nobody actually knows that what type 151 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 3: of chemical gases they were using, and unfortunately we have them, 152 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 3: like we've reported on. Then some school children, like some kids, 153 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 3: they were killed by these gases, and they were specifically 154 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: targeting a girls school because they are like separate, they 155 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 3: don't they're not together in the Iranian system. 156 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: Integrate. 157 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, And then this went on and people were still protesting, 158 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 3: but unfortunately it somehow stopped. And if I wanted to 159 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 3: analyze that and related to like to talk about the reasons. 160 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 3: One of the main reasons I think also many other 161 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 3: political activists and analysts also agree on that that the opposition, 162 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 3: but as we know as the Iranian opposition was not 163 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 3: truly united. Yeah, there was a huge effort specifically from 164 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 3: the Kurdish parties like Comala and Abdullah Motadi. They tried 165 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 3: to create some sort of collaboration with the so called 166 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 3: Iranian oppositions, specifically the monarchists like the Pahlavis and some 167 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: other groups. But unfortunately these groups, I mean it was 168 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 3: in the middle of an uprising, like a movement that 169 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: hasn't been happening since maybe forty years. Instead of working 170 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 3: together for a common goal like the Iranian opposition groups 171 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: specifically the Parlavis and also the other ones like if 172 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 3: I want to say, like the Massy and like all 173 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 3: the people that work with her, instead of working towards 174 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 3: a common goal, they started discriminating against minorities. They started 175 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: ignoring and denying and also censoring the minorities, the same 176 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: minorities that were the most active against the regime that 177 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 3: had the biggest number of sacrifices in the protests and 178 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 3: also in prisons. They just started spreading their own typical 179 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 3: national I mean, I would even call them ultra nationalistic sentiments. 180 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: And for example, if I want to give one of 181 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: the biggest things that we always talk about, these people 182 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 3: who are apparently against the regime, they have some red lines, 183 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 3: and their main red line has always been the so 184 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 3: called Iranian territorial integrity. So like these type of sentiments 185 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 3: and discussions, it's somehow created like a lot of mistrust 186 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 3: between the Kurdish groups, the Baluchi groups. Also like with 187 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: Hawazi Arabs and Azerbaijani Turks and all these groups, they 188 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: couldn't trust each other because the dominant group, the Persians 189 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: or the Iranians or those who identify as Iranians, they 190 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 3: ignored us, They ignored our suffering, they ignored our identity. 191 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 3: They were just repeating what the regime has been saying 192 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 3: since over forty years, but in a different form. So 193 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 3: this somehow created a lot of mistrust and also the 194 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: people inside, Like I was there when that was happening, 195 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 3: and I was working non stop every day of recording, writing, texting, 196 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: being on interviews, the people actually lost their hope because 197 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 3: there was no united position, there was no united structure 198 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: to say that, yeah, we're advocating for you. I mean, 199 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 3: in the first few months it was really great. For example, 200 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: here in Germany they had a very big demonstration and 201 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: over eighty thousand people from all across Europe. They traveled 202 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 3: to Berlin for that demonstration. It was great, and all 203 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: the groups from Iranians, turks, Arabs, Balucci is like everybody 204 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 3: was there. But unfortunately following that, the people like specifically 205 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: who's a Palavi, the so called crown Prince of Iran? 206 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 3: Who is another like his story is like very also 207 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 3: like crazy, yeah, he and his group and his circle, 208 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: and also people like Massi al Najatte And I would 209 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 3: say all the celebrities because they are not truly they 210 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 3: are politicians. They have no political study they have they 211 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 3: haven't done any specific political work. They are just celebrities. 212 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 3: Like Nazni Bulgnadi she played in some movies. Yeah she's 213 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 3: a really great actress, but not a good politician. Like 214 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 3: these things that celebrities who truly don't understand or they 215 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: don't want to understand what people inside Kurtistan, Iran and 216 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 3: Baluchis don't want They pretended to be our voices and 217 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 3: they never listened to us. And then this just made 218 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 3: a lot of distraws and a lot of also hate 219 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: between the people. Yeah, so that's why I can say 220 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 3: that it just failed after that, And unfortunately many many 221 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: of the people who were arrested during that time, they 222 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 3: are still in jail, and just a few days ago 223 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 3: five of them were sentenced to death and we made 224 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 3: a report about them. So like every day did they 225 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: get sentenced to death? And I person know many of 226 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: these people who were injured and they are now here 227 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 3: in Germany. They were brought here but by some human 228 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: turing visas. Some of them are my friends. So like 229 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: it just failed. At the same time, I also have 230 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 3: to mention that one of the reasons that it also 231 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 3: failed it was the regime's extensive propression. They militarized the 232 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 3: entire cities, specifically in Kurdistan and Baluchistan. For example, in Kurdistan, 233 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: they already have over two thousand military bases and checkpoints 234 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 3: all over the Kurdistan region. And during that time they 235 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: they had like tanks and military vehicles in the entrances, 236 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: like in the gates of every city and also town 237 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: they were checking out people like I personally get during 238 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 3: these two years, I really didn't go out much, maybe 239 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: once a week or once in attendees just to I 240 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 3: don't know, to go and eat something out, you know, 241 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 3: like I was always home. Yeah, yeah, because I couldn't 242 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 3: go out and because my work was important. And then 243 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 3: they were just controlling people. They were arresting people, and 244 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 3: even like from the stories that I have worked on before, 245 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 3: these injured people. They also they were hiding in small 246 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 3: villages and even in the mountains, but the regime forces 247 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 3: were everywhere looking for these people and these activists. So 248 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 3: it was like a holy military lockdown in the region. 249 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 3: And there are many crazy stories. I don't know if 250 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 3: you have time enough time to talk about, like some 251 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 3: different and specific things that happened, and it was really 252 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 3: scary at that time. 253 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like you to share that with this 254 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: because I think one thing people don't understand is that 255 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: the Iranian regime has a colossal capacity. 256 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: For violence against the certain citizens. 257 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: I think if we talk about some specific instances and 258 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: then maybe we can talk about recently, there has been 259 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 2: a bombing campaign against some nuclear facilities and some IIGC commanders, 260 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: and like I think if you start with your anecdotes 261 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 2: about what happened during this last uprising, that will help 262 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: people understand why, like the consequence of this bombing campaign 263 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: are not good for people who want to have freedom 264 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: in Iran, right, both people inside the country at least. 265 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: So yeah, us tell us some things about that capacity 266 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: for repression. 267 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, like the bombing happened, and we saw, we 268 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 3: all saw how crazy and how insane, like it was 269 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 3: like movies. I couldn't believe my eyes when it happened. 270 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: It was really crazy. And yeah, that was like the 271 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 3: war between two brutal states, Israel and Iran, who both 272 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 3: have no respect for dignity of humans. Nothing, absolutely, Yeah, 273 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 3: the first thing that happened it was that, Yeah, they 274 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 3: targeted I think so as far as I remember from 275 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 3: our statistics, over three hundred and fifty or around that 276 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: were the IRGC commanders or the officials from the nuclear programs, 277 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 3: and like really the judges who have sentenced thousands of 278 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 3: people to death, Like the targeted people were mainly these 279 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: type of people, and also there were also some civilians. 280 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 3: I think maybe around eighty or nineties civilians whom some 281 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: of them were actually like family members of these IERGC members, 282 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 3: and also some children. And also there was a lot 283 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 3: of destruction, specifically in Tehran, many buildings including the Evan. 284 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: Prison, yeah, it's where they hit the prison, the. 285 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 3: Center of the Iranian broadcast and all these places were 286 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 3: targeted and many officials were killed, also civilians. But the 287 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: Iranian regime's response to that was not fully against Israel, 288 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 3: who was bombing Iranian I er GC bases. In the 289 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 3: first days, they started attacking civilians. They started arresting every 290 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 3: I don't know, some random people, and so far I 291 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 3: think last time we checked hundreds of people across specifically 292 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 3: in Kurdistan they were arrested, and some others were already 293 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: like in these days, they got executed because they were 294 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: accused of spinach for Israel or working for Israel. Just 295 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 3: a few weeks ago, I think five or four or 296 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 3: maybe three, I don't recall the numbers right now, but 297 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 3: some Kurdish political prisoners who were accused of working for 298 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 3: Israel were executed in my hometown Formia in Iskordistan, and 299 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 3: then so many others were also arrested and then I 300 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 3: think some others were also tortured. At least I remember 301 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 3: one case which we worked on it. There was one 302 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: case that was tortured to death because he was accused 303 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: of working for Israel and things like that. This was 304 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: like one of the responses that the Iranian regime started doing. 305 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 3: And one of the things that this regime did in 306 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 3: the first days, it was that they took lots of 307 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 3: military vehicles and like I don't know, equipments inside schools. 308 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 3: For example, in the city of Saradash, it's a really 309 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 3: amazing beautiful Kurdish city on top of some mountains. It's beautiful. 310 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 3: There's a high school in the city center, exactly in 311 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 3: the city center, and they took lots of military equipment 312 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 3: and stuff inside the school and they threatened the school manager, 313 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 3: if you don't give us the key right now, we 314 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 3: will arrest you. We will do this and that. And 315 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 3: they also did that in the city of Kermanshah. They 316 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 3: also did that in the I remember because I worked 317 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 3: under report. It was in the neighbor in the neighborhoodhood 318 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: called the Zilabad and they took some military coupments next 319 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 3: to a hospital which was also bombed and the hospital 320 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: was damaged and some people were injured. That was one 321 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: of the things that the regime did. And at the 322 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 3: same time, I don't know if you know about this, 323 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 3: but in Iran the military service is compulsory, like Israel, 324 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 3: like many like Switzerland, like many countries. But in Iran 325 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 3: it's it's forture. It's some sort of repression against young men. 326 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 3: So across Kurtistan, for example, in a military base in 327 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 3: my hometown in Urma, it's called Almahdi. It's a very 328 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 3: big military base. I know that some soldiers who are 329 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 3: like civilians, but they are forced into it. They're like teenagers, 330 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: I don't know, nineteen twenty or twenty one, like you were. 331 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 3: Young guys, yeah, very young that really don't want to 332 00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: be there, but they are forced to. They they were 333 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: saying that their commanders threatened, if you leave the military base, 334 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: we will arrest you, we will torture you, and we 335 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 3: will execute you for betraying for like I don't know, 336 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 3: for training your country or things like that, or working 337 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 3: for Israel. This was like one of one of the 338 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 3: concerns that many families had before on those days, because 339 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 3: I talked with some people like our neighbor's son was 340 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 3: also in a military base. He is like nineteen. Yeah, 341 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 3: they were putting lots of pressure on civilians while ignoring 342 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: that what Israel is doing every day. They were bombing 343 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 3: all the military bases, I don't know places, and like 344 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 3: they were even bombing places that nobody even knew that 345 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 3: they existed. But their focus was, like the regime's focus 346 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 3: was on civilians who were just scared, who were just 347 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 3: trying to protect their families. Yeah, and this is like 348 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 3: what they started doing. And yeah, I mean it's still 349 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 3: going It still is going on, and they are arresting 350 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 3: people all the time, and as usual, the majority of 351 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 3: the focus and repression is again happening in Kurtison against 352 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 3: Kurdish people. Yeah. 353 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 2: I think it's very important people understand like that the 354 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 2: Iran it's not like an ethno state, well it is 355 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: an ethno state, but that there is not ethnically monolithic, 356 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: like the territory of Iran and the Persian ethno state 357 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 2: do not necessarily like line up. I think people will 358 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 2: also be very confused about like when we hear quote 359 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 2: unquote Iranian opposition in this country, right, it's often like 360 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: I think there's this knee jack. Oh, that's good, right, 361 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: These are people who opposed to this regime which is 362 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: brutally cracking down on people. But often then, as you say, 363 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: it's associated with like monarchists for the most part. And 364 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: then we have these various like anything in Kurdistan, right, 365 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 2: like it's an alphabet suit but like there is like 366 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 2: there were seventy five different like initial groups of initials. 367 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 2: Can you explain who some of these actors are, right, 368 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 2: we have the Iranian monarchies, we have the KDPI, we 369 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 2: have all these different groups pagiach like you say, the 370 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: kdk group. Can you explain who some of these people are? 371 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 2: For people say understand. 372 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, if I want to talk about Kurtistan, I would 373 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 3: go to the first Mother and Kurdish party called KDPI, 374 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 3: which was founded in nineteen forty five and it was 375 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 3: the founder of the Kurdistan Republic. And also then there's 376 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 3: the Koma Law Party, which is also like a socialist 377 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 3: communist leftist party, which also has several branches but they're 378 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 3: all basically the same. And also there are other parties 379 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 3: like PAK yeah, yeah, the Freedom Party of Kurdistan, and 380 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 3: also we have Pajak, the Free Life Kurdistan Party or 381 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 3: I don't know if it's that, it's the same in English. 382 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, Kaddistan Free Life Party. 383 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. These are the main political parties and actors in 384 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 3: East Kurtistan. However, there are also like smaller parties like 385 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 3: Habbat and also some parties that are affiliated like they 386 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 3: are like very small groups that are affiliated with for example, 387 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 3: the Iranian Communist Party, which is not also really big. 388 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 3: But the main ones right now are KDPI and Tomola, 389 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 3: who both of them have like a long history of 390 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 3: fighting against the regime and also against the monarchists the 391 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 3: Pahlavi regime. They were i would say, really really active 392 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 3: until like twenty twenty three. They played a very very 393 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 3: important role in the revolution and like in Kurdistan specifically 394 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 3: because they were they were the ones who were announcing 395 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 3: like strikes, and they were working together other and like 396 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 3: organizing things and helping people out to resist. Obviously, there 397 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 3: was no arm struggle at that time or conflict because 398 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 3: they said we're not going to fight because if we 399 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 3: bring the fights and conflict inside Kurdistan, the regime will 400 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 3: destroy the cities with styles. This is exactly what they 401 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 3: said at that time. Because there was a demand from 402 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 3: people that yeah, the Peshmarga forces should come in the 403 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 3: cities and fight alongside with us, but they said no, 404 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 3: if you do this, the regime will destroy the cities. 405 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 3: These are the main forces in Kurdistan, and of course 406 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 3: they have different ideologies. Pajak is like the PKK's wing, 407 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 3: or if I want to be more official, it's a 408 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 3: member of the KCK or Kjaks, we'll say. And the 409 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 3: ADPI is like as I said, the history goes back 410 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 3: to nineteen forty five and in the early seventies. And 411 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 3: also pak I'm not sure when it was founded, but 412 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 3: it was also like it was founded one by one 413 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 3: of the members of the KDPI Huseinia's Dampana. And there 414 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 3: are more of a military I would say, well organized 415 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 3: military group that they also played a good role against 416 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 3: the the Icis in twenty seventeen and eighteen, specifically in 417 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 3: keer Kuk in South Kurdistan or Iraqi Kurdistan. And about 418 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 3: the Iran in a position if I want to say, yes, 419 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 3: we have the monarchists, the rizapah Levi and his group. 420 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 3: They have like a whole long list of parties. Basically 421 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 3: they are all the same, but they have different names, 422 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 3: and they are all right wing, and they all focused 423 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 3: on the territorial integrity of Iran, but they also pretend 424 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 3: that they care also about democracy, but that's that's a lie. 425 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 3: And then we have people like Massi Alinejad, who is 426 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 3: more of She is an activist and she's she's internationally 427 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 3: known for her activism against the compulsory hy job. But 428 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 3: she doesn't have any specific party or organization. She is 429 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 3: just an activist and a journalist obviously. And also there 430 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: are other several people that work with her, like Nazani 431 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 3: Bunyati who also works with like Pa Lavis. And also 432 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 3: there is another one who also played a big role. 433 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 3: His name is Hamid Ismailiun. He is one of the 434 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: members of the families of the people who were killed 435 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 3: in that plane that was shot by missiles biology see 436 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty in Tehran. And again there were many 437 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 3: Kurds inside that Ukrainian plane as well. This person Smailuni, 438 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 3: he's one of the members of like. He lost his 439 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 3: entire family in that plane crash or attack. He organized 440 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 3: many many great and big demonstrations across Canada, Australia, I 441 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 3: think even in the US and specifically in Germany. The 442 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 3: one in Berlin was the biggest. Also, he doesn't have 443 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 3: a party, but he also somehow backed down after what 444 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 3: Alavis did, for example, like or the monarchists did with 445 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 3: the whole opposition groups. There are also some leftist groups 446 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 3: and individuals, but unfortunately they're not truly leftists. So I 447 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: want to give you a name. There is a person 448 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 3: called adah As Easy. He is also well known in 449 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 3: the US. I don't know. He wrote some books and 450 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 3: he works with really like international media. Just a few 451 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 3: days ago he posted something that said, we the leftists 452 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 3: of Iran, we are in love with our homeland and 453 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 3: we care about our homeland and we don't it just 454 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 3: posted something that was that was really nationalistic, like a 455 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 3: typical Persian Iranian sentiment. That was that that that's been 456 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 3: going on and it's got lots of criticism from different groups. 457 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 3: And then we have the the Awazi Arabs. They also 458 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 3: have some parties, but they're not really strong or active 459 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 3: or well organized, like the Kurdish ones, the Turks, the 460 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 3: Ozer by Johnny Turks. They also have some groups, but 461 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 3: they're also not very active or organized. And many of 462 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 3: these groups they are heavily affiliated with the azer Bai 463 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 3: Johnny government or the Turkish regime and specifically the MHP 464 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 3: party in Turkey, like the ulternational Turkish party yeah right, yeah, 465 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: and then the Baluchiese I can say they are more 466 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 3: organized because they have this I don't want to call 467 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 3: him a leader, but like the the highest the highest 468 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 3: level h moullah in Baluchistan, Molavi Abdulhamid. He is like 469 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 3: the most popular mulah in that region, and he was 470 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 3: one of the people that was organizing protests and he 471 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 3: was giving lots of speeches like during the Friday prayers 472 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 3: in Baluchistan, and a lot of people were. They still 473 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: like they follow him and they follow his words. But 474 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 3: unfortunately he is also like appointed as the Imam of 475 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 3: the Friday prayers, if I want to be more specific, 476 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 3: in Baluchistan by Kameny himself, the Iranian Supreme Realer. But 477 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 3: it's like a little bit hard to understand that where 478 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 3: he stands exactly because on one side he he's appointed 479 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 3: by the regime, but on the other side he's also 480 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 3: like acting as a political leader or advocate. In Baluchastan, 481 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 3: I think they also have some armed groups, but there 482 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 3: are mainly Islamists, and I would say, but they're also 483 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 3: not very very well organized. Yet they do attack the 484 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 3: IRGC members and these agents who are pressing people on 485 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 3: a daily basis sometimes and sometimes they get killed. And 486 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 3: also sometimes just a few days ago, there was a 487 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 3: fight between these people and like civilians in the village 488 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 3: and also the IRGC courses and I think two women 489 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 3: were killed and more than ten or eleven were injured. Jeez, 490 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 3: but this this fights and conflicts and they're always happening 491 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 3: in Baluchistan. Yeah, it can be hard, I. 492 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: Think, especially people aren't familiar, right, like the Pak to 493 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 2: distinguish from Pjak, like have definitely been making a big 494 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,959 Speaker 2: effort on the internet, I will say, like with their 495 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 2: Peshmerga right in the last three weeks since the US 496 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 2: entered the Israel's bombing campaign, like to a pea like 497 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 2: like this, and they are very well organized pash Mega 498 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 2: like I think they say they're inca cook. I think 499 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 2: maybe they're in Kubani as well, like maybe they yeah, 500 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 2: they joined in yeah, ye, the. 501 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 3: Pajak who was specifically in Rajava and they were also 502 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 3: fighting against Isis because like they are like as I said, 503 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 3: they are, they're a member of KCK, and there are 504 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 3: allies of PKK, so they're all are interconnected and they 505 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 3: all work together. 506 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: I think the PAK also, we're in Rushava. 507 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 3: Right, I am not sure, but I think members of 508 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 3: PAK joined like the fight in Rojava, like as individuals, 509 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 3: because the fighting was also something that people from all 510 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 3: over Kurdistan went there. 511 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, from northern Kerdistan to yeah. 512 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, And these are very organized groups, but like there 513 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 2: isn't I guess there is a kind of insurgency. But 514 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 2: as you say, like if these groups just took up 515 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 2: bombs in the cities and the IIGC would destroy everyone 516 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 2: in those cities, right, that's a I think people sometimes 517 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 2: wonder like why they don't just start fighting and then 518 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 2: there is fighting, to be clear, But like as you say, 519 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 2: the regime punishes civilians, right. 520 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is not the first time that 521 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 3: the regime does this. Every time that Israel does something 522 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 3: to the regime, because this is not the first time 523 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: that Israel has killed someone in Iran, like some IRGC 524 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 3: member or nuclear agent, nuclear scientists or whatever. Every time 525 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 3: that's happened during the past few years. Instead of responding 526 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 3: to Israel as a state. They responded to the Kurdish people. 527 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 3: I think it was just two years Again, in twenty 528 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 3: twenty two, they literally bombed a civilian house in urban 529 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 3: the capital of Iraqi, Curtistan, and they killed an entire family, 530 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,959 Speaker 3: like a it was like maybe a six seven month 531 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:13,240 Speaker 3: old baby and her father. They always respond to Kurtz 532 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 3: when they get attacked or bombed or damaged or whatever 533 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 3: by Israel or America. 534 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a soft target attarget they feel they 535 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 2: can like safely attack, you know, versus Like we know 536 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 2: now that they Iran pre warned the United States it 537 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: was going to attack its basis, you know, following this 538 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 2: bombing raid, and it was more of a performative thing 539 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 2: than a serious attempt to attack US basis. And even 540 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 2: like this week I saw in Slea money like they 541 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 2: ran Is sending shahedrones. 542 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually during the past maybe ten days, this is 543 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 3: like last night there was an attacking Slemaney. But this 544 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 3: is like I think the fourth or third time that 545 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 3: there have There have been like several drone attacks on 546 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 3: different places. So yeah, this is something that the Regeem 547 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 3: has been doing. One of the other funny things. I mean, 548 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 3: this is not funny exactly, but it's weird. I just 549 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 3: yesterday and actually two days ago. I'm not really good 550 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 3: with dates and numbers, that's okay. Just two days ago, 551 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 3: they conducted like a cyber attack on this TV channel, 552 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 3: Iran International, which is also advocating for monarchists, and they 553 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 3: expose like some nude photos and like private photos and 554 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 3: videos of some of the staff that work there, and 555 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 3: they are threatening that we will publish more if you 556 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 3: don't stop or whatever. This is also like another strategies 557 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 3: that the regime uses when they lose something, when they 558 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 3: get attacked, they also like target at this journalists or 559 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 3: for example, they threatened their families or they threatened them 560 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 3: here inside Europe or in America or Canada or wherever 561 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 3: they are. Yeah, this is like as we call it, 562 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 3: it's the transnational repression of the regime and it's been 563 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 3: going on forever and again if you look at the numbers, 564 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 3: most of the attacks have been on Kurdish activists. For example, 565 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 3: during the past thirty years, over I think around six 566 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 3: hundred non political activists have been killed by the regime 567 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 3: outside of Iran, and nearly four hundred and fifty or 568 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 3: something of them were Kurdish. Yeah, this is also another 569 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 3: thing that the regime has been doing, and in these 570 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 3: days they have intensified. Yeah. 571 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. They have a long history of trans national repression 572 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 2: and like participating in the repression of other revolutions, right, 573 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 2: Like of course they were massive backers of the side 574 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 2: regime interior. You know, all around the region. They will 575 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: find the wrong side to line up on it and 576 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 2: do that. 577 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 3: Again. 578 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 2: Of course, people will also be familiar they we supporting 579 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 2: Kazmala for instance in Lebanon. One thing I've heard is 580 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: that like the regime has been really cracking down on 581 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 2: Afghan people, like mass devotations of Afghan people who have 582 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 2: come to Iran, right and especially in the wake of 583 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 2: this bombing campaign. 584 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: Can we talk about that briefly. 585 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,240 Speaker 3: Yes, of course. I think that's one of the most 586 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 3: horrible things that happened after the war so far. We 587 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 3: know that just in June they deported over thirty thousand 588 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 3: Afghans and it's still going on, like they mass support 589 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 3: tens of thousands of Afghan refugees every day, and just 590 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 3: something that was really horrible to me when I read it. 591 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 3: There were six thousand kids that were unregistered and they 592 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 3: were separated from their parents and they were sent back 593 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,959 Speaker 3: to Afghanistan alone Jesus. Yeah, and they are haunting down 594 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 3: Afghan my grants in different cities across around, especially in 595 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 3: Tehran because most of them are there. And the thing 596 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 3: is that the Afghan I think there are over three 597 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 3: million Afghan migrants in Iran or maybe more. Yeah, nobody 598 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 3: knows the exact numbers because the Iranian government never ever 599 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 3: publishes the true statistics, but there are millions of them 600 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 3: in Iran and they are not actually allowed to They 601 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 3: were not allowed actually like they're getting kicked out right now, 602 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 3: but they were not allowed to work in Kurdish cities. 603 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,760 Speaker 3: They were only allowed to work in Persian speaking cities 604 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 3: like Tehran, Mashatras, Isfahan and these big industrial cities. So 605 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 3: like right now, if you look at the internet, they 606 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,439 Speaker 3: are being hunted down by Iranian agents everywhere and they're 607 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 3: being forced to go back to Afghanistan. And one of 608 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,760 Speaker 3: the things that I want to mention that's been going 609 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,919 Speaker 3: on from a humanitarian perspective, that really really makes me sad, 610 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 3: and also it reflects a very ugly reality about the 611 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 3: Persian or the Iranian society and the amount of racism 612 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 3: and fascism that exists among them, not just by the regime, 613 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 3: by the people as well. There have been hundreds of 614 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 3: videos and footage online. You can also check just certain 615 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 3: you will see that random citizens, young people, they are 616 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 3: attacking Afghan people in the city and I don't know, 617 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 3: in subways, in the parks, in cheese, in public places. 618 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 3: Just yesterday I saw a very heartbreaking video because like 619 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 3: Afgone people, they also have a different look. You can 620 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 3: easily say that they're not Iranians. An Afghan teenager was 621 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 3: being attacked by eggs Jesus and they were just throwing 622 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 3: eggs at him and then they poured like lots of 623 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 3: some powder and then like some juice and like Coca cola. 624 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,240 Speaker 3: I don't know what was that. They were just throwing 625 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 3: everything at him. And on the other another videw that 626 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 3: I saw, they stopped a man maybe he was thirty 627 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 3: or something. They forced him to kiss the hand of 628 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 3: a stray dog. I mean, yeah, that would be like, yeah, 629 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 3: he's kissing a dog. But in the Middle East culture, 630 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 3: when you force someone to kiss a dog. 631 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: It's very disrespectful. 632 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really disrespectful, and like they're also I read 633 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 3: on the internet that many Afghans reported that, like for example, 634 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 3: in Tehran, they were renting a house or an apartment 635 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 3: or something, and they were living in those apartments and 636 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 3: the landlord reported them to the police. It's like what's 637 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 3: happening in the US. It's something like ice, but it's 638 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 3: Iranian but more brutal. Then the police just came and 639 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 3: took them all. And now the landlords are refusing to 640 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 3: give back the passion money to Afghuns, and many of 641 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 3: them are being forced out with any food, without any 642 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,439 Speaker 3: support anything, and especially the women, like I also read 643 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 3: about like a doctor that fled Polybon and he was 644 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 3: in Tehran and now if he goes back, the Tolliban 645 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 3: will definitely kill him because he was like against Tolliban. Yeah, 646 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's it's a very horrible humanitarian situation. 647 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 3: And the people, like in Baluchistan, they're also suffering. But 648 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,280 Speaker 3: I saw many videos and also some of the activists 649 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,280 Speaker 3: published lots of footage that they were they were bringing food, water, 650 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 3: I don't know, medicine and things like that on the 651 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 3: on the road to give it to those people who 652 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 3: are going back, and they were offering I don't know 653 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 3: whatever they had. And in Afghanistan there is also happening. 654 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 3: But it's just so crazy because both the regime and 655 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 3: also the anti regime media are trying to portray Afghans 656 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 3: as the problem, just exactly like how the far right 657 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 3: parties in like if they are portraying refugees and migrants 658 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 3: are as the main problem. 659 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a global thing. It happens here in the 660 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 1: US UK. 661 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's exactly the same. Yeah, and like unfortunately 662 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 3: the even the Iranian opposition has not been clear. But 663 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 3: again because there is some sort of solidarity that encourage 664 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 3: pollutes and Afghans and also other minorities. It's the minorities 665 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 3: that talk about this. It's the minority groups and organizations 666 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 3: who try to raise awareness over this. Unfortunately, I think 667 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,840 Speaker 3: nobody can stop it because they're doing it anyways. 668 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like we shouldn't support an opposition politics and 669 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,800 Speaker 2: it's just another ethno. No, Like we see that in 670 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 2: Syria right now, right, Like, yeah, they haven't even changed 671 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,839 Speaker 2: the name. We have this revolution, tens of thousands, maybe 672 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 2: one hundreds of thousands of people definitely died to build 673 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,359 Speaker 2: something better. We still have the Syrian Arab Republic. Yeah, yeah, 674 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 2: it's maybe the Ala Whites are being persecuted now and 675 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 2: they weren't before, But like that shouldn't matter, right, Like 676 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 2: if we if we're build trying to build something better. 677 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 3: I mean, there are just remnants of isis. So what 678 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 3: can you expect? 679 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, it's uh yeah, it's very sad to see, 680 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 2: you know, after after so much killing and dying, I 681 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 2: guess to finish up. I think people in the US 682 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,320 Speaker 2: do not get very good coverage of what's happening in 683 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 2: a run, right, Like it said that, as you say, 684 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 2: dominated by monarchist outlets, we tend to have good resources 685 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,439 Speaker 2: which allow them to kind of get to the top 686 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 2: of people's feeds or they're getting like press, TV stuff, 687 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 2: right that just like rage straight up regime propaganda. Now, 688 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 2: where can people find like good resources to understand what's 689 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 2: what's happening in a round? Like from the perspective of 690 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 2: you know, the majority of people who just want to 691 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 2: live a free life, and especially like you know, the 692 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 2: women in particularly in a round, right, an extremely difficult 693 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,719 Speaker 2: and repressive every the regime dominates every aspect of their life. Like, 694 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 2: where can people find reasonable coverage that achnowledge is there. 695 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 3: Honestly, if I want to talk about media like TV 696 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 3: channels or just media websites, there is no media like 697 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 3: Iranian media that truly reflects what's happening in Iran. There 698 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 3: are like many leftists and also right wing medias from 699 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,359 Speaker 3: for example, if I want to go like a very 700 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 3: leftist media called Radio Zamani, they are not really good. 701 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 3: Like then we have Iran International, BBC, Persian Voice of America, 702 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 3: Persian Independent, Persian like there are many many media that 703 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 3: all of these, like I would say the big media, 704 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 3: they are heavily dominated and I would say exploited by 705 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 3: the ultranationalist people. And also there are people who are 706 00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:00,800 Speaker 3: related to IRGC and this organization called Naya that is 707 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,919 Speaker 3: like the regime's lobby group in the US, and these 708 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 3: individuals that work there, they truly don't reflect what's happening there. 709 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 3: And I mean, it's it's kind of hard because if 710 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 3: people want to understand what's happening, maybe they should read 711 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,839 Speaker 3: everything they're posting and then analyze that, hey, this makes 712 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,279 Speaker 3: sense and this doesn't. But that just a little bit hard. 713 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 3: But also on the other side, I would suggest that 714 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:30,800 Speaker 3: people should follow more human rights organizations, which again some 715 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,839 Speaker 3: of them, if I want, I don't know if it's 716 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 3: okay to say their names, some of them and the 717 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,840 Speaker 3: people for example, the Burumant Organization, they did lots of 718 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:45,000 Speaker 3: great work, but recently again they showed some sort of 719 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 3: racism and like censorship against minorities, especially Kurt and people 720 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 3: like Lot and bozs are gone. They are like also 721 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,839 Speaker 3: doing some human rights work in the US, and even 722 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 3: people like Massi and all the I would say known activists, 723 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 3: and even here in Germany, they are not truly reflecting 724 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 3: what's happening. They're just focused on the Persian perspective and 725 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 3: they're like they talk about minorities time to time, but 726 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 3: only when it fits into their agendas, into their ideologies 727 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 3: and perspectives. But there are other organizations which I'm working with, 728 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 3: like Hangout Organizations for human rights. Until two thousand, late 729 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, I guess we were mainly focused on 730 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 3: East Kurdistan, but right now we report human rights violations 731 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 3: from all over Iran, like yeah, but we try our best, 732 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 3: and I think I could say that we are one 733 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,879 Speaker 3: of the best when it comes to all these things, 734 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 3: and we don't care about what people think. We just 735 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 3: report what's happening or what happened. And there are other 736 00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:01,000 Speaker 3: organizations like Iran Human Rights they're also good. For example, 737 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 3: there is another one called Tawana. They are like a 738 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:09,160 Speaker 3: very big organization, but unfortunately they advocated for the monarchists 739 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 3: again just a few months ago, so it's kind of 740 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 3: hard to see that who is truly on the side 741 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,959 Speaker 3: of people. And when you look at the human rights organizations. 742 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,800 Speaker 3: I'm not saying this because I'm Kurdish, but this is 743 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 3: what I see and I think it's true. The only 744 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 3: organizations that truly reflect what's happening without caring about people's 745 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 3: backgrounds or ethnicity or whatever. It's our organization hang out 746 00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,600 Speaker 3: and also like organizations like Curtis on Human Rights Network, 747 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,240 Speaker 3: but unfortunately the majority of the others are are really clear. 748 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 3: So for Kurdish issue that I would say definitely hang 749 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 3: out and also on my page Kurtistani people I also 750 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,359 Speaker 3: like write a lot of things, and also Kurdish Piece 751 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,080 Speaker 3: Institute and Kurtish Center for Studies. They have lots of 752 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,239 Speaker 3: other Kurdish journalists and experts that write a lot of 753 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 3: really good articles about the situation there. And if I 754 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 3: want to mention names, I would say Roji Mokiani. She 755 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 3: is like a really great researcher. She lives in Ireland. 756 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 3: There is another professor called Camraan Martin. He also writes 757 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,200 Speaker 3: really great analysis on situation and like the things that 758 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,560 Speaker 3: people even don't think about. They're writing with so many 759 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 3: different international organizations and institutes. Yeah, there are like these 760 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 3: individuals and activists. 761 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. That was really 762 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,759 Speaker 2: that really helped, I think for people to understand things. 763 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 2: Tell us about your your Kurdistan People page. Where can 764 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,800 Speaker 2: they find that on on Instagram? 765 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for inviting me and thank you for 766 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 3: letting me speak. Yeah, I have this page Kurdistani People. 767 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 3: I usually post about all over Kurdistan the things that matter. 768 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 3: Obviously I can't do it all the time, but yeah, yeah, 769 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,719 Speaker 3: I post a lot of things. And there are other 770 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 3: pages that are also collaborate with, like Kurtish Activism or 771 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,719 Speaker 3: everything about Kurtistan. We're just a group of people who 772 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 3: work together. Obviously, like our organization, I think it's it's 773 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,200 Speaker 3: very very important for people to follow and support it. 774 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 3: Hang Out Organization for Human Rights and also Kurtistan Human 775 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 3: Rights Network that's also like another one that you can follow. Yeah, 776 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 3: and also like gay I talked about some names and 777 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,759 Speaker 3: individuals and researchers. You can also follow them for more 778 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 3: professional analysis about East Kurtistan or Rochalot. 779 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Great, well, thank you Sam for joining us. We 780 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,960 Speaker 2: really appreciate your time. Thank you, Thank you very much. 781 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,920 Speaker 3: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 782 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 783 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,800 Speaker 3: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 784 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,719 Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 785 00:51:58,239 --> 00:51:59,919 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It Could Happen. 786 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 3: You are listed directly in episode descriptions. 787 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.