1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: You can get a sense of what the world was 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: like in nine by looking at the covers of Time 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: magazine from that year. There's Chairman Mao, the communist leader 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: of the People's Republic of China whose Cultural revolution had 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: plunged his country into chaos. General William Westmoreland, commander of 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: US forces in Vietnam, confident of victory in a war 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: that was becoming more and more unpopular. Sandy Dennis, whose 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: performance and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolfe won her an oscar? 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: And newlyweds Margaret Rusk and Guy Smith. Okay, I'm pretty 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: sure you don't recognize those names. Margaret, better known as Peggy, 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: was the daughter of then Secretary of State Dean Rusk, 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: Guy Smith, her longtime love. So why were they on 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: the September seven cover of Time? For the simple reason 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: that Peggy was white and Guy was black. The headline 15 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: reads Mr. And Mrs Guy Smith an interracial marriage. Margaret 16 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Rusk, only daughter of Secretary of State Dean Rusk, 17 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: becomes the wife of Air Force Reserve Lieutenant Guy Gibson Smith, 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: a Negro. Nineteen sixty seven, it turned out was a 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: very big year for interracial marriage. In all the field 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: of race relations, probably nothing is more sensitive than the 21 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: issue of inter marriage. That June, in the landmark ruling 22 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: of Loving versus Virginia, the Supreme Court struck down state 23 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: laws banning it in the United States. Mildred and Richard 24 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: Loving had actually gone to jail after getting married. We 25 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: were in it because we got married, We loved each 26 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: other and gotten married. The Court's decision was unanimous, but 27 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: only a fifth of Americans actually approved of interracial marriage, 28 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: an attitude that Hollywood was about to address with a 29 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: major motion picture. Three Academy Award winners and a bright 30 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: young newcomer combine their talents in a love story of today. 31 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: In December, the movie Guests Who's Coming to Dinner starred 32 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: Sydney Pottier as a black doctor planning to marry a 33 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: white woman and delivering the news to his future in 34 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: laws played by Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy Mrs Drayton. 35 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: I'm medically qualified, so I hope you wouldn't think it presumptous. 36 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: If I say you want to sit down before you 37 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: fall down, he thinks she's going to faint because he's 38 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: a Negro. Well I don't think I'm going to fade 39 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: in the middle of all of this, a very private 40 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: couple thrust into the spotlight. Ms. Rusk and Mr Smith 41 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: had obviously thought long and hard about the consequences of 42 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: a mixed marriage, but Peggy Rusk Smith says she and 43 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: her husband had only one focus as they walked down 44 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: the aisle. We didn't get married for any reason. In 45 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: the fact that we left it to other. We weren't 46 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: trying to prove anything, change anything. Sorry to mean some 47 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: more in the truth of it. But the story of 48 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: her and her late husband is anything but boring. It 49 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: involves romance in turbulent times, presidents, movie stars, and horses. 50 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: We'll hear that story and along the way, look back 51 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: at the surprising history of interracial relationships in the United States. 52 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: From CBS Sunday Morning and I Heart I'm Morocca and 53 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: this is Mobituaries, this moment Mr and Mrs Smith and 54 00:03:48,000 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: the year that changed marriage in America. You know, I'll 55 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: tell you a funny story about the dress. I've had 56 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: it cleaned and boxed and sealed, so it's still in 57 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: good shape from when I first and I wore it. 58 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: So I thought, well, maybe I should give it to 59 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: a thrift shop. And well, whoever I was speaking to, said, 60 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: why don't you see if the Smithsonian wants it? And 61 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: I said, oh, please, But to make them happy, I 62 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: called him into my shock. The Smithsonian does want it, Peggy. 63 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: Of course they wanted. This was a big deal. I'm 64 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: going to give it to you straight. Peggy Rusk is 65 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: not the type of person I'm used to interviewing. She's 66 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: the opposite of a hype artist. But don't be fooled. 67 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: Her story was remarkable for its time. So let's go 68 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: back to when Peggy was eleven and her father became 69 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: Secretary of State under President John F. Kennedy. Why did 70 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: he accept the job because he was asked. The President 71 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: asked him, and he believed, if the President asked you 72 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: to do something, you do it to serve your country. Yes, 73 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: he didn't want to, but he was asked. The Rusk 74 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: family quickly transitioned from a quiet life in Scarsdale, New York, 75 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: to a busy life of politics and diplomacy in Washington, 76 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: d C. As the daughter of America's top diplomat. Peggy 77 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: accompanied her mother to receptions at various embassies. So I 78 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: got used to seeing people from all of the world, 79 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: all different nationalities and ethnicities and different language, different dress, 80 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: difference with normal To me, it was an exciting but 81 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: also kind of a lonely time. My parents were gone 82 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: all the time. It was very rare for them to 83 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: be home. She threw herself into one of her early loves, 84 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: horseback riding at Washington's Rock Creek Park, and it was there, 85 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: at age fourteen, that she found another love, Guy Smith, 86 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: a writing instructor at the Stables. Guy had grown up 87 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: in Washington, the only child of an analyst working at 88 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: the Pentagon and a teacher. And what was it about him? 89 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: Just from his appearance that immediately made you go, WHOA, 90 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: He's cute, what can I say? And very sweet, a 91 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: gentleman and friendly open A few years older, five years older, 92 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: five years older. The age difference didn't seem to face Peggy. 93 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: She emphasizes that their relationship began very much as a friendship. 94 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: In fact, she saw a number of similarities between Guy's 95 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: family and her own, as mother and father were wonderful, 96 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: wonderful people, very smart, um well educated. Their house was 97 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: full of books and full of classical music. My father 98 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: and Guy's father were like book heads. Guy's parents had 99 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: sent him to the progressive Georgetown Day School, integrated at 100 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: its founding in when d c's public schools were still segregated. 101 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: Guy would go on to attend Georgetown University. But Peggy 102 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: also acknowledges how race made their experiences very different. Guy 103 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: had to travel a good distance from his predominantly black 104 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: neighborhood of Ladroit Park just to get to the stables 105 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: each day. It's it's sad because as our home in 106 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: Spring Valley was appreciating, their home where they lived on 107 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: the other sided, city was depreciating, and they couldn't just 108 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: live anywhere. They couldn't buy anywhere, and then probably places 109 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't rent to them. To another difference between the two 110 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: where they stood politically well. Guy was a conservative, he 111 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: voted for gold Water. Guy was a conservative Republican right 112 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: and I was a liberal Democrat. But back then politics 113 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: did not color your life the way for some people now. 114 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: Things would eventually progress between the two. At where Else 115 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: a horse show, the show had a pair's event where 116 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: two writers would compete together, and Guy had come at 117 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: the show grants and asked me if I would pair 118 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: with him, Yeah, that must have been exciting. It was exciting. 119 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: I was like, yes, sure, But when guy suddenly had 120 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: to pair with another girl in the competition, Peggy was 121 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: crushed and I left the show grants and started writing, 122 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: this is really a young mind at work. I was 123 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: going to ride until he got dark. Have them all 124 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: worried about what happened, especially him, worry about what had 125 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: happened to me. Yes, you know, so this is just 126 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: my payback. You would go missing, I would go missing, yes, 127 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: and he would feel guilty. Yes, exactly. It was a 128 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: great plan, but unfortunately nobody seemed to realize Peggy was missing. 129 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: So I decided, okay, it's time to go back to 130 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: the barn. Right. It was totally dark, but no one 131 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: was there. I thought, what, they've all come home and 132 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: not even noticed that I wasn't back. They were a 133 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: horse and they all left, and nobody gives um. You 134 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: know what. I took the horse down, put him in 135 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: the stall, and was brushing him with the tears rolling 136 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: down my face. I can see it, yes, feeling completely 137 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: unloved by every soul. When who should appear? So I'm 138 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: in the corner stall and I hear footsteps down, coming 139 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: down the cement alway, and you know I'm going to 140 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: like this, trying to clean my face, wiping your tears. 141 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: I see that you've been crying, right, And he gets 142 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: to the edge of the and he said, would you 143 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: like a ride home? Sure? You know this suddenly has 144 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: gotten great? Yes? Really great? Even better. On the way home, 145 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: he invited me to go to the or showed dinner 146 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: banquet with him. Did you recognize that he was asking 147 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: as he was asking you on a date. Yes, well, 148 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: to go to the banquet, okay, yes, But before the 149 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: two would set out on their date, Guy felt it 150 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: was important to get permission from Peggy's mother. Was it 151 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: just that he was very formal? I think he was 152 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: very polite and well raised. But I also think he 153 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: might have been smart enough to realize that if he 154 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: showed himself in person to my mother, if there was 155 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: an issue with the race, she could just say no, 156 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: she can't go, and the race is she wouldn't come 157 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: up this way. There would be no surprises. Your mother 158 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: would know that she was saying, asked to you going 159 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: to a banquet with a black man. I thought it 160 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: was brilliant in retrospect. Now, remember It's ninety three, the 161 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: year before the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four. 162 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: When former President Harry Truman, the man who had signed 163 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: the executive Order integrating the armed forces, was asked by 164 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: reporters about his thoughts and intermarriage, he replied that he 165 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: didn't believe in it, so it wouldn't have been shocking 166 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: if Peggy's parents took issue with her daughter dating an 167 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: African American. Was Guy's race ever discussed by you and 168 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: your parents? It must have been at some point. Never. 169 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: Peggy's parents, she says, were different, particularly her dad, which 170 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: is kind of surprising. Dean Rusk was a sub learned 171 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: Democrat from Cherokee County, Georgia, the grandson of Confederate soldiers. 172 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: As a young boy, he delivered groceries to white families 173 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: and the black families who lived literally on the other 174 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: side of the tracks. When he would deliver to their 175 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: black families, um, everybody would be sitting outside on the 176 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: steps because it was hot, and Pop said. He would 177 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: sit on the steps and listen to them talk and 178 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: realized that what they said was completely different than what 179 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: black people would say when they were around white people. 180 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: Looking back, russ would remember that he quote heard their 181 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: anger and learned of their hopes, and even at age eight, quote, 182 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: I could sense the unfairness of it all. As he 183 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: grew up, he quietly took a stand against racial intolerance. 184 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: In two while serving in the War Department's Military Intelligence 185 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: off us, he was meeting with Ralph Bunch, a young 186 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: analyst who would go on to become a civil rights leader, 187 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: a diplomat, and the first African American to win the 188 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize. It was lunchtime and Pap said, let's 189 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: go the captain he gets lunch and Mr. Bunch said, Dan, 190 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: you know I can't go eat there. And Pap said, oh, yeah, 191 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: we'll see about that. It just went and from that 192 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: day on it's disagregated. Now, as Secretary of State, Dean 193 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: Rusk's unwavering support of American involvement in Vietnam is a 194 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: permanent part of his legacy. It's in the first line 195 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: of his New York Times, Oh Bit, Rusk was on 196 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: the wrong side of history on Vietnam, But what's been 197 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: forgotten is his equally unstinting support of civil rights. It 198 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: wasn't just a moral issue for him, It was also 199 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: a foreign policy concern. He believed legalized segregation would keep 200 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: the US from winning the Cold War. And this was 201 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: the time when the African nations were being built, and 202 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: so there are a lot of new African diplomats in Washington, 203 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: But the capital of the Free World welcomed these dignitaries 204 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: with less than open arms. In the early nineteen sixties, 205 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: d C remained largely segregated, if not legally, then in practice. 206 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: Black diplomats were living and working there, yet often unable 207 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: to find housing or be served in many restaurants. Again, 208 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: these were diplomats. A Washington Post article from the time 209 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: notes that d C was becoming a hardship post for 210 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: these emissaries. The situation outside the city limits was even 211 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: worse for diplomats traveling by car between the nation's capital 212 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: and the United Nations in New York City. The only 213 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: route was a on US Highway forty, which passed for 214 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: a stretch through Maryland, a state where businesses were still 215 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: legally permitted to segregate customers or even refused to serve. 216 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: African diplomats found themselves ejected from restaurants or unable to 217 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: use the bathroom. In nineteen sixty one, the ambassador from 218 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: the newly formed country of Chad was refused service as 219 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: he tried to get a cup of coffee in a 220 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: Maryland diner. The Governor of Maryland apologized after the White 221 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: House and Attorney General Robert Kennedy interceded on a personal note. 222 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: I find this little known chapter of history particularly disturbing. 223 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: I grew up in the nineteen seventies in the Maryland 224 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: suburbs outside d C. The sauntering drive down Massachusetts Avenue, 225 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: also known as Embassy Row towards downtown is something I remember, 226 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: fondly passing one ornate embassy after another, ring to memorize 227 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: the flags outside each one. The people who worked there 228 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: were their country's representatives to America. I had no idea 229 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: of what black African diplomats were subjected to. Only a 230 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: decade earlier. The troubling and embarrassing situation was summed up 231 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: in a powerful speech given by former CBS news anchor 232 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: Edward R. Murrow back in May of n Murrow had 233 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: recently become Director of the United States Information Agency, and 234 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: he delivered a stark warning. It is not only that 235 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: these people are humans like the rest of us, but 236 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: that they are leaders of the nations whose friendship this 237 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: land deems vital. We would have them join our company 238 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: of honorable men and defending against him, Coachman, our dedication 239 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: to dignity and freedom, but it is a dignity to 240 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: which we were not fully admit them. And in a 241 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: nod cold war tensions, Murrow noted, and let us remember 242 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: this is not something that communists did to us. We 243 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: do it ourselves in our own capital. Is it possible 244 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: that we concern ourselves too much with outer space and 245 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: fireplaces and too little with inner space and nearer places. 246 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: Rusk and the State Department knew that these discriminatory actions 247 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: were damaging America's reputation overseas. It was a huge problem 248 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: for him a Secretary State. I just think it showed 249 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: the United States to behavo critical and not willing to 250 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: live up to its own constitution. In Pilla, France, throwing 251 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: his support behind the proposed Civil Rights Act, Dean Rusk 252 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: testified in a Senate hearing in July of nine three, 253 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: sparring with South Carolina Senator Strong Thermond. Do you favor 254 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: the demonstrations that have been held and would you favor 255 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: demonstrations in the future. If the civil rights builders not 256 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: pays various types of demonstration, I would not wish to 257 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: make a blanket statement about all those that I have 258 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: known about what I would say this, sir, if I 259 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: were denied what our Nego citizens denied, I would demonstrate. Meanwhile, 260 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: his daughter's boyfriend was experiencing discrimination firsthand. We were stopped 261 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: at times by the police in d C. In d 262 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: C and they would make God get out, make us 263 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: both get out, and they would take forever searching the car, 264 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: looking for a reason to arrest him or define him, 265 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: or do whatever. And I could see Guy being having 266 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: to hold his temper. And it was an uncomfortable time. 267 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: Were you ever tempted to say I'm the daughter of 268 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: the Secretary of State? Because that would have been I 269 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: kept my mouth set, okay um, But it was not comfortable. 270 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: It made guy angry, was it? He? Was it humiliating? 271 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: I know it made him angry because I could see 272 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: it in his eyes. I don't know if humiliating the 273 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: right word. I think people of color back then, when 274 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: they were unjustly treated, we're more angry than humiliated in 275 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: spite of the issues they faced. Peggy also acknowledges the 276 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: guy's physical appearance was likely a factor in some people 277 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: being more accepting of the relationship. I'm sure that it 278 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: made it easier in ways that he was light skinned. 279 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: After dating for several years, Peggy and Guy decided they 280 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: wanted to get hitched. It was Christmas of nineteen sixty 281 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: six when Peggy, home from her freshman year at Stanford, 282 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: told her parents she would be getting married the following year. 283 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: He was going to be going off to Vietnam and 284 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: I would be eighteen, and um, we didn't ask for 285 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: my parents permission. We just said we're going to get 286 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: married in September, just like that. But they had no 287 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: idea how big a deal this wedding would be, or 288 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: that nineteen seven would prove to be a game changing 289 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: year for interracial marriage. After all, an awful lot of 290 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: people are going to think that we were a very 291 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: shocking pair, Isn't that right? Mrs Straight I know what 292 00:20:48,080 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: you mean. I get that history doesn't move in a 293 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: straight line, but the history of interracial relationships in this 294 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: country really moves in zigs and zags. With a number 295 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: of famous and not so famous names. We're going to 296 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: get to Peggy and Guy's wedding day in a bit, 297 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: but I wanted to go back further in time to 298 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: really explore how we got to. Is this a story 299 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: that begins and ends in Virginia. Yeah, absolutely it does. 300 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: That's Cheryl cash And she's a Georgetown University law professor 301 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: and the author of Loving Interracial Intimacy and the Threat 302 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: to White Supremacy. She says interracial relationships began in the 303 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: earliest years of the Virginia Colony. At the time, she writes, 304 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: there were legal unions between white people and black people 305 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: like Tony Longo. Tony long Ago was a very skilled 306 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: cattleman when he arrived as a kidnapped en slave person. 307 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: By sixtifty two, he owned two acres of land in 308 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: the colony. In the Jamestown Colony, cash And says some 309 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: enslaved black people were able to hire themselves out and 310 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: buy their freedom for a time. They were then able 311 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 1: to vote, bear arms, and marry, which is what Tony 312 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: Longo eventually did, marrying a white englishwoman after obtaining his freedom, 313 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: And he wasn't the only one. There was no prohibition 314 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: against interracial marriage at that time. Were they living their 315 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: lives fairly openly. Do we know, Yes, it was not illegal. 316 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: So this marriage, which was legally sanctioned, underscores that at 317 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: least among the working class people, there wasn't this strict separation. 318 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: And you know, there was actually a lot of interracial cooperation, 319 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: particularly around resistance to masters. Fearful of free black people 320 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: and white indentured servants coming together and rebelling, new laws 321 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: were created to enforce separation, denying black people first the 322 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: right to bear arms, then the right to vote. By 323 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: interracial marriage was illegal in Virginia. Other colonies and eventually 324 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: states would enact similar laws. Still, interracial relationships were happening. Okay, 325 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: quick note, I'm using the word relationship to describe how 326 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: two individuals related to each other, not to imply consent. 327 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: You probably know the story of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings, 328 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: which by most accounts was non consensual. After all, she 329 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: was enslaved by Jefferson at Monticello. But Cheryl cash In 330 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: writes about a relationship between another slaveholding white politician and 331 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: a black woman that she describes differently. I consider myself 332 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: a presidential history buff, but clearly I need to bone 333 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: up on my vice presidential history, because I had no 334 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: idea that Martin Van Buren's vice president, Richard Mentor Johnson, 335 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: had an interracial relationship that you described as sort of 336 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: a common law marriage. Richard Mentor Johnson actually was one 337 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: of the best known politicians of his era, and Johnson 338 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: became the center of national attention during the election of 339 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty six when the public became aware of his 340 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: common law marriage with Julia Chen, a mixed race woman. 341 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: Enslaved by his family, Johnson, from Kentucky had two daughters 342 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: with Chen and publicly recognized them as his own. The 343 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: daughters lived their lives as free women, both marrying white men. 344 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: People were scandalous. What was shocking was that he was 345 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: bringing this out into the open and trying to have 346 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: it legitimated because he genuinely loved this woman. Johnson defended 347 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: his marriage as quote, under the eyes of God. While 348 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: he was serving in Congress, Julia Chinn died. What really 349 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: scandalized people about this man is that he continued to 350 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: take up with black women he enslaved. I guess he 351 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: had a thing about that. Southern newspapers denounced Richard Mentor 352 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: Johnson as the great amalgamationist. As far as I can tell, um, 353 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: the relationship with Julia chen was was a benevolent, voluntary relationship, 354 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: but his subsequent sex with other black women, as far 355 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: as I could tell, was rape. So I would use 356 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: rapist at least for these subsequent relationships. Fast forward to 357 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: the post Civil War North and a figure who still 358 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: looms large today, the great right or abolitionist Frederick Douglas. 359 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: I had no idea that he had married a white woman. 360 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: Never knew this, Really, you didn't know this. Douglas, the 361 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: child of a black mother and white father, was married 362 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: for over forty years to Anna Murray Douglas, a free 363 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: black woman, But in eighteen eighty four, a year and 364 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: a half after Anna's death, he married a white suffragist 365 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: named Helen Pitts in Philadelphia, where interracial marriage was legal. 366 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas emancipated himself not only from slavery, but from 367 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: the social constrictions of race. He was the center of 368 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: a bi racial abolitionist movement that gave some opportunity to 369 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: actually meet someone on equal terms and equal intellectual terms. 370 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: Douglas's marriage caused an uproar, and not just among white people, ball. 371 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: A black Washington, d c. Newspaper called it a national calamity. 372 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: Black reformer and intellectual book or T. Washington wrote his 373 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: own race especially condemned him, and the notion seemed to 374 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: be quite general that he had made the most serious 375 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: mistake of his life. Well, this is what happens. You know, 376 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: You've been centuries teaching people to stay within lines and 377 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: having rules that fortify a color line. It colors the 378 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: practices of people on both sides of the line. In 379 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: a letter to a friend, Douglas defended his marriage, asking 380 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: what business has the world with the color of my wife? 381 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: So ahead of his time? You know, just to say, 382 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: I am going to do what my heart tells me 383 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: to do, and I'm going to exercise every discretion that 384 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: freedom springs, including who I decided to marry in love. 385 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: While Frederick Douglas was able to marry someone of a 386 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: different race in the late eighteen hundreds, that was certainly 387 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: not the case everywhere. The post Civil War era of 388 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: reconstruction had seen the end of some interracial marriage bands, 389 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: but in most cases only briefly. The doors would close 390 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: again towards the end of the nineteenth century, as Jim 391 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: Crow laws went into effect in the South. In nineteen fifteen, 392 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: D W. Griffith's landmark and deeply racist film The Birth 393 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: of a Nation was released. In one of its more 394 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: infamous scenes, an actor in blackface menaces a Southern white 395 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: woman who leaps to her death rather than submit to him. 396 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: This pernicious myth of the black man as a predator 397 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: was being perpetuated cash and says as a way of 398 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: preventing the races from mixing. From the beginning, that was 399 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: a central part of the dogma around race and civil rights. 400 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: You know, the fear that if we give any black freedom, 401 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: your daughter is going to end up having sex with 402 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: the black man. And how enduring and central the political 403 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: debates around race were tied to this question of interracial 404 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: marriage and interracial sex. By the mid twentie century, attitudes 405 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: had calcified, particularly though not exclusively, in the South. In 406 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: the late nineteen fifties, only four percent of Americans approved 407 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: of interracial marriage. Once you put in place an institution 408 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: that's animated by an ideology, here the ideology white supremacy. 409 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: The ideology continues even after the institution slavery ends. Generation 410 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: after generation is conscripted into this social order which says 411 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: you should not cross this line. So those habits continue. 412 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: So it's very hard to disrupt something like that. But 413 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: disruption finally came in nineteen sixty seven thanks to a 414 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: couple named Richard and Mildred Loving. The story that began 415 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: years ago in the farmlands of Caroline County may provide 416 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: the landmark decision on interracial marriage. The two had grown 417 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: up together in Central Point, a small town in Virginia 418 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: with a long history of white and black residents mixing. 419 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: Richard was white, Mildred part black, part Native American. The 420 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: two married in nineteen fifty eight, traveling to Washington, d c. 421 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: Where they could legally wed. After they took their bows, 422 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: the Lovings went home to Virginia. Mr Leving, tell me 423 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: what happened after you got married and when did you 424 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: first get into trouble with the law. Um, We've been 425 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: married on second day of June, and the police came 426 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: after us the fourteenth of July. We married a month. 427 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: In a few days, the sheriff of Caroline County and 428 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: his deputies burst into the Loving's house in the middle 429 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: of the night, arresting the couple in their bedroom. Mrs Loving. 430 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: What has been the worst part about all this for you? Well, 431 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: I guess the worst thing that was in the middle 432 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: time in jail. That's the worst thing. The two were 433 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: sentenced to a year in prison, but the sentences were 434 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: suspended on the condition that they leave Virginia and not 435 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: returned together for twenty five years. The Lovings began raising 436 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: their family in Washington, d c. But after several years, 437 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: Mildred had had enough. She wanted to live in Virginia 438 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: with her husband and their children and without fear. The 439 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: A c. L U took the Lovings case and began 440 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: a legal battle that would go all the way to 441 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court in nine sixty seven. You couldn't ask 442 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: for a better case, the Lovings. You know, this is 443 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: like something out of a movie, right, the Lovings. In 444 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: June of that year, the Court decided in the Loving's favor, 445 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: a unanimous decision ruling that the bands on interracial marriage, 446 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: which still existed in sixteen states, were unconstitutional. These are 447 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: not people who would want to be public figures. But 448 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: it was their deep love for each other and just 449 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: wanting the right to live in the community they love 450 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: with the person they love that made them persevere, and 451 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: only three months later Peggy Rusk and Guy Smith would 452 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: walk down the aisle and onto a magazine cover the 453 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: Loving versus Virginia case. Were you following that at all? 454 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: Were you even aware of it? Vaguely? So you didn't 455 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: think this thing that's happening kind of applies to me. 456 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: They wouldn't have changed your mind. We were going to 457 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: get married regardless. As their wedding day approached, Peggy Ruskin 458 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: Guy Smith had managed to stay under the radar even 459 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: as the country was debating the propriety and legality of 460 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: interracial marriage, a blessed privacy which lasted almost till the 461 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: moment they walked out of the Stanford University chapel as 462 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: man and wife. On September one, Peggy Ruskin Guy Smith 463 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: were married. Newsreels show the couple emerging from the chapel 464 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: at Stanford with smiles on their faces. I think some 465 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: of the press coverage said that no one seemed less 466 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: anxious than you and Guy, that you were utterly at ease, 467 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: were completely but still your eighteen You're walking out of 468 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: a chapel and there is a phalanx of press there. 469 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: Did that set you back on your heels a little bit, 470 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: you just want with it. The wedding took place in 471 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: front of about sixty guests, including the bride and groom's parents, 472 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: but several of Dean Rusk's Georgia relatives refused to attend. 473 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: Was their disapproval from some members of the family. I'm 474 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: sure Papa told don't ever show up at a family 475 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: union again. That's a pretty clear message if the condemnation 476 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: of his relatives bothered him. Dean Rusk was not one 477 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 1: to share the secretary please, thank you. But according to Peggy, 478 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: her father was concerned that his daughter's marriage might create 479 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: problems for President Johnson by risking crucial support from Southerners 480 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: in Congress, and so, she says, he made a dramatic 481 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: proposal of his own to the commander in chief. My 482 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: father went to President Johnson before we got married and 483 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: offered his resignation, and Johnson said, forget it. You know, 484 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: I didn't buy the Johnson at all. Did you know 485 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: that your father had done that not till afterwards. And 486 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: what did you think when you heard that? It's like Pop, too, 487 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: serve the man he's supposed to be serving, and be 488 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: honest with him about all things. So it was very 489 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: much in character. This was a very joyous wedding. There 490 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: was no gloom. And I would go further and say 491 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: that this maybe a stride in the direction that we 492 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: all need to be taking with it's very difficult business 493 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: of race relations and this area in particular. That's Reverend 494 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: be Davy Napier, the dean of the Stanford Chapel, who 495 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: officiated Peggy and Guy's wedding, talking to CBS News, and 496 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: he was right. There was a lot of joy, but 497 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: there was also a lot of hate. I showed up 498 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: at Stanford on Monday, Monday after we got married. They 499 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: were huge, big male sacks of mail, you know, the 500 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: big canvas sacks full of mail. We'd sit on the 501 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: floor and we'd open letters, and you know, it was 502 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: pretty easy to tell which were positive, which are negative? 503 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: What was the ratio about about seventy five negative? And 504 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 1: the negatives were usually really thick and full of Bible 505 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: versus verses and stuff like that. Did any of the 506 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: nasty e Maale scare you really? Did they include threats? Oh? Yeah? 507 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: Did you did you report any of those letters? Yeah? 508 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 1: Peggy and Guy took it all in stride. The bad 509 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: with the good, and perhaps the most surprising moment of all, 510 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: a week after the wedding, they realized they were on 511 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: the cover of Time magazine. Time magazine was a big 512 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: deal back then. You're on the cover of it. Did 513 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: you know you were going to be on the covered floor? 514 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: So this hit news stands and you went, that's me 515 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: and my husband remembering The Godfather when they're walking down 516 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: the street and they see the headline if what's his name? 517 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: The men guy getting shot? Right? And they stopped and 518 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: go back and look like that. That was us with 519 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: that magazine. We had no idea and we're walking down 520 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: the street and all of a sudden, please see a 521 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: news stand? As you're kidding me? Can I just tell 522 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: you by the way I held my breath waiting for 523 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: which scene in The Godfather you were going to site? 524 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: Thank goodness, it wasn't the Horsehead. No, no, no. Did 525 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: you immediately buy a copy and read a copy? We 526 00:37:52,800 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: probably bought ten. They had captured the public's attention so 527 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: much so that when a major motion picture about interracial 528 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: marriage premiered a few months later, the film would get 529 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: an unexpected boost of publicity thanks to the extensive coverage 530 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: of Peggy and Guy's nuptials. As writer Mark Harris notes 531 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 1: in his book Pictures at a Revolution, the wedding quote 532 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: brought the subject of interracial marriage to the forefront of 533 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: the national conversation about race, or, as it was bluntly 534 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,439 Speaker 1: put by New York Post critic Archer Winston, the Dean 535 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: Rusk family appears to have fronted for this very film. 536 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: God that film Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, with a 537 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: star studded cast of Spencer Tracy in his final movie role, 538 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: Katherine Hepburn, and Sidney Poitier, along with Hepburn's niece Katherine Houghton. 539 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: Guess Who's Coming to Dinner was the story of a white, 540 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: liberal San Francisco couple forced to confront their own prejudices 541 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: when their daughter comes home with the black man she 542 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: intends to marry. And it never occurred to me that 543 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: I might fall in love with a Negro. But I did. 544 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: And nothing in the world is going to change that. 545 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: Even if you had any objections, I wouldn't let him go. Now, 546 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: if you are the governor of Alabama. Guess Who's Coming 547 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 1: to Dinner was filmed before the Loving Versus Virginia decision 548 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,280 Speaker 1: came down, hence some of the references that had already 549 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: fallen out of date. Have you thought what people would 550 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: say about you? Why in sixteen and seventeen states you 551 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: would be breaking the law, You'd be criminals, and say 552 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: they changed the law. That don't change the way people 553 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: feel about this thing. The movie ends with a stirring 554 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: speech by Spencer Tracy. It might seem a little hokey today, 555 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: but it's still a powerful moment, especially given it was 556 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: Tracy's last moment on screen. He would die just seventeen 557 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: days after filming. I'm sure you know what you're up against. 558 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: There will be a hundred million people right here in 559 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: this country will be shocked and offended and appalled at 560 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: the two of you, And the two of you will 561 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: just have to ride that out, maybe every day for 562 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: the rest of your lives. You can try to ignore 563 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: those people. Are you gonna feel sorry for them and 564 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:29,280 Speaker 1: for their prejudices and their bigotry and their blind hatreds 565 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: and stupid fears. But we're necessary. You'll just have to 566 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: cling tight to each other and say, screw all those people, 567 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: Guess who's coming to dinner. It was a big hit 568 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: with audiences. In a little over a year, it was 569 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: on varieties list of all time box office winners in 570 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: the company have gone with the Wind and the Sound 571 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: of Music. The movie was an Awards darling as well, 572 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: getting nominated for ten Oscars, including Best Picture and winning 573 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: a Major Acting Award coincidentally presented by Sydney Poitier. The 574 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: winner is Katherine Hepburn and guest Who's Brother. Which is 575 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: not to say everyone loved it. Life magazine's film critic 576 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: would call the movie an inescapably sentimental occasion. Another person 577 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: who wasn't a fan, Peggy Rusk, I saw the movie. 578 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: I didn't relate to it. I thought they made too 579 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: big a deal about the race. That wasn't how we 580 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: felt at all. That was actually kind of bored. There 581 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: are some great performances that I'm a When Guy was 582 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: deployed as a helicopter pilot to Vietnam after their wedding, 583 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: he and Peggy wrote to each other every single day, 584 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: even after his return. If he was away for a 585 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: few days, they would write each other. The letters are 586 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: heartfelt and tender. I love you with all my heart 587 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 1: and consider myself the happiest and luckiest girl in the world. So, Darling, 588 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: I guess that's why I don't fall apart when you 589 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: have to be away. It's because you are so much 590 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: a part of my soul that even when you are 591 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: three thousand miles away, I still feel like you are 592 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: within me. Take care of lover, and don't work too hard. 593 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: I love you very very much and can't wait to 594 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: be in your arms again. I love Peggy. Guy and 595 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: Peggy had a daughter, two grandchildren, and it seems a 596 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,720 Speaker 1: very happy life. The couple had been married for nearly 597 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: forty five years when Guy died in at age sixty seven. 598 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: At the end, he was suffering from dementia. Then he 599 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: got to the point where he um really wouldn't recognize 600 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: or too much of anything. But I was the one 601 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: person he still recognized. He he never stopped recognizing. He 602 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 1: never stopped recognizing me. Was was he able to speak 603 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: a little bit? And his last words, because he died 604 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 1: at home in bed, I was holding him, and his 605 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: last conscious words were to apologize for leaving me alone. 606 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: So Peggy Rusk and Guy Smith became a part of 607 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: our cultural history because of what people saw of their 608 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: marriage from the outside. Two people with different skin colors. 609 00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: But ultimately this was a love story, this story which 610 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people would use the word hard to 611 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: describe what that must have been hard that part, you know, 612 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 1: it must have been difficult, and you're telling of it. 613 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: It was just so easy. It was easy. It doesn't 614 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: need to be hard, is that to love? You know? 615 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: If the love is there and if it's real, it's 616 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: all that matters, and it's really powerful, and people just 617 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 1: need to stop more in the mouths other stuff and 618 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: just it's been a lot more time loving. It's not 619 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: that hard and it's well worth it. A final note, 620 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,360 Speaker 1: Peggy told me that if her wedding happened today, it 621 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a big story at all, and she's probably right. 622 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: Remember earlier I mentioned that in the late fifties only 623 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: four percent of Americans approved of interracial marriage, as that 624 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: number had grown to I certainly hope you enjoyed this mobituary. 625 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,279 Speaker 1: May I ask you to please rate and review our podcast. 626 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: You can also follow Mobituaries on Facebook and Instagram, and 627 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,839 Speaker 1: you can follow me on Twitter at Morocca. Here. All 628 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: new episodes of Mobituaries every Wednesday wherever you get your 629 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: podcasts and check out Mobituaries Great Lives Worth Reliving, the 630 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 1: New York Times best selling book, now available in paperback 631 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: and audiobook. It includes plenty of stories not in the podcast. 632 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: This episode of Mobituaries was produced by Zoe Marcus and 633 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: Aaron Shrank. Our team of producers also includes Wilcome Martinez, 634 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: Cacceto and me Morocca. It was edited by Moral Walls 635 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,760 Speaker 1: and engineered by Josh Hahn, with fact checking by Naomi Barr. 636 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 1: Our production company is Neon Hum Media. Our archival producer 637 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,440 Speaker 1: is Jamie Benson. Our theme music is written by Daniel Hart. 638 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: Indispensable support from Craig Swaggler, Dustin Gervei, Alan Pang, Reggie 639 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: Basil and everyone at CBS News Radio. Special thanks to 640 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 1: a Lilia Bundle's, Young Kim Mary Gardner, Mcgeehey, Zebulon Muletski 641 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: and Alberto Robina. Mobituary's senior producer is the Unconquerable Aaron 642 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,279 Speaker 1: Shrank and Shrank. Executive producers for the series include Steve raiz, 643 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: He's and Morocca. Mobituaries was created by Yours Truly and 644 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,400 Speaker 1: as always on dying gratitude to Rand Morrison and John 645 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: carp for helping breathe life into mobituaries,