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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Jason Kelly, and I'm Mike Lynch and

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael Barr. And this is the Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports podcast, where we explore the big money issues in

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Speaker 1: the world of sports. Well and guys, we love talking

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Speaker 1: about things that are converging in the world of sports,

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Speaker 1: especially in the world of sports when it comes to business,

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Speaker 1: growing audiences, growing enthusiasm, globalization. We've got the perfect guy

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Speaker 1: to talk about that today. We're talking about the CEO

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Speaker 1: of the Professional Fighters League, Peter Murray. He joins us

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Speaker 1: on the line from New York. Peter, really nice to

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Speaker 1: have you with us. Good morning, Jason, Mike, Michael, nice

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Speaker 1: to be here. Well, you know, it's funny we're talking

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Speaker 1: a little bit before we started recording about the word zeitgeist,

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Speaker 1: and you're a marketer by training. It's a word we

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Speaker 1: throw around a lot at Bloomberg. Had tipped to our

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Speaker 1: colleague Tom Keane, who I think it's it's required that

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Speaker 1: he says it once a day. But I mean, this

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Speaker 1: really is a zekegeist word. If that's a word in

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Speaker 1: many ways capturing so much of the ambition and the

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Speaker 1: enthusiasm around sport. Why is that, Well, I would say

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Speaker 1: m m A is the number three sports in the

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Speaker 1: world behind soccer and basketball. You have five hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty million fans around the world and growing, so it's

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Speaker 1: the fastest growing sport. Um and half of those fans,

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Speaker 1: the five hundred and fifty million M m A fans,

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Speaker 1: they are not watching stick and ball sports. Okay, Number

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Speaker 1: one and two. They are the youngest. This is the

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Speaker 1: youngest fan base in all of sports as compared to

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Speaker 1: American football, soccer, even basketball baseball, the mean age is

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Speaker 1: pushing sixty. NFL mid fifties. M m A is even

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Speaker 1: younger than the NBA fan base. And so based on

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Speaker 1: all of those dynamics and the fact that this fan

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Speaker 1: base is not engaging on on other sports. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's really lead us my partners and I, our ownership

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Speaker 1: group and my partners three and a half years ago. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we we launched the PFL and we're doing it with distinction.

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Speaker 1: I believe we've timed it right. We have a differentiated

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Speaker 1: product versus other competitors, and that starts with our sports

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Speaker 1: season format. We're the only m m a organization in

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Speaker 1: the world that presents the sport and gives athletes an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to compete in a winning advanced regular season playoffs

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Speaker 1: in championship format, and we have a million dollars on

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Speaker 1: the line for for each winner of their weight class.

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Speaker 1: That's like, that's key differentiator. And then the second key

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Speaker 1: differentiator is innovation. There has been zero innovation in the

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Speaker 1: in the sport of m m A since the PFL

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Speaker 1: wants three years ago. Our cage is a smart cage,

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Speaker 1: proprietary technology integrated into the live broadcast and streams giving

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Speaker 1: fans context on the action I analytics fighter data. And

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Speaker 1: uh we just announced yesterday how we're going to activate

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Speaker 1: that data, and that's with our partner Draft Kings creating

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Speaker 1: new prop bets measuring strike speed, measuring kick speed, what

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Speaker 1: will becoming is biometric data. So UM, again we're really

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Speaker 1: excited about our position as co leader in the sport. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Once again, we're doing it within a world class ownership group,

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Speaker 1: a top management team that has expertise and credibility certainly

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Speaker 1: in m m A, but more broadly expertise in sports, media,

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Speaker 1: entertainment and technology. And UH we timed it right and

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Speaker 1: we put all of our capitals has been put into

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Speaker 1: the product to really like this fan base up and

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Speaker 1: set ourselves up for future growth. Well, Peter, anybody that

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Speaker 1: knows me. All you had to say was Draft Kings

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Speaker 1: sports book and I'm in And this is a great

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Speaker 1: marriage for you guys being the first official sports book

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Speaker 1: and daily fantasy partner of the Professional Fighters League. How

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Speaker 1: will that help you boost your product for the public

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Speaker 1: out there? Great question? And DraftKings we partner with leaders.

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Speaker 1: That's a big part of I'm a brand guy. Were

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Speaker 1: premium or innovative and in everything that we're doing at

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Speaker 1: the PFL from distribution, were distributed on ESPN again worldwide

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Speaker 1: leader in Sports. Every PFL event is in prime time

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Speaker 1: on both linear as well as digital. And then as

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Speaker 1: you look at the you know, the betting space here

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Speaker 1: in the US, we partner with the leader busting class

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Speaker 1: DraftKings and the opportunity there is it's not just monetizing

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Speaker 1: our feed for the data and some video and providing

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Speaker 1: sponsorship benefits to to Draft Kings. DraftKings is also a

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Speaker 1: media company. They're better company, but they're also a media company, uh,

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Speaker 1: and they're engaging broader sports fans. They're obviously catering to

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Speaker 1: the m m A fan. They have a relationship with

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Speaker 1: Draft Kings, which is great. And then we're alongside of

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Speaker 1: UFC on ESPN and we're alongside of us UFC on DraftKings,

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Speaker 1: so they will promote the PFL our season. Our fighters

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Speaker 1: are events to drive tune in and engagement on their

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Speaker 1: channels and our channels as well as you drive drives,

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Speaker 1: you know, betting engagement through innovative, creative opportunities that don't

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Speaker 1: exist with our competitors. So now fans with Draft Kings

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Speaker 1: and the PFL, m m A fans uh can only

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Speaker 1: on the PFL bet on future bets like who will

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Speaker 1: win the playoffs of the championship. Can't do that with

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Speaker 1: our competitors. Uh. You know number one and two. As

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Speaker 1: I talked about that smart cage data, it now creates

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Speaker 1: new experiences throughout fight night for the betting enthusiasts and

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Speaker 1: m m A betting in top strike speed of the

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Speaker 1: night of the fight, of the round or kick speed.

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Speaker 1: So we are fueling innovation and partnering with with the leader.

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Speaker 1: The DraftKings will help us throw the lead for sure.

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Speaker 1: Hey Peter, it's Mike up in Boston. Um, so give

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Speaker 1: me can you expand on that on the prop bets

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Speaker 1: while the boat is going on, the matches going on,

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Speaker 1: Like you said, punch speed, what are some of the

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Speaker 1: other unique prop bets that that could happen that you

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Speaker 1: could bet on during a match. Well, we're working with

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Speaker 1: Draftings as I mentioned earlier. You know, you have standard beds,

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Speaker 1: you have future bets, and you have you know, prop

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Speaker 1: bets so on. On future bets, we have this opportunity

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Speaker 1: to really leverage the season format. No difference then the

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Speaker 1: suite of offerings that DraftKings is executing with the nfoul

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Speaker 1: with the NBA on outcomes of a regular season, outcomes

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Speaker 1: of the playoff, outcomes of a champ and ship um

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Speaker 1: um you know for you know, favorite teams and in

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Speaker 1: this case favorite athletes so to speak. Uh So you

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Speaker 1: you'll see an expansive amount of engagement and action on that.

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Speaker 1: And then as I mentioned, smart Cage profess leveraging our

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Speaker 1: our unique data system. And so Peter talked to us

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Speaker 1: about sort of the the expansion from a global perspective,

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Speaker 1: because I do think that that's something that's that's underappreciated

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Speaker 1: and As someone who has worked UH in and around

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Speaker 1: sports for your entire career, I think you understand more

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Speaker 1: than anyone the challenge of becoming a truly global sport.

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Speaker 1: Tell us more about that, because obviously everybody has that ambition,

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Speaker 1: few are able to achieve it. How do you pull

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Speaker 1: that off and how do you build something that can

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Speaker 1: be a truly global product? Great question. I mean, we're PFL,

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Speaker 1: We're a We're a global media ORGANI nation, you know,

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Speaker 1: from out of the game, and starting with our product,

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Speaker 1: half of our fighter roster comes from out or from

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Speaker 1: outside the US, and that's by design. It's highly curated.

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Speaker 1: Uh this twenty one season, we have twenty two countries

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Speaker 1: represented on the roster and that helps us build an

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Speaker 1: affinity with fans in in those markets outside the US

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Speaker 1: where our fighters come from. So that's number one to

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Speaker 1: distribution UM PFL. Not only we distributed UH here in

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Speaker 1: the US and getting paid for our media rights by

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Speaker 1: a premium partner like ESPN, we have over thirty media

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Speaker 1: deals with some of the top media companies distributing our

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Speaker 1: live product and ancillery product outside the US, giving US

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Speaker 1: coverage of the PFL season. Uh so a hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty countries. So check, you know, check the mark on product.

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Speaker 1: It's uniquely global and international and it's very much an

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Speaker 1: Olympic like experience. Two on distribution, quality distribution partners in

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Speaker 1: sports that you know, top media networks and the regions

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Speaker 1: and the territories were distributing giving US coverage to a

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty countries. Other sports properties are challenged with

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Speaker 1: that because their product is uniquely North America UM, and

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Speaker 1: I would say NFL has its challenges and and and

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Speaker 1: because it's not Olympic sports, you know, to there, it's

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Speaker 1: it's not executed on the ground. There's they're sampling of

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Speaker 1: product to stoke distribution. But we will be expanding. So

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Speaker 1: the third point is expanding events starting in twenty two

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Speaker 1: UM and staging those events outside the us UH to

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Speaker 1: further engage fans and open up new new market opportunities.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something you said earlier

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Speaker 1: about the youth of the audience, and as a geezer,

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Speaker 1: my my young sons schooled me. We were we were

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Speaker 1: playing games, board games over the weekend, and as we're

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Speaker 1: playing the board games, both of my sons are on

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Speaker 1: their cell phones and they're trying to follow the fight

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Speaker 1: that's going on. I said, you know, well, what about

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Speaker 1: the baseball game? And of course they said, okay, old man,

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Speaker 1: here's some garratl for you. And my point is this

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Speaker 1: is the whole evolution of this sport that you have

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Speaker 1: that youth. How can this sport reach out to old

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Speaker 1: man jarratal bar and and come into this sport and

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Speaker 1: become a bigger fan. No, hey, that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: great question. And m M A just doesn't only appeal

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Speaker 1: to that youth demo. And we have such a solid

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Speaker 1: males eighteen to thirty four, it's really the sweet spot.

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Speaker 1: But more broadly, how do you turn on what I

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Speaker 1: would call casual fans of MMX. It's the sports season's format.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I'll go back to ZiT guys. You

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Speaker 1: know the word that was thrown around earlier. You cannot

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Speaker 1: turn on a media platform on ESPN, any platform, whether

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Speaker 1: it's linear digital. You know, you're going on online without

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Speaker 1: getting literally hit, you know, no pun intended with m

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Speaker 1: M A action, you know, previews, highlights and live products.

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Speaker 1: And so the casual fan wants to get involved. How

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Speaker 1: do they get involved? And because professionals in our name

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Speaker 1: because of the principles that we have where it's when

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Speaker 1: it's a meritocracy for athletes, it's a person format for

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Speaker 1: the NFL, for n d A, for the e p L,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's a regular season, it's problematic fly off

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Speaker 1: in championship. So what does that mean. It's easy to follow,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, you you get on board and follow

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Speaker 1: your favorite teams or athletes compete fight their way through.

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Speaker 1: And so we believe that this is the format that's

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Speaker 1: frankly will helped grow the sport and bring casual fans

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Speaker 1: on and and you know, make no mistake, UH, it

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Speaker 1: also is UH is an opportunity for that underserved avid

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Speaker 1: m m A fan base because they're looking for access

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Speaker 1: to more quality mm A. They don't have that today.

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Speaker 1: You think about basketball basketball fan six thousand games with

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Speaker 1: the NBA and n C double a product six thousand, Okay,

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Speaker 1: in m m A today with USC PFL now is

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Speaker 1: number two. And I'll include Bellot Tour and that's there's

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Speaker 1: only seventy events global events, mind blowing. So you know

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Speaker 1: this fan UH, and fights don't have to be just

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Speaker 1: on Saturday night. You know, a pay per view transaction

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Speaker 1: or a one off on linears, there's seven days of

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Speaker 1: the week right and and twelve months of the year

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Speaker 1: where they want access to consume and engage quality content.

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Speaker 1: And my partners on I and WE we there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of copycat product around the world to you know,

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Speaker 1: our competitors, which is based on an old boxing model,

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Speaker 1: and so we looked at the space, you know, as

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Speaker 1: a challenger branded disruptor. We saw things were good listeners. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we've talked to the athlete, what kind

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Speaker 1: of alternative are you looking for, We talked to distribution

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Speaker 1: and media, we talked to fans, and that's how we've

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Speaker 1: developed you know, this this PFL format and model and

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Speaker 1: and why it's so successful and and what I could

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Speaker 1: tell you for the athlete. You know, PFL, we we

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Speaker 1: we have top athletes in the world. We've proven that

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Speaker 1: we create stars. So in this season one, fans are

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Speaker 1: gonna get to see Kayla Harrison was being number three

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Speaker 1: mm a UM woman's professional in the world. She's the

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Speaker 1: number one in the women's one fifty five weight class.

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Speaker 1: He's eight no uh, she's a champion and by the way,

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Speaker 1: she's a two time Olympic gold medalists. She's a great

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Speaker 1: story and she's great for the sport, and we we

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Speaker 1: developed Kayla into the sport. We just recently announced Claressa Shields,

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Speaker 1: another Olympian, two time Olympic gold medalists in the US

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Speaker 1: in boxing. She's the only man or woman to do

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Speaker 1: that in US Olympic history. And she also holds four

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Speaker 1: world titled professional belts in boxing. And now she wants

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Speaker 1: to be a two sports champion and and compete in

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Speaker 1: both boxing as well as uh m m A and

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Speaker 1: no difference than Bo Jackson or Dion Sanders. And that's

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Speaker 1: her goal and we're creating that opportunity for her and athletes.

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Speaker 1: So we've we've demonstrated we can create stars in the

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Speaker 1: PFL because we're we are in the talent game for sure.

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Speaker 1: We've also demonstrated that we can recruit stars. So we

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Speaker 1: just signed Anthony Pettis, who is a pay per view

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Speaker 1: needle mover in m m A. He came over from

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Speaker 1: the UFC and he's in his prime and he wants

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Speaker 1: to take on the challenge of taking down a new belt,

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Speaker 1: fighting potentially four times over seven months, and and to

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Speaker 1: uh take down that million dollar purse plus the belt. Uh,

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Speaker 1: same thing with Sabrizi over Doom. I call him the

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Speaker 1: Tom Brady of m m A. You know, he's a

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Speaker 1: guy who's forty years old. He's still banging today beating

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Speaker 1: the young bucks and uh and still has a lot

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Speaker 1: of fire and game left. And he's come over and

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Speaker 1: he's literally the greatest heavyweight of all time in m

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Speaker 1: m A. He also came over from the US State

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Speaker 1: and then Bellatour. We have Bellotour's welterweight champion, their face,

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Speaker 1: Lary McDonald. He makes his season to view this year.

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Speaker 1: So what does that tell you? It tells you that

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Speaker 1: fighters are looking for an alternative that they did not

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Speaker 1: have before. And I've been in sports for twenty five

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Speaker 1: years and don't matter the sport, whether it's m m

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Speaker 1: A or football or soccer or basketball, athletes want three things.

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Speaker 1: Number One, they want to compete against the best competent pitition. Too,

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Speaker 1: they want to compete on the largest stage. And three,

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Speaker 1: they want a clear shot and transparency of what it

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Speaker 1: takes to be champion. And on that third point, no

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Speaker 1: one else offers that other than the PFL. You should

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Speaker 1: talk to m m A athletes. They couldn't tell you

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Speaker 1: what they need to do, uh, you know, competing in

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Speaker 1: other promotions to become champion. I don't know how anyone

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Speaker 1: a professional athlete manages their career and controls their their

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Speaker 1: fate to a degree. So we offered uniquely that opportunity

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Speaker 1: to athletes. We offer an opportunity to make more money

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Speaker 1: as well and as well as earn your way. It's

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Speaker 1: really simple when an event losing golf, and it's a fun,

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Speaker 1: you know, narrative as a marketer that you play up

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Speaker 1: and not only you get the athletes to lean in,

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Speaker 1: but you get fans filling in. I'm proud to say

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Speaker 1: that Kayla Harrison is one of our own up here

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Speaker 1: in Greater Boston. H she is, in fact, that's right,

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Speaker 1: She's an amazing, amazing human being and uh an athlete.

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Speaker 1: She really is. Peter, what what's the next step to

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Speaker 1: taking a big bite out of UFC. What's the next

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Speaker 1: step for you? Well, here's the beauty, guys. We don't

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Speaker 1: have to beat the USC to win. Our business thesis

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Speaker 1: is really simple. There's more room more than one leader

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Speaker 1: in this sport because of this underserved fan base. But

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Speaker 1: you know, make no mistake again like we're competitors, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're we're entrepreneurial and we're challengers. So we'll continue to

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Speaker 1: disrupt the space to focus on scale, you know, growing

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Speaker 1: the sport, advancing and growing the sport, reimagining it UH

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Speaker 1: at scale in the PFL. And what we'll do that

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Speaker 1: is expanding events. As I mentioned twenty two, fans can

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Speaker 1: expect um more expanded events and three live product offerings.

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Speaker 1: So not just our season format events, the regular season,

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Speaker 1: the playoffs in the championship, but I'm excited about launching

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Speaker 1: a emerging talent division and competition series ushering in the

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Speaker 1: next great stars of the sport. So we'll be expanding

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Speaker 1: live product with a emerging talent division, and then on

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Speaker 1: top of that, will absolutely be in the pay per

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Speaker 1: view UH and the super fight space with with with

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Speaker 1: major talent from the PFL and and and and other

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Speaker 1: major athletes coming over. So next year fans can expect

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Speaker 1: not just ten events from the PFL, but we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: be rolling out at least eighteen events and then you know,

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Speaker 1: I would say in the next three years that will double.

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Speaker 1: And so you know what will drive our growth as

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Speaker 1: a business is growing audience and engagement fueled by expanded

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Speaker 1: events existing plus expanded events UH and leveraging r I

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Speaker 1: t across every UH vertical of business. That's no, for instance,

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Speaker 1: any other major league, from UM sponsorship to licensing, UM

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Speaker 1: and digital engagement Peter. As we wrap up here, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go a little bit deeper on something that

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Speaker 1: that you've talked a little bit about, which is distribution

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Speaker 1: and consumption, especially in this new media landscape. And and

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Speaker 1: obviously it's top of mind over the past few weeks

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Speaker 1: when your old friends at the NFL signed their record

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Speaker 1: deal that included Amazon obviously on Thursday Nights being a

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Speaker 1: big step forward there. We know that broadcast rights is

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Speaker 1: underneath this UH massive controversy we're seeing in Europe this

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Speaker 1: week around the proposed Super League and then maybe a

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Speaker 1: rebooted Champions League if if the Super League doesn't come about.

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Speaker 1: What have you learned in terms of the new world

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Speaker 1: of distribution and media consumption that that you're applying in

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Speaker 1: real time to this league. Yeah, I a great question.

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Speaker 1: And we are media company and that is the number

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Speaker 1: one driver of our overall business domestically and internationally. So

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Speaker 1: you know you touched on at the NFL sports is

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Speaker 1: the most valuable content in I P period and that

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Speaker 1: is going to continue to grow. And m m A

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Speaker 1: is a massive market and it's an underserved consumer. And

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Speaker 1: these consumers are viewers of fans, represent new uh new

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Speaker 1: users or viewers to media companies, platforms, and what I

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Speaker 1: could tell you what I'm also excited about the media

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Speaker 1: landscape today and the destruction that's happening with linear and

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Speaker 1: digital and DTC. We just doubled down in the last

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Speaker 1: three years of media companies vying for quality sports rights.

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Speaker 1: Right in the last three years, there are now more

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Speaker 1: companies vying for live sports rights. And so what we've

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Speaker 1: created because of the dynamics now in m m A

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Speaker 1: in the s fan base um and now our product,

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Speaker 1: there's m m A N d uh. You know, in

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Speaker 1: the United States, m m A quality is on only

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Speaker 1: two major media networks and you know, but and we're

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Speaker 1: excited to be with the SPN and to grow with

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Speaker 1: the SPN, to grow the sport because we're playing a

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Speaker 1: role doing that outside the US, that media dynamic and

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Speaker 1: those competitive dynamics meaning you have major multiple media companies

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Speaker 1: linear and digital in every territor were in country outside

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Speaker 1: the US and they and there are many who are

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Speaker 1: um left on the sideline because our competitors are exclusive

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Speaker 1: with one media company. So now we roll in with

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Speaker 1: a premium quality product by the way, outside of the US,

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Speaker 1: built like soccer regular season, playoffs in the championship. And

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Speaker 1: so you know that there's m m A and you

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Speaker 1: know sports most valuable right m M A represents new growth,

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Speaker 1: new younger viewers and consumers, and now media companies have

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Speaker 1: an alternative as well if they were left on the sideline,

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Speaker 1: um so and and that's why the PFL is poised

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Speaker 1: to grow well, Peter, I really enjoyed catching up with

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Speaker 1: you so much going on and hope we can continue

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Speaker 1: to keep in touch because it feels like every day

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Speaker 1: there's something new coming out of you guys. Clearly the

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Speaker 1: ambition UH is deep and wide and global, as you said,

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Speaker 1: so we really appreciate the time and look forward to it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Jason, Thanks Michael. Looks forward to standards touch

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Speaker 1: and UH I hope to have you as events sometimes

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Speaker 1: love it. Oh, thank you. S By the way, we

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Speaker 1: should mention the PFL M M A season premieres this

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Speaker 1: Friday in prime time across the ESPN networks and streaming platforms.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast Stop Michael

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Speaker 1: Barr and you can follow me on Twitter at Big

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Speaker 1: Car Sports. And I'm Mike Lynch. You can follow me

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Speaker 1: at Lynch e w CVB. And I'm Jason Kelly. Follow

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Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Jason Kelly News. We're here each

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Speaker 1: and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of

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Speaker 1: money in sports. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio around the world and online wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts.