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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and you're listening to Stefan Never

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Speaker 1: told you. Today we are once again joined by guest

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Speaker 1: co host Miranda. Thanks for joining as Miranda, I'm glad

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Speaker 1: to be back. Yeah. You might recognize Miranda from our

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Speaker 1: episode All Around Consent and No meaning no the first time.

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Speaker 1: But when we were first talking about ideas that you

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Speaker 1: were interested in doing, you pitched an episode about Ariana

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Speaker 1: grand Day and you said we need to do it

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Speaker 1: soon because it's timely. And I, as I've said on

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Speaker 1: the show before, I don't know much about Ariana Grande.

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Speaker 1: She has come up on this show a lot um,

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Speaker 1: so I was like, timely, Okay, we better get on it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned before, I'm pretty much out of the

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Speaker 1: loop when it comes already on a grand date. But

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Speaker 1: my phone is determined to fix that. I swear every

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Speaker 1: day I get an update, a news update, Ariana Grande

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Speaker 1: does this. Yeah, she's been she's been all up in

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Speaker 1: the news lately. Yeah it seems so. It seems so.

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Speaker 1: But to you, this is one of the reasons you're

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Speaker 1: here because you have you have a pretty decent amount

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Speaker 1: of Ariana Grandie knowledge. At this point, I'm like stuffed

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Speaker 1: to the brim. You know so much about her and

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Speaker 1: I'm not, and I'm just like, okay, how did we

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Speaker 1: get here? But we're here, we are here, and we're

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Speaker 1: not just talking about like Ariana grand Day. We're going

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Speaker 1: to touch on other things, right, Yes, yes, definitely. There

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Speaker 1: was some controversy about her thank You Next video that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about because it had a big

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Speaker 1: impact on me, which is why I was so vocal

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Speaker 1: about wanting to talk about Ariana Grande. Right, well, I

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Speaker 1: love it. UM. Always down to learn more about pop culture,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things that we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about that this controversy specifically is wokeness. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: we thought we would. As always, it's good to start

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Speaker 1: with the definition, um and actually finding a definition is

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Speaker 1: hard to find, and I think after we go into

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Speaker 1: some of the history that will become clear. Why. But

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Speaker 1: from Urban Dictionary quote, being woke means being aware, knowing

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Speaker 1: what's going on in the community, and it started as

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Speaker 1: a term used primarily among the black activist community on

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Speaker 1: social media. Nowadays, it has been largely appropriated by white

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Speaker 1: mainstream internet culture, and it is often used as a

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Speaker 1: joke or to poke fun at wokeness. It has fractured

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Speaker 1: into multiple meanings, and a lot of them conflict directly

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Speaker 1: with each other. Yes, you see it a lot on

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Speaker 1: Twitter and you know Facebook and lots of social media. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: um and so like a quick rundown quick history. The

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Speaker 1: generally accepted first usage of woke with this definition came

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Speaker 1: from a song from two thousand eight called a Master

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Speaker 1: Teacher by Erica Badou, and it also had Bilal and

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Speaker 1: Georgia and Muldrow basically seeing about a future where she

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Speaker 1: dreams of very kind of a much better future, but

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Speaker 1: knows that it will probably never happen. And at the

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Speaker 1: time there was a lot of confusion around what she

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Speaker 1: meant by woke. You can go back on the Internet

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Speaker 1: and there's all this like Yahoo answers, what did it mean?

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Speaker 1: Trying to dissect to get to the bottom of it,

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Speaker 1: especially among white people, confusion. Uh. Two years later, in

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Speaker 1: two ten, you might have seen stay woke on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: but generally it referred to actually trying to stay away

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Speaker 1: were sired. By twenty eleven, people had a more nuanced

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Speaker 1: understanding of the line I stay woke from Master Teacher.

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Speaker 1: Again Yahoo answers, you can find it it's kind of

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Speaker 1: funny now. And with the death of Trayvon Martin and

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Speaker 1: his killer Andrew Zimmerman found not guilty and the Russian

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Speaker 1: rock group Pussy Riot being threatened with jail time for

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Speaker 1: their queer sexual protest performance, Eric Kabadu came out in

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Speaker 1: solidary with the band on Twitter with this tweet truth

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Speaker 1: requires no belief, Stay awoke. Watch closely hashtag free Pussy Riot,

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of when stay awoke in the since

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Speaker 1: we use it now started to become more common on

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Speaker 1: social media, especially when expressing outrage around Andrew Zimmerman's lack

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Speaker 1: of punishment or other things like that. Because unfortunately there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of things um around. We see the

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Speaker 1: meming and co opting of stay woke. It was applied

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Speaker 1: to all sorts of things, and worth noting the hashtag

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Speaker 1: black Lives Matter, which was often a counterpart or used

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Speaker 1: at the same time with the hashtags they woke, was

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Speaker 1: not widely adopted it and instead around this time is

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Speaker 1: when we start to see the rise of all lives

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Speaker 1: matter that hashtag. BuzzFeed helped popularize woke in twenty with

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Speaker 1: the article can we talk about how woke? Matt mcgory

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Speaker 1: was in discussing the sympathy of the white heterosist actor

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Speaker 1: on the TV show How to Get Away with Murder

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Speaker 1: towards the gender and racial inequality, and then h MTV

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Speaker 1: in sixteen labeled woke on freak in teenage slaying Yes,

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Speaker 1: Oh goodness indeed. And then soon after stay woke became

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Speaker 1: sort of a joke on Twitter. People would use it,

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Speaker 1: I don't know for for pretty much anything like my

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Speaker 1: my leggings don't fit. Stay woke like anything. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: then from there its usage really fractured, and it's a

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Speaker 1: way to criticize typically white people who think they are

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Speaker 1: woke are to make fun of the idea of wokeness altogether.

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Speaker 1: But a sort of tragic that this thing that was

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Speaker 1: really part of the black activist social community got appropriated

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Speaker 1: and now it's really deluded and also just means directly

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Speaker 1: conflicting things. Yeah. And and also it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to be more aware. Like at first I was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is like the specific what it means trying to

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Speaker 1: be more aware, and like, I mean, as as time

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Speaker 1: has gone on, especially since the presidency, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: people are trying to be more aware. Um, So it's like,

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Speaker 1: how now do you define that in in what space?

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Speaker 1: You know? Without using where It's like this, right, um,

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Speaker 1: and I a couple of years ago, I was covering

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Speaker 1: afro Punk, which, if you don't know what that is,

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Speaker 1: it's a music festival that celebrates all things blackness and

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Speaker 1: also has these panels about activism and social issues. And

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Speaker 1: you can hear Bridget on Afropunk Solution Sessions that podcast.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that came up a lot

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Speaker 1: when we were doing personal on the street interviews are

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Speaker 1: just interviewing random people who walked by. Was this in

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Speaker 1: noyance at how the term woke was used, and most

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Speaker 1: people I spoke with um said that you are never woke.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people they expressed this thing where it's

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Speaker 1: like something you always strive for, but since we're all human,

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Speaker 1: we all have so much to learn, you were never

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Speaker 1: truly woke. You're always kind of working towards it, and

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Speaker 1: that's what woke is. If that makes sense. I actually

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Speaker 1: think that makes more sense because I know someone who's

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Speaker 1: trying to be better. You know, I'm never going to

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Speaker 1: be there, and if you ever think you're there, you're

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Speaker 1: most likely not exactly exactly. So that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: brief history of the term, and it relates to a

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Speaker 1: right on a grand day. I've told so many people

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Speaker 1: doing this and they're like, what do you mean. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you'll see, but yeah, yeah, it totally makes sense that

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna I mean, it's about Ariana Grande. It

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Speaker 1: is about Ariana Grande, but it's about a think piece

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Speaker 1: that was done on her thinking next video. But it

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Speaker 1: encompasses this idea of being woke but also being too woke.

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Speaker 1: Quotation marks right. And one of the reasons you wanted

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Speaker 1: to do this, if I recall, because the music video

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Speaker 1: you went on a bit of a tangent. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if you've seen the music video.

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Speaker 1: Have you watched it yet? Okay, no, all right, it's okay. So,

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Speaker 1: I um, I really like music videos in general. I

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Speaker 1: will like spend a night at home watching music videos

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Speaker 1: drinking wine. I just it's something I enjoyed doing, even

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Speaker 1: if I don't like the artist of it. If the

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Speaker 1: you know, music videos entertaining, I'm like, okay, cool. So

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Speaker 1: I went on an arian A Grande kick. I've never

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Speaker 1: really listened to her music It's not that I don't

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Speaker 1: know she's talented, but I'm more of a Selena Gomez

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Speaker 1: kind of person, and I think you're normally one or

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Speaker 1: the other. Yeah, that sends to be how I've seen

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Speaker 1: it separate. Um so I'm more Selena Gomez as far

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Speaker 1: as like you know her music, but um, arian A Grande. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: I went down an arian Grande music video hole and

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Speaker 1: to the point where I even like, did a little

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Speaker 1: video trying to mimic something she was doing. Totally failed.

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Speaker 1: The baby gate fell on me, but it was it

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Speaker 1: was totally fine. I got to see it. It It was

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Speaker 1: pretty epic. Um. Yeah, So I had just had just

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Speaker 1: gotten into her because of the music videos, and then

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Speaker 1: this music video came out, and then this think piece

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Speaker 1: came out and it was this huge controversy blow up,

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Speaker 1: and I just I got lost in a lot of fields,

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Speaker 1: being very unsure of what was going on, which is

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Speaker 1: why initially brought this up. But before we get too

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Speaker 1: far into that, I do want to be clear. I

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Speaker 1: know that there's a lot going on with Ariana Grande

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Speaker 1: right now, between her Seven Rings music video and taking

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Speaker 1: things from other artists, there's a lot of appropriation between that,

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Speaker 1: the music video Seven Rings itself, her black sense being

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Speaker 1: called out for that. People are saying she's doing digital

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Speaker 1: black face. To talk about a bit more about later,

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Speaker 1: and then also heard tattoo fiasco where she tried to

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Speaker 1: get seven rings in Japanese on her hand and if

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Speaker 1: you take the characters separately, it does say once as

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Speaker 1: seven once. It's like rings and stuff, but the way

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Speaker 1: that she put them together it's a like small charcoal grill,

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Speaker 1: a small charcoal grills. And then she tried to fix

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Speaker 1: it and then it said like small charcoal grill in

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Speaker 1: the finger or something. I'm not seven fingers, which closer

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Speaker 1: I mean you need seven fingers if you're gonna wear

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Speaker 1: seven rings. Well, no you don't at all. I don't

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Speaker 1: wear much jewelry. I don't need It's okay. And then

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Speaker 1: she's also getting sued right now to for another music video,

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Speaker 1: her God is a Woman music video supposedly um Are

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Speaker 1: allegedly she it's like a federal copyright infringement. There's a

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Speaker 1: scene in the video where this artist is saying that

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Speaker 1: it's like almost exactly like something he painted that was

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Speaker 1: copyrighted back in so she's just kind of getting hit

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Speaker 1: left and right, um with appropriating culture and things not

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Speaker 1: being her own, and yeah, she's not doing so hot

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Speaker 1: and yet and all my phone wants to alert me

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Speaker 1: about she's gotten really popular out of late. But yes,

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Speaker 1: but we're gonna talk about thank You next. So I know,

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Speaker 1: as you said, you hadn't seen it, but thank You

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Speaker 1: next as an homage to nineties pop culture. Mean Girls

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Speaker 1: bring it on legally Blonde, and there's even a little

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Speaker 1: bit of thirteen going on thirty. It was very like short, short,

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Speaker 1: little clips. Took me a second, but I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what's going on. Everyone was very excited when they're

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Speaker 1: excited about the song because she's basically saying thank you

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Speaker 1: to all my exes and she calls him by name

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Speaker 1: and all the things she learned from them, but you know,

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Speaker 1: moving on, and she and her now ex fiance recently

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Speaker 1: split last year. Yeah last year. Yeah, Pete Davidson, and

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Speaker 1: he's even included in that, but she says her actual name.

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Speaker 1: But it's supposed to be like this heartfelt, uplifting song.

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Speaker 1: But everyone was super stoked because of the Mean Girls

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Speaker 1: mainly that was like the main theme through all of it.

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Speaker 1: And then the other stuff was like interspersed. But it

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Speaker 1: was really great because they even like pulled like some

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Speaker 1: of the original like actors and actresses from these movies,

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Speaker 1: and they had like a whole bunch of cameos and

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it was a lot of fun. And

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Speaker 1: if you grew up and you watched those and you

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Speaker 1: love those movies, like you're like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 1: is amazing. Um. Yeah, so I remember watching it being like,

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Speaker 1: this is great. Didn't really love the song offense, but

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Speaker 1: I love the music video. Yeah, it's really funny, because

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not funny. I suppose I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: any of those movies, not a single one, so I

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Speaker 1: probably would have watched it and been like, whoa, something's

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Speaker 1: happening here. Though I am not picking up. I would

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Speaker 1: recognize me and girls. Ye um. But I remember when

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Speaker 1: that music video first came out. It was around the

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Speaker 1: time that the Avengers trailer came out, and people were

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Speaker 1: I did I had to look it up because everybody

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Speaker 1: on Twitter was doing like the first one taught me this,

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Speaker 1: the second one taught me this, But and I had

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Speaker 1: no idea what was happening. I did not know that happened.

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Speaker 1: It did, and I was very confused, Uh, but I

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Speaker 1: figured it out. I think proud of thank you. But

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Speaker 1: this just about brings us to the controversy that we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about. But first it brings us to

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Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and

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Speaker 1: we're back, thank you sponsor. So Miranda tell us about

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Speaker 1: this controversy. Okay. So I follow a trans woman on

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Speaker 1: Instagram and she is huge in the advocacy world. Um.

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Speaker 1: She does a lot of tours and does a lot

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Speaker 1: of speeches, but she also writes for a lot of publications,

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Speaker 1: including the LGBTQ publication into the online one. So I

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Speaker 1: ran across an article, um about this music video that

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Speaker 1: she did, and it was a think piece titled Ariana

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Speaker 1: Grandes thank You. Next music video is surprisingly anti queer.

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Speaker 1: Now we're not going to say the author's name, and

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Speaker 1: it will explain why later. Um. And also that original

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Speaker 1: article has also been taken down, which we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: a little later. But I want to go into the

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Speaker 1: article or the think piece itself first. It really threw

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Speaker 1: me off when I ran across this piece because as

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Speaker 1: someone who's constantly trying to learn and be a better

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Speaker 1: Alley and like just be more conscious of, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything around me. When I saw that and read the

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Speaker 1: article compared to what I had seen, I was like,

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Speaker 1: did I completely missed the point? And it really made

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Speaker 1: me check myself. I was like, am I Like it

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Speaker 1: really threw me through loop? I was like, am I

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Speaker 1: so blind? Like that I didn't catch any of this?

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Speaker 1: Um it turns out that's not the case, but we'll

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Speaker 1: get into what this author was saying from this music video.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot yeah, and it and it really

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Speaker 1: had you know, me thinking. So when the author said

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Speaker 1: anti queer, one of the things that there's actually a

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Speaker 1: few different examples, but one of them is queer antagonism.

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Speaker 1: If you don't know about the newer artist whose name

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Speaker 1: is Tris Van, he's openly gay. He's really popular for

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Speaker 1: a song bloom Um, does a few other things. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's really great. He's awesome And so Ariana and Ariana

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Speaker 1: and him have done a couple of music videos together.

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Speaker 1: So he was in this one and there's a scene

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Speaker 1: where she pushes him into the locker and like just

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Speaker 1: like what walks by and just shoved him to the

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Speaker 1: locker and he's just like, has this look on his face,

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Speaker 1: and the author interpreted this as saying that queer people

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Speaker 1: are glad to be disrespected by someone like Arianna because

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Speaker 1: it means they're getting attention, even if it's negative attention.

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Speaker 1: She also had queer phobia, and there at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: there's another scene where Troy is when he says, like,

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Speaker 1: Arianna is a lesbian now and dating some chick called Aubrey.

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Speaker 1: It's making sick, And the author says this is meant

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Speaker 1: to be in a derisive way, and she even says,

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Speaker 1: like in the article itself, she said, Arianna is so

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Speaker 1: offended at the very thought of having a woman as

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Speaker 1: a lover. She even addressed it at the very beginning

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Speaker 1: of her music video, and then later on in the

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Speaker 1: music video there's like so much in like four minutes,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. But later in the music video

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Speaker 1: there's another scene that's interpreted that the author interprets as

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Speaker 1: anti lesbian or Jennifer Coolidge. Okay, now we're moving on

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Speaker 1: to legally blonde by the way. Okay, so Jennifer Coolidge.

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Speaker 1: They're in the beauty parlor and she asked, Arianna, have

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Speaker 1: you ever gone out with someone that had no teeth?

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Speaker 1: At all, And the author argues that Arianna smirks while

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Speaker 1: saying no, and that this is meant to insinuate their

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Speaker 1: talking about penises, and like it's supposed to be like

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Speaker 1: white feminism, like supporting her, like heteronormative like ways very strange.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard anyone referenced teeth with penis, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, um yeah. And and so the author

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Speaker 1: also you know, interprets as a scene makes fun like

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Speaker 1: queer woman the butt of the joke. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: also in that same scene, a little later on, they

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Speaker 1: do a bendon snap, you know, the bend snap. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so they do their own little thing to it. And

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Speaker 1: supposedly in this like not even a minute long, the

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Speaker 1: author says, like queer people of color are used as

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Speaker 1: props here um. And she asserts that at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the scene, you see like what looks like queer

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Speaker 1: game in um. And then that when they get into

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Speaker 1: the bendon snap part of the beauty polar scene, that

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Speaker 1: they disappear and that supposedly only leaves presumably straight women

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Speaker 1: to dance. Now it's not just anti queer, but the

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Speaker 1: author also says there's trans misogyny in this music video

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Speaker 1: UM with about seventeen sixteen seventeen seconds and one of

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Speaker 1: Arianna's backup dancers, Scott Nicholson. He's dressed in a week

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Speaker 1: and appears to be portraying a trans woman and he's

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Speaker 1: like talking about Arianda as is she's Regina George from

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Speaker 1: like Mean Girls, Like oh my goodness, you know. It's

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Speaker 1: a very short, very quick over in a couple of seconds.

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Speaker 1: And then at the very end of the music video,

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Speaker 1: christ Jenner, who's supposed to be Regina George's mom, she

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Speaker 1: she stumbles out of like uh like there at their

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Speaker 1: daughters are at the Mean Girl scene of UM and

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Speaker 1: the auditorium and she stumbles out of the seats and

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Speaker 1: with like her video camera and she's like thank you.

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Speaker 1: Next bit and it's like hilarious but anyways, UM, But

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Speaker 1: the author says that this is supposed to be a

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Speaker 1: dig at Caitlyn Jenner Chris's X. And then the last

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Speaker 1: thing that I want to touch on is black face.

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Speaker 1: So at forty seven seconds, and there's a scene of

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Speaker 1: Ariana writing in her burned book. She definitely has a

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Speaker 1: very dark tan. She's much darker than usual. UM. The

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Speaker 1: author accuses ariana black face throughout the video, noting are

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Speaker 1: you on a skin? Varies in shade seen to scene

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Speaker 1: in a horrifying transformation, highlighting how little she cares about

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Speaker 1: communities of color. Now, again, as I said at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: as someone who's been working trying to educate myself, I

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Speaker 1: was super thrown off because, like some of the things

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Speaker 1: the author was saying, I was like, okay, some of

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Speaker 1: it was just I was like, I don't see that, Like,

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Speaker 1: am I missing it? So it really I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It made me check myself and I got really uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: with it. But like I said, it turns out I

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Speaker 1: did not miss the point. Uh. So I started kind

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Speaker 1: of following the trend, like reading the comments, reading everything

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Speaker 1: that was happening, and people were furious. They're like, I

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Speaker 1: have never seen someone reach like that. The term was

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Speaker 1: reached so far, people like as a satires was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be real, like how did you print this? Very

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Speaker 1: confused and upset. They were just like no, this is

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Speaker 1: this is like such a reach. And it made me

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Speaker 1: feel better. I was like, okay, so I you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not completely off the beaten path here. I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, but even like Roreus Vaughn tweeted about it,

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Speaker 1: saying this literally can't be real. I'm scream I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure what he meant by I'm screamed, but okay. UM.

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Speaker 1: Tatiana RuPaul's drag Race tweeted saying, I'm sorry, but this

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Speaker 1: is the farthest reaching article I've read in my whole

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Speaker 1: entire life. So it was not Yeah, it was. It

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Speaker 1: was not well received. Um. There was actually so much

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Speaker 1: blowback the editor and she responded personally by apologizing for

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Speaker 1: even letting this piece like make it online, um, and

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Speaker 1: then saying that they're going to they're releasing another think

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Speaker 1: piece in response to this think piece. Okay, now the

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Speaker 1: follow up think piece. Sorry if this gets confusing. The

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Speaker 1: thin piece. The thin piece, UM was written by Clarksha

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Speaker 1: Kent and it's titled there is such thing as two

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Speaker 1: Woke overbuttled to that ariana think piece, and I really

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Speaker 1: appreciated the title itself. That she has said that it

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Speaker 1: was too woke. She doesn't say that the arguments are wrong,

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Speaker 1: but she does basically like she puts things into context.

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Speaker 1: Some of the things she did were like that was

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Speaker 1: just way out in left field, but Kent's peace focus

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Speaker 1: is mainly on proving that the first article was a

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Speaker 1: huge miss because of lack of context and evidence. She

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Speaker 1: does say, though, that the supposed dig at Caitlin nerds,

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Speaker 1: she does say it's quite libelous and points out that

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Speaker 1: that was Ariana's idea. So that was you know, because

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Speaker 1: like everyone was like, how is this at all like

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Speaker 1: to your ex Okay, so we're gonna go back through

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Speaker 1: some of the points I initially said and say what

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Speaker 1: this author said in response to them. So as far

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Speaker 1: as it being anti queer, the interaction again where Sevan

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Speaker 1: gets shoved into a locker, I can't argue that the

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Speaker 1: first author's assertation that queer people at large are glad

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Speaker 1: to be disrespected and again in quotation Marks, is bold

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Speaker 1: and couldn't be farther from the truth. She points out

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Speaker 1: the obvious most of us don't find it enjoyable to

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Speaker 1: be disrespected. Are very much don't enjoy it in fact. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like even if it's like from someone who I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I look up to or whatever, I still know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would make me not want to look up to that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But she also says what most of us are thinking

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Speaker 1: is like, how does that? How does one then take

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Speaker 1: that microcoseum of a scene and apply it to every

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Speaker 1: queer person ever? And it's like two seconds and it's

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Speaker 1: like it's supposed to be everybody, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's yeah. Yeah. As for the previous

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Speaker 1: author saying Savan's sit comment is devisive, can't argue the

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Speaker 1: author doesn't fully understand how slang works, which is yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think at some point most of us

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Speaker 1: has used sick as like something being cool. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know I've used it personally, right, our producer definitely. Um

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Speaker 1: And Plus later on the song, if you listen to

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Speaker 1: it fully, Arianne elaborates that she's in a relationship with

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Speaker 1: Ari a k A herself. So the author like kn't

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Speaker 1: doesn't say this, But as far as I'm concerned, like

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Speaker 1: kind of inserting myself a little bit here, I took

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Speaker 1: it as like it's supposed to be a joke, like

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Speaker 1: he said it wrong, like like she's in a relationship

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Speaker 1: with lesbian like all every but it's like, no, she's

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Speaker 1: in a relationship with herself ari you know. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, the whole teeth thing to imply that

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Speaker 1: she's making fun of people who have no penises. Kent

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Speaker 1: says that this is combative reading, like the way that

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Speaker 1: the original author read into it was just so off

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Speaker 1: the map. And again, I've never heard anyone use teeth

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Speaker 1: as far as I'm playing penises. So I was like, okay, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a little strange because normally is that a horror

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Speaker 1: movie where vagina has teeth? But no other is it?

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Speaker 1: So the vagina? Yeah? Fun side note. That was one

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Speaker 1: of the first episodes I pitched when I came on

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Speaker 1: as a host, and I have the outlined ready to go,

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Speaker 1: but no one wants to talk about it with me.

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Speaker 1: We can just insert it any here, like let's just

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Speaker 1: do a little side note. Just thinks a turn. It's

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Speaker 1: like a podcast within a podcast. I thought you were

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Speaker 1: listening to an episode about Ariana Grande, but this is

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Speaker 1: how we bring you in. Ask for using queer people

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Speaker 1: of color as props. You don't actually have to read

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Speaker 1: what Kent says to this um, but it is demonstrably false.

426
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: If you actually watch the music video, you can see

427
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: this is not true. The same visibly queer people who

428
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: were there at the beginning of the beauty salon scene

429
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: are there for the bandon snaps scene, but Kent does

430
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: go on to break down the previous author sentence. The

431
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: queer men disappear from the beauty parlor only leaving presumably

432
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: straight women to dance. Kent says she was grateful that

433
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: presumably was used here because it shows how presumptuous the

434
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: author is can't assert. This s line implies queer women

435
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: are of no importance and that all women in the

436
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: scene are straight, which I hope we all know by

437
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,959
Speaker 1: now that you can't tell a person's sexual orientation by

438
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: the way they look. So yeah, the the initial author

439
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: of the first think piece was definitely kind of leading,

440
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: and that was very very off. But again, if you

441
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: actually watched music video, very wrong there. I have gone

442
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: back and re watches music video multiple times, not only

443
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: for the research but also just like checking sure. I

444
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: hope that all the people listening to this, like do

445
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,719
Speaker 1: you watch just have this and you know, press play

446
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: dissect the scene this like I think that could be fun,

447
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: but I have a I'm a very big nerd making

448
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: a drinking game. I don't know now that okay, okay,

449
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: um yeah, And then moving on into the trans misogyny. Um.

450
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: As we already talked about earlier, the whole Christian are

451
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: yelling thank you, next bitch was actually Arianna's idea. Um,

452
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: there's nothing to suggest or link it back to Chris's

453
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: ex Caitlin As for the backup dancer addressed as a

454
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: woman can't write. She initially read this as Nicholson's character

455
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: aiming to be just like Arianna, because again, Arianna is

456
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: supposed to be playing Regina George right who if you

457
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: watch Me and Girls, everyone wants to be Regina George

458
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: and like just is like, oh, just being in her presence? Um,

459
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: but she does. Kent does follow up by adding, after

460
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: rewatching the video, she isn't sure because she is not

461
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: a trans woman, so she would be out of her

462
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: lane to dissect this. Um. Kent isn't saying the point

463
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: is wrong, but that it suffers from lack of elaboration

464
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: and exploration. In considering I'm not a trans woman either,

465
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: I also cannot make a claim on it. Um. I

466
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: did have the same initial thought that Kent did. Um,

467
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: But again I don't know, so I can't say anything

468
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: on that either. But I do agree with Kent those

469
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: as far as like it does suffer from a little

470
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: bit of lack of elaboration and exploration. It was initially

471
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: tossed in the original article, right, Yeah, a lot of

472
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 1: this stuff from reading this Kent's peace, it sounds like

473
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,239
Speaker 1: context was missing. A lot of context, And Kent does

474
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: make a point. I mean we're talking about like some

475
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: of the biggest issues, but there's she does bring up

476
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: like the context of the videos and like the initial

477
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: movies themselves, like that the initial author maybe didn't understand

478
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: where like the homage was like coming from, like the

479
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: movies themselves, Like I mean, they were the nineties there

480
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: white white movies. Other than Bring it On. There's like

481
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: no lead black or brown person in them anywhere, really, right, Yeah,

482
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: I feel like I haven't seen Bring it On, but

483
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: I feel like I've read a lot of critiques that

484
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: it is not a good portrayal. No no, no black people.

485
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, it sounds like a lot of that

486
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: was missing. It was definitely And then coming down to

487
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: the black face you know, again, Kent doesn't say the

488
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: original authors point of our and is oddly darker skin

489
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: tone as black faces. Wrong. She said it flops because

490
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: the author who isn't black by the way, doesn't have

491
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: the range to argue back her point or to argue

492
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: or back up her point. Um knt write. This is

493
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: aggravated by the fact that there's no comparative analysis done

494
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: between Grande and other white women in pop music, So

495
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, she's just like, oh, she's just doing this

496
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: black face and leaves it at that. UM can't use

497
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: as a more recently named phenomenon of digital black face

498
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: to to support her arguments. So were Michelle Jackson did

499
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: an article for teen Vogue, and she defined digital black

500
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: face as inhabiting black persona using technology to co op

501
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: a perceived cache or black cool. Basically, it's white people like. Okay,

502
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: so I say g I F because I refused to

503
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: get into the argument of gifts or jifts, So I

504
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: just d our jives. Okay, we'll go with jives. I

505
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: have not heard that one. It is from a PBS

506
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: idea channel now defunct YouTube series, but I used to

507
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: like it quite a bit. Okay, we'll jive for a life. Okay,

508
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: we'll do GIF. I just say g IF because I'm

509
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: just not going to do this. I thought it was

510
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: like an acronym. I was getting ready to learn really yeah. No,

511
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's yeah, gifts or gifts whatever your preferences. Um,

512
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: but basically how we use them to express ourselves on

513
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: the internet. Um, but how a lot of us, especially

514
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: white people, use mainly women of color to express ourselves,

515
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: like when we use g if our gifts, jifts, whatever. Um.

516
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: And so it is a term of like it's digital

517
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: black face, like it's She wasn't saying that you can't

518
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: use them, but like you need to be conscious, like

519
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: because like that's what's being put out there, and like

520
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: it basically it's another form of appropriation. Yeah. So um.

521
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: And in this case though, Kent also says that the

522
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: way the Ariana is using it, um, how some people

523
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: use it in like Instagram and stuff, is using blackness

524
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: as being exotic, right yeah, or that whole ethnicallygus, ethnically ambiguous, Yeah,

525
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: to bring in you know, other people and things like that. Yeah.

526
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, since I'm not black, I

527
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: also can't say anything on this, can't make any claims.

528
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I did think it was really

529
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: important that can you know, wasn't like dismissing dismissing certain ideas,

530
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: just saying that there wasn't context and there wasn't enough

531
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: behind it, and a lot of people were like me,

532
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: where we we're thankful for Kent's peace? Right? Yeah, it

533
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: was really well all written and well thought out and

534
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: kind of going off what you were saying a lot

535
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: of the things. She she kind of pointed out it

536
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: was more I'm not saying this is wrong, it just

537
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: wasn't well argued. It wasn't. It didn't have the stuff

538
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: to back it up. Um, which is good, very thoughtful.

539
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: She's a term parenting. The niche author did a lot

540
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: of parenting, and I was like, okay, yeah, and speaking

541
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: of the initial author, that about brings us to talk

542
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: about that. But first we're gonna stop for one more

543
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor. M hm,

544
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So could you tell

545
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: us a little bit about the author of this the

546
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: original piece? Yes, okay, So, as I said it before,

547
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: you cannot find the original article. Um. And as I

548
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: said before, the author's name Actually I didn't say this,

549
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: but the author's name was initially first removed from the

550
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: article and then the article itself came down. Okay, So

551
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: as the original think piece, like you know, it wasn't harmful,

552
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: but it was poorly poorly done, or you could say

553
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: it was harmful, you know. Um, there's another layer to it.

554
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: Here's the trajectory to the original think piece and why

555
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: the entire fiasco has ended the way it has, and

556
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: not just as far as rebuttle, but there's there's more

557
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: to it. And this is also why I didn't want

558
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: to use the author's name. Um. When the article was

559
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: first published, the editor in chief not only apologize amid

560
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: the backlash, but also removed the author's name due to

561
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: a number of death threats. Yeah, and and just because

562
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to agree with someone at all,

563
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: but death threats are definitely not the way to go.

564
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just think that makes things worse, you know,

565
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: just as a side note, and also just don't be

566
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: that mean. Yeah, Like I had to go on a

567
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: whole Pete Davidson things earlier and is related to this,

568
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: And I'm just a big proponent of trying to be

569
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: constructive criticism or generally nice or don't say anything at all.

570
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 1: Yeah you can just you know, there's there's lots going on.

571
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: You don't have to um. However, into his editor in

572
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: chief also said the publication was doing an internal investigation

573
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: to the author. Allegations had arisen amongst the controversy that

574
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: Into was not originally aware of, and neither was I

575
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: until this happened. As of December seventh last year, the

576
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: publication removed all content the author had written for the

577
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: site and severed ties with her. Turns out the transone

578
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: who wrote the initial I think Peace is an alleged rapist.

579
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: I was just shocked. I was seeing it in the comments,

580
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: and I thought, I mean that the death threats maybe

581
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: were that people didn't like what she initially said, but

582
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: maybe it was also that. But then when I read

583
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: what Into had to say, and then I read that

584
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: not only had they removed the author's name but all

585
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: of her stuff, and then they've completely severed tires, I

586
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: was like, oh my goodness. Now the author still has

587
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: they've written for like Or she's written for helf Post

588
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: and Glamour and and those sites. They still have her

589
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: work up, but it's just specifically this one. But I

590
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: have been following this one for a while now, both

591
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram, as I said, and reading other pieces she's

592
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: done for publications. It was I had a really really

593
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: hard time with this, not just checking myself like did

594
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: I completely miss it, but also finding out about the

595
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: author because it's like this is someone as someone who's

596
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: trying to educate myself, this is someone I looked up to,

597
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: like Okay, you know, they're being an advocacy. They know

598
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: what they're talking about, and why might I might not

599
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: always um agree with with certain points, Like I really

600
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: was learning a lot from them, and now to find

601
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: out they are an alleged rapist, I was like, I mean,

602
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: what do you do? What do you do with that?

603
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: To some extent, right, like I I was just and

604
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: and after this happened, they weren't on Instagram for a while,

605
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: their Twitter got shut down for a minute, Like I mean,

606
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: they just they got off social media for a second,

607
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: which I can understand. But I've you know, I've read

608
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: other states like so I've read the statements on the incident.

609
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: I've read her accuser statements, um her statements, and other

610
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: people have chimed in. I mean, it's if you want

611
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: to know, like it's out there, like the both the

612
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: accuser and in the alleged rapists, like they have put

613
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: their stuff out there on social media. So you can

614
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: find it. And I remember kind of going down this

615
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: hole and then being like I gotta, I gotta come back.

616
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: It was just a lot. But I don't think this

617
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: is necessarily place to break down what happened, but I

618
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: will say it did make me think a bit harder

619
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: about well, one, the idea of being too woke because

620
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: of the article itself, like just because this is someone

621
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: I followed and like trusted, and like you still have

622
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: to you still have to check in with yourself, like

623
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: is this does this sound realistic? Like can you can

624
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: you back it up to other things? Or is this

625
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: like kind of completely off the rails, which this was

626
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: her piece was a bit yeah. I mean it was

627
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: a total reach and it just did not fit in.

628
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: And that kind of goes into the idea of being

629
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: too woke, which is why I liked Kent's piece and

630
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: that that was a title because it's like someone who's

631
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: trying so hard when you're just completely missing the point.

632
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: I mean, we have to be conscious of that. But

633
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 1: also it really made me think about like Aaron, who

634
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: am I getting my information from? You know, and I know,

635
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: like this isn't the case with everyone, and like this

636
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 1: is like This is very sad that this is a thing. Um,

637
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: this sucks, but it's you know, it's not only like

638
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: we're all trying to find like figure out lanes, being

639
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: a better alley, like learning about what's going on, being

640
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: more socially aware. But at the same time, like some

641
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: of those people in in some of those places, like

642
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean those are the right people or

643
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: the places to look. And so like with like news media,

644
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: they you know, they teach you how to be media literate,

645
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: Like if you're gonna watch Fox, watch CNN, even though

646
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: CNN is technically not the CNN is more moderate. Um,

647
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: it's actually I think in miss and BC. Yeah yeah, um,

648
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: but I'm learning it's the same even with like pop

649
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: culture and like cultural culture media as well. Like you

650
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, you do need to kind of have a

651
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: few different outlets and check and do your research and know. Um,

652
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: I for one have decided I've had to set this

653
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: person aside. I can't. I don't think I can look

654
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: toward them anymore. I mean, I'm not saying the things

655
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 1: that they have said is wrong, but like just because

656
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: of allegation and so I was just that's a lot

657
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: and I know there are other places I can go

658
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: find my information, but it was really kind of a

659
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: big shock, Like I had had a hard time for

660
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 1: a couple of days about this overall, just the whole

661
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: everything that happened between the two articles and then everything

662
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: that happened about the author. Yeah, that was a difficult one. Yeah,

663
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: we've we've talked about it before on this show, but

664
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: it's it feels like a personal betrayal when someone you

665
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: looked up to right or wrong. It feels like a

666
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: personal betrayal. Um, when somebody looked up to turns out

667
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: to not be someone you should have been looking up to,

668
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: or even maybe it just makes you feel so uncertain

669
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: about the things that you learned from them or that

670
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: have become a part of you. And I and I

671
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: think this is a sad state affairs to be in.

672
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: But I am now I live in fear, like I

673
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: don't like anybody. I'm always ready for the other shoe

674
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: to drop. I'm like, oh god, oh my god, especially

675
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: in the media. But it is good to to check

676
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: in with yourself, like you said, and to make sure

677
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: you know where you're getting your information from and when

678
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: you're forming your opinions. It's good too to take to

679
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: take what you learned from other people and to make

680
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: sure that it's tracking with you and if it's not,

681
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: why is it? And then maybe you're wrong or maybe

682
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: the other person's wrong, or maybe no one's wrong. It's

683
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: just different experiences. Yeah, yeah, but it definitely was. It

684
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: was a big check for me. So it just it

685
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: got me to thinking about all of these things. So

686
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: I was just like, okay, so and then I went

687
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: down the rest of the Ariana Grande hole with all

688
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: the other time Grande making us think, making as think, well,

689
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: I think this has been so I feel like you

690
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: could teach a class on Ariana Grande, which is fantastic.

691
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: We dont have like a sminty like this course, Like hey, George,

692
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: just stay, hey, you wanna bring me in for lessone?

693
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: I got this? Hey, I mean maybe they should. Thanks

694
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: so much for joining us, Veranda. Where can people find you?

695
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: So you can find me on Twitter? I met Knox

696
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: kN o X Underscore Hawkins and then you can also

697
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at mur made. It's probably the

698
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: most clever thing I've ever done in my life. But

699
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: it's m I R R R underscore m A d Yeah,

700
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: very clever. And also I'm sure we'll be hearing from

701
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: you any other are on a Grande news um and

702
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: other things. I won't put you in a box. And

703
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: in the meantime, listeners that you can always email us.

704
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

705
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast

706
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: and on Instagram at stuff mom Never told You. Thanks

707
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: as always to our producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to

708
00:38:52,360 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: you for listening. S