1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. This week we talked about 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: Lillian exem Clement Stafford, who I find so interesting and 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: so cool in so many ways, except for the United 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: Daughters of the Confederacy and the eugenics part. Not a 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: fan of either of those. Yeah, So to my knowledge, 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: there has been no like biography of her written, which 10 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: means that a lot of the research, like the initial 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: research for the episode included a lot of things which, 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: as we said in the episode, had come from local 13 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: newspaper and magazine article goals from western North Carolina specifically, 14 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: or from the state of North Carolina, not things that 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: have source lists or footnotes or anything like that. So 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: some of the things that they would reference, I was like, 17 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: where are you getting this? Where did this traffic light 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: thing come from? Like I could not find anything in 19 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: either of the legislative session records from like the session 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: that she was in in January through March and then 21 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: the extra session that started in December. Like I just 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: couldn't find anything about traffic signals in any of that 23 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,559 Speaker 1: at all. Similarly, like where are you getting this about 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: her introducing eugenics legislation? 25 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: Like I did not. 26 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: Read line by line all eight or nine hundred total 27 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: pages of these documents, right, I was keyword searching for 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: all of the relevant words that could have been used 29 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: in this kind of legislation and just finding nothing. So 30 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,639 Speaker 1: it's like, I don't I don't know where that came from. 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: But also there were just so many mistakes in so 32 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: many of these articles. There was the birth year confusion, 33 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: which is absolutely understandable. It told like, when there are 34 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: that many different years in the written records of a person, 35 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: and your job is to write a brief newspaper feature 36 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: on somebody, you're probably it's like, it's less likely that 37 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: you're going to stumble onto the fact that there's none 38 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: of these ages line up right. The things about the 39 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: birth order totally makes sense that like there would be 40 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: questions and misinformation based on the weird birth years. But 41 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: like the idea, there are a lot of articles that 42 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: say that an all male electorate voted for her in 43 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: the general election, and that's just an easy one to 44 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: see is not the case, but it is in so 45 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: many places. One of the articles that I read about 46 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: her said that she had died of pneumonia during the 47 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: Spanish flu. Spanish flu we've done episodes about before that 48 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: happened from nineteen eighteen to nineteen nineteen. Sort of trailed 49 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: off after that, definitely not having something we call the 50 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: Spanish flu in nineteen twenty five, and I mean, she no, Tracy, 51 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: it was a weird Dorman strain, Like she's reported as 52 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: having died of pneumonia that may have been flu related, 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: but like the Spanish flu was not what was happening 54 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: right at that point. So I just, I just I 55 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: got a little frustrated. 56 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: With that. 57 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: And then when I realized that some of those things 58 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: go all the way back to her obituaries, I was like, 59 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: she she died, like she died five years after the 60 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: nineteenth Amendment was dratified, Like that's not a big amount 61 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: of time to have passed. So anyway, I got frustrated 62 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: about all of that. My little note of what to 63 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: talk about in behind the scenes has just sort of 64 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: a keyboard smash in my expression of my frustration about 65 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: this something that I had put in here in the 66 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: episode that I wound up taking out because it just 67 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: it felt like in aside that was kind of interrupting. 68 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: The narrative. Is that on March. 69 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: Twenty second, nineteen twenty one, so after the main legislative 70 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: session was over, fellow Representative BG Crisp of Manio wrote 71 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: her a letter. And I found this letter. I was like, 72 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: this person I think would be a reply guy today. 73 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: So BG Crisp had been very staunchly and vocally against 74 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: the ratification of the nineteenth Amendment, and he. 75 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: Wrote her this let there's a quote from it. Quote. 76 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: I merely wish to express in writing the high admiration 77 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: that I, with all other fellow members of the General 78 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: Assembly of nineteen twenty one have for you, as a 79 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: most intelligent and worthy representative who has made lasting impression 80 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: upon all who observed you in that capacity. Your course 81 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: was such as to challenge the highest admiration of all 82 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: who observed it, and I happen to know some who, 83 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: like myself were bitterly opposed to the ratification of the 84 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: nineteenth Amendment, were most interested observers. It's like he wanted 85 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: to basically make sure that she knew that it wasn't 86 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: that he had been opposed to women having the right 87 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: to vote, but that he thought that it should have 88 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: been left up to the states and not a constitutional amendment. 89 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: This was just kind of a weird letter. I was like, 90 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: I feel like you felt the need to write to 91 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: her and justify yourself. 92 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. The legislation, the legislative session was over. Yeah. 93 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: Also, in just a throwback to a recent episode, as 94 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: I was just trying to confirm things about her life 95 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: that I had not been able to really track down, 96 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: I was looking at the newspaper reporting of her time 97 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: in the legislature. One day, the giant front page headline 98 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: was about investigation into pelagra. Just the whole title, the 99 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: whole entire front page, whole headline space, covering the entire 100 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: width of it. I have a question. Tell me what 101 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: your question is. Why were they calling her brother, Clement. 102 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: I think they were just calling her brother because they 103 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: called each other brother, and so she was now part 104 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: of their governing body, and so they also called her brother. 105 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's like on Star Trek when 106 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: they call all the women captain sir. Oh. 107 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, But I don't know. 108 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: It just struck me as the oddest thing, And I 109 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: don't know why I kept getting really I kept thinking 110 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: about it while we were talking, and I'm like, why 111 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: was that a good thing? 112 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: I didn't. 113 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, in like, that's sort of my conclusion of 114 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: what was happening, sort of like the fact that they 115 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: had never really thought about what would happen if somebody 116 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: changed their last name, right, because they'd never had to 117 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: think about it. Yeah, it had always only been men 118 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: before that, and so they had never really had to 119 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: think about what they would need to call a fellow 120 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: legislator or a fellow attorney if that attorney or legislator 121 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: was not a man, right. I mean, I actually feel 122 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: like that too, is one of those things that persists 123 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: a little bit. 124 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: Right. 125 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: There are women that I know in careers where they're like, well, 126 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: I got married and I took my husband's name socially, 127 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: but professionally I'm still this, oh yeah. And I don't 128 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: know if that's because it's a complicated thing there's no 129 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: one there, but yeah, I don't know how much of 130 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: that is weighted by, you know, the fact that it 131 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: would just be harder to rebuild the recognition that they've 132 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: achieved in their field, or if some of it is 133 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: like I don't want to confuse anybody, and I mean 134 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people now don't even do the name change, 135 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: which is also perfectly fine. Ye you did not change 136 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: your name, No I did. I had one of the 137 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: most boring common names on Earth. I was ready to like, 138 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: my name is my maiden name was so common that 139 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: when I told people it, they said, you are a liar, 140 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: and I would have to whip out my ID and 141 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: be like, nope, that's really my name. Well, there were 142 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: multiple Tracy Wilson's at my high school, and so when 143 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: somebody was called to come to the office, they would 144 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: have to put a middle initial in there. And the 145 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: fact that Tracy Wilson is such a common name as 146 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: why I have always used my middle initial professionally. And 147 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: then I got married at the age of four, at 148 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: which point I had, you know, two decades of professional 149 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: working experience under the last name Wilson, and so that 150 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: just seemed like a lot of effort, right, so try 151 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: to change stuff around. Now I'm thankful, like it. It's 152 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: a lot of work to change your name. And now 153 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: it's like wow, now, since people are introducing legislation requiring 154 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: names to match birth certificates, the fact that my name 155 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: still does is like an extra convenience to me. 156 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: I'll just vanish into the night. 157 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: Legislation requiring your ID to match your birth certificate in 158 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: order to vote is bad. I will just put out 159 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: my feeling on that. Yeah, it is bad for a 160 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: lot of people. Yeah, if you're gonna write me an 161 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: email saying but there'll be a form to fill out, 162 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: I don't care. Overwhelmingly, men won't have to fill out 163 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: that for right. Anyway, I'm hoping to visit Ashville in 164 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: the near future. I will almost certainly drive by that 165 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: historical marker at some point. 166 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: I am sure I have driven before it. 167 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: Now. I have been to Ashville since when it was 168 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: put up, so I don't think I ever noticed it 169 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: prior to learning about this, learning that she existed from 170 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: a different podcast. I one of her out her suits 171 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: is on display at one of the museums there. Oh nice, 172 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: trying to remember which one. It's quite a smart suit, 173 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: I quite like. 174 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 175 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, she looks lovely in every picture of her that 176 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: I've seen. She's very smartly dressed and very very like 177 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: neatly styled hair. So yeah, I wish there were a 178 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: full length biography of her that would answer some questions 179 00:10:59,120 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: that I have. 180 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: Some of the things that I'm like, I don't know. 181 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: It's totally possible that there is documentation of it somewhere 182 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: that's you know, not digitized, not generally available to the public, 183 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: or that it is, and I just didn't find that 184 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: in all of my research. I this morning, before we 185 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: came in here to record, I did a second pass 186 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: just to like try again to see Number one, is 187 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: there anything I can find about her family in relation 188 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: to the nineteen sixteen flood. Number two, is there anything 189 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: I can find about her or her family in relation 190 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: to the Spanish flu because she was actually alive when 191 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: that happened. And my second past, first thing this morning 192 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: found nothing about either of them. So we talked at 193 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: the top of the episode about Gertrude Chandler Warner. Huh 194 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: that you didn't read the box card stare They don't 195 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: think I did. So I had this experience where I 196 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: picked them up when I was still living in the 197 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest and just mainline them. I was obsessed with 198 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: them and I had found them in my school library. 199 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: And then when I was nine, we moved to the 200 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: Gulf Coast, and I remember thinking like, Okay, I will 201 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: look for them in the library there, and they didn't 202 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: know what I was talking about. None of those kids 203 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: had ever heard of it. It sounded like some weird, 204 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: far off thing that like I had made up and 205 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: now and then when you were like, I never read them, 206 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, was this not popular in the South. 207 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: I don't know. 208 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: It might have just been me if I like, I 209 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: started reading pretty early and I read a lot, Like 210 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: I was one of those kids that would get in 211 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: trouble reading oh same in class instead of doing or 212 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: reading ahead when we were reading aloud. 213 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 2: Oh I got yelled at. Yeah. I had a lot 214 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: of problems with that. 215 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: But I think because I had started reading so early, 216 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: I a lot of times would read books that I 217 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: felt like were more grown up. 218 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 219 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: I could be really resistant to books that I felt like, 220 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna be babyish. And I think I might have 221 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: had that impression about the box Car Children. Well, I 222 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: started reading them when I was seven. Yeah, like I die, 223 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: I'm not like, I've definitely heard of these books, right, 224 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: I know what they are, but I don't think I 225 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: ever read any of them. Yeah, I'm tickled because I 226 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: definitely had a mix of I did the fashion thing 227 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: of mixture high and low to get personal style. Because, 228 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: since we've talked about before, I read Druma Capponi's in 229 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: Cold Blood when I was way too young to be reading. 230 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 231 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I tried to read like a totally like not 232 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: a not an adaptation for younger readers, but the full 233 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: on book Jane Eyre when I was in like fifth grade. 234 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: And then when I read Jane Eyre again in college, 235 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: I was like. 236 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: Wow, sure missed a lot of this. Sure didn't really 237 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: realize what was going on in this book. Yeah. 238 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: My book like that was Neuromancer because I found it 239 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: when I was twelve. Yeah, and I read it and 240 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. But then when I went back 241 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: and read it as an adult, I was like, what 242 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: was I doing with this book in my hand? I 243 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: have so many things it just tickles me. I will 244 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: say this. I want to be very careful because I 245 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: don't like to criticize other people's creative work. Right. I 246 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: listened to audiobooks all the time. 247 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: I love them. 248 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: My husband doesn't love them because he doesn't like hearing 249 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: other people read things because it's not usually the way 250 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: he would read it if he were reading aloud, and 251 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: he finds that jarring totally fine, But because I knew, 252 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: I wasn't. I was trying to multitask a bunch of things, 253 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: and I was like, I'll listen to the audiobook version 254 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: of the first book, by which I mean the nineteen 255 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: forty two version to catch up. Because it's only a 256 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: couple hours long. I can do it while I'm running 257 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: around the house doing you know, prep work, taking care 258 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: of animals, et cetera. And the narrator who does the 259 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: one that I read, does the voices of the children. 260 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: I did not enjoy that at all. Yeah, I kind 261 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: of got used to it, but it was a little rough. 262 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: It was a little rough. 263 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: But I will say there are in many cases if 264 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: you experience something like this, dear listener. In some cases, 265 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: particularly very popular books like this or Dracula, which I 266 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: have mentioned listening to a lot of lately, there are 267 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: often multiple versions of audiobooks, so you can see if 268 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: you have another option that doesn't that doesn't quite great 269 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: on you. 270 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 2: I did not do that. I was like, I already 271 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: have it in the thing, I'm just gonna gun it. 272 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: Most of my audiobook listening is like on road trips, 273 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: on some kind of travel where I'm going to be 274 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: sitting in a place wanting a way to like occupy 275 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: my mind. Yeah, because or you know, if there was 276 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: something I was really into, I would listen while walking 277 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: around or doing stuff around the house. But that's also 278 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: when I listened to the podcasts that I listened to. 279 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: So audiobooks are just not as big of a thing 280 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: for me. Time out of them, more likely going to 281 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: like read a book. No, I'll go right to sleep, 282 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: I think, because we read so much for this job. 283 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: That's true too, Yeah, that I'm like reading for leisure 284 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: doesn't feel quite the same as it used to you 285 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: to me, and my brain just goes, no, thank you, 286 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: I don't why why don't we stare in the middle 287 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: distance for a minute. There are some very cute stories 288 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: of Gertrude Chandler Warner and her siblings growing up, and 289 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: like I said, their youth seems almost idyllic. But one 290 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: of the things that I thought was very cute and 291 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: really quite ingenious is that they were trying to figure 292 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: out distances from their house to other places in town, 293 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: and they measured the circumference of the wagon wheels on 294 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: their family's wagon and then they tied a rag to 295 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: one of the spokes of it, and they would count 296 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: how many rotations it made from their house to their destination, 297 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: and then they would multiply that by the circumference of 298 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: the wagon wheel and be like, that is two point 299 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: six miles away from our house. That's amazing one point 300 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is the most ingenious thing. 301 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: I've ever heard heard. 302 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: For like three little kids to come up with this, 303 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how little they were at the time, 304 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: but I just thought that was very, very charming. Yeah, 305 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: here's a thing that was wild to me. The way 306 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: she wrote her books. And when I read it at first, 307 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: I was like, are you saying this is how she 308 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: did it when she was a kid? Nope, pretty much 309 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: the whole time, until presumably her eyesight started to fail. 310 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: She had a typewriter, but she didn't love it, and 311 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: she usually did four passes on any of her books, 312 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: like to do her own editing and get the manuscript 313 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: to a point she liked. But her first pass she 314 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: would get a notebook and write in it with a pencil, 315 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: and she would write only on the right hand facing pages, 316 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: and when she got to the end of the notebook. 317 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: She would flip it over and then continue on what 318 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: was then the empty right hand facing pages. 319 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 2: The other way. That's wild. That was exactly what I said. 320 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: And also it made my hand crampy because that's a 321 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: lot of handwriting. I know people used to handwrite that much. Yeah, 322 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: but O hand crampy. 323 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 2: We've talked about. 324 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: How I find writing with a pen laborious, and I 325 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: mean I don't. That's actually how I prefer to keep 326 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: a lot of my lists and stuff. There's just something 327 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: about the tactile nature of it that I really love. 328 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: M m. But I can't. 329 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: Imagine writing a paragraph let alone, like I'm talking bullet lists. 330 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: I can't like a manuscript sounds really really intense and unfun. 331 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: But that idea of like half a notebook one way, 332 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: half the other way. 333 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: M hmm. 334 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's the way that like suspicious people write manifestos. 335 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: What are you doing, Gertrude, Gertrude, what is going on? 336 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: But it worked for her apparently, Okay, I just thought 337 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: that was nutty. She also had this one piece of 338 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: advice that I stumbled across for writers that I really 339 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: liked because she recognized that, you know, because she did 340 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: her own editing a lot before she ever handed off 341 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: a book. She too had the same thing that all 342 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: of us have when we write, which is like, you 343 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: look at something you wrote and you're like, dear credo, 344 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm terrible at this. But her thing was don't ever 345 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: throw anything away because you might want it later. And 346 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's actually a really good policy. It's hard. 347 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: You sometimes want to destroy the evidence of mediocrity, but 348 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: she's like, don't do it, don't do it. One thing 349 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: we didn't talk about that will come up a little 350 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: on our upcoming episode about Children's Morality Code was that, 351 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: And I will tell you why we didn't talk about 352 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: it was the sort of inherent Christian morality of a 353 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 1: lot of her work, because she isn't heavy handed about it. 354 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: There are not mentions of any kind of religion or 355 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: you know, God or anything. But she did publish a 356 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: book that I couldn't find much information about other than 357 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: just a mention in one of those pretty simple biographies 358 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: I read, which is that she published a book in 359 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,719 Speaker 1: collaboration with a missionary named Leyla Anderson. And this person 360 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: apparently had a parakeet named Peter Piper that traveled the 361 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: world with her on these missionary trips and talked and 362 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: they wrote a book about the bird. I really would 363 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: like to find that book, like a good copy of that, 364 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: but I have a feeling it was a very small 365 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: run and they're probably in antique shops I haven't uncovered yet. 366 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, Peter Piper the parakeet. Yeah, writing manifestos anyway, 367 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: I will say this, this is a thing. I didn't 368 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: do this on purpose, but I have recognized that I am, 369 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: in our troubled times revisiting a lot of the things 370 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: that gave me joy as a kid, and it's very comforting. 371 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: So I do encourage people if you had a book 372 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: that you loved as a child, or a game that 373 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: you loved, just anything that you associate with fun times 374 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: in childhood and delight. It's very soothing to go back 375 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: and readincare own it for the most part. Obviously you're 376 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: going to find things and go yo, that's racist or 377 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: oh sure this is a problem, but overall pretty delightful. 378 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. 379 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: Revisiting the Box Car Children honestly made me so happy. 380 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: I had quite forgotten about their dog Watch and his 381 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: whole little sub story, yeah, which is really cute, just 382 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: that they find this poor dog wandering in the woods 383 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: with a big thorn in its paw, and Jess carefully 384 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: takes the thorn out, and the dog becomes like attached 385 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: to her at the hip going forward and takes care 386 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: of the children and warns them when there's trouble, and 387 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: it's just very I forgot about Watch the Dog anyway. 388 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: I love the Box Card Children. I have not read 389 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: any of the modern versions. Some of them have been rewritten. 390 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: They're essentially the same story she wrote, but they're rewritten 391 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: with modern scenarios, modern characters, etc. And I haven't revisited 392 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: any of those, so I cannot speak to their value 393 00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: or quality. 394 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 2: Okay, but I love. 395 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: The originals, even though we don't know why Grandpa hated 396 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:12,479 Speaker 1: that Mom. I kept thinking about. This is kind of 397 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: not entirely related, but like Grave of the Fireflies, which 398 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: is a very incredibly sad film, but most Americans seeing 399 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: this film interpret it as an anti war film because 400 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: of the horrific things that the children go through in it, 401 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: while the filmmakers explicitly said that no, it's about how 402 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: children should behave themselves and respect their elders because they 403 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: were in the care of an ant and they leave 404 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: to try to make their way on their own. And 405 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: that's what I kept thinking about with these children having 406 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: a grandfather who was an adult there for them, but 407 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: instead they went to live in a box car totally 408 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: different setup, not at all like the same tone in 409 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: any way, But I kept thinking about that. Yeah, it's 410 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: a yeah, and he's like the richest man in town. 411 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: Everyone knows who he is, which is very funny. So 412 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: like the kids do a lot of like hiding of 413 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: their names, right, there's an event where they're actually like 414 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: with Henry's with a lot of townspeople, and he lies. 415 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: He only uses his first and middle name and doesn't 416 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: say his last name because he knows people are looking 417 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: for him. But he doesn't recognize his grandfather because they 418 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: never really knew him. So it's a it's it's again, 419 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 1: why did he not like their mom? With that? Listen, 420 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: if you have time off coming up in the next 421 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: couple days, I hope you get to revisit something that 422 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: brings you joy, whether it's from your childhood or not. 423 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: Just find the stuff that makes you happy or offers 424 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: you an escape, because the real world is going to 425 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: be there when you go back to it, and it 426 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: is good to take care of yourself with joy. There's 427 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: no shame in that game. I also hope that everyone 428 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: you encounter is kind to you. If you have to work, 429 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: that goes doubly so I hope nobody's a jerk to 430 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: you while you are just trying to make a living. 431 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: I hope everybody treats each other as kindly as they 432 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: possibly can. Again, it's a high tension life we were 433 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: living right now. But we will be right back here 434 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: tomorrow with a classic episode, and then on Monday we 435 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: will bring you something brand new. Stuff you missed in 436 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 437 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 438 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.