1
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,800
Speaker 1: Well, good Monday morning, Welcome to another episode of the

2
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,400
Speaker 1: Chuck Podcast. I really want to be uplifting. I'm not

3
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,959
Speaker 1: gonna lie to you, but first of all, even in

4
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 1: my even in the world of lightness, meaning my sports fandom,

5
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,280
Speaker 1: I'm feeling down in the dumps thanks to the Nats

6
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 1: getting swept by the Freakin' Marlins, the forkin' Marlins. I'm

7
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,879
Speaker 1: going to get this rant out of the way really fast,

8
00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,360
Speaker 1: but let me just say, as much as I love

9
00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 1: Davey Martinez, it's time to go. It is time to go.

10
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,520
Speaker 1: We need a house cleaning with the Gnats. It's pretty

11
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 1: clear this coaching staff and these players are not connecting,

12
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,320
Speaker 1: and he threw the players under the bus over the weekend.

13
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,559
Speaker 2: It's bad. So I say.

14
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 1: This, this is the lightest thing I'm going to talk about,

15
00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 1: because we are obviously living into some a very very

16
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 1: dark period. So if you are listening this on a

17
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,760
Speaker 1: Monday morning, it is painfully obvious. But the world and

18
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 1: this country are in desperate need of presidential leadership, and

19
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,320
Speaker 1: we're about to find out whether Donald Trump is up

20
00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,919
Speaker 1: to the moment. And I'm saying it that way because

21
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,039
Speaker 1: we almost have no choice, because I know many of

22
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 1: you don't believe he's up to the moment. I know

23
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,039
Speaker 1: many of you believe he's caused all these moments. I'm

24
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 1: a huge skeptic myself. But here's the reality. We don't

25
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: get to pick a different president just because the moment

26
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 1: feels bigger than the man in office. At least, we

27
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,479
Speaker 1: don't get to pick one yet. You only get one

28
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,399
Speaker 1: president at a time. And when you consider the two

29
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: biggest stories dominating the globe right now, growing unrest in

30
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,960
Speaker 1: the United States and a spiraling hot war in the

31
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 1: Middle East, both require someone who can lower the temperature.

32
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,120
Speaker 1: And right now there's only one person who who can

33
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 1: do this if he so chooses, and it is Donald

34
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 1: John Trump. Ironically, he may be more inclined to try

35
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 1: to turn the temperature down overseas before he ever considers

36
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 1: that doing it here at home. And I'll get to

37
00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: that Sunday Night on my new program for Newsphere, the

38
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 1: app Sunday Nights with Chuck Todd. Please take a look

39
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,960
Speaker 1: get the Free trial right now you can catch up

40
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,040
Speaker 1: with the ban and interview in this My latest interview

41
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 1: is with Treta Parsi. He's written three books on Israel

42
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 1: and Iran. He's easily one of the most sober clinically

43
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 1: minded journalists and observers of that region and conflict you

44
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 1: can find deeply sourced in Jerusalem and Tehran. And he

45
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 1: made one thing clear in our conversation. There's only one

46
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 1: person who can bring this war to an end right now,

47
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,640
Speaker 1: and it's Donald Trump. Because if the American President can't

48
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 1: pull the right levers, no one else can in that region.

49
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 1: No one else can get both either Iran or Israel

50
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,920
Speaker 1: to pull back from the break here. And yet you

51
00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,800
Speaker 1: do have a situation where Trump's political base is not

52
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,960
Speaker 1: exactly looking for more political, more foreign entanglements. You could

53
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 1: argue that Trump rose to power taking over the Republican

54
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,959
Speaker 1: Party by attacking the neo conservative foreign policy of the

55
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 1: Bush Romney wing, or frankly, the Eisenhower Romney foreign policy

56
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 1: consensus that has dominated Republican politics for a couple of generations.

57
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 1: He branded Bush era interventionism as a failure, and he

58
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 1: turned much of the GOP against it. His America first

59
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,440
Speaker 1: instincts are now baked into his coalition, particularly when it

60
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 1: comes to Ukraine, for instance. And we're going to find

61
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,800
Speaker 1: out about Iran it is a different ballgame, but it

62
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 1: may be similar feelings about it. Some of Trump's biggest

63
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: donors and even some of his business partners in the

64
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:44,280
Speaker 1: region are actually strongly supportive of Israel's campaign to weaken Iran,

65
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 1: but not the active rank and file base, the ones

66
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: that buy into America First and a bit of the isolationism.

67
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,119
Speaker 1: And it's been interesting to watch Trump over the last

68
00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 1: seventy two hours. He claimed that since he is the

69
00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 1: only one, it's interesting here and this whole idea is

70
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 1: violating his America First policies. Well, he was asked this

71
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 1: earlier on Sunday and he said he was the only one.

72
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 1: He says, well, considering that I'm the one that developed

73
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,040
Speaker 1: America First, and he put that in quotes, and considering

74
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,160
Speaker 1: that the term wasn't used until I came along, I

75
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,640
Speaker 1: think I'm the one that decides that, meaning what falls

76
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,560
Speaker 1: under the American First umbrella. Now, Donald Trump, obviously no

77
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 1: student of history isn't fully either isn't aware or chooses

78
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 1: not to be aware that America First was a big

79
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 1: movement inside the Republican Party.

80
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,719
Speaker 2: In the nineteen twenties and thirties.

81
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,160
Speaker 1: So he is simply borrowing something that existed before rebranding

82
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 1: it as his and claiming no one's ever invented a

83
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: political movement like this. So the bottom line is, though,

84
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: is that what it does tell you is that he's

85
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,680
Speaker 1: going to try to whatever he ends up doing, he's

86
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: going to try to sell his base that this is

87
00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,479
Speaker 1: a good thing and that this falls under America First.

88
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: So that may explain why you've seen a bit of

89
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,600
Speaker 1: whiplash with Trump, while so him quickly praise what appeared

90
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 1: to be an early Israeli success. Right, the decapitation strike

91
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 1: on the military leadership of Iran felt like we were

92
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 1: seeing a rerun of what happened with Hesbola. But the strike,

93
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:19,280
Speaker 1: while lethal, wasn't necessarily decapitating. Right, the nuclear program remains intact,

94
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 1: and now the war threatens to escalate, and there doesn't

95
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 1: appear to be a clear exit strategy because you now

96
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,720
Speaker 1: have domestic you have domestic influences on both Iran and

97
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 1: Iran's leaders and Israel's leaders that are going to essentially,

98
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,200
Speaker 1: I think, prevent a quick walk back, not without the

99
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 1: intervention of the United States. Now here's the hard truth.

100
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,640
Speaker 1: Israel could cannot finish this mission by themselves. They lack

101
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 1: those bunk or busting capability bombs that are capable of

102
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 1: destroying Iran's underground nuclear sites. They have to get US

103
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 1: firepower to do that, and without it, this conflict I

104
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: don't know how it ends. And I'll tell you. If

105
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 1: the US gets in, how do they get out? How

106
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,520
Speaker 1: do we get out? We've been down this road before.

107
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,719
Speaker 1: Now there's a growing sense and no one really knows

108
00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 1: what's going on. Did the United States give Israel a

109
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,080
Speaker 1: green light or not? Did we think the threat of

110
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,240
Speaker 1: Israeli action would bring around to the negotiating table? Were

111
00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,480
Speaker 1: we leading around on while giving Israel space to strike?

112
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 1: Are we active players in this or were we passive bystanders.

113
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,480
Speaker 1: Whatever we were may not matter. It's what is perceived

114
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 1: and believed in the region that may matter more. Here

115
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: there's no doubt that for now, this ambiguity is intentional

116
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,800
Speaker 1: by the United States. Our government is trying to have

117
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: it both ways, cheerleading success if Israel prevails, denying involvement

118
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,840
Speaker 1: if things go sideways. In fact, that's sort of a

119
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 1: Trump staple on most things in life that he's tried

120
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 1: to deal with, and that's part of the trust deficit

121
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 1: though we're all experiencing. Middle East is long in a

122
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,599
Speaker 1: place where truth is and perception is weaponized. But now

123
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 1: that sense of confusion is creeping into our domestic life,

124
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: and I want to get to that as well. And

125
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Donald Trump's at the center of both.

126
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 1: In the Middle East, he could very well be the

127
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 1: person to broker peace, strange as that may sound, but

128
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,679
Speaker 1: here at home, it's increasingly clear he's been a driver

129
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 1: of instability, not a buffer against it. Take immigration. His

130
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 1: latest round of aggressive deportation tactics sparked protests nationwide, particularly

131
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: though in Los Angeles. But behind the scenes now he's

132
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: pulling back, pressured by agricultural and hospitality interest warning of

133
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 1: dire economic consequences for their industries. Translations, we don't get

134
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 1: our food supply without migrants, and you don't get your

135
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 1: bed made at hotels without migrants. Apparently that includes some

136
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 1: of his own backers, hotel owners, something he's familiar with,

137
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 1: and farm and the farm corporations, people who rely on

138
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,800
Speaker 1: that undocumented labor to keep their businesses afloat. Here's the

139
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,160
Speaker 1: economic reality. Farmers are reporting shortages and harvest cruz crops

140
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,080
Speaker 1: are at risk of rotting and fields. Meat processors are

141
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 1: already warning of bottlenecks, and as we head into the

142
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,320
Speaker 1: summer travel season, resorts in hotels and tourist towns are

143
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,560
Speaker 1: facing major staffing shortfalls. Guests are already noticing longer waits,

144
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 1: fewer amenities, and rising costs, all due to essentially a

145
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 1: choice in how Donald Trump's gone about deportation. And that's

146
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 1: just the political fight. It's also a supply chain crisis

147
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 1: in the making, and the president knows it. So it's

148
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,240
Speaker 1: quiet backpedaling while avoiding public acknowledgment. Sort of is a

149
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: contradiction between his populis rhetoric and his business first impulses.

150
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 1: He needs the tough talk to energize his base, but

151
00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,680
Speaker 1: he can't afford the economic fallout that comes with actually

152
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 1: falling through. In this case, the business world is cheering

153
00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: for Taco Trump. They want Trump to taco i e.

154
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 1: You know, the acronym Trump always chickens out. They're desperate

155
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,880
Speaker 1: for him to chicken out on this immigration stuff. Look,

156
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,920
Speaker 1: and considering what we went through last week and what

157
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 1: happened between Homeland Security and that security detail and the

158
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,679
Speaker 1: US Senator Alex Padilla, none of this what was a

159
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 1: net positive for him, the immigration and being aggressive with

160
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: these tactics is going to start to turn south on him.

161
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,360
Speaker 2: And then there's Minnesota.

162
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 1: Two elected Democrats are gonne down and what now appears

163
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 1: to be a politically motivated attack. The alleged shooter apparently

164
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,199
Speaker 1: had a list of dozens of names of other Democratic

165
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,320
Speaker 1: officials over seventy You would think a story like this

166
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,680
Speaker 1: would stop us all on our tracks, But in a

167
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 1: week like this, I honestly don't know if anything can

168
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 1: sort of sober us up or make us go wait

169
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 1: a minute, we've got to change something here. We still

170
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 1: have the detail, We still are looking for the details.

171
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,520
Speaker 1: As of my conversation here, we still hadn't gotten the guy.

172
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,200
Speaker 1: But there's a familiarity to this, and least of what

173
00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 1: we've known about the suspect, it has the hallmarks.

174
00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,200
Speaker 2: Of some thing we've seen before.

175
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,400
Speaker 1: The Tree of Life synagogue shooting, the country music festival

176
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,319
Speaker 1: massacre in Las Vegas in particular, both very heinous acts

177
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 1: committed by older men, middle aged men radicalized apparently online.

178
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 2: We don't quite know that about the Vegas guy.

179
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,960
Speaker 1: We do know that on the Tree of Life guy,

180
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,720
Speaker 1: and it's hard to imagine with this won't be the

181
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: case with this Minnesota assassin, with what's happening online, right,

182
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,200
Speaker 1: And look, I know there is this sense of, oh,

183
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,400
Speaker 1: you know, these guys are crazy people. Rhetoric's just rhetoric.

184
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 1: But we know crazy people get triggered by rhetoric. And

185
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: here's the uncomfortable pattern. The politically motivated violence in this

186
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 1: country has been more often coming from the right than

187
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:47,360
Speaker 1: the left.

188
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 2: Now, the right.

189
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,880
Speaker 1: Ecosystem will respond and attack me. For instance, I was

190
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 1: saying this by trying to equate violence from protests with

191
00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 1: the same violence from these radicalized assassin But the two

192
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,440
Speaker 1: are not the same. Right one is collective outrage that

193
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 1: can sometimes spiral into chaos because bad actors infiltrate the

194
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 1: other's premeditated, premeditated political murder. Ten X, I'm sorry than anything,

195
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 1: you can equate with what happened, whether you want to

196
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: equate during the George Floyd protests or what we've seen

197
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,480
Speaker 1: with these other protests, and the distinction matters a lot.

198
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,559
Speaker 1: So look, and let me accept the premise of the

199
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 1: right wing for a minute. In fact, let's say you

200
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,839
Speaker 1: are on the right and you believe the left is

201
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 1: a more violent political movement than you are. Then it

202
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 1: should be all the more reason to condemn this action

203
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 1: in Minnesota with even more vigor and more outrage, because

204
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 1: if you believe this is not becoming of the right wing,

205
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,800
Speaker 1: this is not becoming of the conservative movement in some ways,

206
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 1: there should be more outrage from the right about this.

207
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 1: A whole bunch of what about is because one of

208
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: the things that drives me batshit crazy when it comes

209
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,240
Speaker 1: to our political debate is the number of people that

210
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 1: justify their bad actions by pointing to the other side.

211
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,920
Speaker 1: Nobody seems to want to live by the adage of

212
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:18,959
Speaker 1: two wrongs don't.

213
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:19,959
Speaker 3: Make a right.

214
00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,360
Speaker 1: And look, it's pretty clear Donald Trump is not interested

215
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 1: in lowering the temperature. Let me quote from you. Let

216
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 1: me quote you what he said on Sunday when asked

217
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,000
Speaker 1: about the situation of Minnesota. The President said, well, that's

218
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,000
Speaker 1: a terrible thing. Then he's referring to Tim Walls. I

219
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 1: think he's a terrible governor. I think he's a grossly

220
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 1: incompetent person. But I may I may call him, I

221
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,079
Speaker 1: may call other people too.

222
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 2: The question was about whether.

223
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 1: He was going to call the governor of Minnesota think

224
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 1: about just let me read this statement again.

225
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 2: This is again.

226
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: In the last forty eight hours, Tim Walls finds out

227
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 1: two people he worked quite closely with were gunned down

228
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 1: by an assassin a bunch of friends. He's probably on

229
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 1: this target list as well. We don't know that for sure.

230
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,480
Speaker 1: Tina Smith, the US Senator, said she's on the list,

231
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,920
Speaker 1: but a slew of Democrats are on the list. Pretty

232
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 1: Much every elected official in Minnesota is scared assless. Okay,

233
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,679
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump says the following. I think he's a

234
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 1: terrible governor. I think he's a grossly incompetent person. But

235
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 1: I may I may call him, I may call other

236
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 1: people too. In the pre Trump era, moment like this

237
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 1: might prompt an American president to give a unifying speech,

238
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,839
Speaker 1: maybe even a prime time speech. We got to turn

239
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,599
Speaker 1: the temperature down. But the president isn't going to do this.

240
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,080
Speaker 1: It's not this president because confrontation is his comfort zone.

241
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,440
Speaker 1: Reflection is not in his rhetorical playbook, and he won't

242
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 1: accept the premise that he has contributed to this atmosphere.

243
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:51,240
Speaker 2: That we're all living in.

244
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,360
Speaker 1: Okay, I could argue and make a strong case that

245
00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:01,440
Speaker 1: he is he is the instigator here, but I'm going

246
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: to accept the premise that there are more than one instigators.

247
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,559
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. He chose to be president of

248
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 1: the United States of all Americans, and I know he

249
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 1: only wants to govern for his base, but this is

250
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 1: a moment where if he doesn't do it, we're on

251
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,760
Speaker 1: the precipice and we all are feeling this way. One

252
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 1: spark feels like it's going to set us off into

253
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 1: some explosive, horrendous moment. Now, none of this is playing

254
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 1: well for him politically. In fact, you actually saw that

255
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,800
Speaker 1: on display at as military theme birthday parade this weekend.

256
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 1: Whether was grim, crowd was thin, and the mood was flat. Meanwhile,

257
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,040
Speaker 1: the No King's protests drew thousands from coast to coast.

258
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,240
Speaker 1: A lot of those protests were also in the rain,

259
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,880
Speaker 1: and yet they showed up for those might be the

260
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,760
Speaker 1: clearest signal yet where the political energy in this country

261
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 1: is heading. And that's the thing, you know. The irony

262
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 1: here is that if Donald Trump would accept the tiniest bit,

263
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,240
Speaker 1: except the tiny his bed of the premise that he

264
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:07,440
Speaker 1: is participating and contributing to this current unstable political environment,

265
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: he could buy himself some political some political lifelines here.

266
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 1: A little bit he could, it would turn the temperature

267
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,560
Speaker 1: down and would give him an opportunity to try to

268
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,040
Speaker 1: try to actually heal politically. But he's going to go

269
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 1: down this road, and this isn't going to this isn't

270
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: going to live well. Look, I lived through this cycle myself.

271
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, I had to wake up to the

272
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 1: news of a man who mailed pipe bombs to CNN,

273
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and others. Turned out, he had

274
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 1: my face on his van literally with a group of

275
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 1: four of the reporters that were considered the quote enemy

276
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,440
Speaker 1: of the people, a phrase that of course he got

277
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 1: and was inspired by Donald Trump. It was that phrase

278
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 1: all came from him, and all of this man's rhetoric

279
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 1: came from him. I'm not saying Donald Trump ordered this

280
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:04,920
Speaker 1: crazy man to attack members of the press, democratic office holders,

281
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 1: but he is creating an environment and is inspiring weak

282
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 1: minded individuals who are a bit broken, who take his

283
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 1: words literally and seriously and in some cases act upon them.

284
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 1: And not once has this man has ever acknowledged the

285
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: role he's done in there. And you know, I had

286
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 1: to be honest, I still to this day was not

287
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 1: comforted when I got visited by the FBI inform me, hey,

288
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 1: by the way, this guy targeted you. This is what's

289
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: happening to all these elected officials in Minnesota. They're getting

290
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: a visit from the FBI to let them know he's

291
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 1: on their list. You know what all that does is dud.

292
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 1: It's like, g thanks, Now, what am I supposed to do?

293
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 1: What we just want to let you know and what

294
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 1: it is, it's the FBI doing a little cya. But look,

295
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 1: he has created an environment of violence. Right, he pardoned

296
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 1: the January sixth rioters, right if he didn't believe, if

297
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 1: he thought political violence was wrong, He never pardons those folks,

298
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,320
Speaker 1: but he sent a clear message political violence is tolerable

299
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,159
Speaker 1: if the target is your enemy. That's the message he

300
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,439
Speaker 1: sent with those pardons. And you know, you live in

301
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,359
Speaker 1: a world where you reap what you sew. And what's

302
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 1: not fair is that state representative. She didn't do this,

303
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:30,399
Speaker 1: She didn't create these conditions. This crazy man was whipped

304
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,120
Speaker 1: up and he's responding to a whipped up political environment.

305
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 1: And it's a whipped up political environment led by one man.

306
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 1: Now here's the thing he can tone it down. He

307
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 1: has the ability to do this if he wants to

308
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 1: be president of a country that doesn't hate each other

309
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: and isn't on the brink of some sort of hot war.

310
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,199
Speaker 1: But he is creating a terrible situation. And this is,

311
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's morally wrong, and it's how republics fall.

312
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,159
Speaker 1: And here's another thing, considering that the president was a

313
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 1: target himself of an assassination attempt and a second assassin

314
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 1: that seemed to be stalking him, that he could be

315
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 1: speaking to this issue with credibility, with a kind of

316
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 1: a different kind of credibility. Unfortunately, as somebody who has

317
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 1: felt this moment, and it clearly impacted him for a

318
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 1: period of time, So it almost makes it even more

319
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 1: head scratching and more frustrating that he doesn't.

320
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 2: Speak to this moment.

321
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 1: Finally, I want to end on a thought that's been

322
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,640
Speaker 1: haunting me all week. As we've witnessed some of these

323
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 1: historically horrific moments, we've entered what I call an Orwellian moment,

324
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: and easily I think the last week was the most

325
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,399
Speaker 1: Orwellian week we've lived in the Trump era. Because you

326
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 1: go online and you don't know which images are real,

327
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: You can't trust what you see what you read or

328
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: even what you think you know. In Los Angeles, manipulated videos,

329
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 1: AI generated vote photos, They spread confusion, and they did

330
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: so faster than any fact check could catch up. I mean,

331
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 1: I had to use my own network of people in

332
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 1: LA that I trust to really understand what was going on.

333
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 1: You could not trust what you saw online. And that

334
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 1: is a scary moment. And we know there are professional

335
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 1: propagandas out there. Some of them are domestic who just

336
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 1: are trying for clicks. Some are funded by foreign adversaries

337
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 1: like russ of China, north of Korea, and they flood

338
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: the zone with all of this junk. And the goal

339
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 1: is in persuasion. It's paralysis. If they can make everything

340
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: feel a bit unknowable, then nothing can be acted upon

341
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: canon And when the public no longer trusts what it sees,

342
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 1: when truth itself feels up for grabs, that's when democratic

343
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 1: systems start to wabble. We're watching that unfold right now.

344
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 1: The chaos in LA this week felt like a test

345
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 1: run for that uncertainty. And it's not just by the way.

346
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 1: I mean, listen to the garbage writer that Christy Nome used.

347
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 1: She was talking about liberating Los Angeles from some socialists.

348
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 1: What the fork is she talking about? And can you

349
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 1: imagine if Ali Mayorcis said something about liberating a Texas

350
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 1: town from its racist tendencies or something like that. This

351
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: is insane rhetoric being used by a cabinet official, and

352
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 1: not just any cabinet official, a very important one, all right,

353
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: I would you know, no offense to laborhood, but DHS

354
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: is one of the big five after Treasury, State, Pentagon,

355
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: and Attorney General, and I have that kind of sloppy rhetoric,

356
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: ridiculous rhetoric. And it was a sentence that was said

357
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 1: right before her security detailed tackled Senator Alex Badia. Anyway, Look,

358
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 1: it's not just a domestic problem. By the way, this

359
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: issue of this Orwellian moment we're living and we've had

360
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,640
Speaker 1: this same cloud of ambiguity over the role over our

361
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: role in the Israel Iran conflicts. I told you before,

362
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: did we help, did we know? Are we responsible? Nobody

363
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 1: seems to know for sure, and that ambiguity again, may

364
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: it may help short term for us politically, long term,

365
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: no one knows what's going on. This used to be

366
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: the kind of uncertainty you'd only expect in the Middle East,

367
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 1: or you might expect in Moscow or Beijing, authoritarian places.

368
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: But now it's here. It's in Los Angeles, it's in Washington,

369
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: it's in your Twitter or TikTok feed. And when the

370
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 1: public's instinct is to say I don't know what to believe,

371
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: that is when you know the democracy itself is extraordinarily vulnerable.

372
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: I don't know what to believe is a phrase you

373
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: hear all the time in Russia, all the time. So no,

374
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: this wasn't the uplifting, feel good Father's Day PostScript I

375
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 1: was hoping for.

376
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: But here we are.

377
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: The world is unstable, our country is unsettled, and the

378
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 1: one person who may be able to calm things down

379
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: is also the one person who's helped stoke this fire.

380
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: I think he might try to else the flames abroad.

381
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 1: I fear he has no interest in doing it here

382
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: at home. So on that uplifting note, I actually have

383
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: a fun and I would hope to think. Actually a

384
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: slightly more uplifting conversation. It's with Mike Pesca. He's the

385
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: man behind the gist. You may be longtime listeners of

386
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: him on Slady to Me He's like an original podcaster.

387
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: He was doing it before anybody thought it was that

388
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: cool to do it. His Gist substack is a lot

389
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: of fun, It's smart, and MY favorite thing about Mike

390
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: is that he is always asking a question. Sort of

391
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: a professional he is. When I think of somebody that

392
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: is a professional skeptic who should practice Joe who does

393
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: practice journalism sort of as a professional skeptic.

394
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: I'd like to think I do that.

395
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: I know Mike does it, and it's what I think

396
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 1: makes him so readable and so interesting.

397
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: And I think you're going to up this conversation.

398
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: Well joining me now we did a home and away,

399
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: I think is the way to do it. It's Mike Pesca, who,

400
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: of course is best known as host of The Gist.

401
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: I think of you, Mike, as sort of a podcast pioneer.

402
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're a pioneer of this, of

403
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: this day and age. I mean, you've been doing this

404
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: for more than a decade. Who else can say that?

405
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 2: Many can? They'd be lying.

406
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 3: I do think it's the longest running I guess us

407
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 3: an analysis.

408
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: You and Bill Simmons right right? If it's Newsy.

409
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: You know, Terry Gross has had a podcast version of

410
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 3: Fresh Air longer than I have. So if you take

411
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 3: all the radio shows that went into pod had a

412
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 3: podcast version in two thousand and seven or eight.

413
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 2: Sure, but doing it as a daily show news.

414
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 3: Analysis, I think it's me If not, I'll take on

415
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 3: all comers in the next.

416
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: Daily show, since there is always a daily show.

417
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: Well, hey, look, whether you're you're one of the pioneers, right,

418
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: let's let's put it in those terms. I think we'd

419
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: all accept that. I think it's fascinating. I just had

420
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: this conversation with a media reporter who was asking me

421
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: what do I make of podcasts shifting to video and

422
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, and I said, look, I'll be honest. Six

423
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: months ago, I still would have argued against video for

424
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: podcasts because what I what I liked the best about

425
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: a podcast is eavesdropping on a conversation and the idea.

426
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: And I'm a believer that once you introduce a camera,

427
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a less honest take. I'm going

428
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 1: to get a less honest version of that person. But

429
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: that is where the world is headed, and in fact,

430
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,479
Speaker 1: you will. You will not have a successful podcast if

431
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: you stick to audio only. Now, that's just it just

432
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: is what the business is. But when did this transition

433
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: take place? And where are you on it? I mean,

434
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: obviously you've you've embraced it. Was it a reluctant embrace

435
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: or or an enthusiastic one?

436
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 2: Yeah? I hate it. I gotta be honest.

437
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 3: My friend PJ Vote has a great podcast and he

438
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: doesn't want to do video because he says he wants

439
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 3: to do the best version of what he's doing, and

440
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: the best version of what he does Search Engine, which

441
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 3: is a nonfiction podcast, would be a documentary, and documentaries

442
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: are their own skill set. So he's either doing the

443
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: very best audio.

444
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: Podcast or a third rate documentary.

445
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm doing the best podcast that I

446
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 3: could possibly do, or a TV talk show with a

447
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 3: weird green curtain behind me. The curtain is going to

448
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 3: get better, you know, at some point, I swear to God.

449
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: So I also think, was this what it seems like?

450
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 3: It's what the audience demanded. If you look at audio

451
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 3: audience metrics right, videos are doing really well. And if

452
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: you look at people under thirty two, they don't think

453
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: of podcasting as an audio medium. They think of it

454
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: as a video medium. But so often it is the

455
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 3: algorithm or it is the some corporate boss that made

456
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: a decision. And what really is going on is that

457
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 3: Spotify has to creed that this is the way to

458
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 3: go because they're thinking of.

459
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: You put this on differentiate on Spotify, not YouTube.

460
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 3: That's interesting, yes, yeah, this is YouTube is benefiting from it,

461
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 3: but mostly it's Spotify saying video. There's one other aspect

462
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: I'll get into, but Spotify has said to themselves if

463
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 3: we become a video player, that's much better for business

464
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 3: because as an audio player, we're not differentiated from the

465
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 3: Apple podcast or some of the other audio podcasts out there,

466
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: but we've got video from the jump. So some of

467
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: the most popular ones, like Joe Rogan, they've always been video.

468
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: So then they started to tell everyone you got to

469
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 3: go video. I think they probably punish.

470
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: People who didn't go video. The other thing that's going on.

471
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 3: Is podcast has a terrible problem with discovery, right. The

472
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: funnel is if you get attention, maybe you got attention

473
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 3: you left NBC, people said where's Chuck, and early on

474
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: people started to find you, and to this day people

475
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: are probably saying, oh, Chuck's there. On podcasting, the funnel

476
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: in almost only works in the beginning and then a

477
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: year and two years in, how do you get attention?

478
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: It's terrible. There's no way in podcasting to kind of

479
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 3: tell people that you're out there. But video is the

480
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: one way to do it. So you have clips. I

481
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 3: only do video. I do a video of every interview

482
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 3: I do. I think we'll put this up on video

483
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: and some people will watch it. The only reason I'm

484
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: doing that is to generate clips from Instagram, so that

485
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 3: maybe someone will see this Instagram clip and say, oh,

486
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 3: Mike Pasca, Chuck Todd. That exists as what I consider

487
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 3: to be the primary product, which is audio. It's crazy

488
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: and it's algorithm driven.

489
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: It's so true and what you just described, and I

490
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: appreciate you describing it that way because it's it's.

491
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: It is, it is.

492
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: It's weird something in human nature. For whatever reason, we

493
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: won't clip on an audio clip. You send a great

494
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: exchange between you and I audio only, and it doesn't

495
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: get whether it's on a social media app or via

496
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: text or whatever. I'm this way, like, send me a

497
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: piece of video, I quickly watch it. Send me a

498
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: piece of audio. I'm like, well, let me put my

499
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: headphones in or whatever whatever it is. And so it

500
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: feels as if almost ninety percent of the reasons most

501
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: podcasts went video as well, it's the only way to

502
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: market the podcast.

503
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it has fundamentally to do with attention.

504
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: So when something has a visual component, including words, it's

505
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: vying for your attension.

506
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: It's announcing itself. It's saying, pay attention to me.

507
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 3: Probably because of the kind of animals we were on

508
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: the savannah as prey. By the way, anthropology is finding

509
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: out more and more that we're inherently prey, and most

510
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: of our motivation is we're worried about the armed anyway. Yeah, yeah,

511
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 3: we're where animals were worried about this, and the visual

512
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: is how we stay alive. The audio is a little

513
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: bit deeper. It probably activates other aspects of our brain,

514
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: but it's not as urgent visual, as urgent audio less urgent.

515
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: This used to be great, the lack of urgency in audio,

516
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 3: and I work for NPR for ten years. We would

517
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: use phrases like you know, it's a companion and it's uh,

518
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 3: and we'd have driveway moments. But it was sort of

519
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: the warm bath of attention as opposed to a tiger

520
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: is going to eat us?

521
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: Of attention.

522
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: So I do, Yeah, I do think that there's fundamental

523
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 3: difference between each medium.

524
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: And I think that.

525
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: It's have people really said, you know what, I like

526
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: audio video podcasts.

527
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: I just like them. They just appealed to me. I

528
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: don't know how many people have said that.

529
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: Maybe young people have said that, but I think it

530
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: just you can't get away from it. And in this

531
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: attention economy is also the urgency economy.

532
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's something else though. That why I think many

533
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: people wouldn't have predicted that podcasts would continue to grow,

534
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: And in some ways this is right. We're in a

535
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: second growth period because of the video component. I guess

536
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: it was probably the best way to put it. But

537
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: and maybe this is going to change as more people

538
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: do live. But I think about you doing a daily podcast.

539
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: How how did you get over the moment that you

540
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: finished your recording and then some breaking news happened in

541
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: you'r lie? Oh man, this is going to feel, you know,

542
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: because you have to get over that. Because I could

543
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: make a case that you can always find a story.

544
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: I wish we would have done this.

545
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: You can always find a reason to be How did

546
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: you get over that? And does it surprise you that

547
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: the public has it punished the podcast industry collectively for

548
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: its ability not to be in real time because it's

549
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: really not in real time. It's we are I always

550
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: say a good podcast is on the news, not necessarily,

551
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's news adjacent. Sometimes can feel on the news,

552
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily in a breaking news moment.

553
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 3: Well, it's a problem, and I don't know if it's gone.

554
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: You're framing the question. Look how much podcasting has thrived

555
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: even though this is the case.

556
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 2: I think it's thrived despite that.

557
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: I think if there was a way to be on

558
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: the news, it would be even better. And it's especially

559
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 3: true when news happens on a Sunday and I listen

560
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: to a lot of sports podcasts, and if the game

561
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: was on a Saturday and the production schedule is not

562
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: to come back to a Monday, I have to wait

563
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: two days to get my podcast discussion of the game.

564
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: I do not like that. So I think that it

565
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: is a problem. How'd I get over it?

566
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: Just when it became a parent that I was killing

567
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: my staff The first three times I said we got

568
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: to go live and it didn't really matter. But here's

569
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: what's happening we're now in an age. We are in

570
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: an age of media abundance. Abundance, but it's really commentary.

571
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: There's so much more commentary than news, and even so

572
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: much of the news is commentary, as you know.

573
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: And I don't know how much the consumer really.

574
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: Realizes that, but I think we've gotten to a ratio

575
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: that's I don't know if it's dangerous, but it's certainly

576
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: not optimal and place my due. Yeah, yeah, are more

577
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: commentary than is I think optimal?

578
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: No, it is, and it's you know, I get so

579
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: frustrated when people are even trying to pay me a

580
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: compliment that they'll say, oh, I can tell you're really

581
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: speaking your mind, and I'm like, yeah, but that doesn't

582
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: mean I'm a partisan, you know, I'm just sort of

583
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm no longer what I always say is I'm no

584
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: longer rounding the edges as much. Right for network television,

585
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: i'd have to round the edges. Sometimes it's because my

586
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: first name was meet, or sometimes because I didn't want to.

587
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: I knew whatever I said was going to reflect all

588
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: on the entire network. Fair unfair that it would, and

589
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 1: I was mindful of that. I always got irritated when

590
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: certain colleagues who hosted certain cable news morning shows didn't

591
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 1: seem to care about their colleagues and the perception that

592
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: they were creating for the rest of us that have

593
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: to do this. And so now I'm no longer rounding

594
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: the edges, right, I'm like, yeah, Joe Scarborough is the singular.

595
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: If you're looking for somebody who did the most damage

596
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: to the press and the Joe Biden story, it's Joe Scarborough.

597
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: Now, it just is maybe that was as long game

598
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: as a Republican I don't know, but it's like, I

599
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 3: don't know how else to put it right.

600
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: He was Now what I always found unfair is that

601
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: was just his opinion and it should have just been

602
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: seen as like, I don't mind that he did that,

603
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: that was an opinionated show. What I minded was the

604
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: perception that somehow this was a media driven narrative. And

605
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: it's like, no, he's a partisan. But all of that

606
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: has gotten so lost. I mean, me trying to explain

607
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: that that, hey, morning.

608
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: Joe is not this it's not a news it's more of.

609
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: A commentary thing. And you know, it's at this point,

610
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: what does the viewer see? You know, as I've always

611
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: said that Peacock is on every channel, so the viewer

612
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: just sees it all as one thing. Don't differentiate it

613
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: that much. It's true, right, newspaper headlines, whether the headlines

614
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: over an op ed or a news story, the headline's

615
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: the headline, and it's a Washington Post headline, right.

616
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: Regardless of which section of the paper. So it is.

617
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know whether it's even worth fighting

618
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: those particulars anymore in the news consumption space.

619
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 3: The last one hundred people who pointed out to me, well,

620
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 3: that's an opinion piece, not from the news section.

621
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: We're all journalists. No citizen has ever said that to me.

622
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: But was that a news piece?

623
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 3: Just the other day on the show, I did a

624
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: big story on a Guardian piece trying to say that

625
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 3: the defund movement worked well in Houston and Seattle, and

626
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 3: it clearly didn't if you look at the murder rate.

627
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: And I was like, wait a minute, is this a newspiece?

628
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 3: And I scanned it and I actually put it through

629
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: chat GPT. Is this a newspiece or is this an

630
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 3: opinion piece? And it was in the news section, and

631
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 3: then we figured out it probably shouldn't have been but

632
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 3: you're so right that no one gets the distinction. And

633
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 3: there's one of the reasons they don't get to the

634
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: distinction isn't just on the consumer. Certain outlets will sometimes

635
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 3: cordon off news and opinion, but there are almost no

636
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: outlets anymore that you would be shocked that that opinion

637
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: is being run in that outlet. There's almost no outlets

638
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: where you'd even be a little bit surprised. I think

639
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 3: The Atlantic will consistently if we stripped the title and

640
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 3: I said, where did this run, you might consistently say

641
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: that could either be in the Wall Street Journal or

642
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 3: the New York Times. So that's a little bit unique.

643
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 3: But especially before Jeff Bezos had this turn with the

644
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 3: Washington Post, where.

645
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: I know I used to think the Post was the

646
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: best of all worlds for a while, I really did, yes,

647
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: I felt like for a period the time, the Post

648
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: was its best version of itself.

649
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: And then Jeff right, because I think they were reflecting Washington,

650
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: and Washington was a town with functional Democrats and Republicans,

651
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 3: and they would sometimes talk to each other.

652
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: But when that ought to change, the Post got to change.

653
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: And now there are there are many many stories that

654
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: were in the post opinion section that were you wouldn't say,

655
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 3: oh that could run in another newspaper's opinion section who

656
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 3: had a reading of Donald Trump that wasn't caustic. So yeah,

657
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's very one of the

658
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 3: very bad trends of journalism. Also, could I just say,

659
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: when you say, I've heard you say that before, my

660
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: first name is meet as in the press, how many people?

661
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: And did you guys have a super cut in the

662
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: studio where people called you Todd by the stake?

663
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, that happened once every four shows. It did.

664
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 1: What's funny about it for me is is that actually

665
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: I grew I grew up with that because my grandfather

666
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 1: his first name was Merle and his middle name was Lynn.

667
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 2: So what do you think he preferred to be called Todd?

668
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so he actually all of his friends called him Todd.

669
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: My father had it literally, his his asociates would call

670
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: him Tom. My mother when she got into real estate,

671
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: all of she would be just referred to as Todd.

672
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: It was.

673
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: It's such a normal thing in my family that I

674
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: would It's funny you bring it up. It always seemed

675
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: to bother other people more than it ever bothered me.

676
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: It didn't.

677
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: I never I used to let I get up. The

678
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: only time I'd get annoyed is when I would get

679
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: Chuck Dodd or Chris Todd or you know, there was

680
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: a time i'd get the Chuck rob you know that,

681
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: or or but that would annoy me a little bit.

682
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: But it never bothered me. But you're so, it's so

683
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: funny how often the Todd thing happened. But that is

684
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: something I grew up with and all the time. You know,

685
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: when you grew up with two first names. I mean

686
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: I used to joke NBC we were the home of

687
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: two first names, Brian Williams, Andrea Mitchell, Chris Matthews, David Gregory,

688
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 1: Chuck Todd.

689
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: It was sort of astonishing how many of them?

690
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: You're like, joy, you know, yeah, it was like how

691
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: high that's Jen Sackey. There are no sacking the.

692
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: Right, no Madows out there anymore, you know whatever. I

693
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: once did a story on the Senate.

694
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 3: First of all, there's a good statistic how many Americans

695
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 3: have two first names? And you know senators, uh have

696
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: double the rate of two first names.

697
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 1: Interesting, So I went into the long business. I could

698
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: have I had a shot at this if I wanted to.

699
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 3: And then you could be a senator and get on

700
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: a Sunday show and call someone about their last name.

701
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

702
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: So let me let me to go back to the

703
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: timing issue of your podcast. What what's a story that

704
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: I would think belongs to your podcast that you don't

705
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: do because of timing or because of topic. What what's

706
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: something that doesn't make the cut that might surprise people?

707
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: Well, how I describe it to people is ideally it's

708
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: an op ed of the air. And okay, that's me

709
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: using these antiquated terms.

710
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: We were just done talking about it. Talking about it

711
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: right understands what an is.

712
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is a good gi just discussion is

713
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 3: subtly a debate. It's always a debate. And I'm not

714
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: taking the other side of the debate. I'm not a partisan,

715
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 3: but I want them to explain, not just there are

716
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 3: great interviews that the question to be asked and answered

717
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: is and then what happened or what happened next? That's

718
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: a great interview. It's not a great gist interview. A

719
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 3: great gist interview is why.

720
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are Larry King and Charlie Rose I always

721
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: thought were underrated interviewers. Because they were so good at

722
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: at just sometimes saying and then what.

723
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: You know? And why is why is still the best question?

724
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: But if it's we don't do a lot of history

725
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: unless there's an angle to it, bringing it up to

726
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 3: the present, or let's re examine why.

727
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 2: People thought that.

728
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: But I would love to if I had a show

729
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 3: that wasn't to just I do a ton of history,

730
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 3: and when we do history podcasts or history interviews, people

731
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 3: love them. But I do think it's because I'm engaging

732
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 3: a little bit of a debate.

733
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 2: What's a if you had more bandwidth, what's a what

734
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: would you be doing?

735
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: Uh?

736
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question.

737
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 3: I have two shows besides this one, but they're sort

738
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 3: of shows within a show. And what is called funny

739
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 3: you should mention it's where I interview comedians sort of

740
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: about their theses. You know, comedians being the new philosophers,

741
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 3: and we deferred lots of our punchlines insights.

742
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: It's been that way for decades.

743
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I've always dot comedians were comedians.

744
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 1: Stand up comedians were always the most well read people

745
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: you'd ever meet.

746
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 3: They read more than all Yeah, a lot of times

747
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 3: and a lot of times not formally educated, and they

748
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 3: felt bad about that, and then they became auto di dacks.

749
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: They're great love I love them. I love the way

750
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: they think.

751
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 3: But I think since you know, definitely pre George Carlin

752
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 3: and Richard Pryor, no one was looking to comedians for

753
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 3: inside And then there were the niche Yeah, and then

754
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: there was Mort Saul who read a newspaper on stage.

755
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 3: I don't know how funny it was. And then Lenny

756
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: Bruce and this all changed. But I do think there

757
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 3: was a story in the either Late Night Now that

758
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 3: must have been the odds where it just quoted Chris

759
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 3: Rock as an expert on the black experience, and maybe

760
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 3: said comedian Chris Rock, but he was there for his insight.

761
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 3: And that's when I said, Okay, they're pundits now, you know,

762
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: they're pundits with punchlines.

763
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: So that's one of the shows that another thing, have

764
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: you ever done it? Have you ever done stand up comedian?

765
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 3: You know when I was in college, I did, and

766
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: so the read my and my kids do it, and

767
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 3: the reason that I'm not good at it could be

768
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,479
Speaker 3: many things, right, but the big one is a stand

769
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 3: up comedian will do when you see his act it's like,

770
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 3: oh my god, what fresh insights. But of course they'd

771
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 3: have done this hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times.

772
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 3: So I'd rather do a show every day and have

773
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 3: a couple of hits and say to myself, you know,

774
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: if I had more time to work that over, it

775
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: could be a fantastic it could be an a plus.

776
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 3: But I'd rather have a string of, let's hope, a minuses.

777
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 3: This is also one I'm my problems with. When I

778
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 3: worked for NPR, I was on I did mostly sports,

779
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: and I would crank out a lot of stories because

780
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 3: when you cover the World Series, you do two stories

781
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 3: every day, and then you cover the Super Bowl, and

782
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 3: that's great.

783
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 2: I love the pace of that.

784
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: But there was a certain kind of NPR reporter as

785
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: epitomodz by this American Life for cereal, where man, did

786
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 3: they love going over their tape and with a lapidary

787
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 3: fineness bringing out that one cut of sound. Some of

788
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 3: my best friends are great at this. I had no

789
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 3: patience for that. So, yeah, this was the problem with

790
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 3: stand up. It's you really have to.

791
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: Work it over and over and over again. You don't

792
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: want to be a refiner.

793
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: You're like sort of an entrepre you want to you

794
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: want to be, you want to break the mold quickly

795
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: type of thing.

796
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

797
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: Adam Carolla has this great analogy where he says, we're

798
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 3: either a factory or a warehouse, right, and the factory

799
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 3: is putting out content and the warehouse is storing it

800
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 3: and maybe crafting it. So he sees himself more of

801
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 3: a factory. A stand up comedian is more of a warehouse.

802
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 3: I'd say maybe a curator if they're really good. All right,

803
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: so you do that Moselle on the other show, the

804
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 3: show within a show. Yeah, it's called Not Even Mad,

805
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: and this is there's an interesting backstory there.

806
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: So I would always listen.

807
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 3: I do always listen to all these podcasts, and the

808
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: standard form if it's not two people being interviewed, three

809
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 3: guys talking, not always guys, that's changed a little bit,

810
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 3: but let's call it three guys talking and agreeing with

811
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 3: each other, right, it's three guys from the Bulwark or

812
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 3: three guys from the Dispatch, or three guys from Commentary,

813
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 3: and three guys from Pod Save America. And I can't

814
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: I listened to all these shows, and I can't tell

815
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 3: you how many times I've listened to it.

816
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: As you listen to it in speed sped up one

817
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: and a half speed Yeah, I'm two and a half

818
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: and a half Wow.

819
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah wow.

820
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 3: And the app my app of choice, also cuts out silences.

821
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 3: We could listen, by the way, much faster than we do.

822
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 3: So yes, so maybe you've had this this thought. Also,

823
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: I listened to the three people at the commentary podcast

824
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 3: talking about whatever they're talking about, and John pod Hortz

825
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 3: makes a good point, and then I'll listen to the

826
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 3: three guys at Pod Save America talk about what they

827
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: are talking about, and luckily it's another job.

828
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 2: You know, John love It or John Favreau makes a

829
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: good point.

830
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: But Favreau and love It are always agreeing with each other,

831
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: and pod Horrits and his guys are always agreeing.

832
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 2: What what if we took a love It and put

833
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 2: him next to a pod Horrit.

834
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 3: So this was my idea, right, this is my idea

835
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 3: to have a liberal and a conservative talk And the

836
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 3: first iteration of it didn't really work because of well

837
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 3: it was called not even mad, but there was a

838
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: little bit of madness. And so now instead of I

839
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 3: do think that for these shows to have a lot

840
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 3: of traction, you get to know the host and the panelists,

841
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 3: and that would be ideal. But I'm just changing panelists

842
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 3: every week, and it's, uh boy.

843
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: It's a tough I'm I'm rooting for you on that,

844
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: but the algorithms really fights you on that.

845
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: It really is hard.

846
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm watching this myself, right, I'm trying

847
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: to build a specific I do not want to pick

848
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: a side, right. Megan Kelly made a decision and she

849
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: built a big audience quickly. That's one way to do it.

850
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: I kind of want to, you know, I sort of

851
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: believe in the I want to get it. I'm going

852
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: to do it my way and hopefully it'll be a

853
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: more durable audience. It's actually what worked for me on

854
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: Twitter versus the way others did.

855
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: It, and and so i've i'm I'm mindful of that.

856
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: But there are just the distribution models don't reward left this,

857
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: left right.

858
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: It's hard to find an audience. It says they they.

859
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: Want that, and it's I don't know. I don't know

860
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: whether that's the algorithms speaking or whether that's reality.

861
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 2: I do think it's mostly reality.

862
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 3: I think the algorithms figured out what works because the

863
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: audience told them. And I think that there's a niche

864
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 3: for it, but it is a niche, and I hope

865
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: you come to dominate the niche. And I've got my

866
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 3: little toe hold in the direction.

867
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: It's all niches. You're right, really, you're right. It's a

868
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: series of them. I do think.

869
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: I think it's mostly like when you listen to a

870
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: radio station. Remember kids, there was a thing called radio.

871
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 3: There's no radio station that plays a little country, a

872
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 3: little hip hop, and a little classic rock.

873
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 2: You have to have a format.

874
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: And the format of podcasts is this is a conservative podcast,

875
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: this is a liberal podcast. The exception are the ones

876
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 3: that are neither liberal or conservative but are actually more

877
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 3: radical than either.

878
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 2: Maybe not consistently left.

879
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: And right, but I think you know, uh Sargar and

880
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: Breaking Points, Crystal Ball, that's in that category. Maybe I

881
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 3: guess you could dub them, you know, far left, but

882
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 3: so far left that there's a lot of right to them.

883
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 2: But they're also have a consistent, yeah, consistent format.

884
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: Well, look, I I look, I think I don't want

885
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: to do too much more on sort of the business

886
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: of what we're doing, but it does feel like you

887
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: you have such a knowledge of this and you've been

888
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: are you you know, are you one of those folks?

889
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: Do you think is there more change in the next

890
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: five years or less of it? You know, we're all

891
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: preparing for radical transformation, and usually sometimes if everybody's betting

892
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: on that, it sometimes doesn't become self fulfilling.

893
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 3: Right in terms of media, in terms of politics, in

894
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 3: terms of what media or media. In terms of media,

895
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: I would expect I would expect there to be a

896
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 3: lot of change.

897
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 2: I would expect AI to change things greatly.

898
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: I would we gotten to this place where there used

899
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 3: to be a lot of inefficiencies and now there's a

900
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 3: war on inefficiency and it's working. But you know, inefficiency

901
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,280
Speaker 3: in many systems is a really good thing. Like if

902
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 3: the in the animal kingdom, inefficiency is a mutt and

903
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 3: by the way, the healthiest dogs.

904
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 2: That's right.

905
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 1: And what it's funny you say that you know why

906
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: our voting system is so secure because it's inefficient, because

907
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: it's methodical, because there's these paper ballots that have to

908
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: follow this, and if we it is actually something that's

909
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: completely inefficient. But if you made it efficient, you'd actually

910
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: send a message of life. Lack of confidence in the

911
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: system we wouldn't trust it. I'm going to give you

912
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: an advision one makes it more trustworthy.

913
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 3: I'll tell you one right in your wheelhouse. So in

914
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 3: the as you I'm probably telling you something you know.

915
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 3: But one hundred eighty years ago, the political science movement

916
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 3: du jore, started by and led by A. Shatschneider, was

917
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 3: we have these political parties and they're inefficient. It really

918
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 3: got the political scientists upset. The parties need to sort

919
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 3: according to ideology. It doesn't make sense to have all

920
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 3: these conservatives in the Democratic Party. Then that happened, not

921
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 3: because the political scientists said it, but this is what

922
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: the political scientists wanted, and it was a total.

923
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: Be careful disasters for Oh yes, I talked about this

924
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: all the sorting, oh one hundred percent. The lack of

925
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: ideological diversity inside the two parties. I mean, you and

926
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: I grew up with liberal Republicans working with conservative Democrats,

927
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: with the populist Democrats in the Midwest work and it.

928
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 3: Was public living from when FDR had to work it

929
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 3: out with Theodore Bilbo and the very Democrats.

930
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: But I and I.

931
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: Grew up with a with a basically a conservative Democrat

932
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: who left the Party and would say, well, Sam Nune

933
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: would be.

934
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: A Republican in New York.

935
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: Would be always he would always say that, like, you know,

936
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: that's why I like because I'd always said I thought

937
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: that I thought you were Republican. He said, well, Sam,

938
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: none would be a Republican if he were in Iowa.

939
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: To be a Republican, you know, he's just a Democrat

940
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: in the South because you have to be in order

941
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: to vote right because at the time there was no.

942
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: There weren't many registered Republicans. So it is.

943
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: But you're right, I think that lack of ideological you know,

944
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: the conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans are extinct, and that's

945
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:46,959
Speaker 1: what we miss.

946
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: Yes, And I was just I was just in Seattle,

947
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 3: and I was spending some time with a very top

948
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 3: political consultant. And he's because he makes a living, he's

949
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 3: a Democrat. I don't have to say he's a Democrat Seattle.

950
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 3: But he bemoans the fact that the Republican Party is

951
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: pretty much non existent and all they could do is

952
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 3: run some protest candidates who are way out there ideologically

953
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 3: and never have a chance for winning. This is another

954
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 3: pretty bad aspect of monopolies.

955
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: Monopolies are bad for economies. Doopolies are not great to economies,

956
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: but monopolies are worse. And what's what's a what's a what?

957
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 2: You know?

958
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: The political economy that has become a monopoly in rural

959
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: America for red and a monopoly in urban America for

960
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: blue has been bad for the voters. It's just been bad,

961
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: been bad for diversity of thought. It's been bad for

962
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: new ideas, you know, and it's a that's a problem.

963
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 3: And your other business, or your main business, which is media,

964
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 3: has been waylaid by efficiency. Because a newspaper used to

965
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 3: have all these advertisements. And the point is, you knew

966
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: you were throwing away ninety percent of your advertising dollar,

967
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 3: and everyone who took out a want to add, nine

968
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 3: point nine percent of the people weren't in the market.

969
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: For a boat.

970
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 3: So is this inefficient way of hitting a lot of

971
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 3: people than when the Internet and especially the Google out

972
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 3: algorithm got really efficient, great for advertising, pointless for newspapers,

973
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 3: they were left with maybe cars and supermarkets and not

974
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 3: even that because you're only on the move to buy

975
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 3: a car once every seven years. Yeah, So efficiency, So

976
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 3: to go back to your answer, we're going to get

977
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 3: more efficient there's no way that the media ecosystem is

978
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 3: not going to get more efficient. And from what I see,

979
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 3: efficiency more often has costs than benefits, except for the

980
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 3: very specific person who is served by the efficiency.

981
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: All Right, I got to ask about.

982
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: The comic books because if you look carefully, you look

983
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: carefully behind me.

984
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: The Roy Campanella is.

985
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: Actually a portrait of one of his baseball cards. Yeah,

986
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: from tops in the early early fifties. I'm a baseball

987
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: card guy. Are you a comic guy?

988
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 3: I'm probably more of a baseball card guy, But you

989
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 3: know what I am. I may I just moved my

990
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 3: parents out of the house that not only they lived

991
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 3: in for fifty years, that I was literally born in

992
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 3: the driveway of. And so now I have all these

993
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 3: baseball cards and comic books that I gotta sell because

994
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: I have no room. So when you have no room

995
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 3: for something, you put a Howard the Duck comic on

996
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 3: the wall.

997
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: I do like nice Howard the Duck. Nice nice Well.

998
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: I worked at a baseball card store.

999
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 3: That was my first job, and it was the era

1000
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 3: of Matt I guess I learned about bitcoin then because

1001
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 3: Kevin Seisser rookies were selling for like seventy dollars if

1002
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: you remember that funny use.

1003
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you referred to it as bitcoin, because

1004
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: that's been my analogy is tell me how it's not

1005
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: like I have these mic I have a stack of

1006
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: Mike Trout Rookie cards. Can I Can I buy something

1007
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: with them directly? No, I've got to trade it in

1008
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: for cash, and then I can. And what's the difference

1009
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: between my mic trop baseball card and bitcoin? And when

1010
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: you throw that out there at a crypto person and

1011
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it's probably the same thing.

1012
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then if you get into blockchain, I don't know,

1013
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 3: Ray Fossey blocking the plate chain, I don't know what

1014
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 3: our analogy could be, but yeah, I remember I was

1015
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 3: listening on NPR and then the beginning of the Ukraine

1016
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: War there was a story about how it's fun to

1017
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 3: via bitcoin and isn't it great that bitcoin can get

1018
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 3: this money to the Ukrainian fighters, and like that seems

1019
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 3: much less efficient than a bank account. Like I understand,

1020
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: you have this interesting thing in the news called the Ukraine,

1021
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 3: the War on Ukraine, and then you have this thing

1022
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: called bitcoin. I think there are more layers in between.

1023
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: Then are just bank account that works.

1024
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 1: Look, I do I accept the premise it's a little

1025
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: bit easier to hide money. And when you're funding a

1026
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: war and an insurgency, you need to hide stuff.

1027
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I get that the block Maybe that's the.

1028
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: What's hell full in a moment, But most of the time,

1029
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: if you're something that is able to hide transactions or money,

1030
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 1: that's usually not a net positive for society.

1031
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 2: That's usually a net Yeah, that is true.

1032
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 3: I mean my suspicion is mostly and by the way,

1033
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 3: I've lost out on a lot of money because of

1034
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: my suspicion. But there are two things that these cryptocurrencies

1035
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 3: are supposed to do, and there are exact odds with

1036
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 3: each other.

1037
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: Right, this is almost like Donald Trump.

1038
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 3: The great thing about tariffs is that they will both

1039
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 3: give us money in the treasury and suppressed trade. No,

1040
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 3: they can't do both. But the one thing they're supposed

1041
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 3: to do is be a great store of value. I

1042
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 3: get the intellectual case for that. But the other thing

1043
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 3: why everyone loves them is they're going up to the moon. Now,

1044
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 3: nothing that doubles or triples in value is a great

1045
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 3: store of value if it's always if it's also being

1046
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 3: traded as the priceiest commodity ever made.

1047
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, I mean like I remember as a kid.

1048
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 1: Growing up when I think the Hunt Brothers tried to

1049
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: corner the silver market thinking it was an underutil commodity,

1050
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: and it's this just feels like it's going to end badly.

1051
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: And the question is how many Americans are going to

1052
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: get stuck holding the crypto bag when this happens, because

1053
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: we know the super wealthy are going to are not

1054
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 1: going to be the ones hold in the bag. It's

1055
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: going to be the everyday people. Yeah, just crazy housing.

1056
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 2: So there's an example.

1057
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 3: Would you would you say that in that way when

1058
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 3: your first name was meet?

1059
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 2: That's interesting?

1060
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: So I feel like no, because you know I would

1061
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: be you know, then I would be blamed for you know,

1062
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: some other entities inability to book so and so or

1063
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: I came across, and so you worry about that. And

1064
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 1: it's like I will just say I you know, I

1065
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: would sometimes speak out on some things and then someone

1066
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: would say, hey, we're trying to book so and so,

1067
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, try not to do that again type of mindset.

1068
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: And it's like, look, I'm a team player and I

1069
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: get it. You know, look you know this this balance

1070
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: between you know, I'm always careful. I don't respect access

1071
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: only journalists, but I respect the need for access, right,

1072
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: there's a there's a fine line between that, and I

1073
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: think you can a good journalist draws a distinction. But

1074
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: but sort of I kind of view it similarly on

1075
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 1: that So I understand it from that, But I certainly

1076
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: feel better about not asking permission, right, And I know

1077
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: so for instance, like I've I've been very I've been

1078
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: very straightforward, but I've been tough on Biden's for the

1079
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: Bidens for a couple of years, and you know, they

1080
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't return any of my calls. Well, I understood that,

1081
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: Like I made a you know, like and that's okay.

1082
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: I don't They don't have credibility with me, so why

1083
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 1: would I want to interview them anyway. So I'm okay

1084
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: with that, And I think that that's sort of that's

1085
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: that if you're going to burn something, you better feel

1086
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: comfortable burning it.

1087
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, As an example, I don't know if they're the

1088
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 3: best example of someone who will punish a journalist for

1089
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 3: not doing this story they want because they were in

1090
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 3: the mode of we only want to talk to one

1091
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 3: or two people.

1092
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: They were very much in the mode of our way.

1093
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 3: Our theory of the case is to do almost no interviews,

1094
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 3: and when we do, maybe do it on morning Joe.

1095
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: I think your listeners to the Chuck podcast get this.

1096
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 3: But what maybe people don't when they criticize you for

1097
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 3: being or when they question your partisanship and are you

1098
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 3: able to be partisan? You and I have opinions and

1099
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 3: strong opinions, but you know what wake us up in

1100
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 3: the middle of night. I think that's true for you.

1101
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 3: I know it's true for me. The thing I won't

1102
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,919
Speaker 3: be shouting is you got to vote for this guy.

1103
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: That's not where my strong opinions lie. It's more like

1104
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 3: looking at a system and we're being crazy when it

1105
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 3: comes to whatever it is MMT or funding.

1106
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: Well, look I look my rant. Look the current podcast

1107
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 2: that I have up. One of them.

1108
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: My rant this morning was, you know, was how poorly

1109
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: Trump and Musk executed Doge. But the idea was a

1110
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: really good one and there was a better way to

1111
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: do this, and sort of like it actually was empowering

1112
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: because I realized this is what you do I think

1113
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: extraordinarily well and what I hope to do better, which

1114
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: is explain why. Look, you know this is the criticism

1115
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: is in execution. The criticism isn't in ideology. And so

1116
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: my biggest criticisms of Trump are execution. This is just

1117
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: a terribly incompetent administration in just doing the basics doesn't

1118
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: mean his ideas. I'd like to see more manufacturing back

1119
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: in America. There is a systematic way I had to

1120
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: Orange cass On. The way he would have implemented this

1121
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: tariff regimen might have had a better shot at triggering

1122
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: better trade deals and not shaking up the markets. But

1123
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: that's not the way Donald Trump did it. He did

1124
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: it in an incompetent way. Making government more efficient and

1125
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: more modern. We need to update the infrastructure of government

1126
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: the same way. You can't have the same bridge that

1127
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: you're going over from the nineteen fifties with today's traffic patterns.

1128
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: It's the same thing with various government agencies. But dose

1129
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: was a poorly executed version of this, and in fact,

1130
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: the dirty little secret is those will cost the American

1131
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: taxpayer more money than it saved because of all the lawsuits,

1132
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 1: all the restoration of benefits, all the restoration of contracts

1133
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,479
Speaker 1: that got unconstitutionally.

1134
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: Nick paying people for ninety days not to work and

1135
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 3: then filling them in.

1136
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: So we've just cost us. And yet the irony is,

1137
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, had bipartisan buy in. There was a whole

1138
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: bunch of Democrats. I mean, this is what really frustrates

1139
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: me about the mindset of Trump and Maga, which is

1140
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: they won now will never work with the other side,

1141
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: when every other president of my lifetime said, hey, you know,

1142
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: the best way for me to be to get something

1143
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: done is to And it's sort of two motivations. One,

1144
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: I can divide the other already by getting some of

1145
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: them to work with me, and it guess what, it

1146
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: helps me in the macro it's better for the country.

1147
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,439
Speaker 2: Oh and I divide my.

1148
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: Opponent like it's it's it's a you're still you know,

1149
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: but it's an effective way to still be partisan, but

1150
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: maybe doing it through the prism of the best interests

1151
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: of the country versus Trump, who's refusing to work with Democrats.

1152
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 2: Just fired you know.

1153
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: Suppose you know and you're like, dude, there's a whole

1154
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 1: bunch of Democrats that want to prove that they do

1155
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: want to work with you. Take advantage of it, and

1156
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: your inability is on you you're in and guess what

1157
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: you're now going to just drive people away. This is

1158
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: why his approval rating is already under forty five is

1159
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: he refuses to be president for all the people.

1160
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: He just does.

1161
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: His great skill is at diagnosing the problem, and then

1162
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 3: he has no interest, in fact a negative interest in

1163
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 3: actually solving the problem.

1164
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 2: And I think that, oh, you'd rather have the problems

1165
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 2: to use as a cudgel.

1166
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, But one of the things that makes him so

1167
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 3: good at diagnosing the problem is what he's been doing

1168
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 3: for fifty years as a salesman. You know, every innovation

1169
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 3: is what problem does' solve. So he'll put his finger

1170
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 3: on the problem, he'll put it in a more vivid

1171
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 3: way than anyone else in politics, and have absolutely no

1172
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 3: interest in solving it. But I do think the knowledge

1173
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 3: of how hard these problems to solve holds a lot

1174
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 3: of Democrats and some Republicans back. It would be great

1175
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 3: to just point your finger to the problem of infrastructure

1176
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 3: and say, infrastructure, it's the other guy's fault.

1177
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 2: But no infrastructures a giant lift.

1178
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 3: Once you know that, maybe you don't speak as starkly

1179
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 3: about it as Donald Trump does. So I do think

1180
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 3: the more you know about the problem, sometimes the more

1181
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 3: it gets in the way of actually solving it. You know,

1182
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 3: I did this pretty much the same segment, but I

1183
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 3: did it in a different way through an interview.

1184
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: As we're recording. I had a niche chopra On.

1185
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 3: He was the first ever Chief Technology Officer of the

1186
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 3: United States and he ran essentially ran the office that

1187
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 3: became DOGE, and we just talked about So tell me

1188
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 3: he didn't do it in the style that you did.

1189
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 3: I understand Elon had a hat and a chainsaw and

1190
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 3: you wore a suit. But what were the things that

1191
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 3: he did that you liked?

1192
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 2: And we had a.

1193
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 3: Very good conversation, was very constructive. He talked about a

1194
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,439
Speaker 3: lot of the things that he admired that Doje actually did.

1195
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 3: He made a couple of points, one explicitly and won

1196
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 3: by inference. The point he made explicitly is, you know,

1197
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 3: he could have come up with more savings if he

1198
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 3: was or that office was as prioritized by the Clint

1199
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 3: by the Obama administration as Doge was. Right, So presidential

1200
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 3: bandwidth in mental time that counts for a lot.

1201
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 2: And so Obama was doing.

1202
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 3: Other things and he wanted this as a backstop. He'd

1203
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 3: never be able to achieve the actual cuts, not even

1204
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 3: the minuses that Elon did. But also, as I was

1205
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: talking to him, I just said to myself, yes, you.

1206
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 2: Know what you are. You're reasonable.

1207
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 3: You look at the net benefits, right, you definitely don't

1208
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 3: have a chainsaw and a hat, and that alone is.

1209
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 2: Not holding you back.

1210
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 3: But the way that any shoppeur would have done it,

1211
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 3: he could have gotten billions more in savings and we

1212
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 3: would have known a billionth of what he did. There

1213
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 3: was no pr aspect. It's almost negative pr Yeah.

1214
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 1: Well that's I mean that goes back to I mean,

1215
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's amazing to me how many.

1216
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: People don't learn the lesson from Trump. I mean, have you.

1217
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 1: Noticed like what to me, like the brilliance of Trump

1218
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen was he was He'd go anywhere, he would

1219
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: interview with anybody, he didn't care, and he sat down

1220
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: with everybody. I've not seen a democrat implement that same strategy,

1221
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: not once.

1222
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 2: You're like that guy comes close, right?

1223
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: He and by the way, who got traction out of nowhere?

1224
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah boodag right?

1225
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: Why because he was showing up and everywhere, right, he

1226
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: was willing to show up everywhere, So it is weird

1227
01:03:58,520 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: to me how long it's taken.

1228
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: Pare you know there's such.

1229
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: This this anger, this you know, it's it's funny.

1230
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 2: It's like.

1231
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,479
Speaker 1: There's people on the left who view Trump the same

1232
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: way as society views Hitler. And I know that the

1233
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: minute I bring up the H word, like people start

1234
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: tuning out. But the point is is that you know,

1235
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: there is no praising any idea Hitler ever had because

1236
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: it was all in service to something grotesque, right right?

1237
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: You know, the Democrats, I think sometimes too often look

1238
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: at Trump and saying, if he's for it, we have

1239
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: to be against it because his ends, everything he does

1240
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 1: is and you're just sitting there going, you know, there's

1241
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: ways to learn from him without emulating him, and I don't,

1242
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: you know it is And I don't know why I don't.

1243
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: I don't know whether we blame internet culture for this

1244
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: right where where too many of politicians today are so

1245
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: responsive to the moment that they actually can't take a

1246
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 1: step back and see the big picture.

1247
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know.

1248
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: I wish I had a better answer as to why

1249
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: Democrats have had such a hard time learning.

1250
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 2: What has made Trump work there's some.

1251
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 3: Parts of this that work, and they are I think Democrats,

1252
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 3: especially when they were a sentant, their skill set, what

1253
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 3: success in the party selected for was the ability to

1254
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 3: relentlessly stay on message and not make a mistake. And

1255
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,439
Speaker 3: it's the and this was what Obama was great at.

1256
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 3: And you could see that this was what Kamala Harris,

1257
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 3: this was her theory, even if she didn't articulate, it

1258
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 3: is how she operated.

1259
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 2: Trump's the opposite.

1260
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 3: Mistakes don't matter, mistakes probably help them, and there.

1261
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 2: Is no message.

1262
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 3: But I do think because of all fractured media society,

1263
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 3: and because of podcasting and long form podcasting and the

1264
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 3: fact that an audio interview could go an hour and

1265
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 3: a half, I think that old Obama way of don't

1266
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 3: make a mistake and get your three messages message points

1267
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 3: of the day out, I think that's done. And I

1268
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 3: don't know that the Democrats have realized that. The other

1269
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 3: thing is the things that Trump does.

1270
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 2: Well. We were just talking about dose and you know democrats.

1271
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: You said Democrats would love to cut Would they? I

1272
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 2: think probably in their heart of hearts, a.

1273
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 3: Few would, maybe many would, But in terms of the

1274
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 3: salience of the issue, it's not one two, or if

1275
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 3: you're right, and.

1276
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: I mean I hears it about a democratic ten years ago. Yeah,

1277
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: and maybe that one doesn't exist, because you know, not

1278
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 1: every answer is government, but I do think a growing

1279
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: number of democratic office holders believe that it is well.

1280
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 3: One thing that I support Trump on is the elimination

1281
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 3: of pennies. And I've been talking about this on my

1282
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 3: show for five ten years, and every time a presidential

1283
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 3: candidate or a senator anyone else would come through, I

1284
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 3: would ask them, why do we still make the penny?

1285
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 3: What do you think about the elimination of pennies? And

1286
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 3: I asked many senators about this. I asked Michael Bennett,

1287
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 3: I asked sp Bootage, and every single one of them

1288
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 3: was interested in the idea, but they were all hesitant

1289
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 3: to just sign on to the obvious. They all claim

1290
01:06:58,160 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 3: they hadn't thought of it before, and I believe them.

1291
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 3: They're all unbelievably cautious in embracing the riskiness of eliminating

1292
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 3: the penny. And you know, Donald Trump, sure he gets

1293
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 3: himself in trouble with much more consequential items like yeah,

1294
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 3: maybe we should arrest doctors if they give it abortion,

1295
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 3: But he definitely would have said, oh yeah, pennies to no,

1296
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 3: and that's the right answer.

1297
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: By the way, look, do you think Kamala Harris would

1298
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: be negotiating with Iran right now?

1299
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 2: No?

1300
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, so I sit there and it's like, now,

1301
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: am I troubled that the what's motivating Trump to do

1302
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: this is his business deals in the with the golf guys. Yeah,

1303
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm troubled by the motivation of it. But at the

1304
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: same time, sometimes you need some pragmatism. Has to be

1305
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: the coin of the realm in the Middle East, or

1306
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: you're not going to have any stability in the Middle East.

1307
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: And I say stability, not peace. They actually think there's

1308
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: a difference. And you know, so, you know, these are

1309
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: the things that the left needs to realize why the

1310
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: public is more tolerantive Trump than they are because on

1311
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: some of these things, Trump's behaving no different than what

1312
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: I think they think anybody.

1313
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 2: In that position should be behaving, which is, hey.

1314
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes you got to make deals with people you don't like,

1315
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: and that there's no you know, that's that's real politique.

1316
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 2: So it is.

1317
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 1: It is interesting to me, how and I think what's

1318
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: going to be interesting is that if Democrats do win

1319
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 1: the presidency in twenty eight. My assumption it's because somebody

1320
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: has learned those lessons.

1321
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,639
Speaker 2: If they have a nominee that hasn't learned those lessons,

1322
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 2: are not going to win in twenty oh. Well, have

1323
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 2: to be, have to be.

1324
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think everyone's running is positioning themselves as

1325
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 3: the guy who's learned the lessons, and I think they

1326
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 3: all have a different version of right. Gavin Newsom is,

1327
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 3: I talked to Michael Savage and contradicted, you know, twelve years.

1328
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 2: Of my record.

1329
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 3: And I think Tim wallas is, I'm that regular guy

1330
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 3: who code talks, comes off as a little clok.

1331
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: I think if you're caught trying too hard, you're just

1332
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: that trying to let me close out with this. Since

1333
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: you're a recovering sports reporter, and I spent a brief

1334
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: period I helped found a sports business publication back in

1335
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: the early nineties, so I guess I can claim some

1336
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,919
Speaker 1: stint on the sports reporting world. I do view sports

1337
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: as sort of the last bastion of our culture that

1338
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: can bring us together, Like I have this thesis that

1339
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: I can make youth sports and high school sports. The

1340
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: revenue stream that classified advertising was to support local news

1341
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: that in the long term that that could be. I

1342
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: think when you look at you know, a live event,

1343
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: a sporting event can bring red and blue together better.

1344
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: I mean, the NFL's the king of all of it.

1345
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: And yet coverage of sports is becoming more partisan and more.

1346
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: You're starting to see there's conservative sports guys and there's

1347
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: liberal sports guys. Where's this headed. Is sports going to

1348
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 1: become as polarizing as politics because of the nature of

1349
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: how independent media works, or will it continue to be

1350
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: the last piece of glue we have in society.

1351
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 3: I think sports themselves are going to continue to be

1352
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 3: the glue. The talking about sports is definitely going to

1353
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 3: fracture along the lines that you're talking about, but the

1354
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 3: sports themselves.

1355
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:24,719
Speaker 2: Take Caitlyn Clark.

1356
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:29,600
Speaker 3: She can be the epitome of everything that a progressive

1357
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 3: believes in, and she could also be the epitome of

1358
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 3: everything that a conservative.

1359
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 2: Says is good about the country.

1360
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 1: Right, one of the best, actually, my favorite Rorschach test

1361
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: in America these days, Right, Like, Yeah, I can learn

1362
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: a lot about somebody by how they feel about Kaitlyn Clark.

1363
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 2: Right, look at what she's done as a woman. Look

1364
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 2: at what she's done for women's sports.

1365
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 3: Look at how she's unapologetic, or look at how a

1366
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 3: dad and daughter work together.

1367
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 2: Look at all the hard work, look at all the teamwork.

1368
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,680
Speaker 3: So Caitlyn's going to be Caitlyn and is when she

1369
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 3: goes back from her quad and is going to be

1370
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 3: converting these twenty five footers, She'll be the thing, and

1371
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 3: then everything around it can talk about her however they want.

1372
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: Right, But it is sort of I am hopeful that

1373
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: we can stay glue.

1374
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 2: But you know, I we'll say, you know, I.

1375
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: You know, I am a little concerned that a few

1376
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: sports are the participants are all lean one way, Like

1377
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 1: it's tough to be a liberal.

1378
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 2: Golfer and it's tough to be a conservative NBA player.

1379
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,679
Speaker 3: Right, Well, I know examples both, and I think it's

1380
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:33,719
Speaker 3: much less tough.

1381
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 2: I could speak. I know that golfers.

1382
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 3: I think I think twelve years ago I read a

1383
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 3: story that there were no registered Democrats on the on

1384
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 3: the tour. But I know that especially among conservative or

1385
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 3: people who are not orthodoxly or progressive among the NBA,

1386
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 3: much easier than it was during the days of the

1387
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 3: bubble and the lockdown.

1388
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting, easier I find it interesting.

1389
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 1: You know, Bruce Pearl is fascinating to me because you

1390
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: don't don't see a lot of college basketball coaches being

1391
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 1: so political, I think, for fear it would harm recruiting.

1392
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: Right now, he's political on one story and on one issue,

1393
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: though I notice he's every once in a while he'll

1394
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 1: he'll just do regular politics, but for the most party

1395
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 1: sticks to just Israel. And obviously it hadn't had any impact, right,

1396
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: Auburn's had too and terrific and in fact, he's turned

1397
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: them more into a basketball school than they've ever been,

1398
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: even in the Charles Barkley days.

1399
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:31,759
Speaker 2: Right.

1400
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: But but it is that that stuff fascinates me, and

1401
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: I am very curious because you also see it, you know,

1402
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: certain in college football, certain coaches, if they're believers on

1403
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: a religious front, almost then do better with other believers, right,

1404
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: And it's almost how they recruit is through that prism.

1405
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: And it is still interesting to me that how much

1406
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: college football does work that way and that and people

1407
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 1: are are not quite aware of that.

1408
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 2: Right.

1409
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 3: Bobby Batnan was a great example of that. There are

1410
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 3: many others, but I do think Bruce Pearl, I think

1411
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 3: the team responds to it. You know, there's a lot

1412
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 3: of inspiration there, and he brought these this hostage family

1413
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 3: to the final four and they were eventually freed. I

1414
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 3: also think that uh, Steve Kerr, Okay, I know they're professional,

1415
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 3: but Kerr and Popovich.

1416
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 2: Were are very vocal.

1417
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 3: Popovitch was on the progressive side, and I think what

1418
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 3: people respond to.

1419
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:35,519
Speaker 1: You think ku Indianapolis versus San Francisco, be with a

1420
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: coach and anything.

1421
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 3: I think so because I think people respond to his conviction,

1422
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 3: the strength of his conviction. I don't think most of

1423
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 3: these twenty something year olds really have strong They might

1424
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 3: have inclinations, but they have.

1425
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 2: Deep political opinions to begin with.

1426
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 3: And when they see Kerr as interpersonally, they respect him

1427
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 3: and therefore they respect the stances that he takes. He also,

1428
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 3: you know, it's very important that all of these cases,

1429
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:06,760
Speaker 3: no one is taking really outlandish, outray dangerous everyone. You

1430
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 3: could always criticize everyone in someone's eyes as doing that,

1431
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 3: but I think they are sticking mostly to, you know,

1432
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 3: the factual basis of their arguments and doing it with

1433
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 3: conviction and responsibility overall.

1434
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 2: And I think you just said the same.

1435
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways, Bruce Pearl and Steve Kerr

1436
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 1: both have that they speak with such a conviction on

1437
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: the singular topic right Tricklarly Current on gun reform, pearl

1438
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: on On on the Israeli hostages that that if you,

1439
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: you know, if it's deeply held, I think in some

1440
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 1: ways even people that don't agree with you will.

1441
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 2: Respect it right to that. Yeah, let me get you

1442
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 2: out of here.

1443
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 1: On this, which is an expression Tony Korneizer uses, and

1444
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: I love it, and it's and it's simply this, what's there?

1445
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 1: Or four things you read every day that people that

1446
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: that most people would be shocked to know that you

1447
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: read every day in order to like, what's what's your

1448
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: Not to give away any secrets, but you're clearly a

1449
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: pretty well read in person. You're you have a diversity

1450
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 1: of interests. You know, I thought I had a diversity

1451
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: of interests your Times a thousand and and in fact,

1452
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: I'm very jealous of your newsletter at times because I'm like, yeah,

1453
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 1: you literally have I think have created a newsletter of

1454
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 1: just your interests, and you're just like, if you have

1455
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:20,679
Speaker 1: my interest, then you'll enjoy my newsletter.

1456
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 2: Period.

1457
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 3: This is this is the newsletter the just List, which

1458
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 3: I probably should have played it really is just my stuff, right,

1459
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 3: it's the pescal list rights.

1460
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: What's a couple of things you read in on every

1461
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: day that is just that just nourishes you to a point.

1462
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 2: Whe're like, everybody should be reading this, and I know

1463
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 2: they don't.

1464
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 3: Right, So I will say the New York Times, which

1465
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 3: doesn't surprise won't surprise everyone.

1466
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 2: The Financial Times is fantastic.

1467
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 3: I think the Financial press overall is I don't know

1468
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 3: if the last bastion, but they're much more truthful and

1469
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 3: honest and the least.

1470
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 2: It's the least partisan.

1471
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: It certainly has an ideology you could devolve it, but

1472
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 1: it's less.

1473
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 3: I don't think they're trying to convince you of anything

1474
01:15:57,240 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 3: other than this is really the story, and so Bloomberg

1475
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 3: and the economists or things that I'm happy to spend

1476
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 3: subscription money on. And then I also read, uh the

1477
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 3: Nick Reports from Japan just to get some interesting, kind

1478
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 3: of funny news. I read another newsletter put together by

1479
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 3: Walt Hickey called Numblock. He's been doing it for so

1480
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 3: many years. I love that newsletter. I have vowed never

1481
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 3: to steal an item, but I steal his sources or

1482
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 3: I see where he's getting and then.

1483
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 2: You're like, I'm gonna start reading that sour. Yes, exactly.

1484
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 2: That's how I got Nike.

1485
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 3: And then I read I read Eric Zorn, who does

1486
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 3: a thing called the Piki un Sentinel. He used to

1487
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 3: be the best columnist of the Chicago Tribune, and the

1488
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 3: Tribune has been facimated. Zorn is awesome, and especially my

1489
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 3: sister lives in Chicago.

1490
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:49,919
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by Chicago.

1491
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: I have a few stories like the last he was

1492
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 1: like the replacement for Roiko, wasn't he? And he was

1493
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: sort of like the last of his kind. I think

1494
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: there's like a direct line there. Yes, I think he's

1495
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 1: in that linea jill though.

1496
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:02,919
Speaker 3: You know, I think everyone probably who is a columnist

1497
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 3: editor the Tribune, like John Cass and all these guys

1498
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 3: were kind of anti Roykos would say I'm the I'm

1499
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:10,759
Speaker 3: the last roy Co And Bob Green there was another

1500
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:11,799
Speaker 3: controversial figure.

1501
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 2: What a paper? What a paper that is now a

1502
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 2: husk of itself.

1503
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 3: And there's a building in Chicago called the Tribune Building,

1504
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 3: and I bet people don't even.

1505
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 2: Know there's a newspaper associated with it.

1506
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the papers that didn't survive, I just

1507
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: that one, you know.

1508
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 2: But there's it's there, but sure.

1509
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: But like the Boston Globes the same way, like it

1510
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 1: was Wow, it was like a more of a sports section.

1511
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 3: The Globe Sports section, Oh my god, everyone in section,

1512
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 3: the Post, the Post dial section, there was a that

1513
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 3: was a great tangium of greatness.

1514
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now.

1515
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: Boy, the Post both are just you know, they're they're

1516
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 1: they're not what they used to be.

1517
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 2: Uh, Mike, this was a pleasure.

1518
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 3: Uh.

1519
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 2: You're, like I said, you're a pioneer in the space

1520
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 2: and you you you you you have an originality that.

1521
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: You know you can't it's hard to emulate, and I

1522
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,600
Speaker 1: think that for me it feels like the key to

1523
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: your success.

1524
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:17,759
Speaker 2: Well, thanks, thanks Todd. All Right, Pasca Italian for a fish.

1525
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 2: I mean, is it that simple? You grew up as

1526
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 2: a fish.

1527
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 3: The name of the production company is Peach Fish Productions

1528
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 3: because Italian Pasca is peach, but pache is fish, so

1529
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 3: it's peach fish.

1530
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 2: Oh that's funny. I like that.

1531
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: I love a good sort of naming origin that that

1532
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 1: does stuff like that with words and language.

1533
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 2: That's awesome. Mike, appreciate the time. Oh, thank you so much.

1534
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 1: All Right, see that dark open that I brought to

1535
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 1: you a tad lighter right with the conversation with Mike anyway,

1536
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 1: So with that, let's do a few questions. The last

1537
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: chuck here ash chuck. This one comes from Angela from

1538
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 1: New Orleans. I check love the podcast and enjoyed the

1539
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:11,879
Speaker 1: new Sphere interview Sunday.

1540
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 2: I like that format.

1541
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 1: I wanted to follow up on John from Fairfield question

1542
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: about Trump and Musk. Trump's tweets seem to admit he

1543
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:21,919
Speaker 1: gave Elon Musk a government contractor sweeping access to government systems,

1544
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 1: raising serious conflict of interest concerns within the level of influence.

1545
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 1: If true, suggests corruption or at least poor judgment for

1546
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 1: both Trump and his advisors. Also, how are tweets viewed legally?

1547
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 1: Can they be used as evidence or trigger congressional inquiries?

1548
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 2: Thank you? Well, look, they are considered.

1549
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 1: I do think that the tweets are you know, they're

1550
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 1: not somehow protected as some sort of like half speech

1551
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,320
Speaker 1: or something like that. Right, what he says on a

1552
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: social media what he says in social media is no

1553
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 1: different than what he says in public. And he's the

1554
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:55,800
Speaker 1: president whenever he does it right, and it can be

1555
01:19:55,800 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 1: a presidential So no, I don't there's no there's there's

1556
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: no less. I guess there's no less. You know, a

1557
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:08,640
Speaker 1: tweet hasn't viewed any less any differently than what he

1558
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 1: would say in a TV interview.

1559
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 2: Or a print interview.

1560
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 1: But you're right, I mean, this goes back to about

1561
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 1: what you said, you know, sort of he he basically

1562
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 1: confesses to what he's doing up front, right, And it

1563
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 1: goes back to my to that quote from Speaker Mike Johnson,

1564
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 1: who I think I've quoted now there will probably be

1565
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 1: the fourth time in two weeks where he said the

1566
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 1: biggest difference between Trump's corruption and Biden's corruption is that

1567
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: Biden tried to keep his corruption on the down low

1568
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:45,799
Speaker 1: with what Hunter Biden was doing and what Frank Biden

1569
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 1: was doing. Donald Trump does it out in the open

1570
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 1: and transparently so because he tells you in plain sight

1571
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 1: that he's handed the keys to the government over to

1572
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, and he's allowed Elon Musk to have his way,

1573
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to certain things that impact

1574
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 1: his businesses, get Star Link into the White House, whatever right,

1575
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, allows him to get more government contracts. That

1576
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 1: that's well, it's out in the open so it's not

1577
01:21:09,439 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: unethical anyway. My skepticism is there. Now here's the problem

1578
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 1: the entity we have two. There are three different places

1579
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 1: that could investigate what is clearly obvious conflict of interest

1580
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:25,200
Speaker 1: and it may be corrupt, right, it may be a crime.

1581
01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 1: We don't know that it's a crime. We would need

1582
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: more evidence to prove it. But there are three entities

1583
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 1: that could essentially do this investigating to see if a

1584
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:36,839
Speaker 1: crime was committed. Entity one would be an inspector general

1585
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 1: at any of the agencies. But of course Donald Trump

1586
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:43,120
Speaker 1: fired all the inspector generals. Now summers are kind of

1587
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: be back in place, and when he fires one, there's

1588
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: a temporary but by doing the across the board firing,

1589
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,120
Speaker 1: he was sending a warning shot, don't come after me.

1590
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 1: The second group is your is your congressional committees? Well,

1591
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: guess what Congress is controlled by his party and they

1592
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,799
Speaker 1: seem to I mean the House Oversight Committee is literally

1593
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 1: holding investigations about whether Joe Biden had control of his

1594
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:05,600
Speaker 1: autopen or not.

1595
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 2: They are not.

1596
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 1: Investigating what's hitting them in plain sight, which is he

1597
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 1: handed government contracts, gave them away like candidate Elon Musk,

1598
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 1: and he gave Elon Musk unfettered access, probably illegal, unfettered

1599
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,639
Speaker 1: access to the federal government to different databases like Social

1600
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 1: Security in the IRS. But we don't know if he

1601
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: did it corruptly or not. It certainly looks like it is,

1602
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: but there's no investigators. And of course the third entity

1603
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 1: that could do this is the Justice Department. I'm going

1604
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:41,960
Speaker 1: to pause here to let you laugh when I said

1605
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:45,799
Speaker 1: the Justice Department. So you get my point here. Everything

1606
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: you say is valid. The problem is the entities that

1607
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 1: are in charge of sort of the rule of law

1608
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: in these scenarios. Your inspectors generals, your Justice Department, and

1609
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:02,640
Speaker 1: your congressional committees have all been compromised. I wish I

1610
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 1: had a better answer for you, Angel, I appreciate the question.

1611
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 1: Let me go this second question, alternate history question. Where

1612
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 1: would we be now if Trump didn't withdraw from the

1613
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: Iran nuclear deal?

1614
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 2: Jim E.

1615
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 1: Well, that's an interesting question. Well, I can tell you

1616
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 1: what Israel feared of Trump doing a new deal. Here's

1617
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 1: what Israel feared in a new deal. And by the way,

1618
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:33,639
Speaker 1: if you're really interested in the sort of the nitty

1619
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 1: gritty of this, I do hope you tune into the

1620
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,679
Speaker 1: interview I did with Treta Parsi on Newsphere. This guy,

1621
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 1: he just he really laid it out well, and we

1622
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: go back to that, you know, back to that original

1623
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:48,760
Speaker 1: deal and sort of he really just explains the political

1624
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 1: motivations that each government has domestically. Anyway, It's a terrific

1625
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 1: conversation and I think we'll fill in some blanks here, But.

1626
01:23:57,880 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 2: Look what Israel.

1627
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 1: One of the reasons there's real acted is they had

1628
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 1: a fear that Trump would cut a deal with Iran,

1629
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 1: and that the deal would give Aron some money that

1630
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:15,040
Speaker 1: could in turn allow them to replenish Hesbalo, perhaps replenish

1631
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 1: the Hoodies, and maybe even help Hamas, although I'm less

1632
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent sure they would be as inclined

1633
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 1: to help rebuild Hamas as they actually the Iranians, I

1634
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 1: think blame Hamas for creating this situation. They suddenly find

1635
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: them in right. Hamas did not have Iran's green light

1636
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: for the October seventh attack, and yet that October seventh

1637
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: attack could look looks like it's turning into the beginning

1638
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 1: of the end for a Ran or at least certainly

1639
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 1: for many of Iran's proxies. But if we still had

1640
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: this Iran deal, well they would have you know, in theory,

1641
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,559
Speaker 1: they would have more money to at to use, they

1642
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 1: would be more The question would be would they be

1643
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,200
Speaker 1: as aggressive if we were if we had if we

1644
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:09,760
Speaker 1: were on top of them all the time. You know,

1645
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:13,559
Speaker 1: it was interesting what Treta thought. You know, they're in

1646
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 1: the first Iran deal. The Golf States were also against

1647
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: the United States cutting a deal with Iran, and as

1648
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 1: he put it, he said their fear was that the

1649
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 1: United States would end up just doing business with Iran

1650
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 1: over time and essentially not allowing the Golf States to

1651
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 1: have the advantage that they've had for quite some time,

1652
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 1: at least financially in the region now. And so that's

1653
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 1: why they were They shared the same position as Israel.

1654
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 1: Now they're less you know, they're not as supportive of

1655
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 1: what Israel did, and at the same time, they're not

1656
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:51,799
Speaker 1: any more pro Iran. They just at this point, don't

1657
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 1: they just want stability in the region, because it's the

1658
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 1: instability that costs the money, and it's the instability. Look

1659
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:00,600
Speaker 1: what it's going to do to I don't think this

1660
01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 1: is going to be good for anybody in that region.

1661
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 1: So I still don't know how how to answer your question.

1662
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:14,080
Speaker 1: There's so many what ifs here, would be be still

1663
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: still be in power?

1664
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 2: Right?

1665
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 1: Would he be considered? How would that have happened? Would

1666
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:22,719
Speaker 1: this if? If Iran? If this deal is staying, does

1667
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 1: Iran pull back on its proxies or get more aggressive

1668
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: with its proxies? I I am, I don't know. I'm

1669
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not going to sit here and claim that

1670
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: things would be better. It's very possible we could have

1671
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 1: been in the same place because maybe Iran gets cocky

1672
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:49,160
Speaker 1: and violates the agreement, and if they do, then we're

1673
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 1: drawn into this. So I don't know if there's any

1674
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 1: if there's any upside to have to have now at

1675
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:01,759
Speaker 1: this point, I don't know if there had been upside,

1676
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: especially if it appears that you were about to get

1677
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:08,040
Speaker 1: them back into a deal that might have been slightly

1678
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:13,719
Speaker 1: tougher than the deal that was cut with Obama. But Jim,

1679
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 1: it's a great question. I don't that's let me put

1680
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 1: it this way. I'm going to go ask some of

1681
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 1: my smarter Middle East experts that very same question, and

1682
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:24,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to see if I can get you a

1683
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:28,840
Speaker 1: better answer down the road, all Right, let's see here,

1684
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 1: Joe may do one more here, Joe R. He's just

1685
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:38,320
Speaker 1: got a note. Not necessarily a question, but it's an

1686
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 1: interesting one. So I thought I charged from Joe. Ours

1687
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,479
Speaker 1: from Vero Beach, home of Dodgertown. When I was a kid,

1688
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:45,639
Speaker 1: I went to Vera. We got to Vera Beach every

1689
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 1: spring break to go check out the Dodgers. My dad

1690
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 1: was a Dodger fan. That was the team of my

1691
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 1: youth as well. So love me some Vera Beach and

1692
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 1: I'd love to see Vera Beach get a new team

1693
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: for spring training. How another club hasn't said, hey, we

1694
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 1: want a piece of Dodger Town is beyond me. But Joe,

1695
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 1: here's your observation. Watched your Newsphere interview with Steve Bannon.

1696
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:05,719
Speaker 1: It was like a fresh breeze coming off the ocean.

1697
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 2: Wow.

1698
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 1: Well, see, this is why I'm going to share this

1699
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:09,639
Speaker 1: with you, right. I mean, been to meet the press

1700
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: and face the nation fan for decades. In the last

1701
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 1: few years, I've been fast forwarding through the interviews with

1702
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 1: politicians who appeared merely to repeat the party line and

1703
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 1: ignore hard questions. Your podcasts and Newsphere interviews provide more

1704
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,439
Speaker 1: information on the state of politics in the world than

1705
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:23,759
Speaker 1: those shows. So congrats on moving to your new formats

1706
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:26,360
Speaker 1: and providing real sight on today's weighty issues.

1707
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:27,839
Speaker 2: Co Gators, Oh man.

1708
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:30,400
Speaker 1: That pains me to have to repeat You'd said all

1709
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:34,240
Speaker 1: these nice things and then you had to say, go Gators. Anyway, Joe,

1710
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 1: let me defend those Sunday shows here. Though I think

1711
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:40,640
Speaker 1: both Margaret and Kristen are trying their very best. I

1712
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 1: think the formats are what prevents them, I think from

1713
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:46,680
Speaker 1: doing the interviews.

1714
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:48,640
Speaker 2: That they would like to be doing. So don't trust me.

1715
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:49,639
Speaker 2: I've been in that seat.

1716
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 1: I understand the different pressures that come with it. So

1717
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 1: I want to be as much as much as I

1718
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 1: appreciate the question and appreciate the sentiment, I'm not interested

1719
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 1: in and dunking on them. I just think that we're

1720
01:29:02,479 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 1: in a different place now, in this current media ecosystem,

1721
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:05,719
Speaker 1: and I.

1722
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 2: Do think that.

1723
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:11,560
Speaker 1: There is a that there's a better way to surface information.

1724
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 1: I know it's not as sometimes, it's not as shiny,

1725
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 1: it's not as much of a shiny metal object right

1726
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:23,639
Speaker 1: to grab your attention. But I fear traditional media in general.

1727
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:27,639
Speaker 1: You know, when you start to lose audience. You start

1728
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:30,519
Speaker 1: to like try to grab viewers by the lapels, don't leave,

1729
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:32,840
Speaker 1: don't leave, right, and you start to sort of chase

1730
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: certain shiny metal things, thinking that it's going to help

1731
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 1: when sometimes zagging just when everybody's zigging is sometimes the

1732
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:47,519
Speaker 1: better move. But look, you know it's a this is

1733
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 1: the advantage of the formats that I'm in. But at

1734
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:53,320
Speaker 1: the same time, sometimes you don't there aren't You can't

1735
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 1: get these people to sit down for twenty at thirty minutes, right,

1736
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:59,920
Speaker 1: So the people I am getting are end up sounding

1737
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 1: forthcoming because they're willing to come on for twenty thirty

1738
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:05,439
Speaker 1: forty five minutes, and you get a better understanding of

1739
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:08,640
Speaker 1: how someone thinks, even if they're not being straight with

1740
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: the answers that they're giving, and you kind of catch

1741
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:13,679
Speaker 1: them with it. Right, that five to ten minute interview,

1742
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if it serves anybody anything, And I

1743
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 1: think that unfortunately, everybody knows how to do the five

1744
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: minute interview, right. You know how to avoid making news.

1745
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 1: If you have to avoid making news, you know how

1746
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 1: to hijacket if you'd like to make a one particular

1747
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 1: piece of information and then make it so that it's

1748
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 1: nothing else.

1749
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 2: I think that's what has made it.

1750
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 1: It's just, you know, look, we just got to the

1751
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,600
Speaker 1: end of the usefulness of that kind of format, is

1752
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 1: the way I.

1753
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:42,080
Speaker 2: Would put it. But anyway, I appreciate the sentiment.

1754
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 1: I hope my media writer friends out there don't try

1755
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 1: to overwrite what I just said there, don't aggregate what

1756
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 1: I just said.

1757
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:55,320
Speaker 2: Just let it be all right with that. It's Monday.

1758
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:58,200
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of maybe there might be

1759
01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 1: another podcast or two you want to catch up with,

1760
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:03,559
Speaker 1: so I won't add to the U add to your

1761
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:05,920
Speaker 1: listening time today, but I promise you a couple more

1762
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:08,600
Speaker 1: fun drops later this week and with that until we

1763
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 1: upload again.

1764
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 2: M M