Speaker 1: You can get a sense of what the world was
Speaker 1: like in nine by looking at the covers of Time
Speaker 1: magazine from that year. There's Chairman Mao, the communist leader
Speaker 1: of the People's Republic of China whose Cultural revolution had
Speaker 1: plunged his country into chaos. General William Westmoreland, commander of
Speaker 1: US forces in Vietnam, confident of victory in a war
Speaker 1: that was becoming more and more unpopular. Sandy Dennis, whose
Speaker 1: performance and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolfe won her an oscar?
Speaker 1: And newlyweds Margaret Rusk and Guy Smith. Okay, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure you don't recognize those names. Margaret, better known as Peggy,
Speaker 1: was the daughter of then Secretary of State Dean Rusk,
Speaker 1: Guy Smith, her longtime love. So why were they on
Speaker 1: the September seven cover of Time? For the simple reason
Speaker 1: that Peggy was white and Guy was black. The headline
Speaker 1: reads Mr. And Mrs Guy Smith an interracial marriage. Margaret
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Rusk, only daughter of Secretary of State Dean Rusk,
Speaker 1: becomes the wife of Air Force Reserve Lieutenant Guy Gibson Smith,
Speaker 1: a Negro. Nineteen sixty seven, it turned out was a
Speaker 1: very big year for interracial marriage. In all the field
Speaker 1: of race relations, probably nothing is more sensitive than the
Speaker 1: issue of inter marriage. That June, in the landmark ruling
Speaker 1: of Loving versus Virginia, the Supreme Court struck down state
Speaker 1: laws banning it in the United States. Mildred and Richard
Speaker 1: Loving had actually gone to jail after getting married. We
Speaker 1: were in it because we got married, We loved each
Speaker 1: other and gotten married. The Court's decision was unanimous, but
Speaker 1: only a fifth of Americans actually approved of interracial marriage,
Speaker 1: an attitude that Hollywood was about to address with a
Speaker 1: major motion picture. Three Academy Award winners and a bright
Speaker 1: young newcomer combine their talents in a love story of today.
Speaker 1: In December, the movie Guests Who's Coming to Dinner starred
Speaker 1: Sydney Pottier as a black doctor planning to marry a
Speaker 1: white woman and delivering the news to his future in
Speaker 1: laws played by Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy Mrs Drayton.
Speaker 1: I'm medically qualified, so I hope you wouldn't think it presumptous.
Speaker 1: If I say you want to sit down before you
Speaker 1: fall down, he thinks she's going to faint because he's
Speaker 1: a Negro. Well I don't think I'm going to fade
Speaker 1: in the middle of all of this, a very private
Speaker 1: couple thrust into the spotlight. Ms. Rusk and Mr Smith
Speaker 1: had obviously thought long and hard about the consequences of
Speaker 1: a mixed marriage, but Peggy Rusk Smith says she and
Speaker 1: her husband had only one focus as they walked down
Speaker 1: the aisle. We didn't get married for any reason. In
Speaker 1: the fact that we left it to other. We weren't
Speaker 1: trying to prove anything, change anything. Sorry to mean some
Speaker 1: more in the truth of it. But the story of
Speaker 1: her and her late husband is anything but boring. It
Speaker 1: involves romance in turbulent times, presidents, movie stars, and horses.
Speaker 1: We'll hear that story and along the way, look back
Speaker 1: at the surprising history of interracial relationships in the United States.
Speaker 1: From CBS Sunday Morning and I Heart I'm Morocca and
Speaker 1: this is Mobituaries, this moment Mr and Mrs Smith and
Speaker 1: the year that changed marriage in America. You know, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you a funny story about the dress. I've had
Speaker 1: it cleaned and boxed and sealed, so it's still in
Speaker 1: good shape from when I first and I wore it.
Speaker 1: So I thought, well, maybe I should give it to
Speaker 1: a thrift shop. And well, whoever I was speaking to, said,
Speaker 1: why don't you see if the Smithsonian wants it? And
Speaker 1: I said, oh, please, But to make them happy, I
Speaker 1: called him into my shock. The Smithsonian does want it, Peggy.
Speaker 1: Of course they wanted. This was a big deal. I'm
Speaker 1: going to give it to you straight. Peggy Rusk is
Speaker 1: not the type of person I'm used to interviewing. She's
Speaker 1: the opposite of a hype artist. But don't be fooled.
Speaker 1: Her story was remarkable for its time. So let's go
Speaker 1: back to when Peggy was eleven and her father became
Speaker 1: Secretary of State under President John F. Kennedy. Why did
Speaker 1: he accept the job because he was asked. The President
Speaker 1: asked him, and he believed, if the President asked you
Speaker 1: to do something, you do it to serve your country. Yes,
Speaker 1: he didn't want to, but he was asked. The Rusk
Speaker 1: family quickly transitioned from a quiet life in Scarsdale, New York,
Speaker 1: to a busy life of politics and diplomacy in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. As the daughter of America's top diplomat. Peggy
Speaker 1: accompanied her mother to receptions at various embassies. So I
Speaker 1: got used to seeing people from all of the world,
Speaker 1: all different nationalities and ethnicities and different language, different dress,
Speaker 1: difference with normal To me, it was an exciting but
Speaker 1: also kind of a lonely time. My parents were gone
Speaker 1: all the time. It was very rare for them to
Speaker 1: be home. She threw herself into one of her early loves,
Speaker 1: horseback riding at Washington's Rock Creek Park, and it was there,
Speaker 1: at age fourteen, that she found another love, Guy Smith,
Speaker 1: a writing instructor at the Stables. Guy had grown up
Speaker 1: in Washington, the only child of an analyst working at
Speaker 1: the Pentagon and a teacher. And what was it about him?
Speaker 1: Just from his appearance that immediately made you go, WHOA,
Speaker 1: He's cute, what can I say? And very sweet, a
Speaker 1: gentleman and friendly open A few years older, five years older,
Speaker 1: five years older. The age difference didn't seem to face Peggy.
Speaker 1: She emphasizes that their relationship began very much as a friendship.
Speaker 1: In fact, she saw a number of similarities between Guy's
Speaker 1: family and her own, as mother and father were wonderful,
Speaker 1: wonderful people, very smart, um well educated. Their house was
Speaker 1: full of books and full of classical music. My father
Speaker 1: and Guy's father were like book heads. Guy's parents had
Speaker 1: sent him to the progressive Georgetown Day School, integrated at
Speaker 1: its founding in when d c's public schools were still segregated.
Speaker 1: Guy would go on to attend Georgetown University. But Peggy
Speaker 1: also acknowledges how race made their experiences very different. Guy
Speaker 1: had to travel a good distance from his predominantly black
Speaker 1: neighborhood of Ladroit Park just to get to the stables
Speaker 1: each day. It's it's sad because as our home in
Speaker 1: Spring Valley was appreciating, their home where they lived on
Speaker 1: the other sided, city was depreciating, and they couldn't just
Speaker 1: live anywhere. They couldn't buy anywhere, and then probably places
Speaker 1: wouldn't rent to them. To another difference between the two
Speaker 1: where they stood politically well. Guy was a conservative, he
Speaker 1: voted for gold Water. Guy was a conservative Republican right
Speaker 1: and I was a liberal Democrat. But back then politics
Speaker 1: did not color your life the way for some people now.
Speaker 1: Things would eventually progress between the two. At where Else
Speaker 1: a horse show, the show had a pair's event where
Speaker 1: two writers would compete together, and Guy had come at
Speaker 1: the show grants and asked me if I would pair
Speaker 1: with him, Yeah, that must have been exciting. It was exciting.
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, sure, But when guy suddenly had
Speaker 1: to pair with another girl in the competition, Peggy was
Speaker 1: crushed and I left the show grants and started writing,
Speaker 1: this is really a young mind at work. I was
Speaker 1: going to ride until he got dark. Have them all
Speaker 1: worried about what happened, especially him, worry about what had
Speaker 1: happened to me. Yes, you know, so this is just
Speaker 1: my payback. You would go missing, I would go missing, yes,
Speaker 1: and he would feel guilty. Yes, exactly. It was a
Speaker 1: great plan, but unfortunately nobody seemed to realize Peggy was missing.
Speaker 1: So I decided, okay, it's time to go back to
Speaker 1: the barn. Right. It was totally dark, but no one
Speaker 1: was there. I thought, what, they've all come home and
Speaker 1: not even noticed that I wasn't back. They were a
Speaker 1: horse and they all left, and nobody gives um. You
Speaker 1: know what. I took the horse down, put him in
Speaker 1: the stall, and was brushing him with the tears rolling
Speaker 1: down my face. I can see it, yes, feeling completely
Speaker 1: unloved by every soul. When who should appear? So I'm
Speaker 1: in the corner stall and I hear footsteps down, coming
Speaker 1: down the cement alway, and you know I'm going to
Speaker 1: like this, trying to clean my face, wiping your tears.
Speaker 1: I see that you've been crying, right, And he gets
Speaker 1: to the edge of the and he said, would you
Speaker 1: like a ride home? Sure? You know this suddenly has
Speaker 1: gotten great? Yes? Really great? Even better. On the way home,
Speaker 1: he invited me to go to the or showed dinner
Speaker 1: banquet with him. Did you recognize that he was asking
Speaker 1: as he was asking you on a date. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: to go to the banquet, okay, yes, But before the
Speaker 1: two would set out on their date, Guy felt it
Speaker 1: was important to get permission from Peggy's mother. Was it
Speaker 1: just that he was very formal? I think he was
Speaker 1: very polite and well raised. But I also think he
Speaker 1: might have been smart enough to realize that if he
Speaker 1: showed himself in person to my mother, if there was
Speaker 1: an issue with the race, she could just say no,
Speaker 1: she can't go, and the race is she wouldn't come
Speaker 1: up this way. There would be no surprises. Your mother
Speaker 1: would know that she was saying, asked to you going
Speaker 1: to a banquet with a black man. I thought it
Speaker 1: was brilliant in retrospect. Now, remember It's ninety three, the
Speaker 1: year before the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 1: When former President Harry Truman, the man who had signed
Speaker 1: the executive Order integrating the armed forces, was asked by
Speaker 1: reporters about his thoughts and intermarriage, he replied that he
Speaker 1: didn't believe in it, so it wouldn't have been shocking
Speaker 1: if Peggy's parents took issue with her daughter dating an
Speaker 1: African American. Was Guy's race ever discussed by you and
Speaker 1: your parents? It must have been at some point. Never.
Speaker 1: Peggy's parents, she says, were different, particularly her dad, which
Speaker 1: is kind of surprising. Dean Rusk was a sub learned
Speaker 1: Democrat from Cherokee County, Georgia, the grandson of Confederate soldiers.
Speaker 1: As a young boy, he delivered groceries to white families
Speaker 1: and the black families who lived literally on the other
Speaker 1: side of the tracks. When he would deliver to their
Speaker 1: black families, um, everybody would be sitting outside on the
Speaker 1: steps because it was hot, and Pop said. He would
Speaker 1: sit on the steps and listen to them talk and
Speaker 1: realized that what they said was completely different than what
Speaker 1: black people would say when they were around white people.
Speaker 1: Looking back, russ would remember that he quote heard their
Speaker 1: anger and learned of their hopes, and even at age eight, quote,
Speaker 1: I could sense the unfairness of it all. As he
Speaker 1: grew up, he quietly took a stand against racial intolerance.
Speaker 1: In two while serving in the War Department's Military Intelligence
Speaker 1: off us, he was meeting with Ralph Bunch, a young
Speaker 1: analyst who would go on to become a civil rights leader,
Speaker 1: a diplomat, and the first African American to win the
Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize. It was lunchtime and Pap said, let's
Speaker 1: go the captain he gets lunch and Mr. Bunch said, Dan,
Speaker 1: you know I can't go eat there. And Pap said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll see about that. It just went and from that
Speaker 1: day on it's disagregated. Now, as Secretary of State, Dean
Speaker 1: Rusk's unwavering support of American involvement in Vietnam is a
Speaker 1: permanent part of his legacy. It's in the first line
Speaker 1: of his New York Times, Oh Bit, Rusk was on
Speaker 1: the wrong side of history on Vietnam, But what's been
Speaker 1: forgotten is his equally unstinting support of civil rights. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just a moral issue for him, It was also
Speaker 1: a foreign policy concern. He believed legalized segregation would keep
Speaker 1: the US from winning the Cold War. And this was
Speaker 1: the time when the African nations were being built, and
Speaker 1: so there are a lot of new African diplomats in Washington,
Speaker 1: But the capital of the Free World welcomed these dignitaries
Speaker 1: with less than open arms. In the early nineteen sixties,
Speaker 1: d C remained largely segregated, if not legally, then in practice.
Speaker 1: Black diplomats were living and working there, yet often unable
Speaker 1: to find housing or be served in many restaurants. Again,
Speaker 1: these were diplomats. A Washington Post article from the time
Speaker 1: notes that d C was becoming a hardship post for
Speaker 1: these emissaries. The situation outside the city limits was even
Speaker 1: worse for diplomats traveling by car between the nation's capital
Speaker 1: and the United Nations in New York City. The only
Speaker 1: route was a on US Highway forty, which passed for
Speaker 1: a stretch through Maryland, a state where businesses were still
Speaker 1: legally permitted to segregate customers or even refused to serve.
Speaker 1: African diplomats found themselves ejected from restaurants or unable to
Speaker 1: use the bathroom. In nineteen sixty one, the ambassador from
Speaker 1: the newly formed country of Chad was refused service as
Speaker 1: he tried to get a cup of coffee in a
Speaker 1: Maryland diner. The Governor of Maryland apologized after the White
Speaker 1: House and Attorney General Robert Kennedy interceded on a personal note.
Speaker 1: I find this little known chapter of history particularly disturbing.
Speaker 1: I grew up in the nineteen seventies in the Maryland
Speaker 1: suburbs outside d C. The sauntering drive down Massachusetts Avenue,
Speaker 1: also known as Embassy Row towards downtown is something I remember,
Speaker 1: fondly passing one ornate embassy after another, ring to memorize
Speaker 1: the flags outside each one. The people who worked there
Speaker 1: were their country's representatives to America. I had no idea
Speaker 1: of what black African diplomats were subjected to. Only a
Speaker 1: decade earlier. The troubling and embarrassing situation was summed up
Speaker 1: in a powerful speech given by former CBS news anchor
Speaker 1: Edward R. Murrow back in May of n Murrow had
Speaker 1: recently become Director of the United States Information Agency, and
Speaker 1: he delivered a stark warning. It is not only that
Speaker 1: these people are humans like the rest of us, but
Speaker 1: that they are leaders of the nations whose friendship this
Speaker 1: land deems vital. We would have them join our company
Speaker 1: of honorable men and defending against him, Coachman, our dedication
Speaker 1: to dignity and freedom, but it is a dignity to
Speaker 1: which we were not fully admit them. And in a
Speaker 1: nod cold war tensions, Murrow noted, and let us remember
Speaker 1: this is not something that communists did to us. We
Speaker 1: do it ourselves in our own capital. Is it possible
Speaker 1: that we concern ourselves too much with outer space and
Speaker 1: fireplaces and too little with inner space and nearer places.
Speaker 1: Rusk and the State Department knew that these discriminatory actions
Speaker 1: were damaging America's reputation overseas. It was a huge problem
Speaker 1: for him a Secretary State. I just think it showed
Speaker 1: the United States to behavo critical and not willing to
Speaker 1: live up to its own constitution. In Pilla, France, throwing
Speaker 1: his support behind the proposed Civil Rights Act, Dean Rusk
Speaker 1: testified in a Senate hearing in July of nine three,
Speaker 1: sparring with South Carolina Senator Strong Thermond. Do you favor
Speaker 1: the demonstrations that have been held and would you favor
Speaker 1: demonstrations in the future. If the civil rights builders not
Speaker 1: pays various types of demonstration, I would not wish to
Speaker 1: make a blanket statement about all those that I have
Speaker 1: known about what I would say this, sir, if I
Speaker 1: were denied what our Nego citizens denied, I would demonstrate. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: his daughter's boyfriend was experiencing discrimination firsthand. We were stopped
Speaker 1: at times by the police in d C. In d
Speaker 1: C and they would make God get out, make us
Speaker 1: both get out, and they would take forever searching the car,
Speaker 1: looking for a reason to arrest him or define him,
Speaker 1: or do whatever. And I could see Guy being having
Speaker 1: to hold his temper. And it was an uncomfortable time.
Speaker 1: Were you ever tempted to say I'm the daughter of
Speaker 1: the Secretary of State? Because that would have been I
Speaker 1: kept my mouth set, okay um, But it was not comfortable.
Speaker 1: It made guy angry, was it? He? Was it humiliating?
Speaker 1: I know it made him angry because I could see
Speaker 1: it in his eyes. I don't know if humiliating the
Speaker 1: right word. I think people of color back then, when
Speaker 1: they were unjustly treated, we're more angry than humiliated in
Speaker 1: spite of the issues they faced. Peggy also acknowledges the
Speaker 1: guy's physical appearance was likely a factor in some people
Speaker 1: being more accepting of the relationship. I'm sure that it
Speaker 1: made it easier in ways that he was light skinned.
Speaker 1: After dating for several years, Peggy and Guy decided they
Speaker 1: wanted to get hitched. It was Christmas of nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: six when Peggy, home from her freshman year at Stanford,
Speaker 1: told her parents she would be getting married the following year.
Speaker 1: He was going to be going off to Vietnam and
Speaker 1: I would be eighteen, and um, we didn't ask for
Speaker 1: my parents permission. We just said we're going to get
Speaker 1: married in September, just like that. But they had no
Speaker 1: idea how big a deal this wedding would be, or
Speaker 1: that nineteen seven would prove to be a game changing
Speaker 1: year for interracial marriage. After all, an awful lot of
Speaker 1: people are going to think that we were a very
Speaker 1: shocking pair, Isn't that right? Mrs Straight I know what
Speaker 1: you mean. I get that history doesn't move in a
Speaker 1: straight line, but the history of interracial relationships in this
Speaker 1: country really moves in zigs and zags. With a number
Speaker 1: of famous and not so famous names. We're going to
Speaker 1: get to Peggy and Guy's wedding day in a bit,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to go back further in time to
Speaker 1: really explore how we got to. Is this a story
Speaker 1: that begins and ends in Virginia. Yeah, absolutely it does.
Speaker 1: That's Cheryl cash And she's a Georgetown University law professor
Speaker 1: and the author of Loving Interracial Intimacy and the Threat
Speaker 1: to White Supremacy. She says interracial relationships began in the
Speaker 1: earliest years of the Virginia Colony. At the time, she writes,
Speaker 1: there were legal unions between white people and black people
Speaker 1: like Tony Longo. Tony long Ago was a very skilled
Speaker 1: cattleman when he arrived as a kidnapped en slave person.
Speaker 1: By sixtifty two, he owned two acres of land in
Speaker 1: the colony. In the Jamestown Colony, cash And says some
Speaker 1: enslaved black people were able to hire themselves out and
Speaker 1: buy their freedom for a time. They were then able
Speaker 1: to vote, bear arms, and marry, which is what Tony
Speaker 1: Longo eventually did, marrying a white englishwoman after obtaining his freedom,
Speaker 1: And he wasn't the only one. There was no prohibition
Speaker 1: against interracial marriage at that time. Were they living their
Speaker 1: lives fairly openly. Do we know, Yes, it was not illegal.
Speaker 1: So this marriage, which was legally sanctioned, underscores that at
Speaker 1: least among the working class people, there wasn't this strict separation.
Speaker 1: And you know, there was actually a lot of interracial cooperation,
Speaker 1: particularly around resistance to masters. Fearful of free black people
Speaker 1: and white indentured servants coming together and rebelling, new laws
Speaker 1: were created to enforce separation, denying black people first the
Speaker 1: right to bear arms, then the right to vote. By
Speaker 1: interracial marriage was illegal in Virginia. Other colonies and eventually
Speaker 1: states would enact similar laws. Still, interracial relationships were happening. Okay,
Speaker 1: quick note, I'm using the word relationship to describe how
Speaker 1: two individuals related to each other, not to imply consent.
Speaker 1: You probably know the story of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings,
Speaker 1: which by most accounts was non consensual. After all, she
Speaker 1: was enslaved by Jefferson at Monticello. But Cheryl cash In
Speaker 1: writes about a relationship between another slaveholding white politician and
Speaker 1: a black woman that she describes differently. I consider myself
Speaker 1: a presidential history buff, but clearly I need to bone
Speaker 1: up on my vice presidential history, because I had no
Speaker 1: idea that Martin Van Buren's vice president, Richard Mentor Johnson,
Speaker 1: had an interracial relationship that you described as sort of
Speaker 1: a common law marriage. Richard Mentor Johnson actually was one
Speaker 1: of the best known politicians of his era, and Johnson
Speaker 1: became the center of national attention during the election of
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty six when the public became aware of his
Speaker 1: common law marriage with Julia Chen, a mixed race woman.
Speaker 1: Enslaved by his family, Johnson, from Kentucky had two daughters
Speaker 1: with Chen and publicly recognized them as his own. The
Speaker 1: daughters lived their lives as free women, both marrying white men.
Speaker 1: People were scandalous. What was shocking was that he was
Speaker 1: bringing this out into the open and trying to have
Speaker 1: it legitimated because he genuinely loved this woman. Johnson defended
Speaker 1: his marriage as quote, under the eyes of God. While
Speaker 1: he was serving in Congress, Julia Chinn died. What really
Speaker 1: scandalized people about this man is that he continued to
Speaker 1: take up with black women he enslaved. I guess he
Speaker 1: had a thing about that. Southern newspapers denounced Richard Mentor
Speaker 1: Johnson as the great amalgamationist. As far as I can tell, um,
Speaker 1: the relationship with Julia chen was was a benevolent, voluntary relationship,
Speaker 1: but his subsequent sex with other black women, as far
Speaker 1: as I could tell, was rape. So I would use
Speaker 1: rapist at least for these subsequent relationships. Fast forward to
Speaker 1: the post Civil War North and a figure who still
Speaker 1: looms large today, the great right or abolitionist Frederick Douglas.
Speaker 1: I had no idea that he had married a white woman.
Speaker 1: Never knew this, Really, you didn't know this. Douglas, the
Speaker 1: child of a black mother and white father, was married
Speaker 1: for over forty years to Anna Murray Douglas, a free
Speaker 1: black woman, But in eighteen eighty four, a year and
Speaker 1: a half after Anna's death, he married a white suffragist
Speaker 1: named Helen Pitts in Philadelphia, where interracial marriage was legal.
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas emancipated himself not only from slavery, but from
Speaker 1: the social constrictions of race. He was the center of
Speaker 1: a bi racial abolitionist movement that gave some opportunity to
Speaker 1: actually meet someone on equal terms and equal intellectual terms.
Speaker 1: Douglas's marriage caused an uproar, and not just among white people, ball.
Speaker 1: A black Washington, d c. Newspaper called it a national calamity.
Speaker 1: Black reformer and intellectual book or T. Washington wrote his
Speaker 1: own race especially condemned him, and the notion seemed to
Speaker 1: be quite general that he had made the most serious
Speaker 1: mistake of his life. Well, this is what happens. You know,
Speaker 1: You've been centuries teaching people to stay within lines and
Speaker 1: having rules that fortify a color line. It colors the
Speaker 1: practices of people on both sides of the line. In
Speaker 1: a letter to a friend, Douglas defended his marriage, asking
Speaker 1: what business has the world with the color of my wife?
Speaker 1: So ahead of his time? You know, just to say,
Speaker 1: I am going to do what my heart tells me
Speaker 1: to do, and I'm going to exercise every discretion that
Speaker 1: freedom springs, including who I decided to marry in love.
Speaker 1: While Frederick Douglas was able to marry someone of a
Speaker 1: different race in the late eighteen hundreds, that was certainly
Speaker 1: not the case everywhere. The post Civil War era of
Speaker 1: reconstruction had seen the end of some interracial marriage bands,
Speaker 1: but in most cases only briefly. The doors would close
Speaker 1: again towards the end of the nineteenth century, as Jim
Speaker 1: Crow laws went into effect in the South. In nineteen fifteen,
Speaker 1: D W. Griffith's landmark and deeply racist film The Birth
Speaker 1: of a Nation was released. In one of its more
Speaker 1: infamous scenes, an actor in blackface menaces a Southern white
Speaker 1: woman who leaps to her death rather than submit to him.
Speaker 1: This pernicious myth of the black man as a predator
Speaker 1: was being perpetuated cash and says as a way of
Speaker 1: preventing the races from mixing. From the beginning, that was
Speaker 1: a central part of the dogma around race and civil rights.
Speaker 1: You know, the fear that if we give any black freedom,
Speaker 1: your daughter is going to end up having sex with
Speaker 1: the black man. And how enduring and central the political
Speaker 1: debates around race were tied to this question of interracial
Speaker 1: marriage and interracial sex. By the mid twentie century, attitudes
Speaker 1: had calcified, particularly though not exclusively, in the South. In
Speaker 1: the late nineteen fifties, only four percent of Americans approved
Speaker 1: of interracial marriage. Once you put in place an institution
Speaker 1: that's animated by an ideology, here the ideology white supremacy.
Speaker 1: The ideology continues even after the institution slavery ends. Generation
Speaker 1: after generation is conscripted into this social order which says
Speaker 1: you should not cross this line. So those habits continue.
Speaker 1: So it's very hard to disrupt something like that. But
Speaker 1: disruption finally came in nineteen sixty seven thanks to a
Speaker 1: couple named Richard and Mildred Loving. The story that began
Speaker 1: years ago in the farmlands of Caroline County may provide
Speaker 1: the landmark decision on interracial marriage. The two had grown
Speaker 1: up together in Central Point, a small town in Virginia
Speaker 1: with a long history of white and black residents mixing.
Speaker 1: Richard was white, Mildred part black, part Native American. The
Speaker 1: two married in nineteen fifty eight, traveling to Washington, d c.
Speaker 1: Where they could legally wed. After they took their bows,
Speaker 1: the Lovings went home to Virginia. Mr Leving, tell me
Speaker 1: what happened after you got married and when did you
Speaker 1: first get into trouble with the law. Um, We've been
Speaker 1: married on second day of June, and the police came
Speaker 1: after us the fourteenth of July. We married a month.
Speaker 1: In a few days, the sheriff of Caroline County and
Speaker 1: his deputies burst into the Loving's house in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night, arresting the couple in their bedroom. Mrs Loving.
Speaker 1: What has been the worst part about all this for you? Well,
Speaker 1: I guess the worst thing that was in the middle
Speaker 1: time in jail. That's the worst thing. The two were
Speaker 1: sentenced to a year in prison, but the sentences were
Speaker 1: suspended on the condition that they leave Virginia and not
Speaker 1: returned together for twenty five years. The Lovings began raising
Speaker 1: their family in Washington, d c. But after several years,
Speaker 1: Mildred had had enough. She wanted to live in Virginia
Speaker 1: with her husband and their children and without fear. The
Speaker 1: A c. L U took the Lovings case and began
Speaker 1: a legal battle that would go all the way to
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court in nine sixty seven. You couldn't ask
Speaker 1: for a better case, the Lovings. You know, this is
Speaker 1: like something out of a movie, right, the Lovings. In
Speaker 1: June of that year, the Court decided in the Loving's favor,
Speaker 1: a unanimous decision ruling that the bands on interracial marriage,
Speaker 1: which still existed in sixteen states, were unconstitutional. These are
Speaker 1: not people who would want to be public figures. But
Speaker 1: it was their deep love for each other and just
Speaker 1: wanting the right to live in the community they love
Speaker 1: with the person they love that made them persevere, and
Speaker 1: only three months later Peggy Rusk and Guy Smith would
Speaker 1: walk down the aisle and onto a magazine cover the
Speaker 1: Loving versus Virginia case. Were you following that at all?
Speaker 1: Were you even aware of it? Vaguely? So you didn't
Speaker 1: think this thing that's happening kind of applies to me.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't have changed your mind. We were going to
Speaker 1: get married regardless. As their wedding day approached, Peggy Ruskin
Speaker 1: Guy Smith had managed to stay under the radar even
Speaker 1: as the country was debating the propriety and legality of
Speaker 1: interracial marriage, a blessed privacy which lasted almost till the
Speaker 1: moment they walked out of the Stanford University chapel as
Speaker 1: man and wife. On September one, Peggy Ruskin Guy Smith
Speaker 1: were married. Newsreels show the couple emerging from the chapel
Speaker 1: at Stanford with smiles on their faces. I think some
Speaker 1: of the press coverage said that no one seemed less
Speaker 1: anxious than you and Guy, that you were utterly at ease,
Speaker 1: were completely but still your eighteen You're walking out of
Speaker 1: a chapel and there is a phalanx of press there.
Speaker 1: Did that set you back on your heels a little bit,
Speaker 1: you just want with it. The wedding took place in
Speaker 1: front of about sixty guests, including the bride and groom's parents,
Speaker 1: but several of Dean Rusk's Georgia relatives refused to attend.
Speaker 1: Was their disapproval from some members of the family. I'm
Speaker 1: sure Papa told don't ever show up at a family
Speaker 1: union again. That's a pretty clear message if the condemnation
Speaker 1: of his relatives bothered him. Dean Rusk was not one
Speaker 1: to share the secretary please, thank you. But according to Peggy,
Speaker 1: her father was concerned that his daughter's marriage might create
Speaker 1: problems for President Johnson by risking crucial support from Southerners
Speaker 1: in Congress, and so, she says, he made a dramatic
Speaker 1: proposal of his own to the commander in chief. My
Speaker 1: father went to President Johnson before we got married and
Speaker 1: offered his resignation, and Johnson said, forget it. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't buy the Johnson at all. Did you know
Speaker 1: that your father had done that not till afterwards. And
Speaker 1: what did you think when you heard that? It's like Pop, too,
Speaker 1: serve the man he's supposed to be serving, and be
Speaker 1: honest with him about all things. So it was very
Speaker 1: much in character. This was a very joyous wedding. There
Speaker 1: was no gloom. And I would go further and say
Speaker 1: that this maybe a stride in the direction that we
Speaker 1: all need to be taking with it's very difficult business
Speaker 1: of race relations and this area in particular. That's Reverend
Speaker 1: be Davy Napier, the dean of the Stanford Chapel, who
Speaker 1: officiated Peggy and Guy's wedding, talking to CBS News, and
Speaker 1: he was right. There was a lot of joy, but
Speaker 1: there was also a lot of hate. I showed up
Speaker 1: at Stanford on Monday, Monday after we got married. They
Speaker 1: were huge, big male sacks of mail, you know, the
Speaker 1: big canvas sacks full of mail. We'd sit on the
Speaker 1: floor and we'd open letters, and you know, it was
Speaker 1: pretty easy to tell which were positive, which are negative?
Speaker 1: What was the ratio about about seventy five negative? And
Speaker 1: the negatives were usually really thick and full of Bible
Speaker 1: versus verses and stuff like that. Did any of the
Speaker 1: nasty e Maale scare you really? Did they include threats? Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you did you report any of those letters? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Peggy and Guy took it all in stride. The bad
Speaker 1: with the good, and perhaps the most surprising moment of all,
Speaker 1: a week after the wedding, they realized they were on
Speaker 1: the cover of Time magazine. Time magazine was a big
Speaker 1: deal back then. You're on the cover of it. Did
Speaker 1: you know you were going to be on the covered floor?
Speaker 1: So this hit news stands and you went, that's me
Speaker 1: and my husband remembering The Godfather when they're walking down
Speaker 1: the street and they see the headline if what's his name?
Speaker 1: The men guy getting shot? Right? And they stopped and
Speaker 1: go back and look like that. That was us with
Speaker 1: that magazine. We had no idea and we're walking down
Speaker 1: the street and all of a sudden, please see a
Speaker 1: news stand? As you're kidding me? Can I just tell
Speaker 1: you by the way I held my breath waiting for
Speaker 1: which scene in The Godfather you were going to site?
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, it wasn't the Horsehead. No, no, no. Did
Speaker 1: you immediately buy a copy and read a copy? We
Speaker 1: probably bought ten. They had captured the public's attention so
Speaker 1: much so that when a major motion picture about interracial
Speaker 1: marriage premiered a few months later, the film would get
Speaker 1: an unexpected boost of publicity thanks to the extensive coverage
Speaker 1: of Peggy and Guy's nuptials. As writer Mark Harris notes
Speaker 1: in his book Pictures at a Revolution, the wedding quote
Speaker 1: brought the subject of interracial marriage to the forefront of
Speaker 1: the national conversation about race, or, as it was bluntly
Speaker 1: put by New York Post critic Archer Winston, the Dean
Speaker 1: Rusk family appears to have fronted for this very film.
Speaker 1: God that film Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, with a
Speaker 1: star studded cast of Spencer Tracy in his final movie role,
Speaker 1: Katherine Hepburn, and Sidney Poitier, along with Hepburn's niece Katherine Houghton.
Speaker 1: Guess Who's Coming to Dinner was the story of a white,
Speaker 1: liberal San Francisco couple forced to confront their own prejudices
Speaker 1: when their daughter comes home with the black man she
Speaker 1: intends to marry. And it never occurred to me that
Speaker 1: I might fall in love with a Negro. But I did.
Speaker 1: And nothing in the world is going to change that.
Speaker 1: Even if you had any objections, I wouldn't let him go. Now,
Speaker 1: if you are the governor of Alabama. Guess Who's Coming
Speaker 1: to Dinner was filmed before the Loving Versus Virginia decision
Speaker 1: came down, hence some of the references that had already
Speaker 1: fallen out of date. Have you thought what people would
Speaker 1: say about you? Why in sixteen and seventeen states you
Speaker 1: would be breaking the law, You'd be criminals, and say
Speaker 1: they changed the law. That don't change the way people
Speaker 1: feel about this thing. The movie ends with a stirring
Speaker 1: speech by Spencer Tracy. It might seem a little hokey today,
Speaker 1: but it's still a powerful moment, especially given it was
Speaker 1: Tracy's last moment on screen. He would die just seventeen
Speaker 1: days after filming. I'm sure you know what you're up against.
Speaker 1: There will be a hundred million people right here in
Speaker 1: this country will be shocked and offended and appalled at
Speaker 1: the two of you, And the two of you will
Speaker 1: just have to ride that out, maybe every day for
Speaker 1: the rest of your lives. You can try to ignore
Speaker 1: those people. Are you gonna feel sorry for them and
Speaker 1: for their prejudices and their bigotry and their blind hatreds
Speaker 1: and stupid fears. But we're necessary. You'll just have to
Speaker 1: cling tight to each other and say, screw all those people,
Speaker 1: Guess who's coming to dinner. It was a big hit
Speaker 1: with audiences. In a little over a year, it was
Speaker 1: on varieties list of all time box office winners in
Speaker 1: the company have gone with the Wind and the Sound
Speaker 1: of Music. The movie was an Awards darling as well,
Speaker 1: getting nominated for ten Oscars, including Best Picture and winning
Speaker 1: a Major Acting Award coincidentally presented by Sydney Poitier. The
Speaker 1: winner is Katherine Hepburn and guest Who's Brother. Which is
Speaker 1: not to say everyone loved it. Life magazine's film critic
Speaker 1: would call the movie an inescapably sentimental occasion. Another person
Speaker 1: who wasn't a fan, Peggy Rusk, I saw the movie.
Speaker 1: I didn't relate to it. I thought they made too
Speaker 1: big a deal about the race. That wasn't how we
Speaker 1: felt at all. That was actually kind of bored. There
Speaker 1: are some great performances that I'm a When Guy was
Speaker 1: deployed as a helicopter pilot to Vietnam after their wedding,
Speaker 1: he and Peggy wrote to each other every single day,
Speaker 1: even after his return. If he was away for a
Speaker 1: few days, they would write each other. The letters are
Speaker 1: heartfelt and tender. I love you with all my heart
Speaker 1: and consider myself the happiest and luckiest girl in the world. So, Darling,
Speaker 1: I guess that's why I don't fall apart when you
Speaker 1: have to be away. It's because you are so much
Speaker 1: a part of my soul that even when you are
Speaker 1: three thousand miles away, I still feel like you are
Speaker 1: within me. Take care of lover, and don't work too hard.
Speaker 1: I love you very very much and can't wait to
Speaker 1: be in your arms again. I love Peggy. Guy and
Speaker 1: Peggy had a daughter, two grandchildren, and it seems a
Speaker 1: very happy life. The couple had been married for nearly
Speaker 1: forty five years when Guy died in at age sixty seven.
Speaker 1: At the end, he was suffering from dementia. Then he
Speaker 1: got to the point where he um really wouldn't recognize
Speaker 1: or too much of anything. But I was the one
Speaker 1: person he still recognized. He he never stopped recognizing. He
Speaker 1: never stopped recognizing me. Was was he able to speak
Speaker 1: a little bit? And his last words, because he died
Speaker 1: at home in bed, I was holding him, and his
Speaker 1: last conscious words were to apologize for leaving me alone.
Speaker 1: So Peggy Rusk and Guy Smith became a part of
Speaker 1: our cultural history because of what people saw of their
Speaker 1: marriage from the outside. Two people with different skin colors.
Speaker 1: But ultimately this was a love story, this story which
Speaker 1: a lot of people would use the word hard to
Speaker 1: describe what that must have been hard that part, you know,
Speaker 1: it must have been difficult, and you're telling of it.
Speaker 1: It was just so easy. It was easy. It doesn't
Speaker 1: need to be hard, is that to love? You know?
Speaker 1: If the love is there and if it's real, it's
Speaker 1: all that matters, and it's really powerful, and people just
Speaker 1: need to stop more in the mouths other stuff and
Speaker 1: just it's been a lot more time loving. It's not
Speaker 1: that hard and it's well worth it. A final note,
Speaker 1: Peggy told me that if her wedding happened today, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a big story at all, and she's probably right.
Speaker 1: Remember earlier I mentioned that in the late fifties only
Speaker 1: four percent of Americans approved of interracial marriage, as that
Speaker 1: number had grown to I certainly hope you enjoyed this mobituary.
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Speaker 1: This episode of Mobituaries was produced by Zoe Marcus and
Speaker 1: Aaron Shrank. Our team of producers also includes Wilcome Martinez,
Speaker 1: Cacceto and me Morocca. It was edited by Moral Walls
Speaker 1: and engineered by Josh Hahn, with fact checking by Naomi Barr.
Speaker 1: Our production company is Neon Hum Media. Our archival producer
Speaker 1: is Jamie Benson. Our theme music is written by Daniel Hart.
Speaker 1: Indispensable support from Craig Swaggler, Dustin Gervei, Alan Pang, Reggie
Speaker 1: Basil and everyone at CBS News Radio. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: a Lilia Bundle's, Young Kim Mary Gardner, Mcgeehey, Zebulon Muletski
Speaker 1: and Alberto Robina. Mobituary's senior producer is the Unconquerable Aaron
Speaker 1: Shrank and Shrank. Executive producers for the series include Steve raiz,
Speaker 1: He's and Morocca. Mobituaries was created by Yours Truly and
Speaker 1: as always on dying gratitude to Rand Morrison and John
Speaker 1: carp for helping breathe life into mobituaries,