Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 2: Done done, Yay, that's messed up?
Speaker 1: An sv podcast. I am Lisa and.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara, And every week we lovingly dissect an episode
Speaker 3: of your favorite program in mind, Law and Order SVU,
Speaker 3: and we talk about the true crime that it's based on.
Speaker 1: And sometimes we have a guest and other times we don't.
Speaker 3: And up top we like to catch up chat and
Speaker 3: make you buy our merch. Lisa, what's going on? How
Speaker 3: has your week been? We have just had the Oscars.
Speaker 3: I know this comes out like a few days after
Speaker 3: the Oscars, but you know, well more than a few days,
Speaker 3: almost a week, almost a week.
Speaker 1: But I like to talk about the Oscars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about the Oscars. You kick it off, babe.
Speaker 2: I had a fun time watching them. I thought they
Speaker 2: were fun.
Speaker 3: I got a seventeen out of twenty three on my ballot,
Speaker 3: So I'm very good at guessing the categories of movies
Speaker 3: that I have never even heard of. So wow, my
Speaker 3: husband always says I have a real gift for that.
Speaker 1: Any upsets, any upsets in the home.
Speaker 3: I mean we watched Oppenheimer like two days before the Oscars,
Speaker 3: and I thought this is a good movie. I didn't
Speaker 3: blow me away like Poor Things did, like I didn't.
Speaker 3: I thought there were better movies. But it won everything
Speaker 3: because it's the kind of movie that, like everyone.
Speaker 1: I feel like likes to vote for. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't watch it. You know, I'm trying to,
Speaker 2: you know, read see what's up. What I feel really
Speaker 2: cool about is I knew so many people at the
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair Oscar party.
Speaker 1: Woh, oh my god.
Speaker 2: Okay, the goal is getting closer and closer. I do
Speaker 2: feel like once you're at that party, you have made it.
Speaker 1: You are it? Are it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And we're so Kate ber Lant was there, Michelle Buteau,
Speaker 2: I mean we're right.
Speaker 1: There generally, Hannah Einbinder, Yeah.
Speaker 2: We're right there. But that's such a cool party. I
Speaker 2: really like Jennifer Lawrence having polka dots. I love PoCA
Speaker 2: dots on her red carpet. Obsessed with Billie Eilish and
Speaker 2: watching her sing made me cry. She is incredible. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, that song is so pretty. I love it
Speaker 2: so much. I love her outfit, I love her makeup,
Speaker 2: I like her eyes, I like everything about her. And
Speaker 2: I just am obsessed. I haven't watched I didn't even
Speaker 2: watch the Ken Song yet. I gotta watch that.
Speaker 1: But and she's from Highland Park, baby. I was telling you.
Speaker 3: We were watching it at a friend's house and there
Speaker 3: were kids, so it was kind of like chaotic. But
Speaker 3: the parents were just kind of like tuning in to
Speaker 3: the awards when they would happen, and then letting the
Speaker 3: kids scream during the commercials. But I was like, Rosie,
Speaker 3: see the girl singing she's from where? She's from Highland Park,
Speaker 3: And she was like, really, so you too can be.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think Billy Eilish comes from money, right,
Speaker 1: she wealthy? I don't know. She loves her parents, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: her whole family's real tight.
Speaker 2: Highland Park has been changing, but she's yeah, but she
Speaker 2: grew up there, so like, who knows.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I have no idea.
Speaker 2: But she loves her parents, you know, But I don't
Speaker 2: know about that. And she was a successful recording artist
Speaker 2: by the time she was seventeen.
Speaker 1: What is she now? Twenty she was younger than seventeen. Crazy.
Speaker 1: What was her big song? Bad Guy? Was that the
Speaker 1: first hit? Yeah? For some reason, I think she was
Speaker 1: like fourteen. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong, but my niece loves her, like she's
Speaker 2: seen her a few times in concert.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I don't know if you've seen the meme, but
Speaker 2: it's like millennial women going to Olivia Rodrigo concerts and
Speaker 2: it's a photo of Jamie Lee Curtis from the movie
Speaker 2: Freaky Friday playing guitar, and it's like, like, I do
Speaker 2: I like Olivia Rodrigo, But I'm like, there's no way
Speaker 2: I'm going to that concert. There's absolutely no way unless
Speaker 2: someone I don't know, I guess. I yeah, I just
Speaker 2: need a little more maturity, I think, but Billy is
Speaker 2: so mature in her vocals, Like I don't know, what
Speaker 2: a beautiful song, What a beautiful song.
Speaker 3: It's such a pretty song. I love it so much,
Speaker 3: so simple, And I knew that one was gonna win.
Speaker 1: I think I was.
Speaker 3: I think everybody was up in the air on who
Speaker 3: was gonna win Best Original Screenplay, And I was happy
Speaker 3: it was American Fiction because I famousfully really liked American
Speaker 3: fiction and told you to watch it.
Speaker 2: It was adapted, but who what was the other one?
Speaker 3: Anatomy of a Fall was original? Oh my god, I
Speaker 3: do love a dog.
Speaker 1: Well, no, you know what I voted for?
Speaker 2: Was?
Speaker 1: I think I voted for Barbie?
Speaker 3: No, Like, it was like something that I was like,
Speaker 3: maybe they'll give this one to Barbie adapted because it
Speaker 3: wasn't gonna win anything else. So that's like I kind
Speaker 3: of that's what I put on my ballot. Was I
Speaker 3: put Barbie?
Speaker 2: No? The thing is, everyone knows how I feel about
Speaker 2: the Barbie movie, but like, in terms of set design
Speaker 2: and production design, I don't know who won, but absolutely
Speaker 2: I cannot imagine it being better than Barbie. That is
Speaker 2: the one thing where it was like Barbie was so
Speaker 2: written off, and I'm like, are we fully denying that
Speaker 2: they built a Malibu dream house?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was poor things which also had like
Speaker 3: amazing set design.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wait, did you see the clip of Emma's stone running
Speaker 2: because she was Have you seen this? No?
Speaker 1: So she I think it was right after she won.
Speaker 2: She's talking to her husband and a friend and you
Speaker 2: can hear her going, you guys can stay out here,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go in.
Speaker 1: And then she turned and.
Speaker 2: She goes, oh my god, and she says her friend
Speaker 2: the friend's name, but it's like her makeup artist won
Speaker 2: the award, and then it's her just running in her
Speaker 2: gown to like support her friend who just want an oscar.
Speaker 2: And it's just like really sweet, cute, funny, amazing. I
Speaker 2: don't know, she can do no wrong to me, Like
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with her. Yeah, I know a lot of
Speaker 2: people wanted Lily Gladstone to win. I did not see
Speaker 2: that movie, but I cannot compare anything. But when I
Speaker 2: saw Poor Things, I went, that's the greatest living actress
Speaker 2: of our generation. Yeah, she's probably our new maryl I
Speaker 2: was blown away by that performance. Yeah, and Lily Gladstone
Speaker 2: was amazing, And I feel like maybe the only reason
Speaker 2: she didn't win is because her screen time is not
Speaker 2: a lot, Like she's actually not no spoilers, but if
Speaker 2: you don't know the story of it, she is being
Speaker 2: poisoned slowly, like throughout the movie, so she is in
Speaker 2: bed for a lot of it, just like sweating and almost.
Speaker 1: Dye, you know, So there's not as much dialogue.
Speaker 3: But she was amazing and I think it would have
Speaker 3: been awesome for her to win as well, but like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they both were. They both were very great, but no,
Speaker 3: you know what, and I'm lying. I didn't put Barbie
Speaker 3: for that. I put Poor Things for Best Adapted because
Speaker 3: I wanted to piss off my husband because he read
Speaker 3: the book and he said the book was better, and
Speaker 3: I was like, I want the screenplay to win for
Speaker 3: Best Adapted, but it didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking at the set design. I mean it
Speaker 1: is amazing.
Speaker 2: I loved Poor Things, but like I did really love
Speaker 2: the way Barbie looked and like how they built stuff.
Speaker 2: But I guess Poor Things was more fantastical and came
Speaker 2: out of nowhere with like minimal real life references.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 3: It's like I am sort of not looking forward to
Speaker 3: like what's going to be replaced by AI in the future.
Speaker 3: Like I love the practical stuff that gets built for
Speaker 3: these movies, and like, I think it's going to be
Speaker 3: so crazy when they're just like, Okay, you're on the
Speaker 3: moon now and it's just AI like making clips or whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, so Julia, our friend, she's watching like Masters of
Speaker 2: the Air or something like that on Apple. She's very
Speaker 2: into World War two and this is about the fighter planes, okay,
Speaker 2: And she said that it was incredible, like this, it
Speaker 2: looks beautiful because it's all these planes and I go,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I wonder how they shot it.
Speaker 1: And she goes, it's not real. It's computers.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot that, Like
Speaker 2: you can make stuff look cool with that, but it
Speaker 2: is they can't crash planes with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, I get it. Well, CGI and AI
Speaker 3: are a little bit different. I think we've been doing
Speaker 3: okay with CGI. That's the word I was looking for. Yeah, CGI. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like CGI, we've been okay with And even some people
Speaker 3: would say CGI is too much Like the movie three
Speaker 3: hundred is like fully done in the green screen, and
Speaker 3: people don't like when that stuff looks kind of faky
Speaker 3: and you can see the CGI and like it's only gonna.
Speaker 2: Get worse with AI. That movie was ahead of its time. Now, sure,
Speaker 2: it's one of my favorites. Oh, I've never seen it.
Speaker 1: I just use it as an example because I feel
Speaker 1: like it's an example of.
Speaker 2: People you've never even seen it. I know I've never
Speaker 2: seen three hundred. I've never seen Oh. I saw in
Speaker 2: the movie theater multiple times. And then for Halloween, me
Speaker 2: and my friend dressed as Spartans and we air brushed
Speaker 2: ourselves fully gold like I was into it.
Speaker 1: Wow, I.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, you saying anything like I don't think you
Speaker 2: thought I would get right up on your grill.
Speaker 3: But oh, is this why you thought we that you
Speaker 3: saw Drew R. Butler behind us at the airport at
Speaker 3: that time? Or did we really see him? Was it
Speaker 3: really hammered? You just thought it was him?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No, no.
Speaker 2: The woman at the clear lost her mind to the
Speaker 2: guy behind me, and I kept looking and I was like,
Speaker 2: that's not what I don't I don't, I can't put
Speaker 2: my finger on it. And then she thought he was
Speaker 2: Liam Neeson and I had to be like, babe, that's
Speaker 2: not Liam Neese.
Speaker 1: Oh babe. But it is.
Speaker 2: So funny. But wait, I think Headley's in it. That's
Speaker 2: her big thing.
Speaker 1: Who oh Lena Hetty, Lena Hetty, Yeah, yeah, did I
Speaker 1: call her Headley? And I don't know, I didn't know
Speaker 1: that was.
Speaker 2: Yeah two thousand and six, Like what kind of you know,
Speaker 2: cutting edge for us? It's like going back and being
Speaker 2: like Jaws. You can tell it's not real. It's like yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: well that's actually what's.
Speaker 1: Been annoying me lately. So Caitlin Clark, it's like really amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean what she's done for women's sports, women's basketball,
Speaker 2: like everything is so incredible to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so beautiful.
Speaker 2: And then of course the comments on Instagram in cell
Speaker 2: vibes like and all these people are like the three
Speaker 2: point shots didn't even exist in the previous record, and
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, that's sport, what are you talking about,
Speaker 2: Like swimsuits have changed, turf has changed, protection rules lines
Speaker 2: like yeah, you cannot invalidate hers and not every other
Speaker 2: sports thing.
Speaker 1: Like that is what technology does with sports.
Speaker 2: And it's like these guys just they cannot They just
Speaker 2: hate women, and.
Speaker 1: Why won't but won't admit it.
Speaker 2: It's like, but your actions are proving it in such
Speaker 2: a clear way to me.
Speaker 3: Like this dead basketball player from the seventies doesn't need
Speaker 3: you standing up for him.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if he's dead. I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying he's way old.
Speaker 2: No, But also other men who have beaten older record,
Speaker 2: like there were just people giving examples like yeah, the
Speaker 2: three point line didn't exist for lots of records that
Speaker 2: have been been built and no one has been upset,
Speaker 2: Like right, it's so annoying. It's stupid to even focus
Speaker 2: on that because it's so much good stuff.
Speaker 1: It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, to sell out, to have like the
Speaker 2: most people watching, to have like male athletes showing up,
Speaker 2: to like, you know, huge stars supporting her, it's really cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes me really happy. And you had a
Speaker 3: big show on the night of the Oscars.
Speaker 2: How'd that go? It's so funny. Yeah, I booked a show.
Speaker 2: It did sell out. Anyone at Union Hall. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for coming. Obsessed with all of you. It
Speaker 2: was amazing. My friends are so funny. I love Union Hall.
Speaker 2: No one really cared about the Oscars. And I've been
Speaker 2: doing a thing where I bring a bucket and people
Speaker 2: write stuff and we all improvise off the buckets and
Speaker 2: it's just like, oh, really a good time.
Speaker 1: I'd fun.
Speaker 2: And then I hung out with your best friend Rachel
Speaker 2: and a few of us till midnight.
Speaker 1: We hung out. She loves saying she does love to hang.
Speaker 2: She's so supportive. I mean to also buy a ticket.
Speaker 2: That's very rare.
Speaker 1: She always buys. I go.
Speaker 3: You know, I think Lisa will put you on the
Speaker 3: list and she always buys.
Speaker 2: Now I told her again, I go, you really don't
Speaker 2: have to continuously buy all of these, like I will
Speaker 2: put you on lists. But it is it is kind.
Speaker 2: That's nice though. I cried last night from pure joy.
Speaker 2: So I was the Cara Klink last night. I bought
Speaker 2: the tickets. I put a group together, I got the
Speaker 2: group chat going. Oh. I was the field trip instructor.
Speaker 2: I got a marvelous group of friends. We went to
Speaker 2: Joe's Pub to watch Larry Owens do a musical theater night.
Speaker 2: Oh right, and this girl Shana and Celeste. Their voices,
Speaker 2: I mean it was one of the like to think
Speaker 2: the voices coming out of them. But it's Larry wrote
Speaker 2: like the blind Side the musical, So that's what a
Speaker 2: lot of it was. And it's so genius. He wrote
Speaker 2: it with Henry Koperski, who did our.
Speaker 1: Oh who does our theme song?
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's a genius composer. But you know, I was sitting,
Speaker 2: we were all in a few tables enjoying the show,
Speaker 2: and my friend turned to me and she goes, this
Speaker 2: is a Monday night in New York, and I just
Speaker 2: fully started crying. I was like, I can't even believe it.
Speaker 2: The talent we're seeing for twenty dollars on a Monday,
Speaker 2: are you? And then I got drunk and then at the.
Speaker 3: Time of my life, and I love Joe's Pub. Joe's
Speaker 3: Pub is just like a great place to see. People say, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm going to become a member. I've decided I'm becoming
Speaker 3: a member. Yeah, I live right here, I'm becoming a member.
Speaker 3: I support the arts. I've only actually been there a
Speaker 3: couple of times, but one of the times I went
Speaker 3: was to see Bridget Everett.
Speaker 1: That was my first time there too, and the tender
Speaker 1: Moments and it was great.
Speaker 2: And I love how the artists can enter and the
Speaker 2: food was good. I gotta, I mean, and I also
Speaker 2: got to I got a mini corn dog on a six.
Speaker 2: I was like dipping a corn dog while watching like
Speaker 2: the most amazing singers I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is it.
Speaker 2: And then we went to a bar Swift named after
Speaker 2: Jonathan Swift. Okay, but you probably loved that. I did
Speaker 2: love it. I was the only one who knew. I
Speaker 2: kept talking about it. I'm like, he's who taught me
Speaker 2: about satire. Junior year of high school, Like, we were
Speaker 2: taught satire by his work and then we had to
Speaker 2: write our own satire. So to me, he's very that's
Speaker 2: very important to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, what did Jonathan Swift write? Did I
Speaker 1: study him in high school?
Speaker 2: All of ours travels? That's the big one. Oh, okay,
Speaker 2: that's a big one. But I just know about this
Speaker 2: essay the bag account. Hopefully I'm not wrong. But I
Speaker 2: kept talking about this essay and everyone's like, shut up,
Speaker 2: no one cares. Get us more vodka. Yeah, dumb bitch,
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was. I just love the I love
Speaker 2: the arts.
Speaker 1: Oh you love the arts. You're a patron of the arts, oscars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to see some movie. Should I see Killers.
Speaker 1: Of the Moon?
Speaker 3: I don't want to, I will be honest. My husband
Speaker 3: just put it on in the room that I was
Speaker 3: in to finish it. So I only watched the last
Speaker 3: hour and a half and I was into it. But
Speaker 3: I think from what I've heard from people that the
Speaker 3: last hour and a half is the best. I just
Speaker 3: can't get on board with these three hour movies. I mean,
Speaker 3: I did watch Oppenheimer, but I was on my phone
Speaker 3: a bunch, like it's just it's too long. Three hours
Speaker 3: these the men need to relax and Michael see Zone
Speaker 3: of Interest this week. I know that's like a real
Speaker 3: kind of a downer movie. But it won for sound design,
Speaker 3: which everybody's everyone I've talked to has said the sound
Speaker 3: design is incredible, So I think I have to go
Speaker 3: see it in the theater.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I watched like a little clip online about the sound. Basically,
Speaker 2: there's all these shots of like he wanted it to
Speaker 2: look like people working in a house, and he wanted
Speaker 2: it to sound like everyone is doing things on their
Speaker 2: own in the house. So because that's how houses are,
Speaker 2: you know, It's not like everyone is silent while you're
Speaker 2: doing one thing. And so there were hidden cameras in
Speaker 2: Mike's in all of the rooms, so the actors did
Speaker 2: not know where the cameras or MIC's were. Ooh, and
Speaker 2: then it would be like action and then everyone would
Speaker 2: just be doing what they do in a house. So
Speaker 2: that's the only thing I know about the sound that's
Speaker 2: like overlap being and unique to that movie. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think the theater is a great idea for that.
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, I went to go see our friend do
Speaker 1: a one man show. Will show. I went to Will's.
Speaker 3: Show, and then Saturday night I went to Jared and
Speaker 3: I did a show called Them's the Rules where the
Speaker 3: man does a set and the woman gets to interrupt
Speaker 3: him whenever they want.
Speaker 1: And it was fun. Did you have fun?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I interrupted his alass, I made fun of him.
Speaker 1: I roasted him. It was great. It was so fun.
Speaker 3: We had a really fun time because the other people
Speaker 3: that were there were not couples, so you could tell
Speaker 3: they were like, is it okay if I interrupt?
Speaker 1: And I was just like, what's up? Cook?
Speaker 3: Like I just was really yelling at him like the
Speaker 3: whole time.
Speaker 1: So we had to win a blast.
Speaker 2: You know what, we are such like elder millennials because
Speaker 2: I've just gotten into saying cook and it is fun,
Speaker 2: but I think it was popular four years.
Speaker 1: Ago, yeah, five to six.
Speaker 2: Just now on stage, I started saying beta cook and
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't even know what that mean.
Speaker 2: I can't believe this is coming out of yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh you know who else was singing?
Speaker 2: Cat Cohen's boyfriend is on stage too, Brian, who has
Speaker 2: an F one podcast. But it was like a shock
Speaker 2: to see him and and he sings. He's an actor
Speaker 2: and he sings. Yeah, but I didn't know he sings.
Speaker 2: I knew he was an actor, but because he's friends
Speaker 2: with Mark Forrestein.
Speaker 3: An actor and a singer who loves f one, I mean,
Speaker 3: people contain multitudes.
Speaker 1: It's so fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we also got to talk about porn. He's like
Speaker 2: a pornhead like me, Like, yeah, it's very rare. You
Speaker 2: get to talk about the names and the girl and
Speaker 2: like they're like their journeys and so it was really
Speaker 2: fun to talk to someone that like we knew all the.
Speaker 1: Same people and like that was kind of exciting.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure this isn't a kind of porn that
Speaker 3: you're into. Maybe it is a no shame, but I
Speaker 3: just heard about cock porn for the first time that
Speaker 3: that's a very popular search term. Now that was twenty
Speaker 3: years ago. But I don't, like, you know, I'm really
Speaker 3: not porny, unfortunately, I've tried.
Speaker 2: It's like it's just not catching with me. No, it's
Speaker 2: not winning any Oscars for sound design. It's beneath you.
Speaker 2: Care's beneath you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm spending my time on. The sound
Speaker 1: design officers.
Speaker 3: Well, we are going to get started in a second,
Speaker 3: but I wanted to mention it's starting today, there is
Speaker 3: going to be a spring sale on the Exactly Right
Speaker 3: store site, So all of our merch is going to
Speaker 3: be fifteen percent off using the code trasure t r
Speaker 3: Y s U r E. I'm sure that's some kind
Speaker 3: of my favorite murder inside joke that I don't know about,
Speaker 3: but that's the code. We'll put it on our stories
Speaker 3: as well, and we'll post about it on our main
Speaker 3: Instagram page. But you'll be able to get fifteen percent
Speaker 3: off of our merch as well as further discounted stuff
Speaker 3: that's in the Last Chance Clear and shop, which includes
Speaker 3: our kick ass fanny pack, the beanie, and.
Speaker 1: The purple sweatshirt.
Speaker 3: So if you've been looking for those but they're like
Speaker 3: out of your budget, they're going to be super marked
Speaker 3: down from March nineteenth to the twenty fifth. So go
Speaker 3: to Thats mess Up Live dot com and you can
Speaker 3: go to our shop link and that takes you right
Speaker 3: to our little store. And also you can also find
Speaker 3: on the link Lee's website that is all Liza's future
Speaker 3: touring dates and she's got a lot of dates on
Speaker 3: the road, babies, so go check her ass out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this weekend, I'll be in Rochester for the first
Speaker 2: time in my life.
Speaker 1: Oh my mom went to college there. Oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm excited.
Speaker 2: And then Nashville, Chicago, Tacoma, Spokane, Spokane, whatever, don't come
Speaker 2: for me, Baltimore, Austin, La Santa Fe, New Orleans, Kansas City. No,
Speaker 2: then it goes too far. I mean, I'm not giving
Speaker 2: you my November dates. But also if you're in the
Speaker 2: area of Springfield, Missouri. I think I have mentioned on
Speaker 2: the podcast one of our friends did pass in December,
Speaker 2: and his dear friends put together a festival and it's
Speaker 2: going to be a comedy festival in the spirit of
Speaker 2: our friend Kennedy to Forest.
Speaker 1: It is not going to be like just tribute.
Speaker 2: So if we want to come see a bunch of
Speaker 2: Chicago comics and other people not from Chicago but his
Speaker 2: friends and stuff. That's April twenty third to April twenty
Speaker 2: eighth and Springfield, Missouri at the Blue Room Comedy Club.
Speaker 2: And you know, I mean, maybe some people will be
Speaker 2: depress but you can come to it.
Speaker 1: You can come to Sorry, it's.
Speaker 3: Some of the greatest comics and they'll all be there
Speaker 3: and you can follow to four fests on Instagram d
Speaker 3: E f O r e f E s T to
Speaker 3: get like the links and the show schedules and stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: But that's gonna be a cool fest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for saying it. I still cannot say the fest.
Speaker 2: Like I know, there's like a wordplay with his name
Speaker 2: and the festival, and I cannot, yeah, figure it out
Speaker 2: and say it out of my mouth. It's like really bad.
Speaker 2: I also realized what I forgot to mention this whole
Speaker 2: time is Traders season finale reunion everything, and so I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna give it any away about Traders and whatever.
Speaker 2: But what is so funny is so they have of
Speaker 2: this reunion and the gamers like Survivor the Challenge, like
Speaker 2: they are used to fucking each other over because it's
Speaker 2: like they're in those types of games and so to
Speaker 2: them it's a game. But all the Bravo people acted
Speaker 2: like it's a Bravo reunion and the gamers couldn't handle it,
Speaker 2: like I'm Jay got screwed over. She blocked them to
Speaker 2: stay the girl. She was like, you blocked us. Immediately
Speaker 2: he goes, yeah, and I'm never gonna speak to you again.
Speaker 2: You guys are giving grifter energy. I was bamboozle And
Speaker 2: then like they asked Phadra about a guy, They're like,
Speaker 2: how do you feel about Dan? She goes, He's a
Speaker 2: piece of shit. And they're like, but you'll forgive him.
Speaker 2: She goes, I will never speak to you again.
Speaker 1: Wait, and didn't Andy Cohen host the Reason? Yes? Yes?
Speaker 1: Why did?
Speaker 2: Why do you think, like Alan Cumming didn't host that? Now,
Speaker 2: Andy's the best in the game. It's like, if you
Speaker 2: could get Andy, why wouldn't you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Alan.
Speaker 2: To me is an actor, a performer, a fashion you know,
Speaker 2: like he's a But Andy is very good at reunions
Speaker 2: and it's so many of the people he knew. But
Speaker 2: it was just so funny, like the Survivor people being like,
Speaker 2: it's a game, and then and.
Speaker 1: The Bravo people are like, this is our lives.
Speaker 2: Yes, even if you have not watched Traders, I would
Speaker 2: say the reunion is just so funny to watch how
Speaker 2: pissed the Bravo people were that got fucked over.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I have literally been the way that I scroll through
Speaker 3: a carousel about Traders memes having not watched one moment
Speaker 3: of the show. I'm like obsessed with like the vibe
Speaker 3: of Traders, but I have not watched any of it.
Speaker 1: Well, it talks about it with your friend Rachel and
Speaker 1: New York. She's oubsessed.
Speaker 2: She's like Kara wants to watch it, but has it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, but the fomo will take over. It'll
Speaker 2: kill her, like she'll have to watch it.
Speaker 3: I know when things hit a fever pitch in the
Speaker 3: zeitgeist for me, that's when I'm like, I gotta watch it.
Speaker 1: Like I went and saw the movie Hereditary. I went
Speaker 1: to go see that.
Speaker 2: I would never see a movie like that, but people
Speaker 2: wouldn't stop fucking talking about it.
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going, you know, so I'm going,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna. I'm getting into Traders. In fact, we just
Speaker 3: we just finished The Bear last night, finally, my husband
Speaker 3: and I season two, and now I'm gonna get into Traders.
Speaker 3: I've got extra time and I heard, by the way,
Speaker 3: I heard we're heading into a Bravo desert, So this
Speaker 3: is my perfect time to get into Traders.
Speaker 2: So how did you feel about the Bear? You know
Speaker 2: how much I loved it? How did you like it?
Speaker 3: I love the Bear? The performances are amazing. Do I
Speaker 3: think it's a comedy, Not really, but I love it
Speaker 3: so much. I think it's such a great show and
Speaker 3: the acting is so good and it looks beautiful, and
Speaker 3: it makes me want to know how a restaurant is run,
Speaker 3: like I want to be in a kid which I
Speaker 3: still don't understand.
Speaker 1: How when a restaurant is full.
Speaker 3: They make all these meals for all these people, Like
Speaker 3: I truly don't understand.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like enough people.
Speaker 2: It's all about the practice, I know, Like it just
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like I don't get it, like I've worked
Speaker 2: in restaurants, but like with you know, two line cooks
Speaker 2: making fried food, like I haven't really worked in a
Speaker 2: fine dining at all. Like it seems like to make
Speaker 2: one of these little moose canolis with with a parmesan
Speaker 2: crisp and a and a pistachio crumble like that that
Speaker 2: would take you twenty five minutes at least to make
Speaker 2: it perfect.
Speaker 1: And people are ordering seventeen at a time, like are
Speaker 1: these orders are firing? Like it's just it's stressful.
Speaker 3: And that final episode of the season, I was like
Speaker 3: about to have a heart attack.
Speaker 1: There was just too many things going wrong at one time?
Speaker 1: And how is that Forks episode?
Speaker 2: Wait, the Taylor Swift, the Forks when he goes when
Speaker 2: Ebon works at the with Olivia Coleman.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so good. Well you didn't even remember it.
Speaker 3: I didn't remember which one you were talking about. I
Speaker 3: was called Forks. Yeah, I forgot that it was called Forks.
Speaker 3: I was like, I forgot the name of it. You
Speaker 3: have to remember, I'm also waiting weeks before watching these episodes, like,
Speaker 3: that's why it's taking me so long.
Speaker 1: No, you also have so many things in your brain.
Speaker 3: I saw that episode you're talking about two months ago.
Speaker 3: But yes, I like I love that one. I like
Speaker 3: the little solitary ones where he goes out. I like
Speaker 3: the Denmark one. I mean, it's so cool.
Speaker 2: At Denmark one. The end of that episode brought me
Speaker 2: to tears. It's just such a beautiful show. And the
Speaker 2: only thing that makes me so livid is Chris Storer,
Speaker 2: the creator director, used to direct comedy specials. I could
Speaker 2: you know if No, not that he would even want
Speaker 2: to work with me, But that dream is I think
Speaker 2: the dream is long gone once you do the Bear.
Speaker 3: Anyway, let's get started. We've got a wild episode for
Speaker 3: you guys today, I.
Speaker 1: Do have to mention the bear. Did you like the romance?
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people didn't like that actress
Speaker 2: mot but like, did you see the scene where they're
Speaker 2: like flirty and they're looking and he actually seems shy
Speaker 2: like before they and it's like I just thought it
Speaker 2: was so romantic and sweet.
Speaker 3: You didn't, Okay, yes I do. I think they're so
Speaker 3: romantic and sweet.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I discovered her through theater camp, so I like think
Speaker 3: she's funny no matter what.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, I like this girl.
Speaker 3: But like a little bit, like after they've been dating
Speaker 3: for a while, I kind of wanted them to like
Speaker 3: talk more normal, and she still seems like she's a
Speaker 3: little bit manic pixie dream girl even when they're just
Speaker 3: having regular convos down the road. So I was kind
Speaker 3: of like, what's going on? But I like their relationship.
Speaker 3: I want I want it to I like it.
Speaker 1: I do like it. I like it.
Speaker 3: She's great, And Jared kept going, I mean, no spoilers,
Speaker 3: the show has been out forever. Please fast forward if
Speaker 3: you don't want to bear spoiler. But Jared's like, who
Speaker 3: would break up with this woman? Who would break up
Speaker 3: with this woman, like he was just like, but I understood.
Speaker 3: I called it early. Actually, I was like, he's going
Speaker 3: to break up with her because she's too much of
Speaker 3: a distraction to his obsession with being the best you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's a doctor, so it's like, how what
Speaker 2: are they going to see each other?
Speaker 1: The schedules are.
Speaker 2: Insane totally, But when he listens to the voicemail, oh God, heartbreaking,
Speaker 2: A wild run.
Speaker 1: I love the bear.
Speaker 3: Check it out and stay tuned for my Trader's recaps
Speaker 3: coming up very soon on this podcast. But let's get started.
Speaker 3: We have a great episode for you guys today.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we are starting with Perverted Justice.
Speaker 1: Good title, good title.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Season sixteen, episode twenty one. Let's see if we're
Speaker 2: gonna get some perverted justice. It sounds like a porno.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but this is a very serious, sad episode
Speaker 2: and yeah, pretty haunting, but something about that title makes
Speaker 2: it seem more exciting and a good time.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we start off at a church with a.
Speaker 2: Decked out cross hanging and engraved in the white marble
Speaker 2: and gold. It says Jehovah is in his holy temple,
Speaker 2: be silent before him. All the earth just in case
Speaker 2: it has important meaning for later. I didn't see anything,
Speaker 2: but maybe some of you Bible thumpers will catch catch
Speaker 2: some meaning.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 2: You know, a man is preaching. He's doing a sermon
Speaker 2: about love and truth. Love bears things, patient and hopeful.
Speaker 2: Love never fails. And then we see of course Samaira
Speaker 2: Wiley and she is crying. She's clutching a photo of
Speaker 2: a young child and a father having a good time.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so she's in the church. It's not good.
Speaker 2: The good time is in the photo. And then it's
Speaker 2: a fast cut to a man holding a bowl talking
Speaker 2: about Noah and welcoming him into a community. What community?
Speaker 2: Where are we? What is happening? Like? How is everyone Catholic?
Speaker 2: But don't worry, they're not. It's not a baptism, it's
Speaker 2: a Unitarian church situation. And we get like expository dialogue
Speaker 2: later to let us know it's Unitarian. So you know,
Speaker 2: he's getting a cool, relaxed, chill religious leader. Who's you know,
Speaker 2: you not that religious? There are some people in the pews.
Speaker 2: I don't know who they are. Tomorrow's there, KREESI. They're
Speaker 2: standing in their Sunday's best. They do look like dorks.
Speaker 2: Benson is wearing a March pink Chanel suit vibe from
Speaker 2: The Simpsons Those Who Know no She mentions truth on
Speaker 2: your sweet lips to Noah and dabs his lips with
Speaker 2: Unitarian water.
Speaker 1: I don't love that.
Speaker 2: We see Rollins is there as well, and they're discussing.
Speaker 2: I can't believe how many times I've said Unitarian, but
Speaker 2: they're talking about it again. She didn't grow up with religion,
Speaker 2: but she wanted to know it at least have something
Speaker 2: to ground him, so that's why she did this.
Speaker 3: I wonder if they do this a little bit because
Speaker 3: also Mrshca Hargate is religious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yeah, of course. But I try to
Speaker 2: avoid that topic.
Speaker 3: Because like Benson has never ever been like wearing a
Speaker 3: cross or talking about God.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's not religious.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I had I have a friend once who
Speaker 2: was like, you know, I have Jewish friends that are
Speaker 2: super chip, like, don't keep kosher, don't really do the holidays,
Speaker 2: don't do anything. And as soon as they have a kid,
Speaker 2: they're chopping the tip of the dick off because of Judea.
Speaker 2: As soon as it's circumcision, it's like we gotta do
Speaker 2: it we're Jewish, and it's like you eat bacon, Like
Speaker 2: why for this? Like why for this giant thing? Are
Speaker 2: you suddenly a you know, part religion? So I think
Speaker 2: that like breaks some people's brains where they're like, I
Speaker 2: fucking hated Catholic school. It was the worst. It was traumatizing.
Speaker 2: I have all this guilt and shame and I'm my kid.
Speaker 2: I'm sending my kids.
Speaker 3: Of course I got a baptize and I can't have
Speaker 3: him hanging out in purgatory like yeah, like your brain
Speaker 3: just breaks in some way or like suddenly you I
Speaker 3: don't know whatever.
Speaker 2: She wanted to ground him. So we're back with Samira
Speaker 2: Wiley and she is stressed. She's walking out and this
Speaker 2: religious leader is in purple gold, black velvet. He greets
Speaker 2: her at the back of the church, glad to see
Speaker 2: her back at services. We learn her name is Michelle.
Speaker 2: She's working her program. It's her ninth step and you
Speaker 2: know she wants to make amends her father. Then I
Speaker 2: finally see the religious leader is Leslie Odom Junior, or
Speaker 2: a resident guy in Glasses. He's in seven episodes as
Speaker 2: this character, and he's like your dad's in jail and
Speaker 2: that is not your fault, and she goes, it is
Speaker 2: I lied to the police. She says it's not enough
Speaker 2: to say sorry. I want justice and wants to reach
Speaker 2: out to Andre Brower Rip. But yeah, his character Bayard
Speaker 2: Alice Bayard Alice Ellis, It's gonna be a rough one
Speaker 2: for me. I'll say that I'm gonna have a tough
Speaker 2: time this episode. So Ellis is someone who helps innocent
Speaker 2: people get out of jail. Andre Bauer is a legend
Speaker 2: that we all love, and I'm sure everyone that knows
Speaker 2: him misses him. They stare at each other all for
Speaker 2: a while, and then we are in prison. So a
Speaker 2: man we can assume as the father is teaching another
Speaker 2: inmate how to read.
Speaker 1: And this in May.
Speaker 2: We actually meet again in the Yates Rudkinne escape episode.
Speaker 2: He's Redkin's like roommate and then a Yates al Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like he's part of the group and is like
Speaker 2: scared of them, but like you know, he sees the
Speaker 2: whole tunnel, but he's not going with those too fucking psychopaths.
Speaker 1: Wow, good catch. I did not notice that guy at all.
Speaker 2: I did?
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: The door opens and the dad is shocked to have
Speaker 2: a visitor, like when they're like visitor, He's like okay,
Speaker 2: Hector like come back and find me and they're like, no,
Speaker 2: it's for you. He's like what the folk and that
Speaker 2: he's even more in shock to see Michelle and he's like,
Speaker 2: why are you here. She introduces Andre to the dad
Speaker 2: and she's like, I told him, daddy, the truth that
Speaker 2: you never raped me. And he breathes deep and they're
Speaker 2: likeas like tears welling up in his eyes. Credits, So
Speaker 2: we opened back up on Benson with Ellis and she
Speaker 2: is showing him photos of Noah on her phone and
Speaker 2: they're at a swanky type of restaurant and you know,
Speaker 2: she's chatting about hopefully the adoption will be official.
Speaker 1: In a month yay.
Speaker 2: So they sit down and Benson's like, Babe, I know
Speaker 2: you didn't invite me to dinner to talk about Noah,
Speaker 2: so let me have it. And he explains that Reverend
Speaker 2: Scott asked him to look into this case and explains
Speaker 2: that Derek was convicted of raping his daughter seventeen years
Speaker 2: ago when she was six years old. She's like, Dan,
Speaker 2: that's a tough case for Project Innocence to get behind.
Speaker 1: Rape of his own child. What are you doing?
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, but the case was mostly made on
Speaker 2: her testimony, and she is now saying that her mother
Speaker 2: pressured her to lie and she wants to recant. She
Speaker 2: tried once to recant before as a teen, but the
Speaker 2: ADA and detective didn't want to reopen the case, and
Speaker 2: that's when she spiraled into drugs and alcohol and is
Speaker 2: now recently sober so a recant part of a twelve
Speaker 2: step program. Benson's like, that's not really reliable. It's not
Speaker 2: a really reliable indicator of the truth. And he's like, no,
Speaker 2: I know. That's why I need your help to investigate.
Speaker 2: It's going to be hard. There's no DNA, there's no forensics,
Speaker 2: there's no corroboration. It's only her testimony. And also the
Speaker 2: medical symptoms were inconclusive. Her mother had her own history
Speaker 2: of substance abuse issues, and she's the one that made
Speaker 2: the initial nine to one one call. She asks if
Speaker 2: he met the father, and he did and says he's
Speaker 2: a top notch prisoner and he found him credible and
Speaker 2: he has maintained his innocence the whole time. And then
Speaker 2: Ellis says, you know, it's hard enough saying someone what
Speaker 2: that was convicted of a crime, didn't commit it. But
Speaker 2: he goes it's harder even to convince that the crime
Speaker 2: never took place. So Benson's like, great, and you thought
Speaker 2: of me and she smirks. He smiles, You know whatever,
Speaker 2: It's cute. Back at the office, Tomorrow's pissed. He's like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck now we got to invest in almost
Speaker 2: twenty year incest. Drape tell him to do the work.
Speaker 2: Christy and Rollins are there too, and Creasey's like, wow,
Speaker 2: ellis a legend. I'll do anything for him. So Tomorrow
Speaker 2: turns to Benson goes, no, I know he's your friend,
Speaker 2: but do we really need to work this fucking closed case.
Speaker 2: Benson breaks it down and goes, yeah, we're doing it. Like,
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up. She goes, this isn't about friendship.
Speaker 2: SVU didn't even handle this case. Some local precinct did
Speaker 2: and they really hated Derek Thompson. And when he finally
Speaker 2: got a lawyer, it was some rental lawyer who could
Speaker 2: barely pay for transcript copies.
Speaker 1: We have to look into this. That's our job.
Speaker 2: Benson sits on Rollin's desk, so that's kind of hot
Speaker 2: and casual and starts reading out the names of the
Speaker 2: old cops from the case and she doesn't know any
Speaker 2: of them. Increases whoa before a year time, that's crazy lol.
Speaker 2: Benson's threatens to send him back to Staten Island. Then
Speaker 2: she teases that somebody's coming back to town and they
Speaker 2: were here when the place was built.
Speaker 1: They're fucking old. Who is it?
Speaker 2: Drum roll please burn, No, it's Craigan, Baby, we got Kragan.
Speaker 2: Craigan's there. He's showing off. He's showing off Ileen's grandkids.
Speaker 2: So that's like, you know, a girlfriend.
Speaker 3: I kind of forgot about this, and I really love
Speaker 3: that Craigan has a little retirement girlfriend.
Speaker 2: That makes me feel really happy. Yeah, he has like
Speaker 2: another chapter to his life. And it's like death becomes
Speaker 2: her where like life can start at fifty.
Speaker 1: Life is long if you're lucky, Yeah, you can get
Speaker 1: a second act. Yeah. J Lo proved that to us.
Speaker 1: This is me dot dot dot now Colon a love story.
Speaker 2: I mean, only getting fourteen thousand streams on a new
Speaker 2: album on Spotify as like an international Oh you didn't
Speaker 2: see this, I mean this was a ilogo now, so
Speaker 2: it might be a little outdated. But JLO, like you know,
Speaker 2: with that movie, put out an album and over the
Speaker 2: opening weekend or the day it came out, only fourteen
Speaker 2: thousand streams on Spotify, like not even one hundred thousand
Speaker 2: for someone like Jennifer Lopez, Like, I don't know how
Speaker 2: she's not spiraling.
Speaker 1: I wonder if she blames IOH No.
Speaker 2: I think it's a weird project. I don't know if
Speaker 2: she did much prep, Like, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: I also don't know why these people can't rest, Like
Speaker 2: why can't you just chill out? We loved the wedding planner.
Speaker 2: We're on your side, like I don't. And the movie
Speaker 2: is linked to the album because I think the movie
Speaker 2: the movie is sort of just like a.
Speaker 1: Big long music video. I think for the new album.
Speaker 2: It's confusing. It's it's fourteen thousand, is confused. It's that's
Speaker 2: bad for someone that bit like that is wild. Okay,
Speaker 2: So he's showing off the grandkids.
Speaker 1: They love going on cruises.
Speaker 2: He's so happy with his life after NYPD and tomorrow
Speaker 2: tries a little humor and goes, yeah, the place is
Speaker 2: falling apart without you, And then you know she has
Speaker 2: a good sense of humor, so she doesn't care. They
Speaker 2: walk and talk on the water. The waves have ducks
Speaker 2: floating in them, and I love that. And Craigan does
Speaker 2: know one of the old cops and he sucks obviously,
Speaker 2: and the DA had family connections. He's like in white
Speaker 2: collar crimes now and he was just like a rich kid,
Speaker 2: and so that's that. Craigan says, don't reach out yet,
Speaker 2: though he rides on a high horse and I know
Speaker 2: an old life back in the two seven. He says,
Speaker 2: I'll go buy him lunch and I'll get all the
Speaker 2: gossip like a little schoolgirl. So we cut to Michelle
Speaker 2: and she's in the woodroom with blinds and she's telling
Speaker 2: her story. Her mom was out. She was drinking and drugging.
Speaker 2: That's what her mom liked to do. And her dad
Speaker 2: walks in and the place is a mess because she
Speaker 2: was making hot dogs for her and her brother and
Speaker 2: burned herself and he got angry that she was cooking
Speaker 2: at six, and the dad's like, where the fuck's your mom?
Speaker 1: Like, I can't believe you're alone.
Speaker 2: So they were put to sleep, and then when the
Speaker 2: mom came home, they were screaming. There was a huge fight,
Speaker 2: and then Michelle started to her mom came running in,
Speaker 2: and that's when she told her mom about the burn.
Speaker 2: But then she looked at Michelle strangely and started going,
Speaker 2: what did your daddy do? Do you?
Speaker 1: What did your daddy do?
Speaker 2: And she didn't want her mom to be mad at her,
Speaker 2: and every time she said like, nothing happened, the mom
Speaker 2: would get mad. So she realized that she wanted to
Speaker 2: hear that it was her dad's fault and the dad
Speaker 2: was doing something to her, and she agreed to all
Speaker 2: of that and admitted it. And so the next morning,
Speaker 2: the mom called the cops on the dad. Rollin's is like, so,
Speaker 2: your dad never touched you that night, and she says no.
Speaker 2: Her mom made her keep saying it, and she did
Speaker 2: what she was told, but she pleads that nothing happened
Speaker 2: that night. She swears, Chrisia tomorrow go to talk to
Speaker 2: the mother and she's really hot and she's walking very
Speaker 2: fast and they're barely able to keep up.
Speaker 1: She hates the cops.
Speaker 2: She's dressed amazing, great hair and jewelry like she's stacking
Speaker 2: the delicate gold perfectly, and she starts talking shit about
Speaker 2: her daughter and son almost immediately, that's a red flag.
Speaker 2: She's like, they're messed up. She's a drunk, She's always
Speaker 2: searching for something somewhere. This is all her dad's faults.
Speaker 2: Everything's because of the dad's and she's always talking shit
Speaker 2: and I'm late for work and she leaves. Amorro starts
Speaker 2: bitching a creasy like that. He doesn't even want to
Speaker 2: do the case. So now the boy's head to the
Speaker 2: prison to talk to the dad, who's like, nothing happen.
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, then why would the mom want
Speaker 2: to do this to you? And he goes, I don't know.
Speaker 2: She's an addict, Like she would come home with a
Speaker 2: wild look in her eye. He goes, usually I would
Speaker 2: leave her alone, but I was fucking pissed. She left
Speaker 2: the kids alone in the house. They could have burned
Speaker 2: the house down. And Amaro's like, so she screamed rape
Speaker 2: and convinced Michelle to lie and for you to like,
Speaker 2: I sit in jail.
Speaker 1: It says shit in jail, which is funny. But if we're.
Speaker 2: Sitting in jail, yeah, they're like, tomorrow's just like doesn't bite.
Speaker 2: He goes, she would set you up to like sit
Speaker 2: in jail for a marital fight. He goes, yeah, I've
Speaker 2: been thinking about this every day for seventeen years, motherfucker,
Speaker 2: Like it's on my mind. Amorrow's playing a little bad cop.
Speaker 2: Creasy plays a little good cop. This guy's like, I've
Speaker 2: been a good prisoner. I've been the best at I could.
Speaker 2: I write to Michelle and that boy. The boy's name's Will,
Speaker 2: so that's his son. Every single week. I tell them
Speaker 2: I love them. He's like, Audrey was a terrible mom,
Speaker 2: and I was still there for them even though I
Speaker 2: was in jail. And now Michelle is saying it didn't happen,
Speaker 2: So what more do I have to do? So now
Speaker 2: we're in a work room and Crisey is so excited
Speaker 2: to meet Bayard Ellis and he is creaming himself and
Speaker 2: Benson is embarrassed for him. So now we have the
Speaker 2: same version from dad and daughter. And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's not enough to reopen a case. Rowin's had tried
Speaker 2: to reach the retired cop, but there's no luck. Craigan
Speaker 2: starts walking in with Tomorrow and Rollin's is so happy
Speaker 2: to see him, and Crazy says, call me Sonny, and
Speaker 2: Rollins Is like, nobody else does this like, what are
Speaker 2: you doing? Cragan and Ellis do you know each other?
Speaker 2: And we're all like, okay, Craigan, what goods did you
Speaker 2: get from this gossipy lunch? What's going on? And he
Speaker 2: did get something huge. He has a letter from Michelle's
Speaker 2: first grade teacher saying that actually Michelle was crying one
Speaker 2: day at school and told the tea teacher how her
Speaker 2: mom made her lie to the police. Careese has an idea,
Speaker 2: if they can prove that the DA had this potentially
Speaker 2: expulcat I can't expulcator exculpatory evidence and didn't share it,
Speaker 2: then that's a slam dunk. And Benson's even more embarrassed,
Speaker 2: Like everyone's just so embarrassed by Caresy.
Speaker 1: He's just like can't.
Speaker 2: Get enough a fucking Kragan of Ellis of the case.
Speaker 1: He just like wants to fucking help.
Speaker 2: And but also like you're giving advice to a legendary lawyer,
Speaker 2: Like you're giving him ideas that are basic. Maybe you're
Speaker 2: at Fordham Law or this, Like it's just embarrassing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Craigan goes, Honey, hold your horses and then calls him Sonny,
Speaker 2: So we love it. I bet he loved that, and
Speaker 2: he's like it could be that they were forwarded and
Speaker 2: Cresey's confused, like, well, why wouldn't the defense use it?
Speaker 2: That makes no sense, but then gets happy and smiling
Speaker 2: and goes, oh my god, just because justice is delayed,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that justice is denied and it's common
Speaker 2: how dead Panna annoyed. Ellis looks at him like not
Speaker 2: humored at all, and he just says, so you're new here.
Speaker 2: So now we're in a DA conference room and this
Speaker 2: guy O'Dwyer knows Ellis, well, you know, Elis is popular,
Speaker 2: and he remembers this case. It was his first case ever.
Speaker 2: The jury deliberated for only a half an hour and
Speaker 2: he smiles remembering all this, and he goes, it was
Speaker 2: open and shut. And they're like, well she's recanting and
Speaker 2: he's like really again and he's like, yeah, she came
Speaker 2: in as a teen, but she was on drugs, so
Speaker 2: we really didn't find her credible. Benson shines in like uh,
Speaker 2: but like what about the letter from the first grade teacher.
Speaker 2: He's like, what are you accusing me of? And he's like, well,
Speaker 2: did you send the letter to the defense. He goes,
Speaker 2: I absolutely did. It was nineteen ninety eight, and I
Speaker 2: remember the attorney's name. Her name was Cassie Muir Moore whatever,
Speaker 2: m u I R Okay. I did the classic thing
Speaker 2: where I don't eat. I chug a fucking iced coffee beverage,
Speaker 2: and now I'm in pain. I'm hungry, I'm fascious, I
Speaker 2: don't know how to survive. I'm burping, and it's like,
Speaker 2: take a.
Speaker 1: Second, Take a second.
Speaker 3: This actor is famous too, this guy, Robert Sean Leonard,
Speaker 3: who plays the he's in Dead Poet Society.
Speaker 2: I thought he was in maybe original recipe My Crazy. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, that guy is very familiar. I didn't look
Speaker 2: into him because I was then, well, we'll meet Kate Cassie,
Speaker 2: and I do know fucking Cassie.
Speaker 1: So that was wild. Okay, are you looking up who
Speaker 1: the guy was?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was in so this Robert Shan Leonard. He's
Speaker 3: in the Gilded Age at the moment. But oh, he
Speaker 3: was on House for one hundred and seventy six episodes.
Speaker 1: That's how I know him. I was like, isn't he
Speaker 1: a regular on regular Law and Order?
Speaker 3: But it's a different sort of like medical procedural different,
Speaker 3: which also had a lot of mystery elements to it house.
Speaker 1: It was always somebody lying about doing something.
Speaker 2: Well, he's also in two other but he's in transgender Bridge,
Speaker 2: which is yeah. Another Orange is the new black person
Speaker 2: and catfishing teacher. But how do I know him? I'm like, what,
Speaker 2: let me see if there's a rom common has passed.
Speaker 3: Dead, poet Society, parabithea. No, it's like, nothing's really yeah,
Speaker 3: I really of disco. Nothing's really jumping off the page
Speaker 3: to me. Yeah, I don't know this man. Sorry to
Speaker 3: this man, I do not know. Sorry this man can
Speaker 3: he palmer? What a cool girl? Okay? So he you know,
Speaker 3: he's pissed. He's like, are you accusing me of something?
Speaker 3: He knows, he knows the person. He goes, I have
Speaker 3: no idea why she didn't bring it up in trial,
Speaker 3: but I fucking sent it to her.
Speaker 2: He's also like, but also, the dude is guilty. I
Speaker 2: don't care what anyone else is doing. I know that
Speaker 2: he's fucking guilty. So Robin's and Creasy Knock knock knock.
Speaker 2: We're at Cassie's house and they want to talk about
Speaker 2: the Derek Thompson case. And I love her. She's from
Speaker 2: Sex and the city. She's Bitsy von Muffling. She Yeah,
Speaker 2: she marries Nathan Lane's characters.
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't recognize her. I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's in two episodes because she also then gets pregnant,
Speaker 2: so she's in that episode.
Speaker 1: She's Nathan Lane's like little Beard.
Speaker 2: Well not Beard. They're married, they had a kid. They're like,
Speaker 2: they don't but.
Speaker 1: Isn't he gay? Like and they kind of just I
Speaker 1: thought that had kind of an arrangement.
Speaker 2: No, I think that was the whole thing, that the
Speaker 2: four girls were really like judgmental and making fun of him,
Speaker 2: and then they were at the wedding and they really
Speaker 2: saw how in love they were, and then they realized that,
Speaker 2: like they need to open their hearts up more to
Speaker 2: the possibilities of the world and not pigeonhole people. Because
Speaker 2: then Nathan Lamb then has a convo with Carrie of like,
Speaker 2: I know, people think I'm getting you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: because the guy's pregnant. In the episode where Charlotte goes
Speaker 2: to doctor Mao.
Speaker 1: I remember that too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the greatest names of a character, bits
Speaker 3: eevon Mufflet.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's too good.
Speaker 2: And so she's frazzled in this there's a scarf tied
Speaker 2: around her neck like a pirate.
Speaker 1: The place is a mess.
Speaker 2: She's holding a laundry basket, which meant she's.
Speaker 1: On top of it. She is doing laundry.
Speaker 2: She goes, I hated being a lawyer, I hate thinking
Speaker 2: about being a lawyer, and I got And then she
Speaker 2: goes and I got disbarred in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: So she's done.
Speaker 2: But they show her the teacher's letter and she remembers
Speaker 2: the case, and then all of a sudden, on top
Speaker 2: like this woman's clearly a mess, and on top of
Speaker 2: this desk she has all these files from being a
Speaker 2: lawyer years ago from disbarment, and the documents are right
Speaker 2: on top in Manila, like envelopes ready to be rifled through.
Speaker 1: But don't you assume that they call before they go
Speaker 1: over sometimes? How do they know she's gonna be home?
Speaker 1: So I thought maybe she pulled the file.
Speaker 2: Somebody also had a really good question for us on Instagram.
Speaker 2: They messaged They were like, how the fuck does Olivia's
Speaker 2: building not have a buzzer in it? Like later she's
Speaker 2: in a doorman building, but in earlier episodes people are
Speaker 2: always just knocking on her apartment door. There's never a buzzer,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I bet you Cassidy is catching a neighbor.
Speaker 2: That's actually fully wrong because remember the one of the
Speaker 2: early season episodes with the guy from the Weeds. Yeah
Speaker 2: he but remember people were taunting her and buzzing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's season like two three.
Speaker 3: But there are a bunch of middle season episodes where
Speaker 3: somebody just goes knock, knock, knock, and she's like Cassidy
Speaker 3: or whatever, you know, like she just opens the door.
Speaker 1: It's like an unexpected person. Well maybe they know the code, yeah,
Speaker 1: or they caught the door from a name yeah or
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 2: Who knows, But I don't think it's yeah, if they're
Speaker 2: really not consistent in that, and I wonder if they're
Speaker 2: always moving or like, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Interesting, Interesting, we're sleuths, we're psychos, we're sloths. We're like
Speaker 2: Swifties for SVU, like it's the purple shirt.
Speaker 1: They're like, we did not mean that.
Speaker 3: There's something about the name Tommy, No, there's there's actually
Speaker 3: not nothing to coincidence.
Speaker 1: It's a popular name. I know.
Speaker 2: Well, our listeners are sending me screw screenshots seeing my
Speaker 2: name liking the certain tailor. Swift fan accounts, they're like,
Speaker 2: love to see you here.
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm here. Hey, oh good good.
Speaker 2: So this lawyer remembers getting the leather the leather the letter,
Speaker 2: but never followed up with the ta and didn't want
Speaker 2: to because she didn't really want to go that hard
Speaker 2: on the little girl. It would mess up my whole
Speaker 2: you know, her whole defense. And yeah, I guess you know,
Speaker 2: whatever Rollin's increase, you're like, damn, like one bad lawyer
Speaker 2: that quit and wasn't passionate that did it for her,
Speaker 2: like you know dad who forced her. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: so much school to do something that you hate, like
Speaker 2: and then to be a public defender. Well, no, she
Speaker 2: was worse because up top they were like, oh a
Speaker 2: public defender and then I forgot who answers and are
Speaker 2: like no, much worse, like a low rate like poor
Speaker 2: ass lawyer.
Speaker 1: He couldn't even get transcribed, like.
Speaker 2: He thought he was doing something better, probably for himself
Speaker 2: or it's not a public defender, but it ended up
Speaker 2: being like maybe a cheap lawyer is even worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's that's right. They did say that, like
Speaker 1: a b rate or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So the lawyer meeting, it's lawyer meeting time.
Speaker 2: The reverends there, Michelle's there, and it's like, fuck, what
Speaker 2: are we gonna do? But this has to be enough
Speaker 2: to file a four to forty motion hearing on grounds
Speaker 2: of ineffective assistance of counsel. So best case is the
Speaker 2: conviction is vacated and then O'Dwyer drops the charges and
Speaker 2: the dad's like no, O'Dwyer hates my ass Baird's like yes.
Speaker 2: But the good news is the judge is a progressive dude,
Speaker 2: outspoken on reforming the system, so this is going to
Speaker 2: be good for us. And the track record of this
Speaker 2: judge always goes with the defense. So Michelle is optimistic
Speaker 2: and the reverend but the daddy is still like, you know, suspicious.
Speaker 2: So now we're on the court steps. O'Dwyer and Ellis
Speaker 2: are meeting, and terrible news for Ellis. The good judge
Speaker 2: suffered a mini stroke and now we have to do
Speaker 2: another judge. His name is Bertuccio, and that Ellis looks worried.
Speaker 2: Benson meets him and the client at corps and Will
Speaker 2: is there, Michelle is there at the reverend.
Speaker 1: It's full house.
Speaker 2: We meet the judge you know, it's Bertuccio, and the
Speaker 2: lawyers approach the bench after a request from Ellis. He's like,
Speaker 2: should we push the hearings since you were just to
Speaker 2: sign this case, and the judge does not like this
Speaker 2: insinuation and goes, we're gonna con you. He goes, I
Speaker 2: don't know who's not prepared. I'm fucking prepared. So they
Speaker 2: go back and forth begging daddy judge to pick their side,
Speaker 2: and the motion unfortunately is denied and the guy the dad,
Speaker 2: goes back to prison. Gavel gavel. Michelle is so upset.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Please do something. She's slipping out,
Speaker 2: like you got our hopes up for nothing. I should
Speaker 2: never have trusted you. She runs out of the courtroom.
Speaker 2: Benson's like, yeek Ben comes out at the bar enjoying, well,
Speaker 2: I don't know about enjoying, but she's drinking a glass
Speaker 2: of red wine. Ellis walks in and asks for whatever
Speaker 2: she's having. Benson's goes, no good deed and inquires how
Speaker 2: Michelle's doing, and Ellis is like, she's with the reverend
Speaker 2: and he doesn't want her to spiral down, so he's
Speaker 2: making sure she's okay. They chat, but Benson gets a
Speaker 2: ping on her phone and it might be the missing
Speaker 2: link the evidence they need. Omaro texted them McCormick is
Speaker 2: back in town, so we're gonna.
Speaker 1: Go meet this cop.
Speaker 2: Now, we also get that the reason he's coming back
Speaker 2: is because Craigan kind of tricked him and told him
Speaker 2: a nut job named Ellis wanted to re open the case,
Speaker 2: so he's actually coming back to make sure it's closed.
Speaker 2: So it's like, wait, he's helping SVU to come make
Speaker 2: sure the case is buried. Why would he do that?
Speaker 2: So it's time to have some fun. So Capudo form
Speaker 2: Orange is the new Black who we love. I love
Speaker 2: great actor, great care. I mean, I'm obsessed with this dude.
Speaker 2: He's wearing a suit jacket but also a Hawaiian shirt underneath,
Speaker 2: so we really love that energy, really portray his dirt bag.
Speaker 2: So he greets Craigan warmly and then meets Tomorrow, who
Speaker 2: hands him a cup to drink from right away.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, are you getting evidence or what?
Speaker 2: I Like, I did look into way too many things
Speaker 2: here that ended up not showing up, Like this cup
Speaker 2: was actually just a drink.
Speaker 1: That Jesus quote was just the church.
Speaker 2: Nothing is actually important, but I key, yeah swifty for SVU.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a shirt. I'm sure we'd get sued for
Speaker 1: that too. Okay.
Speaker 2: Anyways, so the greeting is warm. Amoro sits on the
Speaker 2: table to communicate a real life friendly vibe and asks
Speaker 2: what he can tell them about this piece of crap
Speaker 2: Derek Thompson. He goes, oh, he's the lowest of the
Speaker 2: low did his own daughter. And then he calls the
Speaker 2: reverend a charlatan, which I thought meant slut, but it
Speaker 2: actually means a con man, a fraud. So I look
Speaker 2: that up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like, I think charlatan's are like also, like
Speaker 3: most like Joseph Smith and the people who like start
Speaker 3: Trump is a charlatan, you know, people that are just
Speaker 3: like full of it.
Speaker 1: And they're like yeah.
Speaker 2: And then he got Ellis, and fucking Ellis has all
Speaker 2: these friends in city Hall and this is where we're at,
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh man, that's same old trashy city.
Speaker 1: What's going on? Tell me what's up.
Speaker 2: Cragan's like, well, the girl's claiming her mom made her lie.
Speaker 1: Audrey. He asks, Oh, no, she would never do that.
Speaker 2: She was just trying to protect those kids from that
Speaker 2: pedophile and he goes, she's all broken up about this
Speaker 2: and they're like, excuse me, andmar I was like, hold up,
Speaker 2: hold up, hold up.
Speaker 1: You talked to Audrey Thompson.
Speaker 2: He says, yes, She calls me like right after you
Speaker 2: guys all started poking around, and after what she went through,
Speaker 2: she looks to him for guidance and support. And he says,
Speaker 2: you know, actually, he says, not only do they keep
Speaker 2: in touch after the case, but he knew her before.
Speaker 1: He says, he broke up.
Speaker 2: Domestic disputes there all the time, and this guy had history.
Speaker 2: And Tomorrow brings up the letter. The dude denies it,
Speaker 2: and he's like, dude is trying to convince him that
Speaker 2: he didn't do it, but he did it. He is
Speaker 2: sick and he's controlling and he's nuts. And that's the
Speaker 2: end of the meeting. Craigan says, I lean in him
Speaker 2: or catching a matinee. So he spins around while walking
Speaker 2: like capudo out and still pray playing the friendly game.
Speaker 2: But during the spin he locks eyes with Amorrow and
Speaker 2: they communicate nonverbally.
Speaker 1: During the spin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we have a Careesi thinking out loud,
Speaker 2: trying to understand, Like the fucking detective keeps in touch
Speaker 2: with the accuser. So the three domestic disputes happened, and
Speaker 2: the last one was a week before the accusation. So
Speaker 2: what do we know about this guy? You know, he's
Speaker 2: divorced from his wife two years after all this this
Speaker 2: the case happened, and then she died a year ago,
Speaker 2: very sad. So Amanda finds the divorce petition on her
Speaker 2: computer and the grounds are for adult tree and they
Speaker 2: all like run to the computer. They stand above Rollins
Speaker 2: and holy shit, Audrey's name is in the documents as
Speaker 2: a correspondent. So Capudo is fucking the wife of a
Speaker 2: guy he just arrested. Cariese wants to party with this info.
Speaker 2: Ellis is, of course being a cock block and like, sure, yeah,
Speaker 2: I get this, but we have to prove the relationship
Speaker 2: started before the trial. Cariese calls Audrey hot box Audrey,
Speaker 2: which I.
Speaker 1: Like, what do we do? Okay?
Speaker 2: So Rollin suggests Michelle and Will but they were super young,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, you'd be surprised what kids can do.
Speaker 2: So Michelle's also very fragile, like we have to be careful.
Speaker 2: Who's going to be able to communicate with her, like,
Speaker 2: who's going to talk to them? So obviously it's Benson.
Speaker 2: So Benson is with Michelle and Will and of course
Speaker 2: the reverend's back there sitting paying attention. And they remember
Speaker 2: McCormick and he came over a bunch after the dad
Speaker 2: was locked up, and Michelle remembers the first time meeting him.
Speaker 2: It was before Christmas. Mom and dad were fighting and
Speaker 2: mom knocked over the Christmas tree and he knocked her over,
Speaker 2: and she called the cops and McCormick came by, and
Speaker 2: she remembers her mom crying and McCormick hugging her, and
Speaker 2: Benson asks if there was any other physical contact, and
Speaker 2: they're becoming suspicious with this line of questioning, and the
Speaker 2: reverend cuts in and is like, well, some evidence shows
Speaker 2: your mom and the cop were hooking up. And Michelle
Speaker 2: is shocked. Oh my god, she exclaims. Benson says, well,
Speaker 2: we're not sure, but you have any evidence that, and
Speaker 2: Michelle's like, fuck yes. That the mom went away for
Speaker 2: a weekend after the dad was already in jail. The
Speaker 2: kids stayed with the grandparents. She came back with a
Speaker 2: snow globe with a pink flamingo in it. So while
Speaker 2: their dad was in jail before or after the trial,
Speaker 2: she can't really recall exactly that, but you know that
Speaker 2: she was fucking in fucking Florida. And we know where
Speaker 2: this guy is now Florida. I guess flamingos can be anywhere,
Speaker 2: but the airport in Tampa. There's a flamingo. So we're
Speaker 2: at the whiteboard. It's brainstorm time. All hands on deck.
Speaker 2: They knew each other six months before the trial. They
Speaker 2: have evidence to prove that they were in Key West
Speaker 2: together one weekend, which is a dream destination for Kiera
Speaker 2: and I. We really want to perform at Key West
Speaker 2: if any of you can make us that happen. Audrey
Speaker 2: got a disorderly and talks that weekend, so that's proof.
Speaker 2: And then finally Criesy's like, come on, this must be
Speaker 2: enough evidence. Come on, Ellis, it must be. Ellis takes
Speaker 2: a drink of coffee and now we're back in court.
Speaker 2: And so now O'Dwyer and Ellis are sparring, and it's
Speaker 2: a different judge, So that's good. O'Dwyer's yelling, so he
Speaker 2: must know he's losing, and the judge grants a petition
Speaker 2: to appeal and fuck, yeah, there's going to be a retrial,
Speaker 2: but it's SVU. I wouldn't celebrate too soon, and the
Speaker 2: dad is also annoyed. He goes, why a retrial, Why
Speaker 2: not just drop the charges right now. Ellis is like, listen,
Speaker 2: bro one step at a time. O'Dwyer walks over with
Speaker 2: a deal and he's like, Okay, if your dude doesn't
Speaker 2: want a retrial, here's the deal. Criminal Sexual Act in
Speaker 2: the first degree and time serves. He goes, so basically,
Speaker 2: if he says he's guilty, he gets to leave jail.
Speaker 2: And the dad's like, fuck that, I would be a felon,
Speaker 2: and Benson shimes in and on the registry and Ellis
Speaker 2: is like, and you have to admit it in open
Speaker 2: court that you did it, and fucking that's a bad deal,
Speaker 2: but kay, or you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 2: But it would save his daughter the need to testify,
Speaker 2: so saving her a little drama. And he's dumbfounded, like
Speaker 2: I can't believe he's taking this to trial again, and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, he really thinks you're guilty, and Alice is like, well,
Speaker 2: that's also easier than accepting that maybe he did put
Speaker 2: an innocent man in prison, and the dad is like, no,
Speaker 2: all this time that I've had, the only thing I
Speaker 2: have is that I didn't do it. That's all I have,
Speaker 2: and he cannot ask me to say that I did it.
Speaker 2: And the Reverend's like, but he's going to keep you
Speaker 2: in jail forever, and the bailiff comes and cuffs him
Speaker 2: and goes, the truth will set me free, not a lie.
Speaker 2: Michelle is stressed. So now we're back of the court steps.
Speaker 2: O'Dwyer's like, your dude seems ready for court, and Ellie
Speaker 2: snaps back like, yeah, he's had seventeen years to think
Speaker 2: about it. The lawyer is like, I gave him a
Speaker 2: path out and Benson's like, yeah, but that should tell
Speaker 2: you something. You would rather sit in jail than lie
Speaker 2: and say he did it? And Dwyer's like, no, it
Speaker 2: just shows me that he's a narcissist. If he really
Speaker 2: cared about his daughter, he wouldn't put her through this.
Speaker 2: He is all about ego and his name, and Alice
Speaker 2: is pissed, like, funny, you should talk about ego. Alice
Speaker 2: is like, nobody likes to admit a mistake, but there
Speaker 2: has been a miscarriage of justice, and we have the
Speaker 2: opportunity to make it right. He goes, we you mean
Speaker 2: a jury. It's up to the jurum. So he says
Speaker 2: good luck and skips off. So now it's court time.
Speaker 2: The mom is on the stand and she's like, Michelle
Speaker 2: told her that the daddy hurt me with his peepee
Speaker 2: and the dad sighs and anger in his seat. The
Speaker 2: mom admits to knowing capudo pre trial. She says that
Speaker 2: her and Derek went through was nothing like what he
Speaker 2: put the daughter through that night. And now the dad
Speaker 2: makes a thinking face and I think this is another
Speaker 2: time where I read it into someone's facial expression that.
Speaker 1: Was not there.
Speaker 2: I don't think anything happens with this face. Alice is
Speaker 2: like thinking something above our heads. I feel as well.
Speaker 2: I don't think so I just need to relax. So
Speaker 2: she plays is the you know, I only care about
Speaker 2: my child's safety. So now it's Ellis's turn, and he
Speaker 2: stomps on up. He comes swinging you were involved with
Speaker 2: him and you guys spent the weekend in Florida? When
Speaker 2: was that before your ex husband's trial? And she's like,
Speaker 2: who cares? He goes, right, if it's who cares? Then
Speaker 2: why not disclose that information to the DA or the
Speaker 2: defense council? And she's like, well, he was married, it
Speaker 2: was wrong. We didn't want the wife to find out.
Speaker 2: And her bangs are amazing. Also, Ellis doesn't buy it
Speaker 2: and is standing near the jury giving them a little
Speaker 2: razzle dazzle. He says, or you knew that would make
Speaker 2: you look bad in front of the jury and no
Speaker 2: one would believe you. Objection with drawn. And then it's
Speaker 2: what time did you come home? He asks? She was
Speaker 2: not sure. He asked if she was drinking yes, fought
Speaker 2: with the husband, yes. And right after that is when
Speaker 2: your daughter chose to disclose you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense, like all of this is happening,
Speaker 2: and this is when she's going to reveal the secrets
Speaker 2: of molestation and she screams yeah, and he's like, okay,
Speaker 2: then why didn't you get medical attention for her or
Speaker 2: call the police that night? She said she wanted to
Speaker 2: wait until he was out of the house. But the
Speaker 2: next morning is when actually McCormick was on duty, and
Speaker 2: he's like, you wanted to wait and call when he
Speaker 2: was working and she's like absolutely, not, I was waiting
Speaker 2: for him to get out of the house. And Ellis
Speaker 2: then asks if it was McCormick's idea to get him
Speaker 2: out of the house, and she goes no, but her
Speaker 2: voice is shaky, and so he's like, okay, so you
Speaker 2: came up with that idea all on your own objection
Speaker 2: withdrawn she looks beautiful. I have to keep saying that,
Speaker 2: but she is a bad person. So now the dad's
Speaker 2: on the stand and he's like, I wasn't the best dad.
Speaker 2: I didn't have a lot of money, I worked long hours,
Speaker 2: but I tried my best. And my wife was never
Speaker 2: interested in that because she loved drugs and alcohol. And
Speaker 2: it cuts to Benson increasy, looking stern in the pews.
Speaker 2: They bring up how he kept in touch with them
Speaker 2: from prison because he knew they needed parenting, even if
Speaker 2: it was just through letters. Ellis goes, okay, so that night,
Speaker 2: did you assault your daughter? He says absolutely not. He
Speaker 2: walks off. So now it's dwy Or time. So basically
Speaker 2: back in the day when they said what about the semen,
Speaker 2: he said, oh, she planted it instead of saying there
Speaker 2: wasn't any semen, but there actually wasn't semen. So he's like,
Speaker 2: I was just trying to make sense of it, and
Speaker 2: you guys are trying to trick me, and they're like, no,
Speaker 2: you actually knew there was semen because it's yours. So
Speaker 2: that's their little fight. Now, Dwyer gets up and says,
Speaker 2: the only reason we are here is because your daughter
Speaker 2: is now recanting her original statement and you wrote her letters.
Speaker 2: Did you ask her in those letters to help you
Speaker 2: get out of prison? Do you think that is why
Speaker 2: she is recanting today? Did you manipulate her into it?
Speaker 2: He says, I only asked her to tell the truth.
Speaker 2: He says she did to the court and he yells no,
Speaker 2: he said what her mother told her to say. And
Speaker 2: Dwyer says, and now she's saying what you are telling
Speaker 2: her to say. That's a good one. Yeah, but there
Speaker 2: is an objection and it is sustained. Wow, Okay, so
Speaker 2: he got him. Benson closes her eyes and Couresy drops
Speaker 2: his head. So now Michelle is on the stand. She says,
Speaker 2: you know, mom told me to say it, and I
Speaker 2: said it because I was six and I was scared
Speaker 2: of my mother, and I regretted it every day of
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 1: But now it's Dwyer times.
Speaker 2: So then you know this is a really good lawyer matchup,
Speaker 2: like this is the this is top tier lawyer a
Speaker 2: lawyer episode. I feel like they're both really killing him
Speaker 2: and really good, like written lines. So Dwyer goes, well,
Speaker 2: now you're saying no, but back then you said yes.
Speaker 2: And so then he makes her read old testimony from
Speaker 2: when she was six and it is graphic, and then
Speaker 2: he's like, okay, so you remember that and she says yes,
Speaker 2: and he's like, okay, so now do you remember you
Speaker 2: told SV recently about your burned hand? And she goes yeah,
Speaker 2: and he's like, okay, so why doesn't the medical report
Speaker 2: the next day not mention at all? And she's like,
Speaker 2: because we were there for the rape, I didn't say
Speaker 2: anything about my burnt hand. But she's getting nervous up there,
Speaker 2: and he's like, is it possible you never burned your
Speaker 2: hand and actually your dad has convinced you that that happened.
Speaker 2: Uh oh, she says, I don't think so, but he says,
Speaker 2: but it's possible your mom convinced you that you were
Speaker 2: raped even though you said that never happened, and her
Speaker 2: brain is combusting. He says, or maybe it's easier to
Speaker 2: believe your father didn't rape you. Objection sustained. He asked,
Speaker 2: did your father hurt you that night? And she says
Speaker 2: I know he didn't, and he goes, did you know
Speaker 2: or do you just remember he didn't? She says, I
Speaker 2: don't remember him doing anything. With conviction, she says this
Speaker 2: and Dwyer's so fucking good. He goes, that is not
Speaker 2: the same as you remember that he didn't do anything.
Speaker 2: He's like, is this a story that you were told
Speaker 2: to remember? And he pushes again and says you are
Speaker 2: under oath? Did your father rape you? She's silent. He
Speaker 2: asks again. She cries and says I don't know. I
Speaker 2: was six. She turns to him and says, daddy, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry. He walks away. Ellis asks to redirect. The
Speaker 2: judge allows it. She sat on the stand. He walks
Speaker 2: over slowly and in a soft voice, says, I know
Speaker 2: how much it took for you to be here today.
Speaker 2: Did Dwyer bully you just now? And she says yes.
Speaker 2: He asked did that confuse you? And did you give
Speaker 2: him the answer he wanted to hear so he would stop,
Speaker 2: And she says yes, and he goes similar like when
Speaker 2: your mom when you were six, and she goes absolutely.
Speaker 2: He then asks again, did your father do that to you?
Speaker 2: She says no, and then he asks, in fact, you
Speaker 2: tried to tell the truth to your teacher and a
Speaker 2: detective and she goes yes, and they wouldn't listen, and
Speaker 2: Alice says, I'm listening to you, Michelle, I'm listening and
Speaker 2: asks did your father rape you that night? She says no, no,
Speaker 2: he didn't. She stares into Ellis then looks down and
Speaker 2: you can see she's questioning everything because I think of
Speaker 2: what Dwyer said for like who the dad smiles and
Speaker 2: presses his lips into his mouth and Benson tilts her head.
Speaker 2: Michelle is smoking a cigarette outside. Benson asks if she's
Speaker 2: all right, but she just is like, oh fuck, am
Speaker 2: I doing all this for my father or for me?
Speaker 2: And she's like, you don't get it, Like what's it
Speaker 2: like for people to think that my father did this
Speaker 2: to me? I used to say he was dead because
Speaker 2: I didn't want I want this part of my life
Speaker 2: to be over, and Benson goes, it is you made
Speaker 2: sure the truth was heard?
Speaker 1: This time?
Speaker 2: She goes the truth the truth is, I don't really remember.
Speaker 2: Benson stares off, like oh fuck, as she runs off,
Speaker 2: throwing her cigarette to the ground. So the jury, you know,
Speaker 2: it's jury verdict time, and the jury finds the defendant
Speaker 2: not guilty. He exclaims yes, and Bend's over and joy.
Speaker 2: He hugs Ellis and hugs Will and Benson looks over
Speaker 2: and Michelle is just sitting there, not happy at all,
Speaker 2: and just hugs him somberly. Ellis walks over to Benson
Speaker 2: and says, we did the right thing, but the way
Speaker 2: Michelle is looking at Benson makes her ask did we
Speaker 2: Michelle looks upset and it ends.
Speaker 3: It's a really weird episode and ending like you're just
Speaker 3: kind of like, wa but all the evidence is that,
Speaker 3: like you were framed by your wife having an affair
Speaker 3: with this cop, and like you know, she planted this
Speaker 3: seed to your daughter and then Samir Wiley's care.
Speaker 1: It just feels like the the O'Dwyer the letters.
Speaker 2: It's like because if he started writing letters every single
Speaker 2: week from when she was six, like who knows, yeah, capudo,
Speaker 2: and all of them are shady obviously, Yeah, yeah, mom sucks.
Speaker 2: Like this is all very upsetting and I'd like to
Speaker 2: know what Will damage is, Like why is Will have
Speaker 2: nothing to say the brother?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's also kind of like did this incident exist
Speaker 3: in a vacuum, Like did he ever do anything else?
Speaker 3: Did he ever like touch you in a weird way?
Speaker 3: Like like you know what I mean? So it I
Speaker 3: don't know. I feel like he just fucked with her.
Speaker 3: They're just everyone has just fucked with her head so
Speaker 3: much that who knows what the truth is? And I
Speaker 3: guess that's the point of the episode. But don't go
Speaker 3: anywhere because the true crime is really fascinating.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is very close to what happens in
Speaker 1: this episode.
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety seven, eight year old Shaneia Kelly was
Speaker 3: staying home from school with her dad, Darryl Kelly, which
Speaker 3: sounds very close to Derek, but it's Daryl who worked
Speaker 3: from home as an elect like he worked at a store,
Speaker 3: but he was mixing electronics at home. So she's like
Speaker 3: hanging out with her dad. She eventually goes to her
Speaker 3: room to lie down, and at some point her mom,
Speaker 3: who did suffer with drug and alcohol addiction, suddenly bursts
Speaker 3: in with a belt, demanding to know what her dad
Speaker 3: did to her.
Speaker 1: She later wrote, I.
Speaker 3: Guess mommy was drunk or something end quote, and she
Speaker 3: told her dad didn't do anything to her, but her
Speaker 3: mom kept asking and threatening her with the belt. So
Speaker 3: it's like the episode, but there was a physical violence
Speaker 3: component to it where she had a belt, and so
Speaker 3: Shania said, I didn't want to get beats, so I
Speaker 3: made up a lie that I'd take back any day.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Shania's mother's name is Charade, and I don't know why
Speaker 3: SVU didn't use that. It's too good. So a week
Speaker 3: after this happens, Charade takes Shania on a little walk
Speaker 3: and asks her again about this abuse, and she says
Speaker 3: that Shania confirmed it. That said she could have been
Speaker 3: remembering the belts and was just telling her mother what
Speaker 3: she wanted to hear. She's also eight, you know, they
Speaker 3: make her six in this episode, like gets a little
Speaker 3: bit older, Like I remember a lot more from when
Speaker 3: I'm eight than I do from when I'm six, you know.
Speaker 3: After that Charade and her mother, Shania's grandmother took her
Speaker 3: to a clinic to get checked out, where she told
Speaker 3: medical personnel she'd been assaulted, and they reported the allegations
Speaker 3: to the police and to CPS. A few days later,
Speaker 3: police bring Darryl Kelly in for questioning. When they told
Speaker 3: him his daughter was accusing him of sexual assault, he
Speaker 3: was incredulous. He said, quote, come on, stop playing, You've
Speaker 3: got to be joking.
Speaker 1: End quote.
Speaker 3: So the detective was Thomas Mansonelli, who grilled Daryl for
Speaker 3: a while and told him a ton of lies to
Speaker 3: get a confession, like there were like his fingerprints were
Speaker 3: found on her thigh, and but that his semen was
Speaker 3: found on her so much like in the episode they
Speaker 3: said there was semen. He then said, oh, maybe my
Speaker 3: wife planted it, Like he could not figure out how
Speaker 3: they had this evidence, you know, and he totally denied
Speaker 3: any of it happening. And he also had no idea
Speaker 3: that he should ask for a lawyer because he was like,
Speaker 3: I'm innocent.
Speaker 1: And also SVU hadn't come out on television yet.
Speaker 3: So at this point, this guy's thirty eight and he
Speaker 3: has no record, he has no felony record at all,
Speaker 3: but they charge him with rape, sodomy, and sexual abuse.
Speaker 3: He was offered a six to twelve year plea deal
Speaker 3: to plead guilty, and he said, no way, I'm innocent.
Speaker 3: And Shanayah testified against her dad, and he couldn't believe
Speaker 3: it when she came to because he was never allowed
Speaker 3: to see her from the time that he got arrested
Speaker 3: to court, and he couldn't believe that she was testifying.
Speaker 3: And then apparently Sharade had already told the prosecutor by
Speaker 3: the time trial rolled around that she didn't think Daryl
Speaker 3: had done anything, like even the mom was like, I
Speaker 3: don't think he did anything. And the prosecutor fought to
Speaker 3: keep that little tidbit away from the jury, saying that
Speaker 3: it was irrelevant, and the judge agreed.
Speaker 1: So the judge agreed that whatever the mom's.
Speaker 3: Opinion of this is doesn't matter, and it's all on
Speaker 3: this eight year old girl's testimony. So in court, Sharade
Speaker 3: repeated the allegations but never got to say that she
Speaker 3: no longer believed they were true, that she was not
Speaker 3: allowed to say that. So in this case, there are
Speaker 3: no witnesses, There is no DNA. The medical exam found
Speaker 3: Shanaia's hymen was still intact and no definitive proof of
Speaker 3: sexual assault or abuse had happened. There was just some
Speaker 3: skinny irritation which they said could have come from a
Speaker 3: lot of other causes, But Darryl Kelly was very eager
Speaker 3: to take the stand in his own defense. And while
Speaker 3: he was up there, he told the jury about his
Speaker 3: military experience, and he happened to mention the Vietnam Era,
Speaker 3: which he is too young to have served in, and
Speaker 3: people took this as him lying about being in Vietnam.
Speaker 3: And then I guess also on the stand he implied
Speaker 3: that he had a purple heart, but he doesn't. And
Speaker 3: so this I think factors into him getting convicted. Because
Speaker 3: the trial lasted a week, it took the jury six
Speaker 3: hours to convict, and he gets sentenced to twenty to
Speaker 3: forty years. The judge specifically reprimandsed him during the sentencing
Speaker 3: about lying about his military service. And I'm also sure
Speaker 3: that there's a racial element here at play as well.
Speaker 3: Darryl is a black man, Like there's just you know,
Speaker 3: and the fact that this little black girl is also
Speaker 3: trying to correct her story and recant and they're not
Speaker 3: believing her either. I just feel like there's a racial
Speaker 3: element to all of this. So since their mother was
Speaker 3: struggling with addiction, Shania and her four siblings were sent
Speaker 3: to live with the grandmother with their maternal grandmother, and
Speaker 3: then when her grandmother asked her about it about a
Speaker 3: year after the trial, Shania told her that there had
Speaker 3: been no sexual assault of any kind.
Speaker 1: She told the grandmother that.
Speaker 3: And so when she was questioned by her father's a
Speaker 3: peal lawyer and asked how she came up with this
Speaker 3: whole story that she told on the stand, she said,
Speaker 3: she just made it up, like, you know, because they
Speaker 3: would ask.
Speaker 1: Her like, were you on your back? Where were you?
Speaker 1: And she'd say, yeah, I was on my back.
Speaker 3: Like basically, she just kind of improvised and went with
Speaker 3: the story on the stand. But it was they felt
Speaker 3: kind of a graphic and detailed story for a eight
Speaker 3: or nine year old to come up with. But another
Speaker 3: piece of information that was left out, which was apparently
Speaker 3: not in the taped interview, but was something that she
Speaker 3: did reveal at some point, was that charade the mother
Speaker 3: used to have very explicit adult conversations with Shanaia about
Speaker 3: sex and that she had seen her parents' porn videos.
Speaker 3: So it wasn't that crazy for an eight year old
Speaker 3: who has been had these conversations with their mother and
Speaker 3: knew a lot about sex to be able to provide
Speaker 3: some of these details. So regardless, Daryl is thrilled that
Speaker 3: Shanaia has recounted and thinks he's on his way out
Speaker 3: of jail. And in ninety nine, Shanaia testifies that I
Speaker 3: think I've been saying Shanaia, but it's Shanea. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: In ninety nine, Shanea testifies that she's lied in her
Speaker 3: original testimony. The grandmother testified as well, and she also
Speaker 3: said that she heard a police officer promised Shaneia a
Speaker 3: bicycle if she told the truth, So that's not great.
Speaker 3: But the judge said that Shanea's new testimony was not credible.
Speaker 3: He said, quote to believe that it was all made up,
Speaker 3: rehearsed as a result of a threat of a beating
Speaker 3: by her mother is just not plausible.
Speaker 1: I kind of think it's plausible. But he thought.
Speaker 3: Sharade had pressured Shanea to recant so that Daryl could
Speaker 3: come home. So he's just stuck in jail now. He's
Speaker 3: initially not allowed to talk to his five kids at all,
Speaker 3: but he filed a motion in family court in two
Speaker 3: thousand and one and they did grant him permission to
Speaker 3: write and call his kids, so he wrote his kids often.
Speaker 3: They all responded to him a lot like. They all
Speaker 3: were like, we miss you, dad, Why are you getting out?
Speaker 3: Are you sure you're gonna be out for my sixteenth birthday?
Speaker 3: Are we gonna go to Disney when you get out?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: They really wrote to him a lot like it.
Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't sound like they were angry at him,
Speaker 3: or you know that he had been abusive to the
Speaker 3: siblings at all. In two thousand and two, Shaneia wrote
Speaker 3: a letter to her dad in jail, and it said,
Speaker 3: Dear Daddy, I do feel bad about telling a lie.
Speaker 3: All I want to do is put it all behind.
Speaker 3: You want the truth, I'll tell you the truth the
Speaker 3: whole part I read earlier. Her quotes were from this
Speaker 3: letter where she said Mommy came in drunk and she
Speaker 3: had a belt, and this and that and that. That's
Speaker 3: how she lied. She wrote, quote, I regret everything I said.
Speaker 3: I feel guilty when I talk about it. I feel
Speaker 3: that I should be in prison instead of you. I
Speaker 3: love you, Daddy, and the love I have for you
Speaker 3: can never be changed. Every time that I talk about it,
Speaker 3: I think thank you and God both hate me. End
Speaker 3: of quote, and her mom backs up her story. The
Speaker 3: mom says, quote, her statement that I threatened her with
Speaker 3: a belt after she came upstairs while apparently I was
Speaker 3: in a drug induced state, is in fact accurate. The
Speaker 3: mother Charade told The New Yorker she hoped Kelly would
Speaker 3: get parole, and she says, quote, I'm just sorry about
Speaker 3: how things went down end quote. So the Mom's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I threatened her with a belt. It's true. So it
Speaker 3: feels like there's really no there there. In two thousand
Speaker 3: and three, Charade was clean. She got her kids back,
Speaker 3: and then she took them to visit Daryl in prison
Speaker 3: at green Haven, just like in the episode that's where
Speaker 3: he's imprisoned, and Shanea was so nervous to see him
Speaker 3: for the first time since the trial. It's been four
Speaker 3: years at this point, and as soon as she sees him,
Speaker 3: she starts to cry, and he runs across the room
Speaker 3: and picks her up and hugs her and tells her
Speaker 3: he loves her and he doesn't blame her. He said
Speaker 3: to her, quote everything that happened to me is not
Speaker 3: your fault. And she told New York Magazine in that moment, quote,
Speaker 3: it was like I could breathe. So for the next
Speaker 3: ten years he's kind of just toiling away in jail.
Speaker 3: He's contacting all these Innocence Project type groups to no avail.
Speaker 3: He's trying to find a bay ort Ellis to get
Speaker 3: in his corner. And the thing was is that he
Speaker 3: was really serving time for a crime that it seems
Speaker 3: never occurred. And so when he asked his wife why
Speaker 3: she coerced Shanaia into the story, she said, quote, I
Speaker 3: was on a binge.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I did it. End quote.
Speaker 3: So in twenty twelve, a lawyer named Peter Cross starts
Speaker 3: representing Darryl pro bono, but he was unsuccessful in getting
Speaker 3: him anywhere in getting retried or appeals or anything. Shania
Speaker 3: in this period kind of loses touch with her dad
Speaker 3: for long periods of time, like she goes to college,
Speaker 3: she's kind of doing her own thing, but then she
Speaker 3: has a particular phone call with him when he happens
Speaker 3: to call the house and she's home for the weekend
Speaker 3: from college. And then she started to get more and
Speaker 3: more adamant in her quest to free her dad from
Speaker 3: that moment on, and as she got older, So in
Speaker 3: twenty twelve, she's twenty three, she wrote a letter to
Speaker 3: Governor Andrew Cuomo, which kind of kicked off a reinvestigation,
Speaker 3: but ultimately they didn't believe her recantation. Like a bunch
Speaker 3: of prosecutors like revisited the case and were like, we
Speaker 3: just don't believe that this recant. So she started a
Speaker 3: change dot org petition in twenty fourteen. I did look
Speaker 3: it up and it has one hundred and seventy five
Speaker 3: thousand signatures, but it has been closed. And Shaneia has
Speaker 3: also said, quote, I've grown to just be like, you
Speaker 3: know what, it was my fault, but I was young
Speaker 3: at the time, so I have to forgive myself.
Speaker 1: So end quote.
Speaker 3: Shaneia now is around thirty four, She has a husband
Speaker 3: and two sons. She has a career. She lives in
Speaker 3: the Midwest. So this is crazy. Like as of twenty seventeen,
Speaker 3: he was fifty eight. He was at Collins Correctional Facility
Speaker 3: in Erie County, had been moved. That's about thirty miles
Speaker 3: from Buffalo, And in twenty eighteen he was up for
Speaker 3: parole for the first time. So gosh, twenty eighteen, that's
Speaker 3: about he's already served twenty years.
Speaker 1: Basically, nineteen or twenty years.
Speaker 3: Shaneia sends the parole board a letter before his twenty
Speaker 3: eighteen parole hearing that's read quote, I am the alleged victim,
Speaker 3: the alleged victim, and quotes in the case, and I
Speaker 3: feel it necessary to let everyone know my father did
Speaker 3: not do the acts he is charged with. I was
Speaker 3: never molested, raped, and or sodomized end of statement. So
Speaker 3: it's really wild. A ton of people were writing about
Speaker 3: this case in the twenty tens. The New Yorker did
Speaker 3: an article, the big article the New York Magazine. They're
Speaker 3: all in my sources. Both of those pieces New Yorker
Speaker 3: and New York mag were written by Jennifer Gonnerman, who
Speaker 3: still works for The New Yorker and wrote a big
Speaker 3: piece about Khalif Browder that was a Pulitzer Prize finalist.
Speaker 3: She covers a lot of story about wrongly accused people.
Speaker 3: NBC News interviewed Shaneia. There was just a lot of
Speaker 3: coverage going on about like is this man in jail
Speaker 3: for a crime that never actually happened, And when I
Speaker 3: google it now, there is absolutely nothing written about it
Speaker 3: since twenty seventeen, which is six years but I looked
Speaker 3: it up and Darryl was granted parole. Darryl Kelly was
Speaker 3: granted parole. I looked him up in the inmate look
Speaker 3: up finder that you and I love to use so much.
Speaker 3: He was granted parole on November twentieth of twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: His parole status says discharged with an effective date of twelve,
Speaker 3: twenty seven, twenty two. So I wonder if that means
Speaker 3: that the parole lasted for three years and now is over.
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 3: People can let me know. I don't really know what
Speaker 3: a discharge effective date is. He's currently sixty four, but
Speaker 3: there is like nothing online about how Shaney is doing,
Speaker 3: how he's doing, whether they've re connected or anything, or
Speaker 3: whether they've sued the state.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if he could sue the stake
Speaker 2: because the appeals didn't go through it.
Speaker 3: That's true, he's just on but like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: it just feels like he served twenty years in prison
Speaker 3: for something that didn't happen, like and kind of everybody
Speaker 3: involved says nothing happened.
Speaker 2: Well, the fact that the mom admitted to just making
Speaker 2: it up and she doesn't know why, and.
Speaker 1: The physical threat.
Speaker 3: Like I understand the show changes it because they want
Speaker 3: to make it more like you know, TV cinematic, et cetera.
Speaker 3: They had to make it kind of like ambiguous at
Speaker 3: the end of whether happened or not. But it feels
Speaker 3: to me like in the real thing, it doesn't feel
Speaker 3: like a crime occurred.
Speaker 2: Agreed. And I just think that both the attorneys were
Speaker 2: so good and I think, yeah, that added to their
Speaker 2: little wrastle Dad.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to call it.
Speaker 2: They're like their job as lawyers is what put doubts
Speaker 2: and the like. Those were good statements and questions and
Speaker 2: like they really nailed it in.
Speaker 3: Suspicions Ellis, I feel like his redirect on Michelle was
Speaker 3: like masterful, Like how he's like, do you feel like
Speaker 3: you need to give answers that make people not be
Speaker 3: mad at you and just give people what they want
Speaker 3: to hear?
Speaker 1: And it was like, like that was amazing.
Speaker 3: But yeah, Also, I think also the age thing, she
Speaker 3: is six, Like I don't remember a ton of from
Speaker 3: when I'm six, but I remember a lot more from
Speaker 3: when I ate nine. So the episode changed it a bit,
Speaker 3: But I'm glad he's out. He did twenty years in prison,
Speaker 3: and then that's all too much.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: Well, this episode, we actually don't have a guest this week,
Speaker 3: so we are just gonna dive right in to our
Speaker 3: post mortem. So postmortem tricky. I mean, the episode wants
Speaker 3: you to believe one thing. The real life story seems
Speaker 3: to me pretty cut and dry. But the episode, this
Speaker 3: is one of those ones where what's the one that's
Speaker 3: like the classic he said, she said with Shannon Sassimon.
Speaker 1: It's called Doubt, Yeah, Doubt, the episode Doubt.
Speaker 3: I mean it's like that one ends much more abruptly,
Speaker 3: with like a total cliffhanger and like a you'll never
Speaker 3: know kind of thing, and then this one too is
Speaker 3: kind of like, ugh, well, what's.
Speaker 1: The I don't know.
Speaker 3: Normally we end a little bit more black and white
Speaker 3: in these s few episodes.
Speaker 1: So no, it's really upsetting.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the thing that haunts me is
Speaker 2: in the trial when they're like, yeah, the mom told
Speaker 2: her what to do, and now the dad is, yeah,
Speaker 2: what she should say, And that's when it clicked where
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, is she just being continuously
Speaker 2: manipulated by these two evil people, or you know, is
Speaker 2: it the truth that's tough.
Speaker 1: It's it is. It's a tough one.
Speaker 3: I do think the way the episode has it like
Speaker 3: made up, like it's just too much of a coincidence
Speaker 3: that the mom was fucking the cop investigating the case
Speaker 3: like that that also he did it, like I don't know,
Speaker 3: like that would be kind.
Speaker 1: Of But she looks so sad when they hutt.
Speaker 3: Yeah she does, But I think that could be also
Speaker 3: because what you're saying, like does her dad love her
Speaker 3: or was he like using her just to get out
Speaker 3: of jail, Like does her like her mom did that.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like she's sad also because she spent
Speaker 3: her whole life in this which I'm sure is true
Speaker 3: of the real girl as well, like in this web
Speaker 3: of like kind of being a child caught in this
Speaker 3: web of like adult bullshit, you know, like like parents
Speaker 3: using each other, using kids as like pawns against each other,
Speaker 3: you know. And also this episode is coming out right
Speaker 3: after the oscars, as we talked about in the in
Speaker 3: the beginning, and they did have Andre Brower in the
Speaker 3: in Memoriam, and that really hit me. That really hit
Speaker 3: me like a ton of bricks. I weirdly love the
Speaker 3: in Memoriam so much. But it's like as we get older,
Speaker 3: we're just knowing so many more people in it. We
Speaker 3: used to when we were younger, just to be like,
Speaker 3: you know, your parents would watch and go or whatever,
Speaker 3: and now it's like all these people that we know
Speaker 3: and love. Matthew Perry was sad. You know who didn't
Speaker 3: get put in it? Lance Reddick another SVU alum. Suzanne
Speaker 3: Summer's not an SVU alum.
Speaker 2: My most famous in Memoriam is when I went to
Speaker 2: the Porn Awards and they did it in Memoriam before
Speaker 2: this award show started. But obviously it's like the porn
Speaker 2: world so mostly sad, young tragic death. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: you watch a like a montage of very young dead people.
Speaker 2: And then Cardi B came out like it was really insane.
Speaker 2: It was insane.
Speaker 3: Oh my lord, they're really playing with your emotions at
Speaker 3: the Porn Awards.
Speaker 1: Fuck god.
Speaker 2: I would like to go down in history and say
Speaker 2: I had not mention Taylor Swift once.
Speaker 1: Thank you, you keep continuing, you keep going.
Speaker 2: Are you happy I didn't mention Taylor. We can go
Speaker 2: on with you know, it's sister peg. Let's go into
Speaker 2: our what would Taylor Swift do. I'm sorry, this is
Speaker 2: our segment what would us, Sister peg do? Our weekly
Speaker 2: segment where we direct you towards an organization, a blog, post,
Speaker 2: a book, something to give you more info about what
Speaker 2: we talked about today, And honestly, for this episode, I
Speaker 2: kind of just wanted to direct to the Innocence Project,
Speaker 2: which works to free the innocent and prevent wrongful convictions
Speaker 2: and create fair, compassionate, equitable systems of justice for everyone.
Speaker 2: We've talked about them before, but it was it's been
Speaker 2: a while, so I just wanted to put them back
Speaker 2: in everyone's mind. They work to pass transformative state laws
Speaker 2: and federal reforms and advance the innocence movement using DNA
Speaker 2: and other scientific advancements, and help people rebuild their lives
Speaker 2: post release, which is really important, especially when we're hearing
Speaker 2: about in New York City this governor who wants to
Speaker 2: make like violent offenders not able to ride the subway anymore.
Speaker 2: It's like recidivism is already such a horrible issue. How
Speaker 2: do you expect anyone who has committed a crime, done
Speaker 2: their time to get back and reintegrate into society. They
Speaker 2: can't get to their job.
Speaker 3: But that's a side note to find it more about
Speaker 3: ongoing cases, additional information from your local innocence organization because
Speaker 3: I believe they are by state, So you can find
Speaker 3: your local innocence organization, volunteer, donate, and more go to
Speaker 3: Innocenceproject dot org, which will be posted in our story's
Speaker 3: day of this episode's release and saved forever in our
Speaker 3: WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page, which is that s
Speaker 3: messed up pod.
Speaker 2: Fuck that Governor. There's already cops and fucking military all
Speaker 2: over the trains. It is so stupid, not necessary. This
Speaker 2: is not what anyone asked for. Fuck this Governor. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but as New York I'm ever happy with any of
Speaker 2: their leaders. I just feel like it's Boso after Boso
Speaker 2: and nothing ever changes here. No. Yeah, next week we'll
Speaker 2: be doing Crush from season ten, episode twenty.
Speaker 1: It is a good one and.
Speaker 3: We have a great, great guest, a really fun guest.
Speaker 2: So you guys, yeah, you'll be shocked, surprised, gag gooped
Speaker 2: all of it. Yeah, all right, bye, bye, next get
Speaker 2: us Bye. That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 3: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 3: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 3: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 3: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 3: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and
Speaker 2: our associate producer Christina.
Speaker 3: Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest
Speaker 3: booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Koperski for our theme
Speaker 3: song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 3: to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 3: and everybody at Exactly Right Media Dundy